Tascam 122mk2 and 122mk3 Capstan Motor Complete Rebuild

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  • Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
  • The full reconstruction of the Tascam direct drive capstan motor, with several unforeseen events.

Комментарии • 114

  • @JamesE707
    @JamesE707 Год назад +1

    Delicate work indeed.
    I must say that when I solder small and larger areas, I tend to 'wet' the said areas with good fast working flux with a Q-tip or a cocktail stick. Then load-up the soldering iron tip with solder, and let the solder 'run' into the job. I find that I'm 'in and out' of there so much faster than normal. I'm particularly mindful of this when soldering transistors, both throught-the-hole, and surface mount types.
    Peter, your patience teaches others that - this is the only way to increase the probability of success! Smashing or ruining stuff is the easy part, playing the careful watch maker is the harder part. ;o)

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      I wish I still had the eagle eyes of a watchmaker, indeed.
      Thanks again for your comments and suffering my musings. One thing about Q-Tips; if you're using that as a colloquial term for electronics swabs then great, but actual Q-Tips, and their generics, shouldn't ever touch a solder joint, as they instantly break down into synthetic micro fibres and contaminate the joint. Real swabs are okay, and then I follow up with foam wipes that don't shed anything, just prior to soldering. Cocktail sticks are perfect and essentially what I use. A lot of people use your method and I think it's fine, I use the method taught in the area I spend most of my work day. It's not 100% space shuttle worthy, but probably 80-90% of it, and I could get the rest of the way there if needed.
      Always a pleasure to hear from you, hope all is well.

  • @JamesE707
    @JamesE707 Год назад

    Watched it to the end Peter - another great job.

  • @chriseast6123
    @chriseast6123 Год назад

    One hour and fifteen minutes of precise patient engineering. Those Tascam decks are very rare in the UK, when one appears, it’s very expensive and probably need a lot of work to bring it up to standard.
    It’s always a pleasure to watch you work Peter, never boring. I like the quote about the “fear of effort”, that is oh so true. A new replacement board rebuild, that sounds interesting. My biggest wish is new replacement record/playback heads for many makes cassette decks. I have some nice Sony machines that are rendered almost useless due to severe head wear.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад +1

      That's interesting, I didn't realize that they were so rare there. What models were common in British broadcasting of the day? Many of our most collectable decks wouldn't last a week, much less 20 years, in an American radio studio, these machines were build like tanks because they had to be.
      I could possibly lap your Sony heads if sufficient material remains. Send me the worst one and I'll try, no charge.

    • @chriseast6123
      @chriseast6123 Год назад

      @@asbcustom I have replyed, but it seems RUclips have removed it, maybe because it had a link to a picture of the NEAL/Ferrograph studio deck in it. I did say "WOW" to you for trying to lap my bad Sony head, that is a very king offer. How and where do I send it??

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      I don't know, it works on my end, maybe try again. Find my e-mail address on the About page then contact me from there, I'll send my address.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      Oh no, I see now, I don't think we're allowed to send photos.

  • @Ockhamcool
    @Ockhamcool 7 месяцев назад

    Hi Peter, So about that capstan thrust figure you were looking for. Here it is and I quote Tascam "Thrust play 0.05 mm to 0.15 mm" This is from page 44 of the Tascam plain vanilla Model 122. Different assembly, but built along very similar mechanical principles, with the same thrust adjustment at the back, via a screw. The diagram shows a cross-section of the capstan assembly, and indicates the value I've quoted above for what they call "thrust play". I have a scan of the page for you, but RUclips won't let me post .jpg in this comments section.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  7 месяцев назад

      Thank you, yes that's correct (basically .002'-.006"), I have that original manual in print. The mk2 and mk3 are completely different though, they are direct drives and require greater end play but I don't have a factory spec for them. The spec for the Denon DR-M44 for example is .2-.4 (.008".016"). I've looked many times but have never come up with an actual number for the mk2 and mk3, but I'm satisfied with .010" as I can tell this one hasn't ever been monkey'd with.

  • @zambrano966
    @zambrano966 Год назад +1

    Excelente como siempre ASB Custom, cada vez que veo los videos de la TASCAM122MK2 me siento muy afortunado de tener una y bueno lo que mencionas el el video, estaré muy pendiente. Saludos.

  • @techobaz55
    @techobaz55 Год назад

    A very informative video !
    I have a couple of these units & looking differently now at the restoration.
    Cheers
    Baz

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      Thank you for watching. I'm curious, what do you see differently?

