First Look at the $5000 Muse Hobby Laser Cutter
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2017
- We check out the Muse, Full Spectrum's hobby-class laser cutter priced at $5000. It's a 45 watt CO2 laser that aims to compete with other emerging hobby cutters made to run in the home garage or workshop. We learn about the features, interface, and expected usage lifespan of this laser cutter that's shipping today.
Find out more about the Muse here: fslaser.com/muse
Shot by Joey Fameli and edited by Norman Chan
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Simone Giertz / simonegiertz
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Adam Isaak / adamisaak
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Sean Charlesworth / cworthdynamics
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Thanks for watching! 
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Norm always asking the right questions. Great job, Norm.
BlobVanDam he's honestly incredible at questions. He's also learned to be a lot quieter to let the interviewee take the conversation deeper
Norms the shizzz!
It hasnt happened recently but i love it when you see the PR guys brain stop working for a few seconds after a question he asks :)
I know. It's amazing how many interests Norm seems to have. It genuinely feels like he's been working with laser cutters for years in this interview.
2017 is going to be the year of the laser!
You should have engraved the bat houses with a batman logo...
oh em gee...i can imagine all my art go from drawings to keepsakes. i cannot wait to have one in my studio. so cool! thanks, Lee
I have a couple of their older lasers and am glad to see this unit making it to market. They said the controller for this one can be added to the older lasers minus the cameras and that is a big plus. I know the pro and 5th gen will accept the new card but if it also supports the 4th gen hobby that would be perfect.
A comparison video between the Muse and the Glowforge would be awesome!
MajorBreakfast anybody know which is better?
Agreed, this is exactly the information in currently searching for.
Capability wise, they are about the same.
The Glowforge is slightly cheaper and more user friendly, but the Muse is more easily repairable.
Just look up the comparisons against the Dremel LC40. The Muse is just Full Spectrum selling the laser them selves with a few small updates rather than under the Dremel name.
I love how Norm subtly gets a free Laser Cutter for his job. And how quickly and efficiently the PR guy got it.
This thing is great when time is running out, but the price is madness. I'll take a bow for the engineering though, the possibilities are truly endlessly.
It's nothing new.
A $5k chinese unit will be large enough to sit inside, with a >150W laser.
You can buy a cutter similar to this one in terms of performance(if not better) for around $450-500 tops.
I think I need this - this machine was made for me :P
nice one norm !! this is on me want now list !! it looks just right for my space pumped that muse ive been waiting for something this size noice!!
Hardware seems great, I would love to play around with it & see how the software performs.
LMI was put out of business by Epilog and Universal I had one of those monsters in my Shop in Santa Ana its how I made the Lazermark for Weatherby until they bought their own machine then Moved from Southgate. Looking to get back in the Laser business good to know I do not have to Mortgage my house or leverage my business! Great looking Machine!
Best part about this is it sounds like it doesn't have to be connected to the cloud to function
>$5000
>Hobby
Excuse me, what?
Darth Biomech just to differentiate it from a industrial applications laser cutter
Depends on your hobby. Boating, skydiving, skiing, motorsport... there are lots of ways to burn one's money.
+ jfbeam -- Yep. I have more than $6,000 in camera gear I've accumulated over the years, more than $4,000 in cookware and kitchen tools, and more than $3,000 in scuba gear; but I'm not a professional photographer, professional chef, nor commercial diver -- those are all hobby tools.
SeikiBrian but you did have to pony up all that in one go did you?
Lemuel Nicholls If you mean "didn't have to," yes, in the case of the scuba gear I did. Top-of-the-line first- and second-stage regulator and safe second ("octopus"), high-end buoyancy compensator, dive computer, custom-made wetsuit, mask with prescription lenses... It all adds up. However I didn't pay all that for a single piece of equipment. If I were still as heavily into photography as I used to be I might have bought a Canon 1D-series camera instead of dive gear, and that could easily be 6,000 just for the body, to say nothing of lenses.
I love how this guy talks about corner loops like they're something they just invented. Dude, that's been in the laser industry for decades now!
happy new year
Touchscreen e-stop = fail. e-stop must always be a big red button easy to get to and able to be slapped fast barely looking.
