Thanks Robert for explaining the whole situation about crash videos. I just want to add that our goal is and has always been to provide the fans with the highest quality Nürburgring footage. Unfortunately it's true that we could not have made all these great videos without the crash videos. Back in 2014 we were the first to upload videos in full hd 50fps, and in 2018 we were again the first to produce 4K60p Nürburgring videos. That required some hefty investments in cameragear and we were only able to do so because of the crash videos. However we prefer to make entertaining videos without someone else's "loss" 👍
I've been a fan of Auto Addiction for some years and some of the crashes shown were actually quite interesting. I also some time ago had contact with some people in Germany that were attacking the Ring as an evil place and they were quite vocal and were using the crashes and crash videos as ammunition in their war on the track. Frankly they were scary in their passion and I did worry that they might succeed in their efforts, so when the Nurbergring put the ban on crash videos in place I felt we must support their decision. That being said, I've also felt that Auto Addiction could easily become the "1320video" of Europe.
yes, the same people who in Poland protest to ban all fireworks on New Year's Eve because dogs are scared and its dangerous. They bring up videos of people doing stupid ud stuff with fireworks as an argument all the time
I feel sorry for you guys. We are force ta act according to idiot’s fears. Yea, let’s allow to display big crashes only if they are fake and done in Hollywood studio.
Let's be honest, at the end of the day nurburgring is a freaking circuit and crashes will happen every single day. Thanks to your videos I learned the tricky bits of the circuit and others people mistakes are a lesson for the rest of us. If the owner agrees to show the footage I don't see why there should be a problem. Showing only the good things that happen it does not make the ring justice. Crashes are part of the track days.
Apart from crash videos you guys also now show drift (wet) videos, drifting now is forbidden at TF and most drivers know that but sometimes at really wet sections you do get into oversteer. So in theory with that footage the Nürburgring GMBH can now ban cars on base of their numberplates. If they see you doing it live (marshall) nowadays they report your numberplates and you are banned for the day. I don't think that is a good idea and I hope it doesn't come that far.
It’s ironic because the crashes highlighted mistakes made and actually educated people on what not to do. Auto Addiction love your Nurburgring videos please no more service station 😭
i dont agree with that 100%... brünnchen where AA filmed from is a very easy section to drive but aslo very easy area to try and show off for cameras and crowds... and then make a mistake while showing off. The same thing with the service station.. no camera, no crowds then no burnouts...
@@RobertMitchell And I have to disagree with YOU, as I've posted in my own comment today. Evorobin's summed up my comments exactly, but more concisely - the crashes are a learning experience for others, and bowdlerizing them is a mistake.
@@davidb6576 yes but Robert is talking about how things can get political from the crashes and jeopardize nurburgring and its activities. Pretty sure he knows that people will learn from its mistakes but the fact that it is public and people will continue to make the mistakes will put nurburgring at stake from even hosting track days.
I did like the Auto Addiction guys and their crash videos, but I understand why Nurburgring disapproved. Too bad but I'm glad that they have a license now!
Quite honestly one of the reasons for me taking out additional insurance and also instructed laps on the ring was those crash videos. The instructed laps by Misha were amazing and would recommend it to anyone.
A big personal shout-out to Auto Addiction! I had been a subscriber of AA and watched the crash videos. Because of these videos, I stumbled upon Misha's Media Licence video and subscribed. After I saw fellow American Robert in Misha's videos, I searched for his channel and subscribed. With the help of Auto Addiction, Misha, and Robert, I get to travel to Germany every day!
As much as I enjoy content from Auto Addiction guys I rather have the Ring stay open, than new crash video compilation! I wonder how many employees from insurance companies are subbed to them 🤣
crash videos in my opinion are important, the ring is dangeraus BUT this is part of the faszination. Crashes schould be analyzed and should edukate people about possible dangers, like liftoff oversteer after the foxhole for example or the ideal line at schwedenkreuz
That I was watching for every time. the reactions.. priceless. Not the racing sponsored cars but the tourists. Only when nobody is badly injured of course..
I think another angle to look at this is crash videos can sometimes help people who are not familiar with the circuit fully respect the ring and encourage them to drive within their ability
Man it's like every video I think, there is no way he can impress me further with his ability to display his opinion in a respectful and objective manner but man here you go again! Absolutely love the Auto Addiction crash videos I always thought of them as good tools to understand where and why mistakes happen but, I 100% agree with how it could portray the Nurburgring to be much more dangerous and maybe disorganized then say any lap video with Robert would suggest where everybody is allowing each other through the gate politely and orderly and everyone is so knowledgeable and cautious for the most part. Very very good points made here as always. Ps I love how I see you liking everybody's comments! Truly the most genuine and sensible auto content on RUclips
My thoughts are the same as the original to this re-upload, I did find the crash videos interesting but I completely understand why they had to stop and I support that decision.
Hi Robert I hope you read this: At the entrance there is a big LED screen showing some random information. I'm thinking for years that the most important TF rules should also be displayed there in large letters so that firsttimers can first read some important rules at TF: Keep right especially if you are slow, watch your mirrors after every corner(section), check your fluids and pressures before entering, buy lap tickets before lining up at the barriers, use your turn signals to say that you see the car behind and keep right, if it's your first time don't be to heroic and know that a lot faster cars will overtake you,... etc
Why would you want to stay on the right. That is not the best line to go fast. You cant just sacrifice your experience by staying right and indicating the entire time.
In a way, crash videos are educational material - for example, I learn a TON on yotube from other people's mistakes when I was new to motorcycles. Crash videos literally saved my bacon a couple times. Brushing Nürburgring accidents, the perils of this track under a nice lovey-dovey blanket might cause more accidents on the long run, as casual drivers tend to overestimate their skills by a wide margin... And when you drive on Nürburgring, it's a public road, when you make videos it's suddenly not? WTH?
The ring is never a public road. The rules of it follow that of a public road however it is 100% private road. Whatever the ring wants to do on their road is their call. They have plenty of outside influences however.
Is it just me but when you go to the official Ferrari website they’ve made the wheels on the Pista way larger and the car is slammed down to look more attractive than the actual customers car, looking at the pista in the background it had me wondering that.😅
If you take a closer look to exhibition cars on shows or on display ports in an airport, you can sometimes see the straps within the springs to let the car appear lower than they are actually on sale VW did this with the Mk 6 or 7 GTI on some exhibitions Audi tricked the electronics of the air suspension on the Q7 ,on display at some german airports some years ago, to lower it way beyond the point the customer would, so this is not uncommon for manufactures If a manufacture like Ferrari ( which sales only sportscars) needs to do such a show off is another thing ;)
Didier Peroni It’s pretty obvious when it’s pointed out, and it seems like Ferrari is doing the same for all of their models. Not gonna lie I am kinda disappointed it’s the equivalent of a girl face tuning her ig photos and in real life she goes from a 9 to a 7 real quick.😅
Been coming as a spectator for a while and have always thought that Save the Ring and crash videos don't mix together. Great to see you addressing this! It paints a picture of the Ring that's far away from what you experience being there.
I appreciate that you brought this issue to your RUclips channel, but I disagree, I think that the nurburgring guys exaggerate a lot, it is known that the number of accidents is very low, even for me who live 13000 kilometers away, I have gone 3 times and every time I go I spend a lot of money on car rental, tickets, hotels, restaurants, souvenirs, etc. I think that the accident videos serve enough to avoid falling into them and above all to learn to respect the track. in the case of auto addiction they treat accidents with great respect, I think, they also have very helpful videos indicating what not to do on the track, either for cars or for people, I think the people of the Nurburgring were very hard on them. I hope that this situation will be reversed in the future.
I think the part that you don’t see is that I probably have 400 messages of people who will not come to the ring because I think it’s only crashes. Furthermore you cannot argue with politicians thinking that they need to save their citizens from themselves. You and I both know that it’s a different scenario however maybe some lack that intelligence;-). Sadly most things in this world are dictated by the least intelligent or least willing to comply with society amongst us
Totally totally agree with you Robert. I do however think they are good for one thing and thats education. Many years ago when coming to germany on my first trip i watched alot of crash videos as well as loads of lap guides. The thing it did for me was humble me and my driving, realising I was at a serious place. If the stars didnt align i wouldnt go for a lap and i never did “one last lap” 😉
You changed the way I thought about those videos actually. I can completely understand that the promotion of dangerous or incompetent driving could lead to the end of TF.
