Evidences of the Book of Abraham: Historicity
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- The Book of Abraham is a book of sacred scripture for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This short but fascinating text has attracted considerable controversy ever since its publication in 1842. One hotly debated question is whether this text purporting to be “the writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt” has any evidence for its ancient authenticity and historicity. Asked another way, is there any evidence in favor of the historical claims made in the Book of Abraham?
This video explores some of the amazing evidence scholars have uncovered that bolsters confidence in the historical credibility of the Book of Abraham. It goes chapter by chapter through the Book of Abraham and points out sometimes minute features of the text that find plausible confirmation from the ancient world. This includes cultural, geographical, and linguistic details in the text that converge nicely with evidence unknown in Joseph Smith’s day.
While the three facsimiles of the Book of Abraham and Joseph Smith’s translation method to produce the text are important issues to also consider, they will be covered in future videos. Viewers wanting to learn more about these topics are encouraged to check out a Gospel Topics essay published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints titled “Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham” and a recent book by Egyptologist John Gee titled An Introduction to the Book of Abraham.
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Documentation for the claims made in this video can be found in the accompanying blog post (link below). Additional evidence for the historicity of the Book of Abraham and other study resources (including an extensive bibliography) can be read at Pearl of Great Price Central (link below).
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Love the comments. Purely ad hominem. Absolutely no real refutation of anything presented. That's how you know they've lost. Keep up the good work 🙏🏻
@harry Why does it matter if it's Arabic? They're related languages. It's like saying that "kin" and "genus" can't be related because Modern English didn't exist at the same time as Latin. Also if you understand etymology, not every root word of a particular proto-language manifests in every one of it's daughter languages.
It's also unclear whether Abraham was actually speaking "Hebrew". And it certainly didn't exist as it does today or it even generations later during Moses' time. So your argument again works against itself.
As far as your whole "qlb should be klb" argument...have you ever seen Quran written as "Koran"? Older forms even include "Alcoran" from "al-Qur'ān". Or the word Kabballah (from qbl)? It's an anglicization. Most other languages adapt spelling to conform with the native orthography; Danish: Koran; Finnish: Koraani; French: le Coran; Japanese: クルアーン (kuruān); Greek: Κοράνιο (koranio); etc. etc. You might argue that "Qolob" would be more accurate but....ok? Anglicization can take a few forms, and especially the early 19th century spelling norms were still being established with the Book of Abraham published less than a decade after the original Webster's Dictionary (which spelled "Quran" as "Koran" or "Alkoran", btw, rendering "Q" as "K").
@harry I replied in your comment. You didn't refute it very well lol
@@scaevola99 Actually there's strong linguistic evidence for Proto-Semitic predating Abraham's times. There's a whole list of reconstructed roots on Wikipedia that are known or attested.
And yes languages change over time but they follow specific rules for phonetic and semantic shifts. There are reconstructions dating to Abraham's time, and these languages are related to Egyptian through Afroasiatic. So while this of course isn't solid proof of anything, it is not unlikely they used this root...words like this often change but they don't randomly appear from nowhere.
I’ve looked at some of the comments here, and I thought about possibly challenging some of them but I’m not going to bother anymore because there are some people that have such strong, cognitive dissonance that you could actually show them something that was physical proof and put it in their hand, and they would still tell you it was fake and wasn’t real and wouldn’t believe it because they don’t want to.
This is something I’ve seen especially over the last few years ever since Covid. People cannot, and will not accept certain things because they can’t deal with it. They can’t grapple with the truth or the reality of something or they simply choose to believe that something is a fable or a fairytale or a lie so that is what they will see. People often create any kind of narrative in their mind to justify their own position no matter what kind of evidence you show them.
This is true on both sides of the arguments in this comment section. There are some people who are members of the church who cannot see the truth, and there are other people who are not that will not accept that anything that members of the church say is true. So they each justified their own existence and their own position and their own opinion by discounting anything that anyone else has to say that is different from their own perspective. this is foolish and arrogant on both sides… you can lead a horse to Water but you cannot make him think.
I've found that the moment you try pointing something even minor out to most mormons - they go into argue mode. They're not listening to what you're saying. They're thinking "what plausible reason can i come up with on the spot to explain that". And if they can think of something. That does it for them. They will not go and research if that guess is right. The fact they can think of an explanation for what is wrong is good enough. 😔
@@picklesadventures if you’re operating under the assumption that all of them are wrong and none of them know what they’re talking about this would be true. The question is… How do you know that what they believe is wrong? There’s a lot of things we have yet to discover in this world and things are being discovered all the time that are reinventing or I should say… Correcting what we have been talked already about human history. so who is to say that some of these things that are in these books are not true? Anyone is welcome to have an opinion, but it does not mean that it is necessarily an informed opinion, and it certainly does not mean that expressing an opinion means that you are right and what you are saying is a fact.. I have seen things that defy, logical or scientific explanation, yet they are there.
@@csluau5913 You realised that answer was like.... the absolute proof of what I just said? 😂🤦🙄 That was amazing. Thank you.
Cognitive dissonance is ignoring my testimony from the holy Ghost that the book of Mormon is true...all bc a little read book, the book of Abraham has not been well translated on the facsimiles...silly to leave the church over this!!!
I am not an expert on the Book of Abraham translation, nor am I an expert on all the different discussions, both pro and against the Book of Abraham. But what I do know is, having read the BofA many times I find nothing in it which I consider evil or corrupt. Just as with the Book of Mormon, there is a lot about the Book of Abraham we can not detail by using only scientific means. This does not, however, mean that Latter-day Saints who believe in the BofA and BofM are anti-science or that we are somehow using, as some say, mental gymnastics, to believe in these books. It simply means our confirmation of the truths of these books comes in large part from the Holy Spirit as recorded in Moroni 10:3-5 in the Book of Mormon.
I do not fault critics of the Church who are honest in their critiques of the BofA or BofM. I do not fault Egyptologists who have likewise found Joseph Smith’s translation of the BofA to be problematic. The reason being is that often, these people are use to finding evidence by what they can see, touch and read. It is like solving a puzzle for them and in most cases, there is nothing at all wrong with that. That is how physical science should be conducted. But when you don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle, using only scientific tools or scientific means to solve a problem can not fully answer all the questions. That is when the Holy Ghost can answer the questions which science can not. Jesus taught this to his disciples in John 14:26.
Just because I don’t have an exact blueprint of how the earth was created, from the mountains to the oceans doesn’t mean I should abandon my belief in God. Just because I don’t know exactly how stars and planets came into being doesn’t mean I should throw away my belief in a supreme creator and instead assume everything simply came about by the laws of chance.
Perhaps there are those who believe in their heart of hearts that spirituality doesn’t exist. As for me, I just believe differently, especially in a time like today, with social media, 24/7 news and an Internet flooded with opinions coming from every direction. There are so many voices saying, “I’m right and they’re wrong,” or “I have the truth and no one else does,” or “Don’t believe those people over there, believe me.” It is becoming more and more important to receive council and guidance from the one and only source of all truth, and that is the Holy Ghost; that still small voice which whispers truth to both our minds and our hearts.
Amen, Amen and Amen.
The warm fuzzies aren’t proof of anything. If they are, then I guess Santa Clause and Easter Bunny exist, the earth is flat, the moon landing never happened. God told Jim Jones followers to kill themselves and David Koresh, Warren Jeffs are true prophets.
@@buckweaver4584 I’m just curious to know, do you consider yourself a Christian? If so, I’m curious to ask, how do you interpret John 14:26 in the New Testament? How does the Holy Spirit communicate to people? If you are not a Christian, you need to understand that the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit communicates in a variety of different ways than mere “warm fuzzies.”
@@clarklarsen1973
How do you know if it’s the holy spirit? I’m sure if you asked the 911 hijackers, they would tell you the holy spirit confirmed their desires. What tools do you use to verify it is indeed the holy spirit? Would the Holy Spirit change its mind? Contradict scripture? Tell different people different “truths”? In John 14:26 what do you think the “things I have said” means? Wouldn’t said be past tense?
@@buckweaver4584 The Holy Spirit works in many different ways. For me, it works in instructing me to do things which did not always seem apparent to me at first. I can think of times in my life when I will think of something positive or important to tell another person which I hadn’t thought of until a few seconds before. Other times I can think of moments in my life when I felt compelled not to go to certain places or to watch certain movies or programs online. Do I think such impressions are exclusive to members of my church? I do not. Do I think the Holy Spirit helps people of many beliefs? Yes I do. At the same time, I also believe God teaches people through the gift of judging right from wrong. This is perhaps where you and I would likely have different viewpoints. Of course I am sure you believe God always wants us to know right from wrong. Nevertheless In my view, the teachings of my church speak logic and the true word of God.
I’ve been asked many time in my life “If you were presented with facts that showed your church was false, wouldn’t you want to know it?” My reply to this is, “Yes, provided I am also shown what gospel or religion has the absolute truth.”
That second response however seems to throw a lot of people off because while people who want to convince me that Mormonism is false will say, “It doesn’t matter what Christian denomination you follow just so long as it isn’t Mormonism,” these same people appear to give different answers about other denominations or beliefs. For example, Is Catholicism Christian? Some say yes, some say NO! Is Orthodox Christianity a truly Christian Church? Again, some say Yes. Some say, No! What about televangelists such as Kenneth Copeland, Creplo Dollar, Benny Hinn or Bob Larson? Some Christians say these men are teaching true Christianity, but others say they are teaching heresy. This is where my mind tells me, Unless someone points out the true road, without any kind of personal opinion or reinterpretation of scriptures I will continue to trust the path I am on with the spiritual promptings and impressions I have received. I don’t know if that answered your question or not, but that’s just how I see it.
I may be wrong but my feeling is, within the next few years the leadership of the Church will be discussing the Book of Abraham in more detail, since this is clearly one topic which people both in and out of the Church struggle with. I don't know if this will come by means of additional essays on the Book of Abraham, specific General Conference talks or a Church book similar to the "Saints" books which gives more detailed information on the Book of Abraham. Nevertheless, I do believe the brethren will address this in greater detail sometime in the near future.
David Holdstock What I find interesting about your comment is, predictions like yours have been made before. LDS critics like Shawn McCreedy were predicting over a decade ago that the Church would begin to abandon the Book of Mormon. But the Church hasn’t. I remember other critics predicting that the Church will be forced to give women the priesthood like the men and abandon teachings like emphasis on marriage and the nuclear family. As of 2020, these have not happened. Finally, there were comments made back in 2013 by the late Grant Palmer who claimed to have met with an LDS general authority who told him, among other things, that the LDS Church was on the brink of a massive implosion. I would have more faith and even concern over some of these predictions by Church critics if I could see any proof of them happening
It’s been addressed. We know what it is. It’s not a mystery. Just like the kinder-hook plates aren’t a mystery. Joseph Smith tried to con people in to believing he could translate the funerary documents. He didn’t. He couldn’t. He made up some BS not thinking that someday his BS would be revealed. Well, to people of sound mind anyway.
@@clarklarsen1973
They won’t abandon it, they’ll just continue to change it. The Morman religion will evolve to keep the money flowing. You can count on it. Take blacks in the priesthood for example. You remember, when god changed his mind.
Should listen to some of Bruce H Porters discussions on the Book of Abraham. And no, the Church won't be distancing its self from it.. nor do they need to provide greater detail as the greater details can be found within the temples.
@@boturner8328
You sound like a good subject. Hint: maybe search some outside information to confirm truthfulness. The warm fuzzies and church doctrine and dogma can’t help you with that. The truth can stand up to all examination. Truth tellers encourage exploration of all available information. Those dealing in deception and control work hard to control narratives and information sources. Please explain why “god” changed his mind on blacks in the priesthood. Please also explain why people are still born black….you know “cursed” as told by the BOM. We know you won’t. You’ve been instructed to just ignore it.
Has this been reviewed by scholars outside byu?
