Ranking Every ThunderClan Leader in Warrior Cats
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2023
- There have been ten ThunderClan leaders over the years that have appeared in the main books, super editions, and novellas. In this video I rank them!
Cat art is by Miss Dako: / miss_dakoart
Intro by Lady Luzifer: / @lady_luzifer 
Развлечения
I've never liked the book's insistence that Tigerclaw would have been a good old boy had his dad not left the clan. Not only have there been plenty of cats w/absent fathers who turned out fine but Tigerclaw was well respected and successful because he upheld the ideals of violence against outsiders. Not to mention all of the support he had from his mother, mentor and the rest of the clan. Tigerstar felt entitled to power, I don't think that would have changed if pinestar stayed.
That whole argument reminds me of when politicians argue that divorce causes serial killlers
exactly, tigerclaw was a direct result of the clan's views and treatment of outsiders, and what qualities they valued. its why an outsider like rusty was needed in the clans in the first place, or at least thats how i interpret it.
The books doesn't make that point at all. Idk why Akira says so. Maybe she hasn't read the novella in a while? Starclan LITERALLY asked Pinestar to KILL Tigerkit.
They weren't "Oh you must take care of this kit it's so important" they were most "We know we told you yesterday you had to lead him in the right direction, but now that he's born we can see he's evil, even though he's not even a full day old, so kill him plz."
Pinestar left partly because he couldn't obey Starclan
Thistleclaw was his mentor. Wtf did you expect
True, but it could be possible that maybe if Pinestar had stayed he could have at least taught Tigerclaw manners, and how to be noble. I do feel like a part of Tigerclaws hatred to Kittypets is because his father left him, and maybe that played a small part in Tigerclaw going to the dark side much easily.
There's many possibilities. I don't disagree with you, I just feel that maybe if Pinestar had stayed and took it seriously maybe Tigerclaws evilness wouldn't have happened so quickly, and maybe he would have been a great leader.
I'm not saying if his father stayed he would be more nice, and understanding. I still think he would have been a little biased and head strong, but I also think he could have been more selfless at least to his own clan. These are just "what ifs" so please don't attack me or fight with me, as this is just my opinion and the possibilities I think could have happened.
@@reneedittmer9625 (sorry in advance i wrote way too much but your point is also very interesting)
i think it quickly snowballs into the larger philosophical debate of nature vs nurture: was tigerclawstar the way he was because of some deep insecurity that pinestar leaving caused? or was it the fact that he was trained by thistleclaw, a violent and outsider-hating cat? maybe thistleclaw capitalized on pinestar leaving to egg tigerclawstar on in his hate. or maybe there is something systemically wrong with the warriors and how they're raised, and if tigerclawstar didn't become who he became, someone else would have easily replaced him. it's not too hard to imagine, like, darkstripe or mousefur or some other rando getting it into their head that all their enemies need to be eradicated and to do that they have to make Super Mega Clan and kill everyone the moment they stop being able to hunt and fight. what's more damning is that i can also imagine a tigerclawstar (and a sol, or any other wc villain for that matter) being a protagonist in their own right if they stop wanting to kill people so badly and just follow up on their admittedly okay ideas.
there is the other side of the debate that tigerclawstar was, as starclan put it, evil from the start because of some permanent stain on his soul, and that even if pinestar had stayed he would have gotten too bloodthirsty and followed through anyway. however, my interpretation of starclan's omen is a little different. i think, since starclan issues prophecies, they can predict the future, and that they don't care whether tigerclawstar is inherently good or bad or of his environment will cause him to do what he does. all they care about is that in the future, at one point, tigerclawstar will cause a lot of pain in the clans.
in this way, starclan is either ultimately pointless or evil. if they're omniscient, they can just finagle fate in a way that gives tigerclawstar a lot of cat therapy as a kid, and he turns out fine, and by giving pinestar that omen, they messed up badly by just making tigerclawstar a point of reference to hate. or, if tigerclawstar's exploits increase starclan's glory -- after all, it gives them the legend of firestar to tell -- they did it on purpose with no regard to the lives they'd end
I can’t believe they’re are only ten known thunder clan leaders-
(Edit: YALL, I’m not tryna start a fight-)
Nah there are way more!
well, owlstar wasnt on this list but im pretty sure we were only told abt him, not shown him
same
There were also many leaders between thunderstar and redstar who are mentioned in code of the clans
There isn’t, there’s way more that just have minimal presence in the books so they weren’t included
Oakstar also showed favoritism towards his son. He ignored the older warriors that could have been amazing deputies for doestar, but he basically pounds it into her head that his son should be leader after her. He couldn't take away her position so he had her make his son deputy.
I feel Sunstar is underrated as a character, not just leader. He was a great mentor to Bluefur and helped her get over her grief for Moonflower and Snowfur. I think a reason he chose Bluefur over Thistleclaw is because he knew her better and knew she'd been through a lot. I sometimes wish Sunstar had more characteristics as a leader other than being a filler.
Sunstar is so cool. And he was done so dirty, I loved him.
100% agreed. He is such an underrated character. I love his crush on Moonflower. He would’ve been a better mate than StormTail.
There is one more characteristic about Sunstar: He was straight up prophesied to become leader. Goosefeather predicted it and was right. The only other leader I know of in Thunderclan that had the same treatment is Firestar but only if you really squint at his prophecy
i think its also because bluestar never had a present father (since stormtail was out cheating) and sunstars crush on moonflower made him fall into the role of a father figure, and he really saw bluestar as his daughter. especially because he mentored her.
FireStar being first on the list makes sense. He’s done so many good deeds before he was leader. He was apart of the squad that led the dogs away (R.I.P BlueStar,) He led every clan into battle against Bloodclan not too long after becoming leader and lost a life to defeat Scourge once and for all, there’s so many things I could name. The list could go on for ages.
I think he is essentially Thunderclan's King Arthur.
Firestar IS that guy.
Yeah, Firestar is THE main character. He was involved in both the rescue and restoration of the mordern clans, brought SkyClan back, and took down the largest threats to the clans.
