According to WB Smith, ("Small Arms of the World")the Germans and Japanese never had enough of their own small arms to issue to all their personnel so when possible those taken from vanquished foes were reissued, particularly occupation forces. At the start of the attack on the Maginot Line in 1940 11 Axis Divisions were equipped with Czech produced weapons, kharma for France's doublecross at Munich in 1938 ? In the instances of the Browning HP and Polish VIS Radom, the factories taken intact resumed production for the new masters, and these were given out to front line formations preferring them. The fanatic SS in particular in the beginning of the War were step nephews of the OKW High Command regular professional Army hierarchy. Their self invterest mission was always to capture enemy material for their own use. Later in the War as the Reich was losing this changed and the SS became the elite, prioritized for the best and the most.
I guess im randomly asking but does anyone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account? I was stupid forgot the password. I love any help you can give me
My Dad, who was ground crew in Canada and Yorkshire with the RCAF IN WW2 would shoot skeet with a pump action .22. Utilising a .22 shot round. At the bases.
My great uncle was in the 101st Airborne during WWII and brought a drilling home with him (without the case). When I was ten years old in 1976, he brought it to a family picnic to show it off. After a lot of drinking (and the first time I ever saw drunk people) they wanted to shoot it. They didn’t have any problems with the 12 gauge barrels. However, they didn’t have the correct rifle cartridge so they used a 7mm Remington Magnum round. That caused the rifle barrel to explode and causing a 4-6 inch crack. The drilling was then sold to a gunsmith for only a couple of hundred dollars. At least I have his wartime stories to dwell on.
My father taught Arial Gunnery in the Navy during WWII, they used shotguns to teach students how to lead their sighting on the Target. He said the shells were very very weak. RIP Dad
My buddy's dad was a B24 gunner that flew off of Guam that showed me his photo album and in it was a picture of him holding a long barrel Remington Model 11 auto loading shotgun, he said they used them for aerial gunnery practice, also in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military shotguns, there's a picture of a special swiveling mount that was made that an auto loading shotgun was mounted in with .50 cal butterfly handles on the back with a mechanism connected to the trigger for aerial gunnery training in the flight schools in the US. Also the long barreled shotguns that were the same models of the short barreled shotguns used in combat, along with the long barreled auto loading shotguns used for aerial gunnery practice and training were given to high ranking officers for recreational shooting and game hunting in their off time, these shotguns were US property marked and can be found on the collectors market, but good luck finding them because they're rarer then the trench gun versions.
It's neat to see such a unique and odd gun up close. My grandpa brought back a box of Goering's cigars and a very similar gun from WW2. From seeing this, I'm left with the notion that it's a prewar civilian ancestor to the M30 but with a bizarre stock. I really appreciate you sharing this kind of fascinating material.
This would seem to be a specific Goering idea rather than cronyism. That is, a fine Drilling is what Goering would have wanted if he were shot down and he was an ex-WW1 pilot. And if Goering thought it was a good idea, they'd have do it. That's my take. A Goering brainstorm rather than cronyism.
I think you are right about the bribe/graft hypothesis. Regarding skeet shooting by pilots, when I was in the RCAF in the late 50's, we trained our pilots on skeet ranges. They were flying P-51-D Mustangs and practised shooting at drogues and ground targets.
Dad was a ball turret gunner, B-24, WW2. His training included skeet shooting on his back in a slit trench giving him limited visibility - the original sporting clays. I agree that the drilling was not used for that, just wanted to add on to the skeet training though.
You're absolutely right about aerial gunnery practice and training, my friends dad was on a B29 crew that flew off of Guam, he showed his photo album to me and in it was a photo of him on the island holding a Remington Model 11 auto loading shotgun, he told me they used them for aerial gunnery practice and for training back in the States shooting clay pigeons, also in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military Combat Shotguns, there's a picture of a special swivel mount that had an auto loading shotgun mounted in it with .50 cal type butterfly handles and a mechanism attached to the shotguns trigger that was developed for aerial gunnery training in the flight schools in the States. Also the long barreled non combat shotguns used for aerial gunnery practice were also issued to high ranking officers for recreational shooting and game hunting while off duty, these long barreled non combat shotguns used for training and recreation are US property marked and can be found on the collectors market but good luck, they're harder to find then the combat trench guns.
You're joking, but back then they didn't really know that the Lions in Norhtern Africa had been extinct, so they actually wanted a gun that could kill big game.
*Remember folks, there were lions in North Africa where these guns were supposed to be used at. And these lions were 50+ pounds heavier than the modern African lion. Look up Barbary Lion on Google.* *in 1942 a picture was taken of the last known one from a female celebrity flying from Morocco to Egypt if I remember correctly.*
Apparently these were also carried on flying boats as protection against polar bears and for hunting for food in the polar regions incase of the aircraft breaking down, or the crew having to rescue downed airmen/stranded shipwrecked crew in these areas, might not be true, in the UK after Dunkirk we had a shortage of weapons so the government issued 12g shotgun cartridges, I have two types, one that would of contained some sort of incendiary for training bomber crews shooting at moving targets and solid lead ball shells for issue to the homeguard for any members who owned their own shotgun.
What food in the polar regions? Do you mean all the deer, rabbits, squirrels, and game bird that are so plentiful in a place like that? It's not like there's wood lying around all over the place to build a fire to cook them anyways, nothing about that narrative makes any sense. Seriously, these things were a result of palm greasing for contracts and Goering gave them out to his cronies for them to use for recreational shooting in their off time, there's absolutely nothing about them that makes any sense that they'd be intended for survival use, the cases wouldn't be that big, that much work and detail wouldn't have been put into their production, nothing about the survival gun story makes sense to someone like me that's been collecting military shotguns for years, none of it adds up.
@bert smith Dude, these are not survival rifles, color case hardening? Seriously? If they were worried about survival they'd have been producing them in numbers instead of giving them presentation grade finishes. There's absolutely nothing about the "survival gun" story that makes one bit of sense, they were crony guns that when old Herman handed one to someone he said "Here's a survival gun" (wink wink).
