Hey Bjorn, a Brit living in North Eastern China here! We have a huge number of domestic electric buses in this city, some now pushing a decade old, and it's really cold in the winter. No surprise they work just fine! People will believe whatever nonsense they want to believe! Keep up the good work and great to see you enjoying time in Asia with your family!
The buses in Hammefest all have fossile fuel heaters for the coldest days. Oslo is retrofitting biodiesel fuel heaters in their buses, but does not expect to be finished with all buses until march 2025. Analysis points towards an excessive amount of battery power (up to 50%) being used for heating on the really cold days as the buses of course very frequently opens the doors, letting the heat out. Sources: Aftenposten, Teknisk ukeblad
@gokkiyoutube Nope. Buses were ordered without, and retrofitting was difficult / impossible. Further, on really cold days (-20c) or more heatpumps aren't that effective. Retrofitted biodiesel burners works very well in those temperatures, and is suggested to be used only in extreme temperatures. Oslo has in reality only 3 months per year where temperatures regularily dips below -10c
In finland at the Helsinki area electric busses have just webasto style diesel heaters, and then a lot of them are articulated BYD and someone's master idea has been that only pulling / pushing axel is rear one so they are always sideways ones there's any slippery condition. @@gokkiyoutube
Helsinki demands a certain percentage of the city buses are electric, it's over fifty percent at least. They seem to work fine, but the "accordion" buses are really problematic when the roads are slippery. They bought two wheel drive versions (because they're cheaper) and that means that the last axle - the "trailer" - is pushing the whole bus. They fold like Swiss army knifes 🙈
Part of the range lost in wintertime is due to excessive temperature inside the car. Should be around 15-18 °C. That will fit your outdoor clothing that you should always wear in case of an emergency or crash. Edit: Note: Always make sure the seat belt is tightened through puffy jackets and the lower strap is on the hip bone. Open jacket if needed.
My understanding is that the problem with some RWD articulated electric buses is that they are driven by the rear-most axle, the one after the articulation joint. So the end result is basically the effect of having a motor-driven "trailer" that pushes the truck that is attached onto the front of it, exerting the pushing force through the articulation joint. This results in much jack-knifing in slippery conditions, where the back-most part of the bus pushes the bus into a twist.
this kind of configuration is most efficent for countries that does not get snow. at least now there are more european brands that come with driving unit on the rear most axle and the middle axle. MAN buses that Oslo have been getting have this 4WD system. unsure about mercedes but i know Volvo has this option aswell.
Bjørn, in Bodø, the electric buses running around the city no longer stops going up Bratten during winter because they can’t start uphill as the older buses. Not sure what tires they use
In Östersund, in the north of Sweden, the municipality has switched to electric buses (Mercedes eCitaro). Works just fine. Even in cold temperatures, -20 degrees celcius.
Highland at Christmas. The bus winter issues are like a lot of things EV at the moment: a) Blown out of proportion by the fossil media and b) totally avoidable in the first place. Off topic: Why are on some trucks you overtake the right rear door on the container is open?
Presumably to show that they are empty, to deter break ins? We see the same in the UK - empty lorries leave their doors open so no-one tries to break in.
@philw4625 Thailand has a very different type of crime, and truck drivers rarely stop to rest. If I were to take a guess based on experience driving there, I'd say door's open in order to not get flagged down for police or customs inspection. Instead of queueing up with all the other trucks at one of the frequent road blocks, an officer can just look in the back and radio his colleague to wave the driver through.
There is a chain system that you can get that lowers a swinging chain when needed for traction but otherwise retracts. No putting them on or off, it essentially just swivels in a circle that slides under the rear wheels.
IIRC, in Boston they purchased articulated buses with only rear axle drive many years ago (20?). They all jackknifed in the streets in the snow. Boston pulled all artics out of service on snow days after that. Oslo needs to do the same. Perhaps sell their artics to a warmer location, and replace with standard 12 meter buses.
Same thing happened in Ottawa, maybe 30 years ago. They purchased two types of articulated buses, one mid-motor, one rear-motor. The rear-motor buses jacknifed during heavy snow storms.
@@netwilk You still hear about problems , but only on certain routes on the worst days. Those are also the days that schools are closed and many people work from home, so it's manageable.
Interesting about the Oslo buses and their overnight preheating! I bought a pretty cheap, boring level 2 charger for my garage, and it certainly works, but I did notice that when my car finishes charging but is still plugged in, it gets “dropped” by the EVSE and no longer thinks it has juice available. I didn’t realize it was a protocol issue, dang! Fortunately our climate is not that cold, so I don’t depend on the preheat-while-still-plugged-in function, but it’s slightly irritating to know I could have a better experience.
Another great video, Bjørn! I really enjoyed this one-especially the idea of expanding your EV content beyond just car testing. It's so important to fact-check news articles and address myths like the EV bus problems in Oslo. As you mentioned, Oslo is the capital of electric vehicles, so whatever happens there tends to make headlines. I appreciate you taking the time to review and clarify these topics. Also, I’m starting to wonder if I should keep a counter for your funny comments like “sending data to China” or “do that on the autobahn.” Keep up the good work! 😄
Brakar busses have biofuel to heat up the bus, but fully electric bus with long range, right tyres with snow and mountain symbol on it and using proper winter tyres. They even driving from Åmot (Øvre Eiker) to Eggedal and Haglebu with it and back total distance 154,6 km with the return and they can to the same driving 2x before thinking about recharging. They not using articulated bus at all and have RWD and FWD and autochains with one for snow and one for ice just push on the buttom and that starts automatic.Brakar using Volvo Electric bussses. All area in Drammen they using fully electric bus without any issues. They have only issues with the Diesel and have phase out diesel busses and that runs now only in Ringerike and are extra bus under events in Drammaen area like Elvefestivalen and Ski events. Oslo using only All Seasons tyres. They have electric bus from Polaris (Made in Poland) and BYD (Made in China) and other brands. They have no heating from diesel/biofuel like they do in Buskerud with operator Brakar. Then Brakar wents for electric they ask the drivers and asking they as driving electric cars even private to test bus before they set up the "anbud" tender. All drivers says articulated buses not working in Norway unless they have motors on all axles and all drivers have right driving licenses. I'm not 100% updated what going on in Brakar for this moment, but I seen many single busses even travel to Bærum from Drammen on highway last seen today. Brakar think I do the right thing to have phantograph ultra fast charing and Type 2 with 22 kW and ordinary CCS. And chargercables is allways connected and can run heating before unplug also straight from the plug without using diesel/biodiesel at all. They have battery heating on the bus to keep the battery warm also, that the reason they can travel far distances.
oh believe it. Cheapest tires that get the snowflake sign, that's what they got. It's arguable if those tires should qualify for the "winter" category, but this is yet another issue
Pre-heating usually isn't too bad. Even in -10c here it only used around 8% of the bus battery. The problem is every time you stop and open the doors it needs to heat it back up again and that means the heater is using similar power to pre-heating all the time the bus is working. It completely eats the battery in the winter and anything below around -5c makes it real bad. Of course the answer is charge it more often or use it on shorter routes. As for getting stuck in the snow - that is simply tyres vs road. If its covered in snow and you can't fit chains because the floor is too low then you rely on the tyres and if they can't do it you're using the wrong vehicle.