I think he means just that it should be able to be pressed without looking, easy with a physical button, not with a touch screen.
Why would you need the reaction time of a physical E-Stop on a device that:
a) can't be operated while it's being opened.
b) at no time has physical contact with the work piece ( unlike, a 3D Router ).
c) most likely runs proprietary software thus eliminating the chance of user error because of the wrong settings.
I have an 2016 X-Carve which ticks all 3 issues described above thus really do requiring an E-Stop but THIS bugger? I don't thing so.
"Why would you need the reaction time of a physical E-Stop"
In one word... Fire!
I mean you should be able to be walking by it, see something bad happening, and have slapped the e-stop in one second while barely looking and know absolutely for certain that you pressed it.
+Jim Shepard You are quite correct, proper industrial quality E-stop buttons are available for $25-35 (guys don't buy cheap Chinese products for safety applications) But most people aren't comfortable working with mains electrical stuff. At this price point I would like to see a physical button on the machine itself.
This guys have been around for quite a lot of time, they know their stuff, would get this over the Glow forge any day. However, a generic Chinese laser cutter may still be preferred. May not be as user friendly, but the if you get one with DSP, it will be much more capable and less than half the price.
+Tested Okay, when you get this, you need to put it up head to head against the Glowforge. I've said this before: Only way to put them through their paces is to build a dollhouse with the machines. And not some rickety POS Barbie Malibu Dream House. Has to be an actual two to three story dollhouse with trim, roof, everything, and using the same house and files for the both machines. And use different materials, like acrylic windows.
you guys should in-house review this and then compare it pros and cons to the glowforge. I'm sure love maker spaces would be very interested
Basically a K40 with a slightly better tube and some sensors. Wonder what board they driving it with. Smoothieware?
so this device is like 'personal' version of the industrial one? but if this use for workstation (for example like a small business scale) is it reliable as industrial standard machinery?
light forge killer!
How does this compare to the Glowforge - and what would justify the extra cost?
*_"DOES NOT NEED INTERNET TO WORK"_* That is music to my ears. Do not buy equipment that requires the internet to work. We've all seen companies go out of business or drop a product line, leaving the user high and dry. This really looks like a good piece of gear. Added it to my _STUFF-I-WANT* list. Next Christmas maybe?
You are so right no working from the clouds.
if I hang the vent hose outside a window is this safe to use in an apartment
I love how neither of them mention glowforge, but this product is clearly FS rushing to capitalize on the "easy-mode" market. I also love the little dig about not having to be online to work. I'd totally buy this before a GF.
Both of these are trash in terms of price to performance.
$5k gets you a >150W chinese machine that you can sleep inside of.
and spend days or weeks squashing bugs, dealing with bad or poorly written documentation and replacing mirrors, lenses, power supplies, fixing grounding issues...You get what you pay for.
I agreed with lathan there is no support with Chinese Lasers and many hours of debugging . This is a great price. I even have an GF perorder. Might get this one too. The thing Spirit don't to seem to understand is that these laser are easy to use I don't have time to learn how to use a tool. I just want to work with my designs. I Would get a Epilog but what i need they wanted 17k for a 30 watt laser.
This is not a great price.
Let me ask you this: is 3 hours of debugging worth $4500 to you?
Yes? Send me a few million.
who makes a Chinese laser for less that includes three camera system, on board file storage and a touch screen? When you find one that can match this one feature for feature we can talk but right now all you are suggesting is a diy kit that only gets half the job done, has no manufacturer support, is known to have problems and it's only saving grace is price which is easily made up for in time wasted fixing stuff.
This machine is great but it's only as good if one knows how to operate/program it! What does one need to know in order to laser cut wood from RC airplane plans? I assume one could laser etched with this as well, correct?
Yes hear that
WANT!
Is this one ever going to ship, or will it be another Glowforge?
why did i get a glow forge... im still waiting for it; where is it at???
I need this machine
$5,000 is still pretty hefty for the hobbyist market, plus the air and water hookups will make it a bit of a pain. Cool product, though.
So, am I supposed to hook this up to the water faucet in the kitchen to get it cool enough?
Not possible to use an external radiator?