@@IJustAnimateThatsTheJistit seemed pretty predictable since he’s the first character we know, and it’s like the mascot, like mario
-sigh- sometimes you can’t beat the classics.
I agree with this ranking, although I do want to say I did really like Sunstar for all of the good advice he gave to Bluefur while he was deputy. He really pulled her out of a dark place after she lost her mother and again when she lost her sister, and he was compassionate when she lost her kits and gave her time to grieve when she needed it. Yeah he was boring as a leader, but he was a friend to anyone who needed one, and I love that about him.
Plus his Warrior name is one of my all time favorites. Sunfall is pretty great
@@rhaegals_7950I never knew his warrior name, god that’s so pretty ty for sharing TvT
You are being quite unfair on Pinestar. Starclan litteraly asked him to kill his own son because somehow that newly born kit was already evil. And as he refused, they kept harassing him.
Between this, the idea that staying leant choosing between killing his son or letting him become anthreat to the forest, and the weight of being clan leader (you couldn't just stop being one back then), he didn't just left the clan out of pure selfishness. Starclan are the ones in the wrong here.
Starclan is usually in the wrong. Very rarely are they correct. Which is why I prefer the Dawn of the Clans books, in which Starclan doesn't exist and they don't harass anybody.
@@BPJD2004 Not a huge fan of the prophecies. Find out what they mean last minute even when the event involving the prophecy happenened. Why waste a whole arc figuring out a cryptic prophecy when you can flat-out say what will occur?
Starclan *can* foretell the future (by my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong), so...?
I enjoy the belief system a bit, as it gives a bit of a challenge, but sometimes it's either ignored or Starclan doesn't help (sometimes).
Honestly that's why I love how even though most of the characters see starclan as this flawless paradise, the authors aren't afraid to show us just how cruel and flawed it really is, take the battle against the dark forest, starclan chose to split into the clans they died in, and abandon the living cats to let them deal with it themselves, only coming to their senses almost last second to help
And that makes it easier to believe why so many cats were manipulated by Tigerstar, Hawkfrost, and Mapleshade, they were able to do something StarClan never bothered doing. Acting empathetic. If you came to Starclan for help, you were basically told "tough luck kid, now leave, I have some self pampering to do to celebrate the fact that I did nothing to help you." But Hawkfrost was able to act like he understood Ivypaw. Tigerstar was able to take the fact that he was deputy in ThunderClan and Leader of shadowclan to manipulate cats from both clans. And Mapleshade manipulated Crookedstar by taking advantage of his trauma and pretending she cared and was looking out for him.
Its fasinating when you really look into the dynamics and interactions between StarClan, the Dark Forest, and the living cats
@@RhythmShortsThat tells me everyone in starclan isn’t really in the good place, they’re actually in the bad place 😱
@@BPJD2004meanwhile Fluttering Bird, a baby, starts aggressively harassing her brother into an idea that apparently is wrong and no one, not even Fluttering bird herself, telling him what they're actually trying to tell him
Ya know this video made me realize...the cats of Thunderclan complained about Firestar's bloodline ruling over the clans....yet pay no heed to Oakstars? Like we had Oakstar, who then had Pinestar, if things went well Tigerstar would of been leader TC if things went differently, but ended up a leader of SC...and then we had Brambleclaw as a leader. Compared to Firestar's single generation it's not really a problem XD
Also nepotism is actually worse in other Clans, until recently it was basically only one family rulling in each Clan with occasional "one leader break". Onestar is Tallstar's nephew and now Onestar's nephew Crowfeather is the deputy. Rowanstar was Raggedstar's nephew, I don't think I have to mention Brokenstar and second Tigerstar. Crookedstar was son of deputy before him, he chose his brother as deputy, Leopardstar chose both nephew and niece of Crookedstar and deputies, and then Mistystar chose her son as deputy (sadly the bloodlines of 4 previous Clan leaders of RiverClan died out - Stormfur doesn't count - so they will definitely be free of nepotism for a while). Only Clan who's not worse than ThunderClan is SkyClan, and that's because they were just recreated, but Leafstar still chose son of her first deputy to be deputy as well.
Also, until the latest book Thunder, SkyClan actually had the WORST case of nepotism. It's one thing to pick a family member for an important position, or even just family of a friend. But far worse example of nepotism is creating a whole position for somebody, position that is basically pointless and said somebody does nothing most of the time. I am talking of course about Leafstar creating position of mediator for Tree, mate of her deputy's daughter, who since the creation of this position done almost nothing, didn't stopped the situation with Sisters, tensions between Clans during TBC, or in the first half of ASC. Sadly they remembered about him in Thunder, ruining my joke xD (I literally wrote about it to a friend a week before the book came out, she made so much fun of me for it)
It's really frustrating how the Erins decided to punish Frecklewish instead of making Oakstar take accountability in at least one of the books, considering how he not only caused the death of 3 kits, but consequentially caused the deaths of many cats after Mapleshade loses her mind and after she gets sent to the Dark Forest where she goes on to manipulate and harm cats in the future
Honestly Mapleshade vengeance feels more like, besides Appledusk and maybe Ravenwing, like Maple's victims were just put into a hat and picked out from randomly, the only wrong I can see Frecklewish doing is traumatizing the hell out of the poor babies, because you cant tell me its not traumatizing to see your, in your eyes, aunt attack your mom, then screech that you need to get away and have her call you a bunch of terrible names. Honestly Oakstar wouldve made a much better placeholder, after all no one really knows how many lives he had left (and be honest, Beestar is a cute name and I feel like he'd be a better dad than Oakstar who's nothing but nepostistic) so Mapleshade doing what she did to Frecklewish to Oakstar wouldve felt more justifiable
@jeriko_studios She only really targeted Frecklewish because she "saw" the kits drown and didnt help, but she thought Riverclan would help because she couldnt swim herself. Kinda wish she died fighting Oakstar and not getting nerfed by an apprentice.