Now that i have seen the comments below this video, i think you should make a video that explains the status of the Nürburgring. It is always said that the Nürburgring is a public road. It is not entirely wrong, but neither is it true. The Nürburgring was built in 1927 as a race track and development track for the automotive industry. It is accessible to the public during tourist rides and the same rules apply as on a public road, but this still doesn't make it a public road. Especially because the track is privately owned these days.
The crash videos were the sobering pictures that I needed before heading to TF; it did not change my mindset toward going to the 'ring, but it certainly influenced my driving style when I arrived (and the reasonably large number of times that I have been since my first time). I certainly appreciate the perspective of the Nürburgring operators, but crash videos (in a public setting) influenced me more positively than hearsay or anecdotal warnings ever could..
Hadn't considered that there may be a strong Anti Nurburgring movement in Germany. I don't understand people who enjoy train spotting so that should definitely be banned.
@@behindthen0thing Must be a headache for the authorities that the deristricted autobahn is a efficient way to travel from city to city but some people actually have fun driving it! Perhaps only people who are made sad by driving quickly should be able to use the unrestricted sections!
@@_56mphlet's see for how long that is going to last Traction on a general speed limit has slowed a little/it's not major news right now but who knows what will happen after the next election
Well, the Nürburgring is right next to a nature reserve and has quite an impact on the environment around it and there's no deny of that... obviously there are many people who are very critical of the ring
Ok watched this time with a calm and cool mind. I think last time i said that i wouldn't want my car and my face on the internet after crashing. So i understand why these steps were taken. However i also said that if only the positive side is shown to the people they might assume it's a pretty easy feat to drive the ring and might bring a sea of reckless and unsafe drivers. That being said there are plenty of horrible crash videos still online and i for one have learned alot from them on what can and will happen. You guys have promoted safe and fun driving throughout the years and newcomers should really consult those videos by Misha and you. I am sure they will have a safe and fun time.
Tend to agree there. Although i understand why the Ring would only want to show "Rainbows and Unicorns", the reality remains that it IS a track and there are crashes. Now, i'm not a fan of shaming and blaming and those kinds of crash videos, more along the lines of what Robert and Misha have don previously, show people that it does happen, how to prepare for it and how to handle it when/if it does happen. Showcase tricky zones and spots to watch out for, sometimes showcasing them unintentionally with a crash or near crash, such as Robert getting run off the road in the E92. I do feel that is important to see, i do also see how the Ring is in that very strange spot, moreso than most tracks, that one false move could bring down the government on your butt. The political climate in Germany over the past few months when it comes to Automobiles has been extremely strange, so definitely see the worries there.
The middle ground would appear to be to allow close calls to be shown. You don't need to see an impact to 'learn' or understand the care needed when driving there. The compilations should also have a disclaimer. Something like "these incidents were filmed over x days and represent a tiny fraction of the safe laps that were enjoyed during this period".
I totally agree with your point, however I do find crash videos useful to see where the track can be tricky and mistakes are easily made. How about a video on that topic..? 😉😅
if someone doesnt know the ring enough to know where the dangerous areas are they probably will not piece them together from videos to actual driving.. furthermore, many people crash showing off for the crowds so some of these incidents are a function of the cameras being there in the first place. ''lets give them a fast pass for the camera''
Robert Mitchell True, but it does apply to me. I visit the ring once a year and was glad to know beforehand not to brake in the foxhole or hit the bump on the inside of Schwedenkreuz. Thanks to Misha I didn’t find out the hard way.
Literally any race track in the world you can find crash compilation videos on, but nurburgring does have far more crashes, but its due to length, different weather on one side of track than the other, but its also one of the most famous, therefore you get a lot of tourists from all over the world that think because they can make a good fast lap on a video game, they can in real life. Anytime you push a car to its limits, there will be a crash. Its not a matter of if, but when
I have actually looked crash videos to learn from them, not only the ring accidents but also rally and other track accidents. If you consider places like Schwedencreutz or the immediate uphill of Fuchsröhre these are place where you not only need to know how to drive them but also how not to drive them. These are the two places where you can have a major, life and wallet threatning accident at the Ring. Also when I bought a 911 I wanted to see what kinda accidents people have in them - because of the reputation of being a car that has to be thrown like a spanner handle ahead. And I learned a lot from those. Most often they involve too high entrance speed and as a consequence coming off from throttle white already well rotating. So that emphasized what most 911 people know and say - slow in, fast out. To me the most dangerous car is a small FWD when you have to come off from the throttle in a fast corner. Those snap so quickly and the corrections are already too late for nothing. In a way it is similar problem with the 911 albeit totally different weight bias. Another thing that crosses my mind with the Ring accident videos is that maybe people are going too fast too SOON. 30 Eur is nothing to someone who owns a McLaren or GT2 or GT3 or a Pista etc. However, there maybe a young guy for whose wallet even three laps is bit too much and he gets triggered to go too fast too soon. I think it might be an idea to sell 1-3 cheap laps with somehow subjectively restricted speed limit so that people get an idea. A good 6DOF simulator might be an idea (for Apex, yes) to sell for introductory work. Stationary simulators give an impression of the geography of the track but not really about altitude changes nor cambers. Ive only ever done three laps at the Ring, maybe 300 on the simlators. All and all I am for accident videos because they can improve safety - admittedly with the expense of giving a populistic wrong impression.
Good points. Issue in my mind is when the opinions are formed based on videos where people are earning money from them. The drama sells so they’ll be tempted to place as much of it as they can in one vid and paint it as risky as possible
I've always thought that it's obvious that this doesn't happen all the time, but now that you say that people actually think that nürburgring is just a massive demolition derby circuit then i can understand why the ring wouldn't want those videos...
I fully understand, but I always thought that at Apex, you were not filming crashes, but more explaining what went wrong and giving lot's of context, whenever one of you cars crashed. Witch did not seem to be very often. It might be stupid, but when I first found Apex, it was through Micha. I was watching a lot of laps of the Ring then, so inevitably one of them had to be with Micha. And he was talking about "now we call this Micha corner". It was not for sure only that that spiked my interest but more so his natural voice and way of talking on camera, but still. So I fully understand that all those crash videos are not OK, but miss the more educational videos of small crashes explained without showing the crash itself.
I think the only crashes he showed the actual crash of was him in the m4 and then him in the rcn race correct? We had shared 2 rental crashes where we discussed the situation and that’s not something I’m 100% against doing again
Really good point, I've never been to the ring and loads of people ask me if I'm going to go and for years my answers been "I've got no interest in smashing my car up". I knew at the time it was probably unfounded, but my RUclips suggestions was a wall of crashes. However i really enjoyed the lap you put in with your daughter. Maybe it's time to do a lap in your UP!
Hello Robert, I was hoping to go around the Nurburgring on my way to Bavaria in September so looked at a couple of crash ones on purpose, not because of schadenfreude but to see if I could learn anything - which I did in that it can be easy to have an accident (esp BMW in the wet) so decided I would go around for fun and enjoyment rather than a time. For that the videos were invaluable but can wholly see your points why they would not want them due to attracting the wrong attention from people who could campaign to stop it. Cheers.
Crash videos made me realise that you cant fuck with the ring and made me a safer driver on it. Thats my view. I think its actually good for the ring because it makes people aware and also gets alot of media succes and more visitors
I understand the motivation for taking control over the crash Videos, but now an equally biaised view of the Ring is painted...just come and drive the hell out of your car and even with no experience or skills you are safe..their is never anything happening..fully safe and fools proove
I think that awareness to the risks needs to be presented but maybe not in a method that is profitable for those presenting it:-). If there wasn’t money Involved then maybe it would look more realistic
@@RobertMitchell They could do something like Nordschleifen TV with HD live video streaming from the most interesting places around the ring, on subscription basis. This would for sure be subscribed by lots of people being able to follow the activities around the Nordschleife. Then you also would get a feeling for the amount of incidents of all kinds throughout the day.
I agree, I think NOT showing any crash footage at all, paints an unrealistic picture that could cause even more crashes. Clearly there could be a balance, but Nurburgring aren't interested (at this point) in striking that balance unlike with the Photographers. They could very easily give out media licenses that limit crash footage to 1/10th of the video content or the title must not contain "CRASH" "BEST CRASH VIDEO" etc etc. However that doesn't stop other people making compilation videos from the content! I must admit I'm a fan of Compilation videos - Ironically one of the most important things that I've found out about (but not experienced thank god) is the danger of OIL on the track. AutoAddiction I believe had a video containing a compilation of why you need to be ever so careful if there is any hint of oil. Do I have the answers? Nope, but I hope that one is found!
