I had a seller at an antique store give me the detailed history of a leather knife sheath, and the historical importance of the maker, who was quite famous in the 'Old West' around the turn of the century. As I looked at *MY* maker's stamp on the sheath, I just smiled at the story...and left without revealing the sheath was, at most, only 6 months old. I'm not sure if she ever sold it, but I got quite the chuckle out of the artificial provenance. Sadly, that level of 'embellishment' severely tainted the proffered value of everything else in the store...which I think fits very neatly with one of the points Philip made.
Such a temptation to join that "like-to-be-the-old-company-with-history"... And what a relief to know that you took a right way to go further. Thank you very much, Philip, you are good man. 😊
True integrity seems hard to find. I know people who lie just for the sake of lying, all while stating their business is ‘integrity first’. It’s sad, but thank you for sharing. A fair dose of skepticism is a good thing!
This is a very serious point and a superb lesson for young people. I've been in small business for 30 plus years. Somehow sometime the liars are found out and the word spreads like a forest fire in my experience.
Philip, that was one of my favourite videos from you! Nowadays, I am a hobby leather craftsperson. But, for more than twenty years, I worked as a brand consultant at one of the leading companies in the world, and one of the fundamental criteria for the success of a brand is, as you say - the story. But there must be truth in the story. I often do as you did, trying to be an 'investigative journalist' probing staff in shops about the brand and history, and can often detect if there is a truthful story or an invented one. I was also pleased to hear that they approached you to head the re-birth of the brand; it must have been such an honour. But it gladdened me even more when you explained why you turned it down. When I worked in the branding industry, there was always a mantra that we continued to repeat to ourselves (and to our clients) when facing story-building, which was: it takes years of constant growth to become a solid and known brand, but it requires just a slight misstep in marketing to ruin all that you try to build up over time. As soon as you start to invent or embellish your credentials, the fall is near. /Jan
I took a class from a guy from Spain who had been doing leather all his life and the trade was passed down from three generations. He talked about the way the tan leather and using trees from the area as well as other natural materials. It sounds like the leather is quite different in these areas due to the natural tanning process the used over a hundred years..
Thank you! I love stories and I dislike telling stories too far. I like the history and truth of things. And something I learned in my sells of pens and leather goods that when I created my brand, it was integrity as #1 of my brand. I realized early on helping others in leatherwork that I started talking about tools, looking at history of the tools, I realized I had to do allot of studying and research. And it matters with the truth of the tool and how it came to be because it reflects on the why of the technique and how to use it. I realized it was for me to enguage in a witch hunt for the truth and the internet only goes so far. Thank you for this.
Owned by foreigners now, trading on the history of the original company and not the current owners; might be interesting to see if the current range is as well- and beautifully- made?
Great episode. I find it difficult to believe that my own background and choices could be interesting to people and potential clients.. So I feel ackward when telling them about a product I've made, it feels like I'm trying to push "unnecessary information" to validate the product/price. But I know they are very relevant and I'm trying to change my mindset. Telling a (true) story of our brands is indeed very important and what gives people a sense of connection and grounding. Otherwise it just feels like it's made somewhere, by someone, therefore, a lot more irrelevant and disposable.
Thank you. Yes it can seem challenging. I think just talking about what you love and coming from a place of passion, helps the interaction to feel less 'salesy'.
Such a great topic to discuss. There are so many avenues we can go down. From truth behind the brand, materials and skills used to our intention and passion that drives our creations. It reminds me of what I talk about with my wife when it comes to her wildlife paintings. Sometimes the interest of the potential customer is not only the subject matter of the piece but the connection there is between the artist and the subject matter. The story behind the artwork that can capture the customer's heart and makes a connection. i believe she needs to include more of her feelings and connections with what she creates in order for the customers to connect better. Likewise when we create our leather goods we need to understand that from the materials used to the skills mastered and the end result created the client has to feel our PASSION coming through the piece and when speaking with them. Sorry I can ramble at times. Again great podcast.
Thank you Roger! I wholeheartedly agree. Sometimes clients feed off our passion surrounding what we create. I often wonder if people who lack passion in their own lives, draw from the passion of a creator. In a sense, buying passion vs finding it for themselves. Just something I've had rattling around in my head.
For myself, stories have the potential to establish connections, lend credibility as well as producing an emotional relevance to something, essentially making it real. These are all powerful things and to be mislead with story would be the ultimate betrayal.
