In the first 6 months of my relationship with my ex he said, I know how to f@ck with people's heads. And naive 21yr old me had no idea what he was talking about and thought little about it. Now I often think about Maya Angelou's quote "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". This gem would have saved me a lot of pain.
One of the ones I encountered claimed he didn't know why no one would stay around. Within 3 months I wanted him gone, and he had conned me into letting me move in. He acted so horrible and had the eggshells out within 1.5 months. I went to stay at his homeplace. His parents were deeply religious supposedly. First thing they made us do was get a marriage license. Promised, assured, swore to me it would never be turned in. When I fled, they were threatening to turn it in and have me committed for daring to leave the situation. Fortunately it was expired when I couldn't take the controlling, sneaky, manipulative behavior anymore.
My ex would get very drunk and admit "I don't think like normal people". Thought it was just the booze talking cuz when sober she'd pretend that she didn't say that. Wish I would have known maya's quote back then
@Sandi Isherwood I feel for you. My daughter-in-law is the same. I was banned 5 years ago. She convinced my son that I was the problem after living with me for 5 years rent free. I bent over backward to help them. I was cut off 5 years ago. Only her family matters. Her parents told her to get an abortion or never come home. I heard about how she was locked outside at 5 years old. All of the things that her family did to her. Both of her parents are functioning alcoholics. I don't drink. I had to raise children and I never had time to party. At any rate,she has told all of my son's friends who used to see them,that she just can't have any of my son's family around because we are all mentally ill. She told them that I wanted to take their 4 th daughter away and raise her. I found out that after I had not seen them for 3 years about that. My oldest granddaughter called me to tell me that it was my fault that none of her dad's friends would go up and visit anymore. So much more that I could write a book. I have given them to God. I can't put myself in that position anymore. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.
Fantastic video full of helpful information. There is so much to learn as it relates to narcissism that I already knew. I hope you understand what I mean. 🤔
Same here and also my relationship with my son..I know he knows now who he married but he stays for the kids …they too will grow up and the marriage will be over…I hope I get to live to see it
I have found in my experience most narcissist are spoiled brats who were always given their way, never told no or given adequate discipline or boundaries
Not always. Some of them come from very troubled backgrounds that may have involved dire poverty, domestic abuse, and early childhood trauma. This causes them to be "set" as emotionally stunted people who create false selves to cope with life.
My narcissistic mother grew up in the Depression. She was deprived and poor. Her father was violent and her uncle sexually abused her cousins. My sister and I are sure she was sexually abused too
True, I have a sister in law,the youngest whom the mother in law babies and made excuses for all the time who is the most manipulative dramatic and professional victim I've ever met. I believe her mother spoiled her out of guilt .which i won't describe here.
What amazes me about toxic people is their claim that they don’t like drama, but drama seems to follow them wherever they go. They essentially create chaos and drama but claim they never had anything to do about it. That blows me away.
My 2 granddaughters have put the whole family against me...they've done such a good job...no-one sticks up for this 70 year old Gr. Grandma...go figure.....😢🤮💔
If you are manipulative then you don't need anger! Narcists use anti-social behavior (glibness, hypocrisy, invalidation, alienation, triangulation, gaslighting and projection) to control others, it has a PTSD effect on their victims. The motive is the key, it is ok to get angry if someone is hurting others. A narcissist gets angry in protection of their ego.
@@AnnieGrace777 Yeah, They compete with their spouse, children and other family members for resources and attention, it is counter productive. They are weak and fearful the opposite of what God wants for us! The fact that you don't participate means you are strong!
Yep. My older brother is all you said and when he ( over 55 yrs old ) does not get his way, he goes into revenge mode and will wait to get you back. I recently said NO to him about something....so I know he's cooking up a humiliation or a smear or something. He always does........he also never gives up ..if you say No he will still try and manipulate you to eventually give in ....he gets off on winning getting and taking...
Googlieking - You worded it perfectly: If you are manipulative then you don’t need anger. I’m finding most speakers are not coupling these two factors together. The manipulator uses control in such a stealth and skilled manner. It’s sinister. Psychological abuse makes one crazy enough to strike out in rage, not the other way around.
I only found out two years ago I had CPTSD from my covert Narc mother and my Ex, who has exactly the same type of Narcissism, reactivated these feelings in me. So- a "man" who isn't able to handle his life and never had a real relationship at the age of 40, broke me to the point of wanting to end my life. All of this without anyone having a clue, totally invisibly. People who know him for 25 years only think the best of him.
I don't agree on what you say regarding anger, though. I couldn't see it in my Ex when we were together, he was quite able to control himself. but thinking about situations after splitting up, I realised he is VERY angry. He gets like a certain type of look with his eyes, his body gets stiff or he bites his fingernails and the skin until it bled. Same with my vulnerable Ex
I reached a point where it felt less like walking on eggshells and more like walking through a minefield! I never knew what was going to make him go off on me. It was pure insanity!
Christmas 2022 we (cousins) had a holiday meal without narcissists (parents). We had a calm, civil, pleasant day (relief). That confirmed it wasn't me or us (cousins) and I realized I was ok and the parents WERE the ones with the problems, I'm so tired of hearing how I, or, we cousins cause all the issues. Leave out the narcissists and there's no issues!
Oh yes...I can relate. As sad as this is, it took several deaths (of the worst perpetrators) in the family to finally, after decades of chaos, dysfunction, and acrimony, restore a sense of peace and love amongst remaining members. Having fully recognized the source of discontent long before, we were all so thankful and grateful that we had that time, no matter the length of time we would have it.
I love Kati's take. When you understand how fragile narcissists are, you see them as they really are. When you see them as aggressive, powerful, and even evil, you give them power. When you see them as pathetic, and fragile... they will hate you with a passion because you see the part of them that they are desperately trying to hide. When you extend them compassion... they hate you as much as they hate the part themselves that they are desperate to hide.
From my experience, seeing the narc for who they are is needed. However, narcissist aren't fragile. And calling them pathetic is what actually feeds them power, because now you (not you personally but in general) have become narcissistic by name calling and that gives them the legal right to see you (in general) as their equal. Meaning, you are just like them. God corrected me when in my hurt and anger I called them a name, and God stopped me and told me "You cannot become like them. Guard your tongue" Then again, this is my experience.
@@DigMinistries2911 I did absolutely no "name calling" as you put it. Nor did I ever suggest name calling, I haven't spoken to the known narcs in my life in over eight years. One of them more than fifteen years. The remaining one, I speak to only through a lawyer as he is obstructing my mother's will. Narcissists are like frightened animals. They will bite and lash out at you at any and every opportunity. People with strength of character are not like that. Happy people are not like that. Only miserable, self loathing people do that. Why mess with them? Their inner demons will do more to them than you could even imagine. Why feed the flames? I am glad "God" corrected you... but really, there are plenty of people like myself that will tell you to just ghost them. Weird you felt the need to get "God" involved. I would have thought He had more important things on His mind.
@@fredhubbard7210 people read the weirdest things into comments sometimes 🤦. Great point about the n hating compassion, being fragile & pathetic. That underlies it all & is the thing to keep in mind. Sure, they can seem evil, bigger than life. They're just.... Transparently pathetic. Good luck with the will. I'll be in the exact same spot soon, not looking forward to it. Draining.
@@fredhubbard7210 I’m absolutely sorry that happened to you. And I hope that issue with your mothers will get resolved fairly. Things like that can get messy please read my comment again. I had already pointed out that it wasn’t you personally who used name calling. And also, I used my personal experience. And from my personal experience, what you are describing are effects and symptoms of a victim of narcissistic abuse. Not a narcissist. What you are describing is the damage caused by a narcissist, or narcissistic person. Also, (from my experience) after a narcissist (or narcissistic person) inflects harm on another person (in my case, it was spiritual and mental) the victim becomes paranoid, untrusting, and they search for answers towards what they have experienced. Their emotional levels are unstable, and they aren’t able to properly express what they are feeling. They self gaslight (which will cause them to seem mentally unstable) after being gaslighted by the narcissist or narcissistic person. Depression settles in, isolation, anxiety and nervousness because they can’t stop thinking about the situation or incident that ultimately altered them. And usually, it’s to stop the destiny of the victim.
They can say sorry, but when they revert to the same thing you bring up to them, and it keeps happening, then something ain’t right and their sorry isn’t real.
Yes it's evil to me, when someone can act and say I love you, then turn around and act like your nobody to them. They never cared from the start. They can turn the emotions on and off whenever they feel. With no remorse. It's just all a game to them.
especially when they claim to be christian and gaslight u with their projections and say theu have light of christ. Smh., never accountable and hide behind bible quotations
You will know them by their fruits. Words does not count, life does. We are living in confusing and troublesome times. Look at Christ, he died for sinners, not for the "righteous" for before God no one is righteous (Romans 3:23) but God can transform a life if we confess our sin and receive His grace.
Please do something on how narcissists affect kids in the short and long run. They really destroy their children’s lives and it takes years, even decades to deal with the effects.
I think they compete with their spouse, children and other family members for resources and attention, it is counter productive. They are weak and fearful the opposite of what God wants for us! The fact that you don't participate means you are strong!
@@googlieking I’m not strong, that’s why I got myself into such a situation. It’s thanks to this site and others like it that I have become stronger. Information makes us stronger and that is why narcissists don’t want us seeing things like us. I feel sorry for those in the past and those now who were:are under the clutches of narcissism and don’t have access to such life changing information. For years I thought I was the one doing wrong when all along it was my partner who was destroying me and my daughter’s lives. Don’t be an enabler. Get out is all I can say.
