The Bible Says It Is True
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Debunking biblical claims
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 27.34 for August 27, 2023 with Forest Valkai, JMike, and Johnny P. Angel!
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I don't have faith in science. I don't believe in science. I don't have to. Because I UNDERSTAND science.
Well said🔥
You are lying to claim you don't have faith in science. You certainly do. Unless you can prove a scientific consensus, you hold that consensus on faith.
Atheism is a mindless faith, held without evidence. Science deals in hypothesis to infer the best explanation of evidence. Same for theism. Atheism doens't.
@@JimCastleberry So you don't know what atheism means, and you have no idea how science works...
That's 2 for 2 son. ;)
@@JimCastleberry Right, now I am curious!
What is the methodology of science?
Jim?
Would you care to share it with us?
Please! LOL
We have penticostal relatives they often tear down science if it's not in line with the bible I'm in the medical profession I reminded them when their daughter was hospitalised that science saved her life .
What I like most about science is it doesn't threaten me if I say it's wrong
@@mastermonkey1134 science improves it's understanding, religion does not, it's supposed to be final and therefore has no need for improvement. The journey of science is making mistakes. I know you knew this before making such an idiotic statement.
@@mastermonkey1134
Science is progressive.
Religion is regressive.
Nor does the religion of Jesus Christ.
@@ianalan4367
How is "love me or be tortured for an eternity" not a threat?
Rob-fc9wg - If that was the proclamation I suppose it would be a threat. That is not the proclamation though.
Look up a short article on line titled “Is Hell Real by Stephan Freeman” if you would like a better understanding of what Christianity has always proclaimed in the subject. It is in stark contrast to Kristi’s personal view that is based upon nothing more than her own imagination and the extremest evangelical Church she comes from.
I honestly don't know how anyone can watch this show for several years, and not have serious doubts about being a theist
I can easily say I don’t believe in the god this show portrays. I can also claim that I believe there is a God. This show only discredits their own depiction of god.
@@ianalan4367 well, the point of whole atheism is that until evidence presents, we dont believe in god. Since no god has any proof, therefore for now, we should not have preconceived notions about his existence
@@ianalan4367
Great, another preacher of "Whatifism".
if it has financial benefits , it will continue
@@ianalan4367 That depends on the religion or the theist they're disputing against, but, typically the theists that call in are Christian, so, they question the Judeo-Christian god more predominantly. Assuming you believe in the Biblical god, then, the Bible is usually where they're sourcing their information from when they "depict" your god. Are you basically telling us you haven't read your own bible to know this, or are you saying that you define god in your own personal way, regardless of the depiction in the bible, and you're disagreeing with how they depict him from said book? If the latter, well, then you should be on their side, because the Bible depicts god in pretty horrendous ways, and they merely point it out. The reasons they criticize the god of the bible in this show is because of the actions of said god depicted within the source material, not some made-up strawman you seem to suggest.
The actions of your god within the bible are atrocious and immoral, and it influences believers to think some of these actions are justifiable in the real world, so long as god ordains it, such as misogyny, slavery, genocide or xenophobia, to name a few. Belief influences actions, and actions have consequences, so, when your god displays horrible acts and archaic harmful ways of thinking within a book claiming to be the "word of god", it makes otherwise good and sane people act horrible and insane. This show, and shows like it, are here to inform, to encourage questioning everything, and to fight against harmful influence of religious thinking. If your god is the Christian god, then the depiction they dispute is that which is depicted in the bible.
I used to walk around singing The Bible Tells Me So when i was a kid. It wasn’t the library books indoctrinating me.
Whenever I hear that song now, I think of Splicers and Bioshock.
@@Alacritous Oh bioshock, I remember what you're talking about!
@@Alacritous I think the song is sang in a twisted, broken voice in the credits of The Binding of Issac.
When I was a kid I used to believe gender fairies would switch the brains of little boys and little girls
i still sing hymns to this day. The indoctrination is quite thorough.
Watching JMike is like watching Jesus talk about Jesus in the third person.
😂😂
Hard to believe this guy has watched these shows and still answers a question with a question.
Callers say they have been fans of the show for years, then seem confused when asked “what do you believe & why do you believe it.” That is asked of every theist caller, how are they not expecting this?
@@LOwens-xf8yoBecause they are a big fat liar.
@LOwens-xf8yo Yes, you are fertilizing facts!!! 💪😁 Your money is in the bag 💰Bravo 👏 👏 👏 Additionally, if you wish to explore my content, take a gander at my comment which was made in response to The Infographics Show's video on Jesus' resurrection. My comment is categorized under the "newest" portion of that video's comment section.
@averagebesr5889 Yes, you are fertilizing facts!!! 💪😁 Your money is in the bag 💰Bravo 👏 👏 👏 Your username is delightful. Additionally, if you wish to explore my content, take a gander at my comment which was made in response to The Infographics Show's video on Jesus' resurrection. My comment is categorized under the "newest" portion of that video's comment section.
The Harry Potter books are more moral than the bible
I was going to write that! The difference between the Good folk and the Bad folk is much clearer. But if you haven't read "The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul" _the title's a parody of "The Dark Night of the Soul" by one Saint John of the Cross._ I recommend you watch for it. A huge explosion in an airport ends up in the official mind as "an act of God". The book later reveals that the God who caused it is Thor, who is furious with Odin his father, and impatient with airport fussiness. It's by Douglas Adams.