Maple shade could’ve kept her kits if she was smart. She could’ve walked her kits across one by one instead of all of them going at once-
Well, none of Mapleshade's victim's were justifiable; she was insane, and acting on her insanity (which I firmly believe she could have resisted). She just wanted to murder people, and her "visions" gave her an excuse to. Anyway, if I remember correctly, she was at least sort of friends with Frecklewish, so she might have felt more betrayed
she did it for her kits you know, not for herself, any other queen would do that. Its canon and common sense@@user-xu2bt9tc4v
1:34 I like to headcanon that Mapleshade killed Frecklewish instead of Oakstar to cause Oakstar pain. It would make sense for why she didn’t kill Crookedstar.
I like this headcanon, but honestly sometimes I wonder if Oakstar just wanted a male heir to carry his legacy on, since you never see him (from what I remember I DO need to reread pinestar's choice soon) care as much about frecklewish as he does about birchface and pineheart
@@jeriko_studios …
Well, I never really liked the guy in the first place.
8:21 I don’t care if he’s “unrealistic” or not, this is what a leader should be. Selfless, capable, proactive, compassionate. He’s the quintessential hero and I’m all for it.
Does anyone else want MinnowTail to become the new leader of river clan?
I do!
no i want a random apprentice to be their new leader
I’d love it. And maybe she can pull a Bluefur and have a half ThunderClan litter with Mousewhisker so that weird flirting plot thread can finally go somewhere (assuming the authors remember that at all)
I kinda want frostpaw to be lead to make splashtail mad lol
Mildly lol
Your reasoning with Bramblestar is 100% a reason why I refuse to acknowledge Squirrelflight's Hope as canon. He took the kittypets in that needed refuge in Bramblestar's Storm and has never had outsider bias to that degree before. He was written as an antagonistic force for the sake of conflict. I like Bramblestar as a character and the way the book butchers him makes it hard for us few fans to justify liking him.
Also, I love Doestar and I'm so happy to finally have someone talk about her xD
I know! I love my Bramblebae and the writers butchered him for no reason! That's another reason why I don't read any of the books that take place after Bramblestar's Storm, cause he just gets worse after that.
fr! i dont even like him but cmon.. they didnt need to make him SO BAD in that book
@@BPJD2004 to me, Bramblestar's Storm was a glimpse of hope for a leader that has alot to prove, instead he got wasted and possessed by a cat that shouldn't even be in the Dark Forest in the first place. Ashfur clearly did end up in Starclan if I can recall from one of the books prior to what happened after Darktail showed up.
Omg, thank you! I personally think that Squirrelflight's Hope is a huge OOC and do not count it as a canon. Everyone calls Bramblestar an abuser but Squirrelflight is kinda the problem too. She sneaks everywhere like a apprentice and not a respected deputy, she's willing to have more kits, even if two of her kits were born weak and died because she was old, like Alderpaw says, and she had reproductive abuse on Bramblestar (You don't want more kits? Then you don't love me). Bramblestar didn't want to hurt Sister, but otherwise, if he would support them, he would put his clan against three of clans. The problem was either Sister could move out, or clans could wait and it could be done much easier, but Hunters needed the conflict. In my fandom many people doesn't agree that Bramblestar is an abuser but in english fandom almost everyone thinks like that and it upsets me.
Don't forget that Squirrelflight's Hope is written from Squirrelflight's POV, back in The New Prophecies, Squirrelflight's POV in volume 5 had a really strong disapproval of Brambleclaw, when we knew that he was different from what she thought of him at that point.
I feel like Bramble is better than Doe considering she condemmed her clan to starve, even if it was unintentional, by not even asking for help. He didnt cause the rockfall, and while he was irrational in the book, his character was butchered for the sake of conflict. He never is like that otherwise. Meanwhile, Doe's decision caused cats to die and was stupid.
THANK YOU
Yeah i feel like we overlook how bramblestar behaved in the new prophecy series and up until the end. If squirrelflight had been proven wrong and hawkfrost was the bad guy then she'd have been unwantedly prejudice against him because of his father. Which up until the end of that series, hawkfrost had not done any more than any of the other cats that helped mudclaw that any of the main protags were aware of. And brambleclaw was completely reasonable on their quest. Brambleclaw was the right choice as graystripes replacement as deputy because firestar trained him and knew him well. But bramblestars biggest mistake was choosing squirrelflight to be deputy when he did. It should have been thornclaw or some other senior cat and then maybe have chose squirrelflight much later on. Firestar made the right choice not choosing sandstorm as his deputy and bramblestar should have done the same.
100% True
@@breadboygamingwholegrain..
@@therandomMATRIX9000I’m confused!?
I think Oakstar being bad and Maple not blaming him is kinda a whole point. Mapleshade’s vengeance is about a grieving mother (or well ex-mother) unreasonably lashing out at innocent people in her grief and ending in her losing even more. It wouldn’t be the best if she blamed Oakstar for a second, because now she is more reasonable, just I little piece I like about the book.
This is also why sending Freckle to hell was a bad decision even if she deserved it (which she didn’t)
okay but… she did deserve it. she did one of the worst things imaginable. she stood by and watched while innocent kits died just because they belonged to a cat she didn’t like. that’s why she went to hell 🤷♀️
@@quinnsmith2454she probably can’t swim, she’s no doubt traumatized by losing her brother to that river, and she saw a patrol of RiverClan cats (aka the cats best equipped to rescue the kits from the river). Trying to save them would just make her another liability for the RiverClan cats to save
@@quinnsmith2454what could she have done? Also she didn’t watch she saw RiverClan cats who were much closer and actually trained and capable to swim and rescue cats from the river so she left. Her getting involved would have actually hurt the chances of saving Mapleshade and the kits.
@@mwokozi “WHaT CoULd ShE HavE DoNe” i don’t know, literally anything but watch/assume they were going to be okay? maybe tell the riverclan cats where they were so they could go there and try to save them? maybe tried to extend a branch into the water for them to grab onto like appledusk did for mapleshade? maybe anything but SIT THERE IN SILENCE AND WATCH THEM DROWN. i’m sick of you people trying to make frecklewish out to be a victim when she is not. the erins said the reason for putting her in the dark forest was because she was “careless with the lives of kits because she is angry”. if ANY cat is careless with the lives of kits for ANY reason they deserve to go to the dark forest. if you let innocent children die, you go to hell, no questions asked.
