Own them both, love them both. I agree with a lot of your points, but I want to nuance some others. In Everdell, it's true that the cards make you want them, but in the end, you mostly just wait for those cards to show up and it can be frustrating never seeing them. In Wingspan, your expectations when drafting cards are low, since you don't wait for a specific bird. Therefore, drafting cards that creates unexpected combos and synergies is a more satisfactory feeling in my opinion than finally being able to draft the card you want. I always loved this feeling of excitement when you find something you were not hoping to find. It's also true that Wingspan relies a lot on laying eggs, especially because of the end-of-rounds goal of the base game. The European Expansion corrects that problem by bringing new challenges that doesn't rely on eggs.
"I guess I'll lay eggs" could have been the entire video, and I would absolutely agree with you. The proof is in the fact that I knew you were going to say "lay eggs" as soon as the sentence started...
I've found with the base game this is common. But with the expansion, particularly once you include the new round goals, "I guess I'll lay some eggs" happens much less often.
@@jrjarvis1976 interesting...I've never thought to get either of the expansions because I never felt like it needed "more". I might have to check them out.
They add new round goals that aren't focused on eggs. And it may only be luck of the draw, but I find more often I'm building an engine I still have active things to do in the final turns that are more beneficial to eggs.
Great content as always! And while I personally disagree on some points (see below - though some of my counterpoint can come from personal preferences) I think you did an amazing job at presenting what you think is better in one game over the other. Here are a few couterpoints: - "I guess I'll lay eggs". This was my biggest criticism of the base game and it still happens with the European expansion, but FAR less often (it still happens, so it is not completely invalid, but it feels better with EUrope). A lot if the powers added in that expansion can make either cards in hand or unspend food as good as eggs for the last round. - what the expansion adds. Yes wingspan gets only cards in Europe, but those cards with the new color (triggering on round end) allow for certain strategies that were not possible in base wingspan. After 30ish games of base wingspan it certainly fealt different for me to play with the expansion, since I had to completely re-evaluate cards after seeing the explosiveness that can come from the right early round end card. And it makes the evaluation much more fluid in the sense that you have to take into consideration if you have that power in your hand or not. If you have it you have to decide if the investment into the bird is worth it to change the way you approach the game - you can simply play the way you would in the base game and discard that bird or you can go for a different approach. One more thing that help making the last round occasionally feel different are some of the new end of round scoring tiles from the expanion, where you could score for having the least eggs or the most cards in hand. - strategies. I don't see wingspan as do you go for food or eggs or cards, it is much more of an optimization "puzzle", where you maneuver yoursef into the position to get as much from public end of round goals and your private goals, given the cards you have available. In the end you will always score mayorly from eggs and birds and end of round goals, it is more about how to get to that point most efficiently (and see my points above - European expansion certainly changes this to some degree opening up the game in some completely new way, which i loved). So I guess in wingspan I shouldn't talk about strategies, but tactics - instead of trying to go for something I'll try to evaluate my hand and let that dictate in which direction I go. - really hoping for a certain card. I think wingspan has that, not as much with one specific card, but a group of cards - "please let me see a useful bird with a color in its name for my end game goal" (adding the often interesting decision if that bird isn't perfect for the situation - do you go for safer end of game scoring at the cost of a potentially weaker engine or will you gamble/give up on scoring to get the stronger engine (will it result in more points in the end?)). I actually somewhat disliked that you really need a certain person in Everdell and I think the meadow is really needed for that reason, otherwise I feel the game won't work as well. This might just be my impression after 3 or 4 games of everdell, but I prefer the wingspan way of me wanting a certain group of cards (and maybe my perception is a bit scewed, but I looove that Wingspan provides the percentages, so I have a pretty good feeling what kind of a risk I take when I make a decision without having the cards in hand). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my plays of Everdell (and I think it is a really good game), but I decided I don't need it, since I fealt Wingspan gives me a similar feeling, but I liked it better (but take this opinion with a grain of salt - as said I played maybe 4 games of Evedell and I think we are going towards 50 plays of wingspan with my wife)
I dislike Everdell's overly specific building & critter set collection/matching/pairing too, that's one of my least favourite things about the game. The extra large effective handsize with the Meadow somehow addresses it, but barely enough, especially as the Meadow cycles slower with less players That said, I've noticed that each card in the pair usually support different archetypes from one another, thus heavily incentivising players to play both of them also means subtly guiding them to run multiple combos/strategies at once, further reducing the risk of random card screwage
I love both these games, but there is something about Everdell that makes me smile like a big kid with the cute animal workers and gorgeous artwork. The tree is gratuitous and awesome 😄
I won't argue which game is better, since I have never played Everdell, but I do not agree with some of your assessments regarding wingspan. As a disclaimer, most of my wingspan experience comes from 2 player games, green scorecard (I point this out because I believe Wingspan experience is different depending on the number of players). Yes, the options are limited, but not to 3 possible strategies. Basic are, indeed, good, eggs, or cards, but also playing birds (specially with the expansions). Then comes mixing the objectives: should I enrich my egg engine with food to score points, food to play birds for its points or my bonus cards, add card abilities or add more to lay eggs so I spend more time on other objectives. If your last option is thinking "well, I will lay some eggs", you are playing it the wrong way. Each action, each turn should focus on how I make more points per turn: most of the time I found myself in a situation where my last 5 turns have better options than laying eggs (specially after the expansions that kind of balance the game). At first I also thought luck had a a lot to do with the performance of the players. After 500 documented games (there should be more) I've learned that is not the case. You have to count, you have an idea of the proportion of the cards, how likely it is for something to play out, take high risk high reward movements or stick to secure moves. In a 1v1 situation you can also time your moves, read your opponent to block its plan, delay your plan to detour to other actions so it affects your opponent. I just saw a tournament match, the loser got a bird winning combination, yet the other guy, the winner, played really well so the opponent had no chance to profit on its lucky hand. Of course, there are bad games, but most of the time I blame my inability to make a bad hand work. Also, my score has constantly increased, so has my girlfriend's score. I cannot believe how many times our games end in a tie above 100 points (no expansions), given the endless possibilities. The more you play, the less you let luck ruin your game or compromise it (better say, learn how to deal with it). By no means I say wingspan is a perfect game, or all its mechanics work. Perhaps I love this game so much that I have found ways to work around its pros and cons. What the hell, perhaps after all I wrote someone will tell me what you like about Wingspan, Everdell does it better, and I will give it a try haha. I did not like the first segment of your video, which talked about your impressions of the game, but I get it. Just so you know, my friends and I do get excited about playing a bird, we even call by name some when we see them on the wild. Wingspan has made me more observant towards nature and change my preconceptions about boardgames. Fantasy is not all that shines.
You mention that there is a bigger branching tree of strategies, but that is a double edged sword that often works against you. By mid game, you get set down a path and if you don't get that one card, your game can effectively be over then. Wingspan has fewer open strategies but definitely has much more means of getting to that. It is more rewarding to know that if I lost, it is because my ability to string things together right was poor, rather than my strategy couldn't be finished as to whether it would work or not. Everdell, a great game, is not finishing and taking your ability out of your hands. Wingspan, a better game, is a loss by poor playing, entirely within your own skill and ability.
I don't agree. No strategy in Everdell will lock you out of playing. No one card is make it or break it. The game is all about adapting to the available cards. It is possible you have focused on common critters and a school, but if it is available and you have the resources to sling it, changing tactics mid game can often be better than staying true. I feel like every season in Everdell is effectively a mini strategy choice in itself. Never have what I did in spring been a big determining factor in what I do in fall. Perhaps with the exception of my one time perfect monastry game. Which was beyond lucky. I might agree that Wingspan is more open because more of the cards do similar things. But Everdell's breadth of card abilities means you have to diversify. So I am not so sure.
I haven't played Wingspan (I know I might be the only board gamer alive who hasn't lol), but I think you made great arguments, and I bet I'd still agree with you even after playing Wingspan :D
I love this video - although many will complain that games shouldn't be compared like this, I think the majority of us love it :) After all, look how much engagement this video already has! I agree with every single point you made. Every time I play Everdell, it just gets better (have you tried Spirecrest yet? Amazing!). Wingspan is fun, but I just didn't feel rewarded. I couldn't look down at my bird refuge and see the results of my own decision, but the results of card draws. I love the birds, and I love learning about them, but Everdell's tableau building and action chaining is far superior.
I agree! :D But more seriously I think Everdell is a better game (maybe my bias towards worker placement) but Wingspan is more family friendly. I'm still going to have a look at the counterpart video :)
I am not sure that either is really family friendly. I think both of these look far more approachable than they are. I have taught both to experienced gamers and it took time for all to catch and grok everything.
