In my experience the metal flange in this video sits flush on the finished tiled floor (as you explained/diagramed in your video). However, the PVC flange should sit flush on the subfloor or concrete (not on the tile). You should then tile around the PVC flange. Notice the metal flange has a much lower frofile on the lip (less than 1/4"). But the PVC flange has a 7/16" lip. This would cause you to compress the wax ring too much (compromising the seal). This can lead to a leaking toilet or even a wobbly toilet if your tile was just the littlest bit uneven. This is the reason why there is so much conflicting information online about where the toilet flange should sit on (the subfloor or concrete vs tile). Recap: metal flange should rest on finished tile floor. PVC flange should rest on subfloor or concrete.. then tiled around.
Thank you.. I didn't know if I have to cut the 3 in pvc pipe after putting th e tile or after..tahnk you so much none of those videos show that main point.
What does one use to pass 3" PVC thru a residential wood floor and maintain a good seal around the penetration? This is not going to a toilet. It's the pipe for crawlspace radon mitigation, going up and thru the roof. I'm tempted to use a threaded bulkhead connector, but is there another way? I want to both hold the pipe like a riser clamp, yet have a good seal. Can a pipe be glued into the top of the closet flange, in other words, is the top of the closet flange a socket?
You can get the P.V.C. flanges in two versions. Female that will glue onto the outside of the pipe (full diameter) or male versions that will glue to the inside of the pipe. The male versions will slightly decrease the inner diameter, but for toilet installs it will not effect the toilets performance.
FINALLY!!!!! *huge sigh of relief* ... and Im gonna do something I’ve never done before! Comment! A life long story? Lol If I could hug you I would! My dad was a contractor and did any and everything we needed done. I regret not ever asking questions or paying attention to anything! He passed away unexpectedly a few years ago. He had so much more he planned on doing to the house... even left a couple of slabs of concrete w pipes sticking out where he was going to open up and build on. That’ll never happen now! 😩😕.... I’m still young and sadly a single mom.. decided to move in with my mom to make sure she stays busy! Gotta keep her company! Well.... our pipes backed up and it took me too long to find out I needed to get up on the roof and snake out a vent pipe... ended up backing up into the restroom... I had a friends husband replace our toilet several months ago and I’m thinking maybe he didn’t glue the flange to the pipe? I removed the toilet and it looks like water has been leaking under the tile for a while. The grout has even gone away and the top part of the flange is broken in half... so I started cleaning out the wax to check things out and ugh the screws even rusted so bad they broke in half and came right up with the wax! gonna have to figure out how to get those out too... thankfully my dad has all kinds of tools I’m getting to know! ALLLL that... life long story lol to say thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! THANK YOU!
Sorry to hear about your Dad, sounds like my type of guy as I perform everything needed in my household. I have two daughters who have followed my lead and totally self-sufficient when it comes to getting things done around the house. Thanks again for commenting and checking out the video! This may also help you out:ruclips.net/video/nCT_amw2EC0/видео.html. Regards, Bob.
BobsPlumbingVideos Wow! Thanks for reading all that and so much more thanks for the reply with another much needed video attached! Your daughters are VERY lucky to have a dad like you! I’m so thankful I found your channel.... looking forward to more learning... Subscribed and checking out old vids. You’ve been a breath of fresh air, thanks again
Great info Bob! This was explained with perfection between the two differences. I'm in the process of installing 3 bathrooms in my home and this was well needed! Thanks again the video!
Thanks a lot for such an instructional video. Is it okay to use 4 to 3 inches elbow? I have a cast iron flange connected to 4 inches elbow and the elbow going to 3 inches pipe. I am replacing the whole thing with either PVC or ABC. But I wonder if I have to use 4 to 3 inches elbow without creating any future problems as it will work like a funnel.
I have a cast iron sewer pipe will this flange work in an ID that is 3 3/4 inches? The opening measures 3 3/4 inches across in diameter. If not, can you recommend a flange that will work?
