Ford did something similar about a year ago. My truck lost about 1 MPG after the update and used more DEF. recently lost my emissions equipment in a boating accident.
Well....what about torque limiting. These trucks are garbage with the torque management. I dont know that you would even see a change. I have a 22 with the "little cummins" Once upon a time I had a Ford 6.0....it was an 05 for the F6 trans and from a dig that truck would spank my 22....even though the Cummings is rated much higher. The 0-60 on HO VS standard....is almost identical despite the HO having another 200 lb/ft and more HP. I don't think you will even see this recall in daily commenting for performance. Living with the truck pulling a service trailer and a heavy bed service box you probably will....thst requires all the beans.
Tq management affects 1st-2nd I think maybe 3rd but the 1:1 ratio with 3:73 gears in ram is 4th gear think it would be fine on the dyno just lock it in 4th
I’m sure they’ll take it to the local dealer and will have the TFL truck in and out fast. They don’t want to be messing around with a company who has a huge RUclips and media presence. Everyone else, good luck to you.
I had the ECM update done two weeks ago and the only noticeable difference is DEF usage did increase. Power, performance and mileage don’t appear to be affected at this time.
With it being a NOx related issue, your experience 100% makes sense. DEF is primarily used to reduce NOx emissions. With all of the big players using DEF, I would be curious if pre-update cummins trucks use less DEF than their Powerstroke or Duramax counterparts (same years).
@@edwardpeters4700i’m very curious about this too. I wonder if there’s a slightly dated video comparing DEF consumption between Duramax, power stroke and Cummins
Kori @Pppei is doing testing and data collection before and after the recall with an emissions engineer to see the difference. They should be able to determine the problem as well as the result. This happens in February. Hopefully late Feb or early March we will know exactly transpired. So far, no one I’ve seen posted an impact
@@stinkymcstinkerton1854 Nothing new, it's right on the EPA's website and repeated on the CARB website. Nobody said the 2019-2023 were getting recalled except the RUclipsrs. They even stated why, nothing to fix.
@@DusdaddyI looked it up after shortly after I posted . My first alert was from this channel. . I was relieved to read Gen 5 not included. I just got done dealing with stellantis on an ecodiesel. Gen 4. It’s wasn’t easy… Odd they’re testing the 22
Relay was recalled for staying on and melting the bolt insulator. But the killer bolt and insulator is still there waiting to weaken from years of cycling. Wiggle test still applies.
That’s awesome that y’all are setting a current reference point. This will help to identify where the changes were made. Hopefully this update won’t neuter the Cummins like they did the ecodiesel, that truck cold would have no power from a standstill and once you hit 2k rpm it’s finally had some power
This a RAM recall, not a Cummins recall! As a certified Cummins tech, I can not perform this recall because the 6.7 in Ram pickups is different than the B6.7. There is also the fact that the ECM and aftertreatment systems are RAM equipment not supplied by Cummins. Why does this recall not cover the B6.7 used in other REAL trucks like Mack, International and Freightliner? This is a Stellantis problem, not a Cummins problem!
I really like your testing procedures, my only thing is I would like to have seen the towing and empty mpg loops been the same loop. Not that it would really effect anything just more of a personal preference. The only other thing I could think of for testing would be to see if you could book a Dyno appointment and get real world horsepower and torque numbers before and after recall. That being said I love the persision and care yall are taking in doing the before and after testing
DEF usage will drop as that's what's injected to control NOx. Fuel economy is DEFINITELY going to take a hit as it will need to run richer with more EGR to reduce combustion temps. Power may be ok as these engines have lots of tuning left on the table to compensate. And given it's not a bad as Volkswagen, it's probably not going to be as drastic. But what do I really know.
No power loss. This was discovered way back in 2019. The 2019s got the update years ago with recall VB6, the 2020+ already have the updated software from the factory and this includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 are now getting it in the mail.
Great informational video as always, guys. This will be super beneficial to Cummins owners to help them understand what this recall is going to mean for their truck's performance.
Still no follow up? I have not had recall 67A done. They claim it is free, well it is not. My local dealer is so incompetent and lying to you is the norm, I will never set foot in their again. So that leaves me with a 220 mile round trip and a day shot. I use my truck mainly for towing a 37 foot 5th wheel. Something will change, and if I were to guess it will be more DEF usage and maybe poorer fuel economy, so it will cost me. Cummins paid out a huge amount of money, but I never saw a cent, but should have, I was lied to also. I just received a reminder from Chrysler about the recall. The sentence that really stood out about having the recall done was , "Failure to do so could be determined as lack of Proper maintenance of your Vehicle. Wow, and now a threat! I am so threw with Chrysler.
