When the Spin-Off is Better Than Amazing

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024

Комментарии • 102

  • @Smartieboi
    @Smartieboi 4 месяца назад +51

    Please never stop making these this is legit a fantastic comic book retrospective

  • @OkMakuTree
    @OkMakuTree 4 месяца назад +74

    If memory serves Jackal didn't have any powers when he first debuted. He was just a middle aged college professor who got jacked and did a bunch of gymnastics training. His one physical victory over Spiderman in the cloning lab was solely because Peter was still woozy from being drugged and fell prey to "The Jackal and his shiny claws!" In later appearances Warren does have super powers because he splices his DNA with jackal DNA (lol) and from then on sometimes he's a green furry man, sometimes he's still human looking. It's pretty much a Doombot/LMD situation now where any time a Jackal claims to be the "real" Miles Warren you just have to roll your eyes and wonder when the writers will get bored enough to bring him back.

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад +1

      Do you think that Warren should have stayed dead? Didn’t they kind of ruin the first Carrion story?

    • @davidbjacobs3598
      @davidbjacobs3598 3 месяца назад +1

      To add to this, IIRC, Carrion's powers (pre-retcon) came from staying in the aging pod too long. In a case of comics both understanding science and also making up weird nonsense to explain it, Jackal's clones would be treated in pods that they aged them up appropriately and also implanted the memories they needed to be indistinguishable from the original (since IRL, a clone would emerge as an embryo that is an entirely new being with the same DNA). But since Warren died, he never opened the pod that Carrion was in (he didn't schedule that back-up very well). So Carrion continued to age until he died in the pod, before he'd ever been born. Then eventually, some rando college kid opened it up, and Carrion emerged.
      In other words... his powers are actually supernatural in nature. He's part-zombie, part-demon, part-ghoul.

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 3 месяца назад

      Didn’t they kind of screw up Carrion?

    • @m.e.4946
      @m.e.4946 3 месяца назад +3

      Yeah, that last comment about how many twists and false turns are associated with the Jackal is spot on. You have the Carrion story (which is good), Gerry Conway’s retconning of the original Clone Saga in an issue of his Spectacular Spider-Man (issue #149, mirroring Amazing Spider-Man #149) and Spectacular Spider-Man Annual #9 (with the High Evolutionary apparently having worked with him, which is absurd), and then the second Clone Saga has the first “That wasn’t the real Miles Warren! I AM!”, followed by an unceremonious death. Writers just started copying and pasting this as an explanation for the Jackal being in their stories (Spider-Island, Clone Conspiracy, etc.). It is a somewhat tired trope at this point, and it dilutes a twist that already undid the ending of the first Clone Saga.

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 3 месяца назад +3

      @@m.e.4946 - And then Ben Reilly became The Jackal. Dan Slott even said that Ben was The Jackal during that whole Spider-Island crossover . Which doesn't make ANY sense, because it was CLEARLY Miles who was The Jackal in that story! And the Miles from the Second Clone Saga was not a clone, he actually gave himself superpowers. So how did Ben get the real Miles Warren? The Jackal is just damaged as a character at this point (Which is a shame because he USED to be one of my favorite villians!).

  • @TheMorlun
    @TheMorlun 4 месяца назад +43

    Frank Miller is actually a giant Spider-Man fan. You can actually see it in his art in Spectacular: it's very classic Spidey, with very little Miller in it. He barely knew Daredevil, but this and Marvel Team up annual made Frank change his mind and develop DD in new ways.

    • @violentdestroyer7963
      @violentdestroyer7963 4 месяца назад +8

      Yes, Frank Miller’s work on Spectacular Spider Man was a precursor to his work on daredevil and laid the seeds for what he’d eventually do with the character. Really cool to see !!!

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад +4

      He also used Doctor Octopus in his early Daredevil stories that he drew and co-wrote z

  • @KC-fi6rk
    @KC-fi6rk 3 месяца назад +11

    JRJR use to live near by when I was growing up. I had him sign his first issue of iron man that he did around the same time of this spidey. He was so funny laughing at himself. He would say “I can’t believe they paid me”.