It includes a water tank and pump that are under the table. Air to air cooling is too slow for most glass tubes so just using external radiator doesn't work.
Full Spectrum has been around for a while at least.
As someone who runs a etsy shop this machine appealed to me as a maker. Now let's talk price, the muse is actually 5500-6000 to buy with a exhaust and air compressor. 5123 dollars with just their machine and u provide ur exhaust and air compressor. glow forge starts at 3000 and up to 6000 dollars including the same set up. Mr. Beam 2 is 2500 dollars or 3000 dollars with its air filter. Now all three laser cutters has cameras built features with user friendly software. So picking one is all about your budget and how long you're willing to wait. These machines are great for small businesses no one/the average person doesn't spend 3-6grand on a hobby in one sitting. Now in terms of getting one of the three here's the reality; Glowforge, and Mr. Beam are kick starter companies. They offer no financing they offer no guarantee that their products will be shipped out to you after you pay so much money. Full spectrum laser has financing options for all of their machines including the muse for as low as 197.80 a month, first three months u don't have to pay. fsl is a experienced company that once u pay their price with or without financing u will get the product. let's say glow forge offers financing their products, you order it, but do not get to use it until it is shipped whenever that may be ur stuck paying for it while they haven't even shipped it yet. Mr. beam too is the same way, their orders won't be shipped out till August supposedly.
I could see someone in a service industry like wedding planning being able to make their money back in short order with this machine, but without it being able to cut even the thinnest metals I really struggle to see the "hobby" aspect beyond the occasional project. But for the right niche this would pay for itself fast.
You can buy a used multi axis CNC lathe or mill for this price and be able to build almost anything out of even titanium if you wanted. I don't understand the use case for this machine. How many thin wooden shapes do you need?
Just what I have been waiting for! Bought an eBay Chinese laser engraver for $500. Got software in Chinese, instructions written in ????. Absolutely could not figure out what they were trying to say. Spent two days on the internet before I could get the first engraving done. One of mirrors burned up a few day later. Told the eBay vendor about it, and, after 10 days, he had still not even sent a replacement mirror out.
Checked with many, many American sellers and it basically boils down to $10,000 minimum for a 40 or 45 watt unit.
So, if you have the money, get this one - at least you will have software and manuals that you can read and understand.
Bullshit.
They'll still be reselling chinese units with a huge markup.
If you're too stupid to understand how a silly little laser cutter works, maybe this is indeed the tool for you - but not for the people that value their money and don't want a joke for $5k.
$5k gets you a huge chinese machine with a >150W laser and a really, really large work envelope.
This happens allot with cheap equipment.
Spirit By all means, shine on China! You ever buy tools from Harbor Freight? Bottom line, you get what you pay for Yankee.
I have a laser on it's way to me. 600x900mm cutting area, 100W RECI tube, large compressor for air assist, exhaust fan and some spare lenses and mirror. Cost me USD 3890. When I've paid shipping and duty it will still be below USD5000. This is a machine that will do production work 8-10 hours a day. USD5000 for a hobby machine seems very expensive.
rockler?
GCC?
Michael Henriksen Brand? Model? Software support?
G. Weike LG900N. Uses RD Works which is easy to get to grips with. I'm a professional user, this is the 5th laser I've bought. Currently running a LG6040N also from G. Weike. It runs Lasercut 5.3.
I'm aware that you pay for the privilege of local support but even then I think 5 grand is excessive for a hobby grade machine. For app. USD 5100 you can buy a professional grade machine in UK from Justaddsharks.
Kudos man, just checked out justaddsharks and they offer great shipping options even up here to Sweden. Thanks.
Norm is on fire these days.
Can this machine be used to cut fabric? Without "burning it"
But will the fumes set off your fire alarms? Hope it has a exhaust hose if you use it in your kitchen like he says, I doubt anyone would use this in their kitchen.
This is interesting, but i need to see a side to side comparison to Glowforge, with features and price.. but it can take some time before Glowforge are ready to ship.
This model has rotary, Glowforge does not, if that is of interest.
absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely
How is this machine being cooled? Is it active cooling? And is that included for 5k? I have found that even a 45 watt needs active cooling. the water bucket DOES NOT work!
