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@MentourPilot Thank you so much for the fantastic video Petter, great job as always. Would you perhaps consider covering the Adria Airways crash in Corsica? It was a crash that significantly influenced the development of pilot-traffic control communication standards.
@MentourPilot Can someone with a mental condition which is controlled by medicine and its under control can someone like me can land a plane if i was the only one left if worse came to worse if i was on an airplane i saw that video of ordinary people can land a plane?
@@JASONCIRONE-kp4xr He made a video on his other channel explaining clearly that for an amateur to land a commercial plane (it doesn't matter what kind of amateur, mental condition or not) the conditions would have to be near perfect and you would have to have loads of time and clear communication with someone on the ground to lead you. Such a scenario is not just unlikely, but completely unrealistic. In short: You would almost certainly crash the plane, like the rest of us who never piloted anything.
@@thayrathyn i kind of of figure i would because i am not very good at taking in hard instructions like that it be to overwhelming i would crash the plane
@@JASONCIRONE-kp4xr I gathered that it might be possible for someone with a good mind for detail, and who knows a few other things like radio communication conventions, to put the craft into autoland mode and then steer the craft to a stop. Without that, there'd be no sense for how the craft will behave. This also depends on not being shut out of the cockpit.
Yes, I was on this flight in Row 11. My son shared this video with me today. It's been 33 years this week since this horrible tragedy occurred. The details in this video are very insightful and as a survivor, still hard to watch. I remember the flight attendants did tell us to get into a "crash" position (head between our knees) as soon as we hit the other plane. We had touched down and as our nose was going down, we hit the commuter flight waiting to take-off. I knew we had hit something, the pilot hit the brakes hard, and the plane immediately burst into flames as it bumped forward. I could tell we were on grass at one point. My seat unhinged and was on top of me. My seat mate whom I was talking with most of the flight, lifted it off of me. He ended up being one of the two men trying to open the Left Wing exit door. The woman in that seat was frozen in fear, and they were struggling, not fighting (as some later reported) to open it. That wing was on fire, so he was badly burned upon exiting and rolling off of the wing. It is a true miracle that no other passengers went out of that exit where there was a great deal of flames. A blessing actually. It was chaotic inside, dark, and smokey. We had only minutes to get out. I climbed over the seats to find the wing exit. I was the last one to exit on the Right wing. I remember looking back and only seeing smoke billowing out of the exit door behind me. Most of the passengers went to the back to try and exit. Since we were positioned on top of another plane, we were higher from the ground. I looked for a slide or ladder or anything from the wing to the ground, but there was none so I decided to jump out of fear that the plane would blow up. I shattered both of my feet on impact, but didn't know it until I made it to triage. When we hit the abandoned fire station, we had just barely missed the Pan Am International glass terminal full of hundreds of passengers. Some of our passengers were banging on the doors to get in, but couldn't. I remember the faces of the people inside who couldn't help us. Later, we were told that at first thought, it may have been a potential terrorist attack. They didn't know that another plane was involved until they found a propeller. It was awful and I'm so incredibly sad for those that were lost that night. Everyone on the USAir flight survived the impact except for our brave pilot. Those that lost their lives just couldn't get out or never unbuckled their seat belts out of shear fear. Sadly, we hear about close call runway incursions too frequently, and a few years after this fatal crash, I was in another runway incursion at LAX, but our pilot had time to abort the landing and took off again over the ocean just in time to avoid it. God Bless you all and those that were affected by this sad tragedy.
My mom survived this crash. She was in row 11 and crawled over rows of seats to get to the right wing exit because the aisle was jammed. She jumped from the tip and broke both feet when she hit the ground but got up and ran from the fire. Her recount of the ordeal is literal nightmare fuel, it’s a miracle she survived. Thank you for making this video, I’ll be showing it to her today and can’t tell you how much it will mean to her. She’s not a fan of the “Mayday”/“Air Disasters” dramatization of it so it’ll be her first time hearing some of these details and getting answers to some questions. Thank you again Edit: sent her the video, she hasn’t watched yet but when I mentioned the detail about the guys fighting at the door she said one of them had been sitting next to her and talking with her for hours before the crash. He was a retired LA police officer and they still keep in touch. She says the “fighting” wasn’t really a fight and didn’t slow evacuation, it was about opening a door that led to the worst of the fire. The people who ended up using it were burned severely if they even made it out I’ll follow up with any details she shares after she watches Edit 2: “I watched it. He did a good job. He didn’t mention that the flight attendents were screaming, “everyone get in a crash position. Head between your knees!”. So that baffles me that people still unbuckled too early. Some never unbuckled and succumbed to the smoke. Lots of people came out with their carryon or purses. Dumb asses” Edit 3: Yes my badass mom is ShelleyH727
Hooooooooly sh't! Blimey. 😳😯😐👍 Pity she hadn't had any parachute training, land slightly sideways, knees both bent, and roll around and over along back. 👍😐
David Koch (of Koch Industries) was also a passenger on this plane. Apparently his near-death experience inspired his large amount of philanthropic and charitable donations.
@stephenj4937 yeah let's maybe not talk about a guy who was listed as an associate to Jeffery Epstein by the FBI, like he was "Kind of a good guy" I'm sure his charitable donations were nothing more than tax breaks and a cover for his paedophilia
The captain on the metro was Andrew Lucas, he was my friend we learned to fly together. He was a force and guidance in my early flying life. Had it not been for his help and support I would not be an airline pilot. He is in Gods memory… rest in peace my friend and mentor.
I recently retired from SkyWest after 35 years and also flew with Andy. He was a great guy with a dry but great sense of humor. I am greatful to have flown with him and also apprtiate his mentorship. Rest in peace Andy.
@@darrellcook7790 Thanks Darrell for a respectful comment as we commiserate together. I get teary- eyed as I think of him. He saved me, I wish I could have done the same for him. He is missed, but we will see him again!
Shout out to that BAMF firefighter who saved the first officer. The kind of spine it takes to look at an inferno and decide to climb into it and give someone a chance to live is legendary!
Agreed, 100%! I was extremely surprised to hear that the First Officer survived -- I was sure it was guaranteed death being at the epicentre of the fire and smoke. First responders are the epitome of human greatness, and they have my eternal gratitude.
I was a air traffic controller at Los Angeles Air Route Traffic Control Center when this happened. One of my close colleagues, who was on my team, died on SKW Sky West. He was in his early 30s, married and a father of two very young children. His name is Scott Gillham. He was a good controller and a very nice guy. I had just ate lunch across from him a few days before this accident at our facility’s cafeteria. His funeral was packed with controllers and very emotional. It hit us hard. The tower controller was relocated to LAS Tower in an administrative job. She never controlled again. Her over the shoulder review that you mention, from my experience working 25 yrs controlling at both the Center and later LAX radar approach, was not a good review to have that many mistakes. Typically one might have 1 or 2 phraseology mistakes and nothing more. I retired from So Cal TRACON as a supervisor and if that was my employee, I would have utilized remedial training. Sad situation for both crew, passengers, and air traffic controllers,
@@mediocreman2 Its called the Peter principle where you are promoted until you do not show competency in the role you are promoted to. Its very very common to be good at a job get recognized for it, get promoted and then end up as out of your depth but no way to go back top your previous role.
Petter, as a member of the accident investigation team on this one, I would like to commend you for an excellent visual and oral presentation of 1493's demise. There are, as in all such situations, many side stories, some often better untold. This accident was a very "hot potato" for the FAA brass and more than once the NTSB IIC had to step in and restrict access to some of them. FYI-The "unused fire department building" that the wreckage collided with, had been constructed as a emergency fall back building to withstand an Atomic bomb attack on LA. Hence, it was close to an immovable object. The windows of the building were ,as I remember, at least 3" thick and withstood the impact of the two aircraft. Keep up the good work, my friend.
Sorry, what was the immovable object it was close to, and do you mean the planes crashed into this object or into the building as per what Petter said?
I used to work in medical regulation, and I love these videos so much. Honestly, medical regulators could learn so much from the aviation industry. The way regulators respond when things go wrong - without pinning everything on one individual and always assessing systemic issues - is truly something the medical industry should be doing. There's so much good practice to learn from!
Petter, the fact that so many of the actual people involved in these incidents respect you and feel safe to comment is a testament to your professionalism. Thanks.
Petter’s respectful and thoughtful approach to his videos are a huge reason why I watch this channel. It breaks my heart when creators sensationalize horrible incidents like this. One of my friends lost her father in the American Eagle 4184 crash (Chloe Howie at Disaster Breakdown has a video on it although I’d love to see Petter do one as well) and I always think of how she would feel if she was to see a video that was insensitive to the victims.
I know the child of one of the women who survived this crash posted that the fighting at the emergency exit wasn't really fighting per say, but it makes me think of the stories I have heard of plane crashes where ppl were fighting each other to get out. It's very sad but ppl will do anything when their life is on the line that they wouldn't normally do. Talking about this topic, I can give a little piece of advice to anyone who may need to help save someone who is drowning one day. As a lifeguard for many years, we are taught to swim up behind the victim. This is so the person can't grab onto you and pull you under in their panic. When you get behind them, take your non dominant arm and put it underneath their same arm (so if you're using your left arm put it under their left arm). As you do this place your arm diagonally up across their chest, with your hand then coming up to cup the side of their neck. Ppl drowning are thrashing and cupping your hand around their neck gives you a way to push their head back away from yours. Lifeguards have been knocked unconscious by thrashing victims slamming their heads into the lifeguard's. This keeps your dominant arm free to help you swim with the victim back to safety. Sorry for the long post but you never know if you might need this knowledge one day.
Look how smoothly and without incident the passengers at Haneda exited the aircraft recently. It says something about the cultural differences of how people react in an emergency or life threatening situation
@@markjohnson182 well, I don't know the details, but I would be careful not to draw so much conclusion from cultural differences. Yes, it's highly organized society, but I would rather talk about anti-earthquake and tsunami drills than culture. So conditioning you could train everwhere in the world, regardless the culture, with regular drills. (btw. spent sometime in Japan and this is why I am skeptical when hearing explanations putting all on culture. Most of the time is too easy explanation and has more to do with stereotypes).
@foxracing8973: I've also read that it's better to push a floatation device to a victim at least an arm's length away so the person can't grab onto you and drown you.
@markjohnson182: The circumstances of each accident differ. Accounts by survivors of the Haneda crash say that, after the plane stopped moving, the flight attendants waited minutes to decide on evacuation. The fuselage wasn't on fire at the time, although an engine was, due to the impact with the Coast Guard plane. Many passengers were screaming to evacuate, but the FAs shouted above the loud noises to wait for a decision, which came later. They repeatedly reminded folks to leave behind their baggage. The captain was the last person to evacuate after going up and down the aisles to verify that everyone got off the plane; this was 8 to 11 minutes after impact (accounts vary). Thus, the fire that later consumed the plane hadn't reached a critical point to kill anyone at the time. In the incident in this video, it was more critical to evacuate ASAP. Unfortunately, one of the exits that was opened led people directly into the raging fuel-fed fire. If the person who opened the door had followed proper procedures, he would've checked to see if outside conditions made it safe to do so. [The safety placards I've seen have icons that warn of dangers, such as fire, wreckage, etc.]