After about 20 games of wingspan I can assure you that if all you're doing on your last turn is laying eggs, in most cases you didn't plan your last actions well enough. Unless the eggs fulfill other bigger scoring conditions there are usually easier ways to get more points per turn. People always complain about that but I've found that as players gain more experience in the game it happens less and less. But maybe that's just what I've seen. Both of these games are great and I don't really know which one I prefer
@@BoardGameCo Wow... I have been surprised lately how many of my youtubers are doing reviews of games with very few plays -- such that I realize I, who am not a reviewer, have played the game much more. How do you evaluate a complicated game after just a handful of plays?
We have both and love both. Both games get better each time we play them. But Everdell IS better. How many times have I said, even though egg laying is never my strategy, "I guess I'll lay eggs"!? Every time.
Okay I listened to both of you before commenting... Great idea. I can see both points from each perspective and I do love both of these game. For me Everdell is so reliant on that Meadow that in a two player game you may see endgame card in the beginning of the game and production cards at the end of the game. Luck of the draw. BGG has 2 player variants because of this. And yes lay eggs ( if you have nothing else to do.) I will play either and can not really pick one over the other. But I hear ya.
Well let Jesse do whatever he wants ;-) but you have my vote Alex. Everdell wins it for me too. Art, immersiveness, build-up and the Spirecrest expansion! Love the game. Wingspan is nice, but I feel it's been hyped a bit too much. And the times I played it, I wasn't in as I am with Everdell..
This is an opinion, but I firmly believe Everdell is alsoo better than Terraforming Mars. Better art, better componentes, right length timewise, still a tableau builder and engine builder, and better expansions. Also Everdell is excellent out of the box, while TM lacks in so many aspects and most ppl will tell you to buy Prelude to "fix" the experience.
When you play wingspan more you figure out how to get a high score with any starting cards. When we started we thought it was limited somewhat on an egg laying strategy. It is not it just may seem that way as it's the most obvious. Bonus is that I can play wingspan with anyone including new boardgame players. I think its perfect for its weight and niche
Try the egg laying strategy against a Wingspan player who knows what they are doing and you will lose every time. I thought that was the way as well until I got better at the game.
Both are great games. I found Wingspan easier to teach and more approachable to non gamers. My biggest beef with Everdell is you need to keep track of player tableau's. I think both can easily fit into someones collection pretty easily. That said I own Wingspan and do not own Everdell. Not because I like one more then the other but because Wingspan offers something a little more unique in its weight; at least in my collection.
I feel you made valid points on your criticism of Wingspan. Bottom line is, Wingspan is a point salad, gamer's game kind of game - meaning it's a mechanically sound game. The cards are mechanics, they do things for you, and are not actual individual birds (there are several that give you the same thing you want, or give you stuff you can build up with your current set, stuff like that). The expansions don't build up on the core game, like Everdell does. The endgame of Wingspan is mostly the same everytime (though I've gone for different things on those final turns on purpose so as to see what the game rewards, and it works to varying degrees). That said, I still consider Wingspan the better game - and I have one very simple reason: the comparison lies on both games being "family games". Well, the accessibility of Wingspan is waaaaaaaaay higher than Everdell. It is easy to teach, easy and fast to play, doesn't require you to remender minute rules, it lays out all you can do in front of you (in oposition to Everdell - teaching what tableau building to people who never even played boardgames is so immaterial that makes the game inaccessible), and it is easy to pick right back up because after a couple of turns the rules are solid and clear in your head, and easy to remember. So if you're having family gatherings, welcoming people in your home, it is much easier to introduce Wingspan than it is Everdell. And also, it is over far quicker, and is just as rewarding in a shorter amount of time. A game not overstaying its welcome with people who aren't gamers is a big plus. These make Wingspan more "family friendly" than Everdell.
The only thing wingspan has up over everdell is the game length. Everdell consistently last 2 hours or more when I play it whereas wingspan can be as short as 30 minutes. But other than that oh, I tend to think everdell is better. When you mentioned the components, I had a realization. People don't typically upgrade the everdell components whereas almost everyone upgrade multiple aspects of wingspan. If that doesn't speak for in the box components I don't know what does. For the wingspan last round egg-laying strategy, the expansion help boost other strategies in the game making them more viable. But with base game wingspan, you're always just laying eggs in round 4
I disagree with the strategies reason for wingspan and the cards reason and it goes hand in hand. for wingspan you are balancing the need for food, bird cards and eggs because you need all three. they are not individual strategies. by building your best engine on the board you are hopefully achieving one that means you can ignore another (for example having cards that let you pick up new birds and food in the egg row). Also the fun part with the cards is that a card that would have been amazing at the start is almost useless toward the end or a card that is good at the end is unattainable at the start. there is also a switching point where you need to let the engine run and begin to really prioritise points. The expansions also added other point systems (nectar), new goal cards and end of round goals. also new card mechanisms (end of round/game actions).
I love everdell. It looks better to me and the theme resonates more with me. I can appreciate that a game about birds has done so well but it does nothing for me personally.
I had 2 copies of wingspan (Jumped into the hype) both have been traded in to boardgameco. because they have a high value all in less than 3 months. My biggest issue with Wingspan is the amount of initial luck necessary to have a good game.
Everdell is significantly better game. As far as concerning the theme, for me wingspan is themeless. It's just birds flying around. I mean whats the deal? What's the theme? Everdell has theme plus it tells a story. I can easily see it as a successful anime by Walt Disney. For ppl who play wingspan before everdell, wingspan is a anice little game. I was already sold to everdell when I tried wingspan, and after a couple of plays... Meh.
OMG, my niece just whooped me 72-49. I was done, then with her last move she unlocked a storehouse of berries, took the Tax relief (another production phase) and gave them berries to the minor mole who copied my doctor. Did it again with the chip sweep, picked up and then played the husband in the last free spot and also had a monk who gave me the remaining berries and then used my post office to burn for points. Scored like 20+ points. She’s eight! Yeah she has been copying a few of my combos, but chaining all that together was...
I played Wingspan about 12 times and it left my collection. Everdell has been played about 12 times and it is in my top 10. EVERDELL is a much more variable and enjoyable game. I always end my game of EVERDELL satisfied and am ready to play again.
Everdell is basically me and my wife's favorite! It is the type of game that works as a date night game, a cold night with hot chocolate game, a weekend with friends game, and a family game - love it!
I like Wingspan better than Everdell. Why? First the price point is better. Excellent gameplay is possible with only the base set. Upgrading some of the components is good but, not essential to do. Engine building and tableau building are some of my favorite mechanics. The bird cards are a visual treat. There are so many in the base set. This makes replayability another plus. There are a reduced number of actions as the rounds advance. That is not a problem. In no other game can you say, “Acres and acres of Tweety Birds!”.
If you are only laying eggs in the last round or two, you probably failed to build a solid engine and end game strategy. Also, losing a turn each round adds to the tension - which I like. Whereas in Everdell the same could be said regarding the last rounds. There have been many games where someone has filled up their village, have an abundance of workers and materials but nothing meaningful to do with them. Great video! Love the comparison.
Two reasons I like Wingspan. I haven't played Everdell but perhaps I will try it. 1. This level of game is good for playing with my family. Wingspan is fun whether you are serious or not and easy to play with my (mostly not gaming) family. 2. Birds are dinosaurs. You can see many of the dinosaurs in the game out your window or on a walk. Dinosaurs.
I'm purchasing Everdell today, sold Wingspan a few months back. You nailed it with the statement about how all the birds "blurred together". Correct. Beautiful art, but at a point the cards just became....cards. The game left me very unsatisfied.
I've been playing both a lot and I have switched my favor to Wingspan. Everdell does a lot right but the expansions don't blend as well imo. I love being able to just take any/every expansion for wingspan and it doesn't bog down gameplay
Wingspan base is better. Everdell base game at least is pretty cookie cutter. Resources, fill up tableau, discard bad cards to make room for better cards. The goals are way too random. My everdell base tAbleau always seems to look the same. Wingspan makes you think a little more as you have to make the most of what you have. I think both games have the same tension of... I need that one card!!! Funny how we see the same points completely differently. :)
Everdell surelly is a nice game, but there is one thing that Wingspan managed to achive, wich no other boardgame ever did befor. Wingspan brought me to appreciate and participate in a new aspect of reallity. I now go out and can name most of the birds i see and hear, now i care about nesting grounds and migrationrouts and that is awsome. And i think Everdell gamewise is the better game but Wingspan brought me an entire ne passion "the World of the birds" and that's why for me its nr.1.
