Maybe that's what's wrong. People think it's a fun thing. Maybe call it something like "plane eats dirt" and I'm sure the number of incidents will go down.
Every cabin should have a mother sitting quietly inside it. So just in case when the plane is about to land she can say, "Jacob, before you leave the cabin, have you got your thrust reversers on?"
Yes and also, "before you leave the cabin, please park the plane and do the shutdown checklist" 😅 In a way there is a kind of mother already in a lot of the automated voice warnings, although there's a mix between the sexes depending on the plane. There's a nice interview with the voice actor behind one of them under a "'Bitchin' Betty' Bids Farewell" headline. The Russian air force has a "Nagging Nadia" as well.
I've lived in BOM for 30+ years and used 14/32 Runway many times, although it is the secondary (9/27 is the primary). People watching this video need to understand what heavy rain in the tropics means. It's truly staggering how much water can collect within seconds and minutes. Runway 14 has an easy approach with no high obstacles but it is the shorter of the two at BOM. On first glance, water is definitely a cause (either aquaplaning or reduced braking). However, the investigation will determine where touchdown happened and what the brake settings were, etc. Remember also that runway 27 (primary) has had two runway overrun excursions in the previous two monsoon seasons, both during extreme rain. Both were 737s if I remember correctly.
MK KM the SpiceJet one happened right in front of me on 27 while we were lined up. That was the first rain of the monsoon and it was really very bad. Many reports of windshear and go around.
I’m not much of a global traveler, so I’m unsure of how similar my story is, but here goes: Many many years ago, my aunt described her reaction to hearing new neighbors and colleagues tell her that they “never drive when it rains”. My aunt, having grown up in the Midwest and experienced in driving in both rain and snow storms, thought her new neighbors in California were being strangely over cautious. That was, until she experienced a heavy, Southern California downpour for herself and then understood what her new neighbors and colleagues were talking about. I have not personally experienced a Southern California downpour, but based on my aunts vocalization and body language, I would probably look for a place to pull over if I was driving in California and a heavy storm were to cross my path. Your comment reminded me of my aunt telling her story… now if I can remember to ask my favorite FedEx pilot if he has had similar experience at this airport
@@tanya5322 yeah, it's like the old term "cow drowner", IE rain so heavy it's physically dangerous to stand outside. I got to experience it first hand when the tropical storm Isabel made landfall in the DC area. I would NOt want to fly anything in THAT weather. Landing an MD-11 at Mumbai in weather like that? Good job making it safely! :D
@@tanya5322 Possibly similar to what the 4pm thunderstorm showers in the Tampa Bay area used to be like. (I understand that those are changing too now due to climate change.) In a flash, the streets would be flooded, and I would be wading home instead of walking.
You Must Remember. Your Coming in, &, all of sudden, your blinded by a Pink Nail Salon. Dated wall paper keeping me from concentrating. Dangerous, Yes. Severe Headache! Pan Pan Pan!!! & No Patxi? CJ
ur dark side because they need to touch down with the main gear and if the came down flat it would touch the nose gear first and the nose gear is not strong enough to touch down first.
The Crazy Banana “Main Gear” touch down first for (1) control, (2) slow down, (3) and if need arises to immediately power up for a go around. (4) if you land on the nose gear it would collapse and the pilot would lose control of the aircraft...
I'd say that's true, regardless of whether it's ATC error, Pilot Error, Technical failure or weather that's less then fantastic. Any combo of those will give a pilot a bad day.
For some reason I laughed my ass off when Petter said "no matter HOW much you try to brake, it doesn't matter, you're just HAULING down the runway". I didn't expect that particular colloquialism from Petter's Swedish English! As usual, wonderful presentation, an absolute master this guy is! Really fun to watch and listen to.
One of the best developments in my life has been for aviation enthusiasts to have access to RL experts like yourself. Thank you for all of your content and wishing you good fortune in your career.
Random but FedEx really likes the MD-11, I live by Newark and there is like 25 to 50 which come in every single day. That company really knew how to build solid work horses, just look at the mad dogs, they really hold up well
While people like to bash MD, this planes still logging hours in the skies. Why is that ? They scrap planes half of this age or less. MD-11s still going. Douglas knew their sh1t pretty well and even when MD-11 wasnt the expected plane if the early 90s, it finds its place in the cargo industry.
robert smith Yes, every day I see the same planes flying all over the world whether it’s to Hong Kong or Charles de Gaulle or anywhere, do you work at FedEx?
I thought a runway excursion was a guided tour for aviation geeks where they get to look at interesting stuff around the runway, like lights, equipment, ILS antennas, radio huts etc.
Fluffy -Fluffy If you’re bouncing then your landing speed is simply too fast. Try coming over the numbers 5 knots slower, and just before touchdown raise the nose a little higher than you do today, even if that means a slight float.
I just wanted to say, I AM NOT A PILOT OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE AVIATION PROFESSION, but I love watching your videos a lot and enjoy learning about the aviation field. Just wanted to say that.
I’m just an ordinary member of the public. I have been watching your videos for sometime now and I’m very impressed with their quality and the information provided. Given that I’m sure a great number of the people watching your videos are pilots, I am beginning to think that one of the best pieces of safety equipment in the airline industry is yourself. Thank you!
@Mentour Pilot : Don't forget measurement bias in the figures. The ability to measure minor excursions has increased over time. If you go back 10 years or more, then the MD11 wouldn't have been classed as an excursion many times. It'd depend if anyone noticed and cared enough to classify it as such.
Also not clear if he meant that excursions are becoming more common in absolute terms, in terms of percentage of landings, or in terms of percentage of incidents (this last one being what the pie graph shows). By definition, if other kinds of incidents are becoming less common as a percentage of incidents (because those problems are being solved), something else is becoming more common.
@@scottwood4372 And also if there are more landings overall, there would be more incidents and accidents overall. I bet that 2020 and 2021 had much fewer runway excursions than 2019, but does that indicate that the problem is solved? :)
I've actually seen that plane , while my 737 was taxing , I saw a trijet , and snapped a couple pictures , I just checked and it's the same one that I took photos of ( btw , amazing pronounciation Petter )
Another excellent, detailed video! Thanks for the excellent technical detail as to the precise definition of a “runway excursion” for incident reporting purposes. Until I saw your video, I did not have a clear picture of how there could have been a runway excursion that was cleared so quickly and with no damage to either the runway or the aircraft. But now that is perfectly clear to me. Thanks again for all you do to educate your viewers and bring us precise understanding of technical issues.
That’s why the excess areas at the end of the runway are there - for extra runoff in an emergency . The MD11 is a compromised aircraft in crosswinds and windshear - HKG, LAX ETC ETC
Excellent video as always. The fact we even get to hear about these excursions is because they are rare. For every takeoff or landing that overruns, just think how many do not. Why don't they happen more often? Because these folks are professionals. They are at the top of their game keeping you and me safe. When it does go wrong, they investigate, learn and improve. My thanks to every single one of them: pilots, navigators, cabin crew, ATC, maintenance, all of them.
Brake system B failed after landing an HS-748 where I was pilot monitoring. The Captain told me to assist him with my braking pedals floored. The aircraft stopped, and I could see the River Guadalquivir (second longest river in Spain) flowing under my seat in the cockpit. The Captain taxied, turning 180º back to the runway and then to the apron. He told me later that we hadn't stepped onto any of the very expensive runway-end lights. What I was relieved for was not that, but that we hadn't had to swim back to the river bank.
I was stranded in Mumbai during the terrible monsoon of 2005. The airport was flooded, many systems weren't working and the airport was closed. When it was re-opened with very low cloud an Air India plane landed and skidded off the runway. I was travelling with South African Airlines, who were brilliant in every way, care of passengers, information and so on. To cut a long story short, when we were finally able to leave we were in a queue of planes, the one that took off in front of us disappeared in the water it threw up. Obviously, as I am writing this we took off safely but I have never heard a pilot sound so relieved and shaken at the same time. Thank you SAA you were wonderful.