I'm a retired flight attendant who was based at LAX, and this is an excellent and detailed account of what happened. Thank you for covering this very tragic crash.
I always inform a flight attendant if I see anyone unfit to be in the exit row: too young/frail, non-English speaker, drunk, took a sleeping pill, etc. I once was seated behind an exit row, with a foreign family in front of me; only the dad spoke English. I flagged the FA, and she swapped our rows; as no good deed goes unpunished, the kid kicked my seat back a few times during the trip. On another flight, I saw a couple put their coats, bags, and hat in the overhead bins where an AED device and oxygen generators are stowed; they did that after a FA told them to leave those bins clear and walked away to monitor others. They closed the covers to hide what they did. I got up to wash my hands, and told the aft FA, so she could act like she saw what they did and lecture them. [The ironic thing is the FAs later put 2 packs of Dixie cups there, and used those cups during water service. Hah!] Anyway, I prefer window seats for the views, space, and peace from no traffic brushing by me. I always jump at the chance to get one in the exit row. I've gotten it many times, likely over 25% of all my 250+ flight segments, and 10 of my last 12. I always read the safety placard, study how to open the exit door, figure a good way to discard or stow any detached parts (handle cover, door) to not obstruct others, and count the number of rows to the next nearest exit. I keep myself buckled up, belt low and across my hip (restraint over belly may cause internal injuries).
@@oahuhawaii2141Good, I’m glad you do that. I wish more passengers would do that. When I fly I do try to get into the exit rows myself. Why? Because I work as ground crew and I operate both Boeing and Airbus doors all the time. But from the outside. I’d go over it again with a flight attendant just to make sure. I also discreetly let them know that I’m an aircraft cleaner and ramper and fully prepared to help them with anything should they need it. I know the interior almost as much as they.
@@mikoto7693: Glad you're ready to help out. I've asked the FA if it's better to raise the armrests during the emergency exit procedure, even if that isn't specified. I figure it reduces the chances of an armrest catching onto a passenger trying to rush out. I also suggested that the door panel, if removable, be placed in a seat in the non-exit row (either in front of or behind the exit row), rather than place it on the seat by the exit. The panel is another potential obstruction.
Thank you for covering this. I had a cousin who was on the USAir flight and died. Per his friends (who survived) he may have gone back for his briefcase :( Very important lessons I never forget now - *always* keep your seatbelt on until the plane *fully* stops, especially in a crash, *never* go back for a personal belonging, *don't* sit in an exit row unless you really can fulfill the job. People's lives may depend on it. RIP Jim, he left behind a wife and 5 children. He was very loved.
Sorry for the loss of your family member, and what a horrible ordeal for his friends who survived but will probably never know exactly what happened to your cousin.
@@reshpeck my family has a weird sense of humor, and Jim was a habitually late person. His wife made a joke at the funeral that they used to say he would be late for his own funeral - and because of issues with getting him sent back to Ohio, he really *was* late for his own funeral!
@@SusantheNerdy Well it honestly makes me happy to know that Jim might have thought my comment funny. I gave a eulogy for a friend who died of overdose/suicide a few years ago and all I did was talk shit about him, and everyone loved it because we all knew he would have laughed his ass off. I sincerely hope someone does the same for me one day. May Jim and all his important documents rest in peace!
So sorry to hear about your cousin. Life isn't fair, especially because one of the survivors was billionaire David Koch, who went on to massively damage the country for his own ends. Reminds me of Nigel Farage surviving an air crash back in 2010.
My Father, also an airline pilot who ended his career on the 737-300 had the same amazing story-telling ability. I remember him telling us about accidents, issues he had had during a flight, etc., and, he would also switch from the main narrative to the technical explanation... we would always listen, amazed at every detail. I miss the old man's stories, and this is about as close as I remember them to be. Thank you for that.
I was once allocated an overwing seat and a Flight Attendant briefed me on how to open the exit after checking I was able to do so, just as was described in this video. I appreciated them taking the time to do this, and I believe they also appreciated how I sat down and listened, paid attention and then asked them a short clarifying question. Had there been an emergency, this exchange may possibly have saved lives including my own. This is one of many reasons why I always shut the hell up and listen to any safety briefing, angered when my fellow passengers do not. It's reckless and dangerous to believe their mobile phones, distracting irrelevant yapping and packets of noisy crisps are more important than their lives & mine. It's also fiercely disrespectful towards the Cabin Crew who are trying to do their jobs and keep us all alive.
I, and I assume you, have the privilege of having traveled by plane so often as to consider it a privilege to do so. I can easily imagine that there are probably others who have traveled so often that the safety briefing is more of an annoying delay than important information, though chances are they have not flown as much as the flight attendant(s) giving the briefing 🥴
Well said. I completely agree that paying full attention during the safety briefing is the least passengers can do to show basic respect to the flight attendants as they're fulfilling their professional role of helping to keep us safe. Listening to that briefing is two minutes of your life that might help save your life. I sit in the emergency exit rows for the extra legroom whenever I can (I fly Southwest, so open seating), and I always make sure to read through the safety card and look at the door to make sure what type it is even though I've done those things tons of times before. If something happens, I want to make sure I know what I need to do.
@@Wolfeson28 Exactly. I fly far less often; my last flights were between UK and Spain a few years ago. Even if I were flying every week and even if it had become a mundane and tiresome ritual, I would still listen. There may be something different about this particular plane, some change in procedure, some random passenger with access requirements - anything - and if I just rhyme it in my head then I'm putting myself and others at risk. I'm not a nervous flyer at all. In fact I'm the opposite. I love the experience and find the traditionally "scary" phases of flight - takeoff, landing and turbulence - particularly interesting. I daresay even exhilarating. However my enthusiasm and avgeekiness will do nothing to save my life if it all goes south. So instead, I take the approach of wanting to enjoy and learn from the whole flight experience, yet continue to respect it. The plane is bigger and heavier than me, without a soft squishy interior. If we smash into one another, I'm pretty sure that I'll come off worse from the trade.
My daughter was on a SWA flight out of Love. The cabin attendant was trying to do the safety briefing, and most of the pax ,who had heard it a dozen times, were standing up, messing with stuff in the bins. She stopped, then yelled into the PA mic, " Sit down and shut up! We're here to save your a*s not to kiss it!"
Hi Petter, as someone with 35 years of broadcast TV experience, you and your team make 'absolutely fantastic' content with really high production values. Great; balanced, well researched, thoughtful, non sensationalised, factual and well presented scripts with excellent graphics and CG to back it up. It is really refreshing to watch and I always feel your intentions are to educate and improve safety. Thanks.
I have to agree 100% on this valuation. There is obvious vast amounts of time & effort involved in this incredibly informative video with every aspect clearly detailed so a non-aviation person can completely understand (even including footnotes to identify some terminology). My absolute favorite channel even over Mayday! Petter - thank you; every video is absolutely excellent!!!!
I started counting rows after this crash happened. Though later on I read about the Air Canada plane that landed on fire and that really sealed the deal.
I started counting and paid closer attention after my husband started working on his private pilot certificate. The more I knew the better passenger I was.
Well I kinda know them by heart but I pretend to listen intently out of politeness and I definetly make a note of the exits and any "obstacles". Plus I'm not too attached to life so I like to think I'd have the presence of mind to help people get out and "remind" people not to take anything along. Do something good before checking out. Of course if everyone's off I'd get out, I'm don't have a death wish, it would just solve a great deal of problems very conveniently and one last FU to the insurance that has to pay out so my folk can take it easy.
obviously like any job some people are more suited than others, but the important lesson is to structure the system such that a single mistake by one person can't on it's own cause something like this. Any system that requires human operatives to work all day, every day without making errors is doomed to fail.
I love how Petter drops little tid bits and hints as to what aircraft systems/details will be relevant in the story later on so we can be prepared and make educated guesses
I remember once I was sitting behind the exit row and this woman kept on not listening to the flight attendant doing the evacuation briefing for those seats, the flight attendant got her to swap seats with someone else after she kept on looking at her phone.
Yet, society allows car drivers to not care about traffic laws and nobody revokes their drivers license. As many have said "Flying is safer than driving a car". So, if that lady was forced to switch seats for not caring about flight safety instructions while seated in fire exit row on a plane, then a careless driver of a car should have to give up their license for not caring about many traffic laws with regards to - the proper use of turn signals, improper tailgating, unnecessary use of high beam lights, etc., since cars are obviously more dangerous than flying a plane as per statistics, but people just wanna pretend to care by removing that lady from fire exit row, but not care to cut off the legs of a bad car driver.
@@abhishekgarg5286 this video isn’t about car drivers. Plus it does force you to care, you give up your license for not following traffic rules where it can be enforced, plus fines are super expensive , with cameras and undercover cops everywhere checking. If you’re caught on your phone while driving it’s $500+ and pretty much half your points for losing license. (In Australia) Society doesn’t have enough infrastructure to kick everyone off the road for one mistake, so driving is critical for keeping the country running. I don’t drive or have a car but that’s my take.
Every time I board an aircraft, once I am seated comfortably, I take out the emergency instructions card and have a good look at it. If I'm sitting in an exit row, I'll have a look to ensure I know how the door works. While I hope to never need any of that information, it is better to have it refreshed properly than to not think and know about it but needing it.
Yeah, I always get an uneasy feeling when I look at the people in the exit row and they look completely incapable of managing stress or performing any demanding physical activity.
Thank you for doing this I am a now retired flight attendant, and as a result of this accident, flight attendants are required to ensure that everyone sitting at all exit rows are able and willing to open the exits in an emergency. If anyone says they do not want the responsibility or does not understand English well enough to understand instructions, they are reseated. Also, any children under age 15 are not allowed to sit in exit rows.
Last flight I was on, I ended up in the exit row, so checked the card to see a) how the door opened, and b) if any of the illustrations were funny. Flight attendant gave me a big thumbs up, lol.
I am a very tall guy, I prefer to be seated in an emergencyexitseat. I also watched 'Sully' and became interested in aviation about 4 years ago. I never skip a manual when I board a plane, and always watch the flightattendants' safety and emergencybriefing when they demonstrate. Your life may depend on it. I always figure out how to open the door after I read the manual in the seatpocket in front of me.
@@Niteowlette Two months ago, I was on a plane in Europe from Malaga (Spain) to Amsterdam. I was seated in the emergencyexitrow next to a young woman, who clearly spent more time on her looks then on safetyissues. When your colleague asked the standard question in English if we could perform our duties when necessary, I answered 'Of course' and the young woman said 'yes'. When I wanted to tell her something right before landing, I noticed that she didn't speak any English. Also, she failed after landing to assist a fellow passenger by retrieving his belongings from an overhead bin, I always do that for my fellow passenger. I practically scolded her after on walking through the gate after disembarking, but she didn't understand me anyway. How would you have handled this kind of situation?
I live near LAX clearly remember the *bang.* LAX now has a row of large lights on the taxiway: red = do not enter the runway; green = ok to enter. It also has a new tower and ground radar.
this is alot a kind of sistem the lax was ornganly used on usa naval aircraft carrers and a sci fi prof of conecpt in flight and space simlators in video games orginaly untill they got implented in real life.
