Yeah it's overall very impressive and should get better with flaws getting ironed out with time as tends to happen. Being able to swap between the to is a big win for versatility.
@TerraWare Im going to try Transformer injection on Doom Eternal RT, it was already a crisp game but curious how good it can be boosted, I hear good things about Red Dead 2 DLSS4 already.
@@SKHYJINX Nice! I'm just going to wait for the Nvidia App I think but for the rest of the day I'm playing Kingdom Come Deliverance. Want to finish it before the sequel drops.
@@TerraWare I heard DF say the NVAPP is going to use a Whitelist,.. so it might still require manual injection for some untested titles. Just an FYI I haven't had any Nvidia person confirm it yet.
I sometimes forget I'm using DLSS performance mode and not Quality/DLAA 😭 I swapped the DLSS dll from Cyberpunk to other games and the difference in clarity is massive. 😲 Btw, you have to force Preset J to turn on Transformer model. The guide how to do it is on Reddit. This is necessary as NVIDIA didn't launch DLSS 4 officially, yet. Edit2: RDR2 looks ridiculous in 4K/DLSS performance. It never looked this good before 😭
@ yeah thats what i noticed that also its crystal clear in performance mode now which is crazy also the new dlss transformer model is available now on dlss swapper someone want an easy change of the version
SSAO not working well with the new transformer model, thats why the vegatation flickers with it, if you disable the ao in the settings you can see it. I hope they can fix it soon.
I see. Thanks for pointing out that its SSAO causing a conflict. Makes sense it doesn't happen when PT is enabled. EDIT* I assume 6:46 is what you are talking about?
Thank you! I though this was because Dlss4 is still raw, but i knew it was some issue with AO but never tried to turn it off) This should be everywhere
@@ElmorQuistin I don’t play wirh any path tracing and in native and DLSS (CNN/Transformer) its really horrible for me as well. I just found out a few days ago that AO is causing this, so I have turned it off. I am also wondering why that is and why not more people talk about it?
The improved upscaling was the main part of their announcement that I was excited about. TAA looks terrible and usually DLSS is an option in most games these days so I usually just put DLSS on quality because it does pretty much does the same thing but give me extra performance and removes the aggressive blur, so to see such a technology get noticeably better makes me incredibly excited.
I've really been looking forward to checking out the recently updated DLSS 4 Transformer model but these take a bit of time to put together. The improvements made are really impressive but it's not always an improvement. Let me know what you think about the DLSS4 Transformer model below. Thanks for watching and CHEERS!
In the example with the fish, it's really subjective what you find best. DLSS removes some flickering, but the fish is a bit less detailed and the scrolling billboards in the background look way worse. (compared to native)
@@nossy232323 Yeah sure it comes down to taste I guess. The flickering on the fish and leaves on the trees which is where my focus went too is way too distracting for me. I don't like flicker but ultimately it always comes down to trade-offs and preference of course.
the use of transformer model is a gamchanger and amd have to adopt it or risk being 7000 series once again.... i was a bit concerned on the performance and vram costs for use of transform model but then again i remembered for vram usage reduction a distilled model could be used to get the same result with even lesser vram and as for compute requirements, we all know that ai models get faster and more efficient on not yearly but weekly basis.... and all the flaws that was pointed out in this video can be easily by countered with transformers 2.0 with more contextual and long term memory which can be used to absolutely erase the line betweenn native and upscaled image from there on the race for truely realtime pathtraced game will begin by aggressive upscaling, using neural shaders, neural textures, neural radiance caches etc etc
looks quite good but nvidia could optimize it for a bit better, but I think dlss performance tranformer will look much better at few scenes than dlss balanced cnn or even dlss quality cnn.
2:29 Yes, mate. The transformer model also applies to Ray Reconstruction and the older Frame Gen on all RTX cards. Frame generation on the RTX 4000 series is enhanced; Ray Reconstruction is enhanced; DLSS is enhanced.
@@patépété The only other RTX card I have is a 3080Ti and I may do a separate video looking at multiple games on that. I do agree though, looking at the cost on 2000 series would be interesting.
6:26 It's great that dlss fixes anti-aliasing flickering. But it seems to soften the image too much. It looks very clear because of the blurring of the scrolling red text on the building in the background. Of course, there may be blurring in distant objects. It may provide similar clarity to native in close-up graphics. But it's still more important than anything else for a high FPS gaming experience. And it would be stupid not to use dlss technology when I have it. I hope they develop the transformer model even more in the future.
The text yeah becomes softer but everything else is an improvement. As someone that doest like flickering the improvements far outweigh some of the downsides. Of course the type of game, implementation and personal preference plays a role.
Is a game changer. Cyberpunk with path tracing on a 4090 looks and feels so much better now. I can put DLSS on performance because it looks like the old DLSS Quality or even better, and I get 100 fps average, which is crazy good. Good job, Nvidia. Haters will hate no matter what. I have friends who have a 4090 and still hate upscaling, AI, and ray tracing in general.
@@HDRGamingHub it makes no sense to hate upscaling and ai. Technology keeps moving forward. You can only do so much with native resolution rendering. It's like complaining about having jet engines on planes and saying that plane manufacturers should just make the propellor engines faster. Things change and become more efficient as time goes on. If there is a way to bypass sheer power for higher amount of frames and more efficient use of energy, then we need to embrace it.
@@IanJenn356094 I understand, but they are purists when it comes to native resolution... and they claim that all these new AI technologies appear smudgy and poor quality, merely serving as gimmicks.
@@HDRGamingHub If I pay 2000€ for a GPU I would also hate looking at artifacts and stuff all day. I already don’t like it on a 300€ GPU but there I can justify it more. The transformer model is the best things that happened to DLSS yet though!
09:00 the grass flickering has been an issue for two years now, you obviously haven't played the game this whole time to notice this! The cause is Ambient occlusion, which stop being an issue when replaced by both normal Ray tracing or Path tracing when enabled regardless of which you like to use. Nobody has done anything to fix this since Liberty DLC came out!
