This is such a good look for the Laravel and the Laravel community. Most other communities would have just said "skill issue" and mocked him for it, but the Laravel team took this very seriously and made onboarding so quick and easy. Laravel probably has the best community in tech! To turn someone influential such as Theo from a hater/critic to an endorser in such a short time is a huge feat.
many new devs actually jump into react or vue and typescript rather quickly .. and learn from top to bottom.. wich i find actually harder , than learning from bottom up but why would i use php/laravel in 2024? .. if IoC or that kind of mvc stuff is ur thing might as well use AdonisJS , wich is basicly port or clone of laravel... or laravel-like JS framework...
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj The thing with learning something bottom up is it's not actually like that. Javascript, PHP, or any language is not something you "finished" and moved on to the "frameworks". You can learn up to a certain point then use some framework and it would not make a difference. You can build everything with vanilla Javascript and PHP but would you? Should you? And doing that would need more than "basic" knowledge about the language.
Inertia is a life saver, having laravel handle the routes and data makes it so much better than having to juggle api and routers between languages. Can't wait to use Inertia 2, I belive its out already, but on beta or whatever its called
@@mnchabel8402 Although I agree and I do enjoy building with livewire and filament. The very vast JS echo-system combined with inertia kinda gets you the best of both worlds
@@mnchabel8402I switched to inertia myself, before that I was building in livewire, but I quickly found out that it’s not great for large scale apps (I should say, other more experienced developers showed me some examples), but livewire is truly like magic it’s amazing
@@mnchabel8402 Easiest way is using React and Laravel API, trust me. 😏 I personally never tried Inertia, never need to. React is fast, much faster than Livewire and dynamic by default, it's very modular and using hooks it's like using Alpine. It's also cleaner and maintainable, you can structure your code in the way u want. And i don't even speak about ecosystem, and how easy it's implement DnD, advanced animations ( Framer Motion ), headless wysiwyg, which u can design in way u want, a lot of UI libs, ( ShadCN, Chakra, Bootstrap ) which brings you advanced components like Range calendars, easy solutions for drawers, dropdowns, OTP auto inputs, it's fully customisable by Tailwind and fun to work with. You can integrate basically everything for any purpose. Laravel it's perfect for API's, like it a lot. But speaking of frontend, javascript and especially React it's dominant. Livewire tries to bring React into Laravel ecosystem for MPA, but it's slower, onerous and output code is a mess. Funny thing is a fact, that lerning React is so much easier, than Livewire, even if you're not a JS guy. 😀
I use React and Laravel API, completely separated without Inertia. React is a powerfull tool and Inertia just cut off 90 % of it's features. 😃 It's funny, how people try to benefits from React without learning it and using that "life savers". 😏 Once u learn React, ( and trust me, it's very easy ) you forget about all of these "hybrid adapters" like Inertia.
I was so relieved to hear when Theo said Laravel “deserves its place in the ecosystem” and will “be around for a while to come”! After making a living off Laravel for the past 9 years I was starting to panic 😂
It's a simple "fix" that help a tons of people to make things works way faster. It lower the barrier entry and possible frustration with less steps. Just a big WIN for the Laravel team. Bravo!
the lower the entry barrier, that wasn't that high to begin with, the bigger the change people that are not interested in the field will ruin the comunity.
@@SXsoft99 I mean, one command to be able to run Laravel on a fresh install, is a nice attention. The entry barrier isn't that high but it may be for someone else. Fun fact, even the creator of Laravel didn't use Ruby on rail cause it was too hard for him to setup at the first place. Then it was sort of a key reaction of why he create Laravel. ;) I really dont get what you want to say about ruining the community?
Taylor and Josh are great people! Glad the onboarding process is getting easier! Also, love your dev script with multiple logs! Will be stealing that for my own apps 😆
Theo's command is officially part of laravel now as composer run dev command that you can edit in your composer file to your liking. Happy to see Theo taking this constructively and helping the community here. I watched the whole stream and was left with sour taste but it all triggered good things. Also happy to be the guy who suggested laravel new to him on X 😊
Thank Theo for this command 🥳 I was looking for it long time ago hehe. Now I can start Laravel reverb and npm run dev just one command ``` "scripts": { "vite:dev": "vite", "build": "vite build", "php:reverb": "php artisan reverb:start --debug", "dev": "concurrently -k -p \"[{name}]\" -c \"blue.bold,green.bold,red.bold\" \"npm:php:reverb\" \"npm:vite:dev\"" }, ```
It's available directly in laravel now from v11.29+ as a composer command. You can do composer run dev and it uses Theo's command plus some extra bits like queues and workers which you can edit out in your composer.json if you need to.
just a framework? there's an entire language called Ruby where the goal is "developer happiness" and in this language there is an amazing web framework called Ruby on Rails. Laravel is a PHP knockoff of Rails.
@@bloodonthesnow Ruby devs I'm sorry are kinda ........ Strange and they need to update their freaking docs and why are GEMS never updated they break all the time
The original stream was a rough watch, but I love how everyone engaged in good faith and came up with solutions for so many of the sticking points you identified.
