Pilots FIGHTING in the COCKPIT!!
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- In June of 2022, two #airfrance pilots got into a real scuffle during a flight from Geneva to Paris. The cabin crew of the flight intervened to break up the bout but why were they #fighting and what were the consequences? Let's explore....
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
Sources
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VIDEO DONGHAI: • Donghai Airlines - Ina...
VIDEO AIR FRANCE: • Air France is taking c...
VIDEO AIR FRANCE: • We are Air France
VIDEO A320 PRODUCTION: • A320 production: from ...
VIDEO BOEING: • Boeing 787-10 Dreamlin...
VIDEO AIRBUS: • Airbus Commercial Airc...
VIDEO ALASKA AIRLINES: • Alaska Airlines air to...
Forget "fight or flight" its "fight in flight" y'all
If u were a Canadian that sentence be the same but no y all at the end it would be eh lmao
8=D
Flight and fight.
👀
That’s one of the funniest comment I’ve seen in a long time!! BRAVO!!
@@enigmawyoming5201 bravo what?
Beyond the safety aspect, imagine how embarrassing this must be on a personal level for the pilots, not just that it went public but imagine everyone in your airline knowing that you behaved so badly and stupidly that a member of the cabin crew decided they had to babysit you for the rest of the flight.
The only intelligent comment I have read. These guys have to face looks every time they show up because although grounded, they have had to come to the office for « a little chat with the boss. ».Although people say nothing, the weight of the shame they feel and they have to carry will be there for a long time.
Having said this I can remember 2 Qantas pilots going at each other in the cockpit….on the ground just before a Dallas Sydney flight on a 744.
So……where do we go from here ?? Cuz there are only 2 answers to this problem :
Either they get sacked on the spot and let me tell you French pilots union will not let this happen
Or they are deemed fit to fly after a slap on the wrist amounting to weeks or months on the ground without pay to let them…..and the rest of the group …..reflect on what is not to be done. And even that, will be a hard one to sell to the union.
The rest is only pointless talk.
The horse has already bolted and this, among other Air France issues, is already flying around the world.
i suspect they won't need to worry about it soon. I can't see these pilot's remaining as pilot's if they actually did fight
@@Bruno-tm3xo "the weight of the shame they feel and they have to carry will be there for a long time" - Oh, those poor pilots. Maybe you should start a GoFundMe page for them. If one of them was simply defending him/herself, then I do feel bad for that individual and that person should walk away unscathed. However, whomever was voluntarily actively fighting deserves nobody's sympathy. They willfully and recklessly put the lives of every crew member and every passenger at risk. The shame they will face is nothing compared to the danger and potential loss of life they created by their behavior.
@@nomore6167 ……answer from the enlightened one !! Yawn
@@davidrenton you want to bet ???
It was extremely professional for the cabin crew to take the decision to remain in the cabin to ensure the safety of the passengers as the airlines priority. That should be recognized.
Agreed. Putting myself in the cabin crew's shoes I'd of gladly babysat the pilots. You won't be taking me down with you.
Professional? Common sense, fear of death by idiots, heck, by that point I'd feel safer attempting the landing myself
@@JonosBtheMC I get it.if one pilot had actually hit another even if I were a passenger I’d demand a flight attendant babysitter to watch those children in adult bodies with hundreds of lives in their hands.
But yeah there might have been another measure that the cabin crew could invoke. They’re trained to be able to assist a solo pilot in cases of pilot incapacitation with checklists and maybe radio operations. I’m not fully sure but I’d have been tempted to separate them. Make one sit at the back for a few hours then switch. It’s just not good.
Haha, for this extra work a decent purser would have beaten the shit out of both little kiddies once on the ground ;-).
@Jaquan Kelsor ""They didn’t care about the argument or passengers. They themselves just didn’t want to die..." While I agree that self-preservation probably had a heavy hand in that decision, there are still many, many people in this world that care about others, even without any reason for doing so. And yes, I *DO* think that if a person with a 9-5 job saw a colleague put tens or hundreds of people's lives in danger, then that person would take steps to reduce or remove that risk. Not everyone would, of course, but many would. It's called being a decent person.
In a similar situation, as a conductor (co-pilot) on a train, I once worked with an engineer that disregarded basic safety procedures on our run and was incredibly dangerous and belligerent about it when I questioned him. We nearly came to blows over it. There are very unprofessional and unsafe people in the positions of high responsibility. Sucks.
