If you haven't already, look into mTOR, neuronal autophagy & ASD. We are quite literally wired differently. Very briefly, autophagy is the body's method of removing unnecessary or disfunctional cells, mTOR inhibits this process. The inhibition of autophagy in the brain results in synapses that would normally get pruned, to remain (among other things). So there's your different wiring. Despite the fact that there are so many different characteristics of autism, and each autistic is different, it's been found that this mTOR inhibited autophagy is a common factor.
Sad true, OP. Video is ok, but I have no idea why there is no perspective of social problem, how we are treated, degree of openess in society, etc. With years passing by I see more and more that this is actually more important, than just trying to research about autism and help on individual level by therapy etc. What's the point, when people around and environment created by them can destroy someone?? Sometimes even the closest people and family... Normal human openess, respect and genuine tries to came to understanding is more important than researches, developing therapies, etc
I saw some tweet or something where someone had put it into words pretty well, can't find it now so I'm paraphrasing: The reason why it is so hard to distinguish autistic traits from trauma is that society produces no none-traumatised autistic people.
Exactly. Whoever is labeled "the other", which includes all those who cannot fit in, is then punished in the tribal mindset of Xenophobia. And this is at the neurological level, and also across it; any one, with autism or without, can do their part to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. I'd expand that statement: life is traumatic for everyone, but for the ones with more sensitive body systems than is typical, the scope of what is registered as traumatic is much wider than for those who are not as sensitive. No one gets a choice which struggles they have to deal with. And so, *doing* empathy is the only solution, despite the difficulty to do so, or to do it perfectly [not possible I think]. The attempt to learn to do empathy "more better", and to keep at learning to do so, is what is needed to have peace and harmony on this earth, with so many different people 💛
I'm 38 and just figured out I'm probably autistic. The worst trauma of my life has happend from about age 29 and made all my traits more appearant. Less stress tolerant and it has made me almost fully housebound. Working at an office where I had to mask like crazy while being in a raltionship with an abusive pathological liar of a girlfriend really brought me down. I was later diagnosed with ME/CFS. I think all this could've been avoided if I would've been diagnosed much erarlier. Now I'm going to try to get diagnosed. But I have so much symptoms and heart related issues that going through an evaluation for autism have come in second.
@@ChrisKadaver Yeah. I had something similar except it was due to a chronic illness. I was finally getting more comfortable socializing by college, but then my health started to deteriorate. It's kind of funny how many of the things Paul talks about in his videos sound like chronic illness symptoms.
I'm Autistic and also have C-PTSD. They are very much overlapped and intertwined, but still ultimately separate. Autism has been part of me since I was born, trauma has been acquired over the years. Once upon a time I was a very happy Autistic child who was full of joy, energy and potential (especially since it turns out pretty much my whole family is undiagnosed Autistic and could naturally understand me)! My main troubles began as soon as I had to interact with the outside world... one of my earliest traumatic memories is from age 2, sitting in a group of other kids for the first time and feeling the dawning horror of intense alienation as I observed their expressions and interactions. Things continued the same way from there. I constantly tried to show up as my authentic self, and I was constantly made aware that no one could understand or accept that reality. I created a mask in order to survive, and as I got older I would experiment with pulling the mask away in different situations. Every time I did, it became very clear that people liked and understood 'me' with the mask on, but found me bizarre and incomprehensible with the mask off. Alongside the social trauma came daily sensory overload, sympathetic overload, cognitive differences and horror at the various dehumanising and incompetent 'systems' I was forced to participate in. My trauma gradually grew, being repeated and reinforced every day, yet being invisible from the outside. By mid-teens I was nearly 'out of my mind' with stress, experiencing profound agitated depression every day, very distorted thinking, suicidal ideation, secretly self-harming and abusing alcohol, almost constantly dissociated, completely withdrawn, often unable to speak, having periods of near-catatonic shutdown where I stayed still in bed for days or weeks. At 16 I dropped out of school, finishing education online, and point-blank refused to see my friends ever again. Doctors were no help, constantly minimising and dismissing my experiences, and despite my parents asking for help over and over, none was ever available (I'm in the UK). I didn't fit any kind of 'model' and because I was self-contained, articulate, got good grades (this was easy), didn't cause trouble at school and didn't attempt to kill myself the system was happy to let me fall through the cracks. In fact I only became aware I might be Autistic in my early 30s after years in therapy, partly because as I processed trauma and my mental state improved, my ability to manage the 'simple' activities of daily life remained static (confusing my therapist). Partly because, as I was gradually able to be less dissociated and more in touch with bodily sensations, the weight of my sensory trauma began to become apparent, and partly because nothing else could explain how I had been so profoundly traumatised by 'normal' everyday life, or why I had always felt so incredibly different from other people to the point where that intense mis-match of perspective, the endless feeling of never being accurately 'seen' or 'heard' or having any truly reciprocal social connection since early childhood became a significant traumatic factor. I'm still struggling hugely after having seen multiple therapists over 10+ years of adult life, and engaging with therapy very enthusiastically! I don't lack competence or motivation, yet I'm completely unable to work, maintain a healthy lifestyle, or form long-lasting social connections. Every time I try to sustain any of these things I end up in complete collapse with severe symptoms. Since realising Autism is part of the picture and finally getting diagnosed, I'm now trying to find an Autistic therapist who specialises in Complex Trauma, but with limited resources that's extremely difficult... it's a very very long and exhausting journey trying to get appropriate help, and there is no system of support. I find a lot of conventional advice for C-PTSD doesn't necessarily apply for Autistic people. For example 'grounding' exercises which involve mindfulness, focus on breathing or focus on bodily sensations can be extremely triggering and unworkable for me (leading to 'expert' therapists becoming confused and frustrated). There's also a focus on group therapy, relational healing, and 'group coherence' activities such as singing, clapping, dancing... which is also incredibly triggering for me, as it ends up reinforcing the 'mis-match' in perspective, communication and emotional affect which caused a lot of my trauma in the first place. There is also a big focus on the idea "fix your lifestyle first and healing will follow" where patients are expected to be able to engage with regular exercise, healthy eating plans, yoga, meditation, social activities etc. and 'resistance' against this - e.g. failure to improve as a result, or (in my case) finding these things massively increase stress and being unable to engage with them in the first place, or even getting worse when trying to keep up - is pathologised and seen as an unwillingness to engage with therapy or "putting up blocks" against healing. On the other hand I tried seeing a therapist who specialises in Autism, but they really did not seem to have a deep understanding of C-PTSD (despite claiming to), often not seeming to fully understand what I meant when I described symptoms, trying instead to convince me that everything could be 'explained away' in terms of Autism alone - for example trying to convince me that traumatic flashbacks and severe dissociation were "just Autistic meltdowns." I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation.
This is the best comment I have seen on this topic, period! I am in the same boat as you, and feel like I had been a cat chasing my tail in trying to get help, understanding, and validation. The way you worded your post was so deeply insightful and also calmed down my frustration and confusion. Thank you.
Rereading this post, at the beginning of your post you are describing all Autistic individuals experiences living in a neurotypical world. I was abused as a child all the way to age 20 in addition to experiencing being autistic. I connect to the rest of your statement regarding unhelpful therapy techniques, but that's it.
@shockofthenew Hi there, I could just sign your whole comment as mine. Thank you for taking the time to put all these thoughts together in a so very articulate way. I am going to share with you something that I'm picking on lately on my own journey towards healing, I hope it's of help to you. And sorry in advance for any typo on the comment, I'm not a native English-speaking person. The thing that, in my case, my CTPSD symptoms were not only caused by being born autistic in an abusive family (with ALL kinds of abuse you can think of, coming from both parents), but I was late to realise that the abuse was an ongoing problem in my life. And, since I was raised and taught in abuse, many of my adult relationships (friends and accquaintances) were based on emotional/energetic abuse as well. The day I learned about the existence of narcissistic personality disorder my whole life started to change, but the change was slow and gradual most of the time. So in my late 30's I started distancing myself from more and more people, including my mom, dad, sister, and many "friends" I had. It coincided with me and my husband (who I think has ADHD and also autism) retreating from society and going to live in the countryside, in a rural house surrounded by nature and solitude (we both work from home). And that's when my mental health REALLY started improving, slow but steadily. After 12+ years of really deep inner work. The improvement didn't really show until I removed myself from a toxic and overwhelming environment, which I thought was "normal". Well, it was normal, in the sense I had been inmersed in it my whole life, and also because most people are able to live their lives surrounded by chaotic and frantic stimuli, and toxic relationships as well. But I didn't realise I couldn't sustain that life until I came out of it. I didn't know better. So now I live here in nature with my husband, we live a really simple and calm life, with few stimuli (compared to living in cities), and we invite some really good friends over from time to time. And we also have good neighbours nearby. So, the environment is healthy, safe and calm in all ways (nature, my relationship with my husband is safe and healthy -even though we both still are on our healing journeys- and my remaining friendships are all healthy and safe, too). I'm feeling and thinking better and better every day, and the improvement hasn't stopped for the last couple of years. I'm even starting to be capable of functioning in a more effective way on my day-to-day tasks, in ways I didn't think I was able to. I've just launched my own online business! And I feel capable of making it work in the long run. So, to sum up, my point is that maybe you could take a deep look at how healthy/toxic is your environment, in terms of relationships and actual physical surroundigs. Maybe you're not experiencing really profound improvements because your environment is holding you back? Not only the individual is to blame, you know. I hope this helps, if not you, somebody else reading. Take care!
*"I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation."* - As a future therapist currently seeking a book deal for my memoir, THANK YOU for this! I'll do my best to delve deeply into both of these specialties here in Canada.
When I went through quite a traumatic time then 'acting normal' became too difficult and I was suddenly acting a lot more autistic than before. (I only got diagnosed after this.) I think it is because the things that get called 'autistic behaviour' are mostly just the ways that autistic people cope with stress and anxiety. So when stress and anxiety are increased a lot then it becomes too hard to suppress autistic behaviour.
SAME, then i got diagnosed that same year and looking back it made sense, i was already struggling to understand ppl and get along w them and my patience and endurance just ran out
As someone who realized that they were autistic, and then later realized that they suffered trauma from their family, it's been difficult for me to separate the two. I even had a bit of a crisis where I thought that I wasn't autistic at all, but that I was just a traumatized neurotypical. I'm definitely autistic though, some of my earliest trauma is related to my unusual behaviors and being punished for being "weird." But it's been difficult separating the "normal" trauma of being autistic in a neurotypical world, from the abuse that I suffered from my family, that they would have done whether I was autistic or not.
same for me.. the only thing that keeps me on the path of confirming the answers and dx is i have a govt file from being a Govt State Ward from the age of 9. and in that filwe i am able to gather little bits of info including behaviour as a baby toddler and the constant theme and sentences of 'she was just different' weird unusuall didnt look or do what other babies and kids did... which then left me opern for mental emotional physical abuse only out of 3 children. my mother was charged.. she was remorsfal but my point is i feel a bit bad for her in many ways but mainly i wish she knew they were right and when professionals fobbed them off they were left to their own stories of childhood horrific trauma..being repeated@@srldwg
Actually it's the other way Bullying prevent the development of neurotypical brain due to trauma and causes autism symptoms later. And the cause of bullying is usually some physical shortcomings perceived by bullies or showing any signs of fear and low self-esteem.
I'm currently working for a company that has 80% autistic employees. Most of my social trauma comes from the workplace. There I can work on social skills, teamwork and self development as an employee in my own way (which has become scary due to trauma) in a safe space. To me, it's like work And therapy wrapped into one. And most of my coworkers are going through the same process right now so I'm no longer alone. Being a dad is definitely helping too, since my sensitivity as well as my determination have proven quite valuable for being a loving parent that provides clear and consistent rules and care. I find that consistency is very important for my son's feeling of safety (he's 3 years old), even consistency about stuff he dislikes (bedtime, brushing teeth). And I really do understand his sensitivity and intense emotions on a personal level, so I tell him that I struggle with that too as well as how to cope (decompress, minimalize sensory input by letting him lay down or play in a dark room). It's also forcing me to get better at emotional self-regulation, especially around anger and self pity. It's not easy, but it's all for love and that to me is the best reason ever to work on myself.
I'm autistic, and some of my autistic traits have led me in to situations which have caused me trauma. I have had the priviledge to get therapy, which has helped me overcome some of the trauma, and at that point it became clear that the underlying autism was something I needed to learn to live with. I was diagnosed at 41, after being treated for anxiety issues for two decades.
I am %100 disabled vet with PTSD and my 4 year son was diagnosed with Autism in April and I see how they are very similar in the way we both act outwards. Thank you for your video. 🤙
I am in exactly the same situation. It's kind of uncanny we are both (my son and I) disabled. I think some people are skeptical, but f them, right? Life is hard enough without other people judging. I try to put all that out of my mind and trudge forward. I wish you the best of luck, love and life. Hang in there - there are a lot of years coming with all kinds of struggles. You don't have to do a perfect job. Someone told me if I love him (my son) that's enough. But I disagree - he needs 10 of me. Maybe you feel the same. Be strong my friend. It's all ok. And you're ok too. I was in a long war, and the war doesn't end in my head. I wish you peace and happy days. You're ok.
I second "The body keeps the score", as an autistic woman who also has PTSD and CPTSD, from several different causes, including living in the NT world as an autistic person, but a lot of other stuff too, this book has been much more helpful than any professionnals (psychologues) I had the opportunity to see.
