Some Things Should NOT be 3D Printed! - PrintFixFriday 131
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- In this star-studded #PrintFix Friday, we’ve got everything from printers getting groovy to grave warnings about the safety of using 3D prints for certain things. Not to mention, some awesome heat and #Klipper fails! Come watch!
What do you think of using 3D printing to make a gasket for a propane tank? Comment below!
Go check out the creators in this video:
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Cards:
Magneto X First Look: • Peopoly's MAGNETO X!!!...
Magneto X Speed Test: • How Fast Is A Magneto X?
Voron Build Playlist: • VORON BUILD!!!
Staying Safe While FDM Printing: • Staying Safe While FDM...
Bambu Lab A1 Recall: • Bambu Lab A1: Potentia...
0:00 Intro
1:05 Klipper Layer Adhesion Trouble: Following a recent Klipper upgrade on a @Sovol SV06+, after the first few layers the layers stop sticking together.
4:23 Extreme Layer Shifting: A Voron printer is having massive layer shifts in test prints.
9:59 When Not To 3D Print: Fellow content creator Loyal Moses teaches everyone how to blow up on Twitter... Literally and figuratively.
14:24 Delta Printer Dance: The structure of a Delta printer failed and begun wiggling the end effector back and forth on the bed.
16:51 Outro
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14:56 maybe that Delta is evolving into a 5 axis delta 😂
hmmmm have they gotten too powerful?!?
Hello Grant! AFAIK, the main goal of using magnet and steel ball joints on delta machines is that it has almost no backlash. And a side benefit is it's super easy to do maintenance.
Comparing to other joint designs like fish-eye ball joints, it doesn't save much weight. (Actually it might even be heavier)
Cheap fish-eye ball joints can have a lot of backlash and wobbles a lot. Some people fix that by adding springs within each pair of the parallel arms to pull them towards each other to eliminate the backlash in the joints.
oh, I thought it was weight, but yeah magnets and balls would have little backlash too!
Knowing that it was a case of "store's closed, and it's also 3 hours away" for context it's a temp fix cause they didn't have an alternative at the time. It's also from my understanding it's been replaced with a proper o-ring later that week.
see that context is important, could have been provided and just wasnt. That I have issues with.
I've made plenty of tpu gaskets and oddball o-rings to replace unavailable parts. I also have several ASA fuel line locking clips out on the road. I don't ever share the STL and I always tell the customer that the part is to be considered temporary and should be replaced with an alternative asap. A few of these parts are several years old and still working but I still don't feel comfortable recommending others to do it when the stakes are that high-ly flammable.
agreed
Sorry to say, but increasing driver voltage is not about wattage at all. In the rest state, the drivers work in constant current (C.C.) mode, which means that they will lower voltage to the point until the current will hit the set point (let's say 2A). So no matter how high your PSU voltage would be, the drivers will lower it to the same exact level as with lower voltage PSU, so the power (wattage) will stay the same.
What higher supply voltage allows you to do is to get higher RPM from the steppers. That works because stepper drives is a bunch of electro magnets, which have a high inductance values. And when you apply current to the electromagnet, the inductance doesn't allow for current to rise to set value (2A) immediatly - it will rise slowly, until it will saturate the magnetic material.
The higher voltage just quicker saturates the magnetic material (drive stator/rotor), which allows for quicker application of magnetic force to actually move the rotor.
Basically, more voltage - the quicker you can move the drive and have a better torque at higher speeds (although, the hold and slow speed torque will stay the same - that is influenced by current).
Oh dang, I had no idea! I had just assumed it was just a wattage thing. Good to know. Thanks for that lesson! I'll work on adjusting that communication :)
Even if you used the factory o ring, it should be checked for leaks , and frankly if it doesn't leak , it doesn't leak. My favourite is boiled sugar, used to seal water joints for couple of hundred year of continuous use
EXACTLY
Could you run a signal along the rods on the delta? Switch the signal between alternating pairs of rods to verify the connection.
Yeah, I guess you could.. interesting...