I found cats like Bramblestar and Bluestar a lot more interesting to read. Ultimately no person, or cat, is going to be perfect their entire lives. They're going to make stupid thoughtless decisions. I enjoy the fact that their characters are more realistic than the almost always perfect Firestar... and I look forward to seeing Squirrelstar trip over her tail sometimes.
God I hope Squirrelflight actually gets to screw up instead of just being perfect all the time. Like, she has plenty of flaws that could make her an imperfect leader, but it feels like people ignore those flaws because they pity her.
@@CatpixeledI mean she screws up a lot too. It’s just that a lot of her blunders are because she is forced into a desperate situation because her mate id kinda a spineless moron and was like that since the second arc after they completely butchered Brambleclaw’s character and went back on all his characterization from the first arc. Bramblepaw is one of my favorite characters but Brambleclaw and on is one of my least favorites because he kept getting the benefit of the doubt and being rewarded with power despite proving to be unfit for a position of leadership especially with how stupid he is. Squirrelstar can be reckless and brash but so was Brambleclaw a lot of the times but she’s also much smarter. She’ll be a much better leader but not perfect. She is still brash and reckless at times and can be headstrong and stubborn but she has more positive leadership traits than Brambleclaw.
For firestar i think he’s place is very well deserved I mean he did so much for ThunderClan, he deserves the place. I’m also glad you put Thunderstar as high as you did as I truly do think he’s a good leader. I’m also kinda surprised that Squirrelstar was a low as she was and that Bramblestar was as high as he was but considering you reasoning I can understand that, but yeah I agree with just about everything in this ranking.
Ps: could you do a SkyClan or ShadowClan ranking next?
skyclan and shadow clan ranking will be fun! :)
I think Tallstar would take first place since he lived long enough to see the new place the clans were going to settle.
@@merafirewing6591 true but that would be windclan
We only know Skystar, Cloudstar and Leafstar from outside field guides so a SkyClan ranking would be pretty short... unless you count Buzzarstar and Spiderstar. I don't count Buzzarstar and Spiderstar.
@@LostBonesNumber Don't forget Skywatcher was a leader of Skyclan for a very short time, not to mention he kept Skyclan's traditions alive when everyone around him called him a crazy loner known as Moony.
I think whats often overlooked about MV is that both cats in the leadership position, besides Beetail (though he was still stupid for allowing a blatant violation of the warrior code to happen), are both pretty responsible for the death of the kits, yes Mapleshade was dumb to take them to the river during a mass rain storm (also the fact that literally only three times a big river wave spawns in the series is so coincidental that im starting to believe that starclan straight up sent the wave), but Oakstar broke the warrior code by putting kits in danger. As did Ravenwing, since if he truly believed in the prophecy, he still should've waited till at least morning, and Oakstar couldve had Mapleshade escorted out of the territory. After all the river wasn't the only danger the family could've been stuck with being out alone in the middle of the night in pouring rain, theres foxes and badgers aplenty in the books, and it was a damn miracle that they didn't run into any of those. The irresponsibility of two cats who are supposed to be the wisest, or at least most level headed of the clan is just... jaw dropping
For some cats in my opinion there were some traits that are rather personal than leader qualities and actions. But for the most part it was surprisingly a fine rank.
6:35 popular does not always mean that someone makes a good leader though. really we need to wait until these new books to come out to see how well she will perform
TRUE!!! People keep saying that Squirrelflight “deserves” to be leader, but that’s not how that works! Just because you like or feel bad for her doesn’t mean she deserves power and authority.
I love Sunstar. He was a Mediator years before Tree came along. Don’t remember the exact situation or which clan it was, but he takes a patrol to talk to a leader threatening them. He told the leader that it would be his fault if he decided to start a fight because sunstar was telling him now they could have peace.
I thought that was very admirable. He took on leadership with 8 lives, was a very good mentor and father figure to Bluestar, etc.
I think he’s great and he deserves his rank.
Could you make this a series and do ShadowClan next! Two reasons: My first is ShadowClan is my favorite and second it would be very interesting cause of all the bad clan leaders. Just a quick thing that's not related, just because a clan has a lot of bad leaders, ehem ShadowClan, does not mean they are the "Evil clan" have you ever thought that ThunderClan had an evil leader (Ashfur as Bramblestar), very evil but they were still the main/good clan. (The last thing was directed to everyone not just you)
Thanks you so much for making warrior cats videos I have always loved them!😊
I recently finished the DOTC series, and Clear Sky (AKA Skystar) went through some MAJOR character development. The short snippet of him rejecting Frost, a deeply injured but capable cat, and Thunder, his son, was somewhat early in the series.
Clear Sky developed a greater sense of right and wrong throughout the rest of the books, finally changing his ways if leading and becoming a better person in general.
He still made a LOT of mistakes that hurt the people he cared about, but overall he healed his relationship with his son and his brothers, Jagged Peak and Gray Wing.
edit: I reread the rejection of Thunder, it is in the FIRST book, not mid-series.
This is such a good video! I can honestly agree with you on everything you said! Ty for taking ur time to make such a great video!
Akira, you make awesome videos! Keep up the great work, you inspire me alot for my channel!
Firestar deserves his place at 1 after everything he’s been through!
I don’t think Tigerkit was the only reason Pinestar became a kittypet. Pinestar was shaken by all the needless violence in the clans. We as a fandom are constantly pointing out how unnecessary all the fighting, conflict, and rules are in the world of warriors, and Pinestar also seemed to realize this.
You can call him selfish for abandoning his family and clan, and he probably is, but he also left his clan in the care of Sunfall, who was a good leader.
