It's a lucky car. It found James who is willing to pay and you who are/were(?) willing to do the work properly that it really needs. Stick with it and between you both, we get to see a properly sorted BX.
Errm... ok, so it's throwing up a fair few issues. I'm glad I didn't go further with it myself. But surely that tiny bit of rust in thew wheel-arch liner, under the dash.. it's not structural, so why do you have to weld it? just cut it out till you get good metal and bond a small piece of sheet over it. What's the point of taking the dash out. It's not structural and you just need to stop the rot. Also.. James is patient by nature but it helps that he's used to Ferrari dealers calling him with far, far, far worse news than you could ever give him.
If it’s any consolation whatsoever… your frustration and ranting is highly entertaining as I sit here in front of the fire, feet up, with a nice cold beer!!!❤
Tomato is son of Clement. Like Father like son! If the wheelarch rust is fixed it will go rusty somewhere else in a couple of years. It is on borrowed time unless someone wants to strip and dip it at some point so I would bodge repair it with patches from the outside with either (a) fibreglass or these days carbon fibre matting or (b) rivets and panel bond and then cover with underseal. That will get it a few more years which is all that can be reasonably done. That is what I did with two rusty Minis in my student days and they got MoTs! But it is not my car and I dont have to pay the bill 🙂
When I bought my GT, now almost 2 years ago, I had planned to make a fully series out of it. I actually did start to, and produced a total of one (1) mediocre video. But it ruined the fun of working on my own car for me, and I didn't realize how much time you waste trying to film everything. I'd like to retry, with another smaller project some days, but not now. So respect for keeping it up!
Totally get that. Filming yourself working on cars is difficult when you actually want to get stuff done. That's why I film a lot of talking and not as much actual working...because talking about what I did rather than showing it is much easier to do, and faster.
Good old mission creep. At least by the end of this, it should be one of the best examples of a MK1 GTI 16V around. Which I can't imagine there's too many left.
3:56 my 19 TRD has rust in the pretty much the same spot, except up in the scuttle. The seam sealer cracked and exposed the seam underneath and the two bits of sheetmetal just split. You know what that means? Water was pouring into footwell. I knew the car was leaky, but didn't know where, until three days of torrential rain turned the footwell into a swamp.
Rivets. This may be the point where the term 'bodge' has to be re-defined as 'an alternative and economically advantageous method of working adopted to ensure the continuing viability of the project within existing time and resource constraints'.
I feel your pain re the rust. Found a small spot in the same place. Now Dash is out, heater box is foobared and needs replacing, and there’s 12394392 different bits all over the place. But rust is gone. But need to sort heater before it can go back in. I HATE that heater box and it’s cables, shite plastic swivels, difficult and easily clogged tap. It’s out of there. Vintage air unit going in there instead.
I feel your pain from the experience of several BXs passing though my not enormously skilled hands. When they're good they're very very good, but when they're bad they're horrid. They thrive on attention and can react badly to neglect - all of which you've expressed very eloquently. Of all the stuff you'll be lovingly (or not) doing for that 16v, I wish you most luck with the dashboard, though....
My first 3 cars were BX's. 1.6TRD Mk1. 1.4 Mk2 and a TZD turbo. I remember the maintenance issues even back then, when you could get all the parts from a Citroen dealer. Marvellous things when they were going well though. Many thanks for this video. You may have cured me of my insane middle age desire to own another.
As the ex owner of a chimaera 400hc and the current owner of a land rover series 3 that needed a new chassis, I full well understand the urge to burn the car to the ground.....the fact you stil care says everything an outsider needs to know about your craftsmanship, but at the end of the day you've got a business to run, and those hard decisions need to come first. Do what you gotta do to keep afloat my man, everything else is secondary.
Could you just use a bonding adhesive like they use to install panels on a modern car? That way you can cut out the rust with a chisel or other minimally invasive technique and just add a small piece of metal to the outside.
About those two return hoses from the suspension cylinders.....and the respective damaged metal tubes....I'd 've put teflon tubes on them. Custom collectors from copper pipe, connect them to the rest of the tubes, maybe even follow a different path, and end up to the reservoir. It'll save you some time, and it lasts for ever. 👍👍👍👍
These are the most frustrating - the ones that take mountains of effort but are too good to not be put back on the road. I feel your pain, having had to chassis-swap a Land Rover in the past, and now I've just bought a car that's been sat on somebody else's driveway for three years. Let us hope I can be as patient as James.