    • @techobaz55
      @techobaz55 Год назад

      @@asbcustom I haven't had one of these motors apart yet so looking at this i will know what I'm in for. I also have a 112 mk2 that stops after 2 secs, that one is really testing me out, all sensors etc ok, looks like could be cpu chip.
      Keep up the good vids !

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      Oh okay, that's a good thing then. Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it worked out.

  • @DrLithium
    @DrLithium Год назад

    53:57 Я избавляюсь от ямы в упорном подшипнике. Отсутствие соосности ямы и конца тонвала обычно приводит к лишним биениям. Плоская поверхность устраняет проблему. Часто это касается пластиковых деталей, снимаю немного материала до плоскости.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад

      That's an excellent idea! I didn't like the off-center dimple on this one but know it floats so accepted it. I'm going to turn a new flat thrust bearing and replace it. Do you happen to know the end play allowance for this model?

    • @DrLithium
      @DrLithium Год назад

      @@asbcustom Нет, не знаю.

  • @JamesE707
    @JamesE707 Год назад

    Apologies if I have mentioned this before.
    'Sanding down' capstans on a dual capstan deck is a big 'no no'. I once (out of frustration) allowed a 10 second polish both capstans on an old TC-161SD. It was a big mistake since the supply capstan relies on (effectively) some form of slip (I know we have our thoughts on this). When this does happen there is no effective tension between the two capstans and incredibly the tape between the two 'slacks' off and often was seen rising above the erase head! I did fix the issue later by re-polishing with 3000/5000/10,000 grit, but it was a learnign curve for me.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад +2

      "(I know we have our thoughts on this)" Thank you for mentioning that. Sometimes when it comes up, I can't help but picture in my mind, the mechanical engineer responsible for designing the first dual capstan tape drive explaining to his boss how he intends to reduce flutter by building slippage into the mechanism. "How much slippage?" the curious boss would naturally ask. "Well, we don't know that" the engineer would reply. "Why not?" asks the boss "You're an engineer, go calculate it". "We can't, there are too many variables, the tape thickness, length, modulus of elasticity, thermal expansion coefficients, lubricity deltas, variable pinch roller force, debris, and durometer, etc., etc. There's just no formula to apply." "Maybe you should go apply it in the Marketing Dept ..." the boss might say. :)
      Just ribbing you a bit, I know you take it all in fun.

    • @JamesE707
      @JamesE707 Год назад +1

      @@asbcustom No worries, I have a good sense of humour Peter! It's all a bit inconclusive how exactly a dual capstan works, but I still hold on to the idea (frowned upon in the foums I think?), that there is a delay of transmission forces as one capstan drives the other via a belt. BUT I'm sure not all systems are the same - direct drive for example. In a later version of the Sony TC-161SD (I have 4 of these), Sony employ a 'new' flywheel design, and a larger diameter capstan at the take up (not supply) side. I think they had trouble with previous version me thinks??? Unfortunely, I learnt the hard way. Such is life! ;o)

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  Год назад +1

      Well if it's frowned upon in the forums then it must be valid!
      It works by stretching the tape, I measured both capstan pulleys in a previous video then used an online calculator to determine the RPM Delta on that particular machine. It's nothing new, the concept goes way back. There was even an all terrain consumer vehicle once that used a 1 unit higher gear ratio in the front differential than the rear, so the front tires would spin slightly faster than the rears. It was unstoppable off-road but hard on transfer cases. I think the military employed a similar thing as well. Anyway, it's all enjoyable to learn about and put into practice.

    • @duncan-rmi
      @duncan-rmi Год назад

      it's explicitly explained in the manual for the revox b710 (dual direct drive) as being for the purpose of tensioning the tape; in the revox, it's not the finish so much as the different diameters of capstan that do the tensioning. luckily, they're difficult to mix up during servicing ops because the flywheels sit at different depths behind the deck plate.
      I have a 122-3 here too; nice machine but I had to replace the cheese gears a few years ago.

    • @JamesE707
      @JamesE707 Год назад +1

      @@duncan-rmi My fascination with the dual capstan system isn't why it works on systems where the capstans are at different speeds, or where one is larger with the other, my interest lies in how the Sony TC-161SD system works, as both flywheels run off the same drive belt, and are seemingly identical in radius, as are both capstans also identical. My theory on the tension that is set up between the capstans (for the TC-161SD) is that - there is a micro delay between the two. It's a physics property that I proposed in Tapeheads sometime ago.

