Listening to the discussion between two individuals who are mentally stable while discussing the subject of narcissistic people is very very enlightening. Thanks Dr. C that’s again you have helped those of us dealing with this weird sickness.
It’s is hard to be under the control of a narcissist when they act different outside the relationship. They make you feel like you are the problem bc “See how everyone likes me and not you? I’m normal, you’re not.” It makes you take any extremely defensive posture. It’s awful.
Yes, the narcissist tries very hard at be more "popular" since everything is a competition for him/her. However I found that it only appears that way, many people silently find the narcissist strange for coming on too strong, trying too hard. Be patient, be above it and try not to compete with the narcissist.
It is all about generating negative emotions like jealousy , anger or shame in you . If he/ she gets you to act on these emotions the narcissist obtains a lot of narc supply.@@amandaliverpool3374
You guys are so on target. I am in defence mode from the moment he wakes up in the morning until he goes to sleep at night. Its exhausting. I live for the moments he is gone from the house.
@@cynthiafortier2540 If only it was that easy ,if you leave with no support net at all on top of years of emotional abuse the last thing you want to do is become homeless ,the narc will do anything to put you in a holding position even when you do get out ,it is hard ,so i totally understand why people stay .That doesn't mean you can't get out , people need to plan the leaving .
Has anyone else had the experience of being around a narcissist who shames you for reading? My younger sister and my father-in-law have shamed, not only me, but my kids & husband, too.... for reading books, of all things. I wonder if they feel threatend by authors and are worried that we will learn something that they don't know.
Yep, I have. Some of the doctors and nurses at the VA told me "You stay out dem books! Stay out dem books!" They told me reading is "dangerous". I should only listen to them. I remember being told to "Stay in those books!" by teachers when I was a kid. The world has turned upside down and inside out. Up is down and left is right because "the eXpErTs said so".
I read DOZENS of theology books over the years. My ex once walked by me as I was reading a book by a theologian written in the 1600s. She looked at me and said, "you know you're weird!" I just laughed and said, "yeah, I know." But she definitely HATED me reading instead of focusing on her, usually doing nothing.
Maybe that's it. Or, it's self esteem/ envy on their part. I have had people say "I wish I had time to read" as I f they are too important for such an activity... It does sound arrogant and a put down in their tone. Is that shaming?
I love books, and think reading is one of the most attractive qualities in a partner. Dating a reader is no guarantee against narcissism, but someone who turns their nose up to books is turning their nose up to learning new things and information, so I am happy to move on.
I dated a narcissist for a few months and it didn't take me long to see the narc traits! I'm glad I left when I did. His emotional immaturity was a huge red flag🚩
You could get to know if your narcissist partner is cheating or having an affair with someone else by just discreetly spying on their calls, socials,and locations and "Shadowbyte7" can help with that and he's reliable
*Projection* ... True my late mother-in-law would project her stuff onto me by telling me I ..."always hurt her" ... when in fact she was the one hurting me by saying mean & cruel things to me every chance she got. I never said anything mean to her. I knew she was projecting her own bad behavior onto me, but it's still a difficult experience to go through. So little by little, I had to disconnect from her. And I eventually went no contact with her -- and she really hated that. But I had to go no contact to preserve my own inner peace and mental health.
I wish I could go no contact, right now I'm stuck due to ill health I can't move. Dr. C. and his info has helped immeasurably. Funny how they're always hurt by us but we cannot be hurt by them. They're perfect apparently. Absolutely nuts that they won't take onboard the rotten things they do
I went no contact with my MIL as well. It's been over two years now and has been the best decision for my mental health. It was scary at first not knowing how things would turn out. She still tries to get my husband to bring me along the rare times that he visits. I will never go back and allow her to mess with my head ever again. She will be 90 soon and will expect to be adored on her birthday. I refuse to be a part of it.
I’m no/very low contact with my MIL for the same reason. It’s awful to be targeted by someone so aggressive who doesn’t want things to be nice between you, just wants narcissistic supply and someone to blame.
Boy, it's not easy being in a relationship with someone who is high conflict. Most of the time I'm just confused by the anger. It's almost like you've got a dig deep to even get a hint of what might be going on with them, but I've learned to listen for clues. I hope the best for everyone who goes through this. It's not easy❤
You could get to know if your narcissist partner is cheating or having an affair with someone else by just discreetly spying on their calls, socials,and locations and "Shadowbyte7" can help with that and he's reliable
This is an amazing comment, so spot on, thank you. It really resonates with me. I’m currently in the very midst of this situation. Learning so much from this channel….AND the comments! Thank you
One of the most counter-productive things I've ever done is have my textbook narcissist father come to my therapist with me. He came with me to several over the years and, while they were my therapists (because dog forbid he should see one), they were professionals who were aware of my flaws. I don't think he heard a word that they had to say because even if he had been listening, he was hearing it through a distorted filter. He was on the defensive and left in a strop every time. Thank you, Dr. Les and Dr. Brillon, for your insights.❤ This conversation has helped me put some things into perspective. I never really thought about how emotionally immature a man nearly 40 years my senior could be. (He's an older dad). He had a difficult childhood in some respects marred by shame and fear but won't admit it and seems to be really convinced of his own superiority. The mask never comes down. And he has rage, but so do I. I'm not going to let it poison me any more.
Your last three sentences are so powerful. The mask DOESN'T come down, but at least I can now see the mask for what it is...pure illusion. I, too, have rage. But, at least I now can identify the underlying emotion and achieve some balance of kindness and compassion vs explosion. I, too, am not going to let it poison me anymore. Period. Peace and Love on the journey!
This was such a great topic. I realise how much my emotions were suppressed during childhood. This did not give me a great start especially dealing with future narcs. But, I sure am more prepared now and still learning for what's left of my future. Jim was a great guest 👍 thank you
To me, it’s so unfortunate that narcs MUST compete AND be in the superior position … I’ve had to study long and hard to get my head around my older sister’s behavior toward me going all the way back to childhood. She finally got the upper hand (which I now know she always wanted) when I went to work part time at her law firm. One of her biggest clients took a liking to me and rather than being grateful that her client found a likable (lowly) staff person, her long-standing jealousy shit hit the fan again and I was subject to all kinds of contempt, stonewalling, daily discards, being gossiped about, lies, passive-aggressive anger, stonewalling, acting like I didn’t even exist, she acted like I was SO beneath her and eventually played a spying role on me that led to my getting fired (while, of course, voting NOT to fire me so she didn’t look bad for wanting her own sister fired!). OMG, the final discard was so brutal, hidden behind the screen of an extremely biased “investigator” who just took her/their side of the story and subject me to 2.5 hours of accusations … I was SO GRATEFUL to be OUT of there that I have never looked back. I’m sad for her that she has to live this way, that my washing my hands of her caused family disruption, but I seriously can’t take one more ounce of her projection, judgement, looking down her nose, none of it. For my own soul, I have to be done. I know she won’t listen or admit she did ANYthing wrong, so I’m staying at peace with my own character and integrity and that’s more than enough for me. It’s a shame, but I can’t fix her shit and now I know, either can she. The End.
Great conversation! Physical distance buffers have helped me the most to deal with narcissists. Texts can be better than verbal communication with certain individuals who are particularly argumentative. It can help to distract narcissists with safe topics - for example, something that flatters them and gives them easy supply. Whenever possible, frame the conversations in safe directions that distract them from focusing on you and stirring up problems. It’s an art, for sure. Give them as little ammunition as possible that they can use against you. If they know your plans and those plans don’t include what they want from you, then remain silent until you’ve already carried out your intentions. Lead them on in the opposite direction of your plans, if you must. And don’t feel bad about these little white lies. This is what the narcissist has forced on you for your own peace of mind and survival. They don’t respect your autonomy and sovereign decision making. But that’s not your problem. My advice is to find all the techniques that work best to keep the difficult narcissist at bay and disrupting your time as little as possible. When you find yourself ready to type a long letter to the narcissist, remind yourself that he/she isn’t going to change with your enlightened reasoning. Then remind yourself of all that time you’re wasting on someone who is permanently stuck as they are. I will sometimes write long letters that I never intend to send as a form of personal therapy - just to get it off my chest. Over time, I have less need for that process. That’s the point of acceptance and knowing that my own defense system is working; not allowing the narcissist to penetrate too deeply. It’s always worse in person when someone is being emotionally and psychologically abusive. And it’s always worse when it’s family you don’t want to completely block out of your life.
