I've been reading through a lot of the comments on this video, and I read through some comments on other church videos. There are a lot of people for and against the Church commenting in these official church videos. Someone curious about the Church could watch one of these videos and have their faith lifted, then read the comments and have their faith crushed. Active members of the Church could be lead away. Yet, despite having the ability to disable comments, none of their videos have comments disabled! The result of this is a very rich, dynamic conversation about Church topics and doctrines. I really value that the Church puts 'their money where their mouth is' and doesn't just preach agency, but actively chooses to allow agency by having their comments sections enabled. The conversations between members, non-members, and anti-members are really enjoyable to read and I can't help but think that the world could take a lesson here. Instead of shutting down views that you disagree with, it's so much nicer to hear and be heard and learn together.
I participate pretty actively in comments in the Now You Know series. I do so with hopes of being helpful to people, and from some responses I've seen, I feel like I've succeeded, and at other times I've felt like I missed the mark a bit. Overall, I still hope that my efforts have been beneficial for at least some people, and in the meanwhile, by engaging in positive discussions with people--even those who are clearly using their voice to try to detract from the Church of Jesus Christ--I have learned a lot. I've tried to understand where they're coming from and not be overly dismissive of their concerns. If nothing else, the comments section have helped me to gain a deeper understanding.
I appreciate how the church acknowledges that the remaining fragments don't correlate with the Abraham text, but also gives some possible explanations, opposed to saying "Oh the scholarly evidence is wrong" Cool stuff!
Archeologists in Egypt have to do decades of research in order to understand the whole history of mummies etc. Joseph Smith did it in a breathtaking! True or hoax?
@@pauljongen3022 I think you left out a time period in your reply (breathtaking _____?), but Joseph Smith did not succeed in doing scholarly translation. What he relied on for anything that members of the Church of Jesus Christ consider scripture is revelation. Revelation doesn't have to take a long time.
Just an afterthought: if I were Abraham, and I've just wrote a very important revelation from God, why would I leave it in the hands of a people that I have no affinity with. I would have taken the scrolls with me, and hand it down to my decendants, my children, who I believe would be in a much better position to understand, preserve and pass down my revelation.
@@robwagner7545 he didn't die there. Nor did he mean to leave any sacred scripture (had he have written any) if he ever wrote one. It's a pagen land. Why would he?
@@ashishstanley The Book of Abraham wasn't written in reformed Egyptian, that's why people claim they can decipher it with the Rosetta Stone. The Book of Mormon was in reformed Egyptian. I agree with the Church's essay and that's why I still have hope the Book of Abraham to be true. According to both the Church and Egyptologists their statements are based on incomplete information and a hypothesis. I agree the best way is comparing Abraham's account with Genesis and Moses's account about the creation.
Hello. Can you please add an addendum to the video explaining how the translated pictures & symbols that Joseph wrote of Facsimile 1 & 2 are also inaccurate based on commonly known Egyptology, with faith-promoting explanations as to why that might be? I can't reconcile that part and am troubled by it. Many of us like myself have been members our whole lives and it comes as a surprise when we find out that we weren't taught the whole picture on the Book of Abraham. It pains me to say this because I am an active member of the church just looking for answers, but this video does not paint the entire picture to make an educated decision about what happened w/ the book of Abraham. All of the critical parts are missing or glossed over. For example, I found it particularly shocking when I found out that Joseph interpreted Egyptian God of "Min" (Facsimile No. 2, figure 7) as representing God sitting in his throne, when in reality it was the Egyptian ithyphallic god, that is, a sexually aroused male Egyptian deity. You can even see the male raised male anatomy in the facsimile itself, and I learned it is common Egyptology that existed 1,000 years after Abraham even lived (at the time of the funerary text). This was shocking to me and has given me sleepless nights because my paradigm has shifted on what I thought I knew and trusted about this scripture. There are so many critical parts of the gospel that I love that come out of this text. How do I reconcile that a prophet of God (Joseph) had this interpretation, and if he got something this basic wrong, how do I trust that any of the text in the Book of Abraham is actually inspired, and for that matter the Book of Mormon? Would love to get a satisfactory answer to this so I can sleep at night again, it is really eating me up. It has also been shown that the facsimiles themselves that are attached to the texts that have been recovered, and in the Book of Abraham it references those facsimiles, clearly indicating that the found papyri is the papyri that Joseph was using to translate. The word Abraham is not even mentioned on that Papyri. I've learned all of this for the first time this past year after going my whole life thinking the narrative in this video was the whole truth. I wouldn't have known any better except for the fact that I've now done hundreds of hours studying this very subject. It seems it would be more genuine to those of us truly seeking answers to just present all of this transparently rather than gloss over the facts. Perhaps admit the papyri had nothing to do w/ Abraham and focus on the fact that Joseph was using inspiration? That approach would come across as more genuine to me. As it is, I feel upset as if the facts are being glossed over and I'm being "tricked".
Have you prayed to God about it? He's very good at reconciling things for us and giving us patience during the times when we have unanswered questions.
Also, I'm definitely not an expert on ancient Egyptian writings, but I haven't seen any pictures that depict Min sitting like the individual in Figure 7, and the classic Min headdress is not present in Figure 7 either. The "raised male anatomy" you mention is way too high to be the anatomy you suggested. It is located where an arm would extend forward when the upper arm is hanging down at the side. The only real similarity I see is a possible depiction of Min's flail, but I don't think that's a good enough indicator by itself to determine that the individual depicted is Min. Could there be some connection to Min in some way? Maybe; it's entirely plausible that some ancient mythology is related to actual truth known by ancient prophets, perhaps as corrupted forms of truth. One thing we do know about God is that He is a creator of life. I have no idea whether the original writings of Facsimile 2 predate depictions of Min, but one one hand I am not surprised to see some elements depicted in more than one ancient image, and on the other I don't think there's anywhere near enough visible indicators to definitively suggest that Figure 7 shows Min. Again, I'm no expert, but it just seems too far a stretch.
Thanks for your comment, Jason. We encourage you to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay emphasizes, the Book of Abraham is sacred scripture produced with the help of revelation. The veracity and value of the book isn’t settled by scholarly debate, but in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit. We hope that helps!
Hi Jason, I agree that the whole story regarding The Book of Abraham makes me skeptical. The most likely solution I found was that Joseph used the texts he bought to justify telling the story he wanted to tell. The original purpose or meaning for the texts was unimportant to him because no one at the time would have been able to double check his work. (Modern scholars believe that the papri are funeral texts that include the "Breathing Permit of Hôr" and the "Book of the Dead", neither of which have anything to do with Abraham nor does the date they were written necessarily correlate with Abraham's life). I'll let you decide for yourself what that says about Joseph's character and the value of the book itself. Of course I could be wrong but personally I trust the word of people who study Ancient Egyptian for a living over the word of someone who had no experience with Ancient Egyptian. Please remember that just because someone is important it doesn't mean that they can't be dishonest. Humans are flawed and the things they create are flawed as well. Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, Cain killed his brother, and David committed adultery with Bathsheba. I think it's just as important we remember to question the scriptures and since they are written by flawed humans we can expect flawed passages. Also keep in mind the church has a vested interest in defending the authenticity of the book so the church itself will never ostracize it regardless of if the book is true or not. I hope you can reconcile where this book belongs within your personal faith. Bless
This is the hardest doctrine for me. It's been frustrating for me, but I've been putting it off as something I'll get an answer that will satisfy me eventually. Knowing what I do about ancient Egyptian mythological and the burial methods, it is easy to see what the papyrus actual meant. The most reasonable explanation I've heard so far has been that the papyrus acted as a "key". That could be true, but it hasn't satisfied the questions yet. I am glad the church put out an official video about it. For awhile certain things weren't talked about, so it felt like being covered up, which was hard to deal with. Note, I'm a faithful member, not interested in being told to be strong or trying to hate on the church. Just sharing my experience.
Night Angel, remember that the most important part of seeking truth is to seek it from God directly. Not every answer comes immediately, but reassurance through the Holy Ghost does.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. It's the first video of the second series of videos from one by the name of Paul Gregersen. Paul debunked the egyptologists by demonstrating Joseph Smith was never, like the egyptologists and the anti-Mormon crowd assumed, supposed to translate like an egyptologist to begin with. In other words, Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists were wrong.
@@alannacarlson6715 The "CES Letter" was designed only to undermine people's faith while providing nothing in return. We also don't have to turn away from a witness we receive from God just because anyone else tells us to. The Church of Jesus Christ has provided information, and there's no fault in that.
@@alannacarlson6715 Those of us who've had the time to study know a majority of points in the CES Letters are inaccurate. If you're a Christian your claim is hypocritical regarding logic. According to logic the Bible as well as well as all the other scriptures is false. For example, it's so illogical to believe the Red Sea was divided to let Moses cross on dry land according to logic. What you must remember if you're Christian is God's thoughts and ways are not our thoughts and ways. So just because our way of translating Egyptian is by deciphering doesn't mean it's God's way.
Knowing that the church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints is the only true church upon the earth, and knowing this by The Power Of The HOLY SPIRIT, makes all clear that even many will doubt, I will not. I testify solemnly by The Spirit of Prophecy and Revelation that Joseph Smith was a prophet of GOD. He indeed spoke with FATHER and CHRIST face to face.
If you have read the Bible it will tell you a lot of things that are contrary to Mormonism. The LDS church teaches that Jesus and Satan were brothers but Jesus is GOD and he was an angel. There is no such thing as the 3 kingdoms celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdom. The Bible talks about the new Jerusalem that will come to the new earth where we will live with our resurrected bodies. Isaiah 43:10 says “Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” Elohim used to be human and became a god and was brought up into god hood according to the LDS church but it is not what the Bible says because there is no other god than GOD.
@@JesusMorales-ho2tr I will caution you that you don't actually know the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ, so you should refrain from trying to tell other people what they are. I am happy to inform you that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do indeed study the Bible, and you can find the King James Version on the Church's web site here: ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures/. If you'd like to learn more about what is taught in the Church of Jesus Christ, you can learn more at ComeUntoChrist.org.
If Joseph Smith was being metaphorical about the Book of Abraham, and it wasn't a literal translation, why wasn't he being metaphorical when he said he literally spoke with the Father and Christ face to face?
My favorite part from this book is in Ch 3 11-12. When Abraham talks with the Lord face to face, and then in the next verse the Lord address him as his son and stretches out his hand. This kind of relationship with the Lord speaks to me, I feel it even stronger now as I have my own son and can reach out my hand to him.
You have not heard of the "still missing scroll" theory espoused by Dr Gee from BYU. He used some statistical method to argue the actual scroll was included in the scroll that has Fac 1 and what is called the Book of Breathings. Here is a response to Dr Gee. As yet I have not seen any response by Dr Gee.
Yes, and since the book of Abraham is the krux of Mormonism, wouldn’t you think those scrolls would be super important to keep? It sounds like they carelessly got lost, which is very curious, just sayin.
Michael, you’re missing the point. Jospeh said it was written by Abraham. One thing this white washed video doesn’t mention is when the fragments were found, they were tested and the time period wasn’t even close to Abraham. Concluding there’s no way it was written by Abraham.
@@RB-zh1eq Such a demonstration would be faulty. The Church of Jesus Christ stands and God blesses millions of His children through it, despite efforts to detract from it.
The fragments that were found, were valid parts of the work that Joseph smith used to help him translate the BOA, yet, the prophet interpreted the illustrations wrong, the alphabet wrong, and the fragments that were left wrong. Joseph smith tried to explain these fragments that eventually were found today, but was innacurate. The church essays describe this (but with very careful wording). So the church went from "he translated these papyrus" to "he used the papyrus to inspire him to write the BOA. This is an issue, because if you can say that from the BOA, then you can make anything up. It may be an inspiring book, but back in the day, you can find many authors who wrote inspiring books that are not nessesarily non-fiction.
Maxwell's Unearthly, Here's the problem people who disbelieve have to solve, the Egyptologists themselves confess they don't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian. Some scholars have proven the Egyptologists are possibly the ones mistaken, notice I wrote possibly. The problem then is since mankind today doesn't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian how do we know who's right? I believe The Book of Abraham because of all the correlation between The Bible and The Book of Abraham. For example, both state that 1000 years in our time is one day where God is. Then that provides a scientific explanation of how the earth was created in 6 days, if it's 6 days in God's time that means the earth was created in 6000 years.
I thought it was interesting what the video described about how many of these fragments may not have been used in the translation, and that the papyrus that was used has since been lost. I agree that the history of the Book of Abraham can be confusing to follow, but somehow when I pray about it I still feel the Spirit. That's a good enough answer now for me.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 There are multiple translations of the Bible in even a single language, and any thorough student of the Bible will see that they're not all equally valid. Additionally, there are instances where wording has simply been added; look up the Johannine Comma, for example. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ use the King James Version, which is available at ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures. As to believing by faith "on feelings", I responded to your comment on the video entitled, What Are the Book of Mormon Gold Plates? | Now You Know (ruclips.net/video/4EUGSlra2Cg/видео.html) and you may find my thoughts insightful.
Your comment of '''Joseph Smith tried to explain these fragments that were found today, but was innacurate.'' Inaccurate in the minds of those unintelligent enough to have assumed Joseph Smith was supposed to render a revelation/explanation that concurred with the translation from the egyptologists. The EGYPTOLOGISTS were DEBUNKED for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist, why are you repeating the same ole anti-Mormon LIES?
Jay Britton Fisher I pray but I also trust all the scientist who say this has nothing to do with Abraham. Don’t follow blind like a sheep do your research.
@@jamesbenson4943 This was directly addressed in the video. If you go in with the wrong expectations, you're bound to be disappointed. And please be assured, I have done quite a bit of research and when I follow, it's not blindly at all.
@@jcee6886 My approach has been to seek truth both by examining information available and consulting with God, who is knowledgeable and wise. I'm wary of confirmation bias; it's a mistake to assume such about others when you don't know their background.
Jay Britton Fisher then I don't understand how the book of Abraham was translated from the funeral text if they're separate documents from separate authors. Can you explain what I'm missing?
@@kenhilker2507 You are looking for the answer of what things are, not how to be. Taking a scientific approach to religion will keep you from the greater l truths with respect on how to be. Take it from a LDS individual who is also a graduate of science.
He can’t explain that nor can the church apologists! The truth is, the church’s claim that the book of Abraham was “written by Abraham’s own hand” is actually false! Welcome to the entrance of the the Mormon church rabbit hole! It dark, deep and treacherous!
According to saints in gospel library, Joseph was interested in the scrolls and raised $2400 for them. They were struggling financially as they were working on the Kirtland Temple.
I thought they bought the plundered Egyptian mummies to turn a side show profit in the upstairs of their storehouse and the scrolls just happened to be with the bodies they bought.
@@fieldmyestas6184 The Church's history is not being rewritten in the sense of changing the history, products and programs they're making are making it easier to understand. Not many of today's people are willing to research nor are taught how to choose trustworthy sources, no doubt from their reactions they look at the 19th century through a 21st century lense. 30 years ago gay marriage was against the law, wouldn't today's people view that as discrimination? The world's sense of right and wrong continually changes with time. Most people I come across and producers of anti-church material have no intention to understand things. Who would compare the Nephites following the law of Moses in Old Testament times to the New Testament? "The Book of Mormon contradicts the New Testament because they shed animals." The Nephites were following the law of Moses in 2 Nephi so of course it's going to give different teachings to the New Testament after Christ fulfilled the law of Moses. Trust me, lots of people on anti-church material have intended to mislead me and trick me, especially with partial truths. • What do we know about the producer? • What is the purpose of the material? • Is the producer qualified? • Does the producer get anything out of it? • Does the producer have some kind of agenda? To know whether a source can be trusted or not depends on who the producer is and his/her intentions.
the church has posted a more in-depth essay about the Book of Abraham at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
Just one question for you about the essay you mentioned. Can you find anywhere in there where it mentions to members of the church that we have three different manuscripts from Joseph's scribes that have the characters from a common funerary text called the Book of Breathings in one column (the same ones that come after facsmile 1 on the papyrus that is in the church's possession), and the Book of Abraham in the adjacent column. This is the most important piece of evidence on the matter, clearly indicating that the Breathings text is what Joseph believed he was translating from. And yet this most crucial piece of evidence is intentionally withheld from the essay. Food for thought. If you want truth you'll have to look beyond the essays, though I do recommend starting with them.
@@russellash8458 Today's people still don't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian including the Egyptologists, that explains why the Egyptologists never confirmed themselves correct. Even though this can't be solved through scholarship and debate, just Google is the book of Abraham true, you'll then receive some results saying it's true, and others saying it's false. The truth is, we don't know who's translated correctly or neither.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having questions pertaining to this or anything related to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I grew up in the church but that being said we never held scripture study in my home so most of my testimony of Jesus Christ and His Church comes from personal experiences, prayer, and personal revelation that I've received for myself, rather than an extensive knowledge of scriptures and church history. In the past few years I realized that I wasn't comfortable with my testimony being where it is so I'm starting what I call a "question journal". As I read scriptures/listen to conference talks/ research church history/ etc, I write down ANY question that comes to mind. Then I search for the answers. And I'm surprised that I'm having fun with it! I'm finding that the more questions that I answer, the more questions that I have which is so awesome! I hope I never stop learning about Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ, the Church (and its history), and even myself. If I ever stop learning then I will stop progressing.
I don't see how the missing fragments/missing scroll theory makes sense when the text of BoA refers to the facsimile that we have and that facsimile doesn't have anything to do with Abraham. Also Smith started his own Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar to figure out of the characters of the papyri used for BoA. Those characters that Smith thought were translated into the BoA are on the papyri fragments the church now possesses. Also, if the whole thing was done by inspiration with no relation to the text, didn't God deceive Joseph by letting him think it was on the papyri? It would be like the gold plates of BoM having zero to do with the published BoM.
The Smithsonian Institute obtained the supposed scroll AND SAID THAT SMITHS INTERPRETATION WAS TOTALLY WRONG, SO MUCH SO HE DIDN’T GET ONE THING RIGHT! LETTERS TO THIS AFFECT ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE!
From what I've studied on the subject, my understanding is that the message in the Book of Abraham was never written in Egyptian, but rather it was written in code so that the sacred things Abraham wrote would not be discovered. At the end of the "translation" process, Joseph Smith still couldn't read Egyptian, but he did discover the encoded message Abraham left on the papyri. In other words, the actual Egyptian characters on the papyri had very little to do with the actual message Joseph Smith was trying to extract. At least, that's my take on the matter. We're all entitled to our own beliefs.
@@FormerMPSGT I see nothing at all to that effect from the Smithsonian. I do know that the Smithsonian's official statement about the Book of Mormon is that they do not use it as a historical reference, and that they don't find a connection between the cultures of the Book of Mormon and the North American cultures known from archaeological study, and that is exactly what I would expect. If you're looking for a statement from the Smithsonian that attacks the Church of Jesus Christ, you won't find it.
