The benefits for a business to switch to svelte aren't just substantial enough to justify investing the time, resources etc to do it. Not to mention the lesser resource pool of svelte developers = costlier & harder to find/replace resources.
Svelte 5 looks awesome for people that appreciate code that is maintainable for a long time. Angular could have been the framework that does reactivity via compiler, they are basically 90% there. They already statically analyze all your code. But somehow they are scared or not willing to do it. I love what svelte is doing here. I'm tempted to rewrite one of my vue apps into svelte 5, just to get a feel for it.
Svelte 5 Introduces : 1. Universal Reactivity 2. Signals under the hood : state, derived 3. Nested CSS 4. Built-in Animations : Fade, Fly, Scale, Draw, Blur 5. use:actions - Can Integrate any library into svelte --- we don't need to download tons of dependency - redux, framer motions or any other library to manage this ...we have every feature that developer needs honestly svelte 5 made it to write clean code - easy to understand
#1 - Muddies the water and makes the code arguably worse to read, components should be reactive, everything else should just be normal vanilla logic, just try to debug a custom react hook for a second... #2 - Great, and and what's the real change over the hood? #3 - "npm i -D scss" + "
Watching the web front end community reinvent the wheel every 6 years just to eventually end up with what they already had, declaring it too complex, then starting on the next mission to reinvent the wheel… always funny.
@@Vulume Not to this degree or this pace. I haven’t seen the same churn on desktop, game, or even mobile UI. Web tech sucks but rehashing the same frameworks and libraries over and over with new names and syntax differences doesn’t make it better. The root of the problem lies with the slow and inept W3C. Has since they formed.
@@JohnSmith-op7ls Very few people are writing desktop UIs, and even then web UI frameworks have come to the desktop. The big old ones are stuck and there are dozens of wrappers with their own paradigms that are often language specific. The churn is funny but great it's not for nothing, and if you account for the number of users it's not any worse than in desktop times.
@@Vulume It’s far worse than desktop, web is still struggling to provide what desktop apps were doing decades ago. Doesn’t matter how common desktop app dev is now, totally besides the point. Replace it with native mobile if you want and it still holds. Point is, web front end is held back by the incompetent W3C and people waste their time and energy on a treadmill trying to rehash more ways to do what desktop and native mobile apps have been doing for ages with far less hassle. HTML was never meant to do what it’s asked to, CSS has always been a hack to get it there, JS is awful, the APIs lag decades behind where they should be. I mean, HTTP didn’t even have a PUT verb until really late in the game. Imagine going two decades before the people making standards realized updates are a thing, and also they should be called PUT because being unintuitive is fun or something.
This looks fantastic, I wasn't sold initially but the upsides over the previous syntax are clear. Single reactivity system that is opt-in, no weird templating syntax for dealing with event handlers, extremely straighforward passing of props. Somehow this just seems to hit the initial design philosophy of svelte even more than its previous versions, this looks uncomplicated with no magic (even though under the hood there is clearly still magic). Some minor things I don't like have been brought up by Ben. I believe helpers for preventDefault, once, event bubbling etc should be built in, these are just too common so every project is going to define these pretty much globally right off the bat. Snippets I love the idea of, and I'm happy they added it, coming from Vue it had always been annoying to me that I need to make micro components for a component, even though that micro component is only used by that one component. But this implementation of snippets seems fairly limited, I hope they expand upon it. Thanks for the rundown Ben!
New svelte looks awesome, but when I look at this, on every new feature I had on my mind only one thing - vue had this ages ago… but for no reason vue don’t have as much hype as it deserve
looks really good, I think Rich Harris' blog post captured a lot of what I found icky about Svelte and honestly can't think of a bad thing mentioned in this video. Definitely gonna spin up a Svelte 5 app soon
I used to use Svelte because it allowed me to ship soo much faster, but with so many new frameworks like radix-ui and framer-motion the React side of the ecosystem is soo much stronger...
I feel like all the people hating on svelte 5, don't understand what an improvement this really is. Just take a moment and try to understand how signals work, and you will be blown away by its simplicity. Not like react at all.
I think the best take-away from this is no migration pain. Being able to jump into the newest major release is awesome. It's something that React fails horribly at. Migrating from VUE 2 to VUE 3 was pretty painless and continues to be so through 3.x. I think this is a pretty important metric that some frameworks seem to disregard. It sucks for developers to be version locked because of breaking changes due to a lack of foresight and consideration for backwards compatibility by the framework authors. Again something React and Angular are very guilty of.
By god SVELTE 5 is a marvel, I love it so much, really since I tried svelte, I knew that this was my framework, and although I am relatively new to svelte, I got to witness its update. I think I've used it enough to say that the only thing that broke my heart are the event modifiers, please bring them back hahaha they were a precious jewel, they were always welcome and they speed up the work a lot.