Just a couple of points. 1) shotgun shooting was absolutely part of RAF air gunner training so yes, the Germans may have done so as well. 2) military issue handguns are next to useless as a survival weapons because they are short range, inaccurate and lacking in the power necessary to kill large game or dangerous animals. 3) on the other hand, despite what you say, the drilling would have been an excellent survival weapon when issued to aircrews who had to operate in remote areas in Africa or parts of the Middle East. And 4) the US Airforce has also issued specialist firearms to it's aircrews when operating in certain parts of the world.
Great video. Thanks for the education and thoughtful presentation. I like how you're transparent in your thought process as this connects the dots to all the question marks I've had when handling Luft drillings. Keep up the good work
I understand there were 3-barrel rifles at the Soyuz rescue packs at least till 25 years ago. If you come across one of these, it would be interesting showing them to us. It also gives you perspective, for some strange reason people thought they would be useful as rescue tools . Thanx!!!
I remember back in the late 60's an associate of mine had a drilling in excellent condition.Never saw one like it before nor since.I'm sure they're worth big💰💰💰💰💰💰
I can see using one to survive if forced to land in the hinterlands of Norway or Finland where it might take days or even weeks to reach civilization. Let us not overlook the possibility of them being used for recreational shooting/hunting by members of a squadron.
I read that these were survival weapons for shot down African based Stuka crews, they would have been up against elephant, lion, water buffalo, crocodiles etc and a handgun would have been useless. I am sure it was in Guns and Ammo back in the seventies or eighties, try seeing if they have any info in their archives. I seem to remember a rifled shotgun barrel and a smoothbore plus the rifle calibre below though I may be wrong on that.
You're going to find out that's wrong, word of advice, Guns and Ammo isn't the best source for "facts" about something like this, they have a tendency to print story's that are just hearsay that some writer figures is true because he heard it from his dad or someone he knows, I've seen more than one article from that rag that I knew immediately was bunk or found out later it was from a write up in the NRA's American Rifleman.
I’ve read that Goering was a big game hunter and liked the idea of living off the land if you were shot down and could protect yourself from big cats, buffaloes etc in Africa. Very Biggles goes forth but that was his generation.
You're right about a few things AND you're wrong about a few things, first off, American military combat shotguns that were procured that were just regular civilian production police shotguns modified for combat use with bayonet lug/handguard assemblies also had the regular long barrel civilian versions procured for aerial gunnery practice, my friends dad was a B29 gunner and I saw a picture in his photo album of him on Guam holding a Remington Model 11, he said that they used them for aerial gunnery practice and that they also used similar auto loading shotguns during their initial aerial gunnery training in the States, there was even a special fixture on a stand designed that they clamped them into that had the same type of butterfly handles that a .50 cal had for them to get the feel of shooting from a B17 or B24 while shooting clay pigeons, pictures of that stand with an auto loading shotgun in it are in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military Combat Shotguns, the regular long barreled shotguns were ALSO procured for high ranking officers for sport and game recreational shooting, US property marked long barreled versions of shotguns are on the collectors market. So yes, the shotgun you have there was most likely not produced for survival reasons by aircrews and undoubtedly them being gifts for contracts is true, the reasons you listed are all correct along with the fact that the handle on the case would not only tie up a hand while someone would be bailing out of a plane but would also undoubtedly break or be dropped from the G forces of a parachute deploying even if someone did manage to bail out and manipulate their ripcord onehanded with one of them in their other hand, if it was intended for that it certainly wouldn't be in such a large case and it undoubtedly would have a means for it to be attached to the pilot via rings and clips, also where in the world would a fighter pilot keep one on the cockpit of a fighter. So yes there's no doubt they were a result of "palm greasing" for contracts and most likely their use was recreational shooting and game hunting (not for survival hunting of game) by officers in their off time. And yes the color case hardening is gorgeous on that. As a footnote, my dad had a friend that brought back a pair of perfectly matched double barreled shotguns he took from a castle when his infantry unit rolled through Germany that were in a beautiful wood case that had the most beautiful engravings and were a perfect duplicate of each other, they were for some "lord of the manner" to hunt from a blind while the "serfs" drove game through the brush towards him and have an assistant loading one while he shot the other, hence the fact that they were perfect duplicates of one another.
Duke Craig That matched pair that your dads friend had were most likely British made SxS. A Driven pheasant hunting matched pair. Very popular with the rich. I have a modern matched pair that I use, a SxS is lethal on pheasants out to 70 yards.
@@victortamini847 No, they were German, they came from a castle that the guys unit went through, I don't know if I ever did know the manufacturer but they were German made. They had plenty of shotgun manufacturers in Germany like Heym, Kriegoff, Merkel, J.P. Sauer, and H.A. Linder that made matched set shotguns. Suhl was most likely the region they were made in, it was the epicenter of guilding and master gunsmithing in Germany back in the day.
dreiling. they are called dreilings. drei in German is 3. it was mispronounced by english speakers and referred to since incorrectly as a drilling. hunting guns made for wild boar in the schwarzwald and bavarian mountains.
As a German i must tell you, that you are wrong! Drilling is correct. Zwei, but Zwilling ( twin), but this is only used for children, rifles with two barrels are called Doppelbüchse (double rifle) , a shotgun is a Doppelflinte ( double shotgun), a combination gun with one rifled and one smoothbore barrel is a Büchsflinte (rifleshotgun). These are the german words for side-by-side versions, over and unter versions have the word Bock before the name. Drei, but Drilling (triplett) both for children and guns. A Drilling has usually two smoothbore barrel and one rifle barrel (standard Drilling), a Drilling with two rifle barrels and one smoothbore barrel is a Doppelbüchsdrilling, a Drilling with three rifle barrels is a Büchsendrilling and a Drilling with three smoothbore barrels is a Flintendrilling. And when the three barrels are over and under in line then you have to add the word Bock in front. With numbers higher than three you only must use the number and add ling. A gun with für barrels is a Vierling, to describe the different versions you must use the same system. Vierlinge exist, but only custom made by good gunmaker craftsmen. A gun with five barrels would be a Fünfling, etc., but i do not know, if this exists. And before i forget it, a rifle with one small bore barrel and one large bore barrel is a Bergstutzen. Rather simple, isn't it ;-)?
