Hey everyone! Thanks for watching and all the discussions in the comments, it’s been real fun reading them all. This is my first scripted video, so I was real nervous that I would mess it up but this may be more in my wheelhouse after all. I’ll definitely be trying my hand at more discussion/review videos for shows and games.
A little detail you didn't mention in the video , when Lois asks Clark if he really thought she would reveal his secret identity when she knew it was him Clark says something along the lines of 'you just jumped off a building I don't know what to think' which highlights just how absurd and how far she is willing to take things so of course he would have his doubts.
BTW I think there is a strong case to show that Amber was a bad person from the start even without that 'twist' recontextualizing everything to be worse. She had never been shown to actually like, or be endeared by Mark she only asked him out when she saw him leave with the IT girl Eve not when he stood up for her against Tod she didn't even thank him if I recall. And when he came back from getting hit by a 'bus' she didn't show concern but instead started to talk about how she dumped him even tho he didn't come because he got hit by a 'bus' and almost fucking died. Who does that? Who won't give a guy a pass for missing your stupid soup kitchen cause he almost fucking died? Not a good person thats who and now with her knowing that he almost died on hero duty that its soo much worse. Seriously she did not get ruined because of that one scene she was horrible from the start.
Good vid. Just finished rewatching invincible. The tug of war between watching your significant other be a hero and lacking the quality time to make a relationship work could be a very interesting very real conundrum. Unfortunately the writers fumbled the bag. Hopefully the writers can clear up why their relationship doesn’t work in the next season.
The difference between them is this. When Lois is written to be impulsive, sometimes hypercritical and having trust issues it's written as a flaw. She says sorry to clark about lying and she tends to apologize later. With Amber the writing forces invisible to apologize and the story acts like he is the issue .
But that’s the thing, Mark does not apologize and is the issue. Mark knew the issue with the relationship steamed from his superhero identity. He constantly lied to her and did it poorly. He valued his secret identity of the lives of others until his friend was in trouble. He made a promosise he could not keep and broke it. He had 3 opportunities to fix the relationship and choose the worst option each time.
@@mangamandrew He never valued his secret identity over people's lives, the literal reason his relationship was screwed is because he kept choosing to be a Hero instead of choosing to spend time with his girlfriend. It's f*cking delusional to say Mark is in the wrong for risking his life to save other people and wanting to preserve his secret identity to protect his normal life and friends, he's a teenager who just got his powers and wanted the perks of both being a hero and a normal teen. On the other hand, the show starts with Amber blackmailing someone into giving Mark her number, and gaslighting him into telling her by saying he "left her alone" when she knew he was the one who got his ass kicked to save her, and then tried to get into another guy's pants a few minutes after wordlessly breaking up with Mark. Jesus f*cking Christ
This characters can and should be flawed is how world reacts to those flaws that matters. If characters flaws are never challenged never changed then it's bad writing
@@motivated2473 being a hero is not an excuse for being a bad partner. And he did value his secret identity over human life because instead of fighting the robot immediately threatening their lives, he hesitated because he did not want to reveal his secret identity. The relationship was screwed because Mark could not balance his responsibilities and that was a all on him. And she blackmailed someone who was harassing her and Mark to leave them alone. Someone like that does not take no for an answer so she had to do it hat needed to be done to protect herself and Mark. She did not gaslight Mark. Amber knew he was as a superhero, not invincible. The people of their world can’t recognize heroes immediately even if they aren’t wearing a mask. And she did not wordless breakup with Mark, while she did not say “we a done” or anything to that extent. That argument was them breaking up. Also, she was not trying to have sex with that guy. She was going for a rebound which I s not inherently bad. And even then, she stops the pursuit when she realizes he has a GF.
Invincible is objectively the problem in the comic. If you can't see that, then you're probably not going to be successful in real world relationships.
I've said this elsewhere: Lois isn't upset at Clark, she is upset at her father. The biggest reason she liked him was his ethics. She thought she found a guy who was exactly the opposite of her father. Now it turns out he has a double life too and it is bringing out all her old resentments. Why do you think she became a "Crusading Journalist"? It's not so strange really. My grandmother said that the reason she fell for my grandfather in the first place was "he was the kindest man I had ever met." Considering that her father's way of greeting her was to loudly complain about how fat she had gotten, I cannot say I am surprised.
It doens't matter Clarks doesn't know his dad and she should be AWARE of this, one has a double life being the embodyment of hope, the other one is brings dead to people as any other general does oh wait I meant "protect america".
@@AzureWilerI think years of Lois having to move from state and the fact that Sam never told her what her own mothers illness she was dying seems to have lead her to become very pissed when she feels that she is being lied too which is why I bet she became a journalist. She still seems to love Clark but his lack of honesty when he was always trying to get her to be more honest in her actions is kinda dickish as a relationship needs to built on trust
@@kwayneboy1524 yeah it wasn't explicit but i thought a huge part of her rage was that clark looked like a massive hypocrite since he lectured others about not keeping secrets while not living up to that standard himself
@@gaara4667, I mean she said herself that she wasn't sure he was honest about his feelings towards her, she clearly thought it was a front for Superman.
@@KingKeanuTheFirst that changes nothing. She never respected his privacy and forced personal information out of him. Jimmy is Clarks best friend but he didn’t use that to beat Clark into revealing personal information about himself. 🤷🏿♂️
@@gaara4667exactly, if lois found out, she should have given him time or chances over a period of time to explain his situation. That would build trust too. But nah she was feeling too jumpy for that lmao
The change of Amber’s personality is just absolutely questionable. In the comics, she was just worried that Mark was a drug dealer and when he revealed the truth she actually was relieved. But as Mark’s responsibilities got heavier and heavier, she started to grow distant and at one point nearly had a nervous breakdown because she could not live with it all. They broke up ON GOOD TERMS, and whenever she needed his help, Mark was willing to be there for her. The show has her just be a total POS and I can’t believe Mark is okay with getting back together. What’s worse is she equated HIS lying with HIS DAD’S lying, which are on two whole other degrees.
A lot of people say comic book Amber is boring but to me the way the two handled the situation was done a lot better in the comics both sides talked and listened to each other and came to a understanding that it wasn’t gonna work and yes they broke up but it was mutual. And it showed a lot of growth in both mark and amber to come to that understanding and still be on good terms. But tv amber is completely different she doesn’t even try to understand mark at all and I gotta be honest mark was a lot calmer than I would’ve been after she told me she knew. If I got beaten by my dad and found out what my dad was planning and she had the nerve to show up to my door and compare me lying to finding out my entire race are basically saiyans that door would flew off cause of how hard I’d slam it in her face.
Just wait until they do that story arc with Mark and his unfortunate interaction with a female Viltrumite. They'll probably either pretend it didn't happen or it'll somehow be his fault.
@@theguylivinginyourwalls the only way mark gets a win in the show is IF he meets Anissa (I think that's her name) and Anissa meets amber at which point she'd cripple or kill amber and apologize to mark🤣
The new episode points EVERYTHING out and makes it clear. Lois just wasn't angry that Clark lied to her. She thought Clark had been lying about the budding relationship as well.
@@georgesmith6218 Well to be fair at least Clark called her out on it right after so the writers are acknowledging that: Yes this was crazy of her to do even if she is right.
That part was peak stupid. Like, there's no reason for her to think that if Clark was lying about Superman he'd be lying about having feelings for Lois. That was crappy writer back pedaling, trying to launder Lois from being kind of a shitty person into less of a shitty person. It's doubly-stupid when you remember that Lois is supposed to be, at least, a base-level reporter with a more cynical and logical eye.
Another thing to point out was that in the first episode of Superman, Clark called out Lois for lying, so she is understandably mad at him for lying to her.
No, she's not, because she has had no reason to lie to him and does it in every episode with zero consequences. Yes he called her out and then immediately convinced himself that he was wrong. He lied to her about something he doesn't even fully understand yet, something that she was trying to expose and has proved that she is not a trustworthy person.
She lied to him about his job and something that could potentially ruin his life. He is choosing to not tell her about his personal life yet. Not really comparable.
@@thesourpatchkidd579This did not happen. For one, Clark does not convince himself that she was correct. If anything with the small amount we hear from him talking to himself, he's certain he's correct but is just struggling with that because he does like Lois. And second of all, that episode ends with Lois apologizing to Clark and saying he was right and that she would be more honest with him. Even saying something along the lines of "no secrets between friends" setting up the ending from episode 5 even more.
Lois in this case actually exhibited behavior seen in her past incarnations. Rash judgement, hot tempered, jumping into dangerous situations just to get to the bottom of a story, all character traits we've seen of her in past versions. The fact that the writers of the show made the audience fall in love with her before we saw all this just shows how well written her character is. People are just mad cause until this point, they just viewed her as a reincarnation of Luz Noceda.
There are a few other reason people might get mad. It's not '"just" the Luz thing. Some people are going to be upset because they came to this show for cutesy moments, and they are instead suddenly getting drama. And since the show has really not given them much else besides cutesy moments prior to this, that group being caught off guard isn't that crazy. Also, some people are always going to get annoyed when a character in a show is being dumb. That's just unavoidable. And the writers, by not resolving this before the end of the episode, will have further enflamed that annoyance in those people. I'm sure there's a bunch more, but those are the ones that apply to me.
@@jef_3006 I genuinely don't know how to tell you this, friend, but this is a coming-of-age Superman show. There was ALWAYS going to be some bit of drama between the characters. Hell, Lois jumping off a roof is actually fairly minor compared to the stuff she did in the old Fleischer cartoons. As for her acting stupid - characters are allowed to make irrational decisions if it's based off of their own pre-established internal logic. In Lois' case, she new for certain that Clark was certain due to a variety of factors: - Him throwing that dumbell in a box like it was nothing - He came from Smalltown,Kansas, and there were rumors of a Smalltown flying boy in the tabloids going back over a decade - The sudden scrapes he had on his neck - He has the EXACT SAME FACE, BUILD AND VOICE as superman Honestly, this Clark Kent did a poor job hiding his secret identity, so it only made sense that Lois would figure it out. She was pissed off that he was lying to her face, just as her father did when her mom was dying, and so she jumped off that roof as a way to call his bluff.
@@seagullman87 There's a difference between having drama between the characters, and having "drama" between the characters. You can have characters have disagreement where they can't find a solution, without one of them declaring an end to the relationship, storming off, and leaving the audience on an emotional cliff hanger. The latter isn't necessarily bad writing, but I personally do not enjoy it. I wish people would stop saying, "Lois did crazier things in the comics" as though it was a defense of this. I'm sure there were some Superman comics where Lois was racists. That doesn't mean modern Lois should be racist. When you do an adaptation, you change things. And of course characters are allowed to act stupid. Equally, I am allowed to be annoyed by characters acting stupid. It should really be taken as a compliment; if I didn't buy Lois as a character, I wouldn't be so annoyed by her being dumb. It's not like I don't like the show anymore after this episode or anything. The scene just annoys me.
Amber is toxic, and the Invincible writers seem to think her views and actions are justified. In contrast Lois is a sympathetic character who exhibits human flaws. I don't think the Superman writers expect the audience to cosign on her behavior. I just wish they'd fix some of the tumblrish dialog.
In the first episode Lois realizes SHE was in the wrong and apologized to Clark As for Amber, she gave Mark the silent treatment and tried to flirt with another dude on the same night
@@GlorytoAllah749 Her stubbornness and drive have always been shown to be equal parts greatest strength and greatest weakness. It's integral to her character.
I think that the point and version of Amber is to eventually cut ties with Mark, especially knowing that Eve is placed with more emphasis in invincible
We were given an entire episode worth of Lois suspecting and getting more information regarding this secret before pulling the old Superman 2 fall to seal the deal. With Amber, we're given an out of absolutely nowhere "I already know", leading us no choice but to view her previous actions as playing mind games in the middle of a life or death battle.
Yeah her knowing the entire time recontextualizes all of her actions with Mark and in a very, very bad way. It goes from her being unfair to Mark because of being mistaken, to her being unfair to Mark because she's just a twisted nasty piece of shit.
The Niagara Falls scene is what I was referring to. I believe she jumped out the window in a deleted scene from Superman 2, or maybe it's in the Donner cut. There's another deletion where she shoots Clark with a blank in the gun. (Instead of him falling into the fire.)@@sonnywoods6846
They also set it up that she knew and we knew Lois knew unlike amber who we never knew knew and who acted like a unreasonable bitch when she knew. Lois is reaction is a lot more believable and better written.
Another problem with Amber is that the writers of that show treat her as perfect, infallible, and correct. There was no scenario where Mark wins, his relationship with her was a lose/lose scenario. Yes, he lied about his secret identity, but since Amber had already figured it out, she should have realized why he was hiding it. You know, like every other hero in that universe does. As is the super hero trope. She also would have realized he didn't just run away and leave her alone, since she already knew Mark was Invincible, she literally watched Mark save her. Yet immediately after she treats him like he ran away like a coward and left her unprotected with a monster. The story treats her like she's right and holy and Mark is wrong. She actually treated him worse AFTER he realized he needed to tell her and revealed himself to her. That's why people hate Amber and Lois is nowhere near as bad. Lois isn't presented as perfect and flawless by the writers and her reactions are reasonable (well, reasonable in a world Superman exists anyway). Lois has character growth and probably will have more in the future. Amber is a bad character.
And what makes it worse is that Amber was a better character in the Invincible comics. For one she was white (sorry but it has to be said, I hate unnecessary race-swaps of established characters, just getting it out of the way) and 2, she was WAY more wholesome. A bit bland, but more wholesome. When Mark was gone for long periods and was seemingly stressed out after every battle, Amber was both concerned for him, but also was thinking he was a drug dealer, to which Mark revealed his identity to clear the air, and Amber, while surprised was relieved. She didn't know the entire time, but she also knew that being a superhero with a secret identity is a dangerous job, but a well-intended one, and could appreciate that Mark was just trying to help everyone despite the secret and lying. Of course, as Mark fights harder and harder threats, Amber stresses out, has a mental breakdown, and begrudgingly tells Mark she can't take it anymore, to which Mark understood this, and they both ended the relationship on mutual terms. They stay good friends however, and while eventually Amber falls off in the story, one of the major defining traits of her and Mark's story together is that despite Mark and Amber being Exs, Mark is always ready to help her regardless. This is especially true when later Amber gets into a new relationship that suddenly becomes dangerous when her new boyfriend is revealed to be a physically abusive monster, to when Mark founds out and hears him beating and berating her, he storms in and beats his ass to a bloody pulp. To which we root for given how sweet Amber is and how nice Mark and Amber's relationship is, even when it doesn't "work out". Amazon's Amber I wouldn't blame Mark for not coming to her rescue if she got into an abusive relationship later down the line in the show if they actually go that direction. I'd rather go with the ballsy twist of Mark seeing Amber as the toxic bitch she's now been rewritten as and dump her as growth to his character and show men that it's never wrong to walk away from toxic, manipulative, narcissistic and abusive women. But at this rate I'm not sure that's gonna happen.
Now I wouldn’t want Mark to let anyone get abused by their partner. I would like him or Eve to call Amber the fuck out. I would love for Eve to be the one to call it out both to Mark and Amber. Telling Amber that she’s a bitch who doesn’t deserve Mark and then telling Mark to leave Amber.
@@kinghyperheart1571 SPOILERS You're in luck, Mark will eventually be with Atom Eve as shown in the comics. I believe he will dump Amber in the show due to the toxic relationship, unlike how he did it in the comics, and he will be with Atom Eve.
The main difference is that Lois is well written and Amber isn't. Regardless of whether you agree with her, her reaction is in line wiht her established character. Lois is hot headed and emotional and behaves appropriately when she thinks she's been betrayed or lied to. Amber, on the other hand, was established to get upset when Mark stood her up or disappeared. If she *had* known, she should have understood that him saving lives was more important than their date. Her finding out weeks ago, as she claimed, with no build up or foreshadowing, seems more like the writers wanting a clever twist to their dynamic without going back and checking if it fit. People call her toxic and narcissistic, but the truth is the writers screwed up.
I'm honestly inclined to believe Amber's lying about having known, and while I understand saying anything to get rid of him, I don't understand how the writers thought either interpretation would be a good twist, or that leaving it up to that level of interpretation was okay.
The writers didn't screw up. What they got is an audience unable to understand why lying to someone until they're sick of you is a bad. And people expect characters to be automatically forgiven for their actions.
@@DDarkestKnight If you think disclosing something as important as a superhero secret identity to someone you have been dating for less than a year is a good idea, you legit have a smooth brain. Also, you Amber defenders being so obsessed with the "keeping secret's bad no matter what" is just hypocritical, there is no way in the world YOU don't have any secrets yourselves. It's clear you are just doing damage control for a character that represents your values.
@@DDarkestKnight Oh no, the writers screwed up. By having Amber know Mark's a superhero, before Mark tells her, she's loses all sympathy. As long as Amber was ignorant of his hero status, its makes her reactions to his flaky behavior justifiable. She's hurt by his perceived lack of regard for her and her feelings. But, by having her know why he's doing this, she comes off as manipulative. She's emotionally manipulating him to feel worse about the situation. And because she waits to say that she's known for sometime, she's been leading him on. Now, you could say that Mark's doing the same, but he's in a no-win situation. He either tries to defuse Amber's anger by coming clean but imperils his friends and family. Or he stays silent and protects that but watches his relationship with deteriorate. And coming clean with a secret of life-altering magnitude to win the trust of person who you've known for months, is not much of choice. Plus, her reaction to him being forced to breaking the soup kitchen promise makes her look worse off, regardless. She never acknowledges that Mark had good reason for that: he was hospitalized. He was hurt. Doesn't know he's a hero; it's bad look because there's not much he can do about being injured. She's being utterly unreasonable at point. But KNOWING he's a hero and he's been hospitalized because he got his shit kicked in? It makes her look like a total bitch that doesn't seem care that he got hurt. The writers' screw-up is that Mark stays sympathetic while Amber doesn't. Mark IS lying but he's has every reason too on top of being inexperienced being in a relationship and juggling larger-than-life expectations. He's not malicious and is trying his best, even as he makes mistakes due to his poor handling of the situation. Amber knows this but doesn't care, coming off as being toxic despite the writer's attempts to paint her in the right.
@@TresBS1 Her reaction to Mark *is still* justified because she's reacting to his bad actions, which have been garbage for most of their relationship. The reason Amber was fed up with Mark is because she has *no idea* why he's doing this! Being a superhero is not an answer all explanation, he has to do some actual explaining. Preferably _before_ the breakup! He should feel bad because he waited until it was too late to say anything! She wasn't manipulating him, she wasn't leading him, she was cutting off a half assed attempt to win her over like he did two days before! Did you want to have this discussion in front of William, who I will remind she didn't know already knew Mark's secret?! It's never been about protecting friends and family with Mark, those words have never come out his mouth! Mark wasn't in a no win situation, he had two options (explained to him by EVE): if he trusts her, tell her or if he doesn't, let her go. He went with option 3: drag her along until she was finally sick of him! It wasn't about winning her trust (because he failed at that for their entire relationship), it's about trusting her the same way she trusted him. Amber literally gave him a second chance when he got out of the hospital, what are you talking about? She didn't even know why he was there, everyone just kept telling her he got hit by a truck! The trip to the college was for a new start, to show Amber that he was serious about their relationship. And he fucked up. They are both sympathetic! They show Mark is inexperienced but he's also *not* trying. He does the same thing over and over and over again! Him not being malicious and their friends telling her not to give up on him is the only reason Amber held on to their relationship for so long. You think she's some all knowing being, she's a CIVILIAN! She doesn't know anything about what goes on with superheroes, whatever she does find out she had to detective her way through with no help from Mark! She gave him all the space, the understanding, the 2nd and 3rd chances because she trusted Mark. Like *this* is not difficult to understand but apparently the audience can barely understand shit now, they have to be spoon fed for the simplest thing!
The most level headed take on this. Yes, there is a war going on in metropolis, and super hero’s secret identities are used because they don’t want their loved ones to be targets of their nemesis's. At the same time, relationships are BUILT on trust. If there’s no trust, the whole building crumbles down. Lois has every right to be pissed, Clark has every right to be defensive. Calling her the next Amber though? THAT is a load of bullshit, Lois is infinitely deeper than Amber ever will be.
@@masontoy1976 I would also like to point out that Superman is the first Superhero in a lot of DC continuities, and it seems like that's what they're going with here. There's no book written on this, so unlike Invincible, where Superheroes are established and keeping secret identities would be the norm... this isn't the case here. Also the time they've known each other is irrelevant here as.. They were clearly heading to a serious relationship, fast, and were clicking on a deeper level. I'm not siding with one side, or the other as the writers are clearly establishing that BOTH have a point here, and they do. They're not raising one over the other. This is just a sucky situation that they will have to learn to work through, and to be honest? The fact that the writers have the balls to do this is really cool to me. Character conflict that's IN character and due to established character traits? Sign me up.