It seems that Jesse's best reason is the flip side of your Reason 3. And heavily relying on cards that might or might not show up is the main reason why I am not more eager to play Everdell.
Never played Everdell so I can't compare, but here some comments: Theme: I agree that critters/Redwallish theme "itself" is more interesting than birdwatching, but in the boardgame hobby, I feel like Wingspan has a more unique and appealing theme, while Everdell came out the same year as another Behemoth with a similar theme (Root). Might be why Wingspan caught my eye way faster than Everdell did. Cards that makes you want them: I agree that Wingspan does not have that, but it is also a double edge sword for Everdell. If you don't get "that one" card 2-3 games in a row, it might ruin some players desire to play the game again. Wingspan "plays it safe" by having many cards with similar powers while from what I understand, Everdell will create potential memorable moments...good or bad (mostly good ones I assume). Better expansions: You are right about this one so far. While not being bad, Wingspan first expansion is safe. The new one seems better, bring something new to the table and will boost the food action and nerf the lay egg action (which , I agree, is most of the time my 1-2 last actions of the game haha). Anyway, while I didn't play Everdell yet, I feel Wingspan deserve that top "family game" spot because its the only game I own (and know of) that can bring to the table my heavy strategy boardgame friends, my "the only boardgames I play are Yathzee or What do you Meme" friends, and family members that wanna try it because they like birds. While I really want to try Everdell now (thanks to you and Quackalope), I don't think it'll be able to acheive that same "impact" even if it ends up beeing an amazing game for me. Make more of these videos; these are awesome! oh and Quack!
I think there are enough cards that people will want - that loosing out on one is rarely so devastating as to ruin an experience. It will surely feel like a defeat from time to time, but it will also often open players up to other opportunities with less competition. With that being said. I would personally agree with your conclusion 100%. Everdell looks like a family game, but I honestly don't think it is. It is deceivingly complex, kind of like root, people will be pulled in by the theme, and they might stay for the complexity, but they might also be scared off. In a way I find Everdell more intimidating than root. Because while root is quite complex to master because of it's asymmetry, each turn is quite simple and easy to understand. A single turn, or rather season, can get quite complex in Everdell.
There is no argument that Wingspan is far from a great game - it's 'ok' as a game. But the strength and popularity of Wingspan isn't due to its game design - it's the experience and enjoyment of handling 170 different birds (200+ with expansions). My wife and I've played Wingspan 50+ times but everytime I forget how 'just ok' the gameplay is - because I love love love seeing the birds so much. With minimal setup, we can set it up, play and pack it up well under an hour. We love Everdell too (20+ plays) but it does start to feel more repetitive than Wingspan because you start to see same cards over and over again. Everdell + expansion definitely offer more strategic paths, but I really think games like Wingspan is less about winning strategies and more about enjoyment.
@@BoardGameCo not saying Everdell's theme isn't interesting - actually the theme/mechanic immersion and the combo of animals/buildings are so well interwined that none of its expansions could introduce new cards without breaking that fine balance. It's really a great joy to see how each combos work thematically and mechanically in Everdell. As for Wingspan, I think there are enough bird lovers (or at least those who find the artwork attractive) out there for SMG to sell over 100K copies. Wingspan is a classic 'wife' game - if my wife likes it, it will get played. Also like to add that, to me, BGG ranking means nothing more than a popularity contest. It completely fails at ranking the greatness of games. It means nothing to me that Wingspan ranks higher than Everdell.
I only played Everdell once, and I wasn't impressed. However the very first time I played Wingspan, I got hooked immediately! It might be me not expecting much from a game about birds though. Now I think I should give Everdell another shot.
I think building the engine in everdell is just quite challenging for a first time playthrough, and I know for a lot of people that will make an impact. I felt like I learned while playing in Wingspan, and I learned only after I lost when I played everdell.
I love both games, and even if Wingspan can be clunky, we play it a lot more than Everdell. The reason is, my girlfriend always says she cant wrap her head around the sheer amount of usable cards on the table in the late game. As a gamer, I think Everdell is better, but from a casual perspective, Wingspan is a lot less daunting. Also she loves birds a lot.
Another great video and an interesting comparison between 2 games that I own. All 8 points are valid and I agree with each and every one of them. Funnily though, Wingspan hits our table more often than Everdell and the reason is also quite easy to understand (you mentioned this yourself): - accessabilty: I have no regular gaming group of players that often and excessively play boardgames instead I play with my family (wife and 2 kids aged 10 and 12 atm) and with their friends or the grandparents etc. and it is a big plus if you can teach a game in approx. 5-10 minutes - simplicity: strongly connected to the first point: Not only are the rules easier to grasp but also the layout of the game and the more limited amount of choices make the gameflow better and the game is not as prone to AP as Everdell - gametime: a result of the first points: The game is quicker and seldom takes more than 1 hour whereas Everdell has regularly taken us 2 hours to finish I think as always the result depends on several factors but the most influencial imo is the group you are plaing the game with. As someone who owns a lot of games that tend to be on the heavier side (my all time favourite Top 10 games are: Twilight Struggle, Mage Knight, Robinson Crusoe, Fire in the Lake, Nemesis, Enemy Action Ardennes, X-Odus, Fields of Fire, Underwater Cities and Spirit Island) I wholeheartedly agree that Everdell is the better game mechanically and component wise but Wingspan is a favourite of the more 'average' gamers in my personal environment...
Wingspan > everdell. My wife and I enjoy playing it together. Everdell left me wanting more in solo and my wife loved the look of everdell but did not like the game very much. Maybe she will like it more in the future. I would sell everdell now if not for my young daughters and that they might play it in the future. Wingspan expansions make it even better. Wingspan on PC is also awesome and they way to play the game solo.
I don’t really like games with quite a bit of luck but wingspan is so popular and I like the look and theme and thinking of a board game haul I’m getting Everdell I’m just wondering shall I get wingspan to?.
I really enjoyed both, Quackalope's episode and yours... i watched Quakalope's and was convinced.. then i watched yours, now i'm back on the fence in a state of analysis paralysis..
I watched this with my wife, and she asked me afterword which one I would like. I said Wingspan. Then she returned the copy of Everdell she had bought me for Christmas and replaced it with Wingspan. Not the result you might have intended, but it was very helpful!
This Wingspan talk, that's a female designer, right? Great topic-tip for your next video: Where are the female boardgame designers/lack thereof? - Genuine question.
Both games are popular. Both games are medium heavy. Both games are medium good enginebuilder. So why to compare them. They dont need to be compared? Theres much better engine/deckbuilder out there. for me both are just a 7/10. ez skip.
Everdell all the way! Sorry Jesse Everdell is way cuter with better components and is the gamers game. I feel like Wingspan is gateway and agree with Alex on the limited winning strategies for Wingspan. Don’t get me wrong I will play it but I prefer Everdell solo or group play every time. #TeamEverdell
I love those cross videos on both of your and Quackalope channel. I'm also proud of myself that I was a subscriber to both of channels before you become friends :D and was a witness of beginning of that friendship :)
It is better. But Imperial Settlers and Empires of the North are leagues above these two so it's hard to consider ever owning either of these two again.
Why do you even compare those super different games. Can you also make a video and compare Stratego with Risk - Both are games of WAR?¤#%#" No offence - thanks for your contribution to the boardgame community, I like your videos. But I don't agree that these can be compared in ANY way.
@@BoardGameCo yes, I saw it also other places. Probably because they target more or less same target group. Maybe a relevant title could be "Which game to buy, Everdell or Wingspan" My answer would be - by BOTH, if you like. They are both good and not an either or 😀
Uhhh I’m going to sound like a hypocrite right now but I came close to purchasing everdell many times but the theme keeps making me lose interest. Now I said the same about wingspan I thought the theme was ridiculous and uninteresting but then wingspan ended up being one of my favorite games ever. If I get everdell my fiancée will make fun of me 😆
I like both games, but Wingspan does feel like if Bob Ross and MacGyver had a baby. I always feel like I am limited in strategy based on what starting cards I get, and always run out of time to truly adjust on the "fly." :) Everdell 9/10, Wingspan 8/10, but would play either if anyone suggested a game. In that sense, they both win.
I agree. Taking a worker placement game that has card play, versus a tableau building/engine building game are not the same. I see what you are saying here, but disagree. If they felt similar to me, I would only need one in my collection. I also think the new expansion for Wingspan makes it far easier to get more birds played and make a player feel more agency.
