Great convo. To add to the Spider-Man being relatable point, I’ve been revisiting the OG Fantastic Four comics via the omnibus which prints the letters section of each issue. Fans really appreciated how the FF had internal arguments and real world problems. It’s seems Marvel characters were just more relatable and redefined what a superhero was.
Hey Gem! Completely agreed; I think relatability is that final ingredient that hooked readers to Marvel's characters. As an aside, love your channel! Thanks for giving us a watch.
Ahh yes, the litteral Norse god Thor. The billionaire genius Iron man. The man with infinite limitless strength Hulk. The sorcerer supreme who can do anything Dr strange.
@@victorq4842 LoL, no one says Marvel doesn't have its powerhouses, Thor is a good one but in general debating if DC vs Marvel DC usually wins because their heroes tend to be stronger, Thor is not portrayed as too strong for 90% of characters to realistically fight, iron man isn't that powerful either, Cap can run the ones with him, hulk has a crippling weakness in that he can't control it which is the major focus of his character and Strange usually deals with threats always on his level unlike say the Flash that shouldn't even have a rogues gallery who aren't speedsters 😮💨
ALWAYS loved Marvel more than DC. Just connected with so many Marvel characters much easier. To be honest, though, my main introduction to Marvel was Transformers and GI Joe back in the day. From there, I went on to the Avengers and X-Men and I really think that it was the X-Men that made me stick. So many memories of those days. Then so many creators that I really enjoyed worked for Marvel at that time, especially artists, that it was cemented for me that I was Marvel first. I like DC as well, but no where near as much as Marvel. As a matter of fact, There was a time that I liked Image more than DC simply for the fact that it was the creators driving the bus in that situation. But, yeah, Marvel for me.
I always think of the catchphrase “The world outside your window” it had real places that people are connected to apparently Ditko would site at his window and imagine Spider-Man bounding over the rooftops he could see as he was drawing the heroes had real world problems and they have grown with us to a point.
@@TheComicsPals It idea Marvel is a reflection of the world he live and its a celebration of our humanity the world of dc is a world very much detached from sentiments of the everyman dc heroes belong to another more innocent time and have not aged well
@@TheComicsPals The fact you say dc a bigger brand until the 2000s. In the 1990s, spiderman and xmen Hulk were almost like Batman and Superman even though it was only those 2 characters that were big, not dc as a whole in terms of recognition.
Marvel is my favorite yes. When I got started into comics when I was little. Marvel was where i started. Spider-Man was what got me into comics. So I delved more into Marvel when I was little and fell in love with characters like F4, Iron Man, Daredevil, Thor etc... As for the comic world. I feel like Marvel is more relatable for people. And I think Disney owning the IP gives Marvel a bigger notice compared to DC. I cant really say why Marvel would be popular over what you all always covered.
In the 70s what pushed Marvel over was there was one version on one earth and that guy was a snarky spider teen, a green rage monster and a rocky guy with a temper. Easier and more like then current teens, no perfect heroes
@@TheComicsPals Also a adiantum really 1980s and 1990s, xmen and Spiderman started to overtake the market all these it was Batman being popular and Superman, not DC as a brand, do you agree?
Spider-Man being in NYC helped a whole lot. If you think about what NYC is and especially what/how it is/was perceived by so many different citizens of this world. No different than in hip-hop - if you're from certain places you can go platinum in your backyard. And if you are from far away you see stories in a city that back then had way more skyscrapers and urban trains than the rest of the world. In a way Spider-Man to some might as well come from a fictional world so many people wished they could get to. And Spider-Man is there swinging everyday, saving the day. Kirby created 1,000's if not 10,000's of thousands of ideas "at one time" and that helps a lot.
To me, outside of a few characters (really just Nightwing and Green Arrow), DC comics have always made me feel like I'm reading something about gods trying to play human. They have grandiose powers or "prep time" and these little macguffin weaknesses that are exploited to bring about their failures. On the Marvel side of things, no matter who I read (even if I'm reading for a villain), it feels like I'm watching people trying to unsuccessfully play gods. From super powerful characters like Silver Surfer to "normal" characters like Daredevil, I always feel like they will fail or succeed based on who they are rather than what they can do. I know DC has stories where they've done the same, but everything with DC just feels hyperbolic: space, Metropolis, Gotham, Star City; Marvel, even in their cosmos, feels more toned down. I can't explain it any better than that, but for me Marvel will always have that over DC.
You're right tho, Marvel's sucess comes from the fact that they put on an effort to make everything relatable, FF and Spidey being the clearest examples, FF's concept is "a FAMILY of super-heroes", and spidey's is "a TEENAGER trying his best to be a hero with and without a suit". And then there's the real-life factor, most of Marvel's characters live in real places, even Doctor Strange lives in New York, so you can clearly see the difference. I also think this is the reason why the Teen Titans, Static and Blue Beetle were so damn popular back in the 00's, because they have fundamental flaws, or realistic concepts at their core, like Raven being someone who's judged because of her family's reputation, and who wants to "break the cycle", but has a hard time doing so since she was affected by it since childhood, it's relatable, and so it works
Very well said. That sums up my own views on the matter fairly well. I identified much more with Spider-Man struggling to pay his rent while doing his best to save lives much more than Superman being this unbelievably god-like being who's only real struggle in life was... ... Hoping people didn't recognize him as Clark Kent? Raised by a relatively well-off upper-middle class farming family, landed his job as a journalist before he even moved to Metropolis, and the only thing he had problems with was an extremely rare green rock. Or Batman, with his "Oh, I'm a sad billionaire who's parents died and I had to be raised by my butler in a mansion! Boo hoo, woe is me. Just gonna blow my nose on this wad of $100 bills." I just can't identify with DC heroes the same way I can with Marvel heroes. DC has certainly gotten better in recent years, but they can't really shed a lot of that old baggage from the early days. But then with Marvel, you've got like the X-Men who popped up back in the 60s and their whole deal was suffering and dealing with real-world issues of racism and bigotry. They didn't have a "kryptonite", they just got the crap beat out of them by villains who were flat out stronger than them and had to find a way to overcome that.
@famousthaneus9810 Man, that pretty much perfectly sums up the biggest difference between the two universes and the reason I have never been able to get behind or find something DC to like and draw me in whether it was Comics, Shows, Movies or Games. Marvel gives you the entire universe and says, "Here are street level characters or cosmic type being or gods you can love regardless because they are grounded or simply will give you an adventure or a true fantasy you can delve into headlong." For example, I'm sure it's no surprise by my name, but Thor is my all-time favorite character for the fact he is a warrior god and has godly adventures not being tied down to earth which would be dumb if he were. Thor was shown how to be humble and relate to humans instead of standing above them just because he had the power to do so. Thor is a god, yes, but we get to see him go through things, struggle, be tested, love, and lose, but most importantly, continue learning and growing for the benefit of earth and his people (which by the way he would do anything for unlike Superman). Thor is someone that although he is a god, you can still relate to or love for all he is and will become or simply for the stories, adventures, fantasy, or perspective. (To explain that Superman bit a little further. The way I see Superman is a godlike alien playing human, never taking his people side even if they are desperate and can use some much needed help and guidance, he simply choose Earth over all else (and Lois lol) but it makes him stale with no true depth, fantasy, adventure or perspective you can truly get behind because unlike Thor, you don't get to travel the stars or go through these godly battles or struggles to keep your people safe. Being tied to Earth all the time for someone who is a so-called "god" amongst men, I just don't get it.) Sorry, my little rant 😅
My first comic (Howard the Duck #4) was from Marvel. My Mom bought it for me at a newsstand on the West Side of Chicago. I was a child of the 70s and Marvel was on fire back then creatively. DC was good to me back then too, but Marvel was more relatable. I loved Batman, Swamp Thing, the Spectre, Creeper, OMAC, Flash, and a lot of the more offbeat characters DC had to offer, but comics like Spider-Man, Luke Cage, X-Men, the Hulk, Captain America, Daredevil grabbed me more.
I lived through Dolph Lungrend Punisher, 1990s captain america, lou frigno Hulk vs Thor and the nber was fantastic four. At that stage, just having them on the screen was a start. They werent great but 1999 Xmen swung the pendulium, spiderman came. Dark Knight overshadowed iron man and while Dark knight rises was meant to be the hot of the year, this crazy emmsemble Avengers film took everyone by surprise.
How Marvel created a universe onto itself with mutants fighting for civil rights, and a superhero family that time travels, and normal people becoming hero’s by accident and constantly learning what it means to have such powers, the complex relationships wether romantic or work related etc. these pockets of groups of people and aliens and cosmic beings and monsters and witches with their own unique realities and still are able to connect somehow and work together at times. Not to mention the villains with an actual personality and cause. It’s a lot going on but it’s woven together telling an even bigger story. A big fascinating story. DC just haven’t been able to pull it off. Plus the constant reboots don’t help. Superman’s resurrection after his extremely published death was a betrayal that people are still not over.
In online comics communities I feel it is way more common to find somebody who only reads marvel comics than a strictly dc reader and I have no idea why
The online communities I’ve found tend to be more DC focused. I know Comicstorian (RIP Benny) always focused more on DC because those videos did far better than Marvel videos. I don’t understand it, but I’ve always kinda assumed it was because Marvel has a much broader appeal, but DC has a more passionate, loyal fan base. I have no evidence for that, of course, but i can’t think of a Marvel fan base as vocal as, say, Flash fans, for example.
I've typically found the opposite to be true. Most Marvel fans I've met in my life are like "Oh yeah, I like that DC story. I like that DC hero. This or that thing they did was pretty cool." while most of the DC fans I've met are borderline rabid in both their defence of DC comics and their disdain for everything Marvel. I've literally had someone scream in my face about "Batman with prep time". Needless to say I never returned to that particular comic store, and it only got that bad the one time. I think that guy needed therapy and medication more than anything else. But, I digress...
It's probably the amount of franchises there are for Marvel vs the amount for DC, especially nowadays. With DC, you can only talk about a dozen or so of superheroes that people truly follow, or spinnofs of said superheroes, whereas with Marvel, you've got Avengers fans, X-Men fans, Defenders fans and all the sub teams in between. The more stories there are from one publisher (Marvel), the less need for people to look at the competition (DC). It's harder the other way around, because people get tired of the same subjects and themes being played over and over on the same limited amount of titles. But still, the fact DC fans usually have the taste for closely related titles, they tend to bond together closer than Marvel fans, which would explain why more DC fans will view any DC video (because of shared interest, opinions, etc), as opposed to Marvel fans who might follow a handful of titles, but might not be interested in all of them.
@@vitreo1363 very eloquently put, I read Spider-Man and daredevil when it comes to marvel maybe a little X-men and f4 but with dc I’ll try just about anything
I’m personally enjoying DC comic books more so lately. That said, if I want to fill a DC void then the comics are the only place I can go to fill that void. Marvel currently has a lot more outlets for me to explore (movies, games, etc). As for popularity, let’s be honest here, the MCU movies play a massive massive role.
DC has the Cartoons and Games in their pockets Games: Lego batman Arkham series Injustice and some less known games like superman shadow of apokolips Batman Vengeance death of superman (snes/gen) Cartoons:Batman Tas Superman Tas Justice League Tas/unlimited etc... Not saying Marvel has worse Cartoons and games I'm just saying DC has them too and I'm recommending you some Edit: movie wise I recommend the classic superman movies besides quest for peace and maybe the third, All the batman movies except V superman, aquaman wonder woman and the animated ones like Justice league Doom
@@TherealDCAvenger Sorry I should've clarified, I was referring specifically to new content (new movies, new games). Of course DC has plenty of offer in the past. Once Gunn's DCU gets rolling things will change obviously. As for new games, has there been any new DC games over the last year or so other than the Suicide Squad one? They cancelled DC Legends on mobile. Go into the app store and type in DC games and you'll get Injustice (which is solid) but there's really only a couple other options and they're complete ass (DC Heroes & Villains I'm looking at you). So if I want to fill a DC itch, I basically have to go to the comics or watch stuff from the past.
@@TherealDCAvenger , accept most of DC success comes from Batman in terms of their brand penetration . Is there another franchise outside a group game like Injustice that DC has for its other heroes? Where is the aquaman game? The flash game? The ww game? Outside of Batman, DC simply has flopped the Green Lantern game and suicide squad game, not to mention the failed Superman games. Marvel has multiple games for not just Spiderman but xmen Wolverine, even Ironman, hulk, and Deadpool, and its own games have garnered recognition in terms of variety and brand visibility. Marvel beats DC in games. Cartoons are the only area that DC, even then, 80 per cent of it is Batman-focused.
@@andrewkarns5502 Yes Because Gunn's dcu going to push ahead of 30 + billon dollar franchise Gunn's dcu will around 15 average-level films to beat the mcu that provides the mcu stops making movies? Also
I returned to reading comics this year, I have always only been a DC reader, not for any reason other than I find the characters more interesting, Superman followed by mostly all JSA dark / vertigo characters. However, while waiting for All-In I found my monthly pull being loaded with Ghost Machine books and a few oddballs like Hercules. I loved the Marvel movies when younger (never watched any since end game, again not for any reason) but for some reason, it never converted me to want to check out the comics to this day. Maybe judging sales data though It is something I should consider looking for a character to start with, but with that being said I feel like it's the Indie companies who are capturing my attention these days like Mad Cave who publish Nottingham.
I think it was Chris Sims over at Comics Alliance years and years ago who wrote about what he called the DC problem. Essentially, ever since Fantastic Four #1, DC has desperately wanted to be Marvel. Marvel immediately captured an older audience in the 60s, leaving DC to fight a perception that they made kids comics. And they have been chasing Marvels tail ever since, trying to fight a perception of their characters as less sophisticated. Even when they proved this decisively in the 80s, the culture at DC still had a chip on its shoulder. It’s part of why they eventually embraced all the mature content in the 2010s, to once and for all shed that perception (YMMV on how successful that was). as it relates to this topic, I think the general audience senses that whiff of desperation from DC and Marvel seems so much more effortlessly cool in comparison.
Totally agreed. So many people say that DC Comics makes comics "for adults" while Marvel panders to kids but that perception was the complete opposite when Marvel first took off and for many years after.
I think it has to do with Marvel creating their identity by publishing stories of heroes that weren't perfect. While DC was printing stories of Superman shrugging off bullets and easily thwarting robbers, Marvel's most popular hero was a nerd who got superpowers, selfishly decided to use them for personal gain, and because of his ego, learned a lesson about power and responsibility. That's way more character development in one origin story than any superhero had at the time, which was seen as a more complex and therefore mature story. Likewise with the rich, millionaire war profiteer whose personal experience seeing the real life impact of his weapons caused him to have a change of outlook and decided to use his intelligence and resources to fight evil. It was seen as a more complex characterization, because giving powers to a perfect saint was very cliché in the genre.
