Warframe | Armor Is Better Than You Think | BUT WHY ?
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- Опубликовано: 28 дек 2023
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#Warframe #Armor #Defense 
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I think one tiny little detail you forgot to mention that's nice to know is: armor is only applied to damage done to health. It has no effect on shields or overguard.
It also applies to quick thinking (energy)
I had my qorvex 3k armor shield gate so yeah can confirm nothing on shield
@@vader817 I’ve been running both quick thinking and gladiator finesse
By god do i feel like a fucking juggernaut
Beginner players will often go all-in on shields, for the simple reason that shields go down first and passively regenerate while health has to be healed. But while that works for starting out, the fact that armour doesn't affect shields is the reason why at high levels you can't rely on shields at all beyond exploiting gating, because enemies will pop them in a couple of hits at most no matter how much you have.
@@ArcaneAzmadidamage reduction and innate 50% dr
This "But Why" series of yours is really good content, please continue.
Something to note about Ability armour stripping (which I know you didnt go into detail about, but I thought it was still worth mentioning) is that unlike status procs, most, if not all, ability strips stack additively, meaning two 50% strips will combine into a 100% strip, instead of becoming a 25% strip.
Again, all abilities vary, and there may be some cases where this isn't how it works, but for 95% of the direct ability based strips in the game, this is the case.
That is VERY important!
This also combos with Corrosive Projection, meaning with a single CP, you would only need an 82% armour strip. With 2 CPs, a 64%. 3 for a 46%. And a full squad of 4 for a 28%.
For some context, Hildryn's Pillage is a base 25% strip. You'd need 400% power strength to get a single cast to full strip normally. With a full squad of 4 CPs, you'd bring that down to only 112% strength.
If you wanna take this even further, each player can also have Coaction Drift equipped (which increases aura strength by 15%), which brings it down even further, to a 20.7% strip per CP, meaning a full squad of 4 boosted CPs would remove 82.8% armour, and Pillage can strip on a single cast at base strength, or even as low as 69% strength (nice)
Obviously, since ability strips are additive, you can settle for the much more achievable 200% on Pillage for a 50% strip and just cast it twice, but I thought it was a great example for how you can work these systems into your favour. Running CP on a frame with an armour strip might seem redundant at first glance, but on frames like Hildryn especially, it can mean saving a mod slot that you wouldve used on strength for something else, like Range to affect more enemies at once, or efficiency to cast more, or even just more survivability. 18% strip on Pillage is equivalent to about 72% strength, and thats not easy to come by.
Baruuk with ~97% damage reduction just chilling in the corner with sleep and disarm
Peace, man.
Yep. Zephyr also chills behind her «face-tank any ranged attacks on SP» shield, and Rhino is just... Rhino.
*me as a Chroma main* Can you all stop avoiding me and hit me already ?!?
Best form of survivability, wanting to die.
IMO, "% damage reduction" is a terrible way to convey how armour works, in any game. Because it always looks like additional armour is eventually just not worth it. But that's not true! Just look at "effective health" instead.
EffHealth = BaseHealth / DmgRed.
So, in our case:
EH = BH / (300 / (300 + Armour))
EH = BH * (300 + Armour) / 300
EH = BH * (1 + Armour/300)
To put that into words: Every 300 armour increase your effective health by your base health.
0 Armour = 100% Base Health
300 Armour = 200% Base Health
600 Armour = 300% Base Health
and so on.
Other way to express it... We have 92% damage reduction from armour before and 84% damage reduction from armour after. Seemingly small gain, right?
Wrong!
Because between taking 8% and 16% of total damage difference is actually 100% of taken damage.
Even between 90 and 92% difference is 20% of damage taken despite small tooltip difference.
So way of conveying is actually not bad. It is just people's failure to properly understand actual difference between these values, as you take reverse amount of damage (aka 100%-X)
if the enemy is doing 10k damage at high level its a one shot but if you reduce it so you only take 5% of that you can survive and heal with a single operator arcane.
True, but that does not convey armor ignoring or armor reduction very well.
@@DivingHawker Tenno Armor have no advantages or disadvantages. So no bonus damage against Tenno. Meaning, no need to convey that through tooltip.
Other stuff is status related and players should know about that.
Heat reduces armor by 50% in 2 seconds until heat expires, then restores gradually it in a few second timespan. = BAD
Slash ignores armor completely, at some point single proc will kill you = EVEN WORSE
Meaning for armor build you REALLY want to have complete status immunity. Or roll with 3 second invulnerability just to remove slash, if you won't die before that.