"Mostly play for your fans. Play the hits." I'm a musician who reskilled into coding, and I can't begin to express how much this general principle of human psychology translates from music enjoyer to software developer. I like this guy. Probably gonna try his software.
I've been surprised to learn recently how much of the internet uses php, so even though it's not my focus right now I do feel like it's worth adding to my skillset at some point. I'm glad to know Laravel will be an easier place to start when I do.
Omg I remember that I wanted to try Laravel out a few years ago, but I had so many issues while installing everything you need before you can create your Laravel project that I lost interest (It was really really bad). Great that they finally fixed this!
Excited to try Laravel! I've been eyeing this for a while but I also had a lot of trouble getting it running. Aaron (prev at PlanetScale) did a video on Laravel and I was blown away by how easy you could get a project with databases, queues and crons up and running. What about deployments though? What's the story there? Building is fun but I need to get my stuff in front of users (hi mom)
@@sparsetableasdf is like nvm but for every lang/runtime and their versions. so asdf will manage diff versions of node, go, rust, php, whatever else u want instead of using nvm/fnm, pyenv, goenv, etc not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient if docker is a skill issue imagine i want to onboard a friend for a project that uses node and go: brew install asdf asdf plugin add nodejs # first u install this plugin, then a version for it asdf plugin add golang asdf install nodejs latest # can be any version here instead of "latest" asdf install golang latest asdf global nodejs latest # can setup runtime versions on a per-folder basis too asdf global golang latest that's 7 commands to install latest versions of both runtimes globally. and if this project had a .tool-versions file (similar to .nvmrc file) you can just "asdf install" and it will install everything for the project in one go. super convenient!
@@darkoplax7688 not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient when you need multiple different runtimes (and docker is a skill issue) imagine i want to onboard a friend to a project that uses node and go: brew install asdf asdf plugin add nodejs # add plugins asdf plugin add golang asdf install nodejs latest # install latest version of runtimes asdf install golang latest asdf global nodejs latest # set latest versions of runtimes globally asdf global golang latest that's 7 commands to setup both runtimes globally, and if ur project had a .tool-versions file (similar to a .nvmrc file), u can just "asdf install" and it will install all runtimes and the correct versions in one go. super convenient!
@@darkoplax7688 not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient if u wanna manage diff runtimes (and docker is a skill issue) imagine i want to onboard a friend for a project that uses node and go: brew install asdf asdf plugin add nodejs # first u install this plugin, then a version for it asdf plugin add golang asdf install nodejs latest # can be any version here instead of "latest" asdf install golang latest asdf global nodejs latest # can setup runtime versions on a per-folder basis too asdf global golang latest that's 7 commands to install latest versions of both runtimes globally. and if this project had a .tool-versions file (similar to .nvmrc file) you can just "asdf install" and it will install everything for the project in one go. super convenient!
I'm not a good developer, but I find PHP easier to work with than JavaScript. The JavaScript ecosystem is complicated, with each framework and library having its own quirks that are hard to remember. On the other hand, PHP is straightforward and easy to practice. However, when comparing PHP and JavaScript, the Phoenix framework stands out. It's not the fastest, but its concurrency and fault tolerance offer a great developer experience, even better than Laravel or Next.js. If Elixir, which Phoenix is built on, could compile to machine code or interact directly with hardware, it would become faster while keeping its advantages of concurrency and fault tolerance.
I think this is a much nicer approach, that command will however install Herd which I think if you're wanting to get up and running ASAP no big deal. It would be nice if that was made clear in the docs.
The changes pushed forward by you are great! However, I don't think it's a fair comparison. I might be wrong but [insert js framework of the day] doesn't have anything like this command or even like Herd. It assumes you have nodejs and probably a version manager for it, redis, a relational database, bells and whistles. What "modern tool" in the nodejs world are you comparing it to?
The little rails dig at the end got me haha. As a Laravel to rails convert, Laravel is not ahead of rails, at all. Onboarding, sure, docs - hell yeah. But the gems ecosystem kicks ass and Laravel is actually way more “on rails” than rails, which is part of the reason prompting me to jump ship. Laravel in places has tons of boilerplate and fluff and brittleness in a way that rails just does not. Rails actively encourages you to go off the beaten path when you need to and provides excellent tools (plus everything in the Ruby ecosystem and stdlib) for getting there. Laravel is utterly awesome and I love it. But I prefer rails.
Rails + Inertia should provide something similar to what Laravel has, it's just not out of the box. And comparing to Rails is kind of stupid, Rails went Hotwire way by default which is different direction and for non-JS devs that would be way more attractive way. For JS dev with zero Rails or Laravel knowledge - as a Rails dev I can admit, Laravel might be easier to start.
I believe feedback from fresh eyes is at least as valuable as from experienced users. just on different aspects. Feedback from fresh eyes is what paves a good on-ramp. Java has been focussing on this a lot. Nice to hear PHP has too
Honestly, thats is why Laravel so great!! Its not about the technology, it has always been the community. That is Laravel's Killer Feature!!!!!!!!! The PHP maintainers have also gotten so great! way better than the php 5.6 to early 7 days!