I've always wondered what the duties for conductors and engineers are. I figured the conductor basically makes the train start and stop, and the engineer watches gauges and makes sure the engine doesn't explode, to oversimplify.
@@chitlitlah hehe well.... the engines are electric nowadays with a diesel generator. They can catch fire but very rarely.
The engineer sits on his fat arse and works the forward/reverse and brake controls. Conductor keeps track of signals, speed limits and whistle crossings and calls them out to engineer just as a "checklist/check" banter with engineer. Conductor only has ONE control on his side, EMERGENCY BRAKE.
Also, if there's any walking that needs to be done, it's the Conductor that has the pleasure of getting off the engine and "crunching rocks" with his boots.
@@Heywood.Jablome I also immagine it's nice to have someone able to stop the train in case the contructor simply, you know... dies
@@simonz5905 yes. The conductor also is an engineer usually so both are capable of safely operating the train. It's just that some people lack the professionalism to hold jobs of high responsibility even if they have the skills and knowledge to to so. Playing dangerous pranks all the time because they have a sick sense of humor, ignoring laws and guidelines because they "know better". It's true in every industry. It's fatally dangerous in some.
@@chitlitlah The conductor is the person who touches the pantograph ...
One of the cabin crew having to sit in the cockpit to keep them apart.
That's horrific indiscipline.
But, kudos to the cabin crew for taking the initiative though. That should be recognised.
Pilots are human, and humans have conflicts. We can't all get along 100% of the time, but saying something like "We can discuss this after the flight" sounds reasonable to me.
Yep
Hi mentor pilot, I really enjoy your channel.thanks for showing us what happens inside the cabin.I’ve a question,which airline do you fly for I wish to fly on your flight someday
@Game Plays 1230 I would like to think this is the cause of the fight. I can't see why else it would've started
I disagree, the pilots should have fought it out and the pilot who won the fight should have been declared captain and he should have been the one who should have then flown the plane. The other pilot who lost should have been ordered to take off his uniform and wear a cabin crew miniskirt and serve the passengers.
@@dann5480 We are not Klingons.
I spent just short of 42 years working in a nuclear power plant 33 of which put me at the controls. We did frequent simulator training and our crews were always evaluated on teamwork as a matter of course. I was blessed to work with a crew where everyone had each other's back and we always received high marks for teamwork. Even so, sometimes it was necessary to put feelings aside, and just concentrate on the task at hand. That's really the best way to manage acute conflict issues (in my opinion).
Unfortunately, it seems (especially in modern times) that it takes a strong person to be able to put his or her feelings aside and work together toward a common goal. Too many people want to continue arguments and conflicts, even to their own detriment.
@@nomore6167 too true. Our management didn't expect everyone to be bosom buddies but they demanded professional courtesy. Happily, in my nearly 42 years I had very few occasions to act as referee/conciliator. The vast majority of the people working there took their responsibilities very seriously, and my particular crew was cited for how well we all managed to get along.
At some stage you still need to do 'Conflict Resolution 101' to deep fix the issue. Otherwise the risk is not dealt to.
@@davidjma7226 quite right
I’m in a 10+ year relationship with the only person I could ever tolerate more than 3 years. We are exact polar opposites on politics and social views.
I’m born and raised in Wyoming. State government is 90% (no exaggeration!) conservative Republican. I’m a poster Republican (sans Trump fan).
My mate is staunch liberal Democrat that at one time worked in Washington D.C. as a lobbyist.
Oh…. In case you are wondering… we met on an online dating site.
We get along wonderfully.
We don’t discuss politics unless we know we have a common opinion, like it really sucks how no party is interested in trying to compromise.
We both understand the IMPORTANCE of not “going there” in our discussions, and we aren’t even getting paid to do so.
What is so hard about just sticking to your job and get along? If only pilots could still be mentally and physically able to do their job at 70 years old after the testosteroni hormones settle out. Well, only I have testosteroni hormones in my example relationship, but you get the point.
I’ve flown with a few really irritating F/O’s and Captains over the years. No matter how annoying the other person is, you don’t fight in the air - you just keep it standard. My airline did have a ‘Roster Block’ that would automatically prevent you from flying with someone you could not work with. You’ll not be surprised to hear that the few same names kept appearing in the avoid list (three names out of over 400 pilots).
@Nicky L Assigned less and less until they went of their own accord?