Your dealers crap also. My dealer Stoneridge, in California has done 15 recalls on our truck. The one for the steering stabilizer bracket, they actually left bolts missing and halfway out. I currently have no tags on our truck after paying $680 for new tags carb is holding me hostage. I need to set aside a day also and find a better dealer and I refuse to leave my truck overnight anymore I’m afraid they might try to weld the steering adjuster clamp. Don’t care about the tailgate maybe falling open still need that latch fixed. What a hassle.
There's no reason why this incident should cause the end of the diesel trucks. Ford and GM haven't had that problem. So Ram needs to get their you know what going and concentrate on fixing the problem honestly. They just tried to cut the corner and got caught.
I didn’t notice any changes after the VB6 recall on my 2019. Hopefully for the later models, the recall’s impact to vehicle performance is unnoticeable.
Question. Why is Ram issuing this for so many trucks when the EPA says only certain 2019 trucks and 2013-2015 trucks that didn't receive S87 needs it. And for trucks that receive 67A without being on the EPA list, do they still get the extended warranty?
My truck is on the hit list. I'm not doing the recall until I know more about it. So... looking forward to the next video. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone has done an emissions test before and after. I can certainly imagine a case where the fix causes more emissions on the test and possibly fail to pass.
The fuel consumption towing that ute is pretty impressive especially allowing for elevation, weight and lack of aero. In 2014 I hired a new (about 1600miles on clock) E350 RV with the 5.4 V8 petrol engine, a good day was 10mpg more often 7mpg at interstate speeds. For contrast towing a full height caravan around Australia with a 2.8 litre VM diesel powered Colorado at 100k mostly 5th gear, 6th in no wind / following wind, uses 17 l / 100 (13.5 mpg) most times, 20 l / 100 (11.5 mpg) into a sandstorm. Just goes to show diesel is the berries for towing. I keep hearing good things about the 6.7 litre Ram and I think Andre's towing test figures confirm that.
My prediction will be more DEF use and more regen over time as the DPF gets more soot from the EGR in "normal" operating mode. That would result in very little power change but some extra fuel and DEF use. Once the DPF needs more regen then fuel economy will drop some. Long term there will be the EGR cooler blockage and coking of the intake valves.
The few test out the show zero power and fuel economy change. None that I've seen have tested def usage. TFL will be the bottom line. I'm behind the blue curtain in Kommiefornia so the update will be mandatory. My 2018 Limited Tungtsen Edition only has 57,000 miles on it so it's not leaving the fold anytime soon. Never say never though.
This is pretty much what happened to my 2015 jetta TDI, was getting like 45 -48MPG, after the recall it got 37 - 40MPG, they said it would be like 2MPG drop but it was actually like 6 -8MPG. Didn't make since anymore having it with the price of diesel to gas, looked into what it would be to delete it and after that got 50 - 53MPG.
I own a 2014 VW Touareg TDI and the diesel “fix” primarily affected cold start smoothness and the amount of DEF it uses. MPG’s may have dropped by 1-2 mpg, but that could as much be related to typical aging and I feel no real power difference (using my butt dyno). I’m guessing the Cummins fix will be similar.
The fix ruined my 2015. Lost over 1 second 0-60, reduced mpg and the transmission tuning was unsafe and undriveable. Then taking off from a stop you could literally count 1 one-thousand 2 one-thousand 3 one-thousand and then the car would begin to pull away. Pre fix it would run a low 7 second 0-60 with brake boost and high 7s with no brake boost. The quickest it ever ran post fix was 8.6 seconds and if you didn't brake boost it was nearly 11 seconds. Tune and TCM flash are required for those tdi.
3 years doesn't matter as it's already taken care of. The issue was discovered in 2019. They immediately sent recall VB6 for the 2019 trucks. The 2020+ trucks already have the updated software, and that includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 trucks are now receiving the recall in the mail.
Except, CARB states will require this recall for registration renewal. Although, the EPA will allow up to three years to take care of 85% of all these truck recalls.
How is the testing coming long? I just did the recall on Friday since I live in California and was required to do it prior to renewing the registration. I'd be curious as to what exactly the ECM re-calibration does. According to the dealer service tech I talked to on Friday they said the truck mostly will just use a bit more DEF fluid and that there shouldn't be a reduction in power however I don't know if what they are saying is entirely true which is why I am waiting for your guys' testing on this. Also, the time it took to get this done at the dealer was pretty fast, took less than an hour to complete.
Had the 67A recall done last week. I have no idea what the PCM update involves but I can tell the difference in unloaded performance. The truck has regened twice in 150 miles of mixed highway and city. Also, the truck feels like it’s not running as free as it used to, especially at lower RPM’s and top gear acceleration. So far it looks like I’ve lost about 2 mpg’s or so DEF usage still to be determined but I would imagine that it will increase. Not too terrible but still a bummer. Had to do the recall for CA registration.