I'm starting to understand why there are so relatively few BXs left....the amount of work involved is phenomenal...Citroen really didn't keep mechanics in mind in the design, did they...
I don't think that's neccessarily the case, as I'd likely pick as many holes in any other car from the era. It's just P.T. is throwing them my way all at the same time.
What are you complaining about. You got a SM sitting in your garage waiting to do you in. That thing is going to end you without a doubt. The Tomato is nothing, nothing. A mere inconvenience. The SM is a killer....
Thanks for your positivity. The SM has a crucial difference, in that it's mine. I answer to nobody on it, whereas with P.T. and other customer cars, I always fret about it costing them too much money.
@@UPnDOWN Don't get me wrong, I love the SM. But there will be a lot of upndown involved. I am not sure, if you will live to see the end result. That is not negativity that is observation. But regardless, I whish you all the luck and stamina in the world. You will need it. 😉
@@UPnDOWN No. The BX is a difficult car, the DS is a difficult car. The SM is a car that Citroen garages had problems fixing/maintaining when they were new. Kind of like NSU garages when they where confronted with the RO80's rotary engine. At least the RO80 did not have leaking hydraulics to boot.
Feel better after the rant? I feel for you, I've been there many times. I once took an engine out of a car to do the mains/big ends and it turned into a 6 year restoration.
I guess that the holes in the wheel arch are not at a critical place, like a subframe. The holes, as you say, are like the thickness of a finger, and to me it seem it`s a coverplate between the wheel arch and the dashboard. Maybe you could just clean it and close it with plastic padding. If the hole is big, you may need a glassfiber nett too. Then, in the end, put on a good anti rust stuff. Like your videos and that you appreciate the BX and other old Citroëns. Nils from Stavanger, Norway
Very true Rich in fact were to be an escort,you'd need several buckets and a decent shovel. Can't think of a better chap to be your customer than James, and you know dam well you're going to get there in the end ,but it's how you juggle everything else around it in the meantime ,I wish you well with it ,time to apply Tea and biscuits,after which it will seem slightly less of a chore ,courage mon brave.
Don't squash the toemayto just yet Richard. Lesser mechanics wouldn't see what you can and would just leave it. Plus delving through Clement recently is probably still on your mind. You're a perfectionist and we know it. Think of the end result. It's going to be spot on. Clement too. 👍
This has many similarities with the cars from Harry's Garage, before a small repair to the garage and it ends with a restoration. I also have this with my Ford Fiesta MK2 from 1986, you start with a repair and you keep encountering more, luckily the bodywork is hard.
The problem with working on any old machinery is once you disturb one part of the system it starts a chain reaction of issues and you end up chasing your tail. Don’t take too much Rich, RUclips is only a side line/distraction, have a break
You should be able to replace the hoses over the tank without dropping it. I've done a few without dropping it. The only one that needs the tank down is the breather elbow on the nearside.
Pop-rivet and mastic some offcut patches of aluminium over it... bit of underseal... it's modern car construction methodology... bonded structure or something. Jaguar do it, TVR too ? Just crack on....
Nightmare. However, it is far, far better to have you doing this in a properly equipped workshop, with a ramp, than have to face it outside, no ramp, bare minimum of tools etc. I guess that is why it got passed round like it did. You'll get there dude, and it will be done right. A mate of mine had a Lexus Soarer with hydraulic struts. Absolute shit show as there was only one guy reconditioning those parts, and he was in Australia, and then he died... Plus the Soarer had all the dash display info in Japanese so he couldn't even listen to the cars radio to calm himself down. 🙂
It probably won't burn. Domino disaters catch us all out, you'll manage because you're methodical, emotional but methodical. What size is the tubing on those rigid sections?
@@UPnDOWN, it's the truth. But hey, if he thinks it's worth it, more power to him. You don't think he could have saved money by finding a better example not needing all that work.
I think that if you want a BX 16v in 2023, you have to buy what you can find. The owners of the good ones won't sell them (I'm one of those!) The alternative is to take one down on its heels and turn it around. There's enough in this car to suggest that it's worth doing, but we're all surprised at how much effort it's taking (therefore costing), and this is far from my first BX rodeo.