I am liking what I am seeing from your videos, not just of your goods but from what I can see of your character. You had gained my subscription a few days ago for this very reason. It seems that integrity is lacking these days. Well done sir. BTW, I was intrigued by the rougher you used in your benchtop strop video. Would you be so kind as to mention what that was?
Ahh H J Cave. Interesting discussion, the further you get from the source, the more the truth is watered down. And when that source is then bought and all that becomes is memory of the truth, well... It's the story thats valuable, because the truth can't speak for itself any more.
This is a full time job. Branding, marketing, stories, even packaging etc is a job and a half, and there's very well paid people out there who do it. No time. I can either make, or sell, or do this :)
Hi, loved the video! At the end of the video, you were talking about hardware. I found it really hard to find UK-made hardware. Even when I found a source in the UK and questioned them after buying what I thought was quality brass hardware, they told me it's an import... Do you know any place that sells quality hardware made in the UK?
Yes, I recommend the place you previously bought from, AE. You have to request made in England when you order. Though they don't produce everything they sell in their foundry, so it may be worth asking them what's UK made beforehand.
The important part of the history of a brand or an item to me is quality. I will pay extra to know that something has been tried and trued through craftsmanship and time. Someone blowing smoke up my butt is not the kind of experience I want when spending hundreds or thousands for a luxury good. In the late 90's, I was in London, and was able to purchase some custom shirts from Trumbull and Asher. This Spanish woman who had worked there for a long time helped me and was so gracious, it made the whole experience so enjoyable, I was so pleased to fork over a couple thousand dollars. Some of these brands just want to sell you, not help you. I was in my late 30's and an American tourist who had never been fitted for anything. She made me feel special. When I got those shirts, I had never had anything fit me like that since. In fact, I still have her card, though I'm sure she no longer is working there. Ever since that encounter, I understood what bespoke meant and I've gone that way ever since. The latest fad is great, however, a established name must stand for something or how do you know what you're buying next. I'm glad you had the integrity to walk away from that guy and I think the salesperson didn't know crap.
Great story! Turnbull & Asser are a superb company. Along with a bespoke suit, I'd love to have a couple tailored shirts. Half of it is the experience I think. Thank you for sharing
I could have respected an answer of "it seems some of it is just hearsay" far more than one of "Does it matter?". Why would you work for someone who thinks truth doesn't matter? "We're happy to ask you to join our global company as the Executive Design Consultant"......"Actually I meant we'll ask you what colour walls the meeting rooms should have".......
In Australia the real estate industry recruits heavily from the congenital liar group. What always amazes me is that they are so bad at it the adage "practise makes perfect" does not seem to apply. The second thing is that when you catch them out there is not a shred of guilt or shame. I'm sorry but anytime money is involved it will attract the morally deficient and people have to approach all claims with a dose of care.
But, your insertion that "eventually you will be found out" is a wink and a nod to approval. To come here and say... "this is a lie, and this is the liar!' is much more admirable. The sin of Omission is as bad as the sin of COmission. A shame...all of it. But to allow the lies to continue is bad.
Context is key here if you listen to my full message. I'm saying that, even if you're in it for the money alone, eventually you will be found out. Meaning, regardless of your morals, it is a losing game to base your brand on lies, or even half truths. Here I am also talking to people who are comfortable lying to make a sale, and actively discouraging the practice by explaining why it's bad for business too. If I didn't include that part, I am simply preaching to the converted, as people with good morals weren't going to lie to make sales anyway.
I stop being interested the moment a salesperson tells me something I know is not true or accurate even if it’s a minor thing that doesn’t affect the product itself. It turns me off equally wether they speak from a place of ignorance or speak from a place of lies.
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was married to a professional salesman. He was working at a luggage store and managed to butt dial me while talking to a customer. I waited on the line to see if he would realize his mistake and heard him telling the customer that he played college football too. He said he went to the University of Oklahoma and a whole bunch of other complete and utter BS. When he got home and I was serving dinner, I asked when he had been a student at OU. He looked at me, puzzled, so I explained, and his response was, "I'll say whatever it takes to make a sell." Needless to say, we aren't still married cause I realized I couldn't trust a bloody thing he said. 😊
Yes it always matters. I think every industry can probably give a similar example, where someone is embellishing a story in order to sell something or justifying a price. But in the end I think the products that are built with a heritage to a standard will stand the test of time. Similarly, there will always be a snake oil salesmen ready to sell whatever story they need to in order to collect some coin.