@@653j521 Not everyone has a problem with these people so they do get to work. Interestingly though they were all non-proms, ie. Un-promotable F/O’s.
@Nicky L They were irritating and a challenge to work with so disciplinary action would be inappropriate. Furthermore, they were well protected by a very, very strong union. Their names though are engraved on my memory. Should the following initials appear in a crash, then I’ll be upset: TM, LD, BdB & AS.
@@Trevor_Austin what would make an airline consider one of their f/o's to be unpromotable? & also, why even bother retaining such a pilot?
@@232K7 One big thing that can render a first officer ‘un-promotable’ is their performance during recurrent simulator training.
Thank you for addressing this. I initially read about the Air France incident on the Mentour Pilot app. I was wondering how something like this happened. I know unruly passengers put flights in danger. This is the first I've heard of unruly pilots. Thank you, again, for doing a video about this.
Glad you found it interesting. It’s VERY rare for things to go THIS far in the cockpit.
There have been a couple incidents lately I think. One of an aircraft being stolen and a microlight threatening to crash his plane somewhere. Not sure if you're waiting for reports but thought I'd post in case you were too busy to notice them.
Might be the incidents are too trivial for discussion anyways, i.e., as being so rare that they are likely to be 1 in 1000yr events
Avoid AIR FRANCE at all costs. It’s one of the worst airlines in terms of SAFETY (I would say almost as bad as those asian ones - Chinese, Indonesian …. etc.).
If you *read between the lines,* there are so many safety incidents involving this airline (particularly when it comes to awful pilots - some of the worst), from *_AIR FRANCE 447, the recent 777 incident on final when landing, to this incident, ….etc. etc._* that a person would be insane to get on board this carrier!!
Personally, neither my family, nor myself would step foot on this airline even if they gave me a bunch of free tickets. It’s not worth risking my family’s life!
@@MentourNow Have you ever witnessed arguments between pilots as an examiner (whilst doing the examination) ?
@@MrPomelo555 I think the observer effect would prevent anyone from getting too heated.
This was a major concern on the Apollo missions to the moon. You have three people stuck in extremely close proximity, and extended periods of time. A lot of effort went into making sure the crews were compatible with each other, which helps. But NASA also felt that keeping the astronauts too busy to get irritated with each other was also good. It worked, because the missions worked.
But i guess when you can pick and choose between elite people with the "right stuff," you can make things happen.
Any future missions to mars or the like will also have to deal with these issues. And they are not trivial issues.
They have now done it 10x over for Mars down to how much space each crew member needs. Its an interesting study.
Indeed.
This exactly why they never have bean MRE meals on space missions.
@@enigmawyoming5201
Reminds of the lift skit in Revenge of the Pink Panther.
That approach didn't work so well during the Skylab missions...
Another great video. No matter how passionate you are about something, if you’re in the transportation industry, that stuff has to be buried while you’re at the controls. People can be killed so easily with large machinery.
Something similar in medicine or surgeries too.
Defence too (as in actual workings of personnel in the army, navy, airforce).
I just LOVE Mentour Pilot, Petter. The way you so articulately explain & go into such detail with ALL your videos is to be commendable 👏🏽👏🏽. For someone like me who is not knowledgeable about aircrafts, after I watch your videos, I gain SO much knowledge & understanding!! I SO appreciate you Petter & look forward to watching ALL your videos. YOU ARE THE BEST🙌🏽👏🏽👍🏽
Glad you liked it
I previously worked as ground crew for UPS cargo jets. I probably would've hated every person I worked with but I literally depended on these people for life during the job, so we all put aside our personal experiences at work. So no, I can't understand this situation. If non-educated neanderthals can put aside their differences and keep each other safe, I would expect 1000Xs more so from someone who is a professional.
Another great video Rudolph, err, Petter. 😂. Love getting the semantics in general which helps put things in context. While we may never know the true story, it helps to understand the environment.
Watch out for that global warming, holes in the ozone and Florida beach ⛱️ vacation for these Swedish guys 🤣😂
SPF 100!!
Indeed, neglected the pre-beach checklist ?
Trident crash, Staines, 1972 comes to mind.
@@mroptimistic8957 lmfao excellent!
"basically, baby sitting the pilots, which is very sad" 😂😂😂😂
The need - yes!