You don’t jump off a building to force someone into telling their secret, especially when you made it clear that your focus is to expose that person’s secret to the public.
Another difference between Amber and Lois, is in how they come across in those scenes. In my opinion, and one I have seen elsewhere, Amber comes across as being upset Mark is prioritizing saving people's lives over spending time with her. Lois is the one that gets written like she is hurt by the lack of trust Clark shows her by playing dumb and not sharing his secrets sooner. Like you said in the video, the build-up is better for Lois and the fact Lois and Clark have a back and forth is good development for both of them. Invincible is a show where the Hero gets disrespected by several characters for being an awkward nice guy the typical heroic virtues like trust and kindness. My Adventures With Superman so far seem to have a more believable reaction in that lies hurt, even if for a good/valid reason like Clark has.
There’s also the fact that, as mentioned in the video, Lois is visibly worried and upset that Clark was injured. She wasn’t just mad that he lied; she was mad that he lied while being visibly hurt and not trusting her enough to share his pain. As mentioned, episode 4 has Lois say she has trust issues cause her dad always lied to her, even about her mom’s sickness. Seeing Clark injured and lying about it, it probably brought Lois pain to that time with her dad. Everything Lois does is due to her own trauma and because she doesn’t want anything to happen to Clark, in the same way it happened to her mom.
@@mr.goblin6039yeah Clark looks like he's just had the shit kicked out of him (cause he has) and she tries to give him a chance to tell her himself before she gets mad. It's an understandable reaction she's already worried and upset. So her emotions are already running high when he lies to her again after clearly having been in some serious danger, which given what we know about her makes sense to set her off. I swear some people have negative media literacy if they think it portrays either of them in that scene as completely in the right
Lois isn't mad at Clark for not prioritizing her. She feels betrayed and hurt that despite everything that's happened, he still didn't see her as an equal or as someone who was supposedly worthy of knowing his secret.
I also feel the shows overall treatment of the issue is done a lot better in the adventures of superman. Clark lied yes but the show isn’t saying he’s wrong for feeling the way he felt both sides are valid in their feelings and the show let’s you know yes clark is wrong for not trusting them BUT he isn’t wrong for being afraid of what would happen when they find out he’s practically a alien. But in invincible the show is practically screaming marks in the wrong every one of marks friends tells him he was in the wrong the show itself is telling you mark’s wrong. Mark was told several times a secret identity is important not just for him but the people close to him as well cause once your enemies know who you are your loved ones become a HUGE target. So of course he wouldn’t be in a rush to tell someone he’s only been dating for a few months. It’s a lie yes but it’s a lie to keep the people he cares about safe. SPOILERS Also the big difference is later lois and clerk actually talk and reach a understanding of both sides. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it and makes it about her and doesn’t even try to understand marks side and only seems to care when he’s basically beaten to a bloody pulp.
Media literacy is dead because people can't understand that characters are meant to be flawed. Lois isn’t being treated as in the right, she’s just expressing her frustrations. Should she be mad at Clark? Not really, but you can understand why based on her characterization. And still this is an intentional character flaw, she hates being lied to, even if its for her own good.
It's definitely dead, it's like people can't figure out that Amber being toxic is meant to be perceived that way on purpose, and that character are flawed for the purpose of character building. This creates a paradox, already perfect female characters are too unrelatable but imperfect female characters are bad people and don't deserve redemption. The only acceptable female character seems to be the one who has their own life then drops everything to support the main character (I may be wrong though)
@@natasharules6737 now you lack media literacy, Eve and William side with Amber and she returns with "We both were lied to." Which implies that show AGREES WITH HER. It's not that deep, Invincible show is just dumb and fallen into trope that comic WAS EXPLICITLY MOCKING AND AVOID FOR ACTUAL UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP. Lois was written to be worried about people lying to her due to her dad and her being concerned for why Clark wouldn't say bout damages. AND CLARK ACTUALLY ARGUES BACK. Which shows that both have reasons and next episode is about their concerns, both of their concerns. While Invincble seems to just hate Mark for no reason.
@mikhaelgribkov4117 no dude, the show is not a person, the only person is the viewer. You are supposed to think the main character is experiencing injustice and shows how people within the show can be wrong. Think about Thanos, his reasons for decimating whole populations is interesting and makes the viewer think that overpopulation is in fact a problem, just because within the MCU Thanos has supporters doesn't mean Marvel studios wants us to agree with genocide. You as a watcher can simply make your own opinion
Amber’s anger is retroactively not understandable once you find out that she knew who he was for weeks. Her getting upset that he left at the college makes no sense because she knew at that point, and SAW Invincible save William. Then she goes off to cheat. It was understandable anger before we found out she already knew, but with that knowledge, it makes no sense. She knows why he’s late all the time, and it’s a VERY good reason. If the roles were reversed, we’d expect Mark to understand, be patient and wait for her to feel comfortable to share her secret, and support her. Not blow up and emotionally manipulate
I think it not the fact he’s lying to her but he’s obviously lying. He clearly doesn’t value her as much as he thinks he does which shows that he’s still a kid going through a very huge change in he’s life being a super hero.
The writing could have been better but I don’t see people really talking about how bad they were for each other at the time and not just someone being toxic
What bothered me was that I felt the show was trying gaslight me. Amber did not know at the college that he was Invincible, but then the show acts like she did and it makes no sense
People complain about MJ in the Raimi trilogy, but at least she wasn’t mad when she found out Peter is Spider-Man. She just fell even more in love with him. No drama about him lying to her and keeping secrets. But this video did make me feel better about Lois
That’s just 1 thing, Sure MJ never got mad but there are a whole bunch of things wrong with her, sure it could be considered a flaw but it’s not really resolved. Rami MJ is honestly awful, In the comics she was the same way but it was a flaw so it ended up changing later, that didn’t happen with the rami trilogy.
@@voidedabyss5614in the old comics back when peter and Mj are married she's supportive and also shot Green Goblin and beat the shit out of chameleon and well written unlike modern comic mj
Big difference summed up in one scene each. Lois knows Clark is Superman, and is instantly concerned if he is ok first and foremost when he comes back. Amber knows Mark is Invincible, yet shits on him for leaving despite witnessing the fight.
Does Amber really consder herself more important than the city or whatever was n thee line here? Even just one live saved or one harm prevented is more important than her.
@@donutbevil9669 Yeah, sounds like she only works there because of how people perceive her. You are not supposed to do charity for the praise, that's not charity.
Episode 6 has a resolution to their fight and it’s a helps it a lot as well. Lois kind of implied she might have felt Clark was just lying about his feelings or using her as a cover, most likely because of her poor relationship with her father who must have done similar since we know he lied a lot. And Clark admits how afraid he is about who he is and how people will react. Jimmys confession to that really helps the narrative as showing they both care about Clark, and it doesn’t matter what he is. With their fight, both Clark and Lois had messed up and had a reasoning behind it all, and we see them admit to those faults and grow
I really like how, in the latest episode, Jimmy Olsen just cuts Clark right off by telling him he's known about him being Superman since, like, their freshman year in college because he ripped the door handle off and then tried to play it off as the screws being loose. He let Clark keep his secret because it felt personal to him, and he felt like Clark would eventually tell him when the time was right - on Clark's terms. It's kind of bizarre how the most disliked character on the show shows the most mature attitude about the situation. That said, I don't think Lois was in the wrong at all, just in the wrong headspace. She clearly had a thing for lying due to her father, and every time Clark tried to open up about his being Superman, she would conflate how Superman hiding something is just the worst, causing Clark to back off very quickly as he clearly doesn't want to be on Lois' bad side as he really likes her at this point. Both Clark and Lois are wrong in the situation, causing undue amounts of stress for both - Lois, because she's such a determined investigator, and Clark who just doesn't want to have Lois dig too deeply and discover he's been hiding this big secret from her; the BIGGEST of secrets from her, and due to his feelings just can't cope with the situation multiple times whenever he tries to tell her. So you go Jimmy Olsen. You didn't let those stupid screws fool you for a second. EDIT: Oh shit, I just figured out who that Army General is at 7:35. I feel so freaking stupid. /facepalm I feel like Jimmy Olsen is smarter than me and that's just downright depressing.
@@mwperk02 it’s only causing harm to lois because lois hasn’t dealt with her personal issues about people keeping secrets from her. she needs to realize that she’s not obligated to know everyone’s secrets just because of what happened to her in the past. that’s a problem that SHE needs to fix, not clark, and clark is not in the wrong for keeping HIS secret a secret, especially if that secret is protecting the people he cares about.
Even without Lois’s issues with her dad, the two of them were flirting, and fast approaching a relationship, and there’s some things that could be taken quite badly (even though we know Clark is great). I just rewatched episode two, and Clark saying he knew Lois would find Superman again, and then buttering her up with compliments… That can EASILY be suspected in retrospect as him trying to take advantage of the situation to seduce Lois. Again, Clark is great. We know he was sincere. Lois could start doubting that. There’s a lot to unpack when you step back, set aside our perspective as the audience, and isolate Lois’s perspective of all past interactions with Clark. The jumping off the building bit IS absurd, but at that point, she was 100% convinced he was Superman. In her mind, the only danger was him letting her die, which I doubt she thought was even a possibility.
she was not 100% sure he was superman she was 99% sure he was superman I know it's a thing for Lois to jump off buildings like miles morales but goddamn bruh imagine if she was wrong
@@andrei283 At THAT point I'm saying 100% sure in her mind. Any doubt she had was gone after the events in the episode (as early as him tossing the weight one-handed and damaging the lockers). I say this because I don't think even Lois would've made that jump if she wasn't that confident. (The "bruh imagine if she was wrong" point is perfectly valid. I speak only of what I believe she believed in that moment.)
I swear people are just crying because it's an end of episode stinger. Next episode, they're gonna team up and re-bond over their friendship with Jimmy. People just aren't used to weekly releases anymore
I never understood why Mark got so much shit for his relationship with Amber, but almost none for almost letting William and his boyfriend die. William genuinly has good reason to be upset!
Because he constantly lied to her, made a promise he broke immediately, and made his partner feel stupid and unimportant in a relationship, and continued a relationship with some he could not trust with a secret actively killing the relationship.
@@vincentlucario5450 Amber did not lie. She did not make Mark feel stupid and unimportant. She never broke a prime and did not try to continue a failing relationship
The problem with Amber is that the pay-off does not match the set up. Amber gets mad about Mark not being there for her, which is reasonable. Then Eve talks to her about how Mark is actually a great guy and deserves a second shot. He gets the second shot, disappears again and this time pretty much leaving her for dead. Everything to that point is completely fine. But once Marks reveals his identity, and she has all the context, such as Mark being absent because he was saving the world, Eve's words being true, Mark has a lot of weight to carry, and he never left her for dead, he was straight up fighting the threat to save everyone; her reaction changes. The writers wanted Amber to look smart, witty, the gal who figured it all out days ago, so they put this "I knew it" line that flips the context. Thing is, when you flip the context it makes no sense for her to be mad that he was absent. Lois is consistent. She was mad that Clark was lying and kept being mad about that. It's not a problem that her reason for being mad is not rightful, Clark is in the right, he had to keep it a secret and he can't exactly trust every flirt with his secret identity. Same applies to Mark. If Amber was still mad and said "Ok, sure, that explains it but I never signed up to date a super hero" that would have been fine. Instead she comes out as bitch because she knew WHY he was doing all of that and was still giving him a hard time for things she claims she doesn't care about. There is also a secondary problem, but the way they wrote her lines and demeanor, she just comes off as a bitch every time. I don't know if the writers were trying to overcompensate the fact she was one of the few non-super characters in the show, but she can't say more than two words without coming off as having an ego bigger than the Earth itself. Even at the very end, when Eve, the girl who guided him through being a super hero and the last person to see him before he had to fight his own father, and Mark's life long best friend, come see Mark, not only she is magically already there (which, sure, Mark's ex who didn't care if he was getting killed or not because he was 5min late now is so worried she somehow got to him before everyone else), but she is completely surprised that they both knowing and let's out the bitchiest "They know?". Amber just has this aura that makes you wish she was ran over by a truck.
I absolutely despised the way Twitter tried to defend Amber with, "if you dont like her its because you're racist." Amber was toxic as hell, treated Mark like shit when she already knew, and then he does finally tell her ahe just blows him off. Really hope she doesn't return in Season 2
I honestly didn’t mind Amber being angry with Mark at first because she was honestly making valid points. However when it was revealed she KNEW he was a super hero the entire time I audibly called her a cunt lol. If they didn’t try to make her so smart and so perceptive and just let her be surprised by the fact he’s a super hero it would have been a predictable end but it would have made the most sense.
I think why it works better for Lois is also because it happened so early in the shows run meaning we don’t have to put up with the liar revealed plot line for very long and thous not falling into such a common and misused trope so we can see more of their relationship to evolve throughout the show more smoothly
Funny enough none of the other DC animated Superman show pulled a liar reveal trope. STAS it was when Lois was in the hospital and its was just her saying clark, and supes saying yes. In the modern DC it was right before he was killed by doomsday. No liar reveal drama
@@triggerfairy4070 Maybe, but this is a very different universe from those ones. Not to mention that due to Invincible people were getting worried from what I was seeing. Not to mention that Lois figured it out all her own, and since she found out much earlier than those to which to me just allows for a more natural relationship for them
@@hyperdreamer9483 normally id say S1 supes secret identity is revealed to lois is too early. However since this show is more of an ensemble and not just supes doing supes stuff I dont mind the early reveal.
@@triggerfairy4070 Yeah it’s more a team effort here Lois and Jimmy by his side to help him as a team, especially since this version of Superman not as indestructible as others
in a way, Clarke having a very legitimate reason to keep his secret from Lois, specifically, makes the fact that he actually *did* keep the secret more legitimately hurtful to her. For Amber, it's just the very standard "this is a big secret and I can't tell someone unless I can trust them to keep it for the rest of their life" type deal that secret identities always have. For Clarke, he's basically telling Lois to her face "I think you are the type of person who might immediately sacrifice our relationship and my well-being to selfishly further your own career." Given what he knows of her and what she's said to him, that's perfectly sensible reasoning. But finding out that someone who you consider to be a friend, maybe more than that, thinks so poorly of your character is the kind of shock that's very understandable for someone to get emotional over. With time and considering others' perspectives, someone can come to understand how their own actions caused people to perceive them so harshly. But in the moment it will feel more like a betrayal (on top of the betrayal of him lying to her face previously), and cutting off a relationship in that moment makes prefect sense for a character to do.
Simply put, Lois’s reaction is justified because she’s concerned about Clark and has valid reason to hate being deceived. Amber’s reaction is unwarranted because even though she knows why mark is lying to her she is only concerned about herself without justification and in turn LYING TO MARK.
And would’ve cheated on mark if the guy was single at that party I think they’re going to break up eventually and he’s going to date Atom eve or something
Im not sure you can justify JUMPING OUT OF A BUILDING for someone not wanting to tell you a secret, i could understand she can get angry but her behaviour there was very manipulative.
@@Bike-chan People aren't say Lois is 100% in the right. They're saying they can understand her side, and that's the beauty. It's one sided like it is in Invincible
@@bwareist but he just said her reaction was justified, jumping out of a building is just an excesive reaction to do in order to force someone to tell you a secret.
@@Bike-chan first off the video already explained that it was a reference that lois always jumps off buildings,second that is a flaw of her character, the word justified is just within you, the word common sense is subjective and can only be applied to a group of people, lois threw herself because she trusted clark, its clear she had no ill intentions, in fact she was concened about his safety after seeing his injuries and want t confirm her doubts, in no way does it make it the best choice she could make but i find it beautiful that she does trust him and has her argument to why she would jump off
The difference is that Lois is actually a likeable character for the audience because for us she's fun and chaotic and selfish and ambitious, like a better written Rachel Berry- there's just no real reason why Clark likes her. Her relationship with him thus far is exactly like the one she has with her boss- she lies to them, manipulates them and ignores what they want in favor of her own ego and agenda, never apologizes unless she gets caught or gets what she wants, they forgive her instantly and she does it all over again with zero consequences. In that way she's more of a main character than Clark- which makes sense, given the show is called My adventures with superman indicating that the main character is not Clark. We always know what Lois is doing and almost always view incidents from her perspective, and she typically gets the plot moving. She's the main character, so her flaws are way more forgivable because we know she'll grow out of it much like Clark will grow into being Superman and Mark will grow into being Invincible. Where as Amber is very clearly not meant to be with Mark- the show has clearly set it up to be him and Eve, which is consistent with the comics, which is strike one for people not liking Amber because she's already in the way so we're waiting for the moment when she's gone and true love can begin. She constantly holds it against him that he is a superhero, and up until the end it's because she doesn't know (we'll touch on that later tho) but we as the audience do so we're watching like "girl he's saving the world! Get over yourself!" which is strike two for her. And then, and then, there's the infamous break up scene where we find out that she's known "for a while" that he's a hero, which is the third strike and wipes out any chance at anyone liking her, because it MAKES. NO. SENSE!!! Not because it's unrealistic that she'd figure it out because it does make sense since he's not good at hiding it. But because none of her actions make sense if she knows Mark is Invincible. She doesn't say when, but I'm guessing she figured it out around the time he got put in the ICU by Beast. She definitely knew at the college visit. Where she broke up with him because he abandoned them despite the fact that she knows he saved their lives!! It's the work of an insane person!! Is she in cahoots with Omniman to turn Mark into a true Viltrumite by crushing his heart? But they weren't done. Nope she gets a strike four, because she goes to him when his dad tried to beat the Viltrumite out of him and kisses him and takes him back. What? Literally why. I can understand her coming because she cares and she still loves him, but why would she want him back? Literally nothing she had a problem with has changed. In fact, all of the problems she had before are about to become way worse. And why does he want her back? He just sort of accepts it, so maybe it was the pain meds.
Currently, I read Amber as a true narcissist. Some people are genuinely just like that. All of her actions point towards her being narcissistic and being concerned with everyone seeing her as a badass and as a caring soul. Which is why I think she goes to the soup kitchen and why she insists that Mark be there, too. In a way, her forcing Mark to go to the soup kitchen signals that she wants to be seen dating someone who seems to care about helping people; the way he handles his duties as a superhero makes him look like a coward to anyone not aware of his dual identity. Her criticizing him lying to her about identity makes her feel both untrusted and damages her views of herself. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but do we ever see her enjoying her time in the kitchen? I think I only remember her wondering where Mark is, rather than being more concerned with the people she's supposed to be helping (typically, that's how volunteers usually behave; their own life and self image is low on their priority list, especially on duty, and they usually have relationships with those they're helping). If the writers stay consistent with her hypocrisy and narcissism, I can imagine a very satisfying arc for Mark where he has to realize he was being abused to an extent and to move past his misplaced feelings for Amber. If the writers keep pushing this romance and have Amber "forgive" Mark (though he never did anything to forgive, especially according to her own self admitted knowledge), then it'll leave a very sour taste in my mouth.
@@charles3840if Amber were a real character in the show you’d be right- but as a seasoned writer I know a “1 dimensional bad bf/gf obstacle to real love story” character when I see one and that’s what she is. She’s a step above Eve’s irrelevant ex and only because she sticks around longer. You can tell because as long as she’s here we never really know anything about her- just like Mark’s best friend. Anything we find out is brought up and never mentioned again, she experiences no character growth and has no true relevance to the plot outside of her relationship with Mark, which as we’ve seen it is only her being mad at him or being stood up. Take it back to when we first meet Amber in a scene that seems to be establishing her as a character. Except none of it matters or comes up again- we never hear about the bully, the kid she protected, why, what the outcome of the entire thing is- because it was actually a scene to show why Mark likes her. In fact the next time we hear from the bully it’s in a standoff with Mark, cause even he knows Amber is too one dimensional to get him any screen time. All of of her scenes are like that- they only serve the purpose of furthering Mark’s storyline. We find out that she volunteers at a soup kitchen just to show how close Mark was when he was getting beat to a pulp but none of it matters cause it’s never brought up again, so the only point was to show Mark failing. Meeting her mom was so important that it never comes up again and they never meet and we don’t even see the woman. I always find it lazy writing when writers use characters like this, because you can have a normal relationship that just doesn’t work out. It doesn’t have to be that the person is a massive douche bag or one a dimensional snooze fest.
@@thesourpatchkidd579also let's not forger important part: COMIC ACTUALLY SUBVERTED THAT TROPE. The comic avoided that bs and had really good arc of why their relationship can't work out while having Debbie as mirror to what it does to the mind. And it was unique and compelling that way, with no villains. But I guess show is too CW drama brained to get that nuance.
