I appreciate the time you put into this video, but I don't see how this is a worthwhile comparison between of the rifles. It makes more sense to compare a few different factory loads from the rifles in the same caliber than two different calibers in several handloads. They aren't even shooting the same projectile.
You have a good point there and thank you for the comment. One of the things these two rifles have in common, that I deemed to compare, was that the factory called them Precision Rifles. The other thing that peeked my interest, and they have in common, is the Creedmoor Chambering. I understand that using a good chambering design with controlled factory ammo while staying with-in short action spec's can produce much better results. I would trust factory loaded Creedmoor ammo better than other chambering's, but hand loading, the one thing we can actually adjust for better results, seems to me the best way to compare these two different Factory Rifles but like you said they are two different projectiles.
I believe its the bullet weight to! I am getting one hole groups with the berger 140gr vld-hunting bullets at 100yards and 3/4 in at 200. Running at 2770fps.
Want to trade me? lol just kidding. We are actually pondering on putting a Rem/Age screw on barrel on that action. I'm interested in trying a set-up like that.
@@LosDoyerss Yes I know Bergara is known for great barrels. Just not this one lol. Rem/age is a new method of attaching a barrel to a 700 style action. It uses a nut like the savage does. Many barrel makers use that option now-a-days.
@@rsvarminters9083 To be honest, I have a Bergara Premier Ridgeback in 300 PRC with only 200 rounds down the tube and actually sent it in to Bergara to have the barrel exchanged due to a lot of cracks in the barrel, and not heat cracking, actual cracks that spiraled all the way down the barrel. They refused to do so and said no work was done to the barrel. Get it back and they had cut 3 thou out of the chamber and had also recut the crown of the barrel. They also had dropped my stock and messed up my bolt handle and the stock. Fortunately, they did send a replacement bolt handle and stock for the error. The rifle now can finally manage a sub MOA group at 100 yards and right around 1 MOA at 1000 yards. With that said though, the rifle is absolutely for sale as I am tired of dealing with it and my 600$ savage 110 shoots just as good if not better than it. Going to replace it with the Savage Elite Precision. Very disappointed with the Bergara to the point I bought a F Class Panda Action, a Brux barrel, and am having Alex Sitman from Masterclass make a stock for it and Alex Wheeler will be putting it all together.
@@owned323 ohhh sounds like a nice build :) I have a Defiance action coming soon and was thinking Brux as well. As far as the Bergara goes..I'll keep the action. The savage trigger system does not make me real warm and fuzzy..
Thanks for this. Really great rifle comparison series. I was hoping for your opinion on sizing dies. I bought a Wilson full length bushing die for my 28 Nosler and ever since I have guys telling me I should have bought a Redding type S die. I thought Wilson makes a good bushing die. Which sizing die do you prefer? Thank you!
Thank you for the comment Jeff. The best answer to your question from me is, which ever die gives me the best run-out after sizing. I do like Wilson stuff and have never had an issue with them. I have spent $350 for a bushing sizing die ( not mentioning names) and went back to using an RCBS non bushing die for my 243. The bushing die was knocking my necks off center. the RCBS die gave me a 0.000" run-out. I'm sure they all can make good dies but I trust Wilson.
Never had any problems lighting up 41.6 gr. H4350 with CCI BR4 primers in 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua Brass. I probably have close to 1,000 rounds with no hang fires. One thing I really like is how consistent that brass weighs from case to case and how tight those small primer pockets stay reload after reload.
I'm hoping to get my hands on some good primers like the BR4's and I do like the Lapua brass and always have. I ran a test with H4350 and did not see what I wanted to see. The Nosler brass I'm using atm I have already seen loose pockets at 6 firings... So a small pocket would be nice if I can get it to work.
Thank you for the comment :) The 6.5 looks like it's going to be a test bed for load development for sure. I think my issue with getting 264 bullets is that everyone has one lol I will be working on that 6.5 until it's shooting like a Match Rifle should shoot.
I wanted to say something about that savage bolt in that video but I forgot to. That extractor is small and has a weak spring in my opinion. I usually stop the case from flying out with my hand but I can tell it's weak. A real tight case might be an issue for that extractor.. I'm not very impressed with that bolt in general. The savage is about to under-go some run and gun action with a full mag. I will be watching the ejection closely.
I think the small primer thing is for a more precise ignition and the smaller hole in the bottom of the case provides more metal for less stretching of the primer pockets. Lapua only offers the 6.5 brass that way but Peterson offers it both large and small pockets.
I have the same savage. H4350 has been unbelievable. Its keeping under half MOA to 1k yards. It's logged multiple .25 moa 500 yard groups. For a factory rifle I don't see how you could get more accuracy
@@66branch damn, sweet shooter. Yeah I see too many people talk about or show a half MOA group at 400 or 1000 or whatever... and they're shooting 2 inches qt a hundred. The wind is taking them into a small group occasionally. Not the case here, good shooting!
