After 60k miles of phantom breaking my wife and I have new muscle memory, she shouts "this car is trying to kill us" and I always accelerate when the car brakes, I'm not sure what is more dangerous or limiting to my lifespan. My #1 Tesla update would be do have dumb cruise control.
I have muscle memory to press accelerator when passing a truck, overtaking a bicycle or even pedestrian, cause I know Tesla is going to break. It often starts breaking split second before my foot lands on the pedal, so I know my predictions are accurate :)
@@martinweston8147 if it makes you feel better, I have had adaptive cruise control in a rental prius in the US almost kill me. I was in adaptive cruise control mode set to 70 mph, in traffic doing 50 mph, on whatever the freeway north of San Francisco is. This has been working well until then: when a gap developed I would speed up except suddenly it started accelerating even though there was a car not far in front - because it had just gone over the rise of a hill. The car in front was no longer visible so the previous US decided to bump up the speed by 20 mph even though the car was just as close as it had been before. Put differently: we software developers can always screw up.
Happy I sold my 3 and got a Polestar 2. None of the phantom braking. Real rain sensor. Proper stalks. Can turn off regen. Better headlights. Semi auto trailer hook. No more Tesla Service centers!!
Because we don't know what is best for us? Or for Tesla? Or for the environment? Or for the production/price/complexity? 😅 And we are conservative in our ways, so hardly anybody would want to change anything if it was not forced upon us?
@@jsjs6751Or how about people have common sense, and will decide what is best? The cost and complexity can be applied to everything then: just remove the rear doors, and have passengers enter through only the front! Let’s not have two head lights, but one single center headlight! Your response is ridiculous.
I completely agree with your statement. Tesla has the best EV base and software integration off all the EVs we drove. They could just build the best cars in the market but decided to shoot them selfs in the foot with the forced innovation. The Model Y with the old stocks and the new look plus highland ride quality would be hard to beat. And if they dont want to use sonic sensores for parking, they need a camera that can see the front. Those are so obvious improvements that I can't wrap my head around why they dont dont do it.
Thats miss-guided on all fronts. Build quality is poor, they hand over their cars with faults from new. The software does all that Bjorn and still phantom breaks which is dangerous my model 3 from 2019 did this a lot also for no reason. Almost rear ended once because of it. Compared to my KIA Niro EV which has better self driving software which does not brake unnecessarily and guess what also has hardware and software integration on the things necessary to give you a reliable experience. Oh and the battery degradation is far far less and better range than a Tesla so no Tesla are not in front anymore at all.
@De4dCert I would disagree with the build quality if you consider the price. I can only speak for Germany hear and even a niro was 6k more expensive then a model Y. The niro ev was a very close second for us and I completely agree in terms of the self driving. If tesla would use a similar telemetry system with radar sensors, they might get a better result. But in terms of EV capabilities the niro is 5 years old. 80kw fast charging and a consumption of 15-16kw/h for that size of a car can't compete with a model Y SR. And the infotainment system of the niro looks nice and feels like from 2010. It is way easier for tesla though to improve on the things you criticized in my opinion, compared to what other manufacturers have to do in term of making their cars more efficient. The id7 tourer is a brilliant car and even beats the model Y in some categories, but it's almost double the price in a comparable spec. Edit: we usually drive 100-150km per day 90% of that on the autobahn. So highway consumption is what I'm referring to. And the model y beats the smaller and lighter niro on the highway.
@@Bimmer_i4_M50 Stuff like a phone as a key, how Quick and reliable the App works, how easy it is to use the satnav, the car will redirect you on long journeys to less used superchargers to make sure everyone can charge without delay. I did not test the Kia App to be fair, only the MG and Audi app and bothe were not on the same level.
@@Korgaro Let me address my view on your comments. The build quality and finish of a KIA imo is better and is why they can offer a 7 year bumper to bumper warranty. Tesla cant offer more than 4 years or they would be going out of business fixing their cars. The Niro EV can actually achieve their rated miles with varied driving, this is something most EV drivers are surprised with them using one and is my experience too. Compared to a model 3 which never achieved its rated miles even in summer. Telsa took a step back when removing radar which makes Bjorns issues worse here. 80kw charging is not 5 years old when you have a charging curve that stays at a higher rate for longer between 10% and 80% it still only means a stop of 35 mins on long distance trips. Degradation on a Kia is far less at 100,000 miles. Actually I get about 3 miles a KWH in the winter and 4.5 miles a kwh in the summer. That is better than my experience owning a Tesla model 3. I think the Niro EV is more efficient than a Tesla model 3 on average in varied conditions. Tesla only at higher temperatures. Infotainment? I have something called as Dash display right in front of me with all the information I need ands speed I am doing oh and even sat NAV. I dont have to behave like a chameleon while driving to check what speed I am doing or why phantom breaking kicked in for no reason. I have actual practical buttons for what I need to adjust things or total voice command over them. Most people do not like a touch screen or lack of stalks. I think the Tesla only beats the Niro on consumption during the summer months. Lastly Tesla can brag all day about its software updates etc. KIA only release things when they are tested and actually work. All the evidence of telling the public a load of crap about how advanced Teslas vision is out in the real world is right here in Bjorn’s video. Instead driving my KIA Niro EV I have features that all work reliably and don’t over promise in what they really can do. Maybe they will one day. But I will enjoy my uninterrupted driving for far longer than Tesla owners waiting years for a fix to all that was demonstrated today. I was a Tesla owner I just work up to what makes a good car as an overall package. At this rate KIA might have full self driving before Tesla but gave their entire customer base a smoother and safer route to it.
If you mean it changes the setting of the wipers to auto when you engage autopilot then this is by design, as the camera at the top of the windscreen needs to be clear to allow the vision system to work. I do agree the wipers are absolutely awful though, my 2016 golf had better auto wipers.
When its raining cats and dogs the auto vipers wont engage. The second I enter a tunnel the wipers engage on turbo. Similar with auto high beam. Driving at night and enter a dark tunnel. Turns of high beam.
I have the phantom vipers sometimes on very sunny days, with trees casting shadows on the road. Usually it's ok, but it's nice it can now be set to manual while the car is on auto. It also enables the wipers if they where on when the car was parked several days ago, which is pointless.
Lack of stalks definitely is the one that pushes us back. Not everyone has the luxury of owning a car for each household members, parking are limited where we live so we share cars at home. So for example I personally may get used to the indicator buttons but not my family members, not the kids who will get their license sharing the car, not the wife who drive it ocassionally, not my siblings who come for a short visit. I think it may have contributed to the low sales numbers. Here in Australia you need to indicate to exit by law unless going straight, how the heck could I indicate to exit when the left button could be on the right and heck the button may not even be at the right place. The new Model 3 is only good for those idiots who never use their indicator at the roundabout or never at all. They would love it
What bothers me the most is that they didn't put the LH indicator on the left side of the steering wheel and the RH indicator on the right At least that would have made sense, not stacked above one another when you're busy turning the wheel.
@MyMednas makes more sense then next to each other still. Much like how Ferrari do their indicators, especially if you're hands aren't leaving the wheel given Tesla has quite a tight steering rack with lock to lock in a couple of turns. I'd rather stalks everyday just pointing out the utter stupidity of it.
@@Stewiedude1 It certainly would have made more sense to do it the way you suggest, but it would still be infuriating in a roundabout when the steering wheel is upside down (the arrows are inverted).
@@petergorton9848 I have installed the Enhance Auto Commander unit that allows you to cancel the auto wipers engaging with autopilot. It has stopped the dry wipes issue, and the S3XY knob gives some better control. It is a second-rate workaround, but it has made the car bearable.
I think many of these issues are due to the cars being optimised for US roads, making them less usable here in Europe. Our roads are narrower and we have many more roundabouts
@@V10PDTDIfor the best. Waymo only do a few cities they know perfectly. I do gave a friend near San Francisco whose road seems to be a test area for their overnight software updates: every morning one will come in, do the exact same manoeuvres as the day before and then repeat this every morning. If Waymo got their previous day's code wrong- they'll be the ones to find out as a robotaxi drives into their house
"optimised for US roads" I think you're correct. Does the Model Y suffer the same defect? European Model Ys are made in Germany so it would be stupid to make 'US optimised' cars there. Oh dear... from google results it seems that the Model Y also phantom brakes:
Don't forget the fact that Tesla should have so much data on the Norwegian roads, and how they look/their speed limits, but STILL they can't deliver a better experience for their drivers.
They don't even need to edit the data himself. Simply set up a website that allows (exclusively) Tesla drivers to interactively maintain a map with speed limits.
As a Tesla Model 3 Highland owner, I do not experience the attention alarm, but the phantom breaking is a serious issue, just as Bjørn says. It happens when you use cruise control and autopilot. It is so disturbing that you can only use cruise control and autopilot on the highway where the road is physically separated. According to Elon on X, we will get a major improvement in these systems in the first quarter of 2025... I really hope that this is the case. Also, I cannot adjust the regenerative braking. I thought I could but I cannot get use to a heavy foot regenerative breaking in the highland. I absolutely hate that I cannot adjust the regenerative braking.
He gets the attention alarm cause he looks at the screen or somewhere else when activating the system. On activation you need to look on the road or it will directly warn you :D
Renault has the best disabling of safetysystems!!! You program it once how you like it, and then push a button twice when you start your drive and everything you want is disabled!! SOOOO nice!!!
This will most likely be removed. EU have/are making laws that forces the manufacturers to make it more annoying to disable safety features. For instance, it needs to be "at least 2 clicks to change the distance to the car before you in cruise control". Some things will probably not even be possible to disable. In my older EV I can disable the AVAS sound, but I think it's not possible by law in newer cars now.
I have the new Renault Scenic and it is the best balance of EV and modern vehicle Tech ... complete with stalks (maybe one too many) buttons plus mirror and window buttons on the door armrest
Great - what would be even better was if they had and would use their lobbying power to prevent such laws from passing instead of voting against innovation and customers by lobbying for import taxes of Chinese cars...
The speed warning needs to be disabled for every drive, that's an EU regulation for all new cars sold in the EU market. Not much Tesla can do about that.
Completely agree with your criticism, I was almost going to buy a Tesla model 3 but after a test drive which had no stalks etc I decided against it, I know Tesla are great but Tesla has pushed it to the extreme by removing all basic parts in the car and in some part making it less safe to drive the car, I can't imagine trying to figure out where the turn signal buttons are on the steering while turning in a complicated roundabout
I don’t use autopilot or cruise control in my Tesla. My wife has neck issues and simply can’t deal with phantom braking. It hits so hard at lower speeds that either we deal with the stress of driving or the stress of constantly waiting for a phantom brake that may or may not come. The stress of driving is way less, so we just don’t use it at all. I feel like this defeats the whole point of all the safety precautions if it causes customers to simply not use the feature.
Nice to hear that phantom braking is still no better. I sold my model 3 in 2021 and swapped to an enyaq - better autopilot, more space and no haptic buttons. Tesla kept telling me that their software was in beta and would soon improve. Sounds like they're still working on it. The build quality and monthly visits to the SC for repairs were the deal breaker for me. Can't say I miss any of it which is a shame as I had expected so much better.
Totally agree! You can’t really use autopilot anymore on smaller roads in Sweden. Phantom brake is insane! The nagging is much worse than before. I stopped use autopilot after a few weeks with my Highland. And agree with the rest as well.