Well, I disagree. Actually, Harry Potter is a fictional flim fantasy movie. So I would rather prefer the old books, the Bible then, why because it has facts, morals, ethics, and even words on it that make sense, even in day to day life. it is relevant and shocking impressive at the same time. Even though I am atheist. So I prefer the old books rather than the fictional film books.
@@heatblast876 fiction is fiction regardless of when it was written. If you believe the bible is more moral than HP, then I doubt you are an atheist
@Ausaris For me, Harry Potter is still a fictional fantasy film, why should i take this modern late 1990~early 2010s movie books with new words written, anyway, instead I rather take the old books which atleast shows real morals, ethics and even some facts. Also, reading the Bible and other old books would not make me a religious person. Instead, it's actually not only improved myself but also showed me the good deeds and values on it, that in today's world is missing. So i prefer the old books and at the same time I totally disagree with you.
@Ausaris I mean, what is your problem? Like the bible is more like fairy tale and biblical words. See, I don't care about the words that are written on it, especially biblical, ok, but the thing is that they are some sentences (verse) that actually inspired me a lot. Here, the thing on the old books (bible), what it's say, "if you tell the truth, the truth will send you free" i really love the line, what it's say. And there some of the sentences (verse) which are touching and inspiring too at the same time, which actually makes it's a good deeds and values from it, so it does make sense, not all, ok, some of the verse is mystery and some of them is not right. So, the same thing goes for Harry Potter's book, but with modern twits. I mean, why should I prefer or read this, even if it's a modern book that is based on the film industry, even after i saw the movie, why should i take this book, i want to improve and understand myself to become a good person, not a cringy once who disrespect it badly, what other atheist do it without knowing any reason. So what should I take it, huh, Harry Potter is a film industry book, so instead I rather take the old prehistoric book. For what, to understand it how to be a good respective person. That's what. Most/Some of the atheist are ready to disrespect it without any reason or any logic that they are telling it. Which makes them a terrible person. That's why I am a totally different atheist compared to other atheist, because they lack in facts, morals, ethics, logic, good deeds, simple values, and even science. Thanks to this old book, which actually helps me a lot, even if it is a bad or good situation.
I don't want to have faith in the pilot of my airline, I prefer to trust him. 👍
Don’t need to have trust or faith as the evidence is a very small number of planes crash. It’s logical to believe that it’s going to be safe.
I think it's incredibly ironic that at the beginning of the call, Evan was complaining that most debates he watched came down to a disagreement about the definition of terms, but all he seemed to want to do the whole time was talk about the definition of terms rather than the actual issue, even after the terms were defined for him.
Defined for him ? Who's the deciding factor.
Atheist won't even admit that atheism is a disbelief even when I supply definitions from reputable sources.
But even more important I have an argument based in physical evidence proving that atheism is an unwillingness or inability to accept God as true.
The Atheist will deny it.
He wants to claim that atheism is whatever he says it is and he also has the default position 😂
@@HumanismIsGarbage Drop the sources and the physical evidence? You could rock the entire world with this insane hidden knowledge.
@@HumanismIsGarbageIt’s convenient that theists on the comment section always go silent when their bluff gets called and when asked to back up their B.S.
@HumanismIsGarbage Which atheists are you talking to (or, more probably not listening to)? I’m perfectly happy to say that atheism is a disbelief, although I have to admit that I tend to think of it myself as a non-belief. Also: yeah, I’m unable to believe in the idea of a theist god (and specifically the god described in bible or quran) in part because the premise is ridiculous and in part because there is no evidence in favour of such a god. So, er, I guess you win, kind of?
@@HumanismIsGarbage Stop lying. Typical theist. Of course, atheism is a disbelief. Atheism is NOT an unwillingness or inability to accept God as true. Atheism is a rejection of the theist claim that a god exists due to the FACT that theists are completely and totally unable to provide a single shred of verifiable evidence to support their claim. Atheism asserts nothing. It only rejects what you have failed to prove.
Imagine if someone called in with evidence.
We've essentially had two thousand years for them to try that.
We're still waiting.
What is evidence?
Except you are lying. Fine Tuning of the initial conditions (constants and quantities) of the Universe. Physical beginnings (KCA), Contingent existence (Leibniz), DNA digital information in nature driving radically complex, specifically ordered biological systems aimed at multiple higher-ordered third purpose utilities, free-will, intelligence in nature, consciousness, self-aware beings , Design and engineering in nature built upon a rational and mathematical order, NDE's, ubiquitous spiritual experience, historical evidence, objective moral values and duties (moral reality) etc etc are all evidence. No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot.
Why do you atheists lie incessantly? Where is YOUR evidence?
@@JimCastleberry "Why do you atheists lie incessantly?"
Silly Sock-Puppet. You keep stomping your foot and pouting. If you stop being the one who lies and start presenting evidence that prove your claims, you'll finally be able to join the big people table like you want to.
@@JimCastleberry More of your same debunked nonsense...
Get a new script child...
I think it's interesting that the Theists say they want truth but don't have call in shows like these where they take atheist questions.
Even more interesting is that many buybile thumper channels on RUclips have their comments section turned off.
Further proof that they're not interested in seeking the truth.
You mean shows that place the caller at a severe disadvantage? You know the purpose of a caller is to make the host look good, a talented host can do this no matter how good the caller's argument.
@@jon__doe irrelevant
@@jon__doehis point is that there don’t seem to be theists willing to stand behind their beliefs in a similar format that don’t use a Darth Dawkins approach
@@jon__doe
The fact of the matter, is that ALL theists are at a severe disadvantage. Because NONE of them have logical arguments or EVIDENCE to prove their position to be valid.
Besides the fact that ALL of them are DISHONEST.