I still say that the "issues" you had were 100% your fault. Some of the issues could've been alleviated with a cursory look at the documentation. However, it's good that the Laravel ecosystem is improving these things for JS devs. Especially less experience devs I wouldn't necessarily be able to easily navigate some of these differences compared to JS framework but with the experience Theo has I think a lot was on him.
I used to love Laravel I got into programming because of it, but I grew a disliking for PHP because of it's machine specific config, inconsistent behavior across different machines and bad typing (compared to TypeScript). Especially when getting into microservices and monorepo's it becomes hard to manage it. But the biggest annoyance is not being able to sync your "server side" data model with your frontend. It is possible with `spatie/laravel-data` (thank god for Spatie) but my colleagues refuse to take that approach :(
Inertia documentation always been incomplete, especially when you setup manually. Following the docs will not lead you to successfully setup inertia, hopefully they've fixed that.
I've only ever made apps with symfony (of which http core is part of laravel/phpbb and some other frameworks). Symfony was always an enterprise framework while laravel was for small websites. I might try it out again and see changes.
@@guled669so they did add it? and you are complaining We had Devise anyway, and many other options. Cant say I have seen the same stability and features on javascript
He would never. The attitude in rails is “this is the default, you can use it or not, whatever” Which is both great at times and also annoying as shit.
@@EightNineOne at this point I don't even understand what's his gripe with Rails is. Rails works with Inertia just fine. Rails has it's own Hotwire aka HTMX style variation so any non-JS dev would be way more happy with that solution.
@@EightNineOne this is honestly overblown too, people act like you cant use any gem you want. Or structure it how you like. Or do metaprogramming. It's weird. It's only naming conventions and folder structures and you have those in next and most frameworks too
Kudos to the Laravel team for being proactive, but that start command (like a lot of Laravel) is a facade. I had to re-install my work stack this weekend and I tried this new method and it broke a lot of things I spent hours fixing. Not to mention every few months Sail breaks in new and fascinating ways, pulling in broken packages as nothing is version locked. Laravel and the ecosystem frustrate me to no end. Appreciate just how much there is to the ecosystem, but so much of it is extremely misleading. Inertia scales horribly and causes debugger issues, Laravel migrations and the ORM is a decade behind other frameworks (why do I have to define a FK in three separate places?), most of their default migrations don't enforce FK constraints, causing data integrity issues, Forge spins up a MySQL database on your EC2 instance, with no at rest encryption instead of an RDS instance... I could go on. Laravel and the ecosystem have a facade problem of making things appear very approachable, but once you really dive in, you see all the issues and just how painful it is to actually maintain, especially compared to other frameworks.
The lack of a typed object literal syntax is baffling considering how many other features they add to php. Setting properties one by one and having partial incomplete state makes the language totally suck once you've done FP in other languages.
Yesterday it took me 2 hours to setup laravel cms statamic on my Windows box. The tutorial say to use some kind of tool, then composer etc. For comparison it took me less than a minute to setup a dotnet cms (pyrahna). After multiple try I understood what they intended to do and was able to run laravel app from scratch with command line only. I experienced the same thing on my Linux. Not following the tutorial is faster and simpler 😅😅😅
Don't worry its not Laravel thing, but statamic, I am with laravel from v4 and it takes me few minutes to set it up on different machines. I recently tried statamic and it took me hours as well, issues with Database, then I tried to deploy on a server and had issues with composer not downloading all files and missing come static .json files... ughh, the whole cms feels unfinished.
If you want to give PHP a chance, learn PHP first then. Frameworks in general tend to change the way how to resolve problems. Specificly Laravel does use totally different paradigms than simple PHP or even other Frameworks like Symfony or Slim. So you either wanted to give Laravel a try, or you want to take a look at PHP. Laravel development is many times so abstract, that it feels a lot like you're coding Laravel instead of coding PHP. Similar as programming an app in Rails instead of plain Ruby.
Waiiiiit what ? We can have a react app in laravel ? I left laravel for react, how tf no one told me that before. That was the way to escape JS framework decision hell, and no one told me that.
@@desLunes Learning another DSL is escaping JS hell? Svelte just went back the React way, while having their own weird syntax. Have a look at VanJS once - it is simple, the framework is barely 250 lines of code, weighs around 1.2kb, and you can easily understand how it works internally.