  • @CarvedDaWarped
    @CarvedDaWarped 4 месяца назад +14

    Spectacular, Spec-tac-u-lar Spider-Man... It's catchy.

    • @Private-Potato
      @Private-Potato 4 месяца назад +3

      I hear this song in my head so clearly.

  • @MetalFaceKillah
    @MetalFaceKillah 4 месяца назад +13

    SSM is the best Spider-title, fight me.
    When I read all of Spidey volume 1 (1962-1998) in chronological order, i completely fell in love with SSM!!
    Most of my backissues are SSM and WoSM. I have SSM 134-203 solid. I also have all the Gerry Conway Webs.
    Conway is one of the best Spidey writers ever, if you want more of his work read SSM and Web from 1988-1991. Conway writes both the titles simultaneously which makes for one large narrative.
    Bill Mantlo is super underrated for his Spider-Man work. Another one of my favorite Spidey writers

    • @Bubzee11_Editz
      @Bubzee11_Editz 4 месяца назад

      SSM was a very good side series, but WOSM was my favorite,

    • @Bubzee11_Editz
      @Bubzee11_Editz 4 месяца назад

      But the 90s were so chaotic, 5 titles at once, it made me forget that in each of those stories, it was the exact same Peter, get what I mean? But yeah, ssm was very good, I liked it better after it changed its title from ppssm to ssm, the stories got better with tombstones debut, the child within, and much more, but WOSM is way underrated, it had the name of the rose, cult of love, missing in action, a lot of infamous stories

    • @sboinkthelegday3892
      @sboinkthelegday3892 4 месяца назад

      Amazing that people have the heart to call a series "spin-off" for beign the same thing but utilizing the market opportunity to have more of it.
      Then again you're not the most literate lot, if a company can jsut print out the word "amazing" on the covers and suddenly this makes the fairytale somehow more real for you.
      So much that IT EXACTLY is why you need to spend your days crying how "badly cahracterized" this cartoon dude is sometimes, and you have trouble hauling ALL your money to one IP owner because their stories are extra super duber real and not just fanfic that was bought off with money.

    • @Bubzee11_Editz
      @Bubzee11_Editz 4 месяца назад

      @@sboinkthelegday3892 not sure if ur comment is directed to me, but I just wanted to clarifify im a 9th grader and I’ve read all of Spider-Mans comics in my free time, kinda like a hobby, and my grades are pretty good aswell. I dont really spend money on comics because my library has so many tpbs in order, but once in a while, for venom war issues I go to my local shop and buy some of my fav issues along with the ones i came there for. So about your comment, about the titles, i agree, it really just is another market scheme, but that doesn’t mean e cant enjoy right? I mean in not the type to complain that it’s not realistic enough because, i mean, we literally have a super hero who got spider powers albeit an irridiated spider bite, so that should atleast warn people what their getting into. But the side series, i mean they had really good stories, some of the time for WOSM (SSM had so much filler after the 100’s started) it had filler, but the stories were so good imo, the name of the rose was one of my all time favourites. But yeah I can see your point, I’m not trying to disrespect you, just inputting my opinion, i think people should just enjoy the stories without overthinking it

  • @razrentals8897
    @razrentals8897 4 месяца назад +8

    Sal Buscema’s Spectacular Spiderman is my Spiderman! Conway did such an amazing job with this series. The Tombstone/Robbie Robertson storyline is such a great ongoing story. I love the issue where Spiderman gets attacked when he visits Robbie in prison.

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад

      One of the few good things about the Wells run is his take on Tombstone. He’s making Tombstone into a major Spidey villain again .

  • @raoul9016
    @raoul9016 4 месяца назад +38

    Thank you for bringing classic Spider-Man back to the light. People nowadays have forgotten who Peter Parker really is and how believable he behaves and acts in the comics. Present Spider-Man is a totally joke and the multiple spider people and the multiverse have ruined the Spider-Man Mythos to oblivion imo.