It has. And this video is an example of counting the hits and ignoring the misses. This is well debunked elsewhere.
There have been many, the most prominent being Dr. Robert Ritner, whom even the LDS church, had review the original documents. Dr. Ritner is America's foremost egyptologist, as well as being world rebound egyptologist, and was John Ghees professor at Harvard. That being said, Dr Ritner has concluded that the JS translation of the papyrus was totally false. In fact he's shown that the documents were nothing more than a burial document from the book of breathing. JS had no clue what he had nor did he have the ability too translate. The book off Abraham is a total false fabrication. Furthermore, as Dr. Ritner explains, Egyptians did not practice human sacrifice, another falsehood stated by the presenter of this BS presentation.
Richard Holmes Not an honest question at all. Not an intelligent question at all.
@@richardholmes7199 Good question.
Some one said this is the book that helps Mormons escape the cult? Is that true?
Christopher Woods in Robert Ritner's book "The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Complete Edition," p. 91 refutes Ulishem/Olishem guys. As he noted "a more convincing identification would have to be based on much more substantial evidence." It's not fooling anyone. All I see here is a quick throwing of the jello against the wall to see what sticks, not an actual analysis of all sides concerning evidence. This may be faith promoting, but it's testimony damaging when all the actual facts are analyzed. You really need to up your game into better ands more realistic honesty of assessment of all available evidence.
The claim that this specific evidence they report isn't enough for you is interesting, but doesn't negate evidence. At some point, the many various evidences that JS just coincidentally happened upon build a compelling case.
The so called evidence even from the text is disproved especially the “shortened” god name and let’s just forget about the other ones . In order to be shortened name is the actual historic evidence. For instance yehoshua versus yehosha or Yahusha in paleo Hebrew there is a longer version and shorter version within the same time period and common because it correlates within the context of reading.this evidence does not bear any of it. Not including that it completely different than the actual translation of the text it’s self.
so I actually have this book, and it should be noted that it was published in 2013, years before this video came out, and that Ritner agrees that there is a phonetic parallel. Also to answer of the replies below, El- is a known derivative of Elohim.... Elkanah and the name of the god from the Canaanite pantheon are well within linguistic bounds from the ancient Jewish pantheon that it derives from
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. This is where it stands.
The word "compelling" doing a lot of work for you at the end
Great evidences! I love the Book of Abraham!
Awesome video. But is there really a need for the annoying background music. It's just not necessary and makes it that much harder to listen to. Just saying.
How is perpetuating fraud awesome?
Wasn’t Sarai Abraham’s half sister anyway, so his wife was his sister?
the word for sister and wife can be the same in Egyptian.
How Fred Neck of him.
@Marty McFly nope...
@Marty McFly You are quite right, the two are nothing alike, anyone who tells you they are is a bloody liar. I thought his name was familiar, turns out henochparks has made quite a few dubious claims on You Tube. A couple of his claims could get him in some serious legal trouble including impersonating an high level Education offical, attorney and mental health professional.
Well done. Thank you so much.
Is there any evidence? No
Thank you for such an enlightening video :)
It is a scam.
@@lisapurplehayes Thank you for sharing your opinion, but as a member of the Church I personally believe in the authenticity of all Holy Scriptures canonised by the Church, including the Pearl of Great Price.
@@teymurgojayev9254 i agree. it is important to just trust the church. they cant lie or lead us astray. It is true that it is not a translation in a traditional sense, but doesn't mean it's not a correct translation from God. His ways are not the way of the world
@@mikkifrompreston4396 Exactly. Thank you very much for citing from Isaiah 55:8. Just like Elder Christensen has said, “most profound teachings are counterintuitive”. Even the most generally accepted commandment “Love your enemies” mostly sounds so different from the solutions that our minds are prone to develop.
@@teymurgojayev9254 exactly. We need to not think about it at all and just believe. The proof is in the numbers.
The LDS are the richest church with $150billion in the bank, that proves how strong it is :)
Do you address the actual papyri that Joseph Smith said was the book of Abraham, and thus translated, even though Egyptian scholars say that it was not at all what you say it says?
The 4 names Joseph Smith produced do not confirm the facsimile. Come on guys, you just have to know better than this. If they had been the Egyptian names, then you can crow a victory on that mere point, but as is, Hebrew or Arabic or any other Ancient Near Eastern names are not confirmation of the EGYPTIAN provenance. Come on, you're blowing smoke here and we all know it. I used to do this as an apologist, and came to my senses.
Focusing on the evidence that confirms and ignoring the evidence that refutes, wait, I think there is a name for that. Oh yeah, it's CONFIRMATION BIAS.
@@helorumtheknightsofmambrin2155 Which you do in reverse. Meanwhile there are TONS of data points of things that JS got right, which you're going to explain away by JS, the subsistence farmer, having some kind of vast research library and the time to notice all these obscure details in academic research of the time. (And many of the details hadn't even been published in the academic research for decades.)
@@welcome2school Isn't it possible that Joseph Smith had ancient manuscripts given to him and was tasked with revealing them? His father was a Freemason. He worked in secret behind a curtain. No one was allowed to see him work. No one was allowed to see the Golden Plates. Freemasons were interested in establishing America as a Christian nation and the location of the New Zion and the Second Coming of Christ. This is the same goal as the Book of Mormon. Is that just a coincidence? Why did God allow the Freemasons to establish a counterfeit LDS Church before Joseph? Or was it the other way around?
James Bruce had hundreds of ancient manuscripts in his possession when he died. Translating them and publishing them in English was a costly prospect which failed to provide any prosperity. Almost nobody cared when he published The Book of Enoch.
Isn't it possible Joseph Smith was finishing the job James Bruce started? The reason LDS scriptures seem to have historical authenticity is because they are ancient apocryphal manuscripts. Manuscripts that were unknown during the King James Bible translation project and likely wouldn't have been included even if they were known. The Book of Enoch is a glaring example.
I have already informed you that Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists.
@@richardholmes5676 Yes you have, and no he hasn't.
Hugh Nibley would be proud.
Joshua Snyder guess you don’t know Aaron ?
Haha! Nice!
@@richardholmes7199 are you still going around peddling this? You very well know they weren't debunked. Someone has just proposed an alternate hypothesis.
@@richardholmes7199 debunked means PROVEN wrong, how was it proven that they were interpreting it wrong? Your guy made a hypothesis about another way to interpret it that has no way to be proven. As you stated previously, you have no proof.
@@richardholmes7199 Chop chop? Get over yourself.
I've been waiting for a response from you on our other thread for how long? But there are no answers, you have no evidence, you have already stated that. You just think it should require no evidence.
Interesting that you changed from translation to "translation/explanation". Joseph claimed to translate, but it works best for your perspective if that gets changed to him explaining it.
I think Egyptian gods should have their correct names, yes. Joseph made up those names and its pretty obvious. Even in this video you can see them try to link them to names, but if he was getting direct revelation he should know their exact name instead of 'it seems like this is related to...'. I've already highlighted to you that the facsimiles are really the glaring error, specifically with those 4 gods they have listed.
I do not think the authors behind this video understand what the word evidence means
The Egyptologists were debunked by Paul Gregersen back in 2014. This is where it stands.
How do you explain the words “organized” instead of created? Did not God created all matter? Or did He or They just organized something already existing? But in that case who created it?
Smith taught that God organized matter. As for who created it check out the King Follet Discourse.
Was Joseph Smith using Hebrew names "very similar" to those in the Bible to name Egyptian deities?
So... we asked church members:
In Exodus 6:24 - It says that Elkanah was the son of Korah, who was a Levite priest and offered sacrifices to the Lord.
Libnah was also a biblical character and his name was not Egyptian as well and so does Elkanah and Korah!
In PGP - ElkEnah, idolatrous god of the priest, who coincidentally made a sacrifice using Abram (who was not even Abraham at this time when such events were taking place.)
Questions:
1 - Why archeologists and historians nowadays have never found Egyptian gods written in hieroglyphics with these names: Mahmackrah, Korash, Libnah and Elkenah?
2 - Why the church apologist, Kevin L. Barney, in the Journal of the Book of Mormon Studies, trying to explain all these oddities, seeks to know if Elkenah was a name of a place, person or just a name, if it is very clear in PGP that Elkenah was the name of an Egyptian god according to the Book of Abraham?
3 - He himself, Barney, confirms that ELKENAH is a Hebrew name of origin - then, how come this be - Egyptians giving Hebrew names to their deities?!?
4 - Don't you think that it's very coincidence between those two events and the names of Korah, Elkanah, a priest and one sacrifice which are related in these Biblical versicles, being so similar to the names Elkenah and Korash together with the sacrifice made by one priest as well, in this tales of pearl of great price?
5 - Why the idolatrous god of Pharaoh doesn't have a proper name, since this was never common in Egyptian society?
Please, could someone from the church answer my questions and settle my doubts?
You are not get them my friend because they will throw some other non-historical vague “truth” instead. Half the stuff they say or make excuses for is just pure fiction. According to the Old Testament Joseph Smith would be undoubtedly a false prophet. For not only lying on different accounts , but also false prophesies.
@@Aoekin If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?
How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica?
How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names?
Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates?
How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts?
Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon's idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?
If there was no apostasy in the Church of Jesus Christ, then what happened to prophets?
If Joseph Smith just made up the idea of vicarious baptism for the dead, why do numerous ancient documents validate the LDS claim that this was an authentic early Christian practice?
At a time when all Christian churches taught that temples were no longer needed, how did Joseph so effectively restore the ancient temple concept on his own?
What other church better corresponds with early Christianity in terms of teaching the true relationship between faith, grace, and works?
Why do the earliest Christian writings sound much closer to LDS theology than they to modern "mainstream" Christianity?
If it's unchristian, unbiblical, and evil to believe that humans have divine potential, why do many Biblical and early Christian sources speak of the humans becoming "gods"?
If the Bible is infallible, by whose authority were the various books of the Bible selected in an infallible manner? By whose authority were the infallible translations made and approved?
Who authorized the changes in the ritual of baptism that occurred since the New Testament Church? And who in your church has true authority from God to perform baptisms?
If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then how do you account for the details in the text that would later be given extensive support by numerous ancient documents that were not available to Joseph Smith?
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists by presenting proper interpretation. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. This is where it stands.
If I made up a person called "Alham" and wrote a story that he went to Urr and some priests tried to sacrifice him to those gods and said their names.... Your video has just proved that story is scripture too. 🤦 The fact Urr exists and Egypt exists and those gods were worshipped around that time has absolutely no bearing on if a story is historical or not. If I wrote a story now about Afghanistan and Allah and Baghdad - they fact those things exist are not proof my story is true either. Jesus is accepted as historical because of the independent attestations across secular and religious groups. The centuries of documents. The archaeology. Not because Jerusalem existed! This is absolute drivel.
I love it guys! Please keep it coming.
good stuff
@@benjaminvandenberghe9726 Are you familiar with the pro Book of Abraham videos from Paul Gregersen? Paul debunked the Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation. Proper interpretational understanding is that you're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan.
The Book of Abraham is eye opening scripture and these evidences are pretty cool, I knew some of them already but I never heard some of these others.
The BOA is a total fraud. Get real.
@@buckweaver4584 Paul Gregersen debunked the idiot Egyptologists.
Google Book of Abraham pt 5 Why Egyptologists are wrong you tube.
As a former member there’s a lot of things I never heard of until recently. That alone is why I left. Too many secrets, and hardly any transparency.
@@cn3ls3n Never heard of until recently? There's no way you could expect to know everything about church history in Sunday school.
This is Gold metal mental gymnastics. It's sad and fascinating how this man can defend something that is proven false without a doubt.
Thank you for this information. Though more clarity is hoped for, this is very helpful.
Always good to keep stretching when engaged in extreme mental gymnastics to avoid the obvious.