What is the nuance? If you use React as a 100% pure frontend App, you only need to interact to the backend through http (i.e. rest, graphql) If you use Laravel mainly for it's backend power, then you can build it easily to be accessed over purely http. .. Laravel ALSO has a fully in-built frontend system which would replace react or (I would not recommend) mix it with react. the reason is that React and Laravel's **frontend** parts will simply try to be boss over the features that bind front to back, that's it. they can work together, but many feature within the frameworks rely on being able to take full control over your entire javascript runtime which is below all of it (the browser engines, where chrome and most of js frameworks share node.js at the core, and firefox and Apple have their own, Microsoft had their own but switched over to google's engine)
It always had this level of simplicity to set up, never more than a couple of commands. I’ve been using Laravel since v4 (it’s v11 now), Theo just bungled the install originally so badly he had to delete his stream lmao
@@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2 I used php a bunch for other project's like drupal and WordPress never had any problems with setup, however I can see how someone could
not hating intentionally, but..... ive been using laravel since v4, the docs have always got better each time i come bck to set up another project. after this change i struggled so much finding the info i needed as it had been over simplified :(
By being dumb, I made a project worse for everyone! Because instead of seeing how I was struggling and helping, they blocked anyone from ever asking for help again. Which.. like.. jesus, I get "a noob is annoying" but you could've just blocked ME. Instead, they blocked everyone. To be fair, it's probably better in the long run because now people know not to try to interact with those devs. But like.. yikes. It's kinda crazy how things can go sometimes.
Lets return to 2007 when needed to install a web server with WAMP just to run laravel new and scrap the project. yey. but theres a pro package, 99 pound plx
You can use svelte with inertia. For working with Sveltekit you will need to choose breeze starter kit with API only option when you execute laravel new. Then breeze will setup all the things like sanctum for auth etc. for you to start using as your backend API.
There's breeze-Sveltekit starter kit created by contributors that you can google. There is breeze-next starter kit as well just to browse and look through more updated codebase.
This is such a good look for the Laravel and the Laravel community. Most other communities would have just said "skill issue" and mocked him for it, but the Laravel team took this very seriously and made onboarding so quick and easy. Laravel probably has the best community in tech!
To turn someone influential such as Theo from a hater/critic to an endorser in such a short time is a huge feat.
Learning larvael before php is like learning react before Javascript
I learned both at the Same time
if you already learnt and used a few languages, switching languages is not as hard as you think, unless you learn how to code 3 months ago
many new devs actually jump into react or vue and typescript rather quickly .. and learn from top to bottom.. wich i find actually harder ,
than learning from bottom up
but why would i use php/laravel in 2024? .. if IoC or that kind of mvc stuff is ur thing
might as well use AdonisJS , wich is basicly port or clone of laravel... or laravel-like JS framework...
Theo is not a developer tho. He’s junior at best. So he doesn’t know what he’s doing in any language.
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj The thing with learning something bottom up is it's not actually like that. Javascript, PHP, or any language is not something you "finished" and moved on to the "frameworks". You can learn up to a certain point then use some framework and it would not make a difference. You can build everything with vanilla Javascript and PHP but would you? Should you? And doing that would need more than "basic" knowledge about the language.
"Fixed Theo's skill issues". Best clickbait thumbnail I've seen in ages :)
a youtuber being... a youtuber ;')
Many people on stream said it was a skill issue. So I guess it is not clickbait neither skill issue.
Poor people in the community....
yeah, because it wasn't fixed.
Inertia is a life saver, having laravel handle the routes and data makes it so much better than having to juggle api and routers between languages.
Can't wait to use Inertia 2, I belive its out already, but on beta or whatever its called
Personally livewire is better and easier, and I love Filament
@@mnchabel8402 Although I agree and I do enjoy building with livewire and filament. The very vast JS echo-system combined with inertia kinda gets you the best of both worlds
@@mnchabel8402I switched to inertia myself, before that I was building in livewire, but I quickly found out that it’s not great for large scale apps (I should say, other more experienced developers showed me some examples), but livewire is truly like magic it’s amazing
@@mnchabel8402 Easiest way is using React and Laravel API, trust me. 😏 I personally never tried Inertia, never need to. React is fast, much faster than Livewire and dynamic by default, it's very modular and using hooks it's like using Alpine. It's also cleaner and maintainable, you can structure your code in the way u want.
And i don't even speak about ecosystem, and how easy it's implement DnD, advanced animations ( Framer Motion ), headless wysiwyg, which u can design in way u want, a lot of UI libs, ( ShadCN, Chakra, Bootstrap ) which brings you advanced components like Range calendars, easy solutions for drawers, dropdowns, OTP auto inputs, it's fully customisable by Tailwind and fun to work with. You can integrate basically everything for any purpose.
Laravel it's perfect for API's, like it a lot. But speaking of frontend, javascript and especially React it's dominant. Livewire tries to bring React into Laravel ecosystem for MPA, but it's slower, onerous and output code is a mess. Funny thing is a fact, that lerning React is so much easier, than Livewire, even if you're not a JS guy. 😀
I use React and Laravel API, completely separated without Inertia. React is a powerfull tool and Inertia just cut off 90 % of it's features. 😃 It's funny, how people try to benefits from React without learning it and using that "life savers". 😏 Once u learn React, ( and trust me, it's very easy ) you forget about all of these "hybrid adapters" like Inertia.
Laravel has been around longer than the stable version of NodeJS. It'll be around for years to come.
I was so relieved to hear when Theo said Laravel “deserves its place in the ecosystem” and will “be around for a while to come”! After making a living off Laravel for the past 9 years I was starting to panic 😂
@@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2 why? Because somebody on RUclips said so?