@@TheComicsPals I read more Marvel and Indie now. With the constant reboots and dialog heavy writing, the last DC book I read was Wonder Woman #1 by Tom King, previous to that it was Superman Lost. The last true DC book I enjoyed was Sideways, but they canceled that book. Now I am reading Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Spider-Man, I Heart Skull Crusher, Beneath the Trees, Daredevil, and a few other Marvel and Indie titles.
Legion was the original comic book fandom and has been a market competitor with X-Men for a long time, It shame that DC didn't do anything with them after silver age comic
In my opinion the relatablity of Marvel characters is definitely a factor. Characters with everyday problems like Spider-man or characters who struggle with mental illness like Daredevil or characters who are an allegory for minorities like the X-Men are a lot more easier to identify with and relate to. That's not to say characters like Batman and Superman are completely unrelatable I personally relate to Batman a lot because like me he also suffers from trauma. Superman can also be relatable yes he's an overpowered alien but that is only one aspect of his life he is also a reporter at the daily planet, he is also a son with parents to care of, he's now also a father and a husband which I think people can relate to but on a surface level these characters don't seem that relatable to most people. What's unfortunate for DC is that they have really missed the mark with representing these characters outside of comics and that is something which is critical because the general audience doesn't read comics so if you don't get the adaptions right the general audience will have a negative opinion of your characters and your brand. DC has done well with some movies but they haven't been consistent like Marvel which is why Marvel has a lot more goodwill and faith in the eyes of people than DC at the moment. Another thing is that DC has been really poor at making people care about characters other than Batman and Batman related characters. In the comics there is a lot of focus on Batman and there was a lot of Batman in the movies for a long time as well. DC has a lot of characters that could make a lot of money like Zatanna for example but they just don't do enough with them. Marvel on the other hand has been a lot better at pushing a bunch of characters like the Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man and more. Lastly I do think Marvel becoming popular at a time when media was more accessible made a huge difference which is why there are so many marvel fans on social media today.
In my 32 years of Reading Comics the first 11 years was exclusively Marvel with the x-men Titels at that. It was because I grew up in a Marvel only household because my father was the Collector at the time. I really started getting into DC when my girlfriend now Wife bought me a case of DC Heroclix boosters because she knew I lover the Game. So While I knew the big named Characters the minor ones were unknowns to me. I dove fully into DC buying trades and back issues and Fell in love with the DCU. Know it’s more a 50/50 split in my Comic reading.
A key part of this discussion, and what defines Marvel, was Stan Lee's cultivation of brand loyalty. If you bought a handful of DC books, you were a fan of those characters or titles. If you bought a handful of Marvel books, you were a Marvel fan. Stan Lee put that so deep into the Marvel DNA that it follows through to today, especially when we talk about relatability. He didn't only make relatable characters; he made sure you knew that Marvel equals relatability. In the modern age, you could argue Superman is more relatable than Thor or Iron Man, but people instinctively think otherwise because Stan branded them as such. I don't think people really appreciate how he did it. We even use their slogans ("The world outside your window.") when having this conversation. In other words, Stan Lee created an appeal to Marvel, and being a Marvel fan, DC has never replicated. Saying you're a DC fan doesn't have the same level of meaning as saying you're a Marvel fan. I hope that makes sense.
Stands Soapbox, Merry Marvelites, No-Prizes, etc ad infinitum... Stan could teach building brand identity to Coke! Helped that he had the better product in his early days
Relatability has always been an ethos. People didn't just think Marvel is relatable because Stan said so; it's because they saw it on the page. DC has certainly gotten better at it, but while Batman and Superman are busy punching the next glowing multiversal deity in the face, Peter Parker is standing in his apartment trying to figure out how to pay rent. Tony Stark is doing his best trying not to open the liquor cabinet, and Bruce Banner is sitting in a cabin alone missing all the human interaction he has to avoid so as to not hurt people. And even if we don't have those problems, most of us have gone through something similar. DC heroes have problems, but considering they're equated to gods, it's still hard to see yourself in them.
@@vitreo1363 I didn't say it was just because Stan said so. It wouldn't have worked if they hadn't created characters that backed up the hype. Hal Jordan can't get his personal life together because the only thing he's been good at is his job, and he once even failed at that in a major way. Wally West is trying to raise a family that doesn't get swallowed in the craziness of superheroics. Clark Kent has a job with deadlines, work friends, and lives in an apartment with his wife and son. That's to say nothing of all the characters DC's introduced in the last several decades. Relatability is now baked into most heroes, thanks to the standard Marvel set. Iron Man's personal troubles aren't any more humbling than Bruce Wayne's. His alcoholism was a late addition to his character, just like DC's hung new things on their characters. The thing that kept Thor humble, Donald Blake, was taken out of the equation a long time ago. DC's characters are not gods. They weren't even gods back in the early 60s. They were two dimensional power fantasies, and it took them a generation to figure out how to add layers to compete with Marvel. You're defining things the way Stan branded them, which shows just how good at it he was.
As for Sean's question of "where are the Marvel fans in this community?", it might be the case that many of the people who buy Marvel books are more causal fans than those of DC. They could be causal enough to not show up in online communities that are purely dedicated to the books. This might be a symptom of how old DC is with tighter knit and more developed communities, despite their small size. It could also be the case that because of the great diversity of Marvel characters that you guys described Marvel fans are more solitary, with smaller pockets of fandom surrounding the X-men, for example, or how there are so many fans who are solely into the Hulk or Spiderman, people who may or may not explore the rest of the cannon and thus be into a broader community like this one. Those people might show up for individual discussions or videos about the character they like, but then not return for anything else.
I think it has to do with how much we see Marvel on screen, either the Movie Screen, or the TV, with streaming. Even with the flops that have dropped from Marvel lately, it still has a way for people to see the brand and their characters. DC sadly hasnt had the luck to have a great representation of the brand, with failures of movies, tv shows, and so on. Consistency and familiarity is key, when it comes to distributing a product. DC lacks that when it comes to quality. I'm more of a DC fan, and that's mainly because I just enjoy the roster under the DC Umbrella. Marvel is awesome too, but there's just something about The Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman that have this aura of godlike persona's that just leave you in awe, when it's done right. Hopefully, James Gunn is able to show the casual audience how awesome their characters can be, when it has that consistency and familiarity that is slowly built up for years to come. Also, fantastic takes on this topic. Keep up the great work!!
@MrbountyHunterD people especially in the mainstream dont care about dc outside of batman marvel is able to diverse its brand and character portfolio spiderman xmen hulk were already popular since mcu they added the likes of Ironman Cap Thor , Gotg, Black panther etc to have fans in the mainstream something equally reflected characters like moon knight daredevil dr strange having multiple titles, When has dc ever done the same thing in utilizing and pushing its bench of heroes outside the core JLA ? Outside of batman and Superman at a push ww the rest of their heroes simply dont the same broad appeal and marketable both in comics and mainstream. There are more 'Batman fans than there are DC Universe fans, while people who are Marvel fans are usually of the whole universe.
thats the difference marvel caught mass audience dc outside of batman and superman struggles to connect audiences to rest of there characters even if you want go by comics marvel sells more @villakeen
@@TheComicsPals I think you spot marvel have mastered dominance in both comics and movies they won over the reader but also the average joe this something dc simply cannot replicate
its both marvel have mastered the dominance in both fields not only does marvel sells comics and merchandising but they garnered GA audiences aswell both comics and movies marvel wins @Villakeen
I've always been a DC comics fan. For me, DC has better stories. I also remember the late 80s and early 90s with Marvel comics and I would be so pissed with them. I was a big X-Men reader at that time. I hated when a comic switched writers. A new writer would come in ditch the old story line, a character would get kidnapped because the writer didn't want that character in his X-Men line-up, and things would radically change. Also, during this time period is when the 80 different comic covers for one issue was a thing. Marvel also went bankrupt. DC comics to me is the template. DC has icons. Have you considered that maybe your Marvel people aren't traditional comic readers? Traditional meaning collecting for a long time. Maybe they just follow the movies, read a few books but aren't in it for the longterm? Just a thought.
As an old hat I will say this Sean is correct. Silver Age Marvel ignited the world it also had a lot of traction by being the world outside your window in their storytelling. DC even by the 80s were literally trying to sell them as this is not your Parents Superheroes. I love both and view both mostly on even footing but Society in general might like and appreciate DC Heroes but they have been more often the 2 of the Big 2. Something to note Marvel publishes more things gets more media out than DC even if DC has done more in the past Marvel was about getting people to know their Heroes where WB relies solely on Batman for quite some time now.
@Robeoters100 sean said batman dominated in 1990s he did but aside from batman and superman related dc never pushed it other heroes even i back to 1990s see marvel animated series for xmen spiderman hulk ff etc
I think it's the fact there's a lot more channels out there discussing Marvel stuff, not just because it's a larger franchise, but also because of the massive success of the MCU. So they might discuss Avengers one day, Spider-Man the next, then X-Men, etc, and the fanbase might only follow one of those, or specific characters, therefore won't show up for the others. DC OTOH doesn't have as much content to discuss, so when you create a DC video, it tends to bring in more of the DC fandom.
I’m a beginner comic book fan. For me, the things that got me interested in reading comics is watching those characters in tv and movies. I fell in love with the Avengers thanks to the mcu and Avengers EMH. I only started liking dc because of the DCAU.
Spiderman and his rogues were my favorite as a teen. In DC I only like Hourman, wildcat, and Batman. Maybe flash. But Marvel has been my thing. Ironman and hulk were favorites. Even Thor at one point. But traditionally it was spiderman
@TheComicsPals they feel like real people and places. Also I like to see them overcome challenges. With Spiderman it was multilevel. I got to see the big apple and his personal struggles like taking care of Aunt May in Queens NY on Thames Road and hustling at work in Manhattan. As well as his villains being better than him in some regard. Plus his athleticism and one liners. It was mindblowing as a 7 to 13 year old. Ironman for his clear blatant flaws and incredible ingenuity. Inspiring. Hulk for his battle with his mind and when he was smart it was almost scary. Thor for how dumb he is but all heart, integrity and then power after enduring so much.
It comes down to the characters. They had more interesting personalities and they interacted with each other in relatable ways. Also, the way Stan Lee infused his personality and his reaching out to the readership with a "Hey aren't we all having fun together creating and reading these stories?!" attitude made the readership bond with Marvel and that set the stage. And Marvel didn't stomp all over their continuity until it was a bloody corpse the way DC did. Eventually Marvel did do some of that and it was a sad "Day".
DC fans are more book fans and or people taken with the legacy. Marvel fans include movie fans! Marvel's long known for more personal stories! Lastly, think Superman paradox. He's too powerful for real drama, or even wide interest. Marvel fans, significantly casual fans, not all book and legacy fans, don't know or see supe's entertainment value. 'Oh, the all powerful guy. Flying in the cape!'
Exactly the Marvel fans are largely the casual audience and this point is further proven when Marvels axed shows like Avenger EMH to create an Avengers show that looks like the animated MCU (something casuals would be familiar with) and this even bled into shows like Ultimate spiderman. Get most of the beloved characters wrong and DC fans will call you out (looks at Deadshot race flip in the Arkham universe to match the movie version). Zack Snyder's superman lacking that optimism the character is known for or Batman being a killer.
@@baki484 Marvel fans to this day haven't been enthused about Avengers Assemble either, hence why it was cancelled years ago. They're not the ones who decided to cancel EMH. As for the differences between Marvel fans and DC fans, of course older generations are well familiar with DC and their biggest characters; they're cultural icons. But let's not ignore why it happened; the creation of Batman and Superman coincided almost exactly with the creation of television, which created a demand for all kinds of content, including fiction. This led to the creation of serials adapting many popular comic book stories, including Batman and Superman, not only for TV, but radio. And this happened YEARS before Marvel was established as a competitor, even in preliminary form as Timely Comics. Of course, any fans of the franchise would be best served getting more stories directly from the source material, but it cannot be understated how much the popularity of DC's most popular characters was owed to a medium other than the printed one. And this continued for years, with several film and TV adaptations of Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman, then DC was purchased by Warner Bros and they put all their financial power toward promoting the franchise in animation and film as well. So yes, Marvel's fandom has grown through cinema since the turn of the century… but historically, so has DC's. Marvel was only able to use films more recently.
Lots of factors, but I think the origin story is key to staying power. Batman, Superman have it, wonder woman is convoluted, flash and green lantern and others are blah. The stan and Jack characters have incredible origin stories, which gives later creators and movie and TV creators more emotion to work with and connect with audiences.
For me, I like both companies (and others) and which I like the most depends on the era. Both companies have put out great stuff over the years, but generally I prefer silver age Marvel, the 70's are pretty evenly split (if forced I'd give a narrow edge to DC), the 80's is DC. I mostly gave up on comics in the 90's, but the stuff that I kept up with were the DC Vertigo books. I stopped collecting until about 5 years ago, and since then I think they're pretty evenly split...with A LOT more competition from indy publishers.
I’ve been predominantly a DC collector since the original Crisis. The difference between the Crisis and the Secret Wars is what pushed me towards DC back in the day.
When I started reading, in the 60's, Marvel was not as formulaic as DC, nor as overpowered as Supes( who lets face it, makes all other heroes into redundant). Stan the Man made being a Marvelous Marvelite an identifier to at least a couple of generations through good product and great marketing...for a while. Have not read comics in a decade or more, but was a huge collector and reader back in the day
Great conversation! I also would give a lot of credit to Stanley, not just as a creator but also a promoter. He done a bunch of media tours and force comics to people outside the stores. Also the characters are very reliable. And most of the characters at marvel felt like underdogs compared to the overpowered DC characters and a lot of people love to root for the underdog
I would argue that Marvel was always better at directing to the younger generation, and they did so without losing older folk (Yonger I say from kids to late teens). X-man, Spiderman, and Fantastic 4 captivate the younger audience so much more than Superman, Wonder Woman, and the JLA (and Titans don't get that much push by DC).
I feel because their universe is more relatable and their comics are easier to approach. For example, you can sustain a whole readerbose purely on X-Men comics. And there are characters that belong to different tiers like street level, cosmic and mystical. It's very easy to distinguish where every character belongs and which titles connect thematically. Their continuity is a lot more straightforward unlike DC's because those guys reboot themselves with every crisis event or at least that's how it feels for an outsider.
You''re definitely right, and if you look at Marvel's publishing line right now, a person could read JUST X-Men books and still be reading somewhere around 15 titles. It feels neater and more organized than DC does.