Not investigating because "there were no consequences for the flight involved" seems a debatable decision to me. Isn't safety culture about learning from events that could have lead to consequences? And given that this involved human behaviour and a failure of CRM, I can imagine there's still a lot to learn. We are human and conflicts can happen. Knowing how to effectively defuse that is good knowledge to have. Thanks for the video!
Agreed. The CVR recording should also have been preserved, not just for disciplinary purposes, but to learn from this incident to see what can be done to prevent it from happening again.
@@vbscript2 exactly what I was thinking. But it seems unlikely that either of the cockpit crew would be willing to pull the CVR's breaker in-flight to preserve a record of how unprofessional they had been, even IF that were allowed by the airline and the authorities (and I'd bet that it is not). By the time the flight landed the relevant part of the CVR would already have been overwritten so there was no point in pulling the breaker once back on the ground. Without the CVR as an unbiased witness, there would be little that the safety authorities could definitely say anyway, so leaving the airline to handle the disciplinary measures actually does seem an understandable response.
@@tagferret6898 It was a short flight from Geneva to Paris, so the CVR shouldn't have been overwritten by the time they landed. They should have pulled the CVR upon arrival, IMO.
My goodness! If ever you must keep cool it's certainly when your life and other lives are depending on the crew's maturity to evaluate all threats, even a knuckle sandwich! Agreed, another video well done MP!
This would be hilarious in a Will Ferrell movie. But completely terrifying in real life. Glad the cabin crew broke it up instead of gathering in a circle yelling "kick his ass!"
hahahaha, well done 😂 the Will Smith - Chris Rock slap fit in perfectly in there 😂😂😂
Yeah, we thought so
A physical altercation between captain and first officer, especially during takeoff and climb out, or during a landing sequence, threatens the safety of all on board. Such behavior should result in the grounding of both officers pending an investigation, and possible job termination.
I agree. This kind of behaviour should result in cancellation of their commercial pilots license. It's too crazy to contemplate being a passenger on such a flight!
And what happens if it turns out the disagreement is about the flight itself, and both sides are convinced their idea is the _only_ correct option and will refuse to implement the command of the other? One of them might be right, and if they are, they need to be _rewarded_ for standing their ground, not punished.
That's not CRM. And it shouldn't get physical.
@@mal2ksc well that’s why they’re investing (Air France internally). But I’m not convinced they will be transparent about it. Even the French civil aviation authority says it’s not safety related, how could that be? ‘Shortly after takeoff’ should mean the flight was still climbing and that’s at a crucial time for the flight and passengers are advice to be seated and belts fastened, instead pilots are exchanging knuckle blows, and are distracted.
From my own recent observation of AF flight from WASHINGTON IAD to PARIS CDG 777-200 after we took off and still climbing I saw the flight attendants up walking around and seat belts signs off. I was shock because in the US even for simple 737 flights it will reach cruising altitude for the pilots to announce the go ahead sign to start services. I felt like AF is too lax with their safety. Coming back on KLM A330 it was a smoother ride with clear instructions from the pilots and crew before take off and landing. No one seem to be in a hurry compare to AF.
I mean at that point you might as well just start throwing rocks into the engines.
If I had to choose between losing a pilot or losing an engine, I'd rather lose the engine.
Well Captain Petter you surely worded this short video absolutely perfect. If you have an issue with a fellow pilot in the cockpit you sort that difference out once you are out of the aircraft, wait till you are outside then knock seven bells out of each on the tarmac if you must, but not in the cockpit.
Yeah if the pilots were arguing before the flight began and it was so serious that it resulted in a physical altercation on board then they should never have got into the cockpit in the first place. There is absolutely no way of knowing how their argument would have affected their ability to cope in an emergency because their professionalism was clearly compromised.
🎵 Everybody is Cockpit fighting / Your mind becomes fast as lightning / Although the future is a little bit frightening
I know this is a serious incident. The issue is I'm picturing in my mind that when the cabin crew member entered the cockpit, they threw two baguettes to the pilots and shouted "SETTLE THIS LIKE PROPER FRENCHMEN AND DUEL". Then the fight stopped only when there realised there was some paté in their flight bags and accepted they were just a bit hangry.
LOL - So, would that make pate the French equivalent of a Snickers?
@@vbscript2 ha.. yes!
No matter how professional you are, a situation can be created where you snap. It happened to me once in my life, and I rate myself as extremely non-violent.
There absolutely needs to be an official investigation and report. Using the excuse "there wasn't an adverse consequences on the flight" is nonsense.
