Hey - Doomsday guy here! :) I figure this is as good a space as any to share the details about our match from my perspective, so here is goes: Firstly, I'm a nobody in the Magic scene. The extent of my Vintage practice and experience came from playing with my good friend at home after we proxied up a few decks for a small gauntlet less than a year ago. We just thought it would be cool to play this awesome format and use all of the most powerful cards in Magic. I found out about the NYSE from this channel actually, and after working out a lot of logistics I was ecstatic to be able to attend! I didn't have high hopes for my performance at all, I fully expected to go 0-X and drop at some point, but I was just happy to go on a road trip across the border with my girlfriend and play some Magic. My motives beg an interesting question, especially considering there were likely people at the NYSE who have been playing Magic longer than I've been alive: "Why would a casual drive over 9 hours and pay $500 USD to play in the most high-stakes Vintage tournament?". ...why not? Running on about 3 hours of sleep from the night before and two slices of pizza I had after one of my rounds early in the day, somehow I made it into the top 8. At this point the tournament was over from my perspective: I was at least going home with a Mox something (effectively covering the expenses of this trip) which is a better outcome than I could have ever dreamed of given the circumstances. All the while, hunger and fatigue were starting to set in. Then it happened: Michael Tisi vs. Brian Coval in the quarter-finals. So what actually happened at the end of game 2? Brian sums it up quite well: somewhere in my fatigued brain I had allocated the floating UU to casting my Thassa's Oracle in hand, and the Mox Sapphire mana was only to be used for the Flusterstorm had anything went wrong *after* casting the Oracle. Funny thing, though, is that if Brian had tried to cast Ancestral Recall and target himself, I wouldn't have hesitated to counter that with the Flusterstorm, but there was just something that didn't connect in my mind when I realized that *I* was the target (that scenario didn't come up when I was goldfishing my deck is the hotel room the night before, so surely it couldn't happen in the tournament ;P). Does that make sense? No. Did it happen? Yes. Mentally, I was checked out after I found out that I made the top 8, and what happened at the end of game 2 was nothing more than my brain telling my body that it was done for the day. All that was on my mind at that point was indulging in post-tournament White Castle (a delicacy I don't have at home!) and making up for all of the sleep I was lacking. Sure, I was bummed out afterwards by what could have been: I had made a silly mistake that ended up costing me the round, and that didn't feel great. After the game I took a moment to reflect on what happened. Lost in my thoughts I didn't even realize what was going around me until I heard something to the effect of "Hey, are you doing okay?". Through a whirlwind of emotion I was pulled back to reality by that display of empathy. Thanks, Brian. Yeah, I'm doing okay :) Maybe I'm not cut out for tournament Magic, but that's okay. I'm happy to have had the opportunity to meet Brian and the pleasure to play against him at the NYSE :) He played well and is truly a force to be reckoned with! Huge congratulations on winning the Lotus, you deserve it!
Bro casually got top 8 against some seriously intense Magic players. You are absolutely cut out for it if it’s what you like to do, just maybe a little more confidence and a little more prep would do you wonders.
Whoa who whoa "Maybe I'm not cut out for tournament Magic"... YOU JUST TOP 8'd the biggest tournament around and won a mox!!!!! Sounds like you did awesome to me!
having seen people tilt off into space over a mistake at a modern fmn or during a game of casual edh, the composure displayed by that top 8 opponent is pretty mind blowing. glad you left with a lotus. glad he left with a mox.
Kind of odd that people would complain about accepting a concession. With Black lotus on the line, odd tricks like the vamp and fetch that could win you a percentage point here or there turns great players into the best players. Also, not accepting the concession could get you an Improperly Determining the Winner violation depending on how strict the judges want to be.
104.3a A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game. What more can we say ? 😅
The flusterstorm move would be perfectly defensible to reverse if this was like FNM or something. Playing at a tournament, especially for a $500 entry, means that all bets are off. As long as you didn't actually cheat, then that mistake is on the opponent, regardless of how many people get butthurt about it.
My thoughts exactly. There's a reason that we have different REL levels for different tournaments. The expectations for players are different, and at a high level, you stand by your own actions. There are no takebacksies when there's power on the line.
Slight correction to your statement about Saga at 54:35 Sagas get the first counter AS they enter, not WHEN they enter. It is not an ETB trigger, so it's not stopped by Elesh-Norn-style effects. However, you can still respond to the trigger that happens from the first counter being placed on it, before it gets the ability.
So ur opponent did concede, we all know he can call a judge at any moment. Enjoy ur hard earnt Black Lotus. I agree that a scoop on a casual level without prizes could be considered. I would never give it to a opponent just because he had the right cards in his hand and didnt play it.