Whew. Tiring to listen to! As the owner of a pile of rust surrounded by stray Dodge Freightliner Sprinter Mercedes-engine bits, I am rethinking my "But it's a LEARNING experience!" sotto voce mantra. Thank you for your mechanical service. Maybe, start a second lift fund?
@@UPnDOWN I greatly enjoy your videos. If a second lift helps you better to keep income flowing as you wait for parts-'n-time to install them, then a second lift is a great investment in more efficient utilization of your time. More lifts, Cap'n, more lifts! The Maintenance Section is straining under the Time and Motion strain!!!! (excess exclamation points credit, reply author)
Ah the ill just fix this part here syndrome ,the only trouble with that is the stuff that you want to fix is also attached to other things that also need fixing . Such is life lol 🤣 Tomato needs a nut and bolt striped down and sorting that way because that's going to keep on giving you more and more to do , and it will take longer than a nut and bolt at the end of the day
Mate it's days like this you just have to laugh.....I know it's NOT funny but it's like it's never ending.... any way I feel your pain youngster. Hang in there! 🇦🇺
As a former BX owner myself, I can confirm that the existence of sound-deadening material is a complete surprise
It's a lucky car. It found James who is willing to pay and you who are/were(?) willing to do the work properly that it really needs. Stick with it and between you both, we get to see a properly sorted BX.
Errm... ok, so it's throwing up a fair few issues. I'm glad I didn't go further with it myself. But surely that tiny bit of rust in thew wheel-arch liner, under the dash.. it's not structural, so why do you have to weld it? just cut it out till you get good metal and bond a small piece of sheet over it. What's the point of taking the dash out. It's not structural and you just need to stop the rot. Also.. James is patient by nature but it helps that he's used to Ferrari dealers calling him with far, far, far worse news than you could ever give him.
That's what I would do Jack, way too much hassle to take dash out and all sorts!
The mot man would rightly disagree about it being non structural. It's a common area and right behind the strut mount panel.
If it’s any consolation whatsoever… your frustration and ranting is highly entertaining as I sit here in front of the fire, feet up, with a nice cold beer!!!❤
Tomato is son of Clement. Like Father like son! If the wheelarch rust is fixed it will go rusty somewhere else in a couple of years. It is on borrowed time unless someone wants to strip and dip it at some point so I would bodge repair it with patches from the outside with either (a) fibreglass or these days carbon fibre matting or (b) rivets and panel bond and then cover with underseal. That will get it a few more years which is all that can be reasonably done. That is what I did with two rusty Minis in my student days and they got MoTs! But it is not my car and I dont have to pay the bill 🙂
My thoughts exactly... he's a TVR guy so "fibreglass" should have sprung immediately to mind.
When I bought my GT, now almost 2 years ago, I had planned to make a fully series out of it. I actually did start to, and produced a total of one (1) mediocre video. But it ruined the fun of working on my own car for me, and I didn't realize how much time you waste trying to film everything. I'd like to retry, with another smaller project some days, but not now.
So respect for keeping it up!
Totally get that. Filming yourself working on cars is difficult when you actually want to get stuff done. That's why I film a lot of talking and not as much actual working...because talking about what I did rather than showing it is much easier to do, and faster.
It’s a great day when there’s an Up ‘n’ Down video to watch 🎉
You're doing great! So much you have done already, can't wait to see it's finished
Good old mission creep. At least by the end of this, it should be one of the best examples of a MK1 GTI 16V around. Which I can't imagine there's too many left.
There’s some minters over here in Nz. I have a mk1, and a mk2, and know of several really nice ones scattered across the country.
3:56 my 19 TRD has rust in the pretty much the same spot, except up in the scuttle. The seam sealer cracked and exposed the seam underneath and the two bits of sheetmetal just split. You know what that means? Water was pouring into footwell.
I knew the car was leaky, but didn't know where, until three days of torrential rain turned the footwell into a swamp.
It's more of a lemon than a tomato it appears.
At least its not a pear...
The last remark has me in stitches.
Take care & stay safe Rich 😉
Rivets. This may be the point where the term 'bodge' has to be re-defined as 'an alternative and economically advantageous method of working adopted to ensure the continuing viability of the project within existing time and resource constraints'.
I just couldn't do it.