I own a Tesla Model 3 Long Range 2019 model which has stalks and ultrasonic sensors. I love it even though its noisy at highway speeds and the suspension is hard. I cannot see myself buying a Tesla again after the removal of stalks and ultrasonic sensors.
I’d happily delete the new LCD display for rear passengers to get my stalks and ultrasonic sensors back. Stupid cost cutting only to add useless features
Completely agree, lack of stalks is silly, unnecessary small saving, unsafe on roundabouts, unsafe while in need to quickly engage or disengage AP. So handy and safe to be able to control cruise speed and distance to the followed car using a stalk without taking eyes off the road. That's one of the reasons for buying 2017 car, actually in Norway :) It feels more like a car, have stalks, have a glassroof I can open ! That should still be an option in top-of-the-range models! It has an old enhanced AP without FSD and still has a front Lidar, which is reassuring me that the car will not phantom brake too often. Still does it on narrow winding hilly roads when in AP but very very rarely and it doesn't shout on me when I drive the car, it never let me down even during the worst driving conditions! It was actually impressive to watch it plowing through the storm in the night, rain was so heavy that I couldn't see the road yet AP handled it like a boss with motorway speeds! I really don't think that cameras-only-based AP would perform that good. Lack of dash, even the simplest one like in BMW i3 or HUD instead is another silly downgrade. All that to save a few dollars and to be able to give big discounts from time to time when stock price requires a push?.... I'm still a fan of the brand but please, give your customers important options, at least in more expensive models. As nice feature as the FSD is, not everyone is up for FSD-only future and I honestly don't think that people who actually like to drive their cars will let that ever happen. Would you trust it 100% in the current development stage? When it doesn't even slow down on speed ramps, occasionally phantom brakes while passing under bridges recognizing shadow as an obstacle, it doesn't see broken tree branches on the road and so on...
So, let me get this straight. Tesla cars are still unable to get the speed limits right, they phantom break and they even do it *after* the fact. And yet, some people still claim that Tesla can deliver an unsupervised "self-driving" car soon?
@@dr2okevin Is the US version in fact better? It may have more features. But is it actually safer in the very same situations? Did the speed sign recognition improve? Is the phantom braking fixed? And are there no other, new problems? I have read some reviews from people using Tesla's autopilot in the US. Some of them claim that they stopped using it because it was too dangerous. It accelerates hard, it breaks hard. It takes unsafe turns. And so on. Of course, I cannot objectively assess whether that is generally true or not. But the mere fact that there are people complaining about it suggests that it might not be an isolated problem.
The US Version has complete different software, the EU version is some old handwritten code which controls the behavior.. Since it was never changed it behaves the same since 4 years obviously. The US Version uses end to end neural networks, you can't compare that at all. I don't care to much about unsupervised, I would be happy if we even get the supervised version in Europe...
Tesla vision is all you have to say. it can't detect the edge of the road unless in perfect white-lined condition, gets confused by two shades of grey bitumen, doesn't realise that when the line animation is skipping back and forward for the centre line or road edge 60 times a minute it means the sensor algorithm isn't coping but it alarms anyway (that conservative over caution). Can't tell the difference between a dark shadow across the road shadow and a ditch so brakes, can't tell that a cyclist coming around a corner straight ahead at the moment but which is on the other lane side of the road as normal just looks like a collision path, but brakes anyway. Remember that radar stuff that Elon says is just stupid, well it detects objects and gaps. AI has to produce a 3d representation not a flat picture to operate intelligently. It is early days but if the boss says it is fantastic, to sell cars, then so be it. Yes it still has trouble with speed limit signs. Lane departure produces 99.99% false alarms and has to be turned off every time the car starts, and those pop up hazard warnings are positioned to maximize distraction by being as low on the screen as possible, from viewing the road scene ahead in an absolutely perverse manner. Your rant is 100% justified.
Said this under several Tesla vids: my current 2023 model Y is the last Tesla I´ll be buying. Why? Stalks and gear lever. Elmo becoming a super villan doesn´t help either...
@@stighaaland5357 Its not about to get used to it. It is total bullshit, you cant use them on twisty roads, everytime you steer too much you cant press the buttons. Also in roundabouts. Sure, on a Highway it is not a problem. But why create this issues? makes no sense, its bullshit, thats it.
I am close to make my next car choice, and my numerous test drives make me lean towards a Model 3 LR, but you are summarizing and illustrating well all the cons I read on the web and from owners I met. I have never been so uncertain about my car choice than in 2024.
It is always possible to find negative sides in any product. Autopilot works ok on motorways, not on two lane roads and Tesla does not recommend it either. I am aware of the negative points mentioned here and consider them to be of very little importance. I am sure you will be very pleased with any new Tesla you buy. I just bought a model 3 in September - perfect. Also own a model 3 from June 23 - just as pleased
Test drive other cars then. If you can live with any of them then you have a choice...otherwise you have no choice. I mean I wouldn't be sticking another dollar in the dark lord's already overflowing wallet but if that doesn't bother you then hesitation is only useful if there's some other thing to choose.
The things are annoying but you get used to it. The range , comfort , drive and supercharging compensate for these issues. Not sure why Tesla can’t fix phantom braking.
@Danne89 I know, they are getting there. But how many is cheaper to buy and cheaper in use than Model 3 or Y? I don't know - you tell me? Also, remember, the Tesla grin has been making wrinkles in big boys' faces since 2012-ish. 😊
Phantom braking really gets on my nerves in my MY. I absolutely hate it. Also the hard brakes before normal curves that can easily be done at speed limit.
Thanks for the longer video! To be honest, I got anxiety from watching what the car was doing in response to normal road traffic, and I wasn’t even driving! It’s the software that’s really bad, and a company philosophy that’s becoming arrogant in not listening to feedback.
As a former Tesla owner (now SQ6), I am totally with about the lack of stokes. For me it is an absolute no 22:25 go. I was considering a model 3 again as a second car, but as long as they lack stokes it won’t happen. By the way, the fantom breaks are not just a pain in the a… they are DANGEROUS !
How many phantom brake incidents happened just in this one hour of driving? Like 10 or something? I stopped counting at some point. The "oncoming truck in a corner" case seems to be highly reproducible. How anybody can consider this usable or safe is beyond me.
I was considering a model 3 for my next car, and now the long range rwd has arrived, I'm quite tempted. However, I just don't want what I consider is a compromised car. Wipers, indicators, lack of buttons, stupid interior led lights etc. Why put a screen in the back for my dog and nothing centrally for me, the driver???!!! Anyway, there are some good options available now and the near future, so it's no loss for me.
So far, my passengers experience in the 24 MYLR has been horrible. The autopilot just does weird unexpected stuff all around. It's suddenly stops, it suddenly moves left or right where there's a merge from right lane (I guess tries to center suddenly when a merge starts with 2 lane's width supposed to cover two cars! but autopilot just sudden shifts in the middle of it!), and sometimes suddenly outright disengages telling me to pay attention to the road! while I am obviously, and poor passengers who're thrown left and right and feel nauseated. Also I still don't understand how speed adjustments work, It seems to me after 4000km, that when there's a lower speed limit, like half the time, after a few minutes, it auto adjusts the speed down. but when there's an increase, it just 100% ignore it and you have to manually intervene. I've driven many times with an 82kmph speed into the Operatunnel under Oslo (70kmph speed limit), cause my Autopilot didn't adapt, not sure if Elon pays for the potential fines or not. Overall really bad experience, I wish I did more of a test drive before getting my "soon-to-be-deprecated" model y.
Thanks Bjorn, your comments are my comments. I own a 2019 M3 and I am keeping it until they get parking sensors and stalks back. Ideally a passive cruise control would also be a huge improvement, as it actually was in the beginning of owning before they changed to default active one
same issue on the A1 in Germany coming from Trier to Ramstein between "Raststätte Hochwald West and Intersection Hermeskeil". Since 3-4 Years same trottling to 60 on Autobahn. There is no speed limit. So it throttles down from 140 to 60
Interesting video. I just can’t stand bad driving assist features. I would not buy a car that behaved like this. Annoying beeps and boops whenever the road turns or there’s oncoming traffic. What a bad joke. I’m so happy with my C40. I tried quite many EVs before deciding. When I finally found out about it, through this channel, I started understanding this was probably my car. It’s so simple yet exactly what I want and need from a car.
i love tesla, but i'll never buy one due to lack of stalks ( i also prefer physical climate buttons) very sad direction they're taking. Toyota has a cruise control stalk too, it's my favorite feature for sure.
Absolutely. Had two Tesla’s and the greatness turned into irritation. The quality isn’t bad. But the autopilot and software have consistently become worse. Phantom braking was a thing in several updates of my S100D. Finally they fixed it. But then they disabled the radar and relied solely on camera’s, which reduced the functionality a lot. But I’ve always loved that car in the 5,5y I drove that. The MYPerf not so much. Had it for 5 months and it irritated me so much: the excellent wipers didn’t stop wiping, even during bone dry sunny weather it would keep wiping. 😱 Enhanced Autopilot didn’t come with autopark: “it will be added later”. Drove it for 5m and it was never activated. 💸. The interior camera activation was so annoying I also blocked it. And yes they re-introduced phantom braking again after over a year of fixing it! 🤦🏻♂️ But the general autopilot experience went downhill soooo fast. Yuck. Now that I’m considering my next EV, Tesla is no longer on it. I hate their Ferrari-esque lack of stalks. I have several cars and having to adapt to no stalks while all others have stalks, I’m not looking forward to that. I don’t want to adapt to that. Exit Tesla.
We drove around Iceland in a Tesla model Y 2023 this summer. The car is nice but the phantom breaking is not. About 15 times it breaked in 14 days. Especially when traffic comes from the left.
Drove a Model Y for 3 months before I got my Scenic. It bugged the hell out of me which is a shame because the ride itself is good. To a point where it suddenly started complaining about an empty child seat not having the safety belt plugged in. So I had to keep the belt plugged in all the time. I'm very happy with the Scenic because it just helps me drive without annoying me and the ACC is very good. Also works like a charm in traffic jams where it brakes and accelerates much more gentle than the Tesla. Also it has a button to disable all the annoyances in a single press and the automatic wipers just work, unlike Tesla's which don't work at all. Totally agree with the autopilot strike bull** as well. I mean they have Joe mode, what about a feature to turn off mommy mode?
