The issue with Korg is in case of the Wavestate, they showed and sold the 37 key 1st, then released the software edition for almost 1/5th the price. Now given there is nothing special about the hardware, if anything you need the software to make patches and sequencing as the 2 inch LCD is almost impossible to do so. In doing so, you can do without the hardware altogether and just use your own better master keyboard. Now the SE is 4 times the asking of the 37 key, using the same exact design the 37 keys has, only difference is the SE keybed, AT and more voice count. So not to confuse things, Korg currently has the WS Native for $99 US, the SE is 2K from Korg direct. Are they out of their minds? The stand alone software is 1/20 of the SE and they do they exact SAME thing, only the software allows you better control of what you need to do as you don't have a 2 inch LCD screen to work with. Korg went from the best value in my country to the worst value in 1 simple release.
Hi - Yes, disappointing and difficult to understand. I do like the hands-on nature of the controls but agree that menu-diving is an absolute pain and the software is better for programming 👍
I appreciated your honest reviews of the synths. I believe the 37-key versions of synths are intended to be used as sound modules, with the keys primarily designed to aid in programming rather than for live performances. There are many other excellent synths available that can rival the 61-key version of Korg synths.
Hi - Thank you. The original synths are plasticy and maybe not ideal for live use but if they were solely intended as sound modules they should not have included any keyboard. A few people have remarked that they would prefer a desktop version without keys to save space. Given the poor quality of the keys, that makes a lot of sense. Although I guess you can always buy the soft versions...😊
Hi Gregory - Thank you. I thought the video was long enough. I could have gone on... 😊 I thought the 700FS lacked a bit of lustre as a synth to regurgitate. And, yes, I couldn't believe the price. No idea how well it's selling but you don't hear much about it now...
You stated Korg announced/teased an Opsix SE, but it was a Wavestate SE that that was announced initially. You always called the Wavestate SE a wavetable synth, which it is not (the Modwave is a wavetable synth), but instead a wave sequencing synth, like the old Wavestations. I’m not trolling, just throwing in these friendly corrections. I agree that the pricing for the SE models is ridiculous, and the design choices. The extra polyphony in the new Wavestate models is actually beneficial, in that those patches are often composed of layering other patches, but the lack not being multitimbral, the Modsix and Wavestate, the extra polyphony in the Modsix is far less beneficial. I’m not sure how they would have implemented the physical GUI/interface, but a synth combining all three synth engines would have been cool, that keybed and SE dimensions, but with a nicer, color screen, more controls, overall, and the Wavestate, Modsix, and Modwave all in a single keyboard, a la the latest Roland Fantom workstations or the Jupiter-X/xm, for example, with their multiple engines and emulations. And Korg should either improve/upgrade the quality of the keybed in the non-SE versions or discontinue them. And then offer them in module/desktop versions, instead. Or offer both options, if the choice were to offer the non-SE versions with better keybeds. A Wavestate MkII in the Modal Cabalt8 form factor, with Fatar keybed, and that nicer joystick, and a larger screen, even if not color, but able to display the lanes in more detail, and parameters, would be WAY nicer, instead of feeling cheap. The customer shouldn’t have to choose between a cheap feel with a trashy keybed and an overpriced “upgrade”. Give us a Fatar keybed, or comparable, a better screen, a solid, premium feel, and a fair price, even if significantly higher than the current MkII pricing. And if they’re keen on dedicated, 1st-party hate cases, start offering them for most all of their keyboards, modules, etc., or not at all. I’d love to have a flight/hard case for my Minilogue xd made/branded by Korg. Korg Miniloguebass is a stupid cash grab. And the 73-key version of the Nautilus WITHOUT aftertouch, as the 6-octave version of their flagship synthesizer, is also idiotic. Yamaha Montage had aftertouch, as will it’s replacement. Any flagship synth these days without aftertouch is a fail, imo. The Product Development and Marketing teams at Korg need a shaking up, I think.
Trolling? Perish the thought :-) I actually refeer to the Wavestate as a wavesequencer near the beginning although I later call the SE version a Wavetable rather than the Wavestate - a slip of the wavey tongue, alas. Your SE history is probably better than mine and the Wavestate may have been the first tease but I confess I only recall the Op-six SE announcement and it seemed to be the one most folks were interested in. There are so many things Korg could (and maybe should) have done with the SEs. We'll have to wait to see what customer reactions are and how many - ore few - they but.
Korg has improved the FM sounddesign user interface. These synthesizers are the new DX7. They will become a cult classic. They are incredible synthesizers. Thank you Korg.
HI Frans - Yes, it only took someone 40 years to come up with a usable FM interface 😄The Op-Six is a radical improvement although the SE versions are still vastly over-priced...
@@FransvandenBergeMuziekschuur No need to be humble about it 😊 There's room in our little community for all opinions and that's what makes for interesting discussions 👍
@@IanWaugh For all the young people reading this. A Korg Op six SE (that has a case included) and a behringer Poly D keyboard with a case added will make that you can do 90% of all gigs with a band where songwriting is the basis. You will be able to create sounds not heard before. That aren't crasy, but musical and defined and serving for the vocals. You may crave Buchla or a Moog one... but these two keyboards will get the job done. A Buchla or Moog one will be very much a distraction. The original DX7 was as much a synthesizer as a great preset keyboard. The Op six SE is portable, great presets and much easier to evolve on preset sounds so you can call a song sonically your own.
On the positive side, there's plenty of space on front the panel for one or more MIDI control surfaces or another synthesizer. And it does seem to be a quality Instrument. I hope Korg can release a version with polyphonic aftertouch. The aftertouch was probably poly in the original design, since the engine does respond to it.
Yes, you could put a controller on the top but a bit tight for many synths. If they had put the panel on one side like the Hydra... And yes, polyaftertouch might have gone some way to justifying the price. A bit 😊
Just as a point of reference the original Yamaha DX-7, lauded for its affordability and value when it came out in 1983 cost the equivalent in today's money of about $6,200. Many players back then owned several.
Hi - Are you adjusting for inflation? I don't think it's a good metric for price/cost comparison for a few reasons: the cost of technology has fallen dramatically and 'expense' need to be related to disposable income. ruclips.net/video/6RVBYHy_DgE/видео.html
@@ForecastGrim - Not true at all. There was the TX-7 desktop module and theTF rackmount modules. Then you had the DX-5 which was two DX-7's and a one-octave longer keybed. The DX engine also ended up in various EX series organs.
Agree with the video, the price is crazy. You can buy a Roland A88 Mk2 or say an SL61/88 controller + WaveState/Opsix and it would still be cheaper! If I want a flight case I'll buy a proper aluminium one. I think its lazy design to just shove it in a bigger chassis and not make use of the panel area but I can understand the NRE costs in doing so, but it would more justify the price. I'm not sure if its lazy design or better to outsource the CPU to the Pi... I think the reason for the more polyphony is they've had to source a different Pi and it has more CPU grunt and so they can make use of that with more voices. And not a fan of the new case. The corner angle metal pieces look like some stock metal from a home depo / DIY store. I owned a Wavestation in the 90s, but I'll be giving the SE a miss
Hi David - Thanks for your Comment. Yes, the design certainly smacks of laziness, as if they couldn't be bothered to do a decent redesign job. So disappointing... 😢
I have been thinking of the Wavestate SE because I wanted a Wavestate but thought the original "plastic" was too non-professional for travelling etc. I concur I thought the 30+ key versions were too much for the build. As you mentioned, the price point of the SE for the Wavestate and or Opsix is daunting. Too bad the 30+ key ones weren't better keybed and over build @ their initial price. It does seem after the Kronos left the market that the newer models are cheaper-looking to save something but not the consumer.
Yes, I think Korg has lost the quality/pricing plot - they're stuff is not just vastly over-priced but poor quality, too. Their also the new modules. No idea what the quality is like but, again, priced the same as the original versions, but, coupled with a decent keyboard they might be a better option. A least as good as you'll get from Korg these days...
I've bought the Opsix SE and I love it. So much so that I'm planning to buy the Wavestate SE to replace my basic 37 key version. The keyboard adds so much more to these machines
My relevant Korg count: Wavestate 2022 edition Opsix SE Wavestate SE Platinum I have to say that the Opsix SE comes alive with after touch. I love it! The Wavestate SE is enhanced... but also oddly different in its basic sound. Rather more polite, less in your face - the noisy teenager tamed? I've made some great patches on both my Wavestates, but the SE is more refined?? Not sure I can describe things better than this. Note that both SEs are available for under £1k if you look around.
I was waiting for a 61 key Opsix to replace the 37 one I have. At the price point and with the decision to just whack the 37 key Opsix UI in the middle of the chassis and not take advantage of the vast areas of the front panel to remove the need for Shift to access some of the menus, I'll be sticking to playing my Opsix with one of my other keyboards. Korg have lost the plot! Interesting thought for you though. Would we be saying the same thing if they'd led with the Opsix/Wavestate SEs? I think they screwed themselves by starting with cheapies. They set their price anchor and now people can't see the value in the "premium" versions.
Interesting thought. I think reviewers - or some of them 😊 - would have picked up on the multi button combos and wonder why the real estate was not better utilised. And railed against the small screen. And wonder why, for the price, it didn't have poly aftertouch 😊
If they'd just done modules at a reasonable price they'd have been struggling to keep up with demand. Then maybe do a really upgraded SE version further down the road for the true devotees.
Hi Thank you. I only have one camera and I reckon it can get boring watching the same POV for a long time. There's also the thing about engagement and they say movement and different shots help do that. Plus, I need to cut out so many errors and I shift in frame when that happens so a little zoom helps cover that. I'm not really good at this stuff. Suggestions welcome 😊
@@IanWaugh ahhh that makes Sense then! Adding another camera does help, but also take ‘s more time to setup, in my video’s I use three camera’s but takes so much more time. The trick or zoomin in and out, works but I think it’s a bit overdone in this video. But I see your point. Nevertheless I subbed! Keep up the great content! 🧡
@@Dolle_Man Thank you very muchh 👍 I am also hampered with poor vision (mentioned in several earlier videos) so time is against me for editing. What do you use for recording? I know many people use OBS but I can't seem to get this set up as I'd like. I guess I'll plod on and try not to need so many edits 😊
Its just the same knob layout as the small formfactor, with a bigger board, at least they could have given each operator/function a knob or a slider, a bit like on the twisted electrons mega fm, and with proper rugged outputs, you know the ones that are bolted to the chassis, like the dave smith synths have, to at least come close to justify the 2k+ euro price tag.
tbf the market has changed quite a bit in the last 10 years. back at the start of the last decade they were making affordable gear that was great. market leading in some respects with their affordable analog stuff. but now we have behringer completely dominating the low end part of the market, they probably don't want to compete with them, I don't think anyone wants to compete with them given their past history. they are probably in the transition phase of moving into being a more premium brand just haven't quite got it right yet ,they've made really great budget under the radar gear for so long now (which is part of the reason I have loved their stuff) that they probably didn't even imagine a time when there would be a new competitor on this scale on the block within their market they've done so well. and lets keep in mind they've had to try to adapt to this total market change pretty quick, look at how behringer has flooded the market in just a few years, I have literally lost count of the amount of budget synths they are selling it's literally crazy what they are doing with announcing so many and putting so many out there and how big their operation is. I don't think korg will make anything like the volca again for a very long time, it would be bad business sense for an independent company. sometimes other companies force another companies hand and it doesn't work out well for us consumers I guess that's the way things go. if they change into a premium brand I probably won't be buying that much of it, i'll be priced out but will continue to enjoy their legacy gear as if it wasn't for that stuff I probably wouldn't have this hobby. also,sidenote they were doing flight cases for cheaper synths too, the micro x came with a flight case and that was a real budget version of the triton engine.
Hi - Yes, you might be right about all that, although every other synth manufacturer, large and small, has had to content with B, too. The point about the SE models is that I (and just about every other pundit) cannot see how the price can be justifies. Sorry to pick up on 'premium' but whenever I hear that I think 'over-priced' 😊 Some synth manufacturers seem to get away with it but I think this plays into eletism and clever marketing 😊 We'll have to see how it goes and what develops.
@@IanWaugh I agree with yourself and the other commenters these were a bit of a bad decision, and I think you're right with a board that big it would make sense to put a lot more on there, they could do a lot more knob per function for starters. In terms of premium stuff we'll just have to wait and see I guess if their products justify the price in the future, hopefully they'll see the errors made here. Some premium stuff I can see the value in it even if it's not for me, if something is built well, high quality, but yes there are some companies which are basically dressed up and marketed as lifestyle products by placing more on the fashion element, unfortunately a trend which I hoped I wouldn't see in synths.
I have a bunch of korg stuff. Old and recent. I m also surprised with what they did and do. I hope they release a korg 800dv FS. I think they will… if the price drops i might buy the drumlogue too.
Korg plays its cards very close to its chest so no clues about what it might or might not release. Behringer's your best bet for that 😊 The Drumlogue is around £470 in the UK at the moment.
For that price a combined multitimbral “modwave-Opsix-wavestate” with their respective controls in one case would have been adequate. Anyway modwave and wavestate share the mostly the same sound libraries (compare each respective “voice name list”)
Addition my observation of the market: Synthesizers aimed at sound designers tend to have 49 keys at most Synths for performaning musicians have less controls and more keys and better keybeds. (There may be exceptions from this rule).
@@hermask815 Hadn't thought about it like that. Makes sense. Although if you have more than one keyboard then 3-4 octaves is often fine. As well as being easier to carry 😊
Or just make modules so people can use whatever keybed they choose. The SE versions are better than the OG placcy trash, but not much - and definitely not worth the asking price when compared to other far cheaper units. Modal's 8X versions are a glowing example of what can be done at a lower price point.
@@IanWaugh actually 8 of the 9 I bought used - they just happen to have cases. I have so much rubbish in my gair ridge that I can't even park my lorry in there to check under the bonnet or boot. cheers from "the states."