Sadly, there are folks who believe everything in the Bible, and would still believe it even if they knew for a fact it was wrong. They really don't care about the truth; one of them seriously answered the question of "Do you really believed Jonah survived for 3 days in the belly of a whale, which the Bible erroneously refers to as a fish?" with "I would believe what the Bible said even if it said Jonah was the one who swallowed the whale!" There is no joke here, I am completely serious when I say that proves they really do not care about the truth.
Absolutely. It's a surrender of will to an invisible authority, a reversion to infantilism. The more complete the surrender, the more praiseworthy it becomes to the faithful.
No reference to truth is required, only to obedience.
Why do you say erronously says fish? You say that as if the story was real and the only wrong part of it being a whale and not a fish. The whole story is made up. And you know what, in a made zp story it acutally males more sense for it to be a fish and not a whale. A whale can't swallow a human. A giant fish could.
Clearly he swallowed the whole Bible.
How do you know it isn’t true? God can make it happen. We believe in God. If you don’t believe in God, then that’s your choice, but you cannot say for certain that it did not happen. You claim we don’t want the truth, but if you’re claiming it to be false without being able to prove it so, are you not doing the exact same thing you are accusing us of? There is nothing wrong with saying “I don’t know”. Christians don’t have all of the answers to everything, we believe and trust in God. God did not reveal all to us.
The Bible also states that God prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. That could mean that God created a specific fish capable of doing so. God could have taken an existing fish and altered it. We can’t know for certain, we did not witness it.
You state the Bible erroneously calls it a fish instead of a whale. Did the word “whale” exist in the time of Jonah? Would it be so far fetched to believe they called an animal in the sea a fish? It could have also been something other than a whale. We believe God created the universe, so it wouldn’t be impossible for God to create a fish.
Unless you are all knowing and have proof of the universe existing without the possibility of God, you can’t know for certain God doesn’t exist. It is not illogical to believe in something beyond yourself. We all know humans haven’t existed forever. Something or someone had to put us here.
@@mrs.rabbit1549 there isn’t a word you believe in that hasn’t arrived via humans and various interpretations. You admit to accepting, without doubt, that these channels account for the development of all creation, space and time, and control over every scintilla of atomic events from prehistory for all time… seems reasonable… 🙄
Writing a book does not prove anything you have written WAS TRUE.
Reading a book and accepting the content without evidence is ALSO not evidence.
was watching a real murder trial last week from scotland and i couldn't believe the witness was swearing the oath to tell the truth on the bible
so using a book where the main character is a mass murderer to compel people to tell the truth in a murder trial.......
The Illiad was written down a long time ago, it has Greek gods in it, and many people have read it over thousands of years. So does that mean we should believe that the Greeks gods really existed?
We also have planets, cities, diseases and fashion brands named after greek gods. Of course they are real.
@@grantwing4942 Hee, hee. Not bad.
You don’t choose your beliefs, you become convinced by evidence that supports the claim being made, or not. You can SAY you believe in purple sea monsters, but till you actually encounter one and get a tissue sample test result from a lab that confirms it’s a real gosh-damn purple sea monster, you ain’t believing jack✌🏻
"The Illiad was written down"
Even better, the book was used to find a few forgotten historical places such as the city of Troy and the Oracle of Delphi...
That gives it a lot more credence than the bible...
@@t800fantasm2 I've been to Troy. Haven't been to Delphi yet. Was the Oracle of Delphi's (purported) location mentioned in the Iliad? If so, I either didn't know that or forgot it. It's been a long time since I read the Iliad.
Beyond determining what I think to be true is accepting that sometimes "I don't know" is a perfectly good answer.
I like Neil Degrasse Tyson’s response: I have people working on that.
Good to see you have Jesus himself on to debunk himself
Yeah, he got sick of all the 🐂💩, so he had a real hard think about things and realised he was atheist after all.
Claiming the bible is evidence that it's true is like claiming a Harry Potter book is evidence of a school for wirchcraft amd wizardry.
Wait are you telling me it's not? Dammit, I was so certain Hogwarts was real.
You mean I'm not gonna get my owl carried letter anytime soon? Damn it.
To be fair, it does count as anecdotal evidence. Unfortunately for them that's the lowest form of evidence and is no where near enough to justify their beliefs in the supernatural claims. It may suffice for claims such as this city existed around this time, or this person lived and said these things. Even then, it's not strong evidence for even those mundane claims.
I love this answer ❤
Well, that explains the concussion I suffered at the train station trying to access platform 9 3/4🤕
The Bible says a lot of things that aren't true
Well, yeah. That’s something non-fundamentalist Christians and atheists certainly agree about.
I love when they start with big words and they end up just repeating what the Bible says
Without making me watch the whole video again, would you mind repeating the big words that make your point? This would have been a useful thing to include in your original post. I watched the whole thing and don't remember any big words at the start that weren't equally as big as those used towards the end.
@@neekfenwick the caller started with a very rational approach: he talked about how do you know if something is true, he tried to define a common ground with the hosts and he even agreed on many points. He talks about objectivity in truth and reality, if mathematics is discovered etc. He is showing phylosophycal knowledge and a certain level of rational thinking. That is why in my comment, I say that he started with big words.
He then start arguing about the definition of evidence and, at the end, concludes with basically saying that the Bible is true because they are reading the Bible wrong and they have a wrong definition of evidence. He then proceed to repeat what the gospel says about the resurrection.
I just found funny how much the beginning of the call was pointing to some real rational debate to end instead in the usual, nonsensical, argument "is true because the Bible".
