Using a simple jig it is easy to cut box joints using the classic Radial Arm Saw. For years everyone thought box joints could only be cut using a table saw or router table.
Thank you for your videos Ed. I recently received a radial arm saw and your videos combined with others on here are a tremendous help in figuring this awesome piece of machinery out.
That, “Aw, dang, it…I need to cut something else. “, is why I keep a ShopSmith tucked away in the corner. I have a second table saw, drill press, sander, lathe, whatever; in case I need to use the same thing to make a “cut” and don’t want the change a setup.
I have just seen your update to this video and I can see from that vid how it is done. Sorry about my previous comment but I really was in the dark as to how you had your RAS set up. It certainly seems to be a good technique and I will give it a go next time i do some box joints.
I'll bet with that setup you could turn the wood over frt to back and double the height from 6" to 12" and still get a good Box joint, might help having a ref pin like one of the sheets you set the blade up with to index it back to center.
Yep, that's the idea, however I would start with the stack at the bottom setting, making sure to have an odd number of cuts, working from what would be the center out, and then flip the work piece after each cut and adjusting the spacers. The reason to work from the center out is that you can start with overly wide stock and then precisely trim it to final width after the pins are all cut.
Really enjoyed your video. I have been in construction pretty much my whole life and can relate to some of your discussion. Just purchased my first radial arm saw last week. Wow! I had no idea about all the things that you can do with one of these. Again, enjoyed the video, Thanks!
+Allsource Thanks for the kind words. I've got a molding head I want to start using, might be time for a video. It's been years since I used one. My dad had a molding head for his RAS and used it to make all kinds of neat pieces of trim and fancy edges on things, the thing always kind of intimidated me. Thanks for watching.
Hey Ed !! You made it !! I assume you were referring to me when you mentioned the discussion in the comments ;o) Good work with this jig ! Nice video too ! Keep them coming.
+Nicolas Hallee Thanks for commenting Nicolas. I should have checked to find out with whom I had had the discussion with before making the video, it's only polite to give credit where credit is due. But RUclips doesn't make it that easy to check back, but I could have and should have. It is as easy as we though it would be. Thanks for the encouragement.
Cut a hole slightly larger than 5/8 on the table to accommodate the arbor so the the motor can be lowered more, then you can cut for a deeper box. Build a special box guard so that the motor can get closer to the table.
Hey! Ed Great video, great idea. I'm based in Europe and dado blades do not seem to be available here. Can you do another video demonstrating how you would do box joints on the RAS without the benefit of a dado blade. Keep up the good work. Love your videos. Brend
+Waney Edge Workshop Yes, I did a video using a full kerf (.126") Freud blade. If you go to my channel home page you should be able to find it. Can you order a dado set from the US? This is the one I use. It's $92 USD. www.amazon.com/Freud-SD208-8-Inch-Professional-Dado/dp/B0000223O9/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1459023188&sr=1-1&keywords=freud+dadoIf I can help you beat the system I'd be happy to.
Ed, that Freud dado set has the wrong bore for my saw. Having some difficulty finding a 20mm bore set which is the diameter of my arbour. Anyway, thanks for your interest and your great videos. If it wasn't for you there would be very little on the internet regarding radial arms saws. Best Wishes Brendon
+Waney Edge Workshop In that 20 mm is a larger hole than 5/8" you can re-bore the holes? .6250 to .8784 Or, you could have the arbor turned down and rethreaded to 5/8". We have a whole bunch of safety fanatics here in this country too. One day, if we let them, they will outlaw dado sets here too. It's our patriotic duty to hack the system when ever we can. IMO
Waney Edge Workshop I spoke to my brother yesterday evening, he is a hobby machinist with nice medium size lathe and milling machine. I still think re-boring the hole is the way to go, he thinks it would be better to turn the arbor down to .625. My brother a member of one or two internet forums that discuss all things machinist oriented. Knowing that you are fluent in English, it is his opinion that you should be able to find a hobby machinist if you put the word out. My brother has made important RAS parts for me. He says the ones he knows are usually retired and love to do things just for the challenge and a small stipend to cover expenses. A man aught to be able to have a dado set. Dang, what is the world coming to?
You could gain more depth by removing the base board completely and then mounting the upright back board into the slot that the fence uses. So pull the fence, install the backboard in place of the fence.
Taken a step further, you might perhaps be able to calculate it correctly and dovetail a board twice as wide by cutting half then flipping it over and cutting the other half. If you have 7 inch of cut, could you then cut a 14 inch board as long as it clears the arm of the saw?