Should have cut to the dancing video of Grant and his better 3/4 during the delta printer segment. lol. ;P
Lolol
Idk about that o ring. I personally have used tpu to print seals for industrial pneumatic cylinders that are lifting 2-3 tons. They actually hold up for 10x or longer than the factory seals. Not printed tpu is used all the time as o rings, seals, and gaskets. Printed tpu has the best layer adhesion i have seen out of a material, fantastic chemical resistance, and really good temp resistance both high and low.... idk that i would be so quick to say its the worst idea.
A couple things. Were those hydraulic or pneumatic cylinders? For lifting I would assume they were hydraulic. Hydraulic fluid is a lot easier to seal than gas. Also the potential outcomes of a gas leak are a lot worse than a hydraulic leak.
I’m not saying this should not be done, anyone should consider the risks for themselves, but it’s irresponsible for an “influencer” to show this as thing to do.
@Incendium87 they are pneumatic not hydraulic. Seriously works fantastic. TPU is seriously underestimated. I understand your and grants point tho.
worst idea? no, I can think of worse, but it is irresponsible for sure.
@@JaketheJOATGOATI have also printed seals using TPU. Specifically for a gas tank and an air intake. It can work great.
Pretty sure 10:00 would anger Hank Hill. Though I do admit to using TPU to make gaskets for a lawnmower carburetor.
OMG I missed a great opportunity for a hank hill joke.. I should delete this channel! Dangit Bobby!
TPU and gas are not normally fans, but in your case, worst thing happens is an air leak and the engine runs lean a bit and turns off. As long as you are not running angry dorito rpm's here it should not melt anything.
4:45 He should check his stealthchop and spreadcycle settings too. If it is running in stealthchop, it is more likely to skip steps at higher speeds. I set my stealthchop_threshold: to 0 in Klipper so it never goes into stealthchop.
oooh good one, will recommend it!
3d printing is not appropriate for everything...reaches for roll of duct tape. ;)
lololol
I'm not too worried about a TPU o-ring in general, but I'm a bit concerned about someone that uses tinkercad knowing enough to design it properly. Need the right amount of interference that lets the fitting both compress the o-ring to seal, and also seat fully without damaging the o-ring.
tpu is not an approved material for stuff like alas.
Layer shifting on the diagonal with CoreXY, problems with one of the motors!
definitely a possibility, but one I am less likely to go after these days. Motors are pretty darn robust.
i run all my klipper printers at 240C for PLA.
20-24mm3/s flow rates with safety factor (20 on N4Max, 24 on SV07Plus).
K1 Max i just run at defaults on creality print ... it works perfectly, so why bother lol. i think it's setup for 23mm3/s out of box for ABS. I only use it for ABS.
yeah, more heat allows you to push more plastic :)
I disagree with you about the o-ring. Polyurethane o-rings have been used for decades in systems like hydraulics and pneumatics and are fuel and oil resistant. They have excellent wear resistance. They usually have better cold weather resistance than neoprene o-rings too. A 3d-printed o-ring may not be as precise as injection molded, cast, or millable polyurethane o-rings, but its not like an order of magnitude off and is more than capable of holding a few hundred psi. If the seal passes the soap and water test, I don't think there is a cause for concern.
I would agree, on something that ISNT propane. Just keep spares in stock and this issue goes away. It is dangerous.
Looking at some chemical resistance charts, TPU and Propane might seem like they might be compatible, however it's very much dependent on what is in the TPU, there are different base materials used to make TPU, which one is a rather important factor. In an controlled industrial setting where you know exactly what you are using, and qualified chemical engineers have looked at the material data and signed off on it, perhaps it could work as an O-ring for that application, however what exactly that goes into the average 3d printer TPU filament, from consumer grade vendor to vendor, is anyone's guess and I certainly wouldn't want to run the chance that it just might be the kind that isn't very resistant to propane. Certainly not in an advisory position on the internet. Go buy some proper O-rings.
Yeah, I agree, not sure I would trust it, buy the right thing, and buy spares!
Fellow 3D printer and content creator here, just subbed , great video.
glad you liked it!
Delta printer yes I had a tool head catch and the arm broke off and flew across the room and hit me in the face. Flsun sent a replacement in a week
Glad you are okay!