I own one in 16x16x8 mm JRS. It is almost new and very very accurate . The reciver is silver coated and hand engraved, The trigger guard is made of something like black ivory but no Luftwaffe eagle on barrel or stock. I would like to discover more about that fine gun .
Sauer and Krieghoff (both in Germany) made a lot of specialty shotguns for hunters all over Europe and the US. Drillings as well as they were uniquely a German product. When in good condition they are definitely very collectible. We only buy/ sell the Luftwaffe guns as we specialize in wartime memorabilia. Perhaps one of our other viewers can comment on your gun as it is not something I am familiar with. Best wishes for the new year.
The trigger guard is most likely water buffalo horn I own a drilling and also looked at others they were all horn butt plates, pistol grip cap and trigger guard. I also think all the Nazi guns were 12 gage
I have one . and very hard to value it. mine dated 1927. theses where made all the way back to late 1800s. I read somewhere they where also made for very wealthy hunters that didn't want to carry to guns on Safari hunts. and also could take up to over a year to be made.
The Drilling was formerly rather popular in the german speaking countries, they are still in production. When you want something expensive, you must look for a Vierling, they are only made by gunsmiths.
Years ago I had a Drillings in 16 x 16 x 9.3 x 74r ? if my memory still works. It was made in Stuhl. I can't remember the makers name, but I remember that it had cocking pin indicators. Did any of these Luftwaffe guns have cocking pin indicators? I know at the time they were our enemies, but they sure turned out some quality weapons. I also believe that Goering probably had a lot of influence into who did what and who got what because he was a showman and a flash Cadillac.
Tom, This was great info as I always wondered as you have "This is a survival gun". It never made any sense to me. It's big, heavy and it would have to be in the airplane. Most aircrews would have bailed out. Thanks Tom. Great video.
@Dirtyd23 You mean all that game that's in the desert in North Africa? All the squirrels, rabbits, deer and game birds in the Sahara desert? Or all the wood that's lying around to make a fire to cook them with? The thought that it's a survival gun is ridiculous, they were a product of palms being greased for production contracts being given out and they were given to crony's of Goering's for off duty recreational shooting and hunting, the US military also issued high ranking officers shotguns that are US military property marked for the same reasons, officers have it like that, and if you ever find something like this in combat you better hide it or some jack-off officer will take it away from you and he'll be the one showing it off to his friends after the war telling them all about how it came from a German officer he killed in deadly hand to hand combat.
Indeed they did !! They went through a lot of bleak days but hung in there until (together with their allies) they were able to turn the tide against the Nazi threat. Three cheers for the Brits !!
@@thomaswhiteman4261 I have to admit I bet there were a few happy faces when the yanks arrived at the party. I'm British and I have to admit the yank GI's looked a lot cooler that the brit tommys. I think respect to all those guys who fought for freedoms many take for granted today.
Just a small remark but still: Showing Schindler's list as documentary illustration for anything is a bit off, as a book "Schindler's Ark" that it was based upon was awarded following literature prices: 1. The Man Booker Prize for FICTION in 1982 and 2. Los Angeles Times Book Prize for FICTION in 1983.
Agramer Old Octane schindlers list is partly authentic, but the context of the story is true, schindler saved a lot of jews from the deathcamp by asking for much more workers than needed, i have been in Krakow several times and visited Schindlers factory and the concentation camp (Plaszow) figured in the book and movie, the commandants house (Amon Goeth) is still standing, (Amon Goeth was removed as commandant by the SS due to the return commision he got from local factory/business owners and the theft of jewish property which belonged to the German state, as it was revealed by his book keeper in the book/movie, after the war Amon Goeth was judged to hanging by a Polish court, here is video of his hanging, he was first succesfully hanged by the 3 attempt, its said that they made the rope to long intentionally) ruclips.net/video/wlB1HJIpbiM/видео.html
@@boboman67 I am Polish and aware of the background. However movie is not documentary, and parts of it should not be used as such, otherwise next we might use "Saving private Ryan" or " Inglorious bastards" as documentary movies.
Agramer Old Octane But here its used in the context or example of how the need for workers might have saved some lives, in that context it is okay to use schindler as an example. Another thing was if some scenes of the movie where used as examples, the historical facts says that Schindler saved about 1200 lives due to his demand of labour. I think it was a great example. (The vlogger talking about the demand of workers in the german war industry actually saving lives)
They hunted a lot in their areas they were in also, not only as survival guns, but also as recreation weapons. Shotguns Merkel for qualification training used, look up German Hunting Guns page, a wondeeful site for info that i appreciate very much. Reason for 9,3 is that in several African areas 9,3x62 and 74 was minimum for Grosswild , and Dangerous game like buffalo, lion,elephant ,leopard. Rhino. Ammo was Tug Torpedo Universal Geschoss,,and Solid 293 grain Rws or Brenneke ammo,as Brenneke designed it back then. As it was issued with, but a lot of 9,3 ammo around today. Shotgunammo, bird,buck, Brenneke Kugel, the hard slug ammo Willhelm Brenneke designed capable of dangerous game ,and classic for boar,bear. Pick up a Ruger nr 1 and its cheap versatile ammo. Going to look for a drilling over here this year, for me a 9,3 is high on list.
Instead of being shot down or crashing there were other options: Bad weather, sandstorm, engine failure, running out of fuel, etc forcing you to land in African wilderness. "They had a sidearm. So, you already had a sidearm, why do you need a Drilling?" Surviving or even hunting with a pistol in African wilderness? Yeah, sounds like a challenge.
Of course a Drilling is not a combat weapon however it is a great survival gun. You can shoot small game with shot and big game by using the rifle barrel or slugs. It‘s also incorrect to say a Drilling is a shotgun! A Drilling is a combination gun which is perfect for hunting.