The bible doesn't really have four gospels, it has one, Mark, which in its original form didn't mention any resurrection, and three fanfic adaptations.
My friend just came in and exclaimed, "Jesus!"
I said, "huh?"
He just pointed at the monitor.
"Oh", I said. "That is JMike, not J.C. !"
We gotta a chuckle outta that!
That one minute he had was the most one-sided straw man argument that boiled down to “ I’m right and if you disagree you’re wrong”
So the caller 'investigated' and is convinced. But when asked for proof......nada.
As someone who has calculus in my university curriculum: I didn't liked his statement about math. Sure, 2+2=4 might be true in any situation, but it is important to understand that when a 5 meters tree grows to 5 meters, it didn't decided to be 5 meters, because we decided what 1 meter looks like, not the tree. A meteor moving at 5 km/h didn't decided that it moves 5km/h, we did, because we decided what 1km looks like and what 1 hour looks like
I taught high school calculus, and was delighted to learn from Wikipedia that Colin McLaurin, like myself and David Balfour, the protagonist of "Kidnapped", thought "Bonnie Prince Chairlie" was a mistake.
When someone refers to mathematics as "them," you KNOW that they're qualified to talk about the topic.
In the holy gospels of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee there is evidence of a man who climbs on walls and shoots webs out of his hands! They wrote about him, so he must exist!
You forgot about the gold plates that Sam Raimi found. Please read the book of Pizza Time🙏🙏🙏
Little Goblin Jr. is out there trying to put dirt in your eye. For he is the devil, but through Pizza Timeism we will forget thebpart where that's our problem, and we will not cry out 'my back' in pain for Maguire is with us. When we follow his word, we can do anything, even beat an old lady with a stick for cranberries.
Not to mention that since the writings of those stories the actual New York City was discovered.
It’s a pleasure listening to intelligent people. You make a great team and this was a good show.
Americans are raised to believe that all good people must believe in a higher power. Americans are raised to think positively, which for some means an afterlife. Americans are raised to believe that being Christian is part of being patriotic... God slogans on monuments, currency, inserted into the pledge of allegiance.
The average Christian is bewildered and a little bit shocked when they hear of an atheist.. it blows their brainwashed minds. "Look at the trees! The Bible says so and so." For many Christians, the Bible is reality, wisdom, history, inspired...not propaganda for just another political social ideology.
What it actually is, is marketing and propaganda for Christianity, and in Paul's epistles, and in the Gospels, the writers are clearly already addressing and responding to known criticism from other religions, including Judaism, and general skepticism that Jesus was divine, resurrected, or the prophesied "Messiah".
The writers are doing their level best, quote mining the Old Testament and putting prophesies into Jesus mouth, to argue and persuade readers that even though it sounds fantastical, it was all possible and true, and prophesied, thanks to a higher power, which turned out to be their triune gods (present Christians say), even though at the time of writing that theological doctrine had not yet been proposed.
They also are already providing apologetics, and advising faith over reason, and teaching not to rely on your own understanding, because that would be evil. It is all gaslighting i.e. Romans 1:20... "we aren't crazy for believing in the supernatural higher power, you are crazy for not believing, or denying it" (their version of it, in particular, lol). Only a fool says, yadi, yadi, yadi.
If it walks and quacks like any other man-made religion purporting its exclusivity and authenticity, while marketing itself to gullible wishful thinkers, it probably is one. Early Christianity was competing for superstitious minds, against all the other flavors of religion, new and old, that had ever been conceived and imagined.
I've always viewed religion as a poison to society while exposing any child to religion under the age of eighteen, is akin to mental and emotional child abuse.
@stenblann...whats your opinion on whether there was a historical jesus??
look at the trees -- yes, please do look at them. Look at all the chaos and branches all akimbo -- nobody designed that, at least not anything with intelligence.
_Americans are raised to believe that being Christian is part of being patriotic_
In the South, patriotism & christianity are molded together, but that's not the case in all parts of the United States.
Brilliant comment. Thanks.
The caller started out quite reasonable and then descended into gobbledygook. His justification was, the Bible was passed down through thousands of years, and his personal experience, neither of which matters one whit. Another example of how people compartmentalize. Unfortunately, some religious scientists do the same thing.
JMike's diversion into historical jesus derailed the conversation.
@@scambammer6102 Unfortunately, I thought JMike's initial discussion of philosophy was a digression and was somewhat hard to follow, at least for me.
@@bobtimster62 agree. especially when his conclusion was that he does not trust deductive reasoning, so what was the point of all that?
@@scambammer6102 JMike wants to "raise the probability that a proposition is true."
Typically Christian apologists use deductive reasoning to justify their claims. I suspect JMike was trying to discourage the caller from using that type of argument.
With deductive reasoning, one or more premises are defined as true, then reason is employed to reach a conclusion.
The problem arises when one or more of the premises requires more than the assertion it is true.
For example, Christian deductive arguments usually start with the assumed premise 'God exists.' To a sceptic, all reasoning from that premise is not to be trusted.
My less formal view is that they assert a belief then look for reasons to believe it using deductive reasoning.
@@sigmaoctantis1892
There's lots to like about deductive reasoning, if we're working in mathematics or some other conceptual formalism.
But if we're investigating what strictly exists in reality, then we have to proceed strictly from observed evidence of that reality, and not from making up some axioms that we thought might be cool.
If there's one characteristic that I've noticed about theists and magical thinkers in general, it's their affection for the imaginary, to the point where if an idea feels sufficiently powerful then it must be true. And they seem unable to conceive that this felt sense of conviction might not always be correct.