As I have never done any box joints, I doubt I would try flipping the board to get a large box joint done. My first project for the RAS will be some drawers for the bed of my truck....Thinking now they will be about 7 inches tall.... hmmm a box joint would be the best way to make them.....
Guy Duke, I've made drawers for a number of vehicles. The Cherokee I presently use for rental repairs has six drawers, a double decker set with three 7" on the bottom three 3-1/2" on top. Cheers.
Electrolux lad I think the system I have works pretty good. It was easy to make. My only problem is remembering to hook it up when I change machines and to turn it on. I'll make a video. Thanks for the input.
+Adam Rassier I think you're right. One might need to determine the exact width of the sides, but maybe not. It's hard to wrap my mind around the solution without actually doing some test cuts. 1) Start with box sides about an 1/8" wider than the actual math would indicate. 2) Cut half the notches/fingers. 3) Flip the boards and repeat. Question: Would the resulting odd notches in the middle match the odd fingers? I think they might.
Brendon, I was wondering when you would ask. The disc arrived four days ago. I tried to open it and it wouldn't open. I don't have a dvd player for my tv so I only tried it on my laptop computer. Do you think this is the problem?
Hey! Ed Have you come across a DVD by Curtis Erpelding on Radial Arm Saw joinery techniques? It's very interesting. He has developed a way of cutting an accurate dovetailed bridle joint or dovetailed box joint, whichever you like to call it, (he calls it a mortice & tenon joint) for the corners of frames in furniture making. It's pretty cool. I think you'd enjoy it. Keep the RAS a cuttin'. B
Don't think there is a link. I've searched the internet and the only reference to it I can find is a VHS video tape for sale in a couple of places (and then they usually say it's not available) . However, there is a guy over here in Ireland who has copied the tape onto DVDs and I have a few spare ones ordered from him. Should have them in a week. If you like I can post one out to you. It's an interesting DVD. Erpelding is a meticulous guy. Given the system you have come up with for doing box joints, I think you will really enjoy his method of doing bridle joints.
James McGuire With motor at rest, move the jig until it just touches the blade. Mark the end of the jig with a pencil. Then move the jig the appropriate distance. All done, less than a minute.
Get concept, why not though get rid of both sheets of plywood and put the base attachment towards the back? Say a length of jointed 2x6 or such with a Rabbet to straddle the fence with the auxiliary ( jig face) and rabbit creating a channel . I'd make the stop longer and separate and attach that to the fence and table (not any higher then the fence). Put all your panels in as they will be cut and use some toggle claps screwed to the table or to a board attached to the table. Just adjust the saw up/down for every notch, the jig face should serve as your index after the first run or use a sharpy to mark adjustment on the saw, or know how much adjustment one revolution makes, my planer is 1/8" for instance. Cutting over the max height of the saw adjustment just flip the work over and you double the Hieght or should I say depth.
chris duty. The method you suggest has been tried by others with mixed results. But, hey you can try it again. Let us know how it worked out, maybe make a video. Cheers, thanks for watching.
Eventually but I Suck at videos, or even documenting a project... I tend to get wrapped up in what I'm doing so lol. It sure is a talent to be a film maker! One talent I more then lack. Regards and thanks for the video!!!
Chris, don't sell yourself short. If you would like to make videos I have just a bit of advice: 1) Content is more important than anything. 2) Pretend that you are explaining things to a grandchild or little brother, it will put you at ease in front of the camera. Cheers.
If I had someone to video me I would be fine, its just me here and I have tunnel vision so its more a matter of that then anything.When working on a project that is all I'm thinking about.So even stopping to explain something does not occur to me unless someones there or asks. I also tend to work fast when its something familiar and even a live audience tends to have trouble keeping up.Like I said its a talent to be able to make a good video. I appreciate the words of encouragement just the same! I will agree with you content is important one thing though a lot of people talk way to much, not bad if its engaging or entertaining. People also tend to leave out some of the most important details that someone with experience would know or understand with out explanation. Your bag is pretty well mixed ,so keep up the good work sir!
You are very right on the wood they sell you today, they keep making it thinner every year trying to save them selves a penny while they complicate the math for the working man. I remember when a two by four was that a two by four, (by the way in the Philippines it is that a 2x4 that is square not rounded like in America. Now while in the Philippines I learned a lot about the metric system but still like American measurements the best, now only if the wood suppliers would go back to the old ways.