Folks, this deep in "My Adventures with Superman" IMHO it's clear that Lois cares deeply for Clark. So in analyzing her relationship with him, maybe we should bear in mind that prior to their quarrel Clark had been in a big fight with Slade and what looks to be mechs from Project Cadmus, which looks to be helmed by DC's favorite(?) ruthless covert ops boss Amanda Waller and Lois' own father Gen. Sam Lane. And in that fight, Slade NEARLY TOOK CLARK'S HEAD OFF with his swords. At this point, Clark is still climbing a steep learning curve with regard to his powers, and yet is already having to face people who can outright KILL him despite said powers. Is it any wonder Lois is distraught over Clark's not opening up to her, when every time he goes into action as Superman could be his last?
@bananarama1425 And that's the difference. It's shown here, that first and foremost, her concern is Clark's well-being. And if you think about it, the Robot Fight in episode..2? Now that she KNOWS that was him, she'd also be dealing with the fact that he could have DIED there if it weren't for her intervention.
Lois: "So the guy I like was AWOL because he was saving literally thousands of lives. Understandable." Amber: "How dare he miss date night to save thousands of lives and not trust me enough to say anything while getting his ass kicked physically and mentally! I'll give him mixed signals and a cold shoulder, that seems fair."
I hate how everyone compares Lois to Amber Amber is just an awful person who the writers clearly try to make out like a justified and perfect human being. Even though she is just the worst girlfriend to Mark, the worst friend to anybody and….The Worst! Lois on the other hand has some traits similar, the writers don’t try to justify them as right. Because they know Lois is in the wrong and we know she’s in the wrong but compared to Amber we are given time to like Lois and understand her. The writers of Invincible just expect us to like Amber….Because Amber!
I think the writers were making her out to be good cuz in the original comic she was actually better, and they ruined her in the animation but kept the fact she was “in the right”.
@@High-Pie_Chop Yeah, because Amber is just the worst Like if I had met her personally, then she’d be fifth place. I have a lot of people I despise worse than her
@confusingzark Again, but they know this. The writers of Invincible try to make Amber out like she was in the right 24/7 whereas Lois is clearly in the wrong in a lot of her scenes and the writers know this I mean, she is a flawed character that is written as flawed whereas Amber is just an awful human being written as flawless
Well normally I don't want race to have to be important, but there's a trend going on that has to be addressed. What I'm saying is: 1. Don't change the race of a pre-established character, it isn't necessary at all, race shouldn't be important in a character. The writing needs to be good first, then should just happen to be that color from the conception. They changed Amber's race unnecessarily, when the writing was fine, and she just happened to be white. If the writing is fine, and being white is okay, then why change it? and 2, if you're going to change BOTH the writing AND the race of a character, DON'T make the character horrible AND re-enforces negative stereotypes about black people. At the very least have them be bad as a character be they white or black from the start. Don't take a character who is good and just so happens to be white and change them into a terrible person who just so happens to be black. In short, my point is if you're going to make a character who is insufferable and just so happens to be black, don't take a pre-established well written character with a different race and transform that character into something they're not. make your own horrible character that doesn't drag down the already established character and tarnish their legacy. The race change is just unnecessary design-wise and is salt in the wounds.
Not all secrets are the same and the secret identity of a superhero is big one. Its not something you can just tell to anyone given the risk; especially if the superhero in question has a family he or she needs to protect. You never know who is who. For years everyone thought that omni-man was a hero but look at how things ended. A huge amount of trust needs to be earned even among friends and even family.
Lois is angry because she was lied to, repeatedly, by Clark despite both of them knowing he's lying. She's got issues with being lied to because of her father. Amber is supposed to be written in the same way, but the fact that she knew he was Invincible, and STILL acted the way she did makes her sound like she's complaining because he wasn't her priority.
The key difference here is that while Invincible portrays Amber as absolutely in the right and basically takes her side (having all the characters chastise Mark for being stupid without even one moment of reflection for how Amber could be in the wrong), My Adventures with Superman portrays Lois’s obsessiveness, anger, and distrust as character flaws. She hangs up the phone when her dad tried to call her, indicating she has some deep and complex familial issues, her actions repeatedly land her in trouble, and most important of all, the pitfalls of her character are pointed out and she has to apologize at times. Of course, it’s quite possible that the writers will drop the ball and end up making Lois insufferable, but thus far, it seems like Lois is going on an arc in which she needs to overcome her obsessive need to uncover all secrets and inability to trust.
As I was watching this I realized something too. When Mark said he went to get help for an alibi Amber immediately got angry saying that he abandoned her. When Clark did the same thing, Lois was relieved that he was ok and happy that he had done so. Also Amber KNEW that Mark was the hero who stepped in. Lois didn't know Clark was Superman and was just relieved that everyone was ok.
And even if she didn't somehow already know he was a superhero, just a teenage guy, what did she expect a normal, young person to do against superhuman zombie cyborgs that can easily tear through steel and concrete.
I feel like people were too busy salivating in the mouth to listen to anything said during the stairwell scene, that scene put everything into context but everyone ive seen talk bad about Lois doesnt even recall her mentioning her dad like wtf Also lois' reply that clark shouldve known shed never expose him is valid. She thought superman was some random guy keeping secrets and as a reporter its her job to learn to truth. But he shouldve know she'd not go behind his back if she knew it was him. It shows he doesnt trust her enough and thinks of her in a more negative way than she is
I also think it demonstrates Clark’s general fear about his powers. He didn’t exactly embrace them in this show, so he’s more on edge about anything concerning Superman in general.
Clark just met this girl, the attraction they share is just surface level. Why would he think that he could trust this woman when his first impression of Lois is that she is lying/manipulative coworkers that’s will to do anything in order to get what she wants, even if it’s immoral. Trusting Lois is stupid, and her emotional baggage is not enough of a reason to tell her anything. This crazy woman was getting mad a Clark’s Superman persona for not telling her his secrets, when her motivation was to trick him into spilling his guts and tell the world his secrets even though she new it would hurt him. For Clark to even consider telling Lois anything, when at best they have only been “friends” for a few days, tells me he’s too horny to think properly. It’s like watch man befriend a thief and think that because their friends the thief would never steal from him.
@@Salazar.945 dude, they're dating and shared intimate moments, they're far beyond friends with surface level attraction. And it's her JOB to uncover secrets. That's like saying the x files people shouldn't investigate aliens cause it can expose and endanger them. Obviously if she learned it was Clark, and had a talk, she'd learn he was being honest and didn't have any secrets to expose, she wouldn't say his name or his family. If he was just some random guy and she found out he was an alien sent to defend earth from the mole people, that's a secret to expose, not a personal one that'd harm him
@@Salazar.945 she’s his coworker and they’ve been in dangerous situations before and had each other’s back. Not only that, they’ve been with each other for like a month at least, not a few days. Maybe a month is too short for you, but it’s their relationship and not yours lol. Being in dangerous situations also bring ppl closer to one another
@@ma.2089 sorry, but in the real world your coworkers aren’t your friends. This is why everyone and their mom tells people that when your entering in the work force it a general rule to not trust anybody with personal information. Clark’s secret identity is not a superficial thing. knowledge about what he can do can have a huge affects on his life. It’s equivalent to his a credit information, social security number, his exact home address of his parents and his own. Telling a coworker after a month hanging out with them, is not, nor will it ever be justification for telling them important information like this. Especially when the world finding out that he’s Superman can negatively effect his parents, and Clark specifically came to Metropolis so his choice to use his powers to help people wouldn’t effect them. No amount of dangerous situations together can fix this, especially when Clark never wanted to be involved with said danger in the beginning, and later expresses his displeasure of Lois seeking out said danger. Anyone who tell their coworkers stuff like this, does so at their own peril. And that’s fine, people can take whatever risks they want. But don’t argue that those unnecessary risks are smart. Clark should have just used his super speed to change, save Lois, change back, deny all accusation, be made at Lois for risking her life just to make a point, then leave. But hey, that not the story the writers wanted to tell.
I like that Lois, in Episode 6, realising Jimmy knew was upset why he didn't tell her, and Jimmy confronts her saying how it's not his secret to tell. Jimmy is a Real One
@@danielasarmiento3101 Yeah and that is understandable but I'm talking about the order of the scene. Jimmy says it'd a sensitive subject then she asks why.
@@compareandcontrast9833 He got mad that he told her before him, but also got mad that Lois said "you knew?! Why didn't you told me?" retaliating with how it's not his Secret to tell. This action is showing how he respects someone's (Clark in this case) boundaries while also backing up on how important it is to Clark. A Privacy Lois was trying to invade earlier in the episode, which indirectly showed Lois how wrong she was for her behaviour (which is why they all got along towards the end).
@@baligong3592 The only thing he said after she asked after she asked was"You told her before me your best friend" and then it cut to Clark. He did not say anything to Lois about how to act when you learn your friend can punt a robot to the moon.
Great video bro! My jaw dropped during the rooftop scene. Like Lois literally tells Clark not to like to her anymore and then he literally lies TWICE in quick succession. Obviously she shouldn’t have jumped off the roof but clearly putting herself in danger was the only way that Clark would have told her what was really going on. Which is why I do disagree a little bit with your statement towards the end of the video that everything needs to make logical sense in a story. Characters are reflections of us as humans, and sometimes we do stupid things in the moment without thinking. I think the biggest issue with amber is NONE of her actions make sense even when looked at through the lens of something emotional done in the moment. I think it is very odd that people are watching the rooftop scene and taking one side over the other. Like both Clark and Lois have completely valid reasons to be feeling the emotions that they are feeling. Clark and Lois feel like two people having a conversation, the stuff in invincible is contrived and is drama for the sake of drama. It makes you wonder what these twitter peoples REAL LIFE relationships are like 💀 Great video, you deserve more views!
Honestly to me the reason it works with Lois and no Amber can be summarized simply: With Lois, we actually *see* her figure it out, and like you explained, the progression of her feelings and reaction is logical. Unlike Amber who figures it all out *offscreen* and her reactions make less sense because it doesn't match
But her reaction isn’t logical, her feelings are, sure. But the reaction of “I’m gonna force him to tell me by jumping off this building” is batshit insane when she could have just left it alone… or literally done anything else
@@lwandilengubane9638but she did everything else and when confronted about scars and how it happened Clark still tried to downplay it, which is honestly make Lois outburst pretty justified in my book.
@@vincentlucario5450 depends on the context. If someone didn't like me and was putting up with me then sure. If someone was actually Superman irl and didn't tell me for my own safety I would be more amazed than anything honestly.
I think an interesting corollary to the buildup of the Lois/Clark confrontation is that it really feels like the Amber/Mark buildup got left on the cutting room floor. People are like "oh Amber's toxic" and whatnot, but it's more like her arc doesn't add up.
Those episodes of Invincible gave me whiplash feeling like I had somehow missed an episode or two despite binging the whole thing at once. Everything with Amber would have worked better had they saved that story thread to cook for season 2, and actually spent more time building up to Amber having a reaction of that magnitude. As it stands it's an undercooked mess that leaves a character the writers clearly want us to sympathize with coming across as an absolute asshole.
Coming back to this after the latest episode with the two's reconciliation, I think something important to consider is how Lois starts to soften up to Clark after he actually gets a chance to explain _his_ side of the story, assuaging her worries that _everything_ between them was a lie, and hearing his main reasons for keeping his dual identity a secret from them out of a desire to not be seen as different. She and Jimmy are pretty clearly understanding of that and reassure him that him being who he is doesn't change anything. They meet the problem on _his_ level and don't cast him down for feeling that way. I've seen a couple accusations that the episodes are trying to pitch Clark as being in the wrong, but frankly I really don't see it. And even if Lois doesn't say word for word out loud "I'm sorry for going so hard on you", I think how her behavior shifts and how she starts treating Clark after starting to hear him out speaks a good deal to her willing to let go of whatever negative feelings she had towards him for it all. And really, if people wanna see the Lois building jump get formally addressed even beyond her reconciliation with Clark, what the show could do is lump it in with a general addressing of her habit of doing reckless stuff in pursuit of her goals. Lois's determination to get the truth at any cost, even potentially her life, is simultaneously one of her biggest strengths and one of her biggest self-hinderences, so I think there's still plenty of room for her to get development and growth on that general character aspect.
The funny thing is that Amber isn't written by "some writers", but by the creator of the original comics. He's majorly involved in adapting the show, including changing things he thought could be done better. New Amber is not a hack's idea to modernize the character, but the original creator's way to fix the original... I've read the second half of the comics, so I didn't get to know original Amber. From afar she seems kinda basic and flat. It's good she's supporting him, especially after what happened with Omniman, but she was the girlfriend Mark stood up to until he revealed her his secret. As for the actual matter, a lot of people tend to blow out at her, but her side is understandable. Like Lois, she's not mad that Mark is actually a superhero. If that were the case, then knowing it beforehand would solve the issue. It's the fact he lied to her for so long, which implies both mistrust on Mark's behalf, and that Mark thought he could lie to her for so long ("I'm not stupid"). That one is more prideful, but it stands firm. Here's the difference between the two cases: MAW Superman works under the classic assumption of secret identities - don't tell anyone. It's right to keep your heroic identity a secet from your dearests, because it's dangerous. It also create tension, which is good for storytelling. Sure, the show solidify that reality by enhancing the danger in Metropolis, but it doesn't have to. Invincible works under the modern assumption on secret identity - sharing it with your close circle is both helpful and safer than it was. Keeping it a secret will sour your relationship, as it does in the show. It's more realistic, which is what people expect and love from this show. So it's a bit weird that now people complain... One last difference - Clark "told" Lois only when he had no choice. He was willing to keep living with the secret until "the right time", whenever that would be. Mark told Amber when he realised that this is a way to save his relationship. If you think about it, Mark is being two faced here - if wantd to tell her, he should have done so much sooner, and if he didn't want to, he should have hide it and bear the consequences. Let me say this differently: Clark revealed his secret to save Lois life. Mark revealed his identity as a get out of a ruined relationship card. That's why both his friends grill him for it. That's what "stringing her along" means. Not to mention, Invincible is focused on Mark, so we don't get complete access to Amber's thoughts, nor should we. MAW Superman seems to focus on Lois, as the show assumes we know Superman well enough after 90 years...
I don't care if it's creator or some intern, new Amber is awful and lacks actual compelling narrative weight of the original, as og relationship with Amber was breaking her apart like Debbie with Nolan, and them breaking up was for the better for everyone involved. It was unique, compelling and mocked the tropes that comic writers over use for sake of drama. OG comic had real sense of natural human growth with some parody snark while show is turned into shitshow comic was pissing on and avoiding to be.
Yes. Thank you for pointing out that Lois has no good answer when Clark reveals his reason for keeping his secret. The only thing she can do is fall back on her line of "Whatever we were, whatever we were going to be, not going to happen anymore." You can even take this line to mean that she's hurt and therefore is trying to make Clark hurt too. After all, people do stupid things when they're mad. You can write a character being irrationally angry, but the reason they're angry HAS TO make sense. The moment Amber revealed she already knew Mark's secret, her entire reason vanished.
I appreciate this video... When this episode dropped, it kinda reignited the dumpster fire over Amber as well, as people were making comparisons, and it became very apparent that people never took time to think critically about *why* the scene with Amber felt so bad. People were too busy being butt hurt over her being different from the comic version. It seemed they never thought clearly about *what* in the writing wasn't working and why, content to just say "Amber is toxic." It had me hella confused when people started making the comparisons between Lois and Amber like this... because unlike in Invincible, we have clear and explicit knowledge of what Lois is thinking and feeling... Like... it's stated clearly BEFORE the revelation scene, *with* extension. In the scene with Amber, we had nothing explicit from Amber beyond clearly being unhappy with Mark's disappearing acts and lack of communication. It's enough to infer that being upset about being "lied to" was about more than just the lies... but we have *no* indication of what her *actual* problem with the lies are stemming from. Even when *not* just assuming the worst, calling her "toxic" and moving on, what little we can infer doesn't help much. Is it just that she doesn't like being lied to, in general? Is it some immature teenager thing? Perhaps, after finding out Mark is a superhero, she'd assumed that he was actually more put together than he was presenting himself as Mark, and the reason his lies were so bad was because he thought she was stupid or something.... We don't know! The *only* vague indication to that last idea was her reasoning of "I guess I wasn't the only one being lied to" that she gave when she forgave him at the end. Oh and the narrative parallel being drawn between their fight and the falling out between Debbie and Nolan... Being left to our own devices to understand what's going on in her head, when she was already primed to be hated because of the changes made to her from her comic counterpart, was a recipe for disaster. The writing for Lois in these scenes runs *laps* around that train wreck.
God i fucking hate those type of people being overly obssesed over Louis sexynes. Because this is the type of shit that happen when someone only sees a character by their looks. Looking at you fighting game community!
@@naolidecomisso4108 Like... Creepily obsessed? Or just that usual obsession with sexiness in people and characters that finds its way into everything?
@@Mai57 i think that It would be the usual one, thought a little bit more exagerated Like they aren't creepy with such thing, they are Just really annoying because they dont really seen to say any other charter trait of her other than her appearence, also those people for some reason think loies is a tomboy, like bruh she Just has a short hair and thats It.
@@naolidecomisso4108 lol "tomboy" seriously? Is it because she wears pants instead of a pencil skirt? This isn't the first iteration to do that, though... It *can't* be because she's also physically active and can throw a punch, since this isn't the first iteration of Lois to do that, either... This isn't even the first version to have shorter hair! Though this is possibly the shortest it's ever been... Did the hair just push the aesthetic too far for some of them, or something?
The biggest difference though is that Amber actually already KNEW Mark was Invincible WHILE they were at the college. She didn't find out at that point like Lois did. She KNEW he was Invincible; KNEW he was risking his life repeatedly; KNEW he was getting EFFED UP and almost dying on multiple occasions ans STILL calls him a bad boyfriend and treats him like a trash human. So unless Lois treats Clark like garbage and STILL knows he Superman, there IS NO comparison.
Well-done video essay: not only succint but also with your style. You have no idea how nice it is to mention/credit the music playing at different parts.
I could see this comparison happening in the distance, at it could not be a worse one. The main difference being there's no one in the show taking Lois' side in the conflict. Meanwhile, you had all of Mark's friends taking Amber's side, gaslighting him into thinking he's in the wrong when theres valid reason on his side. I dont see Invincible season 2 getting better if they dont amend that writing flaw. And I only see Superman getting better with their writing
Lois throwing herself off a building is of course reckless, but that's nothing new for Lois Lane as a whole, particularly a young and still developing one. That aside, Clark and Lois have equally valid feelings and points, they just happened to bounce off of each other in the worst way as of now. People aren't always going to do everything perfectly, even in stories. They're only human after all, and Lois's flawed human nature is actually kind of what makes her work as a character and the love of Clark's life. She's flawed, but she genuinely wants to do and fight for the right thing. I've always thought she's kinda a personification of Superman's relationship with humanity and how he'll still go to bat for us despite our worst, because he knows what we can be at our best. Besides, I guarantee you Clark and Lois will have patched things up by the end of this week's episode, just you wait. EDIT: Yes, yes they did, told ya so. ;)
The biggest difference is that Amber is emotionally abusive and Lois isn’t. Amber knew exactly why Mark had to run out, but still made him grovel before her (after saving her life). Lois first concern was that Clark was okay. She’s mad he’s lied, but she also is shown to have cared about his safety first. It might be a small difference between the two scenes, but it’s an important one. I think Amber would have come off better if the writers didn’t decide to have her already know. That one thing recontextualizes the fallout from his fight scene against the cyborg and not in a good way for her.
You know, it's funny because in the comics, Amber is very different in both personality and appearance from her counterpart on the show. Looks like the writers and chara-designers really wanted to make the audience dislike her.
Amber isn’t toxic lol. She’s a victim of bad writing. Invincible writing staff seems to have trouble creating good female characters. It’s like they put all of their energy into Eve and no one else
I saw a video about the MCU not doing secret identities and for me it completely removes the drama and trope of "Why didn't you tell me? You could've trust me with your secret!' and so on (In the best way I mean). I understand why the trope is there, but after Miraculous and Invincible, I'm done with secret identities, give us a hero who everyone knows the name and face of like Naruto or the TMNT (for the last one, mostly their friends and very close allies, not NY unless you watched the live action movies)
Amber is a perfect example of writers not understanding that being a strong female character does not make them an a-hole and being an a-hole does not make someone a strong female character.
mysoginist grifting a-holes and yellowflash video editors that love to ignore context, were so quick to jump on Lois over something she literally gets over in the next episode that brings her and Clark even closer than ever before. Just goes to show that these people that complain the loudest don't actually watch the show and are only interested in pushing whatever messed up agenda they stand for. Then they oversimplify it kind of like clickbait and people fall for it.But of course they'll ignore that Lois's perspective is challenged by Clark and that in the very next episode they start their relationship officially. Why? Because they got what they wanted. It's up to everyone else to not buy into the idiocy or actually follow up on the show and see what happens. But they don't count on anyone that thinks like they do to do that, because the people that think like they do don't actually watch the show in the first place.