S3XY buttons don't work 100% with the wipers anymore, because the car tries to put them on auto every time autopilot is engaged. Sometimes it takes a few ms too long for the commander to switch them back off again and a wipe goes off.
Lots of electric buses being introduced in UK cities now so will be interesting to compare. Low temperatures will not be so much of a problem at least and some routes will use bio diesel for a while longer.
"being introduced in UK cities" ... well, yes, but there have been electric buses in UK for a few years now so we would know if was going to be an issue. There are even inter-city buses in Scotland which have been through a few winters (ember.to) e.g. Edinburgh - Perth - Dundee - Aberdeen.
Most busses in Oslo are from Solaris. This winter all the drive wheels have been replaced with dubbed tires. Does not help in snowy conditions, only in icy:)
You mean studded tires. And depending on how bad the original winter tires were that can certainly help in snow as well, though I agree studded tires are not better in snow than proper nordic/extreme studless winter tires.
As far as I can see, Solaris mainly run outside zone 1 and don't cause too many problems. In Oslo itself, I mostly see Chinese designs and they mainly fail to pull away from the bus stops. Honestly, it's ridiculous. My wife has 3km commute to work. Last winter all buses were cancelled 3 times and she was late to work more than 20 times.
Could the town you couldn’t remember the name of be Honningsvag? It’s more like a village, but a very beautiful place and the public buses there don’t seem to have many problems getting to North Cape even in the depths of winter.
In my experience in Finland the drivers dont know how to get moving. They give too much gas and basically polish the bus stops. The traction control also seems bad, almost like it is just on off hydraulics.
@erwingiger9735 Machen die Trucker in Europa auch. So wird den Kontrollorganen zb. BALM oder Polizei angezeigt das der LKW leer ist. In Europa dürfen keine Türen geöffnet sein während der Fahrt. Dann ist der LKW unzulässig bereit. Deshalb machen es nur LKW die Schüttgüter transportieren. Dort wird dann einen kleine Klappe geöffnet, nicht die ganze Tür.
just to get air ventilation because in Thailand we have hot and humid weather. The hot and damp condition in a closed container is a good incubator of germs either its true of false im not sure but the drivers believe that.
Hey Björn, the E for the busdrivers permit is only for the Trailers more than 3,5 tons, so it's hasn't anything to do with the propulsion, even if it's electric or dinausaur juice.
As far as I know 4wd vs 2wd etc is not causing any limitations for the driver license D . Added weight caused by 4wd might . Official info do last year was that the original winner of the bid was Unibuss, and the busses had all wheel drive. But when Ruter got to know that a specific Chinese company was delivering parts, they canceled and contract went to Polaris, but Polaris could not provide all wheel drive ...
@@fixandtests any news about this topic? I also couldn't find anything confirming about special category only because of firehjulsdrift. SV website don't mention it.
Do the bus companies have enough chargers to allow cabin preheating for buses ready to.start their.shift? ICE buses most likely have all their weight over rear driven wheels. Maybe the EV articulated buses have their batteries on the front part of the articulated bus with little weight over driven wheels. I wonder if RWD EV busses have a limited slip diff?
What can they do? First they could either get some better charging equipment or send someone to the depot to plug in the busses again after about 20 min of preheating. Second they should give their drivers a training how to handle winter conditions and how to put on the chains. I mean it is in their best interest not to have busses stranded and in the drivers interest not to get tickets from police, right? As far as I know you can get a ticket if you don't put on chains when needed as a driver of a vehicle with a maximum weight above 3.5 t in Norway. Nothing can replace training to avoid busses getting stuck, or even worse things like the bus accident that just happened on E10 near Hadsel.
When i took Truck license last year in Norway i was with a couple of bus drivers aswell in some of the classes where we would learn how to operate in winter and we practiced putting on snowchains on trucks and buses. problem isn't they cant put on snow chains because i see regular buses with snowchains on sometimes. the problems are with the citybuses and articulated citybuses. by eu regulation they seem to be hight restricted so manufacturer have lowered these buses as much as possible and are therefore not enough room to have chains on as it would, A: not be enough room to put them on and B: they wouldn't even fit and result in damageing the bus or snapping the chains. the fix would be different regulation for countries that have snow to allow these buses to able to raise high enough to make room for easy access to put on snowchains
800v will always be an advantage because for whatever power you want to transfer you need less amps - or for the same amps you get more power. Since all chargers are current limited the higher voltage only allows more power transfer.
We have ev buses and they're great so far. The heating does use a lot of power, and we haven't got pre heating set up probably for a similar reason with the chargers but im not sure. I haven't driven them through heavy snow yet, but my experience with diesel buses is that they are better than most cars as they have 4 wheels on thr rear axel with a lot of grip.
Wishing a more precise information about Oslo EV buses winter problem. Maybe some points to improve: don't buy articulated buses or change the crazy regulations driver licence. All buses should be all wheel drive (security first). Preheating air ? Crazy, better to preheat liquid for the battery.
Def sort out hardware charging… that glitch should just be a software issue from the CPO. And that steering wheel nag was improved also in Europe/UK a couple of software updates ago during daylight as long as inside camera not blocked and noticed that you are looking ahead and hands “holding” steering wheel”. You can try it by having hand around wheel without actually touching it… it will not nag at all for ages unless you start looking around.