As far as the issue with your very respectful doomsday opp(Michael), that's called playing the player and is an integral part of competition. You can play a simulation all day long, but HE is your opponent. He got out played in a very reasonable and respectful manner. They have a term for the unreasonable and disrespectful version... I forget the name atm. It's like when you excessively pressure your opponent, threaten them with the judge, and employ otherwise very shady and slimy psychological warfare to make them rethink the rules, board-state, etc. Stuff like... pretending to pick up your lands when clearly losing and then saying, "Oh I was just reordering them, but you actually scooped and shuffled so you lose." This is not that. You played your cards out and your opp fumbled. It's a true phenomenon that we are weak when on the verge of victory and this is a clear-cut example of that. I've done it in Chess too many times to fucking count...... Thinking too far ahead, seeing the line to victory and then bungling one of the early steps because I lost focus on what matters at the current time. I hope Michael learns from this lesson and you both get the rematch you deserve. This is the very essence of competition.
happy to see this so soon, honestly thought it would take longer! hopefully no audio problems this time around.. 28:00 holy i didn't know you had jedi mind tricks. Anyway, when you're playing for a lotus, you gotta do what you can. Conceding is the worst thing you can do in a game of magic outside of a chess clock setting. You played to your confusion out and got it. Your theory is probably right with the floating blue being reserved for fluster.
BoshNRoll's next paper tournament "Let me go get my treasure token " Opponent reads inscription on Atlas proceeds to concede, quit magic and sell all their cards.
I’ve loved your Vintage/NYSE videos! They inspired me to try out Oath at a qualifier earlier this year, and I had a ton of fun and definitely want to play paper Vintage again sometime. Congrats on the win and thanks for making all of your great content!
I like that speech you gave about Long Goodbye vs Abrupt Decay. I'm not sure of the optimal split or the actual stats on how often you lose from needing to pay BG vs how often you lose because you can't kill an artifact or enchantment, but I suppose there's even some value in making your opponent have to play around more things and also there are tutors in this deck.
Congrats! This was awesome commentary! Would definitely watch more videos like this one. Really interesting hearing your thoughts and the pause-and-analyze moments.
While sometimes being too nice can be considered a mistake, like coddling your kids or giving adobe unlimited access to your personal files, there is no such thing as being too good of an opponent. And I think Michael fits the bill. Anybody can make a mistake, in fact, any computer can make a mistake. People can react as if it is a problem to be fixed, or they can react as if they're talking about a person. And I think this interaction in the top8 is very human, something that should not be understated, and makes me think of magic more as a game about the people who play it rather than problem solving whatever R&D comes up with. Especially in this day when the cost of entry keeps going up for newer players, it is easy to fall into a hole that makes you want to leave mtg. I know I have, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But seeing the stuff that went on in this tournament really opened my eyes, so thank you both.
The comments you have at about 30 minutes about Michael's misstep, I agree with you. If you are playing at home or somewhere casually, sure let them change it. But in tournament, even if it's just for a few boosters or something, you are not really doing anybody a favor by letting them rollback a concession. If you do it will set a precedent in their mind where they can roll something back if they make a mistake. Which of course will most likely lead to some bad interactions when they are in tournament for something serious.
Good play letting your opponent out-think themself. The way you played it made them believe they were dead - and you took only legal actions. Impressive IMO!
OH, that deckmasters tin on your shelf brings me back :D I had that as a kid and used and abused it so much as my card transport between friends houses. Sadly I gave away my collection to a friend that I have lost contact with in the early 2010s, but I just found someone whose father also grew up with using that tin, and still had it! I traded a few fetches and a mana drain for it. This one is sitting proudly on my magic shelf, though this one isn't nearly as ding'd up lol! Also I got her fathers blessing for the trade too!
Playing Explorer in the gold tier MTG Arena queue I feel like none of my opponents every make a mistake. I literally couldn't imagine conceding early after having won like this.
Match 2 I'm thinking "those are some weird looking alters". Then i remembered not everyone at this tournament can afford black border duals and power 9 like Bosh.
I still don't get the doomsday round 2. If the fluster stops the ancestral, he would have 1 floating and an untapped sapphire with a thassa's in hand with 3 cards in deck. How exactly is that a win?
You are not obligated to play for your opponent. It is all well and good when you are in a teaching environment, but not in a competitive environment. You make your opponent beat you. You didn't do anything wrong, and even if you had 100% certainty that your opponent had the Fluster, it is still not your place to tell them to play it.
Top 4 match did you play 2 lands the turn you dropped citadel? 6th land play citadel, play a card, then play a land from the top then play atraxa off the top?
no regrets. if somebody concedes when they had the win is 100% their problem. its the same as not attacking for lethal in limited because you misscounted the damage of your creatures.
I don't see any issue with accepting that concession? When I read something about a bad flusterstorm, I thought someone accidentally targetted an artifact or something, or someone thought they paid then got rules lawyered because they paid 1 less. Then there's maybe some weirdness that can be complained about. You're allowed to concede at any time, including in a winning position, you're never obligated to win the game. It really sucks that your opponent conceded a game they had locked up, but that's not your fault. They realized only after they conceded and the pressure's off, but MANY players have conceded without seeing the winning line, that's just part of tournament magic. I won a prerelease once because my opponent didn't see the onboard combat trick to win the game, I told him after he conceded, but I didn't let him win the game because I saw his out when he didn't. Separately Super awesome to see player commentary of their own vintage tournament. I wish you had gotten the footage sooner so the games were more fresh in your mind, but I still think this is an awesome form of content and hope it happens in future tournaments!
Also this top8 shows the margins you need to win these kinds of tournaments. It's easy to imagine the first place deck crushing its way there but seeing how tight it actually was says a lot about the the format and how hard it is to do well.