Maybe some day we'll identify the gene which regulates this tendency. It would be a shame to do away with imagination. It's a beautiful part of human nature. But get a grip, people!
Forrest and Jmike are a dream team host combo for me. Johnny is just a bonus here.
Agreed
Reality doesn't give a damn about Your "Feelings" or "Opinions". Reality is about living with the real truth.
Oh the irony...
@@jon__doedefine irony then show how it applied to his statement
@kafkas_Simp you should know the definition and atheism denies aspects of reality.
@@jon__doe what does "atheism" deny that is an aspect of reality? (Spoiler: it doesn't _deny_ anything...)
And how have you determined that *_is_* an (objective) aspect of reality?
@@irrelevant_noobAtheism denies the existence of God. It denies that evidence for God exists. And many atheists deny that atheism itself is a belief.
Moreover, it's a belief in an unsupportable position, that God does not exist. There is no logical argument for the non-existence of God, only objections to many logical arguments FOR the existence of God.
Feel free to try your "lack of belief" definition. It fails miserably, I'd be happy to walk you through it.
The book in your hand is evidence that humans like to tell stories, the book is not an apple!
I wonder how the caller (or any other person with similar views) would answer the question: Why do you believe what's written in the bible, but you don't believe what's written in The Lord of the Rings. Or if you are into multiple unknown authors, the Popol Vu? Or the Epic of Gilgamesh?
What makes the compilation of books we call the Bible more believable?
66 books, written over 1500 years, by 35(?) authors with a single theme. That theme, Jesus, divided history and changed the world.
Entire volumes that could fill a library have been written in answer to your question. I'm sure you don't want a recitation of every rational thought leading me to believing the Bible, but if you have a more specific question, perhaps I can help.
@@jon__doe Are the parts where God calls for genocide also about Jesus?
@@jon__doe "That theme, Jesus, divided history and changed the world."
What is the best/strongest evidence that you have that proves your christ character was ever a real person?
@@jon__doe
SO you telling me, a book is real, if enough people read it?
Harry Potter books.
Millions love it, changed the world even more since it is printed in countries where nobody read the Bible.
The Bible is a collection of copies over copies from pagan myths and legends.
Just like Islam is the copy of the Abrahamic religions, as the Bible.
Get some history lessons and cry about.
"but you don't believe what's written in The Lord of the Rings. "
When I was little, I read both the bible and LOTR
Decided LOTR made more sense and knew at that point the bible was fiction...
Amazingly the Bible itself woke me up😂it’s just it took me 40 years😅cuz I was just cherry-picking😮
I had to read it 3 times before I finally figured it out.
@@timq6224 good, at least you read it, I tried but always stopped by the difficult names in OT and was feeling at ease going Bible meetings and just listening the talks of the pastors. Which I regret, and yes, should’ve have read it CAREFULLY by myself.
Ditto!
33 years for me.
And, it's okay. You know, now. Bravo! 🎉
I love this trio. They work so well together.
Johnny, Jmike and Forrest...the trifecta!
Yeah that worked out really well.
And lo, it was good.
The need to hit people with the engine dilemma. If i build an engine and it fails, is it my fault or the engines? Furthermore, if i know already it will fail ( assuming i know everything that is and all possible outcomes of what could be ) why would i possibly still build the engine and then blame it for failing. Thats God vs. Sinners. To make imperfect beings and an inconceivable punishment for an inconceivable amount time, already knowing the outcome is twisted.
That's really good, I have never heard it before, but I like it.
Nice one Bro!
I usually go with a software-analogy, but it harps on the same exact point.
If I write a program, run it through testing and _very much know precisely when and why it will fail_ and then release that software, it failing exactly where I knew it would fail isn't the fault of the software or it's user. It's mine. Obviously so.
I like that one, imma that as well
Prosecution: We have a confession of the murder that included detailed information about where to find the body, we have video surveillance from multiple cameras where the face is clearly visible, forensics shows the videos were not tampered with, we have the murder weapon in his possession with his finger prints, we have the victims blood in his trunk, tire tracks of his vehicle at the scene where the body was found, and multiple social media posts bragging about the murder immediately afterwards.
Defense: So you just take it on faith? 🤣🤣🤣
I'm still not convinced that Evan wasn't a troll or a Poe.
i think he believes the crap he was spouting
Self delusion is a very strong thing indees
And how can someone "be a fan of the show for years" and still be theist?
@@casparuskruger4807 I don't know, but if someone has watched the show for years and then uses the "My book says a thing" argument, I'm immediately suspicious.
I heard them use the term “Poe” before…. What does it mean?
If I had a donkey, I would make sure that no Christian apologist tried to talk away its hind legs.
"Why is a book in my hand"?
LOL
Any book with a talking snake should end any debate
When he said “I don’t want to be too philosophical…” hahahaha😂
What a profoundly ignorant, perhaps imbecilic, articulation! 😂 I applaud your contribution to this immensely interminable thread ❤🎉 Additionally, if you desire to consume my content, seek out The Infographics Show's video on Jesus' resurrection. My comment is categorized under the "newest" portion of that video's comment section ❤
Science isn't a beliefsystem. So 'having faith' in it is just an erroneous comment. Which theists know, since we explained this a BILLION times.
Science is a method where we follow the evidence and then apply a degree of confidence and ALWAYS leave the door open for new data.
Which is the exact opposite of religion where there is no method, but absolute confidence in the claim, and a closed door for other info or opinions.