I have a conjecture. If Your were shot down, if You are running around in the woods and try to hide, if You are seen with a handgun, You are an enemy trying to hide, but walking around with an high end shotgun, You are hunting. Sounds good until You have not one but two eagles with the Swastika in their talons. So no, it was not that. It would have been better with shorter barrels, 20 instead of 12 gauge, one barrel of that, one for .22LR could be hidden as a normal barrel 8inches long, nearly a suppressed gun then, and for long range, or hunting 5.6x52 R, it would be a light gun for survival, and NO Swastikas at all, maybe marked as and old Belgian gun, that could be found world wide.
Not to mention all the squirrels, rabbits, deer and game birds that AREN'T in a desert to hunt, along with all the firewood that ISN'T in a desert to cook them after you don't find anything to shoot. They weren't survival guns, they were a product of palm greasing from contracts and they were given to crony's for off duty recreational shooting and hunting. There isn't a single thing about them being survival guns that makes any sense.
......... I can "smell some jealousy" in the air....... yeah, unfortunately it's NOT American! This drilling is a fine example of what German engineers were capable of...... they were ahead of all others in designing and product quality and to some extend they still are! (Look at the cars or the motorcycles they make!) Their shotguns and rifles are stil among the best there are available worldwide! Nice video overall w/plenty of information! Thank you for sharing!..... I just don't agree with some of your comments...... it may be my idea but, they seem a little bit ironic!
You might be thinking "Why would they need this in North Africa?" Well, folks, enter the now regionally extinct Barbary Lion. A lion hell of a lot more heavier than the modern African Lion. the last recorded shooting of a wild Barbary lion took place in *1942* near Tizi n'Tichka in the Atlas Mountains. A small remnant population may have survived in remote montane areas into the early 1960s
I might be one of the few people that had no doubt that I’d want as big of a rifle as I could carry out there. I don’t think people realize there’s places like the ocean where we (humans) are not the king of the jungle.
I'm sure it was a honor issue, a gift for pilots who deserves, a weapon form of medals. I'm sure 'cause this rutine (girft weapons as service decorations) is known from Royal Army of Austria-Hungary (austria was a part of 3.reich then, and Hitler was native austrian).
If I were shotdown in Africa I would definitely rather have the security of the Drilling over the insecurity of a Luger Sidearm. A 400 lb lion isnt likely to fall using a luger
Yup, never more than a "trophy gun". Not much different than the ceremonial swords that were common in western Europe just a few generations before that.
Exactly, not to mention that there also ISN'T rabbits, squirrels, deer or game birds to shoot for survival much wood laying around to build a fire to cook them in the desert, it's a ridiculous idea that they're desert survival guns, they're definitely a product of palms being greased for production contracts and that they were given to crony's of Goering for recreational shooting and game hunting in their off time. Regular civilian versions of the US shotguns that were modified for combat were issued to high ranking US officers for the same recreational purposes in their off time, they do however bear the same US property markings that are found on the combat shotguns, good luck finding one, I've been collecting US military shotguns for 30 years and have only ever seen pictures of them.
@@dukecraig2402 Exactly... wrong. There was the Barbary lion, the last group of which had been sighted in 1942... today they are extinct, but back then it could've been a legitimate concern for a downed pilot to run into some of them. And for that you need more stopping power... I think Leopards live in Norhtner Africa as well... Hyenas live in Northern Africa... and so do crocodiles... the Western African Crocodile for example has adapted to the Sahara...the nile crocodile also had populations in Norhtern Africa. Egypt is part of Northern Africa, you see.
Schindlers List is a fictional work and I am not sure that it should be referenced for historical content. As for the weapon it was probably issued to be used to supply food for the downed pilot.
Don’t call ot a shotgun its a multi game hunting rifle made in numerous configurations. That would have been great for it. If it was that bad why did the US air force use 22 centre fire single shot pistol
for you there are many things making no sense, this rifle was for survival. when a Pilot gets lost in africa it can happen that he is alone for many weeks, nobody would look after him, water is not everything he must be able to hunt animals (70%of a Body is water, survival you remember), a luger pistol is not enough, and the shotgun-ammo what makes no sense for you eather, is good for Little animals like foxes hares or birds even for predators like Leopards, snakes, cheetahs
Maybe some dumb ass thought, "shot down in Africa. Might have to deal with Lions, tigers, hippos or elephants. Best give them an Uber weapon just in case".
The endless variety of cool German weaponry never ceases to amaze me!
According to WB Smith, ("Small Arms of the World")the Germans and Japanese never had enough of their own small arms to issue to all their personnel so when possible those taken from vanquished foes were reissued, particularly occupation forces. At the start of the attack on the Maginot Line in 1940 11 Axis Divisions were equipped with Czech produced weapons, kharma for France's doublecross at Munich in 1938 ? In the instances of the Browning HP and Polish VIS Radom, the factories taken intact resumed production for the new masters, and these were given out to front line formations preferring them. The fanatic SS in particular in the beginning of the War were step nephews of the OKW High Command regular professional Army hierarchy. Their self invterest mission was always to capture enemy material for their own use. Later in the War as the Reich was losing this changed and the SS became the elite, prioritized for the best and the most.
I guess im randomly asking but does anyone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid forgot the password. I love any help you can give me
@Benson Miguel Instablaster :)
My Dad, who was ground crew in Canada and Yorkshire with the RCAF IN WW2 would shoot skeet with a pump action .22. Utilising a .22 shot round. At the bases.
My great uncle was in the 101st Airborne during WWII and brought a drilling home with him (without the case). When I was ten years old in 1976, he brought it to a family picnic to show it off. After a lot of drinking (and the first time I ever saw drunk people) they wanted to shoot it. They didn’t have any problems with the 12 gauge barrels. However, they didn’t have the correct rifle cartridge so they used a 7mm Remington Magnum round. That caused the rifle barrel to explode and causing a 4-6 inch crack. The drilling was then sold to a gunsmith for only a couple of hundred dollars. At least I have his wartime stories to dwell on.