It's a simple "fix" that help a tons of people to make things works way faster.
It lower the barrier entry and possible frustration with less steps.
Just a big WIN for the Laravel team. Bravo!
the lower the entry barrier, that wasn't that high to begin with, the bigger the change people that are not interested in the field will ruin the comunity.
@@SXsoft99 I mean, one command to be able to run Laravel on a fresh install, is a nice attention.
The entry barrier isn't that high but it may be for someone else. Fun fact, even the creator of Laravel didn't use Ruby on rail cause it was too hard for him to setup at the first place. Then it was sort of a key reaction of why he create Laravel. ;)
I really dont get what you want to say about ruining the community?
@@guillaumehuardhughes on a side note though. anything is easier to setup than Ruby
Taylor and Josh are great people! Glad the onboarding process is getting easier!
Also, love your dev script with multiple logs! Will be stealing that for my own apps 😆
Theo's command is officially part of laravel now as composer run dev command that you can edit in your composer file to your liking. Happy to see Theo taking this constructively and helping the community here. I watched the whole stream and was left with sour taste but it all triggered good things. Also happy to be the guy who suggested laravel new to him on X 😊
composer dev ❤
Thank Theo for this command 🥳 I was looking for it long time ago hehe. Now I can start Laravel reverb and npm run dev just one command
```
"scripts": {
"vite:dev": "vite",
"build": "vite build",
"php:reverb": "php artisan reverb:start --debug",
"dev": "concurrently -k -p \"[{name}]\" -c \"blue.bold,green.bold,red.bold\" \"npm:php:reverb\" \"npm:vite:dev\""
},
```
It's available directly in laravel now from v11.29+ as a composer command.
You can do composer run dev and it uses Theo's command plus some extra bits like queues and workers which you can edit out in your composer.json if you need to.
I am just coming back to coding after 8 years and Laravel has got me. I bought Larafast TALL and I’ve been so productive with it, it’s crazy.
Laravel is so cool I’m glad they made it easier to get into
Imagine having people working on a framework just so you get more comfortable with it
That I have to admit is GOAT STATUS
just a framework? there's an entire language called Ruby where the goal is "developer happiness" and in this language there is an amazing web framework called Ruby on Rails. Laravel is a PHP knockoff of Rails.
@@bloodonthesnow Ruby devs I'm sorry are kinda ........ Strange and they need to update their freaking docs and why are GEMS never updated they break all the time
They gets money for it
Yes that's how software works. People make it better based on user feedback
The original stream was a rough watch, but I love how everyone engaged in good faith and came up with solutions for so many of the sticking points you identified.
Laravel makes me always hyped to start coding for some reason
Amazing that the Laravel team took your feedback on board and made the process better for everyone! Respect to all involved! 🎉
Theo hating on Rails and then loving Laravel is hilarious
rails sucks at ui, theo s hatred of rails is justified
the DHH feud
Rails take on coexisting with JavaScript is niche.
"Mostly play for your fans. Play the hits." I'm a musician who reskilled into coding, and I can't begin to express how much this general principle of human psychology translates from music enjoyer to software developer. I like this guy. Probably gonna try his software.
I've been surprised to learn recently how much of the internet uses php, so even though it's not my focus right now I do feel like it's worth adding to my skillset at some point. I'm glad to know Laravel will be an easier place to start when I do.
I honestly love Laravel. Happy that they are in the right track.
Omg I remember that I wanted to try Laravel out a few years ago, but I had so many issues while installing everything you need before you can create your Laravel project that I lost interest (It was really really bad). Great that they finally fixed this!
have you tried to look it up on google? "how to install php on linux"
Excited to try Laravel! I've been eyeing this for a while but I also had a lot of trouble getting it running. Aaron (prev at PlanetScale) did a video on Laravel and I was blown away by how easy you could get a project with databases, queues and crons up and running.
What about deployments though? What's the story there? Building is fun but I need to get my stuff in front of users (hi mom)
Honestly, just using Laravel Sail with Docker gets me stated so quickly. I'm sure that method was already Theo proofed
Hilariously it's now simpler to set up than Node (using my usual Homebrew -> asdf -> Node -> Corepack -> Yarn machine setup flow)
what's asdf
@@sparsetableasdf is like nvm but for every lang/runtime and their versions. so asdf will manage diff versions of node, go, rust, php, whatever else u want instead of using nvm/fnm, pyenv, goenv, etc
not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient if docker is a skill issue
imagine i want to onboard a friend for a project that uses node and go:
brew install asdf
asdf plugin add nodejs # first u install this plugin, then a version for it
asdf plugin add golang
asdf install nodejs latest # can be any version here instead of "latest"
asdf install golang latest
asdf global nodejs latest # can setup runtime versions on a per-folder basis too
asdf global golang latest
that's 7 commands to install latest versions of both runtimes globally. and if this project had a .tool-versions file (similar to .nvmrc file) you can just "asdf install" and it will install everything for the project in one go. super convenient!
is it ? node still feels the easiest to setup
@@darkoplax7688 not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient when you need multiple different runtimes (and docker is a skill issue)
imagine i want to onboard a friend to a project that uses node and go:
brew install asdf
asdf plugin add nodejs # add plugins
asdf plugin add golang
asdf install nodejs latest # install latest version of runtimes
asdf install golang latest
asdf global nodejs latest # set latest versions of runtimes globally
asdf global golang latest
that's 7 commands to setup both runtimes globally, and if ur project had a .tool-versions file (similar to a .nvmrc file), u can just "asdf install" and it will install all runtimes and the correct versions in one go. super convenient!