Too bad they hadn't been fitted with the upgraded ground radar already. They had been asking for it for a long time. Also too bad that the lighting that was reported as blinding ATC was "fixed" while still blinding them. That aint no fix. 😕
These are some of the changes since 1991. LAX now prioritizes the use of the outboard runways (24R and 25L) for landings and the inboard runways (24L and 25R) for takeoffs, though mixed operations may occur in certain situations. Additionally, a new control tower was built at LAX, in a more central location, significantly taller and with a better vantage point, allowing visibility of all runways and critical taxiways at the airport. Before this accident, the FAA issued a ruling that required airlines to upgrade the flammability standards of materials on board, but the USAir plane had been built before the effective date of those requirements and had not yet been modernized. It was scheduled to be upgraded within the next year. By 2009, all aircraft operating in the United States were compliant. Air traffic controller Wascher, who bore the immediate responsibility for the crash, was adjudged to have made an error in adverse circumstances that any air traffic controller could have made and was not prosecuted or fired. She declined an offer to return to air traffic control and took a desk job at the FAA's western regional office.
My younger brother and sister knew the son of a couple who were passengers on that Sky West Metro aircraft. The son, who they knew in college, was suffering considerably due to the loss of his parents and as a result had lost direction in his life. A very sad story indeed.
One thing that adds to the sadness a little bit are the last words of the captain on the CVR of USAir Flight 1493 before it cut out... it was "What the Hell?!" - it shows just how little time they had between seeing SkyWest Airlines Flight 5569 and the crash.
As a Captain who has only operated in European airspace, it has always worried me, listening to many ATC communications in USA, that landing clearances are issued to approaching aircraft when the runway has not been confirmed as being clear of other traffic. DANGEROUS!
Unrelated to what happened in this video, but it does seem to be common in the US to issue a line up and wait and a landing clearance for the same runway, relying on being able to call up the landing aircraft in case of a delay with the departing one.
I used to operate into the US fairly regularly and this practice is still very common. I think I was once cleared to land as number 4 on approach, with multiple aircraft to cross the runway in between. I get that major US hubs are incredibly busy but it doesn’t strike me as very safe practice. As a side note, the quality of RT communication varies enormously from airport to airport, often as a function of how easy to understand the local accent is and how quickly people there tend to speak. MSP for example is pretty good. The constant use of phraseology which is not standard or even unknown for non-US pilots does my head in as well.
Last night I landed in NRT. We were told to continue starting at 9nm out while 3 departures took place. We were cleared to land on a 3nm final as an aircraft had just started their takeoff roll. It's not just in the US where this happens. A similar scenario happened to me at XMN last year. That time though, the aircraft taking off rejected forcing us to go around from about a 2nm final.
I am not a pilot. I am so happy that both ATC and pilots go through regular training. I remember the story of the Las Vegas controler who was working the night shift and had a stroke. She was the only controller on duty. The pilots remembered their training, called EMS, got everyone on the ground safely, and she recovered.
@@jooei2810Your 1st post was still right if no one is on par with Petter. Of course, if you seek below par, we're talking about a different set of balls.
@@MentourPilot Could you please consider doing a story on Yeti Airlines Flight 691? As many as 72 people lost their lifes. it's bizzar accident, but it has much deeper layers than even unthinkable pilots error. Yeti Airlines track records (regular crashes), amateur oversight from gov. officials (oversight body has executive and oversight functions - asked to split by EU, but not done. Some people would lose access to aorpirt contracts). The crash report was made public recently - and it ommits all the weird and amateurish mistakes made by oversight body, focusing solely on pilots. This is horrible stuffand different dimention to the regular stuff you have here.
Is it just me or do this accident Videos get better and better? Its truly amazing how well these accidents are covered, from all aspects and graphically superbly enhanced. A traffic accident but very well broken down to see how the Swiss cheese model came into play. Simply a professional work!!! Thank you!
I'm not an expert, but if it makes you feel any better there are many people that have been injured horrifically or even died and then came back and they've reported that there was no pain in those situations until later. So those people probably knew something bad had happened, but were not suffering.
In my higher-speed bike or water skiing accidents, everything slowed down, I watched the impact happen to me like behind a TV, and laid/floated dazed for a moment as I reoriented myself. It usually didn't hurt much until I was resting (and getting medical attention), an impact like that. The huge kinetic force involved (and mind you, this is me tumbling into grass or water at 17mph, not in a massive airplane chassis going hundreds of mph) stunned me too much for me to feel the pain for a significant amount of time. I guess your mileage may vary. But it's not even as bad as the pain of stubbing your toe, let alone something more serious, until you're on the mend.
Watched so many aviation tragedy videos...This one hits hard by far. No adverse weather conditions, no mistake of pilots, no malfunctioning of aircraft...just a plain oversight coupled with a lot of other relatively smaller lapses that led to a disaster of this stature.
Horrible crash! People tend to think ATC never makes mistakes which is obviously not true. I had ground giving me clearance to cross a runway while the stopbar lights remained red. Looking out the tow truck i could see an aircaft on final as well heard the clearance given to them because i was listening to both frequencies. Situational awareness is everything!
People often forget about the non-aircraft traffic moving around the airfield. I was pased to drive buses airside, though at a small airfield (UK) before the low cost aviation boom. You need eyes in all directions and ears on all frequencies. For part of our airfield, navigation around the apron was (for ground vehicles) entirely visual and only requiring ground contact for crossing taxiways. It's a very strange experience driving over a taxiway in a 30ft bus when you're surrounded by aircraft.
Fully agree, In my case it was a fully fueled A330 behind an under powered tow truck, so when clearance is given it takes a while to get going and actually cross a runway as well. All important factors, it's hard to be aware of everything around you, but critical as well. @@derektaylor2941
Between you and Juan Brown, I do learn a lot. These video presentations you make should be mandatory viewing for pilots, mechanics and controllers. Cheers from Winnipeg.
Now living within sight of LAX approach--can confirm that LAX no longer runs with all 4 runways used for both takeoff and landing. There's two lines of planes coming in, and two going out, and they're not lined up. I suppose if LAX ever got extremely busy they could go back to 4-at-a-time, but I don't think they will.
Yeah, this is correct. I can't speak for how things worked the past, or how they may work under weird/unusual circumstances; but at the present, under normal circumstances, they absolutely do split up the runways so that each one is used for either takeoffs OR landings. I live in the area, and I do some plane-watching every once in a while (that one spot by the In-N-Out, directly underneath the flights coming in for landing on 24R, is fantastic), and I've been interested enough in the past to have actually looked up what the different runway operation configurations are for the airport. So, as covered in the video, LAX's north complex has two parallel runways: 24L/06R (inner) and 24R/06L (outer). And the south complex also has two parallel runways: 25R/07L (inner) and 25L/07R (outer). Most of the time, the wind is blowing in from the west, from the ocean; which means there's a headwind (desirable) for the 24/25 (west) direction. And so, under Normal Operations, everything goes west: planes come in for arrival on 24R and 25L (the outer pair of runways), and planes set up for departure on 24L and 25R (the inner pair of runways). (And part of why they use the outer pair for arrivals, rather than the other way around, is because obviously whatever goes to or comes from those outer runways will need to cross the inner runways; and AFAIK it's a bit safer to have planes crossing after landing way down at the "far" end of the takeoff runway, than it is to have planes crossing as they get set up for takeoff up up at the "near" end of the landing runway. Or in any case, this is what I have read and been led to believe.) Anyway, on the rare occasions when the wind is going significantly in the other direction (e.g. when we have Santa Ana winds), you'll have headwinds for the 06/07 (east) direction; and so Eastward Operations just flips everything like a mirror, with arrivals on 06L and 07R (the outer pair) and departures on 06R and 07L (the inner pair). So still using the outer two runways for arrivals, and the inner two runways for departures, but just with everything moving east instead of west. (And obviously, all activity has to stop for a little while if the airport decides to flip directions.) There is also another configuration, which happens between 12:00am and 6:30am. During that time, LAX does Noise Abatement Operations, which is an attempt to keep things slightly quieter for nearby residents. They only use the inner pair of runways (to keep the noise slightly farther away from the edge of the airport); and, wind permitting, they do departures to the west but arrivals to the east (so that planes are mainly flying low out over the ocean to the west, and not over inland areas to the east). Arrivals use 06R, the east direction of the north inner runway, and departures use 25R, the west direction of the south inner runway. (And again, they might do other things in other, special circumstances; but this is how things run in normal situations.)
9:58 Excellent work for the pilots to confirm the changeover to 24-Left from Right. In many other videos on this channel, when something major like a runway change happens there is no confirmation at all. Just wanted to put out a kudos for them being extra safe at this point in the story.
Yeah, and this is not how LAX normally operates these days: two runways are for arrivals and two are for departures. Not sure why things were different back at the time of this incident.
After every close call on the news these days in our airports, I keep mentioning that we haven't fully learned from Tenerife. Not that this has much to do with Tenerife exactly but that we're not careful enough.
Close calls happen because airports and airlines are more concerned with affirmative action hires and paying as little as possible instead of hiring actually valuable and intelligent workers. This thought process is polluting every aspect of society and is why it is collapsing.
@@jeebusk to speed things up. Lined up aircraft can start the roll much quicker than aircraft that's holding on taxiway. So in this case, the ATC idea could have been to have the further aircraft cross runway while Skywest was taxing and then Skywest could start takeoff roll as soon as runway was clear and depart just in time for UsAir arrival.
Send them to get trained by Edelweiss 298 B. (RUclips: LOSS OF CONTROL ON TAKEOFF | Pilots Avoid an Accident at High Speed, VASAviation).[Not to be taken seriously]
It must be horrible for the tower person knowing this chain of events revolved around her. the airport not separating the landing and takeoff lane, the glare light making it hard to see the plane, the miss radio frequency on crossing plane, the regulation to not turn on lights on runway before actually taking off, the pilots not noticed the clearance strangeness, and ultimately her own major mistake for giving clearance. one mistake amplified by other factor is terrifying.
I can't imagine what it was like. She was cleared of guilt by the investigation, which concluded it was an error anyone might have made in the same circumstances, but she didn't return to controlling.
I’m not the most sympathetic person if I’m being honest, however I feel so bad for her. I do believe what happened could’ve happened to any controller. I’m really glad the NTSB put the emphasis on LAX’s deficiencies rather than simply blame the controller. Another reason why the NTSB are world class
I feel terrible for her too. Condolences for everyone's involved. It's an extremely stressful job that requires 100% concentration for hours but they get regular breaks if fully staffed. Unfortunately the US also has a shortage of controllers. I heard they are working extremely long hours with even less breaks due to the shortages. My friend's vacation request has been denied multiple times. They are to the point of burning out or just quitting. The scary thing is I had no idea it was that bad. You think the government would put more effort advertising this shortage to get new recruits.
Strobe should have been on as soon as it entered the runway, if it was cleared it should have been put on, if they weren't cleared they should not have been on the runway already, or did I miss something?
you know what i like about this channel, it not only gives the final report and facts but also gives a platform for the victims and people involved in an accident to come and speak about their experience. a very rare thing to see
These videos must take a tremendous amount of work. All the details, the graphics, showing the runway configurations, lights, instruments, going back and looking at the regulations, before and after and the attention to detail is TOP NOTCH. How do you find time to fly?