@@UPnDOWN Good man: like me , you will never be a millionaire😄
Funny video your rants are becoming the best bits lol
Clearly a hell of a lot of work
Thanks for making these videos we really enjoy them mate. 👍
PSA undercoatings do that for some reason, Peugeot 309s are the same.
I feel your pain re the rust. Found a small spot in the same place. Now
Dash is out, heater box is foobared and needs replacing, and there’s 12394392 different bits all over the place. But rust is gone. But need to sort heater before it can go back in. I HATE that heater box and it’s cables, shite plastic swivels, difficult and easily clogged tap. It’s out of there. Vintage air unit going in there instead.
As the rust holes aren't in structural areas, why not just fibreglass them and save all the dashboard and carpet removal etc?
Because that would be a bodge! Plus, they are within 30cm of a suspension mounting, so they are structural.
@@UPnDOWN Ah ok, no option then. Good luck.
I feel your pain from the experience of several BXs passing though my not enormously skilled hands. When they're good they're very very good, but when they're bad they're horrid. They thrive on attention and can react badly to neglect - all of which you've expressed very eloquently. Of all the stuff you'll be lovingly (or not) doing for that 16v, I wish you most luck with the dashboard, though....
My first 3 cars were BX's. 1.6TRD Mk1. 1.4 Mk2 and a TZD turbo. I remember the maintenance issues even back then, when you could get all the parts from a Citroen dealer. Marvellous things when they were going well though.
Many thanks for this video. You may have cured me of my insane middle age desire to own another.
I went for a Xantia. A lesser drug, but a potentally satisfying sustitute.
As the ex owner of a chimaera 400hc and the current owner of a land rover series 3 that needed a new chassis, I full well understand the urge to burn the car to the ground.....the fact you stil care says everything an outsider needs to know about your craftsmanship, but at the end of the day you've got a business to run, and those hard decisions need to come first. Do what you gotta do to keep afloat my man, everything else is secondary.
Could you just use a bonding adhesive like they use to install panels on a modern car? That way you can cut out the rust with a chisel or other minimally invasive technique and just add a small piece of metal to the outside.
I did that on a part of my Volvo that I just could not weld. Wasn't structural.
It's within 300mm of the suspension mounting though, so technically it's an MoT fail.
A can of worms you have opened matey, but if you manage to do everything it will be a very nice Citroën BX.
Brilliant little Video mate, and I know you will get this car spot on for Mr Martin, it will be worth all the effort.
Citroen was always (and still is) a very special carbrand. "VERY SPECIAL", never forget.. ^^
Are you aware that Betty is struggling, Hubnut will be calling.
The owner of the Tomato, has been trained by Ferrari !
Nope.
About those two return hoses from the suspension cylinders.....and the respective damaged metal tubes....I'd 've put teflon tubes on them. Custom collectors from copper pipe, connect them to the rest of the tubes, maybe even follow a different path, and end up to the reservoir. It'll save you some time, and it lasts for ever. 👍👍👍👍
These are the most frustrating - the ones that take mountains of effort but are too good to not be put back on the road.
I feel your pain, having had to chassis-swap a Land Rover in the past, and now I've just bought a car that's been sat on somebody else's driveway for three years. Let us hope I can be as patient as James.
The ending had me cracking up 😆 Love the videos, keep m coming!
Haha, sounds all familiar. Currently I'm restoring a customers car... A red BX 16v 😯
Haven't you got a rolling TVR chassis you can drop it on and wheel it around when you need the lift ?
Haha!
James is an absolute gentleman! I can probably send you some pics of my Delta that will make the BX look pristine.
is that an SM in the background?
Yes! I will mention it one day.
Calling it tomato it should be called it lemon and another good video 🚗🚙🚘⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👍
I had a 1.9RD in white.........what a car, reliable, comfortable, economical.........Thinking would I have one today??? Yes.
First time I've ever heard a Brit mention a 'curve ball'.
Not for me.
@@UPnDOWN ever been the batters box and faced one? A well thrown one is a thing of beauty.
No, I'm more of a football fan who enjoys a good knuckleball...
@@UPnDOWN , so I misunderstood? Is there something in your type of football that is a called a curveball?
Could you get another lift in so you can carry on with other routine work?
If I could afford one, ideally, yes.