    • @Bubzee11_Editz
      @Bubzee11_Editz 4 месяца назад +1

      ThatS exactly why I decided to read all of his comics more than a year ago

    • @davidakin3840
      @davidakin3840 4 месяца назад +3

      i 100% agree classic spiderman is the only spiderman I recognize in recent times.

    • @reymafias6404
      @reymafias6404 3 месяца назад +3

      It's because of those modern stories that people are getting interested in the classics in the first place, you shouldn't bash what's new just for the sake of being a boomer.

    • @Bubzee11_Editz
      @Bubzee11_Editz 3 месяца назад

      @@reymafias6404 ehh, I mean I did start reading all the Spider-Man comics when I watched atsv, I wanted to read all of 616 peters canon events in the comics, in order, I read all of the comics, all of the series. But the thing is, I heard that the comic accurate Iron spider was coming to fortnite and I was so shocked when all of the comments said that the suit was a rip off and it wasn’t real, no odd knew it was from the comics except me

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 3 месяца назад

      @@davidakin3840 - What about Ultimate?

  • @SpideyRules-pq6be
    @SpideyRules-pq6be 4 месяца назад +14

    Something I've noticed is that while Debra Whitman is this shy and polite woman in the comics, her personality in the '90s cartoon is more in line with Marcy Kane. It makes me wonder if the show intentionally merged those two characters together or if it's just a coincidence.

    • @MegaSpideyman
      @MegaSpideyman Месяц назад

      Who's Marcy Kane?

    • @SpideyRules-pq6be
      @SpideyRules-pq6be Месяц назад +1

      @@MegaSpideyman She's one of the teaching assistants that Peter is working with. You see her here: 26:12

    • @MegaSpideyman
      @MegaSpideyman Месяц назад

      @SpideyRules-pq6be Ah, I see. Thank you very much.

  • @fanb1536
    @fanb1536 3 месяца назад +1

    Doug Moench's tenure on the original Moon Knight comic was great fun. I recommend the two minis he wrote in '98 and '99, too, those are great lil stories that sorta feel like refined versions of what his original series was going for. It's very much like Batman, but leaning more into the esoteric and conspiratorial sorta angle, it's really fun haha. But really, I was surprised at the maturity of some of the original run's stories, and Moench always did a fantastic job at getting that moody noir atmosphere; he really made it work while still being ostensibly the [Marvel] New York.
    Personally I'm fine with the Batman similarities and think that's intrinsic to his appeal; people didn't really start going "nuh-uh he's not a ripoff!" until the 2006 Huston run, which was very dark and edgy and depressing for the sake of being depressing; I'm not really a fan and feel it disrespected much of what made the original series (characters are assholes to eachother just because, Frenchie was done so dirty...). It really stands in stark contrast to the 2016 run by Lemire, which was an actually mature and introspective story, that still actively tried to give love to the classic run. That comic gets a lot of love for very deserving reasons.

  • @TheMorlun
    @TheMorlun 4 месяца назад +15

    Also, according to Tony Isabella, Carrion was originally supposed to be a degenerating Spider-Man Clone. And his suit was supposed to be Green Goblin's. I'm kinda iffy on clone, but you can totally see the suit. Especially the gloves.

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад +1

      You mean Ben Reilly?

    • @TheMorlun
      @TheMorlun 4 месяца назад +1

      @@matthewschwartz6607 Yes, although he was obviously not called that yet.

    • @robertcoggeshall3071
      @robertcoggeshall3071 3 месяца назад +1

      Carrion was drawn that way to make you think it was goblin.

  • @matthewschwartz6607
    @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад +2

    Really good stuff here. The Mantlo, David and Dematties runs that followed are some of the best Spider-Man stories and runs. The Dematties run in particular is super underrated. Conway’s second run was good, too .

  • @goldarrowcomics1454
    @goldarrowcomics1454 4 месяца назад +2

    We LOVE those first few years of PPTSSM...! Carrion, the Iguana, the Spider-Lizard, Swarm (we will never disavow the pure love we feel for this character!) the White Tiger, Marcy Kane and the new "college crew" of friends - all of these, for us, epitomize what was best and most fun about late 70's Spidey. Bill Mantlo remains one of the great unsung heroes of the medium.