My congratulations for the 600k subs Peter! You do a great job with your explanations. Especially for people who don't know about that daily work "problems" as a pilot, like in this case. I think if one of those events like you discribe in this video happend, this pilots did a great job. And as i know... The MD11 is a beast to land even in NORMAL conditions. Gracias y hasta luego:)
Hello Mentour, there is one thing you need to understand about the MD-11. The reason you hear the reversers in this video begin to spool down before they reach taxi speed is because they have to. At FedEx it is required to completely stow the reversers by 60kts on all landings other than some kind of emergency, of course. That's why you hear them do that in the video. Then they obviously realized they weren't going to stop in time and so they spooled the reversers back up again. The reason for this runway excursion was not caused by the reversers or their usage. Something else happened earlier, although we can't see what that was. They could have landed long, too fast, too much tailwind, hydroplaning or any number of things that can't be determined from this video. Furthermore, reverse thrust is not even considered when making landing distance calculations in this plane, at least at FedEx. It's all based on brakes and spoilers. Any benefit from the reversers is just icing on the cake, but not required. Just thought you would like to know so that you and your viewers can understand why the reversers spooled down before getting to taxi speed.
Thank you, Mentour. I really appreciate you insight into this excursion and your explanations. These are some of the best videos that you do because I always learn something. Great job!
Thank you for another outstanding program! Note: It seems noteworthy that this problem (excursions) is on the rise. It would be of interest to know whether this is happening pretty much in an equal distribution around the globe, & among different carriers, & among the various commercial aircraft, or are there certain scenarios where risk is disproportionately elevated. Thank you again!
That’s a great question. It seems to be pretty equally distributed but the increase in foul weather probably plays a part. Also the widening of destinations to include shorter runways could play a part.. it’s definitely worth studying
@@MentourPilot Your work (careful reconstructions/thoughtful analyses) just has to be building awareness, improving safety, & saving lives. If this particular area (excursions) is unique in lagging behind otherwise across-the-board advances in aviation safety, perhaps extra attention to it could result in meaningful differences/trend reversal. (Incidental: An old friend, Waldon Weaver (now flying for St. Peter & staff), used to say that aviation's a microcosm of earth & everything on it - starting with intelligent design, & proceeding to include all modifications thereafter. If, e.g., changing weather issues adversely impact aviation, they must necessarily also impact everything else. So it is too, Wally would say, that literally everything that goes on anywhere falls within the purview of aviation (& influences the interlinked actions transforming primitive raw materials into the highly sophisticated reality of modern aviation). This is just to suggest that if Wally were still among us, he'd resoundingly cheer & encourage your work, & say that in whatever ways every aspect of aviation can be improved, civilization itself is commensurately strengthened. Thank you, Mentour Pilot!
Good advice. When I worked nights caring for very fragile kids with leukemia, I had a similar policy-to learn all I could from mistakes that ALMOST resulted in harm. Learn then and you'll avoid those with bad consequences. The same is true in aviation. Learn, learn, learn... always learning.
Your truely exceptional human being. I've watched 50% of your videos. I've learnt so much from you, even though I'm not in avaiation. You can apply what you describe to many occupation.
Most of the issues you’ve mentioned can be applied to driving a car or riding a motorcycle. Hydroplaning… braking with or without antilock brakes, driving too fast for conditions, etc. when riding a motorcycle we are taught to be careful of tar snakes. The tar snake repairs the road has can get slick in the rain and in the heat. Love your channel!
Runway 14 in Mumbai is very easy to have a long flare and longer than expected landing roll on, especially during the horrible rains that BOM has. Everything is ripe for an overrun: there’s a significant downslope, more pronounced than published figures because of a hump in the middle as I remember, there’s a displaced threshold (LDA is actually 2471m as compared to the 2871m that a pilot first sees on the Jep airport diagram), quartering tailwinds are common and as far as I can remember the papi and glide might not be well matched lol. Beware fellas
I read that the MD11 is a beast to land in certain weather conditions. I remember a fedex md11 crashed in Tokyo when it bounced instead of landing and staying on the runway. I think the Tokyo crash had a strong wind component too, i dont remember if was a cross wind then too. The design of the md11 makes it vulnerable to bouncing undeceive certain conditions.
mark salmon I’ve heard this, too. It’s apparently a touchy plane to fly and I think they require a higher landing speed than most airliners because it has a smaller tail plane than the DC-10.
MD-11 tail surfaces haven been reduced in comparison to the DC-10 to achive better fuel figures. Arlines put order with fuel figures as mandatory ... They couldnt reach the figures, so they reduced the surface to reduce drag. As a consequence, they need to be landed faster than other jets. But is all about practice. It a well known issue. Every plane can bounce. MD-11 error magin is smaller. Thats all. It is a beast when it comes to take off. See lufthansa cargo vid of the MD-11 around the globe. Pilots LOVE them.
Isn't the MD-11 the plane with the highest landing speed of any civilian aircraft ever built? That's a big complaint pilots at DAL had when they flew the MD-11 in passenger service.
Yes, two flashes. As we don't have video of the entire landing, I wonder if it happened more than once and perhaps the pilots got prevented from using a higher reverse setting from water ingestion.
"I'll give you three different reasons why aircraft normally have runway excursions" Do they? I am by no means a frequent flyer but have travelled by air. And I yet have to experience my first runway excursion. Sorry, I could not resist. Thank you for your content! As an aviation enthusiast and glider pilot I love your perspective on how the big iron is operated. Also it is really interesting to see that even a wide-body jet airliner is still just an airplane bound by physics. So I do learn things for my own everyday flying.
It looks to me that about 4 seconds before the plane came to a stop, #1 engine had several compressor stalls. I saw 3 or 4 bright flashes in the area of the engine inlet.
7:18 Captain Joe also mentioned (and showed an example) that in an aquaplaning situation it is actually possible to melt the tire rubber if the brakes are used in that situation.
Christopher,do you have a link to that video? This doesn't make sense to me so I probly just don't understand what you said. If the tires are aqua planing they are basically water skiing, there will be no where on them what so ever. Maybe you mean if they are locked up when they come back into contact with the pavement they will wear flat spots or even blow out? Thanks
@@MentourPilot man you and captain Joe are the best RUclipsrs can you and captain Joe do a live stream being that your both boeing pilots. And as always “keep the blue side up”
@@souocara38able that's exactly it. The wheels need to be free to spin up to speed before brakes are applied once the aquaplaning starts. Without the anti skid that would have to be done by the pilot's aware control.
I must say I surprised that this really didn't have much to do with the particular incident at hand but an overall description of cluttered runway arrivals. I can confirm that Mumbai is not a good airport to land at in bad weather. You should have mentioned that the runways there are also not grooved which certainly improves stopping dist. Our data changed dramatically when a runway was grooved. These guys were stable and did a professional job considering they were also on the shortest runway. I was lucky that I made 2 approaches there to the longest runway (9/27) one day and fortunately never saw the runway due to monsoon rains (with a HUD & EFVS). I, too, would have had the deck stacked against me considering the data showed we were "legal" to land even though the last 1,000' of the runway was closed for construction, there was a quartering tailwind and the runway was not grooved.
I really enjoy this type of video. Your analysis and explanations are clear and understandable. Thanks so much! Oh, and now I know why a "spoiler" is called a spoiler!
The MD-11 is not an extended DC-10! There are major differences and that is why it is not a DC-10-whatever. I was an engineer on the MD-11 project and was onboard all 200 of them. I was also plane captain for the first one (which carried the torch for the Atlanta Olympic Games). I am very proud of these aircraft and actually signed my name inside the nose gear well on the first and the last.
Can you do a segment on when you apply flaps during a descent? Is it speed, altitude or is there an indication that tells you when and how much degrees of flaps? I’d love to know. Thanks for all of your expertise.