Unfortunately all I could see was the back of your right shoulder throughout the process. I have no idea how you set the work piece up to be cut. I suggest you show people just how the jig works not just the back of your shoulder. Get someone to film it for you; using the camera as you did made it impossible to see the set up on the RAS which is a shame as I would have liked to see how it was done. Maybe I am just stupid cos the other comments seem to make me think they understood your technique but for me, I am no wiser at the end of the video as from the beginning.
Nice video Ed, I hope you are still with us and stopped smoking..
You explained perfectly I’m 62 and own and use my radial arm saw now I can’t make box cuts thanks
Thank you for your videos Ed. I recently received a radial arm saw and your videos combined with others on here are a tremendous help in figuring this awesome piece of machinery out.
Thank you John. I'm happy that my videos have been of help to you.
That, “Aw, dang, it…I need to cut something else. “, is why I keep a ShopSmith tucked away in the corner. I have a second table saw, drill press, sander, lathe, whatever; in case I need to use the same thing to make a “cut” and don’t want the change a setup.
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Thanks to you my RAS is in adjustment and cutting well. Keep it up!!
It pleases me that my videos are useful. Thanks.
Enjoyed your little story Ed
I have just seen your update to this video and I can see from that vid how it is done. Sorry about my previous comment but I really was in the dark as to how you had your RAS set up. It certainly seems to be a good technique and I will give it a go next time i do some box joints.
A simple and elegant solution thank you
Well, that was a learning experience. Thanks.
I love ur videos Sir, please keep making them. I love the stories also.
Still say the RAS is obsolete?
Can you do a box joint on a bed frame with a table saw?
The RAS is king for working on the end of long stocks.
I'll bet with that setup you could turn the wood over frt to back and double the height from 6" to 12" and still get a good Box joint, might help having a ref pin like one of the sheets you set the blade up with to index it back to center.
Yep, that's the idea, however I would start with the stack at the bottom setting, making sure to have an odd number of cuts, working from what would be the center out, and then flip the work piece after each cut and adjusting the spacers. The reason to work from the center out is that you can start with overly wide stock and then precisely trim it to final width after the pins are all cut.
Really enjoyed your video. I have been in construction pretty much my whole life and can relate to some of your discussion. Just purchased my first radial arm saw last week. Wow! I had no idea about all the things that you can do with one of these. Again, enjoyed the video, Thanks!
+Allsource Thanks for the kind words. I've got a molding head I want to start using, might be time for a video. It's been years since I used one. My dad had a molding head for his RAS and used it to make all kinds of neat pieces of trim and fancy edges on things, the thing always kind of intimidated me. Thanks for watching.
Hey Ed !! You made it !! I assume you were referring to me when you mentioned the discussion in the comments ;o) Good work with this jig ! Nice video too ! Keep them coming.
+Nicolas Hallee Thanks for commenting Nicolas. I should have checked to find out with whom I had had the discussion with before making the video, it's only polite to give credit where credit is due. But RUclips doesn't make it that easy to check back, but I could have and should have. It is as easy as we though it would be. Thanks for the encouragement.
No big deal Ed. I was just pleased to hear back on the subject.
Cut a hole slightly larger than 5/8 on the table to accommodate the arbor so the the motor can be lowered more, then you can cut for a deeper box. Build a special box guard so that the motor can get closer to the table.
Hey! Ed
Great video, great idea.
I'm based in Europe and dado blades do not seem to be available here.
Can you do another video demonstrating how you would do box joints on the RAS
without the benefit of a dado blade.
Keep up the good work.
Love your videos.
Brend
+Waney Edge Workshop Yes, I did a video using a full kerf (.126") Freud blade. If you go to my channel home page you should be able to find it. Can you order a dado set from the US? This is the one I use. It's $92 USD. www.amazon.com/Freud-SD208-8-Inch-Professional-Dado/dp/B0000223O9/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1459023188&sr=1-1&keywords=freud+dadoIf I can help you beat the system I'd be happy to.
Yes, I found your other video Ed.
Brilliant. The 1/8" box joints look fantastic.
Thanks
B
Waney Edge Workshop Great.
Brilliant and simple. Thanks
Ed, that Freud dado set has the wrong bore for my saw.
Having some difficulty finding a 20mm bore set which is the diameter of my arbour.
Anyway, thanks for your interest and your great videos.
If it wasn't for you there would be very little on the internet regarding radial arms saws.