The thing that bothers me with online discussions of Amber is that people will say "She's the one bad part of the show" or "Worst character ever" when I really like her EXCEPT for that one episode. Before that I think she was really charming and endearing. And then they just wrote her conflict with Mark so poorly that it made people hate her character as a whole.
It's a shame to know a bad ending to something can sour the entire feeling on it. Technically they'll have more time to do things with amber for sure but I have a feeling the show makers know that bridge is burned
Honestly if you remove the fact that Amber knew all along her anger would make more sense. In the Invincible comics Amber there genuiely did not know at all and thought Mark was doing something bad or shady on the side (like drug dealing) which was why he wasn't showing up on time. The reveal that she already knew ahead of time just made her look like an asshole retroactively. I mean teens can be immature idiots but I think most would understand that superhero work is no joke really, also considering Amber had a thing for helping people it seems incredibly odd and dumb that she wouldn't be atleast happy it wasn't something else instead of superheroics. Also the making moves on another guy thing not long after was also pretty cruel with the knowledge that she knew by then. It really felt like they were trying to inject drama into the relationship without needing too and that the writing team did it in the dumbest way possible. There could of been so many other ways things wouldn't work out between them, like seeing Mark getting hurt badly trying to be a superhero and such. I don't hate Amber really after watching Invicible the second time, I just really dislike what the writers did with her.
Yeah I agree most of the time I liked her character, even defending her in episode 6, it's only in episode 7 where I couldn't defend her anymore as it literally undermined most of my reasons for defending her.
I just caught up last night, but the latest episode really sells it even more. The way that Lois, while angry with Clark, puts that aside to help Jimmy, and over the course of doing that becomes visibly increasingly guilty about how she approached the situation, especially as Clark puts himself between her and danger to keep her safe - it just works very well. But Clark isn’t absolved either - he’s also confronted by Jimmy on it, and they both push him to explain why he kept them out of that part of his life. MAWS handles the secret superhero with a lot more maturity than Invincible does, by balancing the emotional consequences of such a huge secret with the genuine reasoning behind keeping such a thing secret. Which is surprising, since Mark’s reasoning is more pragmatic than Clark’s IMO.
First up, you got a new sub. Second, I honestly think that _Ben 10: Alien Force_ handled the standard superhero genre trope of relationship tension over the secret identity incredibly well... *by skipping it entirely.* Julie finds out Ben's secret identity on their first date, and says that it's cool. Later on, Ben's life as a superhero does have friction with his time with Julie, but she repeatedly forgives him (despite him eventually being a much worse boyfriend than Mark from _Invincible,_ looking at you UA season 1 filler) because she's willing to put the greater good of the world above Ben sitting in the stands of a tennis match.
Flash forward to today’s episode: Lois is worried that Clark’s feelings for her were an act. And…I honestly think that’s a valid worry. Yes she could have handled it better, but it makes sense.
I feel another thing was that she was thinking about, "what other stuff could Clark be lying about or what lies has he told to keep his identity a secret?" That is more human than, "i got on your ass for leaving even though the reason was because you cared about my safety!"
I think the biggest difference is that as much as lois has done something bad she still has a good justification for feeling betrayed and the show doesn't gloss over what she did, and her motives while in invincible everyone takes amber's side and treat mark like a villain
Lois is in truth what Amber only pretends to be: a brave, independent young woman who deeply cares about her friends' wellbeing, is genuinely hurt by the lack of trust between them, and is actually proactive in trying to communicate with others and resolve conflicts with them.
Amber was the “angry black woman” trope and for what? Tired of seeing us portrayed that way. Lois is just impulsive, hard headed, and stupid sometimes but we’ve all been there before.
We can say that both are angry about being lied to but I feel like the anger comes from different places. Amber's anger comes from a sense of entitlement to all of her boyfriend's time even though she knows he's a superhero and has no consideration or care for that fact. Lois's anger comes from a place of genuine worry and care, she shows affection when they aren't even dating yet all for a little cut that doesn't even show up in the same scene for a few shots. Amber however utterly dismisses Mark as if she's some sort of queen dismissing an unruly subject and only when she sees him being beaten to near death by his own father does she come back, it took a demi-god beating him on live TV and using his body to murder thousands for her to show even the slightest hint of empathy towards Mark. So the moral of the story is this. Communication is the most important thing in any relationship and if you both want something or have expectations then you should make that clear and use your voice like an adult.
Clark does not owe Lois anything. She lies to everyone around her and is manipulative about it. She has good chemistry with Clark, but it doesn't erase her past actions.
Great analysis I totally agree objectively any sane person should agree honestly. It's easy to understand. I don't understand ,some people just wanna argue I guess. Thanks for the vid I enjoyed it
Folks just have PTSD from Amber so they are taking out on Lois. It’s like when someone gets cheated on so they get super distrusting even if they have no reason to be
LOL, I would love to see a follow up to this in the wake of the most recent of episode of My Adventures with Superman. Especially, since it comes with a spoon full of vindication lol. Episode 6 even reveals the BIG reason she was mad at Clark which even made her initial anger make even more sense. Spoiler: She was worried Clark's interest in her was part of his deception in an effort to keep her from finding him out. I'm a grown-ass man and even I was like "Awwww..." when she said that. But it's a logical reason to worry in a situation like that.
I agree that the two are different, Amber is way worse. Although I am hoping that Lois only said what said on the roof out of anger and didn’t mean it. Even if it doesn’t make it that much better, at least she could calm down and later apologize about how she was being irrational and unfair. However, after everything Lois did to Clark up to this point, no man that cares about their well being should ever get involved with this version of Lois. 1. She almost got Clark fired upon their first meeting. (Lied and abused his trust) 2. She constantly puts Clark’s life in danger by constantly getting him involved with criminals. (Him being Superman doesn’t make it ok, because she believes she’s brining a mortal man) 3. She actively puts herself in danger by chasing criminals, breaking the law, and intentionally getting captured to get her story. (What man would want date a woman that he would have to constantly worry about because she might kill herself doing something stupid.)
i mean the idea of lois lane putting herself in harms way, to get a story is who lois lane is. that's the reason why clark kent likes her, it's her go getter attitude.
@@johnthai6188 he does like her go getter attitude, he does like the fact that she’s brave. He doesn’t like that she puts her in danger. Which is why he always voicing his disapproval of said action.
@@Salazar.945 all i'm saying is the "lois putting herself in danger" is part of her characteristic. she always put's herself in harms way for a story. even in the 90s cartoon show, she put's herself in dangers for a story. so this character trait isn't a new thing: that this show made up.
@@johnthai6188 I’m not saying it’s a new thing, that trait has been around since the beginning. However this new Lois has gotten rid of some her core good traits and replaced them with very bad once. And these bad one changes her go getter attitude into a cut through, short sighted, suicidal idiot. But hey as long as Lois is cute/sexy, and the audience is not directly affected by her actions then everything is fine right? If the genders were reversed would people say male Lois is justified in her action? This woman literally tried to get herself and Jimmy into a hostage situation. That ice explosion could have killed both of them; and for what, so she could force Clark to reveal he’s Superman. These are action I would only accept from a young stupid teenager.
@@Salazar.945 i mean most of lois's actions from the comics and other media can be labeled as cut throat, short sighted and suicidal. like in crossover episode with batman and superman, called world finest, she has done those things. like she moves on from superman to get with bruce wayne. but when she finds out bruce wayne is batman, she moves on to be with superman. also the characterization of lois like this was also in the superman for all seasons comic. where she was short sighted and a cut throat. or the time where lois wasn't fazed in a hostage situation on a plane that she was in: that's pretty suicidal. also these characters in the new animated show, are much younger versions.
I mean, Clark kept a secret from Lois for several good reasons, but even tried to tell her at times. First, while they are friends, they aren't a couple yet by Lois's own admission, so there is a least some expectation Clark isn't going to reveal it to just anyone. Second, Lois said she would expose him which at the very least would have caused him some doubt to outright tell her. Third, it's incredibly clear Clark is simply too dense to realize that Lois knows without her just outright coming out with it, or at minimum seems to prefer to keep up the lame charade then admit it. That's really the fault on Clark's side, he incredibly naive and socially dense when he doesn't pick up on it during the "You, me and Superman, at the SAME TIME" scene. It is a very mean to have done what Lois did, as she just needed to say "Clark...you're an idiot, I know it's you, please stop pretending, I care about you, we can go over it later, just please stop lying to me." instead of jumping off a building an endangering her life and potentially endangering a secret he clearly wants to keep. That or earlier in the episode just sitting Clark down and saying "Hey Clark, I want you to be honest with me....this is serious. Are you Superman?" and go from there. I mean, it does show at least Lois trusts Clark enough to do the right thing, that his secret identity isn't more important to him then her life is but it's still a bit of a cruel thing to force the issue in this way, since he literally has no choice but to save her. Especially since she knows he's just trying to do the right thing with his powers, and cares for her, as he admitted several times earlier. The thing though is, Lois making that jump isn't out of character for her in this iteration. She pushes the envelope with everyone, often to her own danger, without thinking of the consequences, and keeps doing it since she's always managed to find a way out. It sadly comes across as a little bit of a cheap way to inflate the drama, and create a cliffhanger to see how this goes down, but lets be honest, it has worked. It doesn't work for Amber/Mark since as there isn't that degree of mutual interaction here, but I would speculate the reason is ... Their relationship is being written as bad and destined to fail, because that is what happens in the comics, but is being done so, poorly. The Invincible series is a cleaned up for animation retelling of the comics and very much the slightly cleaned up "Bruce Timm" version of Invincible, not a new spin on the story as My Adventures is. It comes across as an attempt to make their eventual break up seem more justified then the actual reason, that not everyone can have a relationship with someone who has to live a dangerous and even double life and that Mark really shouldn't be keeping these secrets (which I think he comes clean earlier in the comics but could be mistaken). I can only presume this is being done to compress time and make the break-up happen sooner because not all of the material is going to make it into the animation. That said, how it should have gone down was Amber saying "Look, I knew you are a superhero but you lied to me and it hurt me, and when you promised to help fix our relationship, you had to have known there was no way you could have made that commitment as a Superhero. I also don't know if I can date a Superhero." not the cold shoulder "Screw you Mark, how dare you leave to save lives, well onto the next guy." without anything approaching a reasonable explanation. It's not until he gets the crap kicked out of him by his father, there isn't even a hint she regrets calling it off and that she basically only gets back together with him out of guilt, which isn't exactly a healthy thing either, whereas if she was still conflicted about their relationship, it makes more sense for her to reach back out. It may be being intentionally portrayed as an unhealthy relationship, both in how Mark is keeping secrets and making promises he can't keep and how Amber is interacting with Mark, again to get Mark with Eve sooner.
I like your point on the Amber/Mark relationship. It sucks that they’d be doing it that way too, since in the comics their break up is still due to Mark being a hero, but Amber realizing that Mark needs someone who can keep up with him and she needs someone that moves at her pace. It’s a very realistic portrayal of a relationship that naturally ends, not because of toxicity, but because the two involved people just need different things.
@@n7_glucose I am to understand in the comics as well, Mark often gets on the rocks with Eve as well. This may also again, being done to compress things. Instead of having to dedicate a lot of time to Eve and Mark working things out, Mark learns the things he did wrong with Amber and doesn't make the same mistakes with Eve, or Eve accuses Mark acting like he did with Amber and dramatically, the time to engage in self discovery to fix the problem is reduced to a simple "You're right" I do hope I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.
One thing I like about their dynamic pre-reveal is how they're both a bit in the wrong at first (Lois a little more for feeling entitled to know something about someone she doesn't know at the time, Clark for not being open with her despite lecturing her on being truthful) and how Clark's hesitation and Lois' obsession leads to the other then having justifiable reasons for their actions. Clark, under his Superman persona, doesn't tell her, she gets frustrated due to hating being lied to. Then, when he finally works up the courage to tell her, he hesitates long enough for her anger at Superman to boil over. Her outburst then gives him a valid reason not to tell her. He was just about to spill the beans, which would have definately resulted in a bit of an arguement regardless given her patience had already reached it's limits, and then he feels like he dodged a bullet by not telling her. Then she figures it out. Upon learning the truth, that Clark is Superman, it is no longer about exposing him, but getting him to admit it to her. Her anger at him is still there, but her connection to the whole thing is much more personal now. The "stranger" who's been lying to her, is someone she considers a friend. Someone who told her not to lie. So she makes more and more obvious hints that she knows, practically spelling it out, while not saying it to give him a chance to open up on his own terms. In this way, she is still treating him as someone she cares about. But at this point, Clark is afraid that she's gonna expose him. A valid fear given that he hasn't seen her change of heart regarding what she'd do with the information. So he lies, and does a very bad job at it, even if she didn't know, she'd see through his BS. While SHE knows she wouldn't expose his identity to the world now that she knows it's Clark, he has no way of knowing. As far as he knows, her knowing would make her hate him. When the reveal happens, it happens because she put him in a lose/lose situation. Either let someone he cares about die, or lose his secret and, from his POV, it would be out there for EVERYONE to see, and the relationship they had would be gone too. While it's understandable that she's desperate at this point, that doesn't excuse her, which she comes around to realising. When she tells him "I would never do that to you", it genuinely seems like between figuring out the truth, and that point, she'd forgotten about that, because it was no longer her aim, and it was a bit of an "oh yeah, I did act like that" moment.
Having read the Invincible comic and knowing where Mark and Amber eventually end up (unless they radically change everything) I think what the writers were trying to set up is that Mark and Amber are simply too different from each other to be able to have a stable relationship, which is why in the end they end up breaking things off and Mark gets with Eve instead, someone who does understand what Mark goes through and Mark doesn't feel he needs to hide things from in order to protect. The only issue with that in Invincible is instead of treating this as like a sad fact of life the narrative instead says that Amber is in the right totally and that Mark is somehow defective, when really they both just have different needs that neither is able to really provide for each other.
What pisses me off the most about Amber is how she gets mad at Mark for leaving during the attack, then suposedly knows he was Invincible and was fighting his ass off during said attack... so what the hell was she even mad about!? And yeah, Lois is nowhere near that kind of thinking, i didn't imagine to tie those two together until i saw other people doing so.
Nailed it. Amber's actions made perfect sense right up until you learn she already knew then looking back she acted terribly. They still could have had her break up with him, so long as she didn't know and the reveal took her off guard.
Two things. 1- We get ample scenes from Lois's POV that should make it clear that Superman is Bad at hiding his identity. Like the Dumbell scene earlier in the Fall episode. She only has her outburst when he kept lying long after he was clearly caught. 2 - Even Lois throwing herself off the building is foreshadowed in the Parasite episode. The villain, wanting to draw out Superman, just tosses one of the members of the board out his window in the middle of the night with the complete certainty that Superman would catch him. Implying that Superman had gained a reputation for always being around to catch a falling person.
The problem with Lois in this cartoon is how they made her angry at Superman/Clark because of her own self entitlement. It all started with scene at 1:40 in this video. She's enraged because someone isn't making her the center of the universe and giving her all their life secrets, and she gets pissy about it as if Superman owes her something in life. For some reason she's mad even before she discovers the Clark-Superman link. Its typical new age writer logic, she's got issues with her father and the rest of the world... but she's going to take it out on Clark because he didn't shape how he handles HIS life around what she wanted. Lois in cartoon and series has often had a touch of narcissism, thinking she's awesome enough that people will just give up stories from her existing in same 20 foot space, but never as bad as in this cartoon. If Lois was a man in the story she would be labeled as toxic. I get people are claiming all relationships are built on trust. But Clark basically just met Lois. They've not even been on a date, but ya'll holding it against the guy that he hasn't divulged his deepest secrets to her. Its as dumb as having Bruce Wayne meet a lady, they chat and flirt across multiple social events, then writers have her get mad because Bruce didn't tell her he's Batman when they first met. Where's the logic there? What right does someone even have to be angry because a WORK ASSOCIATE isn't telling you everything they do in their life? I'm fine with just discounting it all as it being a kid's show so we shouldn't think about it too much. But what does the writing teach your kids? Other then how to be a spoiled emotional narcissist.
Bruh. Clark literally calls her out for her impulsivity and selfishness multiple times and she apologizes for it. Have you even watched the show, dude, or are you getting your info from it from angry Reddit and twitter posts?
None of these characters are entitled to the secret identity of a superhero. To say they don’t trust them is in fact accurate on some degree. The hero doesn’t trust you like that yet, it takes time to build real trust. And god forbid they are in a series where superheros get captured and taken advantage and it’s known throughout the verse, then that only solidifies it more. the myriad of ways shit can go wrong if they put their trust in the wrong person is understandable. Now those same heroes don’t get to say they were protecting said person by keeping them in the dark. As if you really wanted to protect them you would not be with them. And would instead get with another hero or villain or entity all together. They rehash the same trope but have yet to honestly subvert it. Have the non hero character straight up say I understand why you kept it hidden but I can’t be with you due to the myriad of ways shit can go belly up. That they won’t be put in a situation where they have to worry bout themselves, family or even the hero all day everyday. Then leave for good while maybe being on speaking terms
Hey everyone! Thanks for watching and all the discussions in the comments, it’s been real fun reading them all. This is my first scripted video, so I was real nervous that I would mess it up but this may be more in my wheelhouse after all.
I’ll definitely be trying my hand at more discussion/review videos for shows and games.
Great analysis.
Do more vids like this. Fyi I subscribed because of this vid
A little detail you didn't mention in the video , when Lois asks Clark if he really thought she would reveal his secret identity when she knew it was him Clark says something along the lines of 'you just jumped off a building I don't know what to think' which highlights just how absurd and how far she is willing to take things so of course he would have his doubts.
BTW I think there is a strong case to show that Amber was a bad person from the start even without that 'twist' recontextualizing everything to be worse. She had never been shown to actually like, or be endeared by Mark she only asked him out when she saw him leave with the IT girl Eve not when he stood up for her against Tod she didn't even thank him if I recall. And when he came back from getting hit by a 'bus' she didn't show concern but instead started to talk about how she dumped him even tho he didn't come because he got hit by a 'bus' and almost fucking died. Who does that? Who won't give a guy a pass for missing your stupid soup kitchen cause he almost fucking died? Not a good person thats who and now with her knowing that he almost died on hero duty that its soo much worse. Seriously she did not get ruined because of that one scene she was horrible from the start.
Good vid. Just finished rewatching invincible. The tug of war between watching your significant other be a hero and lacking the quality time to make a relationship work could be a very interesting very real conundrum. Unfortunately the writers fumbled the bag. Hopefully the writers can clear up why their relationship doesn’t work in the next season.
The difference between them is this.
When Lois is written to be impulsive, sometimes hypercritical and having trust issues it's written as a flaw. She says sorry to clark about lying and she tends to apologize later.
With Amber the writing forces invisible to apologize and the story acts like he is the issue .
But that’s the thing, Mark does not apologize and is the issue. Mark knew the issue with the relationship steamed from his superhero identity. He constantly lied to her and did it poorly. He valued his secret identity of the lives of others until his friend was in trouble. He made a promosise he could not keep and broke it. He had 3 opportunities to fix the relationship and choose the worst option each time.
@@mangamandrew
He never valued his secret identity over people's lives, the literal reason his relationship was screwed is because he kept choosing to be a Hero instead of choosing to spend time with his girlfriend.
It's f*cking delusional to say Mark is in the wrong for risking his life to save other people and wanting to preserve his secret identity to protect his normal life and friends, he's a teenager who just got his powers and wanted the perks of both being a hero and a normal teen.
On the other hand, the show starts with Amber blackmailing someone into giving Mark her number, and gaslighting him into telling her by saying he "left her alone" when she knew he was the one who got his ass kicked to save her, and then tried to get into another guy's pants a few minutes after wordlessly breaking up with Mark.
Jesus f*cking Christ
This characters can and should be flawed is how world reacts to those flaws that matters. If characters flaws are never challenged never changed then it's bad writing
@@motivated2473 being a hero is not an excuse for being a bad partner. And he did value his secret identity over human life because instead of fighting the robot immediately threatening their lives, he hesitated because he did not want to reveal his secret identity. The relationship was screwed because Mark could not balance his responsibilities and that was a all on him.
And she blackmailed someone who was harassing her and Mark to leave them alone. Someone like that does not take no for an answer so she had to do it hat needed to be done to protect herself and Mark. She did not gaslight Mark. Amber knew he was as a superhero, not invincible. The people of their world can’t recognize heroes immediately even if they aren’t wearing a mask. And she did not wordless breakup with Mark, while she did not say “we a done” or anything to that extent. That argument was them breaking up. Also, she was not trying to have sex with that guy. She was going for a rebound which I s not inherently bad. And even then, she stops the pursuit when she realizes he has a GF.