I’m realizing that my autism has made most of my life experiences to be traumatic. I’m learning that I’m inherently broken by childhood trauma, but such trauma has been exacerbated by my hyper sensitive nervous system. I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but basically I feel like my autism and trauma are intertwined, and seem like one at times 😫
I can relate too! In fact I was research cptsd when a video about women and autisim jumped into my youtube feed. Way way back (I am 56 now) a friend said "you are autistic" but that was the late 80s and women weren't being diagnosed with autsim. I figured it was a joke. But when I watched the video, I suddenly saw my early childhood experiences differently. Being different caused me to have experiences growing up that caused cptsd. Including the way my own family treated me. However, in early childhood, I wasn't treated cruely by my family, but my difference setting behaviors were all there. Suddenly, my life was starting to make sense!
It is also veryhard to see a beloved autistic child experience such trauma and knot having a clue of how to provide the right support. I developed callouses on my knees from sessions with God. Why did he so ill equip me with the required wisdom to rear my child better than I was able to... I am so relieved that information is becoming more available. Now it alsoneeds to become affordable too.
Even into adulthood I still experience bullying, it's just now Workplace bullying and often goes overlooked as most people quit instead of speaking up, not to mention HR being unhelpful for those who do speak up.
I was in HR when a colleague bullied me.. I tried to report it.. then my HR boss fired me.. interesting.🧐 And we were 3 in the HR team. I might have autism but those other 2 are sociopaths. 1 is definitely, the boss was “only” an enabler, people-pleaser.
The medical community needs to advise parents to be assessed when their child is diagnosed with autsim. I know I'm autistic, my parent is autistic and so is my child. It's much harder for females especially adults to be diagnosed. We are dismissed because we mask a lot more. Tired of NTs pretending to be pro-autistics but angry when we are ourselves, direct.
@@kendram60 it's because it's just propaganda to avoid dealing with rising costs of house ,increased poverty, ease the immigration process, atleast in canada our birth rates are too low so we rely on immigration. Politicians just doing what they can to stay in power even if it's useless. Vaclav Havel wrote a book called The Power of The Powerless which talks alot about this meaningless inclusivity but in reference to communism and workers rights. Check out the tale of the Greengrocer from his book, might sound familiar.
Trauma and autism have a lot of crossover symptoms. They are also not mutually exclusive. I have autism but no trauma, aside from being autistic in an allistic world. My husband has trauma, but a lot of his symptoms are very similar to mine. We work with kids with trauma and/or autism and there is a difference between symptoms caused by trauma only and those caused by autism and trauma, but generally the same techniques help in both autism and trauma. Also, that book is excellent!
Would you mind sharing some of the differences you see, if it's not too intrusive? I don't think I have the patience to get through another book. Thank you in advance.
@@caramadra5 with our autistic kids, they rapidly improve when put in a safe and predictable environment that is autism friendly. I also tend to be able to communicate better with our autism kids and my husband has the same experience with trauma only kids. Like we can understand the ones most like us best. With trauma only kids, sometimes even a safe and predictable environment isn’t enough for healing or it can take years to see improvement.
Everyone have somekind of trauma. Only if dad WHO yell to child or lies to child or says that Will do something and Then dont do can cause a trauma. Of If child comes and want to tell mom something and mom says not now mom IS something Else to do. IT can Be very little thang that makes traumas...
The similarity around the need to feel safe is such an insightful point. Safety isn't just about physical safety, but existential and social safety. You've made a lot of profound points. Thank you :)
I am actually doing a trauma therapy at the moment (2 years after my ASD diagnosis) and it's almost impossible to disentangle whether it's autism AND complex PTSD or "just" complex PTSD after all. There are many people in my family who, to me, seem to be on the spectrum, but then again childhood trauma has been intergenerationally passed down. It is such an interesting question that I do not have an answer to yet. Was so happy to see your video on this, it really made me feel seen, I haven't heard anyone else talk about it yet :)
This is crazy. I was literally thinking this yesterday. The more and more self-assured I get, the more I think that I don't have autism after all. I have experienced a massive childhood trauma due to parental abuse and got diagnosed with autism. The reason I'm leaning more to PTSD is because of the self damaging aspect that I had. I'm definitely gonna see a psychiatrist with this question now
As an autistic person who also has trauma, this was very helpful. I'm currently reading The Body Keeps the Score, but have not yet reached the part about developmental trauma. I am also currently in trauma therapy and we frequently discuss whether "it's trauma, the autism, or the adhd" or if it's all of the above (probably the most likely culprit in many cases). I have mostly come to accept that there's only so much untangling we can do (having not known about the 'tism, the adhd, or the trauma growing up and not really finding out until I was in my 40s or close) and that we are just working on healing what can be healed and then doing our best with the rest of it as far as coping mechanisms, tools, and requested accommodations. I'm thrilled that the field is learning more and more about all of this and I toggle back and forth between wishing I had known and being glad I didn't. I see how that could have gone two very different ways. But lastly: I did a massive laugh out loud at the reminder to not share the traumas here or anywhere else public/inappropriate. Over Sharers Unite!! Or rather . . .Over Sharers Please DO NOT Unite Here As It Is Not An Appropriate Place To Do So!!! Thank you for this video.
I have been struggling to get my ASD diagnosis because majority of specialist do not have the experience needed to work with ASD and CPTSD esp. for adults. I worked my butt of for 4 years to try to reduce and manage my PTSD so I could untangle it from my Autism. Like you say Paul once we begin recognizing our reactions and behaviour in our bodies we can start to understand where it's coming from. I'm only at the start, got some wind behind me but got long way still to go. I also have ADHD and PMDD. Everyday I'm on a spinning carousel and never know what I'm going to get. If you had to climb Mount Everest everyday...that's what it's like.✊💜
SO happy you covered this! I myself have to keep reminding me of this as I'm learning about my own mental state and I think this connection, overlap, or otherwise 'grey area-ness' of this topic are not covered very often! Edit: Having watched this, I am pleased to see that I am, likely, on the right track then with my understanding. One thing I notice is that trauma and what 'counts' as traumatic for your body is pretty variable. And there's at least one theory that neurodivergent or otherwise 'unexpected' brains in this society-based world are especially vulnerable to having trauma happen to them, both by perpetrators and by their own mind's evaluation, whereas the same thing happening to an NT child or w/e likely would not. Possibly from social protection and sometimes just because of a difference in cognition. (And some NTs still would, because variability!) I was diagnosed ADHD at 30 and I basically self-diagnosed before hand after tons of research and comparing myself to ADHD communities. I'm at the same point with Autism, and fully cannot BELIEVE how much I relate, specifically, to ADHD+ASD folks. (Purple Ella just made an amazing video about this!) It's proving to be harder to get a diagnoses or even seen about this, compared to ADHD, in the US because it's not 'big pharma approved' per se, and I live in a place with particularly poor medical care availability and basically zero specialists. And also a minimum of 5 hours away from any other large, or even medium, cities. My #1 question I've had in life that was unanswered for SO long was this: Why was I simply NEVER interested in bonding? From there, my journey to do the same as I did w/ ADHD kicked in (Hooray hyperfocus and shifting my intense attention to this?) and I scoured the web for stories, papers, books, etc. I am relatively confident that the foundational answers to the foundational questions that still remained was autism. This was a huge relief once I finally allowed myself to 'tentatively' self diagnose. I kind of assumed I had Avoidant Personality Disorder (and maybe did/do, or at least attachment style). But my issues began earlier than that is supposed to form. Not due to trauma, but due to my nature, I strongly do believe. I had thought maybe my parents as abusive, terrible, or otherwise traumatic in ways I was blind to before. And in some ways, they could be. Almost all parents are at some point. But I finally have come to an understanding that my specific challenges, while more could have been done to help me as a relatively helpless child, were REALLY about how MY SPECIFIC BRAIN interfaced with the reality that was available back then. Getting yelled at is and can be traumatizing, but I was being scolded for misunderstood executive function issues. I was told to 'just' ask for help, yet felt extreme hesitation and uncertainty with how to even go about such a thing and I wouldn't verbalize it b/c I knew people were 'supposed to' be able to do that already. It turns out that my instructions to buckle down and try harder, as much as I thought I could do so, would basically never happen while my focus was not able to be applied the same way as my peers. So I would try try try and fail fail fail. After years of this and with no other explanation, I can now understand why I was treated the way I was. It honestly makes sense, and I don't think my parents are some bad demons or anything. When I, objectively, analyze what they were seeing, I might even do the same with the knowledge they had! (Or didn't have!) They have grown as people even as I have grown, and they were, like all of us, just doing their best. (And by most NT standards, I was actually sheltered, lol) I'm about 50% sure I have various, suspected neurodivergence on both sides of my family. A grandpa that was obsessed with building engines and my dad (his son) that has basically said before "I never think about how other people feel", as well as having a ton of ADHD red flags. My grandmother on my mom's side was well known (and made fun of...) for being hyper sensitive to sounds, smells and all that. I've always related to her in that way and felt bad people mocked it behind the scenes. And my own mother, after going down a path of trying to understand schizoid, depression, or other social issues, I finally realized, had a lot of the same behaviors I do now as an adult: Generally in her own world, often 'spacing' out or thinking, and other similar ASD traits. IDK if anyone would be diagnosed in my family, much like myself, but once I knew what to look for, I could see 'evidence' of what I suspected about myself almost everywhere. And I have to imagine there's TONS of people out there asking questions about themselves and overlooking the types of things I did as well. All the males in my family even have the 'big head' morph that research has recently associated with autism! I know I would be on the aspie-end, and sometimes wonder if I had to go into overdrive to try to blend in since I also grew up in a rural area where help for this kind of thing, in the 90's, was a literal joke I heard many times. But when I go as far back as I can, via stories and memory, I always relate to the autistic experience. I was very 'independent' as child, and rarely cried or sought help. (I've heard about how 'easy' of a kid I was many, many times) I felt like I had to study other people well into my teens to try to understand how to act, and did indeed always, always ALWAYS feel like an act. During group events, I stuck to the wall. I was called shy, quiet, etc. But it was always more than that to me. I had seen the shy and quiet kids who were not like me. They seemed to be scared, but I was deeply, deeply confused. I now realize, after pulling up old memories, that I was TRYING to form a script but just simply couldn't because A) Physical activity (Dancing, moving between groups, etc) was a part of it and B) There were too many variables and confusing messes going on to enter. I had no idea what, how, or when to do anything related to those kinds of school events. Not even a hint on how to start yet was told "just do it" and simply found that I couldn't. I had no way to verbalize this as a kid besides "I don't wanna". Humans have been baffling me for 30 years. In the last few, I've REALLY gotten into psychology and I strongly feel like this helped me in life more than anything else. I now have working models for human behavior and do indeed feel like I'm starting to understand other people and myself. Not too unlike Paul here with EQ learning. It's almost ALLLLLL cognitive empathy and systems thinking, I am coming to realize! The TLDR is that this is a great video, and I hope that not only is this spoken about more, but I look forward to one day reading a book about this similar to 'your body keeps the score', at a time when we have a better understanding of what autism and other divergence even IS. And I know that somewhere, some little kid will be like me, and find that book or YT video or article and not have to go 30+ years thinking they were broken, wrong, or just fundamentally beyond help or understanding. Think about how many 50-60+ year olds are getting diagnosed these days and saying the same things about people in MY age group! We're making progress! I am not bitter that it took so long, I'm joyous that I was one of the humans who went on the journey so that I can relay the importance of understanding, at least in this little corner of reality and history.
Great comment too! Your analysis on your behavior as a child really helped untangle how I understood mine (which was a jumbled mess of clear and blurry until now).
You are not alone 💛 Thank you for writing this comment. This video was wonderfully expansive and thoughtful and I very much appreciated it. You probably already have, but anyone else reading this if you are interested in extra resources on YT for getting to know yourself better in these areas, off the top of my head I can suggest : Tony Attwood, Alain De Botton, more of Bessel Van Der Kolk, Sarah Hendrickx, Gabor Matè, of course Purple Ella… Please feel free to add & share your favourites with us 😊
I’ve been interested in the trauma aspect for many years as it was repeatedly suggested to me that I had trauma to resolve. I feel that the trauma therapies are very important for many of us with ASD. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that trauma informed therapists are little help unless they are ASD informed as well. Unravelling trauma for someone with ASD can be a very different process, and one that I am still discovering. Paul makes the critical point that everything depends on the capacity for the physical body to be in state of safety. Recently I enrolled online with the The Centre for Healing trauma course. This education made it very clear to me that everything depends upon and there can be no resolution of trauma without ’resources’, i.e. things that engender safety. And this is where I hit a wall. My body seems to be on high alert, even during sleep. It has occurred that I have experienced safety in rare and non reproducible circumstances. Something else I learned from my trauma research is that self- regulation comes out of co-regulation. i.e. we must learn to be safe with others firstly, it is a myth that true safety can come from retreating to be alone…yet that was my (understandable) lifelong habit. Trauma Geek says more on this
"Unravelling trauma for someone with ASD can be a very different process, and one that I am still discovering." Yes! i wrote something very similar here.
Very helpful comment. Thank you. I imagine my therapeut reading and nodding "yes a conumdrum. nearly impossible" Imagine my worse Trauma is my mother bullying me bc "I am crazy". How on earth could he say to me "... You have a real neurological issue . Let do a test by a psychiatrist? My mother could be right ? Better die. Just this trap is what i can't pardon my mother. When something is not named ASD, it is difficult to deal with it in a trauma therapy method.
Being physically withdrawn, and easily drifting from awkward conversation are often perceived as PTSD. These behaviors can arise even when the interaction is enjoyed. These reactions go far beyond simple 'shyness'.
And what about a physical trauma while pregnancy or around birth aka Hypoxämie (disfunctional plazenta, strangulation by umbilical cord)? Well it is the first trauma in a row for this condition at least - huuh - for some cases including mine.