To stay in Norway in wither its not for me to...just arrive from Philippines, Ev start to roll out also ther, but in small numbers. After 8th Tesla a swap it to vw Id7 gtx, its a better car to drive. Only minus is the infotainment system is clumsy and the app its not the best... Happy new year Bjørn enjoy your stay in Thailand.
And what idiot thought a bus-tire combination that didn't allow chains would be a good idea in Norway???? I'd never do that with my own car. Even in NYC the busses have chains in the snow.
So rwd busses with huge battery adding weight to dragging wheels is bad during icy winter. Who would have known. I guess they also have bad traction control so they spin just one wheel too. Those busses would require really good and soft winter tyres. Oslo making bad purchases making bad rep for EV. Good job.
Yeah, I still don't understand why cities are pushing battery buses so hard instead of using the well-known and reliable trolleybuses with auxiliary batteries.
@@AprezaRenaldy-- Agreed. Suppose a bus is running in a snow storm? Then there're headlights, heat/defrost, & wipers all running at the same time. Also, a bus can get stuck at a stop. Getting out can require 'rocking' the bus back and forth. Rocking often entails wheelspin. How does all this not deplete the battery more quickly? Having a trolleybus avoids these problems.
It's critically important than transport providers have good service. To get high ridership, you need a system with frequent buses that don't require you to schedule your life around them. The system needs to get you to as many destinations as possible within perhaps 60 minutes, connections included. Systems that work like this are liberating for the rider, because they can go almost anywhere in a reasonable amount of time and save lots of money. The vehicles are only a means to meet that mission, which has incredible environmental benefit no matter the fuel source. In a system with high ridership due to excellent service, the efficiency of even a single fossil-powered bus works because it takes dozens of cars off the road. The best thing for the environment is to stop those dozens of cars from being needed at all. Transport agencies should keep these goals in mind. I'm not worried about the vehicle so much as the vehicle which undermines service. I'm also not worried about agencies making bad choices buying fossil transport vehicles, if it means that more people ride. Besides, if we were to consider corporate fleets, passenger car owners, and institutional buyers, which fleets have proportionally the most zero tailpipe emission vehicles already? In most places, I guarantee it's the government fleets. We can complain about the media fear mongering around BEV vehicles; but this kind of story is doubly bad for the transport provider, because it gives the public permission to dismiss both BEVs as a technology as well as their "useless" public transport provider. And the joke is on all of us, because we live in a shared environment built with our public money that we are destroying by driving around so much.
They live in Norway ... they know about winter driving ... unfortunately they can't insist that their bus is fitted with better tyres if the bus company wants to avoid the expense.
I live in a country that drives on the left, when I go to Europe or the USA I rent a car with the steering wheel on the left to suit driving in the wrong side of the road, not a problem and I don’t feel unsafe at all - but I do wish that the USA would fix their traffic lights that hang in the sky and put them in the right place to see them…….. and I always get hooted at for not turning right on a red light where it is allowed because it’s alien to me.
Last winter it was not only busses that had problems on the snow, a huge lot of private cars as well. That's what you get when the municipality cheap out on removing snow from the roads.
However, purchasing buses with traction on additional axles/wheels should be much easier and more economical than purchasing it on a bus powered by a combustion motor.
The problem is that the ones that orders the electric buses are stupid. Happened in Sweden also but not anymore. In Sweden they seems to be another way to plan for the buses all year around. My company are starting with electric buses. We have 10 of them now and they are configured accordingly with batterys that has the range even in -20 C. They also have some kind of Webasto for warming the inside when it's under 7 C outside and it's totally automatic. In Sweden the length of the buses doesn't matter. D is enough.
I wonder what is the logic of not having any tax from Chinese imports as China is by far the largest exporter of almost everything, so you kill both the chances to build locally and the imports of higher quality products.
A lot of lowfloor city buses does not have room to put on chains. they can't lift the bus high enough to make room because they have been lowered so much to fit the regulation. when i took my truck license test last year, my driving examiner from the Norwegian road athority went on a big angry rant about how horrible these buses were because of the problems with not being able to put on chains. when the buses were being retired like 10 years later the chains would be shiny like they were new. if you see trucks after one winter the chains are rusty. And he wanted all articulated bus drivers to have DE license to operate those buses. the normal buses have enough room to put on chains so they dont have trouble in the winter, its only the citybuses and articulated that has this problem The MAN, Volvo and other european articulated buses have driving axle on both the rear most axle and the middle axle. making them better at moving about in the winter. Also for the DE license it would be maybe 14 extra hours and about 17000kr to expand from D to DE. that's what it was for trucks from C to CE when i took it last year but total cost of both C and CE came at around 100000kr
I still don’t understand why larger cities are pushing battery-powered buses so hard. There’s already a technology designed to electrify city buses: the trolleybus. In urban environments, it’s completely unnecessary to operate buses with hundreds of kWh of battery capacity since overhead wire systems can be easily implemented. These trolleybuses can also be equipped with auxiliary batteries, allowing them to travel 10-20 km without overhead wires, whether on planned sections or during detours. Moreover, with trolleybuses, electric heating doesn’t reduce range because their effective range is technically unlimited (batteries are typically oversized for auxiliary sections, and these segments usually don’t exceed 10 km or 30-45 minutes). On the other hand, battery buses often rely on oil heaters for heating, which are neither efficient nor environmentally friendly. Battery-powered buses also require a massive charging infrastructure, which is costly. That money could instead be used to build an overhead wire system for trolleybuses. Oslo might be a unique case due to its temperature conditions, but across Europe, I don’t understand the obsession with battery buses. A trolleybus with auxiliary batteries is superior in every way, especially for urban routes where buses run frequently, and even for smaller cities with populations of 20-25,000, it could be a viable option.
I Wonder why truckers drive with conteiner door open!? Crazy!!
17 дней назад
Well, its not just EV buses. We have had Soooo. Many. Issues. With our LNG buses here my town in Sweden, for more than 10 years. Having to reboot the buses to get the doors working etc.
Unfortunately it isn't. It has a large downloaded knowledge file, what's called an "AI Model". The cars' computer is not powerful enough to do any machine learning in order to modify the file.
Mht bussene i Oslo som satt fast på flatmark... Det som var rart husker jeg var at det kun var "tilhengeren" som spant. Hjulende på den aller bakerste akslingen, bak leddet i leddbussene. Burde ikke driften i det minste være på bakhjulene (foran leddet)? Da kunne man vel fortsatt kjøre med D-sertifikat?