The real fan shouldn't even have to choose. As a longtime comic book reader, I always read both. Great characters on each side. Not a chance people should even choose.
for me it depends on the characters, and in what media format (dc sucks a doing movies despite owning all their own characters, but their animated shows/movies are really good). they both still are constantly rebooting their series which drives me nuts and something things like Invincible, Spawn and Savage Dragon don't do.
DC Super Friends was fun, but it looked and felt old compared to Spidey Amazing Friends and Hulk. Even Batman cartoon of the 90s was set in an old style, pulp story of the 40s.
What I’ve heard about DC vs Marvel comics is DC has some comics that knock it out the park. But Marvel gets on base more often. Same with movies, they’ve had some great ones (mostly animated like Flashpoint Paradox) but Marvel has many things that you can hop into and casually enjoy. Same with other media like video games. Unless you’re a Batman fan or like Injustice no AAA game for your fav character. But Marvel has games for Spider-man, GOTG, Midnight Suns, Avengers (even though it’s kinda crappy) and of course the games like alliance that celebrate the wider universe
To add @jboy544, Marvel also has made solo games for ironman 3 of them actually, hulk Ult Destruction, the numerous xmen games and Wolverine games, even Deadpool DC simply just batman and injustice that is . There are no good Superman games, a ww game that is stuck in development hell, and there is still no Flash or Aquaman games @jboy544 The perception dc beats everything outside movies is flat wrong when Marvel sells more comics every month has a greater and more diverse plethora of successful games dc really 2 successful game franchises and sells more merchandising spiderman alone sells more merch than all dc combined. DC only won in animation, which is a comparatively small and niche market. Even Some could argue Marvel closed the gap in animation with the Spider-verse and across the spiders and Big Hero Six, which are all three Marvel films that have earned more than any and all theatrical DC animated movies such as Lego Batman movie or League of Supers Pets.
I think Marvel is more down to earth, and it's readers can picture themselves as the characters. For DC, I think its universe is more abstract, and the characters are larger than life. I think Marvel writes their stories to say that anyone can be a superhero, where DC says that we should look up to these larger than life figures such as Superman. Marvel has better movies right now, but with James Gunn in charge of DC, I think that will change.
I’m not sure how marvel is crushing it against dc for awhile but I will say they haven’t done the best they could to turn those fans of their animated movies, live action movies, shows, etc. to comics like putting an ad for the comic after trailers or show ends so it’s unrealized potential. Ironic how they don’t give in to the source but bleed it dry for content to semi adapt and they’re going through the good ones pretty fast. What could be next after Secret Wars? Idk
I love both. I grew up as a Marvel kid, all the way through my early twenties. After my break from comics (out of school I had no cash), I came back to comics around 2020, and I've leaned much more heavily into DC's ongoings and in my back catalogue reading/collecting. Their elseworlds, legacy, and the general lore of their heroes really speak to me for some reason. I love their archetypal nature, and how their multiverse creates possibilities for unique interpretations alongside their mainline counterparts (like, as a mid-century American history nerd, Superman Space Age feels tailor made for me). I do think the success of MCU has created a bigger, wider audience of casual fans and a deeper integration into the zeitgeist. The poor stewardship of WB (see their stock price lol) has had downstream effects on DC, including the failing of the DCEU. In the moden era, DC's just not been able to launch in a way thats captured the next generation in the broader culture.
I don't think it's necessarily about one company being better than the other. Marvels characters are meant to be relatable. Dc's characters are meant to be aspirational. It''s when writers lose sight of this that either company's comics can begin to suffer in quality. I can always aspire to be a billionaire like Bruce, but I know I can always relate to Peter. Both narratives are equally enjoyable in the right hands.
I think there are some key factors to consider. 1) Marvel has a ton more casual fans, people who have only seen the movies say they love Marvel. 2) Marvel comics have more accessible jumping on characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, and X-Men were the only super popular books Marvel had until the movies came out, otherwise they would have sold the rights to Cap, Iron Man, and Thor when they were in bankruptcy. 3) Because of the accessibility of the core characters, more people buy those books before either falling off or becoming a full on collector. 4) DC comics stories/characters traditionally deal with ideals more so than realistic issues, and echoing what others have said, the characters are more “godly” and less approachable at DC. But that leads to grander stories (not necessarily better). 5) Marvel is owned now by Disney, good or bad Disney has the ability to make these characters come to life in parks that kids visit, so they are exposed to them way earlier.
I have never definitively stated a preference for either. I sort of go through phases. I have been powering through Marvel omnis for much of 2024. But I'm aware that if I say Marvel is my favorite, I'll change my mind when I shift my focus back to DC. I will say this: I probably own more Marvel by a bit. Having said that, I'm fascinated by this topic because I have noticed DC fans voting more in Marvel/DC polls despite the sales numbers. Another great video, Pals!
Yeah, anecdotal but DC books win our polls most of the time. It's pretty wild actually. What Marvel omni's have you read so far? Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I'm more of a Marvel guy, although I do appreciate Kilowog, Constantine and The Question. However, I ain't finna argue with Snyder fans on Twitter or whatever.
DC has a Batman dilemma. He is their cash cow so they put everything into him. I don't think most people know that many DC characters outside of the big four (including Flash).
Yet at the same time people know xmen, avengers spiderman ff and even solo heroes/teams like Deadpool dr strange guardians of the galaxy even blade has higher awarness most second and third dc heroes due to the movies back in late 1990s and early 2000s @joelgenry5489 the depth and breath of marvel is simply incomparable to dc
Joelhenry5459 Its really just big 2 batman is huge and superman is huge although he is fading young gen flash and ww are known but not that popular by comparison with the GA.and the other dc heroes even futher behind
Just came here to say the title to this video is bullshit. DC and Marvel have their own niche of fans but MOST comic book fans love both. And NOBODY loves current MARVEL COMICS which currently cares nothing about their characters or well told stories. They use characters now for perverse purposes and they don’t give a shit about destroying the legacy of their iconic superheroes. DC in part does the same but overall MARVEL takes the cake on shitting on their own characters.
This. 100%. I agree with everything you just said. It’s why I read anything Marvel before 2011 now. Except for a few stories here and there. For DC I’ll mostly read else-world books. Mostly Superman and Batman. Some Justice League.
@@TheComicsPalsI'm one of few that are actually looking forward to james gun's universe. Iloved all his movies so Far Especially guardians of the galaxy 3
I think there's a couple of different factors. Marvel creating the " relatable characters" in Fantastic Four, the X-men and having a teen hero Spider-Man made them standout in 60s. DC is a hodgepodge of different comic companies that weren't creative organically like how Marvel characters were. When reading Marvel Comics it has the feeling of one continuous story that makes it more engaging versus DC which really didn't feel connected until after The First Crisis on Infinite Earths. I also think in media representation DC has put a lot of their eggs in Batman basket versus Marvel where Spider-Man, The X-men and The Hulk were dominant now we see that former B and C listers like Captain America, Thor, Ironman and Daredevil have achieved mainstream appeal thanks to MCU.
I'm not sure, as this is new information to me-did Marvel really dominate DC in the '70s? A possible guess could be that Spider-Man's popularity and strong sales helped introduce more people to Marvel, leading to favoritism, but I’m not convinced this applies specifically to the '70s.
When we say people are we talking about casual fans? Because I always see it that way. The general audience loves Marvel because of the movies. Their comics are simple to follow without backreading a lot of issues. The problem with DC is that they don't know how to market their heroes to the general audience outside of the Trinity.
When I say people I'm talking about every kind of person who would be inclined to enjoy superheroes. Marvel comics have outsold DC's since the 70's and of course we know what's happened in the film space.
Dc does not know how to market their heroes outside Batman and to a lesser extent superman he is fading , you cant place ww in the same boat yes people know her but he nowhere near as marketable and popular @Theominibusprime4046
I am a huge Fantastic Four fan and was introduced to marvel through the Raimi/MCU and I've seen every DC movie, most animated shows/movies but I've only read a few DC comics all the way through. There's just something about DC that doesn't capture me as much. For whatever reason I get bored almost every time i read batman, I always feel like I never care too much about him and his supporting cast. I like Superman quite a bit more than Batman but even still... I care more about Alicia Masters than Batman.
Obviously the answer is the movies, as a Mexican who does not live in the USA, I can tell you that visual productions help promote the source material, DC or better say, Warner has not given focus to much of his other rooster of characters (it is incredible that during the timverse we did not have a wonder woman series) dc's problem is not distributing the weight of its personnel well. In mexico and brasil dc were more popular than marvel...but as the time goes on marvel has dominantes the market for the movies. And also the marvel universe is the same since the 60s. But dc not.
@baniromasati4907@ look harder even looking at 1990s cartoons and influx of 2000s movies marvel gave heroes like ff hulk spiderman blade xmen movies and tv shows in 1990s and 2000s dc only pushed batman and superman there no flash gl or ww movies or shows in that time period.The mcu took this to another level
I’m a DC comics fan but I feel like media representation is very important and Marvel has been great at that for the last decade or so, while warner bros ruined the brand DC let’s be honest I feel like movies have a big huge factor here! All tho I prefer the comics and cartoons over the movies.
DC is my favorite, and in particular I'm a Superman guy. I like Marvel, especially the things that came out of the Fantastic Four and the X-Men; but they don't speak to me in the same way as the DC characters do. For both franchises I'll always care more about the comics than any other media. I feel like DC's problem is Warner Brothers. and corporate actors getting in the way of artistic decisions.
Imo Marvel only really seperates themselves in the comics and with the MCU. In both instances that have a very sturdy foundation that they built everything off of (Silver Age Marvel Comics with Stan Lee working with artists on virtually every title and MCU Phase 1 with Feige steering things towards the first Avengers movie). DC's foundation both for comics and the late DCEU is much more unsteady, constantly reinventing themselves trying to pull all their various characters, storylines, and ideas togother on the fly. But outside of the MCU and Comics, I think the differences in other media are negligable.
Also I believe that marvel age demographic are a lot broader than DC. I've seen multiple comic documentaries And when people were asked, they say they started with DC and grew into marvel. And we know that older people read more than children
Imo, it's because Dc just has a more "You have to be an experienced person to understand it" feel to it. With Marvel, it feels like it's dumbed down. (Not really obviously)
Right now, Marvel publishes many more books every month, so they are going to dominate in the aggregate because of amount of product. Marvel became and remains more popular on the top end because their heroes have clear limitations and people relate to that. Who at Marvel is going to spin Earth backwards to turn back time? Also, Marvel leans heavily into the soap opera aspects and that appeals to audiences. DC is my favorite because I think they have more variety especially when it comes to villains. Just my thoughts and love your theories too!
Batman is the man among gods... and somewhat relatable like most of the world outside your window. Does DC have the success formula under their noses and not know what to do with it?
Batman is such a unique success it’s hard to apply that replication across the board at DC. So much of it is the iconography and the cool gadgets and villains.
When Superman was created in 1938, he was a manifestation of the New Deal values. He was a defender of the common man. Over time, with editor Julius Schwartz, Superman became ultra powerful and more scientifically based (as most heroes would be in their reintroductions in the mid 1950s). If Superman was created today, he would feign the identity of an SJW RUclipsr … who would just so happen to be a scientifically advanced Kryptonian. The defender of planet earth. Slowly he would work to scientifically improve earth with his Kryptonian technology and with help from the Legion of Superheroes from the 30th century. He would be like the ancient alien theory in live-action 😀
Marvel is cooler. Or at least they were when most of the comic book audience was getting into comics. Marvel characters also have more interesting hooks, which helps when you’re moving into movies. The majority of the main Marvel characters are something else other than a superhero, even if they classically functioned as a superhero. When they get moved to movies, the vast majority of Marvels characters don’t even really function as super heroes...only the Sony made MCU Spider-Man functions as a superhero as far as MCU movie characters go, with Netflix’s Daredevil being the first MCU character (although he was fairly tentatively connected as those Netflix shows went on) that actually did super hero stuff and didn’t kill people like comic book super heroes traditionally try not to do. But DC characters were classically superheroes first, they’re all more or less different flavors of the same thing despite this or that power or origin. The idea that DC hasn’t had the best track record of non comics media is completely bizarre to me. Marvel having media outside of the comics that’s good is like just the last three decades. DC characters on the other hand have basically always had good media outside the comics for about as long as they’ve existed. Superman starts in 1938, the Fleischer Superman shorts start in ‘41.
Serendipitously I had a similar conversation on this today in which a friend's kid asked him who his favourite Avenger was & he had no answer. He & I then got on a rant about how Marvel is slim pickings in terms of characters that connect for us, I named 3, he 6. We then rattled off double digit DC characters we love. Now the question of "but why though?" was broached. Out of it I expressed my perspective "superheroes are morality tales for children" that's fundamentally my opinion, and then a compare/contrast which lead to things like "Superman is Superman irrespective of what he's wearing, Peter Parker is Peter Parker irrespective of what he's wearing", "DC character are morality first, Marvel's personality first"; then got into soap opera vs myth, then legend vs religion. I digress to say, no one in that discord jumped in to big up Marvel during or since this discussion. I know there are Marvel heads who were lurking yet had nothing to say. Which is equally odd & telling.
Growing up my favorite marvel characters were hulk and Spider-man because they were relatable but on the DC Side I had Superman,Flash, Captain marvel,and beast boy- all of which inspired me to have hope(Superman), to show compassion( Flash), and to strive to be good even with the cards stacked against you(Captain marvel).
Well there's an exception for everything, no exceptions… I'd wager to say there's a character or franchise that parallels pretty much any DC hero, not necessarily b/c of having similar powers or personality, but in terms of the themes that play out in their stories. But Marvel tries to reach as many fans by design, so a character that might be relatable to your experience in one aspect of their life might be unrelatable in another, simply because Marvel might feel it would reach broader audiences. For example, I can probably relate to a few female superheroes for having similar experiences, but because they were female, I might feel it's not targeted for me. At the same time, I can probably go toe for toe listing Marvel characters I and many people can relate to, from Avengers, X-Men, Defenders, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. And of course, you can have a larger conversation about superheroes and what they signify in culture.
Marvel is popular because of... Spider-man, he's the characters that all the kids will gravitate to when they are introduced to Marvel. It's something about that mask people like...anybody can be Spider-man. 2. Marvel has a lot of street level characters like Daredevil or The Punisher, etc. It's easier to adapt as a tv or movie. Three, a lot of their characters' designs are a lot better. Ghost Rider looks way cooler than the Green Lantern. The hero's of Marvel have better costume. People like hero's that look like villians. 4. Marvel characters are willing to kill. They are not bound by the no kill rule so people can relate to them better. 5. Marvel marketing team for there other hero's like Xmen, Avengers, or Fantastic Four ways always better than DC. Marvel had no problem using there other characters who were less popular. Over time it paid off. 6. Stan Lee was probably the greatest ambassador for all of comics for many years. Decades. He was the icon of Marvel. 7. Marvel has the most vocal fanbase. So because people like them so much and are vocal about Marvel on social media. It makes the next cluless person wanna check Marvel out before DC. 8. The MCU and the video games are really good. Marvel is really good outside of comics. So that's my 2 cents on why Marvel beats DC in popularity.