Fantastic interview!!! If you've described one narcissist, you've described them all. It's uncanny how they all have identical traits and behaviors, like cells in a petri dish dividing and replicating. I strongly resonate with everything covered in this video, and found it incredibly insightful. Thank you!
Great interview and spot on. Recently I was up north and wanted to share some good news with my dad (high on the narc spectrum), he decided that I was going to lay into him, so he laid into me. He was yelling and telling me how it was, I went into the house got my purse and left, no conversation on my part. The next day before I went home I stopped by to let him know, if you do this again I will leave again. That is when he told me why he laid into me. This is how a parent treats their child??? Emotionally immature for sure!!! Again, yelling louder does not make his words more true.
In the marriage with one. He would never answer a question. Even at his new job, he would answer a question that wasn’t asked. Finally, the boss got tired of it and sent him for a hearing test. He had to get a $1,000 hearing aid. He may have had some mid hearing loss in one ear, but not to the extent that he was acting like. 😂😂 but, one day after 30 years, I looked up the question, why won’t he answer my questions. Dr. Romani popped up. And boy, I’ve been watching her and now this man every day. I’ve finally realized what is going on. I’ve now been married 34 years. But now I know what I’m dealing with.
@@SurvivingNarcissismThis was so wonderful! I am the adult daughter of a covert narcissist- it's tough. With your help, I figured out what was going on just two years ago. Thank you for your channel & for all that you are doing to bring awareness & healing to victims of this toxic & hurtful disorder. - DFW, Texas🙏🏾🦋
Thank you both! 45 year marriage w a narc h. Been out over a decade, but last night had a nightmare of the type in terrible interaction he and I would have. So many of your examples hit home.
I was in it for 47 years. I only understood what narcissism was the last month of our marriage. He is a covert narcissist... took a long time to finally understand what was going on all those years. So grateful to Dr. C for his insight and willingness to share his knowledge with survivors!
I escaped a destructive marriage of nearly three decades with a covert narcissist and his equally mal-adjusted mother. It wasn't until I fled our home nearly two years ago for personal safety, that I was able to begin seeing and understanding the source of my emotional and sometimes physical trauma. Over the past year, your online podcasts have given me invaluable insights helping me to identify my problem with their problematic personalities and troubled pasts. I wasn't defective after all. I just needed your help to learn how to stand up to the bullying and to end it for good by going no contact after our divorce. For an empathic person who wants to be supportive, no contact is unnatural but often essential. Thank you for showing me that civility and respect need to flow both ways in healthy relationships. Thank you for giving me, and so many others, the conviction to follow through on a path toward healing with confidence and dignity! You are amazing Dr. Carter!
I’ve had exactly that. I just got back from California helping my brother move and when I got home the narcissist tried to trigger me and then ran around the house playing the victim because he thought that what he did actually made me upset. It didn’t work because I’m on to it. This guy knows I’m moving out and so I shouldn’t be surprised to the childish behavior because he no longer has someone else to do his dirty work so know he has to go back to doing it himself. Unbelievable 🤭🤭🤭
Understanding the self loathing that narcs have makes me almost feel sorry for them. Almost. But they're so dangerous! It's like the story of the snake the woman found freezing in the cold. DON'T TOUCH!!!! It's still a snake!
Exactly...You can't afford to hug a Great White 🦈 even if it IS suffering in some way.Just stay safely up on the ⛵ & let it keep right on swimming to it's next potential prey.The moment prey begins to feel sorry for a predator...It's dinner😅.
I always think of my elderly mother as a crab. Soft squishy on the inside, relax my guard and then I'm in those sharp cutting pincers. My fam is always like just relax be yourself, each and every time I've let my guard down I've fallen into that trap. Death by a thousand nips!
Spot on!!! It is extremely hard being in a relationship with these people. I used to fall into a hole of depression and want to die because I didn't understand what was going on and why everything "was my fault". I have changed over the years. I educated myself of this type of personality disorder, and I see a therapist weekly. It takes a very strong mind to deal with these individuals.
I don't apologize, anymore. I don't explain myself, anymore. I do however try very hard not to laugh when he's throwing a fit! When i caught him cheating, tried to mend marriage, only to watch him refuse to help, to watch him watch our marriage "bleed out"! I mourned its death, & now i dont give a flying flip about him anymore.
How fascinating, comfortable, enlightening, & inspirational to watch two compassionate, learned men discussing remaining "separate & distinct" in response to a Narcissist. Also, excellent role models. A pleasure, TY 🙏
My husband of 35 yrs beat me down emotionally so bad that I had a breakdown and my primary care doctor sent me to a psychiatrist who was convinced by my husband that I was BIpolar 2 and he treated me with powerful meds for almost 10 years. Finally this summer a very traumatic event opened my eyes to the fact my husband was a covert narcissist and I went to a therapist who sent me to a new psychiatrist who did an evaluation of me and said I scored very low in the are of the Bipolar disorder spectrum. After further visits with her she is convinced I am not bipolar but in fact I’ve been emotionally abused by my husband for 35 yrs, suffered the loss of my 15 yr old daughter, struggled with the chronic serious illnesses of 2 other children and all of it has taken a severe toll on me over the years. First thing she did was change my medication and the first thing I did was separate from my husband and consult with a lawyer to start the divorce process.
Living 65 years so far with a mother who is a malignant narcissist with many BPD boxes checked, she has wreaked havoc on this whole family. I am the one left to care for she and dad, both on hospice. And of course, the one she was the most abusive to. If I didn't have my Savior and people like you Dr Carter, no telling where I'd be. Dad is still her enabler at 90 and in terrible health. She only gets worse with age. She's 87 and completely healthy.
Dr. C, I am so happy to see this because I follow him as well and I love his calm presence and delivery style as well. The two of you each embody the true essence of an excellent therapist.
What comes to my mind when I think of aggressive and manipulative tactics is: my daughter-in-law. It took me 27 years to realize what she was doing to not only me, but to my family as well. Normal people don't realize what underlying tactics the narcissist is using to accomplish their need for superiority over everyone else. It was truly a nightmare every day to try to live amicably with her and, at the same time to protect myself from her anger and try to keep my sanity.
I totally get that (the rages, yes), the passive aggression silent treatments the quips and contempt and disdain. I found that the worst growing up right up until the last few years. Now I see it for what it is and don't bother with them, don't give them so many chances to put me in that position. However, putting a child in that position and continuing that lifelong where you end up in constant rumination! What did I do/say. What a relief not to be doing that any more! No more working out the rubbish, projected my way is a massive relief, clarity of thought☺☺. I spent my life working out their thoughts like a mind reader, no more!✌
I'm out of a long term narcissist relationship. I'm so glad I learned what was happening to me. It took me 4 years to leave fight or flight and I am never going back. One month and 2 days of feeling and doing what I want. He's stalking me and begging me to come back using manipulation and guilt. After 8 years of lies, gaslighting, projection, manipulation and guilt has worn me out. I hope I come back from this and lose the hatred in my heart.
I hope all is well for Jim Brillon. I'm really missing his notifications and uploads. I learn so much from him. I hope you can have him on again, Dr Carter.
I really do need to go back and visit all of your past videos. I have been married to my narcissist spouse for 25 years. He is an overt narcissist. I have a neighbor/friend who is a vulnerable narcissist. Between these two people in my life, I sure need constructive coaching on how to deal with them and how not to get sucked into their head games (and their whole encompassing world of craziness). Out of all the channels talking about narcissism on RUclips, your channel is my favorite!!! I love your friendly, non pushy down to earth manner. I love that you offer wonderful strategies and coping skills. And I love that you give us ways to improve ourselves. You show us how to grow beyond getting sucked into the narcissists baiting and help us to validate ourselves. For many years in my marriage I got sucked into all his craziness! I didn't know what I was dealing with. He sucked my joy and energy dry every day!!! Now I know what I am dealing with... both with my husband and my friend. I really need to buckle down and learn your techniques, coping skills and self affirmation truths. Thank you for posting all these videos for those of us in desperate need of them!