FSOTUBE45W 45W Laser Tube Upgrade $550 on top of the $5000 40W standard lazer
Does the machine have an adjustable z axis?
The focus head is adjustable within 2 inches, but the bottom panel is also completely removable. This allows you to place the machine on any surface so that you're not limited by material size.
For example, If I wanted to engrave a tabletop or my floors, I am completely able to.
Can any commentators recommend competing products? I only recently started thinking about laser cutting and I'm not familiar with what might be out there (not interested in commercial tier cutters).
You could make everything if you had one of these and a 3D printer
How did they handle exhaust at CES? Or was the video of it working taken from their last visit with them?
Typically most customers use a standard scroll cage exhaust fan to vent out a window. When it's not possible to vent outdoors, much like at CES, we use our own fume extractors. This effectively pulls the smoke just like an exhaust fan, but instead pushes the smoke through a series filters.
Full Spectrum Laser That's really cool, thank you for answering! I hope to be able to afford one of your awesome printers in the future!
add draft to the side walls of the buck
Oh man...
Someday.
I'd still be happy with a budget 3D printer.
*drools*
Looks better than the GlowForge, except there doesn't appear to be a pass through slot.
So it's just like a Glowforge only without cloud and shipping now? Nice. Still pricey though.
sound seems bad :/
but is there any laser engraver&cutter for much cheaper? like less then 1000€? because a laser could be a good alternative for my 12th grade project which is currently planned as a 3D printer and i have to decide by tomorrow.
Yes.
A chinese 40W machine is around $500. eBay, Amazon, anywhere you want.
Though a 3D printer is also a nice project.
Having worked with bigger versions of this machine touch screen is such a mistake
They should have named it The GlowMuse!
What differentiates this from a Glowforge?
It has no pass through meaning you can only cut a little larger than letter sized vs the GF bed with x infinite length, it has a water cooled laser meaning you have extra parts to break down (pump, hoses{imagine water spraying around in your ELECTRIC machine} more wires/plugs), it uses corner loops so if you have a square hole in the middle of your piece you will have do little ‘holes’ circle cut outs at each corner of your square hole, they listed a number of things they don’t feel confident in cutting thicker than ⅛th/¼ inch vs GF ½ inch.
Muse or glowforge? A comparison would be great
muse hands down
what is a cheap laser engraver to get started with, have a budget of only 1,000 to start
For that small an amount of money, you'd have to go with a diode laser.
"Shipping now" equals death to the Glowforge
Been waiting over a year for my glowforge.
Mee too. And that machine makes me want to bail out and put money on a real one.
I hear ya.. tho glowforge, if they getting it working correctly, will be a great machine
I did bail on Glowforge....I think after the past two delays...there is no guarantee that they will ship in July. I had my order in since October 2015...
Bail on the very poorly designed glowforge(that will fry its own mirrors/lenses with smoke, lol) and buy a ~$500 chinese laser cutter that doesn't run in the cloud.
and spend days or weeks squashing bugs, dealing with bad or poorly written documentation and replacing mirrors, lenses, power supplies, fixing grounding issues...You get what you pay for.
Can you use this as a printer for paper? No need to change printer-inc.
Pontus Landin paper will burn lol. BUT NO INK!!
Skeptical on their laser tube specs. I have one of their Gen 5 "45 watt" machines, which has a 40watt tube in it. Like all the others Those that have one of their 40 watt tubes really have the same 35watt tube as any other laser.
The software on previous versions is good, but really suffers from bugs that they wont fix, as they skipped over to a new board and now the muse. Leaving a lot of us to deal with bugs.
What is the working area?
20"x12"
Tested your microphone sounds like it is underwater slightly, did anybody else hear that buzzing in the video?
tyler zack ye
Sounds like artifacts from some aggressive noise reduction. It was probably pretty loud in that space.
what am i looking at a box?
Does oil in a car cool the engine? I thought it just lubricated it?
It could be argued that an engine would run a lot hotter without oil.
Hmmm...I think needs to be a tad bigger. I got a pesky secret agent that needs to be cut in half. I guess I just go with the boring belt saw.
wish I had $5000 USD
You went to CES with a crappy mic. Good job.