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Wanted to say TY ... it worked. After replacing the rotted flooring with 2 layers of 5/8 inch plywood, I still had to grind down the sewer pipe about 1/4 - 3/8's to get it level with the floor ... the flange wouldn't lie on the plywood for screwing otherwise ...
nice vid!!! great job, regaridng pvc flange, what happens if the pvc johny hole slots bend or crack from over torquing the toilet bolts , like it did wth my almunium flange? thanks
That's the down side ot P.V.C. flanges, I guess the simple answer is don't over torque. Or use the P.V.C. w/ metal flange version, preferably the stainless steel version.
@@BobsPlumbingVideos thanks Bob, was waitin 4ur reply. I knew u 'd say that abot pvc-no thanks. so i called my builder, warranty is expired, 6yrs old now, theres missing bolts to the rite side of the flange, they never put in ( they will not fix it), so the right toilet johny bolt cannt b torqued down so seepage occurs slightly, wat can i do? also, i have a aluminum looking flange, and b/c i over torqued ,its kind of lifting up from the rite side and the slots are bending so i think i nede new one, not sure how to get that out b/c i believe the base is glued to the sewer pipe, it could be pvc-aluminum hybrid flange, fyi- its 1st floor cement/tile., any help is appreciated! thanks
The ideal install is to secure the flange to the subfloor or tile if possible. If that's not possible, after the install and testing for leaks use a good quality latex based silicone caulk around the edge of the bowl. Once dry, that bowl will not move. amzn.to/3TC1S3P
@@BobsPlumbingVideos None of the videos I've watched have shown how to secure the flange ( fustrating). It sounds as if the flange needs to sit on top of the tile and a special drill bit will need to be used to penitratrate through the ceramic/ porcelain tile, correct ? Also do you recommend any type of screws ? Last question , I'm building a bathroom in a butlers entrance (small closet like structure) where there were 3 stairs leading down into the dining room, have built a frame to hold the subfloor but the drop from the flange down into the basement will be about a 3 foot straight drop, before connecting to the closet bend (turning & connecting to the main line). Most videos I've seen the closet bend starts right away. I would think the 3 foot drop would only be better for pushing waste & liquid. Do you precieve this as a problem? I really appreciate you answering, thank you. 😊
I wouldn't use glue because what if the flange breaks how will you remove it? I would think silicone at least you have a better chance to remove it or maybe don't do anything?
Thanks for your help. I have a flange that fits into a 3 inch pipe however the opening on top of the flange is only 2 1/2” wide open. What type of wax ring/gasket do I get to put on top of the flange? The pipe is flush with the floor and I can’t get a flange that fits over the pipe since the concrete is in the way
When placing a toilet on the non adjustable flange couldn't you temporarily mount the toilet to the flange using the bolts, glue it down and then take it off. The bolt location should then be fine without any possibility of mis-alignment?
Hey Bob How to you work a four inch pvc flange into a 4 inch lead pipe. Do you insert the flange into the 4 inch pipe and do you tap it in if there is some resistance.
What if the drain pipe is a little less than an inch below finished flooring? I am currently about to install underlay for vinyl plank flooring and am planning ahead. Should I make a spacer out of 3/4 inch plywood to raise the subfloor and then add the underlay so that the flange will sit on top of the finished floor to correct the problem? Then I could use a screw in flange with the rubber gasket on it?
that is tapcons to the concrete? ... The old install had only the flange and over a period of 4-5 years with very minimal usage the toilet began to wobble
No hot water coming out of a bathtub two feet from hot water heater, pipes are hot but hot water trickles and cold water flows fine. I replaced the cartridge, now I'm thinking there is a collapsed joint on the hot side. Any other thoughts?
Sounds like something is caught up in the hot water side. Try removing the cartridge and opening up the hot water supply to blow out any possible debris. Also look at the cartridge to make sure nothing is caught up inside.