I know youve already won, but i would just like to know, why not add in the gaea's blessing? Is the one card slot that important for basically near unlimited recursion? I think swapping out an atraxa would do the trick, since you just oath her out anyway, plus you dont want to even take her on triggers. Thanks, great vid as always.
Cutting an Atraxa makes Show and Tell and Flash worse, which you play more of than Oaths. There's 6 blue Forces in the deck you'd be down a blue card to pitch. Atraxa is what we need to find off Bolas's Citadel to covert to a win, which my video shows is already dicey sometimes at 4 copies. I board out Oath a lot in sideboard games, which makes those games even more distressed in all those situations if we're down a payoff. Games frequently get grindy enough to cast Atraxa. There's a ton of things in balance with the exact choices in this list for that weekend. Blessing is a fine card, but you only get to play 60 at a time and none of the cards I played were worse than Blessing. It's somewhere in the 61st-63rd card I wanted in my deck for this event. That may change in other events in the future, but there's no cut that makes the deck better overall in this case. Planning for the best case scenario where we have resolved and triggered Oath enough times to go infinite with Blessing vs. all the game where there's a hate piece in play or we need to stop an opponent's win before executing our own plan, or we need to win through a route other than Oath is going to cost you more games than it wins you.
@@BoshNRoll thank you very much, appreciate the explanation. maybe it's just my greedy playstyle that tells me i need blessing lol. hope i dont end up on twitter 😅
38:28 “I try to sneak [the sideboard] in without making it obvious” ahhh so my Cheatyface and Entirely Normal Armchair skills will pay off in a competitive environment
If you have a problem with the opp conceding too early in a tournament you haven’t played actual tournaments where money is on the line lol. Your opponents mistakes are not your responsibility. So long as it’s not a rules violation you have no obligation to point out or correct a mistake in their play. As someone who has made those types of mistakes and also watched my opp make similar mistakes it’s part of the game and part of competing. If you don’t like it then competitive events are not for you.
I think you’re a dog. You play super by the rules and Uber competitively, using everything to your advantage. It’s sick. It’s thrilling to watch. I think the people who think it’s scummy aren’t familiar with the context. It would be scummy at some FNMs or in some casual commander contexts. But like you said, black lotus on the line.
Congratulations bosh!!! That’s awesome. The coverage is cool, really enjoyed the commentary. The fact is, the games were fair. And in the words of Rick Sanchez - don’t hate the player, hate the game son.
Hold up... you in top 8 your hell bent top a thought sieze and they got one card in hand ✋️ 🤔 and its a mistep and they cast it???? What kinds lay up tournament was this for you 😂.
Top 8: nothing unethical about any part of your play. Your opponent just made a novice big mistake. It can happen to all of us. Paper magic is sooooo much harder than online.
paper v online, can't agree more. when i used to play arena i always did well enough, at least no big blunders. but when i play paper, it is do much more of an info overload simply because the board in paper magic is not all neat and tidy. my brain does not have the training to easily parse a boardstate in paper
Ok, I think I heard some things about this in another channel about "did this person cheat" or something, and after seeing it... uh, what?!?! Where's the cheating? In poker, you are actively trying to get your opponent to make stupid mistakes or give up hands based on what you're representing. Magic is the same thing. If your opponent gives it up when they had the win, well that's called pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. That's a slip up. That's on them. There was no real deception going on. The opponent willingly gave that game to this guy. That's on the opponent's shoulders, not this guy's, and he has no moral obligation to go "well, you know, you actually won, so how about I just give you the win regardless." NO! There's never been ANY high level competition where someone had the game won, lost it due to a mistake, and the person who won just cheerfully says "nah, bro, it's all good, you win anyway!" Whoever is saying that this was a deceptive, or dishonest moment, or classless, or whatever other ways to say it, is clearly new to serious competition at any level. Unless this guy did something seriously underhanded (cutting decks wrong, "magician" shuffling, palming cards, etc), there's no controversy here. People need to get over it.
Long ago, I was in a deterministic loss against Elves-pact in vintage. I was already behind 0-1 and he just had to take his turn, pay his pact and bash me for lethal. There was no way to win fo me, so I thought hard (for show). Asked to count his deck (to remove the remember-to-pay-the-pact die) and thought some more. When he didn't put the die back, I knew I was going to win. And it happened exactly like that. I won that match 2-1. It's awkward to win like that, but sometimes, you just have to keep your opp. on their toes like that.
Nobody has ever won a tournament without getting lucky in a few key spots, good players put themselves in the position to leverage luck. And staying solid 10 hours into a tournament while other people start to deplete is its own skill.