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
Man, I'm going to miss event modifiers so much. I like basically everything else I saw (and I was honestly very skeptical about runes), but the event changes I am really bummed about.
looks really nice. how does sveltekit functionality compare to nextjs? are there any glaring reasons to stay with next, other than the obvious smaller community and hiring pool?
Svelte is pretty much the same as Angular, but less complex and less powerful. Some basic syntax comparison: Svelte: const someState = $state(0) Angular: const someState = signal(0) Svelte: {#if source} {/if} Angular: @if (source) { } Svelte: action()}> Angular: --- Oh, and btw, Vue is almost the same as Angular
“Svelte 5 in like React”. This is the scariest thing i’ve heard since I fell in love with Svelte 😨 Please don’t tell me it has “useEffect” or something similar!!
I don't like the idea of having that many dollar symbols spread all around the code. That looks like jQuery. I would prefer something like: let reactive count = 1; const derivative double = count * 2; And something similar to $: for effect.
what about sveltekit which use svelte 4 with the page store or all the export let data: LayoutServerData, etc etc ? It is part of the migration or it will be handle later by another version of sveltekit which will migrate all the core syntax with svelte 5 ?
Making overviews 101: The amount of used words "amazing", "exciting", "stunning", "phantastic", "really awesome" etc is inversely proportional to usefulness of the video. Can we please NOT get this guy talking again here?
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
Ikr. People complain of the JSX syntax, but that {# /} thing is much worse to me. Only thing i dislike about svelte, but im gonna still give it a go. I was waiting for svelte 5 to try it
Didn't know Jack Harlow was so into web dev
my thoughts exactly 😅
💀
😂
I started watching after reading your comment and for a second I actually thought Ben was Jack Harlow hahah
@@ricardor8044this!
0:20 I almost expected Rich Harris to show up xdd
Same lmao
all we get is poor harris
Svelte 5 is good and all but.. can we talk about how Ben has adopted Theo's mannerisms??
😂
It's the shirt.
It shows how we're shaped by our environment!
is contagious xD , but gives you powers
I hate that it's automatic brain process and you can't just not adopt someone else mannerisms
Svelte is such a blessing for getting shit done.
The issue with non-React/Angular frameworks is that it's much harder to get a job in
The benefits for a business to switch to svelte aren't just substantial enough to justify investing the time, resources etc to do it. Not to mention the lesser resource pool of svelte developers = costlier & harder to find/replace resources.
We just switched away from react at work and boy is everyone in the team happy we don’t have to deal with react anymore.
I‘d rather sleep under a bridge and loot trashcans for a living than working with Angular again.
yes and ReAcT hAs biGgEr eCoSisTem
Well, if you dont know how to sell it, yes.
Lowkey expected Theo to walk out and just come back with another t-shirt on.
Black hoodie!
Svelte 5 looks awesome for people that appreciate code that is maintainable for a long time. Angular could have been the framework that does reactivity via compiler, they are basically 90% there. They already statically analyze all your code. But somehow they are scared or not willing to do it. I love what svelte is doing here. I'm tempted to rewrite one of my vue apps into svelte 5, just to get a feel for it.
Svelte is what Angular wants to be.
Svelte is supreme for enjoying your day to day.
Svelte 5 Introduces :
1. Universal Reactivity
2. Signals under the hood : state, derived
3. Nested CSS
4. Built-in Animations : Fade, Fly, Scale, Draw, Blur
5. use:actions - Can Integrate any library into svelte
---
we don't need to download tons of dependency - redux, framer motions or any other library to manage this ...we have every feature that developer needs
honestly svelte 5 made it to write clean code - easy to understand
nr 4 and 5 have existed since svelte 3, nested css also if you used a preprocessor using lang="..." syntax.
#1 - Muddies the water and makes the code arguably worse to read, components should be reactive, everything else should just be normal vanilla logic, just try to debug a custom react hook for a second...
#2 - Great, and and what's the real change over the hood?
#3 - "npm i -D scss" + "
all what you had in solidjs for long
0:45 "The soy React world" - the phrase made my day, ty
glad to see ben on this video!
Thanks!
wait
svelte is my fav framework
now I want to see ryan carniato in theo's studio .. please make it happen 😂
Theo, if you are held in Rich's basement and are forced to say good things about something other than React, blink twice.
Rich doesnt need force, he is the Web Jesus, he preaches and people come.
Watching the web front end community reinvent the wheel every 6 years just to eventually end up with what they already had, declaring it too complex, then starting on the next mission to reinvent the wheel… always funny.
based
This has been going on since before the web. UI is hard. It's a bigger mess on desktop thb.
@@Vulume Not to this degree or this pace. I haven’t seen the same churn on desktop, game, or even mobile UI. Web tech sucks but rehashing the same frameworks and libraries over and over with new names and syntax differences doesn’t make it better.