Invincible is objectively the problem in the comic. If you can't see that, then you're probably not going to be successful in real world relationships.
I've said this elsewhere: Lois isn't upset at Clark, she is upset at her father.
The biggest reason she liked him was his ethics. She thought she found a guy who was exactly the opposite of her father. Now it turns out he has a double life too and it is bringing out all her old resentments. Why do you think she became a "Crusading Journalist"?
It's not so strange really. My grandmother said that the reason she fell for my grandfather in the first place was "he was the kindest man I had ever met."
Considering that her father's way of greeting her was to loudly complain about how fat she had gotten, I cannot say I am surprised.
I hadn’t thought of that reasoning at all, but it makes perfect sense! Kind of wish I could’ve put it in the video
It doens't matter Clarks doesn't know his dad and she should be AWARE of this, one has a double life being the embodyment of hope, the other one is brings dead to people as any other general does oh wait I meant "protect america".
@@AzureWilerI think years of Lois having to move from state and the fact that Sam never told her what her own mothers illness she was dying seems to have lead her to become very pissed when she feels that she is being lied too which is why I bet she became a journalist.
She still seems to love Clark but his lack of honesty when he was always trying to get her to be more honest in her actions is kinda dickish as a relationship needs to built on trust
Yo... THIS. Spot on dude. People need to give the show time. Like shit, the next episode will probably address this
@@kwayneboy1524 yeah it wasn't explicit but i thought a huge part of her rage was that clark looked like a massive hypocrite since he lectured others about not keeping secrets while not living up to that standard himself
Can we also take the time to appreciate how Jimmy knew Clark's secret this whole time but respected his privacy? He did not pull an Amber either.
Folks need to be like Jimmy, y'all.
If only Lois showed the same respect.
@@gaara4667, I mean she said herself that she wasn't sure he was honest about his feelings towards her, she clearly thought it was a front for Superman.
@@KingKeanuTheFirst that changes nothing. She never respected his privacy and forced personal information out of him.
Jimmy is Clarks best friend but he didn’t use that to beat Clark into revealing personal information about himself. 🤷🏿♂️
@@gaara4667exactly, if lois found out, she should have given him time or chances over a period of time to explain his situation. That would build trust too. But nah she was feeling too jumpy for that lmao
The change of Amber’s personality is just absolutely questionable. In the comics, she was just worried that Mark was a drug dealer and when he revealed the truth she actually was relieved. But as Mark’s responsibilities got heavier and heavier, she started to grow distant and at one point nearly had a nervous breakdown because she could not live with it all. They broke up ON GOOD TERMS, and whenever she needed his help, Mark was willing to be there for her.
The show has her just be a total POS and I can’t believe Mark is okay with getting back together. What’s worse is she equated HIS lying with HIS DAD’S lying, which are on two whole other degrees.
A lot of people say comic book Amber is boring but to me the way the two handled the situation was done a lot better in the comics both sides talked and listened to each other and came to a understanding that it wasn’t gonna work and yes they broke up but it was mutual. And it showed a lot of growth in both mark and amber to come to that understanding and still be on good terms. But tv amber is completely different she doesn’t even try to understand mark at all and I gotta be honest mark was a lot calmer than I would’ve been after she told me she knew. If I got beaten by my dad and found out what my dad was planning and she had the nerve to show up to my door and compare me lying to finding out my entire race are basically saiyans that door would flew off cause of how hard I’d slam it in her face.
Just wait until they do that story arc with Mark and his unfortunate interaction with a female Viltrumite.
They'll probably either pretend it didn't happen or it'll somehow be his fault.
@@theguylivinginyourwalls the only way mark gets a win in the show is IF he meets Anissa (I think that's her name) and Anissa meets amber at which point she'd cripple or kill amber and apologize to mark🤣
@@theguylivinginyourwalls na that man got assaulted and that showed how men can be assaulted to. God help them If they do either of those things.
@@curtismcpsycho8212 na they’ll probably make up some bs to make amber somehow get powers and be able to take Thragg all by herself.
The new episode points EVERYTHING out and makes it clear.
Lois just wasn't angry that Clark lied to her. She thought Clark had been lying about the budding relationship as well.
honestly that part hit me in the feels a bit
angry enough to die on the off chance that she is wrong?
@@georgesmith6218 Well to be fair at least Clark called her out on it right after so the writers are acknowledging that: Yes this was crazy of her to do even if she is right.
That part was peak stupid.
Like, there's no reason for her to think that if Clark was lying about Superman he'd be lying about having feelings for Lois. That was crappy writer back pedaling, trying to launder Lois from being kind of a shitty person into less of a shitty person. It's doubly-stupid when you remember that Lois is supposed to be, at least, a base-level reporter with a more cynical and logical eye.
@@georgesmith6218 Can't be Lois Lane unless she jumps of a building or two
Another thing to point out was that in the first episode of Superman, Clark called out Lois for lying, so she is understandably mad at him for lying to her.
He wasn’t Superman then
@@roachofdoom1234 I don't think this is the point.
No, she's not, because she has had no reason to lie to him and does it in every episode with zero consequences. Yes he called her out and then immediately convinced himself that he was wrong. He lied to her about something he doesn't even fully understand yet, something that she was trying to expose and has proved that she is not a trustworthy person.
She lied to him about his job and something that could potentially ruin his life. He is choosing to not tell her about his personal life yet. Not really comparable.
@@thesourpatchkidd579This did not happen. For one, Clark does not convince himself that she was correct. If anything with the small amount we hear from him talking to himself, he's certain he's correct but is just struggling with that because he does like Lois. And second of all, that episode ends with Lois apologizing to Clark and saying he was right and that she would be more honest with him. Even saying something along the lines of "no secrets between friends" setting up the ending from episode 5 even more.
Lois in this case actually exhibited behavior seen in her past incarnations. Rash judgement, hot tempered, jumping into dangerous situations just to get to the bottom of a story, all character traits we've seen of her in past versions. The fact that the writers of the show made the audience fall in love with her before we saw all this just shows how well written her character is. People are just mad cause until this point, they just viewed her as a reincarnation of Luz Noceda.
There are a few other reason people might get mad. It's not '"just" the Luz thing.
Some people are going to be upset because they came to this show for cutesy moments, and they are instead suddenly getting drama. And since the show has really not given them much else besides cutesy moments prior to this, that group being caught off guard isn't that crazy.
Also, some people are always going to get annoyed when a character in a show is being dumb. That's just unavoidable. And the writers, by not resolving this before the end of the episode, will have further enflamed that annoyance in those people.
I'm sure there's a bunch more, but those are the ones that apply to me.
@@jef_3006 As someone comes for cute moment and now have to deal with drama. Yeah, you sum it up really well
Wait, she isn't a rehashed Luz Noseda? :O
@@jef_3006 I genuinely don't know how to tell you this, friend, but this is a coming-of-age Superman show. There was ALWAYS going to be some bit of drama between the characters. Hell, Lois jumping off a roof is actually fairly minor compared to the stuff she did in the old Fleischer cartoons.
As for her acting stupid - characters are allowed to make irrational decisions if it's based off of their own pre-established internal logic. In Lois' case, she new for certain that Clark was certain due to a variety of factors:
- Him throwing that dumbell in a box like it was nothing
- He came from Smalltown,Kansas, and there were rumors of a Smalltown flying boy in the tabloids going back over a decade
- The sudden scrapes he had on his neck
- He has the EXACT SAME FACE, BUILD AND VOICE as superman
Honestly, this Clark Kent did a poor job hiding his secret identity, so it only made sense that Lois would figure it out. She was pissed off that he was lying to her face, just as her father did when her mom was dying, and so she jumped off that roof as a way to call his bluff.
@@seagullman87 There's a difference between having drama between the characters, and having "drama" between the characters. You can have characters have disagreement where they can't find a solution, without one of them declaring an end to the relationship, storming off, and leaving the audience on an emotional cliff hanger. The latter isn't necessarily bad writing, but I personally do not enjoy it.
I wish people would stop saying, "Lois did crazier things in the comics" as though it was a defense of this. I'm sure there were some Superman comics where Lois was racists. That doesn't mean modern Lois should be racist. When you do an adaptation, you change things.
And of course characters are allowed to act stupid. Equally, I am allowed to be annoyed by characters acting stupid. It should really be taken as a compliment; if I didn't buy Lois as a character, I wouldn't be so annoyed by her being dumb.
It's not like I don't like the show anymore after this episode or anything. The scene just annoys me.
Amber is toxic, and the Invincible writers seem to think her views and actions are justified. In contrast Lois is a sympathetic character who exhibits human flaws. I don't think the Superman writers expect the audience to cosign on her behavior. I just wish they'd fix some of the tumblrish dialog.
In the first episode Lois realizes SHE was in the wrong and apologized to Clark
As for Amber, she gave Mark the silent treatment and tried to flirt with another dude on the same night
@@GlorytoAllah749 Her stubbornness and drive have always been shown to be equal parts greatest strength and greatest weakness. It's integral to her character.
@@GlorytoAllah749 Amber didnt flirt.
I think that the point and version of Amber is to eventually cut ties with Mark, especially knowing that Eve is placed with more emphasis in invincible
And Lois has a major gyat
We were given an entire episode worth of Lois suspecting and getting more information regarding this secret before pulling the old Superman 2 fall to seal the deal. With Amber, we're given an out of absolutely nowhere "I already know", leading us no choice but to view her previous actions as playing mind games in the middle of a life or death battle.
Yeah her knowing the entire time recontextualizes all of her actions with Mark and in a very, very bad way. It goes from her being unfair to Mark because of being mistaken, to her being unfair to Mark because she's just a twisted nasty piece of shit.
Didn't Lois jump out of the window in Daily planet in superman 1? She jumped off of a Niagara falls in superman 2.
The Niagara Falls scene is what I was referring to. I believe she jumped out the window in a deleted scene from Superman 2, or maybe it's in the Donner cut. There's another deletion where she shoots Clark with a blank in the gun. (Instead of him falling into the fire.)@@sonnywoods6846
@@sonnywoods6846 Lois jumping out of the window or off a building was already a iconic part of her character long before this show ever came out.
They also set it up that she knew and we knew Lois knew unlike amber who we never knew knew and who acted like a unreasonable bitch when she knew. Lois is reaction is a lot more believable and better written.
Another problem with Amber is that the writers of that show treat her as perfect, infallible, and correct. There was no scenario where Mark wins, his relationship with her was a lose/lose scenario. Yes, he lied about his secret identity, but since Amber had already figured it out, she should have realized why he was hiding it. You know, like every other hero in that universe does. As is the super hero trope. She also would have realized he didn't just run away and leave her alone, since she already knew Mark was Invincible, she literally watched Mark save her. Yet immediately after she treats him like he ran away like a coward and left her unprotected with a monster. The story treats her like she's right and holy and Mark is wrong. She actually treated him worse AFTER he realized he needed to tell her and revealed himself to her. That's why people hate Amber and Lois is nowhere near as bad. Lois isn't presented as perfect and flawless by the writers and her reactions are reasonable (well, reasonable in a world Superman exists anyway). Lois has character growth and probably will have more in the future.
Amber is a bad character.
And what makes it worse is that Amber was a better character in the Invincible comics. For one she was white (sorry but it has to be said, I hate unnecessary race-swaps of established characters, just getting it out of the way) and 2, she was WAY more wholesome. A bit bland, but more wholesome.
When Mark was gone for long periods and was seemingly stressed out after every battle, Amber was both concerned for him, but also was thinking he was a drug dealer, to which Mark revealed his identity to clear the air, and Amber, while surprised was relieved. She didn't know the entire time, but she also knew that being a superhero with a secret identity is a dangerous job, but a well-intended one, and could appreciate that Mark was just trying to help everyone despite the secret and lying.
Of course, as Mark fights harder and harder threats, Amber stresses out, has a mental breakdown, and begrudgingly tells Mark she can't take it anymore, to which Mark understood this, and they both ended the relationship on mutual terms.
They stay good friends however, and while eventually Amber falls off in the story, one of the major defining traits of her and Mark's story together is that despite Mark and Amber being Exs, Mark is always ready to help her regardless. This is especially true when later Amber gets into a new relationship that suddenly becomes dangerous when her new boyfriend is revealed to be a physically abusive monster, to when Mark founds out and hears him beating and berating her, he storms in and beats his ass to a bloody pulp. To which we root for given how sweet Amber is and how nice Mark and Amber's relationship is, even when it doesn't "work out".
Amazon's Amber I wouldn't blame Mark for not coming to her rescue if she got into an abusive relationship later down the line in the show if they actually go that direction. I'd rather go with the ballsy twist of Mark seeing Amber as the toxic bitch she's now been rewritten as and dump her as growth to his character and show men that it's never wrong to walk away from toxic, manipulative, narcissistic and abusive women. But at this rate I'm not sure that's gonna happen.
Now I wouldn’t want Mark to let anyone get abused by their partner. I would like him or Eve to call Amber the fuck out. I would love for Eve to be the one to call it out both to Mark and Amber. Telling Amber that she’s a bitch who doesn’t deserve Mark and then telling Mark to leave Amber.
@@kinghyperheart1571 SPOILERS
You're in luck, Mark will eventually be with Atom Eve as shown in the comics. I believe he will dump Amber in the show due to the toxic relationship, unlike how he did it in the comics, and he will be with Atom Eve.
The main difference is that Lois is well written and Amber isn't. Regardless of whether you agree with her, her reaction is in line wiht her established character. Lois is hot headed and emotional and behaves appropriately when she thinks she's been betrayed or lied to.
Amber, on the other hand, was established to get upset when Mark stood her up or disappeared. If she *had* known, she should have understood that him saving lives was more important than their date. Her finding out weeks ago, as she claimed, with no build up or foreshadowing, seems more like the writers wanting a clever twist to their dynamic without going back and checking if it fit. People call her toxic and narcissistic, but the truth is the writers screwed up.
I'm honestly inclined to believe Amber's lying about having known, and while I understand saying anything to get rid of him, I don't understand how the writers thought either interpretation would be a good twist, or that leaving it up to that level of interpretation was okay.
The writers didn't screw up. What they got is an audience unable to understand why lying to someone until they're sick of you is a bad. And people expect characters to be automatically forgiven for their actions.
@@DDarkestKnight If you think disclosing something as important as a superhero secret identity to someone you have been dating for less than a year is a good idea, you legit have a smooth brain.
Also, you Amber defenders being so obsessed with the "keeping secret's bad no matter what" is just hypocritical, there is no way in the world YOU don't have any secrets yourselves.
It's clear you are just doing damage control for a character that represents your values.
@@DDarkestKnight Oh no, the writers screwed up. By having Amber know Mark's a superhero, before Mark tells her, she's loses all sympathy. As long as Amber was ignorant of his hero status, its makes her reactions to his flaky behavior justifiable. She's hurt by his perceived lack of regard for her and her feelings.
But, by having her know why he's doing this, she comes off as manipulative. She's emotionally manipulating him to feel worse about the situation. And because she waits to say that she's known for sometime, she's been leading him on. Now, you could say that Mark's doing the same, but he's in a no-win situation. He either tries to defuse Amber's anger by coming clean but imperils his friends and family. Or he stays silent and protects that but watches his relationship with deteriorate. And coming clean with a secret of life-altering magnitude to win the trust of person who you've known for months, is not much of choice.
Plus, her reaction to him being forced to breaking the soup kitchen promise makes her look worse off, regardless. She never acknowledges that Mark had good reason for that: he was hospitalized. He was hurt. Doesn't know he's a hero; it's bad look because there's not much he can do about being injured. She's being utterly unreasonable at point. But KNOWING he's a hero and he's been hospitalized because he got his shit kicked in? It makes her look like a total bitch that doesn't seem care that he got hurt.
The writers' screw-up is that Mark stays sympathetic while Amber doesn't. Mark IS lying but he's has every reason too on top of being inexperienced being in a relationship and juggling larger-than-life expectations. He's not malicious and is trying his best, even as he makes mistakes due to his poor handling of the situation. Amber knows this but doesn't care, coming off as being toxic despite the writer's attempts to paint her in the right.
@@TresBS1 Her reaction to Mark *is still* justified because she's reacting to his bad actions, which have been garbage for most of their relationship.
The reason Amber was fed up with Mark is because she has *no idea* why he's doing this! Being a superhero is not an answer all explanation, he has to do some actual explaining. Preferably _before_ the breakup! He should feel bad because he waited until it was too late to say anything! She wasn't manipulating him, she wasn't leading him, she was cutting off a half assed attempt to win her over like he did two days before! Did you want to have this discussion in front of William, who I will remind she didn't know already knew Mark's secret?!
It's never been about protecting friends and family with Mark, those words have never come out his mouth! Mark wasn't in a no win situation, he had two options (explained to him by EVE): if he trusts her, tell her or if he doesn't, let her go. He went with option 3: drag her along until she was finally sick of him! It wasn't about winning her trust (because he failed at that for their entire relationship), it's about trusting her the same way she trusted him.
Amber literally gave him a second chance when he got out of the hospital, what are you talking about? She didn't even know why he was there, everyone just kept telling her he got hit by a truck! The trip to the college was for a new start, to show Amber that he was serious about their relationship. And he fucked up.
They are both sympathetic! They show Mark is inexperienced but he's also *not* trying. He does the same thing over and over and over again! Him not being malicious and their friends telling her not to give up on him is the only reason Amber held on to their relationship for so long. You think she's some all knowing being, she's a CIVILIAN! She doesn't know anything about what goes on with superheroes, whatever she does find out she had to detective her way through with no help from Mark! She gave him all the space, the understanding, the 2nd and 3rd chances because she trusted Mark. Like *this* is not difficult to understand but apparently the audience can barely understand shit now, they have to be spoon fed for the simplest thing!
The most level headed take on this. Yes, there is a war going on in metropolis, and super hero’s secret identities are used because they don’t want their loved ones to be targets of their nemesis's.
At the same time, relationships are BUILT on trust. If there’s no trust, the whole building crumbles down. Lois has every right to be pissed, Clark has every right to be defensive.
Calling her the next Amber though? THAT is a load of bullshit, Lois is infinitely deeper than Amber ever will be.
Well she has a right to be pissed until you consider they've known each other for a month tops
@@masontoy1976 I would also like to point out that Superman is the first Superhero in a lot of DC continuities, and it seems like that's what they're going with here. There's no book written on this, so unlike Invincible, where Superheroes are established and keeping secret identities would be the norm... this isn't the case here.
Also the time they've known each other is irrelevant here as.. They were clearly heading to a serious relationship, fast, and were clicking on a deeper level.
I'm not siding with one side, or the other as the writers are clearly establishing that BOTH have a point here, and they do. They're not raising one over the other. This is just a sucky situation that they will have to learn to work through, and to be honest?
The fact that the writers have the balls to do this is really cool to me. Character conflict that's IN character and due to established character traits? Sign me up.
wait a second... I know this comment.
cuz i wrote it. verbatim.
You don't threaten suicide to someone you trust
You don’t jump off a building to force someone into telling their secret, especially when you made it clear that your focus is to expose that person’s secret to the public.
Another difference between Amber and Lois, is in how they come across in those scenes. In my opinion, and one I have seen elsewhere, Amber comes across as being upset Mark is prioritizing saving people's lives over spending time with her. Lois is the one that gets written like she is hurt by the lack of trust Clark shows her by playing dumb and not sharing his secrets sooner. Like you said in the video, the build-up is better for Lois and the fact Lois and Clark have a back and forth is good development for both of them. Invincible is a show where the Hero gets disrespected by several characters for being an awkward nice guy the typical heroic virtues like trust and kindness. My Adventures With Superman so far seem to have a more believable reaction in that lies hurt, even if for a good/valid reason like Clark has.
There’s also the fact that, as mentioned in the video, Lois is visibly worried and upset that Clark was injured. She wasn’t just mad that he lied; she was mad that he lied while being visibly hurt and not trusting her enough to share his pain. As mentioned, episode 4 has Lois say she has trust issues cause her dad always lied to her, even about her mom’s sickness. Seeing Clark injured and lying about it, it probably brought Lois pain to that time with her dad. Everything Lois does is due to her own trauma and because she doesn’t want anything to happen to Clark, in the same way it happened to her mom.
@@mr.goblin6039yeah Clark looks like he's just had the shit kicked out of him (cause he has) and she tries to give him a chance to tell her himself before she gets mad. It's an understandable reaction she's already worried and upset. So her emotions are already running high when he lies to her again after clearly having been in some serious danger, which given what we know about her makes sense to set her off. I swear some people have negative media literacy if they think it portrays either of them in that scene as completely in the right
Lois isn't mad at Clark for not prioritizing her. She feels betrayed and hurt that despite everything that's happened, he still didn't see her as an equal or as someone who was supposedly worthy of knowing his secret.