@@DimkaTsv or use rapid resilience, i got it by fusing mods and it is a must on my armor tank buids, to reduce status damage taken to 1 sec or less its amazing.
I think the problem with Armor is that for old players, it's not necessarily needed due to how diverse frame builds can get. For new players, they can rely on it TOO much for a single frame and don't experiment as a result. Inaros is a perfect example, as people just play him because he's conventionally tanky. But there are SO many different frames with unique ways of tanking that are way more fun to play. Examples are Nekros, Nova, Gara, hell, even frames like Garuda, Grendel and Lavos are boring in a sense but have more flow to their tankiness.
Hey, don't touch Lavos, he is uniquely one of the most universal frames out here.
Armour adaptation tanky = check
Doesn't care about energy (aka magnet procs don't mess with him) = check
Can apply crap ton of conventional status effects for condition overload at once = check
Have status immunity (conditional, sadly) = check
Abilities can scale way beyond common sense (i saw these 60 mil numbers from ultimate) = check
Can provide team utility with replaced ability = check
One of THE BEST railjack frames = check
But that piano gameplay at times... I remember 1.5 hours of infested survival with me on Lavos being main DPS. Yes, you can hold 2 keys to combine element instantly, but still...
(1+4) -> 4 -> (1) -> 3 -> (4) -> 1 -> (1) -> 3 -> (1+4) -> 4 [cycle]
Apply gas -> ult -> apply toxin + corrosion (from mod) -> spread with electricity -> apply heat -> use 1 with heat toxin and corrosion.
You can also add radiation proc somewhere in rotation, but i usually just forget about 3+4 combination existing.
I run arcane guardian and health conversion on Nekros and subsume silence to stop Eximus damage. Nekros can farm steel path survival solo like this till around level 500. I honestly dont have patience to go past 2 hrs on a single mission. Arcane ultimatum will make you tankier than guardian though.
Sadly, i remember times, where self damage was a thing. I used detonating kunais to proc night Equinox slow passive (which requires taking damage, and it stacks multiplicatively with other sources of cold including cold status grom Epitaph for example), so there was 80% cold and 75% damage reduction from enemies in range. I really loved that build and i really hated nullificators). Enemies were slow as turtles.
But DE butchered this strat when they made self-harm impossible.
In fun you mean mashing buttons every 30 seconds to be tanky while inaros have to do none of it.
@kazuviking You use hour abilities and that is fun indeed.
Armor does not have diminishing returns. This is a common misconception people have with percentages. Every 300 armor is effectively adding your health onto itself. 300 armor gives 50% DR so if you have 1,000 HP that becomes 2,000 Effective HP. 3,000 armor is 90.090909091% DR so with 1,000 HP that becomes 11,000 Effective HP. If you put this on a graph it would be linear which is not diminishing.
Damage Reduction abilities work the same way. Having one source of 90% DR is a 10x multiplier on your HP. Adding another source of 90% DR makes you go from 90% to 99%. People look at that as a 9% change and think it's worse returns but 99% DR is a 100x multiplier on your HP.
Wonderful video sorry for the nitpick. I just see this misinformation everywhere and always feel the need to point it out.
you literally proved it had diminshing returns in your example lol. as stated 300 armor and 1000hp is 2000ehp and 3000 armor with 1000hp is 11000ehp if armor scaled linearly it would have a set rate and increase at the same rate until you hit a hard cap or 100% damage reduction. you increased your armor 10x for a 5.5x ehp gain. mathematically it is impossible for armor to not have diminishing returns based on its equations for dr. the concept of diminishing returns is as you increase in x the change in y decreases. the more you gain the less you get per gain. it is further proven as to gain more armor you sacrifice other other stats that also change ehp. doubling your hp doubles your ehp (with the same armor value) this is a linear relationship and doesnt not have direct diminishing returns but indirect as you sacrifice other factors after a certain point. to get the scaling to not have diminishing returns you need to compare base values with their respective equations to the mods available to determine the optimum values to maximize ehp
TLDR: you are wrong and the statements you maid proved yourself wrong. mc nailed the armor section
@@smolneko550 No, OP is right, but you aren't necessarily wrong either. I think the thing you are misunderstanding is that the *effective health gained* from armor is not diminishing returns. You get a linear increase of effective health per point of armor. It may seem like the amount of % damage reduction you get per point of armor is less, and that is correct, but that is because % damage reduction and its effect on your effective HP is nonlinear.