I cannot agree more, Bjorn and greetings from Trondheim! Luckily the speed warning can be disabled permanently at least on my 2021, Intel equipped system. But here is my problem list from TM3P 2021 with FSD (Fremont): - does not continue the Spotify/RUclipsMusic song, because network error (related to deep sleep, I think) - does not continue the song, if I played music from an USB-dongle (except if you leave the car in continuous Sentry mode.) - voice commands are changing and disappearing often after updates (for instance: USB) - the temperature displaying is super inaccurate after preconditioning (even -7 Celius. Tesla could not fix it even after 3 attempts. This is only a sw. compensation thing) - lane keep assist is super annoying also when you try to avoid pat holes (yes, it can be disabled, but it comes back after leaving the car) IT WORTH ANYTHING FOR ME IF SOMEBODY CAN HELP ME TO DISABLE THIS PERMANENTLY - phantom braking (as Bjorn mentioned) IT WORTH ANYTHING FOR ME IF SOMEBODY CAN HELP ME TO DISABLE THIS PERMANENTLY - front passenger door has to be open and closed even if nobody used that before or after a ride, because it stays the car idle and not lock (cable harness swap did not help. I need special attention on this) - 3 direction indicator blink is not enough for a stalk poke (it can be adjusted in a Kia to 5 or even 7 blinks) when I want to change the lane or take a turn - handle of the door freezes even after 20 min. preconditioning in winter time - the paint is knocked off in the wheel arch and in general behind the wheels just after 50k km (even with Multi red) - the car has data SIM card or eSIM, but I need to add the car to a WiFi network to get/download the updates (even I a Premium Connectivity subscriber). What does not download it itself on the data SIM? - Bluetooth door opening, closing is sucks with a smartphone (works 40 of 100%) - Tesla deletes the (1-2 years) old complains, issues in the service history panel in your phone app (even the pdf invoices) - Tesla will refuse to tell you the history past of your car if you are a 2nd hand owner, because privacy rights (other words, I do not have right to know the problems, crashes, issues what happened in the past, before me) - pedal mapping is too aggressive/sensitive in Sport mode and too slow in Chill mode, (however Sport mode is fine if you leave the settings in "Winter tire" mode) - Sport mode accelerates me to 100 kmph in 3.4 and 7.4 in Chill mode f the battery is full, but if the battery is in a low state then the Chill acceleration can be 8.7. What on earth cannot the acceleration permanent 7.2 s all the time, independently from the charge level in Chill mode or even 5 sec.? - Summon does not work in Norway (even if it is enabled) - FSD does not work in Norway (even if it is paid) - Internet browser opens slowly and I cannot set a default site there (does not remember to a lastly opened site after deep sleep also) - I added S3XY commander and buttons to the car where I enabled the "half handlebar opening at rear on the driver side" as open the charge port, but Tesla recently disabled the 12V battery feed on the bus where we I hooked up the Commander, thus this does not work anymore (not switchable back from the display) - Tesla service (here in Trondheim) refused the replacement car during warranty services all the time. Look the list below! I had these issues in the past: 2022.10.07. 45807 km. Rear lamp fogging (replacement cost: 0 NOK) 2023.02.24. 51449 km. Oil pump and cable harness replacement at the rear motor (costs: 0 NOK) 2024.03.01. 72162 km. Door cable harness and horn replacement (0 NOK) 2024.03.07. 72680 km. Both front fog lamps replacement (cost 0 NOK) 2024.05.28. 79967 km. Car repainting on 7 panels (at Hungary, cost: 12300 NOK) 2024.08.27. 85139 km. Both front suspension control arms (0 NOK) 2024.09.18. 86200 km. Both lower lateral links replacement (cost 0 NOK) 2024.11.20. 87xxx km. Front brake pads and rotors replacement (will cost 7200 NOK at not a Tesla shop) Luckily I have radar and stalks! Great car anyways, I love it, but... but the stalk-less new versions are not for me.
Driving down a UK motorway I saw phantom braking first hand, a model Y's brakes kept flashing 3 or 4 times for no reason. I realised after about the fifth time it happened in 5 minutes what was happening, must be very irritating for the driver.
@@MarkusAJ Not really, my mum is also not the best driver. She constantly accelerate and break with one pedal driving. Some ppl. who drove 40 years a regular car got issues adapting to something like one pedal driving.
Tried the highland on a stretch of road I know has problems with phantom braking. Happened 12 times in 40km. 9 gentle and 3 with heavy braking. Never experienced on the same road with my 2016 model S.
Phantom braking is most likely solvable, but almost entirely down to the removal of the radar systems and just using the cameras for everything. Radar, whilst not perfect, at least gives you a quantifiable return on distance. Cameras are only as good as the cleanliness of the lens, and the quality of the underlying software and AI engines driving it.
There was more phantom breaking with radar, since radar is verry bad at vertical distance it would trigger on static objects above the road. I got a Model3 with radar and after the vision update it greatly reduced the phantom breaking. Also don't forget our europe version is 3-4 years old the US version works 10x better and hopefully comes to Europe next year :/
People who are ok with the lack of stalks are those who never use blinkers when exiting roundabouts. Autopilot telling you to keep your hands on the steering wheel the moment you engage it is annoying. Are we that dumb ? And now more phantom braking than ever and so many fake collision warnings ! 🤦♂️ Tesla regresses..
Well, I was at first very negative about the blinkers, but after 4 test drives, I must say I can now use the buttons even when exiting roundabouts. Still, it is a much more difficult manipulation than actioning a fixed stalk. Like it is much less efficient to read the speedo on the central display vs a heads-up display.
Just handed a Model 3 back to the lease company and now have a 2015 MS with AP1….vastly better experience by a mile! I get the usual steering nag but far less than the M3, It uses no internal camera so no whinging there, phantom brakes have disappeared and summon works…slow but it works as does auto park. I tried a M3 minus the stalks and I’m not a fan. I know stalks cost money but familiarity for those moving to EV’s is important.
I literally came here after 10 mins ago I just phantomed breaked. It's annoying ! I've been a heavy autopilot user for about a year now, and within the past few months i have noticed a significant rise in phantom breaking when I use autopilot. It's annoying and can be dangerous especially on highways.
Removing stalks, Removing ultrasonic sensors, Removing rain sensors, Ruling out lidar, Who could have made these questionable decisions 😂 Seriously though, at some point you have to wonder if they are being forced to engineer with one arm tied behind their back.
It's the genious Elon. A little known fact, he began all this dumb things when he bought himself in during Teslas early days. He immediatly started interfering, demanding they installed a gear stick in the Tesla Roadster, in a freakin electric car without any gears. He wanted it because "everyone likes to shift gears in a fast car"
I don't like to give negative feedback, especially about a car brand that is so special in our time. However, you are absolutely right to make this video. I had a Model 3 Performance (December 2019) for 4 ½ years, and the most frustrating aspect was the software. It made me feel like an absolute fool. Even car brands with worse software don't make you feel this way. It's a real pity that this brand doesn’t prioritize customer experience in its improvements. It could have been the iPhone of cars. After 4 ½ years, this was the reason I decided not to buy Tesla again, even though what they achieve and do is truly special.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned that autopilot also has major isssues with off-ramps where it will swerve off then back on! This is my experience in Australia. Tesla please enable dumb cruise control!
I prefer ACC with a radar. If the car in front brake the car will brake if I don’t do it in time. Camera = phantom breaking it seems like. Complicated stuff suck 😊
My phantom braking has gotten worse. I thought it was just in Autopilot, but no, I turn on TACC and it phantom brakes also. It is totally out of control. So bad that I have gotten to the point I won't use it. It is not safe. That is a huge problem when you are afraid to use even the basic cruise control. I literally have to keep my foot in the Tesla. It enters a construction zone it loses it's mind. A car pulls up on the side of the road to wait to enter and it phantom brakes. The car thinks you are going to hit the car on the side of the road. It really is not safe and leaves you constantly on edge. I have a section of road right now with safety cones for constructions and it will phantom brake 3 or 4 times though that section. On roads I don't know what AP is going to do I am frankly not cool using AP. Phantom brake anxiety is real. Vision throws errors saying it can't see. The car is clean and the cameras are clear. Try parking in tight spots and anything that is below bumper level it is blind. Someone is going to use ASS soon enough and something or a car is going to get damaged because vision cannot see low to the ground things. My garage is a obstacle course and it can't see half the stuff near where I park. I have to be very careful parking. Autowipers and auto headlights are embarrassing. I have to keep turning them off. AP in the states it does not adjust the speed when the speed limit changes. And it does not read speed limit signs. I would prefer that the car can and does read those signs and adjust the speed. Give me the option, but nope AP just bitches that I am exceeding the speed setting becuase the speed limit changed. Driving in town and someone decides to turn off of the road in front of you. You see it, you slow down so that the car has time to turn and get off the road. TESLA is SCREAMING - YOUR GONNA DIE! FFS Other people in the car are like WTF is going on? Passengers have anxiety riding in the Tesla. My wife HATES riding in the Tesla. HATES IT! She would rather drive her old beater than to put up with the Tesla. I have to admit I am reaching the point I don't like to drive the Tesla too. There are good things about the Tesla, but you have to put up with too much crap now. Haptic controls deserve no place in a car. The other manufacturers are on the wrong path with those garbage controls. Tesla removed the stalks and that was a hard pass. That is why I bought the pre-refresh. Tesla service centers are not close to everyone. I had to make an appointment and it was almost a month out. Worse yet they refused to send a mobile service tech out. I live 159 miles one way from the service center. I messaged them and finally 2 days before my service appointment where I had to request a day off from work for the appointment and they cancelled the appointment and set it up as a mobile appointment. I am thankful to get the mobile appointment, but why did we wait for almost a month before changing it? Not living close to a service center is a serious problem. Once this car is out of warranty and if I need something done I have to take a 318 mile road trip just to get the car looked at? This is very bad. Make sure you live close to a service center if you are going to get a Tesla or make sure it is a new car under warranty. But expect to WAIT to get an appointment. I get to see my mobile service on Monday. We will see if I get any push back for their poor quality control or if I get to eat the repair costs.
I feel a lot like you after 1 1/2 years in our tesla. I HATE there are no sensors. Especially rain, it's so f... bad. I am always havin a foot ready on the speeder pedal. I'm more ready to push that, than the brake. And you feel like the car knows better than you. Speed limits that it constantly reads wrong. So really don't think I will choose Tesla next time.
I remember arguing with you ages ago that phantom braking is dangerous (it is) and you kept saying it isn’t. It absolutely is dangerous! It has been bad since I got my Model 3 in 2019, and it’s no better now.
@@bjornnyland of course, which happens all the time. It’s their fault, they should not do it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t dangerous when the car in front of them suddenly brakes. *Both* things are dangerous.
Great video, Bjørn. I agree. My 2020 Model 3 was better a few years ago when it relied on the radar, now it phantom brakes more often. Speed sign recognition also needs to be improved. But i still love my car though.
You forgot to complain about 2 more things: 1. If You break and You want to show the cars behind by turning on the hazard blink, You need to look up into the roof and find the almost hidden hazard button. This is unsafe in the situation where You want to avoid bumping into the car in front of You. 2. When You suddenly run i to fog, and want to turn on the fog light, You need to look away from the road and find the fog light button in some submenu. This is very unsafe in the situation. So where is the fysical buttons, You rarely need in dangerous situationens. Lastly: I really enjoyed this video. Thanks 😊
I was really considering buying a model 3 but the constant beeping and shouting makes me crazy...also me driving through 14 roundabouts everyday is just not doable without stalks. These things would make me angry every day.
1. Removing stalks is a very poor decision. Renting a Highland would be a nightmare. Also having a 2nd different car, or a work car with stalks would be a nightmare to adjust everytime. 2. Phantom braking is dangerous. A 2010 Audi with adaptive cruise control works without phantom braking but a car 14 years newer has this issue. Just unnaceptable. 3. If you can't make autowipres work, just leave it on classic, I can turn on the wipers. Why add features that are worse than using manual controls?
I'm also done with Teslas, I just sold the first one and soon selling the second. The cars are getting more annoying by the day with their beeps, charging in all NMC based Teslas really suck and Elon has gone batshit insane. He's lucky to stay out of jail. One constant beeping that really drives me mad in new Teslas is the lane departure detection and it cannot even be disabled properly. You can't even drive according to the local laws and the car has to be exactly in the lane center for it to stay silent. I also stopped using the autopilot entirely already two years ago because of the non-working speed limit detection. The first one was replaced by EQE 350+. Awesome set of wheels, just a bit low and the trunk could be bigger.