The mystique about the Nurburgring was built on the idea that it was the most dangerous race track in the world. The Green Hell. If all the crash footage is censored and people don’t talk about them, it takes away from that image somewhat. Whilst I understand they want to promote a brand in a good way, the whole brand has come about because it IS a dangerous place and crashes DO happen.
Robert Mitchell 100% agree that it shouldn’t be closed. That surely comes down to people not being such wet lettuces and letting us live our lives. Health and safety going mad is the issue I would say
When i tell people that i drive on the ring there reaction is always the same: it's dangerous, everybody crashes there It's what people think thanks to the crash video's🤷🏻♂️
As a viewer I, myself, have seen the compilations for what they were and understood how far and few between incidents actually can be. But I do realize that is a very subjective thing and people will all percieve a video differently.
Oh...is the nürburing in china now? Sorry guys, but I disagree for a lots of reasons - knowing that most viewers just want to see crash action to let them feel better or whatever and public attention of non-ringlovers could grow against the ring. But we as ring community have to withstand that and the nbr gmbh has to do it as well. We live in a free society and media has become a big part of it. So be honest and show all parts of nbr live. Yes, it's their property and they can do what they want, but it's also a public road and nbr gmbh does profit a lot of that. Most of the (german) vehicles are insured via the nationwide system. So everybody who's paying in germany should be able to see whats happening on that small part of public road. Like we're getting media on any other crash on the autobahn or elsewhere in the evening news on tv. Besides, I fully agree on the educational part of it like some other comments did already. Schwedenkreuz for example is simply dangerous if you're not experienced. You may follow a faster car and realize to slow down when it's already to late. The videos might help to avoid that. And yes @robert. It is simply crazy to have a real race track open up for anybody without a briefing. So please do not let a non realistic imagine be created. Even if the successful laps are the majority, but the non successful laps can have a much higher influence on the drivers life or, even more, the lives of others, who might do a real tourist lap and not a race lap, like (lets be honest on that) most of the people do. So in the end...allow crash videos (hopefully without glorification) to keep active or new ring lovers educated and please let's not have a censored press on a topic of public interest. Thanks for the video! Love your and Mishas content. (32, ring enthusiast, active driving since 2008)
I’m with you on many points. The issue is when the crash videos are for profit and they glorify it. This is where the crash vid media makes things look as if everyone goes and crashes... Look what media has done w the whole covid 19 situation for example.
Yes, agree on your point as well. I would love to see a solution somewhere in the middle. It's definitely up to the media/press as well to follow some kind of codex not only foccusing on clicks or profit. But I guess this will be a tough one...
I agree to some extent, the only thing is that also not posting crashes it’s also not being transparent of what actually happens on the tarmac. Also painting a picture that crashes do not happen it’s also the wrong one. This is also slowing technological advances for safety to the drivers as any technology that could help identify and notify about hazards on the tarmac are denied because someone could look at how many incidents happen. You mentioned the administration got behind the pictures and videos and they should also consider to get in front of the challenge of a transparent image balanced with safety.
I don’t think there is any technology advancement you could achieve based on ring crash videos. The ring is very aware of the number of accidents and they are actually working on some cool safety and warning updates. When politicians push for safety it’s often via closure, not via improved equipment. Very much hindered by tunnel vision sadly.
Robert Mitchell of course not with the crash videos by them selves :) I also know what they are working on as I developed an app and had conversations with them and this knowledge of how many incidents in a topic and concern on bringing technology.
Ooof, not sure how I'm going to explain this one to my 4 year old... he loves sitting on Daddy's lap watching crashes from the track. We even talk about what the drivers did wrong in some cases... I hate to hear/see this for his/our sake. I understand from the track point of view and what it is causing, but personally... kiddo is going to REALLY miss the videos. At least, for now, there are old videos I can hopefully keep him occupied with for some father/son computer time together. He catches on pretty quick when he sees repeats though at his age already.
I'll find some car related goodness he'll enjoy with me I'm sure... just will have to do a little more digging around! :) Thanks for explaining the situation Robert! I can understand the why behind it for sure!
I want to hear you talk about wheels alignment, cars like amg and other expensive cars, aftermarket doesn't provide camber kit. how can we make sure we will have even tire wear without 2 negative degree camber? factory set up is totally okay?
Can you make a video about your background, like what did you do before, how did you get interested in the whole Nurburgring thing, when did you move to DE, etc,... I'm really interested to get the whole picture if it's too personal, no problem I get it :)
AutoAddiction and other similar youtubers have gone too far regarding crash content. They are filming a whole day of Touristenfahrten, make a 10 min video out of it and if an accident happens the title of the video is CRASH in capital letters and the thumbnail shows the crashed car. Otherwise they use titles such as almost crash or close call. Accidents happen, but this has nothing to do anymore with showing "the reality". Often individual crashes get used several times in multiple compilations. Crash compilation 2019, Top 10 crashes, BMW crash compilation, ... VLN crashes mixed with tf crashes. You just have to read some of the comments below the compilations. The amount of people with wrong assumptions about tf and the Nürburgring in general is enormous. The Nürburgring management has had a problem with this for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they resorted to harder methods.
Maybe if auto addiction (and other channels) filmed some actual tourists on touristenfahrten and not the same GT3RS/ E92 over and over again people would actually watch the normal video’s because they’re in it.
Robert I would love to get your opinion on the GT3RS , the Mclarens , and the pista I know all of them have their own individual traits but I would love to get your opinion since you drove them from a “track” perspective and I am a track type of person so I would love your opinion and maybe your top 3 out of those ? And why
@@RobertMitchell Yes! Funny enough, right when I clicked on this video, I've seen it in the related list. Thank you for the insights you provide beyond the looks or status of these cars. It means a lot for not just myself, but I would assume a lot of people who truly love the capabilities of these cars and for the people who truly admire the track side of things. It's a lot cooler to me than a RUclipsr who just goes to busy streets and shows off a Lamborghini, but that's my opinion I guess! Great work on the videos, keep em coming!
@robert mitchell @auto addiction When I did a small private track day before the 24hrs a few years ago with a popular company on the Ring, a part of the briefing were Auto Addiction videos, mostly on what “not to do”, or how not to react. It made me understand the track and actually less nervous about driving correctly. Some sort of crash videos should still be available for educational purposes! (And for fun too, but I understand the political situation)
Your points are raising contrary question - if there were a lot of videos of crashes, well in that case there are a lot of crashes happening. It would be much more productive if Nurburgring saw those crash videos as alert sign. That sign could lead to mandatory "Nurburgring amateur permit" that would cost for example 100 Euros. For example, if you are coming for first time, you must apply to Ring permit course that consists of: - 1. Obligatory theory class and training circle with Nurburgring official training car along with qualified person to let you know how to implement all rules from theory class. After you accomplish those two obligations you are getting written permit with serial code that is attached to your name. Next time when you are buying ticked for Ring, you cant buy ticked without permit. That would be REAL solution. Prohibiting crash videos is simple solution where Nurburgring managament is hiding their curcial problem.
I don't understand the problem. The crashes weren't made up, they happened, so it's only a documentation. Crashes and racing/ driving too fast goes hand in hand, but of course they don't happen all the time. There is absolutely no need to protect something that hasn't to be protected. The unbroken popularity and success of the Nurburgring shows that in my opinion. I go further and say it is important for Nurburgringfans in particular to be reminded that it is dangerous to drive there fast if you don't have experience and respect for the track. Removing all the crashvideos only creates a false impression of safety, what could backfire and probably will.
Did you kiss the part about politics and the need to keep it from being shut down by shining a light on just the crashes? It is A public road where families can drive on it is not “racing” therefore this should not be compared to Racing! Crash videos from Races are not censored or limited. Just from public driving
@@RobertMitchell You mean a family father who always wanted to drive on the famous track doesn't have to be reminded of the danger? Ok, then. Maybe you are right. Sure, why should the Ring company care if he dies or destroys his car AFTER he has paid for the ticket?!? The company has its money and he probably wouldn't have come back anyways. Business always comes first, i forgot.
@@skynetsworld Why should they care? From a fiancial standpoint: A crash often leads to a closure of the whole track for hours. Imagine how many laps of ~30€ per car are not being driven in this period.
As much as I like freedom around the Ring, I always hated the crash videos making money (ads) off other people's misery... Also the gas station departure videos should be stopped as well for different reasons. VLN and other racing series should be totally fine showing everything, like all other racing series.