@@R_love45 I think it’s much more than that. He’s cutting in so many clips of cockpit instruments, backgrounds, map overlays etc. etc. too. I’ve done a tiny bit of video editing and all that stuff chews up hours and hours. I just want to acknowledge the hard efforts that go into such a smooth and polished final product. Mentour rocks!
such a sad plane crash but i hope that you are doing well, petter!! you have inspired me to want to become a pilot when i'm older so thank you so much!! -mati
Good luck! My friends son, George who is 17, has his private pilots licence (he actually got featured in a bunch of news articles for getting his licence that young!), has done his nighttime certification, and needs to do his medical (needs to travel from Scotland to England to do it, I believe London). I believe you’ll do amazing just like my friends son George who like you also watches Petter!! Good luck Mati, you’ll do absolutely amazing!
man...the similarity to the Naneda Airport runway collision on Jan 2, 2024. Even though they have different causes, but they got pretty much same outcomes. RIP to the people passed in both incidents.
This really highlights the importance of following evacuation procedures too. Everyone got out of the bigger plane in the recent collision because they focused on following evacuation procedures and getting out efficiently. Obviously the USAir cockpit was crushed so the captain's death was probably inevitable, but those people who weren't able to get out in time partially because of people fighting and freezing up and going back for luggage might've been able to get out if everyone had just focused on the task at hand.
I was just thinking that. Turboprop lined up for an intersection departure got clobbered by a landing jet. Part of the cause was different, but the smaller plane being invisible due to it's position and the lighting conditions was a common factor.
@@arlen2 I just checked for updates (from Wikipedia so take with a grain of salt but): "..Prior to the accident, air traffic controllers cleared the JAL aircraft to land on runway 34R,[93] while the Coast Guard aircraft was instructed to hold short of the runway at a holding point on taxiway C5.[66] NHK, however, citing a source within the Coast Guard, reported that the pilot of the Coast Guard plane claimed to have received clearance to take off.[29] Air traffic controllers later told MLIT officials that they had not noticed the Coast Guard plane moving onto the runway, adding that they were preoccupied with assisting other aircraft.[94] An MLIT official said that the pilot of the Coast Guard aircraft may not have heard the air traffic control tower authorizing the JAL aircraft for landing as at the time, his radio could have been set on the same frequency as that of ground control." So it's not quite the same, but if this is all true, it has a lot of similarities - an aircraft on the wrong frequency, controllers occupied with other aircraft missing the chance to stop the accident, etc. Obviously the direct fatal mistake seems like it was from the Coast Guard crew and not the ATC this time, but again - Swiss cheese model and all that. I heard they're investigating fatigue and such as well in the Coast Guard crew to see if that may have been a factor.
I worked ramp at an airport where an Ameriflight metroliner occasionally visited. One time, it had gearbox trouble, then brake issues, then more brake issues. Ameriflight had a technician out for all 3 weeks wrenching on it and we had to move it back and forth to keep it from clogging up the precious ramp space we had at our little regional. I have nothing against the plane itself, but man, some of them are in Dire need of replacement.
I have read many of the comments written about this presentation. I was surprised that several were from survivors or knew of survivors. God bless them all, and for mentor pilot explaining this tragedy as always in detail that even a novice can follow.
Imagine being that tower controller, she has to come to terms with making a mistake that killed all those people. Of course it wasn’t just her fault, it was a wider structural failure and poor decisions by managers. Still though, that must be so tough for her. RIP to all those who perished.
Last week Weds I took the RYANAIR flight ARN to STN and I was sat in exit door row 16. The air hostess came to tell us 12 about the responsibility of the exit doors. She was somehow timid or new and spoke "pip-pip-pippity-peep" . No one heard her although I saw her mouth moving, I bent forward to try to hear her. No-one was paying her attention, and having said her "piece" in approx 5 sentences she turned and disappeared. The person doing that needs better training to say it LOUD and make sure that the 12 have heard and understand the full requirement !
I feel the same. With such situations, how human mind works it can become ones worst enemy for the rest of the life. There is no shelter from such a beast.
@@panosdotnetit can be hard to do, but it is almost always better (in terms of improving behaviour) to show empathy and be non-confrontational because of how our brains work. This is another reason ‘just culture’ is so important in safety-critical industries. A more detailed explanation (I do a lot of - non-safety critical - change management as part of my work but I’m not a psychologist, so bear that in mind): our brains filter out most information we receive so they can cope with the world, and one of the criteria used for higher-level filtering is whether the source is considered ‘in-group’ or ‘out-group’. If you’re considered ‘out-group’, anything you say is more likely to be discarded unconsciously or weighted lower (this comes from our pre-history as tribal primates). Lack of empathy or aggression towards a person they consider ‘in-group’ (such as someone doing the same job as them) flag you as ‘out-group’. If you want to improve how controllers behave, you can get much better retention and internalisation through showing empathy *especially* when it goes against our retributive justice cognitive bias.
I worked in a very old library and came across an original B-17 manual and this reminded me that it warned about the fire suppression system when it comes into contact with fire it creates a poison gas and to take appropriate precautions.
This video coming out around the Haneda airport runway collision in Japan is simply tragic. 33 years later, with all the technological developments, and the human being remains as the weakest link😢
As tragic as Haneda is, it could have been a whole lot worse. Nobody on the commercial jet died, and that's probably in large part because they didn't land and then ram the other plane so much as they landed on top of it.
Great coverage as usual Petter. (Sad- and really bizarre that people unbuckled belts before the aircraft stopped moving. I had not known this previously.) I landed a 767 there a month or so after the accident, and the captain and I had nearly three hours to kill before flying up to SFO, and during that time we managed to organise a tower visit. During that visit we discussed the awful accident at length with the ATC guys, who were still even then in a bit of shock over the tragic events of this night.
@28:00 Former USN and FAA controller here... "Line up and wait" was ICAO only until 2009 or 2010. The FAA's phraseology was "taxi into position and hold" prior to that. So it wasn't ambiguous or non-standard phraseology, it was documented and *THE* phraseology for US controllers. Any US controllers that said "Line up and wait" prior to the FAA's implementation would have been using incorrect phraseology.
It was standard in Canada too. Our phraseology was changed to "Line up and Wait", because "Position and Hold" could be confused to "Position and ROLL". I intensely dislike multiple landing clearances, simply because using them does not give full attention to each landing situation.
This is such a similar event to the recent runway crash at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport one month ago in January of 2024, where an Airbus A350 ran over the top of a Canadian Coast Guard De Havilland Dash 8 that had taxied in front of the landing A350. The only difference is that the Dash 8 presumably had all of its beacon lights lit and strobing, yet was still unnoticed by the A350 on that dark night.
The tragedy at Haneda was that the coast guard pilot never had clearance to actually enter the runway. That accident was on him alone. It is also possible that the A350 pilots never saw him due to the angle of their landing flare out.
It's always easy for people to say "surely you could've seen something if you paid enough attention", and just like the incident towards the end of last year in Japan, that's very easy to say when pilots are not expecting an aircraft to be on the runway. It's easier to spot something when you know it's there ahead of time. Pilots don't expect an aircraft to be on their runway they have been approved for. That doesn't mean they always assume there isn't any threat or issues on the runway, nor aren't checking, but in this case people arguing that if they looked hard enough and focused they would've seen something small is silly. You can see that because you know what you're looking before ahead of time, pilots don't stare at the same part of a runway for a minute straight looking for flashing lights of a potential aircraft. Fantastic video as always Petter and team. I hope you and the family are well also Petter, need a catch up soon!
I really hope the ATC operator was okay, so many factors outside of her control led to this accident. Human error was obviously involved but not entirely on her end
I hope so too. She was new at her job, it was a guy who didn't do his job and forgot to report over to her (which is just a human error as well which normally would likely not have disasterous consequences). And then there was this stress. Dark night. Unlucky circumstances. And much bad luck.
I was a pilot for SkyWest on the metroliner hired a year or so after this accident. Still remember taxiing into position on a 45° angle as a precaution.
@@barrysilverman8865 Tcas would have a field day if used in landing or take off as there are a lot of planes which would be in the vicinity , 8km in the air and 8km in the ground are two different emergency scenarios . I think they now have a system already which is similar to ground radar which shows flights on a map of the airport and where their actual positioning in busy airports
WOW! This accident made me feel the most angst and sorrow about any accident report I've ever seen. The crew & passengers in the Skywest flight were completely innocent -- none of its crew made any mistake (they followed all of the rules in place then) -- but they died horrifically. Still, thank you to Petter for dedicating so much time informing us all. Great content.
Im not sure they are completely innocent because in the Swiss Cheese model even small things can prevent an accident. As they were sat on the runway the level of awareness would need to be high and a communication to the tower asking asking for take off clearance may have helped or hearing the USAir landing clearance. Small things yes but ultimately, sadly, fatal.
They're sitting on an active runway, waiting for TO clearance They should be monitoring the frequency They should hear another aircraft being cleared to land They don't speak up
@@Wannes_ Yep there was a near miss with Air Canada and others where monitoring and heightened level of awareness prevented disasters. As mentioned in the video the last level of safety is down to the pilots watching out and listening
Watch the episode where the pilot let his two teenage kids fly the plane. The teenage son was being a typical jerkoff teen boy, wasn’t happy just going along with the auto pilot, so did a more extreme turn, which set off a series of events that led to it crashing and killing everyone on board a huge Russian commercial jet. It’s the most unnecessary & disastrous crash that I’ve seen him cover. The other infuriating one is the two young pilots treating the jet like a performance racecar needlessly and crashing it. At least the second one didn’t have passengers, but all the crew died on impact.
@@emilycarter2492 That's not how it went down. The kid *didn't know* that the autopilot was on. His dad the pilot led him to believe that he was in full control of the plane and he (obviously not being trained) tilted the controls enough to AUTOMATICALLY and _subtly_ disengage the autopilot. His father wasn't even in the copilot seat and the kid wouldn't have known what to look for even if that concern was put into his mind. If his father didn't know that's how that worked despite his training, how would he??? He was a kid being a kid.
You have the only channel where I don't fast forward the adds because I know it benefits you. That says alot about your content! Thank you, love the videos!!!
The number of these videos where at least one of the causes was "people not using calls correctly/clearly enough" is honestly really upsetting. That seems like it would be one of the easier things to do and yet I keep seeing stories where it doesn't happen.
Scarily this accident was repeated recently in Japan - an airliner landing on top of a small turboprop that was holding on the runway in the touchdown zone.
I would disagree to the repeated part in your statement as the turboprop in this accident had been cleared onto the runway but the recent accident in japan the turbo prop had not. The result is very similar but the cause is very different
That's because planes are allowed to wait on active runways. This is analogous to cars stopping at red lights in the middle of interactions. How stupid would this be. Now I don't understand why planes can sit and wait on an active runways (like cars in the middle of intersections on red light). If every plane wait on taxiways, mistakes like these would not have resulted in fatal collisions.
@@yummysatay I think it's not like they normally wait on a runway which is used by someone else for landing or take off. It's more that they wait for someone to cross or for a wake turbulence to wear off. Both accidents - this one and the one at Haneda in Japan happened, because someone made big mistakes. With proper ground radar, those accidents never would have happened.