@@IanWaugh not really. all 3 are Nords and I got pretty good deals on them. the people who bought them new felt like they needed a case and definitely gigged with them (and yes, they parted with a lot of cash . actually, I don't have a studio per say - I'm more of a hobbyist/basement rock star. 😎
Hi - Well, as I said in the video, I love Korg gear and it's definitely been among my favourites over the years. I have far too many soft synths (from Arturia and Native Instruments to name but two developers) and many cover some Korg gear. I don't have any of Korg's software so can't comment from a hands-on perspective but the main reason I haven't bought into it is because I think it's over-priced. Obviously, many people don't, it's just my personal view. I've discussed it in a few videos including this one: ruclips.net/video/iW7omkEXqfE/видео.html
I began to produce music back in 2012, and I didn't have any idea of what I was doing at the time, what I did know is that Korg was a very wellknown company in the synth scene so I began to buy their products... Right now only 1% of my equipment is from Korg; Opsix and a Mini Kaoss Pad 2s (that I couldn't sell at the time). I learnt that there are other brands offering more for what one is paying for a Korg product, like; Elektron with their Digitone/Digitakt/Syntakt, ASM (Hydrasynth) and last but not least BEHRINGER wich Is right now my most beloved brand on the market... Deepmind 12, Neutron, Odyssey, Edge, Model D, Pro 1 and K2 (wich is a clone of MS20 with and WITHOUT the noisy "key-press"). Behringer is great and they are doing great when we talk about price and quality. Korg is selling their name, like Roland is... Plastic everywhere for at leats 500€£$? Yes but no, thanks.
Hi Daniel - Yes, there is a lot of competition out there and yes, there are many companies who rely on their name to sell and promote products. Behringer may be the saviour of synthesizers 😊 They made some poor PR decisions which haven't been forgotten but I'm quite happy with their products 👍
Our companies are fine and will continue to do fine. If you have some (as per usual) ignorant western axe to grind - and no doubt like most of your worthless side of the world, racism as well - just do us a favour and stay away. We've had quite the fill already of you and your illegal wars. Lets hope Russia send you back to the stoneage where you belong.
it does have more polyphony but that doesn't require a whole lot of horsepower. if they're trying to sell it as a performance synth, it should have been 76 keys, bigger screen, additional knobs and sliders, PCM engine. it should have been really beefed up in both hardware and software. the price is crazy for what you get. i just picked up a barely used, perfectly working OpSix for $400 including tax and shipping. and thats up from where it was a year or so ago when there was a blowout sale that i missed.
@@mack_soloWhy cute and quite the most expensive Montage? Kinda undermines your attempted point. MODX6 has the same 8-operator FM engine, a sample-based engine, with more polyphony, plus a color touchscreen, sliders/faders, knobs, audio input, Superknob, etc., and can be had for an even greater price, now that the MODX+ models are out. Your point is what?
Glad I decided a while ago to buy the software version of Wavestate. I do agree the retail price for these SE keyboards is unjustifiable. Speaking of Korg sales, I bought myself the Electribe-R VST for just under £100 (£50 off). Yes - wait for the sales. There will always be a sale (or a sale just around the corner)!
"Official" Korg sales are mostly for the US market though, and I'm not sure they're actually better than online marketshops' ordinary street prices either.
Thanks for the understandable comment on recent years Korg products. For now I'd rather buy a second hand Korg Karma and make it sound as fantastic as possible!
I agree the SE versions are a missed opportunity to have a great user interface. A big touch screen would have helped enormously. It's got to be said though, the principle of squeezing every last penny out of customers is not confined to Korg. The Oberheim OB8 costs over €5200 and the Moog Matriarch is over €2000. Both mahoosively overpriced IMO.
I agree with most of this video. But what bothers me is the "software synth" talk. Korg has taken the RaspberryPi's compute model and runs his own synthesis software on it. There is of course other hardware around it, such as DA converters, MIDI hardware, etc. And this is how almost all digital synthesizers have been built since the end of the 80s. All with a processor (e.g. Intel, Motorola, Hitachi, ...), DA converters, MIDI hardware and above all based on software. Except that nobody talks disparagingly about "software synths" when it comes to these synthesizers.
Hey Christoph - All synths have ancillary hardware. Most synths (not all) have dedicated hardware. They can be emulated in software but they are not intrinsically soft synths Main complaint is the price, though...
@@IanWaughIf your criticism is primarily that they took a cheap RaspberryPi CM, wrapped some hardware around it and ran their software on it and charged a high price for it, then I agree with you. And as for the other synthesizers. Even if there was no motivation when developing these synthesizers, they would later be released as soft synthesizers. However, they are all based on software. And with the three Korg models. The engine, the sequencer, etc. already exist, but a GUI still has to be developed to run on Windows, Mac or Linux. And the software also needs to be adapted/compiled for another OS/processor architecture.
@@IanWaugh Yes, it is more complex than using an existing hardware platform. But understandable if it provides the required computing power and, above all, an extensive development environment already exists for it. Then the synthesizer should be cheaper. Especially if these small, cheap OLED displays are also installed.
The wavestate/opsix/modwave all run on RaspberryPI compute modules (version 3 for the non SE version, don't know if they upgraded for the newer ones). And we recently found out that even Nautilus run on an industrial Asrock PC motherboard with a low cost Intel Atom CPU (retail price about $100). And I wouldn't bash Korg for this choices. It's not a bad idea to use of the shelf components to bring down manufacturing/design costs (and time to market). But then Korg decided to NOT pass these savings to the consumer. The Opsix / Wavestate SE prices are a joke. The original Opsix costs around 500€, please tell me that a larger case and a 61 keys premium keybed shoots this to over 2K. It doesn't. It's just Korg making *lots* of money from it. And don't get me started on the included flight case. What's even worse is the price of the Wavesteate MKii version (the new 37 key one). Thomann and most online retailers have this for around 900 €. The worst keybed ever, on a plasticky chassis with a RasPI inside - that they were selling originally for around 600 € - now for 900? Are we kidding ourselves here? I would really like to get the new wavestate (I had the older one and still have the VST) but at this price it's a joke. We'll of course wait and see what the actual street prices will be.
Hi - Thanks for the additional info. Yes, using off-the-shelf components has many advantages but, as you say, it would be nice if customers saw a little of the benefits. And, yes, the price of the Mk ii is beyond understanding...
To my understanding they just put OG Opsix motherboard in a new cases with keyboards (made in Japan). It seems like they just need to sell japanese stock cases with keybeds probably left in the warehouses (it is too obvious that this cases were meant for something different). (And yes it's not the first time Korg did something like that- just look at horrible Electribe 2 compared to Electribes with tubes and step sequencer... ) Thanks man! It's refreshing to hear real opinion after all than "independent" youtubers who praise everything big corporation do. Sub from me!
I love the look of the platinum but i can get fm synths on my phone on a raspberry pi, on a latptop. A laptop, controller and a copy of FM8 would come in for less money.
One of the advantages of hardware synths is the interface, and the Opsix actually has an amazing interface for not just FM but also additive with algorithm 32. And personally, I do all that it takes to avoid having to rely on computers and phones for live performance. I've tried playing with a MIDI controller and a DAW and it just doesn't feel good. Granted, in this case I am performing with the original Opsix. No way I can afford the SE at any point of the near future. And unless I become a massively successful musician going on tour, I don't think I'll need it. I understand much of the price of the SE comes from the build quality
Maybe Kodamo should release a keyboard version of the EssenceFM. Bigger screen and might be a better value than the Opsix. I do like the form factor of the SE's. They remind me a little of the old DSS sampler.
Great analysis Ian. I agree with your conclusions re Korg - I increasingly feel that they are both paradoxically a leader in innovation but also over-pricing (which they would probably describe as value-pricing) their products with the new Nautilus AT releases/upgrades as yet another example. I’m not sure if it’s a simple corporate profit goal and feel that maybe they are positioning themselves as an ‘Apple’ of electronic music with introductory, novel products leading to higher margin aspirational purchases. There’s nothing wrong with this approach (after all, it’s working well for Apple) but it doesn’t work if they sacrifice quality of products along the way. It’s true that people will pay more for things they perceive as high value and most consumers want to develop long-term relationships with brands that align with their own values (one thing Apple does better than most) but the cynic in me thinks that Korg aren’t embracing the entire Apple philosophy and the risk of chasing shorter-term profits will inevitably result in lower customer advocacy and retention (especially with so many new, innovative, and dare I say original vendors in the space ready to eat their lunch - and I haven’t even mentioned the obvious threat of Behringer…). Keep up the good work!
Hi Steven - Thank you. Yes, it seems like Korg is totally ignoring what's out there both in terms of price and technology. Someone said that all synths will now have to at least consider the Osmose and, as you say, there is much technological development going on elsewhere. Korg seems to be living in a vacuum.
I have a Korg Wavestate MK1, and I see no reason to upgrade, I have a Kontakt S61 as my controller. Even if I had the cash, would probably get something different. Happy with my Wavestate.
Korg is strange. Some things like the Prologue and Minilogue Xd are a great value, but other things like what you mention are overpriced. Weird that they think they can charge $1800 for a full size Odyssey when the Behringer version is $600.
@@IanWaugh IMHO The future will be when a 'extrudable' film is placed on the surface of the iPad that changes shape based on what is touched by the fingers. The knobs and sliders will 'take shape' between the user's fingers simulating physicality. At this point, we will have the best of both worlds. Greetings, brother.
@@IanWaugh friend, personally, I don't believe that using those bulky glasses can be the solution, even if Apple intends to replace them with the same iPhone: we would all look like crazy divers. Instead, having something tactile to manipulate for our musical purposes would be ideal, but perhaps we're just a small niche admiring the capabilities of the iPad and its potential in this regard. No one in the world has yet hypothesized this three-dimensional and 'physical' possibility."
@@PeterPrism We're probably talking about cornea and brain implants or physical holograms. Not sure how practical that might be but fascinating to consider.
@@IanWaugh Ya but I think the opsix is just like the mod7 on the kronos able to load .syx from the DX7. So even the Kronos would only have 7 notes poly if you load 8 channels up with those big Epiano TX patches
@@mrdali67 Not familiar with the Kronos. No idea if the Op-Six can load DX patches but the Op has far more algos and can use other waveforms. Not sure about the polyphony. The original has 32 which would be enough for me, while the SE has 80.
I already own original Wavestate. I want Opsix but the SE prices are ridiculous. I don't understand why Korg released an updated same size Wavestate & the bigger SE but with Opsix they're only releasing the SE, no MK 2 same size version like Wavestate got. I think I'll just buy Opsix Native for 1/10 the price of SE and use a good controller. 😅
Crazy prices ! Rather go for a Nautilus but now with the ones with aftertouch, the prices is also overpriced for just aftertouch. I'm working in a studio and couldn't care less about the case.
What you mentioned about the misuse of front panel space on the Opsix brings an unrelated topic to the forefront of my mind. Something which I might have mentioned in previous comment has to do with certain instruments I’ve always admired from the 80s. They include the Rhodes Chroma, the PPG Wave 2, the Sequential Prophet T8 and a few non-synth keyboards that were being played like the Rhodes, Wurlitzer andYamaha CP pianos, as well as Roland’s first digital piano, the RD-1000. Only instruments have only one physical attribute in common; they all have a chassis with a stackable surface behind the front panel. Yamaha was still building digital pianos with that feature during the 2000s, but I think it’s been a while since anyone tried doing that. It’s a drag a poor musician like me won’t be able to convince somebody like the Korg research and development people to consider bringing that back. In recent years, the only cork model that has actually fascinated me at all is Kronos. Fascinates me for the same reason I was fascinated by the Open Labs NeKo, having everything that a musician would want compressed into one instrument that was also equipped with recording technology. How big of a splash did that monster make on the market?
Hi Eric - Not thought much about stackability although I guess it could be important to the smaller gigging musician. Never really followed workstation-type keyboards although I guess the SY77 was one. I sorta like having separate devices for different functions - easier to swap and change and doesn't make my brain hurt so much 😊
So YOU sir, are the guy to watch on synths and keyboards! You actually delve into the internal hardware and prices! I am always commenting on synths from KORG that have PC or pi systems and Linux OS in them and of course the AKAI MPC series instruments which use a more obscure but not so rare single board computer with LINUX installed as well lol. In the end I am revisiting my list of synth wish list/purchase list cause I do not want to pay $650USD for a used OPSIX or any of those synths again.. not worth it when I can buy the software and build a premium controller/PC setup with a 22" touch screen instead.. duh.. Thankyou for your informative and surprising detailed video on this. Yes the keys of the SE series is PANASONIC/MATSUSHITA ELECTRIC/TECHNICS keybed used in keyboards of the 1980s... 1980s folks..
Hi - Thank you, but I think you know more about these than me or most other folks. Interesting comment about the keyboard... If you can make your own synths, that's amazing. I can see why over-priced off-the-shelf models have little appeal. More power to you 👍
blimey that's absolutely mad concerning the pi based synth. Not sure I could ever be lured into buying a raspberry pi based synth for this price. I mean from my position my SY77 and XP50 felt like you were getting the money worth with the dedicated hardware. Has anyone opened one of these machines up yet? lol I'm guessing it's not entirely just a raspberry pi sitting there on it's own but still this isn't an approach I like to see them take? I think everything turns into that more corporate lead approach especially these days. It tends not to work though if it's this obvious they are cutting costs. Great job on highlighting this
Raspberry Pi has been running industrial market for years, and even though these are "off the shelf" products, they are not on the consumer stores shelves. The CPU module is a CM3+ and it powers two main boards in the Korg's synth trio (opsix/mod/wavestate). People got sarcastic about the Raspberry Pi usage after Korg's failed initial firmware releases - it's not Raspberry's fault someone didn't do their quality control before marketing the instruments. You could run all the Apollo moon rockets simultenously on just one of those. Raspberry Pi is fine.
Hi - thanks Adro. I haven't opened mine but I guess some have. There'll be other stuff in there like A/D converters but probably not anny dedicated chips or gubbins like the SY77. They are soft synths 😊
They're mostly empty space filled with plastic moldings. you can just chop the entire keybed and most of the case off without harming the function at all. The SY range were proper things. No space left unfilled and secured with what seems like a million screws.
@@IanWaugh Yeah, I've seen a kit for them. I think I'll end up taking them out of the housings and making them into a pseudo rack-mount type of thing with a single housing for all 3. Everything in my setup is always controlled by a Yamaha QY700 and/or a Hapax, so having keys on most things (other than my midi controller and an SY85) is just a waste of space.
How many people these days post to guys like you and say "thank you for your voice of reason from the wilderness" The new Yamaha MODX+7 is $1,600 and the amount of functionality and quality compared to these new Korg's is not even comparable. I'm getting one next spring when my guess it will be $1,499. Thanks again Ian.
@@SWATTECHNOLOGIES They'll probably drop in special offers, but it depends on sales numbers. They seem popular enough to hold most of the price for now. I'd guess a $300 drop at some point but I wouldn't hold my breath. The + does have some tempting additions.