Yeah, but many others you don’t find at a Tesla. There is no perfect car, everyone has his advantages and disadvantages, at least with Tesla you can still hope it will be fixed via OTA like many other issues to. But yes, it is far to long to fix phantom braking and speed behavior
Looking at this video, I wonder if the new Model 3 is worse than the older models. My '23 Model Y does not phantom brake this consistenly. Maybe 1 out of 10 cases due to oncoming trucks, and a bit worse in low light or rain. The usual places near Hamar, Gran are of course really bad. When a lane merges without any white lines, the car tend to track to the right. Anyway, great that the influencers bring this up.
Depends on your region where you drive, my daily routes in Germany have zero phantom breakings. But if I drive to one specific customer it always happens at the same spot cause of wrong map data
got a 3 2021, there are roads and highways where it consistently phantom breaks, really feels like wrong map data at times, like dropping to a from 120 to 60-40 speedlimit on the highway. same problem with beeping during the drive for no visible issues. also driving in a construction lane over exit-lanes the car ALWAYS tries to steer between exit and the construction lane - literally a killer car.
I completely agree about autopilot strikes. How dare a car In ought remove features I paid for? If AP is "safer than a human" as is claimed, why disengage and deny use of it, ever? It's bullshit.
Could it be a hardware issue? I have a MYLR sep 22. In the first 6 months I had some phantom breaking issues, specially when new patches on the road or when the sun was dawning in front. However I haven’t have those issues in the last two years. I don’t use Tesla vision.
I have '21 Model 3 LR. Major annoyances are ONLY (a) the cabin camera nag (covered with a business card!) and (b) the "auto" wipers, which are completely hopeless - even worse, it constantly resets to auto wipe as soon as selecting AP. Wiping dry screens, with smeared bugs etc. is dangerous, and very annoying.
Phantom Braking is really bad on my Model 3 Highland Performance. It just brakes and decelerates randomly all the time. Would love to have a standard cruise control without any adaptive sheeeeeeeet. Pretty annoying and sometimes quite dangerous imo. Also, I can't get my head around how they manage to drive fully autonomous through LA or San Francisco but don't get the basic sheeeeeeeeeeet right here in Europe. Otherwise, it is a great car and I really enjoy driving it (mostly without cruise control now).
This is why I am still on the 2022.12.3.1 version. 🙂 No nagging, 150km/h AP, no spying camera, no 1 week penalty box after 5 strikes-I just leave the car and go back driving again. No speed warning. I still use the radar and I have almost zero phantom breaking-very rare and mild.
You are my hero. Wish I would’ve done this 😭. I liked Ap a lot more when it was dumber and more reliable 😢. Sure, it’s better in some sense, but I miss the good “old” days.
Phantom Braking is partly a consequence of not having front radar. All it has is video. At the very least Tesla and the other manufacturers should make it easy to report mistakes. Without that: they won't get better
Not true. FSD works just fine with camera only. Tesla puts 99% of the effort in FSD. Eventually Autopilot will use the same stack as FSD. The current Autopilot is horrendous. Borderline unusable on my roads.
Original teslas had LiDAR. Still phantom braking. Camera based is always going to be rubbish with fog/rain/dirty roads etc. I wont even use my autopilot as it cant handle old fashioned UK A roads like the A1 near Grantham (with the cut across scary lanes). Buttock clenching stuff, to the point that I’m not ‘allowed’ to use it by my wife anymore. Plus I don’t like the removal of the stalks. Even if you ‘get used to it’ it makes swapping between vehicles ‘fun’. I don’t mind getting used to stuff, but why stalks? It’s turning into ‘the car built for Homer’.
@@fittetube bats don't crash in fog. Bear that in mind. Personally, I'm a pro LIDAR person. However, if there is one positive thing you can say about camera only - it is that the software developer team can focus on getting that into a good state as they possibly can before worrying about the other inputs. It also means all of the capacity in the vehicle is focused on image recognition, interpretation and planning what to do. LIDAR is an incredibly complicated source of data as you don't just get image you get depth as well. It takes a lot of compute to interpret. But Volvo, Polestar and I believe Mercedes are starting to offer it on vehicles. Expensive vehicles.
Driving Highland for a year, my firat tesla in Europe. You are right on spot with all stupid downgrades. I agree 100% with you Byorn. Other then mentioned downgrades all other upgrades are great. Why change something that was already working great. Make Tesla great again!!!
Are there any efficient alternatives to a model 3? I have test driven a model 3 highland and also experienced phantom braking and the broken cruise control activation button. Also I think I would miss stalks for wipers and high beams for manual override in certain situations. Speed sign recognition did not work at all and voice control was much worse than Apple CarPlay which I use in my current car.
Thank you Bjørn for the video, I was already planning for a M3 LRRW for January 2025, I think I will remain with my 190 HP 4WD diesel ICE with no nonsense and useful radar cruise control and lane assist - all with sensors etc. and with 1000+ km range - and no OTA updates which could change my nice car into an annoying piece of… I get unhappy when I get sudden warning if my wipers fluid run out, would return the car if it would do so much unnecessary beeping and annoyance as the car Bjørn is making video about. Not to mention the phantom breaking and all the other stupid stuff.
@@jsjs6751 good question. I assumed Autopilot had the same underlying hardware and computation but ‘detuned’ from most of the FSD functions. Is this not the case?
It's literally insane to move every control in a car to interfaces that require you to look away from the road to know what you're pressing. Cancel Teslas!
I actually almost never use the screen controls when driving my Tesla. Most things are on automatic and work well, cruse control, music volume and adjusting wiper speed is done with the scroll wheels on the steering wheel, and navigation usually automatically switches between home and work, and any other destinations I do by voice command (and the voice command button is on the steering wheel). But when the car is driving itself, which it is in my case for more than 90% of the time, it's no problem to use the screen screen, the 2024 screen is also very easy to read, even in sunny weather.
Tesla developers should listen to uncle Bjørn I think. Apart from that the slowdowns before curves are too heavy since they introduced TeslaVision. It’s also very very annoying. Until TeslaVision came there were not these unneeded slowdowns. Tesla either please hurry up with those EU regulations or update the source code of this overaged Autopilot Stack for EUROPE
That was not caused by vision, EU forced tesla to reduce the max side G force on steering inputs. It will even show a message saying "steering limited" which was caused by that law. In the same update they also had to remove the automatic highway switching now you need to explicit activate the lane change so you miss your exist...
The issue with phantom break is related to missing radar. Our car with radar doesn't phantom break almost at all. Today I tested model 3 it kt phantom brakes just because truck passes on other lane
Tesla, stop relying on cameras for your automated systems. We keep being told that cameras are improving, so we don't need radar or lidar. I love the concept, but like politicians, they make promises they never deliver on. Give us sensors, and when you perfect camera technology in about 2034, then do it.
You can adjust how early the collision warning triggers. My mum also get constant beeps since she doesn't know how to keep the car centered in the lanes.. Could also be a driving skill issue :D
The S3XY knob/button has solved a lot of these issues for me. Using the button for gear shift under the arm rest and the re engaging of autopilot is great. I’m slowly getting used to the indicators but I live in Portugal so no one else uses them anyway 😂
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
After 60k miles of phantom breaking my wife and I have new muscle memory, she shouts "this car is trying to kill us" and I always accelerate when the car brakes, I'm not sure what is more dangerous or limiting to my lifespan. My #1 Tesla update would be do have dumb cruise control.
I have muscle memory to press accelerator when passing a truck, overtaking a bicycle or even pedestrian, cause I know Tesla is going to break. It often starts breaking split second before my foot lands on the pedal, so I know my predictions are accurate :)
Disable emergency braking and there you go. No phantom braking
@@PointBlankPTIf a thing doesn’t work, disable it. Genius.😂
@@martinweston8147 if it makes you feel better, I have had adaptive cruise control in a rental prius in the US almost kill me. I was in adaptive cruise control mode set to 70 mph, in traffic doing 50 mph, on whatever the freeway north of San Francisco is. This has been working well until then: when a gap developed I would speed up except suddenly it started accelerating even though there was a car not far in front - because it had just gone over the rise of a hill. The car in front was no longer visible so the previous US decided to bump up the speed by 20 mph even though the car was just as close as it had been before. Put differently: we software developers can always screw up.
It isn't supposed to work well for us, it's supposed to work for NCAP safety tests 😀
Happy I sold my 3 and got a Polestar 2. None of the phantom braking. Real rain sensor. Proper stalks. Can turn off regen. Better headlights. Semi auto trailer hook. No more Tesla Service centers!!
if the boss is such a fan of democracy, why not let people vote if they want a stalk or a buttons?
Because we don't know what is best for us? Or for Tesla? Or for the environment? Or for the production/price/complexity? 😅
And we are conservative in our ways, so hardly anybody would want to change anything if it was not forced upon us?
Tesla is a company, not a country
@@jsjs6751Or how about people have common sense, and will decide what is best? The cost and complexity can be applied to everything then: just remove the rear doors, and have passengers enter through only the front! Let’s not have two head lights, but one single center headlight!
Your response is ridiculous.
@@tugateslathere are still votes.
that's dumb. You NEVER run businesses democratically.
I completely agree with your statement. Tesla has the best EV base and software integration off all the EVs we drove. They could just build the best cars in the market but decided to shoot them selfs in the foot with the forced innovation. The Model Y with the old stocks and the new look plus highland ride quality would be hard to beat. And if they dont want to use sonic sensores for parking, they need a camera that can see the front. Those are so obvious improvements that I can't wrap my head around why they dont dont do it.
Thats miss-guided on all fronts. Build quality is poor, they hand over their cars with faults from new. The software does all that Bjorn and still phantom breaks which is dangerous my model 3 from 2019 did this a lot also for no reason. Almost rear ended once because of it. Compared to my KIA Niro EV which has better self driving software which does not brake unnecessarily and guess what also has hardware and software integration on the things necessary to give you a reliable experience. Oh and the battery degradation is far far less and better range than a Tesla so no Tesla are not in front anymore at all.
Could you define „software integration“?
@De4dCert
I would disagree with the build quality if you consider the price. I can only speak for Germany hear and even a niro was 6k more expensive then a model Y.
The niro ev was a very close second for us and I completely agree in terms of the self driving. If tesla would use a similar telemetry system with radar sensors, they might get a better result. But in terms of EV capabilities the niro is 5 years old. 80kw fast charging and a consumption of 15-16kw/h for that size of a car can't compete with a model Y SR. And the infotainment system of the niro looks nice and feels like from 2010.
It is way easier for tesla though to improve on the things you criticized in my opinion, compared to what other manufacturers have to do in term of making their cars more efficient. The id7 tourer is a brilliant car and even beats the model Y in some categories, but it's almost double the price in a comparable spec.
Edit: we usually drive 100-150km per day 90% of that on the autobahn. So highway consumption is what I'm referring to. And the model y beats the smaller and lighter niro on the highway.
@@Bimmer_i4_M50
Stuff like a phone as a key, how Quick and reliable the App works, how easy it is to use the satnav, the car will redirect you on long journeys to less used superchargers to make sure everyone can charge without delay.
I did not test the Kia App to be fair, only the MG and Audi app and bothe were not on the same level.