Its actually insane how this issue is still present, are there not enough people playing this game with normal rasterised graphics or are people just blind?
Oh I've played the game, have 256 hours total with the most recent playthrough being after Phantom Liberty drop but I played it with PT on. Transformer model making it worse was something I felt worth pointing out.
The new DLSS Performance mode actually looks like it'll be amazing, I always felt like a scrub enabling performance mode but from looking at it now - the performance may be the king of optimization vs visual.
Best comparison I’ve seen yet. Glad NVIDIA is innovating, but it makes me nervous how far AMD is behind as no one can keep them honest. Crazy that DLSS outperforms native in quality in some instances. Almost doesn’t make sense.
I hear ya. Looking forward to AMD's announcement and how FSR 4 does in other games. It looks promising but Nvidia seems to keep pulling ahead more and more with these features. I think of some of the professional leakers who I think are full of crap, kept saying a while back that Nvidia is done with gaming and they're just going to focus on AI. It's what they'd heard apparently, yet more and more features keep coming out, sponsored games and improvements. As a tech head it's very exciting but I want to see AMD do well in the graphics space too. Hope their marketing doesn't fumble the ball.
Who needs a 50 series card lmao. Im sitting comfy with my 40 series. The official drivers are supposed to bring the slight performance loss back but that might be unsubstantiated.
dlss 4 transformer is crazy 4K resolution still looks 4k with boosted FPS at DLSS Performance. I tested it on Control, Star Wars Outlaw, LAD: Ishin! & Cyberpunk 2077. I'm using Nvidia Inspector to activate the transformer shit in all games with DLSS & yes use Latest DLSS Driver
I tested it last night on my 3090, cyberpunk it’s so much cleaner a huge difference on performance with clarity and image quality @4k performance, and ultra performance 🔥🔥🔥✅
Great video man! Admittedly before adding pathtracing i did notice a little shimmer in the city on the palm trees but didnt look like a typical AA shimmer, more of a shadow lighting something? Im not technical enough to know what that would be..
Native rendering was already dead years ago when devs introduced mandatory temporal antialiasing. Temporal AA even at 100% res scale shouldn't be considered native. DLSS4 is truly impressive but devs still need be careful around it, way too many effects are relying on a specific expected output resolution and going too low res with DLSS4 can break those effects. And despite being this impressive you still need a decent amount of base resolution, 1080p > 4K looks incredible but 720p > 1440p isn't that good.
Over reliance on TAA can be an issue for sure. This was extremely evident with FF7 Rebirth actually where even 4K 100% res scale, TAA and TAAU looks noticeably inferior to DLSS, there's also quite a bit of finer detail loss too that's there with DLSS. Not sure what can be done at this point as even DLAA itself can sometimes exhibit some ghosting in some games depending on the implementation.
I tested DLSS Transformer in four games: Hellblade 2, Alan Wake 2, RDR2, and God of War: Ragnarok. In all of them, DLSS Transformer in Performance mode was either matching or surpassing the Quality mode of CNN. (1440p)
I put these dlls in my witcher 3 installation. I am still stuck as a 1080p laptop gamer unfortunately, but DLSS Quality is noticeably more clear, with less visual artifacts than on the 3.5.0 dll I was previously on. I really look forward to more improvements to this model. I can't imagine how impressive this must be on a 4K display
Putting the DLSS DLL files in the correct folder alone doesn't do anything. You also need to force Preset J in nvidia profile inspector (which also requires an extra mod file to be in the same folder as profile inspector), otherwise you're just placeboing yourself.
Brilliant video! Gives me some reassurance that DLSS 4 is a lot better on performance mode compared to CNN Also yeah I agree Native TAA is quickly dying out Rebirth and games like Balders gate 3 I noticed it's worse than DLSS AA I don't see any reason to use Native anymore tbh & I was very against upscaling before I got my XTX Now i'm getting a 4090, so I think that tells you how impressed i've been by DLSS in general There were quite a few factors as to why I made this decision, some obvious ones but I would find it very hard now to go back to not using DLSS upscaling I'm hoping FSR 4 does a very similar job to DLSS because it would be nice to have an end to the upscaling wars between Nvidia and AMD, both deserve good upscalers & it's very important in PC gaming today Like you say Consoles are way behind PC and PSSR doesn't impress me that much tbh Keep up the good work man, I really think you're good at speaking actually and breaking things down for us, you really do great work
Haven't seen many RUclipsrs talking about the foliage on Cyberpunk with the transformer model. The old one definitely looks better, but the new Transformer model looks so much sharper all around that i don't even mind the flickering
It appears to be some type of conflict with the SSAO in the game. They'll probably patch it. I think most looked at it with RT/PT enabled which I mainly focused on that as well because of RR.
For a slower paced game, even with a 1st person perspective like Indian Jones, FG from 60 is great ! From there, what you gain in smoothness is worth the slight latency hit ! For a more dynamic game I would suggest aiming for a higher starting point like 80fps. DLSS is really about smoothing the transition between frames. It will look like what the FPS counter indicates but it won’t feel like it ! You could use it from something like 40fps, latency will feel like 30 but it’ll look way smoother ! The issue in this context is that these FG frame will be displayed for longer on your screen which will increase the chance of seeing artefacts ! Just try it out in real conditions and if it feels good and looks good to you then just use it !
I hear ya although I don't look at FG at all in this video. It's all about the differences in image quality with the new transformer model for DLSS and ray reconstruction.
Upscaled images look blurried and smoothed over, even in your fish hologram example. Besides other visual artifacts, that's a continuing problem with upscaling; it just doesn't look as sharp as native rendering (that is, native without TAA smears). Whether native rendering is worth the performance trade-off is another story, but everytime I hear DLSS is a straight win over the native image I come out thinking otherwise.
Its not better 100%, there are some things that can look better at native but overall at least for me I think its a win, it also reconstructs lost detail. Now this will depend on the game too and implementation and even the type of game.