In Malaysia atm, same thing with the driving, slow take off, right lane hoggers and massive speed difference b/w slowest and fastest vehicles on the road
The major reason for this is: If you look at the bus, you can't use the snow chains. The wheel arches isn't high enough, and you can't lift up the wheels. So, this isn't a question of "the drivers can't put on snow chains". The snow chains would ruin the bus. And, in Oslo you have a tax on spiked tires. So, the buses don't use them.
17 дней назад+1
Ive never heard about using snow chains in buses. Otoh I do live in a very flat part of Sweden.
For trucks and buses in Norway, in the winter, you must have 3 snow chains. 1 for the front wheels, and 2 for the drive wheels. If it's a boggy, you only put it on one. A trailer needs 5. This is a part of the teoreticaly exam, and the practical. All my children have C licences. And, all gave finished the CE teoreticaly exam. 2 are planing on going for the bus (D) licence. To help them I have taken C, CE, D teoretical exams. So, I know this. The problem is always the idiots that buy trains, trams, and buses in the summer, from countries without snow. The problem in Oslo is the tax on spiked tires, too. To avoid this, they use winter tires. They are great, until you get real snow. Oslo, is also saving money on the removal of snow. This is about the respons times. Lower respons times, thus cheaper... Of course they promised better snow removal, when they put taxes on spiked tires......
@ak5659 looks like they don't in China. The CEO that bought them isn't working there any more. But, they haven't fixed the buses. Next week it's forcasted heavy snow. Expects that there will be major problems then.
Did you see that BYD factory in Brasil got shutdown because of the chinese contractor have abused and used the workers as slaves and held salary payment !! That's how BYD is making cheap car's 😮
36C in Sydney Australia today. Have you got s BYD Shark 6 lined up? I think Australia has a FTA with thailand. Lots of utes sold here come from Thailand. bjorn would fit in perfectly in traffic in australia. Lol
Not sure you should shout any political statement, even more so if it is related to USA. This is a polarizing topic and might not help your channel. Cheers Bjorn!
@bjornnyland well, I was referring to the 'Elon for president' claim at the beginning. Thanks for replying by the way. You are a great content creator and your work is much appreciated 👍
@@PierreVilleneuve88 maybe you were too serious, as we know Elon is immigrant and cant be the president of USA. So as Bjørn said it was not a statement.
Because they understand math, economics and material sciences. Hydrogen is viable only for those who lack the discipline and cognitive skills to study.
IIRC Norway did give hydrogen a good try, with several H2 filling stations available 10-20 years ago. Like Bjørn says “hydrogen sucks,” and this became apparent in Norway, just like it did in California.
I love your car content but your musk jokes are getting harder and harder to swallow. Not to mention how you're dismissing the work of thousands of people that have actually designed and built the cars.
The Tesla board needs to distance Tesla from Musk in order to make Tesla great again. Sales in Europe went down 40% in November compared to same month the year before.
I'm sorry but Elon Musk is showing his true self he wants to be rich and famous he doesn't want to help humanity he wants to help himself. If he wanted to help humanity he would be working to help with mental illness and homelessness and hunger. He proved that he only wants to help himself by buying himself a place in Trump's presidency.
por isso é que muitas empresas na Noruega e Finlândia so conseguem trabalhar com os camiões elétricos no inverno, porque são os únicos a arrancar enquanto os camiões a diesel não pegam com adblue cobgelado a 30minus😅
Your glib joke about Musk is ignorant and grotesquely insensitive. Any more and I will unsubscribe. M. Has many fans but I and very many others are not mindless fans of his bent behaviour. You are a clever guy but there are obviously limits to your intelligence.
Hey Bjorn, a Brit living in North Eastern China here! We have a huge number of domestic electric buses in this city, some now pushing a decade old, and it's really cold in the winter. No surprise they work just fine! People will believe whatever nonsense they want to believe! Keep up the good work and great to see you enjoying time in Asia with your family!
comparing china with Norway is at least disingenuous
@@daniel-ino Why? North eastern China gets really cold! Way colder than Oslo actually!
I used to drive buses and it's down to skill but I guess rather blame the bus ❤ ❤
Whole china uses only EV busses inside cities.
Don't RUclips/Google banned in china?
The buses in Hammefest all have fossile fuel heaters for the coldest days. Oslo is retrofitting biodiesel fuel heaters in their buses, but does not expect to be finished with all buses until march 2025. Analysis points towards an excessive amount of battery power (up to 50%) being used for heating on the really cold days as the buses of course very frequently opens the doors, letting the heat out. Sources: Aftenposten, Teknisk ukeblad
Wait... heat pumps aren't being used?
@gokkiyoutube Nope. Buses were ordered without, and retrofitting was difficult / impossible. Further, on really cold days (-20c) or more heatpumps aren't that effective. Retrofitted biodiesel burners works very well in those temperatures, and is suggested to be used only in extreme temperatures. Oslo has in reality only 3 months per year where temperatures regularily dips below -10c
In finland at the Helsinki area electric busses have just webasto style diesel heaters, and then a lot of them are articulated BYD and someone's master idea has been that only pulling / pushing axel is rear one so they are always sideways ones there's any slippery condition. @@gokkiyoutube
Hammerfest represent
Still can't understand why not everyone just went with what Volvo demo:ed probably more than 10 years ago: Using ethanol heaters for EV buses.
Helsinki demands a certain percentage of the city buses are electric, it's over fifty percent at least. They seem to work fine, but the "accordion" buses are really problematic when the roads are slippery. They bought two wheel drive versions (because they're cheaper) and that means that the last axle - the "trailer" - is pushing the whole bus. They fold like Swiss army knifes 🙈
Part of the range lost in wintertime is due to excessive temperature inside the car.
Should be around 15-18 °C.
That will fit your outdoor clothing that you should always wear in case of an emergency or crash.
Edit: Note: Always make sure the seat belt is tightened through puffy jackets and the lower strap is on the hip bone. Open jacket if needed.
My understanding is that the problem with some RWD articulated electric buses is that they are driven by the rear-most axle, the one after the articulation joint.
So the end result is basically the effect of having a motor-driven "trailer" that pushes the truck that is attached onto the front of it, exerting the pushing force through the articulation joint.