This is a really long complicated way to say hey guys, you know when Joseph Smith said he could translate Egyptian hieroglyphs ? Well turns out he lied 🤷♂️
But, what about the stupors of thought and burning bosoms? Concerning reality, are not those the most accurate measure?
The Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid. Care to refute?
@@helorumtheknightsofmambrin2155 No they arent. If that was real then you would also believe Muslums, that say they have had that same conection with their religion.
Also, personal witnessing/testimony is not evidence... if that was the case you would have to believe everyone that has seen Bigfoot, UFO, Aliens, etc
Dude, Joseph smith himself said he was TRANSLATING the papyrus. Not interpreting.
I have given up trying to figure out why so many LDS-hating christians have some of the most antichristian-like behavior I have ever run across. All my life I have been taught by family, church leaders and doctrines to be loving and accepting towards others as they exercise their gift of 'freedom to choose' for themselves, what they will believe and follow. Are we the only one;s that teach that? If so, why?...... on second thought, never mind. It has always been this way and will be until the end.
I have been a member my whole life and after learning true facts not anti stuff I have my doubts about our leaders.
They taught racism, they lied, they didn’t obey the law, etc. Oh and the church disciplines you if you choose a different way. So what you said is not true.
@@estebancarbajal6014 Satan is a master at spreading confusion and half-truths in the hearts and minds of folks with questions. It is not wrong to have questions...but please remember my dear brother in the Gospel, you need to do your own research and check your resources carefully....and most importantly take your concerns to our Father in Heaven...with real intent...and an honest desire to know the truth. My faith has been tested many times...but I have received the answered I have sought, so completely that I no longer have doubts or worries. I know this is Father's church.. I know we have leaders AND members who are imperfect mortals... We are all God has to work with. No leader or member can un-truth God's doctrines... And all things will be made right in the end. I will pray sincerely as you work through your doubts. Be careful not to give more weight to your doubts.. Than to the things you have testimony of.
Your Sister in the Gospel😇💖
@@Denaliwind Believe me, I want to believe. But some things are just hard. I am checking my sources carefully. My dad was a Stake Pesident, all my family are members. I know what I am talking about.
@@RandolphTheWhite1 Sadly, Randal Hanson, some of what you say is true. When you have any group made up of imperfect people (as we all are) you will find examples of every sin possible. In fact, in the times I have been hurt or disappointed by a fellow member it hurts me far more than when of my nonmember brothers or sisters does it. I have figured out that is the case because I know another member knows and should have been taught better. It would be so wonderful if only perfect people were in the church (unfortunately I wouldn't be allowed in if that were the criteria) however God can only work with what He has to work with. The combined faults of all the members however, does not make the Gospel teachings and principles less true. Just because a member is rude, untruthful, unfaithful, etc. does not make the church's teachings of honesty, kindness towards others, and moral behavior untrue.... it just means those people do not live the very doctrine the claim to believe in. I also know (having been a member all my life) that there are a great many wonderful, caring members who love Jesus Christ with all their heart and try sincerely, each day, to live as our Savior has asked all of us to. I am ashamed and hurt by the examples of those members who don't but, I leave their final judgement to our Heavenly Father.
@@estebancarbajal6014 hey i would love to share a video for you concerning what youve said you wanting to believe... check out jeffrey r. Holland- Lord, I believe... that helped me to stand even though of this confusion where im not fully drawn into it
Darn Rosetta Stone! Burial papyri was translated this crushing all his works.
South Park brought me here
Good ol South Park.
Come for South Park, stay for the doctrine
This video doesn't seem like the best choice for advertising the channel honestly. Plenty of aspects of the Mormon church can be appealing to non-members but attempting to support literal interpretation of the Book of Abraham with backward chaining logic isn't very enticing. Maybe this ad was targeted to me based on my zip code with the assumption that I would be Mormon. That could explain why there's quite a bit of dissent in the comments because the Salt Lake area has a fairly large population of people who have left the church.
@@richardholmes7199 get a life dude, you're not doing any service to yourself or your church by harassing strangers in a RUclips comment section.
Rachael Partee Hold on, Rachael, sister of low blow! Your statements here assume gloom on the Book of Abraham. Why parrot propaganda? Defer slur, sister of rancid ramification! An incredibly wise God has placed some of His writ a bit beyond the reach of the insincere, dear. Sister of sour note to float, of vectored vinegar, sentinel of sewage-this video is not an ad, or effort to entice, but rather something nice. The few who have left the Faith are not a size to cause surprise-the five foolish virgins were not prepared either.
Cheers to you anyway, girl of guile, lass of sass: before writing more lore, let fly with pleasant sigh!
Love to you. 💛🙏🏽
@@Glen.Danielsen Well that was an unnecessary rambling of passive-aggression. I only saw this video because it was in fact a paid ad before a different video. I'm not looking through the entire upload history to nitpick the Mormon church, just making a point that this video wasn't the best choice to advertise the channel to random people.
Those who left the church will never be blessed, unless they’re willing to repent ...
@@thetubagus7832 I left the church and I have received way more blessings and am so much more happier now than when I was in the church. I can't even explain to you how much more happier and at peace I am.
Dave Snell does a marvelous job narrating this insightful video. But I will not recommend it to anyone, because the _Comments_ section is strewn with anti-LDS snark and misinformation. And _Book of Mormon Central_ has declined to moderate it out. Just smug shrug.
It’s OK. If those of us who believe in the book of Mormon, and know that it is true, cannot handle a little bit of controversy and anti-book of Mormon sentiment, then our testimony is not that strong. Anything that anyone is prepared to throw at me, I am prepared to deflect it, catch it and throw it back at them if they like.because my faith is that strong. I also happen to know a few things about evidence as well, and I have some of it in my possession. That makes my faith even stronger :-)
@@Mockturtlesoup1 well, you have certainly given me something to think about. You’re a cynic. I see that. Before I can adequately and completely answer what you have asked me, may I ask you something? First, do you normally jump to conclusions, and make assumptions about people that you have never met based upon a brief comment that person has made publicly? The other question I have for you is, what do you consider to be truth, and how do you normally go about seeking it?
@@csluau5913wow. You surely would have been the first in line for that kool-aid at Jonestown. 😂
@@jefferyorton1723 SMH. What a nasty thing to say to somebody that you don’t even know.
@@csluau5913 thank you for your input.
The facsimiles are on the scroll that was found. Smith identified Abraham incorrectly along with others on the scroll. Knowing this, Shouldnt the scroll with the facsimiles on them be scrolls that joseph got the book of Abraham from. Or at least part of it. This is evidence.....of a liar.
Joseph Smith was right. The arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Care to refute?
One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.
Completely ignore the most obvious one that people wanted to go over is the actual translation 😂 will go through mental hoops for “historical“ bit completely ignore the true translation just funny to me.
By establishing the manuscript has historical authenticity and knowing the translation account is fabricated, we can only assume the manuscript was given to Joseph Smith as a complete document. Joseph Smith utilized the discovery of the papyri as an opportunity to publish the manuscript.
The concept that he had manuscripts waiting to be "revealed" seems logical and most likely explains the translation of The Book of Mormon as well. The Book of Mormon was already complete in English when it was given to Joseph Smith. This is why he had to wait a season when he lost the first 116 pages. Those pages had to be rewritten as The Book of Nephi. When that was complete, Joseph and Oliver finished it very quickly.
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. Paul has been covering this since 2014.
@@richardholmes5676Explain to me what Paul Gregerson's argument was.
(Bible says, God comes by the truth of your heart is your crown)means/corona, we are the word of God and our actions are the signs of word, welcome to the corona/tion. Each sentence in the Bible is a sentence from order and each sentence is a year sentence as (1 in the beginning was the word) and (2 the word was with God) and (3 the word was God) (4 and the corona/crown has placed us as word six feet of firmament from each other.) Truth of word flows eternally forward as the distortion of truth is number, numb/cold power numb/ber. The multitudes are being taken back from death/darkness as legion is many took everything from all the word. The light in the darkness is this grain of earth within this universal body and it is protecting all of life as you have a Galactic cell out there and this Galactic cell we are in right now is the body of Christ, you live the body of Christ within Omega as you have all word/will of creation upon you within each cell is a throne for all word of creation, you have your will/word of creation upon equal me/a/sure, you are a universal body, when this is over you will be shown all your action and consequence upon your Galactic realm and when trust is earnt you will claim your universal body again within this multiverse. (universe/unity of verse/unity of word. I wrote a book it is all over the world and the more I try to announce it the more I am shut down. The book is, The last shall be the first and the first shall be the last by Joseph Darrell Walker. If you know the Bible then you will know everything. Voices in head are not mental, think positive and legion as he is many will leave. Genesis isn't walking us into the darkness he is walking us out of it so read 4,3,2,1, and it will make better sense.
Good Job guys 👏 👏 Proud Lds Christian for life 🤘 🕊
Ah, excuse me LDS are NOT CHRISTIAN, any belief system that claims Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer is anything but Christian!!! Now if you wish to claim that you are a proud LDS/ luciferian, we then I chant argue. Oh & BTW, excellent use of the well established & recognized heavy metal satanic symbol (the hand gesture emoji) could not have proven my point ANY better, had I wanted to!!!
@@corybritton1966 we literally follow the bible dude. the bible is scripture and we study it lol
The gospel topics essay on the Book of Abraham represents some of the poorest research and arguments on the topic. It shocks me that David would recommend it.
whats 1 of the best?
📘📘‼‼The Book of Abraham is part of the Pearl of Great Price, which mormons consider scripture. The papyri which Joseph Smith said he translated the Book of Abraham from have been exposed to be nothing more than funeral texts from ancient Egypt.
At least eight Egyptologists and semitists have studied the papyri and concluded that they were portions of ordinary funerary documents.
Egyptologist James H. Breasted of the University of Chicago said:
“[T]hese three facsimiles of Egyptian documents in the ‘Pearl of Great Price’ depict the most common objects in the Mortuary religion of Egypt. Joseph Smith’s interpretations of them as part of a unique revelation through Abraham, therefore, very clearly demonstrates that he was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian writing and civilization.”
Flinders Petrie of London University even went so far as to say:
“It may be safely said that there is not one single word that is true in these explanations”.
Most of the LDS apologetics want to say that that Joseph Smith just used the papyri as inspiration for the Book of Abraham, and that’s why it’s not a literal translation of the papyri, but Joseph Smith ruled that possibility out when he said he was:
“translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients.”
Joseph Smith also said in his journal: “This afternoon labored on the Egyptan alphabet, in company with brsr. O. Cowdery, and W.W.Phelps…”
With with Joseph Smith clearly attempting a literal translation, and after seeing that numerous Egyptologists agree that the Book of Abraham is not a translation of the papyri, it’s quite apparent his translation was completely bogus.
But you haven’t dealt with the evidence as presented in this video. I’ve noticed critics love to stick with their strongest arguments like quoting scholars saying the papyri doesn’t match the text, but they won’t actually grapple with the evidence that cuts against their view.
Despite how we got the Book of Abraham, it can’t be disputed that The Book contains facts, names, and ideas not in the Bible or other documents available in that day that match very precisely ancient documents and evidence that has been discovered since that time. If Joseph Smith was making up wild tales, how did he he get so many things right about the ancient world that he had no way of knowing?
Finally, addressing the papyri/translation dispute. Joseph actually did get a remarkable amount of things right with the facsimiles. For instance, he correctly depicted in facsimile 1 the Egyptian concept of the sky being a dome held up by pillars that kept the oceans above out. This concept was not known until we figured out how to read Egyptian decades later. How did Joseph once again correctly depict things that he could not have known and was a completely foreign concept in 19th century America.
@Tyler Ahlstrom damn that was a good reply, I do 100% agree with you. If Joseph smith made all of this up, then he is the greatest author, creator, and guesser in all of human history. The multiple accounts of his relatives saying he was while a charismatic guy, was not very smart, was completely illiterate, and somehow came up with a story that is believed by millions.