I'm just now noticing this vid from 3 years ago so commenting late but... A few thoughts to consider: In facsimile No. 1 -The figure laying down has moving legs (in the air and seperated) indicating he is alive - this is not seen in other funeral papyri -The figure standing at the left is standing straight up - other funeral papyri show that figure leaning over the figure laying down. This indicates the standing figure is doing something different toward the figure laying down than what it is doing in other funeral papyri -The figures under the person laying down is different than in other funeral papyri, indicating maybe a different ritual is being performed here -I like to watch a lot of documentaries and a couple I've seen regarding the dead sea scrolls have mentioned it is common for these scrolls and others to be the copies of the original writings. Every scripture in existance is a copy or copy of a language translation of the original writings and yet we say those writings were written by the original writers, because the original documents were written by them regardless if it is a copy. So it is very possible that these papyri found among the dead sea scrolls were written copies of the original documents which were written by Abraham to preserve his writings. -Egyptologists' understanding and knowledge changes and the consensus among some Egyptologists are different. Just recently Egyptologists are starting to admit, because of what geologists are discovering about the Sphynx, that it is much older than they had previously thought and the carving of the head being much newer than the rest of the carvings wasn't decided until recently just before that -The church did not say they are funeral papyri, but that there are Egyptologists who believe they are - probably because of how similar they are to funeral papyri. But history shows our understanding of Egyptolgy isn't stagnant and the differences are there -Something worth adding is with the head of the figure standing which was missing from the papyrus and drawn differently than how it probably was originally isn't significant to the story being told from the Papyrus since it is mentioned in the translation he was an Egyptian Priest attempting to sacrifice young Abraham (Abram at the time). That is the information that was important -Regarding facsimiles No. 2 & 3 - for now I will repeat a couple points from above: -Egyptology's understanding and knowledge changes and the consensus among some Egyptologists are different. Just recently Egyptologists are starting to admit, because of what geologists are discovering about the Sphynx, that it is much older than they had previously thought and the carving of the head being much newer than the rest of the carvings wasn't decided until recently just before that -I like to watch a lot of documentaries and a couple I've seen regarding the dead sea scrolls have mentioned it is common for these scrolls and others to be the copies of the original writings. Every scripture in existance is a copy or copy of a language translation of the original writings and yet we say those writings were written by the original writers, because the original documents were written by them regardless if it is a copy. So it is very possible that these papyri found among the dead sea scrolls were written copies of the original documents which were written by Abraham to preserve his writings -The church did not say they are funeral papyri, but that there are Egyptologists who believe they are - probably because of how similar they are to funeral papyri. But history shows our understanding of Egyptolgy isn't stagnant and the differences are there Last thoughts - Each time anything comes forth disputing the validity and truthfulness of the church and the character of the Lord's anointed it has always been a test for the members to see if they will remember the many evidences throughout their lives of its truthfulness, the many confirmations of the Spirit, the immense peace and blessings from living the gospel, and the other things which have already intellectually and scientifically supported church scriptures and beliefs. Often the answers to our questions do not come until after the trial of our faith. And Christ said how blessed are they who have believed without seeing. While we are encouraged to gain knowledge and understanding to confirm truths in the mind, heart, and soul, God knows we will not always know the things of the mind and until then asks us to trust him who has all knowledge. We also know we can gain truths for ourselves directly from the Source if we ask and seek with patience and humility. God delights in sincere seekers of truth.
I'll be happy to help you understand the passage. In it, the apostle John referred to "this book", which could not have meant the Bible because it didn't exist in a single volume until several hundred years later. I would encourage you to learn more about how the Bible in its various forms has come to be. For many decades, while the Bible did not exist, it would have been obvious to everyone who read his words there that he was referring to the book that we call Revelation. Moses wrote basically the same thing toward the end of his own writings in Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, but it would be silly to say that no prophetic writings could follow, just as it would be silly to try to close God's mouth and say that He cannot give more revelation to man. John's final words suggest the opposite in Jon 21:25. "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." I hope that you find truth in all of God's word as Jesus Christ desired.
Noah Solomon, "this book" is not referring to the Bible, look in Revelation 10 and read an angel confronted John and gave him a little book, "this book" is referring to the book John received from the angel in The Isle of Patmos. Also take notice of verse 19 saying, "this prophecy", the Bible is not all one prophecy, so which prophecy was John writing about? "this prophecy" is referring to The Return of Jesus Christ, the great and dreadful day. An angel told Nephi John would write about the return of Christ. 1 Nephi 14:27-28 27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel. 28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
Matthew’s book in the New Testament is mainly written to a Jewish audience. Many jews at the time didn’t believe they needed “another book”, after all, they had all the amazing writings and stories of the ancient prophets. What more did they need, right?! I’m grateful for Matthew and the other apostles and disciples who wrote down their accounts. The Old Testament is great, but so is the New Testament. The accounts of the ancient people and prophets who walked the American continent are also powerful stories that testify of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and His goodness. “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold.” John 10:16. When people say the Book of Mormon is false I think, “who are you to say an entire group of people and their experiences with God are false?” Those same people also remind me of the Jews, thousands of years ago, who believed Matthew didn’t have the authority to write another book of scripture. Read things (the Quran, the apocrypha, the Book of Mormon) and pray for discernment and for personal revelation. God will help those who search, pray and knock. “Ye shall know them by their fruits” Matthew 7:16 “Seek learning, even by study AND also by faith.” D&C 88:118
It doesn't matter how or where it was translated from. What I believe is that it's from God. No uneducated man can write such books and invent everything from his head. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not the church of God, which one is? There has to be a creator of all the things in the universe and there has to be an explanation to things and this is the only church that does provide.
Here’s the thing. This story does seem strange as well as quite a few others from church history but when I read the Pearl of Great Price there’s no doubt in my mind that it’s true. The spirit entirely overcomes me especially when it teaches the doctrine of our premortal life and about exaltation. We might not understand all the details of history but if we gain a witness from God that something is true then it’s true.
Please just keep in mind the warning in the Bible which tells us that our hearts hearts are deceitful above all thing... this is to say that a way to know if something is of God is test it against his New Testament and the words of Jesus. If anything contradicts what Jesus said it is not true. Remember evil deeds happen everyday because of the emotions of ones heart. Having a burning bosom is not how Christ teaches us to know truth. Please find a kjv bible that has no Joseph Smith Translation and read the New Testament.
@@TheBirdierouge Like in Proverbs 3:5, which tells us, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Right? After Christ's disciples spoke with the resurrected Lord, they recognized him by the feeling in their hearts; they said the following: "Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24:32) Jesus Christ Himself said, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26) Paul explains the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22, and it very much touches our heart. Just so you know, the Church of Jesus Christ does indeed refer to the King James Version of the Bible, and you can see that for yourself here: ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures/. May I ask you about your beliefs? I know why I study the Bible, but why do you? Why do you trust the Bible to truly contain God's word?
I really like how the Church has been putting out these little videos explaining simply all these different topics that many people have trouble understanding. Thank you!
@@johnyjohny5559 There is no contradicting narrative, there's contradicting assumptions by others. I've seen many exmembers claiming the Church deceived them with videos of Joseph translating the plates. For the record, some times the plates were visible in the same room, the Church's history even states Joseph allowed his scribes to try translating. As well as Joseph translating with the plates hidden. Joseph Smith said very little himself of how he translated the plates, Joseph always said "translated through the power of God." People just assume to translate something it must be visible. Simply, translate has a broader meaning than people think.
@@johnyjohny5559 The hostile anti-Mormon christian driven egyptological interpretation, OR translate back to a biblical text (the original). These are your only two choices here, which is it?
There is something strange about how the Book of Abraham came about and it has challenged my faith. As a result my faith has grown and I appreciate the power of a testimony more then ever. I do believe that the book of Abraham is true and its teachings are important. I don't know how it is true but I have faith in the spirit of prophecy because I have experienced it first hand. I also know our Heavenly parents are real because of personal revelation and I trust President Nelson as the prophet of these latter days. Thanks Jesus for all you have done for us. I can't wait for your return. Please come back soon.
Based on these theories of why the book does not match the source documents in any way, why continue to use the word "translation"? If I see a mountain and it inspires me to compose a song, I am not translating the rocks.
Hi J. P. I think you bring up a valid point. I'm no historian nor expert on this subject. I wonder if some of it has to do simply with the familiarity and simplicity of the term with members, and that it is only relatively recently that (latter 20th century) that the idea of it being a typical translation may be different. It would be interesting to know where the term "translation" first started, and if that idea is being continued due to familiarity (but with an asterisk). Perhaps there is a better word or phrase that could more accurately describe the unknown nature of the origins of the Book of Abraham. Revealed? Inspired? I realize some may use the word "faked", and I respect differing opinions on this topic. It is probably not a subject that will ever be fully resolved or understood through archaeology/theories. Interestingly, in the Doctrine and Covenants it reads that Joseph Smith "has translated the book [of Mormon], even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true." Royal Skousen on his work of textual variants of the Book of Mormon gives his conclusion that the words were "given" (through revelation) to Joseph Smith, which seems to be a different process than translating. Assuming the statement from Doctrine and Covenants was in fact revealed from the Lord (again there will be differing opinion which I respect) even the Lord's definition of translating seems to be broader than our definition. The restoration of the gospel through Joseph Smith is like a giant 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle to me. It was messy. I have to try out pieces here and there, and some fit, and some don't yet. Some pieces can be really challenging, even frustrating. This is all pretty long winded, but to say that, perhaps, yes, there may be a better word than translation. I'd like to see some other words included in the discussion as possibilities also. In the end, I'm very grateful for the gift of prayer and the still small voice of the Lord's spirit that has provided times of what the scripture have called "sure knowledge" (or assurance knowledge as I call it). I've accepted that I will never have a "perfect knowledge" in this life, but feel that overall, the Lord is behind this work.
Hi J.P., thanks for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We encourage you and others to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham, which addresses some of your concerns: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay explains, the word translation typically assumes an expert knowledge of multiple languages. Joseph Smith claimed no expertise in any language. The Lord did not require Joseph Smith to have knowledge of Egyptian, but by the gift and power of God, Joseph received knowledge about the life and teachings of Abraham. We hope that helps!
I have enjoyed lots of music that “translates rocks”. By that I mean that I can feel and understand what the composer is communicating to the listener. I do not need to see the mountain to know it was there. The same is true for the Book of Abraham. I don’t need to see the source material-which is not fully available!-to feel and understand it’s truthfulness. As a prophet of God Joseph Smith was able to translate what God wanted him to. Whether the characters on the papyri were the mountain or the rocks makes no difference to me. I know the final result is God’s word.
@@churchofjesuschrist That does not help. Joseph Smith perhaps did not claim expertise in any language, but he did claim that the knowledge he received about the life and teachings of Abraham through the gift and power of God were a direct translation of the hieroglyphs into English, not that he looked at the papyri and was inspired to receive entirely unrelated content.
"Mormon" lived in the ancient Americas hundreds of years after Abraham lived, and Abraham lived on the opposite side of the world so yes clearly they aren't related whatsoever.
@@SOCscoreCER Mormonism isn't referring to the person Mormon, it's referring to the religion itself. The church is simply defending a clearly ridiculous claim that he found words from a document that when properly translated, contain very different content.
@@bobmouse9372 we are more properly known as latter day saints. Also "mormonism" really isn't a thing either, since Christ is the center of our faith we would prefer the term "Christian" or "LDS Christianity"
Thank you for this brief summary of the Book of Abraham. I think it is important to have another prophet besides Moses that received a revelation of the creation of the world. We have two witnesses and cannot forever deny what it truly means.
Hi jh, thanks for your comment. We encourage you to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay emphasizes, the veracity and value of the book of Abraham isn’t settled by scholarly debate, but in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit. We hope that helps!
jh, we will all come across trials of faith. In my experiences the people in charge of my finances told their leaders lies to reduce what I'm entitled to. My dad is not a member and told me to lie on the application form, instead I kept my covenants and prayed and as an outcome, my finances doubled which I never expected. Faith in Christ without wavering and obedience to His commandments will make the Holy Ghost confirm the truth to you if you go somewhere silent enough to hear Him.
@@churchofjesuschrist Thank you sincerely for your kind and personal comment. I will read the article you recommended :) (FYI, your comment has not only helped my study on this topic, but it has also kind of spiritually saved me at this very moment. So again, I greatly appreciate your interest.)
Are we all familiar with the concept of "Ockhams Razor"? - very simply stated it means that the simplest explanation for a thing us almost always the most accurate. One example could be attributing your annoying headache to possibly having a brain tumor or Bubonic Plague (both of which can cause headaches) where the most reasonable explanation is that you are simply a little dehydrated. Juxtaposing Ockams Razor to the fact that there is absolutely no correlation between Joseph Smith's "translation" of this papyrus fragment to the "Book of Abraham", the most obvious explanation is that Smith simply made it up and is - therefore - a liar and a fraud (despite what the spin-doctors in Salt Lake City would prefer you to believe).
You've got a faulty premise, which will lead to a faulty conclusion. It's clear to everyone that the papyrus fragments that remain don't contain the text of the Book of Abraham. But there is a lot we don't know, such as, for example, what other papyrus Joseph Smith had possessed at the time of translation. Jumping to conclusions based on missing data is not a success of logic and science.
@@00Fisher00 Here is what is clear. The surviving papyrus clearly contains the source for facsimile #1 with the lion couch scene vignette. And the text in the BoA chapter 1 verse 12 clearly indicates that the vignette and text are on the same record, when it says "and that you may have a knowledge of this altar, I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of *this* record." In addition, on the Joseph Smith papers website, you can see that Joseph Smith's scribes clearly used the same papyri. In these documents (that were produced in quadruplicate by Joseph's scribes), you can see the same characters from the surviving papyri on the left column and the English text in the right column that matches the text of the Book of Abraham. And obviously these translations are blatantly incorrect. There is no "jumping to conclusions" here. The evidence is extremely damning.
@@danhoen4129 Hi. I don't get perfect notifications from RUclips, so I didn't see this until I happened to check. I will state up front that I am not a deep scholar of the Book of Abraham. I've known a number of people who were, but I have a lot of interests and am not the best expert. So don't be surprised if I don't have much of an explanation for you on any specific point. I hope that's not too disappointing. If you have a link to that particular section on the Joseph Smith Papers web site, then I could look into it more, and maybe I would find some insight that would be helpful. That being said, and I'll repeat this from before, there are simply things that we don't know. That's very normal for historical and archaeological work. And what we do know changes as we learn more. What may seem "damning" at first can become quite the opposite. For example, the names Joseph Smith listed with gods associated with Facsimile 1 appeared to be incorrect based on earlier Egyptian studies but as time as passed those gods have been discovered to in fact be associated in other records.
@@gordianknot9595 I have to disappoint in this case, because I do not have those references on hand. It's something I've seen before, but I didn't keep track of. I'd like to think they could be found in not much time with an online search.
can you also explain why the church promotes joseph smith sitting at a table with the gold plates translating them. ive seen the image. yet never when the missionaries"teaching" did they say joseph looked into a hat with a stone in it and put the hat against his face / head. blocking out any light and view of any "gold plates" basically he was not even looking at the " gold plates " and thereby he translated said plates by looking into a hat at a stone. please explain here why was that never mentioned in the missionary discussions? and really why that fact is hidden from investigators of the church. why does the church not tell people this fact about the hat?
As a former missionary waiting for reassignment currently during this pandemic, it is confusing to talk about in-depth things to new people interested in the Church. If questions about more details arise, we are more than happy to address them. The purpose of those discussions is truly based around Jesus Christ and becoming converted to Him. In the Saints Vol. 1 book published by the Church this fact isn't hidden along with many other details I never knew about. The book is free to read on: history.churchofjesuschrist.org/saints?lang=eng&cid=rdb_v_saints_eng Hope I helped a bit! Questions are always good to have!
Hi Harry. We encourage you or others with questions about the Book of Mormon translation process to review the gospel topic essay linked below: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng In addition, in a 2018 Face to Face event, Elder Quentin Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and several Church historians responded to a similar concerns as to why the Church has not been more open about certain events or topics from Church history. See their response at 14:18 here: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html We hope that helps you and others with questions.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 You keep approaching this from a position of disbelief, which will never lead you to understanding. Someday you'll understand, and I just hope it isn't too late to do you any good during this life.
In 2015 I had two Angels visit me. They came in human form. They were not bathed in brilliant light they did not float and did not have wings. They touched me physically and specifically gave me instructions to follow. Which I admit I did without question. The instruction was not something I have ever heard or done before. The amazing thing was the instruction was so simple and not complicated. The instruction was in its purest form and from that alone I knew these beings were different from normal people. I was then shown many things pertaining to life, to my life and my status in this life. and some things pertaining to me in the next life. I was shown and taught things pertaining to the eternities and the universe. I gained an understanding of Time, Creation and Death and the real process of death and the transition we go through when passing from this life to the next, that the majority of people do not comprehend or even really know about and understand. I know my experience and there are not 2, 3, 4 different versions. Unlike the many different versions of the first vision. I only have one version of my experience with the Angels, why is that? Also nowhere in my experience or interaction with the two angels did they mention the mormon church. I know there is a higher power that is concerned for ALL mankind not just the Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses or the Jews or the Muslims. Or the Chinese or the Russians or the people in the "isles of the sea" All life is important to the higher power and the message and answer is for everyone. The higher power would not be just or fair if it just singled out one group for a better afterlife. Love is what everything is all about
''why does the church not tell people this fact about the hat?'' The egyptologists were debunked in 2014 due to the assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist, why aren't the dishonest anti-Mormons telling people about this fact? Now back to your question about the hat. I was inquired of by one who asked, why is it you see Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon from the golden plates but you can see on the church website that he mainly used the stone. I informed him of what I read, what I read is that it's more aesthetically pleasing to see Joseph Smith translating from the golden plates than a rock in a hat. Also it went on to say you might see an artists depiction of a buffed Nephite Warrior on a horse, though it says nowhere in the Book of Mormon that horses were even ridden (the chariots in the Book of Mormon appear to be horseless), the buffed Nephite Warrior is just an artists rendition. Just like the picture of translating from the golden plates. It's more aesthetically pleasing.
Where are the prophets and apostles teaching truth on these difficult and confusing matters? Book of Abraham, Polygamy, polyandry, racism are causing people to leave the church. Yet the apostles are silent? Why must we turn to RUclips videos and Gospel Topics Essays?
Anyone can turn to God and receive a witness from the Holy Ghost about the truth of scripture and the Church. Membership in the Church has always been a matter of faith and revelation.
They probably don't want to expose the general membership to those topics all at once. If they just put up resources online mostly just people who are already interested in those topics will see it.
Matthew Fullmer, The Church leaders have greater priorities than dealing with any issues members are having. I've never been a Bishop but I already know that's a lot of work and commitment, a Bishop watches over a Ward, so how much work do you think it is to watch over the Church globally by as few as 15 people? The early Saints didn't find any of this problematic like this generation, 30 years ago gay marriage was against the law, wouldn't today's people call that discrimination? Well it wasn't viewed as discrimination 30 years ago to restrict gay marriage. I'm a convert and after enough research this wasn't bothering at all, if this is so bad don't you find it odd the Church is putting it in the public's plain sight?
@Matthew Fullmer, thanks for sharing your concern. The Church has made a tremendous effort to make its history more accessible and understandable with the publication of the Gospel Topics Essays, the Joseph Smith Papers project, the narrative history series, "Saints," and accompanying Church History topics and videos, the "New You Know" series, and more. All of these efforts are led and directed by the senior leaders of the Church. In a 2018 Face to Face event, Elder Quentin Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and several Church historians responded to a similar question about why the Church has not been more open about controversial Church history topics. See their response at 14:18 here: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html. We hope that helps!
An important element is omitted from this video. The Abraham-Egyptian papers now available for viewing on the Joseph Smith Papers Project clearly show Joseph and his scribes working out the translation. Egyptian characters are shown in the left margin, with corresponding "translations" in the body of each page. These documents reveal the "translation" process and debunk the missing scroll theory. We're left with the catalyst theory, which is also shaky ground since Joseph tells us he was "translating" Egyptian to English. Too bad, I once enjoyed thinking of myself as an intelligence that was organized before the world was. I now realize I'm just another credulous guy who fell for a fanciful story.
You've drawn incorrect conclusions. Joseph Smith and others with him took an interest in ancient documents they procured and made efforts to understand Egyptian hieroglyphics, with about the same level of success as others of the time who did not have access to the newer knowledge provided by the Rosetta Stone. The papyri they had was later sold and damaged, and we don't know how much of it was lost; only a few fragments remain, which don't appear to correspond to the Book of Abraham. It stands to reason that among the papyri he once had, there was a portion that could have been translated directly using modern knowledge of hieroglyphics that Joseph Smith didn't have. We know that a key part of all of Joseph Smith's translation work was revelation, and it was certainly the case when he was translating the Book of Abraham. If you only ever *thought* these things, without going to ask God directly about them, you didn't go far enough, but you still can.
@@00Fisher00 Thanks for your response Jay. My conclusions were arrived at after reading dozens of articles and considering many opinions. Moroni's formula was employed. Ultimately Robert Ritner is more persuasive and credible than John Gee and the spirit never told me otherwise. I can't tell whether Joseph Smith was a fraud, or perhaps delusional or mentally ill. I don't believe he was inspired. I respect your sincerely held beliefs and wish you all the best.