I think the best outcome for this situation is for them to increase the DEF usage. This won’t affect the power or fuel economy, and it will be the least noticeable change to meet the ridiculous emissions standards. As a truck driver the DEF usage was increased a few years ago, and I’ve had a truck with a 2020 Cummins X15, and currently a 2024 DD15 and both consume DEF at a rate of between 150 mpg-200 mpg. Even though they use a ton of DEF the fuel mileage is better, the power is better, there are fewer regens, and the engine is not suffocated as much with EGR as compared to trucks between 2007-2017. The emissions standards have always been slightly more stringent with commercial vehicles than with private use vehicles, but what the commercial trucks have now and what they’re going to get in the future will eventually be added to personal diesel trucks. It’s absurd that California is allowed to have the power to set emissions regulations throughout the entire country.
According to a pdf from the California dept of justice the recall is for 13-19 trucks. According to the document cummins will fix the trucks (sotware update) and provide an extended emission warranty. 10 year or 120k miles from initial purchase or 4 year 48k which ever is greater. On 13-18 the warranty will cover def and scr system. 19 covers the same but adds EGR. There is nothing listed for 2020 to current so either their not eecalling those or there is a seperate recall coming. Appreciate the video but it might be for nothing. Do a search for consent decree 1/10/2024 and look for the California dept of justice. It a large doc but explains everything pretty well.
According to what I've seen the warranty will be for every truck that has the recall performed no matter where the truck resides. In the list of parts covered I did not see anything about the DPF
I have a 2019 Cummins ram 2500 I bought new. I went on line to check the recall and it had been done a year ago when they replaced my CP-4 fuel pump. I think they knew this was coming for a long time.
Can't wait for the results of the post-recall test! At the beginning of the video, I was yelling "DEF consumption please", but, it looks like the Banks Telemetry system records that as well. This "before-after" test should give a good "real world" result. This should be an easy recall, because there are no parts involved. They just re-flash the ECU, and can probably do it while you wait.
For reference, I tracked DEF usage on a 2022 Ram with the identical engine, I did a 10k mile trip towing a trailer, DEF worked out to 2.4% of fuel burned.
Mine already uses twice as much def as my power stroke did, so let’s hope that don’t get worse, I’m gonna be one of the the last ones to get mine done, that’s for sure😂
Ram has done hundreds of thousands of this recall already under VB6...mine unknowingly last March, since the news was not out yet. Bullshit excuse from the dealer that it was tied to my valve body recall and cp3 replacement. I've only noticed that the regen happens a hell of a lot more. Not so sure about excessive def use. Certainly no power loss but the mpg goes to shit thanks to regeneration every 100 miles. Sorta pissed off but my $80k 2019 Ram is still a thing of beauty.
Based on Andre's description of the recall, the number of vehicles and the model years that will first be addressed (2013-2018) it sounds like it might be quite a long time before TFL's truck gets the work done.
If you did the CP3 recall they did an ECU reflash and the results after the recall killed my MPG and my DEF consumption is through the roof. Hard to tell if I lost any other drivability issues as I didn't think the reflash would make such a drastic difference to my MPG and DEF...I was getting almost 18 MPG (Its a 2019 3500 SRW and I run 37s, Carli "leveling" kit, I have an FWC camper on it all the time and always have the truck loaded with offroad and recovery gear)...not I get 13 ish MPG. I have not changed my driving habits or style in any way. So...If that recall was done on your test truck, Ram may have already put the lower MPG/Higher DEF tune in it. I know Ram knew about this potential EPA fine and I think they started adding the anticipated changes into ECU flashes. It would be nice to compare a truck that has had NO recalls done (that required an ECU reflash) to a post EPA recall (whatever they are calling that recall/reflash).
We don't want to see the recall. We want TFL Truck and every truck owner to Push Back, Too Say No, we're not going to take this this.. These Trucks we're certified as having met current emissions requirements at the time of their sale. They can't dictate a change years later too private vehicle's that have already met the requirements at time of sale. TFL should find a NOX emissions facility and do a before and after test. Because I think this is all about acquiring money for EPA/CARB. We have to Say No. I have a question. Who monitored the Testing and Truck used in the testing during the EPA test???
Excellent presentation. Thank you. You know that it will not end with positive results for the owners. As with the Ford overstating the 7.3 horsepower, the manufactures just want to get your money and then do damage control after the fact if needed. With the Tesla Cybertruck, many of the promised features are "disabled" and not "completed" yet. Tesla actually wants you to buy a "unfinished" truck and just wait around for the features to be finished. Tesla has been doing this more often lately. Crazy to see missing promises for the Model S just now finally being available to customers after years of waiting. Just seems to be standard operating procedures now.
