The Truth About Hydrostatic Tractors
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Are hydraulic tractors more reliable than gear drive transmissions
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The internet provides a lot of great & easily accessible information, however it also gives a platform to people who:
1) Don’t know crap and comment with stupidity
2) Are angry with life (or having a bad day) and comment with stupidity
3) Use the keyboard to display their superior knowledge and comment with stupidity
4) Want to be something more than they are so instead of actually getting off the couch & doing things they comment with stupidity
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No matter how much one thinks they know, there’s no end to learning because all really learn is how much they don’t know. Kinda like no matter how much of a tough person one might be, there’s always someone tougher😱
As always, Thank you for sharing your journey & experiences and for creating a place where people who want to learn more and helps others gather 🙏🏼
I work as a mechanic for a Deutz-Fahr dealer. Most tractors we sell in 140 hp+ are hydrostatic. Those transmissions never fail. I have no idea how they work, that's how good they are.
If it works on the big pullers, it will most likely work in a small tractor too.
Brock......I totally agree with you. I have a JD 2007 4720 I purchased new. I use it for everything...food plots, grading, mowing, dirt, gravel etc etc. I have never had an issue with the Hydro transmission. I have bogged it down in the past when I over loaded it, but simply slowing down or switching gears solved the issue. thanks for presenting the video. Bob
I was a facilities manager at a school district with 85 acres to maintain. I purchased a John Deere tractor with a hydrostatic transmission around 18 years ago. That is the toughest tractor I’ve seen. It has been abused by many operators for years and still works great absolutely no trouble with the transmission. I bought a MX5400 gear drive to replace my 1950 8N Ford. I bought the gear drive just because I like gear drive tractors not because one is better than the other. But a gear drive is not very forgiving if you don’t have experience with gear drive tractors. I would recommend most people stick with a hydrostatic transmission. Thanks for a great video Brock.
Did you pull a lot with the tractor?
Good morning Brock. As you know I have a 2007 John Deere 2305 with the hydrostatic transmission. It is a literal beast. I have used it to pull down 90 to 100 foot trees clearing a lot that we bought next door and it has never let me down. That being said, I go out of my way to keep up the maintenance on my tractor. I keep it greased, I check the oil every day before I start it up, I also check the hydraulic oil level every day. Anyway, my opinion is that these tractors are a lot tougher than people give them credit for. A lot of people think that they are just overgrown lawn mowers but nothing could be further from the truth. Just one old man's opinion. God bless and have a wonderful day. 👍👍🙂
I have a 40 HP LS with hydrostatic drive and I don't want anything else. It's just so much easier to use
Informational thanks . new tractor owner
I am with you. I have a 4052r Cab tractor, and I want to work it. I dig holes for planting trees, I bent my forks pulling roots, I leave it to run when working in the summer for AC, and in the winter for heat. If you are not going to work it, sell it. Also, skid steers have had hydrostatic drives since the early 80's.
Great video. I appreciate your channel, I’ve learned a lot. It seems that there more opinions about tractors out there than there are tractors 😊
Don't let the haters gaslight you, Brock! I really enjoy your channel. Thanks!
I've got a full size utility tractor. JD 5400. Gear drive, I'd give anything to have a hydrostat.
Soon, we will (hopefully) be buying something several steps down in size, and it WILL have a hydrostat.
And after seeing the work you do on yours, I'm not so afraid of something your size
Brock totally agree on every point that you make today! That said, I just last week bought a New Holland TC40D Hydrostatic 2003 year model tractor w/a loader and one SCV. It is in great shape and was never abused. All sheet metal Is in excellent condition and mechanically everything operated as it should. The only thing that initially gave me pause was that the tractor has 3,900 hours on it and still counting.. I went and operated it and came home with it that day. The hydro transmission is as strong as any I have currently and all systems operate perfectly… point is with proper care the hydros will outlast 99% of compact tractor owners today. My purchase price was $11,000 cash. I super happy to have it. I was taught many moons ago that. when arguing with a fool…. The general public watching can’t tell which one is the fool….. I really enjoy you and the channel brother !! 👍👍🔥🔥
Totally agree with you. In all reality I believe that a hydrostatic transmission is more robust than a gear drive. The hydrostatic pump when it is overworked will go into relief which is a "fuse" or "circuit breaker" as once you get below relief it works just fine. A vast majority of gear drive compact tractors will need to replace the clutch at some point because they get burnt up.
