If you think about it, it makes sense. If you promote to a queen the opponent is forced to take the piece back due to check. If you promote to a knight, at least the opponent has an opportunity to select a different (worse) move.
@@hypersonicpiano6120that's why it looks like a neural network gameplay. I'm not sure, but torch may be a real chess neural network. Lc0 is a parody of neural network - it's an average chess engine but... it's running on gpu. Guys think if it runs on gpu they can call it as a chess neural network.
Torch really seems like they are trying to program a hyper aggressive engine. Like you look at Leela and stockfish and they are all very maneuvering, patient, but not torch. Torch came here to kill.
Instead of an aggressive program, it's just that torch is a simply superior engine. Instead of being "aggressive", torch is just poking holes in the defenses of a lower elo engine. When it fights an engine that can match it, it will be the same manuevering chess because it can't just plow through the defense with moves the other side doesn't see.
7:21 Torch promotes to a knight not because it is being sassy but because it is the best move! If White promotes to either a rook or queen, Black *must* capture with the king (only legal move). But if White promotes to a knight or bishop, Black *could* choose not to capture immediately, in which case the promoted piece could escape or capture a pawn and damage Black's pawn structure.
The stockfish and leela team are incredibly intelligent and great additions to the chess community, it will be interesting how chess engines evolve and compete now a big player has arrived
They'll continue improving the same way they do. Leela's new net architecture T2 is huge and is very strong. Easily the #2 engine. Meanwhile, stockfish uses Leela data to train it's neural nets
Torch’s double rook sacrifice reminded me of when Eric “hung” both his rooks for checkmate. Man really said “oh no my rook, oh no my other rook, I just hung both rook ah…checkmate.”
I think most western European languages get it from the French word "rochade", with German even straight up copying it. Only the English decided to be cunts about it cuz they'd rather drop dead than speak a single word of french
Accept Carlsen will start to lose more and more to the top players as he ages. Anand played against him at 43. Can he beat Pragg multiple times again in 2033? No.
Because giving the enemy the opportunity of making a mistake is objectively better than not. In this case not taking a horse is the possible mistake even though is unlikely to happen. So this makes it the most professional move.
Thought the same, then started wondering if it was better to get a Knight or a Bishop for that purpose, then realized the Bishop was also mandatory to take because of M1 threat on g7.
I don't know if Levy is going to see this, but I really like the videos where he goes over top chess bot games a lot more than GTE or low ELO games. Obviously a lot of it goes over any human's head, but he eventually explains it and it makes me feel like I can open my eyes in my own games to kind of ridiculous moves that I normally wouldn't think of (not that it always works). I hope that we get more content like this in the future, but maybe that's just me.
@@EllipticalReasoningA 3:2 advantage is pretty significant is chess because the match points also include draws. At extremely high elos (2600 elo GMs and above) a 3:2 advantage, especially over 500 games, is equivalent to getting destroyed.
Torch got Torched by Stockfish. In 1000 Games, Stockfish scored 640 over 360 of Torch. Update: Torch is losing against Leela. Basically Torch is a steroid version of Dragon. Unless it can consistently beat Leela or Stockfish, The Top 2 Engines would remain to be Stockfish and Leela.
28:40 I love how BrowserFish saw Ke5 and went “Why woul-oh I mean yes, that’s EXACTLY what I saw!” with the eval bar 😂 Torch is slowly starting to overtake AlphaZero as my favorite bot. That double rook sac was INSANE.
I kind of see Torch as the modern but also different AlphaZero just like the AlphaZero of now, but a bit different I would really like to see Torch vs AlphaZero though (giving them the same training time or whatever, I looked it up and I think Torch is also machine learning alg of some sort?)
I love that each bot has a different personality. Lc0 is fiery and aggressive, Stockfish is like a sensei, and Torch is the cocky newcomer that wants to show pops what it's made of.
thought on torch promoting to a knight: knights are worth less, so there's a higher probability that the opponent would choose to do a different move instead of taking the knight.
That endgame taught me something. Torch made his rook, bishop, and pawn into an equal material against the queen, and made it so the queen had no way in. Just wow.