Agreed. Also this whole thing "laughing at someone else's misery / pain / accident". Damaged cars are one thing but what about the people inside? They might be injured for life because they couldn't see an oil spill or a deer jumping out in front of the car. So I'm glad to hear that those videos are gone and I can start to enjoy more good videos from this epic track!
yes, for many it is! for me its not. ... I really only like them on track. I am going to do something crazy this year though (for me) I am going to take my LT spider to Italy and leave it there for several months to try and enjoy...
What I dont like in crash video is that people in comments acts like they have neverade a mistake, like they run 7:20 in their e39 or Civic 5 and are Just Gods on the Road. I would like to See them to know what was done wrong, what kind of behaviour people should avoid. But I dont think Thats possible in a Way those videos were posted - some emoji, HUGE CRASH COMPILATION title etc. So in the end, I think Thats a loss for people who want to learn but its Just the way it had to be because most people dont want to learn, they want to feel better than others (look, I didnt crash in 20 years of driving to work, i am good right? ) Could you made a video Talking about mistakes in driving, but not the common one you See in others but the ones you did and saw later when you had more experienced? Just an idea, I can understand why you might not want to do that
I actually think crash videos can be a positive thing, you can learn from the mistakes made and exercise extra caution at the hot spots where people come off.
Interesting thing is that some of the hotspots are due to showing off for the camera. W / O cams there Brunnchen has less crashes for example. There was on in the last couple days but it’s not too often anymore strangely
"Painting a picture" of the Nordschleife without crashes is like saying the Bundeswehr is only going to Afghanistan to build Schools. It's wishfull thinking. Just be honest, crashes are good for everyone. The Viewers have fun and get respect, the crashkid learns something, Bongart makes money, NR makes money, repair shops make money and those guys who come to Apex and say things like "oh im so afraid to drive there, all i see is crashes", those are the same ppl who sit at home with a facemask and rubber gloves.
ah but there aren't videos of the Bundeswehr out shooting and blowing people up on the daily from War Addiction RUclips channel either :) We know what they are doing, we know what happens but they aren't live streaming every sniper shot. Occasionally a bit explosion video leaks to RUclips but not daily hits. Some people can't afford to crash on the ring and if they think that 1 in 10 do then they'll stay off being with gloves and mask on or not:)
To me all these Crash Videos come down to a kinda sad thing in our society called "Sensationalism" or in german "Sensationslust". When you post crashes, you get more views, cause many people seem to be bored when they see normal driving videos in which nothing serious happens. There is something involved we Germans call "Schadenfreude". Having fun, laughing when other people destroy their vehicles. Very sad in my eyes. Same happens in the Rally Scene. I am a big fan of the Rally Sport, i think they are the best, most skilled drivers in all Motorsports. And as you would expect, the Videos with the most Crashes and Fails get the most views and likes.
Is every acre around the Nordschleife property of the Nürbugring itself?, i thaught most land, forests or "naturschutzgebiete" are property of the bundesland ,gemeinde or (here in the southern parts) the church
How can they prohibit anyone standing behind the fence filming the track, isn't that just public road (or at least many parts of it) where filming is allowed ?
Has the pendulum, like in many cases, swung too far? A complete ban with the penalties that can incur seems like swinging too far in the other direction. Granted I don't live, work or play anywhere near the Nürburgring so I am not really familiar with it in the same way. Someday I hope to come from Canada to not crash with Apex Taxi :)
I can see them not wanting crash videos for political reasons. But I wonder how much people have learned from those videos and how much they have brought the heros down from driving 10/10ths to a more reasonable pace? Anyway, as always I enjoyed your common sense approach to the issue. Thanks for sharing. 👍
keep in mind videographers aren't really allowed anyhow as its private property. so come on my private property and only post up about the bad things that happen and you'll probably get issues w me too
There's proof enough already to know what to do and what NOT to do. If crashing videos keep getting posted you are giving another reason to close it from the eyes of the public administration. if this censorship was made from the track management people is because they want to preserve the nürburgring . dont you want that?
I am so annoyed that there is no Video of my crash on the Nordschleife, would have loved to see how it looked from the outside. Of course I understand why the Nürburgring is banning it, but it's a shame, because I love clips from me driving. I even pay for it, but it has become so hard to find footage of yourself.
@@RobertMitchell After the compression in Fuchsröhre I braked and wanted to switch down into 4th gear. Car (MX-5) has done more than 200.000km, shifter is not the most accurate anymore, so I accidently went into 2nd at aprox 150kph. Rear spins round, I try to catch it, drift angle of more than 90°, front wheels on grass (inside), front swings back into the right direction but with a lot of momentum, so I try to stop it, but a little bit too early. Front has grip again and i slightly touched the barrier on the left side. I was pretty lucky there, not much damage on the car, and only costs for one barrier. The onboard video is pretty good (guess I'm not allowed to upload (or am I?)), but the external view must be spectacular. Tried to repeat it in Assetto Corsa and succeeded, but it's not the same as in real life.
Bluebird209 well if it’s your video and your car no one can say too much. I think you should treat it as an analysis of what happened vs a look her get clicks type of thing. Maybe I can help you w that and talk about what was happening at each point of the video. Could be a good way to start sharing some of these things in a positive way
Hehe not really tbh. You’d have to be at TF every day. All VLN races, RCN, track days, get companies and teams paying you for shots etc. I’d say it would be a tough nut to crack tbh
Thanks Robert for explaining the whole situation about crash videos. I just want to add that our goal is and has always been to provide the fans with the highest quality Nürburgring footage. Unfortunately it's true that we could not have made all these great videos without the crash videos. Back in 2014 we were the first to upload videos in full hd 50fps, and in 2018 we were again the first to produce 4K60p Nürburgring videos. That required some hefty investments in cameragear and we were only able to do so because of the crash videos.
However we prefer to make entertaining videos without someone else's "loss" 👍
I've been a fan of Auto Addiction for some years and some of the crashes shown were actually quite interesting. I also some time ago had contact with some people in Germany that were attacking the Ring as an evil place and they were quite vocal and were using the crashes and crash videos as ammunition in their war on the track. Frankly they were scary in their passion and I did worry that they might succeed in their efforts, so when the Nurbergring put the ban on crash videos in place I felt we must support their decision. That being said, I've also felt that Auto Addiction could easily become the "1320video" of Europe.
yes, the same people who in Poland protest to ban all fireworks on New Year's Eve because dogs are scared and its dangerous. They bring up videos of people doing stupid ud stuff with fireworks as an argument all the time
I feel sorry for you guys. We are force ta act according to idiot’s fears. Yea, let’s allow to display big crashes only if they are fake and done in Hollywood studio.
Let's be honest, at the end of the day nurburgring is a freaking circuit and crashes will happen every single day. Thanks to your videos I learned the tricky bits of the circuit and others people mistakes are a lesson for the rest of us. If the owner agrees to show the footage I don't see why there should be a problem. Showing only the good things that happen it does not make the ring justice. Crashes are part of the track days.
Apart from crash videos you guys also now show drift (wet) videos, drifting now is forbidden at TF and most drivers know that but sometimes at really wet sections you do get into oversteer. So in theory with that footage the Nürburgring GMBH can now ban cars on base of their numberplates. If they see you doing it live (marshall) nowadays they report your numberplates and you are banned for the day. I don't think that is a good idea and I hope it doesn't come that far.
It’s ironic because the crashes highlighted mistakes made and actually educated people on what not to do.
Auto Addiction love your Nurburgring videos please no more service station 😭
i dont agree with that 100%... brünnchen where AA filmed from is a very easy section to drive but aslo very easy area to try and show off for cameras and crowds... and then make a mistake while showing off.
The same thing with the service station.. no camera, no crowds then no burnouts...
@@RobertMitchell Kind of a paradox, what was first, egg or a chicken? (Burnouts or crowd/Cameras) :D
@@RobertMitchell And I have to disagree with YOU, as I've posted in my own comment today. Evorobin's summed up my comments exactly, but more concisely - the crashes are a learning experience for others, and bowdlerizing them is a mistake.
@@davidb6576 yes but Robert is talking about how things can get political from the crashes and jeopardize nurburgring and its activities. Pretty sure he knows that people will learn from its mistakes but the fact that it is public and people will continue to make the mistakes will put nurburgring at stake from even hosting track days.
The positive effect of Crash Videos is (it was for me)
the respect you have when you do ur own first Rounds
++++
I did like the Auto Addiction guys and their crash videos, but I understand why Nurburgring disapproved. Too bad but I'm glad that they have a license now!