Seems like the #1 goof I read about is installing the flange on subfloor and not on top of the tile/finished floor. You do mention to 'imagine this is tile' several times but think you might do future vid's with some tile laying there to illustrate. So, if you haven't had the tile laid yet I presume you wait for that to be done and then glue in your flange? More a statement than a question as I'm pretty sure of that. Only tip I might give those watching your vids is not to rotate the flange shown on the right all the way to the final bolt engagement... or... very end of slot. I'd leave 1/2" or so just so that you'll have a bit of wiggle room to get the toilet installed perpindicular to the wall. Yes, theoretically if you put the ends of the slots exactly parallel to the wall, the result will be a toilet installed with that perfect 90 degree to the wall.. but if you leave a little wiggle room it doesn't hurt a thing since the head of the bolt will still be waaaaay inside the slot. Cheers!! PS: What's with the gloves!? ;-)
BobsPlumbingVideos In the left example if you were to bring the fitting up flush with the finished surface you run the risk of the flange not sitting flush with the floor. If you look at that flange you have the straight portion that glues into the fitting followed by the upper portion that widens just below the flange which is approx 3/4" in height. This is why I'll keep the fitting about 3/4" below the sub-floor. don't forget in the left example it's a fitting you're gluing into and in the right example you're gluing directly into the pipe where the flange is completely flat on the bottom. Hpe that helps!
Here in the city, we're supposed to use long turn / short turn sweeps a.k.a long pattern elbows. but in a retro fit situation, I'll use short 90's because in most cases that's all that will fit.
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Yahtzee! You are spot on... in fact the passageway inside the toilet is typically 2-1/8" if you read the specs on a toilet. I've seen people poo-poo (pun intended) using 3" for toilet connection and while I prefer 4" as optimal... 3" PVC shouldn't be an issue. I mean... they make 3" PVC flanges so it stands to reason, right?! Cheers on a great vid! Very helpful!!
I’ve got a broken pvc flange that is glued to the outside of the vertical pipe. Can I cut much of the old flange out, clean the inside of the existing pipe and glue a new flange to the inside of the existing pipe?
You should be able to, what size pipe? You would have to remove most of the existing flange first, make sure the pipe is flush or just a bit below the finished floor. Then just glue in a 3" or 4" internal flange.
In my experience the metal flange in this video sits flush on the finished tiled floor (as you explained/diagramed in your video). However, the PVC flange should sit flush on the subfloor or concrete (not on the tile). You should then tile around the PVC flange. Notice the metal flange has a much lower frofile on the lip (less than 1/4"). But the PVC flange has a 7/16" lip. This would cause you to compress the wax ring too much (compromising the seal). This can lead to a leaking toilet or even a wobbly toilet if your tile was just the littlest bit uneven. This is the reason why there is so much conflicting information online about where the toilet flange should sit on (the subfloor or concrete vs tile). Recap: metal flange should rest on finished tile floor. PVC flange should rest on subfloor or concrete.. then tiled around.
Wow. Thank you. How is it so difficult to find info like this?
Love your videos! I’m a first year plumbers apprentice and your videos have helped me immensely
Thank you so much for checking out my videos ! Very much appreciated, glad they helped you. Regards, Bob.
Great video. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for getting straight to the point instead of the 5 min intro I usually see.
Thanks much for watching, please subscribe I have much more in store! Regards, Bob.
Thank you Bob! After watching it is pretty simple. Like all plumbing, things can be intimidating if you have never done them before.
Excellent video! One of the most articulately explaned videos i've seen!
Best explanation on RUclips. Thanks Bob
You're welcome, thanks for checking out the video. Bob.
The blue flange is a street ? The first one you demonstrated. The second one appears to be more common
Yes, it's a street (male) made to glue into a fitting.
Thank you.. I didn't know if I have to cut the 3 in pvc pipe after putting th e tile or after..tahnk you so much none of those videos show that main point.
Glad I could help
What does one use to pass 3" PVC thru a residential wood floor and maintain a good seal around the penetration? This is not going to a toilet. It's the pipe for crawlspace radon mitigation, going up and thru the roof. I'm tempted to use a threaded bulkhead connector, but is there another way? I want to both hold the pipe like a riser clamp, yet have a good seal. Can a pipe be glued into the top of the closet flange, in other words, is the top of the closet flange a socket?
You can get the P.V.C. flanges in two versions. Female that will glue onto the outside of the pipe (full diameter) or male versions that will glue to the inside of the pipe. The male versions will slightly decrease the inner diameter, but for toilet installs it will not effect the toilets performance.
Great video Bob. On a scale of 1 to 10, it's an ELEVEN.
Thank you bob.. blessed be the plumbers the world's sanatizers!! I'm a pipefitter sooo.. you know how that goes 😉
I'm doing the 3" on your left, so thanks!