Wow.. I haven't seen anyone do a comparison of DLSS CNN vs DLSS Transformer model. Great job on being the very first ever video like this... AMAZING!!!! How did you know to do such a unique comparison? Brilliant just brilliant.
What interests me the most are performance differences between both models on older or weaker GPUs. Techpowerup's review of 5090 shows that 4090 after switching to Transformer looses a little more fps, so my question is how about other cards? On one hand availability on all RTX cards and better looking model theoretically allows to use higher performing presets than before with keeping kinda the same image quality, so prolonges usability of these cards. On the other it's worth investigating :D
@@TerraWare And it's pretty nice canditate, kinda middle ground between old and new. If strong Ampere further increases the lost fps percent from going to Transformer, we could assume that it only gets worse with weaker or older cards. So somwhere there's the point where low fps uplift forces to use worse than before DLSS preset, resulting in not seeing much of a difference fps and image quality wise.
Yeah that foliage flickering issue really stuck out to me when I was running the benchmark sequence to compare performance between the old and new models. It's too much of a drawback to warrant using, though like you I'd be playing the game with PT and ray reconstruction so thankfully it's not an issue there. I do worry that it might crop up in other games that don't support RR though. However...Nvidia did say the transformer models would be initially released as a beta, so I'm sure they're aware of edge cases like this and are working on fixing it.
They'll fix it. It appears to be some type of conflict with the game's SSAO which is not used with PT on, it's why its kinda flying under the radar. Most reviewers are focusing on PT because of RR.
Windows and transparent objects seems to have issues as well in transformer model, it will need fixing but otherwise dlss performance cnn vs dlss performance transformer looks like 1440p vs 4k. Difference is huge. I can finally use dlss quality 1440 with custom resolution instead of dldsr performance in almost every game because it looked better, with better performance as well.
I'd like to grab a founders edition mainly for the channel but not sure I want to spend any more than that. I wouldn't be selling my 4090 to offset the cost either as I'd like to keep it for content so not sure if I'm being honest.
@@TerraWare It is a lot of money. I'm more worried about the power connector. I have a feeling in a few months we'll see loads of cards with melted connectors.
Native rendering is dead? What do you mean? It all comes down to AA implementation (which in this case DLSS handles AA better than bad in-game TAA implementation), not the input resolution.
It was a bit sensational with the point being DLSS is so good I personally rarely play at native res. You could run DLSS at native (DLAA) at get a technically better looking picture but when even performance looks so good I'd rather take it. It's obviously my opinion based of the fact I rarely play at native res and with DLSS getting even better there's less reason to play at native (for me)
Once Nvidia can train their Ai to observe player input and draw an Ai frame based on that while at the same time looking at the buffered frame, (and i'm sure Nvidia will figure this out) They will actually have 4x real frames and no additional input lag. This is the direction gaming is going and i'm glad. Nobody wants space heaters or having to wire a dedicated circuit to their PC to play their favorite games.
I looked at DLSS4 in Cyberpunk myself and its not even close to native. When you are out in the badlands you encounter more visual glitches with DLSS4 than a cat has hairs... its horrible. But as we dont get any raw performance anymore, you gotta live with it.
Yes definitely, especially with path tracing but it does currently result into flickering when not using RT PT with foliage as shown at 6:50, which seems to be a conflict with SSAO. So as of right now I'd probably recommend CNN for non PT gameplay.
I actually liked the flickering on the fish, made it look like a projection or digital representation. 2nd, unfortunately since the consumer isn't very bright in general, keep in mind, even DLSS on the CNN model had many versions. You can pick the worst one, with the worst ghosting, and no doubt I remember it with Cyberpunk 1.6. From DLSS 3.7.0+ that I used for Cyberpunk 2.0+ I recall it being pretty rare to see ghosting. Also the updated RR, FG from 3.7.0 was pretty good. The new model is great though, but the gap is a bit hyperbolic and theatrical (unless comparing the worst of DLSS CNN to the current best of DLSS Transformer) Another example is Jedi Survivor. The FG dll it ships with gives alot of ghosting, but if you replaced the FG dll with something around 1.5, you would have zero ghosting and the same performance.
Hard disagree. The latest version of CNN on Cyberpunk with PT and RR on had tons of NPC ghosting in indirectly lit areas and a very oily AI look, specially to straight lines. Both have been significantly improved. Same thing with iniecting the DLL on other games, even the best DLSS presets with the CNN model lacked significantly in image clarity compared to Transformer. I disagree on the native take, as CP2077 has a terrible TAA implementation, but compared to CNN the difference is night and day.
I have been usuing DLSS since version 2.0 constantly if a game supported it.. Mostly on Quality setting, because as like shown in this video it actually improves graphics in most cases while you gain performance as well, so a win win situation.. No reason to stick to native rendering anymore ever since.. This new DLSS4 Transformer upscaling only improves on that by enabling us to use lower settings to gain even more performance.. I can even run Cyberpunk 2077 with pathtracing on now on my "old" RTX 3080 using the ultra-performance DLSS setting (my native is 3840x1600) and get playable 60 fps, which I thought would never be possible and is amazing.. With the old DLSS that was not possible as lower than balanced setting to get enough fps produced to much smearing etc so was not worth it..
It really depende on base res. You are using a very high resolution display, so even DLSS Quality is a fairly high res. Using my 4K TV, 4K DLSS Q looked pretty good. But with my 1440p monitor, DLSS 2/3/3.5 simply looked too soft and blurry. Ray reconstruction looked smeary and “painty”. It honestly wasn’t usable IMO. New transformer model really changed my perspective. DLSS Balanced at 1440p looks pretty decent now, it’s insane. Not without its faults though, but a way better compromise than what we had before.
Man your audio are very quiet in pretty much every videos I have seen. Boost it a little during editing for RUclips. This video is -12.9dB wicis really low.