Yet the Arkham series is what changed the perception around superhero games as it held that spot for year and debatably does. Beforw the arkham series the superhero games were nothing more that rushed movie cash grabs with games like TASM 1 and 2, Captain America supersoldier and even insomniac stating that it level of quality is what they are trying to achieve. Then DC got complacent. The dark knight was influential enough for the likes of Sony to go for the "grounded" take with their spiderman movies DC dominated in animation JLU, JL, BTAS, Static shock and Superman, under the red hood to name a few until they got complacent and marvel took over with into the spider verse. Beyond spiderman and the X-men movies marvel was meh. It was the launching of the MCU that really put marvel in the public zeitgeist. As a kid I mostly gravitated toward Batman, green lantern, flash, superman, Ben 10 and Generator Rex. Spiderman wasn't even a factor in all that. Marvel's popularity comes from DC becoming complacent and the MCU which pulled the casual audience in while the DC brand was failing in movies giving it a negative image in the eyes of said casual audiences. The end of the video talks about lack of marvel fans engaging with them further proving my point about the brand being pushed by casual audiences.
@baki484 DC biggest problem was the lack of leadership. WB and DC is always going into a state of flux behind the scenes. They are always unstable behind the scenes. Mergers, different President's of company. People are getting fired or leaving the company. DC is never stable with good leadership behind the scenes.
I think that DC has some problems with making their characters more popular, and that makes them focus almost only on Batman and Batman related characters, not only in movies and games but also in comics. Static could be "DCs Spiderman" but they don't invest in the characters while Marvel, as i see, invest in more characters, so the general public understand Marvel as a big brand not only one or two characters, wich sadly happens with DC. At least here in Brazil we have this problem. DC should start putting more effort on least known characters such as Zatanna, Mr. Terrific, Static, Dr. Fate, Black Lighting and others, bring the heavy weight creators on those characters on a monthly magazine not only on 6 issue series. At the same time they also need to understand that they are not Marvel so don't try to copy their formula, just do a better job at marketing, making the characters more popular in medias outside comics.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate because I do believe that DC has fantastic characters, they have just struggled to get the public to care about more than a handful of them, and they’d not a new thing.
you have hit the nail on the head, @gutavosouza5009. Marvel draws upon an entire universe; people watch Marvel films and read Marvel comics because Marvel DC is a brand more defined by Batman and, to a lesser extent, superman. This does not only extend to movies and cartoons but equally to comic sales. Second and tier Marvel heroes like Moon Knight, Dr. Strange, daredevil, Venom and black panther have recently been able to carry 2 to 3 titles by themselves and have garnered popular creators like Jed Mckay Cates and Zdarsky . Dc b and c tires get a mini-series here and there that nobody reads. Marvel gives entire universe greater representation, diversity and visibility all in fronts
@gustavosouza5009 when was the last time DC had a breakout black hero? Marvel pushed black panther blade and recently Miles Morales into the mainstream. When was the last time DC pushed an Asian hero into the mainstream? Shang Chi and Ms marvel were more known than the likes of Ryan Choi Atom or even Blue Beetle? It this kind of diversity and representation where marvel eclipses dc
@@harryrao4296 You have a point. I think when it comes to asian heroes and lgbt heroes DC does a "decent" job (theres several heroes but they're not that relevant, theres still a lot of work to do). But when we talk about Balck Heroes theres a lot of wasted potencial about characters already stablished but still not actually relevant on dc universe. DC has everything to have a great black hero big as Black Panther (theres Mr. Terrific, Static, Black Lightning, Vixen, John Stewart, Steel, Cyborg and others, but it looks like dc has been trying to make Mr Terrific more relevant) but DC dont invest in them enough. I think that the MCU helped Marvel a lot because since marvel invested in asian and black characters on movies that reflected on comics and now those characters are more relevant and sell more, so i think that DC should let Batman rest a little and start invest in those characters on comics but also outside comics. I would really love a Mr Terrific series written by Tom King or a Black Lightning written my Coates (he did an amazing job on Black Panther) and see them in movies and series with a decent budget.
The way I see it, Marvel is a lot more beloved than DC for the simple fact that Marvel has a whole plethora of characters that they delve into, and people can enjoy and somewhat relate to with many of these characters on so many levels because they give so many of their characters love and opportunities to shine that in the case of DC they only focus mainly on pushing Batman, Superman, Flash, Green Latern, Justice League, JSA, and Teen Titans mostly and that's really all. Marvel has a plethora of teams and characters that people can read or watch and enjoy, and if there was a character or team they didn't quite enjoy then you had many other characters and teams you might love better. For example if you don't really care for the inhumans then you have the X-Men or if you don't like Silver Surfer you have Ghost Rider to name a couple.
Jsa since when do people care about JSa especially in the mainstream i would wager right now wanda loki or black panther have more fans than JSA and Green lantern especially amongst casual audiecnes @ThorGoatinson
@harryrao4296 I'm simply talking about the characters or teams that they push forward in contrast to Marvel, who pushes a plethora of their characters and teams forward about 2 times the amount 😅
@@ThorGoatinson Marvel pushes every corner of its universe xmen , avengers, ff spiderman, street tier heroes, cosmic mystic, etc. Does DC push JSa? how much screentime or books have they had. Is dc or marvel more popular in your area?
@harryrao4296 Marvel, but I agree with you. I just didn't want to type out everything Marvel pushes like you did because it is a lot, and that's what I love about Marvel. DC just doesn't hit the same way Marvel does, and that's just facts.
is it not more down to the success at Marvel of Spiderman and the X-Men, and that they are just more popular than Superman and Batman? DC can do whatever it wants, but it can't do Spiderman or the X-Men. outside of these two properties, does Marvel really have such a lead over DC?
I mean if you remove Spider-Man and X-Men you would also have to remove Batman and Superman, no? And if you did that, DC has nothing with respect to general interest.
Yes they do Marvel have a entire cinematic universe that did not rely on spiderman and xmen take batman and superman and spiderman and xmen away both companies marvel would still crush dc ironman cap thor hulk ff etc beat the likes flash ww gl in mainstream popularity and exposure @richardhunter132
even Outside of spider-man xmen marvel still have deeper roster characters especially mainstream the likes of deadpool thor cap ironman even right now gotg black panther beat the rest of dc lineup outside of batman and superman @richardhunter132 comic sales and box office proves this
@@harryrao4296 I disagree. DC has Flash, the Green Lantern, Swamp Thing, John Constantine, and Sandman. it also published the Watchman and V for Vendetta. imho, DC has produced far more sophisticated and interesting comics than Marvel over the years, who largely confine themselves to super-heroes
Before DCEU, we only had Reeve's Superman films & Burton/Shumacher Batman films. Besides those 2 we had Steel, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex and imo they didnt flop because of alittle humor in them, rather the story/plot of those films were flat out bad.
Marvel for a time had better creators. John Byrne, Roger Stern, Denny O'Neil once all Marvel when they went to DC wow. But you got to repair all the stuff, previous inferior creative teams did. Again for a time Marvel took bigger chances on characters.
Marvel is more likeable amongst comic readers with their characters, and better stories. People know more characters from Marvel than DC. How many big DC characters do people know past Superman, Batman, WW, JLA, JSA?
I think there's one factor not mentioned in the video. Marvel's relentless self-promotion beginning with Stan Lee. Everything has those adjectives, like Fantastic, Amazing, Incredible, or even Uncanny. His messages ended with "Excelsior!". Marvel was always better at spinning everything into something positive. Heroes Reborn in the 90s should have been the ultimate embarrassment, but they made it look like it was the greatest thing ever.
You are absolutely correct and I wish we had spoken about this. Stan Lee's legacy has been run down, but the man deserves a lot of credit for what he helped Marvel become.
I find interesting that one of the complaints that Marvel fans have against DC is that their character are too OP. Yet, they love anime like Dragon Ball Z and the like...so, make it make sense.
Marvel is billed as "The world outside your window", and that's the truth. The characters were ordinary people with ordinary problems in extraordinary situations. They were, for the most part, more grounded in a firm reality. DC stories featured characters with god-like abilities, near-flawless morals, and fictional locations out the wazoo. DC could be enjoyed, but actually living in the world of Marvel seemed more attainable. But if you wanted to reinforce the "comics are for kids" stereotype, you needn't look further than DC who played it very safe for most of their existence.
I like DC heroes more because the seem more like actual heroes. They genuinely want to help people. Marvel heroes hate their powers and are always complaining that they don’t want to be heroes.
I can see where you’re coming from with that. I think the difference in my mind is that Marvel heroes are often burdened by power they didn’t necessarily want or ask for and that power causes issues in their personal lives.
@@TheComicsPals which is why I like dc heroes more. They are genuinely good people and care and protect those who are unprotected and exploited. Sometimes when I read Spiderman comics and I see Peter Parker complain so much. I’m like “ you’re literally a superhuman genius, stop complaining and do something with your life “
dc problem are the hero are god like where the point that they either have to nerf the hero or way too over power that it unbelievable to get hurt by a street level character. the reboot hurt the worldbuilding and estabish lore, chararacters and so on lead to discoonnect. the many mcguffin and plotarmors hurt too. the redemption of villian, rewriten or retcon. superman is overpower that his villian list should be lex, zod, parasite, metallo, atomic skull, intergang, mercy, red cloud, blanque, eradicator, xa-du, lobo, rampage, mongul some other coluan specie character. someone who carries superman weaken around, have access to high alien tech or can match supermen in strengh but aren't too power. darkseid, brainiac and doomday should be group level threat not just superman villians
yes back and forth which is why marvel been number comic seller since 1980s @Obiwan90 so dc only outsells marvel for a few months in 30 years it makes it 50/50?
@kyymalvados5874 Even if Gunn fixes that DC will reach level of infinity war or endgame every time dc tried much lesser characters its never worked out for them , they never able catch marvel in absolute numbers Yes mcu is a huge part dont marvel had ff xmen blade spiderman hulk movies and shows before that exposed their brand dc having resting completely batman/superman for decades
@@harryrao4296 yeah and thats why I mean James has taken characters in the Mu that aren’t know and In the DC.. People hella know Teen titans … Green Lantern … Flash Ect but the poor management of these other characters over the many years at WB as made a big impact if people care or not .. I feel with Gunn at the wheel finally someone who knows about comics will be able to shed positive light again
@@kyddmalvado5874 Again just Gunn did for marvel does mean did for dc even push the likes flah gl and Titans marvel still outnumber DC in terms of public recognition people know from dc batman, superman , ww flash gl at a push aquaman arrow and titans that's 9 vs marvel which has spiderman , wolverine/xmen hulk ironman cap thor gotg antman dr strange captain marvel shang chi fantastic four even blade and daredevil that like 17 vs 8 not even close
@@kyddmalvado5874 Gunn tried to push obscure characters TSS that the movie bombed even by COVID standards, and Peacemaker show fewer views than Secret Invasion. The notion people jump on obscure heroes now when they done it before is misguided. Creature commando comes in 2 months, and nobody is talking about, especially in the GA.
I think it’s the artist that we’re coming up in those times, most of the image founders worked on more Marvel stuff than DC, there comics had great artist, plus the movies now are kinda a staple, everyone knows them without even being fans, I prefer DC
Great convo. To add to the Spider-Man being relatable point, I’ve been revisiting the OG Fantastic Four comics via the omnibus which prints the letters section of each issue. Fans really appreciated how the FF had internal arguments and real world problems. It’s seems Marvel characters were just more relatable and redefined what a superhero was.
Hey Gem! Completely agreed; I think relatability is that final ingredient that hooked readers to Marvel's characters. As an aside, love your channel! Thanks for giving us a watch.
@@TheComicsPals The xmen cartoon was huge hitter especially 1990s and so was the spiderman cartoons
My father quoted that dc is for tales of gods while marvel has the story of men. Marvel is simply more relatable across the board imo.
Very hard to argue with that. Your father spoke true!
This is it right here
Ahh yes, the litteral Norse god Thor. The billionaire genius Iron man. The man with infinite limitless strength Hulk. The sorcerer supreme who can do anything Dr strange.
@@victorq4842that might be true but look at the most popular marvel hero a collage student who struggles to get money
@@victorq4842 LoL, no one says Marvel doesn't have its powerhouses, Thor is a good one but in general debating if DC vs Marvel DC usually wins because their heroes tend to be stronger, Thor is not portrayed as too strong for 90% of characters to realistically fight, iron man isn't that powerful either, Cap can run the ones with him, hulk has a crippling weakness in that he can't control it which is the major focus of his character and Strange usually deals with threats always on his level unlike say the Flash that shouldn't even have a rogues gallery who aren't speedsters 😮💨
ALWAYS loved Marvel more than DC. Just connected with so many Marvel characters much easier. To be honest, though, my main introduction to Marvel was Transformers and GI Joe back in the day. From there, I went on to the Avengers and X-Men and I really think that it was the X-Men that made me stick. So many memories of those days. Then so many creators that I really enjoyed worked for Marvel at that time, especially artists, that it was cemented for me that I was Marvel first. I like DC as well, but no where near as much as Marvel. As a matter of fact, There was a time that I liked Image more than DC simply for the fact that it was the creators driving the bus in that situation. But, yeah, Marvel for me.
I always think of the catchphrase “The world outside your window” it had real places that people are connected to apparently Ditko would site at his window and imagine Spider-Man bounding over the rooftops he could see as he was drawing the heroes had real world problems and they have grown with us to a point.
Yeah absolutely. That is such an important aspect of Marvel's success. Can't be overstated.
And the world outside your window would only apply if you lived in NY.
@@TheComicsPals It idea Marvel is a reflection of the world he live and its a celebration of our humanity the world of dc is a world very much detached from sentiments of the everyman dc heroes belong to another more innocent time and have not aged well
@@TheComicsPals The fact you say dc a bigger brand until the 2000s. In the 1990s, spiderman and xmen Hulk were almost like Batman and Superman even though it was only those 2 characters that were big, not dc as a whole in terms of recognition.
Marvel is my favorite yes. When I got started into comics when I was little. Marvel was where i started. Spider-Man was what got me into comics. So I delved more into Marvel when I was little and fell in love with characters like F4, Iron Man, Daredevil, Thor etc... As for the comic world. I feel like Marvel is more relatable for people. And I think Disney owning the IP gives Marvel a bigger notice compared to DC. I cant really say why Marvel would be popular over what you all always covered.