Great video others show you how take off the one their doing it this video clear my question
awesome! Thanks for this video!
FINALLY!!!!! *huge sigh of relief* ... and Im gonna do something I’ve never done before! Comment! A life long story? Lol If I could hug you I would! My dad was a contractor and did any and everything we needed done. I regret not ever asking questions or paying attention to anything! He passed away unexpectedly a few years ago. He had so much more he planned on doing to the house... even left a couple of slabs of concrete w pipes sticking out where he was going to open up and build on. That’ll never happen now! 😩😕.... I’m still young and sadly a single mom.. decided to move in with my mom to make sure she stays busy! Gotta keep her company! Well.... our pipes backed up and it took me too long to find out I needed to get up on the roof and snake out a vent pipe... ended up backing up into the restroom... I had a friends husband replace our toilet several months ago and I’m thinking maybe he didn’t glue the flange to the pipe? I removed the toilet and it looks like water has been leaking under the tile for a while. The grout has even gone away and the top part of the flange is broken in half... so I started cleaning out the wax to check things out and ugh the screws even rusted so bad they broke in half and came right up with the wax! gonna have to figure out how to get those out too... thankfully my dad has all kinds of tools I’m getting to know! ALLLL that... life long story lol to say thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! THANK YOU!
Sorry to hear about your Dad, sounds like my type of guy as I perform everything needed in my household. I have two daughters who have followed my lead and totally self-sufficient when it comes to getting things done around the house. Thanks again for commenting and checking out the video! This may also help you out:ruclips.net/video/nCT_amw2EC0/видео.html. Regards, Bob.
BobsPlumbingVideos Wow! Thanks for reading all that and so much more thanks for the reply with another much needed video attached! Your daughters are VERY lucky to have a dad like you! I’m so thankful I found your channel.... looking forward to more learning... Subscribed and checking out old vids. You’ve been a breath of fresh air, thanks again
@@Monica_1900 My old videos were a work in progress, UGH! Hopefully getting better at it! LOL! Thanks again, Bob.
This video really helped me and I appreciate it.
Great info Bob! This was explained with perfection between the two differences. I'm in the process of installing 3 bathrooms in my home and this was well needed! Thanks again the video!
Wow, I don't know how I missed this! My apologizes for the late reply and thank you for watching.HAPPY PLUMBING!
Thanks a lot for such an instructional video. Is it okay to use 4 to 3 inches elbow? I have a cast iron flange connected to 4 inches elbow and the elbow going to 3 inches pipe. I am replacing the whole thing with either PVC or ABC. But I wonder if I have to use 4 to 3 inches elbow without creating any future problems as it will work like a funnel.
I don't see why not, thanks for checking out the video. Much appreciated. Bob
you didn't mention the push tight flange which is better option specially when you decide to remodel the bathroom in the future.
Thanks for your teaching video tutorial!
I have a cast iron sewer pipe will this flange work in an ID that is 3 3/4 inches?
The opening measures 3 3/4 inches across in diameter.
If not, can you recommend a flange that will work?
Check this video out! I'm pretty sure these will do the trick..ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Thanks man ... I guess I'll go with the allen key expanded option ... gonna do the danco wax thing on top I'm thinking ...
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Wanted to say TY ... it worked. After replacing the rotted flooring with 2 layers of 5/8 inch plywood, I still had to grind down the sewer pipe about 1/4 - 3/8's to get it level with the floor ... the flange wouldn't lie on the plywood for screwing otherwise ...
So the flange on the right ( your left) looks to sit about a 1/2 above floor ? Everything i read says 1/4 maximum?? Or flush
Don't believe everything you read or see, especially RUclips!👍
nice vid!!! great job, regaridng pvc flange, what happens if the pvc johny hole slots bend or crack from over torquing the toilet bolts , like it did wth my almunium flange? thanks
That's the down side ot P.V.C. flanges, I guess the simple answer is don't over torque. Or use the P.V.C. w/ metal flange version, preferably the stainless steel version.