Quite honestly one of the reasons for me taking out additional insurance and also instructed laps on the ring was those crash videos. The instructed laps by Misha were amazing and would recommend it to anyone.
A big personal shout-out to Auto Addiction! I had been a subscriber of AA and watched the crash videos. Because of these videos, I stumbled upon Misha's Media Licence video and subscribed. After I saw fellow American Robert in Misha's videos, I searched for his channel and subscribed. With the help of Auto Addiction, Misha, and Robert, I get to travel to Germany every day!
As much as I enjoy content from Auto Addiction guys I rather have the Ring stay open, than new crash video compilation! I wonder how many employees from insurance companies are subbed to them 🤣
crash videos in my opinion are important, the ring is dangeraus BUT this is part of the faszination. Crashes schould be analyzed and should edukate people about possible dangers, like liftoff oversteer after the foxhole for example or the ideal line at schwedenkreuz
Crashes are the best videos, especially the owners faces when getting out of their carshed car.
I hate seeing them lol
That I was watching for every time. the reactions.. priceless. Not the racing sponsored cars but the tourists. Only when nobody is badly injured of course..
I think another angle to look at this is crash videos can sometimes help people who are not familiar with the circuit fully respect the ring and encourage them to drive within their ability
Man it's like every video I think, there is no way he can impress me further with his ability to display his opinion in a respectful and objective manner but man here you go again! Absolutely love the Auto Addiction crash videos I always thought of them as good tools to understand where and why mistakes happen but, I 100% agree with how it could portray the Nurburgring to be much more dangerous and maybe disorganized then say any lap video with Robert would suggest where everybody is allowing each other through the gate politely and orderly and everyone is so knowledgeable and cautious for the most part. Very very good points made here as always. Ps I love how I see you liking everybody's comments! Truly the most genuine and sensible auto content on RUclips
My thoughts are the same as the original to this re-upload, I did find the crash videos interesting but I completely understand why they had to stop and I support that decision.
I really love these video's because they paint the correct picture of the situation. Thanks Robert for explaining what is going on.
Hi Robert I hope you read this: At the entrance there is a big LED screen showing some random information. I'm thinking for years that the most important TF rules should also be displayed there in large letters so that firsttimers can first read some important rules at TF: Keep right especially if you are slow, watch your mirrors after every corner(section), check your fluids and pressures before entering, buy lap tickets before lining up at the barriers, use your turn signals to say that you see the car behind and keep right, if it's your first time don't be to heroic and know that a lot faster cars will overtake you,... etc
I agree. I’m really feeling an easier more fluid way to ensure those on track have this info is needed
Why would you want to stay on the right. That is not the best line to go fast. You cant just sacrifice your experience by staying right and indicating the entire time.
@@del7723 Go back to your playstation, you have no clue what the ring is IRL :D
I miss the crash vids i think they are good, they show you what not to do . Next week they will be banning people from calling it the 'Green Hell'
In a way, crash videos are educational material - for example, I learn a TON on yotube from other people's mistakes when I was new to motorcycles. Crash videos literally saved my bacon a couple times. Brushing Nürburgring accidents, the perils of this track under a nice lovey-dovey blanket might cause more accidents on the long run, as casual drivers tend to overestimate their skills by a wide margin... And when you drive on Nürburgring, it's a public road, when you make videos it's suddenly not? WTH?
The ring is never a public road. The rules of it follow that of a public road however it is 100% private road. Whatever the ring wants to do on their road is their call. They have plenty of outside influences however.
Is it just me but when you go to the official Ferrari website they’ve made the wheels on the Pista way larger and the car is slammed down to look more attractive than the actual customers car, looking at the pista in the background it had me wondering that.😅
If you take a closer look to exhibition cars on shows or on display ports in an airport, you can sometimes see the straps within the springs to let the car appear lower than they are actually on sale VW did this with the Mk 6 or 7 GTI on some exhibitions
Audi tricked the electronics of the air suspension on the Q7 ,on display at some german airports some years ago, to lower it way beyond the point the customer would, so this is not uncommon for manufactures
If a manufacture like Ferrari ( which sales only sportscars) needs to do such a show off is another thing ;)
You have an admirable eye for detail.
Cheers
That pista was lowered at manthey wasn't it?
Jay Dobson yep and still ready for off-road 🤣
Didier Peroni It’s pretty obvious when it’s pointed out, and it seems like Ferrari is doing the same for all of their models. Not gonna lie I am kinda disappointed it’s the equivalent of a girl face tuning her ig photos and in real life she goes from a 9 to a 7 real quick.😅
Been coming as a spectator for a while and have always thought that Save the Ring and crash videos don't mix together. Great to see you addressing this! It paints a picture of the Ring that's far away from what you experience being there.
Need to keep the ring open. I may never get there myself but it's nice to know it exists and i can have some fun vicariously through you guys.
One of the few channels I can click the like button BEFORE I watch the video............
I appreciate that you brought this issue to your RUclips channel, but I disagree, I think that the nurburgring guys exaggerate a lot, it is known that the number of accidents is very low, even for me who live 13000 kilometers away, I have gone 3 times and every time I go I spend a lot of money on car rental, tickets, hotels, restaurants, souvenirs, etc. I think that the accident videos serve enough to avoid falling into them and above all to learn to respect the track. in the case of auto addiction they treat accidents with great respect, I think, they also have very helpful videos indicating what not to do on the track, either for cars or for people, I think the people of the Nurburgring were very hard on them. I hope that this situation will be reversed in the future.
I think the part that you don’t see is that I probably have 400 messages of people who will not come to the ring because I think it’s only crashes. Furthermore you cannot argue with politicians thinking that they need to save their citizens from themselves.
You and I both know that it’s a different scenario however maybe some lack that intelligence;-). Sadly most things in this world are dictated by the least intelligent or least willing to comply with society amongst us
Totally totally agree with you Robert. I do however think they are good for one thing and thats education. Many years ago when coming to germany on my first trip i watched alot of crash videos as well as loads of lap guides. The thing it did for me was humble me and my driving, realising I was at a serious place. If the stars didnt align i wouldnt go for a lap and i never did “one last lap” 😉
but those crahsvideos had a very good side too... show the people how dangerous it can be, and thats not a bad thing.
You changed the way I thought about those videos actually. I can completely understand that the promotion of dangerous or incompetent driving could lead to the end of TF.
Now that i have seen the comments below this video, i think you should make a video that explains the status of the Nürburgring. It is always said that the Nürburgring is a public road. It is not entirely wrong, but neither is it true. The Nürburgring was built in 1927 as a race track and development track for the automotive industry. It is accessible to the public during tourist rides and the same rules apply as on a public road, but this still doesn't make it a public road. Especially because the track is privately owned these days.
Yes this is clear that we will need to do this:-)
Always good, informative content mate. It’s great reading the comments, how many people are also against the crash videos
My new favourite RUclipsr. Great content Robert. Keep it coming
Thank you so much for the kind words
The crash videos were the sobering pictures that I needed before heading to TF; it did not change my mindset toward going to the 'ring, but it certainly influenced my driving style when I arrived (and the reasonably large number of times that I have been since my first time).
I certainly appreciate the perspective of the Nürburgring operators, but crash videos (in a public setting) influenced me more positively than hearsay or anecdotal warnings ever could..
that is great to hear, there are certainly people on both sides of that equation. Some more responsible than others ;)
Crash videos always put me off returning to the 'ring until recently when the majority where courteous and sensible.
100% get your point and the last thing I’d want to see is the track’s closure, but boy I loved those videos!!
Hadn't considered that there may be a strong Anti Nurburgring movement in Germany. I don't understand people who enjoy train spotting so that should definitely be banned.
If you lived in Germany you'd understand that culturally, fun, is frowned upon. And Germans are obsessed with rules.
@@behindthen0thing Must be a headache for the authorities that the deristricted autobahn is a efficient way to travel from city to city but some people actually have fun driving it!
Perhaps only people who are made sad by driving quickly should be able to use the unrestricted sections!
@@_56mphlet's see for how long that is going to last
Traction on a general speed limit has slowed a little/it's not major news right now but who knows what will happen after the next election
Well, the Nürburgring is right next to a nature reserve and has quite an impact on the environment around it and there's no deny of that... obviously there are many people who are very critical of the ring
Ok watched this time with a calm and cool mind. I think last time i said that i wouldn't want my car and my face on the internet after crashing. So i understand why these steps were taken. However i also said that if only the positive side is shown to the people they might assume it's a pretty easy feat to drive the ring and might bring a sea of reckless and unsafe drivers. That being said there are plenty of horrible crash videos still online and i for one have learned alot from them on what can and will happen. You guys have promoted safe and fun driving throughout the years and newcomers should really consult those videos by Misha and you. I am sure they will have a safe and fun time.