Condescending, contemptuous & manipulative, the narcissist in a nutshell .......... "I'm sorry that's what you think" "I'm sorry you feel like that" translates to "I'm sorry you think you can call me out & think that I even care enough to actually acknowledge I did anything wrong to you"
What amazes me is - they ( the Narc ) eventually see the same results time & time again from their behavior - yet their ego is so huge that they never thinks it’s them, they want everyone else to be the fall guy. Don’t they get tired of losing all the time ? I think their shame is their own unwillingness to change for the sake of others. They’re very, very selfish people !
The 'walking on eggshells' feeling was something I felt from the start, but not knowing anything about narcissism, I didn't see it as a red flag. Turning it around...oh yeah, like telling me I "just chose to be hurt". There was so much more. Thanks Dr C for the chance to hear another view.
Walking on eggshells, censoring yourself before youy say anything puts soo much stress, it's exhausting. I only realized it and connected the dots after I learned about narcissist disorder. I understood that whatever I say or do can be used against me, misinterpreted, used to hurt, cause seething remarks or lashing out. So I'm learning not to tale anything personally. I noticed the older the narcissist gets the more irritable they become with more frequent outbursts of nastiness.
If you pay attention you will notice the subtle signs of rage brewing and simmering in the clenching of their jaw muscles, the tension you begin to feel in your body due to the constant tension they carry within, the contemptuous facial expressions and expressions. If you question your sanity,intuition and begin to believe you’re the disordered one a good read is Emotional Contagion. If you’re around them for long periods of time, you will become like them, live an unlived morally deficient low quality life. The walking on eggshells is the damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If you feel despair, dread, existential hopelessness and growth is non- existent, there’s a good probability that you are around a disordered person(s).
I have become hyper aware of those signs, the jaw clench, the thinning of the lips, the slight widening of the eyes and drop in blinking frequency combined with the increasing time looking directly at you, the slight change in tone... Etc All of these are precursors and sometimes I can do or say something to steer the situation away from the cliff... And sometimes I can't.
I've just learned that my adult son is a narcissist. I didn't know what I was dealing with until this week. So thankful to have a name for it and a way to learn about it. I saw his face doing what you described here just the other day. I found myself walking on eggshells, trying to provide comic relief, all to no avail. He started to rage about what church his father and I attend, as it doesn't meet with his "approval." I could see him seething just under the surface, shortly before his outburst. It's always so upsetting. Then he left in a huff, followed by 5-10 paragraph texts, with name calling and gas-lighting. The insanity has been called to a halt now, thankfully. No more contact. We just can't deal with it anymore. It's all so clear to us suddenly, after years of confusion and chaos!
The first indication I have that someone is a narcissist is how they react when someone tells them, "No." That's when you realize their fury is just beneath the surface.
Indeed! And whenever we differentiate ourselves from the narcissists in any way. They are not interested in a person's uniqueness unless of course that uniqueness can be manipulated in a self-serving way shorrt or very long term. Dr. C has referred to it as the long con as well. I have found this to be true with some individuals and within some larger organizations and groups. You know it when you see it. Their patterns become increasingly clear and absolutely repetitive. Now we know and continue choosing heathier alternatives, including creating our own. 🦉🙂🙏
You may not have cause to say "no" during the love-bombing, but there'll be some boundary they'll push. Even "not yet/now" gets an oddly disproportionate show of petulance or aggression. Also look for them telling you how honest/trustworthy they are, and the unsolicited advice about everything. Thats my trifecta of red flags now.
Their vindictiveness is pure sadistic and devastating because it affects so many aspects of your life. They want to harm, emotionally, physically, mentally and psychologically. It doesn’t matter who is in their way, they enjoy making you hyper-vigilant with fear everyday of your life.
I had NO IDEA 🤷♀️ when I married that there was ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN PEOPLE!!! Sadistic, cruel, vindictive, manipulations of every description and LIES THAT YOU NEVER SEE COMING!!! HOW??? HOW??? Do you purposely DESTROY the lives of the innocent people and children that are in Your orbit???!!! I plead with the Narcissist husband ; reasoned, encouraged;humbled to the point of nothing ingness my personal cares and opinion; I left for my mental health and came back to TRY: some MORE!! I was exhausted from never being able to do or be enough for him . Aarrgghh🤦♀️😖😭😳
Many of us dont have people in our lives for a wide variety of reasons, who are rhere to form those healthy relationships. Dr c dr ramini and jerry wise have been whats shown me what healthy is. The midweeks especially and people sharing experiences has been invaluable! Real, raw and authentic. Saving lives, helping people heal and be their best selves. Thanks to all 👏👏👋
I've known many narcissists, and I've always found it rather ironic that they invariably want to blare to the world that they're "*CONFIDENT,"* yet they crave constant praise and validation; they literally cannot get enough. On the other end of the spectrum, I've known a few (I can think of two, offhand) truly confident people, and they calmly did what they did, knowing they were excellent at it, enjoying the accolades when they came, but not demanding them.
True, I know one who spent hours going to several different stores trying to find the right party favors to impress the guests and ended up causing him and the 3 people in the car to be hours late for a 90 yr old relative's big birthday party and those trinkets didn't have the desired effect.
He said a narcissist finds your faults and then camps out on them. So true. And the worst part about is they will try to draw out scenarios in which they can place you back ino that faulty version of yourself. And even if the alleged "faulty" behavior isn't that bad or entirely true, nor is the scenario they are now painting you into....it matters not. In their eyes they have proven that you are still the same old monster you have always been, and boy are they going to let you know about it!
Especially when you stand up to them, they’ll back down! Then black sheep roles switch around in the family dynamics. Be prepared to experience manipulation, lies, & more chaos & drama. They pit family members against each other & their off spring are bullies. They’re demons.
So informative. Fight, flight, freeze and fawn, wow the narcissists really do a number on our psyches! You need a dictionary just to keep up with all the responses that our nervous systems have to endure. Thanks Kati and Dr C.
Not just emtional chaos, but physical aliments too. I was so often ill during the 30 years I was married to my narc husband. Now at 77. I have aliments that probably can be traced to my treatment by my ex.
There is a lot of emphasis on staying cool and collected, but in my experience this does not stop the abuse. I was polite, cool, and collected for 15 years while my sister attacked me at any time that we were together, usually several times a year. The abuse got worse, not better. So on Dec 31, 2023, I finally said, "F*** off." I was not out of control. I knew exactly what I was doing and I planned it. I may have LOOKED out of control, but the intent was: If you step to me again, this is what will happen: there will be repercussions. It may be that Ns "love" this drama, but I have tried every single other tactic and none of them have worked. I am hoping that fighting back might finally work with this particular N, or make her think twice. If you are "good" when they are bad, they think you are a wuss and deserve to be bullied.
Yes! Suddenly you go from being an extension of them to joining every other “low value person” conspiring to keep them down. You are “not on their side” as soon as you have a separate opinion
A family lady who is a Narcissist took me for a ride. She now wants to "train" me to be proper. I am 65 years old and refuse to deal with her ever again.
Thank you both for spreading the word about this awful mental condition called narcissism.. It took me 20 years to realize that one of my daughter-in-laws is a narcissist. She has ruined my son, is still working on ruining my relationship with my grandchildren. She spews poison throughout my family. While I was trying to figure out “what was wrong”, I began to read and came across descriptions of narcissists. My son is now miserable and irritable. He has become like her and gaslights me on a dime. He denies everything. Her parents and sister are also her partners in crime. My boundary is that I don’t go to their home anymore. That’s a great relief for me. I turn my phone off because I don’t want to hear from my son, for now anyway. I’m retired and go out each day and make it my goal each day to live a good life and love the other grandkids in my life. Walk a lot to combat the depression. Enjoy each day by treating yourself and others well and with kindness. Thank you again for spreading knowledge about NPD.
Dread. We feel lots of dread. Walking on egg shells while forced to wear a heavy wet stinky coat and smile while convincingly saying Your amazing! Im so lucky.
When I truly realized what he was, I saw a monster. 32 years , culminating in me taking care of him during what was the last 4 months of his life. That was a year ago,but right before he died, he felt the need to “come clean” about his side trash in another city….what a legacy to leave for the family, so painful and destructive. For anyone on the fence about leaving, you deserve to be with people who give you peace and love. Being alone is sooooooo much better, no insults, lying, humiliation, my every move narrated, …no more and from now on, it’s all about me
I hate Narcs there alway dificult to get along with you can't even have a simple conversation and express your opinion with them before you know it,it turns into an explosive rage.
I married someone who is a narcissist. He’s so super unhappy and focused on the negative. I’m going to take a break this summer - get away for a few weeks to reconnect to my happy place. He’s a lot better when I distance and don’t expect much. I’ve accepted that the kind, authentic love story I wanted is not going to happen.
To Concerned G. Your comment about distancing and lowering your expectations spoke volumes to me. I've realized how much these two simple actions have helped me deal with my narc partner of 10 yrs. And that 'happy place' is the calm cove I return, to escape the high seas storms. Thanks to Dr. C. and good luck to you.
The best thing in life is when narcissists makes you stronger, wiser and better. Being able to be grateful and thankful dealing and coping with narcissists shows how the enemy is weak and messed up at their own games. I am 65 years, eleven months and 26 days as of my comments. Watching them self-destruct is an atrocity to witness. Having love, compassion, and resources left is proof how staying ahead of the narcissist bullshit. Taking care of myself keeping it seriously simple aka KISS is the best advice. Thank for reading my comments. Smiles
The 2 of you are absolutely the best. Describes my 26 year marriage exactly. Thanks to my therapist (YOU go get thearpy...says the narc. Best idea ever.); joining a womens chorus; and your videos, I'm thriving with a new (5 years) hubby. It's sad but I felt like he was going to drown with or without my "help" and I had just enough energy to swim to shore.