7:24 I’m guessing the engine sometimes promotes to lower value pieces because it knows whichever piece it promotes to will be captured, so it chooses a knight as it sees losing a knight as better than losing a queen? Either way it still is very comical to see it take the rook and choose to promote to something that wouldn’t even check the king
I'm betting that torch converted to a knight because it knew it was going to be taken on the next move and that was the lowest point loss of convertable pieces. Sounds like solid computer math to me.
that literally makes no sense, the computer isnt really losing a queen or a knight, its losing a pawn essentially when u think about it. the reason it did knight was so that the king wasnt forced to take a queen or rook, so it has an option of making a mistake. and maybe the computer preferred the knight over bishop in case it did survive. @Fail_Inc
@@SaphiraTabecause by promoting to a queen stockfish is forced to take, by promoting to a knight your giving stockfish an opportunity to not take the knight and make a worse move, thus promoting to a knight is the best move.
@gothamchess, dude, Stockfish gave 300 to 200 last week. Our dude wins with white and draws with black the same opening infinite amount of time, torch manages it like ten times at most only. The true thing to say is that it’s Stockfish who actually crushed Torch, this is just an exception.. and it’s misleading.
Love these breakdowns of the deep ideas behind the bots' tactics, Levy! You make the matches both entertaining and illuminating to watch. I recognize how insane, absurd even, some of the bot's deep plans and tactics are, so so different from the ways humans play. I can't help but wonder if the next gen of humans who grow up studying these crazy bot ideas will incorporate them well enough to evolve human chess competition to the next level.
I love the content, keep it up. As a programmer I love chess computer programming and there are some wild stats about chess that make it impossible for a computer to simply solve chess and always play perfectly. I think that could make a great video, also highlight how complex chess really is. Just an idea, maybe you covered some of that already but I couldn't see where.
Just for you to know, from Amazon your book shipping cost 17,89$ to Finland. I know you dont control the prices, but let's hope that the shipping cost decreases a bit.
Actually Torch won just winning starting positions against stockfish. Every position which was won by torch was also won by stockfish. Not the other way round tho
I would love it if we could get the PGNs to analyze. I’m curious what would happen if torch tried to sac the bishop before playing Nd4 against Rofchade
I love how torch is just a more accurate, but importantly more aggressive and creative version of stockfish, if stockfish was a snake, torch would be a tiger
I know it's probably not available yet, but it'd be really cool to see eval bars from both AIs during these games -- the times when one AI is confident in its advantage but the other AI hasn't sensed danger yet would be really interesting.
The reason bots promote to night is actually bc it thinks it’s losing less points of material if it loses a night instead of a Queen obv it would promote to a Queen if it wouldn’t lose it immediately but since either way the piece is lost it views the knight as better but funny regardless 😂
I figure case by not changing to a queen or a rook it give the other computer an option not to take the piece and in turn give torch a chance to save the piece since most likely you will take it anyway. by demoting that is the best chance of keeping the extra piece
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Stockfish giving the eval to Torch instead of Stockfish must feel like betrayal of the highest order hahaha
😂😂😂
You could say it was ... passing on the torch
The eval is SF8 and the one playing against torch is SF15, so it's like your older cousin saying that your opponent is better.
@@SteveInLava brutal
Humor aside, think time is the big missing factor.
torch promoting to a knight was so personal , like wtf
If you think about it, it makes sense. If you promote to a queen the opponent is forced to take the piece back due to check. If you promote to a knight, at least the opponent has an opportunity to select a different (worse) move.
@@hypersonicpiano6120big brain
yup
@@cheddarsunchipsyes8144
@@hypersonicpiano6120is scary
@@hypersonicpiano6120that's why it looks like a neural network gameplay. I'm not sure, but torch may be a real chess neural network. Lc0 is a parody of neural network - it's an average chess engine but... it's running on gpu. Guys think if it runs on gpu they can call it as a chess neural network.
Torch really seems like they are trying to program a hyper aggressive engine. Like you look at Leela and stockfish and they are all very maneuvering, patient, but not torch. Torch came here to kill.
Its fitting really a fire doesn't just sit around if it can get bigger and stronger destroying everything in its path it will
Instead of an aggressive program, it's just that torch is a simply superior engine. Instead of being "aggressive", torch is just poking holes in the defenses of a lower elo engine.