@@Korgaro Let me address my view on your comments. The build quality and finish of a KIA imo is better and is why they can offer a 7 year bumper to bumper warranty. Tesla cant offer more than 4 years or they would be going out of business fixing their cars. The Niro EV can actually achieve their rated miles with varied driving, this is something most EV drivers are surprised with them using one and is my experience too. Compared to a model 3 which never achieved its rated miles even in summer. Telsa took a step back when removing radar which makes Bjorns issues worse here. 80kw charging is not 5 years old when you have a charging curve that stays at a higher rate for longer between 10% and 80% it still only means a stop of 35 mins on long distance trips. Degradation on a Kia is far less at 100,000 miles. Actually I get about 3 miles a KWH in the winter and 4.5 miles a kwh in the summer. That is better than my experience owning a Tesla model 3. I think the Niro EV is more efficient than a Tesla model 3 on average in varied conditions. Tesla only at higher temperatures. Infotainment? I have something called as Dash display right in front of me with all the information I need ands speed I am doing oh and even sat NAV. I dont have to behave like a chameleon while driving to check what speed I am doing or why phantom breaking kicked in for no reason. I have actual practical buttons for what I need to adjust things or total voice command over them. Most people do not like a touch screen or lack of stalks. I think the Tesla only beats the Niro on consumption during the summer months. Lastly Tesla can brag all day about its software updates etc. KIA only release things when they are tested and actually work. All the evidence of telling the public a load of crap about how advanced Teslas vision is out in the real world is right here in Bjorn’s video. Instead driving my KIA Niro EV I have features that all work reliably and don’t over promise in what they really can do. Maybe they will one day. But I will enjoy my uninterrupted driving for far longer than Tesla owners waiting years for a fix to all that was demonstrated today. I was a Tesla owner I just work up to what makes a good car as an overall package. At this rate KIA might have full self driving before Tesla but gave their entire customer base a smoother and safer route to it.
Björn don’t forget the phantom vipers! So frustrating, clean window no rain and still the wipers turns on in autopilot!
If you mean it changes the setting of the wipers to auto when you engage autopilot then this is by design, as the camera at the top of the windscreen needs to be clear to allow the vision system to work.
I do agree the wipers are absolutely awful though, my 2016 golf had better auto wipers.
When its raining cats and dogs the auto vipers wont engage. The second I enter a tunnel the wipers engage on turbo. Similar with auto high beam. Driving at night and enter a dark tunnel. Turns of high beam.
YES - "auto" wipers are a complete disaster!
I have the phantom vipers sometimes on very sunny days, with trees casting shadows on the road. Usually it's ok, but it's nice it can now be set to manual while the car is on auto. It also enables the wipers if they where on when the car was parked several days ago, which is pointless.
Lack of stalks definitely is the one that pushes us back. Not everyone has the luxury of owning a car for each household members, parking are limited where we live so we share cars at home. So for example I personally may get used to the indicator buttons but not my family members, not the kids who will get their license sharing the car, not the wife who drive it ocassionally, not my siblings who come for a short visit. I think it may have contributed to the low sales numbers. Here in Australia you need to indicate to exit by law unless going straight, how the heck could I indicate to exit when the left button could be on the right and heck the button may not even be at the right place.
The new Model 3 is only good for those idiots who never use their indicator at the roundabout or never at all. They would love it
What bothers me the most is that they didn't put the LH indicator on the left side of the steering wheel and the RH indicator on the right
At least that would have made sense, not stacked above one another when you're busy turning the wheel.
@@Stewiedude1 Wouldn't make sense when you have the wheel upside down on a roundabout.
@MyMednas makes more sense then next to each other still. Much like how Ferrari do their indicators, especially if you're hands aren't leaving the wheel given Tesla has quite a tight steering rack with lock to lock in a couple of turns.
I'd rather stalks everyday just pointing out the utter stupidity of it.
@@Stewiedude1 It certainly would have made more sense to do it the way you suggest, but it would still be infuriating in a roundabout when the steering wheel is upside down (the arrows are inverted).
It has no butt massage!
I just hope Tesla listen to you Bjorn. These same issues plague us here in Australia too.
YES, absolutely - auto wipers are bloody dangerous esp. on a dry, buggy screen!
@@petergorton9848 I have installed the Enhance Auto Commander unit that allows you to cancel the auto wipers engaging with autopilot. It has stopped the dry wipes issue, and the S3XY knob gives some better control. It is a second-rate workaround, but it has made the car bearable.
I think many of these issues are due to the cars being optimised for US roads, making them less usable here in Europe. Our roads are narrower and we have many more roundabouts
Meaning the so called Robotaxi will only be available in the US and Canada ?
@@V10PDTDIfor the best. Waymo only do a few cities they know perfectly. I do gave a friend near San Francisco whose road seems to be a test area for their overnight software updates: every morning one will come in, do the exact same manoeuvres as the day before and then repeat this every morning. If Waymo got their previous day's code wrong- they'll be the ones to find out as a robotaxi drives into their house
"optimised for US roads"
I think you're correct. Does the Model Y suffer the same defect? European Model Ys are made in Germany so it would be stupid to make 'US optimised' cars there.
Oh dear... from google results it seems that the Model Y also phantom brakes:
No more excuses, please.
Good point
Don't forget the fact that Tesla should have so much data on the Norwegian roads, and how they look/their speed limits, but STILL they can't deliver a better experience for their drivers.
they might not focus on it -> FSD in selected USA locations.
They don't even need to edit the data himself. Simply set up a website that allows (exclusively) Tesla drivers to interactively maintain a map with speed limits.
Tesla is the only car I have driven where my foot rests over the accelerator when using ACC
Exactly
As a Tesla Model 3 Highland owner, I do not experience the attention alarm, but the phantom breaking is a serious issue, just as Bjørn says. It happens when you use cruise control and autopilot. It is so disturbing that you can only use cruise control and autopilot on the highway where the road is physically separated. According to Elon on X, we will get a major improvement in these systems in the first quarter of 2025... I really hope that this is the case. Also, I cannot adjust the regenerative braking. I thought I could but I cannot get use to a heavy foot regenerative breaking in the highland. I absolutely hate that I cannot adjust the regenerative braking.
Elon is making predictions and promises all the time. Next year for sure...
No. They are talking about FSD in USA. Autopilot is not getting any updates. 😢
Since the last update I can change regenerative breaking. I noticed demishing braking and there the option was in the menu. (2019 LR RWD)
I have owned Tesla for eight years. It has always been really great real soon now.
He gets the attention alarm cause he looks at the screen or somewhere else when activating the system. On activation you need to look on the road or it will directly warn you :D
Many good points Bjørn, we do not like being too controlled!
It seems that Tesla is not that great anymore. I was thinking of buying a Tesla but??? Ido not know anymore. Hartza
Renault has the best disabling of safetysystems!!! You program it once how you like it, and then push a button twice when you start your drive and everything you want is disabled!! SOOOO nice!!!
BMW had the same. For some reason it's not there anymore on the new models.
This will most likely be removed. EU have/are making laws that forces the manufacturers to make it more annoying to disable safety features. For instance, it needs to be "at least 2 clicks to change the distance to the car before you in cruise control". Some things will probably not even be possible to disable. In my older EV I can disable the AVAS sound, but I think it's not possible by law in newer cars now.
I have the new Renault Scenic and it is the best balance of EV and modern vehicle Tech ... complete with stalks (maybe one too many) buttons plus mirror and window buttons on the door armrest
Great - what would be even better was if they had and would use their lobbying power to prevent such laws from passing instead of voting against innovation and customers by lobbying for import taxes of Chinese cars...
The speed warning needs to be disabled for every drive, that's an EU regulation for all new cars sold in the EU market. Not much Tesla can do about that.
Completely agree with your criticism, I was almost going to buy a Tesla model 3 but after a test drive which had no stalks etc I decided against it, I know Tesla are great but Tesla has pushed it to the extreme by removing all basic parts in the car and in some part making it less safe to drive the car, I can't imagine trying to figure out where the turn signal buttons are on the steering while turning in a complicated roundabout
I don’t use autopilot or cruise control in my Tesla. My wife has neck issues and simply can’t deal with phantom braking. It hits so hard at lower speeds that either we deal with the stress of driving or the stress of constantly waiting for a phantom brake that may or may not come. The stress of driving is way less, so we just don’t use it at all. I feel like this defeats the whole point of all the safety precautions if it causes customers to simply not use the feature.
It helps if you keep your foot on the accelerator just a tiny bit and then the braking is disabled.
@@cemaul Oh, I didn't know that, thanks for the tip!
The amount of phantom breaking events in this video is so high that a feature like that should not be put on production cars
tbh this is stopping me buying one
Nice to hear that phantom braking is still no better. I sold my model 3 in 2021 and swapped to an enyaq - better autopilot, more space and no haptic buttons. Tesla kept telling me that their software was in beta and would soon improve. Sounds like they're still working on it. The build quality and monthly visits to the SC for repairs were the deal breaker for me. Can't say I miss any of it which is a shame as I had expected so much better.
Totally agree! You can’t really use autopilot anymore on smaller roads in Sweden. Phantom brake is insane! The nagging is much worse than before. I stopped use autopilot after a few weeks with my Highland. And agree with the rest as well.
I own a Tesla Model 3 Long Range 2019 model which has stalks and ultrasonic sensors. I love it even though its noisy at highway speeds and the suspension is hard. I cannot see myself buying a Tesla again after the removal of stalks and ultrasonic sensors.
I’d happily delete the new LCD display for rear passengers to get my stalks and ultrasonic sensors back. Stupid cost cutting only to add useless features
Completely agree, lack of stalks is silly, unnecessary small saving, unsafe on roundabouts, unsafe while in need to quickly engage or disengage AP. So handy and safe to be able to control cruise speed and distance to the followed car using a stalk without taking eyes off the road. That's one of the reasons for buying 2017 car, actually in Norway :) It feels more like a car, have stalks, have a glassroof I can open ! That should still be an option in top-of-the-range models! It has an old enhanced AP without FSD and still has a front Lidar, which is reassuring me that the car will not phantom brake too often. Still does it on narrow winding hilly roads when in AP but very very rarely and it doesn't shout on me when I drive the car, it never let me down even during the worst driving conditions! It was actually impressive to watch it plowing through the storm in the night, rain was so heavy that I couldn't see the road yet AP handled it like a boss with motorway speeds! I really don't think that cameras-only-based AP would perform that good. Lack of dash, even the simplest one like in BMW i3 or HUD instead is another silly downgrade. All that to save a few dollars and to be able to give big discounts from time to time when stock price requires a push?.... I'm still a fan of the brand but please, give your customers important options, at least in more expensive models. As nice feature as the FSD is, not everyone is up for FSD-only future and I honestly don't think that people who actually like to drive their cars will let that ever happen. Would you trust it 100% in the current development stage? When it doesn't even slow down on speed ramps, occasionally phantom brakes while passing under bridges recognizing shadow as an obstacle, it doesn't see broken tree branches on the road and so on...
Respect, did not expect you name it this clear👍
So, let me get this straight. Tesla cars are still unable to get the speed limits right, they phantom break and they even do it *after* the fact. And yet, some people still claim that Tesla can deliver an unsupervised "self-driving" car soon?
We have in Europe a 4 years old Autopilot stack. America has a much better version.
@@dr2okevin Is the US version in fact better?
It may have more features. But is it actually safer in the very same situations? Did the speed sign recognition improve? Is the phantom braking fixed? And are there no other, new problems?