@@darkoplax7688 not everyone needs asdf, but it is convenient if u wanna manage diff runtimes (and docker is a skill issue)
imagine i want to onboard a friend for a project that uses node and go:
brew install asdf
asdf plugin add nodejs # first u install this plugin, then a version for it
asdf plugin add golang
asdf install nodejs latest # can be any version here instead of "latest"
asdf install golang latest
asdf global nodejs latest # can setup runtime versions on a per-folder basis too
asdf global golang latest
that's 7 commands to install latest versions of both runtimes globally. and if this project had a .tool-versions file (similar to .nvmrc file) you can just "asdf install" and it will install everything for the project in one go. super convenient!
C++ and PHP sets the tone for all other programming languages that comes after
Seriously awesome. Installing and maintaining PHP on Mac has been very annoying ever since Apple removed it from OS.
Would like to see you make more Laravel, or even PHP vids. Good vid theo!
Always wanted to try Laravel out, and this will definitely make it easier for me. Thanks Theo!
I'm not a good developer, but I find PHP easier to work with than JavaScript. The JavaScript ecosystem is complicated, with each framework and library having its own quirks that are hard to remember. On the other hand, PHP is straightforward and easy to practice.
However, when comparing PHP and JavaScript, the Phoenix framework stands out. It's not the fastest, but its concurrency and fault tolerance offer a great developer experience, even better than Laravel or Next.js. If Elixir, which Phoenix is built on, could compile to machine code or interact directly with hardware, it would become faster while keeping its advantages of concurrency and fault tolerance.
I work in Laravel codebases at my job and in my free time and it's honestly pretty great. Taylor is also fantastic
Theo has almost gone full circle.
What you describe in the first 20 seconds is how I feel about React with yarn and a number of other tools.
You can also return json with ->json and just render that. That is just one network request with no full page 'reload'.
Sevalla: Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information).
I think this is a much nicer approach, that command will however install Herd which I think if you're wanting to get up and running ASAP no big deal.
It would be nice if that was made clear in the docs.
While i was a bit annoyed when you tried it the first time, im happy to see that this has a happy ending now.
Making php and laravel this easy to use will make the number of people interested in trying and sticking with it explode.
All these recent improvements to Laravel are actually making it attractive to learn PHP, even as a new developer.
The changes pushed forward by you are great! However, I don't think it's a fair comparison. I might be wrong but [insert js framework of the day] doesn't have anything like this command or even like Herd. It assumes you have nodejs and probably a version manager for it, redis, a relational database, bells and whistles. What "modern tool" in the nodejs world are you comparing it to?
The little rails dig at the end got me haha. As a Laravel to rails convert, Laravel is not ahead of rails, at all. Onboarding, sure, docs - hell yeah. But the gems ecosystem kicks ass and Laravel is actually way more “on rails” than rails, which is part of the reason prompting me to jump ship. Laravel in places has tons of boilerplate and fluff and brittleness in a way that rails just does not. Rails actively encourages you to go off the beaten path when you need to and provides excellent tools (plus everything in the Ruby ecosystem and stdlib) for getting there.
Laravel is utterly awesome and I love it. But I prefer rails.
Rails + Inertia should provide something similar to what Laravel has, it's just not out of the box. And comparing to Rails is kind of stupid, Rails went Hotwire way by default which is different direction and for non-JS devs that would be way more attractive way. For JS dev with zero Rails or Laravel knowledge - as a Rails dev I can admit, Laravel might be easier to start.
Laravel : 🍞 inertia: 🧈 React (or any frontend framework you can think of): 🍞
Previous week I learned php and Laravel (after 1 year of js-ts)
And this week - 🔥
I've been using Laravel since v5 and it just keeps getting better. I don't want to even look at another framework. It caters for all of my needs.
I believe feedback from fresh eyes is at least as valuable as from experienced users. just on different aspects. Feedback from fresh eyes is what paves a good on-ramp. Java has been focussing on this a lot. Nice to hear PHP has too
Honestly, thats is why Laravel so great!! Its not about the technology, it has always been the community. That is Laravel's Killer Feature!!!!!!!!!
The PHP maintainers have also gotten so great! way better than the php 5.6 to early 7 days!
I still say that the "issues" you had were 100% your fault. Some of the issues could've been alleviated with a cursory look at the documentation.