I fell for the bait and got sucked into the chaos. I found myself acting way out of character and the only way to stop that was to get away. I’d never behaved so out of character and she nearly had me convinced that was just how I am. I had to ask my ex girlfriends if I’m that person. I am not. I asked her ex who she said was lovely and on good terms with if she was that person. She is. Get out, it’s the only way. Good luck x
It's wild when it finally hits you that you've been working for a person who fits on the higher end of the narcissistic spectrum, and all the pieces start coming together, all the little moments where you felt something was off....and you finally get it. Their facade was extremely convincing. But I see it now....nothing but a house of cards. I have quit my position and will now embrace freedom and health. Thank you both ❤
Excellent. Having come from that toxic environment myself, I wholeheartedly embrace your freedom. It is completely liberating when you are out from under their thumbs.
Thank you for the self preservation comment. I’m looking for my voice and mostly realize what had happen to me over 24 yrs. Last fall I stopped being his supply. I saw no joy in him, I was sick of isolation and no comments on our lives together. Thank you for this knowledge. I found his social media & knew I was on the right path to make him leave.
I recently went no contact with a covert narcissist and have experience everything you guys are talking about. I'm still feeling confused and feeling guilty . I am an empath and I did see his sadness that's what kept me with him for 16yrs
I love the work of today's guest, Kati Morgan. Listened to her since she first began presenting on RUclips. Dr. C., so glad you brought her aboard today. Thumbs up!! :)
Thanks for explaining the fawning response of the adult child of a narcissist who has tried other responses and is desperate to do it right and avoid being hurt again, and in so doing, strengthens the trauma bond. Appealing to truth was my crime. False hope and assumptions like "all mothers love their children" and "everyone wants a happy family" kept me stuck.
Thank you, Dr. Carter, for having Kati as a guest on your program. She is such a pleasant lady. It was a joy listening to your interaction with her. As usual, each of your videos deepens my understanding of narcissism and is helping me greatly as I try to heal from extreme abuse from my narcissistic husband. Thank you, Dr. Carter for all you are doing to help us heal. You are an absolute treasure. Lu
Dr C is an amazing individual. What he has taken on is one of the hardest of challenges.. to deal with an incurable personality disorder that creates so much negativity & disregulated havoc on planet! An award is due.
Of you try to remove yourself from a situation calmly then that wont solve it. At least from my experience the person will stew and stew and the tension will simply ramp till its spoken out. It wont go back to baseline uncomfortable by itself. And what I was told is that the person felt bad and needed my apology to feel okay again. I understand at this point so I apologized. But even stopping an argument doesn't calm things down is my point. The person simply wont stop till they get validated and you bow down.
Super chat between our good Dr. C and guest Kati Morton! Golden nuggets and advice. I was encouraged to take my "Breath IN! ", knowing my 'wise mind' from my 'emotional mind,' and an atta-girl toward staying my resilient self. We can become chaos-free!!! We deserve the love we gave, the self that was discarded. We are not trash.
Very authentic comment. We the empaths are authentic people. We loose so much of the reality that we build over time. The narc comes in and poof ,what happens ? It is our right to get back to what we had.
I gave up on ex narc it was a complete hell. Mind games like crazy & no accountability at all. They literally all mental & very unstable..You do need to stay away from them & no contact
This is so spot on, I told my ex narc that we both had past wounds we needed to heal so we could be better for each other. Two days later he had blocked me and was in a new relationship, 2 weeks later engaged and within a month of our break-up he was married. I remember one of the last things he said to me was “are you sure you want to do this” I remember it sounding so cruel and calculated.
The nastiest trauma appears to come from the fact that covert narcissists consciously hide their very bad behaviour. Dis-regulated RAGES and CONTROL issues. They know it! But they don't know how they have a character issue and how damaging it is to people around them. These people need to learn and change.. somehow ..but the first line of defence is getting to outsmart them. Thanks for the session. Will check your books out. :)
I had to go no contact. It is my father. His last words to me was he hates me. My brothers hate me and the world hates me so I should go home and take myself out of it because I am such a f up.
@@ladyluck5248 I am in no contact, but they still maintain their false reality and then twist it around to incorporate my ´no contact.´ I didn't show up to my father's funeral. Why? Because of the narcissists that staged it. So how did they respond? Gaslighting me. Like nothing happened. ait was unpredictably predictable. And I was worried about my impact on them? I definitely will not live in this manner. It's a fantasy. It's so immature. I can only laugh at it. It really is hilarious. We simply can't take their fake lifestyle seriously. I go to the gym and I love myself. They hate themselves, are miserable & have no idea how sick that can make them. Cancer, ulcers, lack of sleep, victimhood. Who knows what they can experience. Forget it. Not in my life :)
@@majestic.feminine I completely agree. My brother came at me with some horrid texts that he denies sending me at my fathers wedding. I told him that since he never gave me the benefit of a discussion, he has lost the right to EVER speak to me again. I awoke the next day to texts accusing me of each and every single family problem since our mother died 37 years ago : including his DUI’s. It laughable. I’m done.
I have a narcissist mother and I try to keep my visits with her as short as possible and I find out later through other family members that she complains about what short of a visit it was. I hate going by myself, it's so awkward there's really nothing much to talk about. I've been hurt by her so many times that I have nothing I wanna share with her in regards to my personal life.
Me too. 😔 I had to go no contact because I got to the point that her crushing abuse was making me sick. I had to choose my life. She still won’t leave me alone though. Flying monkeys-I’ve blocked my phone, e-mail, etc. I got a PO Box so she wouldn’t know where I live but she somehow found out. Now she leaves stuff on my doorstep gaslighting me, and letting me know that she knows where I live. It’s awful - I’m thinking about moving out of state. If I’m as awful as she tells everyone I am (telling people I’m “sick” at my brother’s memorial) then why doesn’t she just stay away!
I listen to this and its my life. I spent 12 years with my wife and until recently, had no idea that i was in a relationship with a narcissist. I always knew she started trouble and was controlling. It wasn't as noticeable when i worked and it was just me that she controlled. But when we had a son, cleaning services, a babysitter, she got a job, and i went back for my MBA. She couldn't keep up with controlling everyone. To keep a close watch, she gave up bathing and caring for herself. She didn't even leave the home anymore. She said that she was the only one doing everything and she couldn't take care of herself bc she's keeping it altogether and no one helps her. You'd be surprised how they can kick up arguments out of no where and circulate the conversation. The issue for me was that i couldn't participate anymore. I had coursework, a job, and a son who i spent lots of time with. I spent much time with him to offset the control she put on him. Basically, i tuned her out and didn't listen anymore. She started slandering me to anyone who would listen to her. She said i was cheating, using drugs, dealing drugs, manipulating her, beating her, and stealing. When i found out, i went totally silent. She started showering, looking pretty, cooking again, cozying up to me. I wasnt having it unless serious change occurred. She went to the store, i was sitting at the kitchen table on my laptop, 2 police officers knocked on my door, and removed me from my home. My home, the one i bought 2 years before i married her.
@@ann_hey7027 there was nothing. No domestic violence. Nothing. She filed a police report saying harassment with a history of past domestic violence. It was all fabricated. The police, the lawyers, judge all knew. 10k later, it was dismissed yesterday.
Another great interview. I can testify to the thing she said at the beginning where you may not see the narcissist for what they are until you say 'no.' (At least that's what I think she said.) My sisters and I are all in our 50s and 60s, and when my therapist first said "they sound like narcissists," I disagreed. It's only as the events that triggered my saying 'no' to them unfolded (involving my mom's estate) and as I learned more about narcissism that I've come to firmly believe my therapist was right. It's hard not to feel stupid for not seeing the signs much earlier. Of course, I'm not trained in psychology, so ... I did know on some level that saying 'no' would lead to a god-awful struggle. I'm pretty non-confrontational, so I just gave in a lot. I finally found something I wanted to stand my ground on, and, wow!, the lies, the smears, the over-the-top cruelty. How did I not see this before?
I think it's important to stay open minded to the idea that the people closest to us could betray us. So to not only be your own protector and be a vigilant person in general, but if someone warns you, not to immediately say no and close the matter. You could test it out. Research. Observe and look out for signs. Then decide for yourself. This is why so many people don't end up believing victims.
Wow! You had a therapist who was informed about narcissism. You are fortunate to have had a therapist who could see what was really happening. More often therapists don't see it, unless you go to someone who specializes in narc or trauma based therapy. You lucked out on that one!
Also, narcissism is closely tied with co-dependency, and it's tough to untangle that web. Sounds like you could be co-dependent, if you have always caved to previous demands or been unassuming in other affairs. ❤
@@happ-hobby Getting the family dynamic pinpointed should be higher on a therapist's list. I shouldn't be diagnosing my own co-dependency at 51, having never gotten in front of the right therapist.
After my family experienced a smear campaign, Narcissists rage , threats and then a hard discard we definitely knew we meet a narcissist. This was a definite life lesson and we enjoyed no contact. I have definitely been educating myself about this toxic personality so we don't ever repeat this mistake again. Thank for this discussion as I feel better knowing that my family isn't alone.