Please show me the mission's numbers between the old vehicle and the updated Knox. Co axio oxygen all those numbers during real live transparency tests
@location_florida 0 seconds ago I hate to break it to you mpg guys but I'm getting 19 city and 25+ highway in my 99 super duty 7.3 tuned to 400hp lifted with 33. Don't get me wrong, I like Cummins. Cummins 6bt (5.9) and the international 444 (7.3) are the best engines ever put in light trucks. To give some comparison I get 6-7.5 mpg in my 2020 Kenworth with a 450hp Cummins x15 pulling 70k, it still has def right now. Have not got it deleted yet. You will pick up more mpg by deleting the def on any engine. First thing to do to any modern diesel is to delete the def and turn off egr. You will get more mpg and be WAY more reliable
With diesel you need to do the 30 second refill a number of times. The diesel foams and turns off the nozzle. So it takes more times to get the tank "full". Sure are going light on towing.
Good test. And good news for the owners on the '22, but likely not what you want to hear, but your '22 is not eligible for the recall. The EPA said the recall is not coming to the 22 because it already meets the emission requirements.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Seriously when are you gonna follow up on this?
Ford did something similar about a year ago. My truck lost about 1 MPG after the update and used more DEF. recently lost my emissions equipment in a boating accident.
Man those boat ramps sure are brutal. 😂
Lol hate when that happens
I hope the boat is ok?
If they find out, you're going to pay for an entire system or get your truck crushed. Aint worth deleting.
@ineedapharmists depending where you live, you will never be checked. And without asking, I bet he kept everything
A dyno test before and after would be great, too.
Yes, the best comparison would be before and after tests on the same dyno.
Well....what about torque limiting. These trucks are garbage with the torque management. I dont know that you would even see a change. I have a 22 with the "little cummins"
Once upon a time I had a Ford 6.0....it was an 05 for the F6 trans and from a dig that truck would spank my 22....even though the Cummings is rated much higher.
The 0-60 on HO VS standard....is almost identical despite the HO having another 200 lb/ft and more HP.
I don't think you will even see this recall in daily commenting for performance. Living with the truck pulling a service trailer and a heavy bed service box you probably will....thst requires all the beans.
Tq management affects 1st-2nd I think maybe 3rd but the 1:1 ratio with 3:73 gears in ram is 4th gear think it would be fine on the dyno just lock it in 4th
@@wadebrewer7212it got spanked because you call it a Cummings.
@user-ln7of9gs4s my bad. I dont proof reed...its youtube and far from the most important thing in my life
What happend to the after test? Did Cummins, or the EPA put the kibosh in this video?
Glad they haven’t given a date yet. Keeps my favorite TFL truck in the fleet longer.😊
I’m sure they’ll take it to the local dealer and will have the TFL truck in and out fast. They don’t want to be messing around with a company who has a huge RUclips and media presence. Everyone else, good luck to you.
I had the ECM update done two weeks ago and the only noticeable difference is DEF usage did increase. Power, performance and mileage don’t appear to be affected at this time.
With it being a NOx related issue, your experience 100% makes sense. DEF is primarily used to reduce NOx emissions. With all of the big players using DEF, I would be curious if pre-update cummins trucks use less DEF than their Powerstroke or Duramax counterparts (same years).
@@edwardpeters4700i’m very curious about this too. I wonder if there’s a slightly dated video comparing DEF consumption between Duramax, power stroke and Cummins
For what it’s worth my 2020 duramax goes approximately 6k on a 2.5 gallon jug of def
You have an idea about how much? Our 15 ram 3500 cab and chassis uses about 2.5 gallons per 50 gallons of fuel. But its worked pretty hard.
@@stevenwescott1422 I just filled this past Friday, will see what the average is now.
Hey TFL - can you please do a dyno test before/after as well? That would likely be the most conclusive - Thanks for doing these tests!!
2019-2023 will not be recalled according to the EPA.
Kori @Pppei is doing testing and data collection before and after the recall with an emissions engineer to see the difference. They should be able to determine the problem as well as the result. This happens in February. Hopefully late Feb or early March we will know exactly transpired. So far, no one I’ve seen posted an impact
@@Dusdaddyis that new information? I haven’t received a notice….yet
@@stinkymcstinkerton1854 Nothing new, it's right on the EPA's website and repeated on the CARB website. Nobody said the 2019-2023 were getting recalled except the RUclipsrs. They even stated why, nothing to fix.