What makes Everdell one of the top games in my collection is how it is deceivingly complex. How every time I play it I feel a better mastery of the game. How every time I play it I get dragged deeper into the hole that is optimizing your turn. With that being said, it is also one of the reasons Everdell gets less and less table time. Because my experience with Everdell is that, the more you play, the longer it will take. It is a strange monster in that regard. It is entirely enjoyable as a simple slightly superficial game with lots of enjoyable art and theme. However, the game offers a lot in reactionary strategy and with a big potential for combo making. The game feels so tight in it's first round, yet with the right combination of cards you can do so much, but it requires some thinking and adaptability. I find the puzzle so enjoyable because every time I try to find the solution, despite the fact that I probably wont find it, I will find a solution, and that solution will feel satisfactory. In fact, in many ways. I would argue that Everdell is the only game in my collection that will feel that intense from round one, that will ramp that intensity up with every season, where you will find it hard to limit yourself. Oh how many times I found the optimization puzzle too enticing. To the point that I loose out on big end game scoring opportunities because my village is filling up too quickly. While many other games, that I love and some that I probably hold above it, will give me the same feeling in very enjoyable bits. Everdell, once you invest in the experience, has the potential to be that from the very start. To be fair. I have also had less than stellar games of Everdell, especially in the beginning where I could not find ways to fully adapt to the cards being offered. And I have found myself relying too much on certain combos, which means loosing out on them could potentially feel like a big loss. However, because the game seems to open up more and more every time I play it. I also feel like those times are where the game really shines. When I am challenged to not only use what feels comfortable, but perhaps find new ways to optimize my cards with other combinations. Like the game I did manage to activate the monastery 4 times and I happened to draw the monk in the last season, while the monastery goal card was in play. It was amazing. Or the game where the 2 last turns was all about trying to manage who would end up with the pirate ship, which was especially important to me because it occupied the last space in my village and I desperately needed a big scoring card to make up for my earlier successes at the optimizing challenge. I actually think that Wingspan and Everdell fills quite different niches, at least they would to me. Because Everdell is no longer a beautiful game that comes to the table to bring in the uninitiated. Everdell has become a 3 hour battle for survival like no other, and I love it for it. But I also wish, it did not become quite so intimidating to bring to the table because of it. And though I would not trade this games presentation for the world. It was easily one of the reasons I got it in the first place. It does take up a lot of table space, probably quite a bit more than it should, which does bring it's own challenges when it comes to playing the game with more than 2-3 players.
I haven't tried Everdell and yet I agree with you that it's a better game. I absolutely hate the theme of Wingspan, it actively kept me from trying it for a long time, and when I finally did, such a disappointment.. I love engine building, it's one of my favorite mechanisms, but in Wingspan because you can do less and less actions, it takes away the satisfying feeling that engine building usually gives me towards the end of a game. Still have it because I wonder if I played it wrong, so I want to revisit the rules and try again, but for now it sits as the game I own that I like the least.
Maybe you aren’t as familiar with Wingspan, so you don’t know what bird powers you need to draw. It might not be a specific bird, but sometimes I go searching for specific birds, like tucking birds, humming birds, ravens, or wood peckers, or sometimes I want the Atlantic Puffin or Bald Eagle. The Chihuahuan Raven and Common Raven resonate with most Wingspan players.
Theme and mechanics? The birds migrate away after each round. They can only be played in their actual habitats. Birds that tolerate other birds have flocking powers. Egg spaces and food requirements mimick real life. Etc. Etc. Etc. Everdell...why do animals need amber for anything? Where are the nuts? Where is the circle of life? No one gets eaten. Where are the mice kids? Where are the partners for animals other than mice?
Laying eggs is a fine action; it’s the safe bet. Maybe the expansions added powers, but if you have a good engine, you don’t need to always resort to laying eggs for the best play.
@@Poiuytrew.Q Well thematically for Everdell, it's played out over a single year (4 rounds/seasons), so there's not much scope for circle of life/kids in that time frame. The animals need resin (it's not amber) to apply like concrete and glue the wood/stone together for the buildings they make. Why do they need nuts? They have berry fields.
Squishy components are a reason😂 you need a european expansion for wingspan, it becomes less locked in and with oceania its just a full package. Its different experiences, you are too dramatic, its just board games. Also the skill is important, it seems you are just not so good at wingspan
I used to think that Everdell's forced pairs would only restrict you and make your tactics depend on card draw. While it still does those to some degree, I noticed that most cards in those pairs belong to different combos/archetypes, which cleverly pushes players to prepare for multiple random outcomes rather than lock onto just one
Thanks so much! I was one of the developers of Everdell so appreciate the praise. I'm so glad to see so many loving both games.
Oh hey :) Color me a fan then. Now I just need to play all the expansions :)
@@BoardGameCo interested to hear what you think! Spirecrest is my personal favorite though I probably shouldn’t pick favorites ;)
And did an awesome job! My personal top 1 game!
You are missed in the Everdell community!
@@SapSapient was she the one behind the publisher's BGG account?
James is active there too isn't he?
Own them both, love them both. I agree with a lot of your points, but I want to nuance some others. In Everdell, it's true that the cards make you want them, but in the end, you mostly just wait for those cards to show up and it can be frustrating never seeing them. In Wingspan, your expectations when drafting cards are low, since you don't wait for a specific bird. Therefore, drafting cards that creates unexpected combos and synergies is a more satisfactory feeling in my opinion than finally being able to draft the card you want. I always loved this feeling of excitement when you find something you were not hoping to find. It's also true that Wingspan relies a lot on laying eggs, especially because of the end-of-rounds goal of the base game. The European Expansion corrects that problem by bringing new challenges that doesn't rely on eggs.
"I guess I'll lay eggs" could have been the entire video, and I would absolutely agree with you. The proof is in the fact that I knew you were going to say "lay eggs" as soon as the sentence started...
Yes! I didn't even think of that one but 3 Min Board Games did a solid job there!
My first game ended exactly like this.
I've found with the base game this is common. But with the expansion, particularly once you include the new round goals, "I guess I'll lay some eggs" happens much less often.
@@jrjarvis1976 interesting...I've never thought to get either of the expansions because I never felt like it needed "more". I might have to check them out.
They add new round goals that aren't focused on eggs. And it may only be luck of the draw, but I find more often I'm building an engine I still have active things to do in the final turns that are more beneficial to eggs.
Great content as always! And while I personally disagree on some points (see below - though some of my counterpoint can come from personal preferences) I think you did an amazing job at presenting what you think is better in one game over the other.
Here are a few couterpoints:
- "I guess I'll lay eggs". This was my biggest criticism of the base game and it still happens with the European expansion, but FAR less often (it still happens, so it is not completely invalid, but it feels better with EUrope). A lot if the powers added in that expansion can make either cards in hand or unspend food as good as eggs for the last round.
- what the expansion adds. Yes wingspan gets only cards in Europe, but those cards with the new color (triggering on round end) allow for certain strategies that were not possible in base wingspan. After 30ish games of base wingspan it certainly fealt different for me to play with the expansion, since I had to completely re-evaluate cards after seeing the explosiveness that can come from the right early round end card. And it makes the evaluation much more fluid in the sense that you have to take into consideration if you have that power in your hand or not. If you have it you have to decide if the investment into the bird is worth it to change the way you approach the game - you can simply play the way you would in the base game and discard that bird or you can go for a different approach.
One more thing that help making the last round occasionally feel different are some of the new end of round scoring tiles from the expanion, where you could score for having the least eggs or the most cards in hand.
- strategies. I don't see wingspan as do you go for food or eggs or cards, it is much more of an optimization "puzzle", where you maneuver yoursef into the position to get as much from public end of round goals and your private goals, given the cards you have available. In the end you will always score mayorly from eggs and birds and end of round goals, it is more about how to get to that point most efficiently (and see my points above - European expansion certainly changes this to some degree opening up the game in some completely new way, which i loved).
So I guess in wingspan I shouldn't talk about strategies, but tactics - instead of trying to go for something I'll try to evaluate my hand and let that dictate in which direction I go.
- really hoping for a certain card. I think wingspan has that, not as much with one specific card, but a group of cards - "please let me see a useful bird with a color in its name for my end game goal" (adding the often interesting decision if that bird isn't perfect for the situation - do you go for safer end of game scoring at the cost of a potentially weaker engine or will you gamble/give up on scoring to get the stronger engine (will it result in more points in the end?)).
I actually somewhat disliked that you really need a certain person in Everdell and I think the meadow is really needed for that reason, otherwise I feel the game won't work as well. This might just be my impression after 3 or 4 games of everdell, but I prefer the wingspan way of me wanting a certain group of cards (and maybe my perception is a bit scewed, but I looove that Wingspan provides the percentages, so I have a pretty good feeling what kind of a risk I take when I make a decision without having the cards in hand).