@@OvertonWindex Yeah im not one of those guys that shoot one .25 moa group and call that rifle a quarter min gun. It shoots factory stuff .5- .7 moa. It shoots as good as my custom rilfes surprisingly.
In my experience, Bergara is trash. I have a B-14 HMR in 308 that will put maybe 2 out of 3 5-shot groups under an inch at 100 yards with the best load I could develop for it over 2 years. My Tikka CTR on the other hand averages under 0.5 MOA for 5-shot groups with just about any load I give it. I sent the gun back to Bergara, thinking I had a lemon. They said it met their accuracy guarantee and sent it back to me without even letting me know they were sending it back. I was away on vacation and had to pay UPS to hold it for me. Needless to say, I will never buy another Bergara product again.
I am incline to agree with you at this point. I spent some time in online groups with Bergara peeps and the send it back option was discussed. I know they do not like (voids warranty) reloads. The gun will 1moa (3 shots) given a few chances. So my next thought was to replace the barrel. With a new 26 inch stainless barrel the groups shrank by 50%. Still not good enough... Looking and reading up led me to the firing pin. The pin is coated with something that was digging in and dragging. I cleaned and polished the areas and the groups shrank . I can keep them all under an inch. Now it's time for some load tuning! Go away cold weather I have stuff to shoot..
@@rsvarminters9083 How did you change the barrel? Were you able to do this yourself with some type of prefit or did you need to to get a gunsmith to do it? I am thinking of replacing the barrel on my piece of trash Bergara. I haven’t found a way to do it that makes any sense in terms of economics. If it is under $500 I might consider it, otherwise I’ll probably cut my losses, sell it and buy a Tikka. The cheapest way I’ve found to replace a Bergara barrel is to get Bergara to do it. I’ll be damned if I’d ever give those scumbags another cent of my money. They should fix this abomination for free.
@@rsvarminters9083 I'll take a look at the firing pin for sure. The rifle as it the gunsmith who is reaching out to their Bergara rep to see if they can get Bergara to actually take the issue seriously. When I first told my gunsmith about the issue he said, "You should contact Bergara because they will want to have that rifle back.". When I told him that I already had and showed him the groups I was getting with the gun, he was stunned by their response (or lack thereof). Hopefully the second time will be a charm.
@@rsvarminters9083 ... Thank you, got it. I actually had bought a product I can't remember what it's called, but it's an abrasive product that kind of sands out the inside of the barrel gently when it's new to round down those edges and stuff. I didn't realize what you were referring to. You're a very knowledgeable guy, and I'm just kind of a advanced beginner in reloading, so any kind of details I follow most of what you're talking about but every once in a while if you could help us beginners kind of understand a little more deeply what it is you're doing, it would be great! I really like the idea of taking whatever it is you've got and figuring out a way to not only make it better, but to measure how it's better.
@@chrisnedbalek2866 The stuff I use on hard to break-in barrels is called J-B non-embedding bore cleaning compound. It's a paste of super fine compound. A good barrel won't need it usually. Both of the Creedmoor's have good barrels :)
I have a Browning A-Bolt with a BOSS system on it I was wanting to do some vids on. It's a 338 magnum light weight rifle. Not fun to shoot much lol. The barrel on it is giving me a really hard time. I might do a video on that effort to get that barrel smoother.
@@rsvarminters9083 ... I remember now. It's called fire lapping & the company is NECO. I used it on my 22-250, and I didn't test it before and after, but that rifle shot very well.
I appreciate the time you put into this video, but I don't see how this is a worthwhile comparison between of the rifles. It makes more sense to compare a few different factory loads from the rifles in the same caliber than two different calibers in several handloads. They aren't even shooting the same projectile.
You have a good point there and thank you for the comment. One of the things these two rifles have in common, that I deemed to compare, was that the factory called them Precision Rifles. The other thing that peeked my interest, and they have in common, is the Creedmoor Chambering.
I understand that using a good chambering design with controlled factory ammo while staying with-in short action spec's can produce much better results.
I would trust factory loaded Creedmoor ammo better than other chambering's, but hand loading, the one thing we can actually adjust for better results, seems to me the best way to compare these two different Factory Rifles but like you said they are two different projectiles.
This is my question also. That being said, my Savage is using 41.4 gr H4350, Starline brass, Nosler 140 RDF, and cci 34 lrp at 2750 fps.
I believe its the bullet weight to! I am getting one hole groups with the berger 140gr vld-hunting bullets at 100yards and 3/4 in at 200. Running at 2770fps.
About time someone made a comparison video of these to rifles. Great video.
Too bad he didn’t ethier
I run a Bergara BMP in 6.5 Cm. The rifle shoots like a dream.