  • @MetalFaceKillah
    @MetalFaceKillah 4 месяца назад +5

    Sal Buscema ends up penciling about 150 of the 263 issues of Spectacular. If you want to see which issues artists worked on, look on the marvel wikia, not Wikipedia. Also also SSM is the first time Miller draws Daredevil.
    Also "Big M" aka Masked Marauder is a Stan Lee Daredevil villain. He first appeared in Daredevil 16, penciled by JRSR, his first time drawing Spider-Man before he was the main penciler on Amazing in '66.

  • @popman1997
    @popman1997 4 месяца назад +4

    It's funny that my only real exposure to the Spectacular Spider-Man issues (at least in a substantial sense) are the Frank Millar issues since I decided to read through all the Miller Daredevil stuff out of the blue.
    And then there's Carrion. He always stuck with me ever since I first saw him in one of those Spider-Man encyclopedias. He's got that aura to him.

  • @PTPspdy29
    @PTPspdy29 4 месяца назад +4

    The Amazing Spider-Man Annual 18 has a good Scorpion.

  • @daikaijutony3534
    @daikaijutony3534 3 месяца назад

    As a big Spectacular fanboy, you just earned yourself a sub.

  • @Bubzee11_Editz
    @Bubzee11_Editz 4 месяца назад +2

    As someone who has read all of Spider-Mans comics, im glad someone has the knowledge like me, my fav side series was web of Spider-Man but Spectacular was still very good because it had carrion

  • @AceLM92
    @AceLM92 4 месяца назад +2

    Great assessment. I was feeling what you described when Spectacular Spider-Man became more of a breeze to read compared to the Amazing title

    • @mochii813
      @mochii813 3 месяца назад

      Spectacular is such a fun ride I really like the water issues too

  • @alexandreturcotte6411
    @alexandreturcotte6411 Месяц назад

    My main exposure to White Tiger was the more recent barrer of the title via the Ultimate Spiderman cartoon of the mid 2010s. I think she's the daughter of the one you spoke in the video, or maybe the daughter of another White Tiger, idk (It's been a good while and I'm not in the mood to go check up if it was just these two or if there was more in the lineage rn. Feel free to correct me in the replies). Cool to see the early one, even if he seems quite lackluster.
    Getting backdoor pilot vibes from Razorback might be the most accurate thing I ever heard about the character.
    Disco Hustler and Swarm (""Third Reign"" bee ghost) mentionned!

  • @m.e.4946
    @m.e.4946 4 месяца назад

    Nice video! I’m glad that your dive into the secondary title was a positive experience, and if you choose to continue reading this title (or any of the other spin-off titles), I hope that you continue to enjoy them. I can’t wait for your next review. I completely get the sense of curiosity and intrigue in encountering famous writers and artists before their most famous works. I had the same experience with Chris Claremont and John Byrne on Iron Fist and Marvel Team-Up (having not read their X-Men yet) and Roger Stern’s Dr. Strange (although that was running at the same time as his Avengers and Spider-Man runs). The only caveat regarding not touching spin-off titles is that the titles become more and more interconnected during this period, with continuous footnotes and references, and eventually stories begin overlapping between titles (the most famous examples being the likes of Maximum Carnage and the second Clone Saga).

  • @violentdestroyer7963
    @violentdestroyer7963 4 месяца назад

    These videos are awesome! Keep up the good work. I would love to do my own retrospectives one day. You’re an amazing inspiration !!!

  • @davidbjacobs3598
    @davidbjacobs3598 3 месяца назад +1

    I love this so much. Some quick notes:
    - Man-Beast is a major Adam Warlock villain. He was created by the High Evolutionary (from Guardians Vol. 3) and is basically a Satan allegory in the Counter-Earth Saga. He's cool. I like him.
    - I think you're mispronouncing Sha-Shan. Going off the Spectacular cartoon, the emphasis is on the second syllable (and also you're missing the "n"). I agree that her character never really worked: she always just struck me as submissive and timid, kinda a stereotype. It'd be neat to see some writer go back to her and flesh her out better.
    - Carrion supremacy! I have no idea who Big M is, even though I've read all of these.
    - I like White Tiger, but I get your gripes. Your feelings were probably shared by many, since subsequent writers would basically tear his life to shreds ten times over.
    Thank you again for all these amazing videos!