I'm starting to understand why there are so relatively few BXs left....the amount of work involved is phenomenal...Citroen really didn't keep mechanics in mind in the design, did they...
I don't think that's neccessarily the case, as I'd likely pick as many holes in any other car from the era. It's just P.T. is throwing them my way all at the same time.
You say tomato. Tomato says potato. Keep going
What was that white car in bits in the background? You never mention it.
Would that be some obscure Citroën ?
What are you complaining about. You got a SM sitting in your garage waiting to do you in. That thing is going to end you without a doubt. The Tomato is nothing, nothing. A mere inconvenience. The SM is a killer....
It's resistance training for the SM
Thanks for your positivity. The SM has a crucial difference, in that it's mine. I answer to nobody on it, whereas with P.T. and other customer cars, I always fret about it costing them too much money.
@@UPnDOWN Don't get me wrong, I love the SM. But there will be a lot of upndown involved. I am not sure, if you will live to see the end result. That is not negativity that is observation. But regardless, I whish you all the luck and stamina in the world. You will need it. 😉
@@HeikoQuant Hang on, are you trying to tell me that an SM is a 'difficult' car?! 😮
@@UPnDOWN No. The BX is a difficult car, the DS is a difficult car. The SM is a car that Citroen garages had problems fixing/maintaining when they were new. Kind of like NSU garages when they where confronted with the RO80's rotary engine. At least the RO80 did not have leaking hydraulics to boot.
With the holes in the floor, instead of welding a patch in- glue the patch in with epoxy! Ruf, yes.... Less time and f'ing around though!
Hmmm
Feel better after the rant? I feel for you, I've been there many times. I once took an engine out of a car to do the mains/big ends and it turned into a 6 year restoration.
Not really, but it made a video!
Great cars indeed but when they go wrong they do so utterly majestically!😂
This isn't mission creep, it's mission gallop! Still it's worth saving. Compared to the costs on James' exotics, this is still a bargain.
I guess that the holes in the wheel arch are not at a critical place, like a subframe. The holes, as you say, are like the thickness of a finger, and to me it seem it`s a coverplate between the wheel arch and the dashboard. Maybe you could just clean it and close it with plastic padding. If the hole is big, you may need a glassfiber nett too. Then, in the end, put on a good anti rust stuff.
Like your videos and that you appreciate the BX and other old Citroëns.
Nils from Stavanger, Norway
Wow, is it time to say goodbye, you really do have a lot of patience, good luck mate.
Well it's a customer's car, so really I say goodbye when it's done!
How about. Making a oversized plate and spotweld it. Then a hell of alot of underseal afterwards?
Not the preferred fix, but its a fix.
I kind of like this idea
Maybe a shaped bigger sheet,which can be seam welded we're it attaches to less wiring/ fuse box heavy interior parts.
Maybe a steelplate on the inside beneath the interior fabrics, to protect them from the heat of the welding.
Possibly, something like this.
Because French
Mmmm...not really. More like because 34 years old! In fact, if this was something like an Escort, I reckon it'd be in a much worse state.
Very true Rich in fact were to be an escort,you'd need several buckets and a decent shovel.
Can't think of a better chap to be your customer than James, and you know dam well you're going to get there in the end ,but it's how you juggle everything else around it in the meantime ,I wish you well with it ,time to apply Tea and biscuits,after which it will seem slightly less of a chore ,courage mon brave.
Looking forward to the 205 :)
Same!
Don't squash the toemayto just yet Richard. Lesser mechanics wouldn't see what you can and would just leave it. Plus delving through Clement recently is probably still on your mind. You're a perfectionist and we know it. Think of the end result. It's going to be spot on. Clement too. 👍
Welcome to 90s cars.
Thanks, I've been here quite a while in fairness 😆
Honestly, when that yoke came up I really didn’t think it was funny.
What you did there....I see it.
The old adage "one step forward and 500 steps back..... keep saine....
It has announced itself as a full rebuild. Maybe removing the engine/transaxle will make it easier in the long run. Unfortunately.
Wouldn't make any of the remaining issues any easier, tbf
This has many similarities with the cars from Harry's Garage, before a small repair to the garage and it ends with a restoration.
I also have this with my Ford Fiesta MK2 from 1986, you start with a repair and you keep encountering more, luckily the bodywork is hard.
I think that's just project cars tbf...
