Non-Calvinist Explanation Of Romans 9
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- This is a series where I use the book of Galatians to help understand Paul's argument in Romans 9 and give a non-Calvinist interpretation of this difficult and often confused chapter of scripture.
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Critical Error of Calvinism Pt 1: ruclips.net/video/ygePIgd7DJU/видео.html
Critical Error of Calvinism Pt 2: ruclips.net/video/A23Mc_eqWu8/видео.html
Response to John Piper | Who Are God's Sheep?: ruclips.net/video/ZuX0RDll-fQ/видео.html
Is Faith A Work?: ruclips.net/video/ocEV7CznAz0/видео.html
Excellent truth here and much needed teaching. However, there is much more that Paul was trying to convey. Brother, you would thoroughly enjoy the book Jacob and Esau Two Nations and the Inheritance.
Your presentation is perfect, Jordan. Not offensive at all. Great job!
You have gained a subscriber my brother in Christ. May God bless and keep you
Praise God! Very informative. God bless you more brother!
How to go through Romans 9?
Research the history and culture around 58 AD. The book of Acts will also help with this. Understand the Ancient Eastern culture and take off the glasses of the Modern Western culture.
Start at Romans 1:1. Read all of Romans and every time the Old Testament is brought up you go back and read that section to let scripture interpret scripture. You do this all the way through Romans until you reach the end of Romans.
Done ✔️
Very nice work on this video!
Jordan! God bless you and your ministry! Keep up the great work and videos!
Thank you!
Are you serious the EISEGESIS is wild you can’t see it can you
🤦♂️
@@The_Biblical_Layman Hello, if anything, Calvinists do the eisegesis. They read into the text the thoughts of Martin Luther. Romans 9 has nothing to do with individual salvation but rather the use of an individual (Jacob) for the creation of a nation, Israel. This is also known as Corporate Election.
@@jonathan1192 wishful thinking try again
It’s not corporate election
@@The_Biblical_Layman we agree to disagree! God bless!
Hi Jordan,
Just started viewing your channel. Appreciate your humility and uncontentious approach of dealing with this matter.
Though I had a superficial understanding of Calvinism(predestination and once saved always saved) I was unaware of what they actually believed and promoted. I didn’t realize it’s infiltration and influence in modern day Christianity. From your research, what percentage of Christian churches actually promote Calvinism, and what denominations promote it the
most? Do you think it has been embraced in part in the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches? I just have a hard time believing that the majority of Christianity actually embraces this. Or is it only a minority that promote.
Thank you for your ministry brother!
Mark
Hi Mark, thanks for the encouragement. I'm probably not the best person to ask cause I really don't know what percentage of Christianity is really embracing it. I do think that many prominent pastors like John MacArthur, Piper, Sproul and the entirety of the gospel coalition have a lot of influence over a lot of Christians so that there are likely many people in many different denominations who are embracing at least aspects of Calvinism to certain degrees.
Only about 2% of Christendom and less than 30% of evangelical Christianity affirm Calvinism. However, Calvinists have been really good at promoting their views (Google search any theological topic and the top hits are generally from Calvinistic websites). They also tend to dominate the academic side of Christianity, which makes it seem like Calvinism is more prominent than it actually is.
Thank you both! Kinda figured that was the case. Very similar to the NAR, which most charismatics and pentecostals are not even aware of. Their teachings are slowly, but surely working their way into most of those churches. In either one of those cases, pride and arrogance seem to be the driving forces. Both of which Satan will utilize.
Calvinism is the most minority view in Christianity and especially amongst scholars with high view of scripture. Last time I checked , roughly 85% of christianity rejects calvinism and this is only amongst protestants.
I mean no offense to you, but you should learn the holy scriptures for yourself. Everything you need to know is in them, and they speak prominently of God's Ftee Grace in salvation. Jesus spoke of it the most. Though it is spelled out and clearly defined by Paul In Ephesians and romans and galatians and All the New Testament. Jesus said all that the father has given Him will come to Him. It matters not a bit what others think about scripture or humanity, election or free will....(BTW, free will is not 8n the bible, once but election is quite a bit ), but you will be held to account for what you teach and believe, not them. Learn for yourself, and may God grant you wisdom and understanding and make wise in your salvation. To God alone be Glory
They conflate & contrive to preserve their paradigm. Calvinist readers, please note these key vs' in Romans: 1:16-17, 2:4, 24, 3:3, 28-30, 4:3, 5, 11-12, 16, 5:1-2, 8-9, 18. Then Paul's conclusions of chptr 9 in 9:30-10:4, then 10:8-13 (how to be saved, all can be saved) 10:19-21, 11:23, 32, 16:25-27 Read it as a whole letter/Epistle as intended, instead of focussing on mid 9 like Alana was taught.