  • @cecilDisharoon
    @cecilDisharoon Месяц назад

    6:55 a posthumous Champions team up, more like.
    These visuals take a while, I appreciate the effort

  • @rickrivers2021
    @rickrivers2021 4 месяца назад +2

    Frenchie is not Moon Knight's Butler, he's his best friend and former mercenary buddy
    Moon Knight ised to have a Butler as well, but the dude was just kinda there. Whereas Frenchie's a really important character

  • @GuerreroThought
    @GuerreroThought 4 месяца назад +1

    Ah good ole Hate Monger. Classic FF villain

  • @luis99tv
    @luis99tv 4 месяца назад +3

    We can all agree that Spectacular has a better cast of writers than Amazing.

    • @rickrivers2021
      @rickrivers2021 4 месяца назад +5

      I mean, depends on the era. If youre talking about oberall, ASM has just had so many its not so clear
      And if you're talking about this era specifically, I'd agree as far as *Spider-Man* writers, but Wein, Wolfman, and O'Neil all have legendary work on other characters

    • @matthewschwartz6607
      @matthewschwartz6607 4 месяца назад

      The Wein run was good.

    • @_davidboxing
      @_davidboxing 3 месяца назад +1

      The same with the Spectacular Spider-man show.

  • @T3aseW1thease
    @T3aseW1thease 3 месяца назад +1

    Are you going to cover Roger Stern and Tom Defalco's Runs on Spider-Man?

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  3 месяца назад +1

      Yes. I'll cover everything until at least Straczynski. My intention is to read all main runs until #1000

    • @T3aseW1thease
      @T3aseW1thease 3 месяца назад

      @@FinnSutoThe2nd Nice. but will/can you also cover the Original Ultimate Spider-Man Comics after you've covered everything till Straczynski's Run?

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  3 месяца назад

      I'm planning covering parts of old Ultimate but not the whole thing

    • @T3aseW1thease
      @T3aseW1thease 3 месяца назад

      @@FinnSutoThe2nd Which ever part you cover can you PLEASE cover Peter and Kitty Pryde's Relationship? it was so wholesome and underrated and Im so mad that they broke them up just so Peter can be with Mj and copy 616 where they were married instead of taking advantage of it being an alternate universe and them not being tied down to anything.

  • @devinhorton3331
    @devinhorton3331 3 месяца назад

    So, something to note about John Buscema is that while most of his work is solid jobber work on various Marvel titles, he really shines in the Conan comics. The RUclipsr ComicTropes did a good video over him. I think you should check it out so you can learn a little bit more about him vs his brother, even if just for fun!

  • @Ghoul-Mask
    @Ghoul-Mask 3 месяца назад +1

    Where you get your reading orders? I was getting out of depression and felt like diving into comics again. Wanna read !whole! Spidey, punisher, daredevil, and whatever I can in Wolverine since I read and liked some of em before.

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  3 месяца назад

      For Spider-Man, I literally started at #1 and went from there. When I'm not doing it this way I just pick a writer or era I'm interested in, pick the first issue and go from there. Usually the comic will tell you if you need something extra like an Annual or a crossover. Classic stuff didn't crossover too much, usually just for a one off story. Those can most of the time be even skipped if you really wanna due to the self contained nature of Silver and Bronze Age stories. For Modern stories, I'd use Marvel Unlimited since there they tend to compile runs and events into a playlist for you.
      If you wanna pick out issues, you can Google and usually find a Reddit thread breaking it down. Popular characters usually have wiki's on Reddit breaking down reading orders and eras. I believe ComicBookHerald.com has compiled reading
      orders but I don't really use it so I don't know exactly how thorough it is.

  • @ScottE-2
    @ScottE-2 4 месяца назад +1

    Not bad dude. I like the way you flow into the discussion. One word of advice. Try to clean out the audio fuzz, OcenAudio has a pretty good noise removal tool. It can work with MP4 files directly so it can save time for editing.