@@ericmattingley4652 Joseph Smith was an interesting person with flaws, but for my part, I have no reason to think that he was deceitful or deluded. Apart from the guidance I've received personally from God throughout my life, there's simply the existence of the Church itself, which was restored by Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ spoke of prophets, warning against false prophets, but saying we would know them by their fruits. The idea that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could have its origins in deceit is more than a little unlikely. The Church leads millions of people to voluntarily seek personal betterment through study and service to others. The Church unites people in common efforts in a way that is unparalleled (and having observed other organizations--most especially the U.S. Army and other government agencies--that ought to be united to do good things, I can say that there's a distinct and sizable difference in the degree of organizational unity). The Church manages money incredibly well while relying fundamentally on voluntary contributions, despite inherent human tendencies toward greed and selfishness that are common in individuals and organizations. The Church is able to do that while also giving greatly to people in need; this happens on a local, personal level, a community level, and in efforts that span the globe, and the Church does this despite having a relatively very small number of active members who are able to make significant financial contributions. The Church makes huge amounts of scripture and other educational material available to the world at no cost; the Church's web sites are amazing collections of resources. The Church has facilities to produce food and other items of basic need that are downright impressive. The Church builds temples across the world that exist for the sole benefit of helping people draw closer to God, and the Church maintains those temples with almost incredibly high standards. (If you've never seen a temple's mechanical room, I hope that someday you get to; they're shockingly clean.) The Church allows for freedom of thought and belief, which means that there are plenty of Church members who at some point make decisions to distance themselves, but despite that, the Church continues to grow simply out of millions of people independently receiving spiritual confirmations from God. The leaders of the Church receive and provide guidance for the world that allows us to prepare for and even thrive during difficulties including things like a broad collapse of important family values and a global pandemic. I don't mention these things to try to force a conclusion on you, but for me, I see God's hand in the work of the Church. And of course there are other organizations in the world doing good, but I've never seen anything that comes close to accomplishing what God does through the restored Church of Jesus Christ. It doesn't make sense to me that such a magnificent work could have a corrupted root; those who have suggested such a thing and separated themselves from the Church have not produced anything remotely comparable. I have learned that Joseph Smith was not a perfect man; like everyone, he was in some ways a product of the culture he grew up in, and he had his own personality with his own character flaws. He never claimed perfection himself. He ended up having less time in life to work on personal growth than I've had in mine, and I still have ample room for personal improvement. And yet every man or woman who has been called to do God's work has been imperfect. I don't feel the need to try to judge Joseph Smith personally, especially since I think it's waaaay beyond my ability, but I do find myself able to judge whether or not the work he did was of God. I'll suggest that in matters of history, in most respects we have limited data to work with, and I think the greatest mistake is if we make conclusions based on missing evidence rather than simply accepting what we don't know and relying on what we do. Please remember that no single person on the Earth is expected to have the scholarly ability or resources to derive all truth, especially before charting a path in life, but we don't need to. I hope that you are able to feel God's love for you as you seek to develop your relationship with Him, and that someday soon you are able to find confidence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I say so because I know what great happiness and peace it brings me in my life, and I hope for the same for everyone else. If you don't believe for now, I hope that God gives you what you need so that you can sometime soon. Thank you for the well wishes and know that they are reciprocated.
A lot of people have tried discouraging me by using The Book of Abraham, thanks to my testimony of what I already knew I could tell these people criticising the Church were not telling me everything. Here's a quote from Elder. Jeffrey R. Holland I've always liked; "Hold fast to what you already know and stand strong until additional knowledge comes.... In this Church, what we know will always trump what we do not know." It didn't take long to get the message people opposing the church throwing rocks at it never tell people everything. I testify Jesus is the Christ and chiefcorner stone of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that He has given His people prophets and apostles to guide us. I leave this with you in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
I'm so grateful to have the Book mormon in my life and this video teach me more understand about the Book Mormon and Jesus Christ latter day saint and Thanks you for uploading this beautiful video 🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤
Yuyun Ningsih, I love The Book of Mormon as well, it's so useful of how it solves so many debates between different Christian Churches. Like John 10:16 in the Bible with Christ saying he has sheep not of that fold. Then in 3 Nephi 15 he says the other sheep are the other tribes of Israel that were lead out of Jerusalem.
Indeed this video helps one understand more. The egyptologists and the anti-Mormon crowd were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist. Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
@@Doc-Pleroma-naut No, he's just pointing out that they were taking the wrong approach to the issue in the first place. That's all. I must say that using unkind words makes you appear rather petty and rude. Even if you disbelieve, there's no reason for insults.
Not literally. He used it as a means to recieve revelation. His "translation" is not the same "translation" that most people think of when they hear that word.
Hi Jarron, thanks for sharing your question. We encourage you and others to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay explains, the word translation typically assumes an expert knowledge of multiple languages. Joseph Smith claimed no expertise in any language. The Lord did not require Joseph Smith to have knowledge of Egyptian, but by the gift and power of God, Joseph received knowledge about the life and teachings of Abraham. We hope that helps!
One great thing about these videos is how many people who aren't members of the church seeing them. If you have questions or want to learn more got to the church website or contact the missionaries.
Thanks for your comment, Nathaniel. For those interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ, contact the missionaries here: www.comeuntochrist.org/requests/missionary-visit
If you read the work of Egyptologists like Dr Ritner you will see problems with the Book o Abraham. There is no missing scroll. Dr Gee has argued for the longer scroll.However his arguments have been responded to by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith.
@@robertaugust2610 I recommend consulting Heavenly Father while studying. He gives us answers that strengthen our conviction of the Church of Jesus Christ, and when those answers come slowly He gives us patience and reassurance.
This is one of those cases where there are things we simply don't know with available information. That happens sometimes. What is most important is to continue seeking revelation from God and relying on the witness we have received and continue to receive from Him, while recognizing the great things He does for us through the Church of Jesus Christ. I hope the best for you as you do those things.
Mat 7:6 ...trample them. I think of how much our Heavenly Father's love is to reach out with such guidance, answers, wisdom through these servants of old. Then I think what we've done to those that were inspired to create this country to ensure God's gift of agency prevails here and elsewhere. ...with out doubt the The Book of Mormon is a liahona in my life to see how much Good reminds me of His love. And to respect all those that fight for the building up of these freedoms (plan of happiness).
Hi Harry, thanks for your question. We encourage you or others with questions to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
I'm glad the church has finally released the information that the papyri were funerary texts but how this explains Book of Abraham is still hard to grasp. If the Book of Abraham was true its origin was from direct revelation from God to JS. I really doubt that it had anything to do with the papyri at all(unless the burnt pieces were of a different scroll) although they could stoke fanciful imaginations in a young mind. That being said their have likely been other works of literature beneficial to humankind based on imagination and symbology of myth. Would love to have someone prove otherwise.
The egyptologists were debunked due to the assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist. Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
These animations are great, however I'm disappointed in the church's lack of honesty and transparency. Even though my testimony isn't based on what's factually right/wrong, I do want to trust the church. Misleading info isn't a good look at all. Mistakes were made in the past. It happens bc we're human. Be honest that is all.
I love how the LDS church is putting their stuff forward and addressing issues with the accounts such as the fragments not matching. Up until this point I always felt there were to many secrets. This is a good direction for the church.
I feel that it was less secrecy and more so lack of awareness by the members pertaining to it's origins. The Book of Abraham has a certain stigma surrounding it because of the fascimiles and other contents that are unfamiliar to traditional Christians, so many members unfortunately don't talk about or look into the Book of Abraham's origins. Nothing was ever hidden, just not enough members looked for it.
Thanks for your comment, Bo. We're glad you appreciate the videos. If you're interested, Elder Cook addressed concerns about the Church's openness with challenging topics in a 2018 Face to Face event. See his response at 14:18 in the link below: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html Take care!
Bo Lamb, This information never was hidden, just in the past before the internet it wasn't easy or cheap getting hold of information. As we see now, people do despitefully use technology to sow misinformation that can take us on detours, be careful with choosing sources.
@@bolamb3500 If it was in the wrong lesson, off topic, I'm not surprised. The teachers don't know everything either, they can't answer questions if they don't know the answer. That's what I see with a majority of members that they end up making excuses. I've never been denied the right to ask questions, I always waited until we did a lesson on what my questions regard. Like what people claim to be Joseph committing bank fraud, I was going through Church history to see for myself and ask other members in Church history lessons to see it wasn't fraud at all. What I do know always trumps what I don't know yet, I wait for additional knowledge to come then the blanks get filled in.
Different times back then. Many animals were killed to extinction only for their fur, and arts destroyed only because people didn't agree with their cultural values (like the Conquistadors). In a few decades, perhaps a century from now, people will look at our past and wonder why we polluted the environment so much. We had different concept of values back then.
I think the financial struggles of the Church would have justified selling it, but I think more importantly it's good that we don't have the whole record now. People would criticize it either way, and it's best for there to not be easy proof instead of faith.
He was betrayed by his apostles and then killed... Or should I say massacred... Then they had no true leadership or a prophet to lead then and they struggled for inspiration and people did stuff .. like sell the dang scrolls that would later prove the church is true 🤯
I absolutely love the teachings in the Book of Abraham. Jesus words flow in that scripture, it’s the Lords thesis on the spiritual nature of premortality and our continued testing and purpose in mortality. For me, God almighty is the master Creator, who provides meaning in nature for our benefit, all done out of love .
Since its printing, the Book of Abraham has been a source of controversy. Numerous non-LDS Egyptologists, beginning in the mid-19th century, have heavily criticized Joseph Smith's translation and explanations of the facsimiles, unanimously concluding that his interpretations are inaccurate.
For those of you who say this video glosses over many of the issues regarding the Book of Abraham, my answer is, YES, it does. To review every aspect of what is contained in the Book of Abraham would require a much, much longer video. This video simply highlights what the Book of Abraham is as well as giving a brief explanation about some of the controversies surrounding it. I am not an expert on the Book of Abraham translation, nor am I an expert on all the different discussions, both pro and against the Book of Abraham. But what I do know is, having read the BofA many times I find nothing in it which I consider evil or corrupt. Just as with the Book of Mormon, there is a lot about the Book of Abraham we can not detail by using only scientific means. This does not, however, mean that Latter-day Saints who believe in the BofA and BofM are anti-science or that we are somehow using, as some say, mental gymnastics, to believe in these books. It simply means our confirmation of the truths of these books comes in large part from the Holy Spirit as recorded in Moroni 10:3-5 in the Book of Mormon. I do not fault critics of the Church who are honest in their critiques of the BofA or BofM. I do not fault Egyptologists who have likewise found Joseph Smith’s translation of the BofA to be problematic. The reason being is that often, these people are use to finding evidence by what they can see, touch and read. It is like solving a puzzle for them and in most cases, there is nothing at all wrong with that. That is how physical science should be conducted. But when you don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle, using only scientific tools or scientific means to solve a problem can not fully answer all the questions. That is when the Holy Ghost can answer the questions which science can not. Jesus taught this to his disciples in John 14:26. Just because I don’t have an exact blueprint of how the earth was created, from the mountains to the oceans doesn’t mean I should abandon my belief in God. Just because I don’t know exactly how stars and planets came into being doesn’t mean I should throw away my belief in a supreme creator and instead assume everything simply came about by the laws of chance. Perhaps there are those who believe in their heart of hearts that spirituality doesn’t exist. As for me, I just believe differently, especially in a time like today, with social media, 24/7 news and an Internet flooded with opinions coming from every direction. There are so many voices saying, “I’m right and they’re wrong,” or “I have the truth and no one else does,” or “Don’t believe those people over there, believe me.” It is becoming more and more important to receive council and guidance from the one and only source of all truth, and that is the Holy Ghost; that still small voice which whispers truth to both our minds and our hearts.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and faith, @Clark Larsen. For those interested in learning more on this topic, see the Church's in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
@@fescot349 You might be surprised at Biblical inconsistencies, but they're not a concern, because in time, we see reasons for why inconsistencies are present or appear to be. Would God offer a plan of salvation and a restoration with many questions? Absolutely! Questions are a vital part of what God desires for us. One of the greatest and most common messages in scripture is, "Ask, and ye shall receive." That sincere asking is crucial to us receiving revelation from God, though of course we must "ask in faith" as James directed. When we do, God rewards our faith with knowledge. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ rely on faith and revelation, as God desires of us--not only when joining the Church, but throughout our lives.
What evidence does the Book of Abraham show to support its own antiquity? The stories and worldviews we find in the translated text of our Book of Abraham coincide nicely with what we find from ancient Abrahamic lore The stories and worldviews we find in the translated text of our Book of Abraham coincide nicely with what we find from ancient Abrahamic lore. Joseph Smith demonstrated extensive knowledge of these areas, which he then integrated into a theologically rich whole. He could only have received this information through revelation, since there were no resources available to him on this subject at the time. Evidence from non-Biblical sources The book of Abraham is consistent with various details found in nonbiblical stories about Abraham that circulated in the ancient world around the time the papyri were likely created. In the book of Abraham, God teaches Abraham about the sun, the moon, and the stars. “I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt,” the Lord says, “that ye may declare all these words.” Ancient texts repeatedly refer to Abraham instructing the Egyptians in knowledge of the heavens. For example, Eupolemus, who lived under Egyptian rule in the second century B.C.E., wrote that Abraham taught astronomy and other sciences to the Egyptian priests. A third-century papyrus from an Egyptian temple library connects Abraham with an illustration similar to facsimile 1 in the book of Abraham.44 A later Egyptian text, discovered in the 20th century, tells how the Pharaoh tried to sacrifice Abraham, only to be foiled when Abraham was delivered by an angel. Later, according to this text, Abraham taught members of the Pharaoh’s court through astronomy.45 All these details are found in the book of Abraham. Other details in the book of Abraham are found in ancient traditions located across the Near East. These include Terah, Abraham’s father, being an idolator; a famine striking Abraham’s homeland; Abraham’s familiarity with Egyptian idols; and Abraham’s being 62 years old when he left Haran, not 75 as the biblical account states. Some of these extrabiblical elements were available in apocryphal books or biblical commentaries in Joseph Smith’s lifetime, but others were confined to nonbiblical traditions inaccessible or unknown to 19th-century Americans.[1] Ancient Human Sacrifice The existence of human sacrifice in ancient Egypt has been variously debated and denied. While Egyptologists generally admit that the practice existed in the formative periods of Egyptian society, opinions among Egyptologists for later time periods range from claiming that "there is no certain evidence for the practice of human sacrifice . . . from the Old Kingdom onwards" to asserting that there is "indisputable evidence for the practice of human sacrifice in classical ancient Egypt." However difficult it may be for modern societies to accept that a practice we detest, such as human sacrifice, occurred in past civilizations we admire, further research and discoveries necessitate a reassessment of the possibility of this practice within Egyptian culture. While there is not a universally accepted definition of human sacrifice, for the purposes of this paper we will define human sacrifice as the slaying of a person in a ritual context.[2] Parallels with Abrahamic and Egyptian traditions There is evidence from antiquity-both in the Abrahamic tradition and in the Jewish recontextualization of Egyptian vignettes and dramas-which lend support to the claim that Joseph translated (albeit by unconventional means) the Book of Abraham from an authentic ancient source. While Book of Abraham "translations" and "restorations" of the damaged vignettes do not seem to square with the translations of non-LDS Egyptologists, there are several instances when Joseph did get some of the details correct. This is no small thing considering that neither Joseph, nor any one to whom he had access, could translate Egyptian. THE SONS OF HORUS Facsimile 2 (shown between Chapters 3 and 4 of the Book of Abraham in the LDS Pearl of Great Price), is known as a hypocephalus ("under the head") and was a small disk-shaped object that was placed under the head of the deceased. The Egyptians "believed it would magically cause the head and body to be enveloped in flames or radiance, thus making the deceased divine."[3] In this drawing (or vignette), stand four mummy-like figures known-to Egyptologists-as the Sons of Horus. Their images were also on the canopic jars (the jars that stored the internal organs of the deceased) that we see under the lion couch in Joseph Smith's Facsimile 1. Joseph revealed that these four figures represented "this earth in its four quarters." According to modern Egyptologists, Joseph Smith is correct. The Sons of Horus "were the gods of the four quarters of the earth and later came to be regarded as presiding over the four cardinal points."[4] ABRAHAMIC TRADITIONS Years ago, Dr. Nibley pointed out that the critics neglect the ancient Near Eastern Abrahamic traditions that support the story found in the Book of Abraham.[5] Ancient Abrahamic lore and Jewish traditions preserved in ancient texts, show some surprising parallels to what we find in the text of the Book of Abraham. Some of these parallels imply that Joseph (who likely could not have had access to many of these traditions) actually restored authentic ancient Abrahamic traditions. Some of these parallels include early Jewish traditions about Abraham's life-details not found in the Bible.[6] Two such ancient documents that show some surprising parallels to our Book of Abraham are the Apocalypse of Abraham[7][8] and the Testament of Abraham[9] (the Apocalypse of Abraham dates to about the same time as the Book of Abraham papyri). Astronomy Other interesting parallels include ancient names and astronomy. Ancient Egyptian names, for example, that would have been unknown to Joseph Smith, are accurately represented in the Book of Abraham both phonetically as well as in meaning.[10] With regard to astronomy, we find that in Joseph Smith's day "heliocentricity" (as proposed by Copernicus and Newton) was the accepted astronomical view. Nineteenth-century people (including the most brilliant minds of the day) believed that everything revolved around the Sun-therefore the term "heliocentric" (Greek helios=sun + centered). (In the twentieth-first century we generally accept an Einsteinian view of the cosmos.) The Book of Abraham, however, clearly delineates a geocentric view of the universe-or a belief that the Earth (Greek geo) stood at the center of the universe, and all things moved around our planet. According to ancient geocentric cosmologies and what we read in the Book of Abraham, the heavens (which is defined as the expanse above the earth-no celestial object is mentioned to exist below the earth) was composed of multiple layers or tiers-each tier higher than the previous. Therefore the Sun is in a higher tier than the moon, and the stars are in higher tiers still (compare Abraham 3:5, 9, 17).[8]:5 According to geocentric astronomy, celestial objects have longer time spans (or lengths of "reckoning") based upon their relative distance from the earth. "Thus, the length of reckoning of a planet is based on its revolution [time to orbit around the center, in this case the earth](and not rotation [time to spin on its axis, as the earth does every 24 hours])."[8]:8 The higher the celestial object, the greater its length of reckoning (compare Abraham 3:5). Likewise, in Abraham 3:8-9, we read that "there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still; And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob." Ancient geocentric astronomers believed that the stars were "the outer-most celestial sphere, furthest from the earth and nearest to God."[8]:9 We find in the Book of Abraham that the star Kolob was the star nearest "the throne of God" (Abraham 3:9). In the ancient, yet recently discovered, Apocalypse of Abraham (which dates from about the same time period as the JSP), we find that God's throne is said to reside in the eighth firmament (the firmaments, being another term for the varying tiers in the heavens above the Earth).[8]:9 The Book of Abraham also reveals that those celestial objects that are highest above the earth, "govern" the objects below them (see Abraham 3:3, 9 and Facsimile 2, fig. 5). This sounds similar to the beliefs of those who accepted an ancient geocentric cosmology: Throughout the ancient world the governing role of celestial bodies was conceived in similar terms. God sits on his throne in the highest heaven giving commands, which are passed down by angels through the various regions of heaven, with each region governing or commanding the regions beneath it.[8]:10 We find this governing order described in the Apocalypse of Abraham and other ancient sources. All of this makes sense only from an ancient geocentric perspective (such as that believed in Abraham's day) and makes no sense from a heliocentric perspective (which is what Joseph would have known in his day). A different interesting parallel comes from Facsimile 1 (Abraham on the lion couch). According to Egyptologists, this is a typical Egyptian embalming scene and has nothing to do with Abraham or sacrifice. In fact, the critics assure us, Abraham is not a topic of discussion in Egyptian papyri, and there is no connection with Abraham and the embalming lion couch. Recent discoveries, however, suggests that the Biblical Abraham does appear in some Egyptian papyri that date to the same period as the JSP. In one instance (thus far discovered) Abraham's name appears to have a connection to an Egyptian lion couch scene.[11]
These are awesome and a great resource for those who have not known where to find the information that has always been available but not easily accessible. Good stuff and I look forward to watching more and sharing with my family.
Great video! I know lots of people like to poke at the Book of Abraham because it seems hard to believe. As a former skeptic and often struggling believer myself, there are extremely competent and faithful modern scholars like Hugh Nibley and John Gee who believed the Book of Abraham to be the real deal. If it’s good enough do them, it’s good enough for me. If you want to learn more, in addition to the Church’s gospel topics essays, some other great resources are FAIR (formerly known as Fair Mormon) and Pearl of Great Price Central. In the end, it’s important to ask the right questions. It’s easy to get stuck in the “how” and forget all about the “why”.
jim cherkas The facsimiles they examined - correct. The Book of Abraham is just as much the word of God as any other scripture handed down to us from our ancient ancestors of over 4,000 years ago. I know this is true because of the witness I received. I invite you to ask God if it is true, after you read it.