Tend to agree there. Although i understand why the Ring would only want to show "Rainbows and Unicorns", the reality remains that it IS a track and there are crashes. Now, i'm not a fan of shaming and blaming and those kinds of crash videos, more along the lines of what Robert and Misha have don previously, show people that it does happen, how to prepare for it and how to handle it when/if it does happen. Showcase tricky zones and spots to watch out for, sometimes showcasing them unintentionally with a crash or near crash, such as Robert getting run off the road in the E92. I do feel that is important to see, i do also see how the Ring is in that very strange spot, moreso than most tracks, that one false move could bring down the government on your butt. The political climate in Germany over the past few months when it comes to Automobiles has been extremely strange, so definitely see the worries there.
I dont think all crash videos should be forbidden but i respect your take
The middle ground would appear to be to allow close calls to be shown. You don't need to see an impact to 'learn' or understand the care needed when driving there. The compilations should also have a disclaimer. Something like "these incidents were filmed over x days and represent a tiny fraction of the safe laps that were enjoyed during this period".
thank you Robert. thank you fro the nurburgring comunity. you're doing great.
Good informative video robert. Your putting out good stuff lately keep it up 😊
I totally agree with your point, however I do find crash videos useful to see where the track can be tricky and mistakes are easily made. How about a video on that topic..? 😉😅
if someone doesnt know the ring enough to know where the dangerous areas are they probably will not piece them together from videos to actual driving.. furthermore, many people crash showing off for the crowds so some of these incidents are a function of the cameras being there in the first place. ''lets give them a fast pass for the camera''
Robert Mitchell True, but it does apply to me. I visit the ring once a year and was glad to know beforehand not to brake in the foxhole or hit the bump on the inside of Schwedenkreuz. Thanks to Misha I didn’t find out the hard way.
Literally any race track in the world you can find crash compilation videos on, but nurburgring does have far more crashes, but its due to length, different weather on one side of track than the other, but its also one of the most famous, therefore you get a lot of tourists from all over the world that think because they can make a good fast lap on a video game, they can in real life. Anytime you push a car to its limits, there will be a crash. Its not a matter of if, but when
I have actually looked crash videos to learn from them, not only the ring accidents but also rally and other track accidents. If you consider places like Schwedencreutz or the immediate uphill of Fuchsröhre these are place where you not only need to know how to drive them but also how not to drive them. These are the two places where you can have a major, life and wallet threatning accident at the Ring.
Also when I bought a 911 I wanted to see what kinda accidents people have in them - because of the reputation of being a car that has to be thrown like a spanner handle ahead. And I learned a lot from those. Most often they involve too high entrance speed and as a consequence coming off from throttle white already well rotating. So that emphasized what most 911 people know and say - slow in, fast out.
To me the most dangerous car is a small FWD when you have to come off from the throttle in a fast corner. Those snap so quickly and the corrections are already too late for nothing. In a way it is similar problem with the 911 albeit totally different weight bias.
Another thing that crosses my mind with the Ring accident videos is that maybe people are going too fast too SOON. 30 Eur is nothing to someone who owns a McLaren or GT2 or GT3 or a Pista etc. However, there maybe a young guy for whose wallet even three laps is bit too much and he gets triggered to go too fast too soon. I think it might be an idea to sell 1-3 cheap laps with somehow subjectively restricted speed limit so that people get an idea. A good 6DOF simulator might be an idea (for Apex, yes) to sell for introductory work. Stationary simulators give an impression of the geography of the track but not really about altitude changes nor cambers.
Ive only ever done three laps at the Ring, maybe 300 on the simlators.
All and all I am for accident videos because they can improve safety - admittedly with the expense of giving a populistic wrong impression.
Good points. Issue in my mind is when the opinions are formed based on videos where people are earning money from them. The drama sells so they’ll be tempted to place as much of it as they can in one vid and paint it as risky as possible
I've always thought that it's obvious that this doesn't happen all the time, but now that you say that people actually think that nürburgring is just a massive demolition derby circuit then i can understand why the ring wouldn't want those videos...
I fully understand, but I always thought that at Apex, you were not filming crashes, but more explaining what went wrong and giving lot's of context, whenever one of you cars crashed. Witch did not seem to be very often. It might be stupid, but when I first found Apex, it was through Micha. I was watching a lot of laps of the Ring then, so inevitably one of them had to be with Micha. And he was talking about "now we call this Micha corner". It was not for sure only that that spiked my interest but more so his natural voice and way of talking on camera, but still. So I fully understand that all those crash videos are not OK, but miss the more educational videos of small crashes explained without showing the crash itself.
I think the only crashes he showed the actual crash of was him in the m4 and then him in the rcn race correct?
We had shared 2 rental crashes where we discussed the situation and that’s not something I’m 100% against doing again
Another inteligent approach and perfect summary !!!
Really good point, I've never been to the ring and loads of people ask me if I'm going to go and for years my answers been "I've got no interest in smashing my car up". I knew at the time it was probably unfounded, but my RUclips suggestions was a wall of crashes. However i really enjoyed the lap you put in with your daughter. Maybe it's time to do a lap in your UP!
You’ll love it. The most concerned are generally the safest!!
@@RobertMitchell yeah I'll take a trip, I'm doing a couple days at spa in my Caterham with RSR so might take a detour via you and rent a Polo.
Hello Robert, I was hoping to go around the Nurburgring on my way to Bavaria in September so looked at a couple of crash ones on purpose, not because of schadenfreude but to see if I could learn anything - which I did in that it can be easy to have an accident (esp BMW in the wet) so decided I would go around for fun and enjoyment rather than a time. For that the videos were invaluable but can wholly see your points why they would not want them due to attracting the wrong attention from people who could campaign to stop it. Cheers.
you are a good example of someone that it has helped!!! I have some ideas to present to the ring to see if we can get some action back online
Crash videos made me realise that you cant fuck with the ring and made me a safer driver on it. Thats my view. I think its actually good for the ring because it makes people aware and also gets alot of media succes and more visitors
I understand the motivation for taking control over the crash Videos, but now an equally biaised view of the Ring is painted...just come and drive the hell out of your car and even with no experience or skills you are safe..their is never anything happening..fully safe and fools proove
I think that awareness to the risks needs to be presented but maybe not in a method that is profitable for those presenting it:-). If there wasn’t money Involved then maybe it would look more realistic
@@RobertMitchell They could do something like Nordschleifen TV with HD live video streaming from the most interesting places around the ring, on subscription basis. This would for sure be subscribed by lots of people being able to follow the activities around the Nordschleife. Then you also would get a feeling for the amount of incidents of all kinds throughout the day.
I agree, I think NOT showing any crash footage at all, paints an unrealistic picture that could cause even more crashes. Clearly there could be a balance, but Nurburgring aren't interested (at this point) in striking that balance unlike with the Photographers. They could very easily give out media licenses that limit crash footage to 1/10th of the video content or the title must not contain "CRASH" "BEST CRASH VIDEO" etc etc. However that doesn't stop other people making compilation videos from the content! I must admit I'm a fan of Compilation videos - Ironically one of the most important things that I've found out about (but not experienced thank god) is the danger of OIL on the track. AutoAddiction I believe had a video containing a compilation of why you need to be ever so careful if there is any hint of oil. Do I have the answers? Nope, but I hope that one is found!
The mystique about the Nurburgring was built on the idea that it was the most dangerous race track in the world. The Green Hell. If all the crash footage is censored and people don’t talk about them, it takes away from that image somewhat.
Whilst I understand they want to promote a brand in a good way, the whole brand has come about because it IS a dangerous place and crashes DO happen.
It may have been built on it but it would be a shame for it to be closed based on this mystique as well;-)
Robert Mitchell 100% agree that it shouldn’t be closed. That surely comes down to people not being such wet lettuces and letting us live our lives. Health and safety going mad is the issue I would say
When i tell people that i drive on the ring there reaction is always the same: it's dangerous, everybody crashes there
It's what people think thanks to the crash video's🤷🏻♂️
Is it a problem? There are plenty of things in the world general public has a false image of.
i dont see it as a problem its just the way people see the ring..