Petter, incredibly well researched & thought out production. I am really happy you are still enjoying FR/738 / 8Max, & it frustrates me to be unable to recall if we met before I departed GRO base in 2008 , maybe you recall ? Again, your videos are truly excellent , I have yet to find any inaccuracy or cringeworthy statement in any of them, & I have watched I believe pretty much all. Great job, & viewing them should be Mandatory for any pilot training school , Really ! ! ! ( " learn from others mistakes , you won't live long enough to make them all yourself"
Hey! Likely not since I came to GRO in 2013 but we might have met somewhere else. Thanks for your lovely comments, I aim to be as little cringeworthy as possible 😂
It's so nice to watch your videos and the way you tell the story is amazing. You first let us learn about everything that will have a role in the accident: the metroliner lights, the airline procedure with the strobes, the inflammable materials and oxygen tank of the 737, the weaknesses of the ATC, the lack of a ground radar... all in a slow and understandable way. And then suddenly all those things make the disaster possible. The pace of the story gets faster, as it happened in a matter of seconds. Thanks for sharing this and keep up the excellent work.
You are using these for education purposes and allow students to research information while the video is playing, these are top quality educational videos!
I do not have an iPad so I am unable to test this, but have you tried using a web browser, such as Safari, to access RUclips instead of using the RUclips app? Maybe Safari will allow you to play a RUclips video in a separate window or in the background when the RUclips app will prohibit this function.
I understand why you have to pay for removing ads on youtube ,but paying for multitasking feature is a rip off it might even be scam .it is so annoying for content that mostly focused on audio like music and podcast
Hi Petter, could u maybe look into doing a video on flight LY-1862. My dad has seen this accident happening and it is the biggest and most controversial accident in the Netherlands. Till this day, there still is discussion about it and it is very misunderstood so I thought it would be cool if you could cover it! Furthermore thanks for the amazing content, big fan!
Thanks for making the weekend great. Your videos comes to me as a stressbuster and it is way more better option to see your videos other than seing reels
An excellent presentation, as always - many thanks, Petter. Another "swiss cheese" of factors 😢. A couple of questions immediately came to mind, please. You mentioned that when air traffic control fails, the last remaining safety barrier becomes the pilots on that same frequency. There's clear explanation of how the pilots on Skywest 5569 and US1493 did not detect the conflict. But what about the pilot and co-pilot on SW 725? They should not have too been busy, and this was all happening on 24L, where they were next in the queue for take off. They had heard 5569 receive clearance to line up on the runway 24L at 45. Then they had received their clearance to taxi and await take-off clearance in sequence, right after 5569, on 24L. They were likely not too busy and eager to take off, so should have had plenty of situational awareness. Then the controller called them again to confirm they were holding which they did, and immediately after that she cleared US 1493 to land on 24L. They must have been interviewed in the investigation. How could they have missed the impending disaster, and not raised the alarm? Second one is, stepping back from this controller overload, did the investigation recommend LAX change to assigning individual runways for take-off or landing only for long periods of time to simplify ground operations? And having a well-trained switch over procedure to use when needed. Having a system of minute by minute interlacing of take-offs and landings on four runways at a very busy airport seems to make an accident like this much more likely. Thanks again for all the great ways you keep us armchair pilots so closely engaged!
I saw in the NTSB recommendations to also seperate lamding and takeoff runways. Now in LAX, the inboard runways, closer to the gates are for takeoff, while the outboard runways are only for landings. That definitely also makes things safer, im surprised to hear that wasnt always the case, especially for as busy an airport LAX was and still is.
Thank you so much for the fantastic video Petter, great job as always. Would you perhaps consider covering the Adria Airways crash in Corsica? It was a crash that significantly influenced the development of pilot-traffic control communication standards.
@@57JimmyGood channel but nowhere even close to the same league as Mentour Pilot. No other channel is on this level, not even Wonder showing episodes of Mayday, because those shows were geared towards general audiences and therefore heavy on human interest, light on technicals.
When I heard about the Haneda Airport runway collision a month ago, this was the first disaster that popped into my mind. I was thinking to myself, it's LA all over again! Different set of circumstances that lead to the accidents, but the net result was the same: Smaller aircraft on the runway at night is completely invisible to the larger landing aircraft until it is too late.
This is a fantastic channel, I love the insight into the complex ballet that is flying a plane safely and the incredible amount of processes and data points that have to come together for it to work, and what happens when they don't.
I live on the coast in the middle of the African continent and you are fortunate that you are able to drive. My three sons live in Sydney, Dubai and Canterbury, Kent and my sister and her daughters live somewhere north of UK. I have no choice but to fly. Thank you to Mentour presenter who delivers these videos. You are excellent in this delivery.
Thanks for the amazing video! 😍 I love your content and over these past few months, the editing and all have been so on point. Keep up with the great work!🎉
As someone who isn't a pilot or ATC I would assume that lights which blocked the view of the runways, even partially, would be ground for stopping traffic operating on those runways at the very minimum. It's such a clear and obvious safety issue its hard to believe they chose to keep using that runway. And its not like there aren't a hundred different temporary solutions which could have prevented this accident, including just turning off that set of lights until they could be fixed.
34:07 This is a warning for people who unbuckles their belt and stands up getting their overhead luggage at the moment the airplane touches the ground.
The collision that occurred in Japan on January 2nd, 2024, involving an Airbus A350 and a DHC Dash 8 is almost "a recreation" of this accident. Nothing was learned.
It was an unauthorized runway incursion by the Coast Guard plane, which the Haneda Tower failed to notice, as well as the landing JAL A350 pilots. The Coast Guard plane was told by Tower they were Number #1, but waited for take-off clearance at the wrong location (i.e. on the runway) for 70 seconds. It's a collision but circumstances are somewhat different. It was during the News Years Holidays, so it's possible that ATC was overwhelmed. Coast Guard read back of instructions was correct. JAL's superb training of flight attendants saved all the passengers. Reportedly, the intracom was destroyed by the fire so coordination wasn't easy. Actually, JAL has never forgotten or forgave Boeing after JAL123.
Well done, Petter and team! I'm was so glad that you kind of recreated how the Skywest would have looked from the descending Boeing. That is, like not much at all, basically invisible. That was my big question "Don't these pilots use their regular eyeballs ever?", but you clearly showed that the Skywest would have been basically invisible. Aces!
I remember old air disaster movies where terrified passengers shake chairs for half an hour with lack of technical information. Being a nurse I enjoy all your videos. Thank you
Sorry for your loss, can't grasp how you guys have the guts to work in a job where one bad day (which we all have) can lead to 100's killed!!! You guys have my respect!
Love your videos! Sometimes it's the little things I find most fascinating. Like tasking air crews to NOT line up on the centerline to improve visibility.
Would you seem yourself in a Delta Boeing 737 MAX 8 have the same situation as Lion Air but then the plane crash against a hill in Colombia, then the president of Colombia bans Boeing planes and certain airlines from Colombia switch their Boeing fleet to Airbus and Petro criticize the FAA and allow COMAC to enter Colombia with Avianca using their first COMAC C-919. What will happen to you if you die in a Boeing MAX?
Peter, now that ur this big it might become time to interview some of the survivors, investigators ect. There are already a few in ur comments and it would add a whole new deep dimension
This would have a high risk of turning this beautiful, educational channel into a mess of drama. There's already the interview to Captain Dardano of flight Taca 110 if you haven't seen it.
I like the factual /technical interpretation of events thar Petter does. Doing interviews would be more like the disaster TV shows (less factual, or longer)
The midair collision with a fighter jet (Hughes air west 706) seems like a good event for this channel. It’s what largely changed the reliance of “see and avoid” with commercial air craft.
This report hits close to home for me. On the night of February 27, 1995, I was a captain for Lone Star Airlines and was catching a ride home from DFW to Hot Springs, Arkansas on one of our company Metoroliners. The captain of the metro had been my first officer in the past, and both crew members up front were very competent pilots. We were in position and holding on runway 35R (the current 35R at DFW didn’t exist then, the runway we were on is now 35C) when I noticed everything outside my window getting bright. I ducked down into the isle just as an MD-11 went over the top of us and touched down in front of us. I got to talk to the captain when we landed in Hot Springs and he was still awfully shaken up over it, he went inside of our station there in Hot Springs and called our director of operations who in turned called our Principle Operations Inspector with the FAA. I later learned that the captain of the MD-11 had no idea he had over flown us until his chief pilot called him the next morning. In all my years of operating out of DFW, this was the only time I can remember the controllers telling us to back taxi to the end of the runway before going into position and holding, we usually left from the intersection about a thousand feet up the runway, often having to hold in position there at the intersection. That is the reason why now when I have to back taxi on a runway, I never taxi on the centerline of the runway and will always hold in position off of the centerline a bit, especially at night.
@@bwtawny The captain told me that when it happened, the tower frequency went quiet for a moment, then a different controller’s voice came on and said “Lone Star, are you guys okay out there? They answered affirmative. And the controller said “still want to go?” To which they also replied affirmative, and we were promptly cleared for takeoff. Even from the very back of the airplane, I could tell that the after takeoff checks were….rough….but the crew got us safely to Hot Springs. Like I said previously, they were shaken up, but also a very competent crew. They both continued flying and became captains for major airlines here in the USA, and to the best of my knowledge, they are both still flying. Also I heard, but can’t confirm that the tower initially logged it as an “operational anomaly” until…the caca hit the proverbial fan…then it was changed to a near miss. The NTSB determined that the center main gear of the MD-11 missed the tail of our Metroliner by les than 35 feet. CNN actually interviewed our captain, and I had my VCR (dating myself there) set to record the interview, but the day it was supposed to air, was also the day of the Oklahoma City bombing, so needless to say, it was preempted.
This makes me think of Air Canada 759 and how even though that didn't end in disaster, it came so close to it. And that was in 2017, over 25 years later with much better tech. I can only wonder what would've happened if the Philippines Airlines pilot hadn't had the ingenuity and quick reflexes to turn on his landing lights to help with visibility. Something like this with 5 massive passenger planes, 4 of which are full of fuel for an upcoming flight... it's just horrific to imagine. This is maybe a stupid question but is there a reason we don't have some kind of high-vis paint that can go on planes to make them more visible at night?
Great video once again! I would have never guessed that perfectly lining up on the runway would be a bad thing but this video clearly explains the risks.
Yes, I could imagine feeling smug that I'm lined up perfectly! Now passengers are probably thinking "lazy pilot hasn't bothered to line up properly" :-)
This is a crash that I’ve studied prior - always trying to know what’s happened historically to try and avoid being a statistic. I really enjoy and appreciate the way that you tell the stories. Thank you for all of the work and effort that you do to accurately portray the events and tell a story and give a lesson. You have such a great skill. Please keep it going.
Superb presentation, Petter! Excellent writing, and narration. I also thank the many astute commenters below for adding their knowledge and experience for us to better understand the event.
I just landed at LAX last week. Mid landing, during the hard braking, we suddenly swerved and we were now on the parallel runway. I don’t think that was planned and the attendants were also a bit wide eyed. Anyway, all safe but very odd.
My guess is they took an early “high speed taxiway” (hence the hard braking) and were immediately cleared to cross the inner runway. You couldn’t just “swerve” to a different runway while on the landing rollout without crashing.