I have read some reviews from people using Tesla's autopilot in the US. Some of them claim that they stopped using it because it was too dangerous. It accelerates hard, it breaks hard. It takes unsafe turns. And so on. Of course, I cannot objectively assess whether that is generally true or not. But the mere fact that there are people complaining about it suggests that it might not be an isolated problem.
The US Version has complete different software, the EU version is some old handwritten code which controls the behavior.. Since it was never changed it behaves the same since 4 years obviously.
The US Version uses end to end neural networks, you can't compare that at all. I don't care to much about unsupervised, I would be happy if we even get the supervised version in Europe...
@@dr2okevin Oh as someone in the US, it's bad here too.
*brake
This video is very informative! Thank you Bjorn.
Tesla vision is all you have to say. it can't detect the edge of the road unless in perfect white-lined condition, gets confused by two shades of grey bitumen, doesn't realise that when the line animation is skipping back and forward for the centre line or road edge 60 times a minute it means the sensor algorithm isn't coping but it alarms anyway (that conservative over caution). Can't tell the difference between a dark shadow across the road shadow and a ditch so brakes, can't tell that a cyclist coming around a corner straight ahead at the moment but which is on the other lane side of the road as normal just looks like a collision path, but brakes anyway. Remember that radar stuff that Elon says is just stupid, well it detects objects and gaps. AI has to produce a 3d representation not a flat picture to operate intelligently. It is early days but if the boss says it is fantastic, to sell cars, then so be it. Yes it still has trouble with speed limit signs. Lane departure produces 99.99% false alarms and has to be turned off every time the car starts, and those pop up hazard warnings are positioned to maximize distraction by being as low on the screen as possible, from viewing the road scene ahead in an absolutely perverse manner. Your rant is 100% justified.
It’s garbage. And no one talks about it enough.
You‘re so right about each and every one of these points
Said this under several Tesla vids: my current 2023 model Y is the last Tesla I´ll be buying. Why? Stalks and gear lever. Elmo becoming a super villan doesn´t help either...
Agreed, I have the same car and probably the next one won't be a Tesla.
I might still choose Tesla but I will buy third party stalks. They seem to work great.
Soynds like you should drive a Chinese car. Super villan, are you completly retarded.
@@MartinzWcan we ask for a third party ceo 😂
@@Artificial-Hell :D eh, I don't associate car with ceo. I wish he would change as well though
Test drove one of these, the complete lack of stalks was a deal breaker, especially the indicators, just stupid!!
I got used to it in 10 minutes. No problem imo.
@@stighaaland5357
I got used to having a hernia. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.
@@stighaaland5357 Its not about to get used to it. It is total bullshit, you cant use them on twisty roads, everytime you steer too much you cant press the buttons. Also in roundabouts. Sure, on a Highway it is not a problem. But why create this issues? makes no sense, its bullshit, thats it.
Agreed. No stalks, no sale.
@@projectneo9269 Nah, I rather buy the one without the stalks. Like that more than the stalks.
I am close to make my next car choice, and my numerous test drives make me lean towards a Model 3 LR, but you are summarizing and illustrating well all the cons I read on the web and from owners I met. I have never been so uncertain about my car choice than in 2024.
Same here… I am thinking to go for the new EV6
It is always possible to find negative sides in any product. Autopilot works ok on motorways, not on two lane roads and Tesla does not recommend it either. I am aware of the negative points mentioned here and consider them to be of very little importance. I am sure you will be very pleased with any new Tesla you buy. I just bought a model 3 in September - perfect. Also own a model 3 from June 23 - just as pleased
If it’s about the stalks, you can get aftermarket ones.
Test drive other cars then. If you can live with any of them then you have a choice...otherwise you have no choice. I mean I wouldn't be sticking another dollar in the dark lord's already overflowing wallet but if that doesn't bother you then hesitation is only useful if there's some other thing to choose.
The things are annoying but you get used to it. The range , comfort , drive and supercharging compensate for these issues. Not sure why Tesla can’t fix phantom braking.
The blinker buttons don't work reliably. At least not in mine. In addition to all the other irritations you mentioned.
Can you imagine if you went and test drova a Skoda Enyaq and it phantom brakes 15 times. Nobody would ever buy the car.
It is simply not good enough.
Yes, I don't get why so many people keep buying Teslas. They don't know that most other cars don't phantom brake?
@cleanupordie They are cheap and they offer one thing no other brands do: the Tesla grin 😁
@@jsjs6751 You obviously didn't even test drive other brands with similar 0-100 times. Tesla grin is just "EV grin"...
@Danne89 I know, they are getting there.
But how many is cheaper to buy and cheaper in use than Model 3 or Y? I don't know - you tell me?
Also, remember, the Tesla grin has been making wrinkles in big boys' faces since 2012-ish. 😊
@@jsjs6751 maybe but cant even think of phantom breaking on the M25 .....would be rear ended 100%
Phantom braking really gets on my nerves in my MY. I absolutely hate it. Also the hard brakes before normal curves that can easily be done at speed limit.
Thanks for the longer video! To be honest, I got anxiety from watching what the car was doing in response to normal road traffic, and I wasn’t even driving! It’s the software that’s really bad, and a company philosophy that’s becoming arrogant in not listening to feedback.
Good to bring it up to the surface. Hopefully it will get better.
This guy rocks , verbalizes all my gripes
As a former Tesla owner (now SQ6), I am totally with about the lack of stokes. For me it is an absolute no 22:25 go. I was considering a model 3 again as a second car, but as long as they lack stokes it won’t happen. By the way, the fantom breaks are not just a pain in the a… they are DANGEROUS !
They are dangerous, because they might cause a truck in the a...s.
How many phantom brake incidents happened just in this one hour of driving? Like 10 or something? I stopped counting at some point. The "oncoming truck in a corner" case seems to be highly reproducible. How anybody can consider this usable or safe is beyond me.
Test drove a highland. 12 incidents in 40km. Quite location/road dependent though.
I was considering a model 3 for my next car, and now the long range rwd has arrived, I'm quite tempted.
However, I just don't want what I consider is a compromised car. Wipers, indicators, lack of buttons, stupid interior led lights etc.
Why put a screen in the back for my dog and nothing centrally for me, the driver???!!!
Anyway, there are some good options available now and the near future, so it's no loss for me.
My autopilot is basically useless except for the highways. Slows down randomly on the same stretch of road every single day....
So far, my passengers experience in the 24 MYLR has been horrible. The autopilot just does weird unexpected stuff all around. It's suddenly stops, it suddenly moves left or right where there's a merge from right lane (I guess tries to center suddenly when a merge starts with 2 lane's width supposed to cover two cars! but autopilot just sudden shifts in the middle of it!), and sometimes suddenly outright disengages telling me to pay attention to the road! while I am obviously, and poor passengers who're thrown left and right and feel nauseated.
Also I still don't understand how speed adjustments work, It seems to me after 4000km, that when there's a lower speed limit, like half the time, after a few minutes, it auto adjusts the speed down. but when there's an increase, it just 100% ignore it and you have to manually intervene. I've driven many times with an 82kmph speed into the Operatunnel under Oslo (70kmph speed limit), cause my Autopilot didn't adapt, not sure if Elon pays for the potential fines or not.
Overall really bad experience, I wish I did more of a test drive before getting my "soon-to-be-deprecated" model y.
Thanks Bjorn, your comments are my comments. I own a 2019 M3 and I am keeping it until they get parking sensors and stalks back. Ideally a passive cruise control would also be a huge improvement, as it actually was in the beginning of owning before they changed to default active one
same issue on the A1 in Germany coming from Trier to Ramstein between "Raststätte Hochwald West and Intersection Hermeskeil". Since 3-4 Years same trottling to 60 on Autobahn. There is no speed limit. So it throttles down from 140 to 60
The automatic wipers are horrible. Going 100% vision was the biggest cost-cutting mistake.
Interesting video. I just can’t stand bad driving assist features. I would not buy a car that behaved like this. Annoying beeps and boops whenever the road turns or there’s oncoming traffic. What a bad joke.
I’m so happy with my C40. I tried quite many EVs before deciding. When I finally found out about it, through this channel, I started understanding this was probably my car. It’s so simple yet exactly what I want and need from a car.
i love tesla, but i'll never buy one due to lack of stalks ( i also prefer physical climate buttons) very sad direction they're taking.
Toyota has a cruise control stalk too, it's my favorite feature for sure.
Thanks for the video. Why have the ADAS features gone backwards?
Absolutely. Had two Tesla’s and the greatness turned into irritation. The quality isn’t bad. But the autopilot and software have consistently become worse. Phantom braking was a thing in several updates of my S100D. Finally they fixed it. But then they disabled the radar and relied solely on camera’s, which reduced the functionality a lot. But I’ve always loved that car in the 5,5y I drove that. The MYPerf not so much. Had it for 5 months and it irritated me so much: the excellent wipers didn’t stop wiping, even during bone dry sunny weather it would keep wiping. 😱 Enhanced Autopilot didn’t come with autopark: “it will be added later”. Drove it for 5m and it was never activated. 💸. The interior camera activation was so annoying I also blocked it. And yes they re-introduced phantom braking again after over a year of fixing it! 🤦🏻♂️ But the general autopilot experience went downhill soooo fast. Yuck.
Now that I’m considering my next EV, Tesla is no longer on it. I hate their Ferrari-esque lack of stalks. I have several cars and having to adapt to no stalks while all others have stalks, I’m not looking forward to that. I don’t want to adapt to that. Exit Tesla.
We drove around Iceland in a Tesla model Y 2023 this summer. The car is nice but the phantom breaking is not. About 15 times it breaked in 14 days. Especially when traffic comes from the left.
Autonomous driving is near 😅
Phantom breaking always gives me anxiety in my model 3!
Braking
@@Nickbaldeagle02 thanks lol, not a native speaker here
Drove a Model Y for 3 months before I got my Scenic. It bugged the hell out of me which is a shame because the ride itself is good. To a point where it suddenly started complaining about an empty child seat not having the safety belt plugged in. So I had to keep the belt plugged in all the time. I'm very happy with the Scenic because it just helps me drive without annoying me and the ACC is very good. Also works like a charm in traffic jams where it brakes and accelerates much more gentle than the Tesla. Also it has a button to disable all the annoyances in a single press and the automatic wipers just work, unlike Tesla's which don't work at all.
Totally agree with the autopilot strike bull** as well. I mean they have Joe mode, what about a feature to turn off mommy mode?
I cannot agree more, Bjorn and greetings from Trondheim! Luckily the speed warning can be disabled permanently at least on my 2021, Intel equipped system.
But here is my problem list from TM3P 2021 with FSD (Fremont):
- does not continue the Spotify/RUclipsMusic song, because network error (related to deep sleep, I think)
- does not continue the song, if I played music from an USB-dongle (except if you leave the car in continuous Sentry mode.)
- voice commands are changing and disappearing often after updates (for instance: USB)
- the temperature displaying is super inaccurate after preconditioning (even -7 Celius. Tesla could not fix it even after 3 attempts. This is only a sw. compensation thing)
- lane keep assist is super annoying also when you try to avoid pat holes (yes, it can be disabled, but it comes back after leaving the car) IT WORTH ANYTHING FOR ME IF SOMEBODY CAN HELP ME TO DISABLE THIS PERMANENTLY
- phantom braking (as Bjorn mentioned) IT WORTH ANYTHING FOR ME IF SOMEBODY CAN HELP ME TO DISABLE THIS PERMANENTLY
- front passenger door has to be open and closed even if nobody used that before or after a ride, because it stays the car idle and not lock (cable harness swap did not help. I need special attention on this)
- 3 direction indicator blink is not enough for a stalk poke (it can be adjusted in a Kia to 5 or even 7 blinks) when I want to change the lane or take a turn
- handle of the door freezes even after 20 min. preconditioning in winter time
- the paint is knocked off in the wheel arch and in general behind the wheels just after 50k km (even with Multi red)
- the car has data SIM card or eSIM, but I need to add the car to a WiFi network to get/download the updates (even I a Premium Connectivity subscriber). What does not download it itself on the data SIM?