@@ramon-8003 Islam has over a Billion. That makes the Pedophile Mohammad a genius. right? And that makes Islam much much much more true and reliable than Mormonism right?
You're supposed to compare the papyri to the Book of Abraham, not the papyri to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the papyri (counterfeit) to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan. This is proper interpretation. It's not the Latter Day Saints fault that your Egyptologist and anti-Mormon friends are too dumb to interpret the right way.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
I’m still waiting for evidence though, this was just theories and opinions
I have ask. The say. Joseptsmith
You mean Joseph'Smyth
Amazes me how so many have a knee-jerk rejection of The Book of Abraham based on half-baked conclusions of fifty or more years ago.
@@richardholmes7199 when you're a Mormon prophet, you don't actually have to translate acient writings, you can just stare at it, invent your own story, call it "inspiration", convince gullible people, and rake in 10% of their earnings. The only Egyptian thing Joseph Smith knew, was how to create a pyramid...a pyramid scheme.
@@richardholmes7199 carrying a conversation with yourself?
@@richardholmes7199 Joseph Smith and his reformed Egyptian, knowledge about people of the Americas, and their language, culture and history has been thoroughly debunked. DNA, archeological findings, linguistics... None of them support the book of Mormon
@@richardholmes7199 Bovine Excrement! 🤣 Are you still hanging around here Dicky?
Could you be elaborate pro or against?
Okay, so, if this book is true, then why does it talk about planets and the sun being the center of the universe, if the Scriptures described a unmoving and fixed earth, with everything spinning around it? And if, the book of Abraham is true, and talks about a celestial body of gods in heaven, then why in the Scriptures, does God (Yahweh) say, “besides Me there are no gods, I know not one.” You see, if there are multiple problems people see with this account as well as, the doctrine of Mormonism itself, then it may be a false doctrine to begin with. Joseph Smith was a con artist, tried and convicted, he wrote the Book of Mormon and the testimony of the witnesses,as well as, this book and others. If you can’t see that then your on your own.
According to reputable scholars Ur of the Chaldeans was in southern Iraq or what would have been known as Babylonia back then.
I don’t see how Ur could have been in southern Turkey/northern Syria because in the bible Abraham commands his servant to travel back to his homeland of MESOPOTAMIA to his relatives to find his son Isaac a wife, rather than him marry a Canaanite woman.
This is biblical evidence that Abraham cannot have originated n southern Turkey which wasn’t anywhere near Mesopotamia.
The other point is, why would God tell Abraham to use a word that meant both wife and sister?
That would still put Abraham at risk of the Egyptians killing him since they would question whether she was also his wife if the word used means both of them.
Nothing about it really adds up and follows the usual Mormon desperate attempts at looking for anything that could lend even the vaguest confirmation bias of historic evidence to Smiths comic books
A: Joseph Smith was tried but not a convicted con artist, In fact, the person who went to court with Joseph was the nephew of the said victim, now the said victim (the uncle) did not say that Joseph Smith was a con artist at all. In fact he (the said victim) testified that he knew Joseph Smith could do this so called treasure hunting and could see below ground with said seer stones. Know your studies. And no, nothing in that book says the earth is unmovable. When God said there was no other gods before me, He was talking to the Jews, and was basically telling them that He is the only one to be worshiped by the people of earth.
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the Egyptologists?
Where's the evidence?
Soooooo, dont mind the man behind the curtain there. Lol. Look I don't want to be mean, but there is NO EVIDENCE for reform Egyptian... I suppose it was easier for Joseph to say he could translate hieroglyphs, until the Rosetta stone was discovered that is. haha.
You're confusing two different things. "Reformed Egyptian" is from the Book of Mormon, and it's the descriptor they themselves gave to how the writing system had changed after over a thousand years.
The Book of Abraham has nothing to do with reformed Egyptian. It was translated from multiple scrolls, the largest of which was in the Chicago museum and burned in the Great Chicago fire.
I suggest listening to Dr Robert Ritner’s breakdown of the papyri that Joseph Smith claimed to translate from over on Mormon Stories Podcast. He’s an actual Doctorate level Egyptologist and thoroughly goes through it point by point. Gee and the other Mormon apologists have this absolutely wrong and it’s why it’s only taught this way within the BYU’s system and not at any of other colleges and universities in the world.
Indeed!
This comment section is full of toxic non LDS and LDS. We are better than this
I love that having a discussion is toxic, typical mormon rhetoric..... Don't do anything but follow the prophet and listen to your stomach and how hungry you are.
I am still a baptized member, for now. but I have found the truth and that is not Mormonisim. I wish more would release themselves from the shackles of this religion.
Jon what kind of questions should we ask to inspire conversations?
I sarcastically love the mindset that if someone has a different opinion they are supposedly toxic. No dissent allowed? No skepticism allowed?
@@WatchPleaseMe you clowns have been calling this video mental gymnastics and have been calling believing members gullible. Stfu about “discussion.”
I'm an Olympic Wrestling Champion and was the BYU Wrestling Coach for 10 years. I recently learned the truth that Joseph married wives of 11 other men while they were still married. He married girls 14 years old. He sent Orson Hyde on a mission then married his wife Miranda. What a scumbag. The book of Abraham is pure fiction with many parts stolen from the bible. The papyrus Joseph translated has ZERO connection to Abraham. In fact it wasn't written by the hand of Abraham as Joseph claimed. In fact it was written 2000 years after Abraham lived. The Gods Joseph identified in the jars below the Lion's couch on facimile 1 don't exist anywhere in anyone's history. Joseph LIED folks. I'd continue to point out lies but it makes me sick to think I was a member of this cult for 30 years..
Mark Schultz! That’s awesome! As a ex mormon and a wrestler I’m a fan. I think the book of Abraham is the most cogent example of dishonesty and fraud from smith.
I do not find your concerns very convincing. You are giving out standard arguments that there are good counter arguments for. For instance, many of the marriages that Joseph had were eternal sealings. A woman can be married to one man for eternity, and to a different man for time. It was not polyandry because those women who were already married remained with their husband for time so they would be taken care of when Joseph was gone.
Hi Mark, as someone who has never wrestled a day in his life and someone who has been going through a faith crisis and thus has been reading all this stuff, your stated facts here all mostly wrong or are speculative with the historical evidence that we have. You're just parroting exmo nonsense here
Amen
@@heberfrank8664 Joseph slept with teens and married women. Prove me wrong and I'll believe you.
Also Book of Abraham says Jesus and Satan were brothers. Ha
The Book of Abraham: "There are those who believe, that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. They may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens..."
NO WAIT WAIT!!! That's the Battlestar Galactica (1978) opening...my apologies! I get the two confused sometimes.😁
Not to mention , that It teaches polytheism, when it says that the Gods created the earth, Gods in plural
1:30: no.
Hell No!
No need to see the other 8 minutes of mental gymnastics lol the answer is just plainly No.
What evidence is there that Joseph Smith had "a gift for translating ancient languages." What ancient languages did he translate? The Book of Mormon was supposed to be written in "reformed Egyptian." Yes, there is no evidence that such a language ever existed. If I am wrong, please show me the evidence. You are basing this on one man's opinion, a man of questionable reputation. Where did he get his training in ancient languages? Did he write any papers on ancient languages? And then there are the Kinderhook Plates. Smith was supposed to have deciphered the figures etched on them and came up with a wild story about what was "written" on the plates. Yet, they turned out to be nothing but a hoax by people who wanted to trap him, to see if he really had a "gift" for translation, which, apparently, he did not. The plates might not have too important because it has been noted that Smith lost interest in them after his "translation." Why didn't they become part of Mormon canon as is the "Book of Abraham?" Mormons will always come up with excuses to justify their beliefs in things that are factually not true.
Hey, you may be interested at looking at a comparison between reformed egyption from the anthon transcript and mi kmaq language
I’ve always wondered how LDS members even make it past the oddity that JS translated the so called plates to sound like English from the 1600’s. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This is the first glaring indication of the fraud that is JS. Who would translate something in to anything but a language they actually use. They are starting to sound like flat earthers. A complete divorcement from facts and reality.
@@buckweaver4584 Have you ever asked anyone why he translated it into 1600s english? Because there is a reason if you bothered to look it up.
@@zaboguy
Don’t need to. Because there isn’t any logical reason anyone would do that. That’s not how translation works. People translate foreign languages in to their language. Not one they don’t speak. Use your brain. Obvious facts aren’t that hard.
Have you asked flat earth believing people why the earth is flat? Exactly, you don’t need to. Do you need to ask why the BOM contains verbatim grammatical and translation errors found only in the 1830 KJV Bible? No you don’t, as the only obvious answer is that he copied them from that Bible. Get real man.
@@buckweaver4584 If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?
How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica?
How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names?
Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates?
How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts?
Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon's idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?
If there was no apostasy in the Church of Jesus Christ, then what happened to prophets?
If Joseph Smith just made up the idea of vicarious baptism for the dead, why do numerous ancient documents validate the LDS claim that this was an authentic early Christian practice?
At a time when all Christian churches taught that temples were no longer needed, how did Joseph so effectively restore the ancient temple concept on his own?
What other church better corresponds with early Christianity in terms of teaching the true relationship between faith, grace, and works?
Why do the earliest Christian writings sound much closer to LDS theology than they to modern "mainstream" Christianity?
If it's unchristian, unbiblical, and evil to believe that humans have divine potential, why do many Biblical and early Christian sources speak of the humans becoming "gods"?
If the Bible is infallible, by whose authority were the various books of the Bible selected in an infallible manner? By whose authority were the infallible translations made and approved?
Who authorized the changes in the ritual of baptism that occurred since the New Testament Church? And who in your church has true authority from God to perform baptisms?
If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then how do you account for the details in the text that would later be given extensive support by numerous ancient documents that were not available to Joseph Smith?
"Every minute there's a sucker born."- Joseph "Conman" Smith
?
@@petejohnson1524 So unreasonable. It's unreasonable that he had false prophecies. It's unreasonable that he used his power to marry 14 year old girls. It's unreasonable he ran from persecution (unlike Christ and the apostles). It's unreasonable he would send men of on missions so he could take their wives. It's unreasonable that he ran for president, after creating his religion. You don't create a religion to make "a quick buck". He knew the power that would from calling himself a "prophet of God". He was creating a legacy. Like Mohammed, he wanted a power, authority, women and money. By God's own standards, it's unreasonable and impossible for Joey Smith to be a prophet.
@@petejohnson1524 ?
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
@@richardholmes5676 you're gonna have to make the argument yourself in a comment instead of telling people to go watch a series of different videos.
Wait God did not instruct Abraham to lie about Sarai being his sister. Genesis 12 clearly states this was purely Abrahams idea and thus the one who decided to lie.
Abraham 2:21-25 clarifies this passage and shows that it was the Lord who directed Abraham to do so. But it was not a lie, it was truth. She was his sister (Genesis 20:12) as well as his wife (which, as shown above could have used a word that meant both).
The Bible is missing much. Little by little God gives us more if we are faithful and willing to receive it. The book of Abraham is an amazing fragment of scripture and teaches us more of God's great plan for His children.
@@chrishumphries7489 still going to disregard the whole actual translation of the those scrolls? About the burial of the dead. No mention of Abraham.
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. This is where it stands.
@@Aoekin Why do you disregard the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the Egyptologists?
The scrolls of Abraham are mentioned in the Qur'an. I just found out that it's in the Mormon books. Thank you so much! The stories in the Mormon scripture correspond to the events surrounding Abraham's life in the Qur'an and the Qur'an has never ever been changed.