Pinestar seemingly couldn’t handle all the aspects of clan life and leading it, so leaving it in the care of someone more capable would be better off for the clan in the long run
Interesting list! Some of these leaders i haven't read about, like PineStar and Doestar, but the ones i have seem to fit where you put them. Would you consider doing a similar ranking for the other clans? I think that would be interesting!
Polish fandom literally made the squirrelstar page on the polish fandom wiki the most viewed one
Tigerstar's corruption was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
True
akira i love your videos so much, Ive watched your videos in the middle of class before
You didn’t even mention the fact that Firestar led them on the Great Journey too. He really was Mr. Perfect in most ways, although I could point out some of his flaws too (Not giving Brightheart an apprentice for one! I’ll stay mad)
Omg YES brightheart DESERVESS an apprentice so badly, she could teach them so much😭🙏🏾
Honestly i wouldn't even hold that against Firestar, that was the writers forgetting
I think Firestar is supposed to be the archetype of the nearly perfect leader that other cats should aspire to. Maybe not the most realistic, but he is definitely a great cat that does the right thing most of the time, and his reputation is deserved.
I really like this video, I hope you do more of these in the future. ShadowClan would be cool to see for one.
A great video as always
I now want see part 2,but with riverclan😊 it would be very interesting(i want know how much leopardstar is a bad leader)
IM SO EXCITED FOR SQUIRRELSTAR!!
I kinda always was thinking Erin rolled a dice to make a book has multiple deaths or not
Ok, I might be quite bias because I've only read the books with Firestar in them, but he was a VERY good leader. But also a great cat overall.❤
Excited to see this for the other clans too!
7hrs!!! Kinda early love your vids ❤
I forgot that Doestar even existed.
She was one of many cats that made Goosefeather's life so miserable...
We needed this video
im sorry but i feel bramblestar was a great leader as of squilfs hope. like i understand he was a bad mate, but he was an amazing leader. he may have been neglecting squilf, but he was still trying to prevent the clan from going into war with shadowclan and maintain peace with the sisters. i get hes hated and stuff but he was still trying to maintain a peace with the others. the sisters weren't very peaceful either, if they attacked and held squilf hostage?? but idk lol, i still feel as though he's a good leader just commonly ignored for it. agreed with the rest of the rankings though :D
Akira: Mapleshade is stupid
Mapleshade fans: How dare you....
There have actually been like 16 leaders of ThunderClan but it’s a good video! Can you please do a new video where you rating other clans leaders or maybe rating medicine cats?
I honestly loved reading fireheart/stars pov. It was always exciting and i genuinely love him as a character. I think he deserves that 1 spot.
Reasonable list, though I would argue about a few... of course, this is mostly my opinion and all that, yada yada ;p
Bramblestar wasn't needlessly aggressive towards the Sisters (the whole problem with Sisters - aside from trying to keep his mate and deputy a prisoner along with Clan leader that he was trying to help - was that they needed the territory to prevent war between all five Clans), TIGERSTAR was. He was the one who wanted to attack the Sisters, he led the attack, and was the one who gave the order that killed Leafpool. Bramblestar actually tries to talk the Clans out of attacking them, only joins them because the other Clans agreed to, so his options were either to make ThunderClan fight 3 other Clans (while half of his own Clan agreed with the attack), stand aside and do nothing letting Tigerstar do as he please during attack, or go along with it and try to keep the fighting to a minimum. Also both he and Bluestar became mentally unwell during the end of their leadership, but unlike Bluestar, who changed the name of a cat for a horrible one, he changed the name of a cat who disliked his name, despite how said cat displeased many cats with his request. And it's also worth nothing that unlike Firestar who would go around the warrior code to help other Clans, he creates a rule that lets him help the other Clans (although to be fair, if Firestar had tried adding that rule I doubt the other Clans would agree); honestly, Bramblestar should be higher up on the list for creating that law alone, it's basically the equivalent of creating United Nations among the Clans.
(Also regarding Squirrelflight's Hope, while I actually think that his behaviour was undertandable given the tension between the Clans, stress and due to his deputy and mate undermining his authority, I also have a theory that MAYBE Ashfur was already trying to possess him, not in the sense where he takes control of his body, but that he affects his decisions, making him more agressive, paranoid, and so for; possession in fiction takes many forms. In Lost Stars we have from both Shadowpaw and Rootpaw's POV proof that there was already darkness around him before he falls sick, dies and gets possessed. We know that Ashfur's plan began after seeing Mistystar die, and Ultimate Guide mentions this he was working on his plan for years. The battle almost results with Bramblestar losing a life, even. Yes, Squirrelflight sees him in StarClan when she dies... and Bramblestar is more like his old self, she even thinks that he almost looked like the young warrior he was when she fell in love with him. Ashfur could have just abandoned his plan when it looked like Squirrelflight was about to die and gone back to StarClan.)
Personally I would not put Squirrelstar so high up due to her being leader for only one book, but if we're going to judge her time as acting leader too... it hurts me to say it but she maybe shouldn't have let her love for Bramblestar affect her decisions that much, like asking Bristlefrost to protect his body (leading to Stemleaf's death) or trying to go free the Imposter before Rootspring and Bristlefrost talked her out of it. I really do not like this argument, because not only they are my favorite couple but even if it was my most hated couple I wouldn't want them to go through something like this; however, the leader needs to put Clan first :/ That being said, it was not only really difficult time for ThunderClan but for her personally, so while I wouldn't put her on 3rd spot, she'd be either 4 or 5 for me.