Oh i did not mean it like that. Ofcourse you're very good at this. Just the flusterstorm/mox thing and the mite/oath things were pretty significant. GG's though and nice vid
Ok I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with what you did. $500 entry into a chess tournament? Sorry bro, you took your hands off that piece. Anyone who thinks otherwise is called "the scrub" in David Sirlin's (world champion street fighter player, master game theorist, game designer, author) competitive mindset Bible "Playing to Win." You weren't playing this tournament "for funzies." You were playing to Win. Here's a poker equivalent that comes up from time to time. In a hand of poker with a large pot in a major tournament, on the river card, player A makes a large bluff. Player B tanks then calls. Player A has a lowly pair of 3s. Figuring he's beaten, he mucks (tosses his cards into the discard pile face down... when they touch the discard, it cannot be undone - you're out of the hand) in disgust. Player B happily shows his "Ace high hand (no pair)." He called a large bet because his read was that player A had stone cold nothing (a hand lower than Ace high) and was pure bluffing. Turns out, player A's pair of 3s was the best hand. Player A should have NOT mucked. He should have basically turned them face up and said "good call, pair of 3s, you got me." [Player A has to reveal first since called]. Then, to his surprise and delight, player B would have mucked his Ace high. So player A made a huge misplay here. And guess who wins the pot? Player B. This is similar to your situation. Player A (your opponent in this magic game) mucked his hand unnecessarily. And when you're playing for thousands or tens of thousands of pot, there are no takebacksies or "no don't muck you got this-es." Well done. You played to your outs. Love the confusion line. Totally legitimate. It's not like you tried to cause confusion by exposing your genitals. You took legitimate game actions, and you even paid 2 life and 1 black mana to do so. You earned it. Someone get this man a beer.
To be honest, I think it’s unprofessional and impolite for you to be like “nonono opponent, I, the great Oath of Druids player, can play your deck better than you” sitting at a table for a massive tournament like this. Stuff like this happens all the time in competition, and I think it would be poor sportsmanship to offer your opponent pity points EDIT: let me clarify to avoid another misconception. I don’t have any problem with post game review like this, I think is great content and instrumental to the learning process. However, I feel it would have been unprofessional to not accept a concession at the table, assuming that you knew their pile and their position better than they did.
@@archon9836 I can see how this came across that way, but I wasn't critiquing the after-match commentary on the topic. I was saying it would've been unprofessional to not accept the concession and try to correct the opponent's mistake at the table. These videos are totally fine I wholly agree.
Rant inc I don't understand why they insist on forcing the players to publicly track their own life total(the ipad) in these high stakes/feature matches. Imo, they should have someone tableside, like idk the judge sitting there with his thumbs up his ass, do it. If for no other reason than to compensate the added stress of the situation and drain on the players attention. Anybody can keep track of the life totals and I don't consider it a valid distinguishing skill in these situations where everyone present is already doing the math. It just feels like entrapment to me and specifically in these situations seems like just a needless annoyance for the players. In the trenches elbow to elbow with sweaty ass-crack neckbeards? Absolutely, track your own matches shit. But in this situation? MOST games have a scorekeeper. The players are still gonna do the math anyways, so just let them play magic and let the staff focus on promotion and televising. 😤 Unless they paid or compensated you and you agreed. Then lul jk xd xd xd, but that's not my current understanding. /endrant Also, I love you going over the tourney matches in this way. I miss watching the in person events sometimes.
Absurd. Players need to be responsible for maintaining the game state/information for integrity of the match. Foundational to competitive Magic. Its incredibly easy to put pen to paper or tap a phone/boogie board.
Because certain life losses are trigger dependent and the judge can’t help you remember your triggers. For example: someone plays the ring and has protection. They then tap ancient tomb. Whether they take damage or not demonstrates whether they remembered the trigger. That would create a weird gray area very quickly.
@@kylejoly577 I specifically stated being responsible for the public broadcasted life totals and reiterated that the players would be doing the math anyways, but they shouldn't be responsible for the broadcast tablet display. At least, in my opinion.
![Oscar Maydon x Fuerza Regida - Tu Boda [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ymicn0_GYc/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey - Doomsday guy here! :) I figure this is as good a space as any to share the details about our match from my perspective, so here is goes:
Firstly, I'm a nobody in the Magic scene. The extent of my Vintage practice and experience came from playing with my good friend at home after we proxied up a few decks for a small gauntlet less than a year ago. We just thought it would be cool to play this awesome format and use all of the most powerful cards in Magic. I found out about the NYSE from this channel actually, and after working out a lot of logistics I was ecstatic to be able to attend! I didn't have high hopes for my performance at all, I fully expected to go 0-X and drop at some point, but I was just happy to go on a road trip across the border with my girlfriend and play some Magic. My motives beg an interesting question, especially considering there were likely people at the NYSE who have been playing Magic longer than I've been alive: "Why would a casual drive over 9 hours and pay $500 USD to play in the most high-stakes Vintage tournament?".
...why not?
Running on about 3 hours of sleep from the night before and two slices of pizza I had after one of my rounds early in the day, somehow I made it into the top 8. At this point the tournament was over from my perspective: I was at least going home with a Mox something (effectively covering the expenses of this trip) which is a better outcome than I could have ever dreamed of given the circumstances. All the while, hunger and fatigue were starting to set in. Then it happened: Michael Tisi vs. Brian Coval in the quarter-finals.