This will save you a lot of pain: Realise they have no empathy. Don't take anything they say personally. They shoot at you nasty remarks, they are passive aggressive, they lash out not because of you. Disengage. Don't try to clarify nor seek justice with them
I noticed that when i said something he didn't like, there would be a 'delayed' reaction. Later he'd give me the silent treatment and i was confused. Then i finally figured it out. In the end, i did walk on eggshells but i could only hold things in but for so long. During arguments he'd say things to throw me off - like about things he knew i felt strongly about and always said he agreed with me on, suddenly he'd use it to push my buttons. He'd say things to hurt me during arguments that had nothing to do with what we were arguing about!
Oh my gosh! "Sure I did something, but now you're yelling at me, so I'm the victim." EVERY. TIME. I would always get so flustered by this because I wanted us both to have our concerns heard and I kept saying stuff like, "I brought up my concerns so I would like to talk about them." And then, "So, because you're the only one who complains, you're the only one who gets to talk." I totally bought into it and it (and tons of other stuff) had me feeling pretty bad about my behavior. I gave up trying to work through our conflicts and he thought the relationship changed so much for the better, but I was one foot out of the door.
@@judy6939 How DARE you have feelings? So weak. I hope you sense the loads of sarcasm here. That feels so manipulative and I hope you know that you have every right to your feelings. I guess we all need to think about how to express them, but no one can do it perfectly, especially if the other person won't even attempt to engage.
It's called reactive abuse. The narc does or says something to deliberately provoke an emotional reaction from you, and then vilifies you for having a reaction.
The sadistic nature was very disturbing ...He hated to see me happy and did everything in his power to distress me and enjoyed my pain....it was very sick
Kati us so right about rage, shane and jealousy. The problem is always when people can't admit they're in pain and continue to make you suffer. If we get the opportunity to get some life history from them in most cases there is trauma, and feelings of shame. ❤️😄
Before I discovered narcissm, in March of this year(2023) I always thought my narc husband was very confident, contrary to the fact that he actually isn't ... deep down He always excels at what he does, and he works alot. He is an amazing provider So i often doubt that he even is a covert narc, that's why I keep subscribing to so many different channels, cos i almost want to double confirm or alleviate the fact that he even is a narc But the evidence is overwhelming, on every channel. Breaks my heart, that there is nothing I can do, now that I know what i know This matter is hopeless My only option is to get out And that is not even easy to do. To pack up a lifetime and simply move on This has been a really long hard road😢
Both of my parents are narcs my grandma saved me from that but she suffered abuse as well she showed love but I had to grow up fast defending my parents but as I got older and suffered abuse myself I see what she is saying now
Having learned the truth, now comes another challenging part of the healing: Identity. Cleary it was stolen from us. Who do 'we' choose to be now that we are finally free?
One of the formal definitions of rape is "a violation." Yes, lies, manipulation, deceit are forms of rape. In fact, the criminal justice system is beginning to recognize it as a form of sexual assault.
He used to punch himself in the head.. when he raged .and I remember thinking Omg what did I get into..this man is very sick..I'm still traumatized by the abuse
I will never forget one of the first times my covert said something that was referencing his causes. But before I discovered he was a narc. He said " I don't like to be told 'no'". I said "no one likes to hear 'no'. In my career I hear 20 'no's' to any one 'yes'. Grow up and take the adult path when a no is given to you! "
Really like how Kati is so matter of fact about why a narcissist acts the way they do. It doesn't really give you a chance to get emotional about it and then give ways that you can handle yourself with that person. Dr. C does that as well, its just a different style and hearing them both together is like receiving new, amazing tools in the toolbox for the next time this situation pops up. Great interview!
Narcissists are data collectors and it’s also unnerving when they show compassion & empathy, even though shallow, to everyone except their partner &/or family. Just realizing this is a blatant red flag 🚩
What ever they think in the moment is what's best and the whole time they scheming to get what they want no matter what. The victims become lonely and get accused of being who they are. Generalizing can become an issue.
Limiting the amount of time I spend with the narc is a great idea. It will reduce my daily exposure and allow me to feel more in control of me and my time. Thank you for the video!
The least contact, the better off I am. I can pray for her - the less resentment about her verbal abuse, etc. I also pray for me, and then the awareness of Jesus's love for me reassures me that my sister's behavior doesn't have any real power over me unless I allow it to. I just do whatever I'd do anyway without all that mess. It helps me also to think, "If this person were ok, what would they want for me?" - then act accordingly.
I appreciate this video it nails so much of the dynamics between people with narcissi personalities . but i must tell you and i listen to a lot of these experts such as Dr. carter Dr. Ramani Rebecca Zung etc. but im just not as impressed with Kari , her delivery , she talks in more of academic dialog which is ok I guess but she wont be heard on the level she needs to help clients . All the experts i mentioned are heard and their knowledge is accepted which i think is the purpose in choosing their careers . If it wasnt for Dr. Carter hopping in once in a while and speaking i would have been bored to death and moved on. I could never stick with a therapist like Ms Morton I just wouldnt feel she gets it . I would be wrong probably but she just seems to be so split on her analysis .
The worst thing you can’t get back is time. Looking back, 32 years of abusive marriage, what a waste of my time. Sadly he passed away a year ago, I’m still dealing with the painful experience, but I’m slowly healing and I remind myself daily, he can’t hurt me anymore
Apart from shame and pain there is also a percentage of selfish WICKEDNESS in a true narcissist which gives them PLEASURE knowing that they cause suffering to their victim. It is important that the side of WICKEDNESS is pointed out otherwise we are treating these selfish manipulative wicked people with kid gloves which makes it easier for them to continue in their WICKEDNESS.
After ten years, the compassion for the wounded core and inability to express was what kept me from cleanly cutting things off. I no longer have compassion for a continued choice. Everything and anything but the truth. Not worth it
Thank you, Dr. C, Kati is so down to earth, as you are, and sincere in her communication. I've been with a narc spouse for 47 years and stay as far away as I can most of the day, to rejuvenate myself. Many years ago, he said something that he had heard from a co-worker, and he enjoyed it so much that he has repeated it often to me..." when you find a good horse, you ride him". He expects me to do everything at home, but complains to others that I am controlling. I am actually laughing as I write this. Another phrase he he is always saying to everyone after a goodbye or at the end of a phone conversation is..." Ok, you're in control ". He fits the narc bill precisely, and I the trauma bonded individual. But I have learned so much from you, I am growing exponentially. Thank you so much.
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In the first 6 months of my relationship with my ex he said, I know how to f@ck with people's heads. And naive 21yr old me had no idea what he was talking about and thought little about it. Now I often think about Maya Angelou's quote "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". This gem would have saved me a lot of pain.
One of the ones I encountered claimed he didn't know why no one would stay around. Within 3 months I wanted him gone, and he had conned me into letting me move in. He acted so horrible and had the eggshells out within 1.5 months. I went to stay at his homeplace. His parents were deeply religious supposedly. First thing they made us do was get a marriage license. Promised, assured, swore to me it would never be turned in. When I fled, they were threatening to turn it in and have me committed for daring to leave the situation. Fortunately it was expired when I couldn't take the controlling, sneaky, manipulative behavior anymore.
Sometimes they will phrase it in the negative. As in "I'm not a dick." Ok, thanks for the warning that you probably are a dick.
My ex would get very drunk and admit "I don't think like normal people". Thought it was just the booze talking cuz when sober she'd pretend that she didn't say that. Wish I would have known maya's quote back then
@@salviaspuzzle Truth in booze.
@@salviaspuzzle yep always said alcohol makes most people say honest things
This video confirms my belief that dealing with narcs are 'above my pay grade'. No contact is the only way to live. And, live you will!
It's just hard when it's your daughter in law, and it affects my relationship with my grandkids. Breaks my heart
@Sandi Isherwood I feel for you. My daughter-in-law is the same. I was banned 5 years ago. She convinced my son that I was the problem after living with me for 5 years rent free. I bent over backward to help them. I was cut off 5 years ago. Only her family matters. Her parents told her to get an abortion or never come home. I heard about how she was locked outside at 5 years old. All of the things that her family did to her. Both of her parents are functioning alcoholics. I don't drink. I had to raise children and I never had time to party. At any rate,she has told all of my son's friends who used to see them,that she just can't have any of my son's family around because we are all mentally ill. She told them that I wanted to take their 4 th daughter away and raise her. I found out that after I had not seen them for 3 years about that. My oldest granddaughter called me to tell me that it was my fault that none of her dad's friends would go up and visit anymore. So much more that I could write a book. I have given them to God. I can't put myself in that position anymore.
Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.
Yes!!!!
Fantastic video full of helpful information. There is so much to learn as it relates to narcissism that I already knew. I hope you understand what I mean. 🤔
Same here and also my relationship with my son..I know he knows now who he married but he stays for the kids …they too will grow up and the marriage will be over…I hope I get to live to see it
Narcissist put up brick walls to protect their vulnerability, but the narcissist takes every opportunity to smear innocent victims!
I have found in my experience most narcissist are spoiled brats who were always given their way, never told no or given adequate discipline or boundaries
Not always. Some of them come from very troubled backgrounds that may have involved dire poverty, domestic abuse, and early childhood trauma. This causes them to be "set" as emotionally stunted people who create false selves to cope with life.
My narcissistic mother grew up in the Depression. She was deprived and poor. Her father was violent and her uncle sexually abused her cousins. My sister and I are sure she was sexually abused too
True, I have a sister in law,the youngest whom the mother in law babies and made excuses for all the time who is the most manipulative dramatic and professional victim I've ever met. I believe her mother spoiled her out of guilt .which i won't describe here.
What amazes me about toxic people is their claim that they don’t like drama, but drama seems to follow them wherever they go. They essentially create chaos and drama but claim they never had anything to do about it. That blows me away.