Indeed.
Yep! Air France, you shouldn't get to sweep this under a rock so easily. Having the two pilots physically fight, and _during climb_ of all times, is absolutely a serious safety incident. Sooo many things could have happened.
This reminds me of when I used to work 12.5 hour shifts at Dunlop. I worked with another man on the opposite shift (day or night). The half hour overlap was so that the person finishing their shift could brief the person starting their shift. I would go through the list of items he needed to know but instead of replies like "OK" or "understood" he would often say "I know". This used to infuriate me so sometimes I would just say "Well if you know it all I won't bother telling you" and I would go home!
I congratulate Air France on the professionalism of their flight attendants. They recognized the cockpit crew presented a potential safety problem for the flight, and chose for one of them to ride in the cockpit with these pilots
Yes, let's commend Air France for choosing responsible cabin crew but not pilots. Sheesh!!!!!
Thank you and have a great week.
I seem to remember that the investigation of the tragic crash of BEA 548 in 1971 shortly after take-off from Heathrow concluded that poor relations between personnel had a bearing on the incident. Shows just what can happen when personalities clash.
Your advice toward the end is great advice for any workplace.
Stay professional, focus on the task at hand, and where critical keep safety your top priority.
And, "keep a positive attitude".
As a professional engineer (product development, not locomotive driving) with a particular interest in failure analysis, and as the son of a retired commercial and military pilot, I always enjoy your videos!
When I was in the US Navy in the 1980's, my specialty involved similarly cramped conditions, long hours, and stress-inducing responsibilities.
The Navy sent us to communication and conflict resolution classes to make sure we knew how to defuse such heated situations.
I'm wondering if modern pilot training includes such classes?
I’ve got to say, if my two pilots are not getting along, I’d be glad they recognized their issue and got off the plane!
Preferably, they would get off the plane when it is on the ground. 😊
BEA flight 548 which crashed in 1972 had an altercation between pilot and copilot prior to departure described by a witness as 'the most violent argument he had ever heard"
how it started:
pilot 1: "Your mother smells of elderberries"
pilot 2: "I fart in your general direction"
etc...
Air Chance never fails to deliver.
Hey Rudolph what's up? Always watch your videos they are very interesting and your explanations are always thorough and factual
I don't know about Air France, but I flew in the States in July and got to witness a cockpit crew member rush off the flight flipping birds and screaming obscenities before quickly disappearing. This was 30 minutes before boarding. They had to delay the flight until they found another cockpit crew member to replace him.
Wow, that's nuts. Thankfully never witnessed anything like that.
I love your content Mentour!
Hey Petter, listen I just wanted to tell you to ignore the haters, do not reply to any hater on the youtube comment section. They just want and love to bring successful people down because they envy what you have since they don’t have that level of success. Keep your head high and most importantly focus on producing high quality content like you have been doing and the job you love the most! I hope you read this and it makes your day. Cheers !
If these pilots are not professional enough to leave their disagreements on the tarmac, then they should not be allowed to retain their commercial licenses.
There is simply no excuse for fighting physically inside an aircraft cockpit. That is a breakdown in discipline and simply cannot and must not be tolerated.
Definitely gives a new meaning to fight or flight!
In this case, flight *and* fight.
We had this issue in Ryanair back in 98 when two pilots (one a Croatian the other a Serbian) ended up fighting on the apron at Stansted, if memory serves me correct both were dismissed
The "Text via telegram" reply is fraud and has nothing to do with Mentour Now!.
"This cockpit's not big enough for the two of us."
Ha ha
Remember when we were children and started arguing in the car. And our parents would threat to turn the car around and go home the Alaska airlines story is a fitting example
I think it's good that that pilot said he can't get along and vacated the flight. You often talk about how if you can't trust your first officer it's a really bad thing which has led to quite a few accidents. Is that worth delaying people for an hour or two.? I would say yes.
YES! Was hoping you’d cover this one 👍
I will certainly follow your advice.
Excellent call by cabin crew for one of them to remain in the flight deck!
This story is baffling. Thanks for the breakdown man.
I like that flight attendant babysitting the pilots.
Het, Petter, another good one. Love your red nose - getting a bit too much sun? Where I am it's hot as hell in the shop (no sun but permanent heat exhaustion). Can't wait for winter and the heating bills. I know, complain, complain, complain. Glad there are pros like you out there who can explain the truth.