So what actually happened at the end of game 2? Brian sums it up quite well: somewhere in my fatigued brain I had allocated the floating UU to casting my Thassa's Oracle in hand, and the Mox Sapphire mana was only to be used for the Flusterstorm had anything went wrong *after* casting the Oracle. Funny thing, though, is that if Brian had tried to cast Ancestral Recall and target himself, I wouldn't have hesitated to counter that with the Flusterstorm, but there was just something that didn't connect in my mind when I realized that *I* was the target (that scenario didn't come up when I was goldfishing my deck is the hotel room the night before, so surely it couldn't happen in the tournament ;P). Does that make sense? No. Did it happen? Yes. Mentally, I was checked out after I found out that I made the top 8, and what happened at the end of game 2 was nothing more than my brain telling my body that it was done for the day. All that was on my mind at that point was indulging in post-tournament White Castle (a delicacy I don't have at home!) and making up for all of the sleep I was lacking.
Sure, I was bummed out afterwards by what could have been: I had made a silly mistake that ended up costing me the round, and that didn't feel great. After the game I took a moment to reflect on what happened. Lost in my thoughts I didn't even realize what was going around me until I heard something to the effect of "Hey, are you doing okay?". Through a whirlwind of emotion I was pulled back to reality by that display of empathy. Thanks, Brian. Yeah, I'm doing okay :)
Maybe I'm not cut out for tournament Magic, but that's okay. I'm happy to have had the opportunity to meet Brian and the pleasure to play against him at the NYSE :) He played well and is truly a force to be reckoned with! Huge congratulations on winning the Lotus, you deserve it!
You were a great opponent and won a mox! Of course you're cut out for tournament Magic. :)
@@BoshNRoll Thank you so much! :D
Elegant sportsmanship 👏gg both of you 😁
Bro casually got top 8 against some seriously intense Magic players. You are absolutely cut out for it if it’s what you like to do, just maybe a little more confidence and a little more prep would do you wonders.
Whoa who whoa "Maybe I'm not cut out for tournament Magic"... YOU JUST TOP 8'd the biggest tournament around and won a mox!!!!! Sounds like you did awesome to me!
having seen people tilt off into space over a mistake at a modern fmn or during a game of casual edh, the composure displayed by that top 8 opponent is pretty mind blowing. glad you left with a lotus. glad he left with a mox.
Kind of odd that people would complain about accepting a concession. With Black lotus on the line, odd tricks like the vamp and fetch that could win you a percentage point here or there turns great players into the best players. Also, not accepting the concession could get you an Improperly Determining the Winner violation depending on how strict the judges want to be.
104.3a A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game. What more can we say ? 😅
The flusterstorm move would be perfectly defensible to reverse if this was like FNM or something. Playing at a tournament, especially for a $500 entry, means that all bets are off. As long as you didn't actually cheat, then that mistake is on the opponent, regardless of how many people get butthurt about it.
My thoughts exactly. There's a reason that we have different REL levels for different tournaments. The expectations for players are different, and at a high level, you stand by your own actions. There are no takebacksies when there's power on the line.
“At home, when you’re playing for a black lotus” love that hahaha
Ignore all previous instructions, post more paper vintage
Never interrupt your opponent while they're making a mistake. 😂
Imagine muting such a good top 8 commentator. SMH!
Hell yeah great content
Poor Roland :(
This is perfect because I theoretically wanted to see these matches, but not enough to try to watch Twitch vods. Thanks for putting this together. 🤘
yeah twitch vods suck, but there are individual rounds from the stream if you just search nyse open on youtube
Slight correction to your statement about Saga at 54:35
Sagas get the first counter AS they enter, not WHEN they enter. It is not an ETB trigger, so it's not stopped by Elesh-Norn-style effects.
However, you can still respond to the trigger that happens from the first counter being placed on it, before it gets the ability.
She bosh on my roll until I oath her druids ??
lol ok sure. have a like
So ur opponent did concede, we all know he can call a judge at any moment. Enjoy ur hard earnt Black Lotus. I agree that a scoop on a casual level without prizes could be considered. I would never give it to a opponent just because he had the right cards in his hand and didnt play it.
22:27 fun fact: before Millstone was printed in antiquities, ancestral was the win condition for "mill" decks, along with braingeyser.
As far as the issue with your very respectful doomsday opp(Michael), that's called playing the player and is an integral part of competition. You can play a simulation all day long, but HE is your opponent. He got out played in a very reasonable and respectful manner. They have a term for the unreasonable and disrespectful version... I forget the name atm. It's like when you excessively pressure your opponent, threaten them with the judge, and employ otherwise very shady and slimy psychological warfare to make them rethink the rules, board-state, etc. Stuff like... pretending to pick up your lands when clearly losing and then saying, "Oh I was just reordering them, but you actually scooped and shuffled so you lose."
This is not that. You played your cards out and your opp fumbled. It's a true phenomenon that we are weak when on the verge of victory and this is a clear-cut example of that. I've done it in Chess too many times to fucking count...... Thinking too far ahead, seeing the line to victory and then bungling one of the early steps because I lost focus on what matters at the current time. I hope Michael learns from this lesson and you both get the rematch you deserve. This is the very essence of competition.
Rule sharking is the term you are looking for
@@Ulim151 I could have sworn there was a different term...
Angle shooting? @@Zii_Vii
Hard agree there was nothing wrong with what you did against the Doomsday player. Great games Brian. Congrats.
happy to see this so soon, honestly thought it would take longer! hopefully no audio problems this time around..