I also feel the shows overall treatment of the issue is done a lot better in the adventures of superman. Clark lied yes but the show isn’t saying he’s wrong for feeling the way he felt both sides are valid in their feelings and the show let’s you know yes clark is wrong for not trusting them BUT he isn’t wrong for being afraid of what would happen when they find out he’s practically a alien. But in invincible the show is practically screaming marks in the wrong every one of marks friends tells him he was in the wrong the show itself is telling you mark’s wrong. Mark was told several times a secret identity is important not just for him but the people close to him as well cause once your enemies know who you are your loved ones become a HUGE target. So of course he wouldn’t be in a rush to tell someone he’s only been dating for a few months. It’s a lie yes but it’s a lie to keep the people he cares about safe.
SPOILERS
Also the big difference is later lois and clerk actually talk and reach a understanding of both sides. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it and makes it about her and doesn’t even try to understand marks side and only seems to care when he’s basically beaten to a bloody pulp.
Media literacy is dead because people can't understand that characters are meant to be flawed. Lois isn’t being treated as in the right, she’s just expressing her frustrations. Should she be mad at Clark? Not really, but you can understand why based on her characterization. And still this is an intentional character flaw, she hates being lied to, even if its for her own good.
It’s facts. A character shows one flaw and everyone hates on them right away
It's definitely dead, it's like people can't figure out that Amber being toxic is meant to be perceived that way on purpose, and that character are flawed for the purpose of character building. This creates a paradox, already perfect female characters are too unrelatable but imperfect female characters are bad people and don't deserve redemption. The only acceptable female character seems to be the one who has their own life then drops everything to support the main character (I may be wrong though)
@@natasharules6737 now you lack media literacy, Eve and William side with Amber and she returns with "We both were lied to." Which implies that show AGREES WITH HER. It's not that deep, Invincible show is just dumb and fallen into trope that comic WAS EXPLICITLY MOCKING AND AVOID FOR ACTUAL UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP. Lois was written to be worried about people lying to her due to her dad and her being concerned for why Clark wouldn't say bout damages. AND CLARK ACTUALLY ARGUES BACK. Which shows that both have reasons and next episode is about their concerns, both of their concerns. While Invincble seems to just hate Mark for no reason.
@mikhaelgribkov4117 no dude, the show is not a person, the only person is the viewer. You are supposed to think the main character is experiencing injustice and shows how people within the show can be wrong.
Think about Thanos, his reasons for decimating whole populations is interesting and makes the viewer think that overpopulation is in fact a problem, just because within the MCU Thanos has supporters doesn't mean Marvel studios wants us to agree with genocide. You as a watcher can simply make your own opinion
@@natasharules6737 exactly.
Amber’s anger is retroactively not understandable once you find out that she knew who he was for weeks. Her getting upset that he left at the college makes no sense because she knew at that point, and SAW Invincible save William. Then she goes off to cheat. It was understandable anger before we found out she already knew, but with that knowledge, it makes no sense. She knows why he’s late all the time, and it’s a VERY good reason. If the roles were reversed, we’d expect Mark to understand, be patient and wait for her to feel comfortable to share her secret, and support her. Not blow up and emotionally manipulate
I think it not the fact he’s lying to her but he’s obviously lying. He clearly doesn’t value her as much as he thinks he does which shows that he’s still a kid going through a very huge change in he’s life being a super hero.
The writing could have been better but I don’t see people really talking about how bad they were for each other at the time and not just someone being toxic
@@mikeboi64-49it seems she only showed interest in him cause she saw him and Eve when I saw that I knew this wasn’t gonna work.
What bothered me was that I felt the show was trying gaslight me. Amber did not know at the college that he was Invincible, but then the show acts like she did and it makes no sense
@@MakiPcr her blow out was comic accurate ...... everything else was shows bs. Why we can't do anime and just adapt the damn fucking book?
People complain about MJ in the Raimi trilogy, but at least she wasn’t mad when she found out Peter is Spider-Man. She just fell even more in love with him. No drama about him lying to her and keeping secrets. But this video did make me feel better about Lois
That’s just 1 thing, Sure MJ never got mad but there are a whole bunch of things wrong with her, sure it could be considered a flaw but it’s not really resolved. Rami MJ is honestly awful, In the comics she was the same way but it was a flaw so it ended up changing later, that didn’t happen with the rami trilogy.
I think MJ's real problems in the Rami trilogy stem from the fact that she's a terrible person and the writers never address it
@@voidedabyss5614in the old comics back when peter and Mj are married she's supportive and also shot Green Goblin and beat the shit out of chameleon and well written unlike modern comic mj
MJ was literally kissing every man inthe movie .
Big difference summed up in one scene each.
Lois knows Clark is Superman, and is instantly concerned if he is ok first and foremost when he comes back.
Amber knows Mark is Invincible, yet shits on him for leaving despite witnessing the fight.
Exactly
Does Amber really consder herself more important than the city or whatever was n thee line here?
Even just one live saved or one harm prevented is more important than her.
@@jasperzanovich2504 "I! WORK! AT A SOUP KITCHEN, MARK! A SOUP KITCHEN!!!" - someone who I would never want anything to do with, ever again.
@@donutbevil9669 Yeah, sounds like she only works there because of how people perceive her. You are not supposed to do charity for the praise, that's not charity.
Episode 6 has a resolution to their fight and it’s a helps it a lot as well. Lois kind of implied she might have felt Clark was just lying about his feelings or using her as a cover, most likely because of her poor relationship with her father who must have done similar since we know he lied a lot. And Clark admits how afraid he is about who he is and how people will react. Jimmys confession to that really helps the narrative as showing they both care about Clark, and it doesn’t matter what he is. With their fight, both Clark and Lois had messed up and had a reasoning behind it all, and we see them admit to those faults and grow
I really like how, in the latest episode, Jimmy Olsen just cuts Clark right off by telling him he's known about him being Superman since, like, their freshman year in college because he ripped the door handle off and then tried to play it off as the screws being loose. He let Clark keep his secret because it felt personal to him, and he felt like Clark would eventually tell him when the time was right - on Clark's terms. It's kind of bizarre how the most disliked character on the show shows the most mature attitude about the situation.
That said, I don't think Lois was in the wrong at all, just in the wrong headspace. She clearly had a thing for lying due to her father, and every time Clark tried to open up about his being Superman, she would conflate how Superman hiding something is just the worst, causing Clark to back off very quickly as he clearly doesn't want to be on Lois' bad side as he really likes her at this point. Both Clark and Lois are wrong in the situation, causing undue amounts of stress for both - Lois, because she's such a determined investigator, and Clark who just doesn't want to have Lois dig too deeply and discover he's been hiding this big secret from her; the BIGGEST of secrets from her, and due to his feelings just can't cope with the situation multiple times whenever he tries to tell her.
So you go Jimmy Olsen. You didn't let those stupid screws fool you for a second.
EDIT: Oh shit, I just figured out who that Army General is at 7:35. I feel so freaking stupid. /facepalm I feel like Jimmy Olsen is smarter than me and that's just downright depressing.
how is clark in the wrong for keeping his secret a secret, especially from a person who threatened to expose superman right to his face?
@@judoka. the thought process is by keeping this secret it is causing harm to their relationship.
@@mwperk02 it’s only causing harm to lois because lois hasn’t dealt with her personal issues about people keeping secrets from her.
she needs to realize that she’s not obligated to know everyone’s secrets just because of what happened to her in the past. that’s a problem that SHE needs to fix, not clark, and clark is not in the wrong for keeping HIS secret a secret, especially if that secret is protecting the people he cares about.
Even without Lois’s issues with her dad, the two of them were flirting, and fast approaching a relationship, and there’s some things that could be taken quite badly (even though we know Clark is great).
I just rewatched episode two, and Clark saying he knew Lois would find Superman again, and then buttering her up with compliments… That can EASILY be suspected in retrospect as him trying to take advantage of the situation to seduce Lois.
Again, Clark is great. We know he was sincere. Lois could start doubting that.
There’s a lot to unpack when you step back, set aside our perspective as the audience, and isolate Lois’s perspective of all past interactions with Clark.
The jumping off the building bit IS absurd, but at that point, she was 100% convinced he was Superman. In her mind, the only danger was him letting her die, which I doubt she thought was even a possibility.
she was not 100% sure he was superman she was 99% sure he was superman I know it's a thing for Lois to jump off buildings like miles morales but goddamn bruh imagine if she was wrong
@@andrei283 At THAT point I'm saying 100% sure in her mind. Any doubt she had was gone after the events in the episode (as early as him tossing the weight one-handed and damaging the lockers).
I say this because I don't think even Lois would've made that jump if she wasn't that confident.
(The "bruh imagine if she was wrong" point is perfectly valid. I speak only of what I believe she believed in that moment.)
@@danshive4017 in all honesty I believe she did think that she was 100% sure he was superman at that point due to everything lining up
I swear people are just crying because it's an end of episode stinger. Next episode, they're gonna team up and re-bond over their friendship with Jimmy. People just aren't used to weekly releases anymore
Facts
Good news, you're right and they did.
@@KarateGirl999 Goddamn I'm so right all the time
I never understood why Mark got so much shit for his relationship with Amber, but almost none for almost letting William and his boyfriend die. William genuinly has good reason to be upset!
Because he constantly lied to her, made a promise he broke immediately, and made his partner feel stupid and unimportant in a relationship, and continued a relationship with some he could not trust with a secret actively killing the relationship.
@@mangamandrewjust like amber
@@vincentlucario5450 Amber did not lie. She did not make Mark feel stupid and unimportant. She never broke a prime and did not try to continue a failing relationship
The problem with Amber is that the pay-off does not match the set up.
Amber gets mad about Mark not being there for her, which is reasonable. Then Eve talks to her about how Mark is actually a great guy and deserves a second shot. He gets the second shot, disappears again and this time pretty much leaving her for dead. Everything to that point is completely fine.
But once Marks reveals his identity, and she has all the context, such as Mark being absent because he was saving the world, Eve's words being true, Mark has a lot of weight to carry, and he never left her for dead, he was straight up fighting the threat to save everyone; her reaction changes. The writers wanted Amber to look smart, witty, the gal who figured it all out days ago, so they put this "I knew it" line that flips the context. Thing is, when you flip the context it makes no sense for her to be mad that he was absent.
Lois is consistent. She was mad that Clark was lying and kept being mad about that. It's not a problem that her reason for being mad is not rightful, Clark is in the right, he had to keep it a secret and he can't exactly trust every flirt with his secret identity. Same applies to Mark. If Amber was still mad and said "Ok, sure, that explains it but I never signed up to date a super hero" that would have been fine. Instead she comes out as bitch because she knew WHY he was doing all of that and was still giving him a hard time for things she claims she doesn't care about.
There is also a secondary problem, but the way they wrote her lines and demeanor, she just comes off as a bitch every time. I don't know if the writers were trying to overcompensate the fact she was one of the few non-super characters in the show, but she can't say more than two words without coming off as having an ego bigger than the Earth itself. Even at the very end, when Eve, the girl who guided him through being a super hero and the last person to see him before he had to fight his own father, and Mark's life long best friend, come see Mark, not only she is magically already there (which, sure, Mark's ex who didn't care if he was getting killed or not because he was 5min late now is so worried she somehow got to him before everyone else), but she is completely surprised that they both knowing and let's out the bitchiest "They know?". Amber just has this aura that makes you wish she was ran over by a truck.
I absolutely despised the way Twitter tried to defend Amber with, "if you dont like her its because you're racist."
Amber was toxic as hell, treated Mark like shit when she already knew, and then he does finally tell her ahe just blows him off. Really hope she doesn't return in Season 2
She will return….
Spoilers
She won’t remain his girl for long tho.
I honestly didn’t mind Amber being angry with Mark at first because she was honestly making valid points. However when it was revealed she KNEW he was a super hero the entire time I audibly called her a cunt lol. If they didn’t try to make her so smart and so perceptive and just let her be surprised by the fact he’s a super hero it would have been a predictable end but it would have made the most sense.
@@PopeDuwangyou don’t know that
@@dforman4770
Prob is that marysues know everything already. Shes textbook marysue down to everyone loving her and agreeing with her.
@@dforman4770 Yeah, if they had cut that part out it would make more sense for Amber to be mad. That one scene ruins her character.
I think why it works better for Lois is also because it happened so early in the shows run meaning we don’t have to put up with the liar revealed plot line for very long and thous not falling into such a common and misused trope so we can see more of their relationship to evolve throughout the show more smoothly
Funny enough none of the other DC animated Superman show pulled a liar reveal trope. STAS it was when Lois was in the hospital and its was just her saying clark, and supes saying yes. In the modern DC it was right before he was killed by doomsday. No liar reveal drama
@@triggerfairy4070 Maybe, but this is a very different universe from those ones. Not to mention that due to Invincible people were getting worried from what I was seeing. Not to mention that Lois figured it out all her own, and since she found out much earlier than those to which to me just allows for a more natural relationship for them
@@hyperdreamer9483 normally id say S1 supes secret identity is revealed to lois is too early. However since this show is more of an ensemble and not just supes doing supes stuff I dont mind the early reveal.
@@triggerfairy4070 Yeah it’s more a team effort here Lois and Jimmy by his side to help him as a team, especially since this version of Superman not as indestructible as others
in a way, Clarke having a very legitimate reason to keep his secret from Lois, specifically, makes the fact that he actually *did* keep the secret more legitimately hurtful to her. For Amber, it's just the very standard "this is a big secret and I can't tell someone unless I can trust them to keep it for the rest of their life" type deal that secret identities always have. For Clarke, he's basically telling Lois to her face "I think you are the type of person who might immediately sacrifice our relationship and my well-being to selfishly further your own career."
Given what he knows of her and what she's said to him, that's perfectly sensible reasoning. But finding out that someone who you consider to be a friend, maybe more than that, thinks so poorly of your character is the kind of shock that's very understandable for someone to get emotional over. With time and considering others' perspectives, someone can come to understand how their own actions caused people to perceive them so harshly. But in the moment it will feel more like a betrayal (on top of the betrayal of him lying to her face previously), and cutting off a relationship in that moment makes prefect sense for a character to do.
Simply put, Lois’s reaction is justified because she’s concerned about Clark and has valid reason to hate being deceived. Amber’s reaction is unwarranted because even though she knows why mark is lying to her she is only concerned about herself without justification and in turn LYING TO MARK.
And would’ve cheated on mark if the guy was single at that party I think they’re going to break up eventually and he’s going to date Atom eve or something
Im not sure you can justify JUMPING OUT OF A BUILDING for someone not wanting to tell you a secret, i could understand she can get angry but her behaviour there was very manipulative.
@@Bike-chan People aren't say Lois is 100% in the right. They're saying they can understand her side, and that's the beauty. It's one sided like it is in Invincible
@@bwareist but he just said her reaction was justified, jumping out of a building is just an excesive reaction to do in order to force someone to tell you a secret.
@@Bike-chan first off the video already explained that it was a reference that lois always jumps off buildings,second that is a flaw of her character, the word justified is just within you, the word common sense is subjective and can only be applied to a group of people, lois threw herself because she trusted clark, its clear she had no ill intentions, in fact she was concened about his safety after seeing his injuries and want t confirm her doubts, in no way does it make it the best choice she could make but i find it beautiful that she does trust him and has her argument to why she would jump off
The difference is that Lois is actually a likeable character for the audience because for us she's fun and chaotic and selfish and ambitious, like a better written Rachel Berry- there's just no real reason why Clark likes her. Her relationship with him thus far is exactly like the one she has with her boss- she lies to them, manipulates them and ignores what they want in favor of her own ego and agenda, never apologizes unless she gets caught or gets what she wants, they forgive her instantly and she does it all over again with zero consequences. In that way she's more of a main character than Clark- which makes sense, given the show is called My adventures with superman indicating that the main character is not Clark. We always know what Lois is doing and almost always view incidents from her perspective, and she typically gets the plot moving. She's the main character, so her flaws are way more forgivable because we know she'll grow out of it much like Clark will grow into being Superman and Mark will grow into being Invincible.
Where as Amber is very clearly not meant to be with Mark- the show has clearly set it up to be him and Eve, which is consistent with the comics, which is strike one for people not liking Amber because she's already in the way so we're waiting for the moment when she's gone and true love can begin. She constantly holds it against him that he is a superhero, and up until the end it's because she doesn't know (we'll touch on that later tho) but we as the audience do so we're watching like "girl he's saving the world! Get over yourself!" which is strike two for her. And then, and then, there's the infamous break up scene where we find out that she's known "for a while" that he's a hero, which is the third strike and wipes out any chance at anyone liking her, because it MAKES. NO. SENSE!!! Not because it's unrealistic that she'd figure it out because it does make sense since he's not good at hiding it. But because none of her actions make sense if she knows Mark is Invincible. She doesn't say when, but I'm guessing she figured it out around the time he got put in the ICU by Beast. She definitely knew at the college visit. Where she broke up with him because he abandoned them despite the fact that she knows he saved their lives!! It's the work of an insane person!! Is she in cahoots with Omniman to turn Mark into a true Viltrumite by crushing his heart?
But they weren't done. Nope she gets a strike four, because she goes to him when his dad tried to beat the Viltrumite out of him and kisses him and takes him back. What? Literally why. I can understand her coming because she cares and she still loves him, but why would she want him back? Literally nothing she had a problem with has changed. In fact, all of the problems she had before are about to become way worse. And why does he want her back? He just sort of accepts it, so maybe it was the pain meds.
Currently, I read Amber as a true narcissist. Some people are genuinely just like that. All of her actions point towards her being narcissistic and being concerned with everyone seeing her as a badass and as a caring soul. Which is why I think she goes to the soup kitchen and why she insists that Mark be there, too. In a way, her forcing Mark to go to the soup kitchen signals that she wants to be seen dating someone who seems to care about helping people; the way he handles his duties as a superhero makes him look like a coward to anyone not aware of his dual identity. Her criticizing him lying to her about identity makes her feel both untrusted and damages her views of herself. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but do we ever see her enjoying her time in the kitchen? I think I only remember her wondering where Mark is, rather than being more concerned with the people she's supposed to be helping (typically, that's how volunteers usually behave; their own life and self image is low on their priority list, especially on duty, and they usually have relationships with those they're helping).
If the writers stay consistent with her hypocrisy and narcissism, I can imagine a very satisfying arc for Mark where he has to realize he was being abused to an extent and to move past his misplaced feelings for Amber. If the writers keep pushing this romance and have Amber "forgive" Mark (though he never did anything to forgive, especially according to her own self admitted knowledge), then it'll leave a very sour taste in my mouth.
Sometimes it's just a physical attraction that grows into something more wholesome.
@@charles3840if Amber were a real character in the show you’d be right- but as a seasoned writer I know a “1 dimensional bad bf/gf obstacle to real love story” character when I see one and that’s what she is. She’s a step above Eve’s irrelevant ex and only because she sticks around longer.
You can tell because as long as she’s here we never really know anything about her- just like Mark’s best friend. Anything we find out is brought up and never mentioned again, she experiences no character growth and has no true relevance to the plot outside of her relationship with Mark, which as we’ve seen it is only her being mad at him or being stood up.
Take it back to when we first meet Amber in a scene that seems to be establishing her as a character. Except none of it matters or comes up again- we never hear about the bully, the kid she protected, why, what the outcome of the entire thing is- because it was actually a scene to show why Mark likes her. In fact the next time we hear from the bully it’s in a standoff with Mark, cause even he knows Amber is too one dimensional to get him any screen time. All of of her scenes are like that- they only serve the purpose of furthering Mark’s storyline. We find out that she volunteers at a soup kitchen just to show how close Mark was when he was getting beat to a pulp but none of it matters cause it’s never brought up again, so the only point was to show Mark failing. Meeting her mom was so important that it never comes up again and they never meet and we don’t even see the woman.
I always find it lazy writing when writers use characters like this, because you can have a normal relationship that just doesn’t work out. It doesn’t have to be that the person is a massive douche bag or one a dimensional snooze fest.
It's weird to me how Amber figured Mark out because in the comics it made way more sense and was a sweet moment.
@@thesourpatchkidd579also let's not forger important part: COMIC ACTUALLY SUBVERTED THAT TROPE. The comic avoided that bs and had really good arc of why their relationship can't work out while having Debbie as mirror to what it does to the mind. And it was unique and compelling that way, with no villains. But I guess show is too CW drama brained to get that nuance.
Folks, this deep in "My Adventures with Superman" IMHO it's clear that Lois cares deeply for Clark. So in analyzing her relationship with him, maybe we should bear in mind that prior to their quarrel Clark had been in a big fight with Slade and what looks to be mechs from Project Cadmus, which looks to be helmed by DC's favorite(?) ruthless covert ops boss Amanda Waller and Lois' own father Gen. Sam Lane.