You went from Romans 9:30-33 to Romans 9:1-8, then Galatians, 1 Peter, etc. This is terrible. Such a refusal to walk through the text from left to right. 😩
You're so right on, The Spirit of God, has put this message , for us to put together as you have done well
Great job! I learned a lot listening to this
You don’t need to disprove the scriptures that support Calvinism; they need to disprove the scriptures that go against Calvinism.
You cannot have a “doctrine” where there are many scriptures that go against it.
ALL SCRIPTURE has to support a doctrine or it cannot be a biblical doctrine.
It’s that simple.
I’ve been watching your channel for a couple weeks now and these videos on Calvinism have been very helpful. Thank you for the content! Do you have any material on Romans 8:29-30?
I’m glad to know the videos are helpful! I don’t have a specific video on Romans 8 yet but it’s something I want to get to in the near future.
Would you please make another video like this and continue through the end of the chapter? 😃
Great video!! One question, what program or app did you use to make this video?
This is BRILLIANT!!!!
Making a response video to this probably this weekend. In short, my criticism will be, 1. The frame job done on the outset is not justifiable hermeneutically. 2. Paul is not speaking allegorically but historically and analogously (Jordan confuses allegory and analogy). 3. His contention is not that they misunderstood the condition and are thus offended at this great reveal. 4. Justification by faith is not Paul's context or point here, justification by faith is assumed, not illuminated in Rom. 9.
This is EXCELLENT 👍👍👍 God bless you brother
Thank you!
I am a dispensationalist and reject many of the ideas of covenant theology. Usually, the only verse given in support of calling the church "Israel" is Galatians 6:16 which really isn't clear as to whether it refers to the church or to the "true" Israelites by faith. However, I am noticing that Galatians 4:26 says that the heavenly Jerusalem is our mother. While it still falls short of calling the church Israel, the language is a bit similar by allegorically saying that we are born of the heavenly Jerusalem. Obviously, this means little towards justifying covenant theology, but I'm curious what some others might think about this verse and whether it suggests that we are a "spiritual Israel." I tend to prefer "sons of God" and "children of promise/Abraham."
Calvinist love to use that word “sovereign”. As if to prove their point. But God would not be God if He were not sovereign. It’s like saying water is wet. Well yeah. That is a given that does not need to be repeated to a thinking person.
ok good job, this is an important task. keep up the good work
🙂
This is very clear. Thank you.
What category does the concept of a person having to believe to be saved fall into? Grace or works?
At the 1:29:20 time frame you are stressing faith not works as you do that throughout. I agree that we are justified by faith alone. BUT at the timing mark are you saying that we do not have to repent from all know sin? There are many scriptures where we are admonished to stop sinning. Though we all struggle, if we have truly been born again and know what God’s word says concerning sin then we will want to turn away and I do believe we do have to put forth effort to do that. Jesus said if you love me you will obey me. Paul tells believers to put on the full armor of God.
2 Timothy 2:19 “Nevertheless, , the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “the Lord knows those who are his, “and, “everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness. “
The clarity 💎💧
The words and ways of the Lord are like a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal. It proceeds from the throne of God and of the Lamb as written in Revelation 22
God blessed you with beauty ❤️ God bless sister
3:09 straight out the gate with a big truth bomb
Thank you!
A Biblically coherent explanation of Romans 9
god love jacob and hates esau. plain as day and God does not change
@@thriftytraveler2001 yup, and context is key my friend:
ruclips.net/user/shortsNPcCBqHKs7M?si=xk5BBv4AhbizRwQU
Without proper context, we become inconsistent
This is an AWESOME video.
ruclips.net/video/3NMA-8PFkCE/видео.html
EXCELLENT VIDEO
49-55, But didn’t Abraham receive the promise of his son, then through that he became faithful, and it was that faith that counted him as righteous.
ESV reminds me of a Southern Baptist Bible. I did think about if you're a Southern Baptist. I also thought Arminian.
Anyone know the background music in the start of the video?
How can an unregenate person have faith?
Answer : By the Liberating power of Holy Spirit that liberates our 'bounded will' TO CHOOSE BETWEEN receiving gift of faith or rejecting gift of faith , this is what being implied from the teaching of the theologian reformer Philip Melanchton the protege of Martin Luther. This is where Arminius got his idea for the doctrine of prevenient grace.
In fact not only the receiving of the gift of faith but also nurturing and developing the gift of faith (through believing) is also through this 'liberated will' , the main point is Holy Spirit makes the 'liberating' but we do the choosing ---- meaning after being liberated to choose we still have to utilize and approriate this ' gift of choosing' BETWEEN two options.