Something is wrong with the audio on the CES videos.
noise cancellation effects..
did dremel buy this machine?
cool, I just got a whole bunch of ideas for this machine..Just gonna wait til the price drops . Does it come with the software or is it another added cost ??
I'd say it comes with the software given that he said the software is local to the machine.
Or just spend $500 on a K40 chinese cutter with the same tube and nearly the same work envelope, and then take a few hours to learn about software.
and spend days or weeks squashing bugs, dealing with bad or poorly written documentation and replacing mirrors, lenses, power supplies, fixing grounding issues...You get what you pay for.
Lathan Montgomery Or you can just go to the mod wiki dedicated entirely to this cutter, and spend an hour making small, easy mods that turn a $500 machine into a $5000 machine.
Herp derp.
As I said below, even with mod wiki you are stuck spending time you could be building reading and troubleshooting crap that should work right out the box. I guess as a designer and builder I would rather spend my time building that fixing a crappy machine and trying to make it into a better one.
It is the same way most people don't change their own motor oil. Their time is worth more than the $20 they save doing it themselves.
This is much more useful than the $10k coffee maker.
Whats with the audio? Sounds very wierd and there is a tweeting sound, too.
Artai0s Dev they're at a convention probably using background removal feature on the audio
Hobbies for richers... the rest of us plebeians have to use scissors.
everyone subbed to this channel is a pleb
Adam Savage has 6 of these scattered around his house. He uses them to slice his oranges.
It's a shame that there aren't places where makers can get together and pool their resources. If there were, these spaces for makers could buy these ...
crushed2015 speak for yourself XD
Martin Schou There were multiple in my city years ago but all of them closed after a few months since nobody used them. There were lathes and milling machines (non-CNC), saws. Reall glorious!!
So it doesn't cut metal?
hi there I'm a huge fan of you guys, and I have a challenge for Sr.Adam Savage. I challenge him to build a sword. You can choose between Glamdring, Gandalf's sword or Sting from the Hobbit.
Hope you can get the job done.
Keep up with the great work, and all the love and support to you guys from South-Africa.
Fausto.
audio weird or that just me hearing that?
"Cuts up to 1/2" material w/ 45 watt glass tube" ? Either you're making three passes or material is foam - 45 watt is 1/4" tops.
The thumbnail is almost identical to the dell video
Is the audio fucked or it is my speakers?
there is something funny with the sound
noise cancellation effects..
You can get a used Trotec for a less than $5000.
After looking at both the Muse and Glowforge, I decided to get neither. The home business lasers seem to have an inordinate amount of issues that start with the company business models, support and quality. Read the BBB complaints online for both companies. Know what to expect from the Muse customer service. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Muse until I read them...no way. Glowforge is all about PR & marketing. There web page is second only to Apple’s. That they do extremely well. Just look at their pricing page when you press “buy” on their web page....”$16,000 marked down to $5,995.” Silly stupid. Ask for details on how they get “2x faster” with same laser tube. Check out RUclips comparisons on the speed of their various units. And you have to wonder how long it will be before they start a subscription service to access their web based software. Without it, you are buying a brick. Think carefully before you pop for this kind of laser printer. You are paying a lot to be the beta testers on this desktop technology
I've never liked the water cooled glass tube, they always end up cracked a lot sooner than you hope for the cost.
You really can't get away without water cooling them, though. CO2 lasers are quite inefficient, and, y'know, glass, which doesn't conduct heat well at all.
That's why I like the aluminum and ceramic CO2 laser tubes, Air cooled and aluminum conducts heat nicely
Hey Tested, I would love to supply my music for your vids, if you'd want background music or anything.
Much love! I love your content wayyy more than most!
i wish you the best in life
u can edit comments
Tested
Foreignator87, i know lol
I bought a MUSE as soon as it came out (big mistake) my experience has been disappointing.
List of issues:
Alignment:
- The machine has a cheap red diode that breaks easily. I broke mine a few days after using the machine.
Lenses:
- Overpriced. Lenses are glued to a metal support and FSL charges $250 for new ones.
Software:
- Retina engrave 2 was very limited and had several issues with vector files. RE 3 seems a bit better but has a whole new set of issues.
Hardware:
- If you are out of warranty you will have to pay for hardware fixes even if it was a design issue (not customer issue).