Quran is the corrupted book the whole world or in the universe
@@treatyc4963 Aw you need to do your research. It's ok, I was clueless about The Qur'an before I studied it and embraced Islam. It's never been changed by a single letter in over 1400 years because it's recorded by sound, not by text. Every single line doesn't just rhyme with all the other lines as a complete poem, but with a complex circular structure that flows throughout the entire book. If a single letter is changed, it can be heard clearly and the meaning of the verse makes no sense. Verses are repeated throughout The Qur'an that allow the verses and context to validated against one another. Millions of people have memorised The Qur'an in its original form, word for word, and it's been passed down this way from its revelation by the angel Gabriel. There is no point in trying to destroy or change any of it because all of those that have memorised it will simply rewrite it.
@@treatyc4963 If you are a Christian, then you should read The Qur'an because there is a lot of information in it that was destroyed that was meant for Jesus's followers, especially with regards to the last days. The anti-christ is changing the Bible so you need to be careful with that.
The quran is full of lies
Islam's so called prophet was a warlord who killed, pillaged, married a six year old when he was fifty, and advocated for violence, which is clear in the Koran. Only uninformed tools or violent fanatics can consider embracing such a religion.
Dan Vogel has buried the BoA.
Abraham was neither a Jew on the sense we know it, or Egyptian. There is also no evidence of him speaking or writing Egyptian.
There are multiple ancient documents and ancient traditions that demonstrate that Abraham what's involved with Egypt. Oh and how about the fact that the Bible in Genesis talks about him visiting Egypt and speaking with the Pharaoh presumably in the Egyptian language.
@@BehavingBradly I would imagine the pharaoh would be multi lingual or have translators since he would work with so many other nations for trade and what not.
What disappoints me is that this will allow desperate people to waste even more time believing the Book of Abraham isn't a lie.
Very true.
It's actually a serious matter:
This upload is further deceiving, gullible, vulnerable people (with limited reasoning skills) into staying in an organization which takes away their time and money.
Nothing desperate about it. The text of the Book of Abraham is true scripture, its provenance is beyond reproach, and you will never, ever have anything better to offer us.
@@Themanyfacesofego You have no business disparaging anyone else's ability to reason. You've failed miserably at it yourself.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists back in 2014. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. Paul has clearly covered this on his videos.
I can't believe I was ever gullible enough to believe this completely hilarious nonsense.
Preach, Brother!! 😉
To have believed that the Egyptologists were right is hilarious nonsense. As Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014. The Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid. Paul has clearly covered this.
I came across a youtube channel -- "Panama museum" -- which has a video about some "gold plates discovered in an ancient pre-Colombian tomb"
The pictures of the gold plates closely match the description of Joseph's gold plates.
Would you check this out and give your opinion?
@@guyphawkes The three witnesses and three of the eight witnesses left the Church.
Oliver Cowdery would later return to the Church and seek rebaptism. He repeated his testimony many times until his death. "I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed."
Martin Harris later returned to the Church and was rebaptized. On his death bed he said, "The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know, I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear, I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing for these things are true."
David Whitmer never returned to the Church, but left an extensive record validating his testimony. He testified many times for the rest of his life. In 1884 he said, "In June, 1829 I saw the angel by the power of God. Joseph, Oliver, and I were alone, and a light from heaven shone around us, and solemnity pervaded our minds. The angel appeared in the light, as near as that young man [within five or six feet]. Between us and the angel there appeared a table, and there upon it the sword of Laban, the Ball of [sic] Directors, the Record, and Interpreters. The angel took the Record, and turned the leaves, and showed it to us by the power of God.... My testimony in the Book of Mormon is true; I can't deviate from it."
None of the eight witnesses recanted their testimonies.
@@guyphawkes The Printer's manuscript was copied from the original manuscript by Oliver Cowdery, including the witness's statements and signatures. The original manuscript was placed in the cornerstone of the Nauvoo House. It was removed in 1882 by Lewis Bidamon, Emma's second husband. Only 28% of the original manuscript survived.
In his Proclamation, dated 19 Mar 1881, David Whitmer made a point of affirming that his testimony was true just as it was printed in the Book of Mormon.
In 1876, John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, wrote a lengthy letter to Mark Forscutt, which included the following: "I have never heard that any one of the three or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they had borne to Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon."
You can believe what ever you want. I know that the evidence presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and that the Book of Mormon came forth as stated by all of the witnesses.
Gary K Coleman 🤣😂🤣😂 that video is a known fraud to mock you!
@@shawnbradford2243 I am well aware that it is fake. I am curious if anyone has claimed to be the creator of the fraud.
@@guyphawkes I already identified Moroni as the angel and explained the mix up with Nephi.
You haven't even given one credible source of the "Real history" that you claim to have searched. You haven't given anything to verify that what you say is true. Until you can provide your source, we will assume that you are the one lying.
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists by presenting proper interpretation. Proper interpretation is that Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated in reverse back to a biblical text. Paul debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014. Nonetheless the anti-Mormons ignore this.
the LDS church (see gospel topic essays) agree with Egyptologists though…
"None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham"
Gospel topic essay named "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham".
Are the essays, approved by church authorities incorrect?
@@mikkifrompreston4396The assumption that Joseph Smiths translation was supposed to match up with the one from that of the arrogant Egyptologists is indeed the assumption debunking the arrogant Egyptologists. Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Why are you avoiding comment on this?
@@richardholmes5676 So do you disagree with the LDS published essays that were approved by our LDS leaders and authorities?
Is the LDS church, and every Egyptologist wrong, but RUclipsr Paul Gregerson right?
@@mikkifrompreston4396 Are you, like all other anti-Mormon parrots 🦜, carrying on a conversation with yourself? The LDS essays only state the translations don't match. Here's the kicker. The translations were never supposed to match. The assumption that the translations were supposed to match was made by your anti-Mormon and Egyptologist cult. Your assumption of the translations needing to match up in order for Joseph Smith to have translated everything correctly is indeed the assumption debunking your anti-Mormon and Egyptologist cult, proving you stupid. Joseph Smith was right, you're all wrong. Did you have something to say?
@@richardholmes5676 ??
"Simpler made" videos, continuous uploading would increase subscribers. I would like to watch more. But to have success, the BMC team should learn how to deal with RUclips Plataform.
I hope for you!
They will; they are fast learners. And their production values are outstanding! Familiarity with RUclips analytics and how to use the algorithm is just a matter of a little doing.
We hope to. Hopefully we get more funding to create these more consistently.
I find it disturbing that LDS followers completely overlook the entire Kinderhook fiasco.
This has been looked at extensively. You can find lots of responses to the issue from an LDS perspective.
Including by this very channel
So what is the official response by the kinderhook plates?
@AndrewKuttor this is:
"In 1843, a group of men unearthed six bell-shaped brass plates about three inches in height from an American Indian burial mound near Kinderhook, Illinois. The plates contained symbols resembling an ancient script, and one member of the group thought the artifacts appeared well suited for Joseph Smith to translate. Accounts suggest the discovery intrigued Joseph Smith and other Latter-day Saints in Illinois, but no translated text resulted from this short-lived excitement. One of those present when the plates were unearthed later reported that he had learned the whole episode was a prank. Wilbur Fugate admitted that he, Robert Wiley, and a local blacksmith forged the plates and deposited them in the burial mound the night before the discovery. Chemical and metallurgical analysis of the one surviving plate confirms the artifact was not an ancient production. Moreover, the characters on the plates do not match any known language and were likely invented by Fugate and Wiley. Contemporaneous sources say very little about Joseph Smith’s encounter with the Kinderhook plates, which occurred over a span of just a few days in 1843. Joseph apparently examined the plates and, according to his clerk William Clayton, remarked that they contained “the history of … a descendant of Ham through the loins of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” Joseph evidently did not attempt a revelatory translation as he had done with the Book of Mormon plates, but rather appears to have compared the symbols on the Kinderhook plates with other ancient artifacts in his possession. One symbol on the plates closely matches a glyph on the Egyptian papyri Joseph translated in Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph’s previous translation of this glyph mentions a descendant of Ham through the lineage of the pharaohs. Whether Joseph suspected the forgery, thought of attempting a revelatory translation but experienced a “stupor of thought,” or merely took a scholarly interest in the purported ancient writings (like other amateur linguists of the time) remains unconfirmed by historical accounts. Whatever he thought of the plates, he quickly lost interest in them."
TL;DR: it is known Joseph took interest in them and tried to use The GAEL to figure out what they were about. Unfortunately for him the GAEL is useless.
Bad guys tried to trick Joseph by forging some plates and asking him to translate them. ONE of the symbols the bad guys made up coincidently happened to match a symbol Joseph was familiar with which he stated. But he was unable to translate the rest of the faked kinderhook plates and he lost interest. It’s was an academic exercise for him, but nothing ever came of it.
In Chapter 2, Abraham is speaking the more familiar Egyptian word for his wife so as to not be looked upon with a jaundiced eye for one. Another perfectly good reason for calling Sarah his sister was that she may very well have been his half sister. After Hagar had Ishmael, and then later Sarah has Isaac, the custom of the day was that a child by your wife who is your half-sister always gets first born rights over the child by any other mechanism of fatherhood. So it would be perfectly logical for him to call her his sister, as she may very well have been his half sister. His father's daughter but not necessarily his mother's daughter.
As for the word collab, after some research I happened to stumble across the word kolob is a secondary name for the planet/ infrared star that legitly orbits through the solar system every 3600 years called Nibiru / Kolob.
Not surprisingly however according to the Sumerian writings the Council of the Gods came to Earth from that particular star and resided as a line of leaders of ancient Samaria in their writings for over 40,000 years in the pre Earth age. Not only are they known as the Anunnaki, they are also known as the Elohim, in the Hebrew.
Surprisingly in the Hebrew text of the Bible. It also States the fact that God organized the planet, not created it.
@@binren3984 no but I do know that there's a considerable difference between ancient Hebrew which is written in symbolic form and old Hebrew which is written in Aramaic script. And they don't always say the same thing. Not only that, all the way up to the area of turkey Assyria throughout the Middle East the Egyptians and the Mesopotamians had a lot of interaction. So the understanding of Egyptian would have been normal. Not only that there is a custom of the day that a child born to a wife that is your half-sister takes precedence over a child born to a non family connection. Which is exactly why Isaac still got first born rights and blessings. I don't have to know Hebrew when I can easily study the symbolic version of Hebrew and the Aramaic form and realize that they don't always say the same thing. And frequently they also don't say anything close to what the King James version says.
@@binren3984 you seem to misunderstand something, the funerary tab was only one of several pieces of writings that were used. So you're depending on that and that only is an exercise in deception on your part or ignorance on your part.
The majority of my comment has to do with Biblical script and how much of this is actually consistent with Biblical script.
Testing against biblical script is an accepted form of verification.
I would also like to point out that in some of the ancient Sumerian script you've also find the word collab/kolob, as it sometimes relates to observations of Nibiru. However that is rare but it has occurred. But these are understandings that have only recently come to be known. The Sumerians did write extensively about astrology. What we today call astronomy. Even including Neptune and Pluto in the planets of our solar system long before we recently found them. They also speak of a planet that was between Mars and Jupiter that was destroyed and became the asteroid belt, at least according to their writings have they been talked about the Earth being placed in its orbit and the Moon being placed there at a later time. The Earth being struck and forming the Moon is only a hypothesis. Get rid of some moderate theory that indicates that it may have been struck however that has never been verified one way or another. Given the accuracy and the fact that everything in the Sumerian writings follows astronomical principles. You might think that they are at least a reasonable source of information in some respects.
But I would like to point out again that merely alluding to the funerary text is not something that was done, nor are any of these texts in Hebrew. They are in symbolic Egyptian hieroglyphs. Slightly akin to the ancient Hebrew symbolic alphabet before it was changed to the Aramaic script. And with that change we lose at least some understanding because Hebrew doesn't say the same thing in the Aramaic script as it did in the ancient script.
Considering there is no fundamental Doctrine shift presented by the book of Abraham, I don't know what all the whining and crying is about.