My favorite part of the video was the “not equals” symbol and the giant question mark. The only real truth provided in this video. Trying to be honest, but not TOO honest.
I've heard it described as the inoculation strategy. Slowly give out little bits of inconvenient truths so that when someone hears the whole story they are already somewhat familiar with it and just accept it without questioning their faith because they feel like they were already told about it.
The fragments that remain DO correspond. Joseph even matched them up for us in his Egyptian alphabet and translation document. On the subject, I recommend any RUclips videos by Dan Vogel.
I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, and that the Book of Abraham is a true translation. That is what I know. I feel the Holy Spirit, and I’m filled with light when I read the Book of Abraham.
When you discovered the Book of Abraham didn't match the papyrus, how did you determine it was a work of divine inspiration vs a work of creative fiction? How can one tell the difference?
There's only one way to determine if any work is inspired by God, and that is to ask Him about it. I think that most often, people start by seeking a witness from God of the truth of the Book of Mormon. Have you ever asked latter-day saints why we believe what we do?
Jay Britton Fisher - I'm interested in your " why". Why do you think the things you believe are true? What method did you use to make that determination?
@@kenhilker2507 I was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and taught from an early age. I became accustomed to scripture and the Holy Ghost while young, but when I left home for college I got a bit lazy with my religious practices. Eventually, I decided to serve as a missionary for the Church as I had been taught I should. While in training, my instructors spoke of the importance of the Holy Ghost and helping others to recognize its influence as it testifies of truth. I was somewhat troubled, because I didn't feel like I could do that. On a special day, I found that I could indeed, as God touched my heart like He had before. Over the years I have relied on the Spirit of God and received a witness of truth many times through the Spirit. I have also been privileged to see much of what really happens in the Church of Jesus Christ in many parts of the U.S. and other parts of the world. How do I know that God has given true scripture? Because He testifies of it in a way that only He can. Scripture teaches of this, such as Jesus' words in John 14:26, where He said that "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you," and we gain some insight into the Holy Ghost as we read passages like Galatians 5:22-23, where we read that "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance". Granted, that description of what the Spirit of God produces in us is merely descriptive, and it is somewhat like the taste of salt in that it has to be experienced to be really understood. I also grant that there are other things which can produce joy and love or other positive feelings in us, but what I have felt from God when nothing else could have produced those feelings is undeniable. I've relied on revelation through the Holy Ghost as well, and been blessed by it. It's potentially an error of circular logic to accept a book simply because the book itself claims to be true, but true scripture is endorsed by God. I don't think it's enough to espouse beliefs merely because we were raised with them. It seems that many people have held onto beliefs out of tradition or a lack of willingness or desire to actually investigate truth, but again, that's not good enough for me. I also don't rely solely on study. I've know many people in very humble circumstances who lacked either great mental capacity or resources to conduct significant study or both, and it doesn't make sense to me that God would only reveal Himself to a privileged group. Rather, I have seen God touch the minds and hearts of people who had no hope of being great scholars but who still desired truth. I could elaborate on that early experience or others, but frankly, they're personal and somewhat sacred. If you show continued interest I can share more. Overall, I rely very much on the words of Moroni at the end of the Book of Mormon, when he promised the following: "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." God has witnessed to me of the truth of the Book of Mormon, and, in turn, the role of Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God witnesses of truth to me when living prophets speak. I've also seen a lot of God's work in the Church. There is no organization comparable to it on the face of the Earth. I could discuss that also, but this is already a very long comment. It's a daunting challenge to try to sum up a lifetime of personal experience that has led me to where I am today, but hopefully that gives you some insight and some desire to investigate the Church of Jesus Christ for yourself. You can do at least minimal investigation by visiting ComeUntoChrist.org or ChurchOfJesusChrist.org, and of course the most important act would be to study the very book that God provided for us in our day in order to accomplish His work--the Book of Mormon. As to the Book of Abraham. I have learned some things about the history of its translation that help me to avoid making unwarranted assumptions. I've also learned that there are simply things we don't know yet; perhaps Joseph Smith would have explained more about it if he'd lived longer. However, the unanswered questions I have are heavily outweighed by the answers I do have, so I can look forward with hope.
I thank God that the fragments of the papyrus still exist, otherwise I may never have started doubting the LDS church. Christ is GOD and the Bible is His word.
The existing fragments don't give us much insight about the Book of Abraham, and certainly shouldn't be a source of doubt in what God has revealed to us. Yes, Jesus Christ is God the Son, and yes, the writings of the Bible are inspired scripture. In addition, God has restored the Church of Jesus Christ in our time and is doing a great work through it for us.
I haven't figured it all out but The Book of Enoch definitely seems to contain many Mormon doctrines not found in Christianity. The Council of Gods / Adam God Doctrine for a start. Even the fact that Nephi calls himself "large in stature" seems to somehow be connected to the Giants called Nephilim in The Book of Enoch. I forget who but one of Joseph Smith's contemporaries said the Urim and Thummum were like giant spectacles too big for an average size human.
Ocams Razor...the most plausible explanation is usually the simplest one. The word Abraham is never mentioned in the Book of Abraham and it is a common funerary text. The discovery of the Rosetta Stone a few years before the “ translation or inspiration,” proves that nothing in the Book actually matches any of the words or pictures of the scrolls. The rediscovery of the scrolls in then 60’s that were assumed lost in an earlier fire is a most inconvenient truth for the LDS church. The simplistic answer is that the BoA is just false.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 I definitely don't trust your understanding. You don't know my personal experiences and aren't qualified to tell me anything about them.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 You keep emphasizing feelings and my understanding as if feelings are all I've experienced and as if my understanding is somehow insufficient while yours is. I repeat that you don't know what I've experienced in my relationship with God. I don't need advice from someone who shows no understanding. You never needed to say anything in the first place, especially when you're coming to a video about someone other religion's beliefs just to tell them you think they're wrong. You are free to go about your life and choose the beliefs you desire. You are accomplishing nothing here.
Thats assuming abraham existed and scripture is historical. If not where did it come from? Were me. Inspired to write it down? And why if thats the case? The truth of religion is in how it teaches truth. The noahs flood story is highly symbolic and meaningful story and yet probably didnt happen historically.
My biggest issue is that Jospeh smith took the papyrus and deliberately lied about the contents held within them. People try to defend the book of Abraham by saying God had an intended translation for which we should internalize his message. This however fails the churches standard of always being honest and shows for being the one true church they constantly fail to be transparent with the body of the church. If the book of Abraham were true and Joseph smith had the power to translate then he more than certainly should’ve been able to translate what was actually on the papyrus, and to say “well God had an intended message” is a cop out and is dishonest. Not to mention Joseph Smith was very quick to flaunt the Papyrus and the kinderhook plates to prove he was a translator and a prophet but couldn’t show anyone except for 13 witnesses, of which most were excommunicated or voluntarily left the church, the Golden Plates. Even Martin Harris admitted he had never actually physically seen the plates, rather he witnessed them with his “spiritual eyes.”
There are several problems with what you've said. There hasn't been any lying or dishonesty from Joseph Smith or current Church leaders. What we have is some acknowledgement of unknowns, and unknowns are a normal thing in most endeavors, but especially historic and archaeological efforts. The Kinderhook Plates were fake; they were enough to catch Joseph Smith's attention at first, but you will notice that there is no book of scripture studied by Latter-day Saints that came from them. Joseph Smith did show the gold plates to a number of people, including a few beyond those called as public witnesses. Many of them held the plates in their hands, and being granted additional spiritual insight doesn't preclude that. Yes, many of the witnesses faced trials of faith and left the Church--though some returned--but none of them ever denied their accounts of the gold plates. Their testimony remains powerful. Returning to the Book of Abraham, we simply don't have all that Joseph Smith possessed, and we don't know everything about the translation process or the relationship between the Book of Abraham and the remaining papyrus fragments. That's okay by me, though. I've lived with unknowns for a long time--not just in religion, but in every part of life. In some cases, I've learned things that helped me understand truth from God, and sometimes answers came years after I first found the questions. That's okay. I have ample reason to carry on in faith, and I would encourage you and everyone else to do the same.
He later explained that his spiritual eyes were a metaphore and he saw them with his literal eyes too. And he attempted a translation with the kinderhook plates and never published it since he wasnt confident in the paragraph he had attempted. On top of that, if he found hold plates with inscriptions he supposedly invented, wouldnt he be suspicious someone hid them to trip him up? Which was essentially what happened.
This video implies there is no link between the book of Abraham and the characters still visible on the fragments. The (rigorously detailed) notes of JS and associates suggest otherwise. There is a faithful way to see that, though some feel it requires making special affordances.
@ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints If you're willing to acknowledge at 1:51 that Joseph Smith believed he had the literal, original writings of Abraham in his possession, then you have to admit that he DID attempt to engage in a translation in the typical sense of the word, and he himself MEANT translation in the typical sense of the word whenever he spoke about translating the BoA. Now, if you're going to say that the BoA could still have come through revelation despite a fraudulent exercise in translation, then that's your god's fault for allowing Joseph Smith and his colleagues to remain deceived in what they were doing, which said belief carried on throughout the decades well into the late 20th century. And God is responsible for anyone who left the church over this. He has proven himself untrustworthy. He can blame no one for leaving the church because he allowed the BoA to come about through the appearance of fraud. So no one could tell the difference, nor should they expect to be able to.
Assuming fraud is faulty. It's clear that Joseph Smith and others with him attempted to translate Egyptian, much like others of their era who didn't have access to the knowledge provided by the Rosetta Stone, and that they had comparable success--which is to say that they didn't succeed. The "alphabet" they attempted to produce wasn't accurate. What is not clear is how Joseph Smith proceeded from there. Perhaps he would have explained more about it later in his life if he hadn't been killed. People are always free to turn away from the Church, and that is their decision and responsibility. God is responsible for granting us a mortal life that requires faith, as part of His Plan of Salvation, because He knows that faith is a crucial principle for our growth. We have to expect to often have questions that aren't answered immediately. When we come across something we don't understand, we have the option of exercising faith and being blessed for it, or rejecting faith. Faith isn't a blind acceptance, and it doesn't mean we don't come to knowledge, because God absolutely does reward faith with knowledge, but when some answers to questions take a long time to find, He gives us reassurance and helps us to be patient in the meanwhile. The most important thing we can do when we want to know if a written work is true scripture is ask God Himself in faith that He will answer. When we ask in faith and He answers, that's really all we need.
This is an excellent video! There were things shared that I didn't know. Often with topics like this, at least for myself, it helps to bring it back to the question, "Is Joseph Smith a prophet?" My personal witness is that he is a prophet! As a result of this, it doesn't necessarily matter how he got the revelation. He's a revelator and can receive that message and any message from heaven!
With all due respect, how do you answer the question "is Joseph Smith a prophet?" without considering evidence like the book of Abraham? Coming to a conclusion before you research is a great way to come to the wrong conclusion.
@@PostScript9223 Coming to an incorrect conclusion after doing faulty research is potentially a bigger problem. Many people receive a witness from God about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints before becoming familiar with the Pearl of Great Price, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I have seen the Abraham scrolls in the exhibition, which went round the world And was in Hyde Park Chapel, UK London, England about the year of Diana princess of Wales memorial in Hyde Park where I went there as well at the same time so we talking about 2010
Eh, don't forget the truth of the plan of salvation. Satan will do everything with our minds, actions and of others with/through/and wordily knowledge to simply just cause doubt or disprove the Lord. If we lose faith and stop progressing, he's won for the moment. In the end, the book of Abraham acknowledges the truth of Christ and God. It in no way is contrary and I see that as 'good enough' till God reveals more answers. Faith is good enough ;)
While the Book of Abraham is speculative, the Book of Mormon is clearly true, even when Christians who have read it are asked about it. How Joseph Smith, who is a "false prophet", pulled a bunny out of a hat that was a true bunny, is a mystery that is not yet solved by evangelicals. Some argue that demons helped him make a true demonic book, but then why does the book preach the true gospel (and repentance!)? It's interesting. If Joseph Smith is true because of the Book of Mormon, then the Book of Abraham must be considered as a true book too, as it came from the prophet who translated the true Book of Mormon. To make matters even more complicated, unlike the Quran, the Book of Mormon contains no mistakes/errors compared to Christian doctrines. If anyone can find even a single false verse or even some half truths in the Book of Mormon, please let me know, but you probably will not be able to. I know a guy that is 80 years old and talks to God in English that is not a Mormon who has read it twice and has found no errors in it. P.S. Obviously Joseph Smith wasn't a con-man, as we have millions of revelations in favor of him (South Park was wrong, whoops!). The revelations themselves don't make him true at all, but they do make him powerful; the book of Mormon on its own doesn't make him powerful at all, but it does make him true. Using logic, as well as my testimony of revelation/dreams/visions/etc in favor of Joseph, it's very unlikely he is a false prophet of God... he is most likely a True Prophet of God Hope this helps
I can't repeat this enough, people confuse inspiration with non-fiction, there is a huge difference. I can be inspired by so many things, doesn't nessesarily mean that they ever existed or were true.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 "Lies come later"...does that mean that because the New Testament came after the Old, you disbelieve it? Or should people reject everything after the books of Moses, because they came later? Prophets continue to reveal great things throughout history, and we shouldn't be surprised by that. As to why the Nephites associated dark skin with the curse on the Lamanites, it's because it's an obvious visible indication. I believe that Laman and Lemuel mingled with other peoples who were on the continent, and that those other people happened to have darker skin that they passed on to their children. Nephi's life had been threatened, and the Lamanites came to fight the Nephites in open warfare shortly afterward. With modern sensibilities it's easy to say, "Well, you shouldn't judge people by their skin color", and it's great that we have better understanding on that matter these days, but the Nephites lives were at stake. Most of the curse referred to the way that the Lamanites lived, and it makes a lot of sense that those who follow God's word are blessed and those who don't are cursed. May I ask you a very important question? I know why I accept the Bible as the word of God, but why do you? Why do you believe it is true scripture?
I really do believe I know the reason why it is called “The Pearl of Great Price”. But, it would be nice if you added how it did get the beautiful title “Pearl Of Great Price “. Perhaps, you should do videos on how all of our standard works got their names, even the Book of Mormon?
Pearl oGP= the price (value?) of wisdom (knowledge ?) is a gift of great value. Mormon, the last prophet in BoM gathered many other documents written by the nephite peoples. Mormon compiled acts of people and events from those other ancient documents, and wrote the history/stories/events in and onto other golden plates that he had made, and bound them together as an abbreviation, like a synopsis, of the greater documentation. Mormon gave the title The Book of Mormon because he "wrote" his own book of the native nephite (not amerinds) documents. for example: Nephi wrote his two books, the "smaller" plates and the "larger" plates which contained different information. Mormon gathered Nephi's and other's plates and selected information/stories, condensed them (like the reader's digest). the plates that Joseph translated, not word by word, but by the Holy Ghost providing an "express ... sense of (words or text) in another language" were the golden plates that Mormon had made with his condensed version of the nephite people and history. did i do a fair job of explaining ?
I enjoy the Pearl of Great Price maybe more than the almighty Book of Mormon because is deep and shows the most human side of God himself, it really takes your imagination to the prehistoric time to the sands of Egypt and interestingly explain the origins of the Egyptians a thing that most scholars wouldn't know even today!, also explains the importance of the holy priesthood to administer the gospel, maybe the papyrus itself does not match with the actual book, maybe Joseph was a bit high but really who cares, this can only worry the average member of the LDS church whom sadly has not live enough to experience spiritual emotions that denies logic, or maybe hasn't seen the effects of the Holy Priesthood bring down from the ancient fathers till now, my advice for you if your faith is week , live a little, share the gospel, suffer for Christ a little, I'm not asking you to serve a mission like I did and many others but you can't based your whole life only by logic.
I wonder how many different scrolls Joseph had? Imagine an alien civilization finding 10 random books from our library in ruins, and asking them to translate them. How many different topics would they find? How hard would it be to figure out the topics of all 10 books from just a few pages from only one of the books?
I've been reading through a lot of the comments on this video, and I read through some comments on other church videos. There are a lot of people for and against the Church commenting in these official church videos. Someone curious about the Church could watch one of these videos and have their faith lifted, then read the comments and have their faith crushed. Active members of the Church could be lead away. Yet, despite having the ability to disable comments, none of their videos have comments disabled!
The result of this is a very rich, dynamic conversation about Church topics and doctrines. I really value that the Church puts 'their money where their mouth is' and doesn't just preach agency, but actively chooses to allow agency by having their comments sections enabled. The conversations between members, non-members, and anti-members are really enjoyable to read and I can't help but think that the world could take a lesson here. Instead of shutting down views that you disagree with, it's so much nicer to hear and be heard and learn together.
I participate pretty actively in comments in the Now You Know series. I do so with hopes of being helpful to people, and from some responses I've seen, I feel like I've succeeded, and at other times I've felt like I missed the mark a bit. Overall, I still hope that my efforts have been beneficial for at least some people, and in the meanwhile, by engaging in positive discussions with people--even those who are clearly using their voice to try to detract from the Church of Jesus Christ--I have learned a lot. I've tried to understand where they're coming from and not be overly dismissive of their concerns. If nothing else, the comments section have helped me to gain a deeper understanding.
USA= Freedom of Speech
This is one of the few where they allow comments.
Yeah that's not typical though.
Ive had mine lifted
I appreciate how the church acknowledges that the remaining fragments don't correlate with the Abraham text, but also gives some possible explanations, opposed to saying "Oh the scholarly evidence is wrong"
Cool stuff!
Archeologists in Egypt have to do decades of research in order to understand the whole history of mummies etc. Joseph Smith did it in a breathtaking! True or hoax?
@@pauljongen3022 I think you left out a time period in your reply (breathtaking _____?), but Joseph Smith did not succeed in doing scholarly translation. What he relied on for anything that members of the Church of Jesus Christ consider scripture is revelation. Revelation doesn't have to take a long time.
Lol..uh..ok
Just an afterthought: if I were Abraham, and I've just wrote a very important revelation from God, why would I leave it in the hands of a people that I have no affinity with. I would have taken the scrolls with me, and hand it down to my decendants, my children, who I believe would be in a much better position to understand, preserve and pass down my revelation.
Also, why would Abraham write down such important info in reformed Egyptian when that wasn't his first language?
What if you wrote that particular scroll for the people it was left with?
@@robwagner7545 he didn't die there. Nor did he mean to leave any sacred scripture (had he have written any) if he ever wrote one. It's a pagen land. Why would he?
@@ashishstanley
The Book of Abraham wasn't written in reformed Egyptian, that's why people claim they can decipher it with the Rosetta Stone.
The Book of Mormon was in reformed Egyptian.
I agree with the Church's essay and that's why I still have hope the Book of Abraham to be true.
According to both the Church and Egyptologists their statements are based on incomplete information and a hypothesis.
I agree the best way is comparing Abraham's account with Genesis and Moses's account about the creation.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 2 (Egyptologists back Smith) youtube''.
Hello. Can you please add an addendum to the video explaining how the translated pictures & symbols that Joseph wrote of Facsimile 1 & 2 are also inaccurate based on commonly known Egyptology, with faith-promoting explanations as to why that might be? I can't reconcile that part and am troubled by it. Many of us like myself have been members our whole lives and it comes as a surprise when we find out that we weren't taught the whole picture on the Book of Abraham. It pains me to say this because I am an active member of the church just looking for answers, but this video does not paint the entire picture to make an educated decision about what happened w/ the book of Abraham. All of the critical parts are missing or glossed over. For example, I found it particularly shocking when I found out that Joseph interpreted Egyptian God of "Min" (Facsimile No. 2, figure 7) as representing God sitting in his throne, when in reality it was the Egyptian ithyphallic god, that is, a sexually aroused male Egyptian deity. You can even see the male raised male anatomy in the facsimile itself, and I learned it is common Egyptology that existed 1,000 years after Abraham even lived (at the time of the funerary text). This was shocking to me and has given me sleepless nights because my paradigm has shifted on what I thought I knew and trusted about this scripture. There are so many critical parts of the gospel that I love that come out of this text. How do I reconcile that a prophet of God (Joseph) had this interpretation, and if he got something this basic wrong, how do I trust that any of the text in the Book of Abraham is actually inspired, and for that matter the Book of Mormon? Would love to get a satisfactory answer to this so I can sleep at night again, it is really eating me up.
