You know you're makin' me drool with all these old keyboard reviews, riiiiight...? I love this stuff! "Who are you" (the pink key mentioned) has to do with Baudot Code, which is the five-bit (five-hole, more properly) version of your paper tape codes there. More specifically, WhoAreYou aka WRU was introduced with the Western Union dialect, if you will... sort of third generation Baudot. It goes Baudot, Murray, Western Union, ITA2 (which had two versions, USA and "everyone else", go figure), 7bit ASCII, then 8bit ASCII. When received, the WRU code spat back from the receiving station, automagically, some sort of ID code telling you with whom you were communicating. As an aside, Emile Baudot, the inventor of that code, is also where the term for characters per second comes from... that would be Baud or Baud Rate. ...by the way, have you yet gotten the shipment with a particular Model M keyboard? ;) (Yeah, I'm that guy.) I can hardly wait to see the review!
Very interesting, thank you for the information! As for the M, it's on its way, along with some other boards someone's proxying for me. There's lots more stuff coming! :D
This is def one of my favourites from having binged watched a ton of your videos. Just screams old -school quality and is just so appealing in every way...
My grandfather was one of the founders of Decision Data, he was an engineer and he designed a lot of the printers and punchcard machines, there is very little information about the company online so it's really cool to see someone with one of their old keyboards.
Let's be clear. If you started pressing one of these switches once per second _when the Bayeux Tapestry was completed back in 1077_, you'd *still* have almost 10 years to go to reach 30 billion keypresses here in 2019.
that connector kinda looks like a JAMMA edge connector, you could probably use a harness adapter to break it out to wire an Arduino or something with to start to make it work on a modern PC!
you say 88 dollars isn't cheap but with the amounts people spend on new keyboards, even mediocre ones, I'd say it's pretty decent for such an interesting historical item
Almost sounds like Rain on a car roof except for that massive space bars metallic punching noise, very satisfying. You could do an 8hr typing test and I'd probably sleep like a baby to it.
As someone who grew up in the 70s I know the sound this keyboard makes well, it is the sound of keyboards in pretty much all military movies and TV shows where computers are involved. Really quite nostalgic.
Saw a similar machine as a child in a museum full of prehistoric tools and bone fragments. Quite appropriate :) One thing is, I remember it was branded Singer (the sewing machine company) but I never found a hard confirmation that Singer ever built such things, perhaps it is a false memory.
The Singer Corporation had subsidiary named Singer Business Machines which manufactured a System 10 computer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer_System_10 Picture: members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/S10/img-9150842-0001.pdf
For some reason, this triggered a memory of a Canadian children's television show I watched called 'Today's Special' (I'm in Canada!) The show took place after hours in a department store. The security guard named 'Sam' had a computer named 'TXL' with a female voice who talked back at him, and the keyboard was REALLY BIG. I just googled it, and the keyboard was actually white (I haven't seen that show in YEARS so I couldn't remember lol). It turns out, TXL's keyboard was actually just the bottom of an Apple II computer, with the Apple badge removed!!!
I have the board with "WHO ARE YOU"! It's an old military board, no surprise, with the most wonderful blue white and pink colorscheme, the who are you key in particular being my favorite key of all time. And an absolutely bizarre enter key with a mountain range like shelf on the right side of it.
Hi there, Am a big fan of all your videos. Thanks for starting a new hobby. Need a suggestion, what would be your choice of mass produced low profile keyboard? I use a pok3r mx blue, filco mx pink and a cherry ml. Low key travel and sharp responses are my priorities. Cheers, Sr.
I wonder how i will fall in love with keyboards when am in Africa and in some part of Africa where its absolutely difficult to get a keyboard here even if u ordered online. Love your vids awesome
Great review! I wonder if it'd be possible to adapt it to USB using one of XWhatsit's Capsense boards. The operating principle should be very much the same (measuring differences in voltages) and I'd assume it still uses a standard keyboard matrix. There's been examples of people using one for Model Ms, so it seems fairly flexible.