The LDS church has the exact same primary Doctrine as pretty much every other Christian Church on the planet today. The only thing that the LDS church does not teach is the invention by tertullian that Yeshua, God the father, and the Holy Ghost, are one single being. There is no support for that especially considering that Yeshua constantly stated that his father was greater than he was. If he and his father were one in the same being. There would be no reason for him to say such a thing. One might think that God the father would know that he and God the Father are both God the Father. That is merely an invention from almost three centuries after Yeshua was in Israel. And it was questionable then, and it's still questionable today. And I have studied other religions that at one time they didn't believe that crap at all. But suddenly in the last 50 years or so they've adopted this Catholic theological position, which still makes no sense whatsoever.
@@binren3984 I understand that but you're still centering on the funerary document which actually doesn't go with the mummy it actually goes to the family of the dead person it's more like a car did you pick up in remembrance of someone at the funeral home. It's almost like a prayer for their soul for lack of a better explanation.
It may have only been that these documents helped put him in the frame of mind to have the inspiration to write the book. And translation was an adequate word at the time for that activity. People are far more questioning of too many details in the area of religious script these days. As I stated however, there's nothing in the book of Abraham the changes the fundamental belief structure and Doctrine hope the church where it is outside of mainstream. Minor Details are nothing to sweat over. There's far more issues with the latest version of the King James version especially as it regards the Old Testament which was originally written in ancient Hebrew and then was translated into old Hebrew Aramaic script. And then into Hebrew with the vowel markings, which occurred around 600 BC or after. Then it was translated to Greek and Latin and I think it was reconstituted in Latin before it went into the first version of King James and then it went into two other versions of King James after they had added the J to the Latin language. That's how you ended up with the 1611 version or after. There is a plethora of minor detail problems with the King James version. Which is why it is so difficult to study Biblical scripture.
Everybody constantly is worried about the method of transcription instead of the body of the final product. If the final product Ray's has no real issues, and especially if you're not a member of the church, what the hell is the problem?
Although I make pointed out occasionally, the Catholics have certain belief structures that are not scriptural e sound in any way shape or form without taking verses out of context and trying to string them together to make an idea work. Maybe even convinced Pepperell other Protestant Christian churches follow along with some of these ideas. But that is not something I generally do well on because I'm not Catholic and I find their assertions predicated on some researcher instead of the someone who actually had the authority to actually make a decision predicated on Direct Revelation from God to add to the scripture. Because this was actually about the second Council of Nicea that that particular concept crept into their belief structure. But as I say there's no justification for it to me which is why I don't follow that particular religion.
I actually have a tendency to research details of scripture from both historical and scientific angles so that I can have a better understanding of the Paradigm from which many of these things were written. I find the inferences in scripture and science that often inform one's thinking if you're open-minded and come look at things from various paradigms. Like I say if there's nothing in the body of the book that is not a good report or praiseworthy I tend to discount it and if it is a fundamental theological flaw I will take issue with it. But there is nothing that I have found in the book of Abraham which is a fundamental theological fall poor anything that's not praiseworthy. Because if you don't study the final product all your whining in the world is empty because you haven't studied the final product.
Most of these contentions I run into her about the Book of Mormon and there's things in the Book of Mormon Joseph Smith could not possibly have known and he certainly wasn't bright enough to have copied chiastic verse that he knew nothing about. I'm Not only was chiastic verse not discovered in the Bible until the 1930s or something it wasn't even recognized within the Book of Mormon until 1967. When has it turns out step the chiasms at parallelisms that are in the Book of Mormon, appear most often only in the Hebrew text which Joseph Smith Never Had direct access to. That was almost unheard of in his day. And almost none of those parallelisms and chiasms up here in the King James version because it was considered redundant.
@@binren3984 the one thing that is consistent with the papyri is that it is consistent with a much older ritual that was done, according to the book of Abraham, by priest representatives of pharaoh. And yes it had different people's names on different Scripps of that papyri because as I said it's for an individual family to remember their dead family member. There were probably hundreds of thousands of these things. Several hundred if not a few thousand actually did survive the present. But they were not saved because they were so omnipresent even 200 years ago. It's why a lot of mummies didn't survive because they were literally millions of them. They were sometimes used as fuel for steam engines for trains. So you can guess how many of these funerary papyri there may have been. So it may very well only be that not only did this papyri and many of the other documents. Of which only a few survive. May have only inspired him to write Peyton more detailed account of the traveling and life of Abraham.
I am going through that book again here soon but as I recall. It is nothing more than the assertion that Adam had more of a life than the extremely condensed version of the Old Testament which was posited by Moses in the first five books of the Bible.
You must remember that Moses was trained in the family of pharaoh. He would have had access to some very ancient knowledge. Probably including the Sumerian texts which go back tens of thousands of years. And Abraham was from the city of Ur, which is a Sumerian city. There is a lot that is not written about the Sumerians in the Bible. But this does indicate that Abraham may have been Sumerian and was obviously and the direct lineage of Adam and his family. Although I disagree that at the time of Abraham, not everyone was in the direct lineage of Abraham and his family. I do believe there were some peoples that survived the flood that's still had not been crossbred under the allegory of the fig tree with Adams progeny. However that is only a personal belief of mine.
It has far more to do with the original five races people known as the Ha-Adam. When Adam was created by God and, at least according to the Jewish tradition, became the first begotten son of the father. At least it's a loaded that way in Jewish tradition. That he became the sixth race which is why man is known under the number 6. And Christ becomes the number 8. But this race, being that tradition holds that it was red clay of brownish red, or Jasper color, is the Redskin. It is why Adam and David and Solomon and many more of the lineage between Adam and Christ are in the King James version of having ruddy complexion. They were Redskins. I have met Israelis whose family lineage stayed in Israel up until just the last 50 years or so. Believe me, they are naturally red skinned.
Surprisingly that is not pointed out in the book of Abraham. That is actually pointed out in the Old Testament, especially when it comes to David and his complexion.
But as I say that is my personal belief and I believe it is scripturally sound. Yet I do acknowledge that the scripture is not very plain on these things I have to draw from other information from outside biblical sources to say the least. But things that do not directly conflicted with the Bible or its primary narrative.
But if Abraham *actually did* write the papyri, all he did was write a common funerary text
Calling all learned Egyptologists to debunk or confirm this....
Zach Garver are you saying the Book of Abraham is a forgery?
Richard Holmes are you saying the Book of Abraham passes rigorous peer reviewed Egyptology?
Richard Holmes are you saying the real meaning, substance or intentions of a document, like for instance the Joseph Smith papyri, is irrelevant. That he can More or less conjure a holy book out of anything. A cookbook, a thesaurus, a dictionary, or any rare ancient text?
Richard Holmes pro or against?
Richard Holmes start over
This didn't answer a single question or prove anything. There is NO question that Smith claimed to "translate" the scrolls not interpret them. Since Joe didn't even translate one character right the church had to clam it was an interpretation.
The first 2 words "A Translation" is a lie.
It is proven to be *definately not* a translation, it is an inaccurate and plagiarised interpretation of the text. *NOT* translation *AT ALL*
You obviously haven’t done your research
@@SisterSunshine17 Havnt i? How did Joseph “translate” it?
Why do “Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists” agree that it is not a literal translation of the text.
All Egyptologists agree that it is a common funerary text, that has *NOTHING* to do with Abraham, and is not even from the same era as Abraham was supposed to have “written by his own hand”
@@SisterSunshine17 what are the right questions to ask, and who are the right people to ask them too?
The church has changed a lot. Brigham young said Adam was God, Bible states God and Jesus are one, uncreated, temple teaches us they are seperate, and that Jesus is our created brother, and eloheim is who we pray too.
I love that Athiest just say thats it been debunked, but never debunk it.
The extracts from the book of the dead, and has nothing to do with what Joseph smith said it was. He had no knowledge of ancient Egyptian, hieroglyphs, or any credibility to translate them especially before we could’ve actually translated them.
Atheist here. I can explain why many of us think that the book is a fraud, or the product of an imagination gone off the rails.
The papyrus that Smith translated or interpreted was rediscovered in the 1960's, which is confirmed by the LDS church. However, when Egyptologists independently and consistently translated the document, it turns out that Smith was 100% wrong about the meaning of the text, which is not written by Abraham, and is actually just an ordinary funerary text from the Egyptian book of the dead.
The LDS church does not dispute this.
Listen to an actual egyptologist. Listen to the two part episode preeminent egyptologist Dr. Robert Ritner did on the book.
Watch Dan Vogel's videos on it.
My dude, you can't be just throwing shade but refuse to look at the evidence. Compare the points this video makes with the ones that Dr. Ritner talks about.
You're smart enough.
@@samueldoctor3947 80% of the papyrus that JS used for the book of Abraham was lost in the Chicago museum fire. The only thing that was left was the book of breathing, a death ritual. Do your homework next time.
@@Madrok7 I don't see how that's relevant. We can compare the 'translation' proffered by JS to the interpretation of Egyptologists with actual credentials. We don't need the rest of the text to do that, because we can verify what JS was looking at by virtue of his own drawings that match the samples we still have on hand. There's no half-truth there. A direct comparison between the interpretation of JS and an independent interpretation by credentialed experts is contradictory.
Focusing only on what remains is sufficient to conclude that JS was wrong in his translation, at the very least in this specific way.
Again, this is not disputed by the LDS church. This is not trolling, by the way. The parent comment invited a response, and I gave one.
*What did they do with the mummies?* And were they supposed to be Abraham and Joseph?
I believe they went to a museum. In which it burned down and lost alot of the artifacts and scrolls
@@Headfirst-M80 Such is the way of all things temporal.
Scholars? You mean BYU apologetics. Egyptologists? You mean Gee and Muelstein. Again, BYU apologetics. Non-LDS scholars and non-LDS egyptologists laugh at this stuff.
Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid.
One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.
Just because something is set in the real world doesn't mean that it happened in real life. I mean, Fast and Furious is set in the real world.
You missed the point. The book of Abraham mentiond the plains of Olishem. This is in no other document, including the bible, and inscriptions have been found with reference to abraham, in the right place, and time period. This is a direct archaelogical find that wouldn't exist if the book of Abraham was a forgery. Get it.
@@kennethyoung7564 link a non LDS source to that.
Abraham is not considered a historical figure by scholars.
玛轼亚瑟 how could they know either way?
Vin Smith Good point. One cannot have proof that Abraham does not exist, but what we do have does not really support his existence. He’s more of a Hebrew myth like Romulus of the Romans.
玛轼亚瑟 so more of a mythical founding father than anything. A kind of missing link between god and man or a tribe. A tribal fable. Kind of like Jesus.
Vin Smith Jesus’s existence is less contested but his divinity is not a matter scholars can either confirm nor deny.
玛轼亚瑟 did you see the documentary Caesars messiah by Joseph atwill?
All lies
Why do you anti-Mormons show up and leave your bigoted comments?
@@richardholmes5676 For fun!!!
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists? Paul demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. What is your response?
Wow....smh Can we eisegesis!!!
1. First Abraham didn't historical live anywhere....he was an allegory. Paul speaks about this in Gal 4:21-31. Therefore, he didn't write anything....lol
2. You guys are reaching trying to connect names that don't sound alike, nor have the same meanings.
Who in the world is teaching you guys.....smh
God allowed racism in the true church of LDS for more than 100 years until he changed his mind because it was politically inconvenient and then "all became alike unto God"
Racism? Where? Joseph Smith ran for political office on the platform to end slavery. His anti Mormon so called christian minister enemies were pro- slavery. Best do some research before spreading false info.
@@henochparks I'm referring to the 1978 Devine revelation. When God manifested his will through the head authorities via a spiritual confirmation. I didn't say anything about Mr. Glasslooker Joseph Smith. Also don't forget the First Presidency urges LDS Saints to wear masks and get vaccinated. 👍
@@winstonsmith9512 humm what is a glass looker? Is it like the High priest of Israel who used the breast plate to get written messages from God? The revelation that was received in 1978 announced that all worthy males could hold the priesthood. Sometime that Jesus did not permit previously. And you point is?