@@smolneko550 This is a graph from the wiki on armor and relative effective health showing that the return is always the same; every 300 armor is adding your HP to itself.
static.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/35/REH.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141112174620
I am getting the same return each time I add 300 armor but there is an efficiency curve to be had with adding only armor because the 2nd factor is health since they multiply with each other to get your EHP.
I don't see how that can be diminishing returns. I am getting the same value each time I add 300 armor which is whatever my health value is.
@@smolneko550 Armor has linear scaling with ehp, not damage reduction. Every 3 armor grants you 1% ehp and this relation stays constant the higher you go.
i think it comes from a lack of understanding of percentages
People would assume half of 90% is 35%, when it in technicality is 80%
Meaning if your damage reduction is 90% (2700 armor) you’re taking half as much damage as someone with 80% damage reduction (1200 armor), who is taking half the damage of someone at 60% damage reduction (450 armor)
Not quite linear, but still
and yes, linear ehp, not damage reduction, but still, i think it needs to be said
You are one of the most easily understood and concise content creators for Warframe my dude. Your videos have been super helpful for me as I face more and more late game content 😄
Thanks for another great explanation video, even though i have 2k hours I still learn new things from your vids!
New sub here, thanks for going into depth with mechanics, stats, and formulas. Really enjoying "But why?" series. I like to see the context behind the builds!
Another minor advantage of armor is more powetstrength in the Circuit. Which can matter in high level cap circuit.
I am loving these "But Why" videos.....keep em coming
I really enjoy running the full umbral suite on saryn under the usual molt spam shield gate. I can save shieldgate for those huge burst hits like blitz eximus and boss enemy hits and facetank just about everything else even in steel path.
I was around when Valk's infinite warcry was a new thing, and stacking armor made you unkillable even after the infinite hysteria was hard nerfed. For awhile nothing in the normal game could really kill you, certainly nothing could one hit you. And if you health started getting low, pop ult for 5 seconds, heal up.
Steel Path changed things up a bit, but even there, good armor stacking can get you very far.
Armor is INSANE.
Mesa's ShatterSheild is another thing that's overlooked.
Lol i forgot pennant was a thing. Good video thank you for the information
For my experience, armor is useful up to lvl 500. Basically armor isn't good if you like doing long sessions but good for everything else.
It's actually Good Up To Level 2 000 for Regular Grunts (even if it only buys you a Few Seconds)....
It's usually only Minibosses that can Destroy you at Level 500 and if those Attacks are Telegraphed then you don't have to Worry About them.
And for said long sessions
Dip out then go back in, suddenly armor works again
yeah, this is why I usually suggest running like arcane reaper or guardian, because you usually get more armor from them than you could mod, at basically no cost (if you need the armor). so you can slot in more health, damage, or otherwise. Also, I do know that you can get lots of armor like you mentioned, but the diminishing returns are atrocious. so I usually say anything above like 600-700 is a waste of mod space, unless you have a reason to build for armor, like on Rhino, where you get really increased scaling based on how much armor you have on the Iron Skin.
I've played this game for 10 years and i still learned something new from this video. Great content.
The fashion frame is 🔥 I gotta get back into it
Great video as always MC! I have a small question non-related to the video: how did you format your numbers to be so short? and what does the "!!!" mean?? did they add ways to customize numbers in the UI?
That's the Enhanced Damage Numbers HUD update and each Exclamation Mark is +1 Crit Tier with the First One Being Tier 4.
This is awesome. Also I know I and a whole lot of other people would love it if DE just gave the Twin Grakatas The Brainstorm mod.
It would literally bump them up a few tiers and make us all happy
Brain storm for the Twin Graks and Arcane Velocity, oh baby. I'd join that petition
2:45 for recovery, i ran rejuvenation for a really long time on my grendel, because i forget to use nourish. Then i realised that at higher levels, like arbitrations, you end up with a bunch of health orbs lying around, and so i dropped it, and then grendel got reworked so k used his ball and nourish to heal, so i threw physique back on with arcane blessing for a max of 7k health and with gourmand (better adaptation because armour) i end up with a regular 3,500 armour
Also bypassing armour is the jack of all trades against the grineer. Viral slash builds are peak. Better than stripping armour via an ability, or modding two high damage weapons (corrosive and radiation)
5:26 whats your pennet and kullervo build, i would like to try it out?
Always loved being a tonky frame, always felt super nice to say no to incoming damage. Though dmg mitigation and ehp are systems that aren't really explained too well, they are super important! Thanks for the helpful video MC!