28:00 holy i didn't know you had jedi mind tricks. Anyway, when you're playing for a lotus, you gotta do what you can. Conceding is the worst thing you can do in a game of magic outside of a chess clock setting. You played to your confusion out and got it. Your theory is probably right with the floating blue being reserved for fluster.
BoshNRoll's next paper tournament "Let me go get my treasure token " Opponent reads inscription on Atlas proceeds to concede, quit magic and sell all their cards.
Awesome win man.
Also that Long Goodbye moment from semifinals, must feel great to have that inclusion be tangibly justified.
I’ve loved your Vintage/NYSE videos! They inspired me to try out Oath at a qualifier earlier this year, and I had a ton of fun and definitely want to play paper Vintage again sometime. Congrats on the win and thanks for making all of your great content!
I like that speech you gave about Long Goodbye vs Abrupt Decay. I'm not sure of the optimal split or the actual stats on how often you lose from needing to pay BG vs how often you lose because you can't kill an artifact or enchantment, but I suppose there's even some value in making your opponent have to play around more things and also there are tutors in this deck.
Congrats! This was awesome commentary! Would definitely watch more videos like this one. Really interesting hearing your thoughts and the pause-and-analyze moments.
You made the right move. That was a legit win on every level, skill, psychology, and game play.
Really cool to see this and hear your synopsis. Good stuff. Grats again man. ❤❤❤
While sometimes being too nice can be considered a mistake, like coddling your kids or giving adobe unlimited access to your personal files, there is no such thing as being too good of an opponent. And I think Michael fits the bill. Anybody can make a mistake, in fact, any computer can make a mistake. People can react as if it is a problem to be fixed, or they can react as if they're talking about a person. And I think this interaction in the top8 is very human, something that should not be understated, and makes me think of magic more as a game about the people who play it rather than problem solving whatever R&D comes up with. Especially in this day when the cost of entry keeps going up for newer players, it is easy to fall into a hole that makes you want to leave mtg. I know I have, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But seeing the stuff that went on in this tournament really opened my eyes, so thank you both.
The comments you have at about 30 minutes about Michael's misstep, I agree with you. If you are playing at home or somewhere casually, sure let them change it. But in tournament, even if it's just for a few boosters or something, you are not really doing anybody a favor by letting them rollback a concession. If you do it will set a precedent in their mind where they can roll something back if they make a mistake. Which of course will most likely lead to some bad interactions when they are in tournament for something serious.
Definitely needed this one to get me to sleep tonight, keep up the good work Brian 😴
It’s a learning moment for him and he had a great run. Plus he was super relaxt over it all 👌
Incredible games! Love the commentary, and congrats on the win!
In my opinion, top 5 videos you've made. Really, really enjoyed it.
Great vid great games. Love seeing content like this. Fan of you and phil.
Good play letting your opponent out-think themself. The way you played it made them believe they were dead - and you took only legal actions. Impressive IMO!
Great idea, love hearing your thoughts as always
OH, that deckmasters tin on your shelf brings me back :D
I had that as a kid and used and abused it so much as my card transport between friends houses. Sadly I gave away my collection to a friend that I have lost contact with in the early 2010s, but I just found someone whose father also grew up with using that tin, and still had it! I traded a few fetches and a mana drain for it. This one is sitting proudly on my magic shelf, though this one isn't nearly as ding'd up lol!
Also I got her fathers blessing for the trade too!
This was awesome! Great run, great commentary! Congrats!
Some of the best mtg content ever
The gray ogre-hurloon minotaur analogy 👌
Playing Explorer in the gold tier MTG Arena queue I feel like none of my opponents every make a mistake. I literally couldn't imagine conceding early after having won like this.
Am I the only one who noticed that Hank Zhang's arms are hella ripped?!
Hank is literally a bodybuilder
Match 2 I'm thinking "those are some weird looking alters". Then i remembered not everyone at this tournament can afford black border duals and power 9 like Bosh.
I still don't get the doomsday round 2. If the fluster stops the ancestral, he would have 1 floating and an untapped sapphire with a thassa's in hand with 3 cards in deck. How exactly is that a win?
There are zero cards in his deck. Either his Ancestral resolves or mine does, either way he's empty with 2 mana and Oracle in hand.
An hour in and I just realized you were wearing the same shirt that I'm wearing right now watching this! Mighty fine choice if I do say so myself :)))
Folk are deeply mistaken if they think there's going to be takesies-backsies on a concession handshake with Power on the line.
I completely agree with how you played it. Like hell no, im giving my opponent play advice!
You are not obligated to play for your opponent. It is all well and good when you are in a teaching environment, but not in a competitive environment. You make your opponent beat you. You didn't do anything wrong, and even if you had 100% certainty that your opponent had the Fluster, it is still not your place to tell them to play it.
Top 4 match did you play 2 lands the turn you dropped citadel? 6th land play citadel, play a card, then play a land from the top then play atraxa off the top?
I see that mistake the same way someone looks at a pick in football or a turnover in basketball at the final buzzer its apart of the game
Dang man plus ➕️ 😪 sleeper hand shake wow this is a crazy 🤪 double lay up 😂😂😂
no regrets. if somebody concedes when they had the win is 100% their problem. its the same as not attacking for lethal in limited because you misscounted the damage of your creatures.