Reminds me of the old automatic vs manual transmission debates for hot rods and heavy duty trucks from decades ago. High horse power and high torque meant "you had to have a manual transmission" or "you would blow up the automatic". And yes, clutches are wear items that need changed over time. Look at the truck market now. The big 3 don't offer a manual transmission in their heavy duty pickup lines. I don't worry about my hydrostatic transmission on my tractor. I believe there are tasks where gear drive would work better, but those are a very small minority of the tasks that I use my tractor for.
For loader work of any kind and moving snow the hydro works best for me !
Great video. I have a large frame 25 hp shuttle shift tractor. Most of the time, it's great mowing. When I'm done loader work, I would love to have a hydro. Because I always go into a pile in the lowest gear. After I get the load, I switch direction and range of transmission. I believe that most people burn up their clutch because they don't want to switch the range of the transmission to save time.
I bought my 2008 jd2520 used in 2011. I did not get it to look at, but to work. I’ve skidded logs for firewood, plowed land, plowed snow, chipped brush, hauled trailers- pretty much everything except cut grass! Like you I use my equipment to its max. I do not consider that abuse. Have a good day!
Please make a video of all of the Booths at Equip Exposition This Year!
Hey Brock great video, I have a Kubota M6060 gear drive tractor and recently purchased a Kioti CS2520 hydro and kinda wondered about this very topic, how well will my little Kioti hold up if I work it hard, now I have confidence to just use the tractor for what it was meant for, work.
You got your Latin absolutely correct! Did you remember that I’m a Latin teacher? Keep up the great work - - Hydro-stats can do anything.
Check out the Messicks video where he compares 2 new identical tractors except one is hydro and one is gear drive. The hydro pulled 1130 pounds, powered out and wouldn't break traction, the gear drive pulled 3066 pounds and spun the tires. I like the idea of hydro because of the convenience of not having to clutch and change gears or change shuttle direction. But I couldn't trade power for convenience, after all thats what a tractor is meant to be. I'm running a massey ferguson 451 gear drive with shuttle.
Yeah, everybody knows about the power difference
How is addressing a specific topic that is frequently raised on my channel what is about reliability
That was a good video because manufactures understate the power difference
Also, a lot of commercial tractors are hydraulic, skid steers, excavators, dossiers, track loaders, etc. Do you think they take it easy on them 8-16 hours a day. I have both types of tractors, love them both and work them to there capacity plus some.
I think an interesting conversation would be about the evolution of hydrostatic transmissions. They have been around for over 30 years and have been improved upon in that time. You mentioned that a cooler exists on your newer tractor. Did coolers exist 30 years ago? What problems did they originally have and explain how they were overcome through better engineering.
That whining noise is the noise a hydraulic motor makes. When I was a machinist a lot of the CNC Machines are hydraulic, make the same noise any time they are under load. Normal sound of the hydro motor.
Things I didn't expect to learn from Brock at Rockhill Farm today:
1. The Latin origin of the word Tractor.
😂
According to the oxford dictionary. "a powerful motor vehicle with large rear wheels".
So our little machines aren't technically tractors according to oxford....
I've had people tell me that you shouldn't turn the front tires on a truck with the 4WD kicked in. They must stop at the first turn and wait until everything dries up!
I never ran a tractor until I retired and bought a 1025R. I've had it for 2 years and have almost 200 hrs on it. A buddy of mine mocked me because it had a hydrostatic instead of the "proper" geared transmission. I use it mostly to turn over my compost pile and to groom the gravel road in our little development. It does everything I need it to. Well, I sure would like a nice 4 series with a cab for those cold winter days. Maybe in a couple of years when I'm older and grumpier.
Intelligent and well-reasoned - as always, I might say. Until catastrophe hits, then you'll know you're doing it right. And we know if you _do_ encounter some catastrophic failure, you'll be honest about it.
Brock. I have a 2025R these machines work way out of there weight class. There built to work. Keep up the great job
Great... video
Thank you for sharing...👍👍
I personally purchase a 1023E
the beginning of the year... And it's amazing what these tractors could actually do... 😎
Hydrostatic have improved over the years. Just look at TTWT and his lineup of tractors. He only has one gear drive tractor. Plus, in the construction world most skid steers and small loaders are Hydrostatic .
I have lots of tractors and I truly don’t like the smaller hydro tractors . But on the other hand for a loader tractor they work well . I know a horse farm with a 5200 kubota hydro and has close to 7000 hrs still going strong and works 7 days a week . I like gear tractors better but that’s just me personally. I have a 545 D and it’s just like a backhoe it has a toque converter it Also is an 8 speed hi-lo 4 gears .