In conflict it shows their emotional wellbeing, malignant narcist can be aggressive. Grandiosity makes them powerfull but they lash out in anger confronted with reality. Manipulator to put the blame elsewhere. Shame on mental healthcare and police who don't understand this.
Happy to be team healthy member. Thank you Mr Jim Brillon I'm french too. Lol I appreciate your saying how hard it has been, acknowledging my truths. I have found my healing resources . I have done the work. The longer I'm away from dysfunctional, toxic behaviors. Being a hard worker, got off the road to hell, got my life back. Breathing & smiling Non reactive my power, knowledge getting wiser.
Thank you so much for having Jim Brillon on today, Dr. Les! I've been watching his shorts for months now. What a delight to enjoy the calming discussion between two loving and helpful therapists! Y'all are the best. Thanks again!
Our relationship therapist was completely snowed by my narcissistic ex. He came off like the long-suffering, noble victim, while all I could do was cry and ask how I needed to change. He lied numerous times to said therapist, which was deeply shocking to me. That behavior was what convinced me that something was badly wrong. He ended therapy permanently just as I was about to discuss his lying, framing me as manipulative and abusive. It was wild.
My brother exactly! I never knew this was a thing with other people. My brother has always been controlling, manipulative, belittling, trouble with his mouth with everyone. He's always right in his mind. He's vengeful and wants to sue everyone. Threatens everyone, leaves nasty voice messages on phone. The list goes on. He's 57 now, I'm 55. He actually became worse the last 10 years or so. Man, to lie and make up stories that we know he's never done. It's like, we were there and you weren't. He lives in different world and always makes a woe is me thing. Try making people feel guilty when he put himself into his position. My husband and I helped him financially and let him live with us. Yeah, he also did anger management. His ex wife sure dodged a bullet. Thanks for this video.
Thank you for illuminating how I mistook narcissism for substance abuse - defensiveness in the guise of accusation, seething anger, creating drama to deflect. Damn. It was so easy for me to believe that with help from Alanon I could detach, respond with love but take care of myself. But the narcissist eventually needed ME as a substance. And there’s no protection against that - at least for me. Now I thank God for all those tools I had and new ones I’ve learned here - which I use mainly on myself!
Thank you Dr. C. Dr. Brillon is a great expert guest . I appreciate how you both actually exemplified respect, civility and dignity in your interactions 👏👏👏
Thank you both so much for touching on the passive-aggressive narcissistic behaviors & them making you feel like you have to apologize & you don't even know what you're apologizing for😄👍🏻👍🏻!Years ago as a teen I had a "friend" with a lot of this covert 💩 starting to emerge from her & it was baffling...I only tried to apologize once & didn't even know what I did because she just suddenly discarded me and I never heard from her again.Looking back she may have not hoovered me because I DIDN'T repeatedly try to "chase" her by groveling on my knees.There were plenty of 🚩s but I didn't know this was a thing back then,I just knew it was something not good.
Thank you a million times over! I grew up with parents, especially my father that would not allow me or my brother to show anger. My father had a hair-trigger for anger. We grew up afraid to show any emotion other than what might have been perceived as positive. My brother paid for that, as he is now, in my opinion, a covert narcissist. I, the sister, was the scapegoat. I am an empath. I don't know how we escaped our family of origin still breathing! At least God steered me in the right direction because now, I understand what happened and why we were so disfunctional as a small family of four.
They get extremely angry when I stay calm through their raging and telling me exactly what they think I am and this can become physical beatings or and never knowing what will happen after they leave and come back.
My step mom got angry that I wasn’t falling for her narcissistic bullying of me anymore so ne summer when my dad went outta town for 3 months to work remotely? She picked me out the day he left! I was 12 it was 1982. No cell phone I had no clue how to reach my dad. It was mid June school was out. I spent that summer sleeping with my German shepherd in a abounded garage down the street and under big trees in various parks. They can and will do insanity level things even too kids!
Sorry spellcheck wasn’t on kicked me outta house. Actually locked me out. Had a paper route it provided enough for me and dog to eat. Actually L it was one the best summers of my life.
That sounds potentially like a narc that's slipped down the slope into sociopathy...These ones are REALLY nasty.They don't get better.If possible minimize contact or preferably go no-contact whenever you get the opportunity especially since physical harm appears to be involved,it can potentially escalate into something news-worthy.Please be careful.
when confronted , the three, (two landlords), i have had the unpleasant time to deal with, revert to like dealing with a little child, instaed of a responsible form of dialogue hence issue blown out of proportion where the exchange becomes mentally exhausting...ground hog day scenario. *what i have learnt after discovering via videos like this, ... is i do have the upper hand as i now KNOW what i am dealing with., reminding myself this is a mental health disorder.
Having been raised in this type of family, then as my counselor pointed out. "You married your entire family (mother + 7 siblings), all wrapped into one person. 😮 ya for me. Now 20yrs on my own, listing to this wonderful podcast, I can now sit on the sideline while not being in the middle of the constance crazy making. Thank you for all you do🎉
Thank you both. I do believe that when a narcissist triggers you, it is next to impossible to stay calm. I personally want them to know that I'm not going to accept their comments or behaviors and I'm letting them know it in no uncertain terms. They take a turn for the worse when treating me that way in terms of my attitude toward them and my anger. No one can treat me that way and not expect the worst version of me. I want them to run for the hills and they do!
In my 24 yr with a narc/addict I was never included in his “outside “ people. As a couple I felt her was ashamed???? Of me???? Now I understand he had to separate to project his grandiosity outside the marriage. Isolate me . I as seeing now my intelligence & socialization with others was a threat to him. He held me back in so many ways An acquaintance just said to me “ He could never hold a candle to you.” Time reveals so much. Enjoyed this Dr C . Another educational video TY
This discussion helped me immensely. That and months of therapy with experts in parental narcissistic abuse have helped a lot. Love your program. I choose team healthy and to talk constructively when there is an issue to resolve.
The narcissist I was around told me for no reason out of the blue aggressively, “ If you make a fool out out of me . I mean I don’t think you know what your dealing with !”
That's on point! They're hopeless, no introspection and never wrong! Impossible to be close with them because you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop if you do or say the wrong thing, EVEN when it's their fault. They think they're perfect, just impossible as they're never answerable
Jim explains the narcissist to a Tee! After my 4 years of research on this mental disorder, I can say with 100% confidence, the ex husband tests positive!
Exactly right guys He (adult son) attacked me (mum) he was given kind explanation = TRIGGERED Explosive reaction Vile nasty long held hatred. Demanding I /we apologize fully without excuses For what... Loving his adult kids that he pushed away with his OWN controlling manipulative nonsense..... Breath gone NO contact Wish I had Kown it was Narcissim years ago. Would have saved me of much smirking hurtful eggshells ❤️ thanks guys
This was an excellent, interview and discussion about narcissism. It’s so nice hearing other peoples perspectives. Also, he’s out in my neck of the woods, so I will definitely be adding him to my resource list moving forward. Thanks to this wonderful discussion, thanks Doctor C; you are the best.
This guest, Jim Brillon is so on point - my sister who has picked up the narcisistic baton of our deceased father falsely accused me to the family attorney of harrassing her & that she was going to get a no contact order. After I informed the family attorney that if my sister obtained a no contact order under false pretenses - which is a crime (most states - 1st offense is a misdemeanor and 2nd offense is a felony) I would hire a criminal defense attorney and seek to sue her for malicious prosecution, emotional distress and defamation, I did not hear a peep from her. We have to stand up to those who have narcisissistic tendencies and bring them down a notch! I have spolen with an attorney and will get lawyered up against her! She is going to regret messing with me! I will make her life an absolute nightmare (from a legal angle!!) I have had enough!
Exactly. Boundaries don’t work for narcissists. When I say “I don’t like the way you talk to me, then walk away”, then he yelled “yeah, too F bad, how about I never speak to you?” Then turn around he asked me to help him on stuff… cuz he’s hearing impaired.