In the 70s what pushed Marvel over was there was one version on one earth and that guy was a snarky spider teen, a green rage monster and a rocky guy with a temper. Easier and more like then current teens, no perfect heroes
Definitely a big part of the secret sauce.
@@TheComicsPals Also a adiantum really 1980s and 1990s, xmen and Spiderman started to overtake the market all these it was Batman being popular and Superman, not DC as a brand, do you agree?
Spider-Man being in NYC helped a whole lot. If you think about what NYC is and especially what/how it is/was perceived by so many different citizens of this world.
No different than in hip-hop - if you're from certain places you can go platinum in your backyard. And if you are from far away you see stories in a city that back then had way more skyscrapers and urban trains than the rest of the world. In a way Spider-Man to some might as well come from a fictional world so many people wished they could get to. And Spider-Man is there swinging everyday, saving the day.
Kirby created 1,000's if not 10,000's of thousands of ideas "at one time" and that helps a lot.
You got that right.
To me, outside of a few characters (really just Nightwing and Green Arrow), DC comics have always made me feel like I'm reading something about gods trying to play human. They have grandiose powers or "prep time" and these little macguffin weaknesses that are exploited to bring about their failures. On the Marvel side of things, no matter who I read (even if I'm reading for a villain), it feels like I'm watching people trying to unsuccessfully play gods. From super powerful characters like Silver Surfer to "normal" characters like Daredevil, I always feel like they will fail or succeed based on who they are rather than what they can do.
I know DC has stories where they've done the same, but everything with DC just feels hyperbolic: space, Metropolis, Gotham, Star City; Marvel, even in their cosmos, feels more toned down. I can't explain it any better than that, but for me Marvel will always have that over DC.
You're right tho, Marvel's sucess comes from the fact that they put on an effort to make everything relatable, FF and Spidey being the clearest examples, FF's concept is "a FAMILY of super-heroes", and spidey's is "a TEENAGER trying his best to be a hero with and without a suit". And then there's the real-life factor, most of Marvel's characters live in real places, even Doctor Strange lives in New York, so you can clearly see the difference.
I also think this is the reason why the Teen Titans, Static and Blue Beetle were so damn popular back in the 00's, because they have fundamental flaws, or realistic concepts at their core, like Raven being someone who's judged because of her family's reputation, and who wants to "break the cycle", but has a hard time doing so since she was affected by it since childhood, it's relatable, and so it works
Very well said. That sums up my own views on the matter fairly well. I identified much more with Spider-Man struggling to pay his rent while doing his best to save lives much more than Superman being this unbelievably god-like being who's only real struggle in life was... ... Hoping people didn't recognize him as Clark Kent? Raised by a relatively well-off upper-middle class farming family, landed his job as a journalist before he even moved to Metropolis, and the only thing he had problems with was an extremely rare green rock. Or Batman, with his "Oh, I'm a sad billionaire who's parents died and I had to be raised by my butler in a mansion! Boo hoo, woe is me. Just gonna blow my nose on this wad of $100 bills." I just can't identify with DC heroes the same way I can with Marvel heroes.
DC has certainly gotten better in recent years, but they can't really shed a lot of that old baggage from the early days. But then with Marvel, you've got like the X-Men who popped up back in the 60s and their whole deal was suffering and dealing with real-world issues of racism and bigotry. They didn't have a "kryptonite", they just got the crap beat out of them by villains who were flat out stronger than them and had to find a way to overcome that.
@famousthaneus9810 Man, that pretty much perfectly sums up the biggest difference between the two universes and the reason I have never been able to get behind or find something DC to like and draw me in whether it was Comics, Shows, Movies or Games. Marvel gives you the entire universe and says, "Here are street level characters or cosmic type being or gods you can love regardless because they are grounded or simply will give you an adventure or a true fantasy you can delve into headlong." For example, I'm sure it's no surprise by my name, but Thor is my all-time favorite character for the fact he is a warrior god and has godly adventures not being tied down to earth which would be dumb if he were. Thor was shown how to be humble and relate to humans instead of standing above them just because he had the power to do so. Thor is a god, yes, but we get to see him go through things, struggle, be tested, love, and lose, but most importantly, continue learning and growing for the benefit of earth and his people (which by the way he would do anything for unlike Superman). Thor is someone that although he is a god, you can still relate to or love for all he is and will become or simply for the stories, adventures, fantasy, or perspective.
(To explain that Superman bit a little further. The way I see Superman is a godlike alien playing human, never taking his people side even if they are desperate and can use some much needed help and guidance, he simply choose Earth over all else (and Lois lol) but it makes him stale with no true depth, fantasy, adventure or perspective you can truly get behind because unlike Thor, you don't get to travel the stars or go through these godly battles or struggles to keep your people safe. Being tied to Earth all the time for someone who is a so-called "god" amongst men, I just don't get it.) Sorry, my little rant 😅
@@PandemoniumVice Absolutely 💯
@@psicopato2460 Exactly, Facts 💯
The X-Men comics was the crown jewel of Marvel for a long time.
Its my crown Jewel certainly
I'm more of a DC fan but I still respect marvel as such
I can respect that!
My first comic (Howard the Duck #4) was from Marvel. My Mom bought it for me at a newsstand on the West Side of Chicago. I was a child of the 70s and Marvel was on fire back then creatively. DC was good to me back then too, but Marvel was more relatable. I loved Batman, Swamp Thing, the Spectre, Creeper, OMAC, Flash, and a lot of the more offbeat characters DC had to offer, but comics like Spider-Man, Luke Cage, X-Men, the Hulk, Captain America, Daredevil grabbed me more.
I lived through Dolph Lungrend Punisher, 1990s captain america, lou frigno Hulk vs Thor and the nber was fantastic four. At that stage, just having them on the screen was a start. They werent great but 1999 Xmen swung the pendulium, spiderman came. Dark Knight overshadowed iron man and while Dark knight rises was meant to be the hot of the year, this crazy emmsemble Avengers film took everyone by surprise.
How Marvel created a universe onto itself with mutants fighting for civil rights, and a superhero family that time travels, and normal people becoming hero’s by accident and constantly learning what it means to have such powers, the complex relationships wether romantic or work related etc. these pockets of groups of people and aliens and cosmic beings and monsters and witches with their own unique realities and still are able to connect somehow and work together at times. Not to mention the villains with an actual personality and cause. It’s a lot going on but it’s woven together telling an even bigger story. A big fascinating story. DC just haven’t been able to pull it off. Plus the constant reboots don’t help. Superman’s resurrection after his extremely published death was a betrayal that people are still not over.
In online comics communities I feel it is way more common to find somebody who only reads marvel comics than a strictly dc reader and I have no idea why
That’s interesting. Here in our community it’s the opposite and it surprised me a lot.
The online communities I’ve found tend to be more DC focused. I know Comicstorian (RIP Benny) always focused more on DC because those videos did far better than Marvel videos.
I don’t understand it, but I’ve always kinda assumed it was because Marvel has a much broader appeal, but DC has a more passionate, loyal fan base.
I have no evidence for that, of course, but i can’t think of a Marvel fan base as vocal as, say, Flash fans, for example.
I've typically found the opposite to be true. Most Marvel fans I've met in my life are like "Oh yeah, I like that DC story. I like that DC hero. This or that thing they did was pretty cool." while most of the DC fans I've met are borderline rabid in both their defence of DC comics and their disdain for everything Marvel. I've literally had someone scream in my face about "Batman with prep time". Needless to say I never returned to that particular comic store, and it only got that bad the one time. I think that guy needed therapy and medication more than anything else. But, I digress...
It's probably the amount of franchises there are for Marvel vs the amount for DC, especially nowadays. With DC, you can only talk about a dozen or so of superheroes that people truly follow, or spinnofs of said superheroes, whereas with Marvel, you've got Avengers fans, X-Men fans, Defenders fans and all the sub teams in between. The more stories there are from one publisher (Marvel), the less need for people to look at the competition (DC). It's harder the other way around, because people get tired of the same subjects and themes being played over and over on the same limited amount of titles. But still, the fact DC fans usually have the taste for closely related titles, they tend to bond together closer than Marvel fans, which would explain why more DC fans will view any DC video (because of shared interest, opinions, etc), as opposed to Marvel fans who might follow a handful of titles, but might not be interested in all of them.
@@vitreo1363 very eloquently put, I read Spider-Man and daredevil when it comes to marvel maybe a little X-men and f4 but with dc I’ll try just about anything
I’m personally enjoying DC comic books more so lately. That said, if I want to fill a DC void then the comics are the only place I can go to fill that void. Marvel currently has a lot more outlets for me to explore (movies, games, etc).
As for popularity, let’s be honest here, the MCU movies play a massive massive role.
DC has the Cartoons and Games in their pockets
Games: Lego batman Arkham series Injustice and some less known games like superman shadow of apokolips Batman Vengeance death of superman (snes/gen)
Cartoons:Batman Tas Superman Tas Justice League Tas/unlimited etc...
Not saying Marvel has worse Cartoons and games I'm just saying DC has them too and I'm recommending you some
Edit: movie wise I recommend the classic superman movies besides quest for peace and maybe the third, All the batman movies except V superman, aquaman wonder woman and the animated ones like Justice league Doom
@@TherealDCAvenger Sorry I should've clarified, I was referring specifically to new content (new movies, new games). Of course DC has plenty of offer in the past. Once Gunn's DCU gets rolling things will change obviously. As for new games, has there been any new DC games over the last year or so other than the Suicide Squad one? They cancelled DC Legends on mobile. Go into the app store and type in DC games and you'll get Injustice (which is solid) but there's really only a couple other options and they're complete ass (DC Heroes & Villains I'm looking at you). So if I want to fill a DC itch, I basically have to go to the comics or watch stuff from the past.
@@andrewkarns5502 sometimes old is gold but if you want something recent I find the Gotham knights game pretty good and the Penguing HBO show is great
@@TherealDCAvenger , accept most of DC success comes from Batman in terms of their brand penetration . Is there another franchise outside a group game like Injustice that DC has for its other heroes? Where is the aquaman game? The flash game? The ww game? Outside of Batman, DC simply has flopped the Green Lantern game and suicide squad game, not to mention the failed Superman games.
Marvel has multiple games for not just Spiderman but xmen Wolverine, even Ironman, hulk, and Deadpool, and its own games have garnered recognition in terms of variety and brand visibility. Marvel beats DC in games. Cartoons are the only area that DC, even then, 80 per cent of it is Batman-focused.
@@andrewkarns5502 Yes Because Gunn's dcu going to push ahead of 30 + billon dollar franchise Gunn's dcu will around 15 average-level films to beat the mcu that provides the mcu stops making movies? Also
Too me the death of Superman still a better story than wtf avengers endgame is
I returned to reading comics this year, I have always only been a DC reader, not for any reason other than I find the characters more interesting, Superman followed by mostly all JSA dark / vertigo characters. However, while waiting for All-In I found my monthly pull being loaded with Ghost Machine books and a few oddballs like Hercules. I loved the Marvel movies when younger (never watched any since end game, again not for any reason) but for some reason, it never converted me to want to check out the comics to this day.
Maybe judging sales data though It is something I should consider looking for a character to start with, but with that being said I feel like it's the Indie companies who are capturing my attention these days like Mad Cave who publish Nottingham.
I think it was Chris Sims over at Comics Alliance years and years ago who wrote about what he called the DC problem. Essentially, ever since Fantastic Four #1, DC has desperately wanted to be Marvel. Marvel immediately captured an older audience in the 60s, leaving DC to fight a perception that they made kids comics. And they have been chasing Marvels tail ever since, trying to fight a perception of their characters as less sophisticated. Even when they proved this decisively in the 80s, the culture at DC still had a chip on its shoulder. It’s part of why they eventually embraced all the mature content in the 2010s, to once and for all shed that perception (YMMV on how successful that was).
as it relates to this topic, I think the general audience senses that whiff of desperation from DC and Marvel seems so much more effortlessly cool in comparison.
Totally agreed. So many people say that DC Comics makes comics "for adults" while Marvel panders to kids but that perception was the complete opposite when Marvel first took off and for many years after.
I think it has to do with Marvel creating their identity by publishing stories of heroes that weren't perfect. While DC was printing stories of Superman shrugging off bullets and easily thwarting robbers, Marvel's most popular hero was a nerd who got superpowers, selfishly decided to use them for personal gain, and because of his ego, learned a lesson about power and responsibility. That's way more character development in one origin story than any superhero had at the time, which was seen as a more complex and therefore mature story. Likewise with the rich, millionaire war profiteer whose personal experience seeing the real life impact of his weapons caused him to have a change of outlook and decided to use his intelligence and resources to fight evil. It was seen as a more complex characterization, because giving powers to a perfect saint was very cliché in the genre.
I grew up a DC fan, but as I got older, Marvel characters related more to me than DC characters, essentially Spider-Man.
Where are you at now? Do you read both? Is Marvel the company you love more?
@@TheComicsPals I read more Marvel and Indie now. With the constant reboots and dialog heavy writing, the last DC book I read was Wonder Woman #1 by Tom King, previous to that it was Superman Lost. The last true DC book I enjoyed was Sideways, but they canceled that book. Now I am reading Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Spider-Man, I Heart Skull Crusher, Beneath the Trees, Daredevil, and a few other Marvel and Indie titles.
More love for DC over Marvel here! JSA, JLA, Teen Titans and Legion of Super-Heroes, 'Nuff Said!
Much love to that! No DC hate over here.
Legion was the original comic book fandom and has been a market competitor with X-Men for a long time, It shame that DC didn't do anything with them after silver age comic
I will always be a dc fan no matter what
Even though I myself like Marvel more than DC. DC is still SPECTACULAR and as good as marvel. I love them both!
Same here! No reason to have to pick sides.
In my opinion the relatablity of Marvel characters is definitely a factor. Characters with everyday problems like Spider-man or characters who struggle with mental illness like Daredevil or characters who are an allegory for minorities like the X-Men are a lot more easier to identify with and relate to.
That's not to say characters like Batman and Superman are completely unrelatable I personally relate to Batman a lot because like me he also suffers from trauma. Superman can also be relatable yes he's an overpowered alien but that is only one aspect of his life he is also a reporter at the daily planet, he is also a son with parents to care of, he's now also a father and a husband which I think people can relate to but on a surface level these characters don't seem that relatable to most people.
What's unfortunate for DC is that they have really missed the mark with representing these characters outside of comics and that is something which is critical because the general audience doesn't read comics so if you don't get the adaptions right the general audience will have a negative opinion of your characters and your brand. DC has done well with some movies but they haven't been consistent like Marvel which is why Marvel has a lot more goodwill and faith in the eyes of people than DC at the moment.