Thunderstar is way too emotional to be 2nd in my opinion. He lets his abandonment issues control him, like when he initially refused to help with Slash, or, as you mentioned, he takes in Quick Water, makes Skystar reconsider, which causes that battle that he joins on the wrong side, ending in the death of one of the original leaders. The potential fallout could have easily caused ShadowClan to disperse (although given all the sh*t from the main series caused by them that might have not been the worst thing xD). Thunderstar had no business meddling in that affair, but he did, not out of compassion, but because it was SKYSTAR who threw her out. There was a funny scene in Riverstar's Home where he initially agrees to help RiverClan against Skystar, but then sees Windstar and Shadowstar don't and point out that Riverstar never took their side in the arguments or seemed interested in fighting, and he backtracks. Bad look for a leader ;p Of course, every founding leader gets "extra points" for me simply due to creating their Clans (which is personally why when I compare the leaders I don't count Dawn of the Clans leaders, they have an unfair advantage xD)
I'd also not put Firestar on the 1st spot, because while he was a great leader, him not naming deputy for many moons after Graystripe was gone and his awful "foreign policy" with WindClan really diminished his leadership for me. As a character he's great, as a person and all that, but he has his faults as a leader.
Personally I would actually put Sunstar on the top of the list. He worked hard to make ThunderClan respected after Pinestar's decision, he mind gamed Hailstar into basically giving him Sunningrocks, he fought so hard for his Clan that he lost half of his lives within less than 2 years despite knowing he had only 8, which he kept secret from almost everybody.
So my own list would most likely be:
10. Pinestar
9. Oakstar
8. Redstar
7. Doestar
6. Thunderstar
5. Bluestar
4. Squirrelstar
3. Firestar
2. Bramblstar
1. Sunstar.
Bramblestar never listened to Squirrelflight and would punish her for disagreeing with him along with abusing his power and weaponizing her insecurities against her.
He was always too moronic and spineless to be given a leadership position (outside of Bramblepaw but he was an apprentice at the time. It’s a shame they ruined his character and destroyed all his characterization when the second arc happened) as he knowingly trained with the evil Tigerstar that he knew as an apprentice not to listen to.
ThunderClan is by far bigger than any of the other Clans at the time and he agreed to attack cats who were just staying for a bit so that their pregnant leader can safely give birth.
Squirrelstar on the other hand had a much harder situation and got her Clan out of it along with following her morals. She’s pretty much like the new Firestar since unlike Brambelstar she upholds her morals.
I think it would be awesome if you could make similar videos of all the known clan leaders! Of course, none will be as long as thunderclan, so maybe you can combine 2 clans into one video and make 2 more!
GREAT VIDEO 🎉
I do think blue star should have been a bit higher on the list because I do think she was a solid leader for most of time in that position but she really did start to lose it after tiger claw betrayed her she became mentally unstable at that point. If anyone says anything about fire star being to perfect like what do you expect when star clan personally picks the leader and the fact that he was a kitty pet at first made him see that everyone deserves a chance and that’s basically how he led considering how he felt about bramble claw but he pushed that aside and he was chosen to be his deputy
I love Firestar so much, he deserves to be number one :)
I like Pinestar because his book seems to be the closet thing we have to have as a deconstruction of how mess up Clan life is. I won't say Pinestar is my favorite character of all time, but I like how he choose a lifestyle that would be better for his mental well being. It just struck me as odd that we do not have more cats questioning their place as a warrior. The only other cat I can think of is Ravenpaw who stayed with Barley even after Tigerclaw was deafted.
OoO, Can you do RiverClan next? it would be like a challenge because we dont know much about some of them.
Yay Squirrelstar!!!🎉🎉🎉
Thank you for agreeing that others might have another opinion! Thank you! I think BrambleStar should be higher, as in he should be like 3rd or 4th, but yours are correct to your eyes! Everyone probably has lots of different opinions! Also…Hi.
I mean since the second arc he was never fit for a leadership role. The whole Dark Forest training alone proved he’s too stupid to be trusted to lead. Squirrelflight’s Hope also really showed how poor of a leader he is. The other books he was much better but again not too much. He lacks more empathy and needs to experience things himself or be able to understand other cats (case in point loyalty to your sibling and helping them out. He had continued to hold Squirrelflight’s lie against her until he sided with ShadowClan in Bramblestar’s Storm for the sake of his sister and Squirrelflight supported him thus he finally understood why she lied about the three). He also just isn’t able to listen to other cats.
I love Fire Star. He makes me happy
FireStar is my all time favorite leader since he sacrificed all his nine lives to save the clans, he was not always perfect, he had hard times, and he finds ways to make things right.
I think with Bluestar, people tend to look at her through rose tinted goggles BECAUSE she's iconic. But after Tigerclaw betrays her, she just gives up. People use mental illness as an excuse for her actions, but that is no excuse. Speaking as someone with ADHD, we have to work twice as hard to prove we can handle being in the workforce. And how I handle that, is writing down everything i do and need to do. Otherwise, I'll forget.
I mean...People wanted to use the 25th amendment to get rid of Trump because he seemed completely insane and mentally inept. Firestar essentially became leader the moment he became deputy. She should've had the good graces to step down if she wasn’t fit to lead. Her inaction lead directly to Swiftpaw's death and Brightheart's disfigurement. That's hard to forgive.
I don't think most people view Bluestar through rose tinted goggles, (I think the fandom's avarage opinion on her is neutral) and I've never seen anyone mention her mental illness without mentioning it isn’t an excuse for how she behaved (but I don’t doubt there could be people who express their opinion on her in a very biased way. After all, there are Ashfur apologists…). As you said, mental illness does not excuse bad behavior, but… and there is a but for Bluestar.
She had dementia. It is a confirmed fact. And dementia is a different kind of mental illness. Even the sweetest, kindest person can turn into a hostile, paranoid person. People with dementia aren’t just forgetting things; they lose their ability to judge, they have problems with attention and concentration, perception, and they have mood changes, and even changes in their personality. And this frustrates them. They aren’t like their old self, and things like not remembering or understanding something really makes them upset, as it would upset anyone. Bluestar displays (at some point) all these symptoms. Also, most of the time in the early stages of dementia, people only lose their recent memories; this could be the reason why she is focused on her past traumas so much in the last part of her life. Filling out the gaps they don’t remember or can’t understand can also lead to paranoia and misbeliefs (the WindClan incident is a great example of this).