As a viewer I, myself, have seen the compilations for what they were and understood how far and few between incidents actually can be. But I do realize that is a very subjective thing and people will all percieve a video differently.
Oh...is the nürburing in china now?
Sorry guys, but I disagree for a lots of reasons - knowing that most viewers just want to see crash action to let them feel better or whatever and public attention of non-ringlovers could grow against the ring. But we as ring community have to withstand that and the nbr gmbh has to do it as well. We live in a free society and media has become a big part of it. So be honest and show all parts of nbr live.
Yes, it's their property and they can do what they want, but it's also a public road and nbr gmbh does profit a lot of that. Most of the (german) vehicles are insured via the nationwide system. So everybody who's paying in germany should be able to see whats happening on that small part of public road. Like we're getting media on any other crash on the autobahn or elsewhere in the evening news on tv.
Besides, I fully agree on the educational part of it like some other comments did already. Schwedenkreuz for example is simply dangerous if you're not experienced. You may follow a faster car and realize to slow down when it's already to late. The videos might help to avoid that.
And yes @robert. It is simply crazy to have a real race track open up for anybody without a briefing. So please do not let a non realistic imagine be created. Even if the successful laps are the majority, but the non successful laps can have a much higher influence on the drivers life or, even more, the lives of others, who might do a real tourist lap and not a race lap, like (lets be honest on that) most of the people do.
So in the end...allow crash videos (hopefully without glorification) to keep active or new ring lovers educated and please let's not have a censored press on a topic of public interest.
Thanks for the video! Love your and Mishas content.
(32, ring enthusiast, active driving since 2008)
I’m with you on many points. The issue is when the crash videos are for profit and they glorify it. This is where the crash vid media makes things look as if everyone goes and crashes...
Look what media has done w the whole covid 19 situation for example.
Yes, agree on your point as well. I would love to see a solution somewhere in the middle. It's definitely up to the media/press as well to follow some kind of codex not only foccusing on clicks or profit. But I guess this will be a tough one...
100% with you! Sadly when money and publicity are Involved tact isn’t always at the forefront of operations
I agree to some extent, the only thing is that also not posting crashes it’s also not being transparent of what actually happens on the tarmac. Also painting a picture that crashes do not happen it’s also the wrong one.
This is also slowing technological advances for safety to the drivers as any technology that could help identify and notify about hazards on the tarmac are denied because someone could look at how many incidents happen.
You mentioned the administration got behind the pictures and videos and they should also consider to get in front of the challenge of a transparent image balanced with safety.
I don’t think there is any technology advancement you could achieve based on ring crash videos.
The ring is very aware of the number of accidents and they are actually working on some cool safety and warning updates. When politicians push for safety it’s often via closure, not via improved equipment. Very much hindered by tunnel vision sadly.
Robert Mitchell of course not with the crash videos by them selves :) I also know what they are working on as I developed an app and had conversations with them and this knowledge of how many incidents in a topic and concern on bringing technology.
Ooof, not sure how I'm going to explain this one to my 4 year old... he loves sitting on Daddy's lap watching crashes from the track. We even talk about what the drivers did wrong in some cases... I hate to hear/see this for his/our sake. I understand from the track point of view and what it is causing, but personally... kiddo is going to REALLY miss the videos. At least, for now, there are old videos I can hopefully keep him occupied with for some father/son computer time together. He catches on pretty quick when he sees repeats though at his age already.
poor guy, sorry he's lost a cool little bit of time w dad
I'll find some car related goodness he'll enjoy with me I'm sure... just will have to do a little more digging around! :) Thanks for explaining the situation Robert! I can understand the why behind it for sure!
I want to hear you talk about wheels alignment, cars like amg and other expensive cars, aftermarket doesn't provide camber kit. how can we make sure we will have even tire wear without 2 negative degree camber? factory set up is totally okay?
Can you make a video about your background, like what did you do before, how did you get interested in the whole Nurburgring thing, when did you move to DE, etc,... I'm really interested to get the whole picture if it's too personal, no problem I get it :)
Lots of questions about that so I am certain it will happen at some point soon.
i dislike the reality but it makes sense now. thanks for the clarification.
AutoAddiction and other similar youtubers have gone too far regarding crash content. They are filming a whole day of Touristenfahrten, make a 10 min video out of it and if an accident happens the title of the video is CRASH in capital letters and the thumbnail shows the crashed car. Otherwise they use titles such as almost crash or close call. Accidents happen, but this has nothing to do anymore with showing "the reality". Often individual crashes get used several times in multiple compilations. Crash compilation 2019, Top 10 crashes, BMW crash compilation, ... VLN crashes mixed with tf crashes. You just have to read some of the comments below the compilations. The amount of people with wrong assumptions about tf and the Nürburgring in general is enormous.
The Nürburgring management has had a problem with this for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they resorted to harder methods.
Funny you mentioned K-town lol that’s the area I’m in and my wife is stationed at Ramstein
You should pop up sometime and say hi!!!
Robert Mitchell we plan on making a trip back to the ring soon after we make some changes to the cars! Or did you mean in Kaiserslautern? Lol
It's nice to see one of my questions are answered :D
Maybe if auto addiction (and other channels) filmed some actual tourists on touristenfahrten and not the same GT3RS/ E92 over and over again people would actually watch the normal video’s because they’re in it.
Hehe
Well if 99% of all the cars on track are GT3RS/E92 and only 1% are truly tourists, the video would only be 1 minute long.
Robert I would love to get your opinion on the GT3RS , the Mclarens , and the pista I know all of them have their own individual traits but I would love to get your opinion since you drove them from a “track” perspective and I am a track type of person so I would love your opinion and maybe your top 3 out of those ? And why
have you seen my video on the 675 vs GT2 vs 675 LT? That may be an interesting one for you!
ruclips.net/video/whH3LWQZGYE/видео.html
@@RobertMitchell Yes! Funny enough, right when I clicked on this video, I've seen it in the related list. Thank you for the insights you provide beyond the looks or status of these cars. It means a lot for not just myself, but I would assume a lot of people who truly love the capabilities of these cars and for the people who truly admire the track side of things. It's a lot cooler to me than a RUclipsr who just goes to busy streets and shows off a Lamborghini, but that's my opinion I guess! Great work on the videos, keep em coming!
Huh, I was wondering how come the repost of the video. Had no idea youtube glitched out. I guess that's the curse of first.
@robert mitchell @auto addiction When I did a small private track day before the 24hrs a few years ago with a popular company on the Ring, a part of the briefing were Auto Addiction videos, mostly on what “not to do”, or how not to react. It made me understand the track and actually less nervous about driving correctly. Some sort of crash videos should still be available for educational purposes! (And for fun too, but I understand the political situation)
Your points are raising contrary question - if there were a lot of videos of crashes, well in that case there are a lot of crashes happening. It would be much more productive if Nurburgring saw those crash videos as alert sign.
That sign could lead to mandatory "Nurburgring amateur permit" that would cost for example 100 Euros. For example, if you are coming for first time, you must apply to Ring permit course that consists of:
- 1. Obligatory theory class and training circle with Nurburgring official training car along with qualified person to let you know how to implement all rules from theory class. After you accomplish those two obligations you are getting written permit with serial code that is attached to your name. Next time when you are buying ticked for Ring, you cant buy ticked without permit.
That would be REAL solution. Prohibiting crash videos is simple solution where Nurburgring managament is hiding their curcial problem.
you probably answered this already but where do you get your shoes?
The shoes are called groundies!
I don't understand the problem. The crashes weren't made up, they happened, so it's only a documentation. Crashes and racing/ driving too fast goes hand in hand, but of course they don't happen all the time. There is absolutely no need to protect something that hasn't to be protected. The unbroken popularity and success of the Nurburgring shows that in my opinion. I go further and say it is important for Nurburgringfans in particular to be reminded that it is dangerous to drive there fast if you don't have experience and respect for the track. Removing all the crashvideos only creates a false impression of safety, what could backfire and probably will.
Did you kiss the part about politics and the need to keep it from being shut down by shining a light on just the crashes?
It is A public road where families can drive on it is not “racing” therefore this should not be compared to Racing! Crash videos from
Races are not censored or limited. Just from public driving
@@RobertMitchell You mean a family father who always wanted to drive on the famous track doesn't have to be reminded of the danger? Ok, then. Maybe you are right. Sure, why should the Ring company care if he dies or destroys his car AFTER he has paid for the ticket?!? The company has its money and he probably wouldn't have come back anyways. Business always comes first, i forgot.