You helped me immensely with your channel. I want to do a similar thing with music and how it's helped me cope...but I still struggle and today is one of those days. Keep spreading awareness and understanding to both sides.
Learning about CPTSD and autism has helped me find my tribe. Endlessly looking to professionals to help me sort my inner life was pointless, but I have learned so much on the channel. Thank you.
As I'm navigating a possible autism diagnosis, I've found your videos quite helpful and relatable. When I first realized I might be autistic, it was actually a relief. It meant that experiences I'd had weren't traumatic; they could be misunderstandings. Given my age and childhood situation, those are pretty easy to forgive without feeling like I'm ingenuous or a pushover. I don't know if I'll be diagnosed autistic, but just the possibility and the exploration of that possibility has been so good.
I am excited to see the video. It is precisely the link between autism and trauma that is keeping me busy at the moment. I'm in trauma therapy and the therapist tells me that she thinks I'm not autistic, that it's all trauma. I think I am autistic and I have trauma. But I recently started watching "How to ADHD" and it looks like I might have Attention Deficit Disorder (inattentive). Anyway, right now I have a lot of confusion in my head. I'll wait anxiously for the video to see what you say. Thank you very much, Paul. Your channel helps me a lot.
You should really refrain from self-diagnosing. Also, unless your therapist is also a psychiatrist, then what she "thinks" you might have doesn't really matter. I would really like to encourage you to go find a psychiatrist and get a professional opinion from an actual doctor rather than a therapist.
Just a thought, it may be very useful to self-diagnose, aka self-identify, so that you know precisely what behaviors and experiences to tell a psychiatrist about. Some psychiatrists may be very difficult to communicate with because they may make many assumptions about how things must look, instead of understanding the underlying cause of the behaviors and experiences. This probably is true whether you're autistic or not, but I believe it's even more true if you are autistic and have a neurotypical psychiatrist. A neurotypical psychiatrist might base some judgment on your persona, but as an autistic person, you may not have one, or may not see personas or feel them or interpret them the way neurotypical people do.
Thank you for explaining the difference between trauma and autism since your other video that looked at the difference between trauma and PTSD. Letting my guard down is something I realized after many months of therapy and was also advised about at work, although I resigned from my job because I found it difficult to connect with others and had other cognitive issues. Anyway as a result of learning to let my guard down by simply saying hello to others has opened up a wonderful new world for me. I realize the world isn't such a bad place after all, although it's still not perfect, depending on the environment. I also absolutely relate to what you say about our need of finding environments where we feel comfortable within. For me, it's nature and low sensory environments that comfort me.
Another book on Polyvagal theory is “Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Communication” by Deb Dana. It’s not heavy at all, it explains it fairly simply, and has exercises to help you ‘tune in’ to your body better and learn to regulate yourself, as well as suggestions on activities that help you re-regulate during those dorsal (freeze), sympathetic (fight/flight), and to return to the ventral state (equilibrium/calm/safe/open). It gets a little (to me, anyway) goofy, lol not sure of the word I mean, but she takes about ’glimmers’ and ‘glowing’ expressions, and I find it sort of silly. But, the point is still sound, so I excused the terms. Otherwise I found it made a lot of sense. It does refer to trauma, not autism, but since the body response is basically the same, I do think it has a lot of merit and can be really useful.
Great program on a very serious and relevant subject for many of us. Trauma is definitely part of our experience, and it may exacerbate our autism, but trauma doesn't give us the unusual interests (and sometimes abilities) that some of us display...and that sometimes are the cause of some of the trauma from our peers.
If the current awareness and support were available when I was a child a diagnosis might have helped. I may have been diagnosed when I was taken to a psychologist around the time I first began school, but I was never told what the visit was for and was always treated as an alien within my own family. So at 65 I don't have a formal diagnosis, and it would not have been revealed or discussed if I had been. When I have seen psychologists as an adult, trauma very quickly becomes the focus. It was only after several years of research and self assessment that I was able to determine that my autistic traits were apparent in early childhood. Trauma began at nearly the same point, with some in infancy that was related to my (autistic) traits and behaviors. I live fairly content as a recluse now. The outside world and people can be too overwhelming and I feel much better avoiding all of it.
@@unknowntosociety01 when I did work I had made sure that if things got bad I'd have somewhere to live, and have learned to live very frugally. But even so I'm struggling to stay afloat now. Had I understood earlier, I might have pursued some form of disability or just accommodated myself better in employment. Because I really had a hard time on my own when I was young. But they were different times, and I was driven by shame and a desire to prove I could succeed. But I pushed too hard, for too long, and have been in a state of prolonged burnout and scraping by for over a decade. I only recently learned that's what's going on with me. So armed with knowledge I'm more hopeful. I'm going to have to pursue some kind of self employment beyond what I'm already doing (farming). But understanding I'm autistic helps. I know I can't function in a conventional job, it inevitably devolves into an overwhelming situation. I've never been able to last a year, but for a while I left for a "better" job every time (it's complicated). There are ways to promote and market now that don't require a lot of socializing, or any (lol).
I've lived thru the times you did. I think being end of boomer along with Afermative Action hitting, caused alot of struggle. Finding the job then it's gets more competition, then pay goes way down. Sky high interest made expenses very high. That combo along with secure jobs being a thing of the past. I've figured things out, finally. That's what I thought, then my marriage ended because Entitlement rewarded. It is a complete no win, no way to win. Had the world in palm of hands, luck & planning/thinking & plain old hard work, got it. But again it's taken. Managed to survive thru with much help from a Lady Lawyer. I'm kinda getting footing again. Clearing my thoughts, letting go, that's 80% of my problem. I attached, it was "we". I hope you didn't struggle as hard. My dad left, I was 13. So that compounded life's struggle. But I was different before it all hit, always overthinking. Always guarding. Always took things hard. Always couldn't do Convo/ small talk.
@@petemorton8403 @Pete morton Complete carnage and struggle. My wife left, the last thing she talked about was our endless struggles. Which began in childhood for each of us. I went from "success" to barely being able to leave the house. Her too. The current awareness and understanding might have helped, even now I'm beginning to accommodate myself. Instead of setting myself up with (unrealistic) expectations that guarantee chaos. We tried very hard to find support, but it never occurred to any of the mental health "professionals" that we were both autistic. That's something I figured out in the process of trying to understand her suicide. All the traits and indications were there, but trauma and depression always became the focus. They were looking at the symptoms, instead of the root cause. I'm glad you're creating a way to manage your life, it's harder than it needs to be. But easier since I've accepted that I need to respect who I am, instead of exhausting myself trying to be someone I'm not.
Been at the death is less pain point many times. She tried complete distraction of the family. Luck had my kids stay. We're spared the nonsense BS. She's 8 yrs of "won't pay" the ordered kid money, this after cleaning out the banks & distroying my business/ life's work. The house I put so much labor into remains mine. Took years to get that quit claim signature, but finally. She took a few rental houses I'd built, they were like new. I think she saw how like clockwork I had them running. Many years, then she must have thought she can do it, it looks so easy. Hard to look at them now. Disaster kinda puts it mildly. Supposed to gift them to kids after using them for monthly money to live on. The trauma is all legal, no big thang. I've asked myself why robbing banks is wrong, if this isn't. This is much worse. I guess police would need to 10 fold increase if distroying family and taking another's life's work was turned into a crime. I'd sure say it's a crime. I'm both trauma, many times, and something else yet unexplained. Alone is another uncomfortable life event.
Thank you so much for your content. Figuring myself out later in life and this has helped me greatly understand myself more, deal with stress better, and get better work done. Truly thank you. Amazing content. You deliver the information clearly and concisely.
@@conisalgado1294 Around 30. It put so much hardship and confusion I've had in my life into perspective, and greatly helped me understand myself more, and what my strengths are. So grateful for this guys channel and message.
I just can't believe you added this video today! Just 3 days ago, my psychiatrist diagnosed me with PTSD. Since then I've been researching the correlation between ASD and PTSD. Thank you!
I have autism and adhd, and most of my trauma is around the latter (academically interested kid failing at "the only thing I was good at" because I wasn't allowed to commit to other interests because "school comes first"). The autism - at that point undignosed - I think actually helped me, because I was *so* different that it forced grownups to actually look at my individual needs. It's what ended up getting me into college early, which saved me from a school system that was not equipped to handle me, despite having very competent teachers. Of course, the autism also left me completely isolated from new social relationships with peers, until fairly late in my adolescence. And that can't have been helpful. Especially now that I am able to be quite social and know what the alternative must have been, it's a little heartbreaking.
This is very interesting because recently Ive been trying to work out whether I have autistic traits or whether I have CPTSD from childhood or both. I really dont know but I have considered that I have mild (if thats the term) Asperger's and then I went though a tough time and reacted more to it because of how my brain works. But then on the other hand Im doing alot better recently and I know Autism is permanent. But them on the OTHER hand, Im in my 40s and would like to think I have gained a few more social skills and confidence by now. Its not that easy to work it all out 😕
Mental health professionals have a long way to go on this topic, especially with autistic women. The tendency is to provide a trauma cause of behavior and not see the autism. The pattern of “help” with this mistaken diagnosis causes trauma because it sources our behavior to something external to us. When our behavior is actually sourced from things internal to us.
My counsellor diagnosed me with PTSD, because there was a lot of trauma, but AFAICT he didn't consider an ASD diagnosis, which would have not only helped me overall, but changed the way the combination was treated. Hint: CBT is not good for many of us with ASD. On another note, I have enormous sympathy for people around me who I would lay money are on the spectrum, but are not aware of it, and who have been traumatised in the workplace by an environment or managers hostile to those with ASD. I have seen this first hand.
My ASD husband would argue that from his perspective CBT was his biggest help (via reframing). Obviously however therapists differ greatly. He was diagnosed at age 50.
I'm currently studying a diploma of counselling and in class we have gone through polyphagal theory. This has helped me with understanding how to be a counsellor and my autism in a greater way.
People are born with autism but I think if it is relatively noticeable becoming traumatized is common. I remember having so much interest and curiosity towards others but a few childhood interactions that felt like getting punched in the face and I've lived most of my life numb and withdrawn.
when I see blood or any traumatic event that involves physical harm I immediately go into shock in about ten seconds. I feel as though my brain is analyzing their distress and trauma and just adopts it as it's own experience.
As always, your timing is impeccable! I was just thinking about safety/feeling “safe.” I drew the same conclusions about the necessity of vulnerability for proper/usual interactions. Thanks for the video!
This was really helpful! My naturopath actually recommended that book and I've had it on hold at the library. I really appreciate your warning, because they didn't tell me it was full of trauma! I have PTSD and autism, which made getting a diagnosis very difficult. My therapist wasn't sure if it was "just" trauma or not. I am glad I got a diagnosis, so I know it's both. Learning about how being autistic impacts my life has been incredibly helpful for me. It helps me understand myself and how I can function more successfully in this world and why I have had such difficulties. Safety is so key! My husband is the first partner I've felt safe with and we have open, flowing communication that is healthy. Even when we are upset we can communicate without hurting each other.
So frustrating. As an adult the PhD literally said that it would be impossible to truly tell if it's just my PTSD or if I am autistic. The medical community needs to do better for autistic adults. It was much easier to get my child diagnosed.
What do you want them to do? Several of the symptoms are very similar. Also if you went to a regular general or family medicine physician instead of a psychiatrist, you're not going to get the help you need.
@@benjamin3615 It's always PhD's that do the assessments here. They've all been PhD's for my son as well. Psychiatrists manage the meds. Don't attempt to gaslight me. You referred to a Primary Care. You need help for your personality disorder, it's not autsim, that's for sure. Thanks Amber.
A very interesting video again Paul. I am unpicking my trauma from my autism at the moment with a psychologist. The difficult bit is getting those around me to understand what's going on for me.
Thank you. This makes a lot of sense to me and explains why I have reacted so badly (over reacted) in some circumstances. It is true that in all of those occasions that I can think of I actually felt unsafe even threatened.
*"I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation."* - As a future therapist currently seeking a book deal for my memoir, THANK YOU for this! I'll do my best to delve deeply into both of these specialties here in Canada.
Some people can have both conditions. I have complex developmental PTSD from early childhood trauma and Aspergers highly functioning autism. I'm sailing through life relying on my Mensa IQ, constant masking, learning social skills and waiting for a breakthrough brain calibration remedy.
3:00 Developmental trauma *Pervasive pattern of dysregulation *Problems with attention and concentration *Difficulties in getting along with self and with others
This is a terrific channel. If anyone knows of any support groups for people on spectrum please let me know. I've gotten by this far in life by working really hard and sticking to work related stuff but it would be nice to know some people who might have a similar way of experiencing the world.
I'm relieved and reassured that your Autism channel is covering the subject of trauma and Autism! I've not seen this covered anywhere else on YT (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Here's why: I was not only late-diagnosed with ASD/AS/ADHD but the specialist who diagnosed me also factored in complex PTSD (cPTSD), depression, anxiety etc. Thank you.
I went through a time where I wondered if I might be autistic because some of the presentation is similar to what I experience with social anxiety. It was because of searching for information that I got interested in learning about Autism/Aspergers (ADHD interests me too). I have experiences in common such as; great difficulty with eye contact, always felt like the odd one out, not being able to connect with people (mostly). But there's just too much about Autism that doesn't happen with me at all. I understand what I'm meant to do socially (usually 😏), and I feel bad when I can't bring myself to do it. I'm always concerned about what people are thinking about me. I gather that's quite uncommon with Autism. You're dead right about needing to feel safe. I do _not_ feel safe socially. It stands to reason that difficulty with social interaction would feature so heavily when a social animal has a spanner thrown in the works.