No, unfortunately these Honeywell Hall effect boards use weird pulse high and low sequence things or whatever which makes them almost impossible to convert. The whole way in which they send signals is apparently completely different from all other boards. I know there's at least one guy who's done it (he converted a Space Cadet), but many really good tech guys have tried and failed :( .
The plug looks like an edge connector. You can get prototype PCBs with edge fingers or you can just etch your own. It would have originally hugged the edge of the computer's logic board, the computer-side connector is simply executed as protrusion in the board shape. Think Commodore 64 cartridge connector. Also like on game console game cartridges and PC extension cards but in reverse. Unfortunately reading Hall keyboards isn't likely to be too trivial, you won't get very far with off the shelf kits, but i'm sure with some staring at the board and some tracing, it could be figured out.
I know this is out of place since we're talking about vintage stuff atm but do you happen to get a hold of some tealios switches? And is it significantly better than something like gateron blacks/vintage blacks to justify its high price point?
Question tho... I would love to build a battleship sized keyboard using Box navy switches... Would you be able to recommend anything regarding what case, backplate, etc?...
SA dasher, not sure if it still available because there was a massdrop exclusive drops for them back then. you probably can find it secondhand, but good luck dealing with the price.
Nice review. I got 2 of those from Ebay recently. One was in pretty dirty condition, but now I have the black/grey and the blue/white/grey variant, so I can create even more color combinations. Haven't gotten to work it yet, thats a project for another day ;)
@@ahobimo732 Not yet, mine have some pretty damaged cases so I'll have to think what to do about that. But someone on deskthority or geekhack solved the software side and shared the code with me. I'll get to it sometime ;)
If you want to read the user's manual, then you can find Section 2.4 ("Keyboard Keys and Controls") here: play.google.com/books/reader?id=i3M-AAAAYAAJ&hl=en&pg=GBS.SA2-PA10
I just realized, given that the 30 billion keystroke number's been referenced before, but howTF did Honeywell ever come up with that rating? If they actually tested it back then, they'd probably still be going until now and still not hit 30 billion.
That would be 120M per year, right? So ten years for 1,2 billion, one hundred years for 12 billion and 250 years for 30 billion keypresses? So basically if such a machine was starting to test one of these boards during Napoleon's time, it would still not be done?
I think the sound differences between the modern and old first gen keys most likely has the whole bunch of factors like the switch size, keycaps and the whole board makeup. Wouldn't be surprised if the old keyboard is four or six times heavier than any of the modern Ace pad boards. Really, you're not gonna find consumer level products with so much metal anymore ever since everyone started outsourcing everything.
Technically, almost all these Micro Switch keyboards are outsourced as well - MS made them third-party for a very wide range of other companies. Their most famous product was the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard.
Why do people keep parroting this rubbish about the modern layout coming from IBM. The DEC LK201 predates any IBM keyboard with anything approaching a modern layout by several years. Most noticably the invert T for the cursor keys, a modern num pad, function keys above the main keyboard, and the six keys abover the cursor pad. The only thing IBM didn't copy was the compose key, and dam those to hell who where responsible for this monstrous omission.
The LK201 layout is quite different from the M's. A lot of buttons are in similar positions, but they do very different things. The LK201 is universally credited with the inverse-T, though.
And yet a Model M looks far more like an LK201 than any Model F. That is if you knew nothing about keyboard history and just had graphics of the layouts and release dates you would put the Model M as descended from the LK201 and not the Model F which bares basically no resemblance to the layout of the Model M what so ever. DEC put it together and IBM only tweeked it a bit tacking out some keys that only really made sense on a terminal. Well apart from the compose key which like I said previously may they be dammed to hell for all eternity.
@@jonathanbuzzard6648 I think you're getting confused now. I didn't say the F set the standard for MODERN keyboards. It just set the standard for the time.
You know you're makin' me drool with all these old keyboard reviews, riiiiight...? I love this stuff!
"Who are you" (the pink key mentioned) has to do with Baudot Code, which is the five-bit (five-hole, more properly) version of your paper tape codes there. More specifically, WhoAreYou aka WRU was introduced with the Western Union dialect, if you will... sort of third generation Baudot. It goes Baudot, Murray, Western Union, ITA2 (which had two versions, USA and "everyone else", go figure), 7bit ASCII, then 8bit ASCII. When received, the WRU code spat back from the receiving station, automagically, some sort of ID code telling you with whom you were communicating.