Adaptation is what really makes armor and even shields good it makes you able to do very silly things like a tank Voruna which has been very successful for me
Health conversion + Adaptation + Equilibrium and you could also opt for the shield gating mod
Use all three umbra mods insted of the shield gate though I do use pillage for shield gate
Thumbnail looks like Havel the rock, most fitting representation I can think of... in the dark souls games haha
There is also another property: with, say, enough armor for 90% damage reduction, and an ability that further reduces incoming damage by 90%, you get a whopping 99% (realistically somewhere around 98.2) damage reduction.
Hell yeah. Qorvex is almost like this. Dude have 2450 armor (89,1% damage reduction) with all 3 Umbal mods.
I would argue he's one of the best Frames to use hp regen archon shards and Arcane Grace on because he have such absurd defense.
He's a second Inaros... But more useful 😅
If DE add "ricochet" that scale with % of armor maybe that will refresh gameplay a bit. This may or may not affected by power strength.
8:37 huh, melee duplicate would go really well with this now that I think about it. Vastilok would remove 108 base armor if you can guarantee yellow crits.
Ooooooooh, I didnt even think about that !
You did forget to mention Amalgam Argonak Metal Augur, which adds armor removal to daggers, similar to shattering impact's effect.
Weird but incredibly niche armor trivia: when you equip blue armor archon shards to Yareli it also grants the armor to Merulina
Armor also stacks with a little known mechanic called jumping, that makes enemies have a higher forced miss rate. I also think Zephyr is underrated.
Hey man,I love your vids, they help out so much.
How about making a proposal set up for weapons to bring in Effervo to have good dmg vs angel and end boss
I mean proposal modding/explain what dmg needed for both, not for super speed runs just to not succ because for example all the modifier that apply after kill are not working etc
Since the event goes 2 more weeks and might come back it could be relevant longer and general fighting bosses is often different to killing masses of enemy
Would be great to hear you about it:)
that is a problem when using %, we use direct number for damage but % for defense, if they applied the same logic of base armor to base damage we could tweak armor more willing, so armor reduce damage directly from base damage, so every 1 armor would make a clear difference. This would also make elements more interesting, both player and mobs being more tanky, but unfortunately, one shooting tons of mobs is fun.
I'm in love with my 2k armor valks 😍
Is... Is that the Earthworm Jim font?
Wow I feel old.
So generally speaking based on chart at 3:14 , if I make all my weapon element in radiation and corrosive, I can easily kill most enemy in the game? I just start playing this game last month.
If possible can you show a graph between armor and health in the future. I don't know at what point having extra health is better than having extra armor.
What idle animation is that at the beginning of the video?
u forgot 'amalgum argonak' with daggers but i guess that one is lesser known but it strips armor with all dmg from daggers. which would include individual status procs
For armor striped the difference between 98% + bonus armor only start at lv 300+ and that is 100% armor striped better than 98% armor striped (basically 13 stack of corrosive vs 14 stack)
He's just standing there, MENCINGLY!!
Hell yea....i put ice armor on anything with survivability issues.....it also slows enemies too if they hit you......the cold damage is a nice bonus but doesn't get high enough....even with a ton of power strength
What is your subsume on your valkyr dear mr MCGamerCZ?
This whole armor topic was always too complicated for me 😂
All I know is the enemy dies, then I use the right armor. Since I play Revenant with 2 green shards, I no need to think of armor at all anymore 😎
i don't play anymore since my PC broken. but I still love your voice. so I watch your video
i know this isn't relative to the video, but do you know which companions can attack while ivara is in prowl mode? the helios decontructor is silent but still doesn't attack
The problem is in war frame a lot of us look at guides for how to build X frame and most of the people who do builds go on a out shield gating and rolling gaurd so a lot of people dont even both to test armor
I just got Lavos didn’t expect his nearly 800 base armor but now I have it up to 1800 I just cannot die from level 150+ enemies
I remember my big armor n hp prime valkyr with the lifesteal fists for when i just wanted to go monkey mode n never die
Look at that, Inaros mains get some recognition.
When is the new war quest gonna be available again I wanna. Get the sorroco for my Op so bad 😢😣
Do the same type of video with shields, pls.
6208 dragon armor goes funny
My favorite build in the game is harrow with arcane blessing and parasitic armor helminth and of course adaptation. He's a God at that point
I learned armour was a good stat by maining Grendal and now Grendal Prime, my setup is purely rank based which somehow adds other stats in by accident.