Very helpful. Thanks! I've listened to some commentary by Bessel van der Kolk online, so was able to tune into what you're saying here. I haven't read the book though, so thanks for the summary. He recently participated in an online program of trauma experts called "The Wisdom of Trauma" that was headed up by Gabor Mate and included Stephen Porges. There is a movie by the same name that I think has important things to say to and about both groups and their similar struggles.
Polyvagal theory has been a game changer for me. Would recommend Deb Dana (or even Stephen Porges for the more scientifically inclined). There's also a great podcast on the polyvagal theory, called Stuck Not Broken, which is where I originally heard about it.
I am 62 and just diagnosed as autistic. I always thought that everything I was dealing with was because of PTSD and cptsd. Wasn't until an extreme traumatic event I may be coming homeless, and vehicle broke down, and having to move in with so many different people that I started realizing there's something else going on. Why aren't people understanding me and why can't I communicate like they do. The mask was coming off that I put on since childhood that I never realized I had
Definitely interested in this...when I brought up thinking I was on the spectrum to a therapist, she said she thinks it's trauma and c-ptsd. Does everyone with C-ptsd stim?
No. Also many autistic people with c-ptsd don't stim because part of the major autistic trauma comes from masking and stim supression... And whatever means people make us stop stimming-
I have CPTSD...and ASD. They are not exclusive, but having both makes diagnosis difficult and you need a specialist experienced in both. And those are seemingly almost as rare as fairy dust. 💜
Can you remember asd characteristics when you were a kid? Before the trauma may have happened? Ppl are born with ASD so some signs would be there before the ptsd
I think in some cases the autism often contributes towards the trauma. And then the trauma causes autism symptoms which causes more trauma which causes worse autism which causes more trauma and so on and so fourth. Especially with people who are undiagnosed
looking forward to the video when i wake up for work. QUESTION: can you do a video on how to mask less? even just to family.ive realized how much of a coping mechanism it is, and not in a good way. its more of an instinct or a flinch. i like to smile sometimes, at work i will smile at people so they think im happy inside, i dont want to be seen as the grumpy depressed person i am to myself. but i find myself smiling and doing things for family who take advantage of my agreeableness and i never feel heard or listened to. why do i find it hard to be myself? its like i cant trust anyone, but im very trusting and get taken advantage of for that, im too open about things. i think ive always had aspbergers but the major traumas in my life made me unable to trust people on a mutual respect level, i trust people completely, but never gain anybody elses trust because im too easy, i must have a motive, thats the only explanation i have. im so alone :( undiagnosed 31, perth. grew up in a small outback town.
I was recently diagnosed with ASD and I can relate to this. Currently struggling with how alone I can often feel, even when surrounded by family n friends. I don't even know how to ask for help anymore because I just forever feel like a burden. Trauma from being bullied and taken advantage of added to my hyper vigilant mind can be torture. Spent 11 years as a severe opiate addict, I'm now 36 and been off opiates for about 5 years now...some days are better than others, some are harsh...today is one of those harsh days
The scary thing for me is that doing grounding based trauma therapies during a terrible time in my life, led to me being able to notice context and tone and meaning in verbal communication from others and even of my own, very clearly for the first time in my life. It was like getting glasses, glasses that scared me to be honest. The more I did these techniques I was able to notice more and more social ques. I had not lived like this and it was like a super power to me and I felt "normal" for the first time in my life or like I could FINALLY understand how people understood social things. But it was a lot to maintain. It took a painful inner work and awareness of others as regular consistent work - and active empathy, and grounding through this. It was not my default and I wonder if for NTs this is more effortless, but also on a spectrum just like Autism. Also it wasn't sustainable for me because of the amount of effort and made me seek out supports for my autism as a result. I'm really grateful for this topic being discussed for the reason of my own personal experience.
and a lot of Autistic People have trauma FROM navigating this planet with Autism and how we have been treated by the world that is not friendly to the neurodiverse
I perceive we may be more vulnerable to "existential slaps", in more than corporeal concerns. It's a term coined when folks realize that their demise is imminent. "Aspie's" I contend are susceptible to intimacy slaps, recurring social slaps too. I think it's a blessing and a curse that our "depth perception" is much more attuned, while surface behaviors go unnoticed...
I'm finding this reeeeaaally interesting and helpful. I've been diagnosed with complex ptsd a few years prior, still going to therapy now, and i've been struggling a lot to figure out if i might be on the spectrum or not because there are so many things used as diagnose criteria for autism which can easily be due to my trauma. Still scared to ask my therapist to maybe check me on autism, but i think this video helped me to get the courage now.
Spent a lot of money on therapist and nothing has worked as well as talking to an autistic coach. It’s help me understand I’m not alone in the way I think different and is giving me the tools to face the trauma that have come my way. I identify as an autistic alcoholic who was scared of catching Asperger when I was a teenager. In recovery I’ve learned the only cure for an alcoholic is a support system that keeps me from the first drink. In Autism I believe it’s finding a support system that gives me room to be me in world that doesn’t, as they beg everyone to be the true you.
This is so my life. I can't untangle these as they even feel the sameook the same... I think a lot of the things which help may also be the same? At least, counseling both helps - is best! But, you said it better.
Autism is a beautiful human with special abilities, I learned to live in their world . You are so amazing and I thank you for this platform. I understand all your videos and you have helped us understand our children's world in such a great way, thank you. I have a question? Do you know about Entomophobia and Autism?
I've gone back and forth thinking I have one, then the other. At this point in my life (and this may change someday), I've just decided to relinquish both labels. For me, that makes it easier to keep an open mind about why I may have certain traits, where they might come from, and whether I conclude that it's something I can work to "heal" from or whether it's enough of a "part" of me where I want to fight for people/society to accommodate my differences. It's like....not labeling myself helps me reflect on myself a little more loosely and even "creatively" if that makes sense. I think the downside of rejecting those labels, though, is that labels are sometimes helpful in forming solidarity with people experiencing similar things to you, and coming together to fight the political fights around accessibility! so idk, tradeoffs.
That makes so sense to me ! 😃 I'm looking for a traumatherapist anyway, but I feel like I need a lot of "security" even though situations are not (yet) related to Trauma. Just a very few number of people understand it. Thanks for your Videos! 😃 Greetings from germany 😊
I was traumatized at the age of 2 and I present EXACTLY like an autistic person. Everyone treated me different. My upbringing definitely seemed like the "autistic experience".
I just have CPTSD with ADHD and OCD and I can relate a lot of those on the spectrum when I’m not actually autistic. 1. I stim such as hand flapping and rock and even have obsessive repetitive interests just like those with Autism, 2. I prefer to be alone and not have many friends and 3. I have sensory deprivation which means I like blasting loud music and an obsession with it when I was younger I was over sensitive to when I was younger. These are a lot of similarities and that’s the common reason why we are misdiagnosed either way around.
yeah , this , very few people i meet dont try to use me , im enthusiastic and driven , but at times naïve , im so tired of being used man , its getting old now (and so am i )
Autism is a cluster of symptoms all pointing towards metabolic dysregulation, which can indeed be caused by trauma. For emotionally sensible children, having a narcissistic parent that is enable to give them proper emotional support can lead to C-PTSD and cognitive impairments. I know that's what happened to me, at the very least...
Yep me too and I show up as autistic on every test but have been diagnosed with Complex PTSD, narc mother, absent father, absolutely zero stability growing up but there were definitely signs of neurodivergence from the start so I suspect it’s a bit of both!
Many Asperger people seem NOT to be interested in paying closer attention to a process, but have a strong focus on getting the result. This type of personality is much appreciated in the corporate world, but when it comes down to the human relationship, especially with Intimate relationships, Asperger people seem to experience a great struggle, because of their propensity to hyper focus on the result while missing paying attention to the process. This could lead people to feel Asperger people being "lack of empathy" and "lack of compassion." In this regime, I'd like to learn how I could support my son with Asperger's to have his happy love life with his partner, family, and community in future.. Any advice is much appreciate
It's certainly normal to have both. Looking at my own family, I noticed that ASD will increase the sensitivity and therefore reactivity of the nervous system so they will have a much more intense experience of the trauma compared to a neurotypical person. Personally I came across Bessel's book and have used its bottom-up approach for my own wellbeing. Not everything recommended will work of course. There are also tips that I learned else where: 1) Breathing out in two quick successions to reduce anxiety. 2) Placing your right hand under your arm pit so you hug yourself to feel safe.
Hi folks - fellow Aspie here, and abuse survivor (lots of us are). I didn't know that for decades, but finding out the real situation was tantamount to discovering a new continent. One thing I've felt on and off from the time I was very little (like 3 little) is that I'm not real, I'm not here. I don't know what this all is. But it's not real. I still feel like that sometimes, when I think about it. Anyone else? Edit: the "disassociated" feeling may originate from abuse - lots of us suffer that because some people see our inability to defend ourselves (when young) and pounce. I've been angry for decades.
There is actually a lot of research out there on the brain and trauma. I went looking for it after watching your other trauma/ autism video. (I'm an autistic counseling grad student.) Apparently, the autistic brain is not only more prone to experiencing events as trauma, due to hyper-functioning with sensory perception, emotions, etc., but it's also more prone to storing memories as trauma due to hyper-functioning of memory. Add to that the fact that autistic people are more likely to experience significant trauma, and I definitely think all therapists treating autistic people should be trained in trauma treatments. For me, it was helpful to realize that this is another way my brain is actually wired differently.
It's trauma at an early age, when the brain is not fully developed, which disrupts the developmental path and gives rise to effects differing from the ones arising in a fully developed brain undergoing psychological trauma.
About sharing traumatic experiences on the public forum or in casual conversation. When I was growing up I didn't get the difference between light conversation and mentioning my trauma, because both were normal life for me. I did't get that most people didn't experience the same things I experienced. I didn't know then that a therapist was even an option for me. I didn't cry or talk for hours abot it, just mention it emotionless in a conversation. People reactions were silence or changing the topic. They didn't want to hear me out and I still feel hurt by this. Now still I don't really get why people don't want to hear traumatic stuff (except for people that get triggered by it, that I get) and react wierd, even if I don't cry in front of them. I just want to feel accepted and talk freely about myself and my life and don't have to lie all the time (I hate lying).
In my opinion and my own experience it is. Most of the autism symptoms can be explained by a nervous system that is in a constant state of freeze. A human being in a constant state of threat will have of course problems to relate to other humans.. I was surprised to get to know myself in a very different way once I got out of this state. The freeze response is the earliest and only threat response that is available for a baby in the first few months. We might not be able to remember our trauma. But our body does. And if I meet my mother these days after all those years of therapy it's not so difficult for me to see what could have gone wrong. I mean she basically doesn't feel her body and her feelings much at all.
My feeling is that my kids were affected by my pre eclampsia during pregnancy....I have two possibly 3 kids on the spectrum. Pre eclampsia in all 3 pregnancies. (Plus multiple miscarriages), my kids are so beautiful and I wouldn't have them any way other than who they are. I just can't help but feel sad that maybe my health problems caused them any difficulties 😪 I also have autoimmune issues such as Graves Disease and Anti Phospholipid Syndrome
It’s not just trauma. We are traumatised by how society treats us but we are definitely wired differently
If you haven't already, look into mTOR, neuronal autophagy & ASD. We are quite literally wired differently.
Very briefly, autophagy is the body's method of removing unnecessary or disfunctional cells, mTOR inhibits this process. The inhibition of autophagy in the brain results in synapses that would normally get pruned, to remain (among other things). So there's your different wiring.
Despite the fact that there are so many different characteristics of autism, and each autistic is different, it's been found that this mTOR inhibited autophagy is a common factor.
Autism and trauma definitely go hand in hand. Correlative overlap is strong. Alas, correlation is not causation.
Trauma often caused by the sheer loneliness.
. .and even more so maybe, by how society treats those whose are in that overloaded/shutdown state.
Sad true, OP. Video is ok, but I have no idea why there is no perspective of social problem, how we are treated, degree of openess in society, etc. With years passing by I see more and more that this is actually more important, than just trying to research about autism and help on individual level by therapy etc. What's the point, when people around and environment created by them can destroy someone?? Sometimes even the closest people and family... Normal human openess, respect and genuine tries to came to understanding is more important than researches, developing therapies, etc
I saw some tweet or something where someone had put it into words pretty well, can't find it now so I'm paraphrasing: The reason why it is so hard to distinguish autistic traits from trauma is that society produces no none-traumatised autistic people.
Exactly. Whoever is labeled "the other", which includes all those who cannot fit in, is then punished in the tribal mindset of Xenophobia. And this is at the neurological level, and also across it; any one, with autism or without, can do their part to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
I'd expand that statement: life is traumatic for everyone, but for the ones with more sensitive body systems than is typical, the scope of what is registered as traumatic is much wider than for those who are not as sensitive.
No one gets a choice which struggles they have to deal with. And so, *doing* empathy is the only solution, despite the difficulty to do so, or to do it perfectly [not possible I think]. The attempt to learn to do empathy "more better", and to keep at learning to do so, is what is needed to have peace and harmony on this earth, with so many different people 💛
Pretty much, I feel 10000% more limited as an autistic person around neurotypical people than I do by myself or with other neurodivergent folk.
I'm 38 and just figured out I'm probably autistic. The worst trauma of my life has happend from about age 29 and made all my traits more appearant. Less stress tolerant and it has made me almost fully housebound. Working at an office where I had to mask like crazy while being in a raltionship with an abusive pathological liar of a girlfriend really brought me down. I was later diagnosed with ME/CFS. I think all this could've been avoided if I would've been diagnosed much erarlier. Now I'm going to try to get diagnosed. But I have so much symptoms and heart related issues that going through an evaluation for autism have come in second.