The -12dB in the debug info isn't peak volume. It's a rough average in LUFS I believe. -12dB is a pretty good RMS/LUFS level to aim for when mastering audio in general with a decent amount of dynamic headroom. Besides youtube normalizes the audio so your peak volume isn't too important.
I can confirm the foliage flicker is really bad with the transformer model. I tested this with other foliage heavy games such as avatar and dying light 2, and the foliage flicker in those games is extremely bad, to the point its really unplayable and I have to revert back to the CNN model for any game really that has any decent amount of foliage in it. its terrible.
Funny, how this just proves that if rt can look like these examples in native rendering, that it's not "real lighting", "how it should be", "other crap fed to people starting with 2000 series". This, from inception, has been sold under this pretense and the amount of people willing to die on the hill that they let themselves be draggen on, is astounding. Later on when pt was introduced, suddenly rt became "old news" and practially bs, because a new toy was to be sold again. But how could this be? it was supposed to be bee's knees. How could someone be better than "real"? I guess, mental gymnastics would suggest "realer" ;). It's all fine to a point, until marketing is involved...
Dying light 2 become insanely Sharper n Crispy……AC Mirage blurry is gone too. 30th will be even better when the driver match all of it “perfectly”, it’s only the half way yet
I hated using upscaler ingames but i am forced too , cuz the games bad optimizations , i was using dlsstweak to be able to change the scaling of dlss to 77% , but now this new dlss man it look amazing
6:27 While the fish hologram and tree are better with DLSS, the text on the screens on the building in the background loses a lot of information comparing to native. Of course, it may be preferable to have better world objects than clearer random texts in the scenery in most games, except maybe on flight simulators...
I really hate how horribly hardware unboxed has been covering this stuff. They seem to be the only blind testers in the world. Makes me not trust them at all anymore. Im sry but you cant be the only ones out of the bunch that doesnt talk about this stuff. Feels like they are doing there job half assed
They found positive video ratings when being more critical about Nvidia and are heavily gaslighting and underselling the good things about Raytracing and dlss. I’ve totally lost faith in them as an information source
I try to watch multiple opinions from people and ultimately come to my own conclusions. Two sets of eyes is better than one as the saying goes, I think.
Agreed you need to watch everybody. I think that steve and also hardware unboxed have lost there way. Just purely here for views now. Dont care who or what they ruin. @TerraWare
Hardware unboxed is the most honest channel you can find. They were the one who was trying to warn gamers about RT and Nvidia's promises if you buy 2060 etc. Nvidia misleading everyone. Have 0 respect to them. Fk liers.
Because it highlights the weaknesses more. That's kind of the point of the video. I never use performance in my videos normally but it looks pretty good this time.
The new TF model is absolutely stunning in other games. Rdr2 doesnt look like a blurry mess anymore at 1440p. The quality mode looks like im DOWNSCALING from 4k to 1440p, thats how amazing it is.
There will be some aspects that stand out and depending on the implementation, but I'll take the DLSS over native in this game, any day. The overall benefits outweigh overall possible shortcoming but its up to you what you wanna do in the end.
@ what abot that bottle what disappears in the benchmark ? or in alan wake 2 there dlss 4 makes text dissapear on a board ............ no thx .... i paly native with low latency and no ghosting or bullshit ........ i have standards ......
@ yeah ...... last time ppl said OH DLSS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN NATIVE ....... and now nvidia come out said we fixed the ghosting and issues what dlss 3 had ........ and idiots are back saying the same shit OH DLSS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN NATIVE until DLSS 5 comes and nvidia will say fixed the ghosting and issues what dlss 4 had ...... brinless idiots ..... moron ... sheeps ....... eating up this nonsense ....... go ahed turn on RT and MFG4 and dlss and eat up that slop that jensen is shitting on you for 2000$ ...... absolute pathecit that ppl dont have standards .........
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
The aliasing in reflections being massively cleaned up is a big win, I hope Nvidia can fix the Transformer flaws quickly this year.
Yeah it's overall very impressive and should get better with flaws getting ironed out with time as tends to happen.
Being able to swap between the to is a big win for versatility.
@TerraWare Im going to try Transformer injection on Doom Eternal RT, it was already a crisp game but curious how good it can be boosted, I hear good things about Red Dead 2 DLSS4 already.
@@SKHYJINX Nice! I'm just going to wait for the Nvidia App I think but for the rest of the day I'm playing Kingdom Come Deliverance. Want to finish it before the sequel drops.
@@TerraWare I heard DF say the NVAPP is going to use a Whitelist,.. so it might still require manual injection for some untested titles. Just an FYI I haven't had any Nvidia person confirm it yet.
@@SKHYJINX Ah ok. I guess that makes sense. Guess we'll see.
I sometimes forget I'm using DLSS performance mode and not Quality/DLAA 😭 I swapped the DLSS dll from Cyberpunk to other games and the difference in clarity is massive. 😲
Btw, you have to force Preset J to turn on Transformer model. The guide how to do it is on Reddit. This is necessary as NVIDIA didn't launch DLSS 4 officially, yet.
Edit2: RDR2 looks ridiculous in 4K/DLSS performance. It never looked this good before 😭
The transformer model is peak
It looks just like native if not slightly better
its gonna launch at the 30th of january with the new driver for the 50 cards so i think ill just wait until next week
even in 1440P DLSS Performance on RDR2 it's still LOOK WTF!!!! Crispy clear
@ yeah thats what i noticed that also its crystal clear in performance mode now which is crazy also the new dlss transformer model is available now on dlss swapper someone want an easy change of the version
Because of T A A. 🤷♀🥴
SSAO not working well with the new transformer model, thats why the vegatation flickers with it, if you disable the ao in the settings you can see it. I hope they can fix it soon.
I see. Thanks for pointing out that its SSAO causing a conflict. Makes sense it doesn't happen when PT is enabled.
EDIT* I assume 6:46 is what you are talking about?