As an aside, Emile Baudot, the inventor of that code, is also where the term for characters per second comes from... that would be Baud or Baud Rate.
...by the way, have you yet gotten the shipment with a particular Model M keyboard? ;) (Yeah, I'm that guy.) I can hardly wait to see the review!
Fantastic comment, very interesting
Very interesting, thank you for the information! As for the M, it's on its way, along with some other boards someone's proxying for me. There's lots more stuff coming! :D
i guess it is quite randomly asking but do anybody know a good website to stream new tv shows online ?
@Kingston Matias flixportal :D
@Raphael Aryan Thank you, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I really appreciate it!!
Another superb video, thank you Tom! The reverse ISO-enter on the left is mesmerizing and holy hell that ~9U spacebar is brutal :D
This is my favorite RUclips channel. Thank you for all the great work.
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the videos :) .
This is def one of my favourites from having binged watched a ton of your videos. Just screams old -school quality and is just so appealing in every way...
My grandfather was one of the founders of Decision Data, he was an engineer and he designed a lot of the printers and punchcard machines, there is very little information about the company online so it's really cool to see someone with one of their old keyboards.
WHY THE FUCK can we not make keycaps like these anymore
Let's be clear. If you started pressing one of these switches once per second _when the Bayeux Tapestry was completed back in 1077_, you'd *still* have almost 10 years to go to reach 30 billion keypresses here in 2019.
I liked history lesson part of this video very much. Please more!
12:36 God, that's adorable
I'd love to see a video that goes over odd, obsolete and rare keycap legends.
that connector kinda looks like a JAMMA edge connector, you could probably use a harness adapter to break it out to wire an Arduino or something with to start to make it work on a modern PC!
5:40 Man I would love a set of keycaps like that. Too bad they cost stupid amounts of money...
Just got myself the Drop SA Laser Hi-Pro Alt. SA Profile > DSA, OEM, GMK, etc.
you say 88 dollars isn't cheap but with the amounts people spend on new keyboards, even mediocre ones, I'd say it's pretty decent for such an interesting historical item
Yeah that sound is nice. Cherry could create something like this. Hall switches should be quite popular due to their sound and durability
Almost sounds like Rain on a car roof except for that massive space bars metallic punching noise, very satisfying.
You could do an 8hr typing test and I'd probably sleep like a baby to it.
As someone who grew up in the 70s I know the sound this keyboard makes well, it is the sound of keyboards in pretty much all military movies and TV shows where computers are involved. Really quite nostalgic.
Exactly ..that sound is in War Games and Tron. I'm still trying to find a Keyboard to sound "exactly' like that.
That "WHO ARE YOU" key is beyond rad.
2:52 Could this be the inspiration for Cherry's mousetrap switch from the 1950s? The mechanism looks suspiciously similar.
The size of 'cavity' from that big switch must have role to make such a satisfying sound, i think.
Yes, usually the roomy switches produce a much fuller sound than cramped ones.
I love those SA caps on that Ace Pad keyboard!
It's the board I bought them for, I think it works very well ^^ .
@@Chyrosran22 Is that the first gen Ace Pad HE keyboard, or a later one?
@@JackOfHarts96 That was a second-gen one.
Saw a similar machine as a child in a museum full of prehistoric tools and bone fragments. Quite appropriate :) One thing is, I remember it was branded Singer (the sewing machine company) but I never found a hard confirmation that Singer ever built such things, perhaps it is a false memory.
The Singer Corporation had subsidiary named Singer Business Machines which manufactured a System 10 computer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer_System_10
Picture: members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/S10/img-9150842-0001.pdf
That's beautiful, thanks for sharing.
After looking at all these old keyboard models I wish they made spacebars longer than 7u nowadays.