This results in much jack-knifing in slippery conditions, where the back-most part of the bus pushes the bus into a twist.
this kind of configuration is most efficent for countries that does not get snow. at least now there are more european brands that come with driving unit on the rear most axle and the middle axle. MAN buses that Oslo have been getting have this 4WD system. unsure about mercedes but i know Volvo has this option aswell.
That "disc" is a dish for live TV streaming, and it's a TV crew van
The proposition that it is one of Mr Putin’s spy trucks is much more interesting. 😆😆😆
Bjørn, in Bodø, the
electric buses running around the city no longer stops going up Bratten during winter because they can’t start uphill as the older buses. Not sure what tires they use
Trucks don't have winter or summer tires. They just have tires.
@@umka7536 In Norway buses have studded tires during winter.
That funny car with the disc on the roof is from the NRK TV License control. Most likely a direct TV transmitter.
In Östersund, in the north of Sweden, the municipality has switched to electric buses (Mercedes eCitaro). Works just fine. Even in cold temperatures, -20 degrees celcius.
Highland at Christmas. The bus winter issues are like a lot of things EV at the moment: a) Blown out of proportion by the fossil media and b) totally avoidable in the first place. Off topic: Why are on some trucks you overtake the right rear door on the container is open?
Presumably to show that they are empty, to deter break ins? We see the same in the UK - empty lorries leave their doors open so no-one tries to break in.
Busdrivers must be replaced with legendary finnish rallydrivers. 😂
@philw4625 Thailand has a very different type of crime, and truck drivers rarely stop to rest. If I were to take a guess based on experience driving there, I'd say door's open in order to not get flagged down for police or customs inspection. Instead of queueing up with all the other trucks at one of the frequent road blocks, an officer can just look in the back and radio his colleague to wave the driver through.
heat?
There is a chain system that you can get that lowers a swinging chain when needed for traction but otherwise retracts. No putting them on or off, it essentially just swivels in a circle that slides under the rear wheels.
IIRC, in Boston they purchased articulated buses with only rear axle drive many years ago (20?). They all jackknifed in the streets in the snow. Boston pulled all artics out of service on snow days after that. Oslo needs to do the same. Perhaps sell their artics to a warmer location, and replace with standard 12 meter buses.
Same thing happened in Ottawa, maybe 30 years ago. They purchased two types of articulated buses, one mid-motor, one rear-motor. The rear-motor buses jacknifed during heavy snow storms.
Those Ottawa busses are still in use and are still a great source of memes on snowy and especially freezing rain days.
@@netwilk You still hear about problems , but only on certain routes on the worst days.
Those are also the days that schools are closed and many people work from home, so it's manageable.
Interesting about the Oslo buses and their overnight preheating! I bought a pretty cheap, boring level 2 charger for my garage, and it certainly works, but I did notice that when my car finishes charging but is still plugged in, it gets “dropped” by the EVSE and no longer thinks it has juice available. I didn’t realize it was a protocol issue, dang! Fortunately our climate is not that cold, so I don’t depend on the preheat-while-still-plugged-in function, but it’s slightly irritating to know I could have a better experience.
Another great video, Bjørn! I really enjoyed this one-especially the idea of expanding your EV content beyond just car testing. It's so important to fact-check news articles and address myths like the EV bus problems in Oslo. As you mentioned, Oslo is the capital of electric vehicles, so whatever happens there tends to make headlines. I appreciate you taking the time to review and clarify these topics.
Also, I’m starting to wonder if I should keep a counter for your funny comments like “sending data to China” or “do that on the autobahn.” Keep up the good work! 😄
Brakar busses have biofuel to heat up the bus, but fully electric bus with long range, right tyres with snow and mountain symbol on it and using proper winter tyres. They even driving from Åmot (Øvre Eiker) to Eggedal and Haglebu with it and back total distance 154,6 km with the return and they can to the same driving 2x before thinking about recharging. They not using articulated bus at all and have RWD and FWD and autochains with one for snow and one for ice just push on the buttom and that starts automatic.Brakar using Volvo Electric bussses.
All area in Drammen they using fully electric bus without any issues. They have only issues with the Diesel and have phase out diesel busses and that runs now only in Ringerike and are extra bus under events in Drammaen area like Elvefestivalen and Ski events.
Oslo using only All Seasons tyres. They have electric bus from Polaris (Made in Poland) and BYD (Made in China) and other brands. They have no heating from diesel/biofuel like they do in Buskerud with operator Brakar.
Then Brakar wents for electric they ask the drivers and asking they as driving electric cars even private to test bus before they set up the "anbud" tender. All drivers says articulated buses not working in Norway unless they have motors on all axles and all drivers have right driving licenses.
I'm not 100% updated what going on in Brakar for this moment, but I seen many single busses even travel to Bærum from Drammen on highway last seen today.
Brakar think I do the right thing to have phantograph ultra fast charing and Type 2 with 22 kW and ordinary CCS. And chargercables is allways connected and can run heating before unplug also straight from the plug without using diesel/biodiesel at all. They have battery heating on the bus to keep the battery warm also, that the reason they can travel far distances.
Find it hard to believe bus contract didn't include proper winter tyres 🤦🏼♀️
oh believe it. Cheapest tires that get the snowflake sign, that's what they got. It's arguable if those tires should qualify for the "winter" category, but this is yet another issue
Pre-heating usually isn't too bad. Even in -10c here it only used around 8% of the bus battery. The problem is every time you stop and open the doors it needs to heat it back up again and that means the heater is using similar power to pre-heating all the time the bus is working. It completely eats the battery in the winter and anything below around -5c makes it real bad.
Of course the answer is charge it more often or use it on shorter routes.
As for getting stuck in the snow - that is simply tyres vs road. If its covered in snow and you can't fit chains because the floor is too low then you rely on the tyres and if they can't do it you're using the wrong vehicle.
automatic chains we have them on all sorts of heavy trucks and buses and work pretty well
S3XY buttons don't work 100% with the wipers anymore, because the car tries to put them on auto every time autopilot is engaged. Sometimes it takes a few ms too long for the commander to switch them back off again and a wipe goes off.
Lots of electric buses being introduced in UK cities now so will be interesting to compare. Low temperatures will not be so much of a problem at least and some routes will use bio diesel for a while longer.
"being introduced in UK cities" ... well, yes, but there have been electric buses in UK for a few years now so we would know if was going to be an issue. There are even inter-city buses in Scotland which have been through a few winters (ember.to) e.g. Edinburgh - Perth - Dundee - Aberdeen.