Want to trade me? lol just kidding. We are actually pondering on putting a Rem/Age screw on barrel on that action. I'm interested in trying a set-up like that.
@@rsvarminters9083 Why a Remington barrel? Bergara makes some of the best barrels in the business. That's what the company is known for.
@@LosDoyerss Yes I know Bergara is known for great barrels. Just not this one lol. Rem/age is a new method of attaching a barrel to a 700 style action. It uses a nut like the savage does. Many barrel makers use that option now-a-days.
@@rsvarminters9083 To be honest, I have a Bergara Premier Ridgeback in 300 PRC with only 200 rounds down the tube and actually sent it in to Bergara to have the barrel exchanged due to a lot of cracks in the barrel, and not heat cracking, actual cracks that spiraled all the way down the barrel. They refused to do so and said no work was done to the barrel. Get it back and they had cut 3 thou out of the chamber and had also recut the crown of the barrel. They also had dropped my stock and messed up my bolt handle and the stock. Fortunately, they did send a replacement bolt handle and stock for the error. The rifle now can finally manage a sub MOA group at 100 yards and right around 1 MOA at 1000 yards. With that said though, the rifle is absolutely for sale as I am tired of dealing with it and my 600$ savage 110 shoots just as good if not better than it. Going to replace it with the Savage Elite Precision. Very disappointed with the Bergara to the point I bought a F Class Panda Action, a Brux barrel, and am having Alex Sitman from Masterclass make a stock for it and Alex Wheeler will be putting it all together.
@@owned323 ohhh sounds like a nice build :) I have a Defiance action coming soon and was thinking Brux as well.
As far as the Bergara goes..I'll keep the action. The savage trigger system does not make me real warm and fuzzy..
Thanks for this. Really great rifle comparison series. I was hoping for your opinion on sizing dies. I bought a Wilson full length bushing die for my 28 Nosler and ever since I have guys telling me I should have bought a Redding type S die. I thought Wilson makes a good bushing die. Which sizing die do you prefer? Thank you!
Thank you for the comment Jeff. The best answer to your question from me is, which ever die gives me the best run-out after sizing. I do like Wilson stuff and have never had an issue with them. I have spent $350 for a bushing sizing die ( not mentioning names) and went back to using an RCBS non bushing die for my 243. The bushing die was knocking my necks off center. the RCBS die gave me a 0.000" run-out. I'm sure they all can make good dies but I trust Wilson.
Never had any problems lighting up 41.6 gr. H4350 with CCI BR4 primers in 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua Brass. I probably have close to 1,000 rounds with no hang fires. One thing I really like is how consistent that brass weighs from case to case and how tight those small primer pockets stay reload after reload.
I'm hoping to get my hands on some good primers like the BR4's and I do like the Lapua brass and always have. I ran a test with H4350 and did not see what I wanted to see.
The Nosler brass I'm using atm I have already seen loose pockets at 6 firings... So a small pocket would be nice if I can get it to work.
6.5 CREED H4350 VERY GOOD RESULTS
Have you watched this vid on the 6.5 yet? ruclips.net/video/WjV91Yu0OM8/видео.html
I can't wait for the next video
Lol. Got the stuff and tossed the boxes like a kid at Christmas. If it had been me getting that stuff, I'd have done the same.
When you do find some 140gr berger vld. Try a 5rd test with cci br-2 primer, hornady brass, 38.5gr of h4350, factory coal of 2.821. 👍
Thought by headline this was suppose to be a comparison of rifle accuracy, but tends to be more of ammo rating
Any feeding issues with the savage elite looking at getting the same rifle but a lot of feeding issues with them
had it fail to feed a couple of times when fast bolting.
Apples to oranges, two different rifles, two different calibers.
Looks like fun, and the 6mm appears to be a shooter! Hopefully you can find some 140s for the 6.5.
Thank you for the comment :) The 6.5 looks like it's going to be a test bed for load development for sure. I think my issue with getting 264 bullets is that everyone has one lol
I will be working on that 6.5 until it's shooting like a Match Rifle should shoot.
Confusing comparison between rifles
42.2 gr h4350 105 berger vld. .oo5 off the lands laser beam
For the 6.5 creed.: Lapua brass, 139 scenar, 41 gr. h4350, cci250. 0.025 of lands.
Have you had ejection issues with the savage? Yet?
I wanted to say something about that savage bolt in that video but I forgot to. That extractor is small and has a weak spring in my opinion. I usually stop the case from flying out with my hand but I can tell it's weak. A real tight case might be an issue for that extractor.. I'm not very impressed with that bolt in general.
The savage is about to under-go some run and gun action with a full mag. I will be watching the ejection closely.
What is the point of the small primer. That is a lot of power in the 6.5
I think the small primer thing is for a more precise ignition and the smaller hole in the bottom of the case provides more metal for less stretching of the primer pockets.