Wonderful hearing from Jim Brillon, what a great therapist! love to see you both working together. Living in a very rural, very conservative state I feel like I want to move to Cali to be around more like minded people! maybe my task is to stay here and be the healthy, open-minded person as an example to others who are not. Thank you to your both - I feel inspired.
This is so difficult with an elderly parent. My only option is to go no contact but I'm not ready to do that to an 86 year old because that in itself carries a heavy psychological burden and it's traumatic. Could you maybe do a video specific about parents? I mean, I don't think there is a solution other than one day they are no longer around and then you can start to heal. But what a sad thought that is.
Hi Susan, please consider reading Lindsay C. Gibsons' book on Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents. I learned so much from both her books. The second one is full of strategies, particulary for when you have to interact with that elderly parent. I send a warm hello and best wishes to you. Go Team Healthy! ✨️
Really excellent exchange between both of you sharing your experience. This helped me so much get a grasp on those loose ends. How do I get over my sense of remorse and loss at not having any resources or support to fall back on, not even my self as a child of a narcissist.
So, the "shame" the narcissist feels is due to their own grandiosity of themselves. And the retaliation, and rage is because "you" have the audacity to threaten that grandiosity. It could be using a word they don't know, " insinuating" your work, joy, eyebrows are better than theirs. This is what is behind the "competition" for any and all.. including victim hood. Anything can and does triggers THEIR "shame", and this is why it actually has nothing to do with you. It's their perception of themselves as gods/goddesses and ALL is under their domain/narrative. Their limited emotional development, and either-or thought process also doesn't allow for introspection. Meaning they are not part of the "problem", the negative "issues" because they are all good. And "therefore"( of course using their perspective of reasoning) It's ALL you. Your own boundaries say, "My own narrative/ character I am defining myself." "WE" can be beneficial to each other in these areas...." A mutual relationship. Like a Venn diagram. Otherwise, it's best to say... "See ya by" Tootles. Time to get outta Dodge. Run for the hills. Then they start/ continue the intermittent/trama bonding.." Oh...Darling..." Am I close Dr. Les?
Yes...Keep in mind that their grandiosity is actually a major effort to compensate for their hidden self-loathing. They dread having their humanity exposed. That's what I mean when I say they are shame based or fear based.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you for replying. Their humanity? They self- loath due to being a human?Being born AS a human? As to what? A robot? Is it being born...period? "Since you forced me to exist I will demand everything. Control everything.?" So it's projected on to others? The feelings of love and grieving l know they consider vulnerabilities. Sad, it's s also awe, joy and beauty too.
There's something quite important, I think, regarding this point about anger. In my experience, these kinds of people have relentlessly demanded that I never be angry about my rights being violated, so much so that they'd explode into screaming tantrums accusing me of being angry for calmly saying, "I'm not okay with that". This was supported by a demented moral notion of self-denial, really a slavery morality: it was openly regarded as morally right to always let other people walk all over me, and the greatest of moral wrongs to stand up for myself. Strange how that was a pervasive rule for me, not for them, and somehow my compliance with it would make them morally righteous.
I understand. There seems to be so much of losses and grief. I'm healing, but it's very slow. I think I have to go slowly so I won't lose my mind or my core.
I’m a believer in talking about any problems .. he was apparently the same. He would demoralise me intimidated me with so many questions that were unbelievably insulting.. but you react he storms out every time.. we were laughing and chatting minutes before he switched.. he would leave and tell me he didn’t like conflict and my reactions to his criticism was bizarre and not normal behaviour and he left because I was abusing him for defending myself.. he would be sorry sometimes but most of the time he was teaching me a lesson… well he was thank you very much.. he was teaching me that his behaviour is resembling a past relationship I got away from.. that’s exactly what I’ve done but he is not happy and his anger is surely coming out more and the messages feel like they are from a stranger.. he’s turned to emails because I’ve blocked him on everything else.. Out of one month I’ve only had 2 nights in which I didn’t receive these messages.. I have been strong enough to report him to the police because he has been hanging around my house in dark clothes even caught him at night outside my door as I was taking rubbish to my bin and he claims he had just got here .. yet my sensory light wasn’t on and he was at the wrong side of my door for him to have just walked down my driveway 😢
They take on the traits of their abusers rather than thinking i am never going to do that but then they can't go inward and introspect can they, luckily i can!❤😂🎉
Not once was I allowed to be angry so it turned into anxiety. If I was trying to express to my kids that things were serious, but anger makes you a terrible person. Since narc didn’t take care of the kids I was constantly undermined and I had to work on keeping my kids from being narcissistic.
At 21:30 (ish).. "you both gotta own up to your part of the problem/issue".... That there is a pipe dream in this type of relationship. Only 1 of the "both" is able to do so. I've been stuck in the pipe dream way TO LONG and its so difficult to find my way out. I thank you for the videos and helpful information. I wish happiness and peace to all of you that have endured pain and suffering from a narcissist. Let's stay strong! We got this!
I have definitely detected self loathing in the narcissistic people I've known. There's definitely a projection of their failings upon others.
Listening to the discussion between two individuals who are mentally stable while discussing the subject of narcissistic people is very very enlightening. Thanks Dr. C that’s again you have helped those of us dealing with this weird sickness.
Absolutely. They are pessimists.
A creepy cousin who Molested ME; told the entire Next GENERATION THAT " I wanted to play doctor with her.🤮🤢🤮
It’s is hard to be under the control of a narcissist when they act different outside the relationship. They make you feel like you are the problem bc “See how everyone likes me and not you? I’m normal, you’re not.” It makes you take any extremely defensive posture. It’s awful.
Yes, the narcissist tries very hard at be more "popular" since everything is a competition for him/her. However I found that it only appears that way, many people silently find the narcissist strange for coming on too strong, trying too hard. Be patient, be above it and try not to compete with the narcissist.
@@mariaawake4502 Absolutely. They go overboard. It's cringe worthy 😬
It is all about generating negative emotions like jealousy , anger or shame in you . If he/ she gets you to act on these emotions the narcissist obtains a lot of narc supply.@@amandaliverpool3374
So true!
Same here!
When you feel like saying … they see the fake you , that’s what ppl are seeing
You guys are so on target. I am in defence mode from the moment he wakes up in the morning until he goes to sleep at night. Its exhausting. I live for the moments he is gone from the house.
@@SaddleRockManitou I fully understand. Likely , I will be same as you if I can ever get away.
If that's true why wouldn't you get out? No one deserves a miserable life with a narc. I'd rather be homeless.
@@cynthiafortier2540 If only it was that easy ,if you leave with no support net at all on top of years of emotional abuse the last thing you want to do is become homeless ,the narc will do anything to put you in a holding position even when you do get out ,it is hard ,so i totally understand why people stay .That doesn't mean you can't get out , people need to plan the leaving .
@@cynthiafortier2540 I'm 71 years old. Retired. No resourses
@@KellyKurcina Thank you so much.
Has anyone else had the experience of being around a narcissist who shames you for reading? My younger sister and my father-in-law have shamed, not only me, but my kids & husband, too.... for reading books, of all things. I wonder if they feel threatend by authors and are worried that we will learn something that they don't know.
Yep, I have. Some of the doctors and nurses at the VA told me "You stay out dem books! Stay out dem books!" They told me reading is "dangerous". I should only listen to them. I remember being told to "Stay in those books!" by teachers when I was a kid. The world has turned upside down and inside out. Up is down and left is right because "the eXpErTs said so".
I read DOZENS of theology books over the years. My ex once walked by me as I was reading a book by a theologian written in the 1600s. She looked at me and said, "you know you're weird!" I just laughed and said, "yeah, I know." But she definitely HATED me reading instead of focusing on her, usually doing nothing.
Maybe that's it. Or, it's self esteem/ envy on their part. I have had people say "I wish I had time to read" as I f they are too important for such an activity... It does sound arrogant and a put down in their tone. Is that shaming?