  • @rcary
    @rcary 11 месяцев назад

    Very good video. I have a question about the coil wire break. I have a 238 which when i was doing the caps I noticed one of the copper wires was severed just where it curves over the edge of the board and disappears (component side). I did manage to bridge it with a spot of solder and the motor runs fine. I didnt realise that it was insulated copper so im wondering how i got the thing to solder as i did. I didnt want to fuss with it because it is very fiddly and delicate and it seems ok. I was wondering should i put something on that solder where i made the join? I dont have any fancy insulation liquid but was wondering what i could dab on it to prevent any future oxidation. I did this about 6 months ago. Or should i leave it be? How would I know if that joint fails in the future? Will the motor respond in an obvious way? Also, is it ok to use lithium grease on the capstan shaft and the thrust bearing? I also have a liquid silicone which i use mainly on the plastic components.. I know thats best kept away from the capstan because it can wander.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  11 месяцев назад

      I'm not sure what to tell you, every disturbance of that lead is one step closer to the undertaker, maybe leave well enough alone? Lithium grease is fine for the thrust side but too thick for the capstan bearings, it's worth it to buy the correct oil.

  • @JamesE707
    @JamesE707 Год назад

    A message to others out there: Another reason why sanding is 'chancy' on a take-up capstan - it is possible that one could etch an effective ultra-fine thread, and it's feasible that the tape may just begin to ride up, or attempt to, in short azimuth/track height issues?

  • @rcary
    @rcary 8 месяцев назад

    HI. had a question regarding the capstan and the flywheel magnet. Both my 122 mkii attract a paperclip if dangled on a thread by the capstan end that sticks out. I noticed this a week ago and have a plug in demag now. I did the tape bay area on both, but I'm still getting a bit of magnetic pull on the capstan. I looked at my 238 (same transport basically) and it doesn't have this issue. I noticed if I dangle the paperclip near the flywheel area too there is quite alot of magnetism around it. Is that normal? I know the 238 and 122 mkii have the magnet on the flywheel but could this travel to the end where the tape travels on it? And I'm wondering why the 238 isn't having this issue? I did identical rebuilds, except I did disassemble the 122s motor much more than the 238. Is there something I missed? 🤔 I just wasn't happy about my tape running over a magnetised capstan.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  8 месяцев назад

      Howdy Rick.
      The capstan shaft should not be magnetized as you correctly surmised. My guess is that is it was improperly degaussed in the past, and exceeds the ability of your current degausser to correct. I would first test my degausser to make certain it's functioning. Maybe try it on a screwdriver or paperclip, it can both magnatize, and demagnatize a part. If it cannot do either, there's a problem. The only ones I've found to work consistently well are the Han-D-Mag brand, the others are too weak for certain jobs.

  • @Ockhamcool
    @Ockhamcool 7 месяцев назад

    Hi Peter,
    Did you ever find the end play figure? Did you look in a 122 manual?

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  7 месяцев назад

      Not in writing but I have one in right now that I don't believe has ever been touched, I'll post the number after I measure it.
      Update: End play measures .010" and this one has the factory thread seal intact, so that should be a good number.

    • @Ockhamcool
      @Ockhamcool 7 месяцев назад

      See my post above about the figure I found in the Tascam 122 service manual. Looks like Tascam claims from .05 - .15mm which is .002 to .006. But that is for a 122, which is similar mechanically but not identical. So that's a little tighter than .010?
      @@asbcustom

  • @scanman84
    @scanman84 7 месяцев назад

    Do you recommend using only electrolytic caps and a film cap to replace those SMD caps. I'm about ready to place a order for the parts. Thank you!

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  7 месяцев назад

      That's how I do it, yes.

    • @rod.d
      @rod.d 4 месяца назад

      @@asbcustom do you happen to have a list of the caps that you used that you could share?

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  4 месяца назад +1

      @@rod.d
      Capstan PCB:
      3 - 10μf 16v
      1 - 1μf 50v
      1 - 4.7μf 35v (I use 50v)
      2 - 3.3μf 25v (I use 50v) bipolar
      1 - 1000pf Film cap on C2

    • @rod.d
      @rod.d 4 месяца назад

      @@asbcustom Thanks!!!

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  4 месяца назад

      @rod.d My pleasure.

  • @eduardogonzalez7896
    @eduardogonzalez7896 11 месяцев назад

    Good afternoon, sir. Let's see if you could help me with a Tascam 122MK3. First, I changed the capacitors to the capstan card and it kept turning very fast, and the capstan kept turning, then I mounted a new card from ebay and now it goes very slow. I would appreciate your help. They recommended me to you

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  11 месяцев назад

      Sure, I'll help you out. Contact me through the e-mail link on my "About" page and I'll send you the shipping address.