For some reason, this triggered a memory of a Canadian children's television show I watched called 'Today's Special' (I'm in Canada!) The show took place after hours in a department store. The security guard named 'Sam' had a computer named 'TXL' with a female voice who talked back at him, and the keyboard was REALLY BIG. I just googled it, and the keyboard was actually white (I haven't seen that show in YEARS so I couldn't remember lol). It turns out, TXL's keyboard was actually just the bottom of an Apple II computer, with the Apple badge removed!!!
I have the board with "WHO ARE YOU"! It's an old military board, no surprise, with the most wonderful blue white and pink colorscheme, the who are you key in particular being my favorite key of all time. And an absolutely bizarre enter key with a mountain range like shelf on the right side of it.
TIL Thomas's age.
That white grey blue color scheme.. hmmm yummy..
I think the Dasher still has the best "terminal" sound for the 70's. Now if we can just get a modern keyboard to sound like that.
Hi there, Am a big fan of all your videos. Thanks for starting a new hobby. Need a suggestion, what would be your choice of mass produced low profile keyboard? I use a pok3r mx blue, filco mx pink and a cherry ml. Low key travel and sharp responses are my priorities. Cheers, Sr.
I'm not sure. The low profile clicky Kaihua switches seemed pretty interesting, maybe give them a try?
That's what I'd call the inspired work!
I wonder how i will fall in love with keyboards when am in Africa and in some part of
Africa where its absolutely difficult to get a keyboard here even if u ordered online. Love your vids awesome
Great review! I wonder if it'd be possible to adapt it to USB using one of XWhatsit's Capsense boards. The operating principle should be very much the same (measuring differences in voltages) and I'd assume it still uses a standard keyboard matrix. There's been examples of people using one for Model Ms, so it seems fairly flexible.
No, unfortunately these Honeywell Hall effect boards use weird pulse high and low sequence things or whatever which makes them almost impossible to convert. The whole way in which they send signals is apparently completely different from all other boards. I know there's at least one guy who's done it (he converted a Space Cadet), but many really good tech guys have tried and failed :( .
12:21 Those three buttons up at the top-left are media buttons. But not music buttons. No, nothing lame like that. These are punch card media buttons!
Punch cards make damn good music! Industrial though.
Hi Chyrosran, is the case of the upper and lower parts of the keyboard made of metal?
great sound !
Wonderful video. Thank you. Subbed.
where do u get all the old keyboards? Ebay? They are ridiculously expensive tho :D
"Skip to 13:212 for a typing demonstration." :thinking:
have you ever thought about doing a typewriter style board review?
I already reviewed two typewriters! ;)
oh shit really? damn gotta go watch those now
The plug looks like an edge connector. You can get prototype PCBs with edge fingers or you can just etch your own. It would have originally hugged the edge of the computer's logic board, the computer-side connector is simply executed as protrusion in the board shape. Think Commodore 64 cartridge connector. Also like on game console game cartridges and PC extension cards but in reverse.
Unfortunately reading Hall keyboards isn't likely to be too trivial, you won't get very far with off the shelf kits, but i'm sure with some staring at the board and some tracing, it could be figured out.
I know this is out of place since we're talking about vintage stuff atm but do you happen to get a hold of some tealios switches? And is it significantly better than something like gateron blacks/vintage blacks to justify its high price point?
Yes, I have a few, but not a full board of them to test them in.
Question tho... I would love to build a battleship sized keyboard using Box navy switches... Would you be able to recommend anything regarding what case, backplate, etc?...
I think there's one very large keyboard kit available, someone decked them out with R7's. I have no idea what it was called though.
I'd love to see there be a way to actually use this
What is the keyboard with the blue keycaps called and where can I buy one in the us
SA dasher, not sure if it still available because there was a massdrop exclusive drops for them back then. you probably can find it secondhand, but good luck dealing with the price.
Nice review. I got 2 of those from Ebay recently. One was in pretty dirty condition, but now I have the black/grey and the blue/white/grey variant, so I can create even more color combinations. Haven't gotten to work it yet, thats a project for another day ;)
I know this is an old comment, but I'd LOVE to know if you ever got these working.