Another thing is that DC has been really poor at making people care about characters other than Batman and Batman related characters. In the comics there is a lot of focus on Batman and there was a lot of Batman in the movies for a long time as well. DC has a lot of characters that could make a lot of money like Zatanna for example but they just don't do enough with them. Marvel on the other hand has been a lot better at pushing a bunch of characters like the Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man and more.
Lastly I do think Marvel becoming popular at a time when media was more accessible made a huge difference which is why there are so many marvel fans on social media today.
I view DC as a Symbols and Marvel as icons
In my 32 years of Reading Comics the first 11 years was exclusively Marvel with the x-men Titels at that. It was because I grew up in a Marvel only household because my father was the Collector at the time. I really started getting into DC when my girlfriend now Wife bought me a case of DC Heroclix boosters because she knew I lover the Game. So While I knew the big named Characters the minor ones were unknowns to me. I dove fully into DC buying trades and back issues and Fell in love with the DCU. Know it’s more a 50/50 split in my Comic reading.
That's awesome! I love Heroclix too! What are your favorite comics now?
Marvel fan boy here not going to lie been disappointed how much dc content you guys have been doing lately 😂
I hear you bro! I’m a Marvel guy myself, just need them to do something interesting so we can talk about it.
@TheComicsPals ya I hear that. I just started collecting and reading marvel omnibus 2 years ago so I got a big back log of stories to get through!
A key part of this discussion, and what defines Marvel, was Stan Lee's cultivation of brand loyalty. If you bought a handful of DC books, you were a fan of those characters or titles. If you bought a handful of Marvel books, you were a Marvel fan.
Stan Lee put that so deep into the Marvel DNA that it follows through to today, especially when we talk about relatability. He didn't only make relatable characters; he made sure you knew that Marvel equals relatability. In the modern age, you could argue Superman is more relatable than Thor or Iron Man, but people instinctively think otherwise because Stan branded them as such. I don't think people really appreciate how he did it. We even use their slogans ("The world outside your window.") when having this conversation.
In other words, Stan Lee created an appeal to Marvel, and being a Marvel fan, DC has never replicated. Saying you're a DC fan doesn't have the same level of meaning as saying you're a Marvel fan. I hope that makes sense.
True as always, Dan!
Stands Soapbox, Merry Marvelites, No-Prizes, etc ad infinitum... Stan could teach building brand identity to Coke! Helped that he had the better product in his early days
@@johnoglesby-vw7ck None of it would've worked without the better product, for sure.
Relatability has always been an ethos. People didn't just think Marvel is relatable because Stan said so; it's because they saw it on the page. DC has certainly gotten better at it, but while Batman and Superman are busy punching the next glowing multiversal deity in the face, Peter Parker is standing in his apartment trying to figure out how to pay rent. Tony Stark is doing his best trying not to open the liquor cabinet, and Bruce Banner is sitting in a cabin alone missing all the human interaction he has to avoid so as to not hurt people. And even if we don't have those problems, most of us have gone through something similar. DC heroes have problems, but considering they're equated to gods, it's still hard to see yourself in them.
@@vitreo1363 I didn't say it was just because Stan said so. It wouldn't have worked if they hadn't created characters that backed up the hype.
Hal Jordan can't get his personal life together because the only thing he's been good at is his job, and he once even failed at that in a major way.
Wally West is trying to raise a family that doesn't get swallowed in the craziness of superheroics.
Clark Kent has a job with deadlines, work friends, and lives in an apartment with his wife and son.
That's to say nothing of all the characters DC's introduced in the last several decades. Relatability is now baked into most heroes, thanks to the standard Marvel set. Iron Man's personal troubles aren't any more humbling than Bruce Wayne's. His alcoholism was a late addition to his character, just like DC's hung new things on their characters. The thing that kept Thor humble, Donald Blake, was taken out of the equation a long time ago.
DC's characters are not gods. They weren't even gods back in the early 60s. They were two dimensional power fantasies, and it took them a generation to figure out how to add layers to compete with Marvel. You're defining things the way Stan branded them, which shows just how good at it he was.
As for Sean's question of "where are the Marvel fans in this community?", it might be the case that many of the people who buy Marvel books are more causal fans than those of DC. They could be causal enough to not show up in online communities that are purely dedicated to the books. This might be a symptom of how old DC is with tighter knit and more developed communities, despite their small size. It could also be the case that because of the great diversity of Marvel characters that you guys described Marvel fans are more solitary, with smaller pockets of fandom surrounding the X-men, for example, or how there are so many fans who are solely into the Hulk or Spiderman, people who may or may not explore the rest of the cannon and thus be into a broader community like this one. Those people might show up for individual discussions or videos about the character they like, but then not return for anything else.
Spot on.
I am the marvel people! I am here!
I’m right here with you 👊🏾👊🏾
I think it has to do with how much we see Marvel on screen, either the Movie Screen, or the TV, with streaming. Even with the flops that have dropped from Marvel lately, it still has a way for people to see the brand and their characters. DC sadly hasnt had the luck to have a great representation of the brand, with failures of movies, tv shows, and so on. Consistency and familiarity is key, when it comes to distributing a product. DC lacks that when it comes to quality. I'm more of a DC fan, and that's mainly because I just enjoy the roster under the DC Umbrella. Marvel is awesome too, but there's just something about The Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman that have this aura of godlike persona's that just leave you in awe, when it's done right. Hopefully, James Gunn is able to show the casual audience how awesome their characters can be, when it has that consistency and familiarity that is slowly built up for years to come.
Also, fantastic takes on this topic. Keep up the great work!!
I also hope James Gunn can turn the public perception around on DC. Thanks for the kind words!
@MrbountyHunterD people especially in the mainstream dont care about dc outside of batman marvel is able to diverse its brand and character portfolio spiderman xmen hulk were already popular since mcu they added the likes of Ironman Cap Thor , Gotg, Black panther etc to have fans in the mainstream something equally reflected characters like moon knight daredevil dr strange having multiple titles, When has dc ever done the same thing in utilizing and pushing its bench of heroes outside the core JLA ? Outside of batman and Superman at a push ww the rest of their heroes simply dont the same broad appeal and marketable both in comics and mainstream. There are more 'Batman fans than there are DC Universe fans, while people who are Marvel fans are usually of the whole universe.
I don’t think marvel gets more respect than DC you just have a lot more casual fans watching the MCU. There’s your answer.
Except that this goes back to the 70s before the MCU. There’s your answer.
thats the difference marvel caught mass audience dc outside of batman and superman struggles to connect audiences to rest of there characters even if you want go by comics marvel sells more @villakeen
@@TheComicsPals I think you spot marvel have mastered dominance in both comics and movies they won over the reader but also the average joe this something dc simply cannot replicate
its both marvel have mastered the dominance in both fields not only does marvel sells comics and merchandising but they garnered GA audiences aswell both comics and movies marvel wins @Villakeen
@@TheComicsPals Marvel even in 1990s had a greater foothold of popular media they more cartoons on air
I've always been a DC comics fan. For me, DC has better stories. I also remember the late 80s and early 90s with Marvel comics and I would be so pissed with them. I was a big X-Men reader at that time. I hated when a comic switched writers. A new writer would come in ditch the old story line, a character would get kidnapped because the writer didn't want that character in his X-Men line-up, and things would radically change. Also, during this time period is when the 80 different comic covers for one issue was a thing. Marvel also went bankrupt. DC comics to me is the template. DC has icons.
Have you considered that maybe your Marvel people aren't traditional comic readers? Traditional meaning collecting for a long time. Maybe they just follow the movies, read a few books but aren't in it for the longterm? Just a thought.
As an old hat I will say this Sean is correct. Silver Age Marvel ignited the world it also had a lot of traction by being the world outside your window in their storytelling. DC even by the 80s were literally trying to sell them as this is not your Parents Superheroes. I love both and view both mostly on even footing but Society in general might like and appreciate DC Heroes but they have been more often the 2 of the Big 2. Something to note Marvel publishes more things gets more media out than DC even if DC has done more in the past Marvel was about getting people to know their Heroes where WB relies solely on Batman for quite some time now.
@Robeoters100 sean said batman dominated in 1990s he did but aside from batman and superman related dc never pushed it other heroes even i back to 1990s see marvel animated series for xmen spiderman hulk ff etc
It could be that Marvel has a TON of casual fans who don't say much and DC has a TON of serious fans, but much less fans overall.
Yeah there's definitely an aspect of this that's a part of it. But when you look at the Spider-Man and X-Men fandoms they're MASSIVE.
I think it's the fact there's a lot more channels out there discussing Marvel stuff, not just because it's a larger franchise, but also because of the massive success of the MCU. So they might discuss Avengers one day, Spider-Man the next, then X-Men, etc, and the fanbase might only follow one of those, or specific characters, therefore won't show up for the others.
DC OTOH doesn't have as much content to discuss, so when you create a DC video, it tends to bring in more of the DC fandom.
I’m a beginner comic book fan. For me, the things that got me interested in reading comics is watching those characters in tv and movies. I fell in love with the Avengers thanks to the mcu and Avengers EMH. I only started liking dc because of the DCAU.
Spiderman and his rogues were my favorite as a teen. In DC I only like Hourman, wildcat, and Batman. Maybe flash. But Marvel has been my thing. Ironman and hulk were favorites. Even Thor at one point. But traditionally it was spiderman
Do you know why Marvels characters appeal to you so much more?
@TheComicsPals they feel like real people and places. Also I like to see them overcome challenges. With Spiderman it was multilevel. I got to see the big apple and his personal struggles like taking care of Aunt May in Queens NY on Thames Road and hustling at work in Manhattan. As well as his villains being better than him in some regard. Plus his athleticism and one liners. It was mindblowing as a 7 to 13 year old. Ironman for his clear blatant flaws and incredible ingenuity. Inspiring. Hulk for his battle with his mind and when he was smart it was almost scary. Thor for how dumb he is but all heart, integrity and then power after enduring so much.
@@joelarmourYou must love the Zeb Wells run.
@mayotango1317 haha i haven't read Spiderman in over 15 years
It comes down to the characters. They had more interesting personalities and they interacted with each other in relatable ways. Also, the way Stan Lee infused his personality and his reaching out to the readership with a "Hey aren't we all having fun together creating and reading these stories?!" attitude made the readership bond with Marvel and that set the stage. And Marvel didn't stomp all over their continuity until it was a bloody corpse the way DC did. Eventually Marvel did do some of that and it was a sad "Day".
DC fans are more book fans and or people taken with the legacy. Marvel fans include movie fans! Marvel's long known for more personal stories! Lastly, think Superman paradox. He's too powerful for real drama, or even wide interest. Marvel fans, significantly casual fans, not all book and legacy fans, don't know or see supe's entertainment value. 'Oh, the all powerful guy. Flying in the cape!'
Exactly the Marvel fans are largely the casual audience and this point is further proven when Marvels axed shows like Avenger EMH to create an Avengers show that looks like the animated MCU (something casuals would be familiar with) and this even bled into shows like Ultimate spiderman.
Get most of the beloved characters wrong and DC fans will call you out (looks at Deadshot race flip in the Arkham universe to match the movie version). Zack Snyder's superman lacking that optimism the character is known for or Batman being a killer.
@@baki484 Marvel fans to this day haven't been enthused about Avengers Assemble either, hence why it was cancelled years ago. They're not the ones who decided to cancel EMH.
As for the differences between Marvel fans and DC fans, of course older generations are well familiar with DC and their biggest characters; they're cultural icons. But let's not ignore why it happened; the creation of Batman and Superman coincided almost exactly with the creation of television, which created a demand for all kinds of content, including fiction. This led to the creation of serials adapting many popular comic book stories, including Batman and Superman, not only for TV, but radio. And this happened YEARS before Marvel was established as a competitor, even in preliminary form as Timely Comics. Of course, any fans of the franchise would be best served getting more stories directly from the source material, but it cannot be understated how much the popularity of DC's most popular characters was owed to a medium other than the printed one. And this continued for years, with several film and TV adaptations of Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman, then DC was purchased by Warner Bros and they put all their financial power toward promoting the franchise in animation and film as well.
So yes, Marvel's fandom has grown through cinema since the turn of the century… but historically, so has DC's. Marvel was only able to use films more recently.
if dc fans more book fans then why does marvel outsell them since the 1970s @chieftain5571
Lots of factors, but I think the origin story is key to staying power. Batman, Superman have it, wonder woman is convoluted, flash and green lantern and others are blah. The stan and Jack characters have incredible origin stories, which gives later creators and movie and TV creators more emotion to work with and connect with audiences.
The Marvel origins feel so weird.
@@mayotango1317why?
For me, I like both companies (and others) and which I like the most depends on the era. Both companies have put out great stuff over the years, but generally I prefer silver age Marvel, the 70's are pretty evenly split (if forced I'd give a narrow edge to DC), the 80's is DC. I mostly gave up on comics in the 90's, but the stuff that I kept up with were the DC Vertigo books. I stopped collecting until about 5 years ago, and since then I think they're pretty evenly split...with A LOT more competition from indy publishers.
I’ve been predominantly a DC collector since the original Crisis. The difference between the Crisis and the Secret Wars is what pushed me towards DC back in the day.
good for you But dc is categorically less beloved and the numbers show it @eyrlll
When I started reading, in the 60's, Marvel was not as formulaic as DC, nor as overpowered as Supes( who lets face it, makes all other heroes into redundant). Stan the Man made being a Marvelous Marvelite an identifier to at least a couple of generations through good product and great marketing...for a while. Have not read comics in a decade or more, but was a huge collector and reader back in the day
Great conversation! I also would give a lot of credit to Stanley, not just as a creator but also a promoter. He done a bunch of media tours and force comics to people outside the stores. Also the characters are very reliable. And most of the characters at marvel felt like underdogs compared to the overpowered DC characters and a lot of people love to root for the underdog
I would argue that Marvel was always better at directing to the younger generation, and they did so without losing older folk (Yonger I say from kids to late teens). X-man, Spiderman, and Fantastic 4 captivate the younger audience so much more than Superman, Wonder Woman, and the JLA (and Titans don't get that much push by DC).
Great point!
I feel because their universe is more relatable and their comics are easier to approach. For example, you can sustain a whole readerbose purely on X-Men comics. And there are characters that belong to different tiers like street level, cosmic and mystical. It's very easy to distinguish where every character belongs and which titles connect thematically. Their continuity is a lot more straightforward unlike DC's because those guys reboot themselves with every crisis event or at least that's how it feels for an outsider.
That's bs. It's hard to jump into Marvel continuity
@@mr.dccomics9018 How is it hard?
@@christianvandom you gotta start from the very beginning. They never reset their timeliness like DC.