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my plays of Everdell (and I think it is a really good game), but I decided I don't need it, since I fealt Wingspan gives me a similar feeling, but I liked it better (but take this opinion with a grain of salt - as said I played maybe 4 games of Evedell and I think we are going towards 50 plays of wingspan with my wife)
I dislike Everdell's overly specific building & critter set collection/matching/pairing too, that's one of my least favourite things about the game. The extra large effective handsize with the Meadow somehow addresses it, but barely enough, especially as the Meadow cycles slower with less players
That said, I've noticed that each card in the pair usually support different archetypes from one another, thus heavily incentivising players to play both of them also means subtly guiding them to run multiple combos/strategies at once, further reducing the risk of random card screwage
I love both these games, but there is something about Everdell that makes me smile like a big kid with the cute animal workers and gorgeous artwork. The tree is gratuitous and awesome 😄
I won't argue which game is better, since I have never played Everdell, but I do not agree with some of your assessments regarding wingspan. As a disclaimer, most of my wingspan experience comes from 2 player games, green scorecard (I point this out because I believe Wingspan experience is different depending on the number of players).
Yes, the options are limited, but not to 3 possible strategies. Basic are, indeed, good, eggs, or cards, but also playing birds (specially with the expansions). Then comes mixing the objectives: should I enrich my egg engine with food to score points, food to play birds for its points or my bonus cards, add card abilities or add more to lay eggs so I spend more time on other objectives. If your last option is thinking "well, I will lay some eggs", you are playing it the wrong way. Each action, each turn should focus on how I make more points per turn: most of the time I found myself in a situation where my last 5 turns have better options than laying eggs (specially after the expansions that kind of balance the game).
At first I also thought luck had a a lot to do with the performance of the players. After 500 documented games (there should be more) I've learned that is not the case. You have to count, you have an idea of the proportion of the cards, how likely it is for something to play out, take high risk high reward movements or stick to secure moves. In a 1v1 situation you can also time your moves, read your opponent to block its plan, delay your plan to detour to other actions so it affects your opponent. I just saw a tournament match, the loser got a bird winning combination, yet the other guy, the winner, played really well so the opponent had no chance to profit on its lucky hand. Of course, there are bad games, but most of the time I blame my inability to make a bad hand work. Also, my score has constantly increased, so has my girlfriend's score. I cannot believe how many times our games end in a tie above 100 points (no expansions), given the endless possibilities. The more you play, the less you let luck ruin your game or compromise it (better say, learn how to deal with it).
By no means I say wingspan is a perfect game, or all its mechanics work. Perhaps I love this game so much that I have found ways to work around its pros and cons. What the hell, perhaps after all I wrote someone will tell me what you like about Wingspan, Everdell does it better, and I will give it a try haha. I did not like the first segment of your video, which talked about your impressions of the game, but I get it. Just so you know, my friends and I do get excited about playing a bird, we even call by name some when we see them on the wild. Wingspan has made me more observant towards nature and change my preconceptions about boardgames. Fantasy is not all that shines.
You mention that there is a bigger branching tree of strategies, but that is a double edged sword that often works against you.
By mid game, you get set down a path and if you don't get that one card, your game can effectively be over then.
Wingspan has fewer open strategies but definitely has much more means of getting to that.
It is more rewarding to know that if I lost, it is because my ability to string things together right was poor, rather than my strategy couldn't be finished as to whether it would work or not.
Everdell, a great game, is not finishing and taking your ability out of your hands. Wingspan, a better game, is a loss by poor playing, entirely within your own skill and ability.
THIS
I don't agree. No strategy in Everdell will lock you out of playing. No one card is make it or break it. The game is all about adapting to the available cards. It is possible you have focused on common critters and a school, but if it is available and you have the resources to sling it, changing tactics mid game can often be better than staying true.
I feel like every season in Everdell is effectively a mini strategy choice in itself. Never have what I did in spring been a big determining factor in what I do in fall. Perhaps with the exception of my one time perfect monastry game. Which was beyond lucky.
I might agree that Wingspan is more open because more of the cards do similar things. But Everdell's breadth of card abilities means you have to diversify. So I am not so sure.
I haven't played Wingspan (I know I might be the only board gamer alive who hasn't lol), but I think you made great arguments, and I bet I'd still agree with you even after playing Wingspan :D
Oh you will :)
I love this video - although many will complain that games shouldn't be compared like this, I think the majority of us love it :) After all, look how much engagement this video already has!
I agree with every single point you made. Every time I play Everdell, it just gets better (have you tried Spirecrest yet? Amazing!). Wingspan is fun, but I just didn't feel rewarded. I couldn't look down at my bird refuge and see the results of my own decision, but the results of card draws. I love the birds, and I love learning about them, but Everdell's tableau building and action chaining is far superior.
There are a few comments pushing back against comparing...but most are pretty positive :)
@@BoardGameCo Yeah the people around here are pretty great :)
I agree! :D But more seriously I think Everdell is a better game (maybe my bias towards worker placement) but Wingspan is more family friendly.
I'm still going to have a look at the counterpart video :)
I haven't yet watched the counterpoint...I need to.
I am not sure that either is really family friendly. I think both of these look far more approachable than they are. I have taught both to experienced gamers and it took time for all to catch and grok everything.
Wingspan gets much more interesting once you understand all the cards are good and it just matters when you get them.
Agreed!
After about 20 games of wingspan I can assure you that if all you're doing on your last turn is laying eggs, in most cases you didn't plan your last actions well enough. Unless the eggs fulfill other bigger scoring conditions there are usually easier ways to get more points per turn. People always complain about that but I've found that as players gain more experience in the game it happens less and less.
But maybe that's just what I've seen. Both of these games are great and I don't really know which one I prefer
I'll happily cede to your experience...I only have 3 plays.
@@BoardGameCo Wow... I have been surprised lately how many of my youtubers are doing reviews of games with very few plays -- such that I realize I, who am not a reviewer, have played the game much more. How do you evaluate a complicated game after just a handful of plays?
The ability of this guy to speak so articulately with no cuts to the video is remarkable
I really appreciate that. Thank you 🙂
If I played Wingspan a couple of times and didn’t enjoy it, is it a safe bet that I wouldn’t like this?
Nope. I did not really like Wingspan, but Everdell is in my top 5. Very different games.
We have both and love both. Both games get better each time we play them. But Everdell IS better. How many times have I said, even though egg laying is never my strategy, "I guess I'll lay eggs"!? Every time.
Lol yes. Still a fun game but those last rounds...
Okay I listened to both of you before commenting... Great idea. I can see both points from each perspective and I do love both of these game. For me Everdell is so reliant on that Meadow that in a two player game you may see endgame card in the beginning of the game and production cards at the end of the game. Luck of the draw. BGG has 2 player variants because of this. And yes lay eggs ( if you have nothing else to do.) I will play either and can not really pick one over the other. But I hear ya.
The Meadow cycling also doesn't scale well to 2 players, which is something that those 2p variants often fix
There's a border variant for Everdell that fixes the 2P issues.
I see what you guys are doing. I may have to go with Jessie on this one.
It's ok, I still like having you around :)
I love both and will play both whenever asked. But if I get to pick, I will pick Everdell without hesitation.
Fair enough :)
This is an observation and not a bad thing: Alex sounds like a minister/inspirational speaker/Ted Talk giver.
I own, and have played, both games several times and agree that Everdell is my preferred game. It is one of my favourite games.
Yes! Both are excellent....but degrees of excellent are different :)
Would you settle for I own and love wingspan and all the expansions but just backed the complete edition of Everdell? XD
I'd settle for enjoy what you enjoy :) I'm just one data point :)
Well let Jesse do whatever he wants ;-) but you have my vote Alex. Everdell wins it for me too. Art, immersiveness, build-up and the Spirecrest expansion! Love the game. Wingspan is nice, but I feel it's been hyped a bit too much. And the times I played it, I wasn't in as I am with Everdell..
Yep, love both...love one far more than the other.
You never said "I want one of the 2 crows" during playing Wingspan? Those 2 cards are OP
Lol I have not :)
This is an opinion, but I firmly believe Everdell is alsoo better than Terraforming Mars.
Better art, better componentes, right length timewise, still a tableau builder and engine builder, and better expansions.
Also Everdell is excellent out of the box, while TM lacks in so many aspects and most ppl will tell you to buy Prelude to "fix" the experience.