When it fights an engine that can match it, it will be the same manuevering chess because it can't just plow through the defense with moves the other side doesn't see.
Kinda reminds me of Alpha zero in a way.
@@eientakara Alpha Zero looked like an attacking genius vs Stockfish 8 (not the latest version at the time), which was a weaker engine
torch devs really guy woke up and chose violence
7:21 Torch promotes to a knight not because it is being sassy but because it is the best move! If White promotes to either a rook or queen, Black *must* capture with the king (only legal move). But if White promotes to a knight or bishop, Black *could* choose not to capture immediately, in which case the promoted piece could escape or capture a pawn and damage Black's pawn structure.
Yeah, but its funnier if it is sassy
so basically he plays the *seemingly* worse move becauase black has the option to do even worse, how brutal
Yeah, but its also sassy
Mfers didn't program torch, they captured the spirit of Tal inside a computer
And Tal was happy
Beautiful and accurate. Did torch learn to comment ?
I've just pictured a cyborg Tal and it has made me shit my pants. That would be the coolest and scariest chess opponent ever
More like Tal and Nezhmetdinov combined
One must imagine Tal happy.
Stockfish was like that one friend who understands the joke a minute after it was said
The stockfish and leela team are incredibly intelligent and great additions to the chess community, it will be interesting how chess engines evolve and compete now a big player has arrived
They'll continue improving the same way they do. Leela's new net architecture T2 is huge and is very strong. Easily the #2 engine. Meanwhile, stockfish uses Leela data to train it's neural nets
bro gave such an insightful comment even before watching the full video
Lets not forget what happened every other time a bot beat stockfish - in 1 year stockfish will be better.
What is the T2 architecture? Just a new pretrained model?
@@jarlnooch1882reading comments in this thread it seems like Stockfish uses the newer and better engine for further training so that tracks!
After reading Levy's book I was able to play like Torch, for my first move. Then I went back to play like Martin.
Sometimes I play like Magnus. But only when he's memeing and I'm not.
9:52 "Torch has been on fire, as of late...". Good one, GothamChess, truly one of the jokes of all time
🦍🦍
not one of the best but certainly one of them
i paused exactly 4 secs before this time mark to read the comments lol
25:26 Masterful judo throw execution by Levy
Torch’s double rook sacrifice reminded me of when Eric “hung” both his rooks for checkmate. Man really said “oh no my rook, oh no my other rook, I just hung both rook ah…checkmate.”
They're not really hanging if there's a mate threat
@@Heroball299oh really? Maybe read the comment again and you'll realise hung is in quotes.
19:04 when you thought the fight was over, but hear tense music and psycho villain laugh
I'm German not Dutch, but I'm pretty sure, that Rofchade is a play on the word "Rochade" which means castling
The author's name is Ronald Friederich. :-)
in norwegian rokade means castling
In Swedish its close to the word castling too
@@tetsi0815Schade
I think most western European languages get it from the French word "rochade", with German even straight up copying it. Only the English decided to be cunts about it cuz they'd rather drop dead than speak a single word of french
5:55 had me laughing for a solid minute 😭😭😭
Torch vs Stockfish gives the same energy as Pragg vs Magnus Carlsen
Accept Carlsen will start to lose more and more to the top players as he ages. Anand played against him at 43. Can he beat Pragg multiple times again in 2033? No.
@@samulikarjalainen6107How can u say No? Who knows.
@@kunjupullacuz this chess it happened to Kasparov vs magnus and it will happen to Magnus by pragg
And I will beat pragg 👺
@@lordshassuming pragg will ever be world champion. I honestly believe gukesh has a better shot
Id Say Magnus vs Hikaru.
Levy always fails to fail us
Yeah, what he said
Noice
Noice
7:20 It promoted to knight so that the enemy could choose not to take it. If it was a queen the enemy is forced to take.
yea its actually insane.
Because giving the enemy the opportunity of making a mistake is objectively better than not. In this case not taking a horse is the possible mistake even though is unlikely to happen. So this makes it the most professional move.