@@Gainn that's what I thought thank you. I'm getting $700 for sale of my Roland FA so $1,000 for MODX+7 is good also considering I'll keep it for years to come
I think the FS / SE synths are probably just meant to promote the brand, giving it an air of quality and respectability that it wouldn't have otherwise, but the big money is probably in the Volcas and the sub £500 synths. What bothers me is that they've stopped releasing the sysex specification for their synths, so even a simple thing like dumping patches and loading in new ones is tied to their proprietary software, which is tied to operating systems that might not be around in ten or more years. I have the Minilogue XD, and that has sysex details published, so I can do patch management with any decent sysex librarian. The ones you've shown here don't have a published sysex spec, which limits their lifespan - Korg will stop supporting them in a few years, then a a few years later, Windows or Mac OS won't support the librarian software any more. It's stopped me buying them, personally. If you want an MS20, get the Mini. That is reasonably good value for money, and if you really can't get on with "slim" keys, just use it on top of a full sized keyboard - like the Opsix SE :)
Hi - I've no idea what Korg's thinking is behind this so you could be right. I'm a trusting soul. I only have the Wavestate and use K's librian. But very bad news not to publish Sys Ex. Maybe to prevent others producing editors...? I didn't like the size of the MS-20 Mini panel. If I was to go down that route I'd probably get Mr B's K2 but I really like the look and layout of the full size one.
Korg has been riding high off of previous successes but have not kept pace with the rest of the market over the last decade. They are following the same trajectory as Intel.
On one hand this its like Korg finally has gotten the message that people dont want Synth's with general cheap plastic chassis and poor keybeds wether it's mini keys or normal sized that feels like the old Italian Bontempi kids keyboards. On the other hand the pricing is totally off when you think off that wether you use a cheap Pi Compute board for the hardware version or a normal PC/Mac mac it's still just software. For freaking sake .. scuse my french 😆Make a good Quality MPE Keyboard controller with poly aftertouch that has a Decent Display and enough assignable buttons, faders and knobs to general cover most used functions and just sell the whole software package with all available new and old Korg Synth VST's. You could have either a version that takes a set ammount of compute boards or just use a PC/laptop tugged away I don't care wether I have to add a compute board to the keyboard for each synth or just run it on a PC or laptop tugged away. I'm not sure if these synths run completely on the Pi or if there is added DSP chips. But anyway the original versions of these Synths is irelevant cause of the poor quality keybeds, and the SE models is too expensive and today people have no use of all those keybeds. Might as well make them as in the old days in a rack version. With hardware today you could fit at least 5 Synth's in a 1U rack if they all just use a pi compute board. If Korg used the time on porting the XG-2, EP-1, CX-3, HD-1, STR-1 and AL1 they could have a Software Kronos 3 system that is totally agnostic to whatever hardware it runs on. The more processing power the more Polyphonics. I'm still very fond of my Kronos 2 and a long time Korg user all the way back to the DW8000, and the Kronos is still the most powerfull Workstation out there. Nothing comes even close to it beside specific Professional Sample libraries and some VST Synth's. No ordinary standalone keyboard can match it, but at some point these will start to fail so It would be nice to see what Korg want to bring to their longterm users instead of just catering for the EDM community. Really many Proffessional session keyboardist still rely on their Kronos.
Hey - Thanks for your thoughts 👍 Bring back the racks😊 Great space savers but I do like hands-on controls. There's lots of possibilities, but I doubt we'll see any. Someone suggested that the Osmose is the new standard that all synth manufacturers will have to achieve. Interesting...
@@IanWaugh I was thinking that if Korg would make a good controller, It would make the synths cheaper if people don't really like the keybeds anyway. I could come up with a knob layout for a controller that could cover both the Opsix, Modwave and Wavestate 😁 and propably a lot of the synth's in Korg's software suite
I will not buy the SE version of those synths. I have a Wavetstate, Opsix, and Modwave. I will buy a Hydrasynth deluxe so I can take advantage of poly aftertouch of my synths, with the Hydrasynth,…. 😁😁😁
You can be 110% sure that since all these 3 synths sounds exactly like their software version. the software might actually be better dependent on your Audio interface's D/A and analog components
@@IanWaugh I will check that out 😊 in my Logic there shouldn’t be much difference since these synths is all software. It’s another matter to compare a standard synth patch from a hardware DX7 and a software emulation. The MOD7 of the Kronos eg. Does’t sound like a DX7. Even the mkII DX7 is brighter and cleaner than the old 12bit DAC of the original, the Kronos sound a little mushy compared to the TX802 wich have the newer 16bit DAC too.
Indeed. Korg's software emulations of its own hardware are very good. I have the original Legacy series (including M1 and Wavestation), which I guess is "vintage" itself by now. I intend to keep it going. My only real complaint is that the original Legacy version of the MS-20 doesn't let you see the entire instrument at a glance when editing; you have to scroll back and forth between the patch bay and the rest of it. They've remedied this in more recent versions. I think they designed it that way to drive demand for the eventual reissue of the real MS-20, which hadn't happened yet. They didn't put out a software emulation that gives you a good view of the whole instrument when editing until after the new hardware version had been out for a good long while. But the old software MS-20 still sounds great and offers all the polyphony your computer can handle. There's also polyphonic unison, with the ability to specify the number of regular voices in each unison voice.
@@anonymoushuman8344 Yes, I think the software is generally excellent. I made a prediction at the beginning of the year that more companies would move from hard to soft. I really fell out of love with the MS-20 with Korg's re-issue price and have been using Arturia's version which can do so much more. But is far less twiddleable 😊
I personally complete disagree with the comments about the reissues that Korg have done. In recent years, I bought 3x MS-20 FS, MS20-M, 2x MiniKorg 700FS, 2600M, Odyssey FS and just now the 2600 FS. Well I can tell you: I don't regret any of it. You say the 2600 FS is expensive? 4000 euros is a steal in comparison to the prices (10K++) these were going for. And the sound, to me, is nowhere comparable to the Behringer clones, let alone for the organic sound, detail of manufacturing and reverb. These things are not made in China like some cheap car. Maybe you have another problem and that is for every individual different... Compared to the prices back in the day these are prices are right in my opinion. I can't judge about the Op Six, it doesn't interest me (still have the classic Wavestation however).
Hi Dave - Wow! That's a lot of gear. You are obviously Korg's ideal customer 😊 Many people compare current gear prices with 2nd-hand prices. I think this is erroneous because they are different markets. Likewise , it's not easy to do a comparison with original prices as the tech has often got cheaper and inflation is not a good metric for cost (ruclips.net/video/6RVBYHy_DgE/видео.html) No doubt some Korg gear looks better (as I said in the video) but Behringer's gear is quite smart and robust. As for the sound, that's up to the individual but there's usually a lot less in it than some folks think, especially when it hits the mix. You've got some great gear - enjoy 👍
There's one point I would disagree: No artists would gig with the Arp2600? Well Stevie Wonder, Edgar Winter and many others sure disagreed for the original and so why not. It's part of the show even. And the same indeed is thinkable for the Opsix or especially the wavestate. I'd found it interesting if they used that package and put all 3 synths in one, modwave, opsix and Wavestate. That for the price seemded okish then. Well and then pack the Nautilus engines, Sequencer, Audio and the Big Screen in and there goes the Kronos successor.
The Opsix's Raspberry PI can be easily brought to its knees when using the modulation matrix and user algorithms. At the original MSRP it was a rip-off for anyone who doing any deep programing, at the blowout prices it was just a disappointment that could be worked around. Korg's use of the Raspberry PI is all the proof I need to determine that Korg has lost the plot.
Hi - Haven't heard that before. I guess you can marmalise any computer system. Would have thought critical systems like this would have safeguards to prevent it happening. Anyway... Yes, disappointing
i am a old time fan of Korg, and i bought Wavestate and Opsix. I like so much them expecially for their format/size. i wish Korg could produce a Karma and a M1 in the same size of those 37 keys. But, unbelivable, come out the SE. to do WHAT? more than 2000€ for what? do they know we can buy a good controller and control 2 Wavestate for less than 1000€??? and i will not have simply "more poliphony". i will have DOUBLE LAYERS! those SE are the most silly things KORG has done in history..
Never pay full price for software, unless, you know the product is developed by a tiny company or single developer and you actually care to support their future, ability to keep the lights on, and ability to continue to make software updates and not then ask you to buy into a subscription scheme. As for the Korg keyboards, it's a bit of a let down really - whilst a price increase is understandable for the nicer keybed, just re-boxing the same PCB/UX layout is unfortunate - lets hope there could be some updates in that regard at a later point in time.
Hi - Thanks for checking this out. Whole 'nother video on the software issue. Food for thought. I guess Korg could add another Rapberry Pi 😊 but updates are only going to be of the software variety.
@@IanWaugh My feeling on the SE keyboards is even if the display and knobs count remained the same, a control panel layout change would have been immensely helpful - e.g. reposition the vector stick to just above the pitch/wheel area, and spread the knobs sections across the keyboard area. I expect the compute module used in the SE versions is slightly more powerful now - that's a drop in replacement (there were no doubt supply issues before), so the polyphony count can go up, but really the underlying compute architecture is less important than the UX/layout on a hardware synth of this size. These synths sound excellent and deserve a nicer control layout - and it could probably have been done without software changes, but would require more PCBs/cabling. You know, as I am an independent plugin developer, I wish there was an option for customers to pay extra if they wanted to help me out :) maybe I need to set up a 'buy me a coffee' link on my product pages. As mentioned before, there is a huge range in what plugin devs/companies are earning - from minus X$ (taking into account time costs) upwards.
@@wavesequencer Hi - Yes, you're absolutely right about the SE and the controls.A missed - or ignored! - opportunity. I certainly think it's important to support small developers for innovation, variety and to stave off a monopoly. I'd guess some, probably larger devs, are making a fortune from software. It's not always easy being small. Good luck and keep going 😊👍
After much careful listening, the SE models just SOUND way better. Seems like it would be hard to tell over crummy video audio but wonder if they might be using better DA converters than the plastic keyboard versions. In Korg’s defense, their ARP and ms-20 filters are the real deal and sound like butter. The same beringher versions are an absolute train wreck. You get what you pay for.
Hi Dan - if only that was true... 😊 Korg may have upped the converters but I haven't read anything to that effect. Dan Warrel suggests that YT audio is actually pretty accurate. Korg and Behringer have probably used different components so there are likely to be differences but I haven't heard anything that suggests B is worse than K. However, if that's what your ears tell you, go for it 😊
At present as of May 2024, you can buy a New Korg Nautilus 61 key (Not the new AT version) for the bargain price of £1500! Which we all know comes with 9 engines inc the FM engine & the Wavestation engine derived from the fantastic Kronos, so why would you buy one of the 2 Opsix SE or the Wavestate SE? When you can get All 9 engines for the price of 1?!
Hi Andy - Yes indeed. Also, as of now, the SE is down to £1299 which is £99 more than most pundits think it's worth. Really stupid launch price but I think in recent times Korg has been overestimating the value and worth of its releases. Just my opinion 😊
Hi Kevin - That would be a thing :-) They've ipped the price of the Wavestate Mk ii to around £700. The Mk ii and the SE prices might meet in the middle... :-)
Is the synth engine/"sound space" of this synth highly desirable to a number of people? Is the 80 note polyphony highly desirable to a number of people? Is the metal case and high quality keybed with AT highly desirable to a number of people? To get those there are NO other options which is part of the product development and marketing genius of Korg. MODX+ has a terrible interface, is plastic, and has no aftertouch - it is the only other possible choice. Could Korg have made this bi-timbral with dedicated outs/layer for the same price? Without a doubt, but why would they do that when such upgrades are on an incremental schedule? They have made the initial investment it this RPi platform and will now ride it with upgrades like that for MANY years to come. Does that mean this is not worth $2k? I think for many it is worth it and they will feel they have gotten good value at the price. I am not one of them - once Korg ships the inevitable Mk2 version in good quantity I will pick up a Mk1 for $300 used.
Hi - Well, the whole synth is desireable, but not at the price. Potential users have to balance that for themselves. The synths are unique but so are many other synths, each with their own strenghs. Korg isn't reknowned for updates and there's a saying in the synth world - don't buy a synth based on what updates MIGHT happen I'm waiting to see the market flooded with 2nd-hand Op-Sixes as owners ruch to buy the Se. Still waiting... 😊
I was bitterly disappointed when I found out the Wavestate SE price. I loved the Wavestate, but don't like the 37 key vibe, and wanted aftertouch. Then to add insult to injury, they release the software for a fraction of the hardware price. These current products are not essentially Japanese, so we know we are being grifted by the USA design team.
Ah. I don't know where they come from but I reckon it;s the marketeers and bean counters setting the silly prices. You've probably seen they've announced module versions so one of those plus a keyboard could be the answer but I don't yet know if these have equally stupid prices...
@@IanWaugh RANDY JUDAH TORREZ ❤️ < Right if KORG had a work station slash Synthesizer like ROLAND FANTOM we wouldn't be having this discussion Seems to me the buck stopped with KORG PRO and STUDIO no more innovation ROLAND is always Advancing 🔥 but man I absolutely love KORG KORG was my first real professional keyboard the KORG DS-8 61 keys
Yes, you're right. If you can handle the keyboard, the Op-Six currently seems to be a good buy. You could always use it with another keyboard. There's also the soft version but you lose the hands-on controls.
you're not wrong korg and roland aren't who they used to be at least yamaha keeps their goofiness to a minimum the SE is SExy but yeah, getting it for cheaper is the best way to go
Oh my, it's a rasberry PI in these synths... I thought there was a lot of high quality audio components inside, not a hobbyist dev board. Then they should be priced far far lower especially as its the physical controls that cost the most in a product and the controls (apart from the keyboard) is the same as in the small variants. There could be some costs for developing the software but as its already made for the small versions that cost is very small. I agree its vastly overpriced, but maybe they will lower this after the first hype has died down. But i dont own one of these so it might be a very good instrument and worth a bit more than other similar instruments.