Two people are offered the same grace by God. One chooses to believe, one refuses.
What then is the defining characteristic of salvation?
There's 3 possibilities. 1 of the 2 men simply doesn't believe. But, the other man which "believes" can either be a true born again believer (few) , or he can be a false believer (many).
Christ says there will be "many" unregenerates (false believers) professing to be born again. Matt 7:21-23
Christ says there will be few made a new creature and placed on the narrow way. Matt 7:14
The defining characteristic is truly the new birth, being born again from above by the will and grace of God alone. Effectual grace that transforms.
@ManassehJones when you say effectual grace, are you referring to irresistible salvation ? Is so, that's an utterly unbiblical assertion you've made . Per usual though .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Yea. Exactly, irresistible indeed. Me turning down the offer for forgiveness of my sin and escaping the damnation of hell for it, indeed was irresistible, and remains irresistible.
That offer is resistable to you?
@ManassehJones of course it was irresistible to me , that's why I'm a born again child of GOD . GOD made the offer, and I chose to take it . Thing is , that's not the calvinist definition of irresistible grace ( salvation ) and you know it .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 If it was irresistable to you then you really didn't "choose" it, seeing you had no choice. That's the definition of "irresistable."
So, what's your contention with others who profess it was irresistable?
49 minute mark. Genesis 3:15, 12:3, BINGO🙏❤️👍. The SEED is Yashua ha Mashiac..
I’m glad you got out of Calvinism, but you are still caught up in the paradigm regarding “sovereignty”, “election”, etc. And we are not “spiritual Israel” or “true Israel”. We are the body of Christ, the new creature, the fellowship of the mystery. Gotta rightly divide. 2 Tim 2:15
I’m glad I got out of free will
Who is true Israel Brother Wade ? Are you referring to the unique nature of the Pauline gospel ? Even if you are, I can't see what you mean by your true Israel statement. Please explain Brother.
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 true Israel is believing Israel, the remnant, who will enter the Millennial Kingdom under their New Covenant (JER 31:31-34, HEB 8:8-11) and have their sins forgiven, blotted out (Acts 3:19-21), get a new heart and a new spirit with the Holy Spirit causing them to keep His judgements and statues (Ezekiel 36:26-).
@@thewadester I can see where you come to that conclusion about the blood born Israelites . I'm not completely sure how the church is completely separated from that, though . Also, with that view you're obviously pretrib or mid trib eschatologically . I actually lean more towards that eschatological view as well . In your opinion, what role is the church playing during the millennial reign?
There is no calvinist who would disagree with you. It is by faith and repentance. That is one part you're missing. And first of all the work of the Holy Spirit. By which we are born again.
??? Did you watch the video? He is constantly bringing up what the bible says and showing how it contrasts what Calvinists believe.
I'll help you out.
I'm against suicide. I was depressed also to suicidal. I almost did suicide as a 5-Point Calvinist. And these scriptures got me more hope.
I became more Arminian now from these scriptures I posted on here. I believe people can fail salvation.
Loving God is wanting to be useful for him much. What if a person could do that much of his time? And I enjoy working from this. People who enjoy working. When it's more likely to be boring to non-Christians.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Mark 9:33 (V)They came to Capernaum; and when He was in (W)the house, He began to question them, "What were you discussing on the way?"
.
Mark 9:34 But they kept silent, for on the way (X)they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest.
.
Mark 9:35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and said to them, "(Y)If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."
.
Christian world domination. Why to raise kids Christians. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can!
This text could motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people, this world needs them.
Thanks!
Wow! Thank you David!
49:18 🎯
You seem to have negated the fact the God did indeed give the promise of the Land as an eternal inheritance to the Physical descends of Abraham l, Isaac and Jacob. Christ is the One through whom the whole earth is blessed. BUT that does not annul the Land promise in Genesis 13,15,22,28 ect. Although Christ is the heir of the world including the Land in the Millennial reign (Psalm 2).
True Israel are those Jews who have put faith in their Messiah. The rest have been temporarily hardened. But as it says in Romans 10 there is at this current time a remnant (of who??? Believing Israel)
Ok but the context of Roman’s is Israel and in Galatians it is the church
But if you read to the end of Romans 9, and especially leading into Romans 10 and 11, you see that we ARE a part of Israel. Not all who are born of Israel are of Israel, but we gentiles can be grafted in to receive the promise given to the seed of Abraham. The Church is a part of the true Israel.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 yes correct but the main theme is that God has not forsaken Israel
Just getting into this but in the first 3 minutes we have an incredible misunderstanding of the positions involved in Romans 9.
