What if Iran won the Iran-Iraq War?
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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Considering I did a more US politics video last week with the Iraq one, I decided to go with a focus on an (extreme) outcome on the ground here. Hope you enjoy!
Love the video! It demonstrates how easily the middle east could've gone off the rails in the period
IRAN NUMBER 1
I LOVE IRAN 🇮🇷 ❤
BEST VIDEO EVER!1!!
keep it up man
I love your videos ❤❤❤❤
5:32 Reagan won in 1980, not in 1982.
What if Maria Theresa and Frederick the Great married, uniting the Habsburg and Hohenzollern dynasties and giving the Habsburgs about 150 years of MUCH better leadership
Heresy of the highest order. That would require Fredrick to not be gay which defined a large amount of how he was raised. (also that means no Joseph the second)
How do I say this…
@@hmm8454I never said they’d be in love lol. Was he at bare minimum bi? Absolutely. Probably gay? Yeah. I just find it an interesting what if lol
Wasnt fred gay?
@@TherealMatthias1998 have children anyway you dont need to enjoy it since he was a royal and all
What if James bissonnet intervened in the war
Wrong chanel bud😂
Bro got channels wrong 😅😅
Possible history and history matters crossover when?
Depends on which side he funded
Well that would of course bring in Kelly Moneymaker, which would of course have major ripples across...
Alternate title: Iran Won
😅😅😅
Uhh, watching the video, it seems more of "bin Laden won" cause everything is worst in this timeline
considering that Iran was fighting the entire west and saudi money lol
Yeah, probably, past tense specifically
Lol I understand this joke
What if the Taliban handed over Bin Laden after 9/11?
This.
That would have been one hell of a suprise for sure.
@@BigScreamingBaby
"What now Mr president the Taliban are handing him over "
George Bush: "Idk I didn't think I'd get this far "
This is absurd, specifically because he's Saudi, but it might be possible that he doesn't get to Afghanistan.
But at the same time, what's the point? Other groups are gonna get to the middle east and else, and the us probably would keep the Taliban as it was the us that helped them get to power.
@@jamesk5541I think he probably would say word for word "idk I didn't think we'd get this far"
What if Norway won the Iran-Iraq War?
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
Yesssss
this would be cool if he also did one for Denmark since they had so many chances to control large areas of Scandinavia even Britain but kept losing it
As long as you keep the bubonic plague from doing too much harm, Norway will become the greatest power in scandinavia. They were at their zenith right before the plague hit and likely could have gotten even stronger
Depends, what were Norway's goals in the war? It might lead to one of these timelines or our timeline
🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴
Iirc, in our timeline Iran almost invaded Taliban controlled Afghanistan. It would be interesting to see how this scenario would go
Wait, when? Are you talking about last year or so? Cause the Taliban is the legitimate government of Afghanistan since the us helped take over
@@minestar2247I think he is talking about the
1998 killing of Iranian diplomats in Afghanistan.
Basically Iranian diplomats and journalists were killed by the Taliban, and this nearly started a war between them and Iran.
iran would never invade afghanistan. you should read u s congress notes on iran's involvement with taliban and why taliban are in iran right now retraining lol
**sees the thumbnail** That sure doesn’t look like they won 😭
Yeah, and in the video they lost even harder
Winning a war doesn't mean you win the response to winning the war.
Here are some things that could help produce an Iranian victory over Iraq:
1. If the superpower’s didn’t support Iraq due to Saddam’s genocide of the Kurds occurring earlier
2. If Iran didn’t purge their competent military
3. If the Israeli bombing of the Iraqi nuclear facility created a second front against Iraq
4. Iran didn’t take hostages during the Revolution to have a less hostile, but still bad relationship with the US
5. The Arab states that supported Iraq outright say it’s a loan and Saddam will have to pay back immediately, which further fractions Saddam’s relationship with the Arab world
6. Britain, to avenge the SAS soldiers who died during the Iranian embassy siege, starts supporting Iran
About second point. I have a strong suspicion that if they didn't purge the military leaders, an anti-islamistic military coup would be imminent with possibility of the military actually accepting Saddam's demands as they were more interested in the restoration of monarchist pro-American regime rather than fighting the pointless war with Iraq (they don't need anything from Iraq, especially if Iraq is being a pro-American state)
Most of the are unrealistic, like, israel intervening would cause support to go to whoever is at war with them(and they have no goal in having either win the war).