@@DusdaddyI looked it up after shortly after I posted . My first alert was from this channel. . I was relieved to read Gen 5 not included. I just got done dealing with stellantis on an ecodiesel. Gen 4. It’s wasn’t easy…
Odd they’re testing the 22
This is probably one of the best most informative video you can make to test all of these changes I can’t wait for results.
Great initial test guys! I had an emissions recall on my f250 and didn't see any changes after pcm flash. Hopefully it's the same for you!
Do you think Ford has been "cheating" too and trying to fix it before they get caught?
So where is the final test!!?? Will there be one?
If Cummins does a recall why do they not recall the heating plate bolt! Thank you for the video guys!
They did.
Relay was recalled for staying on and melting the bolt insulator. But the killer bolt and insulator is still there waiting to weaken from years of cycling. Wiggle test still applies.
When is the video of after the recall going to come out?
I’m here looking for the answer to the same question.
I just got my recall yesterday. I’m waiting for your next video before I do anything. Thanks for doing all of this testing. You guys rock.
What year truck? Curious because the EPA says the TFL truck, 2022, will not be part of the recall.
That’s awesome that y’all are setting a current reference point. This will help to identify where the changes were made. Hopefully this update won’t neuter the Cummins like they did the ecodiesel, that truck cold would have no power from a standstill and once you hit 2k rpm it’s finally had some power
Except their truck won't be recalled according to the EPA. Only the 2013-2018 will.
Thank you guys for really taking this seriously, can’t wait for the follow up video 👍🤗🤗
For all y’all truck owners in California that have to deal with this, I raise my glass to you for putting up with these kinds of setbacks. 🍻
I raise my glass to the Californians stupid enough to still be in California.
Anxious to see part 2, gents. 🙂
They didn’t do it, because nothing changed.
@Raider1836 meaning that the truck had the same power? Used the same amount of DEF? Etc.?
@TFL please find a friend shop to do a dyno test before and after. It would be very telling and make for great content
This a RAM recall, not a Cummins recall! As a certified Cummins tech, I can not perform this recall because the 6.7 in Ram pickups is different than the B6.7. There is also the fact that the ECM and aftertreatment systems are RAM equipment not supplied by Cummins. Why does this recall not cover the B6.7 used in other REAL trucks like Mack, International and Freightliner? This is a Stellantis problem, not a Cummins problem!
I really like your testing procedures, my only thing is I would like to have seen the towing and empty mpg loops been the same loop. Not that it would really effect anything just more of a personal preference. The only other thing I could think of for testing would be to see if you could book a Dyno appointment and get real world horsepower and torque numbers before and after recall. That being said I love the persision and care yall are taking in doing the before and after testing
I'm betting power loss and fuel economy loss after the recall....
And increased DEF usage lol
Reliability loss
DEF usage will drop as that's what's injected to control NOx. Fuel economy is DEFINITELY going to take a hit as it will need to run richer with more EGR to reduce combustion temps. Power may be ok as these engines have lots of tuning left on the table to compensate. And given it's not a bad as Volkswagen, it's probably not going to be as drastic. But what do I really know.
💯. … had semi truck go in for maintenance and get program updates… lower power settings, drank more fuel and was gutless
No power loss. This was discovered way back in 2019. The 2019s got the update years ago with recall VB6, the 2020+ already have the updated software from the factory and this includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 are now getting it in the mail.
Dyno the motor!
Great review, waiting for the followi-up post recall. And rocking the Rush shirt... even better!
Great informational video as always, guys. This will be super beneficial to Cummins owners to help them understand what this recall is going to mean for their truck's performance.
Love that I got a banks pedal commander add during this. Don’t have a diesel yet but lovebanks
Still no follow up? I have not had recall 67A done. They claim it is free, well it is not. My local dealer is so incompetent and lying to you is the norm, I will never set foot in their again. So that leaves me with a 220 mile round trip and a day shot. I use my truck mainly for towing a 37 foot 5th wheel. Something will change, and if I were to guess it will be more DEF usage and maybe poorer fuel economy, so it will cost me. Cummins paid out a huge amount of money, but I never saw a cent, but should have, I was lied to also.
I just received a reminder from Chrysler about the recall. The sentence that really stood out about having the recall done was , "Failure to do so could be determined as lack of Proper maintenance of your Vehicle. Wow, and now a threat! I am so threw with Chrysler.
Your dealers crap also. My dealer Stoneridge, in California has done 15 recalls on our truck. The one for the steering stabilizer bracket, they actually left bolts missing and halfway out. I currently have no tags on our truck after paying $680 for new tags carb is holding me hostage. I need to set aside a day also and find a better dealer and I refuse to leave my truck overnight anymore I’m afraid they might try to weld the steering adjuster clamp. Don’t care about the tailgate maybe falling open still need that latch fixed. What a hassle.