Yeap exactly
Thank you! I though this was because Dlss4 is still raw, but i knew it was some issue with AO but never tried to turn it off) This should be everywhere
@@joda1696 I thought my gpu broke lmao. The flickering issue I experience is far worse than that even on 4K DLAA Transformer. Couldn't really solve it
@@ElmorQuistin I don’t play wirh any path tracing and in native and DLSS (CNN/Transformer) its really horrible for me as well. I just found out a few days ago that AO is causing this, so I have turned it off. I am also wondering why that is and why not more people talk about it?
The improved upscaling was the main part of their announcement that I was excited about. TAA looks terrible and usually DLSS is an option in most games these days so I usually just put DLSS on quality because it does pretty much does the same thing but give me extra performance and removes the aggressive blur, so to see such a technology get noticeably better makes me incredibly excited.
I've really been looking forward to checking out the recently updated DLSS 4 Transformer model but these take a bit of time to put together. The improvements made are really impressive but it's not always an improvement. Let me know what you think about the DLSS4 Transformer model below. Thanks for watching and CHEERS!
In the example with the fish, it's really subjective what you find best. DLSS removes some flickering, but the fish is a bit less detailed and the scrolling billboards in the background look way worse. (compared to native)
@@nossy232323 Yeah sure it comes down to taste I guess. The flickering on the fish and leaves on the trees which is where my focus went too is way too distracting for me. I don't like flicker but ultimately it always comes down to trade-offs and preference of course.
the use of transformer model is a gamchanger and amd have to adopt it or risk being 7000 series once again.... i was a bit concerned on the performance and vram costs for use of transform model but then again i remembered for vram usage reduction a distilled model could be used to get the same result with even lesser vram and as for compute requirements, we all know that ai models get faster and more efficient on not yearly but weekly basis.... and all the flaws that was pointed out in this video can be easily by countered with transformers 2.0 with more contextual and long term memory which can be used to absolutely erase the line betweenn native and upscaled image from there on the race for truely realtime pathtraced game will begin by aggressive upscaling, using neural shaders, neural textures, neural radiance caches etc etc
looks quite good but nvidia could optimize it for a bit better, but I think dlss performance tranformer will look much better at few scenes than dlss balanced cnn or even dlss quality cnn.
I dont agree with example with fish, because native looks more detailed and billboards look better on native
2:29 Yes, mate. The transformer model also applies to Ray Reconstruction and the older Frame Gen on all RTX cards. Frame generation on the RTX 4000 series is enhanced; Ray Reconstruction is enhanced; DLSS is enhanced.
I thought it did but since I wasn't 100% sure figured I'd mention it.
Thanks for zooming on details. Great review.
Thank you. Trying to combat YT's compression. Looking at the raw file VS RUclips there is some loss with the finer detail.
@@TerraWare If you have different generations available it would interesting to see the FPS cost of the new model from the 20X0 series to the new one.
@@patépété The only other RTX card I have is a 3080Ti and I may do a separate video looking at multiple games on that. I do agree though, looking at the cost on 2000 series would be interesting.
6:26 It's great that dlss fixes anti-aliasing flickering. But it seems to soften the image too much. It looks very clear because of the blurring of the scrolling red text on the building in the background. Of course, there may be blurring in distant objects. It may provide similar clarity to native in close-up graphics. But it's still more important than anything else for a high FPS gaming experience. And it would be stupid not to use dlss technology when I have it. I hope they develop the transformer model even more in the future.
The text yeah becomes softer but everything else is an improvement. As someone that doest like flickering the improvements far outweigh some of the downsides. Of course the type of game, implementation and personal preference plays a role.
Is the blurring due to dlss or taa?
Is a game changer. Cyberpunk with path tracing on a 4090 looks and feels so much better now. I can put DLSS on performance because it looks like the old DLSS Quality or even better, and I get 100 fps average, which is crazy good. Good job, Nvidia. Haters will hate no matter what. I have friends who have a 4090 and still hate upscaling, AI, and ray tracing in general.
@@HDRGamingHub it makes no sense to hate upscaling and ai. Technology keeps moving forward.
You can only do so much with native resolution rendering. It's like complaining about having jet engines on planes and saying that plane manufacturers should just make the propellor engines faster.
Things change and become more efficient as time goes on. If there is a way to bypass sheer power for higher amount of frames and more efficient use of energy, then we need to embrace it.
@@IanJenn356094 doesnt need to make sense its personal opinion
@@IanJenn356094 I understand, but they are purists when it comes to native resolution... and they claim that all these new AI technologies appear smudgy and poor quality, merely serving as gimmicks.
@@HDRGamingHub If I pay 2000€ for a GPU I would also hate looking at artifacts and stuff all day. I already don’t like it on a 300€ GPU but there I can justify it more. The transformer model is the best things that happened to DLSS yet though!
09:00 the grass flickering has been an issue for two years now, you obviously haven't played the game this whole time to notice this! The cause is Ambient occlusion, which stop being an issue when replaced by both normal Ray tracing or Path tracing when enabled regardless of which you like to use. Nobody has done anything to fix this since Liberty DLC came out!
Its actually insane how this issue is still present, are there not enough people playing this game with normal rasterised graphics or are people just blind?
@@breathe_3asy I say both xD
Oh I've played the game, have 256 hours total with the most recent playthrough being after Phantom Liberty drop but I played it with PT on. Transformer model making it worse was something I felt worth pointing out.
The new DLSS Performance mode actually looks like it'll be amazing, I always felt like a scrub enabling performance mode but from looking at it now - the performance may be the king of optimization vs visual.
Best comparison I’ve seen yet. Glad NVIDIA is innovating, but it makes me nervous how far AMD is behind as no one can keep them honest. Crazy that DLSS outperforms native in quality in some instances. Almost doesn’t make sense.