Yes. It - and it's compatriots - are soft synths with dedicated controls. Alas, they keep pushing up the price and have done so again with the release of modular versions. Great sounds and great synths but definately not worth the asking price... 😱
Ok, the DX7 in 1983 was an unruly thing due to its small screen and its poor distribution of functions for menu diving, but 40 years have passed, sir! Now there are things that work as a library editor, and are free, such as Dexed Vst that also allows you to use Dx7 sounds in the form of a vsti plugin and standalone program without the need for a connected keyboard. Really any old Dx7 is a blast in 2023 if you combine it with DEXED. Ok now we go to the price of OPsix SE which is 2499 euros for Europe with 61 keys (they are not Fatar T9). It still has the same digitakt-inspired screen, with those non-metal rotary buttons that are very soft and wobbly plastic. It's not a 24-bit synthesizer like an access virus that can cost the same money of 2499 euros, but it has 16 independent parts and it's like buying 16 monotrimbral access viruses, it's really justified. This is where Korg made a big mistake, he didn't give any extra reason for people to buy this thing for 2499 euros. It is the worst offer in 20 years, perhaps because from the first day they presented the prototype they made the worst decision to make the product as cheap as possible, where the 37-key Opsix mk1 came out in an approach more for homestudio, for young boys who want Have something interesting in your study. But the thing went off the road with this update that does not justify it in the price. a simple update for 120 voices of polyphony and a cooler casing that is not high-end surgical aluminum either, nor is it designed by the great Alex Hartmann, who has been the best architect for musical instruments of the moment for a few decades. It does not have a more generous screen and the keyboard with 61 keys looks wasted with that empty space, it reminds me a lot of the Juno 106 where the panel was in the middle in a strange way, while the Juno 60 had a better distribution of controls on the panel for 61 keys. things that are powerful and interesting than the OPsix below its price in 2023: AKAI Professional MPC Key 61(sampler with subtractive synths and FM) Yamaha MODX6+(FM AWM Synthesizer) Korg Nautilus (workstation with VPM/FM synthesis) Korg Nautilus 61 AT (Enhanced VPM/FM) Acess virus Ti2 keyboard (FM synthesis + 20 special animated Synthmorph) Roland Fantom 07/06/08 (zen-core, zenology, integra7, substractive FM) Waldorf Blofeld keyboard (subtractive FM with wavetables, 2 stereo comb filters and samples instead of algorithms, 16 multi parts, 25 voices) Waldorf Iridium desktop (grain synthesis, subtractive, basic FM, wavetables, comb filters) Waldorf M 16Voice (wavetables, subtractive, basic FM) Waldorf Kyra (4350 oscillators to use basic FM multi parts) Studiologic Sledge 2 Black Edition (it's a blofeld with full controls) MASCHINE Plus (with Absynth, Reaktor, Massive and FM-8) Kurzweil PC4-7 (16-part workstation with VASP and FM 256-note polyphony) ASM Hydrasynth (FM with Mutator oscillator, wavetables...) Modal Argon 8 (wavetables, Va, substractive FM) Elektron digitone keys( new generation FM synth) Korg volca FM2 (FM with 6 operators, 32 algoritms, 6 voices polyphony) In order not to expand the list further, I stop here because anything for that price makes more sense and I think that with all these we are already clear that OPsix SE is not as good as it may seem for its price, over time we could see it on the lists famous commercial failures. Greetings and thanks for the video.
Wow! You certainly know your synthesizers 👍 Thank you for your list and comments. I'm sure some people will buy it but I think out of all the comments here onlu 1 suggests it's reasonably priced. We'll have to wait to see what happens when it really hits the market but Korg has already disappointed a lot of fans.
@@IanWaugh Yes, sometimes even money is not the problem, but the little technological benefit that a change receives. IMO this approach to Korg products is a disaster, they even have their plugin versions, so they shot themselves in the foot, it won't do any good to play the victim when they say they don't sell anything, because people decide what to do with their money, to go to things from roland or yamaha, behringer analogues. Someone at Korg is not doing things right, that's the only thing I can say, when I see all those machines with much more synthesizing power and interesting sound to create songs, I see the mistake clearly. greatings 👍
@@inperfectsequence7840 Yes. I think some synth companies are being run by bean counters and marketeers who have no real connection to the music business.
Everybody complains about the price of the SEs. Firstly I believe Korg knows what their doing, otherwise they wouldn‘t be on the market for such a long time. A good keybed is expensive as such. And Korg has the fucking right to make their investment pay out. Thats capitalism and we all profit from it. Secondly the SEs will be cheaper one year from now. So come down, boys. And thirdly can‘t stand that whinging about prices anymore. I can‘t afford a Neve desk, because my abilitys in recording won’t pay me one. But I won‘t complain about Neve prices. And fourthly, maybe the SE has the correct price and the small ones maybe were the bargains……? I want them both, rather later then sooner…
Hi - Thanks for your Comment. Interesting take on the sutuation. Maybe everyone complains about the price because everyone thinks it's extortionate. Everyone doesn't complain about the price of other synths 😊 Yes, Korg can charge what they like as I saidd in the video, It's capitalism but not everyone benefits from it 😢 The price will likely drop once the initial adopters have bought one 😊 but probably not by a massive amount.
I mean, you can buy the small op six and a nice keyboard controller with aftertouch for way, way less. The price is reaching heavily given the original op six’s slow sales.
Love Korg. But those prices for a re-boxed synth. No thanks. Make a new and better minalouge pro. As well that’s why Behringer is making the sales. The shop down the road had the ms-20fs. They never sold a one.
I agree they're seriously overpriced. I think they'll not sell very many until the price drops to nearer £1000 (realistically £1200 or so). I remember talking about this to Korg at Synthfest last year, asking what had happened to the Wavestate SE since it was first teased a couple of years before. I said I'd be willing to pay a grand for such an instrument, and still think that's about right.
Hi Andy - Yes, a few people have suggested £1000-1200 as a reasonable price that would shift them off the shelves. We'll have to see if Korg takes any of this on board although past experience suggests it's unlikely...
They should lower the three-octaves version's price too though, were Korg to discount the SE (which is far from unlikely, it happened with the KingKorg too, for example): a £1200 SE would call for a £600 Wavestate (which was the first iteration's - reasonable - price, by the way). Still, the SE really needs a bigger screen, price aside.
@@HaroldMaude Yes, the Behringer 2600 doesn't look as good but it's well made and 1/3rd of the price 😊It would be awesome if we always got what we pay for but, alas, that's always the case...
What made everyone cry is that they made and sold the cheap version. I have and am going to get the silver version. It’s going down in synth history as one of the greatest
@@IanWaugh deepest , dopest, insanest magical synth. I'm going to make a few vids on my exploration, and I think 99 percent of the people that have had or tried the original, just don't get what it's about. You have to work to get the magic, and most people are lazy . And the biggest secret is the sequencer. that thing takes this to inter dimensional places.
@@InFamousProductions It's the same as the original with an aluminium case and a decent keyboard. But have fun and enjoy. It's great to see such enthusiasm. I look forward to your vids 👍
Wir leben in einer Rezession- was bitte ist denn in den letzen 2-3 Jahren preisstabil geblieben ? Korg muss genauso die Preise erhöhen , man kann doch nicht Preise aus den letzten Jahren mit aktuellen vergleichen - hier in Deutschland hat sich so mancher Preis verdoppelt - und der Brexit wird nicht verhindert haben, dass die Preise in England gestiegen sind. Ich rede nicht von der normalen Preissteigerung wegen der der landes-/ währungsüblichen Inflationsrate
Hahahaha, exactly the same control panel maybe with an uprated soc computer. That might add an extra £20 😂😂😂. Least when someone like IK Multimedia does this the big model is still cheap as chips. I’m starting to mellow to Behringer more and more 😁. And curses to tiny screens 👍.
@@IanWaugh😂😂😂😂😂 I’ve fell in love with the Cat and Solina. Luckily i found a decent solina vst on iOS for £4 😂. No luck on the hunt for an iOS Cat, I maybe my first Behringer purchase will happen later in the year. As for Korg, they’ve recently just almost doubled the prices for their iOS products, so it’s across the board for them.
Too much copycat cynicism in the comments here. Received reactions, a bit of herd instinct? I wonder what the reaction would have been if Korg had just brought out the 61 key "SE" versions in the first place. I think some of the negativity here is from guys that just buy each new box of tricks that comes on the market... and these SE versions don't give these GAS buyers the fix they crave? Yes, they're very similar in some ways, but they're far superior in terms of quality and finish - and the keyboard is a class above the clattery originals.
Hi Peter - I can't speak for any of the commenters but essentially these are VSTs with a dedicated interface and it's easy to see how the stupid launch price highlighted that 🤔 I'm sure the SEs are great and it's good to know you rate them so highly 👍
They were lazy and it's stoopidly expensive. What advantage does it really offer over the 37 models? Noubt! Come on Korg, you are great innovators........come on!
The issue with Korg is in case of the Wavestate, they showed and sold the 37 key 1st, then released the software edition for almost 1/5th the price.
Now given there is nothing special about the hardware, if anything you need the software to make patches and sequencing as the 2 inch LCD is almost impossible to do so.
In doing so, you can do without the hardware altogether and just use your own better master keyboard.
Now the SE is 4 times the asking of the 37 key, using the same exact design the 37 keys has, only difference is the SE keybed, AT and more voice count.
So not to confuse things, Korg currently has the WS Native for $99 US, the SE is 2K from Korg direct.
Are they out of their minds?
The stand alone software is 1/20 of the SE and they do they exact SAME thing, only the software allows you better control of what you need to do as you don't have a 2 inch LCD screen to work with.
Korg went from the best value in my country to the worst value in 1 simple release.
Hi - Yes, disappointing and difficult to understand. I do like the hands-on nature of the controls but agree that menu-diving is an absolute pain and the software is better for programming 👍
People were asking for modules of the new Korgs.
Korg responds with bigger ones.
Very expected.
🤣 I have to say I like twiddling the controls - it seems none of us were happy 😊
AND modules...
I appreciated your honest reviews of the synths. I believe the 37-key versions of synths are intended to be used as sound modules, with the keys primarily designed to aid in programming rather than for live performances. There are many other excellent synths available that can rival the 61-key version of Korg synths.
Hi - Thank you. The original synths are plasticy and maybe not ideal for live use but if they were solely intended as sound modules they should not have included any keyboard. A few people have remarked that they would prefer a desktop version without keys to save space. Given the poor quality of the keys, that makes a lot of sense. Although I guess you can always buy the soft versions...😊
Great commentary. You forgot to mention the MiniKorg 700FS. It also supports your premise with its $2000 selling price (& flight case).
Hi Gregory - Thank you. I thought the video was long enough. I could have gone on... 😊
I thought the 700FS lacked a bit of lustre as a synth to regurgitate. And, yes, I couldn't believe the price. No idea how well it's selling but you don't hear much about it now...
Let us all be grateful that Korg is still in business!
Hi Lance - yes, there's that... 😄
Would you mind sharing, what is your little mini multi-tier-stand in the back corner? (I need something just like that 😳)
Eye opening rant 👍
Sure! It's really neat: ruclips.net/video/dn9HvkZ1ieo/видео.html
You stated Korg announced/teased an Opsix SE, but it was a Wavestate SE that that was announced initially. You always called the Wavestate SE a wavetable synth, which it is not (the Modwave is a wavetable synth), but instead a wave sequencing synth, like the old Wavestations. I’m not trolling, just throwing in these friendly corrections.
I agree that the pricing for the SE models is ridiculous, and the design choices. The extra polyphony in the new Wavestate models is actually beneficial, in that those patches are often composed of layering other patches, but the lack not being multitimbral, the Modsix and Wavestate, the extra polyphony in the Modsix is far less beneficial. I’m not sure how they would have implemented the physical GUI/interface, but a synth combining all three synth engines would have been cool, that keybed and SE dimensions, but with a nicer, color screen, more controls, overall, and the Wavestate, Modsix, and Modwave all in a single keyboard, a la the latest Roland Fantom workstations or the Jupiter-X/xm, for example, with their multiple engines and emulations.
And Korg should either improve/upgrade the quality of the keybed in the non-SE versions or discontinue them. And then offer them in module/desktop versions, instead. Or offer both options, if the choice were to offer the non-SE versions with better keybeds. A Wavestate MkII in the Modal Cabalt8 form factor, with Fatar keybed, and that nicer joystick, and a larger screen, even if not color, but able to display the lanes in more detail, and parameters, would be WAY nicer, instead of feeling cheap. The customer shouldn’t have to choose between a cheap feel with a trashy keybed and an overpriced “upgrade”. Give us a Fatar keybed, or comparable, a better screen, a solid, premium feel, and a fair price, even if significantly higher than the current MkII pricing. And if they’re keen on dedicated, 1st-party hate cases, start offering them for most all of their keyboards, modules, etc., or not at all. I’d love to have a flight/hard case for my Minilogue xd made/branded by Korg.
Korg Miniloguebass is a stupid cash grab. And the 73-key version of the Nautilus WITHOUT aftertouch, as the 6-octave version of their flagship synthesizer, is also idiotic. Yamaha Montage had aftertouch, as will it’s replacement. Any flagship synth these days without aftertouch is a fail, imo. The Product Development and Marketing teams at Korg need a shaking up, I think.
Trolling? Perish the thought :-) I actually refeer to the Wavestate as a wavesequencer near the beginning although I later call the SE version a Wavetable rather than the Wavestate - a slip of the wavey tongue, alas. Your SE history is probably better than mine and the Wavestate may have been the first tease but I confess I only recall the Op-six SE announcement and it seemed to be the one most folks were interested in.
There are so many things Korg could (and maybe should) have done with the SEs. We'll have to wait to see what customer reactions are and how many - ore few - they but.
Korg has improved the FM sounddesign user interface. These synthesizers are the new DX7. They will become a cult classic. They are incredible synthesizers. Thank you Korg.
HI Frans - Yes, it only took someone 40 years to come up with a usable FM interface 😄The Op-Six is a radical improvement although the SE versions are still vastly over-priced...
I humbly disagree. @@IanWaugh
@@FransvandenBergeMuziekschuur No need to be humble about it 😊 There's room in our little community for all opinions and that's what makes for interesting discussions 👍
The price of a new Yamaha DX7 wasn't exactly cheap for a tupperware basket and some chips. @@IanWaugh
@@IanWaugh For all the young people reading this. A Korg Op six SE (that has a case included) and a behringer Poly D keyboard with a case added will make that you can do 90% of all gigs with a band where songwriting is the basis. You will be able to create sounds not heard before. That aren't crasy, but musical and defined and serving for the vocals. You may crave Buchla or a Moog one... but these two keyboards will get the job done. A Buchla or Moog one will be very much a distraction. The original DX7 was as much a synthesizer as a great preset keyboard. The Op six SE is portable, great presets and much easier to evolve on preset sounds so you can call a song sonically your own.