And Iran not taking hostages is dumb, like, why wouldn't you take the hostages?
And the Arab states would have made it a loan anyway, but only if Iraq won
Also, I don't think the west would care about the Kurds if the got deleted by Iraq before the war, they don't care when it happens most of the time
As an iranian Azeri turk I have to say that there is a lot wrong with this scenario. Different ethnic groups in this country mostly consider themselves as Iranians and then their ethnicity.
There are some exceptions but in my life I haven't seen any separatist Azeri in my life and we are the largest minority group in the country.
Separatism usually occurs in countries where one ethnic group has the almost total dominance over other ethnicities like the Kurds in Iraq in Saddam's time, but here everyone can have any position of power and always could in history regardless of their ethnicity.
We might not like our current government but we definitely do not want a fractured Iran.
I have actually been wondering if there is a movement to unify all Azerbaijanis. From what I can read, this doesn't seem to be the case. At least, not in Iran. Am I right about this?
America doesnt care, they just want to destroy Iran, and Iran eould be in a worse state that independent states
In Iran Azeris aren't discriminated against because it's a Shia theocracy and Azeris are Shia too. For Kurds tho there absolutely is seperatism in Iran because not only are Kurds a minority ethnicity they're also Sunni not shia which the Iranian government discriminates against them for@@weepingscorpion8739
But the us would want to fracture Iran, which means that the us would do it anyways just because. And I wonder, how's Iran at this time of the year? Good weather? Not too much fracturing?
Kurds in Iraq during Sadam's times? Are you kidding me?
I find it really interesting how Shia Islam has been concentrated in small pockets within the larger Sunni world; Iraq, Azerbaijan, Qatar, and Iran as the major pockets within the larger Sunni space. And then there's Oman with the Ibadi branch dominating the landscape in relative peace.
Qatar is not Shia. You may be thinking of Bahrain?
Only reason Sunnis so drastically outnumber Shias is that the Shias were locked out of colonizing the Indian subcontinent and Indonesia, the most lush and fertile parts of the Muslim world, in the 1500s. Factor those countries out and you get Shias as a fifth of the global Muslim population, mostly located in what is by no means a "small pocket" in Iran and its neighbors.
And if you keep Egypt under Shia rule after the Fatimids, that bumps them up to a quarter or more, especially if they start influencing neighboring areas.
bahrain?
@@lempereurcremeux3493 what do you mean locked out of? Shias were actually way closer to India for like 500 years but they took too long then the turks converted to islam
Idea: What if Serbia won Yugoslav wars?
Would likely just be a mildly salvaged yugoslavia-ish state without croatia or slovenia
Depends on how, if you cancel the Yugoslav wars altogether by making Yugoslavia a federation after tito's death, it wouldn't count as Serbia specifically winning.
But if you make Serbia win by making a seen ethnostate(like the b g that happened at the time) that would be worst for everyone
@@minestar2247 ''worst''
@@redcrown5154 so you are saying the non Serbs of Yugoslavia should be all killed? That it would be better if they didn't continue living?
Every westernoid you mean@@minestar2247
the Cheney Caliphate rises…
What's that? And I don't think so, cause Iran doesn't count as a caliphate
@@minestar2247 Even then Religion prevents Iran from even trying to call itself a Caliphate.
@@minestar2247 Its a joke...
@@strangehermitman7898 i don't know the reference, and don't get jokes
I get the joke but i’d like to point out that shiites don’t accept any caliph other than imam ali and his descendants
Good hell, those internal and external borders make the viewer polls look tame.
Happy good friday! Thanks For this 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️
Hey there - you mentioned that Carter would be blamed for the fall of Iraq in this timeline, but that would’ve come squarely during the Reagan administration in this timeline. The election of Reagan over Carter happened in 1980 with Reagan inaugurated in January 1981.
Oh, that might be good cause it would lead to regonomics to be dead
You should do more videos where the turning point has something to do with a nations internal politics
7:33 “I have quite literally zero faith that America can manage this alternate Middle East.”