Is it for flight sim purposes? Sometimes planes have charts in the cockpit showing max flap/speed. Also boeing planes show In the attitude indicator screen your speed which will also show with red boxes if your going to fast or slow for your current flap selection.
The short answer is that you deploy another notch of flaps when you want to fly slower than is safe for the current flaps configuration. The minimum and maximum speeds for different flaps configurations are in various handbooks and in the flight computer (which displays them on the speed tape in a second-generation glass cockpit) and the maximum speeds are listed on the flaps placard.
BurrFan, every flap has a limiting speed: fly faster than that, and you risk structural damage. On the A320 for example, Flap 1 has a speed limit of 230 kts, Flap 2 200 kts, Flap 3 185 kts and Flap full 177 kts. When would you want to extend them? The answer: as late as possible, because flaps cause drag, and we want to burn as little fuel as possible. So flaps are taken when slowing down for the approach. Here in India, ATC wants us to be at 180 kts by 20 nm to touchdown, and since the aircraft covers a mile for every 10 kts speed reduction, I reduce power at about 27 miles to touchdown, then take flaps 1 at about 24 miles and flaps 2 at about 22 miles. Flap 3 (and, if required, Flap full) is usually taken once on the glideslope after the landing gear is lowered. While these figures are for the A320, you'll find fairly similar ones for other turbofans at other places as well.
As always, your explanations and descriptions are easy to understand and enjoyable to watch and hear. I do have a question, though, unrelated to this. Recently I flew into Seatac Airport (Seattle, Washington). There I noticed that many of Alaska Airlines' planes had what appeared to be a "safety tape" hanging from the underside of the tail of each plane and ending in what appeared to be a metal disk sitting on the tarmac. I did NOT notice any planes of other airlines with the same device. What is that for--and why and when is it deployed?
Aquaplaning is actually the German word for Hydroplaning. It surprised me when that word was chosen for hydroplaning. I almost expected Petter to use the word "vattenplanering", which is the same word in Swedish. I actually didn't know that, I had to look it up. It made me curious because I was stationed in Germany in the Military Police, and when I dealt with the German Police, that's when I heard the word aquaplaning. So I wondered if it was the same in Swedish, and I found out it was not, but interestingly enough, I did find out aquaplaning is used in the UK as well. By the way, I stumbled on to these video's purely by accident. I found myself reeled in so to speak, and now I cannot get enough of them. These are great videos and very informative. I have found myself telling everyone I know about them including my Grandkids. I figured if they get the aviation bug maybe they will want to be pilots when they get older. Thank you!!!
All this happened a few kilometres away from here so it kinda feels good you talking about my city. Ideally it shouldn't, considering it's a mishap after all!
@Mentour Pilot: ABS/Anti-Slip is actually reducing break distance only a little bit and mostly on dry surfaces. It's purpose is to keep the wheel spinning thus alowing for at least some controllability. If the wheel slips, it will no longer pass on any sideway forces (i.e. if you want to drive a curve). For a plane that basically means sideway winds would push the plane sideways off the runway if the wheels would lock up. again: Since anti-slip releases break pressure over and over again and altough it maintains a spinning wheel (=better friction) it still comes down to almost the same stopping distance in very wet or icy conditions.
A little throwback. Back in 2003 or 4, I dont know the exact year. A Boeing 737-400 operating with Air Sahara, a private Indian airlines (which later on merged with Jet airways) overran the exact runway and its nose gear collapsed as a result that runway was put out of commission for many days. As you are a 737 pilot you should be intrested in that incident.
Heey, I've thought of a really good example of this!. Last year's F1 German grand Prix! Just off the circuit next to the last few turns there is a drag strip! The race turned really wet and where the drag strip had not been cleared or treated before the race, thus covered in a thick layer of rubber from burnouts etc as soon as any of the F1 cars made a mistake and got off track slightly and onto they surface they just slid like on sheet ice, you can look it up here on RUclips!. The rain just sat ontop of the layer of rubber and no matter what any of the drives did the cars just slid off lost no speed into the barriers!
Interesting about the rubber collecting at the touchdown zone. Just last week I was listening to a "heavy" pilot exchange with approach ATC: METAR indicated no precipitation, but it had rained heavily a few hours prior, and the roads still showed moisture. The heavy pilot was telling ATC that they were in approach based on METAR, but [they must've learned via company backchannel] if the runway was still wet they'd have to divert. At this point my wife called me - doh! The heavy must've been at the very limit of their limits, and wet rubber residue makes a good explanation for why they were concerned about wet runway hours after the rain.
In Germany it was always called Aquaplaning, at least in the automotive industry ... for all the nearly half of a century I have my driver's licence now. And BTW what you call ABS in the automotive industry - the anti-skid system for airplanes - AFAIK actually originated in aviation. When I studied EE one of the professors we had worked for the automotive industry and he told us such systems were already standard equipment for airplanes. Just around at that time (mid 1970s) they began to put ABS into cars, more in the high end models at first. Sometime as an add-on for which you had to pay extra money. Substantial extra money.
Funnily enough I think aquaplaning makes more sense, despite being less commonly used. Plane or planum being a Latin word would agree better with aqua which is also Latin, than compared to the _greek_ word hydro. But maybe it's a technical difference relating to the types of fluid involved
@@mittelwelle_531_khz Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but the international language of aviation is English by default & in English, we DO call it Hydroplaning, especially in the Auto industry. I am A.S.E. certified (but have been thinking about going back to school to become an aviation tech), but I did not know that's what it was called in German. I'm guessing a number of other Romanish languages used predominantly in Europe call it the same; but again, English is the default language in the sky, sooooo....
SAS DC 10 -30 from Stockholm skidded off the runway at JFK in Feb 1984.. Poor monitoring of faulty auto throttle was agreed as being the main cause. This plane was repaired and could still be flying at FedEx today.
Back when I was a young teenager a friend and I rode our bikes to the BNA perimeter and, at Chuck’s encouragement, went onto a runway, probably 19. We rode our bikes on the runway until I decided that this wasn't such a good idea. He wanted to keep riding on the runway but I insisted on turning around and leaving. Imagine that back then in the 1960s Berry Field (Berry NAshville), now Nashville International Airport, was not fenced. McGavock Pike is still visible where it went right up to where the end of the runway was back then. The Tennessee Air National Guard area is still called “Berry Field.”
Great video! Thank you for explaining how runway excursions could happen during landing. I know about runway excursions during taxiing and towing activities, or anywhere you cross the runway holding position lines, but hadn't thought about that they could occur during landings.
Great stuff, as always. Obviously the systems differ somewhat by airplane, but could you do a video on the braking design and antilock braking system of commercial jets? It sounded as though you said each wheel's ABS is totally independent (hopefully); not sure why you indicated you could get a message to manual brakes. In engineering braking systems for automobiles, we never give the consumer a choice to override ABS.
You do give the consumer a choice. They can pull a fuse :) And overriding is there because there are malfunctions and it would be really silly if the built in diagnostics missed a malfunction and then the pilot was stuck unable to override it. There are circumstances when ABS is detrimental to braking performance. Typically deep snow would be one. When you lock the wheels while going slow in deep snow, a pile of snow builds up in front of the wheel and adds drag. Automotive ABS is not designed to detect such conditions, and will act inappropriately. When going slow in deep snow, I just pull the fuse. It’s safer that way. Typically that would be on unpaved country roads, and on driveways around whatever property I’m getting to, and there’s no way to go faster than 15-20mph then while maintaining control anyway.
on most motorbikes, you can turn ABS off (or switch its level of sensitivity) - the reason is different though. ABS doesn't like off-roading and dirt-biking.