Right after take off out of Geneva, with high terrain and "mountain weather" all around. Brilliant idea indeed.
Add one more item to the psychological screening for pilots: "Proclivity to violence when feel threatened or when emotions exceed control".
Add that to the ongoing testing "warning signs of pilot murder-suicidal tendencies, (i.e. divorce, demotion, financial problems, pending unwanted revelation of an highly embarrassing personal event in life"). We now have a pretty solid database of contribution factors in notable accidents (Egypt Air, Silk Air, and recent China Air and likely MH370) of these contributing factors.
...and Germanwings and LAM, yes, indeed.
The 'fight' was a clever distraction to explain those love.making sounds.
Saw a video of Swiss cockpit operations.
Both pilots were pretty laid back and seemed to have plenty of space.
Then I noticed: no control column?
Of course, that's what sets the Airbus design apart.
No control columns but side sticks.
Id love a video on how pilots avoid conflict. Could be useful in other life situations.
Since this happened after takeoff, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the flight deck wall when the approach briefing was carried out, and various descent checklists were run...
"Gear down"
"Do it yourself" :)
So, when I watched this video I wondered if it could have been a case where one pilot was losing situational awareness, or had gotten confused or had some other medical or other reason to be making serious mistakes that would or could possibly endanger the flight and was ignoring or resisting the other pilot’s attempts to warn him or let go of the controls when the correct pilot demanded it.
In such a desperate situation the correct pilot would have to attack the other one to incapacitate him so the correct pilot could take the controls to fly safely. But then I did a quick Google search and found out the incident happened aboard an Airbus. They have a “pilot priority” button on the side sticks. In such a situation the correct pilot could have just pressed and held that button and the Aircraft would ignore all input from the erring pilot, but would announce that the system had been activated. But Boeing has no equivalent and attack in the only option in such a situation.
Alas, it seems it probably was an unprofessional fight and I’m disappointed that it happened. That being said I work in ground handling and that often includes cleaning the 737 max 8s. They are really space limited and sometimes when there are two catering guys, flight attendants, two pilots and an irritating colleague all constantly getting in my way I find myself having to control the urge to yell at them to get out of my way,
And I do control it because I’m an adult.
Another great video for sure and I must say it looks as if your getting some sun lately. 😎
Such debriefing and referencing additional correlated incidents is what makes these crisper, current events related productions (of Mentour Now) so much more engaging.
Bringing in the good, bad and of-course the Donghai type ugly incidents👌🏽👍🏼 on the composite discussion.
Excellent videos. Always very instructive and clear
I noticed the Will Smith slap you put in there Petter 😂
Excellent segment. Thank you. There are lessons for all of us here.
Thats true focus on getting passengers safely to their destination .
I was waiting for your input about this incident. Thanks.
The funniest part is when you know they were sat down all the fight.
Hahaha
In training for the French Paralympic Team. Wheelchair Boxing! 🙄😱
I have to say, the decision of the cabin crew to remain in the cockpit was a demonstration of amazing good judgement on their behalf.
The lads were just getting psyched up for UFC Paris
"ladies and gentlemen this is your captain speaking; today's flight we're expecting some minor turbulence, followed by a fist fight, then a bumpy landing"...If you want to see the fight just pay $3 dollars and turn on the seat-back TV".......lololol
"Hitting each other with baguettes" was certainly a surprising part of this video...
The "La Tribune" article shown in the video mentions the release of a BEA report and also that the incident involved an engine not being started before takeoff followed by a non-procedural start of that engine.
Great W.C.Fields impression Mentour!
That's the worst in-flight entertainment ever.
I heard down in Colombia they play bingo for the whole plane on the intercom and the winner gets a small prize.
True
Fortunately there was the Cabin Crew present to baby-sit these Pilots. I questioned myself: Why do we have again to talk about Air France?🤔
Thank you very much for the video!
I have reservations about ever flying with Air France, all the more reinforced now after hearing about this outrageous incident. Both pilots should be dismissed immediately.
Love the small smirk on your face throughout this video Petter. 😂
Fixing the issue Cockpit fights could start by removing the cocks from that pit. That's why in the USA they refer to it as the flight deck.
Great video. Scary stuff that humans lose their temper (esp professionals like pilots). Bad enough we have been dealing with passenger air rage - Disturbing to hear such extreme air rage between flight crew.