I feel your pain Rich. Take a step back mate and have a psychological holiday. You’re doing a great job but the Tomato is stressing you out dude.
Everything is stressing me out, in fairness. Tomato is just one piece of the puzzle!
The problem with working on any old machinery is once you disturb one part of the system it starts a chain reaction of issues and you end up chasing your tail. Don’t take too much Rich, RUclips is only a side line/distraction, have a break
You should be able to replace the hoses over the tank without dropping it. I've done a few without dropping it. The only one that needs the tank down is the breather elbow on the nearside.
I've done carb cars that way but I wouldn't be happy they were routed nicely otherwise. Plus there are other reasons to drop the tank, as we'll see...
Pop-rivet and mastic some offcut patches of aluminium over it... bit of underseal... it's modern car construction methodology... bonded structure or something. Jaguar do it, TVR too ? Just crack on....
Yeah...probably won't be doing that lol!
“Throwing curveballs”
Blimey that’s a Yank baseball term!
Is it in cricket too?
No idea, I don't watch cricket!
No. That would be a "googly".
Nightmare. However, it is far, far better to have you doing this in a properly equipped workshop, with a ramp, than have to face it outside, no ramp, bare minimum of tools etc. I guess that is why it got passed round like it did. You'll get there dude, and it will be done right. A mate of mine had a Lexus Soarer with hydraulic struts. Absolute shit show as there was only one guy reconditioning those parts, and he was in Australia, and then he died... Plus the Soarer had all the dash display info in Japanese so he couldn't even listen to the cars radio to calm himself down. 🙂
I do like a Soarer.
perkele!
vittu!
It probably won't burn. Domino disaters catch us all out, you'll manage because you're methodical, emotional but methodical. What size is the tubing on those rigid sections?
So the good news for us is more content
A good rant is therapeutic, so is a bad rant. Age can be a complete pain, I know, as I'm older than the car and in a worse state. Good luck.
Hahaha arson is not the answer 🤣 😅
That thing is a heaping pile.
Thanks for your positive comments.
@@UPnDOWN, it's the truth.
But hey, if he thinks it's worth it, more power to him.
You don't think he could have saved money by finding a better example not needing all that work.
I think that if you want a BX 16v in 2023, you have to buy what you can find. The owners of the good ones won't sell them (I'm one of those!) The alternative is to take one down on its heels and turn it around. There's enough in this car to suggest that it's worth doing, but we're all surprised at how much effort it's taking (therefore costing), and this is far from my first BX rodeo.
@@UPnDOWN , I've brought back more than one motorcycle that was on it's last legs. I feel your pain, lol.
Whew. Tiring to listen to! As the owner of a pile of rust surrounded by stray Dodge Freightliner Sprinter Mercedes-engine bits, I am rethinking my "But it's a LEARNING experience!" sotto voce mantra. Thank you for your mechanical service. Maybe, start a second lift fund?
I need another lift, but I'm (very) uncomfortable taking money from people for things that won't benefit them.
@@UPnDOWN I greatly enjoy your videos. If a second lift helps you better to keep income flowing as you wait for parts-'n-time to install them, then a second lift is a great investment in more efficient utilization of your time. More lifts, Cap'n, more lifts! The Maintenance Section is straining under the Time and Motion strain!!!! (excess exclamation points credit, reply author)
But I just wanted an oil change!
Hahaha!
You can do it bro! Please film the gas tank removal :)
the tomato is just poorly maintained the last few years
I think so, yes.
Think the tomato is lucky to have found jayemm and ur self and no you haven't mentioned that u have a SM
Ah the ill just fix this part here syndrome ,the only trouble with that is the stuff that you want to fix is also attached to other things that also need fixing . Such is life lol 🤣 Tomato needs a nut and bolt striped down and sorting that way because that's going to keep on giving you more and more to do , and it will take longer than a nut and bolt at the end of the day
Quite a jump going from this to a full-resto, in fairness.
Mate it's days like this you just have to laugh.....I know it's NOT funny but it's like it's never ending.... any way I feel your pain youngster. Hang in there! 🇦🇺
And breathe 😂
Nothing wrong with a rant.
Just shove some filler in it paint over it job done 👍
Mmmm
Because french ... sorry
I mean it is your own fault.
I clearly enjoy a spot of self-harm,