Was it God who let that happen or the sinful humans with no remorse
It was more like (a multi billion dollar corporation) the true church of Latter-Day-Saints.
We don't need to spend money on our churches. Just build more temples!
Fake, Fake , Fake. Apologists are pitiful.
How so. The plains of olishem is mentioned, and an inscription matching that has been found. You attack the video, but don't address how this is possible. This is called confirmation bias in case you didn't know. In my case it isn't, because you have a feature that is corrobarated by archaelogy.
I can’t believe this book is actually believed by peopel
I can't believe that you're dumb enough to believe that the Egyptologists were right.
@@richardholmes5676 You would rather believe one man over the thousands that dedicate their lives into understanding egyptology? Unfortunately for Joseph, he didn't foreshadow the fact that Egyptology would become a deeply understood topic.
@@AndrewKuttorThe arrogant Egyptologists opinion is unneeded. Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. Care to refute?
@@richardholmes5676 so, I am trying to find peer reviewed information about his rebuttal. I have found stuff from him? But not the community as a whole.
@@richardholmes5676 I discovered this.
University of Chicago Egyptologist Robert K. Ritner concluded in 2014 that the source of the Book of Abraham "is the 'Breathing Permit of Hôr,' misunderstood and mistranslated by Joseph Smith",[107] and that the other papyri are common Egyptian funerary documents like the Book of the Dead.[98]
"Behold," through the rod of nature, saith the Lord God, "I would that ye should know that the Book of Abraham is a Comic Book, yea, even Biblical fan fiction."
If there is one true church then Satan owns all others. If Satan owns all others that means he will attack the true church persecute them. The church he attacks is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. So members of the church don't get angry about these comments against our church and try to .
@Ralph Wiggam you mean the golden plates?
@@joshua.snyder Karen is not my actual name
@@joshua.snyder no I did it as a joke
@@joshua.snyder 😂
@@KAREN-wj4bk have you not heard of the Kinderhook plates?
So the Rosetta stone was discovered in 1799 by 1815 seemingly accurate translations were written and printed in books. Many people have already written similar books to smiths. But how could a poor farmer boy be able to aquire that much knowledge and connect dots like this. It easily feasible now but then it would be rather difficult. If someone could respond id love a peaceful debate, available anytime after this comment is posted wether it be a week or 2 years.
@@binren3984 well again with the sacrifices. You see although it was a sanctioned attempt on his life it can still be read as a "sacrifice" because it is based in theology. They wished to kill him over him not worshiping a different set of gods, so in context it could be seen as a sacrafice. Also we know that the bible doesn't have all of the scripture included, such as the apocrypha and the early years of Jesus, and the acclaimed book of moses. We see that many of the stories we hear aren't seen in only one culture or belief. Another example would be like some of the lessons and stories the muslims give about Jesus. It can also be seen that much of the scripture that was given to jos. Smith was written in Egyptian, but as in any language it would change over time. In the book of Nephi it says that they wrote in yhe language of the egyptians and spoke Hebrew. That in of itself would have great changes not to add the centuries of elbowing literature which would eventually become later Mayan then Aztec languages.
Not elbowing evolving
@@binren3984 also thanks for responding
@@binren3984 thank you so much for this new understanding. I'll consider this a continue research in order to configure a new synopsis. I bow to you bin ren.
@@binren3984 😊
Purporting to be, but it wasn’t from Abraham at all and Joseph was bad at translation.
It's not that he was *bad* at translation. He couldn't translate at all. He pretended. It was fraud. He had a story he wanted to tell, so he pretended it came from this Egyptian Book of Breathing he bought off some guy. But the LDS cult can never admit that -- they must lie and camouflage and jump through these bizarre hoops like this guy. They can't admit it -- Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud.
I believe in Joseph Smith
@@WordSmithForge1 If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?
How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica?
How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names?
Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates?
How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts?
Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon's idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?
If there was no apostasy in the Church of Jesus Christ, then what happened to prophets?
If Joseph Smith just made up the idea of vicarious baptism for the dead, why do numerous ancient documents validate the LDS claim that this was an authentic early Christian practice?
At a time when all Christian churches taught that temples were no longer needed, how did Joseph so effectively restore the ancient temple concept on his own?
What other church better corresponds with early Christianity in terms of teaching the true relationship between faith, grace, and works?
Why do the earliest Christian writings sound much closer to LDS theology than they to modern "mainstream" Christianity?
If it's unchristian, unbiblical, and evil to believe that humans have divine potential, why do many Biblical and early Christian sources speak of the humans becoming "gods"?
If the Bible is infallible, by whose authority were the various books of the Bible selected in an infallible manner? By whose authority were the infallible translations made and approved?
Who authorized the changes in the ritual of baptism that occurred since the New Testament Church? And who in your church has true authority from God to perform baptisms?
If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then how do you account for the details in the text that would later be given extensive support by numerous ancient documents that were not available to Joseph Smith?
@@lootingiv4058 Many words -- wildly off topic and misguided -- without addressing the truth: "The Book of Abraham" was an obvious fraud, and Joseph Smith deliberately lied.
@@WordSmithForge1 but you cant answer the questions for a reason. period. im done replying to people with hard hearts
Dear LDS members, when you leave the church move your focus to the Bible alone. Joseph Smith's god and jesus are not the God and Jesus of the Bible, and once you let go of all that the LDS church teaches you will find that their entire purpose was simply to draw people away from the true Lord.
Dear AB. I was once of mainstream religion with good people whom rarely studied for themselves, but rather only went off of what ministers, pastors etc and friends would preach. Most people hardly understood the Bible but claimed they knew it through and through. They could rattle off all kinds of scripture quotes but rarely knew what it fully meant. Don’t bash that which you are unwilling to give a fair shot at understanding . The God and Jesus you say are Joseph’s are the same as the one you believe in. Open up your mind and put away your pride! For those that have eyes to see will see and those that have ears to hear will hear…….but if they are prideful and rely only on their own understanding they will not allow themselves the full knowledge of what God wants you to know. What will you say at judgement time? There is truth in all things but one but has to open his eyes. Good bless!
@@SisterSunshine17 Your whole faith relies on Joseph Smith. And every single time you can test his claims it turns out he was lying. Book of Abraham was a normal burial scroll. Nothing to do with abraham. The kinderhook plates which JS translates as somthing to do with biblical characters has been proven to be a hoax to make fun of JS.
The lost 116 pages showed that JS was not actually translated because he believed that if he was to attempt to translate them people that had the original pages would show him to be a fraud. So he just said that god told him they had changed the originals so to not be called a fraugh he couldnt translate it again.
Which is a huge problem. Why would a prophet of God care what others think. Wouldnt a phrophet of God tell the truth regardless of how others would see him.
JS is regardless as the Muhammad of the west. Look at Muhammad to see another fraud.
@@alejandromartin8347 Based on what you have said you assume much and have only listened to some peoples opinions but not proof. You try to use your words as proof that something is untrue and yet there is tremendous proof that the Book of Mormon was actual scripture. I don’t need to prove anything to you sir. I’m not a gullible person I am a critical thinker and fully do research coming from both sides before I decide on something. So I will just say to you I will agree to disagree. I do not attack others when I disagree with them but give them respect by letting them believe what they will. Everyone is on a different level of learning and it is only by pride and ignorance that one does not continue to learn. Good day sir.
@@SisterSunshine17 Yea looking at both sides is good. No problem I agree with you.
But under your criteria. What evidence would you need to show that Joseph Smith was a fraud. There must be something that you will accept. If not, why not believe in other fraud religions like Islam or whatever cults a person says God told them.
@@alejandromartin8347 while you have your opinion and your assumed proof which you haven’t proved just point out things , I have mine .
What utter nonsense! It never fails to amaze me how easy people will buy in to the absolute crap sold to the by religious fanatics, especially this one! LDS is just off the charts in terms of craziness.
Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Mussilini, Lenin etc killed over 100 million people in less than one century. They said the same thing as you. Do you intend to kill us?
Cope
@@LatterDayPup People are coping. This time the Jews and Mormons are armed. The Neo Nazis like you will suffer heavy loses.
In my opinion, the figure that Egyptologists call Osiris is actually Abraham. Abraham was the god or man of God that originally educated the Egyptians and gave them their knowledge of the stars. After he died, the Egyptians fell into idolatry again. And as time went on, they made up stories about Abraham based on ignorance and as their language evolved, they eventually called him Osiris. Abraham told the Egyptians that his wife was his sister. Osiris was purportedly married to his sister (Isis). Legends and myths and evolving language and corruption of the texts eventually led to the funerary scrolls. But they were originally written by Abraham. And most of the original papyrus was never recovered and has not been available.
I think you are correct in the aspect that whoever wrote the Book of Abraham wanted to establish Abraham as the teacher of the Egyptians. This is in the text itself. However, there is no way to know if this was recorded as an attempt to re-write history to elevate the culture the manuscript was written for.
It seems logical to me that Joseph Smith had several manuscripts, all from the same region of Earth, and they all expand or alter Biblical stories to apply to the region they were found. The funny part is, Joseph Smith obscured this and changed it to apply to Ancient America.
Most likely, all off the manuscripts Joseph Smith revealed, were discovered in the region South of Egypt. That's why he felt confident enough to claim the Book of Abraham was a translation of the papyri which was found in Southern Egypt.
If you ever get the chance to read The Kebra Negast. You will start to see exactly what I'm talking about.
The first historical record of Osiris appears about the same time as Abraham, 2300 BCE or around 2000 BC. I still suspect the myth of Osiris is based on the history of Abraham.
I am thankful that the Lord has not made things easy and fool proof. Otherwise we might have a church full of shallow, insincere people who are there only because of pristine museum evidence. God will require faith (spiritual evidence). He knows what He's doing. I’m also thankful for our scholar faithful's like Kerry Muhlestein, John Gee, Alexander L. Baugh, and Andrew H. Hedges. Dave Snell is outstanding as narrator, as usual.
Well said. 👍❤
I don’t believe God wants anyone to be faithful to an obvious lie. This video is false on many levels. Once one knows that facts one can plainly see that they are trying to mislead the audience.
1. There is no historical evidence of Egyptian human sacrifices to gods. This video implies such knowing this is false.
2. It uses the facsimile to try and show human sacrifice when it is well known to be about a funeral text.
3. It presents the idea of Northern Assyria being under Egyptian control, when it was not the case.
So much of this is wrong. Truth is not found in lies.
I read a book called Tutankhamun and the valley of kings, by Otto Neubert. that book was written in the 1950s. It's basically about Egyptology. He said the Frenchman Champollion was the father of Egyptology. He said Breasted was an important figure too. strange how Neubert never even mentioned Joseph Smith.
What an utterly nasty and abysmal comment section.
Mormons never like the truth!!! It ALWAYS destroys their unsupportable belief's. I will intelligently debate you on ANY topic related to Mormon theology or history, ANYTIME, ANY WHERE my friend
@@corybritton1966 you do that. but lets see what happens on judgement day
Yes Marsh, I hope BMC will delete the deceit; take out the trash!
Then tell the anti-Mormon cult pieces of crap to leave.
Is there actually any reason to read the text skipping the fact that Joseph Smith did not translate the papyri accurately? Why the hurry to get to the Book of Abraham when Joseph Smith doesn't even get out of the starting gate? THE issue is Joseph Smith, not the Book of Abraham.
There were many more papyri than the ones that made it through the fire at the museum. His translation could have been a different papyrus. We already know that JS translated the BoM by what would be considered magical means. If he got so many details right, why wouldn't Occam's razor suggest that his claim makes sense.
@@welcome2school so your saying he didn’t translate them all? lol more mental gymnastics. How about when he’s changed his mind several times or lying about polygamy . A prophet of the most high is not going to go lie. If his information was wrong he would be considered false prophet, the scripture is clear on this well before Joseph.