It has also been shown that the facsimiles themselves that are attached to the texts that have been recovered, and in the Book of Abraham it references those facsimiles, clearly indicating that the found papyri is the papyri that Joseph was using to translate. The word Abraham is not even mentioned on that Papyri. I've learned all of this for the first time this past year after going my whole life thinking the narrative in this video was the whole truth. I wouldn't have known any better except for the fact that I've now done hundreds of hours studying this very subject. It seems it would be more genuine to those of us truly seeking answers to just present all of this transparently rather than gloss over the facts. Perhaps admit the papyri had nothing to do w/ Abraham and focus on the fact that Joseph was using inspiration? That approach would come across as more genuine to me. As it is, I feel upset as if the facts are being glossed over and I'm being "tricked".
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
Have you prayed to God about it? He's very good at reconciling things for us and giving us patience during the times when we have unanswered questions.
Also, I'm definitely not an expert on ancient Egyptian writings, but I haven't seen any pictures that depict Min sitting like the individual in Figure 7, and the classic Min headdress is not present in Figure 7 either. The "raised male anatomy" you mention is way too high to be the anatomy you suggested. It is located where an arm would extend forward when the upper arm is hanging down at the side. The only real similarity I see is a possible depiction of Min's flail, but I don't think that's a good enough indicator by itself to determine that the individual depicted is Min. Could there be some connection to Min in some way? Maybe; it's entirely plausible that some ancient mythology is related to actual truth known by ancient prophets, perhaps as corrupted forms of truth. One thing we do know about God is that He is a creator of life. I have no idea whether the original writings of Facsimile 2 predate depictions of Min, but one one hand I am not surprised to see some elements depicted in more than one ancient image, and on the other I don't think there's anywhere near enough visible indicators to definitively suggest that Figure 7 shows Min. Again, I'm no expert, but it just seems too far a stretch.
Thanks for your comment, Jason. We encourage you to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay emphasizes, the Book of Abraham is sacred scripture produced with the help of revelation. The veracity and value of the book isn’t settled by scholarly debate, but in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit. We hope that helps!
Hi Jason, I agree that the whole story regarding The Book of Abraham makes me skeptical. The most likely solution I found was that Joseph used the texts he bought to justify telling the story he wanted to tell. The original purpose or meaning for the texts was unimportant to him because no one at the time would have been able to double check his work. (Modern scholars believe that the papri are funeral texts that include the "Breathing Permit of Hôr" and the "Book of the Dead", neither of which have anything to do with Abraham nor does the date they were written necessarily correlate with Abraham's life). I'll let you decide for yourself what that says about Joseph's character and the value of the book itself. Of course I could be wrong but personally I trust the word of people who study Ancient Egyptian for a living over the word of someone who had no experience with Ancient Egyptian. Please remember that just because someone is important it doesn't mean that they can't be dishonest. Humans are flawed and the things they create are flawed as well. Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, Cain killed his brother, and David committed adultery with Bathsheba. I think it's just as important we remember to question the scriptures and since they are written by flawed humans we can expect flawed passages. Also keep in mind the church has a vested interest in defending the authenticity of the book so the church itself will never ostracize it regardless of if the book is true or not. I hope you can reconcile where this book belongs within your personal faith. Bless
This is the hardest doctrine for me. It's been frustrating for me, but I've been putting it off as something I'll get an answer that will satisfy me eventually. Knowing what I do about ancient Egyptian mythological and the burial methods, it is easy to see what the papyrus actual meant. The most reasonable explanation I've heard so far has been that the papyrus acted as a "key". That could be true, but it hasn't satisfied the questions yet.
I am glad the church put out an official video about it. For awhile certain things weren't talked about, so it felt like being covered up, which was hard to deal with.
Note, I'm a faithful member, not interested in being told to be strong or trying to hate on the church. Just sharing my experience.
Night Angel, remember that the most important part of seeking truth is to seek it from God directly. Not every answer comes immediately, but reassurance through the Holy Ghost does.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. It's the first video of the second series of videos from one by the name of Paul Gregersen. Paul debunked the egyptologists by demonstrating Joseph Smith was never, like the egyptologists and the anti-Mormon crowd assumed, supposed to translate like an egyptologist to begin with. In other words, Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists were wrong.
Keep looking into it. Read the CES letter. You don't have to accept something you know is illogical just because a church tells you to.
@@alannacarlson6715 The "CES Letter" was designed only to undermine people's faith while providing nothing in return. We also don't have to turn away from a witness we receive from God just because anyone else tells us to. The Church of Jesus Christ has provided information, and there's no fault in that.
@@alannacarlson6715
Those of us who've had the time to study know a majority of points in the CES Letters are inaccurate.
If you're a Christian your claim is hypocritical regarding logic.
According to logic the Bible as well as well as all the other scriptures is false. For example, it's so illogical to believe the Red Sea was divided to let Moses cross on dry land according to logic.
What you must remember if you're Christian is God's thoughts and ways are not our thoughts and ways. So just because our way of translating Egyptian is by deciphering doesn't mean it's God's way.
Knowing that the church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints is the only true church upon the earth, and knowing this by The Power Of The HOLY SPIRIT, makes all clear that even many will doubt, I will not. I testify solemnly by The Spirit of Prophecy and Revelation that Joseph Smith was a prophet of GOD. He indeed spoke with FATHER and CHRIST face to face.
Hi Skyler, thank you for sharing your testimony!
If you have read the Bible it will tell you a lot of things that are contrary to Mormonism. The LDS church teaches that Jesus and Satan were brothers but Jesus is GOD and he was an angel. There is no such thing as the 3 kingdoms celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdom. The Bible talks about the new Jerusalem that will come to the new earth where we will live with our resurrected bodies. Isaiah 43:10 says
“Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.” Elohim used to be human and became a god and was brought up into god hood according to the LDS church but it is not what the Bible says because there is no other god than GOD.
@@JesusMorales-ho2tr I will caution you that you don't actually know the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ, so you should refrain from trying to tell other people what they are. I am happy to inform you that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do indeed study the Bible, and you can find the King James Version on the Church's web site here: ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures/. If you'd like to learn more about what is taught in the Church of Jesus Christ, you can learn more at ComeUntoChrist.org.
If Joseph Smith was being metaphorical about the Book of Abraham, and it wasn't a literal translation, why wasn't he being metaphorical when he said he literally spoke with the Father and Christ face to face?
@@quemaspana It's not metaphor. There's more than one process of translation. That's it.
My favorite part from this book is in Ch 3 11-12. When Abraham talks with the Lord face to face, and then in the next verse the Lord address him as his son and stretches out his hand. This kind of relationship with the Lord speaks to me, I feel it even stronger now as I have my own son and can reach out my hand to him.
“Why do these fragments not contain texts from the Book of Abraham?” 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Exactly 😏😉, things that make you go hmmm.
It's simply a fair question, and it doesn't hurt to address it.
You have not heard of the "still missing scroll" theory espoused by Dr Gee from BYU. He used some statistical method to argue the actual scroll was included in the scroll that has Fac 1 and what is called the Book of Breathings. Here is a response to Dr Gee. As yet I have not seen any response by Dr Gee.
Yes, and since the book of Abraham is the krux of Mormonism, wouldn’t you think those scrolls would be super important to keep? It sounds like they carelessly got lost, which is very curious, just sayin.
@@tideecho If you study about it, you'll find that carelessness wasn't related at all.
"written by his own hand (Abraham), upon the papyrus" - introduction to the book of Abraham in the pearl of great price
Same thing is written on every Book of Mormon about Nephi. Did Nephi personally scribe your copy of the Book of Mormon?
Michael, you’re missing the point. Jospeh said it was written by Abraham. One thing this white washed video doesn’t mention is when the fragments were found, they were tested and the time period wasn’t even close to Abraham. Concluding there’s no way it was written by Abraham.
And it's demonstrably anything but. This church falls like a house of cards upon even the lightest investigation.
@@johncrossett6449 Your conclusion is not at all the conclusion I came to, but you seem to not have all of the information.
@@RB-zh1eq Such a demonstration would be faulty. The Church of Jesus Christ stands and God blesses millions of His children through it, despite efforts to detract from it.
The fragments that were found, were valid parts of the work that Joseph smith used to help him translate the BOA, yet, the prophet interpreted the illustrations wrong, the alphabet wrong, and the fragments that were left wrong. Joseph smith tried to explain these fragments that eventually were found today, but was innacurate. The church essays describe this (but with very careful wording). So the church went from "he translated these papyrus" to "he used the papyrus to inspire him to write the BOA. This is an issue, because if you can say that from the BOA, then you can make anything up. It may be an inspiring book, but back in the day, you can find many authors who wrote inspiring books that are not nessesarily non-fiction.
The egyptologists were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist.
Maxwell's Unearthly,
Here's the problem people who disbelieve have to solve, the Egyptologists themselves confess they don't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian.
Some scholars have proven the Egyptologists are possibly the ones mistaken, notice I wrote possibly.
The problem then is since mankind today doesn't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian how do we know who's right?
I believe The Book of Abraham because of all the correlation between The Bible and The Book of Abraham.
For example, both state that 1000 years in our time is one day where God is.
Then that provides a scientific explanation of how the earth was created in 6 days, if it's 6 days in God's time that means the earth was created in 6000 years.
I thought it was interesting what the video described about how many of these fragments may not have been used in the translation, and that the papyrus that was used has since been lost. I agree that the history of the Book of Abraham can be confusing to follow, but somehow when I pray about it I still feel the Spirit. That's a good enough answer now for me.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 There are multiple translations of the Bible in even a single language, and any thorough student of the Bible will see that they're not all equally valid. Additionally, there are instances where wording has simply been added; look up the Johannine Comma, for example. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ use the King James Version, which is available at ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures. As to believing by faith "on feelings", I responded to your comment on the video entitled, What Are the Book of Mormon Gold Plates? | Now You Know (ruclips.net/video/4EUGSlra2Cg/видео.html) and you may find my thoughts insightful.
Your comment of '''Joseph Smith tried to explain these fragments that were found today, but was innacurate.'' Inaccurate in the minds of those unintelligent enough to have assumed Joseph Smith was supposed to render a revelation/explanation that concurred with the translation from the egyptologists. The EGYPTOLOGISTS were DEBUNKED for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist, why are you repeating the same ole anti-Mormon LIES?
I just found out that scientist have proven that the scrolls have nothing to do with Abraham. So sad that we’re being lied to.
Did you not watch the video? It directly addresses this. Also, are you not praying to God? He doesn't lie to us.
Jay Britton Fisher I pray but I also trust all the scientist who say this has nothing to do with Abraham. Don’t follow blind like a sheep do your research.
@@jamesbenson4943 This was directly addressed in the video. If you go in with the wrong expectations, you're bound to be disappointed. And please be assured, I have done quite a bit of research and when I follow, it's not blindly at all.
@@00Fisher00 when you go in with what you believe are the right expectations you are only going to look for things that will confirm your bias.
@@jcee6886 My approach has been to seek truth both by examining information available and consulting with God, who is knowledgeable and wise. I'm wary of confirmation bias; it's a mistake to assume such about others when you don't know their background.
Why would Abraham write an ancient Egyptian funeral text?
Who wrote the book of Abraham?
The obvious answers are that the funerary text is a separate writing, and that Abraham wrote the book of Abraham. I hope that helps.
Jay Britton Fisher then I don't understand how the book of Abraham was translated from the funeral text if they're separate documents from separate authors. Can you explain what I'm missing?
I don't study the dirt on the eyes of the blind man that Christ healed, just like I don't care so much about these papyri.
@@kenhilker2507 You are looking for the answer of what things are, not how to be. Taking a scientific approach to religion will keep you from the greater l truths with respect on how to be. Take it from a LDS individual who is also a graduate of science.
He can’t explain that nor can the church apologists! The truth is, the church’s claim that the book of Abraham was “written by Abraham’s own hand” is actually false! Welcome to the entrance of the the Mormon church rabbit hole! It dark, deep and treacherous!
According to saints in gospel library, Joseph was interested in the scrolls and raised $2400 for them. They were struggling financially as they were working on the Kirtland Temple.
I'm still confused this is literally not what happened and people are accepting history to be re written?
I certainly am glad Joseph bought unrelated funeral scrolls and then made up some book of scripture.
I thought they bought the plundered Egyptian mummies to turn a side show profit in the upstairs of their storehouse and the scrolls just happened to be with the bodies they bought.
@@fieldmyestas6184
The Church's history is not being rewritten in the sense of changing the history, products and programs they're making are making it easier to understand.
Not many of today's people are willing to research nor are taught how to choose trustworthy sources, no doubt from their reactions they look at the 19th century through a 21st century lense.
30 years ago gay marriage was against the law, wouldn't today's people view that as discrimination?
The world's sense of right and wrong continually changes with time.
Most people I come across and producers of anti-church material have no intention to understand things. Who would compare the Nephites following the law of Moses in Old Testament times to the New Testament?
"The Book of Mormon contradicts the New Testament because they shed animals."
The Nephites were following the law of Moses in 2 Nephi so of course it's going to give different teachings to the New Testament after Christ fulfilled the law of Moses.
Trust me, lots of people on anti-church material have intended to mislead me and trick me, especially with partial truths.
• What do we know about the producer?
• What is the purpose of the material?
• Is the producer qualified?
• Does the producer get anything out of it?
• Does the producer have some kind of agenda?
To know whether a source can be trusted or not depends on who the producer is and his/her intentions.
This was not a good video. It caused more questions than it answers and makes the church look bad.
the church has posted a more in-depth essay about the Book of Abraham at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
Thanks for sharing this resource, @beladee.
Just one question for you about the essay you mentioned. Can you find anywhere in there where it mentions to members of the church that we have three different manuscripts from Joseph's scribes that have the characters from a common funerary text called the Book of Breathings in one column (the same ones that come after facsmile 1 on the papyrus that is in the church's possession), and the Book of Abraham in the adjacent column. This is the most important piece of evidence on the matter, clearly indicating that the Breathings text is what Joseph believed he was translating from. And yet this most crucial piece of evidence is intentionally withheld from the essay. Food for thought. If you want truth you'll have to look beyond the essays, though I do recommend starting with them.
@@russellash8458
Today's people still don't have a full understanding of ancient Egyptian including the Egyptologists, that explains why the Egyptologists never confirmed themselves correct.
Even though this can't be solved through scholarship and debate, just Google is the book of Abraham true, you'll then receive some results saying it's true, and others saying it's false.
The truth is, we don't know who's translated correctly or neither.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having questions pertaining to this or anything related to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I grew up in the church but that being said we never held scripture study in my home so most of my testimony of Jesus Christ and His Church comes from personal experiences, prayer, and personal revelation that I've received for myself, rather than an extensive knowledge of scriptures and church history. In the past few years I realized that I wasn't comfortable with my testimony being where it is so I'm starting what I call a "question journal". As I read scriptures/listen to conference talks/ research church history/ etc, I write down ANY question that comes to mind. Then I search for the answers. And I'm surprised that I'm having fun with it! I'm finding that the more questions that I answer, the more questions that I have which is so awesome! I hope I never stop learning about Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ, the Church (and its history), and even myself. If I ever stop learning then I will stop progressing.
This is so wholesome and I can totally relate. You’re awesome.
I don't see how the missing fragments/missing scroll theory makes sense when the text of BoA refers to the facsimile that we have and that facsimile doesn't have anything to do with Abraham. Also Smith started his own Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar to figure out of the characters of the papyri used for BoA. Those characters that Smith thought were translated into the BoA are on the papyri fragments the church now possesses. Also, if the whole thing was done by inspiration with no relation to the text, didn't God deceive Joseph by letting him think it was on the papyri? It would be like the gold plates of BoM having zero to do with the published BoM.
The Smithsonian Institute obtained the supposed scroll AND SAID THAT SMITHS INTERPRETATION WAS TOTALLY WRONG, SO MUCH SO HE DIDN’T GET ONE THING RIGHT! LETTERS TO THIS AFFECT ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE!
From what I've studied on the subject, my understanding is that the message in the Book of Abraham was never written in Egyptian, but rather it was written in code so that the sacred things Abraham wrote would not be discovered.
At the end of the "translation" process, Joseph Smith still couldn't read Egyptian, but he did discover the encoded message Abraham left on the papyri.
In other words, the actual Egyptian characters on the papyri had very little to do with the actual message Joseph Smith was trying to extract. At least, that's my take on the matter. We're all entitled to our own beliefs.
@@FormerMPSGT I see nothing at all to that effect from the Smithsonian. I do know that the Smithsonian's official statement about the Book of Mormon is that they do not use it as a historical reference, and that they don't find a connection between the cultures of the Book of Mormon and the North American cultures known from archaeological study, and that is exactly what I would expect. If you're looking for a statement from the Smithsonian that attacks the Church of Jesus Christ, you won't find it.
The Book of Abraham is amazing. I wish it was longer! So many important fundamental truths are taught in its pages.
I'm just now noticing this vid from 3 years ago so commenting late but...
A few thoughts to consider:
In facsimile No. 1
-The figure laying down has moving legs (in the air and seperated) indicating he is alive - this is not seen in other funeral papyri
-The figure standing at the left is standing straight up - other funeral papyri show that figure leaning over the figure laying down. This indicates the standing figure is doing something different toward the figure laying down than what it is doing in other funeral papyri
-The figures under the person laying down is different than in other funeral papyri, indicating maybe a different ritual is being performed here
-I like to watch a lot of documentaries and a couple I've seen regarding the dead sea scrolls have mentioned it is common for these scrolls and others to be the copies of the original writings. Every scripture in existance is a copy or copy of a language translation of the original writings and yet we say those writings were written by the original writers, because the original documents were written by them regardless if it is a copy. So it is very possible that these papyri found among the dead sea scrolls were written copies of the original documents which were written by Abraham to preserve his writings.
-Egyptologists' understanding and knowledge changes and the consensus among some Egyptologists are different. Just recently Egyptologists are starting to admit, because of what geologists are discovering about the Sphynx, that it is much older than they had previously thought and the carving of the head being much newer than the rest of the carvings wasn't decided until recently just before that
-The church did not say they are funeral papyri, but that there are Egyptologists who believe they are - probably because of how similar they are to funeral papyri. But history shows our understanding of Egyptolgy isn't stagnant and the differences are there
-Something worth adding is with the head of the figure standing which was missing from the papyrus and drawn differently than how it probably was originally isn't significant to the story being told from the Papyrus since it is mentioned in the translation he was an Egyptian Priest attempting to sacrifice young Abraham (Abram at the time). That is the information that was important
-Regarding facsimiles No. 2 & 3 - for now I will repeat a couple points from above:
-Egyptology's understanding and knowledge changes and the consensus among some Egyptologists are different. Just recently Egyptologists are starting to admit, because of what geologists are discovering about the Sphynx, that it is much older than they had previously thought and the carving of the head being much newer than the rest of the carvings wasn't decided until recently just before that
-I like to watch a lot of documentaries and a couple I've seen regarding the dead sea scrolls have mentioned it is common for these scrolls and others to be the copies of the original writings. Every scripture in existance is a copy or copy of a language translation of the original writings and yet we say those writings were written by the original writers, because the original documents were written by them regardless if it is a copy. So it is very possible that these papyri found among the dead sea scrolls were written copies of the original documents which were written by Abraham to preserve his writings
-The church did not say they are funeral papyri, but that there are Egyptologists who believe they are - probably because of how similar they are to funeral papyri. But history shows our understanding of Egyptolgy isn't stagnant and the differences are there
Last thoughts -
Each time anything comes forth disputing the validity and truthfulness of the church and the character of the Lord's anointed it has always been a test for the members to see if they will remember the many evidences throughout their lives of its truthfulness, the many confirmations of the Spirit, the immense peace and blessings from living the gospel, and the other things which have already intellectually and scientifically supported church scriptures and beliefs. Often the answers to our questions do not come until after the trial of our faith. And Christ said how blessed are they who have believed without seeing.
While we are encouraged to gain knowledge and understanding to confirm truths in the mind, heart, and soul, God knows we will not always know the things of the mind and until then asks us to trust him who has all knowledge. We also know we can gain truths for ourselves directly from the Source if we ask and seek with patience and humility. God delights in sincere seekers of truth.
the bible is GOD"S ONLY and FINAL revelation to humanity nothing more - revelation 22:18-19
I'll be happy to help you understand the passage. In it, the apostle John referred to "this book", which could not have meant the Bible because it didn't exist in a single volume until several hundred years later. I would encourage you to learn more about how the Bible in its various forms has come to be. For many decades, while the Bible did not exist, it would have been obvious to everyone who read his words there that he was referring to the book that we call Revelation. Moses wrote basically the same thing toward the end of his own writings in Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, but it would be silly to say that no prophetic writings could follow, just as it would be silly to try to close God's mouth and say that He cannot give more revelation to man. John's final words suggest the opposite in Jon 21:25. "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
I hope that you find truth in all of God's word as Jesus Christ desired.