I don't think it's linked to runway lights, compressor stall I think is the more likely of the two with all of that water moving up and in front of the engine nacelle while being sucked back in. Weird that it happened though considering how rigorous the testing of commercial aircraft and the engines used for such aircraft is. Will be interesting to see what the investigation finds but I think if you're in the Mentour Pilot app it's a better place to get an answer from the Captain or someone else potentially in the aviation field. 😁👍
Hi everyone, i am a new subscriber. As such there are certain things i want to know. What is the name of this remarkable pilot who is teaching us so much? i want your history, and when i win lotto, i want YOU to be the pilot who flies me from new zealand to ireland, because i want to go home but will never trust any other pilot except you. What a great channel, no BS.....all good, sound information on one of my passionate interests. Thank you.
The runway shape, high in the middle and sloping away to the sides, is called 'crowned' in English. Most vehicle roads in the US are crowned for the same reason (to facilitate water runoff).
I'm so glad the pilots didn't do what I've seen way too often on accident documentaries: Realize way too late there was a problem and try to take off again. As I understand it, that's not supposed to happen after thrust reversers are activated.
Great video! Is aqua-planing an aviation-specific term, or more a general European reference? In the U.S. I've always heard it called hydroplaning. Thanks.
Ooh, tricky one! Basically it's all the same sort of thing, David. In Britain we tend to call road vehicles sliding on water 'aquaplaning' because hydroplaning seems more connected with the vanes/ wings on proper watercraft like speedboats and submarines. I think a 'hydrovane' is a steering mechanism for a yacht, so - in Britain at least - the 'hydro' prefix is mostly reserved for anything that's actually supposed to be afloat. (I'm sure there are numerous exceptions, so please don't quote me on that.) Hydrofoils and hydroplanes are definitely boats, though, so using the term aquaplaning for road vehicles avoids confusion with them. Well, sort of. Bottom line: 'aqua-' is slightly less nautical than 'hydro-' but it's just as soggy. ;-)
Aquaplaning or Hydroplaning was a major contribution to the American Airlines Flt 1420 MD82 Accident at Little Rock. Also the QANTAS Flight 1, a B747 overrun of the runway in similar monsoon weather in Bangkok..
Hi Mentour, hope you are fine in these unprecedented times. I remember another incident in Cochin International Airport (COK) involving a passenger aircraft, which veered to the side of the runway and one of the main landing gears fell into a drainage ditch for water. Here also, there were no severe injuries or other damages. But regarding the cause, it is not yet disclosed in the media, as far as I could remember. Since you told that these incidents are on the rise, could there be an element of error in the flight simulators or their software updates, which does not match the actual aircraft parameters? So a pilot might make the calculations in error, which works well on simulators but not on the actual equipment. A topic for discussion, if you wish and I would be honoured if you reply. Thanks in advance.
Hello Arun, in the incident you talk about, the aircraft did not go off the runway at high speed; it went off the taxiway due to a misidentification of the turning point, which in turn was made difficult by the heavy rain at night. Since then, Cochin airport has painted the non-maneuvering areas green so that they are more visible and less likely to be misidentified.
Simulator software is not an issue either; we use real-time software that takes a huge number of parameters into account while computing the landing distance. This is done for EVERY landing.
Great video as always! I wonder, with takeoffs and landings being the most risky part of flying, and with more frequent runway excursions, and problems with engine failure at rotation,, would they look into making runways longer? I know not always practical if in the middle of a city, but could future airports have longer runways? wouldnt it be safer to have enough runway to be able to cancel at rotation or any situation that could occur at landing and takeoff? Thanks!
If you make constrained runways longer, airlines are just going to load their planes more heavily and/or fly bigger planes to those airports as soon as this is economically advantageous. The trend in new international airports is towards longer runways for safety, future-proofing, and economic benefits. Unless there is a serious terrain constraint or a built-up area close-by. Even new runways added to existing airports tend to be longer if at all possible.
It looked to me like it was a 'perfect storm' combination of tailwind and aquaplaning but, as you said, the pilots of the MD11 were on alert for this possibly happening and, when it became clear that the aircraft wasn't decelerating fast enough, they ramped up the reversers to emergency full. However, the fact the reversers came on at high power towards the end of the run suggests that they were hit by an unexpectedly large gust and it knocked the aircraft off of their anticipated (and previously achieved) deceleration curve.
technical failure is a good point - this reminded me of an incident which happened i think in the late 80s in düsseldorf, germany. an approaching lufthansa DC10 experienced flaps malfunction and thus it had to land at a much higher speed. combined with a wet runway, they ended up in the mud after the end of the runway. (this incident was also "featured" in an episode of the german düsseldorf-airport-themed tv show named "abenteuer airport".)
"Runway excursion"
It almost sounds like fun, like a field trip.
Maybe that's what's wrong. People think it's a fun thing. Maybe call it something like "plane eats dirt" and I'm sure the number of incidents will go down.
Yes exactly --- Plane to Pilot "right, you've taken me on a little excursion, now it's my turn".
Hi, That's what I thought. I was seeing the picnic basket and blanket and everything. Yours,Ann
@@sampathsris Well "excursion" is used instead because it's not JUST exiting the runway, but also... leaving the landing zone of the runway area.
Every cabin should have a mother sitting quietly inside it. So just in case when the plane is about to land she can say, "Jacob, before you leave the cabin, have you got your thrust reversers on?"
Yes and also, "before you leave the cabin, please park the plane and do the shutdown checklist" 😅
In a way there is a kind of mother already in a lot of the automated voice warnings, although there's a mix between the sexes depending on the plane. There's a nice interview with the voice actor behind one of them under a "'Bitchin' Betty' Bids Farewell" headline. The Russian air force has a "Nagging Nadia" as well.
My Mother would say always Make sure to take another Pair of clean Under wear and Pants in case something happens lol
I've lived in BOM for 30+ years and used 14/32 Runway many times, although it is the secondary (9/27 is the primary). People watching this video need to understand what heavy rain in the tropics means. It's truly staggering how much water can collect within seconds and minutes. Runway 14 has an easy approach with no high obstacles but it is the shorter of the two at BOM. On first glance, water is definitely a cause (either aquaplaning or reduced braking). However, the investigation will determine where touchdown happened and what the brake settings were, etc. Remember also that runway 27 (primary) has had two runway overrun excursions in the previous two monsoon seasons, both during extreme rain. Both were 737s if I remember correctly.
MK KM the SpiceJet one happened right in front of me on 27 while we were lined up. That was the first rain of the monsoon and it was really very bad. Many reports of windshear and go around.
I’m not much of a global traveler, so I’m unsure of how similar my story is, but here goes:
Many many years ago, my aunt described her reaction to hearing new neighbors and colleagues tell her that they “never drive when it rains”.
My aunt, having grown up in the Midwest and experienced in driving in both rain and snow storms, thought her new neighbors in California were being strangely over cautious. That was, until she experienced a heavy, Southern California downpour for herself and then understood what her new neighbors and colleagues were talking about.
I have not personally experienced a Southern California downpour, but based on my aunts vocalization and body language, I would probably look for a place to pull over if I was driving in California and a heavy storm were to cross my path.
Your comment reminded me of my aunt telling her story… now if I can remember to ask my favorite FedEx pilot if he has had similar experience at this airport
@@tanya5322 yeah, it's like the old term "cow drowner", IE rain so heavy it's physically dangerous to stand outside. I got to experience it first hand when the tropical storm Isabel made landfall in the DC area. I would NOt want to fly anything in THAT weather.
Landing an MD-11 at Mumbai in weather like that? Good job making it safely! :D
@@tanya5322 Possibly similar to what the 4pm thunderstorm showers in the Tampa Bay area used to be like. (I understand that those are changing too now due to climate change.) In a flash, the streets would be flooded, and I would be wading home instead of walking.