Thought the same, then started wondering if it was better to get a Knight or a Bishop for that purpose, then realized the Bishop was also mandatory to take because of M1 threat on g7.
@@0xf7c8😊
Torch and Stockfish playing chess is like those 2 brothers who fight all the time and then when they win they humiliate the other.
I enjoy the moment at 5:57 way too much! The way Levy goes Nhblblblblbl...I rewatched that 10 times at least!
Hearing that a chess bot did a move simply "Just because It can," is terrifying.
It's weirdly wholesome to think that while torch is beating other engines, stockfish is cheering for him with the eval bar on the side
I don't know if Levy is going to see this, but I really like the videos where he goes over top chess bot games a lot more than GTE or low ELO games. Obviously a lot of it goes over any human's head, but he eventually explains it and it makes me feel like I can open my eyes in my own games to kind of ridiculous moves that I normally wouldn't think of (not that it always works). I hope that we get more content like this in the future, but maybe that's just me.
yea i like high advanced computer games as well, its so marvelous how computers can generate these moves that are beyond our calculation abilities
Not just you. These are both entertaining and instructive :D
Today’s stare was deep but brief. Offering us an analogy of low depth stock fish. Bless for your artistic input Gotham
M
top comment?
BRO UPLAUDED 3 MINS AGP CHILL
I read autistic input 💀
Ancient historical patter mate, move on
You know we’re evolving too rapidly when Levy breaks down more AI chess than GM chess 😅
I love it how levys content is always related to chess, very amazing 👏
No, it's related to the stare, the rest is extra
No, his content revolves around THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK
Nope it’s about sacrificing TEH ROOOOOK
It's about ordering... THE BOOOOOOK
@@Hattori_Hanzō_侍 This wins.
13:02 "The Black computer" sounded hilarious.
I loved the moment when the torch crushed stockfish below its feet and said "it's torching time" & stockfish fluttered vigorously before dying.
Wouldn't flopped be a better term here since its a fish ;p
”Torch has been on fire” WELL NO SHIT
I like how Stockfish was basically the water Avatar and Torch was the fire Avatar in this video. Truly one of the Avatar moments of all time.
torch is fire🔥
?????
Nice
Korra stockfish vs Roku torch
water defeats fire...
29:57 "torch has been on fire" yeah that’s kinda the entire point of a torch 🤣
I think Levy is contractually obligated to promoted Torch because Stockfish demolished Torch in their most recent match (198 vs 302.)
Personally, I wouldn't call a 3:2 advantage 'demolished', especially in a bot vs. bot match.
@@EllipticalReasoningA 3:2 advantage is pretty significant is chess because the match points also include draws. At extremely high elos (2600 elo GMs and above) a 3:2 advantage, especially over 500 games, is equivalent to getting destroyed.
29:56 yeah they do that sometimes
You should mention the scores of every match. Leela lost to Torch by a margin of error, and stockfish won its match soundly against Torch.
He already talked about how stockfish torched torch in a previous video
Torch got Torched by Stockfish. In 1000 Games, Stockfish scored 640 over 360 of Torch.
Update: Torch is losing against Leela. Basically Torch is a steroid version of Dragon. Unless it can consistently beat Leela or Stockfish, The Top 2 Engines would remain to be Stockfish and Leela.
And also, Levy never even mentions the total score because at the CCC engines need to play both sides.
"I don't understand it with either color, which is sort of how you play chess."
Not sure if I feel attacked or seen, but ... no lies detected.
Imagine Gothamchess playing against Michael from Vsauce to a staring contest.
6:00 I love when these engines make a move so brilliant it literally looks like something a 100 would play lol
28:40 I love how BrowserFish saw Ke5 and went “Why woul-oh I mean yes, that’s EXACTLY what I saw!” with the eval bar 😂
Torch is slowly starting to overtake AlphaZero as my favorite bot. That double rook sac was INSANE.
Lol that was hilarious!
I kind of see Torch as the modern but also different AlphaZero
just like the AlphaZero of now, but a bit different
I would really like to see Torch vs AlphaZero though (giving them the same training time or whatever, I looked it up and I think Torch is also machine learning alg of some sort?)