So fucking real.
It would bankrupt the U.S 💀💀💀
What if America returned to isolationism after WW2? Not getting involved in Vietnam and Korea.
What if the Bronze Age collapse never happened?
What if the Aztecs invaded Russia
Iraqi victory - The Middle Eastern proxy war becomes a three-way cold war between Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, with the US playing on all sides
Iranian victory - Complete and utter chaos in the Middle East by 2010
Truly a middle east momment
What if a Kurdish state was made in the aftermath of WW1?
Just thought it as a good idea
A Kurdish state was made wasn’t it? It was probably a French mandate but it was made. It just got obliterated by Ataturk
@@MD.Akib_Al_Azad i mean like one which continued onto ww2, cold war etc etc
Bro, you channel is good! I hope you wont fall to politics like many other alt history youtubers. (Monsieur Z, Whatifalthist)
He himself said that regardless of a person's ideology, they should not be prevented from making this type of video.
Yes kind of a lefty, and history is inherently political, but this channel doesn't seem to fall into that many biases
@@minestar2247Kind of a lefty? You don't even know what youre talking about
What if everything went perfect for the Soviet Union?
They did that in their Soviet cold was victory scenario
Great Video
Great video.
Yay part 2
That thumbnail is glorious.
If you're doing nore modern scenarios I wonder if you're going to make a video about a Serbian victory in the Yugoslav Wars.
Hey PH are you planning on finishing the every empires series?
I don't understand why you seem to think in both these videos thay the Soviet-Iranian relationship was so horrible that the USSR would even contemplate invading Iran, when in reality the USSR was lukewarm occasionally to the regime.
Also, no, a strengthened Iran wouldn't just be fully conquered by America. A complete conquest of Afghanistan was just not possible, with the Taliban forever present in the north. Iran is deserts, mountains and even rainforests, has a more competent military, would have an even better military had they just won and not grinded down in trenches for eight years and have a far larger population than Afghanistan. And that's not even counting the necessity to also defeat Syria, Iraq and Houthis. How? Just how?
This channel usually creates pretty unrealistic scenarios. He usually doesn’t care much about realism but more about views from the western “history buffs”.
Also, who tf came for Balkanized Iran?
Great video.
Please make a video about 1953 coup of Iran.
Yeah, if that one didn t happen, the middle east would probably be way better
@@minestar2247not necessarily . Khomieni wanted to establish an islamic republic nontheless . In fact the revolution might have happened even earlier ( although it won’t be as much of a revolution as it is a bunch of reforms over a relatively small timespan ( also they did a referendum after thev revolution in iran won and 98% of the people approved ))
@@U.K.N Huh, it would still be better anyways, maybe those reforms, being less extreme than other examples, might show example
In this timeline I doubt armenia would be around at least by our time and the less stable middle east would have the turks be the biggest rivals to the saudis. As their neo ottoman ambitions develop earlyier and with more success.
Heh, yeah, they're surrounded and undefended, so you're probably right
They are part of the csto though
@@kianabbsi russia would be in active decline at the time this would happen and be busy with domestic affairs. And probably supporting other groups in the middle east. Mind you in this timeline with a 30M population azerbaijani state and a proactive turkey that has a defense pact outside of NATO russia even putting in all it's resources can't risk a war. Especially with Turkey. They could give some support but it would be a lost cause. The fact is that Armenia has no allies. They aren't in the west's spehere, Iran is in ruins, the USA is isolationist, China dosen't have enough power projection at this point, possibly the French could get involved in aid but that assumes Armenia holds out for more than a few weeks.
CSTO membership is worthless when Russia won't act. Armenia is seeing that fact now that Azerbaijan was recently allowed to fuck with them again.
Russia can barely be bothered to "protect" Armenia as is. A scenario like this one is game over for them.
I like the very grounded videos, even if this one went a little too far into the future
hey possible history, what platform do you use to draw your maps?
Idea: What if Hitler uses the third impact to achieve Lebensraum
Basically the third impact is something from Evangelion an Anime and yes this is meant to be a joke idea and the third impact is a world ending event and you don't haveto do it just a joke idea
I love ur vids
Yess you make it!!!!