However, it's good that the Laravel ecosystem is improving these things for JS devs. Especially less experience devs I wouldn't necessarily be able to easily navigate some of these differences compared to JS framework but with the experience Theo has I think a lot was on him.
Laravel doing faar better than other languages many out there they don’t know
I've seen Laravel a lot in many dev RUclipsrs nowadays
I used to love Laravel I got into programming because of it, but I grew a disliking for PHP because of it's machine specific config, inconsistent behavior across different machines and bad typing (compared to TypeScript). Especially when getting into microservices and monorepo's it becomes hard to manage it. But the biggest annoyance is not being able to sync your "server side" data model with your frontend. It is possible with `spatie/laravel-data` (thank god for Spatie) but my colleagues refuse to take that approach :(
Inertia documentation always been incomplete, especially when you setup manually. Following the docs will not lead you to successfully setup inertia, hopefully they've fixed that.
I've only ever made apps with symfony (of which http core is part of laravel/phpbb and some other frameworks). Symfony was always an enterprise framework while laravel was for small websites. I might try it out again and see changes.
@@sujezz i think nowadays you can do a lot with both although Symfony makes it a bit easier to customise for specific needs
You can use Doctrine instead of Eloquent in Laravel. That way Laravel is ready for really "enterprisey" websites too :D
Now do Rails.
Rails is never going to bend their kneels. The just added authentication scaffold after 20 years of people asking for it
@@guled669so they did add it? and you are complaining
We had Devise anyway, and many other options. Cant say I have seen the same stability and features on javascript
He would never. The attitude in rails is “this is the default, you can use it or not, whatever”
Which is both great at times and also annoying as shit.
@@EightNineOne at this point I don't even understand what's his gripe with Rails is. Rails works with Inertia just fine. Rails has it's own Hotwire aka HTMX style variation so any non-JS dev would be way more happy with that solution.
@@EightNineOne this is honestly overblown too, people act like you cant use any gem you want. Or structure it how you like. Or do metaprogramming. It's weird.
It's only naming conventions and folder structures and you have those in next and most frameworks too
Laravel have WAY better tools for logging than that though.
Kudos to the Laravel team for being proactive, but that start command (like a lot of Laravel) is a facade. I had to re-install my work stack this weekend and I tried this new method and it broke a lot of things I spent hours fixing. Not to mention every few months Sail breaks in new and fascinating ways, pulling in broken packages as nothing is version locked.
Laravel and the ecosystem frustrate me to no end. Appreciate just how much there is to the ecosystem, but so much of it is extremely misleading. Inertia scales horribly and causes debugger issues, Laravel migrations and the ORM is a decade behind other frameworks (why do I have to define a FK in three separate places?), most of their default migrations don't enforce FK constraints, causing data integrity issues, Forge spins up a MySQL database on your EC2 instance, with no at rest encryption instead of an RDS instance... I could go on.
Laravel and the ecosystem have a facade problem of making things appear very approachable, but once you really dive in, you see all the issues and just how painful it is to actually maintain, especially compared to other frameworks.
Django is less talked about, but have similar features.
I was too dumb for React and Vue. Then they made Inertia. Learning Laravel is a lot easier if you've worked with Rails or Django before
Yes, Laravel is great but I don't blame people for being overwhelmed. The ecosystem has become fairly large and that's awesome!
JS devs have been sleeping on Inertia JS
If people tried to fix everything you are too dumb for, they would be fixing things forever
Glad to see easier ways for others to get started, but non declarative system setup makes my skin crawl 😂
Hello, Theo. What do you think about expulsion of Russian maintainers situation in the Linux kernel?
The whole re-validating the page after a post is Remix.
Ah yes the good old "skill issue" when you don't want to spend those 2-3 hours of how to set up some basic linux things
I contributed by being dumb...
Now Laravel has "composer run dev" command which run artisan, vite, pail & queue.. maybe got idea from you 😆
the only downside of Php is that, it doesnt have the fucking strong types
Yup believe me I work with it it's a hustle 😩
The lack of a typed object literal syntax is baffling considering how many other features they add to php. Setting properties one by one and having partial incomplete state makes the language totally suck once you've done FP in other languages.
PHP has strong types. What are you talking about ?
@@Pendulum86 since when? When you define a variable you don't know if it's a int string or null so you always run into soo many issues
@@HappyCheeryChap Yup
I like Laravel, Inertia can be great for most use cases. However I never managed to like PHP.
I'm a laravel Inertia Developer,
It's Pretty good
please do Symfony next, it needs this treatment too :D
yooooo, good stuff getting a fire lit to bring us this stuff.
Amazing how they tried copying rails, but yet so far behind 😂
Kotlin>
So, many of the changes laravel had over the past week was because of this guy.