You're on it. Narcissists are not known as self reflective.
Especial Aly on dating sites. Drama free
You are so right!
They turn other family members against you too. Lies, lies and half truths.
My 2 granddaughters have put the whole family against me...they've done such a good job...no-one sticks up for this 70 year old Gr. Grandma...go figure.....😢🤮💔
I would never take feedback from someone who I wouldn't turn to for advice. - Kati
If you are manipulative then you don't need anger! Narcists use anti-social behavior (glibness, hypocrisy, invalidation, alienation, triangulation, gaslighting and projection) to control others, it has a PTSD effect on their victims. The motive is the key, it is ok to get angry if someone is hurting others. A narcissist gets angry in protection of their ego.
@@AnnieGrace777 Yeah, They compete with their spouse, children and other family members for resources and attention, it is counter productive. They are weak and fearful the opposite of what God wants for us! The fact that you don't participate means you are strong!
Yep. My older brother is all you said and when he ( over 55 yrs old ) does not get his way, he goes into revenge mode and will wait to get you back. I recently said NO to him about something....so I know he's cooking up a humiliation or a smear or something. He always does........he also never gives up ..if you say No he will still try and manipulate you to eventually give in ....he gets off on winning getting and taking...
Googlieking - You worded it perfectly:
If you are manipulative then you don’t need anger. I’m finding most speakers are not coupling these two factors together. The manipulator uses control in such a stealth and skilled manner. It’s sinister. Psychological abuse makes one crazy enough to strike out in rage, not the other way around.
I only found out two years ago I had CPTSD from my covert Narc mother and my Ex, who has exactly the same type of Narcissism, reactivated these feelings in me. So- a "man" who isn't able to handle his life and never had a real relationship at the age of 40, broke me to the point of wanting to end my life. All of this without anyone having a clue, totally invisibly. People who know him for 25 years only think the best of him.
I don't agree on what you say regarding anger, though. I couldn't see it in my Ex when we were together, he was quite able to control himself. but thinking about situations after splitting up, I realised he is VERY angry. He gets like a certain type of look with his eyes, his body gets stiff or he bites his fingernails and the skin until it bled. Same with my vulnerable Ex
I reached a point where it felt less like walking on eggshells and more like walking through a minefield! I never knew what was going to make him go off on me. It was pure insanity!
Christmas 2022 we (cousins) had a holiday meal without narcissists (parents). We had a calm, civil, pleasant day (relief). That confirmed it wasn't me or us (cousins) and I realized I was ok and the parents WERE the ones with the problems, I'm so tired of hearing how I, or, we cousins cause all the issues. Leave out the narcissists and there's no issues!
Oh yes...I can relate. As sad as this is, it took several deaths (of the worst perpetrators) in the family to finally, after decades of chaos, dysfunction, and acrimony, restore a sense of peace and love amongst remaining members. Having fully recognized the source of discontent long before, we were all so thankful and grateful that we had that time, no matter the length of time we would have it.
I like to take pics of how sad it has and how happy I am now 😂🎉
Proverbs 17:1 - “Better is a dry morsel with quiet than a house full of feasting with strife.”
I love Kati's take. When you understand how fragile narcissists are, you see them as they really are. When you see them as aggressive, powerful, and even evil, you give them power. When you see them as pathetic, and fragile... they will hate you with a passion because you see the part of them that they are desperately trying to hide. When you extend them compassion... they hate you as much as they hate the part themselves that they are desperate to hide.
"it would have been nice..." 🚩
From my experience, seeing the narc for who they are is needed. However, narcissist aren't fragile. And calling them pathetic is what actually feeds them power, because now you (not you personally but in general) have become narcissistic by name calling and that gives them the legal right to see you (in general) as their equal. Meaning, you are just like them.
God corrected me when in my hurt and anger I called them a name, and God stopped me and told me "You cannot become like them. Guard your tongue"
Then again, this is my experience.
@@DigMinistries2911 I did absolutely no "name calling" as you put it. Nor did I ever suggest name calling, I haven't spoken to the known narcs in my life in over eight years. One of them more than fifteen years. The remaining one, I speak to only through a lawyer as he is obstructing my mother's will.
Narcissists are like frightened animals. They will bite and lash out at you at any and every opportunity. People with strength of character are not like that. Happy people are not like that. Only miserable, self loathing people do that. Why mess with them? Their inner demons will do more to them than you could even imagine. Why feed the flames?
I am glad "God" corrected you... but really, there are plenty of people like myself that will tell you to just ghost them. Weird you felt the need to get "God" involved. I would have thought He had more important things on His mind.
@@fredhubbard7210 people read the weirdest things into comments sometimes 🤦.
Great point about the n hating compassion, being fragile & pathetic. That underlies it all & is the thing to keep in mind. Sure, they can seem evil, bigger than life. They're just.... Transparently pathetic.
Good luck with the will. I'll be in the exact same spot soon, not looking forward to it. Draining.
@@fredhubbard7210 I’m absolutely sorry that happened to you. And I hope that issue with your mothers will get resolved fairly. Things like that can get messy
please read my comment again. I had already pointed out that it wasn’t you personally who used name calling. And also, I used my personal experience.
And from my personal experience, what you are describing are effects and symptoms of a victim of narcissistic abuse. Not a narcissist. What you are describing is the damage caused by a narcissist, or narcissistic person. Also, (from my experience) after a narcissist (or narcissistic person) inflects harm on another person (in my case, it was spiritual and mental) the victim becomes paranoid, untrusting, and they search for answers towards what they have experienced. Their emotional levels are unstable, and they aren’t able to properly express what they are feeling. They self gaslight (which will cause them to seem mentally unstable) after being gaslighted by the narcissist or narcissistic person. Depression settles in, isolation, anxiety and nervousness because they can’t stop thinking about the situation or incident that ultimately altered them. And usually, it’s to stop the destiny of the victim.
My mother always told me, "Watch out for the so-called pillars of society." They have the most to hide.
Wise woman!
Facebook would have died without narcissists.
100% spot on. He can never say "I'm sorry".
They can say sorry, but when they revert to the same thing you bring up to them, and it keeps happening, then something ain’t right and their sorry isn’t real.
Yes it's evil to me, when someone can act and say I love you, then turn around and act like your nobody to them. They never cared from the start. They can turn the emotions on and off whenever they feel. With no remorse. It's just all a game to them.
@@CandiceLawless-li4fd saying I love you a day or two after screaming fuck you means nothing!
Sociopaths and Narcissist are not the same thing. Evil intent is the key, and worse is when they pretend to be upright.
especially when they claim to be christian and gaslight u with their projections and say theu have light of christ. Smh., never accountable and hide behind bible quotations
@1WindyOldBird 🪶 most narcissists aren't all sociopaths are
@@susannakotoff7095 yup. They are the ones who give bible believing Christians a bad name
Sadistic nature yeah!!
You will know them by their fruits. Words does not count, life does. We are living in confusing and troublesome times. Look at Christ, he died for sinners, not for the "righteous" for before God no one is righteous (Romans 3:23) but God can transform a life if we confess our sin and receive His grace.
Please do something on how narcissists affect kids in the short and long run. They really destroy their children’s lives and it takes years, even decades to deal with the effects.
I think they compete with their spouse, children and other family members for resources and attention, it is counter productive. They are weak and fearful the opposite of what God wants for us! The fact that you don't participate means you are strong!
@@googlieking I’m not strong, that’s why I got myself into such a situation. It’s thanks to this site and others like it that I have become stronger. Information makes us stronger and that is why narcissists don’t want us seeing things like us.
I feel sorry for those in the past and those now who were:are under the clutches of narcissism and don’t have access to such life changing information. For years I thought I was the one doing wrong when all along it was my partner who was destroying me and my daughter’s lives.
Don’t be an enabler. Get out is all I can say.
Yes I agree that will be wonderful if that can happen
Snap!! It took decades. 😢
I need help for my grand daughter. She is bragging down and she's only 9. It's devastating
Condescending, contemptuous & manipulative, the narcissist in a nutshell .......... "I'm sorry that's what you think" "I'm sorry you feel like that" translates to "I'm sorry you think you can call me out & think that I even care enough to actually acknowledge I did anything wrong to you"
👍heard those lines all the time
Oouch!
I heard that from an Elder in a church I no longer attend, "I'm sorry you feel that way." This is utterly insulting to the person who has been hurt.
What amazes me is - they ( the Narc ) eventually see the same results time & time again from their behavior - yet their ego is so huge that they never thinks it’s them, they want everyone else to be the fall guy. Don’t they get tired of losing all the time ? I think their shame is their own unwillingness to change for the sake of others. They’re very, very selfish people !
Great video Dr. Les Carter!
When you feel empty you create drama.
The 'walking on eggshells' feeling was something I felt from the start, but not knowing anything about narcissism, I didn't see it as a red flag. Turning it around...oh yeah, like telling me I "just chose to be hurt". There was so much more. Thanks Dr C for the chance to hear another view.
I feel you.
I was so naive and thought everyone was healthy
I was wrong.
Sometimes it takes a while before you can put your finger on what goes on. It may take a few months before you realize they are going to pounce
Walking on eggshells, censoring yourself before youy say anything puts soo much stress, it's exhausting. I only realized it and connected the dots after I learned about narcissist disorder. I understood that whatever I say or do can be used against me, misinterpreted, used to hurt, cause seething remarks or lashing out. So I'm learning not to tale anything personally. I noticed the older the narcissist gets the more irritable they become with more frequent outbursts of nastiness.