This is a scenario I never visualized happening, but given the factors you mention - cockpit size, delays, human nature etc. - maybe the question is, really, "why doesn't it happen more often?". In any event certainly an eye-opening topic, and another great video!
As a captain, treating your FO badly is a no no and visa verse. The flight deck is no place for a heated argument, shouting match or fight. If you are flying with someone who is being hostile or disrespectful and you two can’t resolve it the yes leave. Fortionatly, I have not had situations where I have had to leave or gotten into a serious altercation. I have had an instance where I did get into it with a Captain due inappropriate behavior but it was worked out and we continued. I can also say I have had many great conversations about politics and religion on the flight. Keep professional and don’t feel bad if you two have to part ways if it isn’t resolvable.
Remember how, stupid me, sitting in the cockpit jumps seat on a SK flight 1996ish brought up the very delicate theme of how Linjeflyg (LF, domestic Swedish carrier) captains where downgraded to frist officers when the two companies where merged, often even if LF captains had more experience than many SAS captains. All of a sudden the mood in the cockpit dropped significantly.... 🙄 Though they didn't start fighting!
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
Nice tunes in the background! 1:47 onwards is all CBLF-trippy-cosmic-ambient
Glad that the auto-pilot was a calm guy!
hey, did you got sunburned on your nose? have you been at a beach or did you get it in cockpit :)
Haha.. yeah, a bit to much sun
Mentor Pilot’s nose looks like it got into a cockpit fight!
This does put a new complexion on crew resource management.
Boxing gloves should be kept on the flight deck?
Awesome idea for an episode
Another great video from you, captain. I have also read about this. Thank you for your explanation. Yes, as humans we tend to have some disagreements, but they should be avoided while piloting or resolve it before as the other two pilots did. Thank you for your video!
That sounds like more than an inhouse investigation should be done.
If something like this happened only verbally with an air traffic controller wouldn't they be asked to call to have a chat with authorities?
Indeed.
Petter… You’ve gotten some sun! Glad to see you got some downtime. Hope you and your family are well! Cheers, mate. -Aaron
I was thinking that my monitor was out of calibration and having issues with red nuances :)
Thanks Petter. The same article talked about Air France pilots taking their own decisions on what actions to take in response to aircraft alerts and warnings - where the a/c manufacturer indicated that such alerts / warnings should have the aircraft land asap. We are not talking here about pilot actions in response to an emergency situation. We are talking ( I interpret) decisions based upon getting the aircraft back to home- base, end destinations , rather than opting for the ‘ inconvenience’ of a technical diversion to address a manufacturers alert. What thoughts ?Where is the line drawn on meeting your own personal goal of being a good- company-pilot, ignoring the manufacturers guidelines and calling on an option that if it turns out wrong, the flight safety situation turns out real- bad.
I actually read an article about this about 4 hours after the article was posted, I didn't get too far in because I was looking forward to hearing you talk about it.
"Two will enter, one will leave," is one form of CRM, I guess. You do have a clear chain of command once one is incapacitated, and the cheers of the colosseum crowd die down.
I am all about Crew Resource Management but at the end of the day, the Captain is the ultimate authority.
I am reminded of Captain Keys of the Slough Air-crash (BEA 548, 1972)
Shortly before the flight Captain Key was involved in an argument about impending Strike Action. He was very angry and vociferous. His First Officer was within hearing.
Some time between the argument and 90 seconds before the start of takeoff Captain Keys suffered a Cardiac event which the investigation sited as a causal event, in that he would have been in various levels of discomfort and pain, behind mistakes that were made surely afterwards that led to the loss of the aircraft.
The Cardiac Event was believed to have been the result of an underlying condition and the rise in blood pressure during the argument. It was also felt that the FO, who was noted as lacking in confidence, would have been intimidated by the outburst and that might partially explain why he didn't intervene to prevent the chain of events that led to a Deep Stall developing.
Indeed.
When I was hired by United Airlines in 1987 part of my interview involved a psychiatric session along with the MMPI test. Those types of tests are long gone as well as college degrees. Hiring standards are no longer at the gold standards, High school graduates are all that is required.
Whatever is happening with Air France lately is disturbing to say the least.
Yes.
Thank you for posting this video about a very important subject dealing with real life issues .
I once had a screaming row with an actor on a training course who was pretending to be a difficult employee.
It shuck me up for weeks.
Thank goodness it was an actor playing a part not a real employee.
I certainly learnt the need for a break when things get tense.