My father taught Arial Gunnery in the Navy during WWII, they used shotguns to teach students how to lead their sighting on the Target. He said the shells were very very weak. RIP Dad
My buddy's dad was a B24 gunner that flew off of Guam that showed me his photo album and in it was a picture of him holding a long barrel Remington Model 11 auto loading shotgun, he said they used them for aerial gunnery practice, also in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military shotguns, there's a picture of a special swiveling mount that was made that an auto loading shotgun was mounted in with .50 cal butterfly handles on the back with a mechanism connected to the trigger for aerial gunnery training in the flight schools in the US.
Also the long barreled shotguns that were the same models of the short barreled shotguns used in combat, along with the long barreled auto loading shotguns used for aerial gunnery practice and training were given to high ranking officers for recreational shooting and game hunting in their off time, these shotguns were US property marked and can be found on the collectors market, but good luck finding them because they're rarer then the trench gun versions.
It's neat to see such a unique and odd gun up close. My grandpa brought back a box of Goering's cigars and a very similar gun from WW2. From seeing this, I'm left with the notion that it's a prewar civilian ancestor to the M30 but with a bizarre stock. I really appreciate you sharing this kind of fascinating material.
This would seem to be a specific Goering idea rather than cronyism. That is, a fine Drilling is what Goering would have wanted if he were shot down and he was an ex-WW1 pilot. And if Goering thought it was a good idea, they'd have do it. That's my take. A Goering brainstorm rather than cronyism.
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I think you are right about the bribe/graft hypothesis. Regarding skeet shooting by pilots, when I was in the RCAF in the late 50's, we trained our pilots on skeet ranges. They were flying P-51-D Mustangs and practised shooting at drogues and ground targets.
Thanks for your insy
Dad was a ball turret gunner, B-24, WW2. His training included skeet shooting on his back in a slit trench giving him limited visibility - the original sporting clays.
I agree that the drilling was not used for that, just wanted to add on to the skeet training though.
You're absolutely right about aerial gunnery practice and training, my friends dad was on a B29 crew that flew off of Guam, he showed his photo album to me and in it was a photo of him on the island holding a Remington Model 11 auto loading shotgun, he told me they used them for aerial gunnery practice and for training back in the States shooting clay pigeons, also in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military Combat Shotguns, there's a picture of a special swivel mount that had an auto loading shotgun mounted in it with .50 cal type butterfly handles and a mechanism attached to the shotguns trigger that was developed for aerial gunnery training in the flight schools in the States.
Also the long barreled non combat shotguns used for aerial gunnery practice were also issued to high ranking officers for recreational shooting and game hunting while off duty, these long barreled non combat shotguns used for training and recreation are US property marked and can be found on the collectors market but good luck, they're harder to find then the combat trench guns.
You never know when an Elk, Bear, or a flock of birds may attack.
You're joking, but back then they didn't really know that the Lions in Norhtern Africa had been extinct, so they actually wanted a gun that could kill big game.
*Remember folks, there were lions in North Africa where these guns were supposed to be used at. And these lions were 50+ pounds heavier than the modern African lion. Look up Barbary Lion on Google.*
*in 1942 a picture was taken of the last known one from a female celebrity flying from Morocco to Egypt if I remember correctly.*
The Goering theory is very clever, great work !
Apparently these were also carried on flying boats as protection against polar bears and for hunting for food in the polar regions incase of the aircraft breaking down, or the crew having to rescue downed airmen/stranded shipwrecked crew in these areas, might not be true, in the UK after Dunkirk we had a shortage of weapons so the government issued 12g shotgun cartridges, I have two types, one that would of contained some sort of incendiary for training bomber crews shooting at moving targets and solid lead ball shells for issue to the homeguard for any members who owned their own shotgun.
Great input. Thanks
What food in the polar regions? Do you mean all the deer, rabbits, squirrels, and game bird that are so plentiful in a place like that? It's not like there's wood lying around all over the place to build a fire to cook them anyways, nothing about that narrative makes any sense.
Seriously, these things were a result of palm greasing for contracts and Goering gave them out to his cronies for them to use for recreational shooting in their off time, there's absolutely nothing about them that makes any sense that they'd be intended for survival use, the cases wouldn't be that big, that much work and detail wouldn't have been put into their production, nothing about the survival gun story makes sense to someone like me that's been collecting military shotguns for years, none of it adds up.
@bert smith
Dude, these are not survival rifles, color case hardening? Seriously?
If they were worried about survival they'd have been producing them in numbers instead of giving them presentation grade finishes.
There's absolutely nothing about the "survival gun" story that makes one bit of sense, they were crony guns that when old Herman handed one to someone he said "Here's a survival gun" (wink wink).
Just a couple of points. 1) shotgun shooting was absolutely part of RAF air gunner training so yes, the Germans may have done so as well. 2) military issue handguns are next to useless as a survival weapons because they are short range, inaccurate and lacking in the power necessary to kill large game or dangerous animals. 3) on the other hand, despite what you say, the drilling would have been an excellent survival weapon when issued to aircrews who had to operate in remote areas in Africa or parts of the Middle East. And 4) the US Airforce has also issued specialist firearms to it's aircrews when operating in certain parts of the world.
Shooting Trap/Skeet taught pilots to "Lead" or "deflection " shoot flying targets.
Great video. Thanks for the education and thoughtful presentation. I like how you're transparent in your thought process as this connects the dots to all the question marks I've had when handling Luft drillings. Keep up the good work
Thanks for your supportive comment.
I understand there were 3-barrel rifles at the Soyuz rescue packs at least till 25 years ago. If you come across one of these, it would be interesting showing them to us.
It also gives you perspective, for some strange reason people thought they would be useful as rescue tools . Thanx!!!
It took me a while how to switch to the rifle round in battlefield 5
I remember back in the late 60's an associate of mine had a drilling in excellent condition.Never saw one like it before nor since.I'm sure they're worth big💰💰💰💰💰💰
I can see using one to survive if forced to land in the hinterlands of Norway or Finland where it might take days or even weeks to reach civilization. Let us not overlook the possibility of them being used for recreational shooting/hunting by members of a squadron.
Africa...