If you pay attention you will notice the subtle signs of rage brewing and simmering in the clenching of their jaw muscles, the tension you begin to feel in your body due to the constant tension they carry within, the contemptuous facial expressions and expressions. If you question your sanity,intuition and begin to believe you’re the disordered one a good read is Emotional Contagion. If you’re around them for long periods of time, you will become like them, live an unlived morally deficient low quality life.
The walking on eggshells is the damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
If you feel despair, dread, existential hopelessness and growth is non- existent, there’s a good probability that you are around a disordered person(s).
Dread is a great indicator.
So spot on.
I have become hyper aware of those signs, the jaw clench, the thinning of the lips, the slight widening of the eyes and drop in blinking frequency combined with the increasing time looking directly at you, the slight change in tone... Etc
All of these are precursors and sometimes I can do or say something to steer the situation away from the cliff... And sometimes I can't.
I got the book tanks for the recommendation excellent
I've just learned that my adult son is a narcissist. I didn't know what I was dealing with until this week. So thankful to have a name for it and a way to learn about it. I saw his face doing what you described here just the other day. I found myself walking on eggshells, trying to provide comic relief, all to no avail. He started to rage about what church his father and I attend, as it doesn't meet with his "approval." I could see him seething just under the surface, shortly before his outburst. It's always so upsetting. Then he left in a huff, followed by 5-10 paragraph texts, with name calling and gas-lighting. The insanity has been called to a halt now, thankfully. No more contact. We just can't deal with it anymore. It's all so clear to us suddenly, after years of confusion and chaos!
The first indication I have that someone is a narcissist is how they react when someone tells them, "No." That's when you realize their fury is just beneath the surface.
Indeed! And whenever we differentiate ourselves from the narcissists in any way. They are not interested in a person's uniqueness unless of course that uniqueness can be manipulated in a self-serving way shorrt or very long term. Dr. C has referred to it as the long con as well. I have found this to be true with some individuals and within some larger organizations and groups. You know it when you see it. Their patterns become increasingly clear and absolutely repetitive. Now we know and continue choosing heathier alternatives, including creating our own. 🦉🙂🙏
You may not have cause to say "no" during the love-bombing, but there'll be some boundary they'll push. Even "not yet/now" gets an oddly disproportionate show of petulance or aggression. Also look for them telling you how honest/trustworthy they are, and the unsolicited advice about everything. Thats my trifecta of red flags now.
@@Gneiss365 they are utterly demanding demons
So true... 'Hell hath no fury like a narcissist scorned'... lol 😆 😂
Yes. Their rage is always lurking waiting for an excuse to come out..
Their vindictiveness is pure sadistic and devastating because it affects so many aspects of your life. They want to harm, emotionally, physically, mentally and psychologically. It doesn’t matter who is in their way, they enjoy making you hyper-vigilant with fear everyday of your life.
Youre preaching now! Abdolutely devastating to know you're/you've been sleeping with a demon.😢😮
I totally believe what you say and if I stopped believing it I would fall right back into the trap. You are 100% correct!
I had NO IDEA 🤷♀️ when I married that there was ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN PEOPLE!!! Sadistic, cruel, vindictive, manipulations of every description and LIES THAT YOU NEVER SEE COMING!!! HOW??? HOW??? Do you purposely DESTROY the lives of the innocent people and children that are in Your orbit???!!! I plead with the Narcissist husband ; reasoned, encouraged;humbled to the point of nothing ingness my personal cares and opinion; I left for my mental health and came back to TRY: some MORE!! I was exhausted from never being able to do or be enough for him . Aarrgghh🤦♀️😖😭😳
Many of us dont have people in our lives for a wide variety of reasons, who are rhere to form those healthy relationships. Dr c dr ramini and jerry wise have been whats shown me what healthy is. The midweeks especially and people sharing experiences has been invaluable! Real, raw and authentic. Saving lives, helping people heal and be their best selves. Thanks to all 👏👏👋
I've known many narcissists, and I've always found it rather ironic that they invariably want to blare to the world that they're "*CONFIDENT,"* yet they crave constant praise and validation; they literally cannot get enough.
On the other end of the spectrum, I've known a few (I can think of two, offhand) truly confident people, and they calmly did what they did, knowing they were excellent at it, enjoying the accolades when they came, but not demanding them.
True, I know one who spent hours going to several different stores trying to find the right party favors to impress the guests and ended up causing him and the 3 people in the car to be hours late for a 90 yr old relative's big birthday party and those trinkets didn't have the desired effect.
He said a narcissist finds your faults and then camps out on them. So true. And the worst part about is they will try to draw out scenarios in which they can place you back ino that faulty version of yourself. And even if the alleged "faulty" behavior isn't that bad or entirely true, nor is the scenario they are now painting you into....it matters not. In their eyes they have proven that you are still the same old monster you have always been, and boy are they going to let you know about it!
Yep! It's called DARVO (it's such a common scenario for so many people's undeserved FRAMING that they have an acronym for it like that nowadays)
Especially when you stand up to them, they’ll back down! Then black sheep roles switch around in the family dynamics. Be prepared to experience manipulation, lies, & more chaos & drama. They pit family members against each other & their off spring are bullies. They’re demons.
Great line!!!
True.
@@psychoholiday-ju1cp what does DARVO stand for?
So informative. Fight, flight, freeze and fawn, wow the narcissists really do a number on our psyches! You need a dictionary just to keep up with all the responses that our nervous systems have to endure. Thanks Kati and Dr C.
ForReal ! 😵💫
For real and its hard and extremely draining!!
@@Lilmommabear4 No doubt!
Wish I'd known these things 10 years ago.
39 years wasted but thank God it's over and I'm free. Lot of unlearning to do.. the ego still creeps up on me almost 4 years into healing.
I'm so happy for you!
Glad for you!
39 years ? WOW! I made it 20 and thought I was going to die. don't see how you made it 39 years ? Bravo 👏
but I'm glad you got out 😊
@@majestic-1 thanks, it's all I knew, I didn't know what love wasn't. Now I see clearly 👀
It took 18 years for me 😢
Not just emtional chaos, but physical aliments too. I was so often ill during the 30 years I was married to my narc husband. Now at 77. I have aliments that probably can be traced to my treatment by my ex.
Yeah exactly. Chronic stress can seriously affect your health. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of mortality globally
Yes ofc
The emotional pain resulted in my alcoholism and Chrones Disease.
I believe you. And I'm still recovering from my narc mother. Its horrible what the do to our mind and body.
Stay strong.
This is 100% spot on
The "family dance"...WOW, that hits home.
There is a lot of emphasis on staying cool and collected, but in my experience this does not stop the abuse. I was polite, cool, and collected for 15 years while my sister attacked me at any time that we were together, usually several times a year. The abuse got worse, not better. So on Dec 31, 2023, I finally said, "F*** off." I was not out of control. I knew exactly what I was doing and I planned it. I may have LOOKED out of control, but the intent was: If you step to me again, this is what will happen: there will be repercussions. It may be that Ns "love" this drama, but I have tried every single other tactic and none of them have worked. I am hoping that fighting back might finally work with this particular N, or make her think twice. If you are "good" when they are bad, they think you are a wuss and deserve to be bullied.
The dysfunction comes out when there is conflict. Yes, so true with saying that. 👏
Yes! Suddenly you go from being an extension of them to joining every other “low value person” conspiring to keep them down. You are “not on their side” as soon as you have a separate opinion
A family lady who is a Narcissist took me for a ride. She now wants to "train" me to be proper. I am 65 years old and refuse to deal with her ever again.
You're onto it!!
My intention for today is: Be healthy for my own sake!
Thank you both for spreading the word about this awful mental condition called narcissism..
It took me 20 years to realize that one of my daughter-in-laws is a
narcissist. She has ruined my son,
is still working on ruining my relationship with my grandchildren. She spews poison
throughout my family. While I was
trying to figure out “what was wrong”, I began to read and came across descriptions of narcissists.
My son is now miserable and
irritable. He has become like her and gaslights me on a dime.
He denies everything. Her parents and sister are also her partners in crime.
My boundary is that I don’t go to their home anymore. That’s a great relief for me. I turn my phone off because I don’t want to hear from my son, for now anyway. I’m retired and go out each day and make it my goal each day to live a good life and love the other grandkids in my life.
Walk a lot to combat the depression. Enjoy each day by treating yourself and others well
and with kindness.
Thank you again for spreading knowledge about NPD.
I admire you. So wise and honourable.
Dread. We feel lots of dread. Walking on egg shells while forced to wear a heavy wet stinky coat and smile while convincingly saying
Your amazing! Im so lucky.
When I truly realized what he was, I saw a monster. 32 years , culminating in me taking care of him during what was the last 4 months of his life. That was a year ago,but right before he died, he felt the need to “come clean” about his side trash in another city….what a legacy to leave for the family, so painful and destructive. For anyone on the fence about leaving, you deserve to be with people who give you peace and love. Being alone is sooooooo much better, no insults, lying, humiliation, my every move narrated, …no more and from now on, it’s all about me
I hate Narcs there alway dificult to get along with you can't even have a simple conversation and express your opinion with them before you know it,it turns into an explosive rage.
Thank you it helpes
I married someone who is a narcissist. He’s so super unhappy and focused on the negative. I’m going to take a break this summer - get away for a few weeks to reconnect to my happy place. He’s a lot better when I distance and don’t expect much. I’ve accepted that the kind, authentic love story I wanted is not going to happen.
Magnificent gratitude 4 Ur sharing bravery 💕 I'm in the same boat and boy oh boy I need a Big break NOW ❣️
Not with him it will not.
Still a choice.