There's no reason why this incident should cause the end of the diesel trucks. Ford and GM haven't had that problem. So Ram needs to get their you know what going and concentrate on fixing the problem honestly. They just tried to cut the corner and got caught.
Did you release the AFTER recall video and your conclusions?
I love the inclusion of the banks data monster! Great engineering and data analysis
I didn’t notice any changes after the VB6 recall on my 2019. Hopefully for the later models, the recall’s impact to vehicle performance is unnoticeable.
-3 mpg ftw
The VB6 is not the recall for the Cummins fine. 67A is the recall.
Where is the update to this video?
wow you guys are real heroes for doing this
Very well put together video guys!
Thank you for the kind words.
Any new updates on part 2 after the recall guys?
Love the sound of that Cummins
Yes. Sounds great!
I work at a dodge dealer. The recall is a 67A and its been out since November
Only for 2013-2018. 2019 had VB6 and 2020+ came with the update from the factory.
for 2013-2021 or all engines to 2024?
Question. Why is Ram issuing this for so many trucks when the EPA says only certain 2019 trucks and 2013-2015 trucks that didn't receive S87 needs it.
And for trucks that receive 67A without being on the EPA list, do they still get the extended warranty?
My truck is on the hit list. I'm not doing the recall until I know more about it. So... looking forward to the next video. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone has done an emissions test before and after. I can certainly imagine a case where the fix causes more emissions on the test and possibly fail to pass.
What happened to Part 2? 🤷🏼♂️
Come on, where's the part II to this video!!!! We want to KNOW!!!!
When are we going to see the sequel to this video with the post update results on the truck?
Have you posted the after recall video yet?
Why haven’t you done the follow up? Did you get rid of the truck?
Love you guys for doing this.
The fuel consumption towing that ute is pretty impressive especially allowing for elevation, weight and lack of aero.
In 2014 I hired a new (about 1600miles on clock) E350 RV with the 5.4 V8 petrol engine, a good day was 10mpg more often 7mpg at interstate speeds.
For contrast towing a full height caravan around Australia with a 2.8 litre VM diesel powered Colorado at 100k mostly 5th gear, 6th in no wind / following wind, uses 17 l / 100 (13.5 mpg) most times, 20 l / 100 (11.5 mpg) into a sandstorm.
Just goes to show diesel is the berries for towing.
I keep hearing good things about the 6.7 litre Ram and I think Andre's towing test figures confirm that.
We are waiting for the after recall to see if or when we'll have it done on our Cummins. Any update?
My prediction will be more DEF use and more regen over time as the DPF gets more soot from the EGR in "normal" operating mode. That would result in very little power change but some extra fuel and DEF use. Once the DPF needs more regen then fuel economy will drop some. Long term there will be the EGR cooler blockage and coking of the intake valves.
Agreed
Agreed
The few test out the show zero power and fuel economy change. None that I've seen have tested def usage. TFL will be the bottom line. I'm behind the blue curtain in Kommiefornia so the update will be mandatory. My 2018 Limited Tungtsen Edition only has 57,000 miles on it so it's not leaving the fold anytime soon. Never say never though.
@@theantiqueactionfigurehave not seen a single dyno pull before and after
This is pretty much what happened to my 2015 jetta TDI, was getting like 45 -48MPG, after the recall it got 37 - 40MPG, they said it would be like 2MPG drop but it was actually like 6 -8MPG. Didn't make since anymore having it with the price of diesel to gas, looked into what it would be to delete it and after that got 50 - 53MPG.
still no update?
Any idea when part 2 will be released? What you’re doing is greatly appreciated.
where is part 2
There ever going to be a part 2?
I own a 2014 VW Touareg TDI and the diesel “fix” primarily affected cold start smoothness and the amount of DEF it uses. MPG’s may have dropped by 1-2 mpg, but that could as much be related to typical aging and I feel no real power difference (using my butt dyno). I’m guessing the Cummins fix will be similar.
The fix ruined my 2015. Lost over 1 second 0-60, reduced mpg and the transmission tuning was unsafe and undriveable. Then taking off from a stop you could literally count 1 one-thousand 2 one-thousand 3 one-thousand and then the car would begin to pull away. Pre fix it would run a low 7 second 0-60 with brake boost and high 7s with no brake boost. The quickest it ever ran post fix was 8.6 seconds and if you didn't brake boost it was nearly 11 seconds. Tune and TCM flash are required for those tdi.
3 years doesn't matter as it's already taken care of. The issue was discovered in 2019. They immediately sent recall VB6 for the 2019 trucks. The 2020+ trucks already have the updated software, and that includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 trucks are now receiving the recall in the mail.
I have a 2022 and was notified of the recall.