@@yaggayaggaya9918 me too ! I generally actually feel very capable around other neurodivergents hahah
@@ChrisKadaver Yeah. I had something similar except it was due to a chronic illness. I was finally getting more comfortable socializing by college, but then my health started to deteriorate. It's kind of funny how many of the things Paul talks about in his videos sound like chronic illness symptoms.
I'm Autistic and also have C-PTSD. They are very much overlapped and intertwined, but still ultimately separate. Autism has been part of me since I was born, trauma has been acquired over the years. Once upon a time I was a very happy Autistic child who was full of joy, energy and potential (especially since it turns out pretty much my whole family is undiagnosed Autistic and could naturally understand me)! My main troubles began as soon as I had to interact with the outside world... one of my earliest traumatic memories is from age 2, sitting in a group of other kids for the first time and feeling the dawning horror of intense alienation as I observed their expressions and interactions. Things continued the same way from there. I constantly tried to show up as my authentic self, and I was constantly made aware that no one could understand or accept that reality. I created a mask in order to survive, and as I got older I would experiment with pulling the mask away in different situations. Every time I did, it became very clear that people liked and understood 'me' with the mask on, but found me bizarre and incomprehensible with the mask off.
Alongside the social trauma came daily sensory overload, sympathetic overload, cognitive differences and horror at the various dehumanising and incompetent 'systems' I was forced to participate in. My trauma gradually grew, being repeated and reinforced every day, yet being invisible from the outside. By mid-teens I was nearly 'out of my mind' with stress, experiencing profound agitated depression every day, very distorted thinking, suicidal ideation, secretly self-harming and abusing alcohol, almost constantly dissociated, completely withdrawn, often unable to speak, having periods of near-catatonic shutdown where I stayed still in bed for days or weeks. At 16 I dropped out of school, finishing education online, and point-blank refused to see my friends ever again. Doctors were no help, constantly minimising and dismissing my experiences, and despite my parents asking for help over and over, none was ever available (I'm in the UK). I didn't fit any kind of 'model' and because I was self-contained, articulate, got good grades (this was easy), didn't cause trouble at school and didn't attempt to kill myself the system was happy to let me fall through the cracks.
In fact I only became aware I might be Autistic in my early 30s after years in therapy, partly because as I processed trauma and my mental state improved, my ability to manage the 'simple' activities of daily life remained static (confusing my therapist). Partly because, as I was gradually able to be less dissociated and more in touch with bodily sensations, the weight of my sensory trauma began to become apparent, and partly because nothing else could explain how I had been so profoundly traumatised by 'normal' everyday life, or why I had always felt so incredibly different from other people to the point where that intense mis-match of perspective, the endless feeling of never being accurately 'seen' or 'heard' or having any truly reciprocal social connection since early childhood became a significant traumatic factor.
I'm still struggling hugely after having seen multiple therapists over 10+ years of adult life, and engaging with therapy very enthusiastically! I don't lack competence or motivation, yet I'm completely unable to work, maintain a healthy lifestyle, or form long-lasting social connections. Every time I try to sustain any of these things I end up in complete collapse with severe symptoms. Since realising Autism is part of the picture and finally getting diagnosed, I'm now trying to find an Autistic therapist who specialises in Complex Trauma, but with limited resources that's extremely difficult... it's a very very long and exhausting journey trying to get appropriate help, and there is no system of support.
I find a lot of conventional advice for C-PTSD doesn't necessarily apply for Autistic people. For example 'grounding' exercises which involve mindfulness, focus on breathing or focus on bodily sensations can be extremely triggering and unworkable for me (leading to 'expert' therapists becoming confused and frustrated). There's also a focus on group therapy, relational healing, and 'group coherence' activities such as singing, clapping, dancing... which is also incredibly triggering for me, as it ends up reinforcing the 'mis-match' in perspective, communication and emotional affect which caused a lot of my trauma in the first place. There is also a big focus on the idea "fix your lifestyle first and healing will follow" where patients are expected to be able to engage with regular exercise, healthy eating plans, yoga, meditation, social activities etc. and 'resistance' against this - e.g. failure to improve as a result, or (in my case) finding these things massively increase stress and being unable to engage with them in the first place, or even getting worse when trying to keep up - is pathologised and seen as an unwillingness to engage with therapy or "putting up blocks" against healing.
On the other hand I tried seeing a therapist who specialises in Autism, but they really did not seem to have a deep understanding of C-PTSD (despite claiming to), often not seeming to fully understand what I meant when I described symptoms, trying instead to convince me that everything could be 'explained away' in terms of Autism alone - for example trying to convince me that traumatic flashbacks and severe dissociation were "just Autistic meltdowns." I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation.
This is the best comment I have seen on this topic, period! I am in the same boat as you, and feel like I had been a cat chasing my tail in trying to get help, understanding, and validation.
The way you worded your post was so deeply insightful and also calmed down my frustration and confusion. Thank you.
Rereading this post, at the beginning of your post you are describing all Autistic individuals experiences living in a neurotypical world.
I was abused as a child all the way to age 20 in addition to experiencing being autistic.
I connect to the rest of your statement regarding unhelpful therapy techniques, but that's it.
@shockofthenew Hi there, I could just sign your whole comment as mine. Thank you for taking the time to put all these thoughts together in a so very articulate way. I am going to share with you something that I'm picking on lately on my own journey towards healing, I hope it's of help to you. And sorry in advance for any typo on the comment, I'm not a native English-speaking person.
The thing that, in my case, my CTPSD symptoms were not only caused by being born autistic in an abusive family (with ALL kinds of abuse you can think of, coming from both parents), but I was late to realise that the abuse was an ongoing problem in my life. And, since I was raised and taught in abuse, many of my adult relationships (friends and accquaintances) were based on emotional/energetic abuse as well.
The day I learned about the existence of narcissistic personality disorder my whole life started to change, but the change was slow and gradual most of the time. So in my late 30's I started distancing myself from more and more people, including my mom, dad, sister, and many "friends" I had. It coincided with me and my husband (who I think has ADHD and also autism) retreating from society and going to live in the countryside, in a rural house surrounded by nature and solitude (we both work from home).
And that's when my mental health REALLY started improving, slow but steadily. After 12+ years of really deep inner work. The improvement didn't really show until I removed myself from a toxic and overwhelming environment, which I thought was "normal". Well, it was normal, in the sense I had been inmersed in it my whole life, and also because most people are able to live their lives surrounded by chaotic and frantic stimuli, and toxic relationships as well. But I didn't realise I couldn't sustain that life until I came out of it. I didn't know better.
So now I live here in nature with my husband, we live a really simple and calm life, with few stimuli (compared to living in cities), and we invite some really good friends over from time to time. And we also have good neighbours nearby. So, the environment is healthy, safe and calm in all ways (nature, my relationship with my husband is safe and healthy -even though we both still are on our healing journeys- and my remaining friendships are all healthy and safe, too).
I'm feeling and thinking better and better every day, and the improvement hasn't stopped for the last couple of years. I'm even starting to be capable of functioning in a more effective way on my day-to-day tasks, in ways I didn't think I was able to. I've just launched my own online business! And I feel capable of making it work in the long run.
So, to sum up, my point is that maybe you could take a deep look at how healthy/toxic is your environment, in terms of relationships and actual physical surroundigs. Maybe you're not experiencing really profound improvements because your environment is holding you back? Not only the individual is to blame, you know.
I hope this helps, if not you, somebody else reading.
Take care!
*"I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation."* - As a future therapist currently seeking a book deal for my memoir, THANK YOU for this! I'll do my best to delve deeply into both of these specialties here in Canada.
When I went through quite a traumatic time then 'acting normal' became too difficult and I was suddenly acting a lot more autistic than before. (I only got diagnosed after this.) I think it is because the things that get called 'autistic behaviour' are mostly just the ways that autistic people cope with stress and anxiety. So when stress and anxiety are increased a lot then it becomes too hard to suppress autistic behaviour.
Not labeled as Autistic behavior.
Autistic traits absolutely.
Behavioral issues, yes.
SAME, then i got diagnosed that same year and looking back it made sense, i was already struggling to understand ppl and get along w them and my patience and endurance just ran out
As someone who realized that they were autistic, and then later realized that they suffered trauma from their family, it's been difficult for me to separate the two. I even had a bit of a crisis where I thought that I wasn't autistic at all, but that I was just a traumatized neurotypical. I'm definitely autistic though, some of my earliest trauma is related to my unusual behaviors and being punished for being "weird." But it's been difficult separating the "normal" trauma of being autistic in a neurotypical world, from the abuse that I suffered from my family, that they would have done whether I was autistic or not.
This is exactly what I went through, am going through.
same for me.. the only thing that keeps me on the path of confirming the answers and dx is i have a govt file from being a Govt State Ward from the age of 9. and in that filwe i am able to gather little bits of info including behaviour as a baby toddler and the constant theme and sentences of 'she was just different' weird unusuall didnt look or do what other babies and kids did... which then left me opern for mental emotional physical abuse only out of 3 children. my mother was charged.. she was remorsfal but my point is i feel a bit bad for her in many ways but mainly i wish she knew they were right and when professionals fobbed them off they were left to their own stories of childhood horrific trauma..being repeated@@srldwg
Bullying causes trauma and when one is on the spectrum, we tend to get bullied/ rejected 😫
I have no female friends. I wish I did.
All it takes is being neuroatypical in any way to be relentlessly rejected, bullied and ostracized.
Actually it's the other way
Bullying prevent the development of neurotypical brain due to trauma and causes autism symptoms later.
And the cause of bullying is usually some physical shortcomings perceived by bullies or showing any signs of fear and low self-esteem.
Yes
@@cystish your comment makes no sense. By the way, you are born Autistic.
I'm currently working for a company that has 80% autistic employees. Most of my social trauma comes from the workplace. There I can work on social skills, teamwork and self development as an employee in my own way (which has become scary due to trauma) in a safe space. To me, it's like work And therapy wrapped into one. And most of my coworkers are going through the same process right now so I'm no longer alone. Being a dad is definitely helping too, since my sensitivity as well as my determination have proven quite valuable for being a loving parent that provides clear and consistent rules and care. I find that consistency is very important for my son's feeling of safety (he's 3 years old), even consistency about stuff he dislikes (bedtime, brushing teeth). And I really do understand his sensitivity and intense emotions on a personal level, so I tell him that I struggle with that too as well as how to cope (decompress, minimalize sensory input by letting him lay down or play in a dark room). It's also forcing me to get better at emotional self-regulation, especially around anger and self pity. It's not easy, but it's all for love and that to me is the best reason ever to work on myself.
I'm autistic, and some of my autistic traits have led me in to situations which have caused me trauma. I have had the priviledge to get therapy, which has helped me overcome some of the trauma, and at that point it became clear that the underlying autism was something I needed to learn to live with. I was diagnosed at 41, after being treated for anxiety issues for two decades.
When you said the book was heavy, my first reaction was "well how heavy could it be? Would I not be able to carry it?" 😂
I love your profile picture did you know Syd Barrett was probably autistic
LOL same. Even though I've learned to understand figures of speech and stuff, my first impulse is usually to take things literally
@@seatbelttruck Yup it corrects itself quickly usually but this one was a whole ass thought lmao
I bought it but have yet to read it based on the fact that it's 'heavy'
I can relate to that.
I am %100 disabled vet with PTSD and my 4 year son was diagnosed with Autism in April and I see how they are very similar in the way we both act outwards. Thank you for your video. 🤙
I am in exactly the same situation. It's kind of uncanny we are both (my son and I) disabled. I think some people are skeptical, but f them, right? Life is hard enough without other people judging. I try to put all that out of my mind and trudge forward. I wish you the best of luck, love and life. Hang in there - there are a lot of years coming with all kinds of struggles. You don't have to do a perfect job. Someone told me if I love him (my son) that's enough. But I disagree - he needs 10 of me. Maybe you feel the same. Be strong my friend. It's all ok. And you're ok too. I was in a long war, and the war doesn't end in my head. I wish you peace and happy days. You're ok.
I second "The body keeps the score", as an autistic woman who also has PTSD and CPTSD, from several different causes, including living in the NT world as an autistic person, but a lot of other stuff too, this book has been much more helpful than any professionnals (psychologues) I had the opportunity to see.
I’m realizing that my autism has made most of my life experiences to be traumatic. I’m learning that I’m inherently broken by childhood trauma, but such trauma has been exacerbated by my hyper sensitive nervous system. I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but basically I feel like my autism and trauma are intertwined, and seem like one at times 😫
I can relate to that fully.
I can relate too! In fact I was research cptsd when a video about women and autisim jumped into my youtube feed. Way way back (I am 56 now) a friend said "you are autistic" but that was the late 80s and women weren't being diagnosed with autsim. I figured it was a joke. But when I watched the video, I suddenly saw my early childhood experiences differently. Being different caused me to have experiences growing up that caused cptsd. Including the way my own family treated me. However, in early childhood, I wasn't treated cruely by my family, but my difference setting behaviors were all there. Suddenly, my life was starting to make sense!
It is also veryhard to see a beloved autistic child experience such trauma and knot having a clue of how to provide the right support. I developed callouses on my knees from sessions with God. Why did he so ill equip me with the required wisdom to rear my child better than I was able to... I am so relieved that information is becoming more available. Now it alsoneeds to become affordable too.
Even into adulthood I still experience bullying, it's just now Workplace bullying and often goes overlooked as most people quit instead of speaking up, not to mention HR being unhelpful for those who do speak up.