@@BobsPlumbingVideos thanks Bob, was waitin 4ur reply. I knew u 'd say that abot pvc-no thanks. so i called my builder, warranty is expired, 6yrs old now, theres missing bolts to the rite side of the flange, they never put in ( they will not fix it), so the right toilet johny bolt cannt b torqued down so seepage occurs slightly, wat can i do? also, i have a aluminum looking flange, and b/c i over torqued ,its kind of lifting up from the rite side and the slots are bending so i think i nede new one, not sure how to get that out b/c i believe the base is glued to the sewer pipe, it could be pvc-aluminum hybrid flange, fyi- its 1st floor cement/tile., any help is appreciated! thanks
So does the flange get secured to the tile in any way or does it just sit on top of it
The ideal install is to secure the flange to the subfloor or tile if possible. If that's not possible, after the install and testing for leaks use a good quality latex based silicone caulk around the edge of the bowl. Once dry, that bowl will not move.
amzn.to/3TC1S3P
@@BobsPlumbingVideos
None of the videos I've watched have shown how to secure the flange ( fustrating). It sounds as if the flange needs to sit on top of the tile and a special drill bit will need to be used to penitratrate through the ceramic/ porcelain tile, correct ? Also do you recommend any type of screws ?
Last question , I'm building a bathroom in a butlers entrance (small closet like structure) where there were 3 stairs leading down into the dining room, have built a frame to hold the subfloor but the drop from the flange down into the basement will be about a 3 foot straight drop, before connecting to the closet bend (turning & connecting to the main line).
Most videos I've seen the closet bend starts right away. I would think the 3 foot drop would only be better for pushing waste & liquid. Do you precieve this as a problem?
I really appreciate you answering, thank you. 😊
I wouldn't use glue because what if the flange breaks how will you remove it? I would think silicone at least you have a better chance to remove it or maybe don't do anything?
Thanks for the video. Exactly the info I needed.
Thank you! for checking out the video. Regards, Bob.
I've had the PVC flange break at the bolt slot twice. Are the ones with the stainless steel ring better and less likely to corrode?
You have to be able to securely screw them down to the subfloor or you'll have issues regardless of what material.
Thanks for your help. I have a flange that fits into a 3 inch pipe however the opening on top of the flange is only 2 1/2” wide open. What type of wax ring/gasket do I get to put on top of the flange? The pipe is flush with the floor and I can’t get a flange that fits over the pipe since the concrete is in the way
I would use a traditional wax gasket without the horn. If everything is level, you should have no problems.
When placing a toilet on the non adjustable flange couldn't you temporarily mount the toilet to the flange using the bolts, glue it down and then take it off. The bolt location should then be fine without any possibility of mis-alignment?
I've never done that, but Sure why not?
Hey Bob How to you work a four inch pvc flange into a 4 inch lead pipe. Do you insert the flange into the 4 inch pipe and do you tap it in if there is some resistance.
bit.ly/3lvFOrf
Why do you have to glue it since it goes inside the pipe? How would it ever come out?
Job security? Why not glue it? In theory you may be correct, but if a serious stoppage were to take place that could cause a leak.
I’m changeing a flang and the lead is broke not in good shape. Can I put. A pvc 3” flange that has rubber. With three bolts
Check this out - bit.ly/3aOwMQ4
What if the drain pipe is a little less than an inch below finished flooring? I am currently about to install underlay for vinyl plank flooring and am planning ahead. Should I make a spacer out of 3/4 inch plywood to raise the subfloor and then add the underlay so that the flange will sit on top of the finished floor to correct the problem? Then I could use a screw in flange with the rubber gasket on it?
Absolutely use the 3/4" plywood to bring it up and then screw the flange down. You'll be good to go!
that is tapcons to the concrete? ... The old install had only the flange and over a period of 4-5 years with very minimal usage the toilet began to wobble
Thanks Bob, very helpful
Thank you David!
Do you install the flange first in new construction then run the pvc pipes to the flange or piping first then the flange?
I was taught and still install the pipe first and then the flange. Whether is glues over the pipe or in the pipe. Regards, Bob.
Im installing the flange and toilet to sub and layer gonna pipe to septic tank need to shim up for finish floor right ?
Correct! Flush would be ideal but you could go as much as 1/4" above the finished floor and still be good to go.
Thank you helpful but y is there rubber boot ting under flamge
Rubber Boot? Not quite sure what you're referring to?