Cats Pantograph seems always to fit a nose. 😂
lolol
10:19 thank yo, i told him about safety issue on this and called him irresponsible as 3d content creators. Some how i got attacked and some how i started getting accused for being anti 3d printed gun...
So it is likely political bait.
I dont get it.. sorry that happened.. people are dumb
@@3DMusketeers Too many trolls in the 3DP2A community, also makes them a target for legislators, law enforcement, etc.
The voron layer shift problem could be input shaper I gess.
Input shaper have a major effect on acceleration/layershift, as well stepper driver (chopper) tuning.
oh dang, that is a great idea! I will let JK know!
I'm not very fond of CANBUS myself. You delete some wiring but create another SPOF
SPOF? I feel like I should know that acronym
@@3DMusketeers Single Point Of Failure
gotcha, thank you, I should have known that
@3dMusketeer "My dog Sam eats purple flowers"
I am not aware of the reference
@@3DMusketeers Grant, it's from a 1971 song by Tommy James called "Draggin' The Line". I guess I may be showing my age, and maybe not everybody appreciates classic rock, lol.
Lyrics
Makin' a livin' the old hard way
Takin' and givin' my day by day
I dig snow and rain and bright sunshine
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
My dog Sam eats purple flowers
We ain't got much but what we got's ours
We dig snow and rain and bright sunshine
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
I feel fine, I'm talkin' 'bout peace of mind
I'm gonna take my time
I'm gettin' the good sign
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
Lovin' the free and feelin' spirit
Of huggin' a tree when you get near it
Diggin' the snow and rain and bright sunshine
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
Draggin' the line (draggin' the line)
I feel fine, I'm talkin' 'bout peace of mind
I'm gonna take my time
I'm gettin' the good sign
@@3DMusketeers I am referencing Victoria eating flowers at the end of your video.
@@3DMusketeers Victoria was eating flowers at the end of your video.
no, double the voltage, quadruple the wattage
My example showed double, but that is often ture when you are not current limiting.
Back in the early days of 3d printing, before PLA was even generally available, various parts for SCUBA systems were printed, vapor fogged, and then were hydro tested and certified in exactly the same manner that a regular machined part would be. It's a known thing that 3d printed parts on hobbyist systems can be pressure tight and mission critical, however, they need to be qualified exactly the same way the traditional part would be, and have the material failure modes taken into account.
More importantly than just the fact the seal is 3d printed(that's done all the freaking time in all sorts of applications), is the unknown information about the polymer compatibility with propane at both elevated and sub-zero temps, along with rapid temp swings through that range. Liquid propane boils at -37f, if your seals won't handle that, they should never be used as part of a propane system unless they are fully protected by at least one inspected and certified regulator that is designed to stop liquid propane from passing, and even then should not be used anywhere close to the source of the liquid propane. And 3d printing filament is seldom just whatever the headline polymer on the spool is, so unless you have an opinion from a fully trained chemist certifying that that polymer alloy is compatible with the compounds in play, you should not introduce it.
Seals are specific, the seals for my paintball tanks are designed for sub-zero temps and rapid temp swings, along with CO2 gas. I doubt I could actually swap them for a generic unit successfully, unless I were to use Viton seals, or another effectively super seal.
Viton would have been a good suggestion too.. But yeah.. too many variables out there to trust TPU IMO.
Loyal should not have shared that at all it was irresponsible and his response was enough to earn a block so I don't see his constant attention seeking anymore.
we choose who we follow :)
Next up.. RUclipsr 3d prints new seals for their car brakes
I mean, Proper Printing did make a wheel for his car back in the day..
Yea the propane tank thing is definitely something that needs a HUGE disclaimer. Now I wonder if I can 3d print an enclosure for a nuclear isotope....hmmm....might have to ask for help, will keep you post.................channel goes dead.
Actually, using the Tungsten filament from Prusa, some isotopes could be pretty well contained...
Matterhackers also sells a bismuth-infused ABS filament specifically intended for radiation shielding. Which I'm sure is a peach to print with, given that ABS usually likes to print in the 240-260˚C range and bismuth starts melting at 271-272˚C.