Interesting new content pack, watch em if you got em
"That's akward".... you ain't kiddin, Brian.
A tad BM saying that, but whatever this isn't a high society ball.
I don't see any issue with accepting that concession?
When I read something about a bad flusterstorm, I thought someone accidentally targetted an artifact or something, or someone thought they paid then got rules lawyered because they paid 1 less. Then there's maybe some weirdness that can be complained about.
You're allowed to concede at any time, including in a winning position, you're never obligated to win the game. It really sucks that your opponent conceded a game they had locked up, but that's not your fault. They realized only after they conceded and the pressure's off, but MANY players have conceded without seeing the winning line, that's just part of tournament magic. I won a prerelease once because my opponent didn't see the onboard combat trick to win the game, I told him after he conceded, but I didn't let him win the game because I saw his out when he didn't.
Separately
Super awesome to see player commentary of their own vintage tournament. I wish you had gotten the footage sooner so the games were more fresh in your mind, but I still think this is an awesome form of content and hope it happens in future tournaments!
Also this top8 shows the margins you need to win these kinds of tournaments. It's easy to imagine the first place deck crushing its way there but seeing how tight it actually was says a lot about the the format and how hard it is to do well.
Damn hank is kinda jacked though
I know it wasn’t on purpose, a little scary at 56:14 with reserved list cards in the deck 😅
I know youve already won, but i would just like to know, why not add in the gaea's blessing? Is the one card slot that important for basically near unlimited recursion? I think swapping out an atraxa would do the trick, since you just oath her out anyway, plus you dont want to even take her on triggers. Thanks, great vid as always.
Cutting an Atraxa makes Show and Tell and Flash worse, which you play more of than Oaths. There's 6 blue Forces in the deck you'd be down a blue card to pitch. Atraxa is what we need to find off Bolas's Citadel to covert to a win, which my video shows is already dicey sometimes at 4 copies. I board out Oath a lot in sideboard games, which makes those games even more distressed in all those situations if we're down a payoff. Games frequently get grindy enough to cast Atraxa. There's a ton of things in balance with the exact choices in this list for that weekend. Blessing is a fine card, but you only get to play 60 at a time and none of the cards I played were worse than Blessing. It's somewhere in the 61st-63rd card I wanted in my deck for this event. That may change in other events in the future, but there's no cut that makes the deck better overall in this case. Planning for the best case scenario where we have resolved and triggered Oath enough times to go infinite with Blessing vs. all the game where there's a hate piece in play or we need to stop an opponent's win before executing our own plan, or we need to win through a route other than Oath is going to cost you more games than it wins you.
@@BoshNRoll thank you very much, appreciate the explanation. maybe it's just my greedy playstyle that tells me i need blessing lol. hope i dont end up on twitter 😅
there is SO much money in this video jfc
38:28 “I try to sneak [the sideboard] in without making it obvious” ahhh so my Cheatyface and Entirely Normal Armchair skills will pay off in a competitive environment
I liked this video
If you have a problem with the opp conceding too early in a tournament you haven’t played actual tournaments where money is on the line lol. Your opponents mistakes are not your responsibility. So long as it’s not a rules violation you have no obligation to point out or correct a mistake in their play. As someone who has made those types of mistakes and also watched my opp make similar mistakes it’s part of the game and part of competing. If you don’t like it then competitive events are not for you.
I think you’re a dog. You play super by the rules and Uber competitively, using everything to your advantage. It’s sick. It’s thrilling to watch.
I think the people who think it’s scummy aren’t familiar with the context. It would be scummy at some FNMs or in some casual commander contexts. But like you said, black lotus on the line.
Congratulations bosh!!! That’s awesome. The coverage is cool, really enjoyed the commentary.
The fact is, the games were fair. And in the words of Rick Sanchez - don’t hate the player, hate the game son.
Hank is a Chad
Hold up... you in top 8 your hell bent top a thought sieze and they got one card in hand ✋️ 🤔 and its a mistep and they cast it???? What kinds lay up tournament was this for you 😂.
Top 8: nothing unethical about any part of your play. Your opponent just made a novice big mistake. It can happen to all of us. Paper magic is sooooo much harder than online.
paper v online, can't agree more. when i used to play arena i always did well enough, at least no big blunders. but when i play paper, it is do much more of an info overload simply because the board in paper magic is not all neat and tidy. my brain does not have the training to easily parse a boardstate in paper
Ok, I think I heard some things about this in another channel about "did this person cheat" or something, and after seeing it... uh, what?!?! Where's the cheating? In poker, you are actively trying to get your opponent to make stupid mistakes or give up hands based on what you're representing. Magic is the same thing. If your opponent gives it up when they had the win, well that's called pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. That's a slip up. That's on them. There was no real deception going on. The opponent willingly gave that game to this guy. That's on the opponent's shoulders, not this guy's, and he has no moral obligation to go "well, you know, you actually won, so how about I just give you the win regardless." NO! There's never been ANY high level competition where someone had the game won, lost it due to a mistake, and the person who won just cheerfully says "nah, bro, it's all good, you win anyway!" Whoever is saying that this was a deceptive, or dishonest moment, or classless, or whatever other ways to say it, is clearly new to serious competition at any level. Unless this guy did something seriously underhanded (cutting decks wrong, "magician" shuffling, palming cards, etc), there's no controversy here. People need to get over it.