Now there is a minute possibility that a religion is accidentally correct, but the irony is that science would come to that conclusion, supported by evidence. However you look at it, religion is the wrong way of looking at tne world and you see a lot of hypocrisy too. Since the majority enjoys the benefits of science, of not everyone. like medicine, or simply electricity which allows for fridges to exist...
I have a book in my hand. Its called 'twilight'. I still dont think vampires are real...
big mistake
CHOMP
Evan, that's because what's written in the bible is the claim itself. The claim then needs to be verified with corroborated evidence and reasoning. By your criteria the Quran is just as viable "evidence" as the bible.
You'd think the awareness that people believe in other Gods based on the existence of a different book about their God and the awareness that those people have personal experiences that cause them to believe in their God over all others would be enough for someone to conclude "hey, maybe this isn't sufficient evidence to justify my belief."
And yet, here we are. Lol
I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Thank you, gentlemen.
Evan is full of sophistry and seems completely out of his depth.
He hasn't got any evidence to support his claim
Yeah it often is a definition thing in the end. Theists consistently have a problem with using a word in two different ways in the same argument while pretending to be using only one.
God created imperfect humans then punish them for being imperfect...now that makes sense 😅😢😅😮😂think I will pass on that religion
Also lied to them while the talking snake told the truth
@@angryboxingfanthis is something christians intentionally overlook. The snake never lied, even god admitted that adam and eve had become "like them" by eating the fruit, but the snake is still seen as a liar
@@Mkeusquealbby they overlook a lot
Wonder if gawd is evil actually 🤔
@@angryboxingfan set them up for failure and all knowing but ask where Adam waz while calling pride a evil sin and jealously while being da gawd of those things or love your enemies but sin and wickedness are hiz kryptonite like a 🧛☀️ :
So if something is true because the book says so, then there are so many things that are real. Fairies, Unicorns, Elves, Dragons. Even all the other gods of other religions, which contradicts the bible.
Although, one thing I do like about the bible, it makes for excellent charcoal. It burns like crazy.
Actually there some facts and morals are real, and some are not. That's the point. Whereas fairies, unicorns, and elves, those are Scandinavians folktales, why are you comparing that to the Bible. Huh? The old books have nothing to do with this.
Robin Hood, King Arthur, this guy is an apple short of an orchard. Thats not a timer thats an apple !
The Bible says that the Bible is true so what else do you need?
I know the Good Book's good because the Good Book says it's good
I know the Good Book knows it's good because a really good book would
I think 3 hosts are too much. The caller had real trouble having a back-and-forth before a conversation redirection by another host.
I like the use of the clock to let him get it all out
People get nervous when they call he clearly had a spiel he planned out ahead of time and when he got off script he just froze essentially. He wasn't ready for a conversation essentially.
As a scientist, I would say that a good way to sum up some of these arguments is to say that a good theory, for example, is one that is falsifiable. I would also add that it must agree with the results of all previous theories, and also predict new phenomena that the previous theories do not. (A good example is Einstein's theory of General Relativity.) A theory that is not falsifiable is useless, like the "brain in the vat theory". Unlike the Bible, science provides tentative truth, i.e., until we come up with a better theory, whereas the Bible claims to be unerring, absolute truth, which never changes with time. The claims in the Bible are also unfalsifiable, and make no predictions. (Although it's pretty good at retrodictions!)
Will: Do you like apples?
Michael Bolton clone: Yeah.
Will: Well I got her number. How do you like them apples?-Good Will Hunting
Your witticism is golden! 😂 I applaud your contribution to this immensely interminable thread ❤🎉 Additionally, if you desire to consume my content, seek out The Infographics Show's video on Jesus' resurrection. My comment is categorized under the "newest" portion of that video's comment section ❤
Anytime they say "Well you just have faith too," they are admitting that faith is not a good thing to have.
The Bible has a talking donkey and unicorns but those that believe in it somehow find justification in demanding others believe the same thing
What do you have faith in?
@@jon__doe Why do you care?
@@MrGrimX88X You misrepresent Christianity, there are no demands. I could say the same of the atheist, demanding I believe as they do.
@@jon__doe "What do you have faith in?'
I don't have faith in anything...
I look both ways crossing a one way street...
@@jon__doe "Christianity, there are no demands. "
Except for worshiping a God or you go to hell...
" I could say the same of the atheist, demanding I believe as they do."
We don't...
We just want you to stop trying to change society, laws and education to reflect a bronze age religion...
The difference with all holey books - the torah quran bible, whatever and the science, medicine, pharmacology, mathematics, chemistry, biology, physics books is that if you burn every single of those books on this planet, in 1000 years, only the science, maths, chemistry, biology, physics books will be written almost 99.99% the same as it was today albeit minor changes due to new findings. Those holey books on the other hand, will never return and humans will make up some new kind of sky god just to soothe their insecurities and enigmas. FACT.
"I'll make a prediction that I'm not going to get any evidence." - J.Mike
Prophecy was fulfilled this day.
Possibly the worst argument for evidence for the resurrection.
How did they get Jesus himself to be on the show, right there in the middle?
He got sick of all the 🐂💩 so he had a real hard think about things and realised he was atheist after all.
This was a class episode!
I like when Forrest was counting with his fingers he did "three" the way he did. It reminds me of Inglourious Basterds
The Dictionary says it's fiction.
Do you speak English?