Levy is using the HCE version for some reason (hand crafted eval), ie nnue is disabled. Nnue stockfish would smoke torch any day of the week.
4:50 never thought i'd learn about boxing from a chess video.
(if we forget the existence of chess boxing of course)
9:40 Everything is hanging? This must be 400 Elo madness...Oh wait...WHAT!?😂
Stockfish pats torch: *I've grown too old for this son, carry the legacy.*
Please do more videos like this whenever you can. Bots chess is just amazing along with your commentary. I loved every second of it❤️
The white king walked into the black king's home square(e8) feels like the white king captured black king's territory. Torch attitude is badass.
"Torch has been ON FIRE!!!" Has to be the most obvious, yet the most exciting revelation in chess lately lol
I love that each bot has a different personality. Lc0 is fiery and aggressive, Stockfish is like a sensei, and Torch is the cocky newcomer that wants to show pops what it's made of.
Anthropomorphizing chess *engines* doesn't really make much sense.
@@tedzards509 chess engines dont make much sense either tbh
"If the king does not lead, how can he expect his subordinates to follow" - Lelouch Lamperouge
Thought the same thing
“Torch has been on fire” well that’s good because otherwise it would just be a stick of wood
As crushed, I can confirm torch did me to stockfish
Stockfish to torch did me I as confirm crushed
@@Poggyreal
As did, I can confirm torch used me to crush stockfish
I can confirm torch crushed stockfish as did me
@@Poggyreal
thought on torch promoting to a knight: knights are worth less, so there's a higher probability that the opponent would choose to do a different move instead of taking the knight.
I feel like Torch is programmed to just sacrifice a piece whenever it can
it's just trained to farm brilliant moves
6:37 the foresight about the threat of the queen is excellent
My favorite thing is watching bots play bots.
That endgame taught me something. Torch made his rook, bishop, and pawn into an equal material against the queen, and made it so the queen had no way in. Just wow.
7:24 I’m guessing the engine sometimes promotes to lower value pieces because it knows whichever piece it promotes to will be captured, so it chooses a knight as it sees losing a knight as better than losing a queen? Either way it still is very comical to see it take the rook and choose to promote to something that wouldn’t even check the king
Your passion and commentary for chess is intoxicating
I love how levy dosent even acknowledge the pun whenever he says, "torch has been on fire"
I'm betting that torch converted to a knight because it knew it was going to be taken on the next move and that was the lowest point loss of convertable pieces. Sounds like solid computer math to me.
7:40 It promotes to a knight or bishop in order to allow the opponent to make the mistake of not immediately capturing it.
wait thats actually crazy, cause if it promotes to a queen then the king is forced to capture it. holy sh*t
if I had to guess, I'd say it promoted to a knight because it considers the loss of a queen to be worse than that of a knight
that literally makes no sense, the computer isnt really losing a queen or a knight, its losing a pawn essentially when u think about it. the reason it did knight was so that the king wasnt forced to take a queen or rook, so it has an option of making a mistake. and maybe the computer preferred the knight over bishop in case it did survive. @Fail_Inc
Torch tortured Stockfish.
Truly a Caveman Gotham moment.
I guess you could say.....
The whole robot ranking....
Just got TORCHED.
😎
Watching ai playing chess is my favourite chess activity. It is pure art and brilliant.
I like that there are a lot of torch puns because if it wins it’s on FIRE and if it loses its winning chances it’s SNUFFED OUT
Torch promoting to a knight actually made me laugh
Why the knight. That's what I came here to ask lol
@@SaphiraTaperhaps Torch was programmed to disrespect and style on its opponents!
@@SaphiraTabecause it dont make difference if he promotes to a queen or a knight
@@SaphiraTabecause by promoting to a queen stockfish is forced to take, by promoting to a knight your giving stockfish an opportunity to not take the knight and make a worse move, thus promoting to a knight is the best move.
Stockfish is like "How dare you strike ME!"
A truly wonderful video. I loved when torch said "it's torching time" and torched all over stockfish. A truly spectacular moment!
@gothamchess, dude, Stockfish gave 300 to 200 last week. Our dude wins with white and draws with black the same opening infinite amount of time, torch manages it like ten times at most only.