When you play wingspan more you figure out how to get a high score with any starting cards. When we started we thought it was limited somewhat on an egg laying strategy. It is not it just may seem that way as it's the most obvious. Bonus is that I can play wingspan with anyone including new boardgame players. I think its perfect for its weight and niche
Oh I'll agree on the better accessibility.
Try the egg laying strategy against a Wingspan player who knows what they are doing and you will lose every time. I thought that was the way as well until I got better at the game.
Both are great games. I found Wingspan easier to teach and more approachable to non gamers. My biggest beef with Everdell is you need to keep track of player tableau's. I think both can easily fit into someones collection pretty easily. That said I own Wingspan and do not own Everdell. Not because I like one more then the other but because Wingspan offers something a little more unique in its weight; at least in my collection.
I hear you on the.tableau point
I play games mostly with non-gamers so this video confirmed for me that Everdell will not work in our group.
You should call it Kvetching about board games. Kidding, I'm part Jewish. Great series, thank you!!
Lol I'm down.
@@BoardGameCo BTW picked up Everdell based on you review. Thank you!
I feel you made valid points on your criticism of Wingspan. Bottom line is, Wingspan is a point salad, gamer's game kind of game - meaning it's a mechanically sound game. The cards are mechanics, they do things for you, and are not actual individual birds (there are several that give you the same thing you want, or give you stuff you can build up with your current set, stuff like that). The expansions don't build up on the core game, like Everdell does. The endgame of Wingspan is mostly the same everytime (though I've gone for different things on those final turns on purpose so as to see what the game rewards, and it works to varying degrees).
That said, I still consider Wingspan the better game - and I have one very simple reason: the comparison lies on both games being "family games". Well, the accessibility of Wingspan is waaaaaaaaay higher than Everdell. It is easy to teach, easy and fast to play, doesn't require you to remender minute rules, it lays out all you can do in front of you (in oposition to Everdell - teaching what tableau building to people who never even played boardgames is so immaterial that makes the game inaccessible), and it is easy to pick right back up because after a couple of turns the rules are solid and clear in your head, and easy to remember. So if you're having family gatherings, welcoming people in your home, it is much easier to introduce Wingspan than it is Everdell. And also, it is over far quicker, and is just as rewarding in a shorter amount of time. A game not overstaying its welcome with people who aren't gamers is a big plus. These make Wingspan more "family friendly" than Everdell.
Everdell interaction is far greater. But for solo I prefer wingspan
The only thing wingspan has up over everdell is the game length. Everdell consistently last 2 hours or more when I play it whereas wingspan can be as short as 30 minutes. But other than that oh, I tend to think everdell is better. When you mentioned the components, I had a realization. People don't typically upgrade the everdell components whereas almost everyone upgrade multiple aspects of wingspan. If that doesn't speak for in the box components I don't know what does.
For the wingspan last round egg-laying strategy, the expansion help boost other strategies in the game making them more viable. But with base game wingspan, you're always just laying eggs in round 4
I disagree with the strategies reason for wingspan and the cards reason and it goes hand in hand. for wingspan you are balancing the need for food, bird cards and eggs because you need all three. they are not individual strategies. by building your best engine on the board you are hopefully achieving one that means you can ignore another (for example having cards that let you pick up new birds and food in the egg row).
Also the fun part with the cards is that a card that would have been amazing at the start is almost useless toward the end or a card that is good at the end is unattainable at the start. there is also a switching point where you need to let the engine run and begin to really prioritise points.
The expansions also added other point systems (nectar), new goal cards and end of round goals. also new card mechanisms (end of round/game actions).
I love everdell. It looks better to me and the theme resonates more with me. I can appreciate that a game about birds has done so well but it does nothing for me personally.
Agreed on every single point. Everdell is a top game.
Yes :)
I had 2 copies of wingspan (Jumped into the hype) both have been traded in to boardgameco. because they have a high value all in less than 3 months. My biggest issue with Wingspan is the amount of initial luck necessary to have a good game.
I admit, this is a low blow, to post this directly after holding your poll. 😆🤣
Lol well yes....of course.
Everdell is significantly better game. As far as concerning the theme, for me wingspan is themeless. It's just birds flying around. I mean whats the deal? What's the theme? Everdell has theme plus it tells a story. I can easily see it as a successful anime by Walt Disney. For ppl who play wingspan before everdell, wingspan is a anice little game. I was already sold to everdell when I tried wingspan, and after a couple of plays... Meh.
Agreed, great vid!
:)
Everdell sounds like it will stimulate my ADHD need for dopamine much more. Thank you!
It's great :) Love that game.
You need to do more of this series
OMG, my niece just whooped me 72-49. I was done, then with her last move she unlocked a storehouse of berries, took the Tax relief (another production phase) and gave them berries to the minor mole who copied my doctor. Did it again with the chip sweep, picked up and then played the husband in the last free spot and also had a monk who gave me the remaining berries and then used my post office to burn for points. Scored like 20+ points. She’s eight!
Yeah she has been copying a few of my combos, but chaining all that together was...
Reading "She's eight!" made me LOL. 😀
You must be proud. The student has become the master.
We had Wingspan & Everdell.
Wingspan is gone, and I own two expansions for Everdell.
A man of taste :)
I played Wingspan about 12 times and it left my collection. Everdell has been played about 12 times and it is in my top 10. EVERDELL is a much more variable and enjoyable game. I always end my game of EVERDELL satisfied and am ready to play again.
Everdell looks gorgeous but I have only played wingspan (I enjoyed) so I'm curious as to why you gentlemen prefer Everdell specifically?
@@MrN0b0dy85 I think that is the point of this video lol
@@Dehalove I was asking the gentlemen who posted above me not the OP.
Quacking good episode :) - even if you are wrong.
Wow, how did you know exactly what I was going to type over by you ;)
Jesse, I can't wait to see you pretend like you prefer Wingspan!
The majority of your community disagrees here Jesse! Don't let us forget this little fact 😘😁
Everdell is more thematic and the artwork is so amazing.
Anyone that thinks Wingspan is better is an absolute Quackpot.
Everdell is basically me and my wife's favorite! It is the type of game that works as a date night game, a cold night with hot chocolate game, a weekend with friends game, and a family game - love it!
Yes!
I like Wingspan better than Everdell. Why? First the price point is better. Excellent gameplay is possible with only the base set. Upgrading some of the components is good but, not essential to do.
Engine building and tableau building are some of my favorite mechanics. The bird cards are a visual treat. There are so many in the base set. This makes replayability another plus. There are a reduced number of actions as the rounds advance. That is not a problem. In no other game can you say, “Acres and acres of Tweety Birds!”.
Tweety birds is a solid argument.
"I could really use the Chihuahuan Raven right now" me every single time I play wingspan.
True
Great video Alex. Buttttt you know where I stand. #wingspan. Me and my wife have full on debates about this though 😂
You sir....you were a surprise to me :)
@@BoardGameCo haha I was hoping so. It was fun to do. Maybe we can disagree with Jesse on something sometime 😁
@@LordoftheBoard Count me in :)
Reasons?!
If you are only laying eggs in the last round or two, you probably failed to build a solid engine and end game strategy. Also, losing a turn each round adds to the tension - which I like. Whereas in Everdell the same could be said regarding the last rounds. There have been many games where someone has filled up their village, have an abundance of workers and materials but nothing meaningful to do with them.
Great video! Love the comparison.
Two reasons I like Wingspan. I haven't played Everdell but perhaps I will try it.
1. This level of game is good for playing with my family. Wingspan is fun whether you are serious or not and easy to play with my (mostly not gaming) family.
2. Birds are dinosaurs. You can see many of the dinosaurs in the game out your window or on a walk. Dinosaurs.
Well I can't argue with reason 2.
I'm purchasing Everdell today, sold Wingspan a few months back. You nailed it with the statement about how all the birds "blurred together". Correct. Beautiful art, but at a point the cards just became....cards. The game left me very unsatisfied.
I've been playing both a lot and I have switched my favor to Wingspan.
Everdell does a lot right but the expansions don't blend as well imo.
I love being able to just take any/every expansion for wingspan and it doesn't bog down gameplay
Reads title........ You take that back. 😬......... Thinks harder....... Hold on are they even comparable?
Yes :) And good to see you here...we need to talk ;) You are the first person I thought of when thinking who to do another of these videos with :)
I'd love to see you collaborate with BoardGameCo! Just offering my support!
@@cmchristensen @boardGameCo that would be awesome! Definitely up for that in the future. 👍😎
@@BoardGameCo i will tell you the games :-)
Luke - Underwater Cities
Alex - Terraforming Mars.
@@johnpanagos5835 You really want to see the gloves come off??