He always keep updated with aviation news...👍
Glad you liked it
You Must Remember. Your Coming in, &, all of sudden, your blinded by a Pink Nail Salon. Dated wall paper keeping me from concentrating. Dangerous, Yes. Severe Headache! Pan Pan Pan!!! & No Patxi? CJ
Hello Mentour Pilot, please Why and How do planes land with their nose pointing upwards?
ur dark side because they need to touch down with the main gear and if the came down flat it would touch the nose gear first and the nose gear is not strong enough to touch down first.
The Crazy Banana “Main Gear” touch down first for (1) control, (2) slow down, (3) and if need arises to immediately power up for a go around. (4) if you land on the nose gear it would collapse and the pilot would lose control of the aircraft...
So in summary, a major reason for runway excursions is that the pilots aren’t doing absolutely fantastic.
Chris Walton lol
Spoiler :(
(Jk)
That wasn’t really the point he was getting at
Or that they didn’t stay tuned. 🤷♂️
I'd say that's true, regardless of whether it's ATC error, Pilot Error, Technical failure or weather that's less then fantastic. Any combo of those will give a pilot a bad day.
For some reason I laughed my ass off when Petter said "no matter HOW much you try to brake, it doesn't matter, you're just HAULING down the runway". I didn't expect that particular colloquialism from Petter's Swedish English! As usual, wonderful presentation, an absolute master this guy is! Really fun to watch and listen to.
It's always good to have that "extra part" of runway as reserve.
One of the best developments in my life has been for aviation enthusiasts to have access to RL experts like yourself. Thank you for all of your content and wishing you good fortune in your career.
3:29 Yes the runway was closed between noon and 7PM due to bad weather (Cyclone Nisarga).
Random but FedEx really likes the MD-11, I live by Newark and there is like 25 to 50 which come in every single day. That company really knew how to build solid work horses, just look at the mad dogs, they really hold up well
Yes, it seems like it.
Mentour Pilot omg u responded! Stay safe
MD-11 is the second heaviest workhorse we have at FedEx, next to Boeing 777.
While people like to bash MD, this planes still logging hours in the skies. Why is that ?
They scrap planes half of this age or less. MD-11s still going. Douglas knew their sh1t pretty well and even when MD-11 wasnt the expected plane if the early 90s, it finds its place in the cargo industry.
robert smith Yes, every day I see the same planes flying all over the world whether it’s to Hong Kong or Charles de Gaulle or anywhere, do you work at FedEx?
I thought a runway excursion was a guided tour for aviation geeks where they get to look at interesting stuff around the runway, like lights, equipment, ILS antennas, radio huts etc.
Incursions go in and excursions go out. I'm just starting to watch so yeah, excursion is confusing me.
So it does mean going out. Learned something new today. The plane left (went off of) the runway.
That would be absolutely fantastic if that’s what it really meant. Sign me up. 😁
I thought it involved a picnic too
Thank you
Me in X-Plane 11: runway excursion every single landing.
Lol, I bounce every time 😁
Same for me -.-
Fluffy -Fluffy If you’re bouncing then your landing speed is simply too fast. Try coming over the numbers 5 knots slower, and just before touchdown raise the nose a little higher than you do today, even if that means a slight float.
Runway? :)
@@fltof2 it's not only the reason tho, I tend to bounce when I flare too much too late(I mean touching down at high pitch and high descend rate)
I just wanted to say, I AM NOT A PILOT OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE AVIATION PROFESSION, but I love watching your videos a lot and enjoy learning about the aviation field. Just wanted to say that.
I feel the same way 🎉😊
I’m just an ordinary member of the public. I have been watching your videos for sometime now and I’m very impressed with their quality and the information provided. Given that I’m sure a great number of the people watching your videos are pilots, I am beginning to think that one of the best pieces of safety equipment in the airline industry is yourself. Thank you!
@Mentour Pilot : Don't forget measurement bias in the figures. The ability to measure minor excursions has increased over time. If you go back 10 years or more, then the MD11 wouldn't have been classed as an excursion many times. It'd depend if anyone noticed and cared enough to classify it as such.
Also not clear if he meant that excursions are becoming more common in absolute terms, in terms of percentage of landings, or in terms of percentage of incidents (this last one being what the pie graph shows). By definition, if other kinds of incidents are becoming less common as a percentage of incidents (because those problems are being solved), something else is becoming more common.
@@scottwood4372 And also if there are more landings overall, there would be more incidents and accidents overall. I bet that 2020 and 2021 had much fewer runway excursions than 2019, but does that indicate that the problem is solved? :)
I've actually seen that plane , while my 737 was taxing , I saw a trijet , and snapped a couple pictures , I just checked and it's the same one that I took photos of ( btw , amazing pronounciation Petter )
Cool!!
Glad you liked it!
That must be a terrifying event for you..
Another excellent, detailed video! Thanks for the excellent technical detail as to the precise definition of a “runway excursion” for incident reporting purposes. Until I saw your video, I did not have a clear picture of how there could have been a runway excursion that was cleared so quickly and with no damage to either the runway or the aircraft. But now that is perfectly clear to me. Thanks again for all you do to educate your viewers and bring us precise understanding of technical issues.
yeah, "excursion" in this case is a minor technicality and given the bad weather, I doubt anyone but maintenance personnel really cared.
When it rains in Mumbai, it really really rains !
Monsoooooooooon!
Wasn't that a cyclone
@@anshagrawal6289 it rains heavy even without cyclone. Usually
I try to avoid flights to Mumbai during the monsoon. It is really scary.
@@Kjellmagneask WOW, monsoons never scared me. They're kinda awesome that so much water can fall from the sky but that's it.
That’s why the excess areas at the end of the runway are there - for extra runoff in an emergency . The MD11 is a compromised aircraft in crosswinds and windshear - HKG, LAX ETC ETC
Excellent video as always. The fact we even get to hear about these excursions is because they are rare. For every takeoff or landing that overruns, just think how many do not. Why don't they happen more often? Because these folks are professionals. They are at the top of their game keeping you and me safe. When it does go wrong, they investigate, learn and improve. My thanks to every single one of them: pilots, navigators, cabin crew, ATC, maintenance, all of them.
Mumbai is a difficult airport when it has weather .
It always has weather. Even if it doesn’t rain it has weather.
Fluffy -Fluffy *bad weather 😅
Absolutely fantastic explanation as always , many thanks for the time you spend for us to enjoy these videos !!
"I don't want to talk about ongoing investigations". And THEN he met Blancolirio
CHORTLE. !!
Fantastic explanations as always, absolutely fantastic. Thanks for the great content Petter
Thank YOU for being here and supporting!
Thanks for the explanation. This occurred in the secondary runway 14/32 in my city airport!
Brake system B failed after landing an HS-748 where I was pilot monitoring. The Captain told me to assist him with my braking pedals floored. The aircraft stopped, and I could see the River Guadalquivir (second longest river in Spain) flowing under my seat in the cockpit. The Captain taxied, turning 180º back to the runway and then to the apron. He told me later that we hadn't stepped onto any of the very expensive runway-end lights. What I was relieved for was not that, but that we hadn't had to swim back to the river bank.
Hi, very good explanation. For the viewers, Hydroplaning is aquaplaning.
William Cherne It sure is! Lol
Great video! Love these frequent notifications from your channel! Be safe!
I do what I can!
Keep safe you to!
I was stranded in Mumbai during the terrible monsoon of 2005. The airport was flooded, many systems weren't working and the airport was closed. When it was re-opened with very low cloud an Air India plane landed and skidded off the runway. I was travelling with South African Airlines, who were brilliant in every way, care of passengers, information and so on. To cut a long story short, when we were finally able to leave we were in a queue of planes, the one that took off in front of us disappeared in the water it threw up. Obviously, as I am writing this we took off safely but I have never heard a pilot sound so relieved and shaken at the same time. Thank you SAA you were wonderful.