First.. the Calvinist position is that Paul is laboring to unpack why Israel has rejected Christ in faith. In other words.. their exclusion, although by the design of God isn’t explained by Romans 9 but rather why did they reject Christ? For Calvinists, election explains belief not the other way around as it is for conditionalists. Therefore the primary point of contention is that we have mass rejection of Christ by the Jews that is causing their exclusion… but God promised to include them… so what gives??
This is the spring board for Calvinists. Then their unbelief is explained… but that’s not the point in verses 1-5.
Moreover, the non Calvinist contention that Christ has chosen faith instead of works betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of OT salvation. It implies that everyone believed that salvation was of works.. but reading the OT we know that salvation has always been by faith and many believed and were justified in the OT. Therefore Paul is not addressing God’s choice of faith over works as though this was ever in dispute… rather, since God promised, quite literally that all of Israel would be his people, why do so few actually believe and are this cut off? To that point, it had never been explained.. ever. Making it a very important text… however, your explanation makes Romans 9 superfluous.. something that Paul had already addressed… it weakens, not strengthens your view.. with respect.
I’ll dig in some more.
would you call yourself Arminian?
Pretty sure he just calls himself a Christian.
In your description you mention nothing about Jesus or your faith. Most your videos are about Calvinism. I question your intentions, make more videos about what you believe.
This feels really difficult to understand and follow
They were chasing a form of righteousness not the righteousness of God. Not all Jews are children of the seed of Abraham. Only those who have Faith in Christ are children or are the seed of Abraham.
May I suggest you stop drawing over the scriptures, visually it distracts and prevents a clear mind to receive from Gods Spirit. Try to simply open the scriptures and look to God to aluminate His truth to the heart of the hearers. Because it is the Spirit of Gods job to teach all things. Talk slowly and with less wording. Rather than paraphrasing read distinctly the verse. A great Preacher once said - Willie Mullan , he said the less I say the better. It’s Gods Word read out and the less of my own words the better. So giving the understanding then quickly get back to the scriptures again. We believers are all learning.
Deut 4:2- Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Its a 2 hour video and have no time to finish listening before doing any critical counter argument.
But it would be safe to predict that Jordan will use his semi pelagian lens all through out the different passages to interpret his way of understanding. I undetstand it would make sense to lot of people who are predisposed to reject God's sovereignty in salvation in exchange for a more fair, palatable, loving God.
Both Arminians, Calvinists, Provisionists, semi pelagians can read their biases in Rom 9. They all agree faith is a human responsibility. The fundamental defining debate is "How one comes to faith?"
Is faith a final product of pagan libertarian philosophy? Semi pelagian super human ability? Or a gift from above? Phil 1:29, 1 peter 1:1, 2 Tim 2:26.
But Rom 9: 12 or 13 I believe also explicitly says that salvation which is the right context not faith is not ultimately a result of human works, human will, human merit before or after you are born but by the Sovereign grace of God that His purpose of grace by election might stand. It is of Him who calls not of man.
It is normal for arminians, provisionists, modern day pelagians to assume conditional election because man can manufacture the condition of faith.
But God said i think in v16( not sure if thats the right verse) " I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and compassion on whom I will have compassion". He did not say if You exercise your libertarian freewill or exercise semi inate super pelegian abilities. No that is assumed in the text. Rom 9 just says it does not depend on human desires or effort but on God's mercy.
We all come to faith in Christ regardless of your theology. The debate is How we get there. Who is the final cause?
Think about this. He draws you John 6:44, Spirit grants revel
ation to decipher the gospel or its foolishness to unregenerates 1 Cor 2:14, 1 Cor 1:18. Spirit convicts you of sin, God lifts the veil of blindness from Satan, commmands the light of the gospel to shine in your heart 2 Cor 4, He is the author and finisher our faith acc to Hebrews. If man can save himself, why does God have to grant all this grace prior to salvation?
Your only contribution is your sin which He nailed on the cross?
So what made you Jordan believe and your neighbor didn't? If its based on yourself manufacturing to meet the condition ? This kind of faith that you deny as work is still a human by product. You believed because you had better moral values, spiritual insight, virtue, smartness than you neighbor. If its not absolute grace that saved you then it was based on individual differences, merit, IQ, semi pelagian superiority to those like us who were totally depraved and dead. In heaven you can congratulate yourself you made the right choice, the ultimate man's determinstion. Good for you.
For us, we can trully thank God, His grace brought us to saving faith which was humanly impossible to produce apart from sovereign saving grace.