On the positive side, there's plenty of space on front the panel for one or more MIDI control surfaces or another synthesizer. And it does seem to be a quality Instrument. I hope Korg can release a version with polyphonic aftertouch. The aftertouch was probably poly in the original design, since the engine does respond to it.
Yes, you could put a controller on the top but a bit tight for many synths. If they had put the panel on one side like the Hydra... And yes, polyaftertouch might have gone some way to justifying the price. A bit 😊
So many good points, Ian! Lots to think about here. Thanks for the mention, also! :)
Cheers, Matt 😊 Interesting times 😎
Just as a point of reference the original Yamaha DX-7, lauded for its affordability and value when it came out in 1983 cost the equivalent in today's money of about $6,200. Many players back then owned several.
Hi - Are you adjusting for inflation? I don't think it's a good metric for price/cost comparison for a few reasons: the cost of technology has fallen dramatically and 'expense' need to be related to disposable income. ruclips.net/video/6RVBYHy_DgE/видео.html
Another point of reference would be the fact that there was only one version of the DX-7.
@@ForecastGrim - Not true at all. There was the TX-7 desktop module and theTF rackmount modules. Then you had the DX-5 which was two DX-7's and a one-octave longer keybed. The DX engine also ended up in various EX series organs.
@@ForecastGrim There can only be one 😄 (movie reference)
Agree with the video, the price is crazy. You can buy a Roland A88 Mk2 or say an SL61/88 controller + WaveState/Opsix and it would still be cheaper! If I want a flight case I'll buy a proper aluminium one. I think its lazy design to just shove it in a bigger chassis and not make use of the panel area but I can understand the NRE costs in doing so, but it would more justify the price. I'm not sure if its lazy design or better to outsource the CPU to the Pi... I think the reason for the more polyphony is they've had to source a different Pi and it has more CPU grunt and so they can make use of that with more voices. And not a fan of the new case. The corner angle metal pieces look like some stock metal from a home depo / DIY store. I owned a Wavestation in the 90s, but I'll be giving the SE a miss
Hi David - Thanks for your Comment. Yes, the design certainly smacks of laziness, as if they couldn't be bothered to do a decent redesign job. So disappointing... 😢
100% agree. I have both the Wavestate and Modwave and love those but Korg either missed a trick here or just milking the cash cow...
Hi - Yes, great instruments. Maybe they should put udders on the SE models 😄
Not quite!
For the same price as a new Opsix SE I purchased all used and in excelent condition a Novation Summit, Deepmind 12 and a Korg prologue 8.
Blimey! That's good going. Well done 👍
I have been thinking of the Wavestate SE because I wanted a Wavestate but thought the original "plastic" was too non-professional for travelling etc. I concur I thought the 30+ key versions were too much for the build. As you mentioned, the price point of the SE for the Wavestate and or Opsix is daunting. Too bad the 30+ key ones weren't better keybed and over build @ their initial price. It does seem after the Kronos left the market that the newer models are cheaper-looking to save something but not the consumer.
Yes, I think Korg has lost the quality/pricing plot - they're stuff is not just vastly over-priced but poor quality, too. Their also the new modules. No idea what the quality is like but, again, priced the same as the original versions, but, coupled with a decent keyboard they might be a better option. A least as good as you'll get from Korg these days...
I've bought the Opsix SE and I love it. So much so that I'm planning to buy the Wavestate SE to replace my basic 37 key version. The keyboard adds so much more to these machines
My relevant Korg count:
Wavestate 2022 edition
Opsix SE
Wavestate SE Platinum
I have to say that the Opsix SE comes alive with after touch. I love it!
The Wavestate SE is enhanced... but also oddly different in its basic sound. Rather more polite, less in your face - the noisy teenager tamed? I've made some great patches on both my Wavestates, but the SE is more refined?? Not sure I can describe things better than this.
Note that both SEs are available for under £1k if you look around.
Good stuff! The main complaint was the silly price 😊
@@IanWaugh I think £995 is more like it!
@@TalesofWiltshire Absolutely 👍
I was waiting for a 61 key Opsix to replace the 37 one I have. At the price point and with the decision to just whack the 37 key Opsix UI in the middle of the chassis and not take advantage of the vast areas of the front panel to remove the need for Shift to access some of the menus, I'll be sticking to playing my Opsix with one of my other keyboards. Korg have lost the plot! Interesting thought for you though. Would we be saying the same thing if they'd led with the Opsix/Wavestate SEs? I think they screwed themselves by starting with cheapies. They set their price anchor and now people can't see the value in the "premium" versions.
Interesting thought. I think reviewers - or some of them 😊 - would have picked up on the multi button combos and wonder why the real estate was not better utilised. And railed against the small screen. And wonder why, for the price, it didn't have poly aftertouch 😊
If they'd just done modules at a reasonable price they'd have been struggling to keep up with demand.
Then maybe do a really upgraded SE version further down the road for the true devotees.
Great video, and good design for debate, in terms of video van edit: not sure it you need to zoom in and out every 10seconds 😂, maybe use a B camera?
Hi Thank you. I only have one camera and I reckon it can get boring watching the same POV for a long time. There's also the thing about engagement and they say movement and different shots help do that. Plus, I need to cut out so many errors and I shift in frame when that happens so a little zoom helps cover that. I'm not really good at this stuff. Suggestions welcome 😊
@@IanWaugh ahhh that makes Sense then! Adding another camera does help, but also take ‘s more time to setup, in my video’s I use three camera’s but takes so much more time. The trick or zoomin in and out, works but I think it’s a bit overdone in this video. But I see your point. Nevertheless I subbed! Keep up the great content! 🧡
@@Dolle_Man Thank you very muchh 👍
I am also hampered with poor vision (mentioned in several earlier videos) so time is against me for editing.
What do you use for recording? I know many people use OBS but I can't seem to get this set up as I'd like.
I guess I'll plod on and try not to need so many edits 😊
Its just the same knob layout as the small formfactor, with a bigger board, at least they could have given each operator/function a knob or a slider, a bit like on the twisted electrons mega fm, and with proper rugged outputs, you know the ones that are bolted to the chassis, like the dave smith synths have, to at least come close to justify the 2k+ euro price tag.
Hey Edwin - yeah, there's loads they could have done. More controls would have been great.
tbf the market has changed quite a bit in the last 10 years. back at the start of the last decade they were making affordable gear that was great. market leading in some respects with their affordable analog stuff. but now we have behringer completely dominating the low end part of the market, they probably don't want to compete with them, I don't think anyone wants to compete with them given their past history. they are probably in the transition phase of moving into being a more premium brand just haven't quite got it right yet ,they've made really great budget under the radar gear for so long now (which is part of the reason I have loved their stuff) that they probably didn't even imagine a time when there would be a new competitor on this scale on the block within their market they've done so well.
and lets keep in mind they've had to try to adapt to this total market change pretty quick, look at how behringer has flooded the market in just a few years, I have literally lost count of the amount of budget synths they are selling it's literally crazy what they are doing with announcing so many and putting so many out there and how big their operation is. I don't think korg will make anything like the volca again for a very long time, it would be bad business sense for an independent company. sometimes other companies force another companies hand and it doesn't work out well for us consumers I guess that's the way things go. if they change into a premium brand I probably won't be buying that much of it, i'll be priced out but will continue to enjoy their legacy gear as if it wasn't for that stuff I probably wouldn't have this hobby.
also,sidenote they were doing flight cases for cheaper synths too, the micro x came with a flight case and that was a real budget version of the triton engine.
Hi - Yes, you might be right about all that, although every other synth manufacturer, large and small, has had to content with B, too.
The point about the SE models is that I (and just about every other pundit) cannot see how the price can be justifies.
Sorry to pick up on 'premium' but whenever I hear that I think 'over-priced' 😊 Some synth manufacturers seem to get away with it but I think this plays into eletism and clever marketing 😊 We'll have to see how it goes and what develops.
@@IanWaugh I agree with yourself and the other commenters these were a bit of a bad decision, and I think you're right with a board that big it would make sense to put a lot more on there, they could do a lot more knob per function for starters. In terms of premium stuff we'll just have to wait and see I guess if their products justify the price in the future, hopefully they'll see the errors made here. Some premium stuff I can see the value in it even if it's not for me, if something is built well, high quality, but yes there are some companies which are basically dressed up and marketed as lifestyle products by placing more on the fashion element, unfortunately a trend which I hoped I wouldn't see in synths.
@@kcat80 Yes, it's a shame and disappointing. Can't see Korg doing a U-turn, though... 😢
I have a bunch of korg stuff. Old and recent. I m also surprised with what they did and do. I hope they release a korg 800dv FS. I think they will… if the price drops i might buy the drumlogue too.
Korg plays its cards very close to its chest so no clues about what it might or might not release. Behringer's your best bet for that 😊
The Drumlogue is around £470 in the UK at the moment.
For that price a combined multitimbral “modwave-Opsix-wavestate” with their respective controls in one case would have been adequate.
Anyway modwave and wavestate share the mostly the same sound libraries (compare each respective “voice name list”)
3-in-1! That would be awesome. Wonder if anyone at Korg thought of doing that... 😊
Addition my observation of the market:
Synthesizers aimed at sound designers tend to have 49 keys at most
Synths for performaning musicians have less controls and more keys and better keybeds.
(There may be exceptions from this rule).
@@hermask815 Hadn't thought about it like that. Makes sense. Although if you have more than one keyboard then 3-4 octaves is often fine. As well as being easier to carry 😊
Or just make modules so people can use whatever keybed they choose.
The SE versions are better than the OG placcy trash, but not much - and definitely not worth the asking price when compared to other far cheaper units.
Modal's 8X versions are a glowing example of what can be done at a lower price point.
@@Gainn Yes, lots of great keys, far cheaper and with a synth attached 😊
I currently have 9 keyboards - 3 of them came with cases. all 3 cases are in either the loft or the gair ridge.
Hey Connor - Yes, that's the way it is with forced case sales... 😢
@@IanWaugh actually 8 of the 9 I bought used - they just happen to have cases. I have so much rubbish in my gair ridge that I can't even park my lorry in there to check under the bonnet or boot. cheers from "the states."
@@connor_flanigan Ah... But they were probably factored into the price somewhere. You'll have to park your lorry in your studio 😄
@@IanWaugh not really. all 3 are Nords and I got pretty good deals on them. the people who bought them new felt like they needed a case and definitely gigged with them (and yes, they parted with a lot of cash . actually, I don't have a studio per say - I'm more of a hobbyist/basement rock star. 😎
@@connor_flanigan It's good to get a good deal 👍 Rock on 🎸🎸
You could get a Montage 6, which has an fm engine in it, for the same money...
Hey Paul - Yes, and much more, too.
Would enjoy to hear your take on the Korg Collection, (software versions) of many of the classics!
Hi - Well, as I said in the video, I love Korg gear and it's definitely been among my favourites over the years. I have far too many soft synths (from Arturia and Native Instruments to name but two developers) and many cover some Korg gear. I don't have any of Korg's software so can't comment from a hands-on perspective but the main reason I haven't bought into it is because I think it's over-priced. Obviously, many people don't, it's just my personal view. I've discussed it in a few videos including this one: ruclips.net/video/iW7omkEXqfE/видео.html
I began to produce music back in 2012, and I didn't have any idea of what I was doing at the time, what I did know is that Korg was a very wellknown company in the synth scene so I began to buy their products...
Right now only 1% of my equipment is from Korg; Opsix and a Mini Kaoss Pad 2s (that I couldn't sell at the time).
I learnt that there are other brands offering more for what one is paying for a Korg product, like; Elektron with their Digitone/Digitakt/Syntakt, ASM (Hydrasynth) and last but not least BEHRINGER wich Is right now my most beloved brand on the market... Deepmind 12, Neutron, Odyssey, Edge, Model D, Pro 1 and K2 (wich is a clone of MS20 with and WITHOUT the noisy "key-press"). Behringer is great and they are doing great when we talk about price and quality.
Korg is selling their name, like Roland is... Plastic everywhere for at leats 500€£$?
Yes but no, thanks.
Hi Daniel - Yes, there is a lot of competition out there and yes, there are many companies who rely on their name to sell and promote products.
Behringer may be the saviour of synthesizers 😊 They made some poor PR decisions which haven't been forgotten but I'm quite happy with their products 👍
Our companies are fine and will continue to do fine. If you have some (as per usual) ignorant western axe to grind - and no doubt like most of your worthless side of the world, racism as well - just do us a favour and stay away. We've had quite the fill already of you and your illegal wars. Lets hope Russia send you back to the stoneage where you belong.
it does have more polyphony but that doesn't require a whole lot of horsepower. if they're trying to sell it as a performance synth, it should have been 76 keys, bigger screen, additional knobs and sliders, PCM engine. it should have been really beefed up in both hardware and software. the price is crazy for what you get. i just picked up a barely used, perfectly working OpSix for $400 including tax and shipping. and thats up from where it was a year or so ago when there was a blowout sale that i missed.
Hi - Yes, there are a lot of things it should have had. The original is the best deal, especially 2nd hand 👍
And what do you think about Yamaha Montage M8X at ca 4500 £ ??
I'm not really into workstations so difficult to comment. I wish Yamaha had continued to produce proper synths, though...
My Yamaha Montage has 8 FM operators that you can tweak to your heart's content. What does the Korg Op Six do better?
Is that a rhetorical question? Either way, I don't know 😊
Korg Opsix - $450, Yamaha Montage 8 - $3450. Your point is what? 😄
@@mack_solo So it isn’t anything special then.
@@mack_soloWhy cute and quite the most expensive Montage? Kinda undermines your attempted point. MODX6 has the same 8-operator FM engine, a sample-based engine, with more polyphony, plus a color touchscreen, sliders/faders, knobs, audio input, Superknob, etc., and can be had for an even greater price, now that the MODX+ models are out.
Your point is what?
Nice video, Although i do like the retro Look for a bit more money you have a Polybrute or a Jupiter X which gives you so much more for the money.
Hey Jan - Thank you. Yes, many synths are much better value 😊
@@IanWaugh still proud owner of the Prologue. Greetings from Holland Ian. I always enjoy watching your channel. Keep those videos coming. :)
@@janpieternieman5295 Thank you, Jan, very kind. Yes, I like a lot of Korg gear and I know a few people who also love the prologue 👍
Glad I decided a while ago to buy the software version of Wavestate. I do agree the retail price for these SE keyboards is unjustifiable. Speaking of Korg sales, I bought myself the Electribe-R VST for just under £100 (£50 off). Yes - wait for the sales. There will always be a sale (or a sale just around the corner)!