Yesterday it took me 2 hours to setup laravel cms statamic on my Windows box. The tutorial say to use some kind of tool, then composer etc. For comparison it took me less than a minute to setup a dotnet cms (pyrahna). After multiple try I understood what they intended to do and was able to run laravel app from scratch with command line only. I experienced the same thing on my Linux. Not following the tutorial is faster and simpler 😅😅😅
how? it takes 20 mins at most to set it up... skill issue
Don't worry its not Laravel thing, but statamic, I am with laravel from v4 and it takes me few minutes to set it up on different machines. I recently tried statamic and it took me hours as well, issues with Database, then I tried to deploy on a server and had issues with composer not downloading all files and missing come static .json files... ughh, the whole cms feels unfinished.
I've never been more productive with Laravel & Livewire 😘
@@stursby Goodluck after 1year on it
If you want to give PHP a chance, learn PHP first then.
Frameworks in general tend to change the way how to resolve problems.
Specificly Laravel does use totally different paradigms than simple PHP or even other Frameworks like Symfony or Slim.
So you either wanted to give Laravel a try, or you want to take a look at PHP.
Laravel development is many times so abstract, that it feels a lot like you're coding Laravel instead of coding PHP.
Similar as programming an app in Rails instead of plain Ruby.
Programming languages isn't that much different after you try some.
Waiiiiit what ? We can have a react app in laravel ? I left laravel for react, how tf no one told me that before. That was the way to escape JS framework decision hell, and no one told me that.
nevermind I remember PHP's syntax, I'm fine with javascript. The way to go is Svelte.
@@desLunes Learning another DSL is escaping JS hell? Svelte just went back the React way, while having their own weird syntax. Have a look at VanJS once - it is simple, the framework is barely 250 lines of code, weighs around 1.2kb, and you can easily understand how it works internally.
I use laravel and react at work in one codebase. Works great.
What is the nuance?
If you use React as a 100% pure frontend App, you only need to interact to the backend through http (i.e. rest, graphql)
If you use Laravel mainly for it's backend power, then you can build it easily to be accessed over purely http.
.. Laravel ALSO has a fully in-built frontend system which would replace react or (I would not recommend) mix it with react.
the reason is that React and Laravel's **frontend** parts will simply try to be boss over the features that bind front to back, that's it. they can work together, but many feature within the frameworks rely on being able to take full control over your entire javascript runtime which is below all of it (the browser engines, where chrome and most of js frameworks share node.js at the core, and firefox and Apple have their own, Microsoft had their own but switched over to google's engine)
Me, watching this right after i install Laravel to six containers and wrote whole Kubernetes logic to it. 😀
Inertia is the only reason I want to learn laravel
I saw this a week a go and was surprised i don't have to install herd or xamp, i install laravel on my zoris os
Silence! JS dev is discovering redirects lol
that sponsor conflict lol
Anyone has the link of the livestream with Tayler and Prime?
"Weaponized Skill issue" XD
Thank you Theo
web devs being too dumb for anything little more advanced is nothing new
I mean if it's possible to automate why wait so long? it's crazy to me that it took so long to automate something hundreds of people do on daily basis
It always had this level of simplicity to set up, never more than a couple of commands. I’ve been using Laravel since v4 (it’s v11 now), Theo just bungled the install originally so badly he had to delete his stream lmao
@@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2 I used php a bunch for other project's like drupal and WordPress never had any problems with setup, however I can see how someone could
dumb doesnt cut it lmao
We make laravel easy even for none programmers like thoe
not hating intentionally, but..... ive been using laravel since v4, the docs have always got better each time i come bck to set up another project. after this change i struggled so much finding the info i needed as it had been over simplified :(
By being dumb, I made a project worse for everyone! Because instead of seeing how I was struggling and helping, they blocked anyone from ever asking for help again. Which.. like.. jesus, I get "a noob is annoying" but you could've just blocked ME. Instead, they blocked everyone.
To be fair, it's probably better in the long run because now people know not to try to interact with those devs. But like.. yikes. It's kinda crazy how things can go sometimes.
so they made elixir/phoenix but in php... tho elixir/phoenix's install is way harder now.
"meme framework" dude Laravel is one of the frameworks that has been the most here, in any case other frameworks are memes
Where can I watch the Theo’s PHP stream?
He deleted it because it didn’t reflect well on him (to put it politely 😂)
@@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2 too bad! If he was shitting php non stop that would’ve been the best thing to watch cuz I hate php so much, lol
I have used php for 20+ years and have never touched Laravel lol
Why do I see ViteJS and PHP/Laravel in the same project / term?
Vite is Laravel’s default frontend build tool.
@@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2 interesting thank you
Sevalla's homepage is so laggy it lags my mouse input. Let whoever is interested in this know.
Your doing God's work.
Lets return to 2007 when needed to install a web server with WAMP just to run laravel new and scrap the project. yey. but theres a pro package, 99 pound plx
Please create a video about Django as well.
How can I club sveltekit app with a php app, where the sveltkit . I want to build the static part with svelte and invoke the backend with php
You can use svelte with inertia. For working with Sveltekit you will need to choose breeze starter kit with API only option when you execute laravel new. Then breeze will setup all the things like sanctum for auth etc. for you to start using as your backend API.
There's breeze-Sveltekit starter kit created by contributors that you can google. There is breeze-next starter kit as well just to browse and look through more updated codebase.