    • @eduardogonzalez7896
      @eduardogonzalez7896 11 месяцев назад

      thaks best regars @@asbcustom

  • @rcary
    @rcary 10 месяцев назад

    I'm doing my 122 tomorrow. The c7 cap isn't marked, just a silver top. Do you know what the rating for that cap is? I'm assuming it's the same as the 238 boards? Thanks.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  10 месяцев назад

      C7 should be the 4.7μ 35v.

    • @rcary
      @rcary 10 месяцев назад

      @@asbcustom Hi. Got the 2nd Tascam 122 mkii today. I'm having a bit of confusion reading the coils with the MM. My other board measured 13 on all 4 contact points, like in your video. My 2nd board is 14 on 3 of the points, but one coil is reading 1070 and no beep. Here's video I made of the confusion.
      ruclips.net/video/38IQxuEay1k/видео.htmlsi=FCIEflzszvdYwwZm

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  10 месяцев назад

      Rick, you're correct that it's a problem. I wonder if removing the cap in circuit with that coil and retesting, or even removing that coil from the circuit and retesting, might provide a clue. It may be a bad coil but I would isolate it before moving on.

    • @rcary
      @rcary 10 месяцев назад

      @@asbcustom Thanks for the reply. So you mean desolder the 2 wires that run from the coil and test the 2 wires out of circuit? And which cap are you referring to that i should remove? When i first turned on the unit the capstan was running ok. (no runaway) Then a couple of times it would not spin when i engaged the tape in switch. And a single "0" appeared on the digital counter. Power off would refresh the unit. Will that motor run on 3 coils?

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  10 месяцев назад

      I was suggesting that if you're getting anomalous readings in circuit, then try measuring out of circuit, however you choose to do it. Be gentile on those leads as always.

  • @mikeparkins4302
    @mikeparkins4302 7 месяцев назад

    Hi. What value UF & voltage is C2 please

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  7 месяцев назад

      Hello Mike, they are 1000pf 63v.

    • @mikeparkins4302
      @mikeparkins4302 7 месяцев назад

      Many Thanks

    • @mikeparkins4302
      @mikeparkins4302 7 месяцев назад

      Hi Peter, sorry to be a pain, but is there any particular type and make that’s best?

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  7 месяцев назад +1

      No problem. I think any film capacitor will do. I can't put my hands on mine just now or I'd include a part number, but I've used a couple different ones with equal success.

    • @mikeparkins4302
      @mikeparkins4302 6 месяцев назад

      Hi Peter. All good so far can you give details of the capstan bearing grease and oil for the bearing please. I have learned so much from your videos. Many thanks

  • @giir3211
    @giir3211 11 месяцев назад

    You do a great job. Your videos are very interesting. You do a lot of close caption videos. However it is hard to watch them. I wonder, you don't understand or you don't care? Your hands are such a mess. You lack the simplest hygiene. Please understand I respect your job, but to attract more viewers you have to take care of your hands , especially fingers.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  11 месяцев назад

      Closed Captions are generated by RUclips and may be turned on or off by the viewer, they have nothing to do with the content creator. I know about the hands, it's not lack of hygiene, I guarantee I wash them more every hour than you do yours, all day long. They are stained and beaten from the work I have done, and continue to do, for 52 years. Hard, honest work, that I'm proud of. Not all of us sit at a desk every day, but there are plenty of manicures on RUclips if that's what you need. Your comments are sincere, and I appreciate them, there just isn't anything I can do to accommodate you.

    • @giir3211
      @giir3211 11 месяцев назад

      @@asbcustom Sorry for my English I meant close captures not closed captions. I am of your age. I am tape enthusiast. Trust me. I watch a lot of videos on my free time. With all do respect have your nails done. Your subscribers will start growing. No offence.

    • @asbcustom
      @asbcustom  11 месяцев назад

      I don't get manicures, I don't get pedicures, I wear jeans and t-shirts, not shorts and long-sleeve hoodies. My hair is cut, not styled, and my shoes are thick leather and laced. I am what I am, I think for myself, and I indulge no banal clique.
      Your English is very good, it was probably just the spell checker, English is my second language also.
      No offense taken at all, comments are always welcomed here.

    • @rcary
      @rcary 8 месяцев назад

      If his hands are a distraction you must have some sort of vanity issues. I watch the videos for the detailed work and for tips and the love of the machines. Not once have i payed attention to his hands other than what he is doing with them. If he was modelling a dress or demonstrating how to apply lipstick I would expect some glossy red nail varnish. The work he is doing involves oils, grease and old dirty components, so who cares if the fingers are not "soy boy smooth" 😆