@@skynetsworld Why should they care? From a fiancial standpoint: A crash often leads to a closure of the whole track for hours. Imagine how many laps of ~30€ per car are not being driven in this period.
Great answer spread the good news and not people's bad days...
Can you explain to us (me) with zero knowledge why so many people lose control at brunnchen?
No good reason. It’s an easy place to drive tbh but an even easier place to show off for the crowds and get in over your heads!
As much as I like freedom around the Ring, I always hated the crash videos making money (ads) off other people's misery... Also the gas station departure videos should be stopped as well for different reasons. VLN and other racing series should be totally fine showing everything, like all other racing series.
Agreed.
Also this whole thing "laughing at someone else's misery / pain / accident". Damaged cars are one thing but what about the people inside? They might be injured for life because they couldn't see an oil spill or a deer jumping out in front of the car.
So I'm glad to hear that those videos are gone and I can start to enjoy more good videos from this epic track!
I love those crash videos. As long as you hide the licenseplate and the face everything should be fine.
Imagine the packages put together with the taxi service and whoooooaaaaaaasss combined. Talk about an experience.
Btw. Thanks for the 1st limited edition video!
Naturally gonna watch this again 👊
Robert, is it worth getting a supercar if you don’t drive it on track? Do you drive spiritedly on public roads?
yes, for many it is! for me its not. ... I really only like them on track. I am going to do something crazy this year though (for me) I am going to take my LT spider to Italy and leave it there for several months to try and enjoy...
Here i am 5 Minutes into the Video and i just realised i already watched it on monday, i have the memory of a brick
Hahahahaha haha. That’s awesome
Bricks have great memory
What I dont like in crash video is that people in comments acts like they have neverade a mistake, like they run 7:20 in their e39 or Civic 5 and are Just Gods on the Road.
I would like to See them to know what was done wrong, what kind of behaviour people should avoid. But I dont think Thats possible in a Way those videos were posted - some emoji, HUGE CRASH COMPILATION title etc.
So in the end, I think Thats a loss for people who want to learn but its Just the way it had to be because most people dont want to learn, they want to feel better than others (look, I didnt crash in 20 years of driving to work, i am good right? )
Could you made a video Talking about mistakes in driving, but not the common one you See in others but the ones you did and saw later when you had more experienced?
Just an idea, I can understand why you might not want to do that
100% we will do just that. Make a vid about common mistakes
I actually think crash videos can be a positive thing, you can learn from the mistakes made and exercise extra caution at the hot spots where people come off.
Interesting thing is that some of the hotspots are due to showing off for the camera. W / O cams there Brunnchen has less crashes for example. There was on in the last couple days but it’s not too often anymore strangely
Sundays aren't the same without a beer and some crash videos. Who the hell thinks that happens all the time?
People crazy....
WE WANT CRASH VIDEOS. Give the people what they want.
Hehe:-)
very true! thank you robert
With success comes bureaucracy ..... it‘s always the same. Let‘s hope it doesn‘t get to the point, where it takes all the fun out of the Nuerburgring.
Not at all! I’m ok w it!
"Painting a picture" of the Nordschleife without crashes is like saying the Bundeswehr is only going to Afghanistan to build Schools. It's wishfull thinking. Just be honest, crashes are good for everyone. The Viewers have fun and get respect, the crashkid learns something, Bongart makes money, NR makes money, repair shops make money and those guys who come to Apex and say things like "oh im so afraid to drive there, all i see is crashes", those are the same ppl who sit at home with a facemask and rubber gloves.
ah but there aren't videos of the Bundeswehr out shooting and blowing people up on the daily from War Addiction RUclips channel either :) We know what they are doing, we know what happens but they aren't live streaming every sniper shot. Occasionally a bit explosion video leaks to RUclips but not daily hits.
Some people can't afford to crash on the ring and if they think that 1 in 10 do then they'll stay off being with gloves and mask on or not:)
To me all these Crash Videos come down to a kinda sad thing in our society called "Sensationalism" or in german "Sensationslust".
When you post crashes, you get more views, cause many people seem to be bored when they see normal driving videos in which nothing serious happens.
There is something involved we Germans call "Schadenfreude". Having fun, laughing when other people destroy their vehicles. Very sad in my eyes.
Same happens in the Rally Scene. I am a big fan of the Rally Sport, i think they are the best, most skilled drivers in all Motorsports.
And as you would expect, the Videos with the most Crashes and Fails get the most views and likes.
100% !!! It crosses all cultures and is kinda sad
Interesting info that I was unaware of...
Is every acre around the Nordschleife property of the Nürbugring itself?, i thaught most land, forests or "naturschutzgebiete" are property of the bundesland ,gemeinde or (here in the southern parts) the church
Thank you! Great vid.
Thank you !
Denying reality, is never gut!
How can they prohibit anyone standing behind the fence filming the track, isn't that just public road (or at least many parts of it) where filming is allowed ?
Has the pendulum, like in many cases, swung too far?
A complete ban with the penalties that can incur seems like swinging too far in the other direction.
Granted I don't live, work or play anywhere near the Nürburgring so I am not really familiar with it in the same way.
Someday I hope to come from Canada to not crash with Apex Taxi :)
I suspect that the balance is as you suggest somewhere in the middle
I can see them not wanting crash videos for political reasons. But I wonder how much people have learned from those videos and how much they have brought the heros down from driving 10/10ths to a more reasonable pace?
Anyway, as always I enjoyed your common sense approach to the issue. Thanks for sharing. 👍
I think this is true however you have some idiots that want fame who fling it in where the cameras Are and then crash too
@@RobertMitchell very good point.
Running the track in secret sounds like a much worse idea...
keep in mind videographers aren't really allowed anyhow as its private property. so come on my private property and only post up about the bad things that happen and you'll probably get issues w me too
Simply portray the truth/reality on the ring, don't hide mistakes then what's to learn
There's proof enough already to know what to do and what NOT to do. If crashing videos keep getting posted you are giving another reason to close it from the eyes of the public administration. if this censorship was made from the track management people is because they want to preserve the nürburgring . dont you want that?
Love the MTB. What model is it?
It’s a greyp G6.3. Thinking to
Do a video on it
@@RobertMitchell Very nice, looks like a pretty awesome E-bike. I've got an Enduro Elite myself and love riding, so a video on it would be cool.
Don’t give the anti’s any wiggle room to close this famous track.
Is this vlog being reposted? I'm pretty sure I already saw it a few days ago.
Read the description!:-)
Just did. 1st, I was playing it on my TV. 👌
👍👍👍👍
Robert; crash video's are not what we want to see from the Nürburgring.
What kind of shoes are those?
Crash videos are educational in a way, but they should be posted only with the approval of the person that crashed and the race track.
good point as well!
I am so annoyed that there is no Video of my crash on the Nordschleife, would have loved to see how it looked from the outside. Of course I understand why the Nürburgring is banning it, but it's a shame, because I love clips from me driving. I even pay for it, but it has become so hard to find footage of yourself.
What happened?
@@RobertMitchell After the compression in Fuchsröhre I braked and wanted to switch down into 4th gear. Car (MX-5) has done more than 200.000km, shifter is not the most accurate anymore, so I accidently went into 2nd at aprox 150kph. Rear spins round, I try to catch it, drift angle of more than 90°, front wheels on grass (inside), front swings back into the right direction but with a lot of momentum, so I try to stop it, but a little bit too early. Front has grip again and i slightly touched the barrier on the left side.
I was pretty lucky there, not much damage on the car, and only costs for one barrier.
The onboard video is pretty good (guess I'm not allowed to upload (or am I?)), but the external view must be spectacular.
Tried to repeat it in Assetto Corsa and succeeded, but it's not the same as in real life.
Bluebird209 well if it’s your video and your car no one can say too much. I think you should treat it as an analysis of what happened vs a look her get clicks type of thing. Maybe I can help you w that and talk about what was happening at each point of the video. Could be a good way to start sharing some of these things in a positive way
@@RobertMitchell Sounds like a plan :)
Is it an illusion or is door gap really as uneven as it looks?
Valid reflections. Good video.
Hi Robert! Would you say being a photographer at the Nurburgring pays decently?
Hehe not really tbh. You’d have to be at TF every day. All VLN races, RCN, track days, get companies and teams paying you for shots etc. I’d say it would be a tough nut to crack tbh
@@RobertMitchell I'd love to give that nut a crack! Thanks for the info!
I always try to buy a few photos every time I go out to support the photographers