Yes!!!! Very Much so!! Thanks for sharing this, it makes me know it's not just me!! ❤️
I love books, and think reading is one of the most attractive qualities in a partner. Dating a reader is no guarantee against narcissism, but someone who turns their nose up to books is turning their nose up to learning new things and information, so I am happy to move on.
I dated a narcissist for a few months and it didn't take me long to see the narc traits! I'm glad I left when I did. His emotional immaturity was a huge red flag🚩
Boy, is this timely! Thank you so much for continuing to support those of us who are standing up to narcissists.
You could get to know if your narcissist partner is cheating or having an affair with someone else by just discreetly spying on their calls, socials,and locations and "Shadowbyte7" can help with that and he's reliable
DIGNITY CIVILITY AND RESPECT
*Projection* ...
True my late mother-in-law would project her stuff onto me by telling me I ..."always hurt her" ... when in fact she was the one hurting me by saying mean & cruel things to me every chance she got. I never said anything mean to her. I knew she was projecting her own bad behavior onto me, but it's still a difficult experience to go through. So little by little, I had to disconnect from her. And I eventually went no contact with her -- and she really hated that. But I had to go no contact to preserve my own inner peace and mental health.
Same for me, no contact was the only solution
I wish I could go no contact, right now I'm stuck due to ill health I can't move. Dr. C. and his info has helped immeasurably. Funny how they're always hurt by us but we cannot be hurt by them. They're perfect apparently. Absolutely nuts that they won't take onboard the rotten things they do
If at all possible grey rock is best for me.
I went no contact with my MIL as well. It's been over two years now and has been the best decision for my mental health. It was scary at first not knowing how things would turn out. She still tries to get my husband to bring me along the rare times that he visits. I will never go back and allow her to mess with my head ever again. She will be 90 soon and will expect to be adored on her birthday. I refuse to be a part of it.
I’m no/very low contact with my MIL for the same reason. It’s awful to be targeted by someone so aggressive who doesn’t want things to be nice between you, just wants narcissistic supply and someone to blame.
Thank God its all coming out!!!
Boy, it's not easy being in a relationship with someone who is high conflict. Most of the time I'm just confused by the anger. It's almost like you've got a dig deep to even get a hint of what might be going on with them, but I've learned to listen for clues. I hope the best for everyone who goes through this. It's not easy❤
You could get to know if your narcissist partner is cheating or having an affair with someone else by just discreetly spying on their calls, socials,and locations and "Shadowbyte7" can help with that and he's reliable
This is an amazing comment, so spot on, thank you. It really resonates with me. I’m currently in the very midst of this situation. Learning so much from this channel….AND the comments! Thank you
I loved the “You’re entitled to your distorted view of me” lol using that one…
Great response
One of the most counter-productive things I've ever done is have my textbook narcissist father come to my therapist with me. He came with me to several over the years and, while they were my therapists (because dog forbid he should see one), they were professionals who were aware of my flaws. I don't think he heard a word that they had to say because even if he had been listening, he was hearing it through a distorted filter. He was on the defensive and left in a strop every time. Thank you, Dr. Les and Dr. Brillon, for your insights.❤ This conversation has helped me put some things into perspective. I never really thought about how emotionally immature a man nearly 40 years my senior could be. (He's an older dad). He had a difficult childhood in some respects marred by shame and fear but won't admit it and seems to be really convinced of his own superiority. The mask never comes down. And he has rage, but so do I. I'm not going to let it poison me any more.
Thanks for sharing. And good for your internal strength!!
Your last three sentences are so powerful.
The mask DOESN'T come down, but at least I can now see the mask for what it is...pure illusion.
I, too, have rage. But, at least I now can identify the underlying emotion and achieve some balance of kindness and compassion vs explosion.
I, too, am not going to let it poison me anymore. Period.
Peace and Love on the journey!
This was such a great topic. I realise how much my emotions were suppressed during childhood. This did not give me a great start especially dealing with future narcs. But, I sure am more prepared now and still learning for what's left of my future.
Jim was a great guest 👍 thank you
Thanks, Amanda.
But at least you see it Amanda, and are working on you. Keep up the great job 😊 ❤ 😊 happy healing
Yes, Jim was a great guest, I agree 👍👍👍
Hi Amanda, so true. I'm with you. Me too. BTW, I love Jim Brillion's shorts too. I'm a subscriber. I'd recommend, for sure.
@jeanniek1498 Thank-you. Take care 💕
@nancytwigg4631 Thanks for the recommendation, Nancy. I'll definitely have a look. Take care 💕
To me, it’s so unfortunate that narcs MUST compete AND be in the superior position … I’ve had to study long and hard to get my head around my older sister’s behavior toward me going all the way back to childhood. She finally got the upper hand (which I now know she always wanted) when I went to work part time at her law firm. One of her biggest clients took a liking to me and rather than being grateful that her client found a likable (lowly) staff person, her long-standing jealousy shit hit the fan again and I was subject to all kinds of contempt, stonewalling, daily discards, being gossiped about, lies, passive-aggressive anger, stonewalling, acting like I didn’t even exist, she acted like I was SO beneath her and eventually played a spying role on me that led to my getting fired (while, of course, voting NOT to fire me so she didn’t look bad for wanting her own sister fired!). OMG, the final discard was so brutal, hidden behind the screen of an extremely biased “investigator” who just took her/their side of the story and subject me to 2.5 hours of accusations … I was SO GRATEFUL to be OUT of there that I have never looked back. I’m sad for her that she has to live this way, that my washing my hands of her caused family disruption, but I seriously can’t take one more ounce of her projection, judgement, looking down her nose, none of it. For my own soul, I have to be done. I know she won’t listen or admit she did ANYthing wrong, so I’m staying at peace with my own character and integrity and that’s more than enough for me. It’s a shame, but I can’t fix her shit and now I know, either can she. The End.
Great conversation! Physical distance buffers have helped me the most to deal with narcissists. Texts can be better than verbal communication with certain individuals who are particularly argumentative. It can help to distract narcissists with safe topics - for example, something that flatters them and gives them easy supply. Whenever possible, frame the conversations in safe directions that distract them from focusing on you and stirring up problems. It’s an art, for sure. Give them as little ammunition as possible that they can use against you. If they know your plans and those plans don’t include what they want from you, then remain silent until you’ve already carried out your intentions. Lead them on in the opposite direction of your plans, if you must. And don’t feel bad about these little white lies. This is what the narcissist has forced on you for your own peace of mind and survival. They don’t respect your autonomy and sovereign decision making. But that’s not your problem. My advice is to find all the techniques that work best to keep the difficult narcissist at bay and disrupting your time as little as possible. When you find yourself ready to type a long letter to the narcissist, remind yourself that he/she isn’t going to change with your enlightened reasoning. Then remind yourself of all that time you’re wasting on someone who is permanently stuck as they are. I will sometimes write long letters that I never intend to send as a form of personal therapy - just to get it off my chest. Over time, I have less need for that process. That’s the point of acceptance and knowing that my own defense system is working; not allowing the narcissist to penetrate too deeply. It’s always worse in person when someone is being emotionally and psychologically abusive. And it’s always worse when it’s family you don’t want to completely block out of your life.
That's 1 of the nastiest things about narcs...They make it so folks can't just be honest around them🙄.
Excellent! Thank you for your insight.
Terrific input! Thanks for sharing.
Very well said.
I totally agree with you!
Fantastic interview!!! If you've described one narcissist, you've described them all. It's uncanny how they all have identical traits and behaviors, like cells in a petri dish dividing and replicating. I strongly resonate with everything covered in this video, and found it incredibly insightful. Thank you!
Thanks, Jim clearly knows what he's talking about.
@@SurvivingNarcissism You both do! I am so grateful to have your channel as a resource ☺
Great interview and spot on. Recently I was up north and wanted to share some good news with my dad (high on the narc spectrum), he decided that I was going to lay into him, so he laid into me. He was yelling and telling me how it was, I went into the house got my purse and left, no conversation on my part. The next day before I went home I stopped by to let him know, if you do this again I will leave again. That is when he told me why he laid into me. This is how a parent treats their child??? Emotionally immature for sure!!! Again, yelling louder does not make his words more true.
OMG! "Look what i have to deal with".... after theyve gotten you to the point of "crazy". Jts all way toooo much!