I don’t do steelpath as well I have better things to do so I discovered how effective this was when fighting archons as once I ate 4-5 enemies my gourmand augment would give me 2,000 armour and when stacked with the 1.5k~ base armour I realised that I had become boarderline unkillable to all but some odd instant kill attack Narmer enemies have.
Not sure if it is relevant to the discussion at all just wanted to leave something that I found interesting.
THANK YOU! gosh, yesterday i was stuck getting basicly yelled at by people that inaros is actually trash because apparently his massive ehp don't matter because only gating matter. Having someone take time to explain that armor is valid for a fair while is great
See Inaros has poor base armour values and no innate DR abilities or sources to stack so yeah he scales very poorly , he also relatively doesn’t that high eHP despite his massive health pool , he does need gating , as out of the three non shield frames , kullervo has two gates with overguard ( one when activated and one where it’s lost ) and nidus has straight up health gating via his passive , massive increase in survivability , not only that Nidus has built in DR separate from armour via his 3. And its damage mitigation which is effectively DR for all purposes
@@RossKyle95 Kullervo has two gates, but the ehp he gests from said overguard isn't that big, so it's constant babysitting, on top of making any investment in his health moot.
@@kerozseventiel4383 I know my point being you keep on top of it and building health is better served by other mods
As someone who makes Inaros builds for fun, Inaros _is_ trash, but that's exclusively because his abilities and passive are all incredibly lacklustre, with only Negation Swarm making them see any regular use.
That said if you try to take Inaros into Steel Path Circuit past like round 6 you're going to be having a bad time unless you kind of lean hard into melee to get overguard from decrees, and possibly the abuse of Health conversion + Lycath's Hunt, plus Arcane Grace + Arcane Guardian, plus Melee Fortification on the melee, so on and so forth. You could also consider minimum-range Gloom. Ultimately though Adaptation will have limited value since the best way to not get killed at those levels is to just not take the hit in the first place via being extremely mobile and via killing enemies before they get to attack, and Overguard-gating is the best way to fortify that playstyle.
@@oriondezagrats4228 He can last longer than that. Took Inaros to level 2000+ in Circuit even after cutting his health in half with a decree. Not saying it was good but I wasn't wasnt getting one shot Until after hitting 2000.
Shoutout to the new canticle mod that allows you to permastrip 5% armor by killing enemies touched by grimoire attacks, really nice for caster frames
Put health conversion and arcane guardian on any warframe and you will have around 90% plus mitigation. Shock absorbers will mitigate 20% physical damage and silence will prevent eximus from using abilities so subsumed on a warframe will reduce almost all damage you will take on any warframe.
Or get armor frame with umbral set, arcane guardian (hey, already 3500 armor Qorvex), then Adaptation (+90% to main damage types). Meaning total damage mitigation will be around 1-(1-0.95)(1-0.9) = 99.5%. Then you get status immunity, so no heat or slash proc bother you. Second arcane is optional either increase HP pool by 1200, or use Arcane Blessing to enable passive healing.
Then you setup Vulpaphyla with Martyr Symbiosis, Pack leader and Hunter Recovery (Loyal companion also an option to provide +75% multiplicative resistances and Vulpa for symbiosis within 10 second window in case you even manage to die, as Vulpa will attract all enemy agro for her ) . Meaning spores will heal you constantly, you will constantly provide Vulpa with heal and, more importantly, overguard, and as she loses it, there will be 0.5 second (sadly overguard will take damage even in duration). When martyr symbiosis procs you get 1 second of damage immunity and instant heal. But if Vulpa was invulnerable OR had overguard, she won't die. Instead you can collect another corpse and she will provide that second time. But you MUST keep her with overguard/ ALL THE TIME.
In theory it can make you invulnerable to damage. In practice, better keep it as reserve.
Tbh, i am thinking if keeping mod that turns Vulpaphyla into larvae even good nowadays. Spores from that form don't heal your frame. And you cannot reduce revival time manually if you wanted. On other hand it becomes set and forget type of thing.
@@DimkaTsv blessing*
@@iForeverImmature Thanks, corrected.
Health Conversion by Itself is Enough....
Infact any Situation where you can Achieve a Minimum of 500 Armor from a Single Source... That's the Minimum Requirement for Health Tanking Builds.
If you start Stacking Multiple Sources of Armor then your Builds begin to Suffer... Unless you're doing a Highest Armor Meme.