i currently own a pet shop and make my own goods i.e. collars, harnesses and i use a story style narrative to sell products but never make stuff up a quick google search and busted. Prior to this i was contractor and we're all a bunch of BS'ers so can always sniff out a liar. edit: i do get hardware from abbey so borrowing the royal warrant line cheers
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I had a seller at an antique store give me the detailed history of a leather knife sheath, and the historical importance of the maker, who was quite famous in the 'Old West' around the turn of the century. As I looked at *MY* maker's stamp on the sheath, I just smiled at the story...and left without revealing the sheath was, at most, only 6 months old. I'm not sure if she ever sold it, but I got quite the chuckle out of the artificial provenance. Sadly, that level of 'embellishment' severely tainted the proffered value of everything else in the store...which I think fits very neatly with one of the points Philip made.
I think this has to be the best comment I've ever read! 😂😂😂 I don't think I could have held that in! Wow, simply unbelievable. Some people.
Hahaha this is awesome
I love salesmen like that because I’ll call them out. The phrase “I’m sorry but that’s bollocks and you just lost a big sale” seems to work for me
Savage. I love it!
Such a temptation to join that "like-to-be-the-old-company-with-history"... And what a relief to know that you took a right way to go further. Thank you very much, Philip, you are good man. 😊
Thank you Selmira! 😊
True integrity seems hard to find. I know people who lie just for the sake of lying, all while stating their business is ‘integrity first’. It’s sad, but thank you for sharing. A fair dose of skepticism is a good thing!
Thank you!
It sounds like the salesman was lying but definitely to the wrong person!
Haha! Yes, you can never tell who you're talking to.
oh, yes. lies will always catch up with you. i respect you for sticking to your principles despite the temptation to be part of an important brand.
Thank you Lindsey 😊
How refreshing to find someone in this day and age who values integrity over fame and money. So rare. Bless you
Thank you
This is a very serious point and a superb lesson for young people. I've been in small business for 30 plus years. Somehow sometime the liars are found out and the word spreads like a forest fire in my experience.
Agreed. Lies are short term gains in exchange for a long term loss
Philip, that was one of my favourite videos from you!
Nowadays, I am a hobby leather craftsperson. But, for more than twenty years, I worked as a brand consultant at one of the leading companies in the world, and one of the fundamental criteria for the success of a brand is, as you say - the story. But there must be truth in the story.
I often do as you did, trying to be an 'investigative journalist' probing staff in shops about the brand and history, and can often detect if there is a truthful story or an invented one.
I was also pleased to hear that they approached you to head the re-birth of the brand; it must have been such an honour. But it gladdened me even more when you explained why you turned it down.
When I worked in the branding industry, there was always a mantra that we continued to repeat to ourselves (and to our clients) when facing story-building, which was: it takes years of constant growth to become a solid and known brand, but it requires just a slight misstep in marketing to ruin all that you try to build up over time. As soon as you start to invent or embellish your credentials, the fall is near.
/Jan
Thank you for sharing that Jan, that was a really interesting read. I agree, there has to be truth to the story to back up the claims.
Your a very interesting person to listen too. And your right once they find out WHO you are thats WHO you are forever!
Thank you Frank
Hi from Greece mentor!
For me, the story behind each product is more important than the product itself
Especially with books ;D Yes, story is very important!
I took a class from a guy from Spain who had been doing leather all his life and the trade was passed down from three generations. He talked about the way the tan leather and using trees from the area as well as other natural materials. It sounds like the leather is quite different in these areas due to the natural tanning process the used over a hundred years..
Thank you for sharing Scott. I bet that leather smelt great!
Thank you! I love stories and I dislike telling stories too far. I like the history and truth of things. And something I learned in my sells of pens and leather goods that when I created my brand, it was integrity as #1 of my brand. I realized early on helping others in leatherwork that I started talking about tools, looking at history of the tools, I realized I had to do allot of studying and research. And it matters with the truth of the tool and how it came to be because it reflects on the why of the technique and how to use it. I realized it was for me to enguage in a witch hunt for the truth and the internet only goes so far. Thank you for this.
Thank you for sharing your experiences Esther.
Love your work! Thanks for your good info
You're most welcome! 😊
This is so true and something I teach to my leather craft students as well! Consider the source!!!