My congratulations for the 600k subs Peter! You do a great job with your explanations. Especially for people who don't know about that daily work "problems" as a pilot, like in this case. I think if one of those events like you discribe in this video happend, this pilots did a great job. And as i know... The MD11 is a beast to land even in NORMAL conditions. Gracias y hasta luego:)
Hello Mentour, there is one thing you need to understand about the MD-11. The reason you hear the reversers in this video begin to spool down before they reach taxi speed is because they have to. At FedEx it is required to completely stow the reversers by 60kts on all landings other than some kind of emergency, of course. That's why you hear them do that in the video. Then they obviously realized they weren't going to stop in time and so they spooled the reversers back up again. The reason for this runway excursion was not caused by the reversers or their usage. Something else happened earlier, although we can't see what that was. They could have landed long, too fast, too much tailwind, hydroplaning or any number of things that can't be determined from this video. Furthermore, reverse thrust is not even considered when making landing distance calculations in this plane, at least at FedEx. It's all based on brakes and spoilers. Any benefit from the reversers is just icing on the cake, but not required. Just thought you would like to know so that you and your viewers can understand why the reversers spooled down before getting to taxi speed.
I will feel so comfortable and safe flying with Mentour Pilot
Aquaplaning is when your MD-11 suddenly becomes a seaplane
Hi Mentour, I'm from Mumbai. Thank you for talking about this incident.
Respected sir,
Very nice good coverage now u coming into air journalism too love from India
Please, don't ever stop starting these with, 'I hope you're doing absolutely fantastic!'
Another very good and interesting video. You are at the top of your game these days, Petter. Cheers!
Thank you, Mentour. I really appreciate you insight into this excursion and your explanations. These are some of the best videos that you do because I always learn something. Great job!
Thank you for another outstanding program! Note: It seems noteworthy that this problem (excursions) is on the rise. It would be of interest to know whether this is happening pretty much in an equal distribution around the globe, & among different carriers, & among the various commercial aircraft, or are there certain scenarios where risk is disproportionately elevated. Thank you again!
That’s a great question. It seems to be pretty equally distributed but the increase in foul weather probably plays a part. Also the widening of destinations to include shorter runways could play a part.. it’s definitely worth studying
@@MentourPilot Your work (careful reconstructions/thoughtful analyses) just has to be building awareness, improving safety, & saving lives. If this particular area (excursions) is unique in lagging behind otherwise across-the-board advances in aviation safety, perhaps extra attention to it could result in meaningful differences/trend reversal. (Incidental: An old friend, Waldon Weaver (now flying for St. Peter & staff), used to say that aviation's a microcosm of earth & everything on it - starting with intelligent design, & proceeding to include all modifications thereafter. If, e.g., changing weather issues adversely impact aviation, they must necessarily also impact everything else. So it is too, Wally would say, that literally everything that goes on anywhere falls within the purview of aviation (& influences the interlinked actions transforming primitive raw materials into the highly sophisticated reality of modern aviation). This is just to suggest that if Wally were still among us, he'd resoundingly cheer & encourage your work, & say that in whatever ways every aspect of aviation can be improved, civilization itself is commensurately strengthened. Thank you, Mentour Pilot!
Good advice. When I worked nights caring for very fragile kids with leukemia, I had a similar policy-to learn all I could from mistakes that ALMOST resulted in harm. Learn then and you'll avoid those with bad consequences. The same is true in aviation. Learn, learn, learn... always learning.
Your truely exceptional human being. I've watched 50% of your videos. I've learnt so much from you, even though I'm not in avaiation. You can apply what you describe to many occupation.
Most of the issues you’ve mentioned can be applied to driving a car or riding a motorcycle. Hydroplaning… braking with or without antilock brakes, driving too fast for conditions, etc. when riding a motorcycle we are taught to be careful of tar snakes. The tar snake repairs the road has can get slick in the rain and in the heat. Love your channel!
Runway 14 in Mumbai is very easy to have a long flare and longer than expected landing roll on, especially during the horrible rains that BOM has. Everything is ripe for an overrun: there’s a significant downslope, more pronounced than published figures because of a hump in the middle as I remember, there’s a displaced threshold (LDA is actually 2471m as compared to the 2871m that a pilot first sees on the Jep airport diagram), quartering tailwinds are common and as far as I can remember the papi and glide might not be well matched lol. Beware fellas
How am I supposed to be "careful", when no one gives me access to the cockpit? I guess I just have to try harder
I read that the MD11 is a beast to land in certain weather conditions. I remember a fedex md11 crashed in Tokyo when it bounced instead of landing and staying on the runway. I think the Tokyo crash had a strong wind component too, i dont remember if was a cross wind then too. The design of the md11 makes it vulnerable to bouncing undeceive certain conditions.
mark salmon I’ve heard this, too. It’s apparently a touchy plane to fly and I think they require a higher landing speed than most airliners because it has a smaller tail plane than the DC-10.
MD-11 tail surfaces haven been reduced in comparison to the DC-10 to achive better fuel figures. Arlines put order with fuel figures as mandatory ... They couldnt reach the figures, so they reduced the surface to reduce drag. As a consequence, they need to be landed faster than other jets. But is all about practice. It a well known issue. Every plane can bounce. MD-11 error magin is smaller. Thats all. It is a beast when it comes to take off. See lufthansa cargo vid of the MD-11 around the globe. Pilots LOVE them.
I recall an MD-11 crash in foul weather in Hong Kong too.
Isn't the MD-11 the plane with the highest landing speed of any civilian aircraft ever built? That's a big complaint pilots at DAL had when they flew the MD-11 in passenger service.
@@ZboeC5 Makes sense. Same cockpit but different characteristics.
It looked like a brief flame on the left engine, could that have been from water ingesting into the engine?
Yes, two flashes. As we don't have video of the entire landing, I wonder if it happened more than once and perhaps the pilots got prevented from using a higher reverse setting from water ingestion.
I think it was a light flashing
Looks like a compressor stall. The engine will briefly shoot flames during a compressor stall.
If it was reverse thrusting and the left engine gave up, it would have swerved the other way due to any asymmetric thrust?
Good question, Even I am confused about this.
As usual very well explained to us none pilots. Many thanks.🇬🇧
Drop the anchor
"I'll give you three different reasons why aircraft normally have runway excursions"
Do they? I am by no means a frequent flyer but have travelled by air. And I yet have to experience my first runway excursion.
Sorry, I could not resist.
Thank you for your content! As an aviation enthusiast and glider pilot I love your perspective on how the big iron is operated. Also it is really interesting to see that even a wide-body jet airliner is still just an airplane bound by physics. So I do learn things for my own everyday flying.
It looks to me that about 4 seconds before the plane came to a stop, #1 engine had several compressor stalls. I saw 3 or 4 bright flashes in the area of the engine inlet.
7:18 Captain Joe also mentioned (and showed an example) that in an aquaplaning situation it is actually possible to melt the tire rubber if the brakes are used in that situation.
Yep, hence the anti-skid
The straight tire lines video?
Christopher,do you have a link to that video? This doesn't make sense to me so I probly just don't understand what you said. If the tires are aqua planing they are basically water skiing, there will be no where on them what so ever. Maybe you mean if they are locked up when they come back into contact with the pavement they will wear flat spots or even blow out?
Thanks
@@MentourPilot man you and captain Joe are the best RUclipsrs can you and captain Joe do a live stream being that your both boeing pilots. And as always “keep the blue side up”
@@souocara38able that's exactly it. The wheels need to be free to spin up to speed before brakes are applied once the aquaplaning starts. Without the anti skid that would have to be done by the pilot's aware control.
At 13:44 there is a brief engine flame out I don’t know if you can see it! What can cause such thing in this situation? Great video Mentour!
I must say I surprised that this really didn't have much to do with the particular incident at hand but an overall description of cluttered runway arrivals. I can confirm that Mumbai is not a good airport to land at in bad weather. You should have mentioned that the runways there are also not grooved which certainly improves stopping dist. Our data changed dramatically when a runway was grooved. These guys were stable and did a professional job considering they were also on the shortest runway. I was lucky that I made 2 approaches there to the longest runway (9/27) one day and fortunately never saw the runway due to monsoon rains (with a HUD & EFVS). I, too, would have had the deck stacked against me considering the data showed we were "legal" to land even though the last 1,000' of the runway was closed for construction, there was a quartering tailwind and the runway was not grooved.