You can jump in at a lot of moments. Nobody is gonna start in 1939
You''re definitely right, and if you look at Marvel's publishing line right now, a person could read JUST X-Men books and still be reading somewhere around 15 titles. It feels neater and more organized than DC does.
The real fan shouldn't even have to choose. As a longtime comic book reader, I always read both. Great characters on each side. Not a chance people should even choose.
I'm with you. I love it all!
for me it depends on the characters, and in what media format (dc sucks a doing movies despite owning all their own characters, but their animated shows/movies are really good). they both still are constantly rebooting their series which drives me nuts and something things like Invincible, Spawn and Savage Dragon don't do.
Their animated movies have e kinda fallen off in my opinion and I wasn’t much if fan of their latest Batman cartoon
DC Super Friends was fun, but it looked and felt old compared to Spidey Amazing Friends and Hulk. Even Batman cartoon of the 90s was set in an old style, pulp story of the 40s.
Stan, Jack and Steve. And their lineage. Case closed.
They really did build something special. I don't think it's much more complicated than those names.
Really?
What I’ve heard about DC vs Marvel comics is DC has some comics that knock it out the park. But Marvel gets on base more often. Same with movies, they’ve had some great ones (mostly animated like Flashpoint Paradox) but Marvel has many things that you can hop into and casually enjoy. Same with other media like video games. Unless you’re a Batman fan or like Injustice no AAA game for your fav character. But Marvel has games for Spider-man, GOTG, Midnight Suns, Avengers (even though it’s kinda crappy) and of course the games like alliance that celebrate the wider universe
To add @jboy544, Marvel also has made solo games for ironman 3 of them actually, hulk Ult Destruction, the numerous xmen games and Wolverine games, even Deadpool DC simply just batman and injustice that is . There are no good Superman games, a ww game that is stuck in development hell, and there is still no Flash or Aquaman games @jboy544 The perception dc beats everything outside movies is flat wrong when Marvel sells more comics every month has a greater and more diverse plethora of successful games dc really 2 successful game franchises and sells more merchandising spiderman alone sells more merch than all dc combined. DC only won in animation, which is a comparatively small and niche market. Even Some could argue Marvel closed the gap in animation with the Spider-verse and across the spiders and Big Hero Six, which are all three Marvel films that have earned more than any and all theatrical DC animated movies such as Lego Batman movie or League of Supers Pets.
I think Marvel is more down to earth, and it's readers can picture themselves as the characters. For DC, I think its universe is more abstract, and the characters are larger than life. I think Marvel writes their stories to say that anyone can be a superhero, where DC says that we should look up to these larger than life figures such as Superman. Marvel has better movies right now, but with James Gunn in charge of DC, I think that will change.
I’m not sure how marvel is crushing it against dc for awhile but I will say they haven’t done the best they could to turn those fans of their animated movies, live action movies, shows, etc. to comics like putting an ad for the comic after trailers or show ends so it’s unrealized potential. Ironic how they don’t give in to the source but bleed it dry for content to semi adapt and they’re going through the good ones pretty fast. What could be next after Secret Wars? Idk
Yeah, for as many fans as there are of Marvel as a brand, they've done a poor job of converting those people into readers of comics.
Flawed heroes in comics are just more interesting, Marvel does this better.
Have to agree.
Before had that cynical touch.
Hey, I’m just into reading the same comic issue (Defenders) from your profile. What a coincidence
I love both. I grew up as a Marvel kid, all the way through my early twenties. After my break from comics (out of school I had no cash), I came back to comics around 2020, and I've leaned much more heavily into DC's ongoings and in my back catalogue reading/collecting.
Their elseworlds, legacy, and the general lore of their heroes really speak to me for some reason. I love their archetypal nature, and how their multiverse creates possibilities for unique interpretations alongside their mainline counterparts (like, as a mid-century American history nerd, Superman Space Age feels tailor made for me).
I do think the success of MCU has created a bigger, wider audience of casual fans and a deeper integration into the zeitgeist. The poor stewardship of WB (see their stock price lol) has had downstream effects on DC, including the failing of the DCEU. In the moden era, DC's just not been able to launch in a way thats captured the next generation in the broader culture.
Mcu that’s why. Prior to that DC was definitely was the more common favorite especially when it came to TV and Movies
I likes marvel from Character wolverine spider man deadpool the incredible hulk ghost rider blade
I don't think it's necessarily about one company being better than the other. Marvels characters are meant to be relatable. Dc's characters are meant to be aspirational. It''s when writers lose sight of this that either company's comics can begin to suffer in quality. I can always aspire to be a billionaire like Bruce, but I know I can always relate to Peter. Both narratives are equally enjoyable in the right hands.
DO people love Marvel *more* than DC? I mean, movies aside? I don't understand it. Both universes bring me joy
They both bring me joy as well! The real ones know not to limit themselves to one publisher or another.
I think there are some key factors to consider. 1) Marvel has a ton more casual fans, people who have only seen the movies say they love Marvel. 2) Marvel comics have more accessible jumping on characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, and X-Men were the only super popular books Marvel had until the movies came out, otherwise they would have sold the rights to Cap, Iron Man, and Thor when they were in bankruptcy. 3) Because of the accessibility of the core characters, more people buy those books before either falling off or becoming a full on collector. 4) DC comics stories/characters traditionally deal with ideals more so than realistic issues, and echoing what others have said, the characters are more “godly” and less approachable at DC. But that leads to grander stories (not necessarily better). 5) Marvel is owned now by Disney, good or bad Disney has the ability to make these characters come to life in parks that kids visit, so they are exposed to them way earlier.
@Jarlaxe023 Dc outside batman and superman never got huge casual fanbase even when look comics there more batman stans than dc universe stans
I have never definitively stated a preference for either. I sort of go through phases. I have been powering through Marvel omnis for much of 2024. But I'm aware that if I say Marvel is my favorite, I'll change my mind when I shift my focus back to DC. I will say this: I probably own more Marvel by a bit. Having said that, I'm fascinated by this topic because I have noticed DC fans voting more in Marvel/DC polls despite the sales numbers. Another great video, Pals!
Yeah, anecdotal but DC books win our polls most of the time. It's pretty wild actually. What Marvel omni's have you read so far? Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I'm more of a Marvel guy, although I do appreciate Kilowog, Constantine and The Question. However, I ain't finna argue with Snyder fans on Twitter or whatever.
DC has a Batman dilemma. He is their cash cow so they put everything into him. I don't think most people know that many DC characters outside of the big four (including Flash).
Yet at the same time people know xmen, avengers spiderman ff and even solo heroes/teams like Deadpool dr strange guardians of the galaxy even blade has higher awarness most second and third dc heroes due to the movies back in late 1990s and early 2000s @joelgenry5489 the depth and breath of marvel is simply incomparable to dc
Joelhenry5459 Its really just big 2 batman is huge and superman is huge although he is fading young gen flash and ww are known but not that popular by comparison with the GA.and the other dc heroes even futher behind
@@harryrao4296 I agree with everything word you wrote
This is 100% true
Just came here to say the title to this video is bullshit.
DC and Marvel have their own niche of fans but MOST comic book fans love both.
And NOBODY loves current MARVEL COMICS which currently cares nothing about their characters or well told stories. They use characters now for perverse purposes and they don’t give a shit about destroying the legacy of their iconic superheroes.
DC in part does the same but overall MARVEL takes the cake on shitting on their own characters.
This. 100%. I agree with everything you just said. It’s why I read anything Marvel before 2011 now. Except for a few stories here and there. For DC I’ll mostly read else-world books. Mostly Superman and Batman. Some Justice League.
I like both but love DC
DC is doing incredible things right now!
@@TheComicsPalsI'm one of few that are actually looking forward to james gun's universe. Iloved all his movies so Far Especially guardians of the galaxy 3
What?! I feel like people are generally hyped about it. I know I am!
@@TheComicsPals I just see a lot of jack snyder fans attacking him Any chance they get.
I think there's a couple of different factors. Marvel creating the " relatable characters" in Fantastic Four, the X-men and having a teen hero Spider-Man made them standout in 60s. DC is a hodgepodge of different comic companies that weren't creative organically like how Marvel characters were. When reading Marvel Comics it has the feeling of one continuous story that makes it more engaging versus DC which really didn't feel connected until after The First Crisis on Infinite Earths. I also think in media representation DC has put a lot of their eggs in Batman basket versus Marvel where Spider-Man, The X-men and The Hulk were dominant now we see that former B and C listers like Captain America, Thor, Ironman and Daredevil have achieved mainstream appeal thanks to MCU.
I'm not sure, as this is new information to me-did Marvel really dominate DC in the '70s? A possible guess could be that Spider-Man's popularity and strong sales helped introduce more people to Marvel, leading to favoritism, but I’m not convinced this applies specifically to the '70s.
Yes, they absolutely did.
When we say people are we talking about casual fans? Because I always see it that way. The general audience loves Marvel because of the movies. Their comics are simple to follow without backreading a lot of issues. The problem with DC is that they don't know how to market their heroes to the general audience outside of the Trinity.
When I say people I'm talking about every kind of person who would be inclined to enjoy superheroes. Marvel comics have outsold DC's since the 70's and of course we know what's happened in the film space.
Then watch the countless animated stuff that introduced a lot of DC fans to their roster of characters.
Dc does not know how to market their heroes outside Batman and to a lesser extent superman he is fading , you cant place ww in the same boat yes people know her but he nowhere near as marketable and popular @Theominibusprime4046
I am a huge Fantastic Four fan and was introduced to marvel through the Raimi/MCU and I've seen every DC movie, most animated shows/movies but I've only read a few DC comics all the way through. There's just something about DC that doesn't capture me as much. For whatever reason I get bored almost every time i read batman, I always feel like I never care too much about him and his supporting cast. I like Superman quite a bit more than Batman but even still... I care more about Alicia Masters than Batman.
Obviously the answer is the movies, as a Mexican who does not live in the USA, I can tell you that visual productions help promote the source material, DC or better say, Warner has not given focus to much of his other rooster of characters (it is incredible that during the timverse we did not have a wonder woman series) dc's problem is not distributing the weight of its personnel well. In mexico and brasil dc were more popular than marvel...but as the time goes on marvel has dominantes the market for the movies. And also the marvel universe is the same since the 60s. But dc not.
Movies help but this isn’t a new phenomenon, this goes back to 70’s.
@baniromasati4907@ look harder even looking at 1990s cartoons and influx of 2000s movies marvel gave heroes like ff hulk spiderman blade xmen movies and tv shows in 1990s and 2000s dc only pushed batman and superman there no flash gl or ww movies or shows in that time period.The mcu took this to another level
I’m a DC comics fan but I feel like media representation is very important and Marvel has been great at that for the last decade or so, while warner bros ruined the brand DC let’s be honest I feel like movies have a big huge factor here! All tho I prefer the comics and cartoons over the movies.
DC is my favorite, and in particular I'm a Superman guy. I like Marvel, especially the things that came out of the Fantastic Four and the X-Men; but they don't speak to me in the same way as the DC characters do. For both franchises I'll always care more about the comics than any other media. I feel like DC's problem is Warner Brothers. and corporate actors getting in the way of artistic decisions.
Imo Marvel only really seperates themselves in the comics and with the MCU. In both instances that have a very sturdy foundation that they built everything off of (Silver Age Marvel Comics with Stan Lee working with artists on virtually every title and MCU Phase 1 with Feige steering things towards the first Avengers movie).
DC's foundation both for comics and the late DCEU is much more unsteady, constantly reinventing themselves trying to pull all their various characters, storylines, and ideas togother on the fly.
But outside of the MCU and Comics, I think the differences in other media are negligable.
Also I believe that marvel age demographic are a lot broader than DC. I've seen multiple comic documentaries And when people were asked, they say they started with DC and grew into marvel. And we know that older people read more than children
I love both why dose it matter
Ultimately it doesn't! We love both too.
Imo, it's because Dc just has a more "You have to be an experienced person to understand it" feel to it.
With Marvel, it feels like it's dumbed down. (Not really obviously)
Spiderman is more popular in spiderman purely cause of Asia. Spiderman just sells so much merch.
Right now, Marvel publishes many more books every month, so they are going to dominate in the aggregate because of amount of product. Marvel became and remains more popular on the top end because their heroes have clear limitations and people relate to that. Who at Marvel is going to spin Earth backwards to turn back time? Also, Marvel leans heavily into the soap opera aspects and that appeals to audiences. DC is my favorite because I think they have more variety especially when it comes to villains. Just my thoughts and love your theories too!
Batman is the man among gods... and somewhat relatable like most of the world outside your window. Does DC have the success formula under their noses and not know what to do with it?
Batman is such a unique success it’s hard to apply that replication across the board at DC. So much of it is the iconography and the cool gadgets and villains.
When Superman was created in 1938, he was a manifestation of the New Deal values. He was a defender of the common man. Over time, with editor Julius Schwartz, Superman became ultra powerful and more scientifically based (as most heroes would be in their reintroductions in the mid 1950s).
If Superman was created today, he would feign the identity of an SJW RUclipsr … who would just so happen to be a scientifically advanced Kryptonian.
The defender of planet earth. Slowly he would work to scientifically improve earth with his Kryptonian technology and with help from the Legion of Superheroes from the 30th century.
He would be like the ancient alien theory in live-action 😀
Marvel is cooler. Or at least they were when most of the comic book audience was getting into comics. Marvel characters also have more interesting hooks, which helps when you’re moving into movies. The majority of the main Marvel characters are something else other than a superhero, even if they classically functioned as a superhero. When they get moved to movies, the vast majority of Marvels characters don’t even really function as super heroes...only the Sony made MCU Spider-Man functions as a superhero as far as MCU movie characters go, with Netflix’s Daredevil being the first MCU character (although he was fairly tentatively connected as those Netflix shows went on) that actually did super hero stuff and didn’t kill people like comic book super heroes traditionally try not to do. But DC characters were classically superheroes first, they’re all more or less different flavors of the same thing despite this or that power or origin.
The idea that DC hasn’t had the best track record of non comics media is completely bizarre to me. Marvel having media outside of the comics that’s good is like just the last three decades. DC characters on the other hand have basically always had good media outside the comics for about as long as they’ve existed. Superman starts in 1938, the Fleischer Superman shorts start in ‘41.
Serendipitously I had a similar conversation on this today in which a friend's kid asked him who his favourite Avenger was & he had no answer. He & I then got on a rant about how Marvel is slim pickings in terms of characters that connect for us, I named 3, he 6. We then rattled off double digit DC characters we love. Now the question of "but why though?" was broached. Out of it I expressed my perspective "superheroes are morality tales for children" that's fundamentally my opinion, and then a compare/contrast which lead to things like "Superman is Superman irrespective of what he's wearing, Peter Parker is Peter Parker irrespective of what he's wearing", "DC character are morality first, Marvel's personality first"; then got into soap opera vs myth, then legend vs religion. I digress to say, no one in that discord jumped in to big up Marvel during or since this discussion. I know there are Marvel heads who were lurking yet had nothing to say. Which is equally odd & telling.