Interesting story. Also thanks for showing this WW2 Luftwaffe Drilling shotguns , Sir !!!!!!!!!!!!
I read that these were survival weapons for shot down African based Stuka crews, they would have been up against elephant, lion, water buffalo, crocodiles etc and a handgun would have been useless. I am sure it was in Guns and Ammo back in the seventies or eighties, try seeing if they have any info in their archives. I seem to remember a rifled shotgun barrel and a smoothbore plus the rifle calibre below though I may be wrong on that.
No I think you’re 100% correct on why that would be needed for a downed pilot in the area.
You're going to find out that's wrong, word of advice, Guns and Ammo isn't the best source for "facts" about something like this, they have a tendency to print story's that are just hearsay that some writer figures is true because he heard it from his dad or someone he knows, I've seen more than one article from that rag that I knew immediately was bunk or found out later it was from a write up in the NRA's American Rifleman.
By far one of the coolest war trophy’s
I’ve read that Goering was a big game hunter and liked the idea of living off the land if you were shot down and could protect yourself from big cats, buffaloes etc in Africa. Very Biggles goes forth but that was his generation.
Love the videos! Keep them coming.
You're right about a few things AND you're wrong about a few things, first off, American military combat shotguns that were procured that were just regular civilian production police shotguns modified for combat use with bayonet lug/handguard assemblies also had the regular long barrel civilian versions procured for aerial gunnery practice, my friends dad was a B29 gunner and I saw a picture in his photo album of him on Guam holding a Remington Model 11, he said that they used them for aerial gunnery practice and that they also used similar auto loading shotguns during their initial aerial gunnery training in the States, there was even a special fixture on a stand designed that they clamped them into that had the same type of butterfly handles that a .50 cal had for them to get the feel of shooting from a B17 or B24 while shooting clay pigeons, pictures of that stand with an auto loading shotgun in it are in Bruce Canfield's book; US Military Combat Shotguns, the regular long barreled shotguns were ALSO procured for high ranking officers for sport and game recreational shooting, US property marked long barreled versions of shotguns are on the collectors market.
So yes, the shotgun you have there was most likely not produced for survival reasons by aircrews and undoubtedly them being gifts for contracts is true, the reasons you listed are all correct along with the fact that the handle on the case would not only tie up a hand while someone would be bailing out of a plane but would also undoubtedly break or be dropped from the G forces of a parachute deploying even if someone did manage to bail out and manipulate their ripcord onehanded with one of them in their other hand, if it was intended for that it certainly wouldn't be in such a large case and it undoubtedly would have a means for it to be attached to the pilot via rings and clips, also where in the world would a fighter pilot keep one on the cockpit of a fighter.
So yes there's no doubt they were a result of "palm greasing" for contracts and most likely their use was recreational shooting and game hunting (not for survival hunting of game) by officers in their off time.
And yes the color case hardening is gorgeous on that.
As a footnote, my dad had a friend that brought back a pair of perfectly matched double barreled shotguns he took from a castle when his infantry unit rolled through Germany that were in a beautiful wood case that had the most beautiful engravings and were a perfect duplicate of each other, they were for some "lord of the manner" to hunt from a blind while the "serfs" drove game through the brush towards him and have an assistant loading one while he shot the other, hence the fact that they were perfect duplicates of one another.
Duke Craig That matched pair that your dads friend had were most likely British made SxS. A Driven pheasant hunting matched pair. Very popular with the rich. I have a modern matched pair that I use, a SxS is lethal on pheasants out to 70 yards.
@@victortamini847
No, they were German, they came from a castle that the guys unit went through, I don't know if I ever did know the manufacturer but they were German made.
They had plenty of shotgun manufacturers in Germany like Heym, Kriegoff, Merkel, J.P. Sauer, and H.A. Linder that made matched set shotguns.
Suhl was most likely the region they were made in, it was the epicenter of guilding and master gunsmithing in Germany back in the day.
Duke Craig Too bad, they are probably lost to history now... hopefully whoever owns them now kept him as a matched pair.
dreiling. they are called dreilings. drei in German is 3. it was mispronounced by english speakers and referred to since incorrectly as a drilling. hunting guns made for wild boar in the schwarzwald and bavarian mountains.
As a German i must tell you, that you are wrong! Drilling is correct. Zwei, but Zwilling ( twin), but this is only used for children, rifles with two barrels are called Doppelbüchse (double rifle) , a shotgun is a Doppelflinte ( double shotgun), a combination gun with one rifled and one smoothbore barrel is a Büchsflinte (rifleshotgun). These are the german words for side-by-side versions, over and unter versions have the word Bock before the name. Drei, but Drilling (triplett) both for children and guns. A Drilling has usually two smoothbore barrel and one rifle barrel (standard Drilling), a Drilling with two rifle barrels and one smoothbore barrel is a Doppelbüchsdrilling, a Drilling with three rifle barrels is a Büchsendrilling and a Drilling with three smoothbore barrels is a Flintendrilling. And when the three barrels are over and under in line then you have to add the word Bock in front. With numbers higher than three you only must use the number and add ling. A gun with für barrels is a Vierling, to describe the different versions you must use the same system. Vierlinge exist, but only custom made by good gunmaker craftsmen. A gun with five barrels would be a Fünfling, etc., but i do not know, if this exists. And before i forget it, a rifle with one small bore barrel and one large bore barrel is a Bergstutzen. Rather simple, isn't it ;-)?
I own one in 16x16x8 mm JRS.
It is almost new and very very accurate . The reciver is silver coated and hand engraved, The trigger guard is made of something like black ivory but no Luftwaffe eagle on barrel or stock. I would like to discover more about that fine gun .
Sauer and Krieghoff (both in Germany) made a lot of specialty shotguns for hunters all over Europe and the US. Drillings as well as they were uniquely a German product. When in good condition they are definitely very collectible. We only buy/ sell the Luftwaffe guns as we specialize in wartime memorabilia. Perhaps one of our other viewers can comment on your gun as it is not something I am familiar with. Best wishes for the new year.
@@thomaswhiteman4261
Thanks. Happy New year.