Best Wishes
Brendon
+Waney Edge Workshop In that 20 mm is a larger hole than 5/8" you can re-bore the holes? .6250 to .8784 Or, you could have the arbor turned down and rethreaded to 5/8". We have a whole bunch of safety fanatics here in this country too. One day, if we let them, they will outlaw dado sets here too. It's our patriotic duty to hack the system when ever we can. IMO
I know what you mean buddy; we're regulated to hell these days.
B
Waney Edge Workshop I spoke to my brother yesterday evening, he is a hobby machinist with nice medium size lathe and milling machine. I still think re-boring the hole is the way to go, he thinks it would be better to turn the arbor down to .625. My brother a member of one or two internet forums that discuss all things machinist oriented. Knowing that you are fluent in English, it is his opinion that you should be able to find a hobby machinist if you put the word out.
My brother has made important RAS parts for me. He says the ones he knows are usually retired and love to do things just for the challenge and a small stipend to cover expenses. A man aught to be able to have a dado set. Dang, what is the world coming to?
World's in a state of chassis alright. Anyway keep making the videos Ed. Your one of the last bastions of the Radial Arm Saw. Keep up the good work.
Waney Edge Workshop Thanks.
You could gain more depth by removing the base board completely and then mounting the upright back board into the slot that the fence uses. So pull the fence, install the backboard in place of the fence.
As my Dad, rip, use to say, "Damn it anyway why didn't I think of that."
Taken a step further, you might perhaps be able to calculate it correctly and dovetail a board twice as wide by cutting half then flipping it over and cutting the other half. If you have 7 inch of cut, could you then cut a 14 inch board as long as it clears the arm of the saw?
Guy, I think you are correct.
As I have never done any box joints, I doubt I would try flipping the board to get a large box joint done. My first project for the RAS will be some drawers for the bed of my truck....Thinking now they will be about 7 inches tall.... hmmm a box joint would be the best way to make them.....
Guy Duke, I've made drawers for a number of vehicles. The Cherokee I presently use for rental repairs has six drawers, a double decker set with three 7" on the bottom three 3-1/2" on top. Cheers.
that is neat i have a delta that would help in making boxes
+Electrolux lad I'm happy the information was of value.
also i need help on adjustment
Electrolux lad Ask away, I'll do my best to answer whatever questions you have. I think you can access my email address by clicking on about.
do you know how to make a dust collection shoot because i have a shelf behind it and it is a pain in the ass to clean behind after i am done
Electrolux lad I think the system I have works pretty good. It was easy to make. My only problem is remembering to hook it up when I change machines and to turn it on. I'll make a video. Thanks for the input.
What a great idea!
I think you could do almost 12 inches by flipping and cutting the other way. Would have to be precise to line up, but could be made to work.
+Adam Rassier I think you're right. One might need to determine the exact width of the sides, but maybe not. It's hard to wrap my mind around the solution without actually doing some test cuts. 1) Start with box sides about an 1/8" wider than the actual math would indicate. 2) Cut half the notches/fingers. 3) Flip the boards and repeat. Question: Would the resulting odd notches in the middle match the odd fingers? I think they might.
Hey! Ed,
Just wondering if the DVD arrived yet
Brendon
Brendon, I was wondering when you would ask. The disc arrived four days ago. I tried to open it and it wouldn't open. I don't have a dvd player for my tv so I only tried it on my laptop computer. Do you think this is the problem?
Hey! Ed, Did you get the email I sent you with links I created for the video?
Brendon
+Waney Edge Workshop Not yet. Can you try again?
Ed, I've sent the two video links again via the contact link on your blogspot.
Hope you get them this time.
Brendon
Waney Edge Workshop Thanks Brendon, I'll let you know.
ED FOR MORE HIGHT AND A DEEPER BOX COULD YOU PUT A SMALLER BLADE ON THE RADIAL ARM ? Bob
+robert hukill You could try.
Hey! Ed
Have you come across a DVD by Curtis Erpelding on Radial Arm Saw joinery techniques?
It's very interesting. He has developed a way of cutting an accurate dovetailed bridle joint or dovetailed box joint,
whichever you like to call it,
(he calls it a mortice & tenon joint)
for the corners of frames in furniture making. It's pretty cool.
I think you'd enjoy it.
Keep the RAS a cuttin'.
B
+Waney Edge Workshop The DVD sounds interesting. Could you provide us with a link?
Don't think there is a link. I've searched the internet and the only reference to it I can find is a VHS video tape for sale in a couple of places (and then they usually say it's not available) . However, there is a guy over here in Ireland who has copied the tape onto DVDs and I have a few spare ones ordered from him. Should have them in a week. If you like I can post one out to you.