I bought my first tractor recently after spending months researching what I needed. I was concerned about getting a hydrostatic tranny at first because I didn’t know how they work. After I did a little research and understood the physics behind hydro vs geared, I felt the geared type to be more problematic, especially for what I’m doing. I’ve been really happy with my hydrostat. I think it just comes down to people not knowing the actual difference in how the 2 systems operate.
I love your videos! Keep up the good work!
I wish I could talk to you! These are all good questions, but the answers go in many directions! I have owned a Ford 8N, a JD318, a JD 4110 hydrostatic and JD1025, and a Z530M with two hydrostatic transmissions!
I ran an old John Deere 310D backhoe when I first got into excavating, it was my first experience with a hydro-stat transmission, it was the strongest, most reliable, and easiest machine I had ever ran! I dug septic systems and used the backhoe for everything including cleaning up the yard. It was way less boggy than the case I was previously running. Also it was my first wobble stick machine and I fell in love!
I have had two on the same machine Massey Furgason with a 3speed shutle. I have not had any issues with my Branson Hydro
People anymore just want to complain, even if they have no idea what they are talking about. You're doing right in the way you treat that tractor. I've never seen you do anything close to extreme as far as it was built for.
I have a 30+ year old 40hp Kubota with shuttle shift, clutch work requires more labor than changing hydraulic fluid and a filter.
Polly Parrots and Negative Nellys are the reason the world has earplugs!
I used an old Mahindra 30 horse to pull a round bailer. You can do it.
Great video! Thanks Brock!
By that logic you will have to get rid of your skidsteer because it's hydraulic powered also. They will also have to get rid of the car or truck(s) they drive because automatic transmission(s) Hydraulic powered equipment has been around for years. It's not something new just like electric cars. They have been around as long as gas powered cars. I've had gear and hydro tractors and they work just fine. Don't worry about it Brock. Just keep doing what you're doing.
Hst vs gear is just like a regular lawnmower vs a ztr. Big advantage.
Each one has advantages in certain areas you will have more problems out of gear drive because the clutch is the weakest link on the older tractors you had to split the tractor to change the clutch
Howdy Brock! I'm not using my 25hp subcompact all day every day.. It is coming up on 10 years old now. For general purpose work and ease of use, hydrostat has been the way to go for me. I'm not doing any PTO heavy work with it, so I don't really need that little bit of HP I lose to the PTO with a hydrostat. When (wife says IF) I get a bigger tractor in that 55hp range, and I determine I won't need to do a lot of starting and stopping, speed and direction changes, I may go with a shuttle shift. But man... a hydro-static drive sure spoils you lol! Guess when I get serious on buying one, I'll get serious about how I'll use it, and make the determination then. Good stuff and thanks for sharing 🤠
My grandpa changed the clutch on his 2005 Massey Ferguson gear drive twice in 15 years, but it wasn't a hard fix on there and it wore out so much because he always rode it a bit when he was driving
Hey Brock. 98% of those comments they probably don't even own a tractor gear/ hydro. Everyone has an opinion just like everyone has a button belly, they are made to be use and abused
Belly button or use the true term, arsehole👍👍
I agree 100%. I bought my LX2610 to work. Neil Messik made a video talking about hydro vs shuttle. Shuttle gets serviced more.
Many years ago it went like this...
"You know those new fangled tractor things aren't as good as team of mules don't you?"
I just want a hydrostat because shifting gears is annoying, I'm over it.
My 21 hp L 2500 is a work horse I've done things with most people wouldn't do . Dragging logs 3 times what it should, I only use the split brake to steer front wheels off the ground 2 ft. So don't let them get in your head.
Don't let em get you down. They are wrong. Love my hydro way better than gear. Use what u got. Might have to take smaller bites but get it done. Love the vids.
People making comments like these, apparently don't understand the simple basic concept of the HST.
A hydraulic pump driving a hydraulic motor (the primary drive) a gear mechanism for range selection (secondary drive) Other than a small amount of parasitic power lose as a result of power transfer the HST transmission should be superior to a gear transmission. I would not be afraid of pulling a reasonably sized plow with a properly sized tractor. Do you destroy your accessorie hydraulic pump by working front end loader hard? Hydraulic theory is the same regardless of the final result of the work performed.
The dynamics of the conversation or debate on this issue remind me a lot of some I've heard concerning someone's choice of a 270 rifle. Or the old "tastes great" vs "less filling" skits. They all contain an element of "You can't use that" or "That will never work". They'll never end.