I hear ya. Looking forward to AMD's announcement and how FSR 4 does in other games. It looks promising but Nvidia seems to keep pulling ahead more and more with these features. I think of some of the professional leakers who I think are full of crap, kept saying a while back that Nvidia is done with gaming and they're just going to focus on AI. It's what they'd heard apparently, yet more and more features keep coming out, sponsored games and improvements. As a tech head it's very exciting but I want to see AMD do well in the graphics space too. Hope their marketing doesn't fumble the ball.
Another fantastic video! Thank you 👍
Ur channel its very underatted but will get there where it need to be im pretty sure of that ^^
Thanks I appreciate it. I'm thankful for all you guys watching and giving feedback :)
@@TerraWare Sure anytime u deserve it !
Who needs a 50 series card lmao. Im sitting comfy with my 40 series.
The official drivers are supposed to bring the slight performance loss back but that might be unsubstantiated.
people who work with AI and are using up 24gb ram and have sold their 4090 for 2000.00 6 months ago :)
As long as what you have works for you than you don't need it lol.
@@EITCHS87 if you work with ai they are contracted, sent for 600 GBP lol...
dlss 4 transformer is crazy 4K resolution still looks 4k with boosted FPS at DLSS Performance. I tested it on Control, Star Wars Outlaw, LAD: Ishin! & Cyberpunk 2077. I'm using Nvidia Inspector to activate the transformer shit in all games with DLSS & yes use Latest DLSS Driver
I tested it last night on my 3090, cyberpunk it’s so much cleaner a huge difference on performance with clarity and image quality @4k performance, and ultra performance 🔥🔥🔥✅
Great video man!
Admittedly before adding pathtracing i did notice a little shimmer in the city on the palm trees but didnt look like a typical AA shimmer, more of a shadow lighting something?
Im not technical enough to know what that would be..
You mean with PT disabled and Transformer model DLSS? It's probably that conflict with SSAO I cover at 6:50
Native rendering was already dead years ago when devs introduced mandatory temporal antialiasing. Temporal AA even at 100% res scale shouldn't be considered native. DLSS4 is truly impressive but devs still need be careful around it, way too many effects are relying on a specific expected output resolution and going too low res with DLSS4 can break those effects. And despite being this impressive you still need a decent amount of base resolution, 1080p > 4K looks incredible but 720p > 1440p isn't that good.
How about 1080p > 1440p?
Over reliance on TAA can be an issue for sure. This was extremely evident with FF7 Rebirth actually where even 4K 100% res scale, TAA and TAAU looks noticeably inferior to DLSS, there's also quite a bit of finer detail loss too that's there with DLSS.
Not sure what can be done at this point as even DLAA itself can sometimes exhibit some ghosting in some games depending on the implementation.
@@nossy232323if fhd > 4k is fine then of course
I tested DLSS Transformer in four games: Hellblade 2, Alan Wake 2, RDR2, and God of War: Ragnarok. In all of them, DLSS Transformer in Performance mode was either matching or surpassing the Quality mode of CNN.
(1440p)
I put these dlls in my witcher 3 installation. I am still stuck as a 1080p laptop gamer unfortunately, but DLSS Quality is noticeably more clear, with less visual artifacts than on the 3.5.0 dll I was previously on. I really look forward to more improvements to this model. I can't imagine how impressive this must be on a 4K display
Putting the DLSS DLL files in the correct folder alone doesn't do anything. You also need to force Preset J in nvidia profile inspector (which also requires an extra mod file to be in the same folder as profile inspector), otherwise you're just placeboing yourself.
Great Review bro
Brilliant video!
Gives me some reassurance that DLSS 4 is a lot better on performance mode compared to CNN
Also yeah I agree Native TAA is quickly dying out
Rebirth and games like Balders gate 3 I noticed it's worse than DLSS AA
I don't see any reason to use Native anymore tbh & I was very against upscaling before I got my XTX
Now i'm getting a 4090, so I think that tells you how impressed i've been by DLSS in general
There were quite a few factors as to why I made this decision, some obvious ones but I would find it very hard now to go back to not using DLSS upscaling
I'm hoping FSR 4 does a very similar job to DLSS because it would be nice to have an end to the upscaling wars between Nvidia and AMD, both deserve good upscalers & it's very important in PC gaming today
Like you say Consoles are way behind PC and PSSR doesn't impress me that much tbh
Keep up the good work man, I really think you're good at speaking actually and breaking things down for us, you really do great work
Haven't seen many RUclipsrs talking about the foliage on Cyberpunk with the transformer model. The old one definitely looks better, but the new Transformer model looks so much sharper all around that i don't even mind the flickering
It appears to be some type of conflict with the SSAO in the game. They'll probably patch it. I think most looked at it with RT/PT enabled which I mainly focused on that as well because of RR.
5:32 text in background looks a lot sharper at native than at dlss quality transformer. looks slightly ghosted too unfortunately when compared to 5:02
For a slower paced game, even with a 1st person perspective like Indian Jones, FG from 60 is great ! From there, what you gain in smoothness is worth the slight latency hit ! For a more dynamic game I would suggest aiming for a higher starting point like 80fps. DLSS is really about smoothing the transition between frames. It will look like what the FPS counter indicates but it won’t feel like it ! You could use it from something like 40fps, latency will feel like 30 but it’ll look way smoother ! The issue in this context is that these FG frame will be displayed for longer on your screen which will increase the chance of seeing artefacts ! Just try it out in real conditions and if it feels good and looks good to you then just use it !
I hear ya although I don't look at FG at all in this video. It's all about the differences in image quality with the new transformer model for DLSS and ray reconstruction.
Upscaled images look blurried and smoothed over, even in your fish hologram example. Besides other visual artifacts, that's a continuing problem with upscaling; it just doesn't look as sharp as native rendering (that is, native without TAA smears). Whether native rendering is worth the performance trade-off is another story, but everytime I hear DLSS is a straight win over the native image I come out thinking otherwise.
Its not better 100%, there are some things that can look better at native but overall at least for me I think its a win, it also reconstructs lost detail.
Now this will depend on the game too and implementation and even the type of game.