@@nathanmcguire932 this makes me feel better, thanks so much. After this video I started thinking about what we were avoiding on the runway as I’ve never been in a landing where we turned lol. Thanks again😊
Surely they can create a radar system just along the runway, separate to all other systems, and if it detects something is on the runway as an aircraft is within 0.5 miles approach of the runway it turns the threshold bar red which would be an instant go around. Using computers you can define the runway area to prevent erroneous triggers by aircraft at the side of the runway etc. Would have helped in both this and the recent Japan incident
You can't change the color of the threshold lights. They must emit green light away from the runway and red light toward it. Besides, some approach light systems incorporate red lights. A string of red threshold lights would be confusing and, possibly, not noticed due to the red terminating bar of an ALSF-1 approach light system. Some airports have runway status light (RWSL) systems. These are fully automated and are not dependent on ATC, although the controllers can adjust their brightness and turn them off, if necessary. RWSL is mostly used to warn aircraft and vehicles operating on the ground of when it would be unsafe to enter, cross, or take off from a runway. It also warns landing aircraft of unsafe conditions by flashing the PAPI lights.
This system exists today (ASDE-3/AMASS) - it doesn't modify the lights, but it will alert the ATC for potential threats. But remember, this accident happened in 1991.
This accident seems to be January 2, 2024, Japan Airlines (JAL) flight 516 collided with a coastguard plane at Tokyo's Haneda airport. Oh God. Goosebumps. So so so horrific. Thanks Petter.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
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@MentourPilot Thank you so much for the fantastic video Petter, great job as always. Would you perhaps consider covering the Adria Airways crash in Corsica? It was a crash that significantly influenced the development of pilot-traffic control communication standards.
@MentourPilot Can someone with a mental condition which is controlled by medicine and its under control can someone like me can land a plane if i was the only one left if worse came to worse if i was on an airplane i saw that video of ordinary people can land a plane?
@@JASONCIRONE-kp4xr He made a video on his other channel explaining clearly that for an amateur to land a commercial plane (it doesn't matter what kind of amateur, mental condition or not) the conditions would have to be near perfect and you would have to have loads of time and clear communication with someone on the ground to lead you. Such a scenario is not just unlikely, but completely unrealistic. In short: You would almost certainly crash the plane, like the rest of us who never piloted anything.
@@thayrathyn i kind of of figure i would because i am not very good at taking in hard instructions like that it be to overwhelming i would crash the plane
@@JASONCIRONE-kp4xr I gathered that it might be possible for someone with a good mind for detail, and who knows a few other things like radio communication conventions, to put the craft into autoland mode and then steer the craft to a stop. Without that, there'd be no sense for how the craft will behave. This also depends on not being shut out of the cockpit.
Yes, I was on this flight in Row 11. My son shared this video with me today. It's been 33 years this week since this horrible tragedy occurred. The details in this video are very insightful and as a survivor, still hard to watch. I remember the flight attendants did tell us to get into a "crash" position (head between our knees) as soon as we hit the other plane. We had touched down and as our nose was going down, we hit the commuter flight waiting to take-off. I knew we had hit something, the pilot hit the brakes hard, and the plane immediately burst into flames as it bumped forward. I could tell we were on grass at one point. My seat unhinged and was on top of me. My seat mate whom I was talking with most of the flight, lifted it off of me. He ended up being one of the two men trying to open the Left Wing exit door. The woman in that seat was frozen in fear, and they were struggling, not fighting (as some later reported) to open it. That wing was on fire, so he was badly burned upon exiting and rolling off of the wing. It is a true miracle that no other passengers went out of that exit where there was a great deal of flames. A blessing actually. It was chaotic inside, dark, and smokey. We had only minutes to get out. I climbed over the seats to find the wing exit. I was the last one to exit on the Right wing. I remember looking back and only seeing smoke billowing out of the exit door behind me. Most of the passengers went to the back to try and exit. Since we were positioned on top of another plane, we were higher from the ground. I looked for a slide or ladder or anything from the wing to the ground, but there was none so I decided to jump out of fear that the plane would blow up. I shattered both of my feet on impact, but didn't know it until I made it to triage. When we hit the abandoned fire station, we had just barely missed the Pan Am International glass terminal full of hundreds of passengers. Some of our passengers were banging on the doors to get in, but couldn't. I remember the faces of the people inside who couldn't help us. Later, we were told that at first thought, it may have been a potential terrorist attack. They didn't know that another plane was involved until they found a propeller. It was awful and I'm so incredibly sad for those that were lost that night. Everyone on the USAir flight survived the impact except for our brave pilot. Those that lost their lives just couldn't get out or never unbuckled their seat belts out of shear fear. Sadly, we hear about close call runway incursions too frequently, and a few years after this fatal crash, I was in another runway incursion at LAX, but our pilot had time to abort the landing and took off again over the ocean just in time to avoid it. God Bless you all and those that were affected by this sad tragedy.
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm glad you survived and helped us all learn something and maybe prevent future accidents or save some lives..
Thanks for sharing and may God help you...
Bless you. So glad you are safe.
Wow, that was hard to read. I’m sure even harder to write. Thank you for sharing, you are amazing and I love you ❤
Oh my goodness you were almost in 2 runway collisions? That's sodcary I'm so happy that you made it out
My mom survived this crash. She was in row 11 and crawled over rows of seats to get to the right wing exit because the aisle was jammed. She jumped from the tip and broke both feet when she hit the ground but got up and ran from the fire. Her recount of the ordeal is literal nightmare fuel, it’s a miracle she survived. Thank you for making this video, I’ll be showing it to her today and can’t tell you how much it will mean to her. She’s not a fan of the “Mayday”/“Air Disasters” dramatization of it so it’ll be her first time hearing some of these details and getting answers to some questions. Thank you again
Edit: sent her the video, she hasn’t watched yet but when I mentioned the detail about the guys fighting at the door she said one of them had been sitting next to her and talking with her for hours before the crash. He was a retired LA police officer and they still keep in touch. She says the “fighting” wasn’t really a fight and didn’t slow evacuation, it was about opening a door that led to the worst of the fire. The people who ended up using it were burned severely if they even made it out
I’ll follow up with any details she shares after she watches
Edit 2: “I watched it. He did a good job. He didn’t mention that the flight attendents were screaming, “everyone get in a crash position. Head between your knees!”. So that baffles me that people still unbuckled too early. Some never unbuckled and succumbed to the smoke. Lots of people came out with their carryon or purses. Dumb asses”
Edit 3: Yes my badass mom is ShelleyH727
Hooooooooly sh't! Blimey. 😳😯😐👍 Pity she hadn't had any parachute training, land slightly sideways, knees both bent, and roll around and over along back. 👍😐
@huwzebediahthomas9193 Isn't it diagonally across your back so as not to damage your spine?
David Koch (of Koch Industries) was also a passenger on this plane. Apparently his near-death experience inspired his large amount of philanthropic and charitable donations.
@stephenj4937 yeah let's maybe not talk about a guy who was listed as an associate to Jeffery Epstein by the FBI, like he was "Kind of a good guy"
I'm sure his charitable donations were nothing more than tax breaks and a cover for his paedophilia
@@stephenj4937 A Koch being a philanthropist. Lol. Fnck right off.
The captain on the metro was Andrew Lucas, he was my friend we learned to fly together. He was a force and guidance in my early flying life. Had it not been for his help and support I would not be an airline pilot. He is in Gods memory… rest in peace my friend and mentor.
I recently retired from SkyWest after 35 years and also flew with Andy. He was a great guy with a dry but great sense of humor. I am greatful to have flown with him and also apprtiate his mentorship. Rest in peace Andy.
@@darrellcook7790 Thanks Darrell for a respectful comment as we commiserate together. I get teary- eyed as I think of him. He saved me, I wish I could have done the same for him. He is missed, but we will see him again!
Ignore the troll, just report them
Shout out to that BAMF firefighter who saved the first officer. The kind of spine it takes to look at an inferno and decide to climb into it and give someone a chance to live is legendary!
Agreed, 100%!
I was extremely surprised to hear that the First Officer survived -- I was sure it was guaranteed death being at the epicentre of the fire and smoke. First responders are the epitome of human greatness, and they have my eternal gratitude.
I'll simply say, pure balls of diamond. Did what was needed when stainless steel wouldn't suffice.
@@RavenMobilefirst officer, not co pilot…
Risk alot to save alot
@@SamFarley098 Thanks, still learning the lingo.
What's the difference between a Co-Pilot and First Officer?
I was a air traffic controller at Los Angeles Air Route Traffic Control Center when this happened. One of my close colleagues, who was on my team, died on SKW Sky West. He was in his early 30s, married and a father of two very young children. His name is Scott Gillham. He was a good controller and a very nice guy. I had just ate lunch across from him a few days before this accident at our facility’s cafeteria. His funeral was packed with controllers and very emotional. It hit us hard.
The tower controller was relocated to LAS Tower in an administrative job. She never controlled again. Her over the shoulder review that you mention, from my experience working 25 yrs controlling at both the Center and later LAX radar approach, was not a good review to have that many mistakes. Typically one might have 1 or 2 phraseology mistakes and nothing more. I retired from So Cal TRACON as a supervisor and if that was my employee, I would have utilized remedial training. Sad situation for both crew, passengers, and air traffic controllers,
Was she the only woman traffic controller on duty when this incident took place?
Failing upward. Unfortunately I've seen this many times with co-workers. The better you are at your job, the more likely you'll be kept in that job.
sorry for this error
@@mediocreman2 Its called the Peter principle where you are promoted until you do not show competency in the role you are promoted to. Its very very common to be good at a job get recognized for it, get promoted and then end up as out of your depth but no way to go back top your previous role.
@@therasco400 Another way to say it is "Shite raises to the top." My dad taught me that. He was a mortality insurance underwriter
Petter, as a member of the accident investigation team on this one, I would like to commend you for an excellent visual and oral presentation of 1493's demise. There are, as in all such situations, many side stories, some often better untold. This accident was a very "hot potato" for the FAA brass and more than once the NTSB IIC had to step in and restrict access to some of them. FYI-The "unused fire department building" that the wreckage collided with, had been constructed as a emergency fall back building to withstand an Atomic bomb attack on LA. Hence, it was close to an immovable object. The windows of the building were ,as I remember, at least 3" thick and withstood the impact of the two aircraft. Keep up the good work, my friend.
Sorry, what was the immovable object it was close to, and do you mean the planes crashed into this object or into the building as per what Petter said?
@@bordershader "close to" means "almost" in this context
okay bud
So interesting, we have an investigator, a relative of a survivor and a relative of a victim here
@@scose great! Thank you, I understand now.
I used to work in medical regulation, and I love these videos so much. Honestly, medical regulators could learn so much from the aviation industry. The way regulators respond when things go wrong - without pinning everything on one individual and always assessing systemic issues - is truly something the medical industry should be doing. There's so much good practice to learn from!
Yep, I love that part of the industry as well.
Agree. If only Britain's NHS followed aviation regulations we would have a far higher standard of care. Amazing videos. I am addicted!
Sadly, no. the Institute of Medicine proposed an aviation model in 2001. The implementation was awful.
especially when doctors are in the top 5 causes for death.
Until DEI ruins it
Petter, the fact that so many of the actual people involved in these incidents respect you and feel safe to comment is a testament to your professionalism. Thanks.