The true thing to say is that it’s Stockfish who actually crushed Torch, this is just an exception.. and it’s misleading.
Facts. It's quite misleading
Love these breakdowns of the deep ideas behind the bots' tactics, Levy! You make the matches both entertaining and illuminating to watch. I recognize how insane, absurd even, some of the bot's deep plans and tactics are, so so different from the ways humans play. I can't help but wonder if the next gen of humans who grow up studying these crazy bot ideas will incorporate them well enough to evolve human chess competition to the next level.
I like how stockfish is analyzing the game on the side.
I love the content, keep it up. As a programmer I love chess computer programming and there are some wild stats about chess that make it impossible for a computer to simply solve chess and always play perfectly. I think that could make a great video, also highlight how complex chess really is. Just an idea, maybe you covered some of that already but I couldn't see where.
And The King Felt True Fear For The Very First Time
Proud to see Gotham turn into a Torch, quality content as always!
Just for you to know, from Amazon your book shipping cost 17,89$ to Finland. I know you dont control the prices, but let's hope that the shipping cost decreases a bit.
I got third place in a chess tournament today and I felt really nice but when this video came out too my satisfaction was at their peak
19:49 levy saying torch sacrificed the rook confusedly, then hyped it up in the double rook sacrifice lol
As stockfish I can confirm that Torch Brutally stepped on me and pushed me deep into the ground💀
i would love that
Soooo funny 🙄
@@Samibeast8says the bro who likes his own comments
Actually Torch won just winning starting positions against stockfish. Every position which was won by torch was also won by stockfish. Not the other way round tho
@@twoguys21 lol "says the bro" I love how english grammar evolves over time
27:20 is a masterpiece
I would love it if we could get the PGNs to analyze. I’m curious what would happen if torch tried to sac the bishop before playing Nd4 against Rofchade
Too lazy to put the moves in yourself or even just set the position up where you want to analyse
nothing obviously, the queen couldnt get out
Magnus vs Praggnanandhaa = Stockfish vs Torch
That was cool how torch told stockfish he would get crushed
25:29 watching that flip at 1.5 speed is a level of slapstick comedy i was not expecting
This was if Alphazero and Tal had a lovechild. Insane games, brilliant commentary as always
exactly
8:14 I never thought i'd see the day gotham misses the chance to shout "SACRIFICES THE ROOK" ... "but not really"
Stockfish vs Torch is exactly like Sukuna vs Gojo
Guys welcome to a new era RIP stockfish.
Gotham always inspires me to be as good as him hopefully I get there someday🙂
Keep it up Gotham💙
28:43 "Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?"
I love how torch is just a more accurate, but importantly more aggressive and creative version of stockfish, if stockfish was a snake, torch would be a tiger
25:22 broo😂😂
Seriously levy is the funniest chess player who ever existed!😂
Jobava😂
The way he just shook his head
I know it's probably not available yet, but it'd be really cool to see eval bars from both AIs during these games -- the times when one AI is confident in its advantage but the other AI hasn't sensed danger yet would be really interesting.
“Torch has been on fire”
Torch really TORCHured Stockfish this time XDD
9:52 We're just gonna ignore that beautiful wordplay? "The torch has been on fire"
As a GM , I can confirm torch did me to stockfish
What
@@Bible-Chess-Jesus-Is-The-King it's probably a bot
@@liam.28 I'm probably smarter than you
@@Bible-Chess-Jesus-Is-The-King💀
That last game was eye opening. The game was all over the place with ridiculous attacks and defenses and wow
The reason bots promote to night is actually bc it thinks it’s losing less points of material if it loses a night instead of a Queen obv it would promote to a Queen if it wouldn’t lose it immediately but since either way the piece is lost it views the knight as better but funny regardless 😂
I figure case by not changing to a queen or a rook it give the other computer an option not to take the piece and in turn give torch a chance to save the piece since most likely you will take it anyway. by demoting that is the best chance of keeping the extra piece
Torch is really fire right now
No
EDIT: LOL I WAS FIRST HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
real first comment.
YOOOO
FINALLY
@@Enter15_ty
@@riverslolty
Levi is not the kind of RUclipsr that says ``SoCcEr```he is a real one that says football