That's great DLSS gets rid of some aliasing. Too bad it also gets rid of texture detail and softens the entire image. Native is better.
Wow.. I haven't seen anyone do a comparison of DLSS CNN vs DLSS Transformer model. Great job on being the very first ever video like this... AMAZING!!!! How did you know to do such a unique comparison? Brilliant just brilliant.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. There's been a few others looking at it as well adding their own take.
What interests me the most are performance differences between both models on older or weaker GPUs. Techpowerup's review of 5090 shows that 4090 after switching to Transformer looses a little more fps, so my question is how about other cards? On one hand availability on all RTX cards and better looking model theoretically allows to use higher performing presets than before with keeping kinda the same image quality, so prolonges usability of these cards. On the other it's worth investigating :D
Right. I only have a 3080Ti for other RTX cards.
@@TerraWare And it's pretty nice canditate, kinda middle ground between old and new. If strong Ampere further increases the lost fps percent from going to Transformer, we could assume that it only gets worse with weaker or older cards. So somwhere there's the point where low fps uplift forces to use worse than before DLSS preset, resulting in not seeing much of a difference fps and image quality wise.
Yeah that foliage flickering issue really stuck out to me when I was running the benchmark sequence to compare performance between the old and new models. It's too much of a drawback to warrant using, though like you I'd be playing the game with PT and ray reconstruction so thankfully it's not an issue there. I do worry that it might crop up in other games that don't support RR though.
However...Nvidia did say the transformer models would be initially released as a beta, so I'm sure they're aware of edge cases like this and are working on fixing it.
They'll fix it. It appears to be some type of conflict with the game's SSAO which is not used with PT on, it's why its kinda flying under the radar. Most reviewers are focusing on PT because of RR.
Windows and transparent objects seems to have issues as well in transformer model, it will need fixing but otherwise dlss performance cnn vs dlss performance transformer looks like 1440p vs 4k. Difference is huge. I can finally use dlss quality 1440 with custom resolution instead of dldsr performance in almost every game because it looked better, with better performance as well.
It's a nice improvement for sure with a few issues that will inevitably get ironed out with time.
Will you be purchasing a 5090?
I'd like to grab a founders edition mainly for the channel but not sure I want to spend any more than that. I wouldn't be selling my 4090 to offset the cost either as I'd like to keep it for content so not sure if I'm being honest.
@@TerraWare It is a lot of money. I'm more worried about the power connector. I have a feeling in a few months we'll see loads of cards with melted connectors.
@Tech2C Oh believe me, I'm worried about the connector too. I lost one 4090 to it.
If DLSS 4 makes native game resolutions better than it's a win for RTX gpu buyers. It's not fake anymore. Better means better 🎉
Native rendering is dead? What do you mean? It all comes down to AA implementation (which in this case DLSS handles AA better than bad in-game TAA implementation), not the input resolution.
It was a bit sensational with the point being DLSS is so good I personally rarely play at native res. You could run DLSS at native (DLAA) at get a technically better looking picture but when even performance looks so good I'd rather take it.
It's obviously my opinion based of the fact I rarely play at native res and with DLSS getting even better there's less reason to play at native (for me)
Once Nvidia can train their Ai to observe player input and draw an Ai frame based on that while at the same time looking at the buffered frame, (and i'm sure Nvidia will figure this out) They will actually have 4x real frames and no additional input lag.
This is the direction gaming is going and i'm glad. Nobody wants space heaters or having to wire a dedicated circuit to their PC to play their favorite games.
I looked at DLSS4 in Cyberpunk myself and its not even close to native. When you are out in the badlands you encounter more visual glitches with DLSS4 than a cat has hairs... its horrible. But as we dont get any raw performance anymore, you gotta live with it.
Does it much better in motion clarity than cnn ?
Yes definitely, especially with path tracing but it does currently result into flickering when not using RT PT with foliage as shown at 6:50, which seems to be a conflict with SSAO. So as of right now I'd probably recommend CNN for non PT gameplay.
i always use dlss balanced but maybe i will consider dlss perfomance with this new transformer model
I actually liked the flickering on the fish, made it look like a projection or digital representation. 2nd, unfortunately since the consumer isn't very bright in general, keep in mind, even DLSS on the CNN model had many versions. You can pick the worst one, with the worst ghosting, and no doubt I remember it with Cyberpunk 1.6. From DLSS 3.7.0+ that I used for Cyberpunk 2.0+ I recall it being pretty rare to see ghosting. Also the updated RR, FG from 3.7.0 was pretty good. The new model is great though, but the gap is a bit hyperbolic and theatrical (unless comparing the worst of DLSS CNN to the current best of DLSS Transformer)
Another example is Jedi Survivor. The FG dll it ships with gives alot of ghosting, but if you replaced the FG dll with something around 1.5, you would have zero ghosting and the same performance.
Hard disagree. The latest version of CNN on Cyberpunk with PT and RR on had tons of NPC ghosting in indirectly lit areas and a very oily AI look, specially to straight lines. Both have been significantly improved.
Same thing with iniecting the DLL on other games, even the best DLSS presets with the CNN model lacked significantly in image clarity compared to Transformer.
I disagree on the native take, as CP2077 has a terrible TAA implementation, but compared to CNN the difference is night and day.
Test DLSS in Quality mode using CNN vs. the performance of DLSS Transformer (at 1440p and 4K).
I have been usuing DLSS since version 2.0 constantly if a game supported it.. Mostly on Quality setting, because as like shown in this video it actually improves graphics in most cases while you gain performance as well, so a win win situation.. No reason to stick to native rendering anymore ever since.. This new DLSS4 Transformer upscaling only improves on that by enabling us to use lower settings to gain even more performance.. I can even run Cyberpunk 2077 with pathtracing on now on my "old" RTX 3080 using the ultra-performance DLSS setting (my native is 3840x1600) and get playable 60 fps, which I thought would never be possible and is amazing.. With the old DLSS that was not possible as lower than balanced setting to get enough fps produced to much smearing etc so was not worth it..