In the marriage with one. He would never answer a question. Even at his new job, he would answer a question that wasn’t asked. Finally, the boss got tired of it and sent him for a hearing test. He had to get a $1,000 hearing aid. He may have had some mid hearing loss in one ear, but not to the extent that he was acting like. 😂😂 but, one day after 30 years, I looked up the question, why won’t he answer my questions. Dr. Romani popped up. And boy, I’ve been watching her and now this man every day. I’ve finally realized what is going on. I’ve now been married 34 years. But now I know what I’m dealing with.
Two of my favorite experts on this subject. I'm looking forward to tuning in!
Awesome, thank you!
@@SurvivingNarcissismThis was so wonderful! I am the adult daughter of a covert narcissist- it's tough. With your help, I figured out what was going on just two years ago. Thank you for your channel & for all that you are doing to bring awareness & healing to victims of this toxic & hurtful disorder. - DFW, Texas🙏🏾🦋
Thank you both! 45 year marriage w a narc h. Been out over a decade, but last night had a nightmare of the type in terrible interaction he and I would have. So many of your examples hit home.
The scars run deeply. It's been 9 years for me, and I'm still trying to educate myself on this disorder. Mostly to prevent a repeat experience.
I was in it for 47 years. I only understood what narcissism was the last month of our marriage. He is a covert narcissist... took a long time to finally understand what was going on all those years. So grateful to Dr. C for his insight and willingness to share his knowledge with survivors!
I escaped a destructive marriage of nearly three decades with a covert narcissist and his equally mal-adjusted mother. It wasn't until I fled our home nearly two years ago for personal safety, that I was able to begin seeing and understanding the source of my emotional and sometimes physical trauma. Over the past year, your online podcasts have given me invaluable insights helping me to identify my problem with their problematic personalities and troubled pasts. I wasn't defective after all. I just needed your help to learn how to stand up to the bullying and to end it for good by going no contact after our divorce. For an empathic person who wants to be supportive, no contact is unnatural but often essential. Thank you for showing me that civility and respect need to flow both ways in healthy relationships. Thank you for giving me, and so many others, the conviction to follow through on a path toward healing with confidence and dignity! You are amazing Dr. Carter!
I’ve had exactly that. I just got back from California helping my brother move and when I got home the narcissist tried to trigger me and then ran around the house playing the victim because he thought that what he did actually made me upset. It didn’t work because I’m on to it. This guy knows I’m moving out and so I shouldn’t be surprised to the childish behavior because he no longer has someone else to do his dirty work so know he has to go back to doing it himself. Unbelievable 🤭🤭🤭
23:40 Fear of rejection is awful!
Understanding the self loathing that narcs have makes me almost feel sorry for them. Almost. But they're so dangerous! It's like the story of the snake the woman found freezing in the cold. DON'T TOUCH!!!! It's still a snake!
Exactly...You can't afford to hug a Great White 🦈 even if it IS suffering in some way.Just stay safely up on the ⛵ & let it keep right on swimming to it's next potential prey.The moment prey begins to feel sorry for a predator...It's dinner😅.
Love these metaphors! Snakes and sharks!🚫 Yikes!!!!
🎯
I always think of my elderly mother as a crab. Soft squishy on the inside, relax my guard and then I'm in those sharp cutting pincers. My fam is always like just relax be yourself, each and every time I've let my guard down I've fallen into that trap. Death by a thousand nips!
@@bereal6590 My stepfather was like that! 4 years no contact now 👍
That's it! Not knowing Where I end and he begins😭
Love that comment from Jim about they will try and find where you have moved your buttons to .
Spot on!!! It is extremely hard being in a relationship with these people. I used to fall into a hole of depression and want to die because I didn't understand what was going on and why everything "was my fault". I have changed over the years. I educated myself of this type of personality disorder, and I see a therapist weekly. It takes a very strong mind to deal with these individuals.
I don't apologize, anymore. I don't explain myself, anymore. I do however try very hard not to laugh when he's throwing a fit! When i caught him cheating, tried to mend marriage, only to watch him refuse to help, to watch him watch our marriage "bleed out"! I mourned its death, & now i dont give a flying flip about him anymore.
Same here 👍 Its not worth saving the relationship .
Huzzah to truthful eyes
How fascinating, comfortable, enlightening, & inspirational to watch two compassionate, learned men discussing remaining "separate & distinct" in response to a Narcissist. Also, excellent role models. A pleasure, TY 🙏
Agree wholeheartedly! Thanks for sharing your regard for both of these learned and generous men.
I love that you included comfortable💖
My husband of 35 yrs beat me down emotionally so bad that I had a breakdown and my primary care doctor sent me to a psychiatrist who was convinced by my husband that I was BIpolar 2 and he treated me with powerful meds for almost 10 years. Finally this summer a very traumatic event opened my eyes to the fact my husband was a covert narcissist and I went to a therapist who sent me to a new psychiatrist who did an evaluation of me and said I scored very low in the are of the Bipolar disorder spectrum. After further visits with her she is convinced I am not bipolar but in fact I’ve been emotionally abused by my husband for 35 yrs, suffered the loss of my 15 yr old daughter, struggled with the chronic serious illnesses of 2 other children and all of it has taken a severe toll on me over the years. First thing she did was change my medication and the first thing I did was separate from my husband and consult with a lawyer to start the divorce process.
Living 65 years so far with a mother who is a malignant narcissist with many BPD boxes checked, she has wreaked havoc on this whole family. I am the one left to care for she and dad, both on hospice. And of course, the one she was the most abusive to. If I didn't have my Savior and people like you Dr Carter, no telling where I'd be. Dad is still her enabler at 90 and in terrible health. She only gets worse with age. She's 87 and completely healthy.
I like Carl June's analogy of the wolves-- Harness both your darkness and light.
Dr. C, I am so happy to see this because I follow him as well and I love his calm presence and delivery style as well. The two of you each embody the true essence of an excellent therapist.
Me too! I love Dr. Brillion's shorts as well. What a great match-up of two professionals.
I thank God for these men. Speaking my language. Thank you for this.
What comes to my mind when I think of aggressive and manipulative tactics is: my daughter-in-law. It took me 27 years to realize what she was doing to not only me, but to my family as well. Normal people don't realize what underlying tactics the narcissist is using to accomplish their need for superiority over everyone else. It was truly a nightmare every day to try to live amicably with her and, at the same time to protect myself from her anger and try to keep my sanity.
I totally get that (the rages, yes), the passive aggression silent treatments the quips and contempt and disdain. I found that the worst growing up right up until the last few years. Now I see it for what it is and don't bother with them, don't give them so many chances to put me in that position. However, putting a child in that position and continuing that lifelong where you end up in constant rumination! What did I do/say. What a relief not to be doing that any more! No more working out the rubbish, projected my way is a massive relief, clarity of thought☺☺. I spent my life working out their thoughts like a mind reader, no more!✌
I'm out of a long term narcissist relationship. I'm so glad I learned what was happening to me. It took me 4 years to leave fight or flight and I am never going back. One month and 2 days of feeling and doing what I want. He's stalking me and begging me to come back using manipulation and guilt. After 8 years of lies, gaslighting, projection, manipulation and guilt has worn me out. I hope I come back from this and lose the hatred in my heart.
You sure are good to us, Dr. C!
'Really enjoy these guest shoes 💜🐾
Thank you kindly!
I hope all is well for Jim Brillon. I'm really missing his notifications and uploads. I learn so much from him. I hope you can have him on again, Dr Carter.
My two favourite you tube advisors
Omg!!! Dr Carter, Jim and Gus!! What a great day!!
"other people have needs" .... spot on, Jim!
I really do need to go back and visit all of your past videos.
I have been married to my narcissist spouse for 25 years.
He is an overt narcissist.
I have a neighbor/friend who is a vulnerable narcissist.
Between these two people in my life, I sure need constructive coaching on how to deal with them and how not to get sucked into their head games (and their whole encompassing world of craziness).
Out of all the channels talking about narcissism on RUclips, your channel is my favorite!!!
I love your friendly, non pushy down to earth manner.