Hey Philip - Good deal 👍 I do like twiddling the controls but the software is great, too 😊
"Official" Korg sales are mostly for the US market though, and I'm not sure they're actually better than online marketshops' ordinary street prices either.
Thanks for the understandable comment on recent years Korg products.
For now I'd rather buy a second hand Korg Karma and make it sound as fantastic as possible!
Hi Mark - Yes, there are many 2nd-hand, very affordable synths out there offering much better value than some current releases 👍
I agree the SE versions are a missed opportunity to have a great user interface. A big touch screen would have helped enormously. It's got to be said though, the principle of squeezing every last penny out of customers is not confined to Korg. The Oberheim OB8 costs over €5200 and the Moog Matriarch is over €2000. Both mahoosively overpriced IMO.
Hi - Yes, many companies seem to rely on their past name to over-charge.
@@IanWaugh Indeed Ian. Thanks for the informative and entertaining vid btw..
@@Sentientfx1 Thank you. I do aim to be slightly entertaining 😊 Glad you enhoyed it.
I agree with most of this video. But what bothers me is the "software synth" talk. Korg has taken the RaspberryPi's compute model and runs his own synthesis software on it. There is of course other hardware around it, such as DA converters, MIDI hardware, etc. And this is how almost all digital synthesizers have been built since the end of the 80s. All with a processor (e.g. Intel, Motorola, Hitachi, ...), DA converters, MIDI hardware and above all based on software. Except that nobody talks disparagingly about "software synths" when it comes to these synthesizers.
Hey Christoph - All synths have ancillary hardware. Most synths (not all) have dedicated hardware. They can be emulated in software but they are not intrinsically soft synths
Main complaint is the price, though...
@@IanWaughIf your criticism is primarily that they took a cheap RaspberryPi CM, wrapped some hardware around it and ran their software on it and charged a high price for it, then I agree with you. And as for the other synthesizers. Even if there was no motivation when developing these synthesizers, they would later be released as soft synthesizers. However, they are all based on software. And with the three Korg models. The engine, the sequencer, etc. already exist, but a GUI still has to be developed to run on Windows, Mac or Linux. And the software also needs to be adapted/compiled for another OS/processor architecture.
@@christophborowski725 Hi Christoph - sure, but hardly an arduous process compared to developing a hardware synth from scratch 😊
@@IanWaugh Yes, it is more complex than using an existing hardware platform. But understandable if it provides the required computing power and, above all, an extensive development environment already exists for it. Then the synthesizer should be cheaper. Especially if these small, cheap OLED displays are also installed.
@@christophborowski725 Yes, a lot of people were unhappy that the display had not been upgraded.
The wavestate/opsix/modwave all run on RaspberryPI compute modules (version 3 for the non SE version, don't know if they upgraded for the newer ones). And we recently found out that even Nautilus run on an industrial Asrock PC motherboard with a low cost Intel Atom CPU (retail price about $100). And I wouldn't bash Korg for this choices. It's not a bad idea to use of the shelf components to bring down manufacturing/design costs (and time to market).
But then Korg decided to NOT pass these savings to the consumer. The Opsix / Wavestate SE prices are a joke. The original Opsix costs around 500€, please tell me that a larger case and a 61 keys premium keybed shoots this to over 2K. It doesn't. It's just Korg making *lots* of money from it. And don't get me started on the included flight case.
What's even worse is the price of the Wavesteate MKii version (the new 37 key one). Thomann and most online retailers have this for around 900 €. The worst keybed ever, on a plasticky chassis with a RasPI inside - that they were selling originally for around 600 € - now for 900? Are we kidding ourselves here?
I would really like to get the new wavestate (I had the older one and still have the VST) but at this price it's a joke. We'll of course wait and see what the actual street prices will be.
Hi - Thanks for the additional info.
Yes, using off-the-shelf components has many advantages but, as you say, it would be nice if customers saw a little of the benefits.
And, yes, the price of the Mk ii is beyond understanding...
@@IanWaugh do you think using a Raspberry Pi as the brain is a disservice to the consumer?
@@HazeAnderson Not per se 😊
To my understanding they just put OG Opsix motherboard in a new cases with keyboards (made in Japan). It seems like they just need to sell japanese stock cases with keybeds probably left in the warehouses (it is too obvious that this cases were meant for something different).
(And yes it's not the first time Korg did something like that- just look at horrible Electribe 2 compared to Electribes with tubes and step sequencer... )
Thanks man! It's refreshing to hear real opinion after all than "independent" youtubers who praise everything big corporation do. Sub from me!
Yes, something weird going on in the worlld of Korg.
Thank you kindly for the sub 👍
My channel's not big enough to be of interest to any company 😊
I love the look of the platinum but i can get fm synths on my phone on a raspberry pi, on a latptop. A laptop, controller and a copy of FM8 would come in for less money.
Hi Alan - Yes indeed. Crazy price... 😲
One of the advantages of hardware synths is the interface, and the Opsix actually has an amazing interface for not just FM but also additive with algorithm 32.
And personally, I do all that it takes to avoid having to rely on computers and phones for live performance. I've tried playing with a MIDI controller and a DAW and it just doesn't feel good.
Granted, in this case I am performing with the original Opsix. No way I can afford the SE at any point of the near future. And unless I become a massively successful musician going on tour, I don't think I'll need it. I understand much of the price of the SE comes from the build quality
Maybe Kodamo should release a keyboard version of the EssenceFM. Bigger screen and might be a better value than the Opsix. I do like the form factor of the SE's. They remind me a little of the old DSS sampler.
Yes, I think there is so much they could have done.
Great video. Thank you.
Thank you 👍
Great analysis Ian. I agree with your conclusions re Korg - I increasingly feel that they are both paradoxically a leader in innovation but also over-pricing (which they would probably describe as value-pricing) their products with the new Nautilus AT releases/upgrades as yet another example. I’m not sure if it’s a simple corporate profit goal and feel that maybe they are positioning themselves as an ‘Apple’ of electronic music with introductory, novel products leading to higher margin aspirational purchases. There’s nothing wrong with this approach (after all, it’s working well for Apple) but it doesn’t work if they sacrifice quality of products along the way. It’s true that people will pay more for things they perceive as high value and most consumers want to develop long-term relationships with brands that align with their own values (one thing Apple does better than most) but the cynic in me thinks that Korg aren’t embracing the entire Apple philosophy and the risk of chasing shorter-term profits will inevitably result in lower customer advocacy and retention (especially with so many new, innovative, and dare I say original vendors in the space ready to eat their lunch - and I haven’t even mentioned the obvious threat of Behringer…). Keep up the good work!
Hi Steven - Thank you. Yes, it seems like Korg is totally ignoring what's out there both in terms of price and technology. Someone said that all synths will now have to at least consider the Osmose and, as you say, there is much technological development going on elsewhere. Korg seems to be living in a vacuum.
I have a Korg Wavestate MK1, and I see no reason to upgrade, I have a Kontakt S61 as my controller. Even if I had the cash, would probably get something different. Happy with my Wavestate.
Hi - Yes I have a Mk i and an S49 and defo won't be upgrading 😊 Thinking - NI should be bringing out a Mk iii of the S series soon...
Korg is strange. Some things like the Prologue and Minilogue Xd are a great value, but other things like what you mention are overpriced. Weird that they think they can charge $1800 for a full size Odyssey when the Behringer version is $600.
Hi - Yes, they seem to live inn their own little Korg world... 😊 The Minilogue is a great little synth and reasonably-priced, too 👍
Go with the vst or wait the ipad version
Hi Peter - Makes sense. I do like the physical controls, though, so sticking with my Wavestate Mk I and looking for a cheap 2nd-hand Op-Six 😊
@@IanWaugh IMHO The future will be when a 'extrudable' film is placed on the surface of the iPad that changes shape based on what is touched by the fingers. The knobs and sliders will 'take shape' between the user's fingers simulating physicality. At this point, we will have the best of both worlds. Greetings, brother.
@@PeterPrism I'd buy one! 👍 Apple's latest VR experiments coming to an iPad near you SOON 😲
@@IanWaugh friend, personally, I don't believe that using those bulky glasses can be the solution, even if Apple intends to replace them with the same iPhone: we would all look like crazy divers. Instead, having something tactile to manipulate for our musical purposes would be ideal, but perhaps we're just a small niche admiring the capabilities of the iPad and its potential in this regard. No one in the world has yet hypothesized this three-dimensional and 'physical' possibility."
@@PeterPrism We're probably talking about cornea and brain implants or physical holograms. Not sure how practical that might be but fascinating to consider.
Just picked up the original for 390 used on reverb
Absolutely! 👍😊
I know the original wasn't certainly not low cost, but if you want to emulate a TX816 you would need 128 notes polyphonics
Indeed, but that's a Yamaha thing, isn't it?
@@IanWaugh Ya but I think the opsix is just like the mod7 on the kronos able to load .syx from the DX7. So even the Kronos would only have 7 notes poly if you load 8 channels up with those big Epiano TX patches
@@mrdali67 Not familiar with the Kronos. No idea if the Op-Six can load DX patches but the Op has far more algos and can use other waveforms. Not sure about the polyphony. The original has 32 which would be enough for me, while the SE has 80.
I already own original Wavestate. I want Opsix but the SE prices are ridiculous. I don't understand why Korg released an updated same size Wavestate & the bigger SE but with Opsix they're only releasing the SE, no MK 2 same size version like Wavestate got.
I think I'll just buy Opsix Native for 1/10 the price of SE and use a good controller. 😅
Korg's marketing department is being run by an 8-year old 😄
It is a soft synth after all so that makes good sense 👍
Crazy prices ! Rather go for a Nautilus but now with the ones with aftertouch, the prices is also overpriced for just aftertouch. I'm working in a studio and couldn't care less about the case.
Yeah, it's crazy all round. They aren't making themselves any friends...
What you mentioned about the misuse of front panel space on the Opsix brings an unrelated topic to the forefront of my mind. Something which I might have mentioned in previous comment has to do with certain instruments I’ve always admired from the 80s. They include the Rhodes Chroma, the PPG Wave 2, the Sequential Prophet T8 and a few non-synth keyboards that were being played like the Rhodes, Wurlitzer andYamaha CP pianos, as well as Roland’s first digital piano, the RD-1000. Only instruments have only one physical attribute in common; they all have a chassis with a stackable surface behind the front panel. Yamaha was still building digital pianos with that feature during the 2000s, but I think it’s been a while since anyone tried doing that. It’s a drag a poor musician like me won’t be able to convince somebody like the Korg research and development people to consider bringing that back.
In recent years, the only cork model that has actually fascinated me at all is Kronos. Fascinates me for the same reason I was fascinated by the Open Labs NeKo, having everything that a musician would want compressed into one instrument that was also equipped with recording technology. How big of a splash did that monster make on the market?
Hi Eric - Not thought much about stackability although I guess it could be important to the smaller gigging musician.
Never really followed workstation-type keyboards although I guess the SY77 was one. I sorta like having separate devices for different functions - easier to swap and change and doesn't make my brain hurt so much 😊
That last part is very easy to relate to, @@IanWaugh . thank you as before for responding to my comment.
@@Shred_The_Weapon 👍
So YOU sir, are the guy to watch on synths and keyboards! You actually delve into the internal hardware and prices! I am always commenting on synths from KORG that have PC or pi systems and Linux OS in them and of course the AKAI MPC series instruments which use a more obscure but not so rare single board computer with LINUX installed as well lol. In the end I am revisiting my list of synth wish list/purchase list cause I do not want to pay $650USD for a used OPSIX or any of those synths again.. not worth it when I can buy the software and build a premium controller/PC setup with a 22" touch screen instead.. duh.. Thankyou for your informative and surprising detailed video on this. Yes the keys of the SE series is PANASONIC/MATSUSHITA ELECTRIC/TECHNICS keybed used in keyboards of the 1980s... 1980s folks..
Hi - Thank you, but I think you know more about these than me or most other folks.
Interesting comment about the keyboard...
If you can make your own synths, that's amazing. I can see why over-priced off-the-shelf models have little appeal. More power to you 👍
blimey that's absolutely mad concerning the pi based synth. Not sure I could ever be lured into buying a raspberry pi based synth for this price. I mean from my position my SY77 and XP50 felt like you were getting the money worth with the dedicated hardware. Has anyone opened one of these machines up yet? lol I'm guessing it's not entirely just a raspberry pi sitting there on it's own but still this isn't an approach I like to see them take? I think everything turns into that more corporate lead approach especially these days. It tends not to work though if it's this obvious they are cutting costs. Great job on highlighting this
Raspberry Pi has been running industrial market for years, and even though these are "off the shelf" products, they are not on the consumer stores shelves. The CPU module is a CM3+ and it powers two main boards in the Korg's synth trio (opsix/mod/wavestate). People got sarcastic about the Raspberry Pi usage after Korg's failed initial firmware releases - it's not Raspberry's fault someone didn't do their quality control before marketing the instruments. You could run all the Apollo moon rockets simultenously on just one of those. Raspberry Pi is fine.
Hi - thanks Adro. I haven't opened mine but I guess some have. There'll be other stuff in there like A/D converters but probably not anny dedicated chips or gubbins like the SY77. They are soft synths 😊
They're mostly empty space filled with plastic moldings. you can just chop the entire keybed and most of the case off without harming the function at all.
The SY range were proper things. No space left unfilled and secured with what seems like a million screws.
@@Gainn I may be wrong but I seem to recall a guy or company who would remove the keyboard. Probably a better all-round solution 😄
@@IanWaugh Yeah, I've seen a kit for them. I think I'll end up taking them out of the housings and making them into a pseudo rack-mount type of thing with a single housing for all 3. Everything in my setup is always controlled by a Yamaha QY700 and/or a Hapax, so having keys on most things (other than my midi controller and an SY85) is just a waste of space.
How many people these days post to guys like you and say "thank you for your voice of reason from the wilderness" The new Yamaha MODX+7 is $1,600 and the amount of functionality and quality compared to these new Korg's is not even comparable. I'm getting one next spring when my guess it will be $1,499. Thanks again Ian.
Hi - Glad you found it useful, thank you. The MoDX is great - have fun 👍
I picked up a MODx6 before the prices went nuts. At one point you could get them for about $650/£700.