It really depende on base res. You are using a very high resolution display, so even DLSS Quality is a fairly high res. Using my 4K TV, 4K DLSS Q looked pretty good.
But with my 1440p monitor, DLSS 2/3/3.5 simply looked too soft and blurry. Ray reconstruction looked smeary and “painty”. It honestly wasn’t usable IMO.
New transformer model really changed my perspective. DLSS Balanced at 1440p looks pretty decent now, it’s insane.
Not without its faults though, but a way better compromise than what we had before.
Man your audio are very quiet in pretty much every videos I have seen. Boost it a little during editing for RUclips. This video is -12.9dB wicis really low.
Alright
The -12dB in the debug info isn't peak volume. It's a rough average in LUFS I believe. -12dB is a pretty good RMS/LUFS level to aim for when mastering audio in general with a decent amount of dynamic headroom. Besides youtube normalizes the audio so your peak volume isn't too important.
💪🏻💪🏻
When you are using transformer mode just turn on "ray reconstruction" and the flickering goes away
You mean all your fps goes away or?
I will never be happy with frame gen and upscalers, lower grafix, resolution, artifacting and higher latency. -its a no thanks for me.
Please, turn off the lights and close the door behind ya!
Transformer model needs ray reconstruction for best results
I can confirm the foliage flicker is really bad with the transformer model. I tested this with other foliage heavy games such as avatar and dying light 2, and the foliage flicker in those games is extremely bad, to the point its really unplayable and I have to revert back to the CNN model for any game really that has any decent amount of foliage in it. its terrible.
Funny, how this just proves that if rt can look like these examples in native rendering, that it's not "real lighting", "how it should be", "other crap fed to people starting with 2000 series". This, from inception, has been sold under this pretense and the amount of people willing to die on the hill that they let themselves be draggen on, is astounding. Later on when pt was introduced, suddenly rt became "old news" and practially bs, because a new toy was to be sold again. But how could this be? it was supposed to be bee's knees. How could someone be better than "real"? I guess, mental gymnastics would suggest "realer" ;). It's all fine to a point, until marketing is involved...
Native is not dead (DLAA is the best) TAA is dead.
@@fantikmshe didn't say anything wrong. DLAA is native res.
@it is.
@@fantikms DLAA is native. It just uses DLSS at 100% resolution for anti aliasing. It's in the name. Deep Learning Anti Aliasing
That’s still using dlss not native.
So basically DLSS is black magic at this point.
I still see lot of problems with the new one but from what i here its a beta and nvidia will release new on at end month.
Transparency effects are way better
Dying light 2 become insanely Sharper n Crispy……AC Mirage blurry is gone too. 30th will be even better when the driver match all of it “perfectly”, it’s only the half way yet
I hated using upscaler ingames but i am forced too , cuz the games bad optimizations , i was using dlsstweak to be able to change the scaling of dlss to 77% , but now this new dlss man it look amazing
Yeah it works pretty well. Normally balanced was my minimum but performance can look pretty good too.
What a nice win, too bad devs will use it as an excuse to be lazier about the performance
Some, probably.
what about 2k!!
6:27 While the fish hologram and tree are better with DLSS, the text on the screens on the building in the background loses a lot of information comparing to native. Of course, it may be preferable to have better world objects than clearer random texts in the scenery in most games, except maybe on flight simulators...
I really hate how horribly hardware unboxed has been covering this stuff. They seem to be the only blind testers in the world. Makes me not trust them at all anymore. Im sry but you cant be the only ones out of the bunch that doesnt talk about this stuff. Feels like they are doing there job half assed
They found positive video ratings when being more critical about Nvidia and are heavily gaslighting and underselling the good things about Raytracing and dlss.
I’ve totally lost faith in them as an information source
I try to watch multiple opinions from people and ultimately come to my own conclusions. Two sets of eyes is better than one as the saying goes, I think.
Agreed you need to watch everybody. I think that steve and also hardware unboxed have lost there way. Just purely here for views now. Dont care who or what they ruin. @TerraWare
Agreed man its sad@@lawyerlawyer1215
Hardware unboxed is the most honest channel you can find. They were the one who was trying to warn gamers about RT and Nvidia's promises if you buy 2060 etc.
Nvidia misleading everyone. Have 0 respect to them. Fk liers.
why you people always use dlss perfomance? why not balanced or quality?
Performance and Quality are pretty much the same and you'll get more fps and low latency
Because it highlights the weaknesses more. That's kind of the point of the video. I never use performance in my videos normally but it looks pretty good this time.
The new TF model is absolutely stunning in other games. Rdr2 doesnt look like a blurry mess anymore at 1440p. The quality mode looks like im DOWNSCALING from 4k to 1440p, thats how amazing it is.
I've heard good things about RDR2 from a few people now. Nice.
6:33 that red text in the back rly shows that native is still the best ......
There will be some aspects that stand out and depending on the implementation, but I'll take the DLSS over native in this game, any day. The overall benefits outweigh overall possible shortcoming but its up to you what you wanna do in the end.
Hahahahahahahaha come on man, don’t be ridiculous
@ what abot that bottle what disappears in the benchmark ? or in alan wake 2 there dlss 4 makes text dissapear on a board ............
no thx .... i paly native with low latency and no ghosting or bullshit ........
i have standards ......
@@de4ler I’m not going to waste time with a troll
@ yeah ...... last time ppl said OH DLSS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN NATIVE ....... and now nvidia come out said we fixed the ghosting and issues what dlss 3 had ........ and idiots are back saying the same shit OH DLSS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN NATIVE until DLSS 5 comes and nvidia will say fixed the ghosting and issues what dlss 4 had ...... brinless idiots ..... moron ... sheeps ....... eating up this nonsense ....... go ahed turn on RT and MFG4 and dlss and eat up that slop that jensen is shitting on you for 2000$ ...... absolute pathecit that ppl dont have standards .........