After reading every scholarly non-Calvinist and Calvinist I could get my hands on, I wrote the following concise walk through of chapter 9… I quite agree that the chapter underscores faith but not as mechanism for salvation, for that had always been the case, but rather, an explanation as to why so many Jews did not avail themselves of it, instead pursuing justification by works… a rejection of Christ doesn’t explain a rejection of Christ… it only restated the problem.. below you’ll find a much more linear understanding, I think.
1. God will not fail those in Christ. (8:39)
2. The Jews are cut off from Christ. (9:1-3)
3. The Jews had every natural reason and advantage to see God’s plan of salvation in Christ, but they rejected him. (9:4-5)
4. Elect national Israel has never really had any advantage due to physical heritage so the rejection of Christ by national Israel hasn’t nullified God’s word because the success of God’s promise has never been left to man’s response as seen in the Jews’ decision to reject Christ. True Israel, those who God chose, are those who God always intended by his promises. God’s choice conditions man’s choice, not the other way around. (9:6)
5. Even with their natural advantage, Jews have no real advantage because how God chooses one over the other never had to do with natural lineage. In fact, against every natural reason (a la Isaac’s improbable birth), God’s supernatural promise was fulfilled. So the rejection of Christ by Jews, though seemingly unnatural, is no defeater of God’s promise which has always been despite such considerations including a physical descendant like Ishmael being excluded. (9:7-9)
6. A further example shows that God’s choice was not to do with nor promise furthered by what he saw in man. God’s purpose of election continues despite what man would choose to do and thus God’s promise is still being kept even when bad is chosen, parallel to Jewish rejection of Christ. (9:10-13)
7. Paul's example raises a separate question of the fairness of God's selection. God’s mercy and compassion are given according to his will as the man’s will and actions of man are grammatically opposed to God's freedom. The Jewish rejection of Christ is again no problem because man’s will and his actions do not determine God’s faithfulness but his faithfulness determines man’s will and actions. At every point God's initiative is
grammatically opposed to what belongs to man to affect. (9:14-16)
8. An example of the aforementioned principle can be seen in God’s exchange with Moses and the hardening of Pharaoh. Pharaoh, as part of the negative bracket of God’s decision (rejection), sees a hardening not based in anything bad, a la Esau, and this was explicitly for a good purpose in making God’s name known: our first insight as to *why* God has purposed the original and parallel Jewish rejection of Christ. (9:17-18)
9. In reaction to the previous example, God’s purpose in glorifying his name seems to have made it such that those so prepared should not be condemned for their "hardness" paralleled to rejecting Christ. In mind must be the Jews (3:5), thus: How can God condemn the unbelieving Jews when they are really only serving the purpose he’s assigned those who reject Christ? (9:19)
10. The answer to the objection above is that God has a Creator’s authority to make people unto a salvific end or a damnable end as these are largely viewed as grammatically corresponding to those who received mercy or wrath relatively, also see 11:7 for election and hardening being unto eschatological ends. (9:20-21)
11. Paul addresses why God has purposed vessels thus. In keeping with v. 17 God has sought to reveal his power in the vessels of wrath and glory in vessels of mercy. (9:23-24)
12. Paul sees himself and some gentiles as the beneficiaries of God’s elective purpose as God chooses to demonstrate that he is free to elect Gentiles as well as Jews for his own purposes. Another promise is alluded to in Hosea (1:10) where those who are not God’s people will become (future) God’s people specifically applied to Gentiles. This promise too is fulfilled by God the same way as the one made to Jews. Their coming to Christ cannot fail for the same reason. Rejection or acceptance neither furthers nor prevents God’s purpose, but they are conditioned by it. (9:24-26)
13. The remnant is “left” by God who is the actor on theme with the earlier sections. Again, man’s decision to reject Christ cannot frustrate God’s forming his remnant among the Jews nor Jewish belief on Christ prevent God's reach to the Gentiles because God himself always furthered his kingdom, never dependent upon men in this sense Paul has expounded upon. (9:27-29)
14. Paul asks as to what the reader’s reaction should now be. As the question of God’s faithfulness in the face of Jewish rejection of Christ has been explained, he seeks to show how from personal motivations (as opposed to its divine purpose) their rejection has presented and rallies a ministry to them. (9:30-33)
There is no "non calvinist" explanation of Romans nine. Just thought you should know. If you have to work that hard to make the bible fit what you already believe....well that's a red flag warning. Honestly. It's so much easier just to receive The Word as revealed with joy than to try and explain why it doesn't mean just exactly what it says. When you do this you are saying your beliefs are more important than what God has revealed.