- Bluetooth door opening, closing is sucks with a smartphone (works 40 of 100%)
- Tesla deletes the (1-2 years) old complains, issues in the service history panel in your phone app (even the pdf invoices)
- Tesla will refuse to tell you the history past of your car if you are a 2nd hand owner, because privacy rights (other words, I do not have right to know the problems, crashes, issues what happened in the past, before me)
- pedal mapping is too aggressive/sensitive in Sport mode and too slow in Chill mode, (however Sport mode is fine if you leave the settings in "Winter tire" mode)
- Sport mode accelerates me to 100 kmph in 3.4 and 7.4 in Chill mode f the battery is full, but if the battery is in a low state then the Chill acceleration can be 8.7. What on earth cannot the acceleration permanent 7.2 s all the time, independently from the charge level in Chill mode or even 5 sec.?
- Summon does not work in Norway (even if it is enabled)
- FSD does not work in Norway (even if it is paid)
- Internet browser opens slowly and I cannot set a default site there (does not remember to a lastly opened site after deep sleep also)
- I added S3XY commander and buttons to the car where I enabled the "half handlebar opening at rear on the driver side" as open the charge port, but Tesla recently disabled the 12V battery feed on the bus where we I hooked up the Commander, thus this does not work anymore (not switchable back from the display)
- Tesla service (here in Trondheim) refused the replacement car during warranty services all the time. Look the list below!
I had these issues in the past:
2022.10.07. 45807 km. Rear lamp fogging (replacement cost: 0 NOK)
2023.02.24. 51449 km. Oil pump and cable harness replacement at the rear motor (costs: 0 NOK)
2024.03.01. 72162 km. Door cable harness and horn replacement (0 NOK)
2024.03.07. 72680 km. Both front fog lamps replacement (cost 0 NOK)
2024.05.28. 79967 km. Car repainting on 7 panels (at Hungary, cost: 12300 NOK)
2024.08.27. 85139 km. Both front suspension control arms (0 NOK)
2024.09.18. 86200 km. Both lower lateral links replacement (cost 0 NOK)
2024.11.20. 87xxx km. Front brake pads and rotors replacement (will cost 7200 NOK at not a Tesla shop)
Luckily I have radar and stalks! Great car anyways, I love it, but... but the stalk-less new versions are not for me.
Also Tesla: 12V outputs do not work when you walk away from the car. In latest updare.
Driving down a UK motorway I saw phantom braking first hand, a model Y's brakes kept flashing 3 or 4 times for no reason. I realised after about the fifth time it happened in 5 minutes what was happening, must be very irritating for the driver.
Can also be the driver lol if he use one pedal driving and lift his foot break lights go on... :D
@@kenion2166easy to distinguish. Did it happen while meeting cars or not?
@@MarkusAJ Not really, my mum is also not the best driver. She constantly accelerate and break with one pedal driving. Some ppl. who drove 40 years a regular car got issues adapting to something like one pedal driving.
Still phantom braking almost in 2025? My god...
Tried the highland on a stretch of road I know has problems with phantom braking. Happened 12 times in 40km. 9 gentle and 3 with heavy braking. Never experienced on the same road with my 2016 model S.
It's worse than ever with Vision
Phantom braking is most likely solvable, but almost entirely down to the removal of the radar systems and just using the cameras for everything. Radar, whilst not perfect, at least gives you a quantifiable return on distance. Cameras are only as good as the cleanliness of the lens, and the quality of the underlying software and AI engines driving it.
There was more phantom breaking with radar, since radar is verry bad at vertical distance it would trigger on static objects above the road. I got a Model3 with radar and after the vision update it greatly reduced the phantom breaking.
Also don't forget our europe version is 3-4 years old the US version works 10x better and hopefully comes to Europe next year :/
As I’m watching I’m looking through a rain covered windscreens and wondering when you’ll talk about poor auto-wipers.
In the Model X 1000 km challenge.
Auto wipers work pretty good now compared to the previous version lmao
More often, they wipe on a DRY screen! and don't come on in heavier rain!
@@kenion2166 My previous car (2015) had better auto wipers than highland M3. Of course my current car as well.
People who are ok with the lack of stalks are those who never use blinkers when exiting roundabouts.
Autopilot telling you to keep your hands on the steering wheel the moment you engage it is annoying. Are we that dumb ?
And now more phantom braking than ever and so many fake collision warnings ! 🤦♂️
Tesla regresses..
I use blickers everything and I have really no issue with the missing stalks...
I don't even buy a Tesla because it doesn't have stalks.
Well, I was at first very negative about the blinkers, but after 4 test drives, I must say I can now use the buttons even when exiting roundabouts. Still, it is a much more difficult manipulation than actioning a fixed stalk. Like it is much less efficient to read the speedo on the central display vs a heads-up display.
Driving my Highlander and always using my indicators. Anyone complaining about it just can't adapt.
@@Raynegade87couldn’t agree more
Just handed a Model 3 back to the lease company and now have a 2015 MS with AP1….vastly better experience by a mile! I get the usual steering nag but far less than the M3, It uses no internal camera so no whinging there, phantom brakes have disappeared and summon works…slow but it works as does auto park.
I tried a M3 minus the stalks and I’m not a fan. I know stalks cost money but familiarity for those moving to EV’s is important.
I literally came here after 10 mins ago I just phantomed breaked. It's annoying ! I've been a heavy autopilot user for about a year now, and within the past few months i have noticed a significant rise in phantom breaking when I use autopilot. It's annoying and can be dangerous especially on highways.
Removing stalks,
Removing ultrasonic sensors,
Removing rain sensors,
Ruling out lidar,
Who could have made these questionable decisions 😂
Seriously though, at some point you have to wonder if they are being forced to engineer with one arm tied behind their back.
It's the genious Elon. A little known fact, he began all this dumb things when he bought himself in during Teslas early days. He immediatly started interfering, demanding they installed a gear stick in the Tesla Roadster, in a freakin electric car without any gears. He wanted it because "everyone likes to shift gears in a fast car"
Evidently, it is Musk. Tesla will be free when this nut will go away. After all, Musk is getting old and stupid very fast.
Removing car...
I don't like to give negative feedback, especially about a car brand that is so special in our time. However, you are absolutely right to make this video. I had a Model 3 Performance (December 2019) for 4 ½ years, and the most frustrating aspect was the software. It made me feel like an absolute fool. Even car brands with worse software don't make you feel this way. It's a real pity that this brand doesn’t prioritize customer experience in its improvements. It could have been the iPhone of cars. After 4 ½ years, this was the reason I decided not to buy Tesla again, even though what they achieve and do is truly special.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned that autopilot also has major isssues with off-ramps where it will swerve off then back on! This is my experience in Australia. Tesla please enable dumb cruise control!
I prefer ACC with a radar. If the car in front brake the car will brake if I don’t do it in time. Camera = phantom breaking it seems like. Complicated stuff suck 😊
Come to the Uk. A lot of idiots not using the blinkers at all. They think that you should know where they are going. Madnes mate.
My phantom braking has gotten worse. I thought it was just in Autopilot, but no, I turn on TACC and it phantom brakes also. It is totally out of control. So bad that I have gotten to the point I won't use it. It is not safe. That is a huge problem when you are afraid to use even the basic cruise control. I literally have to keep my foot in the Tesla. It enters a construction zone it loses it's mind. A car pulls up on the side of the road to wait to enter and it phantom brakes. The car thinks you are going to hit the car on the side of the road. It really is not safe and leaves you constantly on edge. I have a section of road right now with safety cones for constructions and it will phantom brake 3 or 4 times though that section. On roads I don't know what AP is going to do I am frankly not cool using AP. Phantom brake anxiety is real.
Vision throws errors saying it can't see. The car is clean and the cameras are clear. Try parking in tight spots and anything that is below bumper level it is blind. Someone is going to use ASS soon enough and something or a car is going to get damaged because vision cannot see low to the ground things. My garage is a obstacle course and it can't see half the stuff near where I park. I have to be very careful parking.
Autowipers and auto headlights are embarrassing. I have to keep turning them off.
AP in the states it does not adjust the speed when the speed limit changes. And it does not read speed limit signs. I would prefer that the car can and does read those signs and adjust the speed. Give me the option, but nope AP just bitches that I am exceeding the speed setting becuase the speed limit changed.
Driving in town and someone decides to turn off of the road in front of you. You see it, you slow down so that the car has time to turn and get off the road. TESLA is SCREAMING - YOUR GONNA DIE! FFS Other people in the car are like WTF is going on? Passengers have anxiety riding in the Tesla.
My wife HATES riding in the Tesla. HATES IT! She would rather drive her old beater than to put up with the Tesla. I have to admit I am reaching the point I don't like to drive the Tesla too. There are good things about the Tesla, but you have to put up with too much crap now.
Haptic controls deserve no place in a car. The other manufacturers are on the wrong path with those garbage controls.
Tesla removed the stalks and that was a hard pass. That is why I bought the pre-refresh.
Tesla service centers are not close to everyone. I had to make an appointment and it was almost a month out. Worse yet they refused to send a mobile service tech out. I live 159 miles one way from the service center. I messaged them and finally 2 days before my service appointment where I had to request a day off from work for the appointment and they cancelled the appointment and set it up as a mobile appointment. I am thankful to get the mobile appointment, but why did we wait for almost a month before changing it? Not living close to a service center is a serious problem. Once this car is out of warranty and if I need something done I have to take a 318 mile road trip just to get the car looked at? This is very bad. Make sure you live close to a service center if you are going to get a Tesla or make sure it is a new car under warranty. But expect to WAIT to get an appointment. I get to see my mobile service on Monday. We will see if I get any push back for their poor quality control or if I get to eat the repair costs.
I feel a lot like you after 1 1/2 years in our tesla. I HATE there are no sensors. Especially rain, it's so f... bad. I am always havin a foot ready on the speeder pedal. I'm more ready to push that, than the brake. And you feel like the car knows better than you. Speed limits that it constantly reads wrong. So really don't think I will choose Tesla next time.
I remember arguing with you ages ago that phantom braking is dangerous (it is) and you kept saying it isn’t. It absolutely is dangerous! It has been bad since I got my Model 3 in 2019, and it’s no better now.
It's only dangerous if car behind is leas than 3 seconds behind...
@@bjornnyland of course, which happens all the time. It’s their fault, they should not do it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t dangerous when the car in front of them suddenly brakes. *Both* things are dangerous.
@@bjornnyland but yes I agree with your statement, it’s not dangerous when someone isn’t too close, but when they are, it is.
Do the PB happen if you do not use "cruise control" or "auto steering?
Great video, Bjørn. I agree. My 2020 Model 3 was better a few years ago when it relied on the radar, now it phantom brakes more often. Speed sign recognition also needs to be improved. But i still love my car though.