  • @positiveproductions6699
    @positiveproductions6699 4 месяца назад +2

    Are these all from the first spectacular Spider-Man omnibus? Thanks

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  4 месяца назад +4

      Yes. The video and the omni end where Mantlo's run ends. SSM after this is written by Roger Stern.

    • @rickrivers2021
      @rickrivers2021 4 месяца назад

      ​@@FinnSutoThe2ndjust a heads up, Stern's Spectacular run should be read before his ASM

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  4 месяца назад

      @rickrivers2021 I will include it in Stern's video

  • @sap9255
    @sap9255 4 месяца назад

    The goats back

  • @TheMonghy
    @TheMonghy 2 месяца назад

    That title is unfortunately accurate across many periods during the history of 616 Spidey

  • @camilocuba6927
    @camilocuba6927 4 месяца назад

    My kids loved Swarm when they were 5 and 3 years old, so I think a bee themed villain was more geared toward the kid readers (the large majority of readers then) and not us old phogies (who are the majority of readers these days).

  • @benedictusbriaan
    @benedictusbriaan 3 месяца назад

    Can you please make a video about Spider-Man story when Betty Brant kidnapped by the cult Students of Love in Web of Spider-Man in the 80s (I think), especially when Alex Saviuk became Web of Spider-Man artist?

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  3 месяца назад

      If I have something to say when the story comes up, I will

  • @erictoro6519
    @erictoro6519 3 месяца назад

    When you had writers that actually wrote good stories unlike now .

  • @shytweedabone2663
    @shytweedabone2663 3 месяца назад +1

    I thought I was crazy... I recently read ASM 1 through somewhere in the 400s.
    I ended up somewhat lost around the conclusion of the clone saga.
    Then I switched to PPSSM starting at 1 and I am somewhere in the late 50s.
    I was and am thinking that PPSSM is better than ASM as far as the storytelling.
    Granted it's still early in the game...

  • @reymafias6404
    @reymafias6404 3 месяца назад +2

    Do Marvel Team-Up!!!!

  • @Melkac
    @Melkac 3 месяца назад +1

    why do you call tarantula “tarantilla”?

    • @FinnSutoThe2nd
      @FinnSutoThe2nd  3 месяца назад +1

      That's classified. National security. Thank you for understandilla.

  • @mason-sg7qy
    @mason-sg7qy 4 месяца назад

    Than*. Love the vid just saying lol

  • @stanleysmith7551
    @stanleysmith7551 4 месяца назад

    Finally.

  • @kevin-2.1
    @kevin-2.1 3 месяца назад

    I would prefer Amazing.

  • @dawwe8869
    @dawwe8869 4 месяца назад

    Eyy

  • @andrewheard3099
    @andrewheard3099 3 месяца назад

    I like John Buscema way more than Sal.

  • @pallapazza71
    @pallapazza71 3 месяца назад

    I care about Hector.

    • @uncannydcmarvelous5732
      @uncannydcmarvelous5732 3 месяца назад

      So, any opinions on him debuting in the MCU in Daredevil Born Again... despite that may be his only appearance because of his actor passing away in last's years christmas eve?

    • @pallapazza71
      @pallapazza71 3 месяца назад

      @@uncannydcmarvelous5732 It's probably going to be his only appearance yeah. But both the casting and the choice of show are excellent.

  • @robertcoggeshall3071
    @robertcoggeshall3071 3 месяца назад

    Spectacular Spiderman wasn't as good as amazing.

  • @themultiversalmagpie7827
    @themultiversalmagpie7827 4 месяца назад

    I’ve been thinking of reading this series but I’d always heard it wasn’t good

  • @johncole015
    @johncole015 4 месяца назад

    I Was a fan of the character until that ludicrous one more day/brand new day reboot.

    • @HELLO_KORO
      @HELLO_KORO 3 месяца назад

      Atleast there's renew your vows and the new ultimate Spider-Man

    • @robertcoggeshall3071
      @robertcoggeshall3071 3 месяца назад

      The clone nonsense ended it for me around 400.