I really enjoy this type of video. Your analysis and explanations are clear and understandable. Thanks so much! Oh, and now I know why a "spoiler" is called a spoiler!
As far as I know thai plane need High speeds to land
The MD-11 is not an extended DC-10! There are major differences and that is why it is not a DC-10-whatever. I was an engineer on the MD-11 project and was onboard all 200 of them. I was also plane captain for the first one (which carried the torch for the Atlanta Olympic Games). I am very proud of these aircraft and actually signed my name inside the nose gear well on the first and the last.
You are absolutely Mentour👍
Can you do a segment on when you apply flaps during a descent? Is it speed, altitude or is there an indication that tells you when and how much degrees of flaps? I’d love to know. Thanks for all of your expertise.
Yeah that's what I want to see aswell. I would like to know how the pilot knows what speeds the to use the flaps.
Is it for flight sim purposes? Sometimes planes have charts in the cockpit showing max flap/speed. Also boeing planes show In the attitude indicator screen your speed which will also show with red boxes if your going to fast or slow for your current flap selection.
The short answer is that you deploy another notch of flaps when you want to fly slower than is safe for the current flaps configuration. The minimum and maximum speeds for different flaps configurations are in various handbooks and in the flight computer (which displays them on the speed tape in a second-generation glass cockpit) and the maximum speeds are listed on the flaps placard.
BurrFan, every flap has a limiting speed: fly faster than that, and you risk structural damage. On the A320 for example, Flap 1 has a speed limit of 230 kts, Flap 2 200 kts, Flap 3 185 kts and Flap full 177 kts. When would you want to extend them? The answer: as late as possible, because flaps cause drag, and we want to burn as little fuel as possible. So flaps are taken when slowing down for the approach. Here in India, ATC wants us to be at 180 kts by 20 nm to touchdown, and since the aircraft covers a mile for every 10 kts speed reduction, I reduce power at about 27 miles to touchdown, then take flaps 1 at about 24 miles and flaps 2 at about 22 miles. Flap 3 (and, if required, Flap full) is usually taken once on the glideslope after the landing gear is lowered. While these figures are for the A320, you'll find fairly similar ones for other turbofans at other places as well.
@@AtulBhatia The numbers are very informative and paint a clear picture. Thank you for the insight!
Thanks capt ,you always ahead of the rest
Glad you liked it
As always, your explanations and descriptions are easy to understand and enjoyable to watch and hear. I do have a question, though, unrelated to this. Recently I flew into Seatac Airport (Seattle, Washington). There I noticed that many of Alaska Airlines' planes had what appeared to be a "safety tape" hanging from the underside of the tail of each plane and ending in what appeared to be a metal disk sitting on the tarmac. I did NOT notice any planes of other airlines with the same device. What is that for--and why and when is it deployed?
First thing I notice is the way you flash 3 fingers to indicate 3 items. I learned the difference when I watched Inglorious Basterds.
Aquaplaning is actually the German word for Hydroplaning. It surprised me when that word was chosen for hydroplaning. I almost expected Petter to use the word "vattenplanering", which is the same word in Swedish. I actually didn't know that, I had to look it up. It made me curious because I was stationed in Germany in the Military Police, and when I dealt with the German Police, that's when I heard the word aquaplaning. So I wondered if it was the same in Swedish, and I found out it was not, but interestingly enough, I did find out aquaplaning is used in the UK as well. By the way, I stumbled on to these video's purely by accident. I found myself reeled in so to speak, and now I cannot get enough of them. These are great videos and very informative. I have found myself telling everyone I know about them including my Grandkids. I figured if they get the aviation bug maybe they will want to be pilots when they get older. Thank you!!!
I love that it’s called an excursion. It sounds like an adventure. Not an adventure I necessarily want to have in most cases. ;)
An adventure you NEVER want
Ford built a humongous SUV called the Excursion - biggest SUV ever built apparently.
@@paulflory3532, William Wordsworth wrote a long poem called 'The Excursion' in 1814 . . .
Opposite of an incursion
I thought it was incursion, but i guess there is both :)
Excellent, I liked how explanative you were. I learnt a lot. Thanks
All this happened a few kilometres away from here so it kinda feels good you talking about my city.
Ideally it shouldn't, considering it's a mishap after all!
Brilliant and very informative! Thanks a lot.
Happy to hear that you liked it!
@Mentour Pilot:
ABS/Anti-Slip is actually reducing break distance only a little bit and mostly on dry surfaces. It's purpose is to keep the wheel spinning thus alowing for at least some controllability. If the wheel slips, it will no longer pass on any sideway forces (i.e. if you want to drive a curve). For a plane that basically means sideway winds would push the plane sideways off the runway if the wheels would lock up.
again: Since anti-slip releases break pressure over and over again and altough it maintains a spinning wheel (=better friction) it still comes down to almost the same stopping distance in very wet or icy conditions.
A little throwback. Back in 2003 or 4, I dont know the exact year. A Boeing 737-400 operating with Air Sahara, a private Indian airlines (which later on merged with Jet airways) overran the exact runway and its nose gear collapsed as a result that runway was put out of commission for many days. As you are a 737 pilot you should be intrested in that incident.
Thank you Petter. As always, absolutely fanatic!
Does the center engine on the MD-11 have a thrust reverser? Just a curious question.
Yes it does
Yes it does.
Excellent video mate
I always hit the like button before your videos start 👍🏼😁
Heey, I've thought of a really good example of this!. Last year's F1 German grand Prix! Just off the circuit next to the last few turns there is a drag strip! The race turned really wet and where the drag strip had not been cleared or treated before the race, thus covered in a thick layer of rubber from burnouts etc as soon as any of the F1 cars made a mistake and got off track slightly and onto they surface they just slid like on sheet ice, you can look it up here on RUclips!. The rain just sat ontop of the layer of rubber and no matter what any of the drives did the cars just slid off lost no speed into the barriers!
Don't make me remind that man! I am a Mercedes fan😅
Perfect and very easy to understand explanation. Thank you for your efforts. A really good channel. Fly safe and stay healthy.
Interesting about the rubber collecting at the touchdown zone. Just last week I was listening to a "heavy" pilot exchange with approach ATC: METAR indicated no precipitation, but it had rained heavily a few hours prior, and the roads still showed moisture.
The heavy pilot was telling ATC that they were in approach based on METAR, but [they must've learned via company backchannel] if the runway was still wet they'd have to divert. At this point my wife called me - doh!
The heavy must've been at the very limit of their limits, and wet rubber residue makes a good explanation for why they were concerned about wet runway hours after the rain.
Actually, I believe it's more commonly called Hydroplaning, not Aquaplaning, although grammatically, either is correct.
Thank you
In Germany it was always called Aquaplaning, at least in the automotive industry ... for all the nearly half of a century I have my driver's licence now.
And BTW what you call ABS in the automotive industry - the anti-skid system for airplanes - AFAIK actually originated in aviation.
When I studied EE one of the professors we had worked for the automotive industry and he told us such systems were already standard equipment for airplanes.
Just around at that time (mid 1970s) they began to put ABS into cars, more in the high end models at first. Sometime as an add-on for which you had to pay extra money. Substantial extra money.
Funnily enough I think aquaplaning makes more sense, despite being less commonly used. Plane or planum being a Latin word would agree better with aqua which is also Latin, than compared to the _greek_ word hydro.
But maybe it's a technical difference relating to the types of fluid involved
@@mittelwelle_531_khz Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but the international language of aviation is English by default & in English, we DO call it Hydroplaning, especially in the Auto industry.