What if Austria joined Germany in 1871?
Why is there a little dot in Afghanistan
The U.S. was highly unlikely to allow either power to “win”. Unless you mean win by keeping their borders but Iran annexing Iraq is highly unlikely. America is in a similar position of the British before the world war wars wanting to simply maintain the current balance of power because we are currently at the top. The world wars were mostly over maintaining the balances of power from the British prospective they did not want Germany or Japan to get to powerful to challenge their global position.
idea, what if the shah wasnt overthrown in Iran
I’ve divided the story into parts so that you can better understand it :
1-It almost happened , the day before the proclamation of the islamic state , the shah forbode everybody to get out of his house ( and anybody who did so was gonna be killed by the savak ( the shahist police ))
2- and almost all of the leaders often the revolution agreed on not telling people to go to the streets , except imam ruhollah khomiemi
3- he didn’t agree nor disagree , instead he went into his room for some 30 minutes , then came back and told them to tell people to go to the streets , everybody exclaimed , but he told them : “ i am ordered “ ( don’t worry he didn’t ask an 8 ball , it was most likely that imam al mahdi told him in some way or another ) .
4-Later it turns out that the shah planned on killing the revolutionary leaders that night ( also tens of thousands died that night , so it wasn’t without a cost )
a middle east that's a lot safer that's for sure.
no Islamic Iran = no reason for the US to get into the middle east, no goliath for Israel to stand against (in the 2000s) and no one to really play power games with.
Saudi is in the US sphere and non Islamic Iran, Turkey and Israel would be generally aliened together to the US as the three none Arab middle east nations.
in other words the middle east would look a lot like before the Islamic revolution.
That would suck because that Iran Is a us puppet, and stays that way past the cold war
What if Iranian PM Mossadegh wasn't overthrown in a CIA backed coup?
I will guarantee you one thing. Iran would be a regional power economically and military wise. It is because of shah reforms and modernization of defence iran was able to defend against iraq. And iran was under the white revolution. Shah's vision was to make iran a developed country by 90s. Middle East would have been less radicalized and more stable cause you have to remember islamic fundamentalism started in 70s with iran revolution
Y'know, this offered up a third scenario: the one mentioned in the Intro: iran begins a slow invasion of iraq, leading to international intervention
Thanks for the correct pronunciation of Iran.
Truly a Dick Cheney moment
That Rick and morty reference is perfect! Love it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Quiet
Can you make a what if ww1 was re-enacted in the modern world video please
Agree Also WW2 But reversed
USA/Germany
Canada/Italy
Britain/Japan
China/Great Britain
Russia/USA
Iran/France
@@KobeRogers-vw8nx he already did a video about if ww2 was re-enacted in the modern day
@@Maxfromohio2155 No Again But the Roles are Reversed where the US is Germany while China Russia and Iran are the allies
@@KobeRogers-vw8nx ok now I understand
@@Maxfromohio2155 yea
*Pours syrup on Middle-East*
"Blows Middle-East with mind."
"My fucking Middle-East."
Is this a reference to something?
Honestly if the US had to go for the trifecta of Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan I'm not convinced this doesn't lead to the US deciding its time to redraw borders, before creating new governments.
What if India won the 1962 war against China?
What if Mosaddegh wasn't overthrown?
The better timeline
As an Iranian living in khuzestan province; I would never let anyone separating us from our country.
As a Iranian Lur love you bro and we Iranian people if Arabs, Kurds, Azeri, Fars, Baloch, Gilak, Turkaman, Talish, Lak, Pashtun are always united in hard days agints enemies we showed our unithy many times and we will show it in futur if it necessary again. It is very realistic that we think the enemmis of Iran israel and usa and their poppets in the region have such a nasty plane for my our country, but we Iranian alway are united and never let anyone hurts us and our beutiful peacful country, zende bad bar shoma va Javid va payande Iran azziz. Nouroz tabrik bar shoma Zende bad Iran for ever, Viva Iran ✊💚🤍❤,
@@orionclouds3741not the Arabs Arabs the iranien ones
Video idea: What if the tanzimat reforms were successful?
Oh, what were the tanzimat reforms?