Do yourself a favor and buy from a different company.
glowforge anybody?
No, you can actually buy one of these.
The Cheesus I like the glowforge way better
Big difference is that this is not cloud connected (thank God) So It won't be a huge brick when the company inevitably stops support/goes belly up!
the glowforge only works when connected to the cloud but they've said that if the company ever folds that they'd release firmware to allow you to continue to use the machine without the internet. i think the thing they're trying to do is "force" users to interact with the project community they want to build.
I *think* the Glowfordge lacks any Z axis/table height adjustment. The Muse looks to have an adjustable table height and you can add a rotary attachment.
Wow for 5k I would think this machine would come with an RF laser not a generic CO2 laser especially one that low in power output.
So what is it for just creating art or something?
Could use it to create art/engraving, cut out parts to either build things or rapid prototyping. And things of that nature. They can produce extremely clean accurate lines which reduces clean up time. They're rather useful tools if your into that type of stuff.
Ḡαღ♭ℓ℮ℳαḓм@η anything you want to build and prototype
So the only difference between this cheap laser over the expensive laser is the size of the laser?
No, the software. All the hardware is about the same with the exception of mirrors and lenses, with the Chinese ones being average to poor on that factor making keeping things clean a must. On the software side, it can be a night and day difference. I have seen too many bad, broken English versions of RDWorks and MoshiDraw to count. Same for cringe-worthy moments of updating Corel plugins. It comes down to your comfort with tinkering vs just getting the job done. Units like this, Tordec and Glowforge have easier software so the learning curve is lower. It is like buying a car, all will get you there but how do you want to arrive and what will be easiest to maintain.
Lathan Montgomery so we just need to wait for some dude to make a better and open source software? ;p
Isn't that the answer for everything in the land of open source software? ;)
Glowforge!
It is a 400 $ laser engraver with different case
love how people are making a big deal about a 5000 doller hobby you guys obviously have not done the math on how much some people spend on a race car that they race on the week ends lol 5000 really isnt that much ..IF you have the need for it and can make products to sell to make it up
You said it my friend. Racers spend 5k on a set of heads, even go cart racing!! Lol. True dat. I like racing and know you only used that as an example but nothing has changed. Something nice, new and different like this will always have a big price tag on it. Wish I could buy a really, nice, new bass boat for 5k!! And we could go on and on and on.... good point Sir
Comin up next: first look at the 1.5 billion dollars hobby space shuttle.
GlowForge is becoming vaporware. They keep doing rounds of funding and have only shipped a few printers to reviewers. Their cutter hasn't changed in nearly 2 years when I've seen it at World Maker Faire yet they keep insisting they are improving it. What they really are doing is realizing they can't profit selling them at the price they quoted people so they are sitting on production until the cost of components come down which is unfair to the Kickstarter supporters. I like the FSL Muse is real with a realistic price and good features out of the box like the much-needed filter. I would put much more trust in a company that has a history of building amazing laser cutters then continuing to wait on the vaporware GlowForge keeps promising. I've talked to a few people that received the GlowForge review units and they all say the unit works perfectly and as expected so the argument that GlowForge is still tweaking is just a stall at this point.
I think I'm going with the Muse since $5000 now to get something that works is better than $2000 for something I will never receive.
Speed. He neglected to mention a HUGE difference between the hobby and pro models is speed. FS have a $3700 version here: www.rockler.com/power-tools/laser-cutters-engravers
Muse has a completely upgraded gantry system that is more in line with our pro series machines. Muse can run at faster speeds than our 5th Gen Hobby due to it's precision and durability.
The base price of our 5th Gen Hobby starts at $3499 and is a great into machine into CO2 laser cutting.
Great. FS should post a side by side video on their RUclips channel where both the 5th gen and Muse run the same paths on the same material at the same time so that customers have an indication of what the increase of $1500 gets them regarding speed.
It's definitely a plan. We're planning on doing a whole series of tests and live videos in the coming weeks.
Looking forward to this videos :) Do you have partners in europe or especially germany for orders, service etc. ?
At the moment, we don't have any re sellers in the area. We do ship internationally and will support all of our machines from in house here in the US.