I love that you offer wonderful strategies and coping skills.
And I love that you give us ways to improve ourselves.
You show us how to grow beyond getting sucked into the narcissists baiting and help us to validate ourselves.
For many years in my marriage I got sucked into all his craziness!
I didn't know what I was dealing with.
He sucked my joy and energy dry every day!!!
Now I know what I am dealing with... both with my husband and my friend.
I really need to buckle down and learn your techniques, coping skills and self affirmation truths.
Thank you for posting all these videos for those of us in desperate need of them!
Simmering anger 100% ready to explode easily …”over the top reaction “ too! ❤thank you
In conflict it shows their emotional wellbeing, malignant narcist can be aggressive. Grandiosity makes them powerfull but they lash out in anger confronted with reality. Manipulator to put the blame elsewhere. Shame on mental healthcare and police who don't understand this.
And lawyers and judges and doctors
Happy to be team healthy member.
Thank you Mr Jim Brillon
I'm french too. Lol
I appreciate your saying how hard it has been, acknowledging my truths. I have found my healing resources . I have done the work. The longer I'm away from dysfunctional, toxic behaviors.
Being a hard worker, got off the road to hell, got my life back.
Breathing & smiling
Non reactive my power, knowledge getting wiser.
Thank you so much for having Jim Brillon on today, Dr. Les! I've been watching his shorts for months now. What a delight to enjoy the calming discussion between two loving and helpful therapists! Y'all are the best. Thanks again!
Thanks, I enjoyed my talk with him.
Agreed! Me too! Sharing mutual gratitude.
Great topic 🍿
Thank you Dr. Carter and Mr. Jim Brillon 🙏🏻
Our relationship therapist was completely snowed by my narcissistic ex. He came off like the long-suffering, noble victim, while all I could do was cry and ask how I needed to change. He lied numerous times to said therapist, which was deeply shocking to me. That behavior was what convinced me that something was badly wrong. He ended therapy permanently just as I was about to discuss his lying, framing me as manipulative and abusive. It was wild.
Just expressing having a different opinion causes them to pout or have a tantrum and storm off.
My ex husband had said at one point in marriage counselling that when he is wrong “it feels like a piece of him has died inside.”
My brother exactly! I never knew this was a thing with other people. My brother has always been controlling, manipulative, belittling, trouble with his mouth with everyone. He's always right in his mind. He's vengeful and wants to sue everyone. Threatens everyone, leaves nasty voice messages on phone. The list goes on. He's 57 now, I'm 55. He actually became worse the last 10 years or so. Man, to lie and make up stories that we know he's never done. It's like, we were there and you weren't. He lives in different world and always makes a woe is me thing. Try making people feel guilty when he put himself into his position. My husband and I helped him financially and let him live with us.
Yeah, he also did anger management. His ex wife sure dodged a bullet.
Thanks for this video.
Thank you for such great advice, best wishes 2024 to two wonderful gentlemen!
Same to you!
Thank you for illuminating how I mistook narcissism for substance abuse - defensiveness in the guise of accusation, seething anger, creating drama to deflect. Damn. It was so easy for me to believe that with help from Alanon I could detach, respond with love but take care of myself. But the narcissist eventually needed ME as a substance. And there’s no protection against that - at least for me. Now I thank God for all those tools I had and new ones I’ve learned here - which I use mainly on myself!
Thank you Dr. C. Dr. Brillon is a great expert guest . I appreciate how you both actually exemplified respect, civility and dignity in your interactions 👏👏👏
Glad you enjoyed it! It was my pleasure to have him on the podcast.
Thank you both so much for touching on the passive-aggressive narcissistic behaviors & them making you feel like you have to apologize & you don't even know what you're apologizing for😄👍🏻👍🏻!Years ago as a teen I had a "friend" with a lot of this covert 💩 starting to emerge from her & it was baffling...I only tried to apologize once & didn't even know what I did because she just suddenly discarded me and I never heard from her again.Looking back she may have not hoovered me because I DIDN'T repeatedly try to "chase" her by groveling on my knees.There were plenty of 🚩s but I didn't know this was a thing back then,I just knew it was something not good.
I am sharing this brilliant gem…“You are entitled to your opinion and distorted view of me”. Thank you! This will be very useful for my clients.
Excellent conversation. I admire both of you so much. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you a million times over! I grew up with parents, especially my father that would not allow me or my brother to show anger. My father had a hair-trigger for anger. We grew up afraid to show any emotion other than what might have been perceived as positive. My brother paid for that, as he is now, in my opinion, a covert narcissist. I, the sister, was the scapegoat. I am an empath. I don't know how we escaped our family of origin still breathing! At least God steered me in the right direction because now, I understand what happened and why we were so disfunctional as a small family of four.
I get quiet when I get overwhelmed. I hope that’s not the same as “the silent treatment.” !
You may be disassociating...It's a trauma response.Try reading articles &/or 👀 videos about it,it may help.
They get extremely angry when I stay calm through their raging and telling me exactly what they think I am and this can become physical beatings or and never knowing what will happen after they leave and come back.
My step mom got angry that I wasn’t falling for her narcissistic bullying of me anymore so ne summer when my dad went outta town for 3 months to work remotely? She picked me out the day he left! I was 12 it was 1982. No cell phone I had no clue how to reach my dad. It was mid June school was out. I spent that summer sleeping with my German shepherd in a abounded garage down the street and under big trees in various parks. They can and will do insanity level things even too kids!
Sorry spellcheck wasn’t on kicked me outta house. Actually locked me out. Had a paper route it provided enough for me and dog to eat. Actually L it was one the best summers of my life.
That sounds potentially like a narc that's slipped down the slope into sociopathy...These ones are REALLY nasty.They don't get better.If possible minimize contact or preferably go no-contact whenever you get the opportunity especially since physical harm appears to be involved,it can potentially escalate into something news-worthy.Please be careful.
Currently women are no longer considered property and it is illegal for a spouse to beat his wife. He can be jailed for that.
when confronted , the three, (two landlords), i have had the unpleasant time to deal with, revert to like dealing with a little child, instaed of a responsible form of dialogue hence issue blown out of proportion where the exchange becomes mentally exhausting...ground hog day scenario. *what i have learnt after discovering via videos like this, ... is i do have the upper hand as i now KNOW what i am dealing with., reminding myself this is a mental health disorder.
Having been raised in this type of family, then as my counselor pointed out. "You married your entire family (mother + 7 siblings), all wrapped into one person. 😮 ya for me. Now 20yrs on my own, listing to this wonderful podcast, I can now sit on the sideline while not being in the middle of the constance crazy making. Thank you for all you do🎉
Thank you both. I do believe that when a narcissist triggers you, it is next to impossible to stay calm. I personally want them to know that I'm not going to accept their comments or behaviors and I'm letting them know it in no uncertain terms. They take a turn for the worse when treating me that way in terms of my attitude toward them and my anger. No one can treat me that way and not expect the worst version of me. I want them to run for the hills and they do!
Love you guys. Can’t wait.
Their shame is toxic and negatively impacts all areas of their relationships.
I'd be throwing confetti everywhere & skipping as I went out the 🚪 to leave🥳🤣👍🏻.
In my 24 yr with a narc/addict I was never included in his “outside “
people. As a couple I felt her was ashamed???? Of me????
Now I understand he had to separate to project his grandiosity outside the marriage. Isolate me .
I as seeing now my intelligence & socialization with others was a threat to him.
He held me back in so many ways
An acquaintance just said to me
“ He could never hold a candle to you.”
Time reveals so much.
Enjoyed this Dr C . Another educational video TY
This discussion helped me immensely. That and months of therapy with experts in parental narcissistic abuse have helped a lot. Love your program. I choose team healthy and to talk constructively when there is an issue to resolve.
The narcissist I was around told me for no reason out of the blue aggressively, “ If you make a fool out out of me . I mean I don’t think you know what your dealing with !”
Glad you talked about that anger. I went for a ride earlier and actually felt angry about this narc but got it under control before I came back home
Great episode! The power of two great Doctors is very appreciated! Thank you. Subscribed ☀️
Awesome! Thank you!