The trigger guard is most likely water buffalo horn I own a drilling and also looked at others they were all horn butt plates, pistol grip cap and trigger guard. I also think all the Nazi guns were 12 gage
@@davidlange7916 Thanks for enlightenment.
I have one . and very hard to value it. mine dated 1927. theses where made all the way back to late 1800s. I read somewhere they where also made for very wealthy hunters that didn't want to carry to guns on Safari hunts. and also could take up to over a year to be made.
Yes Daniel. I believe you are correct on all of that.
The Drilling was formerly rather popular in the german speaking countries, they are still in production. When you want something expensive, you must look for a Vierling, they are only made by gunsmiths.
Excellent 👍
Years ago I had a Drillings in 16 x 16 x 9.3 x 74r ? if my memory still works. It was made in Stuhl. I can't remember the makers name, but I remember that it had cocking pin indicators. Did any of these Luftwaffe guns have cocking pin indicators?
I know at the time they were our enemies, but they sure turned out some quality weapons. I also believe that Goering probably had a lot of influence into who did what and who got what because he was a showman and a flash Cadillac.
Pretty sure the Luftwaffe didn’t issue “Churchill” birdshot!
LOL I tought the same thing
I heard they were big fans of Churchill
Tom, This was great info as I always wondered as you have "This is a survival gun". It never made any sense to me. It's big, heavy and it would have to be in the airplane. Most aircrews would have bailed out. Thanks Tom. Great video.
David Abell this is so incredibly german its difficult to understand. A handmade qaulity shotgun for the possiblity of a crash...
@@mrijk1946
My thought too.
@Dirtyd23
You mean all that game that's in the desert in North Africa? All the squirrels, rabbits, deer and game birds in the Sahara desert? Or all the wood that's lying around to make a fire to cook them with?
The thought that it's a survival gun is ridiculous, they were a product of palms being greased for production contracts being given out and they were given to crony's of Goering's for off duty recreational shooting and hunting, the US military also issued high ranking officers shotguns that are US military property marked for the same reasons, officers have it like that, and if you ever find something like this in combat you better hide it or some jack-off officer will take it away from you and he'll be the one showing it off to his friends after the war telling them all about how it came from a German officer he killed in deadly hand to hand combat.
This may come a complete surprise but Russia was also involved in WW2 apparently to periphereal to mention.
Huge thank you to the Russians who sacrificed more than any other Country in WW2.
good information . keep up the good work.
The box of ammo you showed was produced in the 1980s.
I have no use for one but I like it oh nice for home defense 🤷♂️
In BF5 it works great.
And the British did some butt kicking especially in North Africa!
Indeed they did !! They went through a lot of bleak days but hung in there until (together with their allies) they were able to turn the tide against the Nazi threat. Three cheers for the Brits !!
@@thomaswhiteman4261 I have to admit I bet there were a few happy faces when the yanks arrived at the party. I'm British and I have to admit the yank GI's looked a lot cooler that the brit tommys. I think respect to all those guys who fought for freedoms many take for granted today.
The American Air Force did use shotguns to help train aerial gunners riding in the back of trucks shooting at targets.
Just a small remark but still:
Showing Schindler's list as documentary illustration for anything is a bit off, as a book "Schindler's Ark" that it was based upon was awarded following literature prices:
1. The Man Booker Prize for FICTION in 1982 and
2. Los Angeles Times Book Prize for FICTION in 1983.
Agramer Old Octane schindlers list is partly authentic, but the context of the story is true, schindler saved a lot of jews from the deathcamp by asking for much more workers than needed, i have been in Krakow several times and visited Schindlers factory and the concentation camp (Plaszow) figured in the book and movie, the commandants house (Amon Goeth) is still standing, (Amon Goeth was removed as commandant by the SS due to the return commision he got from local factory/business owners and the theft of jewish property which belonged to the German state, as it was revealed by his book keeper in the book/movie, after the war Amon Goeth was judged to hanging by a Polish court, here is video of his hanging, he was first succesfully hanged by the 3 attempt, its said that they made the rope to long intentionally) ruclips.net/video/wlB1HJIpbiM/видео.html
@@boboman67 I am Polish and aware of the background. However movie is not documentary, and parts of it should not be used as such, otherwise next we might use "Saving private Ryan" or " Inglorious bastards" as documentary movies.
Agramer Old Octane
But here its used in the context or example of how the need for workers might have saved some lives, in that context it is okay to use schindler as an example. Another thing was if some scenes of the movie where used as examples, the historical facts says that Schindler saved about 1200 lives due to his demand of labour. I think it was a great example. (The vlogger talking about the demand of workers in the german war industry actually saving lives)
Where can I get a replacement hand guard for one of these?
They hunted a lot in their areas they were in also, not only as survival guns, but also as recreation weapons. Shotguns Merkel for qualification training used, look up German Hunting Guns page, a wondeeful site for info that i appreciate very much.
Reason for 9,3 is that in several African areas 9,3x62 and 74 was minimum for Grosswild , and Dangerous game like buffalo, lion,elephant ,leopard. Rhino. Ammo was Tug Torpedo Universal Geschoss,,and Solid 293 grain Rws or Brenneke ammo,as Brenneke designed it back then. As it was issued with, but a lot of 9,3 ammo around today.
Shotgunammo, bird,buck, Brenneke Kugel, the hard slug ammo Willhelm Brenneke designed capable of dangerous game ,and classic for boar,bear.
Pick up a Ruger nr 1 and its cheap versatile ammo.
Going to look for a drilling over here this year, for me a 9,3 is high on list.
Instead of being shot down or crashing there were other options: Bad weather, sandstorm, engine failure, running out of fuel, etc forcing you to land in African wilderness.
"They had a sidearm. So, you already had a sidearm, why do you need a Drilling?"
Surviving or even hunting with a pistol in African wilderness? Yeah, sounds like a challenge.
"Why do you need a drilling?" its a big boomstick thats why
Of course a Drilling is not a combat weapon however it is a great survival gun. You can shoot small game with shot and big game by using the rifle barrel or slugs. It‘s also incorrect to say a Drilling is a shotgun! A Drilling is a combination gun which is perfect for hunting.