Noah Solomon,
"this book" is not referring to the Bible, look in Revelation 10 and read an angel confronted John and gave him a little book, "this book" is referring to the book John received from the angel in The Isle of Patmos.
Also take notice of verse 19 saying, "this prophecy", the Bible is not all one prophecy, so which prophecy was John writing about?
"this prophecy" is referring to The Return of Jesus Christ, the great and dreadful day.
An angel told Nephi John would write about the return of Christ.
1 Nephi 14:27-28
27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.
28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
There are books in the bible written after revelation was
Matthew’s book in the New Testament is mainly written to a Jewish audience. Many jews at the time didn’t believe they needed “another book”, after all, they had all the amazing writings and stories of the ancient prophets. What more did they need, right?! I’m grateful for Matthew and the other apostles and disciples who wrote down their accounts. The Old Testament is great, but so is the New Testament. The accounts of the ancient people and prophets who walked the American continent are also powerful stories that testify of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and His goodness. “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold.” John 10:16. When people say the Book of Mormon is false I think, “who are you to say an entire group of people and their experiences with God are false?” Those same people also remind me of the Jews, thousands of years ago, who believed Matthew didn’t have the authority to write another book of scripture. Read things (the Quran, the apocrypha, the Book of Mormon) and pray for discernment and for personal revelation. God will help those who search, pray and knock.
“Ye shall know them by their fruits” Matthew 7:16
“Seek learning, even by study AND also by faith.” D&C 88:118
Thats convenient for you to believe
It doesn't matter how or where it was translated from. What I believe is that it's from God. No uneducated man can write such books and invent everything from his head. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not the church of God, which one is? There has to be a creator of all the things in the universe and there has to be an explanation to things and this is the only church that does provide.
Yes! Love to see comments like this after seeing all the negative. ❤
Here’s the thing. This story does seem strange as well as quite a few others from church history but when I read the Pearl of Great Price there’s no doubt in my mind that it’s true. The spirit entirely overcomes me especially when it teaches the doctrine of our premortal life and about exaltation. We might not understand all the details of history but if we gain a witness from God that something is true then it’s true.
Please just keep in mind the warning in the Bible which tells us that our hearts hearts are deceitful above all thing... this is to say that a way to know if something is of God is test it against his New Testament and the words of Jesus. If anything contradicts what Jesus said it is not true. Remember evil deeds happen everyday because of the emotions of ones heart. Having a burning bosom is not how Christ teaches us to know truth. Please find a kjv bible that has no Joseph Smith Translation and read the New Testament.
Just because something feels inspiring, doesn't mean it's non-fiction 👍
@@TheBirdierouge Like in Proverbs 3:5, which tells us, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Right? After Christ's disciples spoke with the resurrected Lord, they recognized him by the feeling in their hearts; they said the following: "Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24:32) Jesus Christ Himself said, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26) Paul explains the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22, and it very much touches our heart. Just so you know, the Church of Jesus Christ does indeed refer to the King James Version of the Bible, and you can see that for yourself here: ChurchOfJesusChrist.org/study/scriptures/. May I ask you about your beliefs? I know why I study the Bible, but why do you? Why do you trust the Bible to truly contain God's word?
@@TheBirdierouge
Also keep in mind that the Bible teaches again and again the Holy Ghost influences through our hearts.
I really like how the Church has been putting out these little videos explaining simply all these different topics that many people have trouble understanding. Thank you!
People have trouble understanding because the current narrative contradicts the churches previous stances on these issues.
Couldn't agree more. These are well organized, simple, and straight to the point.
@@johnyjohny5559
There is no contradicting narrative, there's contradicting assumptions by others.
I've seen many exmembers claiming the Church deceived them with videos of Joseph translating the plates.
For the record, some times the plates were visible in the same room, the Church's history even states Joseph allowed his scribes to try translating. As well as Joseph translating with the plates hidden.
Joseph Smith said very little himself of how he translated the plates, Joseph always said "translated through the power of God."
People just assume to translate something it must be visible.
Simply, translate has a broader meaning than people think.
@@johnyjohny5559 The hostile anti-Mormon christian driven egyptological interpretation, OR translate back to a biblical text (the original). These are your only two choices here, which is it?
@@danielmoore4024 or is it the fact the church does not want you know that he use to look for gold by putting the same stone in a hat.
There is something strange about how the Book of Abraham came about and it has challenged my faith. As a result my faith has grown and I appreciate the power of a testimony more then ever. I do believe that the book of Abraham is true and its teachings are important. I don't know how it is true but I have faith in the spirit of prophecy because I have experienced it first hand. I also know our Heavenly parents are real because of personal revelation and I trust President Nelson as the prophet of these latter days. Thanks Jesus for all you have done for us. I can't wait for your return. Please come back soon.
Thank you for sharing your experience and testimony!
Based on these theories of why the book does not match the source documents in any way, why continue to use the word "translation"? If I see a mountain and it inspires me to compose a song, I am not translating the rocks.
Hi J. P. I think you bring up a valid point. I'm no historian nor expert on this subject. I wonder if some of it has to do simply with the familiarity and simplicity of the term with members, and that it is only relatively recently that (latter 20th century) that the idea of it being a typical translation may be different. It would be interesting to know where the term "translation" first started, and if that idea is being continued due to familiarity (but with an asterisk). Perhaps there is a better word or phrase that could more accurately describe the unknown nature of the origins of the Book of Abraham. Revealed? Inspired? I realize some may use the word "faked", and I respect differing opinions on this topic. It is probably not a subject that will ever be fully resolved or understood through archaeology/theories.
Interestingly, in the Doctrine and Covenants it reads that Joseph Smith "has translated the book [of Mormon], even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true." Royal Skousen on his work of textual variants of the Book of Mormon gives his conclusion that the words were "given" (through revelation) to Joseph Smith, which seems to be a different process than translating. Assuming the statement from Doctrine and Covenants was in fact revealed from the Lord (again there will be differing opinion which I respect) even the Lord's definition of translating seems to be broader than our definition.
The restoration of the gospel through Joseph Smith is like a giant 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle to me. It was messy. I have to try out pieces here and there, and some fit, and some don't yet. Some pieces can be really challenging, even frustrating. This is all pretty long winded, but to say that, perhaps, yes, there may be a better word than translation. I'd like to see some other words included in the discussion as possibilities also. In the end, I'm very grateful for the gift of prayer and the still small voice of the Lord's spirit that has provided times of what the scripture have called "sure knowledge" (or assurance knowledge as I call it). I've accepted that I will never have a "perfect knowledge" in this life, but feel that overall, the Lord is behind this work.
Hi J.P., thanks for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We encourage you and others to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham, which addresses some of your concerns: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay explains, the word translation typically assumes an expert knowledge of multiple languages. Joseph Smith claimed no expertise in any language. The Lord did not require Joseph Smith to have knowledge of Egyptian, but by the gift and power of God, Joseph received knowledge about the life and teachings of Abraham. We hope that helps!
I have enjoyed lots of music that “translates rocks”. By that I mean that I can feel and understand what the composer is communicating to the listener. I do not need to see the mountain to know it was there. The same is true for the Book of Abraham. I don’t need to see the source material-which is not fully available!-to feel and understand it’s truthfulness. As a prophet of God Joseph Smith was able to translate what God wanted him to. Whether the characters on the papyri were the mountain or the rocks makes no difference to me. I know the final result is God’s word.
@@churchofjesuschrist That does not help. Joseph Smith perhaps did not claim expertise in any language, but he did claim that the knowledge he received about the life and teachings of Abraham through the gift and power of God were a direct translation of the hieroglyphs into English, not that he looked at the papyri and was inspired to receive entirely unrelated content.
Because Joseph Smith said he translated it.
I certainly am glad Joseph bough funeral scrolls not at all related to Mormonism and then made up some book of scripture.
"Mormon" lived in the ancient Americas hundreds of years after Abraham lived, and Abraham lived on the opposite side of the world so yes clearly they aren't related whatsoever.
@@SOCscoreCER Mormonism isn't referring to the person Mormon, it's referring to the religion itself. The church is simply defending a clearly ridiculous claim that he found words from a document that when properly translated, contain very different content.
@@bobmouse9372 Mormons don't want to be called Mormons anymore. Gordon B. Hinckley is probably rolling in his grave.
@@johnyjohny5559 Mormon is 1 syllable, good luck trying to get people to say that dang long name.
@@bobmouse9372 we are more properly known as latter day saints. Also "mormonism" really isn't a thing either, since Christ is the center of our faith we would prefer the term "Christian" or "LDS Christianity"
Thank you for this brief summary of the Book of Abraham.
I think it is important to have another prophet besides Moses that received a revelation of the creation of the world. We have two witnesses and cannot forever deny what it truly means.
It’s helpful but still quite hard to fully understand/accept (I meant digest/assimilate here^^) some of the explanations 😭
You don't have to accept their explanation. Do your own research and think for yourself.
Bit convenient that they’re mostly destroyed so we can’t cross check the manuscripts with the methods we use today to read the glyphs with
Hi jh, thanks for your comment. We encourage you to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng As the essay emphasizes, the veracity and value of the book of Abraham isn’t settled by scholarly debate, but in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit. We hope that helps!
jh,
we will all come across trials of faith.
In my experiences the people in charge of my finances told their leaders lies to reduce what I'm entitled to. My dad is not a member and told me to lie on the application form, instead I kept my covenants and prayed and as an outcome, my finances doubled which I never expected.
Faith in Christ without wavering and obedience to His commandments will make the Holy Ghost confirm the truth to you if you go somewhere silent enough to hear Him.
@@churchofjesuschrist Thank you sincerely for your kind and personal comment. I will read the article you recommended :) (FYI, your comment has not only helped my study on this topic, but it has also kind of spiritually saved me at this very moment. So again, I greatly appreciate your interest.)
Are we all familiar with the concept of "Ockhams Razor"? - very simply stated it means that the simplest explanation for a thing us almost always the most accurate. One example could be attributing your annoying headache to possibly having a brain tumor or Bubonic Plague (both of which can cause headaches) where the most reasonable explanation is that you are simply a little dehydrated. Juxtaposing Ockams Razor to the fact that there is absolutely no correlation between Joseph Smith's "translation" of this papyrus fragment to the "Book of Abraham", the most obvious explanation is that Smith simply made it up and is - therefore - a liar and a fraud (despite what the spin-doctors in Salt Lake City would prefer you to believe).
You've got a faulty premise, which will lead to a faulty conclusion. It's clear to everyone that the papyrus fragments that remain don't contain the text of the Book of Abraham. But there is a lot we don't know, such as, for example, what other papyrus Joseph Smith had possessed at the time of translation. Jumping to conclusions based on missing data is not a success of logic and science.
@@00Fisher00 Here is what is clear. The surviving papyrus clearly contains the source for facsimile #1 with the lion couch scene vignette. And the text in the BoA chapter 1 verse 12 clearly indicates that the vignette and text are on the same record, when it says "and that you may have a knowledge of this altar, I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of *this* record."
In addition, on the Joseph Smith papers website, you can see that Joseph Smith's scribes clearly used the same papyri. In these documents (that were produced in quadruplicate by Joseph's scribes), you can see the same characters from the surviving papyri on the left column and the English text in the right column that matches the text of the Book of Abraham. And obviously these translations are blatantly incorrect. There is no "jumping to conclusions" here. The evidence is extremely damning.
@@00Fisher00 Any response?
@@danhoen4129 Hi. I don't get perfect notifications from RUclips, so I didn't see this until I happened to check. I will state up front that I am not a deep scholar of the Book of Abraham. I've known a number of people who were, but I have a lot of interests and am not the best expert. So don't be surprised if I don't have much of an explanation for you on any specific point. I hope that's not too disappointing. If you have a link to that particular section on the Joseph Smith Papers web site, then I could look into it more, and maybe I would find some insight that would be helpful. That being said, and I'll repeat this from before, there are simply things that we don't know. That's very normal for historical and archaeological work. And what we do know changes as we learn more. What may seem "damning" at first can become quite the opposite. For example, the names Joseph Smith listed with gods associated with Facsimile 1 appeared to be incorrect based on earlier Egyptian studies but as time as passed those gods have been discovered to in fact be associated in other records.
@@gordianknot9595 I have to disappoint in this case, because I do not have those references on hand. It's something I've seen before, but I didn't keep track of. I'd like to think they could be found in not much time with an online search.
can you also explain why the church promotes joseph smith sitting at a table with the gold plates translating them. ive seen the image. yet never when the missionaries"teaching" did they say joseph looked into a hat with a stone in it and put the hat against his face / head. blocking out any light and view of any "gold plates" basically he was not even looking at the " gold plates " and thereby he translated said plates by looking into a hat at a stone. please explain here why was that never mentioned in the missionary discussions? and really why that fact is hidden from investigators of the church. why does the church not tell people this fact about the hat?
As a former missionary waiting for reassignment currently during this pandemic, it is confusing to talk about in-depth things to new people interested in the Church. If questions about more details arise, we are more than happy to address them. The purpose of those discussions is truly based around Jesus Christ and becoming converted to Him. In the Saints Vol. 1 book published by the Church this fact isn't hidden along with many other details I never knew about. The book is free to read on: history.churchofjesuschrist.org/saints?lang=eng&cid=rdb_v_saints_eng
Hope I helped a bit! Questions are always good to have!
Hi Harry. We encourage you or others with questions about the Book of Mormon translation process to review the gospel topic essay linked below: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng In addition, in a 2018 Face to Face event, Elder Quentin Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and several Church historians responded to a similar concerns as to why the Church has not been more open about certain events or topics from Church history. See their response at 14:18 here: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html We hope that helps you and others with questions.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 You keep approaching this from a position of disbelief, which will never lead you to understanding. Someday you'll understand, and I just hope it isn't too late to do you any good during this life.
In 2015 I had two Angels visit me. They came in human form. They were not bathed in brilliant light they did not float and did not have wings. They touched me physically and specifically gave me instructions to follow. Which I admit I did without question. The instruction was not something I have ever heard or done before. The amazing thing was the instruction was so simple and not complicated. The instruction was in its purest form and from that alone I knew these beings were different from normal people. I was then shown many things pertaining to life, to my life and my status in this life. and some things pertaining to me in the next life. I was shown and taught things pertaining to the eternities and the universe. I gained an understanding of Time, Creation and Death and the real process of death and the transition we go through when passing from this life to the next, that the majority of people do not comprehend or even really know about and understand. I know my experience and there are not 2, 3, 4 different versions. Unlike the many different versions of the first vision. I only have one version of my experience with the Angels, why is that? Also nowhere in my experience or interaction with the two angels did they mention the mormon church. I know there is a higher power that is concerned for ALL mankind not just the Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses or the Jews or the Muslims. Or the Chinese or the Russians or the people in the "isles of the sea" All life is important to the higher power and the message and answer is for everyone. The higher power would not be just or fair if it just singled out one group for a better afterlife. Love is what everything is all about
''why does the church not tell people this fact about the hat?'' The egyptologists were debunked in 2014 due to the assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist, why aren't the dishonest anti-Mormons telling people about this fact? Now back to your question about the hat. I was inquired of by one who asked, why is it you see Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon from the golden plates but you can see on the church website that he mainly used the stone. I informed him of what I read, what I read is that it's more aesthetically pleasing to see Joseph Smith translating from the golden plates than a rock in a hat. Also it went on to say you might see an artists depiction of a buffed Nephite Warrior on a horse, though it says nowhere in the Book of Mormon that horses were even ridden (the chariots in the Book of Mormon appear to be horseless), the buffed Nephite Warrior is just an artists rendition. Just like the picture of translating from the golden plates. It's more aesthetically pleasing.
Now you know... only the facts that the church chooses to put out regarding this topic 💁♀️
What else is anyone supposed to know from a short video produced by the Church? It's an introductory explanation that many people have found helpful.
Where are the prophets and apostles teaching truth on these difficult and confusing matters? Book of Abraham, Polygamy, polyandry, racism are causing people to leave the church. Yet the apostles are silent? Why must we turn to RUclips videos and Gospel Topics Essays?
The egyptologists were debunked in 2014.
Anyone can turn to God and receive a witness from the Holy Ghost about the truth of scripture and the Church. Membership in the Church has always been a matter of faith and revelation.
They probably don't want to expose the general membership to those topics all at once. If they just put up resources online mostly just people who are already interested in those topics will see it.
Matthew Fullmer,
The Church leaders have greater priorities than dealing with any issues members are having.
I've never been a Bishop but I already know that's a lot of work and commitment, a Bishop watches over a Ward, so how much work do you think it is to watch over the Church globally by as few as 15 people?
The early Saints didn't find any of this problematic like this generation, 30 years ago gay marriage was against the law, wouldn't today's people call that discrimination?
Well it wasn't viewed as discrimination 30 years ago to restrict gay marriage.
I'm a convert and after enough research this wasn't bothering at all, if this is so bad don't you find it odd the Church is putting it in the public's plain sight?
@Matthew Fullmer, thanks for sharing your concern. The Church has made a tremendous effort to make its history more accessible and understandable with the publication of the Gospel Topics Essays, the Joseph Smith Papers project, the narrative history series, "Saints," and accompanying Church History topics and videos, the "New You Know" series, and more. All of these efforts are led and directed by the senior leaders of the Church. In a 2018 Face to Face event, Elder Quentin Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and several Church historians responded to a similar question about why the Church has not been more open about controversial Church history topics. See their response at 14:18 here: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html. We hope that helps!
So grateful for the truths that are taught in the Book of Abraham and the Pearl of Great Price. They are truly treasures.
An important element is omitted from this video. The Abraham-Egyptian papers now available for viewing on the Joseph Smith Papers Project clearly show Joseph and his scribes working out the translation. Egyptian characters are shown in the left margin, with corresponding "translations" in the body of each page. These documents reveal the "translation" process and debunk the missing scroll theory. We're left with the catalyst theory, which is also shaky ground since Joseph tells us he was "translating" Egyptian to English. Too bad, I once enjoyed thinking of myself as an intelligence that was organized before the world was. I now realize I'm just another credulous guy who fell for a fanciful story.
You've drawn incorrect conclusions. Joseph Smith and others with him took an interest in ancient documents they procured and made efforts to understand Egyptian hieroglyphics, with about the same level of success as others of the time who did not have access to the newer knowledge provided by the Rosetta Stone. The papyri they had was later sold and damaged, and we don't know how much of it was lost; only a few fragments remain, which don't appear to correspond to the Book of Abraham. It stands to reason that among the papyri he once had, there was a portion that could have been translated directly using modern knowledge of hieroglyphics that Joseph Smith didn't have. We know that a key part of all of Joseph Smith's translation work was revelation, and it was certainly the case when he was translating the Book of Abraham. If you only ever *thought* these things, without going to ask God directly about them, you didn't go far enough, but you still can.
@@00Fisher00 Thanks for your response Jay. My conclusions were arrived at after reading dozens of articles and considering many opinions. Moroni's formula was employed. Ultimately Robert Ritner is more persuasive and credible than John Gee and the spirit never told me otherwise. I can't tell whether Joseph Smith was a fraud, or perhaps delusional or mentally ill. I don't believe he was inspired. I respect your sincerely held beliefs and wish you all the best.