Agreed! A super match-up! I value Dr. Jim's shorts too!!! Such generous sharing of expertise, really assisting the masses! Amen to that.
@@nancytwigg4631 Much needed, in a time where it is hard to find genuine help and when it is so much needed.
Anger to escape being answerable
That's on point! They're hopeless, no introspection and never wrong! Impossible to be close with them because you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop if you do or say the wrong thing, EVEN when it's their fault. They think they're perfect, just impossible as they're never answerable
Do as I say, not as I do
Wonderful guest!!! Bring him back and ask him more about techniques to leave toxic spouses?
Jim explains the narcissist to a Tee!
After my 4 years of research on this mental disorder, I can say with 100% confidence,
the ex husband tests positive!
Exactly right guys
He (adult son) attacked me (mum) he was given kind explanation = TRIGGERED
Explosive reaction Vile nasty long held hatred. Demanding I /we apologize fully without excuses
For what... Loving his adult kids that he pushed away with his OWN controlling manipulative nonsense.....
Breath gone NO contact
Wish I had Kown it was Narcissim years ago. Would have saved me of much smirking hurtful eggshells ❤️ thanks guys
What an amazing tone this man has. I bet he has a mindfulness practice. 🙏🏽🌹
Love both of these men; healers ❤
This was an excellent, interview and discussion about narcissism. It’s so nice hearing other peoples perspectives. Also, he’s out in my neck of the woods, so I will definitely be adding him to my resource list moving forward. Thanks to this wonderful discussion, thanks Doctor C; you are the best.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This guest, Jim Brillon is so on point - my sister who has picked up the narcisistic baton of our deceased father falsely accused me to the family attorney of harrassing her & that she was going to get a no contact order. After I informed the family attorney that if my sister obtained a no contact order under false pretenses - which is a crime (most states - 1st offense is a misdemeanor and 2nd offense is a felony) I would hire a criminal defense attorney and seek to sue her for malicious prosecution, emotional distress and defamation, I did not hear a peep from her. We have to stand up to those who have narcisissistic tendencies and bring them down a notch! I have spolen with an attorney and will get lawyered up against her! She is going to regret messing with me! I will make her life an absolute nightmare (from a legal angle!!) I have had enough!
So pleased it resonated!!
Exactly. Boundaries don’t work for narcissists. When I say “I don’t like the way you talk to me, then walk away”, then he yelled “yeah, too F bad, how about I never speak to you?” Then turn around he asked me to help him on stuff… cuz he’s hearing impaired.
Wonderful hearing from Jim Brillon, what a great therapist! love to see you both working together. Living in a very rural, very conservative state I feel like I want to move to Cali to be around more like minded people! maybe my task is to stay here and be the healthy, open-minded person as an example to others who are not. Thank you to your both - I feel inspired.
So pleased!
This is so difficult with an elderly parent. My only option is to go no contact but I'm not ready to do that to an 86 year old because that in itself carries a heavy psychological burden and it's traumatic. Could you maybe do a video specific about parents? I mean, I don't think there is a solution other than one day they are no longer around and then you can start to heal. But what a sad thought that is.
Hi Susan, please consider reading Lindsay C. Gibsons' book on Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents. I learned so much from both her books. The second one is full of strategies, particulary for when you have to interact with that elderly parent.
I send a warm hello and best wishes to you. Go Team Healthy! ✨️
Really excellent exchange between both of you sharing your experience. This helped me so much get a grasp on those loose ends. How do I get over my sense of remorse and loss at not having any resources or support to fall back on, not even my self as a child of a narcissist.
So, the "shame" the narcissist feels is due to their own grandiosity of themselves. And the retaliation, and rage is because "you" have the audacity to threaten that grandiosity.
It could be using a word they don't know, " insinuating" your work, joy, eyebrows are better than theirs.
This is what is behind the "competition" for any and all.. including victim hood.
Anything can and does triggers THEIR "shame", and
this is why it actually has nothing to do with you.
It's their perception of themselves as gods/goddesses and ALL is under their domain/narrative.
Their limited emotional development, and either-or thought process also doesn't allow for introspection.
Meaning they are not part of the "problem", the negative "issues" because they are all good.
And "therefore"( of course using their perspective of reasoning)
It's ALL you.
Your own boundaries say,
"My own narrative/ character
I am defining myself."
"WE" can be beneficial to each other in these areas...." A mutual relationship.
Like a Venn diagram.
Otherwise, it's best to say...
"See ya by" Tootles. Time to get outta Dodge. Run for the hills.
Then they start/ continue the intermittent/trama bonding.." Oh...Darling..."
Am I close Dr. Les?
Yes...Keep in mind that their grandiosity is actually a major effort to compensate for their hidden self-loathing. They dread having their humanity exposed. That's what I mean when I say they are shame based or fear based.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you for replying.
Their humanity? They self- loath due to being a human?Being born AS a human? As to what? A robot?
Is it being born...period? "Since you forced me to exist I will demand everything. Control everything.?"
So it's projected on to others?
The feelings of love and grieving l know they consider vulnerabilities.
Sad, it's s also awe, joy and beauty too.
There's something quite important, I think, regarding this point about anger. In my experience, these kinds of people have relentlessly demanded that I never be angry about my rights being violated, so much so that they'd explode into screaming tantrums accusing me of being angry for calmly saying, "I'm not okay with that".
This was supported by a demented moral notion of self-denial, really a slavery morality: it was openly regarded as morally right to always let other people walk all over me, and the greatest of moral wrongs to stand up for myself. Strange how that was a pervasive rule for me, not for them, and somehow my compliance with it would make them morally righteous.
Im at my wits end with all yhe losses and grief 😮😢
I understand. There seems to be so much of losses and grief. I'm healing, but it's very slow. I think I have to go slowly so I won't lose my mind or my core.
Thank you, Dr. Carter and Jim Brillion. Helpful information.
Your description of healthy anger and what it sounds like lets me know I haven't recognized it at the healthy stage. ❤
My Narc cannot stand to see me happy - I thank Dr C everyday for all that he has taught me. 💪🏻💫
I’m a believer in talking about any problems .. he was apparently the same. He would demoralise me intimidated me with so many questions that were unbelievably insulting.. but you react he storms out every time.. we were laughing and chatting minutes before he switched.. he would leave and tell me he didn’t like conflict and my reactions to his criticism was bizarre and not normal behaviour and he left because I was abusing him for defending myself.. he would be sorry sometimes but most of the time he was teaching me a lesson… well he was thank you very much.. he was teaching me that his behaviour is resembling a past relationship I got away from.. that’s exactly what I’ve done but he is not happy and his anger is surely coming out more and the messages feel like they are from a stranger.. he’s turned to emails because I’ve blocked him on everything else.. Out of one month I’ve only had 2 nights in which I didn’t receive these messages.. I have been strong enough to report him to the police because he has been hanging around my house in dark clothes even caught him at night outside my door as I was taking rubbish to my bin and he claims he had just got here .. yet my sensory light wasn’t on and he was at the wrong side of my door for him to have just walked down my driveway 😢
Excellent conversation and advice , especially about MINDFULNESS . 😇Thank you so much .
They take on the traits of their abusers rather than thinking i am never going to do that but then they can't go inward and introspect can they, luckily i can!❤😂🎉
Not once was I allowed to be angry so it turned into anxiety. If I was trying to express to my kids that things were serious, but anger makes you a terrible person. Since narc didn’t take care of the kids I was constantly undermined and I had to work on keeping my kids from being narcissistic.
Really liked the link between Shame and Contempt for Self. Awesome Thx.
You guys are the best! Great discussion as always
Thanks so much! I enjoyed my talk with Jim.
Doing our own work and trusting our own reality.✔️
Thank you Jim Brillon and Dr. CARTER
At 21:30 (ish).. "you both gotta own up to your part of the problem/issue".... That there is a pipe dream in this type of relationship. Only 1 of the "both" is able to do so. I've been stuck in the pipe dream way TO LONG and its so difficult to find my way out. I thank you for the videos and helpful information. I wish happiness and peace to all of you that have endured pain and suffering from a narcissist. Let's stay strong! We got this!