Most busses in Oslo are from Solaris. This winter all the drive wheels have been replaced with dubbed tires. Does not help in snowy conditions, only in icy:)
You mean studded tires. And depending on how bad the original winter tires were that can certainly help in snow as well, though I agree studded tires are not better in snow than proper nordic/extreme studless winter tires.
As far as I can see, Solaris mainly run outside zone 1 and don't cause too many problems. In Oslo itself, I mostly see Chinese designs and they mainly fail to pull away from the bus stops.
Honestly, it's ridiculous. My wife has 3km commute to work. Last winter all buses were cancelled 3 times and she was late to work more than 20 times.
Maybe he's Swedish. Dubbdäck = piggdekk
@@bjornnyland🦹🏻♂️
The van had mobile satellite dish - mostly used by TV crews :)
Could the town you couldn’t remember the name of be Honningsvag? It’s more like a village, but a very beautiful place and the public buses there don’t seem to have many problems getting to North Cape even in the depths of winter.
Yes
In my experience in Finland the drivers dont know how to get moving. They give too much gas and basically polish the bus stops. The traction control also seems bad, almost like it is just on off hydraulics.
28:18 why do some trucks have opened one door at the back?
@erwingiger9735
Machen die Trucker in Europa auch.
So wird den Kontrollorganen zb. BALM oder Polizei angezeigt das der LKW leer ist.
In Europa dürfen keine Türen geöffnet sein während der Fahrt.
Dann ist der LKW unzulässig bereit.
Deshalb machen es nur LKW die Schüttgüter transportieren.
Dort wird dann einen kleine Klappe geöffnet, nicht die ganze Tür.
To show the container is empty, and therefore prevent thieves from opening them up forcefully and damage the locking mechanism.
just to get air ventilation because in Thailand we have hot and humid weather. The hot and damp condition in a closed container is a good incubator of germs either its true of false im not sure but the drivers believe that.
Hey Björn, the E for the busdrivers permit is only for the Trailers more than 3,5 tons, so it's hasn't anything to do with the propulsion, even if it's electric or dinausaur juice.
It has.
As far as I know 4wd vs 2wd etc is not causing any limitations for the driver license D . Added weight caused by 4wd might . Official info do last year was that the original winner of the bid was Unibuss, and the busses had all wheel drive. But when Ruter got to know that a specific Chinese company was delivering parts, they canceled and contract went to Polaris, but Polaris could not provide all wheel drive ...
@@fixandtests any news about this topic? I also couldn't find anything confirming about special category only because of firehjulsdrift. SV website don't mention it.
Do the bus companies have enough chargers to allow cabin preheating for buses ready to.start their.shift?
ICE buses most likely have all their weight over rear driven wheels.
Maybe the EV articulated buses have their batteries on the front part of the articulated bus with little weight over driven wheels.
I wonder if RWD EV busses have a limited slip diff?
What can they do?
First they could either get some better charging equipment or send someone to the depot to plug in the busses again after about 20 min of preheating.
Second they should give their drivers a training how to handle winter conditions and how to put on the chains. I mean it is in their best interest not to have busses stranded and in the drivers interest not to get tickets from police, right? As far as I know you can get a ticket if you don't put on chains when needed as a driver of a vehicle with a maximum weight above 3.5 t in Norway.
Nothing can replace training to avoid busses getting stuck, or even worse things like the bus accident that just happened on E10 near Hadsel.
When i took Truck license last year in Norway i was with a couple of bus drivers aswell in some of the classes where we would learn how to operate in winter and we practiced putting on snowchains on trucks and buses. problem isn't they cant put on snow chains because i see regular buses with snowchains on sometimes. the problems are with the citybuses and articulated citybuses. by eu regulation they seem to be hight restricted so manufacturer have lowered these buses as much as possible and are therefore not enough room to have chains on as it would,
A: not be enough room to put them on and
B: they wouldn't even fit and result in damageing the bus or snapping the chains.
the fix would be different regulation for countries that have snow to allow these buses to able to raise high enough to make room for easy access to put on snowchains
800v will always be an advantage because for whatever power you want to transfer you need less amps - or for the same amps you get more power.
Since all chargers are current limited the higher voltage only allows more power transfer.
We have ev buses and they're great so far. The heating does use a lot of power, and we haven't got pre heating set up probably for a similar reason with the chargers but im not sure. I haven't driven them through heavy snow yet, but my experience with diesel buses is that they are better than most cars as they have 4 wheels on thr rear axel with a lot of grip.
Wishing a more precise information about Oslo EV buses winter problem. Maybe some points to improve: don't buy articulated buses or change the crazy regulations driver licence. All buses should be all wheel drive (security first). Preheating air ? Crazy, better to preheat liquid for the battery.
The passengers typically sit in (warm) air, not in liquid.
@@drfisheyebattery, no passengers.
thanks boss for this great information
Def sort out hardware charging… that glitch should just be a software issue from the CPO.
And that steering wheel nag was improved also in Europe/UK a couple of software updates ago during daylight as long as inside camera not blocked and noticed that you are looking ahead and hands “holding” steering wheel”. You can try it by having hand around wheel without actually touching it… it will not nag at all for ages unless you start looking around.
Why do most of the trucks with containers have the right hand rear door open?
nice weather!
I'm in Korea. It's snowing now.
:)
To stay in Norway in wither its not for me to...just arrive from Philippines, Ev start to roll out also ther, but in small numbers. After 8th Tesla a swap it to vw Id7 gtx, its a better car to drive. Only minus is the infotainment system is clumsy and the app its not the best... Happy new year Bjørn enjoy your stay in Thailand.
Philippines gets v4 supercharger at least. Thailand gets only v3 for some reason.
It actually not possible to fit chains on the oslo buses. Wheel well does not have enough room😂
And what idiot thought a bus-tire combination that didn't allow chains would be a good idea in Norway????
I'd never do that with my own car.
Even in NYC the busses have chains in the snow.
@bjornnyland will you test the Xiaomi in Thailand? Xpeng sounds interesting, looking forward to that test.
So rwd busses with huge battery adding weight to dragging wheels is bad during icy winter. Who would have known. I guess they also have bad traction control so they spin just one wheel too. Those busses would require really good and soft winter tyres.
Oslo making bad purchases making bad rep for EV. Good job.