@@lookalike4805 im saying in order to get nearly 0% damage on any warframe this is what is required. The only damage should be the 5% take while arcane guardian is activating. If you use ultimatum this isn't even a factor.
Woah, I didn't realise exploiting weaknesses also ignored that amount of armour :o
Steel Path runs, archon shard hunts, i just use my mesa, need a good damage build though, keep your distance with her and you're fine.
I have an entire build hased around Valky Prime and making her have 2700 armor through mods and shards alone. 90%DR that never turns off. Paired it with Quick Thinking, Rage, Hunter's Adrenaline, and Molt Reconstruct. Subsumed Fire Blast onto her and I can run around spamming Fire Blast and am funtionally immortal. Especially if I tweak it to add shield gating.
dont gotta worry bout no armor if all the enemies are dead before they can hit me
I really hope armor or enemy damage gets reworked in the future, because I want to be able to health tank level cap enemies lol
I was really hoping honestly that the topaz shard would allow that hell maybe damage for the amount of health you have but blast is sadly a terrible element to try and kill with and for 300 health (or 450 if tau) its not worth it cause of the cap however I would have loved to go for limitless health
@@akoslazar9005 I was really happy to see that in the preview they're adding infinite health stacking mechanic into the game, and tying it with one of the worst damage types - impact. It could've been a great way to make impact useful in hyper health tanking builds. But what they did on release is terrible imo. Swapping impact for blast is fine, maybe even better, since you can add elemental mods to make blast to do more dmg, while physical damage mods are weak, but I do not understand why add a cap to how much hp you can get, and a REALLY low cap. 300 hp? Really? Its barely worth using over regular azure shards. Sure they give only 150 hp, but you get this 150 hp right here and now, without needing to invest into blast killing shenanigans. Probably the main and only thing that disappointed me in this update.
@@sirbonely6664 impact would have been pretty good in my opinion since there is mods like hemorrage aka when you do impact there is a 35% chance for it to be slash even akin to hunters munitions
@@akoslazar9005 I'm not sure if slash procs from impact damage would count towards topaz shards hp stacking, since you know, its not really an "impact damage kill", but I guess its warframe so anything could work. Either way, any "bad" damage type would work, giving it a place in the meta. I think if they want to make them worth using, but don't want players to stack thousands of health too fast, they could've made it slow down, so like after getting 300 hp, it would only give max hp every 3 kills, so you'll still get fast max hp boost at the first few minutes of the mission, but still have a potential to go big if you stay for long.
@@sirbonely6664 i mean its one health or 1.5 you are probably better off with arcane blessing sadly i mean i dont think it would stack too fast since its pretty specific unlike for example molt augment kill 250 enemies to get 60% ability strenght pretty straight forward but this one requires 300 blast kills for a pretty not so worth it health boost what could make it good if it was similar to the secondary crit chance one where the enemy only needs to be affected by it then you can use like Voruna or even a companion to set effect the enemy
I learned to play without armor and with minimum additional survivability a long time ago. Now I just dont see mysefl swaping back to armor or any health tanking as the way I play vs lvl 100 and 9k is no different.
Right just as well learn to shield gate now rather than later. Ive noticed that cc abilities are more useful at higher levels to. Like grouping abilities with enough range on esnare and you only have to worry about eximus casie they cant have abilities used them.
Coming here in hopes that i find a justification for my valkyr prime with one 1000 armor still getting one shoted pre level 60. Love the vids in any case
I never knew tenno armor was even a machine in the game thank you for explaining this in detail ❤
TL;DR About building Elemental Damage :
Use Radiation + Critical If you are not going to remove Armor
Use Viral / Heat + Status If you are going to remove Armor
Only use Faction Mods when you make a Set-Up for a specific Mission
Depends on mission and faction types of armour composition , because if you aren’t removing armour you’d usually go slash on most enemies , rad would probs be the way to go with murmur or straight corrosive + blast or heat , there is two types of armour present i change faction mods like muscle memory so doesn’t phase me
Viral is almost always going to be better on most enemies whether you strip their armor or not.
@@midivilplanet as a status proc yes , as an actual dmg type its here and there in terms of effectiveness , viral is usually primed via another source in kit anyways
@@aaronglawson8706 primed via other parts of kit lmao aka primers nourish is but one of many forms to apply viral
@@RossKyle95 Are you pulling out a Kuva Nukor to prime viral every time you want to kill something? lol
Imagine a tenno from a few years ago stumbling across this video.