@@ericmattingley4652 Joseph Smith was an interesting person with flaws, but for my part, I have no reason to think that he was deceitful or deluded. Apart from the guidance I've received personally from God throughout my life, there's simply the existence of the Church itself, which was restored by Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ spoke of prophets, warning against false prophets, but saying we would know them by their fruits. The idea that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could have its origins in deceit is more than a little unlikely. The Church leads millions of people to voluntarily seek personal betterment through study and service to others. The Church unites people in common efforts in a way that is unparalleled (and having observed other organizations--most especially the U.S. Army and other government agencies--that ought to be united to do good things, I can say that there's a distinct and sizable difference in the degree of organizational unity). The Church manages money incredibly well while relying fundamentally on voluntary contributions, despite inherent human tendencies toward greed and selfishness that are common in individuals and organizations. The Church is able to do that while also giving greatly to people in need; this happens on a local, personal level, a community level, and in efforts that span the globe, and the Church does this despite having a relatively very small number of active members who are able to make significant financial contributions. The Church makes huge amounts of scripture and other educational material available to the world at no cost; the Church's web sites are amazing collections of resources. The Church has facilities to produce food and other items of basic need that are downright impressive. The Church builds temples across the world that exist for the sole benefit of helping people draw closer to God, and the Church maintains those temples with almost incredibly high standards. (If you've never seen a temple's mechanical room, I hope that someday you get to; they're shockingly clean.) The Church allows for freedom of thought and belief, which means that there are plenty of Church members who at some point make decisions to distance themselves, but despite that, the Church continues to grow simply out of millions of people independently receiving spiritual confirmations from God. The leaders of the Church receive and provide guidance for the world that allows us to prepare for and even thrive during difficulties including things like a broad collapse of important family values and a global pandemic. I don't mention these things to try to force a conclusion on you, but for me, I see God's hand in the work of the Church. And of course there are other organizations in the world doing good, but I've never seen anything that comes close to accomplishing what God does through the restored Church of Jesus Christ. It doesn't make sense to me that such a magnificent work could have a corrupted root; those who have suggested such a thing and separated themselves from the Church have not produced anything remotely comparable.
I have learned that Joseph Smith was not a perfect man; like everyone, he was in some ways a product of the culture he grew up in, and he had his own personality with his own character flaws. He never claimed perfection himself. He ended up having less time in life to work on personal growth than I've had in mine, and I still have ample room for personal improvement. And yet every man or woman who has been called to do God's work has been imperfect. I don't feel the need to try to judge Joseph Smith personally, especially since I think it's waaaay beyond my ability, but I do find myself able to judge whether or not the work he did was of God. I'll suggest that in matters of history, in most respects we have limited data to work with, and I think the greatest mistake is if we make conclusions based on missing evidence rather than simply accepting what we don't know and relying on what we do.
Please remember that no single person on the Earth is expected to have the scholarly ability or resources to derive all truth, especially before charting a path in life, but we don't need to. I hope that you are able to feel God's love for you as you seek to develop your relationship with Him, and that someday soon you are able to find confidence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I say so because I know what great happiness and peace it brings me in my life, and I hope for the same for everyone else. If you don't believe for now, I hope that God gives you what you need so that you can sometime soon. Thank you for the well wishes and know that they are reciprocated.
A lot of people have tried discouraging me by using The Book of Abraham, thanks to my testimony of what I already knew I could tell these people criticising the Church were not telling me everything.
Here's a quote from Elder. Jeffrey R. Holland I've always liked;
"Hold fast to what you already know and stand strong until additional knowledge comes.... In this Church, what we know will always trump what we do not know."
It didn't take long to get the message people opposing the church throwing rocks at it never tell people everything.
I testify Jesus is the Christ and chiefcorner stone of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that He has given His people prophets and apostles to guide us.
I leave this with you in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and testimony, Daniel!
I'm so grateful to have the Book mormon in my life and this video teach me more understand about the Book Mormon and Jesus Christ latter day saint and Thanks you for uploading this beautiful video 🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤
This video is about the Book of Abraham
Ask someone for help.
Yuyun Ningsih,
I love The Book of Mormon as well, it's so useful of how it solves so many debates between different Christian Churches.
Like John 10:16 in the Bible with Christ saying he has sheep not of that fold.
Then in 3 Nephi 15 he says the other sheep are the other tribes of Israel that were lead out of Jerusalem.
Indeed this video helps one understand more. The egyptologists and the anti-Mormon crowd were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist. Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
@@Doc-Pleroma-naut No, he's just pointing out that they were taking the wrong approach to the issue in the first place. That's all. I must say that using unkind words makes you appear rather petty and rude. Even if you disbelieve, there's no reason for insults.
Please upload Spanish subtitles. That would help this video become a more helpful tool.
So he didn’t really translate them ?
Not literally. He used it as a means to recieve revelation. His "translation" is not the same "translation" that most people think of when they hear that word.
Hi Jarron, thanks for sharing your question. We encourage you and others to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
As the essay explains, the word translation typically assumes an expert knowledge of multiple languages. Joseph Smith claimed no expertise in any language. The Lord did not require Joseph Smith to have knowledge of Egyptian, but by the gift and power of God, Joseph received knowledge about the life and teachings of Abraham. We hope that helps!
@@johnyjohny5559 so he could've used a "Dora the explorer" book and could've still been "inspired" to write the book of Abraham?
This happens to me all the time. #ADHD life...
@@ashishstanley Why would Dora the Explorer inspire revelation about Abraham?
I am so thankful for all Joseph Smith sacrificed to bring us scriptures.
One great thing about these videos is how many people who aren't members of the church seeing them. If you have questions or want to learn more got to the church website or contact the missionaries.
Thanks for your comment, Nathaniel. For those interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ, contact the missionaries here: www.comeuntochrist.org/requests/missionary-visit
If you read the work of Egyptologists like Dr Ritner you will see problems with the Book o Abraham. There is no missing scroll. Dr Gee has argued for the longer scroll.However his arguments have been responded to by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith.
I studied this as a faithful member. Made me leave the church.
@@robertaugust2610 I recommend consulting Heavenly Father while studying. He gives us answers that strengthen our conviction of the Church of Jesus Christ, and when those answers come slowly He gives us patience and reassurance.
Happy's Easter and Passover to all Christian's Church community's and Jewish community's around the world's. Happy's SHABBAT SHALOM.
I'm grateful for the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that we have a prophet on earth!
This one is hard to swallow. but thank you for coming forward to address it.
This is one of those cases where there are things we simply don't know with available information. That happens sometimes. What is most important is to continue seeking revelation from God and relying on the witness we have received and continue to receive from Him, while recognizing the great things He does for us through the Church of Jesus Christ. I hope the best for you as you do those things.
Mat 7:6 ...trample them. I think of how much our Heavenly Father's love is to reach out with such guidance, answers, wisdom through these servants of old. Then I think what we've done to those that were inspired to create this country to ensure God's gift of agency prevails here and elsewhere. ...with out doubt the The Book of Mormon is a liahona in my life to see how much Good reminds me of His love. And to respect all those that fight for the building up of these freedoms (plan of happiness).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience, Edwin.
so the big question is why publish facsimile 1 saying it is depicting abrahams sacrifice when it has been proven its not.
Hi Harry, thanks for your question. We encourage you or others with questions to read the Church’s in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
I'm glad the church has finally released the information that the papyri were funerary texts but how this explains Book of Abraham is still hard to grasp. If the Book of Abraham was true its origin was from direct revelation from God to JS. I really doubt that it had anything to do with the papyri at all(unless the burnt pieces were of a different scroll) although they could stoke fanciful imaginations in a young mind. That being said their have likely been other works of literature beneficial to humankind based on imagination and symbology of myth. Would love to have someone prove otherwise.
The scrolls that were burnt in the great Chicago fire are believed to be the ones that Joseph had translated.
The egyptologists were debunked due to the assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist. Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
I love all the scriptures.
of course you do.
These animations are great, however I'm disappointed in the church's lack of honesty and transparency. Even though my testimony isn't based on what's factually right/wrong, I do want to trust the church. Misleading info isn't a good look at all. Mistakes were made in the past. It happens bc we're human.
Be honest that is all.
What do you mean Libby Bravo? Why does this have a lack of honesty and transparency?
This is a deliberate effort to provide information, so I'm not sure what complaint you have.
I love how the LDS church is putting their stuff forward and addressing issues with the accounts such as the fragments not matching. Up until this point I always felt there were to many secrets. This is a good direction for the church.
I feel that it was less secrecy and more so lack of awareness by the members pertaining to it's origins. The Book of Abraham has a certain stigma surrounding it because of the fascimiles and other contents that are unfamiliar to traditional Christians, so many members unfortunately don't talk about or look into the Book of Abraham's origins. Nothing was ever hidden, just not enough members looked for it.
Thanks for your comment, Bo. We're glad you appreciate the videos. If you're interested, Elder Cook addressed concerns about the Church's openness with challenging topics in a 2018 Face to Face event. See his response at 14:18 in the link below: ruclips.net/video/kpLN6AomRQY/видео.html Take care!
Bo Lamb,
This information never was hidden, just in the past before the internet it wasn't easy or cheap getting hold of information.
As we see now, people do despitefully use technology to sow misinformation that can take us on detours, be careful with choosing sources.
@@danielmoore4024 I was told by more than one LDS seminary teacher to quit asking questions. Things have for sure been hidden or at least suppressed.
@@bolamb3500
If it was in the wrong lesson, off topic, I'm not surprised.
The teachers don't know everything either, they can't answer questions if they don't know the answer. That's what I see with a majority of members that they end up making excuses.
I've never been denied the right to ask questions, I always waited until we did a lesson on what my questions regard. Like what people claim to be Joseph committing bank fraud, I was going through Church history to see for myself and ask other members in Church history lessons to see it wasn't fraud at all.
What I do know always trumps what I don't know yet, I wait for additional knowledge to come then the blanks get filled in.
Why was it sold? Would it have been better to keep the records?
Different times back then. Many animals were killed to extinction only for their fur, and arts destroyed only because people didn't agree with their cultural values (like the Conquistadors). In a few decades, perhaps a century from now, people will look at our past and wonder why we polluted the environment so much. We had different concept of values back then.
I think the financial struggles of the Church would have justified selling it, but I think more importantly it's good that we don't have the whole record now. People would criticize it either way, and it's best for there to not be easy proof instead of faith.
He was betrayed by his apostles and then killed... Or should I say massacred... Then they had no true leadership or a prophet to lead then and they struggled for inspiration and people did stuff .. like sell the dang scrolls that would later prove the church is true 🤯
The same reason the copyright of the Book of Mormon was offered for sale. Financial difficulties.
@@jarsiibanez2855 There's not anything on this earth that could prove this church true
I absolutely love the teachings in the Book of Abraham. Jesus words flow in that scripture, it’s the Lords thesis on the spiritual nature of premortality and our continued testing and purpose in mortality. For me, God almighty is the master Creator, who provides meaning in nature for our benefit, all done out of love .
Thanks for sharing you thoughts and insight.
I am grateful for modern prophets. The heavens are not sealed.
What's the last time a real revelation was given?
@@robertaugust2610last thursday
Since its printing, the Book of Abraham has been a source of controversy. Numerous non-LDS Egyptologists, beginning in the mid-19th century, have heavily criticized Joseph Smith's translation and explanations of the facsimiles, unanimously concluding that his interpretations are inaccurate.
The premise of the criticism was faulty, though. Making bad conclusions based on incorrect connections and unknowns is not a good practice.
For those of you who say this video glosses over many of the issues regarding the Book of Abraham, my answer is, YES, it does. To review every aspect of what is contained in the Book of Abraham would require a much, much
longer video. This video simply highlights what the Book of Abraham is as well as giving a brief explanation about some of the controversies surrounding it.
I am not an expert on the Book of Abraham translation, nor am I an expert on all the different discussions, both pro and against the Book of Abraham. But what I do know is, having read the BofA many times I find nothing in it which I consider evil or corrupt. Just as with the Book of Mormon, there is a lot about the Book of Abraham we can not detail by using only scientific means. This does not, however, mean that Latter-day Saints who believe in the BofA and BofM are anti-science or that we are somehow using, as some say, mental gymnastics, to believe in these books. It simply means our confirmation of the truths of these books comes in large part from the Holy Spirit as recorded in Moroni 10:3-5 in the Book of Mormon.
I do not fault critics of the Church who are honest in their critiques of the BofA or BofM. I do not fault Egyptologists who have likewise found Joseph Smith’s translation of the BofA to be problematic. The reason being is that often, these people are use to finding evidence by what they can see, touch and read. It is like solving a puzzle for them and in most cases, there is nothing at all wrong with that. That is how physical science should be conducted. But when you don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle, using only scientific tools or scientific means to solve a problem can not fully answer all the questions. That is when the Holy Ghost can answer the questions which science can not. Jesus taught this to his disciples in John 14:26.
Just because I don’t have an exact blueprint of how the earth was created, from the mountains to the oceans doesn’t mean I should abandon my belief in God. Just because I don’t know exactly how stars and planets came into being doesn’t mean I should throw away my belief in a supreme creator and instead assume everything simply came about by the laws of chance.
Perhaps there are those who believe in their heart of hearts that spirituality doesn’t exist. As for me, I just believe differently, especially in a time like today, with social media, 24/7 news and an Internet flooded with opinions coming from every direction. There are so many voices saying, “I’m right and they’re wrong,” or “I have the truth and no one else does,” or “Don’t believe those people over there, believe me.” It is becoming more and more important to receive council and guidance from the one and only source of all truth, and that is the Holy Ghost; that still small voice which whispers truth to both our minds and our hearts.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and faith, @Clark Larsen. For those interested in learning more on this topic, see the Church's in-depth essay on the translation and historicity of the Book of Abraham here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
@@fescot349 You might be surprised at Biblical inconsistencies, but they're not a concern, because in time, we see reasons for why inconsistencies are present or appear to be. Would God offer a plan of salvation and a restoration with many questions? Absolutely! Questions are a vital part of what God desires for us. One of the greatest and most common messages in scripture is, "Ask, and ye shall receive." That sincere asking is crucial to us receiving revelation from God, though of course we must "ask in faith" as James directed. When we do, God rewards our faith with knowledge. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ rely on faith and revelation, as God desires of us--not only when joining the Church, but throughout our lives.
What evidence does the Book of Abraham show to support its own antiquity?
The stories and worldviews we find in the translated text of our Book of Abraham coincide nicely with what we find from ancient Abrahamic lore
The stories and worldviews we find in the translated text of our Book of Abraham coincide nicely with what we find from ancient Abrahamic lore. Joseph Smith demonstrated extensive knowledge of these areas, which he then integrated into a theologically rich whole. He could only have received this information through revelation, since there were no resources available to him on this subject at the time.
Evidence from non-Biblical sources
The book of Abraham is consistent with various details found in nonbiblical stories about Abraham that circulated in the ancient world around the time the papyri were likely created. In the book of Abraham, God teaches Abraham about the sun, the moon, and the stars. “I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt,” the Lord says, “that ye may declare all these words.” Ancient texts repeatedly refer to Abraham instructing the Egyptians in knowledge of the heavens. For example, Eupolemus, who lived under Egyptian rule in the second century B.C.E., wrote that Abraham taught astronomy and other sciences to the Egyptian priests. A third-century papyrus from an Egyptian temple library connects Abraham with an illustration similar to facsimile 1 in the book of Abraham.44 A later Egyptian text, discovered in the 20th century, tells how the Pharaoh tried to sacrifice Abraham, only to be foiled when Abraham was delivered by an angel. Later, according to this text, Abraham taught members of the Pharaoh’s court through astronomy.45 All these details are found in the book of Abraham.
Other details in the book of Abraham are found in ancient traditions located across the Near East. These include Terah, Abraham’s father, being an idolator; a famine striking Abraham’s homeland; Abraham’s familiarity with Egyptian idols; and Abraham’s being 62 years old when he left Haran, not 75 as the biblical account states. Some of these extrabiblical elements were available in apocryphal books or biblical commentaries in Joseph Smith’s lifetime, but others were confined to nonbiblical traditions inaccessible or unknown to 19th-century Americans.[1]
Ancient Human Sacrifice
The existence of human sacrifice in ancient Egypt has been variously debated and denied. While Egyptologists generally admit that the practice existed in the formative periods of Egyptian society, opinions among Egyptologists for later time periods range from claiming that "there is no certain evidence for the practice of human sacrifice . . . from the Old Kingdom onwards" to asserting that there is "indisputable evidence for the practice of human sacrifice in classical ancient Egypt." However difficult it may be for modern societies to accept that a practice we detest, such as human sacrifice, occurred in past civilizations we admire, further research and discoveries necessitate a reassessment of the possibility of this practice within Egyptian culture. While there is not a universally accepted definition of human sacrifice, for the purposes of this paper we will define human sacrifice as the slaying of a person in a ritual context.[2]
Parallels with Abrahamic and Egyptian traditions
There is evidence from antiquity-both in the Abrahamic tradition and in the Jewish recontextualization of Egyptian vignettes and dramas-which lend support to the claim that Joseph translated (albeit by unconventional means) the Book of Abraham from an authentic ancient source.
While Book of Abraham "translations" and "restorations" of the damaged vignettes do not seem to square with the translations of non-LDS Egyptologists, there are several instances when Joseph did get some of the details correct. This is no small thing considering that neither Joseph, nor any one to whom he had access, could translate Egyptian.
THE SONS OF HORUS
Facsimile 2 (shown between Chapters 3 and 4 of the Book of Abraham in the LDS Pearl of Great Price), is known as a hypocephalus ("under the head") and was a small disk-shaped object that was placed under the head of the deceased. The Egyptians "believed it would magically cause the head and body to be enveloped in flames or radiance, thus making the deceased divine."[3] In this drawing (or vignette), stand four mummy-like figures known-to Egyptologists-as the Sons of Horus. Their images were also on the canopic jars (the jars that stored the internal organs of the deceased) that we see under the lion couch in Joseph Smith's Facsimile 1. Joseph revealed that these four figures represented "this earth in its four quarters." According to modern Egyptologists, Joseph Smith is correct. The Sons of Horus "were the gods of the four quarters of the earth and later came to be regarded as presiding over the four cardinal points."[4]
ABRAHAMIC TRADITIONS
Years ago, Dr. Nibley pointed out that the critics neglect the ancient Near Eastern Abrahamic traditions that support the story found in the Book of Abraham.[5] Ancient Abrahamic lore and Jewish traditions preserved in ancient texts, show some surprising parallels to what we find in the text of the Book of Abraham. Some of these parallels imply that Joseph (who likely could not have had access to many of these traditions) actually restored authentic ancient Abrahamic traditions. Some of these parallels include early Jewish traditions about Abraham's life-details not found in the Bible.[6] Two such ancient documents that show some surprising parallels to our Book of Abraham are the Apocalypse of Abraham[7][8] and the Testament of Abraham[9] (the Apocalypse of Abraham dates to about the same time as the Book of Abraham papyri).
Astronomy
Other interesting parallels include ancient names and astronomy. Ancient Egyptian names, for example, that would have been unknown to Joseph Smith, are accurately represented in the Book of Abraham both phonetically as well as in meaning.[10] With regard to astronomy, we find that in Joseph Smith's day "heliocentricity" (as proposed by Copernicus and Newton) was the accepted astronomical view. Nineteenth-century people (including the most brilliant minds of the day) believed that everything revolved around the Sun-therefore the term "heliocentric" (Greek helios=sun + centered). (In the twentieth-first century we generally accept an Einsteinian view of the cosmos.) The Book of Abraham, however, clearly delineates a geocentric view of the universe-or a belief that the Earth (Greek geo) stood at the center of the universe, and all things moved around our planet.
According to ancient geocentric cosmologies and what we read in the Book of Abraham, the heavens (which is defined as the expanse above the earth-no celestial object is mentioned to exist below the earth) was composed of multiple layers or tiers-each tier higher than the previous. Therefore the Sun is in a higher tier than the moon, and the stars are in higher tiers still (compare Abraham 3:5, 9, 17).[8]:5 According to geocentric astronomy, celestial objects have longer time spans (or lengths of "reckoning") based upon their relative distance from the earth. "Thus, the length of reckoning of a planet is based on its revolution [time to orbit around the center, in this case the earth](and not rotation [time to spin on its axis, as the earth does every 24 hours])."[8]:8 The higher the celestial object, the greater its length of reckoning (compare Abraham 3:5). Likewise, in Abraham 3:8-9, we read that "there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still; And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob."
Ancient geocentric astronomers believed that the stars were "the outer-most celestial sphere, furthest from the earth and nearest to God."[8]:9 We find in the Book of Abraham that the star Kolob was the star nearest "the throne of God" (Abraham 3:9). In the ancient, yet recently discovered, Apocalypse of Abraham (which dates from about the same time period as the JSP), we find that God's throne is said to reside in the eighth firmament (the firmaments, being another term for the varying tiers in the heavens above the Earth).[8]:9
The Book of Abraham also reveals that those celestial objects that are highest above the earth, "govern" the objects below them (see Abraham 3:3, 9 and Facsimile 2, fig. 5). This sounds similar to the beliefs of those who accepted an ancient geocentric cosmology:
Throughout the ancient world the governing role of celestial bodies was conceived in similar terms. God sits on his throne in the highest heaven giving commands, which are passed down by angels through the various regions of heaven, with each region governing or commanding the regions beneath it.[8]:10
We find this governing order described in the Apocalypse of Abraham and other ancient sources. All of this makes sense only from an ancient geocentric perspective (such as that believed in Abraham's day) and makes no sense from a heliocentric perspective (which is what Joseph would have known in his day).