This usually always happened to me
I was in HR when a colleague bullied me.. I tried to report it.. then my HR boss fired me.. interesting.🧐 And we were 3 in the HR team. I might have autism but those other 2 are sociopaths. 1 is definitely, the boss was “only” an enabler, people-pleaser.
The medical community needs to advise parents to be assessed when their child is diagnosed with autsim. I know I'm autistic, my parent is autistic and so is my child. It's much harder for females especially adults to be diagnosed. We are dismissed because we mask a lot more. Tired of NTs pretending to be pro-autistics but angry when we are ourselves, direct.
ya'll not shooting up enough skeels to get help / media attention :(
@@sp123 You're right.
It’s always like they say they are inclusive but then we aren’t allowed to behave in our own way.
@@kendram60 it's because it's just propaganda to avoid dealing with rising costs of house ,increased poverty, ease the immigration process, atleast in canada our birth rates are too low so we rely on immigration.
Politicians just doing what they can to stay in power even if it's useless. Vaclav Havel wrote a book called The Power of The Powerless which talks alot about this meaningless inclusivity but in reference to communism and workers rights.
Check out the tale of the Greengrocer from his book, might sound familiar.
my wife is autistic and we just realized less than 2 years ago but same story, dismissed by family.
Trauma and autism have a lot of crossover symptoms. They are also not mutually exclusive. I have autism but no trauma, aside from being autistic in an allistic world. My husband has trauma, but a lot of his symptoms are very similar to mine. We work with kids with trauma and/or autism and there is a difference between symptoms caused by trauma only and those caused by autism and trauma, but generally the same techniques help in both autism and trauma.
Also, that book is excellent!
Would you mind sharing some of the differences you see, if it's not too intrusive? I don't think I have the patience to get through another book. Thank you in advance.
@@caramadra5 with our autistic kids, they rapidly improve when put in a safe and predictable environment that is autism friendly. I also tend to be able to communicate better with our autism kids and my husband has the same experience with trauma only kids. Like we can understand the ones most like us best. With trauma only kids, sometimes even a safe and predictable environment isn’t enough for healing or it can take years to see improvement.
@@sugoiharris1348 I see. Thank you, that makes sense. I appreciate you sharing. Kind regards.
Everyone have somekind of trauma. Only if dad WHO yell to child or lies to child or says that Will do something and Then dont do can cause a trauma. Of If child comes and want to tell mom something and mom says not now mom IS something Else to do. IT can Be very little thang that makes traumas...
@@EijaBerg5362 Look up trauma. Little things do not cause trauma. Little things can cause pain, ect. Trauma is a very specific thing.
The similarity around the need to feel safe is such an insightful point. Safety isn't just about physical safety, but existential and social safety. You've made a lot of profound points. Thank you :)
I am actually doing a trauma therapy at the moment (2 years after my ASD diagnosis) and it's almost impossible to disentangle whether it's autism AND complex PTSD or "just" complex PTSD after all. There are many people in my family who, to me, seem to be on the spectrum, but then again childhood trauma has been intergenerationally passed down. It is such an interesting question that I do not have an answer to yet. Was so happy to see your video on this, it really made me feel seen, I haven't heard anyone else talk about it yet :)
I think the topic is fascinating, too!
This is crazy. I was literally thinking this yesterday. The more and more self-assured I get, the more I think that I don't have autism after all. I have experienced a massive childhood trauma due to parental abuse and got diagnosed with autism. The reason I'm leaning more to PTSD is because of the self damaging aspect that I had. I'm definitely gonna see a psychiatrist with this question now
You may want to look into complex PTSD, it can present similarly to ADHD but is obviously caused by prolonged trauma.
Holographic kinetics is very successful with healing trauma, much more than mainstream nental health
As an autistic person who also has trauma, this was very helpful. I'm currently reading The Body Keeps the Score, but have not yet reached the part about developmental trauma. I am also currently in trauma therapy and we frequently discuss whether "it's trauma, the autism, or the adhd" or if it's all of the above (probably the most likely culprit in many cases). I have mostly come to accept that there's only so much untangling we can do (having not known about the 'tism, the adhd, or the trauma growing up and not really finding out until I was in my 40s or close) and that we are just working on healing what can be healed and then doing our best with the rest of it as far as coping mechanisms, tools, and requested accommodations. I'm thrilled that the field is learning more and more about all of this and I toggle back and forth between wishing I had known and being glad I didn't. I see how that could have gone two very different ways. But lastly: I did a massive laugh out loud at the reminder to not share the traumas here or anywhere else public/inappropriate. Over Sharers Unite!! Or rather . . .Over Sharers Please DO NOT Unite Here As It Is Not An Appropriate Place To Do So!!! Thank you for this video.
I have been struggling to get my ASD diagnosis because majority of specialist do not have the experience needed to work with ASD and CPTSD esp. for adults. I worked my butt of for 4 years to try to reduce and manage my PTSD so I could untangle it from my Autism. Like you say Paul once we begin recognizing our reactions and behaviour in our bodies we can start to understand where it's coming from. I'm only at the start, got some wind behind me but got long way still to go. I also have ADHD and PMDD. Everyday I'm on a spinning carousel and never know what I'm going to get. If you had to climb Mount Everest everyday...that's what it's like.✊💜
SO happy you covered this! I myself have to keep reminding me of this as I'm learning about my own mental state and I think this connection, overlap, or otherwise 'grey area-ness' of this topic are not covered very often!
Edit: Having watched this, I am pleased to see that I am, likely, on the right track then with my understanding. One thing I notice is that trauma and what 'counts' as traumatic for your body is pretty variable. And there's at least one theory that neurodivergent or otherwise 'unexpected' brains in this society-based world are especially vulnerable to having trauma happen to them, both by perpetrators and by their own mind's evaluation, whereas the same thing happening to an NT child or w/e likely would not. Possibly from social protection and sometimes just because of a difference in cognition. (And some NTs still would, because variability!)
I was diagnosed ADHD at 30 and I basically self-diagnosed before hand after tons of research and comparing myself to ADHD communities. I'm at the same point with Autism, and fully cannot BELIEVE how much I relate, specifically, to ADHD+ASD folks. (Purple Ella just made an amazing video about this!) It's proving to be harder to get a diagnoses or even seen about this, compared to ADHD, in the US because it's not 'big pharma approved' per se, and I live in a place with particularly poor medical care availability and basically zero specialists. And also a minimum of 5 hours away from any other large, or even medium, cities.
My #1 question I've had in life that was unanswered for SO long was this: Why was I simply NEVER interested in bonding? From there, my journey to do the same as I did w/ ADHD kicked in (Hooray hyperfocus and shifting my intense attention to this?) and I scoured the web for stories, papers, books, etc. I am relatively confident that the foundational answers to the foundational questions that still remained was autism.
This was a huge relief once I finally allowed myself to 'tentatively' self diagnose. I kind of assumed I had Avoidant Personality Disorder (and maybe did/do, or at least attachment style). But my issues began earlier than that is supposed to form. Not due to trauma, but due to my nature, I strongly do believe. I had thought maybe my parents as abusive, terrible, or otherwise traumatic in ways I was blind to before. And in some ways, they could be. Almost all parents are at some point.
But I finally have come to an understanding that my specific challenges, while more could have been done to help me as a relatively helpless child, were REALLY about how MY SPECIFIC BRAIN interfaced with the reality that was available back then. Getting yelled at is and can be traumatizing, but I was being scolded for misunderstood executive function issues. I was told to 'just' ask for help, yet felt extreme hesitation and uncertainty with how to even go about such a thing and I wouldn't verbalize it b/c I knew people were 'supposed to' be able to do that already. It turns out that my instructions to buckle down and try harder, as much as I thought I could do so, would basically never happen while my focus was not able to be applied the same way as my peers.
So I would try try try and fail fail fail. After years of this and with no other explanation, I can now understand why I was treated the way I was. It honestly makes sense, and I don't think my parents are some bad demons or anything. When I, objectively, analyze what they were seeing, I might even do the same with the knowledge they had! (Or didn't have!) They have grown as people even as I have grown, and they were, like all of us, just doing their best. (And by most NT standards, I was actually sheltered, lol)
I'm about 50% sure I have various, suspected neurodivergence on both sides of my family. A grandpa that was obsessed with building engines and my dad (his son) that has basically said before "I never think about how other people feel", as well as having a ton of ADHD red flags. My grandmother on my mom's side was well known (and made fun of...) for being hyper sensitive to sounds, smells and all that. I've always related to her in that way and felt bad people mocked it behind the scenes. And my own mother, after going down a path of trying to understand schizoid, depression, or other social issues, I finally realized, had a lot of the same behaviors I do now as an adult: Generally in her own world, often 'spacing' out or thinking, and other similar ASD traits. IDK if anyone would be diagnosed in my family, much like myself, but once I knew what to look for, I could see 'evidence' of what I suspected about myself almost everywhere. And I have to imagine there's TONS of people out there asking questions about themselves and overlooking the types of things I did as well. All the males in my family even have the 'big head' morph that research has recently associated with autism!
I know I would be on the aspie-end, and sometimes wonder if I had to go into overdrive to try to blend in since I also grew up in a rural area where help for this kind of thing, in the 90's, was a literal joke I heard many times. But when I go as far back as I can, via stories and memory, I always relate to the autistic experience. I was very 'independent' as child, and rarely cried or sought help. (I've heard about how 'easy' of a kid I was many, many times) I felt like I had to study other people well into my teens to try to understand how to act, and did indeed always, always ALWAYS feel like an act. During group events, I stuck to the wall. I was called shy, quiet, etc. But it was always more than that to me. I had seen the shy and quiet kids who were not like me. They seemed to be scared, but I was deeply, deeply confused. I now realize, after pulling up old memories, that I was TRYING to form a script but just simply couldn't because A) Physical activity (Dancing, moving between groups, etc) was a part of it and B) There were too many variables and confusing messes going on to enter. I had no idea what, how, or when to do anything related to those kinds of school events. Not even a hint on how to start yet was told "just do it" and simply found that I couldn't. I had no way to verbalize this as a kid besides "I don't wanna".
Humans have been baffling me for 30 years. In the last few, I've REALLY gotten into psychology and I strongly feel like this helped me in life more than anything else. I now have working models for human behavior and do indeed feel like I'm starting to understand other people and myself. Not too unlike Paul here with EQ learning. It's almost ALLLLLL cognitive empathy and systems thinking, I am coming to realize!
The TLDR is that this is a great video, and I hope that not only is this spoken about more, but I look forward to one day reading a book about this similar to 'your body keeps the score', at a time when we have a better understanding of what autism and other divergence even IS. And I know that somewhere, some little kid will be like me, and find that book or YT video or article and not have to go 30+ years thinking they were broken, wrong, or just fundamentally beyond help or understanding. Think about how many 50-60+ year olds are getting diagnosed these days and saying the same things about people in MY age group! We're making progress!
I am not bitter that it took so long, I'm joyous that I was one of the humans who went on the journey so that I can relay the importance of understanding, at least in this little corner of reality and history.
Great comment too! Your analysis on your behavior as a child really helped untangle how I understood mine (which was a jumbled mess of clear and blurry until now).
You are not alone 💛 Thank you for writing this comment.
This video was wonderfully expansive and thoughtful and I very much appreciated it.
You probably already have, but anyone else reading this if you are interested in extra resources on YT for getting to know yourself better in these areas, off the top of my head I can suggest : Tony Attwood, Alain De Botton, more of Bessel Van Der Kolk, Sarah Hendrickx, Gabor Matè, of course Purple Ella… Please feel free to add & share your favourites with us 😊
I’ve been interested in the trauma aspect for many years as it was repeatedly suggested to me that I had trauma to resolve. I feel that the trauma therapies are very important for many of us with ASD. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that trauma informed therapists are little help unless they are ASD informed as well. Unravelling trauma for someone with ASD can be a very different process, and one that I am still discovering. Paul makes the critical point that everything depends on the capacity for the physical body to be in state of safety. Recently I enrolled online with the The Centre for Healing trauma course. This education made it very clear to me that everything depends upon and there can be no resolution of trauma without ’resources’, i.e. things that engender safety. And this is where I hit a wall. My body seems to be on high alert, even during sleep. It has occurred that I have experienced safety in rare and non reproducible circumstances. Something else I learned from my trauma research is that self- regulation comes out of co-regulation. i.e. we must learn to be safe with others firstly, it is a myth that true safety can come from retreating to be alone…yet that was my (understandable) lifelong habit. Trauma Geek says more on this
"Unravelling trauma for someone with ASD can be a very different process, and one that I am still discovering." Yes! i wrote something very similar here.
Yep! If we’re social creatures, it only makes sense that there are things that can’t be achieved alone.
Very helpful comment. Thank you. I imagine my therapeut reading and nodding "yes a conumdrum. nearly impossible" Imagine my worse Trauma is my mother bullying me bc "I am crazy". How on earth could he say to me "... You have a real neurological issue . Let do a test by a psychiatrist? My mother could be right ? Better die.
Just this trap is what i can't pardon my mother.
When something is not named ASD, it is difficult to deal with it in a trauma therapy method.
Being physically withdrawn, and easily drifting from awkward conversation are often perceived as PTSD. These behaviors can arise even when the interaction is enjoyed. These reactions go far beyond simple 'shyness'.
I always questioned myself if I'm autistic because of a trauma or if I've had a trauma because I'm autistic.
And what about a physical trauma while pregnancy or around birth aka Hypoxämie (disfunctional plazenta, strangulation by umbilical cord)? Well it is the first trauma in a row for this condition at least - huuh - for some cases including mine.