Alex - Too Many Bones
Luke - LOTR Journeys in Middle Earth
Wingspan base is better. Everdell base game at least is pretty cookie cutter. Resources, fill up tableau, discard bad cards to make room for better cards. The goals are way too random. My everdell base tAbleau always seems to look the same. Wingspan makes you think a little more as you have to make the most of what you have. I think both games have the same tension of... I need that one card!!! Funny how we see the same points completely differently. :)
I totally agree with you :)
Wingspan has no memorable cards? Have you heard of ravens my friend?
Everdell surelly is a nice game, but there is one thing that Wingspan managed to achive, wich no other boardgame ever did befor. Wingspan brought me to appreciate and participate in a new aspect of reallity. I now go out and can name most of the birds i see and hear, now i care about nesting grounds and migrationrouts and that is awsome. And i think Everdell gamewise is the better game but Wingspan brought me an entire ne passion "the World of the birds" and that's why for me its nr.1.
That's awesome :) Thanks for sharing.
It seems that Jesse's best reason is the flip side of your Reason 3. And heavily relying on cards that might or might not show up is the main reason why I am not more eager to play Everdell.
I noticed! I love how he and I had totally flipped points there. We didn't coordinate either, that just worked out nicely :)
Never played Everdell so I can't compare, but here some comments:
Theme: I agree that critters/Redwallish theme "itself" is more interesting than birdwatching, but in the boardgame hobby, I feel like Wingspan has a more unique and appealing theme, while Everdell came out the same year as another Behemoth with a similar theme (Root). Might be why Wingspan caught my eye way faster than Everdell did.
Cards that makes you want them: I agree that Wingspan does not have that, but it is also a double edge sword for Everdell. If you don't get "that one" card 2-3 games in a row, it might ruin some players desire to play the game again. Wingspan "plays it safe" by having many cards with similar powers while from what I understand, Everdell will create potential memorable moments...good or bad (mostly good ones I assume).
Better expansions: You are right about this one so far. While not being bad, Wingspan first expansion is safe. The new one seems better, bring something new to the table and will boost the food action and nerf the lay egg action (which , I agree, is most of the time my 1-2 last actions of the game haha).
Anyway, while I didn't play Everdell yet, I feel Wingspan deserve that top "family game" spot because its the only game I own (and know of) that can bring to the table my heavy strategy boardgame friends, my "the only boardgames I play are Yathzee or What do you Meme" friends, and family members that wanna try it because they like birds. While I really want to try Everdell now (thanks to you and Quackalope), I don't think it'll be able to acheive that same "impact" even if it ends up beeing an amazing game for me.
Make more of these videos; these are awesome!
oh and Quack!
I think there are enough cards that people will want - that loosing out on one is rarely so devastating as to ruin an experience. It will surely feel like a defeat from time to time, but it will also often open players up to other opportunities with less competition.
With that being said. I would personally agree with your conclusion 100%. Everdell looks like a family game, but I honestly don't think it is. It is deceivingly complex, kind of like root, people will be pulled in by the theme, and they might stay for the complexity, but they might also be scared off. In a way I find Everdell more intimidating than root. Because while root is quite complex to master because of it's asymmetry, each turn is quite simple and easy to understand. A single turn, or rather season, can get quite complex in Everdell.
@@theRabbitFly Good to know, I can't wait to try Everdell
Timestamping like a boss. Again. Genuinely impressed.
Fun comparison too!
There is no argument that Wingspan is far from a great game - it's 'ok' as a game. But the strength and popularity of Wingspan isn't due to its game design - it's the experience and enjoyment of handling 170 different birds (200+ with expansions). My wife and I've played Wingspan 50+ times but everytime I forget how 'just ok' the gameplay is - because I love love love seeing the birds so much. With minimal setup, we can set it up, play and pack it up well under an hour. We love Everdell too (20+ plays) but it does start to feel more repetitive than Wingspan because you start to see same cards over and over again. Everdell + expansion definitely offer more strategic paths, but I really think games like Wingspan is less about winning strategies and more about enjoyment.
It sounds to me like you like the birds...I am curious how many feel that way. For me the birds are completely uninteresting.
@@BoardGameCo not saying Everdell's theme isn't interesting - actually the theme/mechanic immersion and the combo of animals/buildings are so well interwined that none of its expansions could introduce new cards without breaking that fine balance. It's really a great joy to see how each combos work thematically and mechanically in Everdell.
As for Wingspan, I think there are enough bird lovers (or at least those who find the artwork attractive) out there for SMG to sell over 100K copies. Wingspan is a classic 'wife' game - if my wife likes it, it will get played.
Also like to add that, to me, BGG ranking means nothing more than a popularity contest. It completely fails at ranking the greatness of games. It means nothing to me that Wingspan ranks higher than Everdell.
I only played Everdell once, and I wasn't impressed. However the very first time I played Wingspan, I got hooked immediately! It might be me not expecting much from a game about birds though. Now I think I should give Everdell another shot.
I really love you two doing this. It’s a fun point/counter-point debate. And of course, Everdell is better.
Lol it's fun :) Which is why I do this.
I think building the engine in everdell is just quite challenging for a first time playthrough, and I know for a lot of people that will make an impact. I felt like I learned while playing in Wingspan, and I learned only after I lost when I played everdell.
I'm wondering how hard it is for Jesse to side with Wingspan when he very well knows that Everdell is the top dog (or critter)
Jesse has always been team underdog :)
@@BoardGameCo Pretty sure Everdell is the underdog here, at least as far as sales and critical acclaim goes
@@npckse8508 Really? Why?
I love both games, and even if Wingspan can be clunky, we play it a lot more than Everdell. The reason is, my girlfriend always says she cant wrap her head around the sheer amount of usable cards on the table in the late game. As a gamer, I think Everdell is better, but from a casual perspective, Wingspan is a lot less daunting. Also she loves birds a lot.
Everdell has amazing animeeples, so there was really no contest
Oh wow. How did I not make that my main point....along with Berries at least.
Another great video and an interesting comparison between 2 games that I own. All 8 points are valid and I agree with each and every one of them. Funnily though, Wingspan hits our table more often than Everdell and the reason is also quite easy to understand (you mentioned this yourself):
- accessabilty: I have no regular gaming group of players that often and excessively play boardgames instead I play with my family (wife and 2 kids aged 10 and 12 atm) and with their friends or the grandparents etc. and it is a big plus if you can teach a game in approx. 5-10 minutes
- simplicity: strongly connected to the first point: Not only are the rules easier to grasp but also the layout of the game and the more limited amount of choices make the gameflow better and the game is not as prone to AP as Everdell
- gametime: a result of the first points: The game is quicker and seldom takes more than 1 hour whereas Everdell has regularly taken us 2 hours to finish
I think as always the result depends on several factors but the most influencial imo is the group you are plaing the game with. As someone who owns a lot of games that tend to be on the heavier side (my all time favourite Top 10 games are: Twilight Struggle, Mage Knight, Robinson Crusoe, Fire in the Lake, Nemesis, Enemy Action Ardennes, X-Odus, Fields of Fire, Underwater Cities and Spirit Island) I wholeheartedly agree that Everdell is the better game mechanically and component wise but Wingspan is a favourite of the more 'average' gamers in my personal environment...
This. My main gaming group is my kids (aged 15 and 11) and my parents (And occasionally my husband)
Wingspan > everdell. My wife and I enjoy playing it together. Everdell left me wanting more in solo and my wife loved the look of everdell but did not like the game very much. Maybe she will like it more in the future. I would sell everdell now if not for my young daughters and that they might play it in the future. Wingspan expansions make it even better. Wingspan on PC is also awesome and they way to play the game solo.
I don’t really like games with quite a bit of luck but wingspan is so popular and I like the look and theme and thinking of a board game haul I’m getting Everdell I’m just wondering shall I get wingspan to?.
I really enjoyed both, Quackalope's episode and yours... i watched Quakalope's and was convinced.. then i watched yours, now i'm back on the fence in a state of analysis paralysis..
Get both!
@@BoardGameCo good idea :)
I watched this with my wife, and she asked me afterword which one I would like. I said Wingspan. Then she returned the copy of Everdell she had bought me for Christmas and replaced it with Wingspan. Not the result you might have intended, but it was very helpful!
lol that's amasuing :)
These are the kind of videos I like the best from your channel.
More comparisons please.
Oh they'll be coming :)
This Wingspan talk, that's a female designer, right? Great topic-tip for your next video: Where are the female boardgame designers/lack thereof? - Genuine question.