A different interesting parallel comes from Facsimile 1 (Abraham on the lion couch). According to Egyptologists, this is a typical Egyptian embalming scene and has nothing to do with Abraham or sacrifice. In fact, the critics assure us, Abraham is not a topic of discussion in Egyptian papyri, and there is no connection with Abraham and the embalming lion couch.
Recent discoveries, however, suggests that the Biblical Abraham does appear in some Egyptian papyri that date to the same period as the JSP. In one instance (thus far discovered) Abraham's name appears to have a connection to an Egyptian lion couch scene.[11]
These are awesome and a great resource for those who have not known where to find the information that has always been available but not easily accessible. Good stuff and I look forward to watching more and sharing with my family.
I love the Book of Abraham. It’s the easiest way to debunk Mormonism.
"Mormonism" isn't really anything. God continues to do great things through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Great video! I know lots of people like to poke at the Book of Abraham because it seems hard to believe. As a former skeptic and often struggling believer myself, there are extremely competent and faithful modern scholars like Hugh Nibley and John Gee who believed the Book of Abraham to be the real deal. If it’s good enough do them, it’s good enough for me.
If you want to learn more, in addition to the Church’s gospel topics essays, some other great resources are FAIR (formerly known as Fair Mormon) and Pearl of Great Price Central.
In the end, it’s important to ask the right questions. It’s easy to get stuck in the “how” and forget all about the “why”.
Always proud to be a Mormon❤️God with us❤️
Egyptologist prove it had nothing what so ever to do with Abraham
jim cherkas
The facsimiles they examined - correct.
The Book of Abraham is just as much the word of God as any other scripture handed down to us from our ancient ancestors of over 4,000 years ago. I know this is true because of the witness I received. I invite you to ask God if it is true, after you read it.
The egyptologists were debunked in 2014.
My favorite part of the video was the “not equals” symbol and the giant question mark. The only real truth provided in this video. Trying to be honest, but not TOO honest.
?
I've heard it described as the inoculation strategy. Slowly give out little bits of inconvenient truths so that when someone hears the whole story they are already somewhat familiar with it and just accept it without questioning their faith because they feel like they were already told about it.
@@johnyjohny5559 The egyptologists have been proven wrong.
It's simply being honest, that the fragments that remain don't correspond. That doesn't change the validity of the scripture.
The fragments that remain DO correspond. Joseph even matched them up for us in his Egyptian alphabet and translation document. On the subject, I recommend any RUclips videos by Dan Vogel.
I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, and that the Book of Abraham is a true translation. That is what I know. I feel the Holy Spirit, and I’m filled with light when I read the Book of Abraham.
I love the Book of Abraham! It’s true!
SURE it is
Now I know. ❤
Love the simple and clear explanation of a book of scripture I have felt the spirit of the Lord while reading.
Why is it so hard to find an audio version of the Pearl of Great Price?
When you discovered the Book of Abraham didn't match the papyrus, how did you determine it was a work of divine inspiration vs a work of creative fiction? How can one tell the difference?
There's only one way to determine if any work is inspired by God, and that is to ask Him about it. I think that most often, people start by seeking a witness from God of the truth of the Book of Mormon. Have you ever asked latter-day saints why we believe what we do?
Jay Britton Fisher - I'm interested in your " why". Why do you think the things you believe are true? What method did you use to make that determination?
@@kenhilker2507 I was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and taught from an early age. I became accustomed to scripture and the Holy Ghost while young, but when I left home for college I got a bit lazy with my religious practices. Eventually, I decided to serve as a missionary for the Church as I had been taught I should. While in training, my instructors spoke of the importance of the Holy Ghost and helping others to recognize its influence as it testifies of truth. I was somewhat troubled, because I didn't feel like I could do that. On a special day, I found that I could indeed, as God touched my heart like He had before. Over the years I have relied on the Spirit of God and received a witness of truth many times through the Spirit. I have also been privileged to see much of what really happens in the Church of Jesus Christ in many parts of the U.S. and other parts of the world.
How do I know that God has given true scripture? Because He testifies of it in a way that only He can. Scripture teaches of this, such as Jesus' words in John 14:26, where He said that "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you," and we gain some insight into the Holy Ghost as we read passages like Galatians 5:22-23, where we read that "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance". Granted, that description of what the Spirit of God produces in us is merely descriptive, and it is somewhat like the taste of salt in that it has to be experienced to be really understood. I also grant that there are other things which can produce joy and love or other positive feelings in us, but what I have felt from God when nothing else could have produced those feelings is undeniable. I've relied on revelation through the Holy Ghost as well, and been blessed by it. It's potentially an error of circular logic to accept a book simply because the book itself claims to be true, but true scripture is endorsed by God.
I don't think it's enough to espouse beliefs merely because we were raised with them. It seems that many people have held onto beliefs out of tradition or a lack of willingness or desire to actually investigate truth, but again, that's not good enough for me. I also don't rely solely on study. I've know many people in very humble circumstances who lacked either great mental capacity or resources to conduct significant study or both, and it doesn't make sense to me that God would only reveal Himself to a privileged group. Rather, I have seen God touch the minds and hearts of people who had no hope of being great scholars but who still desired truth.
I could elaborate on that early experience or others, but frankly, they're personal and somewhat sacred. If you show continued interest I can share more. Overall, I rely very much on the words of Moroni at the end of the Book of Mormon, when he promised the following: "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." God has witnessed to me of the truth of the Book of Mormon, and, in turn, the role of Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God witnesses of truth to me when living prophets speak.
I've also seen a lot of God's work in the Church. There is no organization comparable to it on the face of the Earth. I could discuss that also, but this is already a very long comment.
It's a daunting challenge to try to sum up a lifetime of personal experience that has led me to where I am today, but hopefully that gives you some insight and some desire to investigate the Church of Jesus Christ for yourself. You can do at least minimal investigation by visiting ComeUntoChrist.org or ChurchOfJesusChrist.org, and of course the most important act would be to study the very book that God provided for us in our day in order to accomplish His work--the Book of Mormon.
As to the Book of Abraham. I have learned some things about the history of its translation that help me to avoid making unwarranted assumptions. I've also learned that there are simply things we don't know yet; perhaps Joseph Smith would have explained more about it if he'd lived longer. However, the unanswered questions I have are heavily outweighed by the answers I do have, so I can look forward with hope.
Well, that's because
I thank God that the fragments of the papyrus still exist, otherwise I may never have started doubting the LDS church. Christ is GOD and the Bible is His word.
The existing fragments don't give us much insight about the Book of Abraham, and certainly shouldn't be a source of doubt in what God has revealed to us. Yes, Jesus Christ is God the Son, and yes, the writings of the Bible are inspired scripture. In addition, God has restored the Church of Jesus Christ in our time and is doing a great work through it for us.
Excellent information. This clarified some questions that I had on the Book of Abraham. Thanks so much.
Great video!
I'm interested to learn more about the Book of Enoch from the apocalyptic scripts
Now you’re talkin
Read it for yourself then..
I have that book in Greek, Hebrew and English. Is definitely an eye-opener for anybody who is studying early pre Bible History.
I haven't figured it all out but The Book of Enoch definitely seems to contain many Mormon doctrines not found in Christianity. The Council of Gods / Adam God Doctrine for a start. Even the fact that Nephi calls himself "large in stature" seems to somehow be connected to the Giants called Nephilim in The Book of Enoch. I forget who but one of Joseph Smith's contemporaries said the Urim and Thummum were like giant spectacles too big for an average size human.
Very informative, now i know❤️
Ocams Razor...the most plausible explanation is usually the simplest one. The word Abraham is never mentioned in the Book of Abraham and it is a common funerary text. The discovery of the Rosetta Stone a few years before the “ translation or inspiration,” proves that nothing in the Book actually matches any of the words or pictures of the scrolls. The rediscovery of the scrolls in then 60’s that were assumed lost in an earlier fire is a most inconvenient truth for the LDS church. The simplistic answer is that the BoA is just false.
"Usually" is an interesting term there. However, for people who receive a witness from God, the simplest explanation involves trusting Him.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 I definitely don't trust your understanding. You don't know my personal experiences and aren't qualified to tell me anything about them.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 You keep emphasizing feelings and my understanding as if feelings are all I've experienced and as if my understanding is somehow insufficient while yours is. I repeat that you don't know what I've experienced in my relationship with God. I don't need advice from someone who shows no understanding. You never needed to say anything in the first place, especially when you're coming to a video about someone other religion's beliefs just to tell them you think they're wrong. You are free to go about your life and choose the beliefs you desire. You are accomplishing nothing here.
Thats assuming abraham existed and scripture is historical. If not where did it come from? Were me. Inspired to write it down? And why if thats the case? The truth of religion is in how it teaches truth. The noahs flood story is highly symbolic and meaningful story and yet probably didnt happen historically.
Why the lack of subtitles?
How do we get RUclips to flag this and add disclaimer? It’s important to add disclaimer so people will know that facts debunk BoA.
The egyptologists were debunked in 2014. Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists were wrong.
My biggest issue is that Jospeh smith took the papyrus and deliberately lied about the contents held within them. People try to defend the book of Abraham by saying God had an intended translation for which we should internalize his message. This however fails the churches standard of always being honest and shows for being the one true church they constantly fail to be transparent with the body of the church. If the book of Abraham were true and Joseph smith had the power to translate then he more than certainly should’ve been able to translate what was actually on the papyrus, and to say “well God had an intended message” is a cop out and is dishonest. Not to mention Joseph Smith was very quick to flaunt the Papyrus and the kinderhook plates to prove he was a translator and a prophet but couldn’t show anyone except for 13 witnesses, of which most were excommunicated or voluntarily left the church, the Golden Plates. Even Martin Harris admitted he had never actually physically seen the plates, rather he witnessed them with his “spiritual eyes.”
There are several problems with what you've said. There hasn't been any lying or dishonesty from Joseph Smith or current Church leaders. What we have is some acknowledgement of unknowns, and unknowns are a normal thing in most endeavors, but especially historic and archaeological efforts. The Kinderhook Plates were fake; they were enough to catch Joseph Smith's attention at first, but you will notice that there is no book of scripture studied by Latter-day Saints that came from them. Joseph Smith did show the gold plates to a number of people, including a few beyond those called as public witnesses. Many of them held the plates in their hands, and being granted additional spiritual insight doesn't preclude that. Yes, many of the witnesses faced trials of faith and left the Church--though some returned--but none of them ever denied their accounts of the gold plates. Their testimony remains powerful. Returning to the Book of Abraham, we simply don't have all that Joseph Smith possessed, and we don't know everything about the translation process or the relationship between the Book of Abraham and the remaining papyrus fragments. That's okay by me, though. I've lived with unknowns for a long time--not just in religion, but in every part of life. In some cases, I've learned things that helped me understand truth from God, and sometimes answers came years after I first found the questions. That's okay. I have ample reason to carry on in faith, and I would encourage you and everyone else to do the same.
He later explained that his spiritual eyes were a metaphore and he saw them with his literal eyes too. And he attempted a translation with the kinderhook plates and never published it since he wasnt confident in the paragraph he had attempted. On top of that, if he found hold plates with inscriptions he supposedly invented, wouldnt he be suspicious someone hid them to trip him up? Which was essentially what happened.
Awesome Video making✌.Praise the Lord
This video implies there is no link between the book of Abraham and the characters still visible on the fragments. The (rigorously detailed) notes of JS and associates suggest otherwise. There is a faithful way to see that, though some feel it requires making special affordances.
@ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
If you're willing to acknowledge at 1:51 that Joseph Smith believed he had the literal, original writings of Abraham in his possession, then you have to admit that he DID attempt to engage in a translation in the typical sense of the word, and he himself MEANT translation in the typical sense of the word whenever he spoke about translating the BoA.
Now, if you're going to say that the BoA could still have come through revelation despite a fraudulent exercise in translation, then that's your god's fault for allowing Joseph Smith and his colleagues to remain deceived in what they were doing, which said belief carried on throughout the decades well into the late 20th century. And God is responsible for anyone who left the church over this. He has proven himself untrustworthy. He can blame no one for leaving the church because he allowed the BoA to come about through the appearance of fraud. So no one could tell the difference, nor should they expect to be able to.
Assuming fraud is faulty. It's clear that Joseph Smith and others with him attempted to translate Egyptian, much like others of their era who didn't have access to the knowledge provided by the Rosetta Stone, and that they had comparable success--which is to say that they didn't succeed. The "alphabet" they attempted to produce wasn't accurate. What is not clear is how Joseph Smith proceeded from there. Perhaps he would have explained more about it later in his life if he hadn't been killed.
People are always free to turn away from the Church, and that is their decision and responsibility. God is responsible for granting us a mortal life that requires faith, as part of His Plan of Salvation, because He knows that faith is a crucial principle for our growth. We have to expect to often have questions that aren't answered immediately. When we come across something we don't understand, we have the option of exercising faith and being blessed for it, or rejecting faith. Faith isn't a blind acceptance, and it doesn't mean we don't come to knowledge, because God absolutely does reward faith with knowledge, but when some answers to questions take a long time to find, He gives us reassurance and helps us to be patient in the meanwhile. The most important thing we can do when we want to know if a written work is true scripture is ask God Himself in faith that He will answer. When we ask in faith and He answers, that's really all we need.
I believe
Very thoughtful explanation, thank you!
You're welcome. Thanks for tuning in!
This is an excellent video! There were things shared that I didn't know. Often with topics like this, at least for myself, it helps to bring it back to the question, "Is Joseph Smith a prophet?" My personal witness is that he is a prophet! As a result of this, it doesn't necessarily matter how he got the revelation. He's a revelator and can receive that message and any message from heaven!
With all due respect, how do you answer the question "is Joseph Smith a prophet?" without considering evidence like the book of Abraham? Coming to a conclusion before you research is a great way to come to the wrong conclusion.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and witness of Joseph Smith!
@@PostScript9223 Coming to an incorrect conclusion after doing faulty research is potentially a bigger problem. Many people receive a witness from God about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints before becoming familiar with the Pearl of Great Price, and there's nothing wrong with that.
It seems that Smith was taking advantage of an opportunity. Occam's Razor.
It seems he was taking advantage of an opportunity to provide scripture.
I have seen the Abraham scrolls in the exhibition, which went round the world And was in Hyde Park Chapel, UK London, England about the year of Diana princess of Wales memorial in Hyde Park where I went there as well at the same time so we talking about 2010
Wonderful! Love this video and explanation 👏🏻👏🏻
Eh, don't forget the truth of the plan of salvation. Satan will do everything with our minds, actions and of others with/through/and wordily knowledge to simply just cause doubt or disprove the Lord. If we lose faith and stop progressing, he's won for the moment.
In the end, the book of Abraham acknowledges the truth of Christ and God. It in no way is contrary and I see that as 'good enough' till God reveals more answers. Faith is good enough ;)
Wow
These videos are great. Very helpful for both new and current members
Thank you!
This video is so helpful. Thank you!
Our use of this Book of Abraham had prompted the scholar Hugh Nibley to state that we would all be held accountable. This video helps.
Doesn't this video pretty bluntly state that Hugh Nibley was wrong?
@@quemaspana Wrong about what? Do you have any particular statement from Nibley in mind?
Por favor , hagan estos videos en español también.
I still don’t know
Ask God.
While the Book of Abraham is speculative, the Book of Mormon is clearly true, even when Christians who have read it are asked about it. How Joseph Smith, who is a "false prophet", pulled a bunny out of a hat that was a true bunny, is a mystery that is not yet solved by evangelicals. Some argue that demons helped him make a true demonic book, but then why does the book preach the true gospel (and repentance!)? It's interesting. If Joseph Smith is true because of the Book of Mormon, then the Book of Abraham must be considered as a true book too, as it came from the prophet who translated the true Book of Mormon. To make matters even more complicated, unlike the Quran, the Book of Mormon contains no mistakes/errors compared to Christian doctrines. If anyone can find even a single false verse or even some half truths in the Book of Mormon, please let me know, but you probably will not be able to. I know a guy that is 80 years old and talks to God in English that is not a Mormon who has read it twice and has found no errors in it.
P.S. Obviously Joseph Smith wasn't a con-man, as we have millions of revelations in favor of him (South Park was wrong, whoops!). The revelations themselves don't make him true at all, but they do make him powerful; the book of Mormon on its own doesn't make him powerful at all, but it does make him true. Using logic, as well as my testimony of revelation/dreams/visions/etc in favor of Joseph, it's very unlikely he is a false prophet of God... he is most likely a True Prophet of God
Hope this helps
George Tucker it summarizes is at 4:08
I can't repeat this enough, people confuse inspiration with non-fiction, there is a huge difference. I can be inspired by so many things, doesn't nessesarily mean that they ever existed or were true.
@@sochimauzonwanne7592 "Lies come later"...does that mean that because the New Testament came after the Old, you disbelieve it? Or should people reject everything after the books of Moses, because they came later? Prophets continue to reveal great things throughout history, and we shouldn't be surprised by that. As to why the Nephites associated dark skin with the curse on the Lamanites, it's because it's an obvious visible indication. I believe that Laman and Lemuel mingled with other peoples who were on the continent, and that those other people happened to have darker skin that they passed on to their children. Nephi's life had been threatened, and the Lamanites came to fight the Nephites in open warfare shortly afterward. With modern sensibilities it's easy to say, "Well, you shouldn't judge people by their skin color", and it's great that we have better understanding on that matter these days, but the Nephites lives were at stake. Most of the curse referred to the way that the Lamanites lived, and it makes a lot of sense that those who follow God's word are blessed and those who don't are cursed. May I ask you a very important question? I know why I accept the Bible as the word of God, but why do you? Why do you believe it is true scripture?
Now I know! Thank u for this simple and wonderful video. 😊
and on the same day, I went to see the exhibit of the Rosetta Stone in London Museum
Thank you so much for creating this type of content. I love learning about the little ways God communicates with us.
Come to the true god
@@mr.juannito3238 She is evidently already doing that! :)
Chandler played Joseph by telling him the scroll came from the time of Abraham, they didn't. Joseph Smith's translation was proven to be nonsense...
I really do believe I know the reason why it is called “The Pearl of Great Price”. But, it would be nice if you added how it did get the beautiful title “Pearl Of Great Price “. Perhaps, you should do videos on how all of our standard works got their names, even the Book of Mormon?
Deanna Walsh I agree!
Thanks for sharing your feedback, Deanna!
What's the reason? Why do you think it's called that?
Pearl oGP= the price (value?) of wisdom (knowledge ?) is a gift of great value. Mormon, the last prophet in BoM gathered many other documents written by the nephite peoples. Mormon compiled acts of people and events from those other ancient documents, and wrote the history/stories/events in and onto other golden plates that he had made, and bound them together as an abbreviation, like a synopsis, of the greater documentation. Mormon gave the title The Book of Mormon because he "wrote" his own book of the native nephite (not amerinds) documents.
for example: Nephi wrote his two books, the "smaller" plates and the "larger" plates which contained different information. Mormon gathered Nephi's and other's plates and selected information/stories, condensed them (like the reader's digest).
the plates that Joseph translated, not word by word, but by the Holy Ghost providing an "express ... sense of (words or text) in another language" were the golden plates that Mormon had made with his condensed version of the nephite people and history.
did i do a fair job of explaining ?
I enjoy the Pearl of Great Price maybe more than the almighty Book of Mormon because is deep and shows the most human side of God himself, it really takes your imagination to the prehistoric time to the sands of Egypt and interestingly explain the origins of the Egyptians a thing that most scholars wouldn't know even today!, also explains the importance of the holy priesthood to administer the gospel, maybe the papyrus itself does not match with the actual book, maybe Joseph was a bit high but really who cares, this can only worry the average member of the LDS church whom sadly has not live enough to experience spiritual emotions that denies logic, or maybe hasn't seen the effects of the Holy Priesthood bring down from the ancient fathers till now, my advice for you if your faith is week , live a little, share the gospel, suffer for Christ a little, I'm not asking you to serve a mission like I did and many others but you can't based your whole life only by logic.
So glad to see the Church leaders address this issue in such a manner.
I wonder how many different scrolls Joseph had? Imagine an alien civilization finding 10 random books from our library in ruins, and asking them to translate them. How many different topics would they find? How hard would it be to figure out the topics of all 10 books from just a few pages from only one of the books?
this is wonderfully done