The root of the problem lies with the slow and inept W3C. Has since they formed.
@@JohnSmith-op7ls Very few people are writing desktop UIs, and even then web UI frameworks have come to the desktop. The big old ones are stuck and there are dozens of wrappers with their own paradigms that are often language specific. The churn is funny but great it's not for nothing, and if you account for the number of users it's not any worse than in desktop times.
@@Vulume It’s far worse than desktop, web is still struggling to provide what desktop apps were doing decades ago. Doesn’t matter how common desktop app dev is now, totally besides the point. Replace it with native mobile if you want and it still holds.
Point is, web front end is held back by the incompetent W3C and people waste their time and energy on a treadmill trying to rehash more ways to do what desktop and native mobile apps have been doing for ages with far less hassle.
HTML was never meant to do what it’s asked to, CSS has always been a hack to get it there, JS is awful, the APIs lag decades behind where they should be. I mean, HTTP didn’t even have a PUT verb until really late in the game. Imagine going two decades before the people making standards realized updates are a thing, and also they should be called PUT because being unintuitive is fun or something.
Music to my years! Yes Svelte 5 is better. Better than nextJS, switch today, thank me later.
Ironically, $: was the reason I never adopted Svelte.
You missed it bro!
This looks fantastic, I wasn't sold initially but the upsides over the previous syntax are clear. Single reactivity system that is opt-in, no weird templating syntax for dealing with event handlers, extremely straighforward passing of props.
Somehow this just seems to hit the initial design philosophy of svelte even more than its previous versions, this looks uncomplicated with no magic (even though under the hood there is clearly still magic).
Some minor things I don't like have been brought up by Ben. I believe helpers for preventDefault, once, event bubbling etc should be built in, these are just too common so every project is going to define these pretty much globally right off the bat.
Snippets I love the idea of, and I'm happy they added it, coming from Vue it had always been annoying to me that I need to make micro components for a component, even though that micro component is only used by that one component.
But this implementation of snippets seems fairly limited, I hope they expand upon it.
Thanks for the rundown Ben!
New svelte looks awesome, but when I look at this, on every new feature I had on my mind only one thing - vue had this ages ago… but for no reason vue don’t have as much hype as it deserve
This, this, a million times this.
Yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one.
It is literally Vue3 composition API
i've never seen such an upgrade run this easily and smoothly!
looks really good, I think Rich Harris' blog post captured a lot of what I found icky about Svelte and honestly can't think of a bad thing mentioned in this video. Definitely gonna spin up a Svelte 5 app soon
Svelte is awesome, i love it so much!
I used to use Svelte because it allowed me to ship soo much faster, but with so many new frameworks like radix-ui and framer-motion the React side of the ecosystem is soo much stronger...
I love Theos faces on the thumbnails, it looks like he just sat on a bag of grapes.
I feel like all the people hating on svelte 5, don't understand what an improvement this really is. Just take a moment and try to understand how signals work, and you will be blown away by its simplicity. Not like react at all.
Love this! found ben through the algorithm when he made the video about switching stacks. I didn't know he did Theo's thumbnails!
Runes and snippets are actually better that previous suntax
Svelte is a blessing to web dev
Tanstack Start + Query with Svelte 🤤
17:03 I don't like how it feels like Angular
I think the best take-away from this is no migration pain. Being able to jump into the newest major release is awesome. It's something that React fails horribly at. Migrating from VUE 2 to VUE 3 was pretty painless and continues to be so through 3.x. I think this is a pretty important metric that some frameworks seem to disregard. It sucks for developers to be version locked because of breaking changes due to a lack of foresight and consideration for backwards compatibility by the framework authors. Again something React and Angular are very guilty of.
Wow the sv cli is really cool especially how it integrates auth, although Lucia is being deprecated :(
By god SVELTE 5 is a marvel, I love it so much, really since I tried svelte, I knew that this was my framework, and although I am relatively new to svelte, I got to witness its update.
I think I've used it enough to say that the only thing that broke my heart are the event modifiers, please bring them back hahaha they were a precious jewel, they were always welcome and they speed up the work a lot.
I svelte this in my soul
An endorsement for anything not related to the React/NextJS ecosystem coming from Theo says a lot.
Edit: Wait, it's not him! lmao
Epic collab! I remember finding Ben when he did a lot of Golang videos
hmm, i think the event dispatcher should be good one…
Svelte 5 solves those issues via : host feature and honeslty we can pass events form child to parent comp via props
I stopped when he said "He creates Theo's thumbnails" I can't take this seriously.
I misread the title and got excited. I thought it said "Svelte 5 is like React, But Butter"
I’m rooting for Svelte and Vue. These two are the best IMO
Lucia, one of the packages it proposes to install, is no longer maintained as of 3 days ago
Been acknowledged, they are going to switch it out soon.