Hi John, I wonder if you even listened to what I said in this video before you commented? What you have just said is textbook "begging the question." Please understand that all you are saying here in essence is *"I believe Calvinism is true and therefore if you read Romans 9 you should see Calvinism in it because that's what I see in it!"*
This is incredibly circular. And the only thing you are ultimately "proving" or conveying here is that you believe in Calvinism and that Romans 9 teaches it and you do not like the fact that I don't see it that way.
I could quite easily take what you just said and put it back toward you and it would be equally valid... that is to say... it wouldn't be valid at all.
@@GreatLightStudios Good point. Others have pointed out that one of the tests for whether a person is begging the question is if you can say the same thing back to them, i.e. "There is no "calvinist" explanation of Romans nine. Just thought you should know. If you have to work that hard to make the bible fit what you already believe....well that's a red flag warning. Honestly. It's so much easier just to receive The Word as revealed with joy than to try and explain why it doesn't mean just exactly what it says. When you do this you are saying your beliefs are more important than what God has revealed." It's simply assertion.
What you just stated is literally holding your false beliefs above scripture because Romans 9 does not support Calvinism. If you actually read what it says without forcing unbiblical definitions and false doctrine upon the text, you wouldn't come to the conclusion you have. The Calvinist interpretation of Ch 9 is literally contrary to the rest of Romans including Ch 9.
If you cannot see that it is either because you've hardened your heart to the Truth unto death and you are irredeemable or you are demonically deceived and have demonic strongholds established by believing doctrines of demons or may have Calvinist demons indwelling in you. Most Calvinists have religious pride demons masquerading as counterfeit holy spirits keeping them enchained to false religion, dead in their religious pride, and blinded by self-righteousness. It's why they don't have genuine fruit or works of the Holy Spirit, no assurance, no real working faith, and God doesn't answer prayers and do miracles for them--they are not actually born again, Spirit-filled Christians. Calvinists are idolaters in God's eyes not the elect unto salvation (which isn't in the bible). You were coming to faith but were led astray by erroneous discipleship and demonically deceived into false religion before actually being saved and instead became an idolater worshiping a false image of God. Satan is the "God" in Calvinism and always has been.
When you repent of your unbelief and deception and are born again and filled with the Holy Spirit, you will be tempted by the devil to hate yourself for your heresy, but please don't. Receive God's grace and love and embrace your new identity in Christ. See you how God sees you and believe Him--as Jesus. Be free in Jesus' name!
This is exactly what Romans and Galatians say - they're by the same author and have the same theme. The Bible says to search the scriptures - not read it once and decide you know exactly what it says because Calvinists have explained it to you
@@tannerfrancisco8759I hit thumbs up. I totally agree that All-In Calvinists are of/controlled by a different spirit (lower case "s"). Personally, I don't lump them all in as "not born again". I will leave that up to God. Many have gone to youthcamp & received Jesus as Savior. But sadly & unfortunately when they got back home, unknowingly went with their friend to a Calvinist church & were fed Tulips. Many have listened to the Holy Spirit, like Alana & eventually came out of it's falsehoods & towards truth. Cornelius & Apollos come to mind as those with partial/limited understanding. But in their asking, seeking & knocking & hungering & thirsting after righteousness were rewarded.
I just heard through Andrew Farley (a non calvinist) that what Paul is talking about is the inclusion of the gentiles.... that THAT is the offense (not faith vs works)
See what happens when you don't follow Paul's argument verse by verse?
Even my Roman Catholic bible from 1884 (which has a commentary on the verses) does a better job on Romans 9 than non Calvinists of today.
Try Greg Bahnsen or John piper on this doctrine...they exegete the passages well.
I would avoid this teacher
You may be right about Romans 9 but this video does not prove it because what you are doing is not exegesis. To exegete the text one has to discover Paul’s argument by walking through the actual text in question not by going to another book and bringing his meaning in one context to bear on another text. Sometimes this might be necessary but it’s not how one should start.
Well, then you could read it all the way through and go back and look at how we equated it with the other scripture. The end result would be the same.
He twist the scripture to his own describe destruction
@@aletheia8054 maybe the result would be the same. I’m not trying to say the meaning differs from what he said but from this presentation in and of itself none of us know because he didn’t try and discover Paul’s meaning in Romans 9 from the context of Romans 9, the previous chapters (8,7, etc), and Romans as a whole. Exegesis is not done by jumping to other books written in other contexts to different audiences. The process he is using is more akin to a biblical or systematic theology but it is a mistake to then impose or read that into the argument in a particular passage of Scripture. They both have their place but not like this.
@@chrismabe2661 You can do exegesis by jumping to other verses, because one verse does nit stand by itself. It Equals other places in the Bible. You have to do that in order to understand the Bible.