No hot water coming out of a bathtub two feet from hot water heater, pipes are hot but hot water trickles and cold water flows fine. I replaced the cartridge, now I'm thinking there is a collapsed joint on the hot side. Any other thoughts?
Sounds like something is caught up in the hot water side. Try removing the cartridge and opening up the hot water supply to blow out any possible debris. Also look at the cartridge to make sure nothing is caught up inside.
Thank you❣️👍
You are so welcome
Would the pvc flange screw directly to the subfloor or would it go over whatever flooring that’s over the subfloor
I would try my best to secure it to the subfloor. Even if you must drill through tile to do it.
Seems like the #1 goof I read about is installing the flange on subfloor and not on top of the tile/finished floor. You do mention to 'imagine this is tile' several times but think you might do future vid's with some tile laying there to illustrate. So, if you haven't had the tile laid yet I presume you wait for that to be done and then glue in your flange? More a statement than a question as I'm pretty sure of that. Only tip I might give those watching your vids is not to rotate the flange shown on the right all the way to the final bolt engagement... or... very end of slot. I'd leave 1/2" or so just so that you'll have a bit of wiggle room to get the toilet installed perpindicular to the wall. Yes, theoretically if you put the ends of the slots exactly parallel to the wall, the result will be a toilet installed with that perfect 90 degree to the wall.. but if you leave a little wiggle room it doesn't hurt a thing since the head of the bolt will still be waaaaay inside the slot. Cheers!!
PS: What's with the gloves!? ;-)
Is it necessary to use tapcons to secure the flange?
You could use tap cons w/no problem. On concrete I actually still use lead anchors(if you can find them) then stainless steel screws
Why set one pipe below the floor and the other flush with the floor?
BobsPlumbingVideos In the left example if you were to bring the fitting up flush with the finished surface you run the risk of the flange not sitting flush with the floor. If you look at that flange you have the straight portion that glues into the fitting followed by the upper portion that widens just below the flange which is approx 3/4" in height. This is why I'll keep the fitting about 3/4" below the sub-floor. don't forget in the left example it's a fitting you're gluing into and in the right example you're gluing directly into the pipe where the flange is completely flat on the bottom. Hpe that helps!
Does it matter if you use a long elbow or standard?
Here in the city, we're supposed to use long turn / short turn sweeps a.k.a long pattern elbows. but in a retro fit situation, I'll use short 90's because in most cases that's all that will fit.
Is there a flange that will fit inside 3" drain pipe?
bit.ly/3cNgDZI
Thank you
You're welcome
What glue do you use dude?
amzn.to/3fcNetn
Nice vid.. Good prop.
Thanks for the kind words!
This is great. Thanks!
Andrew Hopkins Thanks Andrew, I hope it helped you out! Regards, Bob.
Thanks. Very useful.
Jason Mccorkle You're welcome Jason and thanks for watching! Regards, Bob.
The closet flange that fits inside the drain pcv pipe, does it concern you the piping diameter is smaller? Thx
Not at all, if you turn a bowl upside down and look at the exit hole, it's only about 2 3/8" in diameter. You'll be fine, regards. Bob
Thank you for the replay back! I feel better now installing the 3" closet flange into my house drain pcv 4" diameter.
You're Welcome!
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Yahtzee! You are spot on... in fact the passageway inside the toilet is typically 2-1/8" if you read the specs on a toilet. I've seen people poo-poo (pun intended) using 3" for toilet connection and while I prefer 4" as optimal... 3" PVC shouldn't be an issue. I mean... they make 3" PVC flanges so it stands to reason, right?! Cheers on a great vid! Very helpful!!
I’ve got a broken pvc flange that is glued to the outside of the vertical pipe. Can I cut much of the old flange out, clean the inside of the existing pipe and glue a new flange to the inside of the existing pipe?
You should be able to, what size pipe? You would have to remove most of the existing flange first, make sure the pipe is flush or just a bit below the finished floor. Then just glue in a 3" or 4" internal flange.
@@BobsPlumbingVideos it’s a 3” pipe. I figured I’d be able to remove all the flange down to the pipe, leaving just the glued ring around it. Thanks!
Thanks.Very helpful
you're welcome Hafzee! Regards, Bob