I think we also forget that Warrior Cats was much, much wilder in the beginning. Cats were dying everywhere, and even the leader looking not exactly like their best was a reason for attack for the other clans. The only leader who “retired” (I’m not sure, I haven’t read DoTC, so correct me if I’m wrong) before her leadership was Pinestar, and ThunderClan really did have a bad reputation because of him. I think retiring was just not an option for her (or really for any leader at that time). The Brightpaw & Swiftpaw thing was partly her fault, partly Swiftpaw’s (people really forget what dumb things he has done; I understand he was desperate for a warrior name, but dragging others with him was not a good idea. Plus he was the one who told at the Gathering that they were holding Brokentail captive in the camp, and this lead to a battle) I’m not saying Bluestar is not at fault for this, but she did apologize to Brightpaw.
No way you just compared adhd to what Bluestar had! While it definitely wasn't intentional, what she was going through, aside from dementia which is already very hard and changes people unrecognisably, was way more like a deep, deep depression, which is a completely another issue and also changes peoples brain chemistry awfully. Deep depression is extremely debilitating. People do keep agency in it, so she still isn't blameless, but yeah, I don't think she could just "power through it by working harder", I feel like insinuating that can be harmful :0
She lost her mom
Her father seemed to forget about her and he had a new mate(not sure)
She saw her sister with a evil cat
Her sister started hating her
She lost her sister
She lost red tail
She lost lion heart
She lost rose tail
She lost her mate
She had to give away her kits
She lost her son
She was almost killed by her kits(not sure)
She lost spotted leaf
She was betrayed by tigerclaw
She felt had dementia
She died saving firestar
Yet u think people see her in rose tinted glasses? I am sorry if I offended you and I agree She might be a bit overrated but she had a bad life
@@princess_lilly_ytThat... Doesn't really have to do anything with how the fandom views her or with her leadership skills...
@@-primrose- yes it does have to do something with how the fandom views her she is loved because she had such a terrible life but never became evil and this person thinks dementia is same as adhd
Ahh i love this video :D
You should do a ranking leaders list for the other clan! (Skyclan, Riverclan, Shadowclan, WindClan)
Nice job! Have a nice day
I LOVE YOUR VIDS SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bluestar before forest of secrets:
😊
Bluestar after forest of secrets:😩🥲😭🥺😰😥😓😨😵💫😵🤕
We. Need. IVYSTAR.
oh wow! Lion blaze being deputy is boring and expected. IVYPOOL WOULD BE BETTER!!!
Ivypool is already officially deputy
@@BotanRice i totally agree ewww lionblaze
@@taeko3508what!? Not on wiki!
@@You_can_vent_to_this_weirdo Weird
She becomes deputy in the beguining of the new book
*sees my three favorite leaders on top, in the order I would've put them*
Aw, HELL YEAH!
Please ranking WindClan leaders
Cool!
I agree with a lot of the comments here that you’re being a little unfair towards Pinestar. Though admittedly I think of him as more of a ultimately good guy in a tough spot but not necessarily a good leader cause those can be separated
I wish Bluestar was higher. But I agree, Most of her time as leader was Not believing in starclan or Putting the weight on Fireheart. But still, she went through so much that caused her to not Reach the best she could.
True she was a good leader other then that and calling brightheart lost face
@@Lemon_is_vibing true, But (I haven't read many of the books) maybe she was A bit depressed at the time and wasn't thinking well.
@@SpringLocketi think she just called her that because she lost half of her face
@@Lemon_is_vibing true
I really appreciate that the older leaders were a bit harsher. Sure, some of them made a few questionable decisions, like oakstar, but it makes a lot of sense considering the culture in the Clans at that time, and I think it's awesome that that stays consistent
Hi I love your videos
You know, I never realized that what thornclaw was trying to say about one family ruling ThunderClan was true also for Brambleclaw as it was for squirrelflight.. I mean, his grandfather and great-grandfather and whatnot. If anyone has more of a claim to ThunderClan leadership in the way thornclaw was describing, it was definitely Brambleclaw.😮
Yes, drag the Oakstar line into the mud! Oakstar's my least favorite character, and I'm not fond of most of his descendants except for Mothwing and Hawkfrost. I'm just really sick and tired of people defending his actions. He LITERALLY broke the warrior's code and, with that single rule break, caused for Mapleshade to gain power in the dark forest! In all honesty, if he hadn't banished her, at least during a flood, there's a good chance the dark forest arc would have been much different
We are here❤
POV: You've been subbed to Akira for a bit now only now realizing you didn't have notifications on. TuT
SquirrelFlight’s hope is a very weird case It honestly feels like someone’s useless book an opportunity to beat down on the character. And while I would like to ignore it and make a joke about it being the worst book of all time the three probably could’ve worked if it was part of the broken code comprising of the first two books or even one of the first three books
I’ve never agreed more in my life😂
I think Warrior Cats is suffering from Guardians of Ga'Hoole syndrome. Squirrelstar being old, Soren was also very old when he became leader of the Ga'Hoole tree. And also Firestar is the equivalent of King Arthur.
I’m painfully aware squirrelflight is nearly ten years old, yet I can’t imagine her being an old lady.
Not sure what exactly you mean aboud this syndrome, but as far as Warriors go, I think cats live longer now cause around the lake there aren't any big Twolegplace or any Thunderpath, so the air isn't polluted; also they fight less, aside from direct deaths caused by battles every wound diminishes health a little.
Now come to think of it Oakstar and Tigerstar have something in common both dislike of half clan cats since Tigerclaw/star has some of his grandfather Oakstar in heritage
reason one Tigerstar tells Stonefur to kill both Featherpaw and Stormpaw because there half clan and to prove, he’s loyal to the clan but Stonefur refuses in the process he gets killed. That’s just my thoughts
And stormpaw, featherpaw, stonefur and mistyfoot are appledusk's descents (he was oakheart and crookedstar's great-grandpa)
@@ines0499 and it seems like history is just repeating itself
Not sure if his heritage has anything to do with it, that way of thinking was pretty commonplace amongst the clans to begin with. If anything it's thistleclaw, who albeit tigerstar is technically related to, who's responsible moreso than anything else.