@@Aoekin He translated what he needed to translate. How did he get so many details right as a farm boy making up religious details?
@@welcome2school Because we have the papyrological evidence. The papyri returned in 1969 are the original for the Book of Abraham as Robert Ritner unfailingly demonstrated.
@@welcome2school Except the church stats the papryi they have is the legit real ones he used.
Any more of these coming in the future?
They are still in production, but the next one is in editing.
We just published one about the facsimiles here:
ruclips.net/video/YlFmh5ttq1c/видео.html
I reckon you are an active member of the church. You are very selective with the language you use and in my opinion that can be somewhat misleading. You can say that Smith had divine inspiration to write the book, and that they found similarities in history that point to his story to be accurate. But if you want to tell the whole story you should also explain that in one hand "Smith claimed" that he TRANSLATED the Egyptian papyrie (you can find that in the intro of the book,) but that turned out to be false. Experts in the matter say the Egyptian text was from a different era and it was not written by Abraham. The church itself recognized that and said that he actually received inspiration to write the book. The problem here is that the church contradicted Smith's narrative, is the book divine or not? It is interesting if you can name all of the coincidences in history to explain this very interesting story but you should invite people to read the book with a very critical eye to analyze it and learn from it having all of the facts to consider.
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014. Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. Paul has clearly demonstrated this on his videos. This is where it stands.
@@richardholmes5676 nonsense
@@MarcoH72 Could you expand on that?
So BYU scholars (BYU is funded by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) have published a paper on how many ancient documents not of religious origin have the same heading, (that is: written by his, her, or their own hand) while at the same time the material it was written on dates much later time wise than when the original author could have written it.
Here is what the article concludes:
The heading [of the Book of Abraham] does not [necessarily] indicate that Abraham had written that particular copy but rather that he was the author of the original. . . . A text, regardless of how many copies of it exist in the world, is written by one author. However, each copy of that text is a manuscript. . . . We all know that when an author of the ancient world wrote something, if those writings were to survive or be disseminated, the text had to be copied again and again and again, for generation upon generation. When the heading states that the text was written by Abraham’s own hand, it notes who the author is, not who copied down the particular manuscript that came into Joseph’s possession.19
And I say BYU scholars to denote that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is aware of this misconception and scholars have addressed it. 👍👍
Could you do a similar video of the book of Moses in the pearl of Great Price? I notice nobody ever comments on this book like they do the Book of Abraham. Where did it come from? The Church issued a Gospel Topic essay that tries to explain the Book of Abraham origins but poorly so. A recently retire BYU professor who is an expert on the Book of Abraham was recently granted a podcast interview by Radio Free Mormon and opened up about the numerous problems with the Book of Abraham. Also watch the BBC documentary interview with Jeffrey Holland and watch him get flustered as he tries to explain the Book of Abraham.
@@richardholmes7199 refuted? You mean I disagreed with you so far you have offered nothing that could be considered a valid refutation.
@@richardholmes7199 which is it a translation or a revelation? please decide
@@richardholmes7199 no just clarifying what you actually believe, it is either one or the other
@@richardholmes7199 seriously, decide what you believe
@@richardholmes7199 it really is a simple question let me know when you can commit to a belief then we can move on.
The best evidence of the book of abraham is exodus 20 no other gods verse. Honestly. The verse translates eloheim jahovah and gods all with 3 different words. Use strongs concordence to identify words... its basically abramhams... the (gods) created the universe. Eloheim meaninh gods simplified.
But for those who believe in the three parts of God... this is also more open to interpretation. Eloheim could be your trinity or the God head in mormon terms
I'm sorry, I don't intend to be rude, however, this video is taking a far reaching notion of evidences that cannot be considered evidence at all. To claim Joseph Smith received directly from God, and yet these details you've shared are still not correct entirely. To think that the God of all creation can't even get His prophet to correctly name a god is quite sad theology. To piece together such so called evidences shows a complete lack of evidence in the text. The truth is that the entire book is wrong, the time of text and events are wrong, and Joseph said he translated not interpreted. Don't fool yourself. Look at the facts
Slow it down next time.
It’s easier, to mask this nonsense the faster he goes.
📙💯
Wonderful video, it is obvious a lot of time and effort was put into this. Thank you!
@@lynnlpickering9076 I hope you have a wonderful day today! ☺️ Please keep your chin up and don't give up!
Is this a joke?
Love the book of Abraham. If there is any book other than the Book of Mormon that proves that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, it's the Book of Abraham.
It’s like those who beleive the earth is flat no matter what evidence is revealed. They aren’t interested in actual truth. Just justifying their emotions. (Their real god).
@@buckweaver4584 knowing that words and symbols have different meanings to different people is not equivalent to disbelieving the world is round.
@@boturner8328
Foundation - A basis (such as a tenet, principle, or axiom) upon which something stands or is supported.
"The story of Mormonism must stand or fall on Joseph Smith." - Joseph Fielding Smith
-Deuteronomy 18:20-22 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken..."
Examples of false prophecies:
• Joseph Smith said that before the last of that generation would pass away, there would be a temple constructed on Temple Lot in Missouri. The last of that generation passed away many generations ago, and yet no temple has ever been built there.
• Joseph Smith gave a prophecy that the Book of Mormon would be printed in Canada, however, that printing press rejected it.
• Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus would return by 1891 - based on Joseph's own lifespan (History of the Church,Vol.2,p182)
• Joseph Smith prophesied that Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs would die a violent death within a year of expelling the Mormons from Missouri (despite the fact that Joseph hired an assassin to "fulfill" this prophecy, Boggs did not die in the prophesied timeframe.
Examples of false translations:
• The Kinderhook Plates was a modern-day test for Joseph Smith. A merchant and blacksmith at the time had seen an advert put out by the Mormon church where they were offering to purchase artifacts of any kind. The merchant hired the blacksmith to create a set of brass plates with a made-up language scratched onto the surface, the pair buried the plates for some time, and then offered them to Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith purchased the plates with the church's money, and had this to say about them: “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth.” (this quote came from the official LDS website). It wasn't until much later that the church discovered the plates were modern forgeries when they paid to have the plates (still in their possession). *This blunder has been mentioned in the Ensign a few times.
• The Book of Abraham. The actual papyri he "translated" from were part of an Egyptian funerary text called the Book of Breathings. The very same papyri he acquired, which were thought to be lost after a fire, were found and returned to the church. The leaders had a number of reputable Egyptologists examine and translate them (again, the very same papers Joseph Smith had worked with, complete with his own hand-drawn facsimiles), and they found that Smith's "translation" had not gotten even a single word correct. It is worth noting that the Rosetta Stone had not been discovered at Smith's time, and ancient Egyptian was considered a dead language that no one could translate - therefore, Smith could do or say whatever he liked without fear of being fact-checked (we know that this did not remain so, however, and now we know the Book of Abraham he wrote was a complete fraud).
JOSEPH SMITH'S CRIMINAL HISTORY
Joseph Smith had an extensive criminal record that the LDS church has tried to erase (but the many court records still remain to substantiate the claims against his character).
• Joseph Smith married more than 30 women, some as young as 14, against his first wife's wishes.
• Joseph Smith was convicted in a court of law for fraud and being a disorderly person - ironically, he was convicted of fraud for using the very same seer stone he used to "translate" the Book of Mormon to charge people to find buried treasure on their land (just 18 months before starting his work on the Book of Mormon).
• Joseph Smith started a fake bank, which lost many members their life's savings. He used a chest filled with sand and topped off with silver and gold coins to fool people into investing with him. This was a federal crime, and he was wanted for it at the time of his death.
• Sarah Pratt, wife of Orson Pratt, accused Smith of forcing many of his secret plural wives to get abortions from Dr. Bennett.
• Joseph Smith was an arsonist - he and a group of Mormons burned down the Nauvoo Expositor because the owners had threatened to publish anti-Mormon literature. He was in prison at the time of his death for the crime of burning the Nauvoo Expositor to the ground.
• Joseph Smith was also wanted (at the time of his death) in Missouri for conspiracy to commit murder, because he ordered Orrin Porter Rockwell to kill Lilburn Boggs, the Missouri governor (Smith prophesied that Boggs would meet a violent end within the year after ordering the Mormons out of Missouri, and when asked where Rockwell was shortly after, Smith was recorded as replying, "He is off fulfilling prophecy!"). Porter Rockwell, a member in good standing, boasted that he had killed more than 150 men at the request of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
• Joseph Smith had nearly been castrated on at least one occasion for his sexual misconduct (this does not happen to someone who is behaving themselves).
• Joseph Smith went to the grave as a murderer himself, when he shot back and killed two people the night he was killed. That is absolutely, unequivocally NOT the behavior of a martyr.
MORMONISM’S EMPHASIS ON JOSEPH SMITH:
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (‘Mormon Doctrine’, Pg. 472 & ‘Doctrines of Salvation’, vol. 2).
“Salvation comes only through the church itself as the Lord established it. Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church.” - Apostle Mark E. Petersen (April 8, 1973 General Conference)
“How are you going to get your resurrection? You will get it by the President of the resurrection pertaining to this generation, and that is Joseph Smith Junior. Hear it all ye ends of the earth; if ever you enter into the kingdom of God it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jews and Gentiles, to the bond, and the free; to friends and foes; no man or woman in this generation will get a resurrection and be crowned, without Joseph Smith saying so. The man who was martyred in Carthage Jail, State of Illinois, holds the keys of life and death to this generation. He is the President of the resurrection in this dispensation.” - Brigham Young (Sermon given October 8, 1854. Also found on page 99 of Eugene E. Campbell’s book titled ‘The Essential Brigham Young’).
There is much, much, much more, but you get the point.
@@buckweaver4584 FAIR and many other people have debunked and has explanations to all of your claims here.
@@boturner8328
Except that they don’t. Only the brainwashed can’t see Joseph Smith for the absolute con he was. When you’ve been brainwashed in to a cult, you don’t go to cult leaders for truth. I understand going outside of the cult for info isn’t allowed. You can’t debunk fabrication with more fabrication, logic and reason don’t work that way.
The Rosetta stone has ended this debate not true not credible
@Mike Siler1 just a few days ago I watched a RUclips video where Richard Dawkins commented that the success of the Mormon religion is depressing since it’s such obvious work of a fraud.
The bible proves that Ur couldn’t have been in southern Turkey because Abraham sent his servant back to his homeland to his relatives in MESOPOTAMIA to find his son Isaac a wife.
Mesopotamia fits in with Babylonia or modern day Iraq which is where reputable scholars say Ur of the chaldeans was
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014.
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
@@gordianknot9595 Might I suggest further research.
So desperate to find a complicated answer so it sounds more plausible... "in Egyptian sister means wife so he wasn't lying!" No. That's a debatable usage. Maybe your mormon egyptologists gave you that. But you've missed the easy answer. She WAS his sister. Half sister. But who ever says the half? Not even ancient Jews. Maybe if you read a bible once in a while instead of just your own stuff you'd know that.... they were related....
she was his aunt. However in Egyptian the word for sister and wife is the same.
if you want proof that Joseph Smith was correct ask an Egyptologist what is the purpose of facsimile #2 in the Egyptian tradition. Ask an Egyptologist what is the real name of the Egyptian text. He will say the coming forth of Ra the God of light, or the coming forth of the light. Factsimile #2 is about the coming forth of the light. Hummm The Coming forh of Light and Joseph Smiths translation of the path of light from Kolob (K'olob means the center as in the center of the Universe) to the earth. An accident?
Genesis 20:11 (AKJV) "And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife’s sake. 21 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."
Biologically Sarah was Abraham's halfsister. Legally she was Abraham's sister since they had the same father.
Just 2000 b.c. ??? He was in the times of Sumerians, to believe in one God! Not like other community's around back then. Created all the other needed gods.