Valkyr and her roar makes it better.
0:55 I just want to clarify because I can see why on paper it looks like armor has diminishing returns BUT that's not true. The chart is a little misleading. A better way to look at it is through Effective Health. As you can see on the wiki, Effective Health scales linearly with armor. Effective Health is a lot more intuitive and easier to understand than Damage Reduction because it's tied to what the player experiences(aka player survivability).
Per the wiki: " Nominal Health means "health in name", referring to the Health points in your screen's upper right corner.
Effective Health is your "health in effect", reflecting a "truer" measurement of survivability."
For example:
The difference in survivability(effective health) between 50% DR and 60% DR is +100% of nominative health(2x vs 3x)
The difference in survivability(effective health) between 89% DR and 90% DR is +100% of nominative health(9x vs 10x). Every 300 armor gives +100% of your nominal health, meaning armor does not have diminishing returns in terms of survivabilty. The chart of DR vs armor looks like it has diminishing returns but that's not what the player experiences in gameplay. DR is only important in the calculation for effective health, which is more accurate for gameplay.
Hope this helps some people in understanding armor and damage reduction. I made the same assumption on reddit, only to be corrected by someone who knows a lot more math than me. I thought putting more armor on Valkyr would be useless because it only made a 2% DR difference but in reality it made more of a difference than I thought!
The diminish comes from mod used so I guess it’s more an opportunity cost vs actual dimished returns eh
This is correct and I was conflicted if I should address it in the video, but decided against it. There are no diminishing returns on effective health (Every 300 points of armor you get, gives you 100% effective health) but there are on % damage reduction. You need exponentiation more armor to get the same % DR. I felt that the explanation was complicated enough and did not want to make it worse with effective health explanation. I had a whole section in the video where I explained it and scrapped it in the end.
That Doesn't Change the Fact that Tenno Armor Scales Poorly....
You would better off by Stacking Health Instead (Confirmed this with my 2000HP Ivara versus my 2000 Armor Ivara) 👀
@@MCGamerCZ Thank you! As I was typing it and got more involved I almost deleted it haha. I was trying to not over complicate it since it's not that intuitive. Hopefully others found my comment helpful! The section you deleted might make for a good video!
Been watching for like 3 years now and you're the only warframe youtuber I watch. Love your vids. Hope you had a good holiday and happy new year!
I think they should give Inaros overguard in scarab swarm
I feel armor needs to change from damage reduction, to damage health. What I mean is if you take a hit, the higher youyr armor, the less health that can be taken at a time, regardless of damage. for example, you have 10k health, enemy hits you for 2k, your armor is low, the maximum damage you can take from a single attack is 9k. You take the full 2k. If you have high armor, at 10k, your max damage being able to be taken from a single damage source is 2k. Enemy hits for 5k, but max they can do to you due to your armor is 2k.
Obviously would need a much more in depth look, but I feel it would help with a lot of the older tank frames unable to tank in end game content. Maybe as an additional system that really doesnt get use except for the high end cases? Idk, just feel armor frames are a bit too susceptible in late game farming without too massive investment.
Why as tennos we must learn to balance. Fair amount of armor and health or shield path. Be either mods or arcanes.
Umbra dragon + red archon shards (+hp regen) please review
I just wish that elemental weaknesses were a bit more viable. Even using the wrong type of element on exposed flesh with all the armor stripped is usually way more productive, and viral/slash is virtually always the optimal strategy, even if, but _especially_ if you strip armor.
Experimenting in the simulacrum, against high level steel path enemies, you're forced to abandon all the "logical" choices for elements and builds and just go for broken meta builds that aren't intuitive.
For example, with the new murmur units, I look at the Hollow Vein, the big snake enemy: It's listed as highly vulnerable to radiation, and it doesn't even have armor to strip, so I build a weapon with high radiation damage and crit, and do almost no damage to it. Instead, I build a phantasma that happens to do electrical damage, and hose it down: the huge amount of electrical procs melt it like butter.
It makes it frustrating, especially for less experienced players: all the information they're given tells them to build a certain way, only for that way to be absolutely wrong and useless. It makes people reliant on cookie cutter builds, without understanding why those builds work.
On some level armor is not working because of damage player takes its just insta overmatch of everything
Wait. Hold up. Shattering impact strips base armor? Before the level and such multipliers? Holy fucking shit. I've got thousands of hours in this game and I didn't know that.