I am A.S.E. certified (but have been thinking about going back to school to become an aviation tech), but I did not know that's what it was called in German. I'm guessing a number of other Romanish languages used predominantly in Europe call it the same; but again, English is the default language in the sky, sooooo....
In Italian "idroplano" is a plane with floats. The skidding thing is called "effetto acquaplano"
SAS DC 10 -30 from Stockholm skidded off the runway at JFK in Feb 1984..
Poor monitoring of faulty auto throttle was agreed as being the main cause. This plane was repaired and could still be flying at FedEx today.
Are we going to talk about the pink wallpaper? Or are we letting it go?
love your videos and how you break it down and explain in detail
Back when I was a young teenager a friend and I rode our bikes to the BNA perimeter and, at Chuck’s encouragement, went onto a runway, probably 19. We rode our bikes on the runway until I decided that this wasn't such a good idea. He wanted to keep riding on the runway but I insisted on turning around and leaving.
Imagine that back then in the 1960s Berry Field (Berry NAshville), now Nashville International Airport, was not fenced.
McGavock Pike is still visible where it went right up to where the end of the runway was back then.
The Tennessee Air National Guard area is still called “Berry Field.”
19:24 That's my notification tune too. When I heard it I thought I had got a notification 😂
Great video! Thank you for explaining how runway excursions could happen during landing. I know about runway excursions during taxiing and towing activities, or anywhere you cross the runway holding position lines, but hadn't thought about that they could occur during landings.
Great stuff, as always. Obviously the systems differ somewhat by airplane, but could you do a video on the braking design and antilock braking system of commercial jets? It sounded as though you said each wheel's ABS is totally independent (hopefully); not sure why you indicated you could get a message to manual brakes. In engineering braking systems for automobiles, we never give the consumer a choice to override ABS.
You do give the consumer a choice. They can pull a fuse :) And overriding is there because there are malfunctions and it would be really silly if the built in diagnostics missed a malfunction and then the pilot was stuck unable to override it. There are circumstances when ABS is detrimental to braking performance. Typically deep snow would be one. When you lock the wheels while going slow in deep snow, a pile of snow builds up in front of the wheel and adds drag. Automotive ABS is not designed to detect such conditions, and will act inappropriately. When going slow in deep snow, I just pull the fuse. It’s safer that way. Typically that would be on unpaved country roads, and on driveways around whatever property I’m getting to, and there’s no way to go faster than 15-20mph then while maintaining control anyway.
on most motorbikes, you can turn ABS off (or switch its level of sensitivity) - the reason is different though. ABS doesn't like off-roading and dirt-biking.
this is the second scary video at Mumbai International Airport I've watched just today
Congratz on the Sponsership! Good for you man.
We call that hydroplaning across the pond. And we call rubber deposits "in the marballs"
After a fashion
What were the 2 flashes from #1 engine at about 2:34, compressor stalls or did he hit runway lights or something else?
I don't think it's linked to runway lights, compressor stall I think is the more likely of the two with all of that water moving up and in front of the engine nacelle while being sucked back in. Weird that it happened though considering how rigorous the testing of commercial aircraft and the engines used for such aircraft is. Will be interesting to see what the investigation finds but I think if you're in the Mentour Pilot app it's a better place to get an answer from the Captain or someone else potentially in the aviation field. 😁👍
Great video & content Cap !
Hi everyone, i am a new subscriber. As such there are certain things i want to know. What is the name of this remarkable pilot who is teaching us so much? i want your history, and when i win lotto, i want YOU to be the pilot who flies me from new zealand to ireland, because i want to go home but will never trust any other pilot except you. What a great channel, no BS.....all good, sound information on one of my passionate interests. Thank you.
The runway shape, high in the middle and sloping away to the sides, is called 'crowned' in English. Most vehicle roads in the US are crowned for the same reason (to facilitate water runoff).
I'm so glad the pilots didn't do what I've seen way too often on accident documentaries: Realize way too late there was a problem and try to take off again. As I understand it, that's not supposed to happen after thrust reversers are activated.
Great video! Is aqua-planing an aviation-specific term, or more a general European reference? In the U.S. I've always heard it called hydroplaning. Thanks.
Ooh, tricky one! Basically it's all the same sort of thing, David. In Britain we tend to call road vehicles sliding on water 'aquaplaning' because hydroplaning seems more connected with the vanes/ wings on proper watercraft like speedboats and submarines.
I think a 'hydrovane' is a steering mechanism for a yacht, so - in Britain at least - the 'hydro' prefix is mostly reserved for anything that's actually supposed to be afloat. (I'm sure there are numerous exceptions, so please don't quote me on that.)
Hydrofoils and hydroplanes are definitely boats, though, so using the term aquaplaning for road vehicles avoids confusion with them. Well, sort of.
Bottom line: 'aqua-' is slightly less nautical than 'hydro-' but it's just as soggy. ;-)
Just depends on whether you prefer greek or latin. Hydra and aqua both mean the same thing and are interchangeable
Aquaplaning or Hydroplaning was a major contribution to the American Airlines Flt 1420 MD82 Accident at Little Rock. Also the QANTAS Flight 1, a B747 overrun of the runway in similar monsoon weather in Bangkok..
Blancolerio said the braking heat created steam from the water on the runway is what you are seeing in addition to mist from the reverseres
Hi Mentour, hope you are fine in these unprecedented times. I remember another incident in Cochin International Airport (COK) involving a passenger aircraft, which veered to the side of the runway and one of the main landing gears fell into a drainage ditch for water. Here also, there were no severe injuries or other damages. But regarding the cause, it is not yet disclosed in the media, as far as I could remember. Since you told that these incidents are on the rise, could there be an element of error in the flight simulators or their software updates, which does not match the actual aircraft parameters? So a pilot might make the calculations in error, which works well on simulators but not on the actual equipment. A topic for discussion, if you wish and I would be honoured if you reply. Thanks in advance.
Hello Arun, in the incident you talk about, the aircraft did not go off the runway at high speed; it went off the taxiway due to a misidentification of the turning point, which in turn was made difficult by the heavy rain at night. Since then, Cochin airport has painted the non-maneuvering areas green so that they are more visible and less likely to be misidentified.
Simulator software is not an issue either; we use real-time software that takes a huge number of parameters into account while computing the landing distance. This is done for EVERY landing.
Great video as always!
I wonder, with takeoffs and landings being the most risky part of flying, and with more frequent runway excursions, and problems with engine failure at rotation,, would they look into making runways longer? I know not always practical if in the middle of a city, but could future airports have longer runways? wouldnt it be safer to have enough runway to be able to cancel at rotation or any situation that could occur at landing and takeoff?
Thanks!
If you make constrained runways longer, airlines are just going to load their planes more heavily and/or fly bigger planes to those airports as soon as this is economically advantageous. The trend in new international airports is towards longer runways for safety, future-proofing, and economic benefits. Unless there is a serious terrain constraint or a built-up area close-by. Even new runways added to existing airports tend to be longer if at all possible.
It looked to me like it was a 'perfect storm' combination of tailwind and aquaplaning but, as you said, the pilots of the MD11 were on alert for this possibly happening and, when it became clear that the aircraft wasn't decelerating fast enough, they ramped up the reversers to emergency full. However, the fact the reversers came on at high power towards the end of the run suggests that they were hit by an unexpectedly large gust and it knocked the aircraft off of their anticipated (and previously achieved) deceleration curve.
PETTER, MENTOUR, always excellent recording.
technical failure is a good point - this reminded me of an incident which happened i think in the late 80s in düsseldorf, germany. an approaching lufthansa DC10 experienced flaps malfunction and thus it had to land at a much higher speed. combined with a wet runway, they ended up in the mud after the end of the runway. (this incident was also "featured" in an episode of the german düsseldorf-airport-themed tv show named "abenteuer airport".)
Thanks again, fascinating as always.
Another great and very informative video.