"Where the hell did you go to school? " -Aaron Kuntze
Here's the evidence found in the multitude of bibles available across the numerous Orthodoxies, denominations, etc. Christianity teaches that their God is all-knowing and infallible yet, there are no characters within biblical literature who possess the qualifications and abilities that model those of their beliefs in their God. Certainly YHWH does not represent an all-knowing and infallible Creator. If he did, he wouldn't have had to revert to Plan B (the flood) or Plan C (ghost sex with a teenage virgin, murdering his only son and then raising him from the dead).
✝️ not really a sacrifice if your 3 in one holy (👻sonfather) comes back lol
What always gets me is most that believe this haven't read it, not that I blame them for it given how badly written it is but to claim absolute trust in something they have barely even dipped into seems weird....
Because, weirdly, it's easier to believe in a hypothetical unicorn than one you can investigate in front of you.
So this caller has been listening to the show for a few years and still believes in a god ? How?
And this question has been asked a thousand times.
Lovely line up
It's frustrating but we have to remember, many Christian theists struggle with the concepts:
- evidence
- burden of proof
- unsubstantiated claims
- difference between knowledge and belief.
Because they have been raised indoctrinated by religion since childhoold and the above are not taught or really explored.
As a former Christian/Catholic I definitely understand because I remember my Religious upbrining almost relied entirely on anacdotes, testimonies and analogies...not explanations and independent evidence to verfiy beliefs.
All the frustrations however is worth it.
Because many Atheists such as myself were Christian Theists once who believed, didn't question, didn't scutenize or be exposed to reality outside of church walls like many Christian theists do now.
People leaving the church and eventually dropping the god(s) belief continues to grow, especially among the younger generation.
1/3 of the population are now "nones"/Atheists and nearly half of Gen Z are non-Religious.
So perhaps going through the fustration/brickwalls plays a part in the growing number of people going from fundamentalist bible believer - liberal interpreter - deist - pantheist - to eventual atheist.
_Because many Atheists such as myself were Christian Theists once who believed, didn't question, didn't scutenize or be exposed to reality outside of church walls like many Christian theists do now._
Perhaps this is where you went wrong. The tale of Santa Claus is a lesson in how people learn. As young children, we accept everything we're told by any trusted source. Unless we are given reason to doubt, most any source is trusted by a very young child. As we grow older, we discover how to rationalize and we find flaws in many things we believed as a child.
It then becomes normal, as anyone who raised kids knows, to doubt everything. Any knowledge that is "old" is suspect. Some get lost in this stage and stubbornly refuse to accept anything considered "outdated." There are many examples.
Confirmation bias works in any given direction. The person who seeks to defend their beliefs will typically be able to do so, the same is true for disbelief. It's exceptionally difficult to search for truth when the nature of that truth is what's in question. Resentments, grudges, disappointments, all come into play. You can't watch this channel or read the comments without seeing bias in every corner, from both sides.
I've found it's important to be critical of each position, and tolerant of each. Doing this the best I could has led me to a much more grounded faith in the God of the Bible.
There is an abundance of evidence for God. Proof is a different thing and often only found by weighing the evidence.
The burden of proof is interesting since atheism is logically untenable. It cannot be logically argued that God does not exist, it can be argued that God _does_ exist.
Unsubstantiated claims abound on all sides. For the Christian, many are taken on faith, admittedly so. But for the atheist, how many claims are based on faith as well? The claim that abiogenesis can be resolved by something yet to be considered is pure faith. The resolution to infinite regression, again, "we don't know yet" is used to imply there is a resolution, which isn't God, that simply hasn't been considered yet. This is an unsubstantiated claim that can't even define the claim.
The difference between knowledge and belief is like the difference between evidence and proof. For example, we know common genetics between organisms is evidence for heredity, but it's also evidence for design. We have no proof for either. So given this evidence, you can justify belief in either evolution or design. Have you ever looked at the preponderance of evidence?
I don't struggle with any of these concepts. I am a Christian theist.
⚛️🔴⚔️🟣✝️ megatron is LORD
@@jon__doeyou struggle to walk up some stairs
I just want this caller, You do know God did not come down and physically write that book right?
After watching A Saved By the Bell marathon the other night, I can't help but see a resemblance between Forrest and "Screech", in appearance anyway, not personality, LOL
LMFAO, you’re so right.
I like Johnny's mate cup. I have one that's coated with aluminum and copper
People wrote stuff = True
'clarificatory' ?? Surely, 'clarifying' is what you mean.
'justificatory' ?? Again, 'justification' or 'justifying' will suffice.
Phew, there's some interesting words getting used across the pond there. They do like the 'icatory' suffixes.
Still I guess that's just normalcy right?... or is it normality.
Stay healthful....er... I mean healthy.
"You failed. You flunked." -JMike, 2023
21:39
I just had a debate on RUclips with someone who was insisting that he only went to college because God let him. 😭
Is it solstice time already!? Triple treat = triple threat 😅
The bible was written 1600 years ago. With the knowledge they had back then. We gained a lot of knowledge since then. Many claims it makes can be considered kids stuff with today's information, like everything revolves around a 6000 year old earth. If you found these kind of fallacies in any other book you probably wouldn't ever touch it again. If the bible says it's true, it's probably not.
@@369spartanYou are aware that moby dick has the same holy numbers present in it? Should be worship great white whale?
@@369spartan Looks like Spartan boy here can't say anything in any of the threads that would stand the check of test of reality...
Shame LOL
@@369spartan Yepp, I was right again. LOL
Not written, collated at that time.
@@369spartanwhat does making Christians look bad give you? Does it fill a void in your life?
Whether the apple is there or not doesn't depend upon someone seeing it.
onslaught of nutters
Real truth is that which fails to be falsified every time it is tested.
It is true that; 'my dog is real' because every time I look at him he does not fail to exist.