To Concerned G. Your comment about distancing and lowering your expectations spoke volumes to me. I've realized how much these two simple actions have helped me deal with my narc partner of 10 yrs. And that 'happy place' is the calm cove I return, to escape the high seas storms. Thanks to Dr. C. and good luck to you.
Totally understand. But divorce him and get another one❤ who deeply loves you.
The best thing in life is when narcissists makes you stronger, wiser and better. Being able to be grateful and thankful dealing and coping with narcissists shows how the enemy is weak and messed up at their own games. I am 65 years, eleven months and 26 days as of my comments. Watching them self-destruct is an atrocity to witness. Having love, compassion, and resources left is proof how staying ahead of the narcissist bullshit. Taking care of myself keeping it seriously simple aka KISS is the best advice. Thank for reading my comments. Smiles
😊😊 thanks for the positive message. True sign of healing
The 2 of you are absolutely the best. Describes my 26 year marriage exactly. Thanks to my therapist (YOU go get thearpy...says the narc. Best idea ever.); joining a womens chorus; and your videos, I'm thriving with a new (5 years) hubby. It's sad but I felt like he was going to drown with or without my "help" and I had just enough energy to swim to shore.
He told me, "I have a black soul." Little did I know he truly meant it. He is a Covert Narcissist.....
Two wonderful people making the world a better place. Thank you, both, for all you do!!!
I fell for the bait and got sucked into the chaos. I found myself acting way out of character and the only way to stop that was to get away. I’d never behaved so out of character and she nearly had me convinced that was just how I am. I had to ask my ex girlfriends if I’m that person. I am not. I asked her ex who she said was lovely and on good terms with if she was that person. She is. Get out, it’s the only way. Good luck x
What Kati says explains the memory gaps I have and that my kids have over the last 20 years.
It's wild when it finally hits you that you've been working for a person who fits on the higher end of the narcissistic spectrum, and all the pieces start coming together, all the little moments where you felt something was off....and you finally get it. Their facade was extremely convincing. But I see it now....nothing but a house of cards. I have quit my position and will now embrace freedom and health. Thank you both ❤
Excellent. Having come from that toxic environment myself, I wholeheartedly embrace your freedom. It is completely liberating when you are out from under their thumbs.
@@jellybean6778 thank you so much
Most companies are run by them
Thank you for the self preservation comment. I’m looking for my voice and mostly realize what had happen to me over 24 yrs.
Last fall I stopped being his supply. I saw no joy in him, I was sick of isolation and no comments on our lives together.
Thank you for this knowledge. I found his social media & knew I was on the right path to make him leave.
I am right behind you. Just came into the "sick-ofs"
Me too. At a certain point the life you are trying so hard to hold together just doesn’t seem worth all the stress and unhappiness
I recently went no contact with a covert narcissist and have experience everything you guys are talking about. I'm still feeling confused and feeling guilty . I am an empath and I did see his sadness that's what kept me with him for 16yrs
I love the work of today's guest, Kati Morgan. Listened to her since she first began presenting on RUclips. Dr. C., so glad you brought her aboard today. Thumbs up!! :)
I really enjoyed our conversation!
Same here.
BRILLIANT PODCAST really ENJOYED IT, was married to a narcissist for 28yrs and ABUSE WAS HORRIFIC, divorced now and live in PEACE.
Thanks for explaining the fawning response of the adult child of a narcissist who has tried other responses and is desperate to do it right and avoid being hurt again, and in so doing, strengthens the trauma bond.
Appealing to truth was my crime.
False hope and assumptions like "all mothers love their children" and "everyone wants a happy family" kept me stuck.
Thank you, Dr. Carter, for having Kati as a guest on your program. She is such a pleasant lady. It was a joy listening to your interaction with her. As usual, each of your videos deepens my understanding of narcissism and is helping me greatly as I try to heal from extreme abuse from my narcissistic husband.
Thank you, Dr. Carter for all you are doing to help us heal.
You are an absolute treasure.
Lu
Dr C is an amazing individual. What he has taken on is one of the hardest of challenges.. to deal with an incurable personality disorder that creates so much negativity & disregulated havoc on planet! An award is due.
Me too!
Of you try to remove yourself from a situation calmly then that wont solve it.
At least from my experience the person will stew and stew and the tension will simply ramp till its spoken out. It wont go back to baseline uncomfortable by itself.
And what I was told is that the person felt bad and needed my apology to feel okay again.
I understand at this point so I apologized. But even stopping an argument doesn't calm things down is my point. The person simply wont stop till they get validated and you bow down.
Super chat between our good Dr. C and guest Kati Morton! Golden nuggets and advice. I was encouraged to take my "Breath IN! ", knowing my 'wise mind' from my 'emotional mind,' and an atta-girl toward staying my resilient self. We can become chaos-free!!! We deserve the love we gave, the self that was discarded. We are not trash.
Amen to thst!
Very authentic comment. We the empaths are authentic people. We loose so much of the reality that we build over time.
The narc comes in and poof ,what happens ? It is our right to get back to what we had.
Yep 👍☺️
I gave up on ex narc it was a complete hell. Mind games like crazy & no accountability at all. They literally all mental & very unstable..You do need to stay away from them & no contact
This is so spot on, I told my ex narc that we both had past wounds we needed to heal so we could be better for each other. Two days later he had blocked me and was in a new relationship, 2 weeks later engaged and within a month of our break-up he was married. I remember one of the last things he said to me was “are you sure you want to do this” I remember it sounding so cruel and calculated.
Amazing
The nastiest trauma appears to come from the fact that covert narcissists consciously hide their very bad behaviour. Dis-regulated RAGES and CONTROL issues. They know it! But they don't know how they have a character issue and how damaging it is to people around them. These people need to learn and change.. somehow ..but the first line of defence is getting to outsmart them. Thanks for the session. Will check your books out. :)
I had to go no contact. It is my father. His last words to me was he hates me. My brothers hate me and the world hates me so I should go home and take myself out of it because I am such a f up.
@@ladyluck5248 I am in no contact, but they still maintain their false reality and then twist it around to incorporate my ´no contact.´ I didn't show up to my father's funeral. Why? Because of the narcissists that staged it. So how did they respond? Gaslighting me. Like nothing happened. ait was unpredictably predictable. And I was worried about my impact on them?
I definitely will not live in this manner. It's a fantasy. It's so immature. I can only laugh at it. It really is hilarious. We simply can't take their fake lifestyle seriously. I go to the gym and I love myself. They hate themselves, are miserable & have no idea how sick that can make them. Cancer, ulcers, lack of sleep, victimhood. Who knows what they can experience. Forget it. Not in my life :)
@@majestic.feminine I completely agree. My brother came at me with some horrid texts that he denies sending me at my fathers wedding.
I told him that since he never gave me the benefit of a discussion, he has lost the right to EVER speak to me again. I awoke the next day to texts accusing me of each and every single family problem since our mother died 37 years ago : including his DUI’s. It laughable. I’m done.
No contact
"They just broke the rules." Spot on. You can't be authentic with a narcissist.
I have a narcissist mother and I try to keep my visits with her as short as possible and I find out later through other family members that she complains about what short of a visit it was. I hate going by myself, it's so awkward there's really nothing much to talk about. I've been hurt by her so many times that I have nothing I wanna share with her in regards to my personal life.
Sadly ,if you stayed longer, she would complain about something else. They can’t be pleased.
Me too. 😔
I had to go no contact because I got to the point that her crushing abuse was making me sick. I had to choose my life. She still won’t leave me alone though. Flying monkeys-I’ve blocked my phone, e-mail, etc.
I got a PO Box so she wouldn’t know where I live but she somehow found out. Now she leaves stuff on my doorstep gaslighting me, and letting me know that she knows where I live.
It’s awful - I’m thinking about moving out of state. If I’m as awful as she tells everyone I am (telling people I’m “sick” at my brother’s memorial) then why doesn’t she just stay away!
Gaslighting is the denial of someone’s reality and will lie and manipulate to keep shame away ❤
I listen to this and its my life. I spent 12 years with my wife and until recently, had no idea that i was in a relationship with a narcissist. I always knew she started trouble and was controlling. It wasn't as noticeable when i worked and it was just me that she controlled. But when we had a son, cleaning services, a babysitter, she got a job, and i went back for my MBA. She couldn't keep up with controlling everyone. To keep a close watch, she gave up bathing and caring for herself. She didn't even leave the home anymore. She said that she was the only one doing everything and she couldn't take care of herself bc she's keeping it altogether and no one helps her. You'd be surprised how they can kick up arguments out of no where and circulate the conversation. The issue for me was that i couldn't participate anymore. I had coursework, a job, and a son who i spent lots of time with. I spent much time with him to offset the control she put on him. Basically, i tuned her out and didn't listen anymore. She started slandering me to anyone who would listen to her. She said i was cheating, using drugs, dealing drugs, manipulating her, beating her, and stealing. When i found out, i went totally silent. She started showering, looking pretty, cooking again, cozying up to me. I wasnt having it unless serious change occurred. She went to the store, i was sitting at the kitchen table on my laptop, 2 police officers knocked on my door, and removed me from my home. My home, the one i bought 2 years before i married her.
Dont understand why you were removed. With what right? Which proves?
@@ann_hey7027 there was nothing. No domestic violence. Nothing. She filed a police report saying harassment with a history of past domestic violence. It was all fabricated. The police, the lawyers, judge all knew. 10k later, it was dismissed yesterday.
@@ann_hey7027 i left with 50% custody. She will have to leave my home 1/15/24
This was a great interview. But if you are raising children with a narcissistic coparent, mostly this is impossible.