Petter’s respectful and thoughtful approach to his videos are a huge reason why I watch this channel. It breaks my heart when creators sensationalize horrible incidents like this. One of my friends lost her father in the American Eagle 4184 crash (Chloe Howie at Disaster Breakdown has a video on it although I’d love to see Petter do one as well) and I always think of how she would feel if she was to see a video that was insensitive to the victims.
@@courtneymayfield3380 It’s even more callous, IMO, when people program AI to find and make those videos.
I know the child of one of the women who survived this crash posted that the fighting at the emergency exit wasn't really fighting per say, but it makes me think of the stories I have heard of plane crashes where ppl were fighting each other to get out. It's very sad but ppl will do anything when their life is on the line that they wouldn't normally do.
Talking about this topic, I can give a little piece of advice to anyone who may need to help save someone who is drowning one day. As a lifeguard for many years, we are taught to swim up behind the victim. This is so the person can't grab onto you and pull you under in their panic. When you get behind them, take your non dominant arm and put it underneath their same arm (so if you're using your left arm put it under their left arm). As you do this place your arm diagonally up across their chest, with your hand then coming up to cup the side of their neck. Ppl drowning are thrashing and cupping your hand around their neck gives you a way to push their head back away from yours. Lifeguards have been knocked unconscious by thrashing victims slamming their heads into the lifeguard's. This keeps your dominant arm free to help you swim with the victim back to safety. Sorry for the long post but you never know if you might need this knowledge one day.
Look how smoothly and without incident the passengers at Haneda exited the aircraft recently. It says something about the cultural differences of how people react in an emergency or life threatening situation
very cool stuff about drowning - very clearly written and explained why. Thanks!
@@markjohnson182 well, I don't know the details, but I would be careful not to draw so much conclusion from cultural differences. Yes, it's highly organized society, but I would rather talk about anti-earthquake and tsunami drills than culture. So conditioning you could train everwhere in the world, regardless the culture, with regular drills. (btw. spent sometime in Japan and this is why I am skeptical when hearing explanations putting all on culture. Most of the time is too easy explanation and has more to do with stereotypes).
@foxracing8973: I've also read that it's better to push a floatation device to a victim at least an arm's length away so the person can't grab onto you and drown you.
@markjohnson182: The circumstances of each accident differ.
Accounts by survivors of the Haneda crash say that, after the plane stopped moving, the flight attendants waited minutes to decide on evacuation. The fuselage wasn't on fire at the time, although an engine was, due to the impact with the Coast Guard plane. Many passengers were screaming to evacuate, but the FAs shouted above the loud noises to wait for a decision, which came later. They repeatedly reminded folks to leave behind their baggage. The captain was the last person to evacuate after going up and down the aisles to verify that everyone got off the plane; this was 8 to 11 minutes after impact (accounts vary). Thus, the fire that later consumed the plane hadn't reached a critical point to kill anyone at the time.
In the incident in this video, it was more critical to evacuate ASAP. Unfortunately, one of the exits that was opened led people directly into the raging fuel-fed fire. If the person who opened the door had followed proper procedures, he would've checked to see if outside conditions made it safe to do so. [The safety placards I've seen have icons that warn of dangers, such as fire, wreckage, etc.]
I'm a retired flight attendant who was based at LAX, and this is an excellent and detailed account of what happened. Thank you for covering this very tragic crash.
I always inform a flight attendant if I see anyone unfit to be in the exit row: too young/frail, non-English speaker, drunk, took a sleeping pill, etc. I once was seated behind an exit row, with a foreign family in front of me; only the dad spoke English. I flagged the FA, and she swapped our rows; as no good deed goes unpunished, the kid kicked my seat back a few times during the trip. On another flight, I saw a couple put their coats, bags, and hat in the overhead bins where an AED device and oxygen generators are stowed; they did that after a FA told them to leave those bins clear and walked away to monitor others. They closed the covers to hide what they did. I got up to wash my hands, and told the aft FA, so she could act like she saw what they did and lecture them. [The ironic thing is the FAs later put 2 packs of Dixie cups there, and used those cups during water service. Hah!]
Anyway, I prefer window seats for the views, space, and peace from no traffic brushing by me. I always jump at the chance to get one in the exit row. I've gotten it many times, likely over 25% of all my 250+ flight segments, and 10 of my last 12. I always read the safety placard, study how to open the exit door, figure a good way to discard or stow any detached parts (handle cover, door) to not obstruct others, and count the number of rows to the next nearest exit. I keep myself buckled up, belt low and across my hip (restraint over belly may cause internal injuries).
@@oahuhawaii2141Good, I’m glad you do that. I wish more passengers would do that. When I fly I do try to get into the exit rows myself. Why? Because I work as ground crew and I operate both Boeing and Airbus doors all the time. But from the outside.
I’d go over it again with a flight attendant just to make sure. I also discreetly let them know that I’m an aircraft cleaner and ramper and fully prepared to help them with anything should they need it. I know the interior almost as much as they.
Thank you for being situationally aware while flying. Flight attendants love having passengers like you on their flights! @@oahuhawaii2141
@@oahuhawaii2141bro's a menace to society 😂😂😂
@@mikoto7693: Glad you're ready to help out.
I've asked the FA if it's better to raise the armrests during the emergency exit procedure, even if that isn't specified. I figure it reduces the chances of an armrest catching onto a passenger trying to rush out. I also suggested that the door panel, if removable, be placed in a seat in the non-exit row (either in front of or behind the exit row), rather than place it on the seat by the exit. The panel is another potential obstruction.
Thank you for covering this. I had a cousin who was on the USAir flight and died. Per his friends (who survived) he may have gone back for his briefcase :( Very important lessons I never forget now - *always* keep your seatbelt on until the plane *fully* stops, especially in a crash, *never* go back for a personal belonging, *don't* sit in an exit row unless you really can fulfill the job. People's lives may depend on it.
RIP Jim, he left behind a wife and 5 children. He was very loved.
He may have left behind a wife and five children, but no one can ever say he left his briefcase behind
Sorry for the loss of your family member, and what a horrible ordeal for his friends who survived but will probably never know exactly what happened to your cousin.
@@reshpeck my family has a weird sense of humor, and Jim was a habitually late person. His wife made a joke at the funeral that they used to say he would be late for his own funeral - and because of issues with getting him sent back to Ohio, he really *was* late for his own funeral!
@@SusantheNerdy Well it honestly makes me happy to know that Jim might have thought my comment funny. I gave a eulogy for a friend who died of overdose/suicide a few years ago and all I did was talk shit about him, and everyone loved it because we all knew he would have laughed his ass off. I sincerely hope someone does the same for me one day. May Jim and all his important documents rest in peace!
So sorry to hear about your cousin. Life isn't fair, especially because one of the survivors was billionaire David Koch, who went on to massively damage the country for his own ends. Reminds me of Nigel Farage surviving an air crash back in 2010.
The car travelling south at 0:38: Okay, so we need to take a left here.... NO!! NOT HERE!! GO STRAIGHT!!
😂😂
Good catch... 😅
🤣🤣🤣
Lol! Very good catch!
My Father, also an airline pilot who ended his career on the 737-300 had the same amazing story-telling ability. I remember him telling us about accidents, issues he had had during a flight, etc., and, he would also switch from the main narrative to the technical explanation... we would always listen, amazed at every detail. I miss the old man's stories, and this is about as close as I remember them to be. Thank you for that.
I was once allocated an overwing seat and a Flight Attendant briefed me on how to open the exit after checking I was able to do so, just as was described in this video. I appreciated them taking the time to do this, and I believe they also appreciated how I sat down and listened, paid attention and then asked them a short clarifying question. Had there been an emergency, this exchange may possibly have saved lives including my own. This is one of many reasons why I always shut the hell up and listen to any safety briefing, angered when my fellow passengers do not. It's reckless and dangerous to believe their mobile phones, distracting irrelevant yapping and packets of noisy crisps are more important than their lives & mine. It's also fiercely disrespectful towards the Cabin Crew who are trying to do their jobs and keep us all alive.
I, and I assume you, have the privilege of having traveled by plane so often as to consider it a privilege to do so. I can easily imagine that there are probably others who have traveled so often that the safety briefing is more of an annoying delay than important information, though chances are they have not flown as much as the flight attendant(s) giving the briefing 🥴
Well said. I completely agree that paying full attention during the safety briefing is the least passengers can do to show basic respect to the flight attendants as they're fulfilling their professional role of helping to keep us safe. Listening to that briefing is two minutes of your life that might help save your life. I sit in the emergency exit rows for the extra legroom whenever I can (I fly Southwest, so open seating), and I always make sure to read through the safety card and look at the door to make sure what type it is even though I've done those things tons of times before. If something happens, I want to make sure I know what I need to do.
@@Wolfeson28 Exactly. I fly far less often; my last flights were between UK and Spain a few years ago. Even if I were flying every week and even if it had become a mundane and tiresome ritual, I would still listen. There may be something different about this particular plane, some change in procedure, some random passenger with access requirements - anything - and if I just rhyme it in my head then I'm putting myself and others at risk.
I'm not a nervous flyer at all. In fact I'm the opposite. I love the experience and find the traditionally "scary" phases of flight - takeoff, landing and turbulence - particularly interesting. I daresay even exhilarating. However my enthusiasm and avgeekiness will do nothing to save my life if it all goes south. So instead, I take the approach of wanting to enjoy and learn from the whole flight experience, yet continue to respect it. The plane is bigger and heavier than me, without a soft squishy interior. If we smash into one another, I'm pretty sure that I'll come off worse from the trade.
My daughter was on a SWA flight out of Love. The cabin attendant was trying to do the safety briefing, and most of the pax ,who had heard it a dozen times, were standing up, messing with stuff in the bins. She stopped, then yelled into the PA mic, " Sit down and shut up! We're here to save your a*s not to kiss it!"
+1
Hi Petter, as someone with 35 years of broadcast TV experience, you and your team make 'absolutely fantastic' content with really high production values. Great; balanced, well researched, thoughtful, non sensationalised, factual and well presented scripts with excellent graphics and CG to back it up. It is really refreshing to watch and I always feel your intentions are to educate and improve safety. Thanks.
I have to agree 100% on this valuation. There is obvious vast amounts of time & effort involved in this incredibly informative video with every aspect clearly detailed so a non-aviation person can completely understand (even including footnotes to identify some terminology). My absolute favorite channel even over Mayday! Petter - thank you; every video is absolutely excellent!!!!
I appreciate the sensitivity you show when handling these tragic situations - you're the best!👍
Thank you, we do try. 💕
I could tell that he had some trouble relating the story, emotionally.
Thankfully, it was a Tenerife done extra light.
Both still make me nauseous.
he is the best.
After watching Mentour Pilot for awhile I actually pay attention to the safety briefings. And, I always count the rows to the nearest exit.
I started counting rows after this crash happened. Though later on I read about the Air Canada plane that landed on fire and that really sealed the deal.
I started counting and paid closer attention after my husband started working on his private pilot certificate. The more I knew the better passenger I was.