@@TheAshfurApologist we are just looking at the parallelism (accidental)
@@ines0499 understood, and i would agree if tigerstar actually knew or even acknowledged who oakstar even was. Never like the idea of characters doing or thinking a certain way just because their related to someone, especially in Warriors, where it's a played out trope, and quite irrelevant considering most characters are related to each to begin with.
First season is goated
i wanna remind everyone that pinestar was hassled constantly by starclan to murder his own son while he was newborn and shown visions of his future. He left because he couldn't bring himself to kill his baby
Why is doe star so cute-
Yet I’ve never heard of her 😂
Doe star was leader before pinestar in goosefeathers curse :)
Good job, Akira, and this is my first time commenting on your videos
Early gang
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I love your videos, its crazy to think that there were only 10 leaders throughout thunderclan.
Who loves Akira's videos
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There weren’t only 10, these are just the 10 who have actual stuff going on in the books, there’s also Owlstar, vinestar etc check the wiki if you’re curious (I mean going on as leaders, obviously Owl Eyes (Owlstar) has a lot going on pre leadership)
@@spectacularslowpoke6018oh okay
Sunstar, Bluestar, Firestar, and Squirrelstar are actually the only leaders that were causing
:GOOD DRAMA: unlike the other leaders that started drama that lead to more drama
eventually making them terrible and rude leaders. (EDIT: didn’t mean to add a ‘a’ smacked in there)
I use firestar's godly legendary name as a term to discribe the absolute undeniable unwavering pinicale of purr-fection
How do u submit art for art challenges? (I want to submit for future vids like oc ones)
Tbh, Bluestar deserves a better rank. Yeah she isn’t the best, but she is pretty good to me. I mean, she did use her what, last…life…to save fireheart from the dogs even when she still wasn’t very well at the moment. She should be in top three!
I mean, yeah, Bluestar did ultimately sacrifice her life to save Fireheart, but that was after presumed literal months of doing nothing as leader other than screeching at other clans at gatherings, screeching at Fireheart, and screeching at her own clan. Her refusal to do anything at all led to Swiftpaw's death and Brightpaw's disfigurement, because they wanted to prove themselves due to Bluestar refusing to make any apprentice a warrior whose name wasn't Cloudpaw. Hell, she began to sound like a conspiracy theorist when dogs started being scented in Thunderclan, and she instead dropped the blame onto Windclan. Sure, before Tigerclaw being exiled she was pretty good and pretty reasonable, but afterwards her character devolved to the point that I just couldn't see her as a good leader, or even a good person. The moment Tigerclaw walked out of camp for the last time, Fireheart essentially became leader but with less power, as he was the one running literally everything afterwards.
I agree. And she was a very good leader up until she developed dementia after Tigerclaw's betrayal
@@launacyko4523 I don't think she had dementia, but she did had shellshock from the moment when Tigerclaw tried to kill her. I guess you could say after that we see another side of Bluestar we never seen before. Like Tigerclaw's betrayal is something of a nasty shock, and that is beyond uncommon.
@@merafirewing6591It is official (well, not stated in the books, because kitty cats don't know what it is) that she had dementia.
(Edit: typo)
These rankings are far too biased to cats on a personal level. Bluestar may not be that good morally, but she sacrificed everything for the good of her clan. Those are good leadership qualities.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAS SLAY FIRESTARRRRRRR❤❤❤
super glad squirrelstar finally became leader
I’m disgusted she became leader!
@@FantasticFawnleapshe should be leader because she’s better suited to be leader
Bramblestar should atleast be third or fourth because Doestar was about to starve her clan, but not on purpose. Bluestar went crazy at the end of her leadership and killed her self off in a good way with the dogs. Squirrelstar is just a sassy, arrogant, and dumb jerk. all she did was fufill her role as deputy when imposter took over Bramblestar. The only flaw I see in Bramblestar's leadership is during Squirrelflight's hope but Squirrelflight was just challenging Bramblestar over and over and pressuring him to do something. Basically trying to act like leader already. I feel Bramblestar should have had a bit more time to lead Thunderclan through the Starlessclan arc.
Bramblestar never listened to his mate and deputy and was abusing her. He was a complete spineless moron since the second arc and should have never been made deputy. Squirrelstar actually upholds her morals while Bramblestar will gladly attack and kill a pregnant woman. In Squirrelflight’s Hope it was Squirrelflight trying to do the best she can even though she was under an abusive, moronic, spineless coward in Bramblestar. He was also arrogant and a jerk. In the second arc before being named deputy his own clanmates disliked how arrogant and how much of a jerk he was. Squirrelflight was demonized by Brambleclaw’s perspective but the thing is that she was always better liked by her clanmates not because of heritage but because she wasn’t a narrow minded jerk.
Honestly i think bluestar was a great leader but at the time of the tigerclaw/star she was really shocked but im glad she redeemed herself and gave her lost life to save fireheart and her clan from the dogs
was there a leader in between thunderstar and redstar? when skyclan leaves, i doubt that they were only there for one two thunderclan leaders but i haven't read the books about the earlier clans so idk
Oakstar single-handedly caused all the villains.
Oakstar - Mapleshade
Mapleshade - Tigerstar
Tigerstar - Scourge and Hawkfrost
Hawkfrost - Helped Ashfur's decent into madness
True,true
Ranking thunder clan leaders already
The thing about Bramblestar is that he said her idea MAY be right after the meeting in SqH but then she gets defensive over her idea of wanting to help Skyclan (who has no intention of wanting to move) and then quickly changes the topic to kits. She also does a dangerous thing of changing her mind in a meeting of how land is being wasted and that's why Bramblestar gets so angry at her- not because she came up with the idea but she CHANGED her mind in front of everyone
It was Bramblestar who kept brining up kits and belittling Squirrelflight’s ideas making her anxious and tying to appease her abusive mate.
doestar my underrated and underdeveloped beloved
yes my favorite warrior cat Firestar he is so good I love him rip gone but not forgotten
Why was I only thinking about leaf wraps while watching this video