@@Gainn I'm looking at the MODX7+, I'm wondering if price will drop by next spring. Thoughts?
@@SWATTECHNOLOGIES They'll probably drop in special offers, but it depends on sales numbers. They seem popular enough to hold most of the price for now. I'd guess a $300 drop at some point but I wouldn't hold my breath. The + does have some tempting additions.
@@Gainn that's what I thought thank you. I'm getting $700 for sale of my Roland FA so $1,000 for MODX+7 is good also considering I'll keep it for years to come
I think the FS / SE synths are probably just meant to promote the brand, giving it an air of quality and respectability that it wouldn't have otherwise, but the big money is probably in the Volcas and the sub £500 synths.
What bothers me is that they've stopped releasing the sysex specification for their synths, so even a simple thing like dumping patches and loading in new ones is tied to their proprietary software, which is tied to operating systems that might not be around in ten or more years.
I have the Minilogue XD, and that has sysex details published, so I can do patch management with any decent sysex librarian. The ones you've shown here don't have a published sysex spec, which limits their lifespan - Korg will stop supporting them in a few years, then a a few years later, Windows or Mac OS won't support the librarian software any more. It's stopped me buying them, personally.
If you want an MS20, get the Mini. That is reasonably good value for money, and if you really can't get on with "slim" keys, just use it on top of a full sized keyboard - like the Opsix SE :)
Hi - I've no idea what Korg's thinking is behind this so you could be right.
I'm a trusting soul. I only have the Wavestate and use K's librian. But very bad news not to publish Sys Ex. Maybe to prevent others producing editors...?
I didn't like the size of the MS-20 Mini panel. If I was to go down that route I'd probably get Mr B's K2 but I really like the look and layout of the full size one.
I’m an owner of the Modwave, Opsix and two K2’s. Instead of fillers I’d much rather Korg spend their attention on bringing back an updated Oasys
Hi - Yeah, there's so much more they could be doing - but preferably at sensible prices...
Korg has been riding high off of previous successes but have not kept pace with the rest of the market over the last decade. They are following the same trajectory as Intel.
Hi - Yes, I think they have a bit of work to do.
On one hand this its like Korg finally has gotten the message that people dont want Synth's with general cheap plastic chassis and poor keybeds wether it's mini keys or normal sized that feels like the old Italian Bontempi kids keyboards. On the other hand the pricing is totally off when you think off that wether you use a cheap Pi Compute board for the hardware version or a normal PC/Mac mac it's still just software.
For freaking sake .. scuse my french 😆Make a good Quality MPE Keyboard controller with poly aftertouch that has a Decent Display and enough assignable buttons, faders and knobs to general cover most used functions and just sell the whole software package with all available new and old Korg Synth VST's. You could have either a version that takes a set ammount of compute boards or just use a PC/laptop tugged away I don't care wether I have to add a compute board to the keyboard for each synth or just run it on a PC or laptop tugged away. I'm not sure if these synths run completely on the Pi or if there is added DSP chips. But anyway the original versions of these Synths is irelevant cause of the poor quality keybeds, and the SE models is too expensive and today people have no use of all those keybeds. Might as well make them as in the old days in a rack version. With hardware today you could fit at least 5 Synth's in a 1U rack if they all just use a pi compute board.
If Korg used the time on porting the XG-2, EP-1, CX-3, HD-1, STR-1 and AL1 they could have a Software Kronos 3 system that is totally agnostic to whatever hardware it runs on. The more processing power the more Polyphonics. I'm still very fond of my Kronos 2 and a long time Korg user all the way back to the DW8000, and the Kronos is still the most powerfull Workstation out there. Nothing comes even close to it beside specific Professional Sample libraries and some VST Synth's. No ordinary standalone keyboard can match it, but at some point these will start to fail so It would be nice to see what Korg want to bring to their longterm users instead of just catering for the EDM community. Really many Proffessional session keyboardist still rely on their Kronos.
Hey - Thanks for your thoughts 👍
Bring back the racks😊 Great space savers but I do like hands-on controls.
There's lots of possibilities, but I doubt we'll see any.
Someone suggested that the Osmose is the new standard that all synth manufacturers will have to achieve. Interesting...
@@IanWaugh I was thinking that if Korg would make a good controller, It would make the synths cheaper if people don't really like the keybeds anyway. I could come up with a knob layout for a controller that could cover both the Opsix, Modwave and Wavestate 😁 and propably a lot of the synth's in Korg's software suite
@@mrdali67 That would be interesting. I definitely think their design team could do with some help 😎
I'll stick with squat little version which I bought brand new for around £450. The prices on the 'specials' are ridiculous!
Quite 👍
Korg seems to have got the message and they are now going for £1225 🤔😄
Fully agree with you. Korg has a strange strategy.
Thank you kindly 😊
I will not buy the SE version of those synths. I have a Wavetstate, Opsix, and Modwave. I will buy a Hydrasynth deluxe so I can take advantage of poly aftertouch of my synths, with the Hydrasynth,…. 😁😁😁
this is the way
Hi Richard - all 3 - Wow! Do you have a favourite?
Yes, your approach is most sensible - you get the power and control AND another synth 👍 😊
@@IanWaughmy favorite is the Wavestate…. 😃
@@IanWaughBy the way, I have an Hydrasynth Explorer, right now,… 😉 I am saving my money for the deluxe version.
@@richarddufresne2683 That's what I have but also tempted by the hands-on control of the Op-Six.
It's currently even more expensive than Korg Nautilus 61!
Crazy or what!? 😲
You can be 110% sure that since all these 3 synths sounds exactly like their software version. the software might actually be better dependent on your Audio interface's D/A and analog components
There's a thought. I'm surprised @StarskyCarr hasn't done a comparison 😊
@@IanWaugh I will check that out 😊 in my Logic there shouldn’t be much difference since these synths is all software. It’s another matter to compare a standard synth patch from a hardware DX7 and a software emulation. The MOD7 of the Kronos eg. Does’t sound like a DX7. Even the mkII DX7 is brighter and cleaner than the old 12bit DAC of the original, the Kronos sound a little mushy compared to the TX802 wich have the newer 16bit DAC too.
@@mrdali67 Yes, I wouldn't have thought there'd be much, if any, difference.
Kong has been watching other companies like Nord who charge astronomical prices for sample playback machines
Yes, I think a few companies do the same.
Korg software is 50% off right now. Good time to upgrade my Korg Collection.
Good timing - Never pay full price 😄
Indeed. Korg's software emulations of its own hardware are very good. I have the original Legacy series (including M1 and Wavestation), which I guess is "vintage" itself by now. I intend to keep it going.
My only real complaint is that the original Legacy version of the MS-20 doesn't let you see the entire instrument at a glance when editing; you have to scroll back and forth between the patch bay and the rest of it. They've remedied this in more recent versions. I think they designed it that way to drive demand for the eventual reissue of the real MS-20, which hadn't happened yet. They didn't put out a software emulation that gives you a good view of the whole instrument when editing until after the new hardware version had been out for a good long while. But the old software MS-20 still sounds great and offers all the polyphony your computer can handle. There's also polyphonic unison, with the ability to specify the number of regular voices in each unison voice.
@@anonymoushuman8344 Yes, I think the software is generally excellent. I made a prediction at the beginning of the year that more companies would move from hard to soft.
I really fell out of love with the MS-20 with Korg's re-issue price and have been using Arturia's version which can do so much more. But is far less twiddleable 😊
I personally complete disagree with the comments about the reissues that Korg have done. In recent years, I bought 3x MS-20 FS, MS20-M, 2x MiniKorg 700FS, 2600M, Odyssey FS and just now the 2600 FS. Well I can tell you: I don't regret any of it. You say the 2600 FS is expensive? 4000 euros is a steal in comparison to the prices (10K++) these were going for. And the sound, to me, is nowhere comparable to the Behringer clones, let alone for the organic sound, detail of manufacturing and reverb. These things are not made in China like some cheap car.
Maybe you have another problem and that is for every individual different... Compared to the prices back in the day these are prices are right in my opinion.
I can't judge about the Op Six, it doesn't interest me (still have the classic Wavestation however).
Hi Dave - Wow! That's a lot of gear. You are obviously Korg's ideal customer 😊
Many people compare current gear prices with 2nd-hand prices. I think this is erroneous because they are different markets.
Likewise , it's not easy to do a comparison with original prices as the tech has often got cheaper and inflation is not a good metric for cost (ruclips.net/video/6RVBYHy_DgE/видео.html)
No doubt some Korg gear looks better (as I said in the video) but Behringer's gear is quite smart and robust.
As for the sound, that's up to the individual but there's usually a lot less in it than some folks think, especially when it hits the mix.
You've got some great gear - enjoy 👍
There's one point I would disagree: No artists would gig with the Arp2600? Well Stevie Wonder, Edgar Winter and many others sure disagreed for the original and so why not. It's part of the show even. And the same indeed is thinkable for the Opsix or especially the wavestate. I'd found it interesting if they used that package and put all 3 synths in one, modwave, opsix and Wavestate. That for the price seemded okish then. Well and then pack the Nautilus engines, Sequencer, Audio and the Big Screen in and there goes the Kronos successor.
Hi Torben - I said few artists, around 5% 😊 Yes, 3-in-1 would justify the price 😊
@@IanWaugh Everyone who has it will gig with it. I'm sure.
@@torbenanschau6641 The 2600?
@@IanWaugh Sure thing. Have you never seen Frankenstein by Edgar Winter?
@@torbenanschau6641 I think saying EVERYONE who has a 2600 will gig with it is a bit of a stretch but let's not fall out over it 😊
The Opsix's Raspberry PI can be easily brought to its knees when using the modulation matrix and user algorithms. At the original MSRP it was a rip-off for anyone who doing any deep programing, at the blowout prices it was just a disappointment that could be worked around. Korg's use of the Raspberry PI is all the proof I need to determine that Korg has lost the plot.
Hi - Haven't heard that before. I guess you can marmalise any computer system. Would have thought critical systems like this would have safeguards to prevent it happening. Anyway... Yes, disappointing
i am a old time fan of Korg, and i bought Wavestate and Opsix. I like so much them expecially for their format/size. i wish Korg could produce a Karma and a M1 in the same size of those 37 keys. But, unbelivable, come out the SE. to do WHAT? more than 2000€ for what? do they know we can buy a good controller and control 2 Wavestate for less than 1000€??? and i will not have simply "more poliphony". i will have DOUBLE LAYERS!
those SE are the most silly things KORG has done in history..
Yes, Korg is not making any fans...
Never pay full price for software, unless, you know the product is developed by a tiny company or single developer and you actually care to support their future, ability to keep the lights on, and ability to continue to make software updates and not then ask you to buy into a subscription scheme. As for the Korg keyboards, it's a bit of a let down really - whilst a price increase is understandable for the nicer keybed, just re-boxing the same PCB/UX layout is unfortunate - lets hope there could be some updates in that regard at a later point in time.
Hi - Thanks for checking this out. Whole 'nother video on the software issue. Food for thought.
I guess Korg could add another Rapberry Pi 😊 but updates are only going to be of the software variety.
@@IanWaugh My feeling on the SE keyboards is even if the display and knobs count remained the same, a control panel layout change would have been immensely helpful - e.g. reposition the vector stick to just above the pitch/wheel area, and spread the knobs sections across the keyboard area. I expect the compute module used in the SE versions is slightly more powerful now - that's a drop in replacement (there were no doubt supply issues before), so the polyphony count can go up, but really the underlying compute architecture is less important than the UX/layout on a hardware synth of this size. These synths sound excellent and deserve a nicer control layout - and it could probably have been done without software changes, but would require more PCBs/cabling. You know, as I am an independent plugin developer, I wish there was an option for customers to pay extra if they wanted to help me out :) maybe I need to set up a 'buy me a coffee' link on my product pages. As mentioned before, there is a huge range in what plugin devs/companies are earning - from minus X$ (taking into account time costs) upwards.
@@wavesequencer Hi - Yes, you're absolutely right about the SE and the controls.A missed - or ignored! - opportunity.
I certainly think it's important to support small developers for innovation, variety and to stave off a monopoly. I'd guess some, probably larger devs, are making a fortune from software. It's not always easy being small. Good luck and keep going 😊👍
After much careful listening, the SE models just SOUND way better. Seems like it would be hard to tell over crummy video audio but wonder if they might be using better DA converters than the plastic keyboard versions. In Korg’s defense, their ARP and ms-20 filters are the real deal and sound like butter. The same beringher versions are an absolute train wreck. You get what you pay for.
Hi Dan - if only that was true... 😊 Korg may have upped the converters but I haven't read anything to that effect. Dan Warrel suggests that YT audio is actually pretty accurate. Korg and Behringer have probably used different components so there are likely to be differences but I haven't heard anything that suggests B is worse than K. However, if that's what your ears tell you, go for it 😊
At present as of May 2024, you can buy a New Korg Nautilus 61 key (Not the new AT version) for the bargain price of £1500! Which we all know comes with 9 engines inc the FM engine & the Wavestation engine derived from the fantastic Kronos, so why would you buy one of the 2 Opsix SE or the Wavestate SE? When you can get All 9 engines for the price of 1?!
Hi Andy - Yes indeed. Also, as of now, the SE is down to £1299 which is £99 more than most pundits think it's worth.
Really stupid launch price but I think in recent times Korg has been overestimating the value and worth of its releases. Just my opinion 😊
Completely agree. These synths will bonb completely. I can see them being sold of for well under £1000 by next year, just to get rid of them.
Hi Kevin - That would be a thing :-) They've ipped the price of the Wavestate Mk ii to around £700. The Mk ii and the SE prices might meet in the middle... :-)
Korg is the king at giving ppl 80% of what they wanted and then stupidly pricing themselves above the competition
🤣 I think you're right there!
Is the synth engine/"sound space" of this synth highly desirable to a number of people? Is the 80 note polyphony highly desirable to a number of people? Is the metal case and high quality keybed with AT highly desirable to a number of people? To get those there are NO other options which is part of the product development and marketing genius of Korg. MODX+ has a terrible interface, is plastic, and has no aftertouch - it is the only other possible choice. Could Korg have made this bi-timbral with dedicated outs/layer for the same price? Without a doubt, but why would they do that when such upgrades are on an incremental schedule? They have made the initial investment it this RPi platform and will now ride it with upgrades like that for MANY years to come. Does that mean this is not worth $2k? I think for many it is worth it and they will feel they have gotten good value at the price. I am not one of them - once Korg ships the inevitable Mk2 version in good quantity I will pick up a Mk1 for $300 used.