You are born Autistic
@@wernerhiemer406 that happened to you, that physical trauma? I'm so sorry. You could also have emotional trauma as well.
You helped me immensely with your channel. I want to do a similar thing with music and how it's helped me cope...but I still struggle and today is one of those days. Keep spreading awareness and understanding to both sides.
Learning about CPTSD and autism has helped me find my tribe. Endlessly looking to professionals to help me sort my inner life was pointless, but I have learned so much on the channel. Thank you.
As I'm navigating a possible autism diagnosis, I've found your videos quite helpful and relatable. When I first realized I might be autistic, it was actually a relief. It meant that experiences I'd had weren't traumatic; they could be misunderstandings. Given my age and childhood situation, those are pretty easy to forgive without feeling like I'm ingenuous or a pushover. I don't know if I'll be diagnosed autistic, but just the possibility and the exploration of that possibility has been so good.
I am excited to see the video. It is precisely the link between autism and trauma that is keeping me busy at the moment.
I'm in trauma therapy and the therapist tells me that she thinks I'm not autistic, that it's all trauma.
I think I am autistic and I have trauma. But I recently started watching "How to ADHD" and it looks like I might have Attention Deficit Disorder (inattentive). Anyway, right now I have a lot of confusion in my head.
I'll wait anxiously for the video to see what you say.
Thank you very much, Paul. Your channel helps me a lot.
ADHD and Autism overlap a lot also.
Yup. I think I have both.
Don’t let people strip away your diagnosis autism is real
You should really refrain from self-diagnosing. Also, unless your therapist is also a psychiatrist, then what she "thinks" you might have doesn't really matter. I would really like to encourage you to go find a psychiatrist and get a professional opinion from an actual doctor rather than a therapist.
Just a thought, it may be very useful to self-diagnose, aka self-identify, so that you know precisely what behaviors and experiences to tell a psychiatrist about. Some psychiatrists may be very difficult to communicate with because they may make many assumptions about how things must look, instead of understanding the underlying cause of the behaviors and experiences. This probably is true whether you're autistic or not, but I believe it's even more true if you are autistic and have a neurotypical psychiatrist.
A neurotypical psychiatrist might base some judgment on your persona, but as an autistic person, you may not have one, or may not see personas or feel them or interpret them the way neurotypical people do.
Thank you for explaining the difference between trauma and autism since your other video that looked at the difference between trauma and PTSD. Letting my guard down is something I realized after many months of therapy and was also advised about at work, although I resigned from my job because I found it difficult to connect with others and had other cognitive issues. Anyway as a result of learning to let my guard down by simply saying hello to others has opened up a wonderful new world for me. I realize the world isn't such a bad place after all, although it's still not perfect, depending on the environment. I also absolutely relate to what you say about our need of finding environments where we feel comfortable within. For me, it's nature and low sensory environments that comfort me.
Another book on Polyvagal theory is “Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Communication” by Deb Dana. It’s not heavy at all, it explains it fairly simply, and has exercises to help you ‘tune in’ to your body better and learn to regulate yourself, as well as suggestions on activities that help you re-regulate during those dorsal (freeze), sympathetic (fight/flight), and to return to the ventral state (equilibrium/calm/safe/open). It gets a little (to me, anyway) goofy, lol not sure of the word I mean, but she takes about ’glimmers’ and ‘glowing’ expressions, and I find it sort of silly. But, the point is still sound, so I excused the terms. Otherwise I found it made a lot of sense. It does refer to trauma, not autism, but since the body response is basically the same, I do think it has a lot of merit and can be really useful.
Great program on a very serious and relevant subject for many of us. Trauma is definitely part of our experience, and it may exacerbate our autism, but trauma doesn't give us the unusual interests (and sometimes abilities) that some of us display...and that sometimes are the cause of some of the trauma from our peers.
If the current awareness and support were available when I was a child a diagnosis might have helped. I may have been diagnosed when I was taken to a psychologist around the time I first began school, but I was never told what the visit was for and was always treated as an alien within my own family. So at 65 I don't have a formal diagnosis, and it would not have been revealed or discussed if I had been. When I have seen psychologists as an adult, trauma very quickly becomes the focus. It was only after several years of research and self assessment that I was able to determine that my autistic traits were apparent in early childhood. Trauma began at nearly the same point, with some in infancy that was related to my (autistic) traits and behaviors. I live fairly content as a recluse now. The outside world and people can be too overwhelming and I feel much better avoiding all of it.
How are you able to support yourself? Asking for a friend.
@@unknowntosociety01 when I did work I had made sure that if things got bad I'd have somewhere to live, and have learned to live very frugally. But even so I'm struggling to stay afloat now. Had I understood earlier, I might have pursued some form of disability or just accommodated myself better in employment. Because I really had a hard time on my own when I was young. But they were different times, and I was driven by shame and a desire to prove I could succeed. But I pushed too hard, for too long, and have been in a state of prolonged burnout and scraping by for over a decade. I only recently learned that's what's going on with me. So armed with knowledge I'm more hopeful. I'm going to have to pursue some kind of self employment beyond what I'm already doing (farming). But understanding I'm autistic helps. I know I can't function in a conventional job, it inevitably devolves into an overwhelming situation. I've never been able to last a year, but for a while I left for a "better" job every time (it's complicated). There are ways to promote and market now that don't require a lot of socializing, or any (lol).
I've lived thru the times you did. I think being end of boomer along with Afermative Action hitting, caused alot of struggle. Finding the job then it's gets more competition, then pay goes way down. Sky high interest made expenses very high. That combo along with secure jobs being a thing of the past. I've figured things out, finally. That's what I thought, then my marriage ended because Entitlement rewarded. It is a complete no win, no way to win. Had the world in palm of hands, luck & planning/thinking & plain old hard work, got it. But again it's taken. Managed to survive thru with much help from a Lady Lawyer. I'm kinda getting footing again. Clearing my thoughts, letting go, that's 80% of my problem. I attached, it was "we". I hope you didn't struggle as hard. My dad left, I was 13. So that compounded life's struggle. But I was different before it all hit, always overthinking. Always guarding. Always took things hard. Always couldn't do Convo/ small talk.
@@petemorton8403 @Pete morton Complete carnage and struggle. My wife left, the last thing she talked about was our endless struggles. Which began in childhood for each of us. I went from "success" to barely being able to leave the house. Her too. The current awareness and understanding might have helped, even now I'm beginning to accommodate myself. Instead of setting myself up with (unrealistic) expectations that guarantee chaos. We tried very hard to find support, but it never occurred to any of the mental health "professionals" that we were both autistic. That's something I figured out in the process of trying to understand her suicide. All the traits and indications were there, but trauma and depression always became the focus. They were looking at the symptoms, instead of the root cause. I'm glad you're creating a way to manage your life, it's harder than it needs to be. But easier since I've accepted that I need to respect who I am, instead of exhausting myself trying to be someone I'm not.
Been at the death is less pain point many times. She tried complete distraction of the family. Luck had my kids stay. We're spared the nonsense BS. She's 8 yrs of "won't pay" the ordered kid money, this after cleaning out the banks & distroying my business/ life's work. The house I put so much labor into remains mine. Took years to get that quit claim signature, but finally. She took a few rental houses I'd built, they were like new. I think she saw how like clockwork I had them running. Many years, then she must have thought she can do it, it looks so easy. Hard to look at them now. Disaster kinda puts it mildly. Supposed to gift them to kids after using them for monthly money to live on. The trauma is all legal, no big thang. I've asked myself why robbing banks is wrong, if this isn't. This is much worse. I guess police would need to 10 fold increase if distroying family and taking another's life's work was turned into a crime. I'd sure say it's a crime. I'm both trauma, many times, and something else yet unexplained. Alone is another uncomfortable life event.
Thank you so much for your content. Figuring myself out later in life and this has helped me greatly understand myself more, deal with stress better, and get better work done. Truly thank you. Amazing content. You deliver the information clearly and concisely.
Wow how old are you when you diagnosed yourself
@@conisalgado1294 Around 30. It put so much hardship and confusion I've had in my life into perspective, and greatly helped me understand myself more, and what my strengths are. So grateful for this guys channel and message.
I just can't believe you added this video today! Just 3 days ago, my psychiatrist diagnosed me with PTSD. Since then I've been researching the correlation between ASD and PTSD. Thank you!
Besides fight, flight and freeze, the fourth response is 'fawn', and that is a very useful thing to Google, especially for those of us who mask a lot.
I have autism and adhd, and most of my trauma is around the latter (academically interested kid failing at "the only thing I was good at" because I wasn't allowed to commit to other interests because "school comes first"). The autism - at that point undignosed - I think actually helped me, because I was *so* different that it forced grownups to actually look at my individual needs. It's what ended up getting me into college early, which saved me from a school system that was not equipped to handle me, despite having very competent teachers.
Of course, the autism also left me completely isolated from new social relationships with peers, until fairly late in my adolescence. And that can't have been helpful. Especially now that I am able to be quite social and know what the alternative must have been, it's a little heartbreaking.
This is very interesting because recently Ive been trying to work out whether I have autistic traits or whether I have CPTSD from childhood or both. I really dont know but I have considered that I have mild (if thats the term) Asperger's and then I went though a tough time and reacted more to it because of how my brain works. But then on the other hand Im doing alot better recently and I know Autism is permanent. But them on the OTHER hand, Im in my 40s and would like to think I have gained a few more social skills and confidence by now. Its not that easy to work it all out 😕
I could have written this Karen, I’m in exactly the same boat. 😊
I am 62 and wonder the same
Mental health professionals have a long way to go on this topic, especially with autistic women. The tendency is to provide a trauma cause of behavior and not see the autism. The pattern of “help” with this mistaken diagnosis causes trauma because it sources our behavior to something external to us. When our behavior is actually sourced from things internal to us.
My counsellor diagnosed me with PTSD, because there was a lot of trauma, but AFAICT he didn't consider an ASD diagnosis, which would have not only helped me overall, but changed the way the combination was treated. Hint: CBT is not good for many of us with ASD.
On another note, I have enormous sympathy for people around me who I would lay money are on the spectrum, but are not aware of it, and who have been traumatised in the workplace by an environment or managers hostile to those with ASD. I have seen this first hand.
My ASD husband would argue that from his perspective CBT was his biggest help (via reframing). Obviously however therapists differ greatly. He was diagnosed at age 50.
I'm currently studying a diploma of counselling and in class we have gone through polyphagal theory. This has helped me with understanding how to be a counsellor and my autism in a greater way.
I often don't think before I speak 😳
People are born with autism but I think if it is relatively noticeable becoming traumatized is common. I remember having so much interest and curiosity towards others but a few childhood interactions that felt like getting punched in the face and I've lived most of my life numb and withdrawn.
when I see blood or any traumatic event that involves physical harm I immediately go into shock in about ten seconds. I feel as though my brain is analyzing their distress and trauma and just adopts it as it's own experience.
As always, your timing is impeccable! I was just thinking about safety/feeling “safe.” I drew the same conclusions about the necessity of vulnerability for proper/usual interactions. Thanks for the video!
This was really helpful! My naturopath actually recommended that book and I've had it on hold at the library. I really appreciate your warning, because they didn't tell me it was full of trauma! I have PTSD and autism, which made getting a diagnosis very difficult. My therapist wasn't sure if it was "just" trauma or not. I am glad I got a diagnosis, so I know it's both.
Learning about how being autistic impacts my life has been incredibly helpful for me. It helps me understand myself and how I can function more successfully in this world and why I have had such difficulties.
Safety is so key! My husband is the first partner I've felt safe with and we have open, flowing communication that is healthy. Even when we are upset we can communicate without hurting each other.
This is very interesting. I have Autism and C-PTSD.
Very enlightening.
Keep up making such great videos.
thanks, I'm finding your videos are really helping me understand my autism better.
Paul you're brilliant. Thanks for connecting the dots!
So frustrating. As an adult the PhD literally said that it would be impossible to truly tell if it's just my PTSD or if I am autistic. The medical community needs to do better for autistic adults. It was much easier to get my child diagnosed.
What do you want them to do? Several of the symptoms are very similar. Also if you went to a regular general or family medicine physician instead of a psychiatrist, you're not going to get the help you need.
@@benjamin3615 I wrote PhD. Obviously it wasn't a PCP.
@@caramadra5 You did write PhD, so that means you didn't go to an actual psychiatrist and you're surprised they told you that?
@@benjamin3615 It's always PhD's that do the assessments here. They've all been PhD's for my son as well. Psychiatrists manage the meds. Don't attempt to gaslight me. You referred to a Primary Care. You need help for your personality disorder, it's not autsim, that's for sure. Thanks Amber.
A very interesting video again Paul. I am unpicking my trauma from my autism at the moment with a psychologist. The difficult bit is getting those around me to understand what's going on for me.
Thank you. This makes a lot of sense to me and explains why I have reacted so badly (over reacted) in some circumstances. It is true that in all of those occasions that I can think of I actually felt unsafe even threatened.
*"I think it's really, really important that more therapists train with a dual specialism in Autism and C-PTSD since there is such a notable crossover between the two. There's a great need for models and expertise from both fields to be combined, and especially to incorporate the experiences and wisdom of people who are diagnosed with both, as we can give vital insight into the complexities of this 'grey area' which simply cannot be gleaned through external observation."* - As a future therapist currently seeking a book deal for my memoir, THANK YOU for this! I'll do my best to delve deeply into both of these specialties here in Canada.
Some people can have both conditions. I have complex developmental PTSD from early childhood trauma and Aspergers highly functioning autism. I'm sailing through life relying on my Mensa IQ, constant masking, learning social skills and waiting for a breakthrough brain calibration remedy.