I would recommend everyone ignore the recall
Except, CARB states will require this recall for registration renewal. Although, the EPA will allow up to three years to take care of 85% of all these truck recalls.
California needs to leave the rest of us alone.
hey when are you going to post your findings?
The truck isn't being recalled. It doesn't apply to the '22.
Finally you guys went the best, banks!
Where is the follow up to this initial test?
Is part 2 ever coming?
Wondering when we will get an update here. I would think 2 months would be plenty of time to get the recall done and reviewed.
Starting to think they either got a letter from Ram or got paid not to do the follow-up. lol
How is the testing coming long? I just did the recall on Friday since I live in California and was required to do it prior to renewing the registration. I'd be curious as to what exactly the ECM re-calibration does. According to the dealer service tech I talked to on Friday they said the truck mostly will just use a bit more DEF fluid and that there shouldn't be a reduction in power however I don't know if what they are saying is entirely true which is why I am waiting for your guys' testing on this.
Also, the time it took to get this done at the dealer was pretty fast, took less than an hour to complete.
What happened to the "after" video??
Had the 67A recall done last week. I have no idea what the PCM update involves but I can tell the difference in unloaded performance. The truck has regened twice in 150 miles of mixed highway and city. Also, the truck feels like it’s not running as free as it used to, especially at lower RPM’s and top gear acceleration. So far it looks like I’ve lost about 2 mpg’s or so DEF usage still to be determined but I would imagine that it will increase. Not too terrible but still a bummer. Had to do the recall for CA registration.
Hope you can escape CA for the USA
I think the best outcome for this situation is for them to increase the DEF usage. This won’t affect the power or fuel economy, and it will be the least noticeable change to meet the ridiculous emissions standards. As a truck driver the DEF usage was increased a few years ago, and I’ve had a truck with a 2020 Cummins X15, and currently a 2024 DD15 and both consume DEF at a rate of between 150 mpg-200 mpg. Even though they use a ton of DEF the fuel mileage is better, the power is better, there are fewer regens, and the engine is not suffocated as much with EGR as compared to trucks between 2007-2017. The emissions standards have always been slightly more stringent with commercial vehicles than with private use vehicles, but what the commercial trucks have now and what they’re going to get in the future will eventually be added to personal diesel trucks. It’s absurd that California is allowed to have the power to set emissions regulations throughout the entire country.
According to a pdf from the California dept of justice the recall is for 13-19 trucks. According to the document cummins will fix the trucks (sotware update) and provide an extended emission warranty. 10 year or 120k miles from initial purchase or 4 year 48k which ever is greater. On 13-18 the warranty will cover def and scr system. 19 covers the same but adds EGR. There is nothing listed for 2020 to current so either their not eecalling those or there is a seperate recall coming. Appreciate the video but it might be for nothing. Do a search for consent decree 1/10/2024 and look for the California dept of justice. It a large doc but explains everything pretty well.
Does this extended warranty cover trucks registered outside CA? The def/scr system should include the dpf as well.
According to what I've seen the warranty will be for every truck that has the recall performed no matter where the truck resides. In the list of parts covered I did not see anything about the DPF
Exactly! The TFL truck isn't even getting the "update".
A dyno session would have answered all these items with accuracy
I have a 2019 Cummins ram 2500 I bought new. I went on line to check the recall and it had been done a year ago when they replaced my CP-4 fuel pump. I think they knew this was coming for a long time.
Can't wait for the results of the post-recall test! At the beginning of the video, I was yelling "DEF consumption please", but, it looks like the Banks Telemetry system records that as well. This "before-after" test should give a good "real world" result. This should be an easy recall, because there are no parts involved. They just re-flash the ECU, and can probably do it while you wait.
For reference, I tracked DEF usage on a 2022 Ram with the identical engine, I did a 10k mile trip towing a trailer, DEF worked out to 2.4% of fuel burned.
Super tough to make my Cummins use more DEF, since my 2018 Cummins had no DEF system period.
Definitely need dyno numbers pre/post.
Mine already uses twice as much def as my power stroke did, so let’s hope that don’t get worse, I’m gonna be one of the the last ones to get mine done, that’s for sure😂
What front bumper and winch system do you have installed on the truck? Thanks
Ram has done hundreds of thousands of this recall already under VB6...mine unknowingly last March, since the news was not out yet. Bullshit excuse from the dealer that it was tied to my valve body recall and cp3 replacement. I've only noticed that the regen happens a hell of a lot more. Not so sure about excessive def use. Certainly no power loss but the mpg goes to shit thanks to regeneration every 100 miles. Sorta pissed off but my $80k 2019 Ram is still a thing of beauty.
Hahahaha no judgement Nathan, I’ve done the whole 3,2,1 go thing a few times in my life 😂
When is TFL going to do part 2 testing, it's been a month allready.