@@minestar2247 In simple terms, an attempt to modernize the ottoman empire in the mid 1800s with a list of attempted reforms such as healthcare, education, military, etc.
The reforms failed due to the failure to modernize technologically in which by then it was sort of too late to catch up to the europeans.
@@minestar2247 Proposed reforms of the ottoman empire
@@willie4445 ok, this sounds pretty interesting, I would like to see what would happen if they were successful, or if the reforms in my own country were too
What if South Korea won the Korean War?
and
What if North Korea won the Korean War?
Plzzzzzzzz do final empire video part
do “What if Yugoslavia never collapsed?” you can talk about their impact on the world and what they would change. for example their arsenal
It wouldn't have changed very much
@@Fella12366 how, like wdym
@@vainoue9173 like it wouldn't have effected global politics very much
@@Fella12366 they were influential in the third world especially, and would have likely somewhat altered the landscape of Europe + other civil wars. the thing is it’s not comically exasperated by their existence which make sense but tbh it’s an interesting topic
@@Fella12366would have major consequentes In russia and nato
Cool War Scenario at 09:32
When you found out about cool war and have short episode of hiper interest.
Both these videos are fun and insane at the same time, it's like:
-what if Iraq won?:similar timeline, or less us involvement(if Iraq can be resonable) leading to less us involvement and a cold war between Iran Iraq and Saudi Arabia
What if Iran wins the war?:kaboom? Yes ricko, kaboom. 🔥🔥 This is fine 🔥🔥
Video idea: What if Bavaria United Germany
May be, Anschluss would had happen earlier, but, Germans would be not really interested in holding and conquering lands near Baltic sea.
This is a bit different but maybe a video on what if the EU federalized today and what it would mean for the future?
Please do a "What if Everything went perfect for The Philippines?" video
What if South Africa still had nukes?
Great video that contrasts the Iraq video, but I very much doubt the U.S. can conquer Iran-proper due to the geography of the region.
It took the soviets and the British 6 days using a couple tanks, half a dozen boats and 50,000 troops in 1941.
I very much doubt Iran could survive a full-scale war with the United States
Yeah, it would take them an extremely long time to do that, so it would make reconstruction way harder, as they might not even try
@@minestar2247Invading iran is more like invading Vietnam rather than Afghanistan
So huh... That seems like an interesting alternative 2000s, never seen this idea before
Now please consider making a "What if 1979 revolution didn't happen" video.
Oh dear god, the Thumbnail says it all.
This timeline would definitely lead to more instability in neighboring countries such as pakistam
I love how the Iraqi victory’s thumbnail is nothing too chaotic but this video’s thumbnail is the definition of a shitshow
Yeah this video’s thumbnail looks like a meme
What if the hundred days reform succeeded? How would this affect ww1 and other events such as the 21 demands, etc?
what is the piano music used at 7:20?
Invading Iran back then would be very hard for US to pull off because of the country's fortress like geography and population support for the government which was way more back then. Even secular and moderates would fight against america because they supported the Reformist Khatami administration, they wanted better relations with US and even israel. Also there wasn't any major divide between ethnicities, though the government has always kept the baluchistan very poor and that led to the formation of some baluchi independance terrorist groups.
Overall, US would face a much bigger catastrophe and the region would remain hostile to US forever. But currently, things are the exact opposite. The majority of Iranians hate their government and are just waiting for a spark. If america continues to destory Iran's economy and not let them sell any oils, the Islamic regime will certainly collapse in the next 3-4 years. Unfortunately every global and regional power will interfere for their own interests and that can turn the country into the next Libya or Syria, but if things go relatively smooth and the next government handles recovering from crises well, and focuses on economic developement, considering Iran's population, geography and resources they can become one of the next global economic superpowers.
It took the soviets and the British 6 days using a couple tanks, half a dozen boats and 50,000 troops in 1941.
I very much doubt Iran could survive a full-scale war with the United States
Some suggestions:
What if Turkey joined Axis?
What if USSR was way aggressive after WW2?
What if USA went to isolation again after WW2
What if the 1926 Miners Strike reached a boiling point and caused Britain to go through their own "Russian Revolution"?
With Scotland & Wales gaining independence in the chaos, and Northern Ireland reunifies with the rest of the country.