When growing up, I'd hear the advice "consider the source." I think that's good advice, but not always easy to apply. To it, I'd add: The passions or the production values, or the extent of the factory sponsorship of the one making the argument don't always make them right.
If you think you've heard a lot on this subject, just wait until people start to see you using your blue (or any color other than green) tractor.
Hydrostatic and gear drive are good, though powershift is probably the best. I really like my hydrostatic track loader, best thing for a bobcat doing a lot of loader work. I prefer my gear drive tractors for field work mainly because it uses less fuel.
We bought a 2025R with a Hydrostatic Transmission. We wanted that transmission for safety reasons...
96 Ford New Holland, Hydro trans. 1st Hydro trans. Some getting used to how it works. I can tear up an anvil so I know I'm hard on equipment, both use and lack of preventive maintenance. Digging hard with the bucket loader, I've learned to use lower range and get smarter on digging. I was worried about pulling a 5 ft disc with a 20nhp tractor. Less depth, slower speed on 5 acres and more passes. I'm retired so its just more time away from youtube!
As you know my entire career has been applying hydraulic equip. Briefly a hydrostatic transmission is a variably pump coupled to a fixed displacement motor, protected by relief valves and check valves. Due to inefficiencies it can only output about 85% of its input power. The biggest dangers to a hydraulic system are dirt in the oil, heat 200f or more, and water in the system. With proper maintenance hydraulics will outlast gear drives. Mechanical has an advantage of higher efficiency, 95%, but the engine may not be working at peak power? A mechanical transmission starts wearing from day one.
Brock, if you are making hay you "should" have a larger gear drive tractor. Not because the hydrostat wont hold up, but because a larger tractor is more suited to the job. Your tractor is gonna limit you on the typed of hay equipment and make the job less efficient. With that said, I dont know anyone who wouldn't love to have a machine that is more suited for the tasks they do, but it doesn't make financial sense. Also, what works for you, may not work for me and vice versa... ignore the haters.
Hydro is reliable. It has much less parts than a gear drive. I have two gear drives and often wish i had a hydro, but im afraid once ive been spoiled with a gear drjve i might be disappointed with the hydro
Not that I think you are over taxing your tractor but if you are that’s yours to do.
Great video! Keep doing you sir! I own the JD 3035, which is a shuttle shift. I can absolutely see where they clutch will go faster than a hydro trans. Definitely enjoy and work my machine, but see where I might’ve made some different decisions on models knowing what I know now. Love your videos sir!
Caterpillar 973 has a hydro trans its a large track machine if they failed Caterpillar wouldn't use them
after a while won't all transmissions fail?
There's a reason hydrostatic tractors and gear tractors coexist. They have different use cases.
That said, a lot of folks underestimate compact tractors.
My grandfather worked the heck out of his little Power King tractor. That thing was probably 10 or 12 hp...
In my experience you lose a lot of power with hydro. Example... pulling stumps and roots. With my old gear drive tractor when you let out the clutch (assuming no clutch slippage) it would either pull the stump, spin the wheels, stall the tractor, or flip over (never happened fortunately). With my newer hydro tractor when performing the same job the tractor will sometimes just sit there whining at me while the hydro relief valve goes into bypass. No stalling, no wheel spin, no movement. Very disappointing. I still prefer the convenience of hydro for most jobs.
Does you machine have a gear Hi and Lo? My JD 1023E will stall in Hi but in Lo all four little wheels simply spin.
@@daddio7249 Yes, it's a JD 2720. High is useless for anything other than roading.
I have no idea why everyone is so afraid of gear drive, it's not rocket surgery.
Talk on
My tractor will probably die based on all of their comments because I pulled 5 loads of gravel at 16k each. I got 32 more tons to move tomorrow.
Going from hydrostatic to gear, I'll take hydrostatic all day. Durability? Lol I've seen more clutch and gear/dogs issues than hydrostatic issues. Yes, most around are afraid to use their tractor; they think it hits 1000 hours and the machine is shot. People are ridiculous. The term "burning up" the hydrostatic system is funny wording proving they have no clue how the system actually works.
You could add to your resume of qualifications that you are friends with Paul Case and he owns over 800hp worth of tractors!
RUclips, Facebook, tractor forums, and all social media is less than a 1% sample size of owners. In other words, it's so small the good and bad is pretty much useless information.
I am getting berated for showing welding on screen because I am "going to blind people!!!" People don't always think their comments through. Lol They just want to belittle. Reminds me of the old saying, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Put that tractor to work, Brock!