Was there ever a follow up??
Based on Andre's description of the recall, the number of vehicles and the model years that will first be addressed (2013-2018) it sounds like it might be quite a long time before TFL's truck gets the work done.
Don't worry, Roman won't sell it before January 2027!🤣🤣🤣
If at all. It may already have the update.
If you did the CP3 recall they did an ECU reflash and the results after the recall killed my MPG and my DEF consumption is through the roof. Hard to tell if I lost any other drivability issues as I didn't think the reflash would make such a drastic difference to my MPG and DEF...I was getting almost 18 MPG (Its a 2019 3500 SRW and I run 37s, Carli "leveling" kit, I have an FWC camper on it all the time and always have the truck loaded with offroad and recovery gear)...not I get 13 ish MPG. I have not changed my driving habits or style in any way.
So...If that recall was done on your test truck, Ram may have already put the lower MPG/Higher DEF tune in it. I know Ram knew about this potential EPA fine and I think they started adding the anticipated changes into ECU flashes. It would be nice to compare a truck that has had NO recalls done (that required an ECU reflash) to a post EPA recall (whatever they are calling that recall/reflash).
We don't want to see the recall. We want TFL Truck and every truck owner to Push Back, Too Say No, we're not going to take this this.. These Trucks we're certified as having met current emissions requirements at the time of their sale. They can't dictate a change years later too private vehicle's that have already met the requirements at time of sale. TFL should find a NOX emissions facility and do a before and after test. Because I think this is all about acquiring money for EPA/CARB. We have to Say No.
I have a question.
Who monitored the Testing and Truck used in the testing during the EPA test???
You expect Colorado liberals and Bay Area Californian Nathan to push back? Get a grip.
Maybe Elon and Ramaswami could investigate and find the Waste in the EPA and the carb.
Wow this is a fantastic baseline measurement.
Excellent presentation. Thank you. You know that it will not end with positive results for the owners. As with the Ford overstating the 7.3 horsepower, the manufactures just want to get your money and then do damage control after the fact if needed. With the Tesla Cybertruck, many of the promised features are "disabled" and not "completed" yet. Tesla actually wants you to buy a "unfinished" truck and just wait around for the features to be finished. Tesla has been doing this more often lately. Crazy to see missing promises for the Model S just now finally being available to customers after years of waiting. Just seems to be standard operating procedures now.
Or like computer games then they give you a patch for the mistakes in the game that a simple play would find!
When do we get the update? The reason this video was made…
its like cummins stopped everyone from posting update videos/information
Great test. Hope the recall doesn’t hurt performance.
We know it’s going to
I think the government should have to pay for any work regarding emissions out of warranty, they're the ones mandating that it be installed
Hi great videos guys, thanks 4 doing these tests. what about doing the test for the two engines, regular and high output. thanks
Hey guys. It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison for this. Real numbers don't lie.
So if the recall isnt available, why did you do the testing now? What if its warmer / colder after or before the recall is done.
Does the ecm get locked after the update? ie no more tuning
Please show me the mission's numbers between the old vehicle and the updated Knox. Co axio oxygen all those numbers during real live transparency tests
Where is part 2, after the recall, episode? It’s been forever
@location_florida
0 seconds ago
I hate to break it to you mpg guys but I'm getting 19 city and 25+ highway in my 99 super duty 7.3 tuned to 400hp lifted with 33. Don't get me wrong, I like Cummins. Cummins 6bt (5.9) and the international 444 (7.3) are the best engines ever put in light trucks. To give some comparison I get 6-7.5 mpg in my 2020 Kenworth with a 450hp Cummins x15 pulling 70k, it still has def right now. Have not got it deleted yet. You will pick up more mpg by deleting the def on any engine. First thing to do to any modern diesel is to delete the def and turn off egr. You will get more mpg and be WAY more reliable
Where is the part 2 video showing performance
results post recall
Why would you take it for this recall??? No one is saying you have to do it.
Because people are idiots
With diesel you need to do the 30 second refill a number of times. The diesel foams and turns off the nozzle. So it takes more times to get the tank "full". Sure are going light on towing.
Love How the 2023 Chevy Colorado looks like The Fast Lane Truck
Another channel/guy did this and the performance didn't change when he towed across the same route he takes his truck.
Good test. And good news for the owners on the '22, but likely not what you want to hear, but your '22 is not eligible for the recall. The EPA said the recall is not coming to the 22 because it already meets the emission requirements.
@21:00 - what GPS program is that? I really like the screen layout.
Edit - never mind. It's called "Altimeter GPS+ (Speedometer)".
Were did you guys get the fender flairs for your truck they look really good
Where is episode #2