Absolutely!
Owned by foreigners now, trading on the history of the original company and not the current owners; might be interesting to see if the current range is as well- and beautifully- made?
Just seen that. How very sad. Happens to the best of them.
Awesome brother! I love the wood box as well, I love civil war antique stuff. Have you had it appraised?
Thanks! No I haven't. I think you can still get them on eBay etc, seems to be plenty around. It's more for the memories.
Great episode. I find it difficult to believe that my own background and choices could be interesting to people and potential clients.. So I feel ackward when telling them about a product I've made, it feels like I'm trying to push "unnecessary information" to validate the product/price. But I know they are very relevant and I'm trying to change my mindset. Telling a (true) story of our brands is indeed very important and what gives people a sense of connection and grounding. Otherwise it just feels like it's made somewhere, by someone, therefore, a lot more irrelevant and disposable.
Thank you. Yes it can seem challenging. I think just talking about what you love and coming from a place of passion, helps the interaction to feel less 'salesy'.
The truth matters! Period.
👏
Interesting points raised!
Thank you Zander
Você é formidável 😊
I appreciate it 👍
Such a great topic to discuss. There are so many avenues we can go down. From truth behind the brand, materials and skills used to our intention and passion that drives our creations. It reminds me of what I talk about with my wife when it comes to her wildlife paintings. Sometimes the interest of the potential customer is not only the subject matter of the piece but the connection there is between the artist and the subject matter. The story behind the artwork that can capture the customer's heart and makes a connection. i believe she needs to include more of her feelings and connections with what she creates in order for the customers to connect better. Likewise when we create our leather goods we need to understand that from the materials used to the skills mastered and the end result created the client has to feel our PASSION coming through the piece and when speaking with them. Sorry I can ramble at times. Again great podcast.
Thank you Roger! I wholeheartedly agree. Sometimes clients feed off our passion surrounding what we create. I often wonder if people who lack passion in their own lives, draw from the passion of a creator. In a sense, buying passion vs finding it for themselves. Just something I've had rattling around in my head.
For myself, stories have the potential to establish connections, lend credibility as well as producing an emotional relevance to something, essentially making it real. These are all powerful things and to be mislead with story would be the ultimate betrayal.
Absolutely
Hmm this is soo interesting, thanks for sharing. I think I need one of those awls now 😊
Thanks for tuning in! It's a fantastic awl 👍
I’m still using the awl handles made by a fellow student when we were at Cordwainers, late 70s early 80s 😳😂
I am liking what I am seeing from your videos, not just of your goods but from what I can see of your character. You had gained my subscription a few days ago for this very reason. It seems that integrity is lacking these days. Well done sir. BTW, I was intrigued by the rougher you used in your benchtop strop video. Would you be so kind as to mention what that was?
Thank you Joe! Yes, I think that would be the the roughing tool by NT cutter. If you Google it you should find a few online sellers.
love to listen to your storys 🙂
Thank you Ilka! 😊
Thank you. I enjoyed the history and looking into the information of the various designers you mentioned as well as who inspired them.
Glad you enjoyed it Mike! 👍
Ahh H J Cave.
Interesting discussion, the further you get from the source, the more the truth is watered down.
And when that source is then bought and all that becomes is memory of the truth, well... It's the story thats valuable, because the truth can't speak for itself any more.
Thank you for your thoughts. I can't confirm the brand, but I agree with what you're saying.
This is a full time job. Branding, marketing, stories, even packaging etc is a job and a half, and there's very well paid people out there who do it.
No time. I can either make, or sell, or do this :)
Hi, loved the video! At the end of the video, you were talking about hardware. I found it really hard to find UK-made hardware. Even when I found a source in the UK and questioned them after buying what I thought was quality brass hardware, they told me it's an import... Do you know any place that sells quality hardware made in the UK?
Yes, I recommend the place you previously bought from, AE. You have to request made in England when you order. Though they don't produce everything they sell in their foundry, so it may be worth asking them what's UK made beforehand.
What brand? I'm not British
Sorry, I don't mention them for legal reasons
That is wild. Just you telling the story about the awl made me want one; even though I have no connection to the region.