0:41 is Always 28°-44°c in southeast asia
1:58 Bus can be stuck in snow. And electric trolley bus is better than battery electric bus in city route.
0:41 is Always 28°-44°c in southeast asia
1:58 Bus can be stuck in snow. And electric trolley bus is better than battery electric bus in city route.
Yeah, I still don't understand why cities are pushing battery buses so hard instead of using the well-known and reliable trolleybuses with auxiliary batteries.
@@AprezaRenaldy-- Agreed. Suppose a bus is running in a snow storm? Then there're headlights, heat/defrost, & wipers all running at the same time. Also, a bus can get stuck at a stop. Getting out can require 'rocking' the bus back and forth. Rocking often entails wheelspin. How does all this not deplete the battery more quickly?
Having a trolleybus avoids these problems.
It's critically important than transport providers have good service. To get high ridership, you need a system with frequent buses that don't require you to schedule your life around them. The system needs to get you to as many destinations as possible within perhaps 60 minutes, connections included. Systems that work like this are liberating for the rider, because they can go almost anywhere in a reasonable amount of time and save lots of money.
The vehicles are only a means to meet that mission, which has incredible environmental benefit no matter the fuel source. In a system with high ridership due to excellent service, the efficiency of even a single fossil-powered bus works because it takes dozens of cars off the road. The best thing for the environment is to stop those dozens of cars from being needed at all.
Transport agencies should keep these goals in mind. I'm not worried about the vehicle so much as the vehicle which undermines service. I'm also not worried about agencies making bad choices buying fossil transport vehicles, if it means that more people ride. Besides, if we were to consider corporate fleets, passenger car owners, and institutional buyers, which fleets have proportionally the most zero tailpipe emission vehicles already? In most places, I guarantee it's the government fleets.
We can complain about the media fear mongering around BEV vehicles; but this kind of story is doubly bad for the transport provider, because it gives the public permission to dismiss both BEVs as a technology as well as their "useless" public transport provider. And the joke is on all of us, because we live in a shared environment built with our public money that we are destroying by driving around so much.
@31:35, that van, is a Ghostbusters van 👻
33:52 What's on the top of this van? Looks like a mega Starlink antenna!!!
Dont bus drivers get specific training on driving in winter with the EVs
They live in Norway ... they know about winter driving ... unfortunately they can't insist that their bus is fitted with better tyres if the bus company wants to avoid the expense.
It would be interesting to know what type of tires those buses have.
Maybe cheap all season tires from some unknown brand?
We have a few Sealions in the UK now.
From Busses in Norway to invisible coconuts...nice bait and switch!😅
I'm just amazed that you're confident enough to drive in a left-hand traffic country... I couldn't even cross the street there
🤷♂️
I live in a country that drives on the left, when I go to Europe or the USA I rent a car with the steering wheel on the left to suit driving in the wrong side of the road, not a problem and I don’t feel unsafe at all - but I do wish that the USA would fix their traffic lights that hang in the sky and put them in the right place to see them…….. and I always get hooted at for not turning right on a red light where it is allowed because it’s alien to me.
@@timoliver8940 same here. Not to hard to drive on other side of the road.
Totally agree with your US gripes.lol
What's up with one door open on the (empty?) shipping container trailers?
Simple, to prevent extreme heat buildup inside the container.
@@EggertOlafs I have been told it's for weight station, not need to go if empty. Or something...
Preheating at least one hour sounds a bit long.
Last winter it was not only busses that had problems on the snow, a huge lot of private cars as well. That's what you get when the municipality cheap out on removing snow from the roads.
Well, get good winter tires and drive accordingly in snow.
@@richard--swell, doesn't matter if you have the best tires in the world on a normal car if there is 50cm+ of snow on the road
However, purchasing buses with traction on additional axles/wheels should be much easier and more economical than purchasing it on a bus powered by a combustion motor.
I think Oslo kommune is just bunch of the idiots in this case. They have to go for 2 drive axel busses option no matter what.
The problem is that the ones that orders the electric buses are stupid. Happened in Sweden also but not anymore. In Sweden they seems to be another way to plan for the buses all year around. My company are starting with electric buses. We have 10 of them now and they are configured accordingly with batterys that has the range even in -20 C. They also have some kind of Webasto for warming the inside when it's under 7 C outside and it's totally automatic.
In Sweden the length of the buses doesn't matter. D is enough.
That legislation with the D or DE licenses is so stupid.
I wonder what is the logic of not having any tax from Chinese imports as China is by far the largest exporter of almost everything, so you kill both the chances to build locally and the imports of higher quality products.
A lot of lowfloor city buses does not have room to put on chains. they can't lift the bus high enough to make room because they have been lowered so much to fit the regulation. when i took my truck license test last year, my driving examiner from the Norwegian road athority went on a big angry rant about how horrible these buses were because of the problems with not being able to put on chains. when the buses were being retired like 10 years later the chains would be shiny like they were new. if you see trucks after one winter the chains are rusty. And he wanted all articulated bus drivers to have DE license to operate those buses. the normal buses have enough room to put on chains so they dont have trouble in the winter, its only the citybuses and articulated that has this problem
The MAN, Volvo and other european articulated buses have driving axle on both the rear most axle and the middle axle. making them better at moving about in the winter.
Also for the DE license it would be maybe 14 extra hours and about 17000kr to expand from D to DE. that's what it was for trucks from C to CE when i took it last year but total cost of both C and CE came at around 100000kr
Happy new year 2025!
I still don’t understand why larger cities are pushing battery-powered buses so hard. There’s already a technology designed to electrify city buses: the trolleybus. In urban environments, it’s completely unnecessary to operate buses with hundreds of kWh of battery capacity since overhead wire systems can be easily implemented. These trolleybuses can also be equipped with auxiliary batteries, allowing them to travel 10-20 km without overhead wires, whether on planned sections or during detours.
Moreover, with trolleybuses, electric heating doesn’t reduce range because their effective range is technically unlimited (batteries are typically oversized for auxiliary sections, and these segments usually don’t exceed 10 km or 30-45 minutes). On the other hand, battery buses often rely on oil heaters for heating, which are neither efficient nor environmentally friendly.
Battery-powered buses also require a massive charging infrastructure, which is costly. That money could instead be used to build an overhead wire system for trolleybuses. Oslo might be a unique case due to its temperature conditions, but across Europe, I don’t understand the obsession with battery buses. A trolleybus with auxiliary batteries is superior in every way, especially for urban routes where buses run frequently, and even for smaller cities with populations of 20-25,000, it could be a viable option.