Great video!
3:00 Developmental trauma
*Pervasive pattern of dysregulation
*Problems with attention and concentration
*Difficulties in getting along with self and with others
This is a terrific channel. If anyone knows of any support groups for people on spectrum please let me know. I've gotten by this far in life by working really hard and sticking to work related stuff but it would be nice to know some people who might have a similar way of experiencing the world.
I'm relieved and reassured that your Autism channel is covering the subject of trauma and Autism! I've not seen this covered anywhere else on YT (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Here's why:
I was not only late-diagnosed with ASD/AS/ADHD but the specialist who diagnosed me also factored in complex PTSD (cPTSD), depression, anxiety etc.
Thank you.
I went through a time where I wondered if I might be autistic because some of the presentation is similar to what I experience with social anxiety. It was because of searching for information that I got interested in learning about Autism/Aspergers (ADHD interests me too). I have experiences in common such as; great difficulty with eye contact, always felt like the odd one out, not being able to connect with people (mostly). But there's just too much about Autism that doesn't happen with me at all. I understand what I'm meant to do socially (usually 😏), and I feel bad when I can't bring myself to do it. I'm always concerned about what people are thinking about me. I gather that's quite uncommon with Autism.
You're dead right about needing to feel safe. I do _not_ feel safe socially. It stands to reason that difficulty with social interaction would feature so heavily when a social animal has a spanner thrown in the works.
Very helpful. Thanks! I've listened to some commentary by Bessel van der Kolk online, so was able to tune into what you're saying here. I haven't read the book though, so thanks for the summary.
He recently participated in an online program of trauma experts called "The Wisdom of Trauma" that was headed up by Gabor Mate and included Stephen Porges. There is a movie by the same name that I think has important things to say to and about both groups and their similar struggles.
Polyvagal theory has been a game changer for me. Would recommend Deb Dana (or even Stephen Porges for the more scientifically inclined). There's also a great podcast on the polyvagal theory, called Stuck Not Broken, which is where I originally heard about it.
I am 62 and just diagnosed as autistic. I always thought that everything I was dealing with was because of PTSD and cptsd. Wasn't until an extreme traumatic event I may be coming homeless, and vehicle broke down, and having to move in with so many different people that I started realizing there's something else going on. Why aren't people understanding me and why can't I communicate like they do. The mask was coming off that I put on since childhood that I never realized I had
Definitely interested in this...when I brought up thinking I was on the spectrum to a therapist, she said she thinks it's trauma and c-ptsd. Does everyone with C-ptsd stim?
No. Also many autistic people with c-ptsd don't stim because part of the major autistic trauma comes from masking and stim supression... And whatever means people make us stop stimming-
I think ccptsd, assburgers, struggle talking but loving the contact, then the overthinking afterwards. Wanting to be normal
I have CPTSD...and ASD. They are not exclusive, but having both makes diagnosis difficult and you need a specialist experienced in both. And those are seemingly almost as rare as fairy dust. 💜
My therapist said this to me as well.
Can you remember asd characteristics when you were a kid? Before the trauma may have happened? Ppl are born with ASD so some signs would be there before the ptsd
Trying to feel safe. My life in a nutshell.
Amazing video. Thanks so much from a therapist!
I think in some cases the autism often contributes towards the trauma. And then the trauma causes autism symptoms which causes more trauma which causes worse autism which causes more trauma and so on and so fourth. Especially with people who are undiagnosed
looking forward to the video when i wake up for work.
QUESTION: can you do a video on how to mask less? even just to family.ive realized how much of a coping mechanism it is, and not in a good way. its more of an instinct or a flinch. i like to smile sometimes, at work i will smile at people so they think im happy inside, i dont want to be seen as the grumpy depressed person i am to myself. but i find myself smiling and doing things for family who take advantage of my agreeableness and i never feel heard or listened to. why do i find it hard to be myself? its like i cant trust anyone, but im very trusting and get taken advantage of for that, im too open about things. i think ive always had aspbergers but the major traumas in my life made me unable to trust people on a mutual respect level, i trust people completely, but never gain anybody elses trust because im too easy, i must have a motive, thats the only explanation i have. im so alone :( undiagnosed 31, perth. grew up in a small outback town.
I was recently diagnosed with ASD and I can relate to this. Currently struggling with how alone I can often feel, even when surrounded by family n friends. I don't even know how to ask for help anymore because I just forever feel like a burden. Trauma from being bullied and taken advantage of added to my hyper vigilant mind can be torture. Spent 11 years as a severe opiate addict, I'm now 36 and been off opiates for about 5 years now...some days are better than others, some are harsh...today is one of those harsh days
Great subject
The scary thing for me is that doing grounding based trauma therapies during a terrible time in my life, led to me being able to notice context and tone and meaning in verbal communication from others and even of my own, very clearly for the first time in my life. It was like getting glasses, glasses that scared me to be honest. The more I did these techniques I was able to notice more and more social ques. I had not lived like this and it was like a super power to me and I felt "normal" for the first time in my life or like I could FINALLY understand how people understood social things. But it was a lot to maintain. It took a painful inner work and awareness of others as regular consistent work - and active empathy, and grounding through this. It was not my default and I wonder if for NTs this is more effortless, but also on a spectrum just like Autism. Also it wasn't sustainable for me because of the amount of effort and made me seek out supports for my autism as a result.
I'm really grateful for this topic being discussed for the reason of my own personal experience.
Would be interested in hearing what about it was scary and what you noticed.
and a lot of Autistic People have trauma FROM navigating this planet with Autism and how we have been treated by the world that is not friendly to the neurodiverse
Definitely just bought that book.
I perceive we may be more vulnerable to "existential slaps", in more than corporeal concerns. It's a term coined when folks realize that their demise is imminent. "Aspie's" I contend are susceptible to intimacy slaps, recurring social slaps too. I think it's a blessing and a curse that our "depth perception" is much more attuned, while surface behaviors go unnoticed...
I'm finding this reeeeaaally interesting and helpful. I've been diagnosed with complex ptsd a few years prior, still going to therapy now, and i've been struggling a lot to figure out if i might be on the spectrum or not because there are so many things used as diagnose criteria for autism which can easily be due to my trauma.
Still scared to ask my therapist to maybe check me on autism, but i think this video helped me to get the courage now.
Spent a lot of money on therapist and nothing has worked as well as talking to an autistic coach. It’s help me understand I’m not alone in the way I think different and is giving me the tools to face the trauma that have come my way.
I identify as an autistic alcoholic who was scared of catching Asperger when I was a teenager. In recovery I’ve learned the only cure for an alcoholic is a support system that keeps me from the first drink. In Autism I believe it’s finding a support system that gives me room to be me in world that doesn’t, as they beg everyone to be the true you.
This is so my life. I can't untangle these as they even feel the sameook the same... I think a lot of the things which help may also be the same? At least, counseling both helps - is best! But, you said it better.
Autism is a beautiful human with special abilities, I learned to live in their world . You are so amazing and I thank you for this platform. I understand all your videos and you have helped us understand our children's world in such a great way, thank you.
I have a question? Do you know about Entomophobia and Autism?
Did anyone have a ptsd AND autism diagnosis? My therapist can’t see past my trauma. In Fairness my cptsd trauma is substantial.
Your video explanations have been so helpful in understanding myself and my relationships.
I've gone back and forth thinking I have one, then the other. At this point in my life (and this may change someday), I've just decided to relinquish both labels. For me, that makes it easier to keep an open mind about why I may have certain traits, where they might come from, and whether I conclude that it's something I can work to "heal" from or whether it's enough of a "part" of me where I want to fight for people/society to accommodate my differences. It's like....not labeling myself helps me reflect on myself a little more loosely and even "creatively" if that makes sense.
I think the downside of rejecting those labels, though, is that labels are sometimes helpful in forming solidarity with people experiencing similar things to you, and coming together to fight the political fights around accessibility! so idk, tradeoffs.
Good teaching showing non neuro respnse vs trauma
That makes so sense to me ! 😃
I'm looking for a traumatherapist anyway, but I feel like I need a lot of "security" even though situations are not (yet) related to Trauma. Just a very few number of people understand it.
Thanks for your Videos! 😃 Greetings from germany 😊
Thank you for this video and discussion! I wondered this too when I read the book.
ketamine infusions have absolutely changed my life. I have a whole different outlook and understanding of other people thanks to it
I was traumatized at the age of 2 and I present EXACTLY like an autistic person. Everyone treated me different. My upbringing definitely seemed like the "autistic experience".
We are too genuine for NTs.
I find that my autistic special interests are very helpful when it comes to entering into potentially traumatic situations.
I just have CPTSD with ADHD and OCD and I can relate a lot of those on the spectrum when I’m not actually autistic. 1. I stim such as hand flapping and rock and even have obsessive repetitive interests just like those with Autism, 2. I prefer to be alone and not have many friends and 3. I have sensory deprivation which means I like blasting loud music and an obsession with it when I was younger I was over sensitive to when I was younger. These are a lot of similarities and that’s the common reason why we are misdiagnosed either way around.
yeah , this , very few people i meet dont try to use me , im enthusiastic and driven , but at times naïve , im so tired of being used man , its getting old now (and so am i )
Autism is a cluster of symptoms all pointing towards metabolic dysregulation, which can indeed be caused by trauma.
For emotionally sensible children, having a narcissistic parent that is enable to give them proper emotional support can lead to C-PTSD and cognitive impairments. I know that's what happened to me, at the very least...
Yep me too and I show up as autistic on every test but have been diagnosed with Complex PTSD, narc mother, absent father, absolutely zero stability growing up but there were definitely signs of neurodivergence from the start so I suspect it’s a bit of both!
Thank you so much. This is exactly what I needed right now
Being in the autistic spectrum can or mostly is an traumatizing experience especially if you do not fit in your family and peers.
Many Asperger people seem NOT to be interested in paying closer attention to a process, but have a strong focus on getting the result. This type of personality is much appreciated in the corporate world, but when it comes down to the human relationship, especially with Intimate relationships, Asperger people seem to experience a great struggle, because of their propensity to hyper focus on the result while missing paying attention to the process. This could lead people to feel Asperger people being "lack of empathy" and "lack of compassion." In this regime, I'd like to learn how I could support my son with Asperger's to have his happy love life with his partner, family, and community in future.. Any advice is much appreciate
It's certainly normal to have both. Looking at my own family, I noticed that ASD will increase the sensitivity and therefore reactivity of the nervous system so they will have a much more intense experience of the trauma compared to a neurotypical person. Personally I came across Bessel's book and have used its bottom-up approach for my own wellbeing. Not everything recommended will work of course. There are also tips that I learned else where: 1) Breathing out in two quick successions to reduce anxiety. 2) Placing your right hand under your arm pit so you hug yourself to feel safe.
Hi folks - fellow Aspie here, and abuse survivor (lots of us are). I didn't know that for decades, but finding out the real situation was tantamount to discovering a new continent. One thing I've felt on and off from the time I was very little (like 3 little) is that I'm not real, I'm not here. I don't know what this all is. But it's not real. I still feel like that sometimes, when I think about it. Anyone else?
Edit: the "disassociated" feeling may originate from abuse - lots of us suffer that because some people see our inability to defend ourselves (when young) and pounce. I've been angry for decades.
There is actually a lot of research out there on the brain and trauma. I went looking for it after watching your other trauma/ autism video. (I'm an autistic counseling grad student.) Apparently, the autistic brain is not only more prone to experiencing events as trauma, due to hyper-functioning with sensory perception, emotions, etc., but it's also more prone to storing memories as trauma due to hyper-functioning of memory. Add to that the fact that autistic people are more likely to experience significant trauma, and I definitely think all therapists treating autistic people should be trained in trauma treatments. For me, it was helpful to realize that this is another way my brain is actually wired differently.
It's trauma at an early age, when the brain is not fully developed, which disrupts the developmental path and gives rise to effects differing from the ones arising in a fully developed brain undergoing psychological trauma.
I’m undiagnosed and having trouble convincing my family , this is becoming impossible they refuse to even have the conversation. What do I do
Yes
About sharing traumatic experiences on the public forum or in casual conversation. When I was growing up I didn't get the difference between light conversation and mentioning my trauma, because both were normal life for me. I did't get that most people didn't experience the same things I experienced. I didn't know then that a therapist was even an option for me. I didn't cry or talk for hours abot it, just mention it emotionless in a conversation. People reactions were silence or changing the topic. They didn't want to hear me out and I still feel hurt by this. Now still I don't really get why people don't want to hear traumatic stuff (except for people that get triggered by it, that I get) and react wierd, even if I don't cry in front of them. I just want to feel accepted and talk freely about myself and my life and don't have to lie all the time (I hate lying).
In my opinion and my own experience it is. Most of the autism symptoms can be explained by a nervous system that is in a constant state of freeze. A human being in a constant state of threat will have of course problems to relate to other humans.. I was surprised to get to know myself in a very different way once I got out of this state.
The freeze response is the earliest and only threat response that is available for a baby in the first few months. We might not be able to remember our trauma. But our body does. And if I meet my mother these days after all those years of therapy it's not so difficult for me to see what could have gone wrong. I mean she basically doesn't feel her body and her feelings much at all.
My feeling is that my kids were affected by my pre eclampsia during pregnancy....I have two possibly 3 kids on the spectrum. Pre eclampsia in all 3 pregnancies. (Plus multiple miscarriages), my kids are so beautiful and I wouldn't have them any way other than who they are. I just can't help but feel sad that maybe my health problems caused them any difficulties 😪 I also have autoimmune issues such as Graves Disease and Anti Phospholipid Syndrome