Another great interview. I can testify to the thing she said at the beginning where you may not see the narcissist for what they are until you say 'no.' (At least that's what I think she said.) My sisters and I are all in our 50s and 60s, and when my therapist first said "they sound like narcissists," I disagreed. It's only as the events that triggered my saying 'no' to them unfolded (involving my mom's estate) and as I learned more about narcissism that I've come to firmly believe my therapist was right.
It's hard not to feel stupid for not seeing the signs much earlier. Of course, I'm not trained in psychology, so ... I did know on some level that saying 'no' would lead to a god-awful struggle. I'm pretty non-confrontational, so I just gave in a lot. I finally found something I wanted to stand my ground on, and, wow!, the lies, the smears, the over-the-top cruelty. How did I not see this before?
I think it's important to stay open minded to the idea that the people closest to us could betray us. So to not only be your own protector and be a vigilant person in general, but if someone warns you, not to immediately say no and close the matter. You could test it out. Research. Observe and look out for signs. Then decide for yourself. This is why so many people don't end up believing victims.
Wow! You had a therapist who was informed about narcissism. You are fortunate to have had a therapist who could see what was really happening. More often therapists don't see it, unless you go to someone who specializes in narc or trauma based therapy. You lucked out on that one!
Also, narcissism is closely tied with co-dependency, and it's tough to untangle that web. Sounds like you could be co-dependent, if you have always caved to previous demands or been unassuming in other affairs. ❤
@@happ-hobby Getting the family dynamic pinpointed should be higher on a therapist's list. I shouldn't be diagnosing my own co-dependency at 51, having never gotten in front of the right therapist.
@@Soothsayer937 Exactly!
My entire Childhood and I strongly see these traits in my Daughter and Son.
After my family experienced a smear campaign, Narcissists rage , threats and then a hard discard we definitely knew we meet a narcissist. This was a definite life lesson and we enjoyed no contact. I have definitely been educating myself about this toxic personality so we don't ever repeat this mistake again. Thank for this discussion as I feel better knowing that my family isn't alone.
I absolutely love Kati’s point of view and how she articulates the why and the hows of this deadly destroying disease.
8:48 "one wrong sentence away from their irritability" Oh yes.
This will save you a lot of pain:
Realise they have no empathy.
Don't take anything they say personally. They shoot at you nasty remarks, they are passive aggressive, they lash out not because of you.
Disengage.
Don't try to clarify nor seek justice with them
Good advice and reminders. Never give up on yourself, your growth and healing🙌
Thank you, Kati Morton, for a way to speak about narcissism that I can really wrap my head around.
I noticed that when i said something he didn't like, there would be a 'delayed' reaction. Later he'd give me the silent treatment and i was confused. Then i finally figured it out. In the end, i did walk on eggshells but i could only hold things in but for so long. During arguments he'd say things to throw me off - like about things he knew i felt strongly about and always said he agreed with me on, suddenly he'd use it to push my buttons. He'd say things to hurt me during arguments that had nothing to do with what we were arguing about!
Oh my gosh! "Sure I did something, but now you're yelling at me, so I'm the victim." EVERY. TIME. I would always get so flustered by this because I wanted us both to have our concerns heard and I kept saying stuff like, "I brought up my concerns so I would like to talk about them." And then, "So, because you're the only one who complains, you're the only one who gets to talk." I totally bought into it and it (and tons of other stuff) had me feeling pretty bad about my behavior. I gave up trying to work through our conflicts and he thought the relationship changed so much for the better, but I was one foot out of the door.
What my ex would say! 28 years. I am free now.
@@judy6939 How DARE you have feelings? So weak. I hope you sense the loads of sarcasm here. That feels so manipulative and I hope you know that you have every right to your feelings. I guess we all need to think about how to express them, but no one can do it perfectly, especially if the other person won't even attempt to engage.
It's called reactive abuse. The narc does or says something to deliberately provoke an emotional reaction from you, and then vilifies you for having a reaction.
I love the analogy of the narcissist as a Faberge egg! Brilliant!
The sadistic nature was very disturbing ...He hated to see me happy and did everything in his power to distress me and enjoyed my pain....it was very sick
It is sadistic
Me too- every happy moment I had was immediately shot down with creepy, weird, illogical actions
Kati us so right about rage, shane and jealousy. The problem is always when people can't admit they're in pain and continue to make you suffer. If we get the opportunity to get some life history from them in most cases there is trauma, and feelings of shame.
❤️😄
Before I discovered narcissm, in March of this year(2023)
I always thought my narc husband was very confident, contrary to the fact that he actually isn't ... deep down
He always excels at what he does, and he works alot. He is an amazing provider
So i often doubt that he even is a covert narc, that's why I keep subscribing to so many different channels, cos i almost want to double confirm or alleviate the fact that he even is a narc
But the evidence is overwhelming, on every channel.
Breaks my heart, that there is nothing I can do, now that I know what i know
This matter is hopeless
My only option is to get out
And that is not even easy to do. To pack up a lifetime and simply move on
This has been a really long hard road😢
Emotional chaos indeed
Both of my parents are narcs my grandma saved me from that but she suffered abuse as well she showed love but I had to grow up fast defending my parents but as I got older and suffered abuse myself I see what she is saying now
Having learned the truth, now comes another challenging part of the healing: Identity. Cleary it was stolen from us. Who do 'we' choose to be now that we are finally free?
Nothing but chaos,concussion,lying!!
I refer to narc abuse as spiritual rape
Wow 🤔
I'm going to hold onto your definition for future thought
That's exactly what I told him.
Great quote. i always think of the narcissist as one of those medieval torturers.
If you let a narcissist control your thoughts you are not spiritual.
One of the formal definitions of rape is "a violation." Yes, lies, manipulation, deceit are forms of rape. In fact, the criminal justice system is beginning to recognize it as a form of sexual assault.
Kati Morgan is top shelf.
He used to punch himself in the head.. when he raged .and I remember thinking Omg what did I get into..this man is very sick..I'm still traumatized by the abuse
I will never forget one of the first times my covert said something that was referencing his causes. But before I discovered he was a narc. He said " I don't like to be told 'no'". I said "no one likes to hear 'no'. In my career I hear 20 'no's' to any one 'yes'. Grow up and take the adult path when a no is given to you! "
Really like how Kati is so matter of fact about why a narcissist acts the way they do. It doesn't really give you a chance to get emotional about it and then give ways that you can handle yourself with that person. Dr. C does that as well, its just a different style and hearing them both together is like receiving new, amazing tools in the toolbox for the next time this situation pops up. Great interview!
Narcissists are data collectors and it’s also unnerving when they show compassion & empathy, even though shallow, to everyone except their partner &/or family. Just realizing this is a blatant red flag 🚩
What ever they think in the moment is what's best and the whole time they scheming to get what they want no matter what. The victims become lonely and get accused of being who they are. Generalizing can become an issue.
You are describing some of my older siblings and my spouse my biggest problem is I feel empathy for their childhood trauma ....
Limiting the amount of time I spend with the narc is a great idea. It will reduce my daily exposure and allow me to feel more in control of me and my time. Thank you for the video!
Makes good sense ❤
She got the narc definition spot on.
The least contact, the better off I am. I can pray for her - the less resentment about her verbal abuse, etc. I also pray for me, and then the awareness of Jesus's love for me reassures me that my sister's behavior doesn't have any real power over me unless I allow it to. I just do whatever I'd do anyway without all that mess. It helps me also to think, "If this person were ok, what would they want for me?" - then act accordingly.
I appreciate this video it nails so much of the dynamics between people with narcissi personalities . but i must tell you and i listen to a lot of these experts such as Dr. carter Dr. Ramani Rebecca Zung etc. but im just not as impressed with Kari , her delivery , she talks in more of academic dialog which is ok I guess but she wont be heard on the level she needs to help clients . All the experts i mentioned are heard and their knowledge is accepted which i think is the purpose in choosing their careers . If it wasnt for Dr. Carter hopping in once in a while and speaking i would have been bored to death and moved on. I could never stick with a therapist like Ms Morton I just wouldnt feel she gets it . I would be wrong probably but she just seems to be so split on her analysis .
Gang stalking is a crime against humanity.
The worst thing you can’t get back is time. Looking back, 32 years of abusive marriage, what a waste of my time. Sadly he passed away a year ago, I’m still dealing with the painful experience, but I’m slowly healing and I remind myself daily, he can’t hurt me anymore
Apart from shame and pain there is also a percentage of selfish WICKEDNESS in a true narcissist which gives them PLEASURE knowing that they cause suffering to their victim.
It is important that the side of WICKEDNESS is pointed out otherwise we are treating these selfish manipulative wicked people with kid gloves which makes it easier for them to continue in their WICKEDNESS.
After ten years, the compassion for the wounded core and inability to express was what kept me from cleanly cutting things off. I no longer have compassion for a continued choice. Everything and anything but the truth. Not worth it
Thank you, Dr. C, Kati is so down to earth, as you are, and sincere in her communication. I've been with a narc spouse for 47 years and stay as far away as I can most of the day, to rejuvenate myself. Many years ago, he said something that he had heard from a co-worker, and he enjoyed it so much that he has repeated it often to me..." when you find a good horse, you ride him".
He expects me to do everything at home, but complains to others that I am controlling. I am actually laughing as I write this. Another phrase he he is always saying to everyone after a goodbye or at the end of a phone conversation is..." Ok, you're in control ".
He fits the narc bill precisely, and I the trauma bonded individual. But I have learned so much from you, I am growing exponentially. Thank you so much.