I remember back 2016 when armor was still scaling way higher
I've never been into using warframe's warframes more than I have been into its weaponry, so I naturally gravitated towards tanks that do it all (Nezha my beloved) and understood the role that armor plays into it is far greater than even people with 2k+ hours seem to realize.
"Oh but Nezha already has 90% DR on his 3! That's more than enough! Stacking more damage reduction on top of that is pointless!"
Is it? Or do you believe that because the percentage doesn't actually demonstrate how much it does? See, the thing with DR is that the more percent DR you have, the more a single percent matters. I find it easier to think of damage reduction as to how many more hits I can survive rather than how much eHP I have.
Example:
Say I am playing a Nezha that has Warding Halo on (for the purposes of this scenario, just imagine this cast has infinite health, that is to say, it won't run out) with 0 armor that can tank 3 hits from a bombard, if I were to take my current Nezha Prime's build armor (1417) into account, that would be a 82.5% DR on top of Warding Halo, totaling to 98.25% DR.
While the difference in percentage points doesn't seem that big, I will actually be able to tank 5 times as many hits as with just Warding Halo on, which means that instead of only being able to tank 3 hits, I would be able to tank 15.
But don't let me stop you from enjoying the game the way you do, if you like using shield gating or rolling guard, power to you! Just keep in mind that armor isn't as bad as you think it is.
Kullervo is tanky but he QUICKLY becomes squishy
I'm 4/5 out of blue tau forged shard for Lavos health tank build, I still need 1 more AND max out all umbra i wont stop no one can stop me
Player since 2013. My Umbral Nyx has 100% defense stripping and has 78% damage reduction due to armor
oh my god a warframe video that is aimed at normal players and not sweaty bois? i love it
A Mesa with umbral set and having shatter shield up for 95% DR can actually tank 2 shots from lvl 3000 enemies in Durivi circuit (granted theyre not using a shotgun) obviously not optimal but quite amusing
[Laughs in Oberon]
I thank you very much for affirming my choices as one of the 7 inaros players besides yourself
I rarely ever see people pull inaros for new content. Its typically wukongs, wisps or sayrns on average.
bombard and heavy gunner: we level 5000 we should be unkillable with our armor value
me pulls out glaive prime with a cd and cc riven: are you sure about that?
Tanky warframes or bulky warframes that can actually do stuff with their armor should have more than 300 base armor since shields have a base 50% damage reduction
funny i can get to 900 lvl areas in spiral and still live happily with armor builds sure you need a bit extra but i realy dont know what some players want going 5 hours plus into missions sounds hell of boring to me and it gives you just more resources wich you have plenty off i can even go into the highest areas with hyldrin going strong with 8000 shields plus jsut recovering them instandly threw pillage but i guess that is also invureablity exploit to be fair the shields go down if they even go down and you are immortal for up to 4 seconds with her passive that doubles the invunrability time either your pillage reactivates or your normal recovery kicks in so you can pillage fast to get full to overshields wich resets your invunrability window immortal without much stress at all but i bearly get even all my shields drained gloom as subsum ability with enouth power and enemies can basicaly not touch you and exima are dead anyway with the right weapons befor they can be a problem never understood the whole rolling guard hype and never needed it with 2000 hours now clocking in
The most amount of ehp I’ve gotten on 1 frame was 700k on chroma
Honestly, I've been playing this game for 9-10 years at this point anf still don't know the ins and outs of certain mechanics. All I knew about armor was "hurr hurr funny number value go up, make rhino tank" and that was about it
tfw my citrine is sitting at 1200armor... and i also got her 2 if i really need it
To Take less DMG. Thanks for watching
This is why i stand by my 99% strip hildryn
As a Nidus player, a ton of HP regen shards, and a couple armour mods, make me one of the tankiest motherfuckers out there, immortal until level 250, and a bitch to kill til 400
Then there's citrine, with a good amount of power strength she can get up to 90% DMG reduction.
Yet still gets melted at higher levels. I didnt want to shield gate but i learned to sheild gate because you have no choice.i cast her 4 whenever my sheilds break boom second shield gate. It actually make the damge rotation more active. On paper she should be unkillable but in practice after level 500 she will die.
Armor is fine but why hasn't DE utilized Evasion tp a greater degree? IMO tanks should be able to take hits and squishies shpuld have the reflexes to avoid getting hit.
The problem is Evasion as it currently exists is capped below 100%. This means that, eventually, a bullet will hit you through your evasion, and you will simply die, because evasion only really helps as part of a system that isn't in danger of getting one-shot.