It's an interesting DVD. Erpelding is a meticulous guy. Given the system you have come up with for doing box joints, I think you will really enjoy his method of doing bridle joints.
Waney Edge Workshop Sounds great to me. Thanks.
I'll let you know when I have them
Hey Ed,
I 've got the DVDs now. If you want one can you give me your postal address and I'll send one out to you
Regards,
B
RAS are not good for anything!
Right! try this with a sliding compound miter saw!
I'll bet you could make Dovetail joints with this set up too!
Hello Ed, can you please tell me some details about the Dado Blade guard
asaf, I use the standard blade guard. Stack on some plates (blade) and see how thick you can go without rubbing the guard.
Ed, Thanks. The guard is it custom made or I can buy On-Line or in a hardware store? Is it design for this specific saw or is it universal?
asaf, you should be able to use the guard that came on the saw.
So how do you set the depth of cut?
+James McGuire Set the depth of cut by moving he jig closer or further away from the blade.
+Ed Waggoner Sr. (Papatch) So it just starts off with a guess then trial and error?no put the stock your going to cut against the fence and ...
James McGuire With motor at rest, move the jig until it just touches the blade. Mark the end of the jig with a pencil. Then move the jig the appropriate distance. All done, less than a minute.
Get concept, why not though get rid of both sheets of plywood and put the base attachment towards the back? Say a length of jointed 2x6 or such with a Rabbet to straddle the fence with the auxiliary ( jig face) and rabbit creating a channel . I'd make the stop longer and separate and attach that to the fence and table (not any higher then the fence). Put all your panels in as they will be cut and use some toggle claps screwed to the table or to a board attached to the table. Just adjust the saw up/down for every notch, the jig face should serve as your index after the first run or use a sharpy to mark adjustment on the saw, or know how much adjustment one revolution makes, my planer is 1/8" for instance. Cutting over the max height of the saw adjustment just flip the work over and you double the Hieght or should I say depth.
chris duty. The method you suggest has been tried by others with mixed results. But, hey you can try it again. Let us know how it worked out, maybe make a video. Cheers, thanks for watching.
Eventually but I Suck at videos, or even documenting a project... I tend to get wrapped up in what I'm doing so lol. It sure is a talent to be a film maker! One talent I more then lack. Regards and thanks for the video!!!
Chris, don't sell yourself short. If you would like to make videos I have just a bit of advice: 1) Content is more important than anything. 2) Pretend that you are explaining things to a grandchild or little brother, it will put you at ease in front of the camera. Cheers.
If I had someone to video me I would be fine, its just me here and I have tunnel vision so its more a matter of that then anything.When working on a project that is all I'm thinking about.So even stopping to explain something does not occur to me unless someones there or asks. I also tend to work fast when its something familiar and even a live audience tends to have trouble keeping up.Like I said its a talent to be able to make a good video. I appreciate the words of encouragement just the same!
I will agree with you content is important one thing though a lot of people talk way to much, not bad if its engaging or entertaining. People also tend to leave out some of the most important details that someone with experience would know or understand with out explanation. Your bag is pretty well mixed ,so keep up the good work sir!
You are very right on the wood they sell you today, they keep making it thinner every year trying to save them selves a penny while they complicate the math for the working man. I remember when a two by four was that a two by four, (by the way in the Philippines it is that a 2x4 that is square not rounded like in America. Now while in the Philippines I learned a lot about the metric system but still like American measurements the best, now only if the wood suppliers would go back to the old ways.
Make me king of the world for a day and I would feel happy if I only accomplished one thing. I ended forever the blight of the metric system.
What blade are you using?
Guy, check this: www.amazon.com/Freud-SD208-8-Inch-Professional-Dado/dp/B0000223O9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517280983&sr=8-1&keywords=freud+dado+set
Thank you, Sir.
My pleasure.
Go Panthers!
+Wes Stallard May the best team win. Go Denver.
N
Lost me at the cancer stick
Unfortunately all I could see was the back of your right shoulder throughout the process. I have no idea how you set the work piece up to be cut. I suggest you show people just how the jig works not just the back of your shoulder. Get someone to film it for you; using the camera as you did made it impossible to see the set up on the RAS which is a shame as I would have liked to see how it was done. Maybe I am just stupid cos the other comments seem to make me think they understood your technique but for me, I am no wiser at the end of the video as from the beginning.
I felt the same but I guessed he had the blade rotated and I did get a glance at one point that showed it in the required orientation
Hi Ed, what size do you like better, the Dewalt or your old Delta super 990?