But like I told him, just because you see 3+4, doesn’t mean it’s the same as 3+5 just because both have a 3 in it.
I think you’re seeing the same thing I saw. When he goes to another verse, it’s not equating back to Romans nine like he thinks it is.
@@chrismabe2661 What he’s doing is mixing truth with a lie. There’s truth in what he says, but it’s mixed in with the lies that he’s telling.
That’s a big deal in the Bible. The sons of God marrying the daughters of men.
@@aletheia8054 you only go to other parts after you’ve done all the hard work in the passage at hand and it’s still unclear.
you had a good run esau, we got next. God bless the twelve tribes worldwide
2 groups of Jews/ Judeans first century AD. Those that were going to get the gift of grace (the lost sheep) those that were not (God has not enabled you/ you are not my sheep/you can only come to me if the father draws you). The Jews/Judeans were the objects of Gods wrath in Romans 9 due to them sinning for 1400 years. He saved a remnant in the OT, and first century AD NT to preserve the lineage of the messiah as he had made promises to righteous Israelites/ Abraham, and just coz he loved the Israelites despite them being wicked degenerate idol worshippers worse than all the surrounding nations. The remnant was alive "at this time" in Romans. They all dead. Paul might of been one of them, same with Mary, Joseph, Peter. The 144 000 in Rev 7 was the remnant which is why it focuses on physical lineage when the NT says don't pay attention to it. Rev 1-12 happened first century AD. Rev 13-22 has not yet. The synagogue of satan (oral tradition in mark 7 / the pharisees) religion survived the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD, evolved into Talmudic Judaism (still synagogue of satan), and continued on until today. Mosaic Judaism was fulfilled in Jesus 2000 years ago, and no longer exists.
How to treat Calvinists - try to correct them then treat them as pagans, and tax collectors- aka ignore them. Never engage them on the bible again. If you can help it never talk to them again. They are doing the will of the devil despite being saved. They have curses on them from God for teaching a different gospel-possibly some of the Deuteronomy 28 curses.
2 timothy 2
24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
Galtians 1 [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ephesians 4 15
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.
Mathew 18 15
15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Historical context of predestination / election/ choseness in the NT- it says "we who were the first to put our faith in Christ" / " first fruits of the holy spirit" (day of pentecost). They all dead. It is no one for 1900 years .
2 groups of Christians over the past 2000 years- those predestined ones in the first century AD, and everyone else! Including Calvinists. Everyone else heard about Jesus through the oral teachings/writings aka the bible of the apostles.
Jesus praying a whole chapter for his predestined followers in the NT first century AD
John 17 20
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
Someone can interpret predestination differently however it is wrong, and the correct exegesis is historical context just like any other history book will be read.... it clearly says the audience, and who it is, and therefore who it is not.
next thing to happen in prophecy is 1948 Israel of the devil, and the star of David as the mark of the beast. Solomonic empire will be "re" built by the synagogue of satan. I would expect one of the beasts in Rev 13 to be called Solomon. Rev 17/18 is physical Jerusalem. Israel will be world empire, and physical Jerusalem will be capital of the world. "Come out of her my people partake not in her sins" - don't support satans chosen country!
second coming/rapture happened first century AD. It was reward for those predestined people (even though the apostles were killed). There are 3rd or 4th or 5th comings of Jesus in Rev 14 16 19 that have not happened yet. Revelation is in chronological order also.
Why didn't they believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah? What more could He have done? Can you explain why you, who didn't witness the miracles and testimony of of the Living Christ can believe, but they didn't or couldn't?
Think about the question you are asking Manny. Why didn't they believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah and I did? In your view, it's because God didn't want them to. He hated them. He called them to repentance even weeping over them while at the same time hiding the key to repentance behind his back. I cannot fathom why the Calvinist thinks that this sort of question you are presenting is even remotely close to the "gotcha" question that you think it is. It's a question that when objectively and rationally applied to Calvinism demonstrates how self-refuting and entirely untenable the system is.
Why do some believe and others don't?
Why do some unregenerate husbands choose to act lovingly and humbly toward their wives and others don't?
But why? It seems so obvious to us believers. Why couldn't they be persuaded? They are in hell right now. So sad that there was no one there that loved them enough to force them to believe, or they just didn't keep begging them to believe, like a few did. A tiny few. I think more effort on behalf of man could've made a difference, don't you? Just seems like there wasn't enough pleading and persuading from loved ones to me. This is mans fault. Not the fault of the unbelievers, but the tiny few believers that didn't spend enough time with them. But, like all Self Determinists say, "They didn't believe like I did, so just as we want to be judged for our believing within our selves, they deserve being judged for not believing like I was able to."