Yes it is :)
Both games are popular. Both games are medium heavy. Both games are medium good enginebuilder. So why to compare them. They dont need to be compared? Theres much better engine/deckbuilder out there. for me both are just a 7/10. ez skip.
Because comparing things is fun.
Everdell all the way! Sorry Jesse Everdell is way cuter with better components and is the gamers game. I feel like Wingspan is gateway and agree with Alex on the limited winning strategies for Wingspan. Don’t get me wrong I will play it but I prefer Everdell solo or group play every time. #TeamEverdell
#teameverdell!
Wingspan has stellar production value and mediocre gameplay. In my opinion, it's basically the exact opposite of Castles of Burgundy.
That's an interesting way of putting it.
Birds r better, u kidding, don't know why everyone always hates on birds. they are fascinating. cant even compare.
I mean...matter of opinion right?
I love those cross videos on both of your and Quackalope channel. I'm also proud of myself that I was a subscriber to both of channels before you become friends :D and was a witness of beginning of that friendship :)
Feels like forever :) But been 5 months.
It is better. But Imperial Settlers and Empires of the North are leagues above these two so it's hard to consider ever owning either of these two again.
Interesting...Empires of the North is on my shelf of shame :)
Why do you even compare those super different games. Can you also make a video and compare Stratego with Risk - Both are games of WAR?¤#%#"
No offence - thanks for your contribution to the boardgame community, I like your videos. But I don't agree that these can be compared in ANY way.
I hear....but also lots of people do get the comparison so I'm not alone here :)
@@BoardGameCo yes, I saw it also other places. Probably because they target more or less same target group. Maybe a relevant title could be "Which game to buy, Everdell or Wingspan"
My answer would be - by BOTH, if you like. They are both good and not an either or 😀
Uhhh I’m going to sound like a hypocrite right now but I came close to purchasing everdell many times but the theme keeps making me lose interest. Now I said the same about wingspan I thought the theme was ridiculous and uninteresting but then wingspan ended up being one of my favorite games ever. If I get everdell my fiancée will make fun of me 😆
Great video! The line "And this is confirmation bias," made me subscribe. Love the content.
:) Glad you enjoyed!
But, you have terraforming mars , and it is appropriately looking down on both of these....
Well yes....but different game :)
Port Royale is a much more accessible and affordable family-weight tableau builder than both.
I own it but need to get it to the table :)
Board gamers usually don't like expansions that significantly change the gameplay of a game.
What's that based on?
I like both, both are good games, I kept both, but Everdell is better with or without expansions.
Yep :)
I like both games, but Wingspan does feel like if Bob Ross and MacGyver had a baby. I always feel like I am limited in strategy based on what starting cards I get, and always run out of time to truly adjust on the "fly." :) Everdell 9/10, Wingspan 8/10, but would play either if anyone suggested a game. In that sense, they both win.
Agreed entirely
the two are not even comparable..
I tell you why in the first few minutes!
I agree. Taking a worker placement game that has card play, versus a tableau building/engine building game are not the same. I see what you are saying here, but disagree. If they felt similar to me, I would only need one in my collection. I also think the new expansion for Wingspan makes it far easier to get more birds played and make a player feel more agency.
Sounds like Everdell is a gamer’s Wingspan. I’ll be going with Everdell asap:)
I can't disagree :-)
What makes Everdell one of the top games in my collection is how it is deceivingly complex. How every time I play it I feel a better mastery of the game. How every time I play it I get dragged deeper into the hole that is optimizing your turn.
With that being said, it is also one of the reasons Everdell gets less and less table time. Because my experience with Everdell is that, the more you play, the longer it will take.
It is a strange monster in that regard. It is entirely enjoyable as a simple slightly superficial game with lots of enjoyable art and theme. However, the game offers a lot in reactionary strategy and with a big potential for combo making. The game feels so tight in it's first round, yet with the right combination of cards you can do so much, but it requires some thinking and adaptability. I find the puzzle so enjoyable because every time I try to find the solution, despite the fact that I probably wont find it, I will find a solution, and that solution will feel satisfactory.
In fact, in many ways. I would argue that Everdell is the only game in my collection that will feel that intense from round one, that will ramp that intensity up with every season, where you will find it hard to limit yourself. Oh how many times I found the optimization puzzle too enticing. To the point that I loose out on big end game scoring opportunities because my village is filling up too quickly.
While many other games, that I love and some that I probably hold above it, will give me the same feeling in very enjoyable bits. Everdell, once you invest in the experience, has the potential to be that from the very start.
To be fair. I have also had less than stellar games of Everdell, especially in the beginning where I could not find ways to fully adapt to the cards being offered. And I have found myself relying too much on certain combos, which means loosing out on them could potentially feel like a big loss. However, because the game seems to open up more and more every time I play it. I also feel like those times are where the game really shines. When I am challenged to not only use what feels comfortable, but perhaps find new ways to optimize my cards with other combinations. Like the game I did manage to activate the monastery 4 times and I happened to draw the monk in the last season, while the monastery goal card was in play. It was amazing. Or the game where the 2 last turns was all about trying to manage who would end up with the pirate ship, which was especially important to me because it occupied the last space in my village and I desperately needed a big scoring card to make up for my earlier successes at the optimizing challenge.
I actually think that Wingspan and Everdell fills quite different niches, at least they would to me. Because Everdell is no longer a beautiful game that comes to the table to bring in the uninitiated. Everdell has become a 3 hour battle for survival like no other, and I love it for it. But I also wish, it did not become quite so intimidating to bring to the table because of it.
And though I would not trade this games presentation for the world. It was easily one of the reasons I got it in the first place. It does take up a lot of table space, probably quite a bit more than it should, which does bring it's own challenges when it comes to playing the game with more than 2-3 players.
Wingspan is the better game
The greater ecosystem agrees with you.
Don't need to make arguments. Quackalope is clearly totally quack here.
:)
yeah other peoples reviews of wingspan,talked about how it was good but not great
Yep. Some love, some think it's ok m
I haven't tried Everdell and yet I agree with you that it's a better game. I absolutely hate the theme of Wingspan, it actively kept me from trying it for a long time, and when I finally did, such a disappointment.. I love engine building, it's one of my favorite mechanisms, but in Wingspan because you can do less and less actions, it takes away the satisfying feeling that engine building usually gives me towards the end of a game. Still have it because I wonder if I played it wrong, so I want to revisit the rules and try again, but for now it sits as the game I own that I like the least.
If it helps I got rid of wingspan at one point, I got it back and enjoyed it more without the hype attached.
@@BoardGameCo Yes, hype is the stepping stone for disappointment.
Maybe you aren’t as familiar with Wingspan, so you don’t know what bird powers you need to draw. It might not be a specific bird, but sometimes I go searching for specific birds, like tucking birds, humming birds, ravens, or wood peckers, or sometimes I want the Atlantic Puffin or Bald Eagle. The Chihuahuan Raven and Common Raven resonate with most Wingspan players.
Theme and mechanics? The birds migrate away after each round. They can only be played in their actual habitats. Birds that tolerate other birds have flocking powers. Egg spaces and food requirements mimick real life. Etc. Etc. Etc. Everdell...why do animals need amber for anything? Where are the nuts? Where is the circle of life? No one gets eaten. Where are the mice kids? Where are the partners for animals other than mice?
I like Everdell, but I think it’s more of a sputtering engine. Even Empires of the North is a better engine.
Laying eggs is a fine action; it’s the safe bet. Maybe the expansions added powers, but if you have a good engine, you don’t need to always resort to laying eggs for the best play.
@@Poiuytrew.Q Well thematically for Everdell, it's played out over a single year (4 rounds/seasons), so there's not much scope for circle of life/kids in that time frame.
The animals need resin (it's not amber) to apply like concrete and glue the wood/stone together for the buildings they make. Why do they need nuts? They have berry fields.
Excellent review, however, agricola smokes both these games.
Oh man, I do not love Agricola :)
After watching both vids... Everdell is a better game.
:)
Squishy components are a reason😂 you need a european expansion for wingspan, it becomes less locked in and with oceania its just a full package. Its different experiences, you are too dramatic, its just board games. Also the skill is important, it seems you are just not so good at wingspan
I used to think that Everdell's forced pairs would only restrict you and make your tactics depend on card draw. While it still does those to some degree, I noticed that most cards in those pairs belong to different combos/archetypes, which cleverly pushes players to prepare for multiple random outcomes rather than lock onto just one
Totally agree with every single point!
:)
This is a pretty genius video series. Well done. Haha
Thanks!
Really solid video. But can Everdell win if Lord Of The Board is in the Wingspan Video 🤔
My kinda thinking!!
I know! That was a surprise to me!