UV rays travel through the internet. Everybody knows that.🙄🙄 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@projectswithjw wait, you guys don’t watch RUclips videos with a welding helmet on just in case
Safety first
The hydraulic pump that drives the drive train has a over pressure bypass valve on it like every hydraulic system. When you overtax the system, the oil goes through that valve ( it differs from tractor to tractor ) mine is set to 2600 psi and the pump is made to run that kind of pressure. So you can't break a hydrostatic transmission by trying to pull to much. The PTO is a different animal and you can over tax the system using it. But the hydraulic system is made to run at the set pressure of the safety valve. My Yanmar has a 10 year warranty on the hydrostatic drive train . They would not do that if it was a finicky part of the tractor. For the most part it is a lack of weight that hampers the pulling ability of a compact tractor. You'll just spin the wheels and bury the thing. When my 6 foot box blade fills up and I am going uphill, I just don't have the traction to pull the thing and I have to let some out. People that tell you that you'll tear up a hydrostatic by trying to pull to much clearly have no understanding of how the system works.
Yes sir
Hydro is nowhere near as reliable as a gear driven especially in a small tractor. You lose hp at the pto according 2 different tractors I bought new form dealer.
Your first question, why would you buy it, well you sure wouldn’t buy it to pull a 2 bottom plow.
I have 810 hours on my tractor and I spent half of one hour finding out if I could pull a plow
Definitely not what I bought the machine for, but I was curious
@@RockhillfarmYT yea I was just busting balls. I seriously thought it would do it. I think it just needs a third range.
Is that the same tractor I was watching you put upgrades on and lifting a car?? Now that I was thinking was going to break it in half. When you see me bustin balls just fire back. It’s all good. 👍
@jacobhendrickson8935 same Tractor.
This is the John Deere 2038R. The 3038 has a three range and would definitely do it.
@@RockhillfarmYT it looks bigger in the video where your upgrading the cylinders.
@@RockhillfarmYT wow I was just looking up the specs on that and it’s like JD built a good sized compact then tried to make it look more like a riding mower. That’s a much larger tractor than I thought, it must be those small rear wheels or something
It seems to me that this is just another of those chest puffing personal opinion issues for the permanently butt hurt to argue about. Both types of transmissions have strengths and weaknesses and both get the job done. If hydrastatic transmissions were junk then I would think we'd see all those skid steers out there getting beat to death day in and day out on construction sites in the shop for repairs all the time. We don't.
I have a gear drive, a JD 3043D and it does everything I ask of it. I'm sure a 3039R would work just as well. I bought a gear drive because it was less expensive, I need as much weight as I can get with my tractor and there isn't a real advantage, at least for me, that could justify the extra cost of hydrastatic drive. And, I just like a gear drive tractor. I also like stick shift transmissions in my cars and trucks.
I'm weird that way, most likely because I grew up with gear drive and stick shifts and it's my comfortable spot.
It's an old guy thing.
I know it on the thumbnail, but I’m not trying to make the case that a hydrostat is better than a gear drive
I’m basically trying to debunk the idea that a hydrostat is really fragile and using it will break it
@@RockhillfarmYT That's what I took away from the video. You've proven the point by the way you use your tractor. You USE it! As it should be. I think both types of transmissions have proven themselves and it all comes down to the way a guy intends to use his machine and cost. I don't think one is objectively better than the other, just two different ways to achieve an end.
The other common thread in those comments is poor grammar and a lack of ability to spell. I feel that comments where the author can't clearly articulate their thoughts don't have much credence.
Heat is the biggest enemy of hydrostatic transmissions. Does company except the average person to have 2000 or 3000 hours on their tractor? Damage can occur internally and efficiency reduced but not noticeable to the average person. Transmission radiator needs to be kept clean.
I have found that opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and most of them stink. I would venture to guess that all these negative comments are coming from people who don't even own a hydro tractor and they don't understand how they work. But again that's my opinion and I refer you back to the beginning of my comment..lol..
Just another way to grab likes and hump the algorithms. All these youtubers have one common goal , to create revenue. When you learn to accept that, watching videos on RUclips aint no different than watch on regular networks. The youtuber is the 304 and the viewing audience are the johns😂😂😂
There is no point to argue on social media. Social media has corrupted America and it's being done free and willing participation 😂😂😂 TikTok is one big example 😂😂😂
Screw the haters! Think about this, they’re putting hydrostatic transmissions on bulldozers! Should operators baby their dozers too???