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
Man, I'm going to miss event modifiers so much. I like basically everything else I saw (and I was honestly very skeptical about runes), but the event changes I am really bummed about.
Glad to hear it’s out and about. Sounds like a great excuse to get into it again
It seems like Svelte is trying to appeal to a certain demographic of web developers. I dont know who asked for these changes but good for them tho !
Surely Theo is aware that title is very scary to svelte people
6 minutes ago is crazy
I told my 2y old, Ben, that this guy here is also named Ben. Now everytime he sees Ben, he says he’ll save him from work and bring him home 🤣
Wow! Sharing the mic! Kudos!!
wow this might be my favorite vid on the channel
Ben's way of articulation was very good. Very similar to Theo's.
that got me suprised ngl
same
looks really nice. how does sveltekit functionality compare to nextjs? are there any glaring reasons to stay with next, other than the obvious smaller community and hiring pool?
Svelte is pretty much the same as Angular, but less complex and less powerful.
Some basic syntax comparison:
Svelte:
const someState = $state(0)
Angular:
const someState = signal(0)
Svelte:
{#if source}
{/if}
Angular:
@if (source) {
}
Svelte:
action()}>
Angular:
---
Oh, and btw, Vue is almost the same as Angular
being able to run svelte 5 with Deno 2 is awsome, no prettier, eslint or vitest. Less config, more building
Svelte 5 is finally here?!
soy theo vs chad ben 😆
17:19 that's really good.
So Svelt is becoming old React, while React is becoming old Svelt... I miss programming.
Svelte 5 was the one that pushed me into nextjs. Although the svelte cli looks amazing... Can we have the same in next now?
Can we do the same but for Vue/Nuxt? 😲🔥
No fucking way. Ben Davis? WAIT YOU MAKE HIS THUMBNAILS?
I loved the event listeners how they where, f em
thanks for the download, great stuff
Zuck is the copycat GOAT
His team will take their good ideas and bring it over to React , as he should 😊
I haven't use the bun package manager yet. What's the advantage over pnpm?
"TODO LINK TO TUTORIAL" xD
“Svelte 5 in like React”. This is the scariest thing i’ve heard since I fell in love with Svelte 😨 Please don’t tell me it has “useEffect” or something similar!!
Still more into Vue than Svelte but looks cool
Svelte runes are literally Vue3 composition..
How is that like react? 😅 its closer to vue than anything
I don't like the idea of having that many dollar symbols spread all around the code. That looks like jQuery. I would prefer something like:
let reactive count = 1;
const derivative double = count * 2;
And something similar to $: for effect.
Svelte 5 Is Like Vue 3, But Better. I fixed the title
Hey, Ben here is awesome!
9:40 how would it work when lucia is being deprecated
Cross-over episode!!!
what about sveltekit which use svelte 4 with the page store or all the export let data: LayoutServerData, etc etc ? It is part of the migration or it will be handle later by another version of sveltekit which will migrate all the core syntax with svelte 5 ?
So YOURE the guy that is putting together the clickbait fake tweets? Smh
little do they know, I make almost all of those myself...
😂
Awkward that they put lucia in the sv cli, it just got deprecated :)
What is Jack Harlow doing here?
bringing Jack Harlow to explain svelte is a bit excessive but ok
Good job dude! I'll checkout your channel :)
But I move from react to svelte because svelte is not like react.
Making overviews 101: The amount of used words "amazing", "exciting", "stunning", "phantastic", "really awesome" etc is inversely proportional to usefulness of the video.
Can we please NOT get this guy talking again here?
The big issue is upgrading everything to work seamlessly with Svelte 5. Feels like when React went from classes to reactive functions and hooks 😅
Svelte can do a fair amount of the heavy lifting for you with it's migration package
collaboration
Seems more like vue but a bit cleaner
"soy react world", wonderful burn sir!
The snippet and render syntax is so ugly. I prefer anything that renders to have an element tag syntax .
The dawn of svelte???
It’s upload thing going to support svelte 5 now?😅
He might rewrite in Svelte 5 & then tell us why Svelte 5 sux lol
Wait. SV integrated Lucia into setup? But I thought that Lucia is dead/discontinued?
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
@@matthewcole4521 Got it. Thanks for the explanation :)
This video was sponsored by Theo🙃
Svelte seems great, but no JSX is a deal breaker
Ikr. People complain of the JSX syntax, but that {# /} thing is much worse to me. Only thing i dislike about svelte, but im gonna still give it a go. I was waiting for svelte 5 to try it
Show Ben more
I am so so tired of the 15+ frameworks / libraries in the JavaScript ecosystem.
🎻
Soy React world earned an instant like from me 🤣
Always bet on Rich Harris.
00:54 wtf is that font choice
Georgia
I love this Theo, great watch ❤😅
looks like a good reason to stick with react
I'll stick to Angular
😳