How many EVs are sold in Thailand as a percentage?
I Wonder why truckers drive with conteiner door open!? Crazy!!
Well, its not just EV buses. We have had Soooo. Many. Issues. With our LNG buses here my town in Sweden, for more than 10 years. Having to reboot the buses to get the doors working etc.
Vilket märke?
The auto steer function, is it self learning the more you use it? Interested to know
Unfortunately it isn't. It has a large downloaded knowledge file, what's called an "AI Model". The cars' computer is not powerful enough to do any machine learning in order to modify the file.
If I preheat my Polestar 2 for about 30 minutes at temperatures around zero degrees I lose about zero percent according to the display. 🤷🏽♂️
Bjorn, when are you going to go see MooDeng with the family?
Mht bussene i Oslo som satt fast på flatmark... Det som var rart husker jeg var at det kun var "tilhengeren" som spant. Hjulende på den aller bakerste akslingen, bak leddet i leddbussene. Burde ikke driften i det minste være på bakhjulene (foran leddet)? Da kunne man vel fortsatt kjøre med D-sertifikat?
In Malaysia atm, same thing with the driving, slow take off, right lane hoggers and massive speed difference b/w slowest and fastest vehicles on the road
I think you said ok tesla preheat the party so it started pumping up the jam.
Basically the tires got the Russia quality treatment from China
The major reason for this is:
If you look at the bus, you can't use the snow chains. The wheel arches isn't high enough, and you can't lift up the wheels.
So, this isn't a question of "the drivers can't put on snow chains". The snow chains would ruin the bus.
And, in Oslo you have a tax on spiked tires. So, the buses don't use them.
Ive never heard about using snow chains in buses. Otoh I do live in a very flat part of Sweden.
For trucks and buses in Norway, in the winter, you must have 3 snow chains. 1 for the front wheels, and 2 for the drive wheels.
If it's a boggy, you only put it on one.
A trailer needs 5.
This is a part of the teoreticaly exam, and the practical. All my children have C licences. And, all gave finished the CE teoreticaly exam. 2 are planing on going for the bus (D) licence. To help them I have taken C, CE, D teoretical exams.
So, I know this. The problem is always the idiots that buy trains, trams, and buses in the summer, from countries without snow.
The problem in Oslo is the tax on spiked tires, too. To avoid this, they use winter tires. They are great, until you get real snow.
Oslo, is also saving money on the removal of snow. This is about the respons times. Lower respons times, thus cheaper...
Of course they promised better snow removal, when they put taxes on spiked tires......
Buses and garbage trucks both use chains in NYC.
@ak5659 looks like they don't in China. The CEO that bought them isn't working there any more. But, they haven't fixed the buses. Next week it's forcasted heavy snow. Expects that there will be major problems then.
30 CM error == ID 10T error. Better training required
Can you test NIO Onvo L60?
Elon Musk is already the president 😂
Yes, the worst thing that could have ever happened.
He's The Lord.
He is a lier for stupid people
Did you see that BYD factory in Brasil got shutdown because of the chinese contractor have abused and used the workers as slaves and held salary payment !! That's how BYD is making cheap car's 😮
36C in Sydney Australia today.
Have you got s BYD Shark 6 lined up?
I think Australia has a FTA with thailand. Lots of utes sold here come from Thailand.
bjorn would fit in perfectly in traffic in australia. Lol
Profanity level has risen. Sending data to China.
❤❤❤
Not sure you should shout any political statement, even more so if it is related to USA. This is a polarizing topic and might not help your channel. Cheers Bjorn!
Did I talk about politics?
@bjornnyland well, I was referring to the 'Elon for president' claim at the beginning. Thanks for replying by the way. You are a great content creator and your work is much appreciated 👍
@@PierreVilleneuve88 maybe you were too serious, as we know Elon is immigrant and cant be the president of USA. So as Bjørn said it was not a statement.
Oh stop waffling, Bjorn. It's not the EV buses, it's crappy tyres, and crappy drivers!
You sound like you’re under the influence. 😂
Why not just equip the busses with "automatic tire chain" systems? should help..
ruclips.net/video/kWm3D4Apbqk/видео.htmlsi=LWewRfD1nFUA6pF3
Good to see you driving on the left … the correct side 😂
I strongly disagree 😁
Why is Norway not using hydrogen?
Because they understand math, economics and material sciences. Hydrogen is viable only for those who lack the discipline and cognitive skills to study.
Because hydrogen sucks.
IIRC Norway did give hydrogen a good try, with several H2 filling stations available 10-20 years ago.
Like Bjørn says “hydrogen sucks,” and this became apparent in Norway, just like it did in California.
I love your car content but your musk jokes are getting harder and harder to swallow. Not to mention how you're dismissing the work of thousands of people that have actually designed and built the cars.
president musk now, we must not say bad things about the president
Yeah, they’re cheesey and crass… pointless
The Tesla board needs to distance Tesla from Musk in order to make Tesla great again. Sales in Europe went down 40% in November compared to same month the year before.
Is your name Karen by any chance? 😉
I agree. I'm going to unsubscribe from this channel for now since I don't want to keep hearing about President Musk.
I'm sorry but Elon Musk is showing his true self he wants to be rich and famous he doesn't want to help humanity he wants to help himself. If he wanted to help humanity he would be working to help with mental illness and homelessness and hunger. He proved that he only wants to help himself by buying himself a place in Trump's presidency.
O frio e aquecimento excessivo sao um problena para os electricos
por isso é que muitas empresas na Noruega e Finlândia so conseguem trabalhar com os camiões elétricos no inverno, porque são os únicos a arrancar enquanto os camiões a diesel não pegam com adblue cobgelado a 30minus😅
hey hey electric vehicles are under pressure for all there problems
Regular diesel busses are way better, EV busses not worth the hassle
Your glib joke about Musk is ignorant and grotesquely insensitive. Any more and I will unsubscribe. M. Has many fans but I and very many others are not mindless fans of his bent behaviour. You are a clever guy but there are obviously limits to your intelligence.
Holy moly. Triggered much? Bye bye...
Bye bye.
Completely agree, the muskrat and the annoying orange is just following putler's lead these days
Ok byeeeee
Love Elon ❤
❤❤❤