Ha! The importance of story telling 👍
The important part of the history of a brand or an item to me is quality. I will pay extra to know that something has been tried and trued through craftsmanship and time. Someone blowing smoke up my butt is not the kind of experience I want when spending hundreds or thousands for a luxury good. In the late 90's, I was in London, and was able to purchase some custom shirts from Trumbull and Asher. This Spanish woman who had worked there for a long time helped me and was so gracious, it made the whole experience so enjoyable, I was so pleased to fork over a couple thousand dollars. Some of these brands just want to sell you, not help you. I was in my late 30's and an American tourist who had never been fitted for anything. She made me feel special. When I got those shirts, I had never had anything fit me like that since. In fact, I still have her card, though I'm sure she no longer is working there. Ever since that encounter, I understood what bespoke meant and I've gone that way ever since. The latest fad is great, however, a established name must stand for something or how do you know what you're buying next. I'm glad you had the integrity to walk away from that guy and I think the salesperson didn't know crap.
Great story! Turnbull & Asser are a superb company. Along with a bespoke suit, I'd love to have a couple tailored shirts. Half of it is the experience I think. Thank you for sharing
Listened to you from Miami, FL 🤙🏽
Thanks for your support! Would love to visit Florida for diving 👍
@LeathercraftMasterclass interesting! Are you certified? My wife is a diver as well, You happen to have a diving channel?
I could have respected an answer of "it seems some of it is just hearsay" far more than one of "Does it matter?". Why would you work for someone who thinks truth doesn't matter? "We're happy to ask you to join our global company as the Executive Design Consultant"......"Actually I meant we'll ask you what colour walls the meeting rooms should have".......
Exactly that!
Nicole Rudolph just covered on her channel how many claims associated with the Chanel brand aren't actually true.
Really? I'll check that out later tonight. Cheers!
Interesting
In Australia the real estate industry recruits heavily from the congenital liar group. What always amazes me is that they are so bad at it the adage "practise makes perfect" does not seem to apply. The second thing is that when you catch them out there is not a shred of guilt or shame. I'm sorry but anytime money is involved it will attract the morally deficient and people have to approach all claims with a dose of care.
Yes. I think that group comes from a place where they aren't really bothered about being found out, or called on their lies. Quite sociopathic.
But, your insertion that "eventually you will be found out" is a wink and a nod to approval. To come here and say... "this is a lie, and this is the liar!' is much more admirable. The sin of Omission is as bad as the sin of COmission. A shame...all of it. But to allow the lies to continue is bad.
Context is key here if you listen to my full message. I'm saying that, even if you're in it for the money alone, eventually you will be found out. Meaning, regardless of your morals, it is a losing game to base your brand on lies, or even half truths. Here I am also talking to people who are comfortable lying to make a sale, and actively discouraging the practice by explaining why it's bad for business too. If I didn't include that part, I am simply preaching to the converted, as people with good morals weren't going to lie to make sales anyway.
I stop being interested the moment a salesperson tells me something I know is not true or accurate even if it’s a minor thing that doesn’t affect the product itself. It turns me off equally wether they speak from a place of ignorance or speak from a place of lies.
I thought it was just me! I feel exactly the same way
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was married to a professional salesman. He was working at a luggage store and managed to butt dial me while talking to a customer. I waited on the line to see if he would realize his mistake and heard him telling the customer that he played college football too. He said he went to the University of Oklahoma and a whole bunch of other complete and utter BS. When he got home and I was serving dinner, I asked when he had been a student at OU. He looked at me, puzzled, so I explained, and his response was, "I'll say whatever it takes to make a sell." Needless to say, we aren't still married cause I realized I couldn't trust a bloody thing he said. 😊
Oh wow, that's not good! I'd be too paranoid that I'd forgotten what I lied about lol
Yes it always matters. I think every industry can probably give a similar example, where someone is embellishing a story in order to sell something or justifying a price. But in the end I think the products that are built with a heritage to a standard will stand the test of time. Similarly, there will always be a snake oil salesmen ready to sell whatever story they need to in order to collect some coin.
Yeah, I totally agree
i currently own a pet shop and make my own goods i.e. collars, harnesses and i use a story style narrative to sell products but never make stuff up a quick google search and busted. Prior to this i was contractor and we're all a bunch of BS'ers so can always sniff out a liar.
edit: i do get hardware from abbey so borrowing the royal warrant line cheers
Haha, thanks for sharing that story :D
For some people it doesn't matter. But they just buy names.
😂 in my case i would ve told him i am a leathercrafter to save him all the emberessment
Tempting, very tempting!