And in that fight, Slade NEARLY TOOK CLARK'S HEAD OFF with his swords.
At this point, Clark is still climbing a steep learning curve with regard to his powers, and yet is already having to face people who can outright KILL him despite said powers. Is it any wonder Lois is distraught over Clark's not opening up to her, when every time he goes into action as Superman could be his last?
@bananarama1425 And that's the difference. It's shown here, that first and foremost, her concern is Clark's well-being.
And if you think about it, the Robot Fight in episode..2? Now that she KNOWS that was him, she'd also be dealing with the fact that he could have DIED there if it weren't for her intervention.
Lois: "So the guy I like was AWOL because he was saving literally thousands of lives. Understandable."
Amber: "How dare he miss date night to save thousands of lives and not trust me enough to say anything while getting his ass kicked physically and mentally! I'll give him mixed signals and a cold shoulder, that seems fair."
I hate how everyone compares Lois to Amber
Amber is just an awful person who the writers clearly try to make out like a justified and perfect human being. Even though she is just the worst girlfriend to Mark, the worst friend to anybody and….The Worst!
Lois on the other hand has some traits similar, the writers don’t try to justify them as right. Because they know Lois is in the wrong and we know she’s in the wrong but compared to Amber we are given time to like Lois and understand her. The writers of Invincible just expect us to like Amber….Because Amber!
I think the writers were making her out to be good cuz in the original comic she was actually better, and they ruined her in the animation but kept the fact she was “in the right”.
@@ma.2089 You mean Amber or Lois
Because the writers are writing Lois as flawed
You are referring to Amber right?
@ma.2089 Yeah they fucked up her character big time.
Not because she black.
@@High-Pie_Chop Yeah, because Amber is just the worst
Like if I had met her personally, then she’d be fifth place. I have a lot of people I despise worse than her
@confusingzark Again, but they know this. The writers of Invincible try to make Amber out like she was in the right 24/7 whereas Lois is clearly in the wrong in a lot of her scenes and the writers know this
I mean, she is a flawed character that is written as flawed whereas Amber is just an awful human being written as flawless
Amber not only got a race swap...she got a personality swap. Basically it's an entirely new character
Yep, my thoughts exactly and I hate it. The Comic Version of Amber was not only white, she was actually a pretty sweet person.
@@kinghyperheart1571 That reads weird as hell lol. I'm probably not getting you but would her staying white would be an improvement?
Well normally I don't want race to have to be important, but there's a trend going on that has to be addressed. What I'm saying is:
1. Don't change the race of a pre-established character, it isn't necessary at all, race shouldn't be important in a character. The writing needs to be good first, then should just happen to be that color from the conception. They changed Amber's race unnecessarily, when the writing was fine, and she just happened to be white. If the writing is fine, and being white is okay, then why change it?
and 2, if you're going to change BOTH the writing AND the race of a character, DON'T make the character horrible AND re-enforces negative stereotypes about black people. At the very least have them be bad as a character be they white or black from the start. Don't take a character who is good and just so happens to be white and change them into a terrible person who just so happens to be black.
In short, my point is if you're going to make a character who is insufferable and just so happens to be black, don't take a pre-established well written character with a different race and transform that character into something they're not. make your own horrible character that doesn't drag down the already established character and tarnish their legacy. The race change is just unnecessary design-wise and is salt in the wounds.
Not all secrets are the same and the secret identity of a superhero is big one. Its not something you can just tell to anyone given the risk; especially if the superhero in question has a family he or she needs to protect.
You never know who is who. For years everyone thought that omni-man was a hero but look at how things ended. A huge amount of trust needs to be earned even among friends and even family.
Lois is angry because she was lied to, repeatedly, by Clark despite both of them knowing he's lying. She's got issues with being lied to because of her father.
Amber is supposed to be written in the same way, but the fact that she knew he was Invincible, and STILL acted the way she did makes her sound like she's complaining because he wasn't her priority.
The key difference here is that while Invincible portrays Amber as absolutely in the right and basically takes her side (having all the characters chastise Mark for being stupid without even one moment of reflection for how Amber could be in the wrong), My Adventures with Superman portrays Lois’s obsessiveness, anger, and distrust as character flaws. She hangs up the phone when her dad tried to call her, indicating she has some deep and complex familial issues, her actions repeatedly land her in trouble, and most important of all, the pitfalls of her character are pointed out and she has to apologize at times.
Of course, it’s quite possible that the writers will drop the ball and end up making Lois insufferable, but thus far, it seems like Lois is going on an arc in which she needs to overcome her obsessive need to uncover all secrets and inability to trust.
As I was watching this I realized something too. When Mark said he went to get help for an alibi Amber immediately got angry saying that he abandoned her. When Clark did the same thing, Lois was relieved that he was ok and happy that he had done so. Also Amber KNEW that Mark was the hero who stepped in.
Lois didn't know Clark was Superman and was just relieved that everyone was ok.
And even if she didn't somehow already know he was a superhero, just a teenage guy, what did she expect a normal, young person to do against superhuman zombie cyborgs that can easily tear through steel and concrete.
I feel like people were too busy salivating in the mouth to listen to anything said during the stairwell scene, that scene put everything into context but everyone ive seen talk bad about Lois doesnt even recall her mentioning her dad like wtf
Also lois' reply that clark shouldve known shed never expose him is valid. She thought superman was some random guy keeping secrets and as a reporter its her job to learn to truth. But he shouldve know she'd not go behind his back if she knew it was him. It shows he doesnt trust her enough and thinks of her in a more negative way than she is
I also think it demonstrates Clark’s general fear about his powers. He didn’t exactly embrace them in this show, so he’s more on edge about anything concerning Superman in general.
Clark just met this girl, the attraction they share is just surface level. Why would he think that he could trust this woman when his first impression of Lois is that she is lying/manipulative coworkers that’s will to do anything in order to get what she wants, even if it’s immoral.
Trusting Lois is stupid, and her emotional baggage is not enough of a reason to tell her anything. This crazy woman was getting mad a Clark’s Superman persona for not telling her his secrets, when her motivation was to trick him into spilling his guts and tell the world his secrets even though she new it would hurt him. For Clark to even consider telling Lois anything, when at best they have only been “friends” for a few days, tells me he’s too horny to think properly.
It’s like watch man befriend a thief and think that because their friends the thief would never steal from him.
@@Salazar.945 dude, they're dating and shared intimate moments, they're far beyond friends with surface level attraction.
And it's her JOB to uncover secrets. That's like saying the x files people shouldn't investigate aliens cause it can expose and endanger them. Obviously if she learned it was Clark, and had a talk, she'd learn he was being honest and didn't have any secrets to expose, she wouldn't say his name or his family. If he was just some random guy and she found out he was an alien sent to defend earth from the mole people, that's a secret to expose, not a personal one that'd harm him
@@Salazar.945 she’s his coworker and they’ve been in dangerous situations before and had each other’s back. Not only that, they’ve been with each other for like a month at least, not a few days.
Maybe a month is too short for you, but it’s their relationship and not yours lol. Being in dangerous situations also bring ppl closer to one another
@@ma.2089 sorry, but in the real world your coworkers aren’t your friends. This is why everyone and their mom tells people that when your entering in the work force it a general rule to not trust anybody with personal information.
Clark’s secret identity is not a superficial thing. knowledge about what he can do can have a huge affects on his life. It’s equivalent to his a credit information, social security number, his exact home address of his parents and his own.
Telling a coworker after a month hanging out with them, is not, nor will it ever be justification for telling them important information like this. Especially when the world finding out that he’s Superman can negatively effect his parents, and Clark specifically came to Metropolis so his choice to use his powers to help people wouldn’t effect them. No amount of dangerous situations together can fix this, especially when Clark never wanted to be involved with said danger in the beginning, and later expresses his displeasure of Lois seeking out said danger.
Anyone who tell their coworkers stuff like this, does so at their own peril. And that’s fine, people can take whatever risks they want. But don’t argue that those unnecessary risks are smart.
Clark should have just used his super speed to change, save Lois, change back, deny all accusation, be made at Lois for risking her life just to make a point, then leave. But hey, that not the story the writers wanted to tell.
I like that Lois, in Episode 6, realising Jimmy knew was upset why he didn't tell her, and Jimmy confronts her saying how it's not his secret to tell.
Jimmy is a Real One
Wait didn't he get mad he thought Clark told Lois first after she asked him that?
@@compareandcontrast9833i mean he has been Clarks friend since college and the first person he tells the secret is his crush id be miffed too
@@danielasarmiento3101 Yeah and that is understandable but I'm talking about the order of the scene. Jimmy says it'd a sensitive subject then she asks why.
@@compareandcontrast9833
He got mad that he told her before him, but also got mad that Lois said "you knew?! Why didn't you told me?" retaliating with how it's not his Secret to tell.
This action is showing how he respects someone's (Clark in this case) boundaries while also backing up on how important it is to Clark. A Privacy Lois was trying to invade earlier in the episode, which indirectly showed Lois how wrong she was for her behaviour (which is why they all got along towards the end).
@@baligong3592 The only thing he said after she asked after she asked was"You told her before me your best friend" and then it cut to Clark. He did not say anything to Lois about how to act when you learn your friend can punt a robot to the moon.
Great video bro! My jaw dropped during the rooftop scene. Like Lois literally tells Clark not to like to her anymore and then he literally lies TWICE in quick succession. Obviously she shouldn’t have jumped off the roof but clearly putting herself in danger was the only way that Clark would have told her what was really going on. Which is why I do disagree a little bit with your statement towards the end of the video that everything needs to make logical sense in a story. Characters are reflections of us as humans, and sometimes we do stupid things in the moment without thinking. I think the biggest issue with amber is NONE of her actions make sense even when looked at through the lens of something emotional done in the moment.
I think it is very odd that people are watching the rooftop scene and taking one side over the other. Like both Clark and Lois have completely valid reasons to be feeling the emotions that they are feeling. Clark and Lois feel like two people having a conversation, the stuff in invincible is contrived and is drama for the sake of drama. It makes you wonder what these twitter peoples REAL LIFE relationships are like 💀
Great video, you deserve more views!
I mean, i can understand louis getting angry at him but you just don't do something that dangerous to force someone into telling you a secret.
Honestly to me the reason it works with Lois and no Amber can be summarized simply:
With Lois, we actually *see* her figure it out, and like you explained, the progression of her feelings and reaction is logical. Unlike Amber who figures it all out *offscreen* and her reactions make less sense because it doesn't match
But her reaction isn’t logical, her feelings are, sure. But the reaction of “I’m gonna force him to tell me by jumping off this building” is batshit insane when she could have just left it alone… or literally done anything else
@@lwandilengubane9638but she did everything else and when confronted about scars and how it happened Clark still tried to downplay it, which is honestly make Lois outburst pretty justified in my book.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 Not really. It's pretty much none of her business unless Clark tells her himself.
@@gameguy1337I mean, if you found out that someone might’ve been lying about your friendship for whatever reason, then you might be a little hurt
@@vincentlucario5450 depends on the context. If someone didn't like me and was putting up with me then sure. If someone was actually Superman irl and didn't tell me for my own safety I would be more amazed than anything honestly.
Lois is the perfect example that fans just want a good written character and not random race swaps
This is show is flat out amazing. One of the best things that DC has put out in a long time.
I think an interesting corollary to the buildup of the Lois/Clark confrontation is that it really feels like the Amber/Mark buildup got left on the cutting room floor. People are like "oh Amber's toxic" and whatnot, but it's more like her arc doesn't add up.
Those episodes of Invincible gave me whiplash feeling like I had somehow missed an episode or two despite binging the whole thing at once. Everything with Amber would have worked better had they saved that story thread to cook for season 2, and actually spent more time building up to Amber having a reaction of that magnitude. As it stands it's an undercooked mess that leaves a character the writers clearly want us to sympathize with coming across as an absolute asshole.
Coming back to this after the latest episode with the two's reconciliation, I think something important to consider is how Lois starts to soften up to Clark after he actually gets a chance to explain _his_ side of the story, assuaging her worries that _everything_ between them was a lie, and hearing his main reasons for keeping his dual identity a secret from them out of a desire to not be seen as different. She and Jimmy are pretty clearly understanding of that and reassure him that him being who he is doesn't change anything. They meet the problem on _his_ level and don't cast him down for feeling that way. I've seen a couple accusations that the episodes are trying to pitch Clark as being in the wrong, but frankly I really don't see it. And even if Lois doesn't say word for word out loud "I'm sorry for going so hard on you", I think how her behavior shifts and how she starts treating Clark after starting to hear him out speaks a good deal to her willing to let go of whatever negative feelings she had towards him for it all.
And really, if people wanna see the Lois building jump get formally addressed even beyond her reconciliation with Clark, what the show could do is lump it in with a general addressing of her habit of doing reckless stuff in pursuit of her goals. Lois's determination to get the truth at any cost, even potentially her life, is simultaneously one of her biggest strengths and one of her biggest self-hinderences, so I think there's still plenty of room for her to get development and growth on that general character aspect.
The funny thing is that Amber isn't written by "some writers", but by the creator of the original comics. He's majorly involved in adapting the show, including changing things he thought could be done better.
New Amber is not a hack's idea to modernize the character, but the original creator's way to fix the original...
I've read the second half of the comics, so I didn't get to know original Amber. From afar she seems kinda basic and flat. It's good she's supporting him, especially after what happened with Omniman, but she was the girlfriend Mark stood up to until he revealed her his secret.
As for the actual matter, a lot of people tend to blow out at her, but her side is understandable. Like Lois, she's not mad that Mark is actually a superhero. If that were the case, then knowing it beforehand would solve the issue. It's the fact he lied to her for so long, which implies both mistrust on Mark's behalf, and that Mark thought he could lie to her for so long ("I'm not stupid"). That one is more prideful, but it stands firm.
Here's the difference between the two cases: MAW Superman works under the classic assumption of secret identities - don't tell anyone. It's right to keep your heroic identity a secet from your dearests, because it's dangerous. It also create tension, which is good for storytelling. Sure, the show solidify that reality by enhancing the danger in Metropolis, but it doesn't have to. Invincible works under the modern assumption on secret identity - sharing it with your close circle is both helpful and safer than it was. Keeping it a secret will sour your relationship, as it does in the show. It's more realistic, which is what people expect and love from this show. So it's a bit weird that now people complain...
One last difference - Clark "told" Lois only when he had no choice. He was willing to keep living with the secret until "the right time", whenever that would be. Mark told Amber when he realised that this is a way to save his relationship. If you think about it, Mark is being two faced here - if wantd to tell her, he should have done so much sooner, and if he didn't want to, he should have hide it and bear the consequences. Let me say this differently: Clark revealed his secret to save Lois life. Mark revealed his identity as a get out of a ruined relationship card. That's why both his friends grill him for it. That's what "stringing her along" means.
Not to mention, Invincible is focused on Mark, so we don't get complete access to Amber's thoughts, nor should we. MAW Superman seems to focus on Lois, as the show assumes we know Superman well enough after 90 years...
I don't care if it's creator or some intern, new Amber is awful and lacks actual compelling narrative weight of the original, as og relationship with Amber was breaking her apart like Debbie with Nolan, and them breaking up was for the better for everyone involved. It was unique, compelling and mocked the tropes that comic writers over use for sake of drama.
OG comic had real sense of natural human growth with some parody snark while show is turned into shitshow comic was pissing on and avoiding to be.
Yes. Thank you for pointing out that Lois has no good answer when Clark reveals his reason for keeping his secret. The only thing she can do is fall back on her line of "Whatever we were, whatever we were going to be, not going to happen anymore."
You can even take this line to mean that she's hurt and therefore is trying to make Clark hurt too. After all, people do stupid things when they're mad.
You can write a character being irrationally angry, but the reason they're angry HAS TO make sense. The moment Amber revealed she already knew Mark's secret, her entire reason vanished.
this show has been great so far. great take on Superman and very well written
I appreciate this video... When this episode dropped, it kinda reignited the dumpster fire over Amber as well, as people were making comparisons, and it became very apparent that people never took time to think critically about *why* the scene with Amber felt so bad. People were too busy being butt hurt over her being different from the comic version. It seemed they never thought clearly about *what* in the writing wasn't working and why, content to just say "Amber is toxic."
It had me hella confused when people started making the comparisons between Lois and Amber like this... because unlike in Invincible, we have clear and explicit knowledge of what Lois is thinking and feeling... Like... it's stated clearly BEFORE the revelation scene, *with* extension. In the scene with Amber, we had nothing explicit from Amber beyond clearly being unhappy with Mark's disappearing acts and lack of communication. It's enough to infer that being upset about being "lied to" was about more than just the lies... but we have *no* indication of what her *actual* problem with the lies are stemming from. Even when *not* just assuming the worst, calling her "toxic" and moving on, what little we can infer doesn't help much. Is it just that she doesn't like being lied to, in general? Is it some immature teenager thing? Perhaps, after finding out Mark is a superhero, she'd assumed that he was actually more put together than he was presenting himself as Mark, and the reason his lies were so bad was because he thought she was stupid or something.... We don't know! The *only* vague indication to that last idea was her reasoning of "I guess I wasn't the only one being lied to" that she gave when she forgave him at the end. Oh and the narrative parallel being drawn between their fight and the falling out between Debbie and Nolan...
Being left to our own devices to understand what's going on in her head, when she was already primed to be hated because of the changes made to her from her comic counterpart, was a recipe for disaster. The writing for Lois in these scenes runs *laps* around that train wreck.
God i fucking hate those type of people being overly obssesed over Louis sexynes. Because this is the type of shit that happen when someone only sees a character by their looks. Looking at you fighting game community!
@@naolidecomisso4108 Like... Creepily obsessed? Or just that usual obsession with sexiness in people and characters that finds its way into everything?
@@Mai57 i think that It would be the usual one, thought a little bit more exagerated
Like they aren't creepy with such thing, they are Just really annoying because they dont really seen to say any other charter trait of her other than her appearence, also those people for some reason think loies is a tomboy, like bruh she Just has a short hair and thats It.
@@naolidecomisso4108 lol "tomboy" seriously? Is it because she wears pants instead of a pencil skirt? This isn't the first iteration to do that, though... It *can't* be because she's also physically active and can throw a punch, since this isn't the first iteration of Lois to do that, either... This isn't even the first version to have shorter hair! Though this is possibly the shortest it's ever been... Did the hair just push the aesthetic too far for some of them, or something?
The biggest difference though is that Amber actually already KNEW Mark was Invincible WHILE they were at the college. She didn't find out at that point like Lois did. She KNEW he was Invincible; KNEW he was risking his life repeatedly; KNEW he was getting EFFED UP and almost dying on multiple occasions ans STILL calls him a bad boyfriend and treats him like a trash human.
So unless Lois treats Clark like garbage and STILL knows he Superman, there IS NO comparison.
Well-done video essay: not only succint but also with your style. You have no idea how nice it is to mention/credit the music playing at different parts.
I appreciate it! It was always annoying to me when I heard cool music in videos but it wasn’t credited anywhere
I could see this comparison happening in the distance, at it could not be a worse one. The main difference being there's no one in the show taking Lois' side in the conflict. Meanwhile, you had all of Mark's friends taking Amber's side, gaslighting him into thinking he's in the wrong when theres valid reason on his side. I dont see Invincible season 2 getting better if they dont amend that writing flaw. And I only see Superman getting better with their writing
i am from the future, it took only one episode
Well, the newest episode does a good job of repairing their relationship with each other from what I can tell.😊
I was originally in the “Louis is the new Amber” camp, but the way you broke it down convinced me otherwise
Amber is absolutely worse. There's no comparison really. Lois tried to give Clark chances to admit his secrets.
And when unlike Amber she atleast gives him a chance to explain his side. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it to make it all about her.
Lois throwing herself off a building is of course reckless, but that's nothing new for Lois Lane as a whole, particularly a young and still developing one. That aside, Clark and Lois have equally valid feelings and points, they just happened to bounce off of each other in the worst way as of now. People aren't always going to do everything perfectly, even in stories. They're only human after all, and Lois's flawed human nature is actually kind of what makes her work as a character and the love of Clark's life. She's flawed, but she genuinely wants to do and fight for the right thing. I've always thought she's kinda a personification of Superman's relationship with humanity and how he'll still go to bat for us despite our worst, because he knows what we can be at our best.
Besides, I guarantee you Clark and Lois will have patched things up by the end of this week's episode, just you wait.
EDIT: Yes, yes they did, told ya so. ;)
It does bug me that Amber called Mark a coward for disappearing during the cyborg attack if she already knew he was Invincible at the time.