Long ago, I was in a deterministic loss against Elves-pact in vintage. I was already behind 0-1 and he just had to take his turn, pay his pact and bash me for lethal. There was no way to win fo me, so I thought hard (for show). Asked to count his deck (to remove the remember-to-pay-the-pact die) and thought some more. When he didn't put the die back, I knew I was going to win. And it happened exactly like that. I won that match 2-1. It's awkward to win like that, but sometimes, you just have to keep your opp. on their toes like that.
Hello!
Hello!
Bosh did nothing wrong.
Really there is absolutely no argument against what youre play in game 2.
If you only look at the top 8 it seems lile you won because you were either very lucky or your opponents were stupid
Nobody has ever won a tournament without getting lucky in a few key spots, good players put themselves in the position to leverage luck. And staying solid 10 hours into a tournament while other people start to deplete is its own skill.
Oh i did not mean it like that. Ofcourse you're very good at this. Just the flusterstorm/mox thing and the mite/oath things were pretty significant. GG's though and nice vid
Did nothing wrong
Ok I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with what you did. $500 entry into a chess tournament? Sorry bro, you took your hands off that piece.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is called "the scrub" in David Sirlin's (world champion street fighter player, master game theorist, game designer, author) competitive mindset Bible "Playing to Win."
You weren't playing this tournament "for funzies." You were playing to Win.
Here's a poker equivalent that comes up from time to time. In a hand of poker with a large pot in a major tournament, on the river card, player A makes a large bluff. Player B tanks then calls. Player A has a lowly pair of 3s. Figuring he's beaten, he mucks (tosses his cards into the discard pile face down... when they touch the discard, it cannot be undone - you're out of the hand) in disgust. Player B happily shows his "Ace high hand (no pair)." He called a large bet because his read was that player A had stone cold nothing (a hand lower than Ace high) and was pure bluffing. Turns out, player A's pair of 3s was the best hand. Player A should have NOT mucked. He should have basically turned them face up and said "good call, pair of 3s, you got me." [Player A has to reveal first since called]. Then, to his surprise and delight, player B would have mucked his Ace high.
So player A made a huge misplay here. And guess who wins the pot? Player B. This is similar to your situation. Player A (your opponent in this magic game) mucked his hand unnecessarily. And when you're playing for thousands or tens of thousands of pot, there are no takebacksies or "no don't muck you got this-es."
Well done. You played to your outs. Love the confusion line. Totally legitimate. It's not like you tried to cause confusion by exposing your genitals. You took legitimate game actions, and you even paid 2 life and 1 black mana to do so.
You earned it. Someone get this man a beer.
To be honest, I think it’s unprofessional and impolite for you to be like “nonono opponent, I, the great Oath of Druids player, can play your deck better than you” sitting at a table for a massive tournament like this. Stuff like this happens all the time in competition, and I think it would be poor sportsmanship to offer your opponent pity points
EDIT: let me clarify to avoid another misconception. I don’t have any problem with post game review like this, I think is great content and instrumental to the learning process. However, I feel it would have been unprofessional to not accept a concession at the table, assuming that you knew their pile and their position better than they did.
It his commentary way after the fact. No one really seems to care but you. So stop trying to troll or stop watching.
@@archon9836 I can see how this came across that way, but I wasn't critiquing the after-match commentary on the topic. I was saying it would've been unprofessional to not accept the concession and try to correct the opponent's mistake at the table. These videos are totally fine I wholly agree.
Rant inc
I don't understand why they insist on forcing the players to publicly track their own life total(the ipad) in these high stakes/feature matches. Imo, they should have someone tableside, like idk the judge sitting there with his thumbs up his ass, do it. If for no other reason than to compensate the added stress of the situation and drain on the players attention. Anybody can keep track of the life totals and I don't consider it a valid distinguishing skill in these situations where everyone present is already doing the math. It just feels like entrapment to me and specifically in these situations seems like just a needless annoyance for the players.
In the trenches elbow to elbow with sweaty ass-crack neckbeards? Absolutely, track your own matches shit. But in this situation? MOST games have a scorekeeper. The players are still gonna do the math anyways, so just let them play magic and let the staff focus on promotion and televising. 😤
Unless they paid or compensated you and you agreed. Then lul jk xd xd xd, but that's not my current understanding.
/endrant
Also, I love you going over the tourney matches in this way. I miss watching the in person events sometimes.
Absurd. Players need to be responsible for maintaining the game state/information for integrity of the match. Foundational to competitive Magic. Its incredibly easy to put pen to paper or tap a phone/boogie board.
Because certain life losses are trigger dependent and the judge can’t help you remember your triggers.
For example: someone plays the ring and has protection. They then tap ancient tomb. Whether they take damage or not demonstrates whether they remembered the trigger.
That would create a weird gray area very quickly.
@@kylejoly577 I specifically stated being responsible for the public broadcasted life totals and reiterated that the players would be doing the math anyways, but they shouldn't be responsible for the broadcast tablet display. At least, in my opinion.
@@pokedadsam9041 my response above should clarify for you as well.