@@ahobimo732 Not yet, mine have some pretty damaged cases so I'll have to think what to do about that. But someone on deskthority or geekhack solved the software side and shared the code with me. I'll get to it sometime ;)
why are older keyboards so much cooler and aesthetically pleasing
If you want to read the user's manual, then you can find Section 2.4 ("Keyboard Keys and Controls") here: play.google.com/books/reader?id=i3M-AAAAYAAJ&hl=en&pg=GBS.SA2-PA10
Very cool, thank you! :)
I used a punch card machine on my first job, although it was an IBM machine it was very similar to this keyboard.
That really is awesome.
I never knew micro switch was a brand thing.
I now know what my perfect keyboard would be like. I also know that I will almost certainly never have it.
I just realized, given that the 30 billion keystroke number's been referenced before, but howTF did Honeywell ever come up with that rating? If they actually tested it back then, they'd probably still be going until now and still not hit 30 billion.
Current kb switch testing machines do about 10 million a month. I suspect they extrapolated.
That would be 120M per year, right? So ten years for 1,2 billion, one hundred years for 12 billion and 250 years for 30 billion keypresses? So basically if such a machine was starting to test one of these boards during Napoleon's time, it would still not be done?
maybe they used a mathematical extrapolation from testing many keys
I find it a bit puzzling the helicopter illustration choice in the Honeywell brochure is a Russian Mi-8.
Who knows, maybe they're supplying them as well? xD
pls review moar scissor switch keyboard
Keyboard density should really be a quantity that we use
Those caps... you could probably load them into a shotgun and kill someone with them. Love 'em! :D
Double-aught buckshot has nothing on these babies >:D .
IF I HAD a caps LOCK switch LIKE that I WOULD BE typing like THIS.
Finally got rid of those gamery keycaps on my keyboard :)
error-reset is mostly a upside down enter key lol
I was just one year old (doing boom boom in my nappy) when this keyboard came out! :-)
You're nuts. Spherical feels much better. :-)
When I think "reliability," the first thing that comes into mind are tanks.
You talk about $88 not being cheap, but the cheapest keyboard I have was $100. Where are you finding these deals?
I think the sound differences between the modern and old first gen keys most likely has the whole bunch of factors like the switch size, keycaps and the whole board makeup. Wouldn't be surprised if the old keyboard is four or six times heavier than any of the modern Ace pad boards. Really, you're not gonna find consumer level products with so much metal anymore ever since everyone started outsourcing everything.
Technically, almost all these Micro Switch keyboards are outsourced as well - MS made them third-party for a very wide range of other companies. Their most famous product was the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard.
Also, although these weigh more, the Ace Pad boards are MUCH denser as they have a solid case rather than a hollow one like this.
data is stored in the balls
Bests best
Is it just me or does that thing look like an old Atari 800?
Haha yeah I get what you mean xD .
5:31 below arrow keys ФСБ (Federal Security Service ) Direct line i guess. And near СБ (Security) to call some tovarisch policemen
Notification squad who up 💯💯💕😝
I bet somebody out there could figure out a way for it to work on modern keyboards. Lol
Eargasmix :O
Why do people keep parroting this rubbish about the modern layout coming from IBM. The DEC LK201 predates any IBM keyboard with anything approaching a modern layout by several years. Most noticably the invert T for the cursor keys, a modern num pad, function keys above the main keyboard, and the six keys abover the cursor pad. The only thing IBM didn't copy was the compose key, and dam those to hell who where responsible for this monstrous omission.
The LK201 layout is quite different from the M's. A lot of buttons are in similar positions, but they do very different things. The LK201 is universally credited with the inverse-T, though.
And yet a Model M looks far more like an LK201 than any Model F. That is if you knew nothing about keyboard history and just had graphics of the layouts and release dates you would put the Model M as descended from the LK201 and not the Model F which bares basically no resemblance to the layout of the Model M what so ever. DEC put it together and IBM only tweeked it a bit tacking out some keys that only really made sense on a terminal. Well apart from the compose key which like I said previously may they be dammed to hell for all eternity.
@@jonathanbuzzard6648 I think you're getting confused now. I didn't say the F set the standard for MODERN keyboards. It just set the standard for the time.