Hi - Well, the whole synth is desireable, but not at the price. Potential users have to balance that for themselves. The synths are unique but so are many other synths, each with their own strenghs.
Korg isn't reknowned for updates and there's a saying in the synth world - don't buy a synth based on what updates MIGHT happen
I'm waiting to see the market flooded with 2nd-hand Op-Sixes as owners ruch to buy the Se. Still waiting... 😊
I was bitterly disappointed when I found out the Wavestate SE price.
I loved the Wavestate, but don't like the 37 key vibe, and wanted aftertouch.
Then to add insult to injury, they release the software for a fraction of the hardware price.
These current products are not essentially Japanese, so we know we are being grifted by the USA design team.
Ah. I don't know where they come from but I reckon it;s the marketeers and bean counters setting the silly prices. You've probably seen they've announced module versions so one of those plus a keyboard could be the answer but I don't yet know if these have equally stupid prices...
*RANDY JUDAH TORREZ ❤️
Hey Randy - Yes, Korg makes some really cool gear but has a lot of competition which it seems to ignore...
@@IanWaugh
RANDY JUDAH TORREZ ❤️ <
Right if KORG had a work station slash Synthesizer like ROLAND FANTOM we wouldn't be having this discussion
Seems to me the buck stopped with
KORG PRO and STUDIO no more innovation ROLAND is always Advancing 🔥
but man I absolutely love KORG
KORG was my first real professional keyboard the KORG DS-8 61 keys
@@RandyTorrez-wb5sz Ha! Ha! Yeah, maybe we wouldn't...
@@IanWaugh
RANDY JUDAH TORREZ ❤️ <
Don't get me wrong I appreciate your comments Thank you
@@RandyTorrez-wb5sz Not at all. Just my thoughts. 😊
An incredible profit grab, yes! I wanted an Op 6 until I felt the keyboard, now I don't think a NEW Korg is a good buy- so many choices nowadays.
Yes, you're right. If you can handle the keyboard, the Op-Six currently seems to be a good buy. You could always use it with another keyboard. There's also the soft version but you lose the hands-on controls.
you're not wrong
korg and roland aren't who they used to be
at least yamaha keeps their goofiness to a minimum
the SE is SExy but yeah, getting it for cheaper is the best way to go
Yes, many companies seem to be relying on their name now to sell over-priced products... 😢
Oh my, it's a rasberry PI in these synths... I thought there was a lot of high quality audio components inside, not a hobbyist dev board.
Then they should be priced far far lower especially as its the physical controls that cost the most in a product and the controls (apart from the keyboard) is the same as in the small variants.
There could be some costs for developing the software but as its already made for the small versions that cost is very small.
I agree its vastly overpriced, but maybe they will lower this after the first hype has died down.
But i dont own one of these so it might be a very good instrument and worth a bit more than other similar instruments.
Yes. It - and it's compatriots - are soft synths with dedicated controls. Alas, they keep pushing up the price and have done so again with the release of modular versions. Great sounds and great synths but definately not worth the asking price... 😱
Ok, the DX7 in 1983 was an unruly thing due to its small screen and its poor distribution of functions for menu diving, but 40 years have passed, sir!
Now there are things that work as a library editor, and are free, such as Dexed Vst that also allows you to use Dx7 sounds in the form of a vsti plugin and standalone program without the need for a connected keyboard.
Really any old Dx7 is a blast in 2023 if you combine it with DEXED.
Ok now we go to the price of OPsix SE which is 2499 euros for Europe with 61 keys (they are not Fatar T9).
It still has the same digitakt-inspired screen, with those non-metal rotary buttons that are very soft and wobbly plastic.
It's not a 24-bit synthesizer like an access virus that can cost the same money of 2499 euros, but it has 16 independent parts and it's like buying 16 monotrimbral access viruses, it's really justified.
This is where Korg made a big mistake, he didn't give any extra reason for people to buy this thing for 2499 euros. It is the worst offer in 20 years, perhaps because from the first day they presented the prototype they made the worst decision to make the product as cheap as possible, where the 37-key Opsix mk1 came out in an approach more for homestudio, for young boys who want Have something interesting in your study.
But the thing went off the road with this update that does not justify it in the price. a simple update for 120 voices of polyphony and a cooler casing that is not high-end surgical aluminum either, nor is it designed by the great Alex Hartmann, who has been the best architect for musical instruments of the moment for a few decades.
It does not have a more generous screen and the keyboard with 61 keys looks wasted with that empty space, it reminds me a lot of the Juno 106 where the panel was in the middle in a strange way, while the Juno 60 had a better distribution of controls on the panel for 61 keys.
things that are powerful and interesting than the OPsix below its price in 2023:
AKAI Professional MPC Key 61(sampler with subtractive synths and FM)
Yamaha MODX6+(FM AWM Synthesizer)
Korg Nautilus (workstation with VPM/FM synthesis)
Korg Nautilus 61 AT (Enhanced VPM/FM)
Acess virus Ti2 keyboard (FM synthesis + 20 special animated Synthmorph)
Roland Fantom 07/06/08 (zen-core, zenology, integra7, substractive FM)
Waldorf Blofeld keyboard (subtractive FM with wavetables, 2 stereo comb filters and samples instead of algorithms, 16 multi parts, 25 voices)
Waldorf Iridium desktop (grain synthesis, subtractive, basic FM, wavetables, comb filters)
Waldorf M 16Voice (wavetables, subtractive, basic FM)
Waldorf Kyra (4350 oscillators to use basic FM multi parts)
Studiologic Sledge 2 Black Edition (it's a blofeld with full controls)
MASCHINE Plus (with Absynth, Reaktor, Massive and FM-8)
Kurzweil PC4-7 (16-part workstation with VASP and FM 256-note polyphony)
ASM Hydrasynth (FM with Mutator oscillator, wavetables...)
Modal Argon 8 (wavetables, Va, substractive FM)
Elektron digitone keys( new generation FM synth)
Korg volca FM2 (FM with 6 operators, 32 algoritms, 6 voices polyphony)
In order not to expand the list further, I stop here because anything for that price makes more sense and I think that with all these we are already clear that OPsix SE is not as good as it may seem for its price, over time we could see it on the lists famous commercial failures.
Greetings and thanks for the video.
Wow! You certainly know your synthesizers 👍 Thank you for your list and comments. I'm sure some people will buy it but I think out of all the comments here onlu 1 suggests it's reasonably priced. We'll have to wait to see what happens when it really hits the market but Korg has already disappointed a lot of fans.
@@IanWaugh Yes, sometimes even money is not the problem, but the little technological benefit that a change receives.
IMO this approach to Korg products is a disaster, they even have their plugin versions, so they shot themselves in the foot, it won't do any good to play the victim when they say they don't sell anything, because people decide what to do with their money, to go to things from roland or yamaha, behringer analogues.
Someone at Korg is not doing things right, that's the only thing I can say, when I see all those machines with much more synthesizing power and interesting sound to create songs, I see the mistake clearly.
greatings 👍
@@inperfectsequence7840 Yes. I think some synth companies are being run by bean counters and marketeers who have no real connection to the music business.
Everybody complains about the price of the SEs. Firstly I believe Korg knows what their doing, otherwise they wouldn‘t be on the market for such a long time. A good keybed is expensive as such. And Korg has the fucking right to make their investment pay out. Thats capitalism and we all profit from it. Secondly the SEs will be cheaper one year from now. So come down, boys. And thirdly can‘t stand that whinging about prices anymore. I can‘t afford a Neve desk, because my abilitys in recording won’t pay me one. But I won‘t complain about Neve prices. And fourthly, maybe the SE has the correct price and the small ones maybe were the bargains……? I want them both, rather later then sooner…
Hi - Thanks for your Comment. Interesting take on the sutuation.
Maybe everyone complains about the price because everyone thinks it's extortionate. Everyone doesn't complain about the price of other synths 😊
Yes, Korg can charge what they like as I saidd in the video, It's capitalism but not everyone benefits from it 😢
The price will likely drop once the initial adopters have bought one 😊 but probably not by a massive amount.
I mean people are spending well over these prices for synths with less voices and less features.
Hi Everett - True. But that doesn't mean they - or the SEs - are fair value 😊
I mean, you can buy the small op six and a nice keyboard controller with aftertouch for way, way less. The price is reaching heavily given the original op six’s slow sales.
@@Jonathan_Doe_ You can! And probably get an Osmose in there, too 😊
Love Korg. But those prices for a re-boxed synth. No thanks. Make a new and better minalouge pro.
As well that’s why Behringer is making the sales.
The shop down the road had the ms-20fs. They never sold a one.
Hi - Yeah, disappointing. Does the Prologue not count as a Minilogue upgrade?
@@IanWaughno not at all for me. It’s not the same. In the sound or design. Such a waste.
@@IanWaughI may be wrong but I heard the prologue is banned in some countries due to power issues. I played it once. It just was not the same.
Yeh, can't beat Mr B's prices 😊 They also have some really good gear 👍
@@pheotus Fair enough. I know a few people who regard it as their favourite synth.
I agree they're seriously overpriced. I think they'll not sell very many until the price drops to nearer £1000 (realistically £1200 or so). I remember talking about this to Korg at Synthfest last year, asking what had happened to the Wavestate SE since it was first teased a couple of years before. I said I'd be willing to pay a grand for such an instrument, and still think that's about right.
Hi Andy - Yes, a few people have suggested £1000-1200 as a reasonable price that would shift them off the shelves. We'll have to see if Korg takes any of this on board although past experience suggests it's unlikely...
They should lower the three-octaves version's price too though, were Korg to discount the SE (which is far from unlikely, it happened with the KingKorg too, for example): a £1200 SE would call for a £600 Wavestate (which was the first iteration's - reasonable - price, by the way). Still, the SE really needs a bigger screen, price aside.
@@andy5178 It certainly needs something 😊
2600fs is collectors' item. like buying a Macallan whiskey barrel and waiting 10-20 years for cashin'......
Yes, but at least you can drink the whisky if it doesn't appreciate 😄
If OPSIX VST was 100 usd or eur then I would get it, otherwise I will be waiting for discount.
Yes, even Korg's software is over-priced...
Two words. Marketing department.
🤣 Yes! They'll be the death of the music business 😊
Im gonna buy a WavestationEX instead for 70bucks 🙂
Go for it! 👍
The 2600 M is a bargain
Hi Harold & Maude, 'bargain' is subjective 😊 but it's great that you think so 👍
You can always buy a Behringer but the quality would be lacking. You get what you pay for.@@IanWaugh
@@HaroldMaude Yes, the Behringer 2600 doesn't look as good but it's well made and 1/3rd of the price 😊It would be awesome if we always got what we pay for but, alas, that's always the case...
What made everyone cry is that they made and sold the cheap version. I have and am going to get the silver version. It’s going down in synth history as one of the greatest
Yes, but one of the greatest what? 😊
@@IanWaugh deepest , dopest, insanest magical synth. I'm going to make a few vids on my exploration, and I think 99 percent of the people that have had or tried the original, just don't get what it's about. You have to work to get the magic, and most people are lazy . And the biggest secret is the sequencer. that thing takes this to inter dimensional places.
@@InFamousProductions It's the same as the original with an aluminium case and a decent keyboard. But have fun and enjoy. It's great to see such enthusiasm. I look forward to your vids 👍
@@IanWaugh yes, but It's built like a pro machine! it will last for a long time and is cool as fuck!
@@InFamousProductions 👍
Scientists and creators are making the world nicer and cuter, marketers and politics are making the world a shame
Hi Bruno - Yes, I think you've got that exactly right 👍 😢
Wir leben in einer Rezession- was bitte ist denn in den letzen 2-3 Jahren preisstabil geblieben ? Korg muss genauso die Preise erhöhen , man kann doch nicht Preise aus den letzten Jahren mit aktuellen vergleichen - hier in Deutschland hat sich so mancher Preis verdoppelt - und der Brexit wird nicht verhindert haben, dass die Preise in England gestiegen sind. Ich rede nicht von der normalen Preissteigerung wegen der der landes-/ währungsüblichen Inflationsrate
Sure but the price is excessive for what it is, and not only my opinion... 😊
Hahahaha, exactly the same control panel maybe with an uprated soc computer.
That might add an extra £20 😂😂😂.
Least when someone like IK Multimedia does this the big model is still cheap as chips.
I’m starting to mellow to Behringer more and more 😁.
And curses to tiny screens 👍.
Yes, poor Mr B sometimes gets a bit of a bad rap but he does make exceedingly good cakes. Er, cheap synths... 😄
@@IanWaugh😂😂😂😂😂
I’ve fell in love with the Cat and Solina.
Luckily i found a decent solina vst on iOS for £4 😂.
No luck on the hunt for an iOS Cat, I maybe my first Behringer purchase will happen later in the year.
As for Korg, they’ve recently just almost doubled the prices for their iOS products, so it’s across the board for them.
@@TheSemtexCow Yeah. Maybe they think they're the new Moog 😱 😄
I would not buy this unit unless it was about half of the price and even then.
Hi - Yes, that seems to be the general feeling. We can only vote with our wallets. Korg doesn't seem to take note of anything else. Shame...
Too much copycat cynicism in the comments here. Received reactions, a bit of herd instinct?
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Korg had just brought out the 61 key "SE" versions in the first place. I think some of the negativity here is from guys that just buy each new box of tricks that comes on the market... and these SE versions don't give these GAS buyers the fix they crave?
Yes, they're very similar in some ways, but they're far superior in terms of quality and finish - and the keyboard is a class above the clattery originals.
Hi Peter - I can't speak for any of the commenters but essentially these are VSTs with a dedicated interface and it's easy to see how the stupid launch price highlighted that 🤔
I'm sure the SEs are great and it's good to know you rate them so highly 👍
They were lazy and it's stoopidly expensive. What advantage does it really offer over the 37 models? Noubt! Come on Korg, you are great innovators........come on!
It's mainly the keyboard...
@@IanWaugh It will be a dismal failure for them this time around I bet you
@@axs203 I guess at the price they won't have to sell many to make a profit 😊 It's just such a shame as Korg is capable of doing so much better.
Вот согласен что полное гавно Korg. Дорого и никчемно
I think you are in agreement 😊
@@IanWaughyes
@@REY-KOFF 👍😎
EVERYTHING is expensive these days. I can't see any professional synths being less than £1200 anytime soon
Hey Tobias - Yes indeed! Some are better value than others, I think 😊