Growing up my favorite marvel characters were hulk and Spider-man because they were relatable but on the DC Side I had Superman,Flash, Captain marvel,and beast boy- all of which inspired me to have hope(Superman), to show compassion( Flash), and to strive to be good even with the cards stacked against you(Captain marvel).
Well there's an exception for everything, no exceptions… I'd wager to say there's a character or franchise that parallels pretty much any DC hero, not necessarily b/c of having similar powers or personality, but in terms of the themes that play out in their stories. But Marvel tries to reach as many fans by design, so a character that might be relatable to your experience in one aspect of their life might be unrelatable in another, simply because Marvel might feel it would reach broader audiences. For example, I can probably relate to a few female superheroes for having similar experiences, but because they were female, I might feel it's not targeted for me. At the same time, I can probably go toe for toe listing Marvel characters I and many people can relate to, from Avengers, X-Men, Defenders, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. And of course, you can have a larger conversation about superheroes and what they signify in culture.
Marvel is popular because of...
Spider-man, he's the characters that all the kids will gravitate to when they are introduced to Marvel. It's something about that mask people like...anybody can be Spider-man.
2. Marvel has a lot of street level characters like Daredevil or The Punisher, etc. It's easier to adapt as a tv or movie.
Three, a lot of their characters' designs are a lot better. Ghost Rider looks way cooler than the Green Lantern. The hero's of Marvel have better costume. People like hero's that look like villians.
4. Marvel characters are willing to kill. They are not bound by the no kill rule so people can relate to them better.
5. Marvel marketing team for there other hero's like Xmen, Avengers, or Fantastic Four ways always better than DC. Marvel had no problem using there other characters who were less popular. Over time it paid off.
6. Stan Lee was probably the greatest ambassador for all of comics for many years. Decades. He was the icon of Marvel.
7. Marvel has the most vocal fanbase. So because people like them so much and are vocal about Marvel on social media. It makes the next cluless person wanna check Marvel out before DC.
8. The MCU and the video games are really good. Marvel is really good outside of comics.
So that's my 2 cents on why Marvel beats DC in popularity.
Wow, a whole list! Agreed on pretty much all counts.
The MCU never had good games.
Yet the Arkham series is what changed the perception around superhero games as it held that spot for year and debatably does. Beforw the arkham series the superhero games were nothing more that rushed movie cash grabs with games like TASM 1 and 2, Captain America supersoldier and even insomniac stating that it level of quality is what they are trying to achieve. Then DC got complacent.
The dark knight was influential enough for the likes of Sony to go for the "grounded" take with their spiderman movies
DC dominated in animation JLU, JL, BTAS, Static shock and Superman, under the red hood to name a few until they got complacent and marvel took over with into the spider verse.
Beyond spiderman and the X-men movies marvel was meh. It was the launching of the MCU that really put marvel in the public zeitgeist.
As a kid I mostly gravitated toward Batman, green lantern, flash, superman, Ben 10 and Generator Rex. Spiderman wasn't even a factor in all that.
Marvel's popularity comes from DC becoming complacent and the MCU which pulled the casual audience in while the DC brand was failing in movies giving it a negative image in the eyes of said casual audiences.
The end of the video talks about lack of marvel fans engaging with them further proving my point about the brand being pushed by casual audiences.
@baki484 DC biggest problem was the lack of leadership. WB and DC is always going into a state of flux behind the scenes. They are always unstable behind the scenes. Mergers, different President's of company. People are getting fired or leaving the company.
DC is never stable with good leadership behind the scenes.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Like Marvel now.
I think that DC has some problems with making their characters more popular, and that makes them focus almost only on Batman and Batman related characters, not only in movies and games but also in comics. Static could be "DCs Spiderman" but they don't invest in the characters while Marvel, as i see, invest in more characters, so the general public understand Marvel as a big brand not only one or two characters, wich sadly happens with DC. At least here in Brazil we have this problem. DC should start putting more effort on least known characters such as Zatanna, Mr. Terrific, Static, Dr. Fate, Black Lighting and others, bring the heavy weight creators on those characters on a monthly magazine not only on 6 issue series. At the same time they also need to understand that they are not Marvel so don't try to copy their formula, just do a better job at marketing, making the characters more popular in medias outside comics.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate because I do believe that DC has fantastic characters, they have just struggled to get the public to care about more than a handful of them, and they’d not a new thing.
Also, hello to you commenting all the way from Brazil! That’s awesome, thank you for watching.
you have hit the nail on the head, @gutavosouza5009. Marvel draws upon an entire universe; people watch Marvel films and read Marvel comics because Marvel DC is a brand more defined by Batman and, to a lesser extent, superman. This does not only extend to movies and cartoons but equally to comic sales. Second and tier Marvel heroes like Moon Knight, Dr. Strange, daredevil, Venom and black panther have recently been able to carry 2 to 3 titles by themselves and have garnered popular creators like Jed Mckay Cates and Zdarsky . Dc b and c tires get a mini-series here and there that nobody reads. Marvel gives entire universe greater representation, diversity and visibility all in fronts
@gustavosouza5009 when was the last time DC had a breakout black hero? Marvel pushed black panther blade and recently Miles Morales into the mainstream. When was the last time DC pushed an Asian hero into the mainstream? Shang Chi and Ms marvel were more known than the likes of Ryan Choi Atom or even Blue Beetle? It this kind of diversity and representation where marvel eclipses dc
@@harryrao4296 You have a point. I think when it comes to asian heroes and lgbt heroes DC does a "decent" job (theres several heroes but they're not that relevant, theres still a lot of work to do). But when we talk about Balck Heroes theres a lot of wasted potencial about characters already stablished but still not actually relevant on dc universe. DC has everything to have a great black hero big as Black Panther (theres Mr. Terrific, Static, Black Lightning, Vixen, John Stewart, Steel, Cyborg and others, but it looks like dc has been trying to make Mr Terrific more relevant) but DC dont invest in them enough. I think that the MCU helped Marvel a lot because since marvel invested in asian and black characters on movies that reflected on comics and now those characters are more relevant and sell more, so i think that DC should let Batman rest a little and start invest in those characters on comics but also outside comics. I would really love a Mr Terrific series written by Tom King or a Black Lightning written my Coates (he did an amazing job on Black Panther) and see them in movies and series with a decent budget.
The way I see it, Marvel is a lot more beloved than DC for the simple fact that Marvel has a whole plethora of characters that they delve into, and people can enjoy and somewhat relate to with many of these characters on so many levels because they give so many of their characters love and opportunities to shine that in the case of DC they only focus mainly on pushing Batman, Superman, Flash, Green Latern, Justice League, JSA, and Teen Titans mostly and that's really all. Marvel has a plethora of teams and characters that people can read or watch and enjoy, and if there was a character or team they didn't quite enjoy then you had many other characters and teams you might love better. For example if you don't really care for the inhumans then you have the X-Men or if you don't like Silver Surfer you have Ghost Rider to name a couple.
Jsa since when do people care about JSa especially in the mainstream i would wager right now wanda loki or black panther have more fans than JSA and Green lantern especially amongst casual audiecnes @ThorGoatinson
@harryrao4296 I'm simply talking about the characters or teams that they push forward in contrast to Marvel, who pushes a plethora of their characters and teams forward about 2 times the amount 😅
@@ThorGoatinson But in terms awarness more people know Phil coulson amongst GA than the JSa
@@ThorGoatinson Marvel pushes every corner of its universe xmen , avengers, ff spiderman, street tier heroes, cosmic mystic, etc. Does DC push JSa? how much screentime or books have they had. Is dc or marvel more popular in your area?
@harryrao4296 Marvel, but I agree with you. I just didn't want to type out everything Marvel pushes like you did because it is a lot, and that's what I love about Marvel. DC just doesn't hit the same way Marvel does, and that's just facts.
Marvel by default because of X-Men. Outside of Batman or sandman/hellblazer not much DC for me.
is it not more down to the success at Marvel of Spiderman and the X-Men, and that they are just more popular than Superman and Batman? DC can do whatever it wants, but it can't do Spiderman or the X-Men. outside of these two properties, does Marvel really have such a lead over DC?
I mean if you remove Spider-Man and X-Men you would also have to remove Batman and Superman, no? And if you did that, DC has nothing with respect to general interest.
Yes they do Marvel have a entire cinematic universe that did not rely on spiderman and xmen take batman and superman and spiderman and xmen away both companies marvel would still crush dc ironman cap thor hulk ff etc beat the likes flash ww gl in mainstream popularity and exposure @richardhunter132
even Outside of spider-man xmen marvel still have deeper roster characters especially mainstream the likes of deadpool thor cap ironman even right now gotg black panther beat the rest of dc lineup outside of batman and superman @richardhunter132 comic sales and box office proves this
@@harryrao4296 I disagree. DC has Flash, the Green Lantern, Swamp Thing, John Constantine, and Sandman. it also published the Watchman and V for Vendetta. imho, DC has produced far more sophisticated and interesting comics than Marvel over the years, who largely confine themselves to super-heroes
Imo, DCAU had that best balance. DC's best been more in television than films. Marvel had better success in films than television
Before DCEU, we only had Reeve's Superman films & Burton/Shumacher Batman films. Besides those 2 we had Steel, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex and imo they didnt flop because of alittle humor in them, rather the story/plot of those films were flat out bad.
Marvel for a time had better creators. John Byrne, Roger Stern, Denny O'Neil once all Marvel when they went to DC wow. But you got to repair all the stuff, previous inferior creative teams did. Again for a time Marvel took bigger chances on characters.
Marvel is more likeable amongst comic readers with their characters, and better stories. People know more characters from Marvel than DC. How many big DC characters do people know past Superman, Batman, WW, JLA, JSA?
People dont know the JSA especially in the mainstream public ask most name jla they name big 6 thats it
I think there's one factor not mentioned in the video. Marvel's relentless self-promotion beginning with Stan Lee. Everything has those adjectives, like Fantastic, Amazing, Incredible, or even Uncanny. His messages ended with "Excelsior!".
Marvel was always better at spinning everything into something positive. Heroes Reborn in the 90s should have been the ultimate embarrassment, but they made it look like it was the greatest thing ever.
You are absolutely correct and I wish we had spoken about this. Stan Lee's legacy has been run down, but the man deserves a lot of credit for what he helped Marvel become.
I find interesting that one of the complaints that Marvel fans have against DC is that their character are too OP. Yet, they love anime like Dragon Ball Z and the like...so, make it make sense.
You’re saying that as if every single person who likes Marvel has that complaint AND watches DBZ.
Marvel is billed as "The world outside your window", and that's the truth. The characters were ordinary people with ordinary problems in extraordinary situations. They were, for the most part, more grounded in a firm reality. DC stories featured characters with god-like abilities, near-flawless morals, and fictional locations out the wazoo. DC could be enjoyed, but actually living in the world of Marvel seemed more attainable. But if you wanted to reinforce the "comics are for kids" stereotype, you needn't look further than DC who played it very safe for most of their existence.
I like DC heroes more because the seem more like actual heroes. They genuinely want to help people. Marvel heroes hate their powers and are always complaining that they don’t want to be heroes.
I can see where you’re coming from with that. I think the difference in my mind is that Marvel heroes are often burdened by power they didn’t necessarily want or ask for and that power causes issues in their personal lives.
@@TheComicsPals which is why I like dc heroes more. They are genuinely good people and care and protect those who are unprotected and exploited. Sometimes when I read Spiderman comics and I see Peter Parker complain so much. I’m like “ you’re literally a superhuman genius, stop complaining and do something with your life “
It’s mainly due to MCU
dc problem are the hero are god like where the point that they either have to nerf the hero or way too over power that it unbelievable to get hurt by a street level character. the reboot hurt the worldbuilding and estabish lore, chararacters and so on lead to discoonnect. the many mcguffin and plotarmors hurt too. the redemption of villian, rewriten or retcon.
superman is overpower that his villian list should be lex, zod, parasite, metallo, atomic skull, intergang, mercy, red cloud, blanque, eradicator, xa-du, lobo, rampage, mongul some other coluan specie character. someone who carries superman weaken around, have access to high alien tech or can match supermen in strengh but aren't too power.
darkseid, brainiac and doomday should be group level threat not just superman villians
It seems to me that if it was politics, DC would be conservative and Marvel would be liberal.
Because of the MCU
This predates the MCU by decades.
Marvel is more popular for general audiences. But specifically with comic book reading fans, it's a lot more back and forth.
Not if you go by sales. Marvel has been the dominant comics seller since the 70's.
@@TheComicsPalsno sir 😂
yes back and forth which is why marvel been number comic seller since 1980s @Obiwan90 so dc only outsells marvel for a few months in 30 years it makes it 50/50?
@@harryrao4296 mainstream audiences buy comics too, calm your tits
And real locations
I definitely think this helps!
Mcu plays a big factor … People dont know about DC that much… James will fix that. People will finally learn how awesome DC is
I surely hope you’re right.
@kyymalvados5874 Even if Gunn fixes that DC will reach level of infinity war or endgame every time dc tried much lesser characters its never worked out for them , they never able catch marvel in absolute numbers Yes mcu is a huge part dont marvel had ff xmen blade spiderman hulk movies and shows before that exposed their brand dc having resting completely batman/superman for decades
@@harryrao4296 yeah and thats why I mean James has taken characters in the Mu that aren’t know and In the DC.. People hella know Teen titans … Green Lantern … Flash Ect but the poor management of these other characters over the many years at WB as made a big impact if people care or not .. I feel with Gunn at the wheel finally someone who knows about comics will be able to shed positive light again
@@kyddmalvado5874 Again just Gunn did for marvel does mean did for dc even push the likes flah gl and Titans marvel still outnumber DC in terms of public recognition people know from dc batman, superman , ww flash gl at a push aquaman arrow and titans that's 9 vs marvel which has spiderman , wolverine/xmen hulk ironman cap thor gotg antman dr strange captain marvel shang chi fantastic four even blade and daredevil that like 17 vs 8 not even close
@@kyddmalvado5874 Gunn tried to push obscure characters TSS that the movie bombed even by COVID standards, and Peacemaker show fewer views than Secret Invasion. The notion people jump on obscure heroes now when they done it before is misguided. Creature commando comes in 2 months, and nobody is talking about, especially in the GA.
I think it’s the artist that we’re coming up in those times, most of the image founders worked on more Marvel stuff than DC, there comics had great artist, plus the movies now are kinda a staple, everyone knows them without even being fans, I prefer DC