It's inductive, but we pretty much have to work with it.
"I believe in god because there's a book about him." This is also why I believe in Batman.
Jmike seems to be short here with his positioning in the middle and alot of his figure being broken up by his hair and stuff in the foreground. Along with his hair/facial hair it makes him look like a fantasy dwarf. This gave me great joy the whole time. 😆
Does historical fiction render history fictional?
How historically true is an aesop or parable?
It seems there's a lot of triggered people posting on this video.
I heartily recommend against posting while angry.
The trolls seem permanently triggered by the fact that people disagree with them, if they acted on your suggestion they'd never post.
@@joshsheridan9511
Good point 😆
22:50 "It's not just believing because you're told to believe, it's looking for a good reason." -- Also looking for good reasons not to believe. Science advances by challenging our existing ideas about reality.
When he started talking about the apple
I saw a comment today from a Christian saying we "worship" science just like she worships her god. To that i say lets look up a word.
Science:
the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.
"the world of science and technology"
What do you expect from people who live in cognitive dissonance just to be able to accept something without proof?
Instead of providing evidence, they try to poke wholes with strawman arguments.
Awfully reminding me to Flat Earthers.
She was referring to a phenomenon known as scientism. The belief that the investigative methods of the physical sciences are applicable or justifiable in all fields of inquiry.
This has metaphysical roots, which isn't scientific. The metaphysic is ontological naturalism. The religious process of scientism is to try to reinforce the metaphysical philosophy of ontological naturalism. This cannot be called science, because science is predicated on philosophy, not the other way around.
@@jon__doe Philosophy has nothing to do with materialism, where we live in.
If something created us, this universe, it had to be able to interact with matter, thus, it has to be detected/proven in material realism.
Simple.
The OP looked up the wrong word. The question not how one defines “science”. The question is how one defines “worship.”
And, IMO scientism is a term intended to slander used by people unhappy with the extent to which the modern world requires us all to interact with technology while supposedly denying thoughts and feelings. It seems to have come about after WW2 and the rise of modern weapons of mass destruction, and continues with the current electronics explosion.
He believes in "objective reality" when he says something is "true" it means everywhere and every time. That is until he starts expounding on it and it is clearly anything but that! What comes first; the religion or the brain softening?
Before watching this clip, I would have said that 3 hosts is a recipe for disaster but this was one of my favorite clips. Evan tried to duck and dodge while he twisted himself into a pretzel but he did not stand a chance against a scientist, a philosopher, and a lawyer. They cut through the bullshit to perfectly highlight the multiple issues with Evan's epistomology
Do Christians ever give a straight answer?
@Dan-dy3ft wrote a no doubt soon to be deleted post in which he opines that atheists discussing the Bible are like a blind person discussing colors. (Has this person been blind from birth?) That just confirms how closed minded this person is- no perspective on the Bible other than the ones that conform to his ideology can be legitimate.
'Dan-dy3ft" is clearly either a troll, and or mentally ill...
Best to avoid that ass-wipe...
It’s hilarious how he claims he doesn’t speak for other people, yet his whole troll persona is trying to tell us how we think/feel/believe.
Yep, he deleted and ran yet again, and wonders why he gets the reception he does. I wonder if he knows Kentucky Fried Brad?
He believes in objective truth AND he believes in a god? How does that work?
Feelings tell me the truth about how I feel
And I can’t understand truth without proven predictions, objectivity and humility.
Religious truth functions in another reality and it certainly is not an objective reality
There is no such thing as "religious truth".
Religion can not exist next to facts/truth.
That's the point of a fairy tale, full of magic and wonderful events that is not real, but at least a fairy tale does not assert that it is true!
While evidence is the most primitive answer to seeing a god, I absolutely loved their versions of awareness in relation to evidence and also from an indirect perspective not allowing what clearly doesn't exist not conquer what _they're_ here for. Awesomeness guys.
Atheism has nothing to do with evidence it's a disbelief which means it's an unwillingness or inability to accept God as true.
So even if it was proven by the scientific method the origins of life is a result of a Creator The Atheist still wouldn't accept it as true.
Atheist don't care about evidence lol they severely mutilate their children because they believe their children have a brain of a different gender in their body.
Matter fact I bet you don't even believe the origins of Life came into existence without God.. and if I'm wrong and you do please provide evidence to why you believe that. And in return I will provide evidence to why I believe in God and we will see which one is more logical.
PS I didn't ask you what you know I asked you what you believe is true
@@HumanismIsGarbage Spot on brother, my unwillingness or inability to accept God as true is due to the boring ritual activities it wants you to do.
As honestly, I'd rather spend my spare time on things I enjoy like gardening or walking the dog.
Each to their own hobbies and interest I say.
Peace Love Empathy Always Brother 🤠👍
Is this English?
Why couldn’t or didn’t God predict internet will help people to wake up😅, many infos and programs about his book is easy to find and research to know what actually is the truth, plus the Christian talker programs on net (their way of talking and emotions) gives me more confidence I made the right choice to leave from this book😂
@jebushypocristoswhen I started listening Friendly Atheists Hemant’s Bible reading program, and he explaining well of it than the pastors, my mind blew and was enough to wake up! I wonder why I had pushed aside Lot’s story and the other nonsense ones😅Samson’s is the No.1 weirdest.😂
From my studies Jesus was mythical, just a copy of so called saviours in previous religions from thousands of years before . Hinduism is thousands of years older . I believe he is a figure emphasizing the good traits of humankind. A sort of good radical against old fashioned thinking.