The biggest difference is that Amber is emotionally abusive and Lois isn’t. Amber knew exactly why Mark had to run out, but still made him grovel before her (after saving her life). Lois first concern was that Clark was okay. She’s mad he’s lied, but she also is shown to have cared about his safety first. It might be a small difference between the two scenes, but it’s an important one.
I think Amber would have come off better if the writers didn’t decide to have her already know. That one thing recontextualizes the fallout from his fight scene against the cyborg and not in a good way for her.
Episode 6 just came out and you were right on the money. Such a great show.
Can't believe Tumblr came to RUclips to argue about this.
You know, it's funny because in the comics, Amber is very different in both personality and appearance from her counterpart on the show. Looks like the writers and chara-designers really wanted to make the audience dislike her.
The personality part sure. But why do you think her appearance would factors into why the audience would hate her?
@@LuffyBlackShe's black. That's how some see it. I have no investment because I don't watch the show.
@@wastrelpervamber being black has nothing to do with her personality. Her being black is completely irrelevant.
@@Mayan_88694 Just parroting what I've read, I don't watch the show.
Amber isn’t toxic lol. She’s a victim of bad writing. Invincible writing staff seems to have trouble creating good female characters. It’s like they put all of their energy into Eve and no one else
One of the only non idiotic comments here
umm, does debbie not exist? she’s great.
@@judoka. I’ll give you Debbie kinda. But honestly what is she outside of being Mark’s mom and Omni Man’s pet
@@KO-mz4ul very upstanding woman with an actual personality & knowledge. she’s not just some bimbo, she’s an actual character.
Denouement is pronounced Day-New-Maw. It’s French and therefore weird.
The French strike again 🫠
I saw a video about the MCU not doing secret identities and for me it completely removes the drama and trope of
"Why didn't you tell me? You could've trust me with your secret!' and so on
(In the best way I mean).
I understand why the trope is there, but after Miraculous and Invincible, I'm done with secret identities, give us a hero who everyone knows the name and face of like Naruto or the TMNT (for the last one, mostly their friends and very close allies, not NY unless you watched the live action movies)
Amber is a perfect example of writers not understanding that being a strong female character does not make them an a-hole and being an a-hole does not make someone a strong female character.
mysoginist grifting a-holes and yellowflash video editors that love to ignore context, were so quick to jump on Lois over something she literally gets over in the next episode that brings her and Clark even closer than ever before. Just goes to show that these people that complain the loudest don't actually watch the show and are only interested in pushing whatever messed up agenda they stand for. Then they oversimplify it kind of like clickbait and people fall for it.But of course they'll ignore that Lois's perspective is challenged by Clark and that in the very next episode they start their relationship officially.
Why? Because they got what they wanted. It's up to everyone else to not buy into the idiocy or actually follow up on the show and see what happens. But they don't count on anyone that thinks like they do to do that, because the people that think like they do don't actually watch the show in the first place.
Newest episode p much confirms shes vastly superior to Amber
The thing that bothers me with online discussions of Amber is that people will say "She's the one bad part of the show" or "Worst character ever" when I really like her EXCEPT for that one episode. Before that I think she was really charming and endearing. And then they just wrote her conflict with Mark so poorly that it made people hate her character as a whole.
It's a shame to know a bad ending to something can sour the entire feeling on it. Technically they'll have more time to do things with amber for sure but I have a feeling the show makers know that bridge is burned
Honestly if you remove the fact that Amber knew all along her anger would make more sense. In the Invincible comics Amber there genuiely did not know at all and thought Mark was doing something bad or shady on the side (like drug dealing) which was why he wasn't showing up on time.
The reveal that she already knew ahead of time just made her look like an asshole retroactively. I mean teens can be immature idiots but I think most would understand that superhero work is no joke really, also considering Amber had a thing for helping people it seems incredibly odd and dumb that she wouldn't be atleast happy it wasn't something else instead of superheroics. Also the making moves on another guy thing not long after was also pretty cruel with the knowledge that she knew by then.
It really felt like they were trying to inject drama into the relationship without needing too and that the writing team did it in the dumbest way possible. There could of been so many other ways things wouldn't work out between them, like seeing Mark getting hurt badly trying to be a superhero and such.
I don't hate Amber really after watching Invicible the second time, I just really dislike what the writers did with her.
Yeah I agree most of the time I liked her character, even defending her in episode 6, it's only in episode 7 where I couldn't defend her anymore as it literally undermined most of my reasons for defending her.
I just caught up last night, but the latest episode really sells it even more. The way that Lois, while angry with Clark, puts that aside to help Jimmy, and over the course of doing that becomes visibly increasingly guilty about how she approached the situation, especially as Clark puts himself between her and danger to keep her safe - it just works very well. But Clark isn’t absolved either - he’s also confronted by Jimmy on it, and they both push him to explain why he kept them out of that part of his life.
MAWS handles the secret superhero with a lot more maturity than Invincible does, by balancing the emotional consequences of such a huge secret with the genuine reasoning behind keeping such a thing secret. Which is surprising, since Mark’s reasoning is more pragmatic than Clark’s IMO.
First up, you got a new sub.
Second, I honestly think that _Ben 10: Alien Force_ handled the standard superhero genre trope of relationship tension over the secret identity incredibly well... *by skipping it entirely.* Julie finds out Ben's secret identity on their first date, and says that it's cool. Later on, Ben's life as a superhero does have friction with his time with Julie, but she repeatedly forgives him (despite him eventually being a much worse boyfriend than Mark from _Invincible,_ looking at you UA season 1 filler) because she's willing to put the greater good of the world above Ben sitting in the stands of a tennis match.
Flash forward to today’s episode:
Lois is worried that Clark’s feelings for her were an act.
And…I honestly think that’s a valid worry.
Yes she could have handled it better, but it makes sense.
I feel another thing was that she was thinking about, "what other stuff could Clark be lying about or what lies has he told to keep his identity a secret?" That is more human than, "i got on your ass for leaving even though the reason was because you cared about my safety!"
I think the biggest difference is that as much as lois has done something bad
she still has a good justification for feeling betrayed
and the show doesn't gloss over what she did, and her motives
while in invincible
everyone takes amber's side and treat mark like a villain
Thank the heavens. Amber is the worst female character in any animated tv series. (Almost forgot New Age Velma)
Lois is in truth what Amber only pretends to be: a brave, independent young woman who deeply cares about her friends' wellbeing, is genuinely hurt by the lack of trust between them, and is actually proactive in trying to communicate with others and resolve conflicts with them.
Amber was the “angry black woman” trope and for what? Tired of seeing us portrayed that way.
Lois is just impulsive, hard headed, and stupid sometimes but we’ve all been there before.
We can say that both are angry about being lied to but I feel like the anger comes from different places. Amber's anger comes from a sense of entitlement to all of her boyfriend's time even though she knows he's a superhero and has no consideration or care for that fact. Lois's anger comes from a place of genuine worry and care, she shows affection when they aren't even dating yet all for a little cut that doesn't even show up in the same scene for a few shots.
Amber however utterly dismisses Mark as if she's some sort of queen dismissing an unruly subject and only when she sees him being beaten to near death by his own father does she come back, it took a demi-god beating him on live TV and using his body to murder thousands for her to show even the slightest hint of empathy towards Mark.
So the moral of the story is this. Communication is the most important thing in any relationship and if you both want something or have expectations then you should make that clear and use your voice like an adult.
Clark does not owe Lois anything.
She lies to everyone around her and is manipulative about it. She has good chemistry with Clark, but it doesn't erase her past actions.
Great analysis I totally agree objectively any sane person should agree honestly. It's easy to understand. I don't understand ,some people just wanna argue I guess. Thanks for the vid I enjoyed it
Folks just have PTSD from Amber so they are taking out on Lois. It’s like when someone gets cheated on so they get super distrusting even if they have no reason to be
LOL, I would love to see a follow up to this in the wake of the most recent of episode of My Adventures with Superman. Especially, since it comes with a spoon full of vindication lol. Episode 6 even reveals the BIG reason she was mad at Clark which even made her initial anger make even more sense.
Spoiler:
She was worried Clark's interest in her was part of his deception in an effort to keep her from finding him out. I'm a grown-ass man and even I was like "Awwww..." when she said that. But it's a logical reason to worry in a situation like that.
I agree that the two are different, Amber is way worse. Although I am hoping that Lois only said what said on the roof out of anger and didn’t mean it. Even if it doesn’t make it that much better, at least she could calm down and later apologize about how she was being irrational and unfair.
However, after everything Lois did to Clark up to this point, no man that cares about their well being should ever get involved with this version of Lois.
1. She almost got Clark fired upon their first meeting. (Lied and abused his trust)
2. She constantly puts Clark’s life in danger by constantly getting him involved with criminals. (Him being Superman doesn’t make it ok, because she believes she’s brining a mortal man)
3. She actively puts herself in danger by chasing criminals, breaking the law, and intentionally getting captured to get her story. (What man would want date a woman that he would have to constantly worry about because she might kill herself doing something stupid.)
i mean the idea of lois lane putting herself in harms way, to get a story is who lois lane is. that's the reason why clark kent likes her, it's her go getter attitude.
@@johnthai6188 he does like her go getter attitude, he does like the fact that she’s brave. He doesn’t like that she puts her in danger. Which is why he always voicing his disapproval of said action.
@@Salazar.945 all i'm saying is the "lois putting herself in danger" is part of her characteristic. she always put's herself in harms way for a story. even in the 90s cartoon show, she put's herself in dangers for a story. so this character trait isn't a new thing: that this show made up.
@@johnthai6188 I’m not saying it’s a new thing, that trait has been around since the beginning. However this new Lois has gotten rid of some her core good traits and replaced them with very bad once. And these bad one changes her go getter attitude into a cut through, short sighted, suicidal idiot.
But hey as long as Lois is cute/sexy, and the audience is not directly affected by her actions then everything is fine right? If the genders were reversed would people say male Lois is justified in her action?
This woman literally tried to get herself and Jimmy into a hostage situation. That ice explosion could have killed both of them; and for what, so she could force Clark to reveal he’s Superman. These are action I would only accept from a young stupid teenager.
@@Salazar.945 i mean most of lois's actions from the comics and other media can be labeled as cut throat, short sighted and suicidal. like in crossover episode with batman and superman, called world finest, she has done those things. like she moves on from superman to get with bruce wayne. but when she finds out bruce wayne is batman, she moves on to be with superman. also the characterization of lois like this was also in the superman for all seasons comic. where she was short sighted and a cut throat. or the time where lois wasn't fazed in a hostage situation on a plane that she was in: that's pretty suicidal. also these characters in the new animated show, are much younger versions.
I mean, Clark kept a secret from Lois for several good reasons, but even tried to tell her at times. First, while they are friends, they aren't a couple yet by Lois's own admission, so there is a least some expectation Clark isn't going to reveal it to just anyone. Second, Lois said she would expose him which at the very least would have caused him some doubt to outright tell her. Third, it's incredibly clear Clark is simply too dense to realize that Lois knows without her just outright coming out with it, or at minimum seems to prefer to keep up the lame charade then admit it. That's really the fault on Clark's side, he incredibly naive and socially dense when he doesn't pick up on it during the "You, me and Superman, at the SAME TIME" scene.
It is a very mean to have done what Lois did, as she just needed to say "Clark...you're an idiot, I know it's you, please stop pretending, I care about you, we can go over it later, just please stop lying to me." instead of jumping off a building an endangering her life and potentially endangering a secret he clearly wants to keep. That or earlier in the episode just sitting Clark down and saying "Hey Clark, I want you to be honest with me....this is serious. Are you Superman?" and go from there.
I mean, it does show at least Lois trusts Clark enough to do the right thing, that his secret identity isn't more important to him then her life is but it's still a bit of a cruel thing to force the issue in this way, since he literally has no choice but to save her. Especially since she knows he's just trying to do the right thing with his powers, and cares for her, as he admitted several times earlier. The thing though is, Lois making that jump isn't out of character for her in this iteration. She pushes the envelope with everyone, often to her own danger, without thinking of the consequences, and keeps doing it since she's always managed to find a way out. It sadly comes across as a little bit of a cheap way to inflate the drama, and create a cliffhanger to see how this goes down, but lets be honest, it has worked.
It doesn't work for Amber/Mark since as there isn't that degree of mutual interaction here, but I would speculate the reason is
...
Their relationship is being written as bad and destined to fail, because that is what happens in the comics, but is being done so, poorly. The Invincible series is a cleaned up for animation retelling of the comics and very much the slightly cleaned up "Bruce Timm" version of Invincible, not a new spin on the story as My Adventures is. It comes across as an attempt to make their eventual break up seem more justified then the actual reason, that not everyone can have a relationship with someone who has to live a dangerous and even double life and that Mark really shouldn't be keeping these secrets (which I think he comes clean earlier in the comics but could be mistaken). I can only presume this is being done to compress time and make the break-up happen sooner because not all of the material is going to make it into the animation.
That said, how it should have gone down was Amber saying "Look, I knew you are a superhero but you lied to me and it hurt me, and when you promised to help fix our relationship, you had to have known there was no way you could have made that commitment as a Superhero. I also don't know if I can date a Superhero." not the cold shoulder "Screw you Mark, how dare you leave to save lives, well onto the next guy." without anything approaching a reasonable explanation.
It's not until he gets the crap kicked out of him by his father, there isn't even a hint she regrets calling it off and that she basically only gets back together with him out of guilt, which isn't exactly a healthy thing either, whereas if she was still conflicted about their relationship, it makes more sense for her to reach back out. It may be being intentionally portrayed as an unhealthy relationship, both in how Mark is keeping secrets and making promises he can't keep and how Amber is interacting with Mark, again to get Mark with Eve sooner.
I like your point on the Amber/Mark relationship. It sucks that they’d be doing it that way too, since in the comics their break up is still due to Mark being a hero, but Amber realizing that Mark needs someone who can keep up with him and she needs someone that moves at her pace. It’s a very realistic portrayal of a relationship that naturally ends, not because of toxicity, but because the two involved people just need different things.
@@n7_glucose I am to understand in the comics as well, Mark often gets on the rocks with Eve as well. This may also again, being done to compress things. Instead of having to dedicate a lot of time to Eve and Mark working things out, Mark learns the things he did wrong with Amber and doesn't make the same mistakes with Eve, or Eve accuses Mark acting like he did with Amber and dramatically, the time to engage in self discovery to fix the problem is reduced to a simple "You're right"
I do hope I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.
One thing I like about their dynamic pre-reveal is how they're both a bit in the wrong at first (Lois a little more for feeling entitled to know something about someone she doesn't know at the time, Clark for not being open with her despite lecturing her on being truthful) and how Clark's hesitation and Lois' obsession leads to the other then having justifiable reasons for their actions.
Clark, under his Superman persona, doesn't tell her, she gets frustrated due to hating being lied to.
Then, when he finally works up the courage to tell her, he hesitates long enough for her anger at Superman to boil over.
Her outburst then gives him a valid reason not to tell her. He was just about to spill the beans, which would have definately resulted in a bit of an arguement regardless given her patience had already reached it's limits, and then he feels like he dodged a bullet by not telling her.
Then she figures it out. Upon learning the truth, that Clark is Superman, it is no longer about exposing him, but getting him to admit it to her. Her anger at him is still there, but her connection to the whole thing is much more personal now. The "stranger" who's been lying to her, is someone she considers a friend. Someone who told her not to lie.
So she makes more and more obvious hints that she knows, practically spelling it out, while not saying it to give him a chance to open up on his own terms. In this way, she is still treating him as someone she cares about.
But at this point, Clark is afraid that she's gonna expose him. A valid fear given that he hasn't seen her change of heart regarding what she'd do with the information. So he lies, and does a very bad job at it, even if she didn't know, she'd see through his BS.
While SHE knows she wouldn't expose his identity to the world now that she knows it's Clark, he has no way of knowing. As far as he knows, her knowing would make her hate him.
When the reveal happens, it happens because she put him in a lose/lose situation. Either let someone he cares about die, or lose his secret and, from his POV, it would be out there for EVERYONE to see, and the relationship they had would be gone too. While it's understandable that she's desperate at this point, that doesn't excuse her, which she comes around to realising. When she tells him "I would never do that to you", it genuinely seems like between figuring out the truth, and that point, she'd forgotten about that, because it was no longer her aim, and it was a bit of an "oh yeah, I did act like that" moment.
Dude the new Lois is probably one of the better Lois we have gotten in a while now.
Let’s gooo! Another great creator blowing up, look forward to the next vids :D
Having read the Invincible comic and knowing where Mark and Amber eventually end up (unless they radically change everything) I think what the writers were trying to set up is that Mark and Amber are simply too different from each other to be able to have a stable relationship, which is why in the end they end up breaking things off and Mark gets with Eve instead, someone who does understand what Mark goes through and Mark doesn't feel he needs to hide things from in order to protect.
The only issue with that in Invincible is instead of treating this as like a sad fact of life the narrative instead says that Amber is in the right totally and that Mark is somehow defective, when really they both just have different needs that neither is able to really provide for each other.
What pisses me off the most about Amber is how she gets mad at Mark for leaving during the attack, then suposedly knows he was Invincible and was fighting his ass off during said attack... so what the hell was she even mad about!?
And yeah, Lois is nowhere near that kind of thinking, i didn't imagine to tie those two together until i saw other people doing so.
Clark clearly insulted Lois' intelligence several times. I do not blame her for getting upset.
Thank you. Lois jumping off of the building was going too far, but otherwise I think she was perfectly valid to be upset at Clark.
I looked at my permanently suspended Twitter once, saw that opinion, and new that Twitter was still as dumb as when I left it
Nailed it. Amber's actions made perfect sense right up until you learn she already knew then looking back she acted terribly. They still could have had her break up with him, so long as she didn't know and the reveal took her off guard.
Lois actually makes me smile and admits herself being wrong amber just made me mad
Lois didn't admit that she was wrong at all
God I love Lois’s new design so much
Two things.
1- We get ample scenes from Lois's POV that should make it clear that Superman is Bad at hiding his identity. Like the Dumbell scene earlier in the Fall episode. She only has her outburst when he kept lying long after he was clearly caught.
2 - Even Lois throwing herself off the building is foreshadowed in the Parasite episode. The villain, wanting to draw out Superman, just tosses one of the members of the board out his window in the middle of the night with the complete certainty that Superman would catch him. Implying that Superman had gained a reputation for always being around to catch a falling person.
The problem with Lois in this cartoon is how they made her angry at Superman/Clark because of her own self entitlement. It all started with scene at 1:40 in this video. She's enraged because someone isn't making her the center of the universe and giving her all their life secrets, and she gets pissy about it as if Superman owes her something in life. For some reason she's mad even before she discovers the Clark-Superman link. Its typical new age writer logic, she's got issues with her father and the rest of the world... but she's going to take it out on Clark because he didn't shape how he handles HIS life around what she wanted. Lois in cartoon and series has often had a touch of narcissism, thinking she's awesome enough that people will just give up stories from her existing in same 20 foot space, but never as bad as in this cartoon. If Lois was a man in the story she would be labeled as toxic.
I get people are claiming all relationships are built on trust. But Clark basically just met Lois. They've not even been on a date, but ya'll holding it against the guy that he hasn't divulged his deepest secrets to her. Its as dumb as having Bruce Wayne meet a lady, they chat and flirt across multiple social events, then writers have her get mad because Bruce didn't tell her he's Batman when they first met. Where's the logic there? What right does someone even have to be angry because a WORK ASSOCIATE isn't telling you everything they do in their life?
I'm fine with just discounting it all as it being a kid's show so we shouldn't think about it too much. But what does the writing teach your kids? Other then how to be a spoiled emotional narcissist.
Bruh. Clark literally calls her out for her impulsivity and selfishness multiple times and she apologizes for it.
Have you even watched the show, dude, or are you getting your info from it from angry Reddit and twitter posts?
Whoever is responsible for the writing of Amber in Invincible and Sarah in Superman and Lois need to see a therapist lol.
Amber likes Mark best when he gets hurt and she can defend him herself. She can't save him when he is fighting people stronger than her.
None of these characters are entitled to the secret identity of a superhero.
To say they don’t trust them is in fact accurate on some degree. The hero doesn’t trust you like that yet, it takes time to build real trust. And god forbid they are in a series where superheros get captured and taken advantage and it’s known throughout the verse, then that only solidifies it more. the myriad of ways shit can go wrong if they put their trust in the wrong person is understandable.
Now those same heroes don’t get to say they were protecting said person by keeping them in the dark. As if you really wanted to protect them you would not be with them. And would instead get with another hero or villain or entity all together.
They rehash the same trope but have yet to honestly subvert it. Have the non hero character straight up say I understand why you kept it hidden but I can’t be with you due to the myriad of ways shit can go belly up. That they won’t be put in a situation where they have to worry bout themselves, family or even the hero all day everyday. Then leave for good while maybe being on speaking terms