Is an encirclement possible in mountainous terrain?
0:22 for future times you use this map, please fix the white dot just north of kuwait, the one connected to iraq
Nah you tripping
@@BlackOutWise Nuh uh, you're blind. It's like 1 pixel bro, VERY noticeable
(joke)
Screw it, what if the Chinese warlord era never happened? (Yuan Shikai gets 360 noscoped) Or what if everything went perfect for Arabia or China?
I don't think nationbuilding in iran would fail as bad as afghanistan. Afghanistan has every bad charateristic for a successful western styled nation.
Iran is even more diverse than Afghanistan with a ton of separatist movements like the arabs in the Ahwaz, Balochis in balochistan, kurds in Kurdistan and likely the Azeris too it would be a lot worse than afghanistan if it collapses.
@@FNA27601 It's not diversity which killed afghan nationbuilding. It's the peoples mindset. Everytime I've met an iranian person they seemed very western and openminded to me, while afghans just... weren't. Iran is one of the oldest states to exist similiar to china with peoples like the azeris and their ancestors being very loyal to the iranian state since thousands of years. Now compare that to tribal afghanistan with always infighting tribes, see the difference?
@@FNA27601Diversity didn't kill afghan nationbuilding, mindset did. Iranians I met were way more open minded and "western" than afghans. Not only that, Iran is a state which exists for over two thousand years in some shape or form with the azeris and their ancestors, the most important and largest minority, being very loyal to the iranian state to the point that the surpreme leader is azeri himself. Compare that to tribal afghanistan with frequent infighting and a decentralised state throughout history. Look at the chinese warlord period and the subsequent reunion, that's how an iranian collapse would look like WITHOUT western help of nationbuilding.
And the US military needs to be competent.
What if Liechtenstein became the HRE after the real HRE fell, and bought Alaska and couped Switzerland and Bavaria to annex it to make it more official. and if they make it to it, they'll buy Alaska. (possibly April 1st?)
What if everything went perfect for Iran/Persia? - Day 7
The Achaemenid Empire would still exist and thus Iranians would never convert to Islam and remain Zoroastrian
Can you please do what if Britain alliance to Napoleon
Even for alt-history standards that's grossly out there but the brief reaction of the others would be like this;
Russia: WTF!?!
Spain: HOW!?!
Austria: NO!
Portugal: Traitor!
Netherlands: Thieves!
Prussia: Stop...
Ottamans: Ugh!
Sweden: Tsk!
Denmark: What?
Dutchy of Warsaw: Nice!
USA: Seriously?
Colonies: Help...
Notice how only one gives a straight up positive response?
@@lynxfresh5214
So something crazier
What if Britain and Napoleon's France united into a super country to try to rule the world
No Saddam = No gulf war. Which in your what if Iraq won video you predicted would lead to no George W. Bush (Because Bush Sr was even less popular) and no George W. Bush = no invasion of Iraq (or in this case) Iran
That thumbnail sure doesn't look like they won 😂
What if Kelly moneymaker didn't fund either side and stayed neutral instead.
Wrong channel mate
4:08 Libya would have sided with Iran as they did OTL.
What if Austria joined the Franco-Prussian War?
What If everything went perfect for China 🇨🇳
What if italy united during the middle ages
7.4k 53 minutes. Genius
Hi i am from iran and when the iraq and iran war happend my mom was a little kid and she and her family was in a building for 8 years !
you should make a video about turkey
perfect timing when I looked at likes, it was 911
How are there comments from 5 days ago if this video just came out?
Acredito que seja por conta dos membros
Patreon or something
I have a few questions, if America were to go isolationist, wouldn't the American backed Kurdish region be invaded by Turkey and Azerbaijan? Also, if if we were to divide these nations among ethnic lines what about the Turkmens and Uzbeks in Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.
What if Everything was perfect for Uruguay? 🇺🇾
Would like to see a video on what would happen if the Nguyen Vietnamese more decisively repelled the French in the 1850s
What if the Bojinka Plot happened?
Please write a what if 1953 Ajax didn't happen in Iran
Do a what if history went perfect for Argentina
I would really like to see "What if Apartheid Never Happened"!