Just so sad, though, isnt it?
I am eternally grateful to God for giving me His grace and Christs faith in believing. An effectual gift that was too good to say no to. An irresistible gift that promised me repentance, a new heart, and the mind of Christ. Who could possibly resist such a blessed gift. I love Him because He first loved me. Thanks be to God and the Lord Jesus Christ, because the only thing seperating me from the unbelievers is the glorious grace of God.
@@ManassehJonesAre you a Calvinist? You believe Gods grace alone is why you became a Christian and believe in Jesus?
@@T.Hydenberger I am not a Calvinist, and yes, I know the ONLY power that exists in all of eternity to cause me to be a son of God is the effectual power of Gods grace alone. I contributed nothing but my sin. God alone called me, the faith and perfect obedience of Jesus Christ alone saves me, and the Spirit of God and Christ that resides in the Temple of this body sanctifies me and will glorify me by His power alone.
I did not choose God whilst being unjust and ungodly, it is God that chose me.
All praises and glory and honor to the Most High, and the Lord Jesus Christ for His unspeakable gift.
It was a freewill explanation of Romans nine.
Exactly ! A true explanation of romans 9 instead of a calvingnostic fallacy of romans 9 . He completely backed up everything he said soundly with the biblical texts and it was harmonious to the T and you can't possibly refute what he has said while being scripturally consistent within the texts alone.
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 freewill is a lie
This is why you have to study the Bible for a lot more years.
Because when you go to another verse in scripture to explain another one, you’re not going to one that’s equal to it
3 + 2 does not equal 4 + 3 just because both of them have a 3 in it.
Lol😂😂😂😂. You're sounding more and more like a Muslim apologist aletheia. Then again you possess the same theological distinctives as Muslims who got their theological influence from the same source as calvinists whether you realize it or not. I've actually told you this before , so it's obvious that you don't care enough to research the truth I've told you .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421. Yeah, the truth sounds like foolishness to those who are perishing.
@@aletheia8054 it sure does . Wake up
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 I am awake
Zoomorphos
The fact that your only response on every video has become about my age and not the arguments says very much. This is troll level commenting on your part.
A question of interpretation
Ever since scripture was written people have interpretated it differently
The Holy Spirit is the infallable
Teacher he will teach you all
Things and guide you into all
Truth
Spend time with him with your
Bible avoid other preachers
They can only give you their
Interpretation
Remember Holy Spirit and Holy Scripture they blend
Together
The elect will not be deceived!
I think Offspring and Seed are plural. When I see a herd of sheep or deer I don't say "look at the sheeps or look at the deers.
Genesis 3:15, 12:3, is Christ.
I asked "why couldn't most of the Jews believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Nobody answered. So I asked my Lord why they didn't believe, and He answered. Can anyone here define the word "because" for me?
John 10:25-30
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.But ye believe not, 👉 because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
Thanks be to God for His Word. Otherwise we need to listen to men.
Thank you for sharing that.
Because is the cause that be. 😊
@@T.Hydenberger I don't hear "Thank you" very often. Thank the Lord if He spoke to your heart.
@@aletheia8054 It is. Praise God He caused us to be, Brother.
@@ManassehJones 👊🏾
This is the worse explanation I have ever heard on this chapter.
The EISEGESIS is other level
The I’m going to prove my point and at the same time throw shade at calvinism
Wow this is so crazy
Can you actually explain how ANYTHING he said is wrong or disagrees with scripture? Maybe you should re-read Romans...
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 are you serious? He spent more time outside the chapter than inside of it.
The run around to get to His conclusion
It’s EISEGESIS at its core. He changed the message of Paul from individuals and the nation of Israel
To faith and law
EISEGESIS
@@The_Biblical_Layman It's actually great bible study, and you seem to have no actual objections of substance? I mean, can you explain how ANY of what he said is wrong? He's not wrong simply because he doesn't agree with you. And it's not at all eisegesis; he's looking at what the very same author had argued elsewhere, in a similar way. It's absolutely relevant.
He's simply looking at scripture in context, and often asking very good questions that should help make the Calvinist think.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 wrong and wrong.
That’s not context you look at the passage than harmonize it not look at other passages and bring it to the text and insert your own opinion and thoughts.
Paul is not talking about faith or law
And don’t worry my video with rebuttals is on its way!
@@The_Biblical_Layman But Paul IS talking about faith and the law, that's why chapter 9 ends the way it does.
He's showing the whole way that God is the one that chooses who can be a part of His people, and He's chosen to give His righteousness to those who seek Him by faith.