Lapua only offers the 6.5 brass that way but Peterson offers it both large and small pockets.
Needmore vs pleasemore 😂
I have the same savage. H4350 has been unbelievable. Its keeping under half MOA to 1k yards. It's logged multiple .25 moa 500 yard groups. For a factory rifle I don't see how you could get more accuracy
Irrelevant. What are the groups at 100?
Occasional .1 consistent .2 if I do my part. That's with 108eld Lapua brass, Fed GMM primers.
@@66branch damn, sweet shooter. Yeah I see too many people talk about or show a half MOA group at 400 or 1000 or whatever... and they're shooting 2 inches qt a hundred.
The wind is taking them into a small group occasionally.
Not the case here, good shooting!
@@OvertonWindex Yeah im not one of those guys that shoot one .25 moa group and call that rifle a quarter min gun. It shoots factory stuff .5- .7 moa. It shoots as good as my custom rilfes surprisingly.
6.5mm vs 6mm.... you are not comparing apples to apples!
I was comparing factory Precision rifles. The .5 mm should not make much difference. It was not a ballistic comparison. It more about grouping.
In my experience, Bergara is trash. I have a B-14 HMR in 308 that will put maybe 2 out of 3 5-shot groups under an inch at 100 yards with the best load I could develop for it over 2 years. My Tikka CTR on the other hand averages under 0.5 MOA for 5-shot groups with just about any load I give it. I sent the gun back to Bergara, thinking I had a lemon. They said it met their accuracy guarantee and sent it back to me without even letting me know they were sending it back. I was away on vacation and had to pay UPS to hold it for me. Needless to say, I will never buy another Bergara product again.
I am incline to agree with you at this point. I spent some time in online groups with Bergara peeps and the send it back option was discussed. I know they do not like (voids warranty) reloads.
The gun will 1moa (3 shots) given a few chances.
So my next thought was to replace the barrel. With a new 26 inch stainless barrel the groups shrank by 50%. Still not good enough...
Looking and reading up led me to the firing pin. The pin is coated with something that was digging in and dragging. I cleaned and polished the areas and the groups shrank . I can keep them all under an inch. Now it's time for some load tuning!
Go away cold weather I have stuff to shoot..
@@rsvarminters9083 How did you change the barrel? Were you able to do this yourself with some type of prefit or did you need to to get a gunsmith to do it? I am thinking of replacing the barrel on my piece of trash Bergara. I haven’t found a way to do it that makes any sense in terms of economics. If it is under $500 I might consider it, otherwise I’ll probably cut my losses, sell it and buy a Tikka. The cheapest way I’ve found to replace a Bergara barrel is to get Bergara to do it. I’ll be damned if I’d ever give those scumbags another cent of my money. They should fix this abomination for free.
@@michaelhill6451 I would look into that firing pin set-up first. A dragging pin will make any gun shoot like crap.
@@rsvarminters9083 I'll take a look at the firing pin for sure. The rifle as it the gunsmith who is reaching out to their Bergara rep to see if they can get Bergara to actually take the issue seriously. When I first told my gunsmith about the issue he said, "You should contact Bergara because they will want to have that rifle back.". When I told him that I already had and showed him the groups I was getting with the gun, he was stunned by their response (or lack thereof). Hopefully the second time will be a charm.
What’s your ring height on the savage ?
I believe both scopes have the high mounts.
What does it mean "to stop pulling copper?"
When the burrs in the barrel from the machining process, are smoothed out and not scrapping copper from the bullet jackets anymore.
@@rsvarminters9083 ... Thank you, got it. I actually had bought a product I can't remember what it's called, but it's an abrasive product that kind of sands out the inside of the barrel gently when it's new to round down those edges and stuff. I didn't realize what you were referring to. You're a very knowledgeable guy, and I'm just kind of a advanced beginner in reloading, so any kind of details I follow most of what you're talking about but every once in a while if you could help us beginners kind of understand a little more deeply what it is you're doing, it would be great! I really like the idea of taking whatever it is you've got and figuring out a way to not only make it better, but to measure how it's better.
@@chrisnedbalek2866 The stuff I use on hard to break-in barrels is called J-B non-embedding bore cleaning compound. It's a paste of super fine compound. A good barrel won't need it usually. Both of the Creedmoor's have good barrels :)
I have a Browning A-Bolt with a BOSS system on it I was wanting to do some vids on. It's a 338 magnum light weight rifle. Not fun to shoot much lol. The barrel on it is giving me a really hard time. I might do a video on that effort to get that barrel smoother.
@@rsvarminters9083 ... I remember now. It's called fire lapping & the company is NECO. I used it on my 22-250, and I didn't test it before and after, but that rifle shot very well.
I haven’t seen a good group yet….
This was about a useless video on comparison of the 2 rifles in description of video.
Bergara will lose !!!!