The fact they issued this without a Single Action Revolver to pair it up with disgusts me .
I have a conjecture. If Your were shot down, if You are running around in the woods and try to hide, if You are seen with a handgun, You are an enemy trying to hide, but walking around with an high end shotgun, You are hunting. Sounds good until You have not one but two eagles with the Swastika in their talons. So no, it was not that. It would have been better with shorter barrels, 20 instead of 12 gauge, one barrel of that, one for .22LR could be hidden as a normal barrel 8inches long, nearly a suppressed gun then, and for long range, or hunting 5.6x52 R, it would be a light gun for survival, and NO Swastikas at all, maybe marked as and old Belgian gun, that could be found world wide.
I have one made by Simpson Co. & Suhl. I am struggling to find any info on it. Could anyone help?
Good vid!
The m30 luftwaffe drilling is a combination rifle
while the Germans were stamping this piece of art, the Russians were building 4 T34's
Kind of big to be hauling around in the desert I wounder how much were diched
Not to mention all the squirrels, rabbits, deer and game birds that AREN'T in a desert to hunt, along with all the firewood that ISN'T in a desert to cook them after you don't find anything to shoot.
They weren't survival guns, they were a product of palm greasing from contracts and they were given to crony's for off duty recreational shooting and hunting.
There isn't a single thing about them being survival guns that makes any sense.
I do like the Sniper Elite drilling
it's a shame to see the military version of the sporter October fest farm combo rifle
......... I can "smell some jealousy" in the air....... yeah, unfortunately it's NOT American! This drilling is a fine example of what German engineers were capable of...... they were ahead of all others in designing and product quality and to some extend they still are! (Look at the cars or the motorcycles they make!) Their shotguns and rifles are stil among the best there are available worldwide! Nice video overall w/plenty of information! Thank you for sharing!..... I just don't agree with some of your comments...... it may be my idea but, they seem a little bit ironic!
Air gunners defo did shotgun shooting as part of their program.
You might be thinking
"Why would they need this in North Africa?"
Well, folks, enter the now regionally extinct Barbary Lion. A lion hell of a lot more heavier than the modern African Lion.
the last recorded shooting of a wild Barbary lion took place in *1942* near Tizi n'Tichka in the Atlas Mountains. A small remnant population may have survived in remote montane areas into the early 1960s
I might be one of the few people that had no doubt that I’d want as big of a rifle as I could carry out there. I don’t think people realize there’s places like the ocean where we (humans) are not the king of the jungle.
I'm sure it was a honor issue, a gift for pilots who deserves, a weapon form of medals. I'm sure 'cause this rutine (girft weapons as service decorations) is known from Royal Army of Austria-Hungary (austria was a part of 3.reich then, and Hitler was native austrian).
Must of been One hell of a salesman
It is suicide weapon.I think also you can carry weapons without the box...
Before you even mentioned it I knew it was cronyism.
If I were shotdown in Africa I would definitely rather have the security of the Drilling over the insecurity of a Luger Sidearm. A 400 lb lion isnt likely to fall using a luger
Theory was better then the history of the gun lol
9,3 x 74 R - die Königin der Randpatronen.
nice history lesson. now about the gun?
I'd personally love to take this thing hunting.
Seriously, the Germans could've issued this shotgun to the Luftwaffe paratroopers.
Yup, never more than a "trophy gun".
Not much different than the ceremonial swords that were common in western Europe just a few generations before that.
my grandpa has one
I think it's probably a survival gun pilots. 🤔
Um, there actually aren't any lions, tigers, water buffalo, or crocodiles in North Africa.
Camels, maybe.
Exactly, not to mention that there also ISN'T rabbits, squirrels, deer or game birds to shoot for survival much wood laying around to build a fire to cook them in the desert, it's a ridiculous idea that they're desert survival guns, they're definitely a product of palms being greased for production contracts and that they were given to crony's of Goering for recreational shooting and game hunting in their off time.
Regular civilian versions of the US shotguns that were modified for combat were issued to high ranking US officers for the same recreational purposes in their off time, they do however bear the same US property markings that are found on the combat shotguns, good luck finding one, I've been collecting US military shotguns for 30 years and have only ever seen pictures of them.
@@dukecraig2402 Exactly... wrong. There was the Barbary lion, the last group of which had been sighted in 1942... today they are extinct, but back then it could've been a legitimate concern for a downed pilot to run into some of them. And for that you need more stopping power... I think Leopards live in Norhtner Africa as well... Hyenas live in Northern Africa... and so do crocodiles... the Western African Crocodile for example has adapted to the Sahara...the nile crocodile also had populations in Norhtern Africa. Egypt is part of Northern Africa, you see.
Maybe it’s to take down a big game animal if they try to attack you in Africa and the side arm is for enemy soldiers
Skeet for USAAF aerial gunnery school.
Cuisine royale brought me here
Incredible war booty
Schindlers List is a fictional work and I am not sure that it should be referenced for historical content. As for the weapon it was probably issued to be used to supply food for the downed pilot.
Don’t call ot a shotgun its a multi game hunting rifle made in numerous configurations.
That would have been great for it. If it was that bad why did the US air force use 22 centre fire single shot pistol
Just give me a Walther p38 a bottle of Scotch and a few fish hooks and I'll be ight
Luckily the Americans came in and singlehandedly won the war.
for you there are many things making no sense, this rifle was for survival. when a Pilot gets lost in africa it can happen that he is alone for many weeks, nobody would look after him, water is not everything he must be able to hunt animals (70%of a Body is water, survival you remember), a luger pistol is not enough, and the shotgun-ammo what makes no sense for you eather, is good for Little animals like foxes hares or birds even for predators like Leopards, snakes, cheetahs
Stolen ??
I have one and its for sale
Maybe some dumb ass thought, "shot down in Africa. Might have to deal with Lions, tigers, hippos or elephants. Best give them an Uber weapon just in case".
Pronounced DRYling.
Rock island Auctions have a better explanation rather than your opinion
P