You forgot to complain about 2 more things:
1. If You break and You want to show the cars behind by turning on the hazard blink, You need to look up into the roof and find the almost hidden hazard button. This is unsafe in the situation where You want to avoid bumping into the car in front of You.
2. When You suddenly run i to fog, and want to turn on the fog light, You need to look away from the road and find the fog light button in some submenu. This is very unsafe in the situation. So where is the fysical buttons, You rarely need in dangerous situationens.
Lastly: I really enjoyed this video. Thanks 😊
and when there is fog, autopilot doesn't work and you need to control speed without having a speed indication in front of you.
I was really considering buying a model 3 but the constant beeping and shouting makes me crazy...also me driving through 14 roundabouts everyday is just not doable without stalks. These things would make me angry every day.
1. Removing stalks is a very poor decision. Renting a Highland would be a nightmare. Also having a 2nd different car, or a work car with stalks would be a nightmare to adjust everytime.
2. Phantom braking is dangerous. A 2010 Audi with adaptive cruise control works without phantom braking but a car 14 years newer has this issue. Just unnaceptable.
3. If you can't make autowipres work, just leave it on classic, I can turn on the wipers.
Why add features that are worse than using manual controls?
I'm also done with Teslas, I just sold the first one and soon selling the second. The cars are getting more annoying by the day with their beeps, charging in all NMC based Teslas really suck and Elon has gone batshit insane. He's lucky to stay out of jail.
One constant beeping that really drives me mad in new Teslas is the lane departure detection and it cannot even be disabled properly. You can't even drive according to the local laws and the car has to be exactly in the lane center for it to stay silent. I also stopped using the autopilot entirely already two years ago because of the non-working speed limit detection.
The first one was replaced by EQE 350+. Awesome set of wheels, just a bit low and the trunk could be bigger.
The cabin camera nagging, is something Tesla had to implement after complaints from the NHTSA.
Yeah sadly we got affected from that in europe as well :/
I’m so happy to drive ID7, nothing of this bugs occurs😊
Yeah, but many others you don’t find at a Tesla. There is no perfect car, everyone has his advantages and disadvantages, at least with Tesla you can still hope it will be fixed via OTA like many other issues to. But yes, it is far to long to fix phantom braking and speed behavior
Looking at this video, I wonder if the new Model 3 is worse than the older models. My '23 Model Y does not phantom brake this consistenly. Maybe 1 out of 10 cases due to oncoming trucks, and a bit worse in low light or rain. The usual places near Hamar, Gran are of course really bad. When a lane merges without any white lines, the car tend to track to the right. Anyway, great that the influencers bring this up.
Depends on your region where you drive, my daily routes in Germany have zero phantom breakings. But if I drive to one specific customer it always happens at the same spot cause of wrong map data
got a 3 2021, there are roads and highways where it consistently phantom breaks, really feels like wrong map data at times, like dropping to a from 120 to 60-40 speedlimit on the highway. same problem with beeping during the drive for no visible issues. also driving in a construction lane over exit-lanes the car ALWAYS tries to steer between exit and the construction lane - literally a killer car.
I completely agree about autopilot strikes. How dare a car In ought remove features I paid for? If AP is "safer than a human" as is claimed, why disengage and deny use of it, ever? It's bullshit.
Could it be a hardware issue?
I have a MYLR sep 22. In the first 6 months I had some phantom breaking issues, specially when new patches on the road or when the sun was dawning in front.
However I haven’t have those issues in the last two years. I don’t use Tesla vision.
I have '21 Model 3 LR. Major annoyances are ONLY (a) the cabin camera nag (covered with a business card!) and (b) the "auto" wipers, which are completely hopeless - even worse, it constantly resets to auto wipe as soon as selecting AP. Wiping dry screens, with smeared bugs etc. is dangerous, and very annoying.
Phantom Braking is really bad on my Model 3 Highland Performance. It just brakes and decelerates randomly all the time. Would love to have a standard cruise control without any adaptive sheeeeeeeet. Pretty annoying and sometimes quite dangerous imo.
Also, I can't get my head around how they manage to drive fully autonomous through LA or San Francisco but don't get the basic sheeeeeeeeeeet right here in Europe. Otherwise, it is a great car and I really enjoy driving it (mostly without cruise control now).
This is why I am still on the 2022.12.3.1 version. 🙂 No nagging, 150km/h AP, no spying camera, no 1 week penalty box after 5 strikes-I just leave the car and go back driving again. No speed warning. I still use the radar and I have almost zero phantom breaking-very rare and mild.
That's like buying an iPhone and never updating it.. 🙄
You are my hero. Wish I would’ve done this 😭. I liked Ap a lot more when it was dumber and more reliable 😢. Sure, it’s better in some sense, but I miss the good “old” days.
@@TheMadmax0609 No. it’s like buying an iPhone and having a ready working iOS and not a beta test one 😆
@@Entrepreneuri some people are easily satisfied.. If everyone in the world thought like you we wouldn't advance at all. 😘
@@TheMadmax0609you should never update your iPhone after it’s 2 years old or the programmed obsolescence will kick in!
Phantom Braking is partly a consequence of not having front radar. All it has is video. At the very least Tesla and the other manufacturers should make it easy to report mistakes. Without that: they won't get better
Not true.
FSD works just fine with camera only.
Tesla puts 99% of the effort in FSD.
Eventually Autopilot will use the same stack as FSD.
The current Autopilot is horrendous.
Borderline unusable on my roads.
Original teslas had LiDAR. Still phantom braking. Camera based is always going to be rubbish with fog/rain/dirty roads etc. I wont even use my autopilot as it cant handle old fashioned UK A roads like the A1 near Grantham (with the cut across scary lanes). Buttock clenching stuff, to the point that I’m not ‘allowed’ to use it by my wife anymore. Plus I don’t like the removal of the stalks. Even if you ‘get used to it’ it makes swapping between vehicles ‘fun’. I don’t mind getting used to stuff, but why stalks? It’s turning into ‘the car built for Homer’.
@@fittetube bats don't crash in fog. Bear that in mind. Personally, I'm a pro LIDAR person. However, if there is one positive thing you can say about camera only - it is that the software developer team can focus on getting that into a good state as they possibly can before worrying about the other inputs. It also means all of the capacity in the vehicle is focused on image recognition, interpretation and planning what to do. LIDAR is an incredibly complicated source of data as you don't just get image you get depth as well. It takes a lot of compute to interpret. But Volvo, Polestar and I believe Mercedes are starting to offer it on vehicles. Expensive vehicles.
Not true, I had phantom braking with the radar long before I got Vision only.
@@jsjs6751same for me. But I drove with vision only for 60.000 km and have the feeling that less phantom breaking then my previous Tesla M3
Man this is insane.. Thanks for the Video uncle Bjorn. I've been thinking about the new M3. but now..
Driving Highland for a year, my firat tesla in Europe. You are right on spot with all stupid downgrades. I agree 100% with you Byorn. Other then mentioned downgrades all other upgrades are great. Why change something that was already working great. Make Tesla great again!!!
Are there any efficient alternatives to a model 3? I have test driven a model 3 highland and also experienced phantom braking and the broken cruise control activation button. Also I think I would miss stalks for wipers and high beams for manual override in certain situations. Speed sign recognition did not work at all and voice control was much worse than Apple CarPlay which I use in my current car.
Thank you Bjørn for the video, I was already planning for a M3 LRRW for January 2025, I think I will remain with my 190 HP 4WD diesel ICE with no nonsense and useful radar cruise control and lane assist - all with sensors etc. and with 1000+ km range - and no OTA updates which could change my nice car into an annoying piece of… I get unhappy when I get sudden warning if my wipers fluid run out, would return the car if it would do so much unnecessary beeping and annoyance as the car Bjørn is making video about. Not to mention the phantom breaking and all the other stupid stuff.
Phantom braking isn’t just annoying but downright dangerous, in some cases causing multi car collisions
Always keep safe distance to car in front.
@@bjornnyland since this occurs during autopilot/ FSD, then it should be set at least 3 cars distance?
@@dwnrange7812 Is it really that frequent in FSD?
FSD is only available in the US/Canada and is not the same as the ancient Autopilot.
@@jsjs6751 good question. I assumed Autopilot had the same underlying hardware and computation but ‘detuned’ from most of the FSD functions. Is this not the case?
@dwnrange7812 I believe the regular Autopilot got "stuck" a few years back.
HW has evolved over the years.
They still do this? Lol My model 3 in 2019 had phantom breaking but I cant believe they still do it. My Kia Niro EV never does this at all.
Wise man, very fair and balanced views
this car is life-threatening
It's literally insane to move every control in a car to interfaces that require you to look away from the road to know what you're pressing. Cancel Teslas!
I actually almost never use the screen controls when driving my Tesla. Most things are on automatic and work well, cruse control, music volume and adjusting wiper speed is done with the scroll wheels on the steering wheel, and navigation usually automatically switches between home and work, and any other destinations I do by voice command (and the voice command button is on the steering wheel). But when the car is driving itself, which it is in my case for more than 90% of the time, it's no problem to use the screen screen, the 2024 screen is also very easy to read, even in sunny weather.
Once you’ve set up all the basics you’re good to go. I go months without touching the screen.
Tesla developers should listen to uncle Bjørn I think. Apart from that the slowdowns before curves are too heavy since they introduced TeslaVision.
It’s also very very annoying. Until TeslaVision came there were not these unneeded slowdowns.
Tesla either please hurry up with those EU regulations or update the source code of this overaged Autopilot Stack for EUROPE
That was not caused by vision, EU forced tesla to reduce the max side G force on steering inputs. It will even show a message saying "steering limited" which was caused by that law. In the same update they also had to remove the automatic highway switching now you need to explicit activate the lane change so you miss your exist...
@@kenion2166why does EU make everything bad.
@@nallebrean EU regulations are driven by EU manufactures, when Tesla had Navigate on Autopilot most cars didn't even had auto steering at all ;)
What about adjusting the following distance to the lower setting? Could that be a problem if you have it on the highest setting?
The issue with phantom break is related to missing radar. Our car with radar doesn't phantom break almost at all. Today I tested model 3 it kt phantom brakes just because truck passes on other lane
I have a Model Y, 2022 and it doesn't phantom brake at all! And Autopilot does not beep when I turn it on! I have FSD, maybe that is the difference?
I have a 22 MYP, it phantom brakes all the time. AP... FSD at least once per drive.
Tesla, stop relying on cameras for your automated systems. We keep being told that cameras are improving, so we don't need radar or lidar. I love the concept, but like politicians, they make promises they never deliver on. Give us sensors, and when you perfect camera technology in about 2034, then do it.
Alright tell me one car with sensors you can buy which drives itself through the cities and highways without touching the steering wheel?
@@kenion2166 Great! But if it Phantom breaks while in use,I don't want it.
My wife wants to replace her Model Y due to the frequent loud alerts. After driving her car a fair bit I tell people it has an Autopanic feature.
You can adjust how early the collision warning triggers. My mum also get constant beeps since she doesn't know how to keep the car centered in the lanes.. Could also be a driving skill issue :D
Everything you say i have experienced!
Phantom braking!
Annoying waring noises all the time!
Phantom wipers!
The S3XY knob/button has solved a lot of these issues for me. Using the button for gear shift under the arm rest and the re engaging of autopilot is great. I’m slowly getting used to the indicators but I live in Portugal so no one else uses them anyway 😂
I agree totally with you!