"Remember your nearest exit might be behind you"
Well I kinda know them by heart but I pretend to listen intently out of politeness and I definetly make a note of the exits and any "obstacles". Plus I'm not too attached to life so I like to think I'd have the presence of mind to help people get out and "remind" people not to take anything along. Do something good before checking out. Of course if everyone's off I'd get out, I'm don't have a death wish, it would just solve a great deal of problems very conveniently and one last FU to the insurance that has to pay out so my folk can take it easy.
Too many instances of “I feel like I’m forgetting something” for me to be an air traffic controller…
no way i could do it.
No way me either it's to riskyof a job omg I'd be hopeless
you're not the president of that club
obviously like any job some people are more suited than others, but the important lesson is to structure the system such that a single mistake by one person can't on it's own cause something like this. Any system that requires human operatives to work all day, every day without making errors is doomed to fail.
@@selseyonetwenty4631100% Well said.
I love how Petter drops little tid bits and hints as to what aircraft systems/details will be relevant in the story later on so we can be prepared and make educated guesses
I remember once I was sitting behind the exit row and this woman kept on not listening to the flight attendant doing the evacuation briefing for those seats, the flight attendant got her to swap seats with someone else after she kept on looking at her phone.
Thank goodness!
Yet, society allows car drivers to not care about traffic laws and nobody revokes their drivers license.
As many have said "Flying is safer than driving a car". So, if that lady was forced to switch seats for not caring about flight safety instructions while seated in fire exit row on a plane, then a careless driver of a car should have to give up their license for not caring about many traffic laws with regards to - the proper use of turn signals, improper tailgating, unnecessary use of high beam lights, etc., since cars are obviously more dangerous than flying a plane as per statistics, but people just wanna pretend to care by removing that lady from fire exit row, but not care to cut off the legs of a bad car driver.
@@abhishekgarg5286 this video isn’t about car drivers. Plus it does force you to care, you give up your license for not following traffic rules where it can be enforced, plus fines are super expensive , with cameras and undercover cops everywhere checking. If you’re caught on your phone while driving it’s $500+ and pretty much half your points for losing license. (In Australia)
Society doesn’t have enough infrastructure to kick everyone off the road for one mistake, so driving is critical for keeping the country running. I don’t drive or have a car but that’s my take.
Every time I board an aircraft, once I am seated comfortably, I take out the emergency instructions card and have a good look at it. If I'm sitting in an exit row, I'll have a look to ensure I know how the door works. While I hope to never need any of that information, it is better to have it refreshed properly than to not think and know about it but needing it.
Yeah, I always get an uneasy feeling when I look at the people in the exit row and they look completely incapable of managing stress or performing any demanding physical activity.
Thank you for doing this I am a now retired flight attendant, and as a result of this accident, flight attendants are required to ensure that everyone sitting at all exit rows are able and willing to open the exits in an emergency. If anyone says they do not want the responsibility or does not understand English well enough to understand instructions, they are reseated. Also, any children under age 15 are not allowed to sit in exit rows.
Last flight I was on, I ended up in the exit row, so checked the card to see a) how the door opened, and b) if any of the illustrations were funny. Flight attendant gave me a big thumbs up, lol.
I am a very tall guy, I prefer to be seated in an emergencyexitseat. I also watched 'Sully' and became interested in aviation about 4 years ago. I never skip a manual when I board a plane, and always watch the flightattendants' safety and emergencybriefing when they demonstrate. Your life may depend on it. I always figure out how to open the door after I read the manual in the seatpocket in front of me.
@@Niteowlette Two months ago, I was on a plane in Europe from Malaga (Spain) to Amsterdam. I was seated in the emergencyexitrow next to a young woman, who clearly spent more time on her looks then on safetyissues. When your colleague asked the standard question in English if we could perform our duties when necessary, I answered 'Of course' and the young woman said 'yes'. When I wanted to tell her something right before landing, I noticed that she didn't speak any English. Also, she failed after landing to assist a fellow passenger by retrieving his belongings from an overhead bin, I always do that for my fellow passenger. I practically scolded her after on walking through the gate after disembarking, but she didn't understand me anyway.
How would you have handled this kind of situation?
I live near LAX clearly remember the *bang.* LAX now has a row of large lights on the taxiway: red = do not enter the runway; green = ok to enter. It also has a new tower and ground radar.
In this case, the metroliner was cleared to enter the runway.
this is alot a kind of sistem the lax was ornganly used on usa naval aircraft carrers and a sci fi prof of conecpt in flight and space simlators in video games orginaly untill they got implented in real life.
Too bad they hadn't been fitted with the upgraded ground radar already. They had been asking for it for a long time. Also too bad that the lighting that was reported as blinding ATC was "fixed" while still blinding them. That aint no fix. 😕
Seems like common sense to have essentially traffic lights at crucial points like runway intersections.
These are some of the changes since 1991.
LAX now prioritizes the use of the outboard runways (24R and 25L) for landings and the inboard runways (24L and 25R) for takeoffs, though mixed operations may occur in certain situations. Additionally, a new control tower was built at LAX, in a more central location, significantly taller and with a better vantage point, allowing visibility of all runways and critical taxiways at the airport.
Before this accident, the FAA issued a ruling that required airlines to upgrade the flammability standards of materials on board, but the USAir plane had been built before the effective date of those requirements and had not yet been modernized. It was scheduled to be upgraded within the next year. By 2009, all aircraft operating in the United States were compliant.
Air traffic controller Wascher, who bore the immediate responsibility for the crash, was adjudged to have made an error in adverse circumstances that any air traffic controller could have made and was not prosecuted or fired. She declined an offer to return to air traffic control and took a desk job at the FAA's western regional office.
My younger brother and sister knew the son of a couple who were passengers on that Sky West Metro aircraft. The son, who they knew in college, was suffering considerably due to the loss of his parents and as a result had lost direction in his life. A very sad story indeed.
Sad :/ do you know if the son of the deceased couple managed to create a good life for himself, when the years went by?
Yes I was wondering that too. So much more to this very sad story. Indeed. @@NiklasVWWV
I hope he found his way. He love his parents and his parents must have greatly loved him.
I don't know what happened to that guy. My younger brother and sister lost track of him with the passage of time. I hope his life got better.
One thing that adds to the sadness a little bit are the last words of the captain on the CVR of USAir Flight 1493 before it cut out... it was "What the Hell?!" - it shows just how little time they had between seeing SkyWest Airlines Flight 5569 and the crash.
Cockpit voice recorder
As a Captain who has only operated in European airspace, it has always worried me, listening to many ATC communications in USA, that landing clearances are issued to approaching aircraft when the runway has not been confirmed as being clear of other traffic. DANGEROUS!
Yes! Although in this case, sadly, she must have thought it was clear.
Unrelated to what happened in this video, but it does seem to be common in the US to issue a line up and wait and a landing clearance for the same runway, relying on being able to call up the landing aircraft in case of a delay with the departing one.
I used to operate into the US fairly regularly and this practice is still very common. I think I was once cleared to land as number 4 on approach, with multiple aircraft to cross the runway in between. I get that major US hubs are incredibly busy but it doesn’t strike me as very safe practice.
As a side note, the quality of RT communication varies enormously from airport to airport, often as a function of how easy to understand the local accent is and how quickly people there tend to speak. MSP for example is pretty good.
The constant use of phraseology which is not standard or even unknown for non-US pilots does my head in as well.
Last night I landed in NRT. We were told to continue starting at 9nm out while 3 departures took place. We were cleared to land on a 3nm final as an aircraft had just started their takeoff roll. It's not just in the US where this happens.
A similar scenario happened to me at XMN last year. That time though, the aircraft taking off rejected forcing us to go around from about a 2nm final.
Bold of you to assume this is a USA issue
I am not a pilot. I am so happy that both ATC and pilots go through regular training. I remember the story of the Las Vegas controler who was working the night shift and had a stroke. She was the only controller on duty. The pilots remembered their training, called EMS, got everyone on the ground safely, and she recovered.
The best flight disaster content par none, this guy delivers!
We try our best. 💕
Bar none
@@daveweil6767 sure, par or bar none, you feel vindicated?
@@jooei2810Your 1st post was still right if no one is on par with Petter. Of course, if you seek below par, we're talking about a different set of balls.
@@MentourPilot Could you please consider doing a story on Yeti Airlines Flight 691? As many as 72 people lost their lifes. it's bizzar accident, but it has much deeper layers than even unthinkable pilots error. Yeti Airlines track records (regular crashes), amateur oversight from gov. officials (oversight body has executive and oversight functions - asked to split by EU, but not done. Some people would lose access to aorpirt contracts). The crash report was made public recently - and it ommits all the weird and amateurish mistakes made by oversight body, focusing solely on pilots. This is horrible stuffand different dimention to the regular stuff you have here.
Is it just me or do this accident Videos get better and better? Its truly amazing how well these accidents are covered, from all aspects and graphically superbly enhanced. A traffic accident but very well broken down to see how the Swiss cheese model came into play. Simply a professional work!!! Thank you!
It's that word "almost" that terrifies me when the report says "perished almost immediately".
I'm not an expert, but if it makes you feel any better there are many people that have been injured horrifically or even died and then came back and they've reported that there was no pain in those situations until later. So those people probably knew something bad had happened, but were not suffering.
In my higher-speed bike or water skiing accidents, everything slowed down, I watched the impact happen to me like behind a TV, and laid/floated dazed for a moment as I reoriented myself. It usually didn't hurt much until I was resting (and getting medical attention), an impact like that. The huge kinetic force involved (and mind you, this is me tumbling into grass or water at 17mph, not in a massive airplane chassis going hundreds of mph) stunned me too much for me to feel the pain for a significant amount of time.
I guess your mileage may vary. But it's not even as bad as the pain of stubbing your toe, let alone something more serious, until you're on the mend.
@@anonymousposter6461 That's good to know, cheers!
Adrenaline is a powerful drug
Watched so many aviation tragedy videos...This one hits hard by far. No adverse weather conditions, no mistake of pilots, no malfunctioning of aircraft...just a plain oversight coupled with a lot of other relatively smaller lapses that led to a disaster of this stature.
Horrible crash! People tend to think ATC never makes mistakes which is obviously not true. I had ground giving me clearance to cross a runway while the stopbar lights remained red. Looking out the tow truck i could see an aircaft on final as well heard the clearance given to them because i was listening to both frequencies. Situational awareness is everything!
All humans make mistakes
horrifying, very grateful you noticed
@@durdleduc8520 Thank you! We are all humans, so we will all make mistakes. Incident/accident prevented, lessons learned, everyone happy.
People often forget about the non-aircraft traffic moving around the airfield. I was pased to drive buses airside, though at a small airfield (UK) before the low cost aviation boom. You need eyes in all directions and ears on all frequencies. For part of our airfield, navigation around the apron was (for ground vehicles) entirely visual and only requiring ground contact for crossing taxiways. It's a very strange experience driving over a taxiway in a 30ft bus when you're surrounded by aircraft.
Fully agree, In my case it was a fully fueled A330 behind an under powered tow truck, so when clearance is given it takes a while to get going and actually cross a runway as well. All important factors, it's hard to be aware of everything around you, but critical as well. @@derektaylor2941
Between you and Juan Brown, I do learn a lot. These video presentations you make should be mandatory viewing for pilots, mechanics and controllers. Cheers from Winnipeg.
And equally as important, the passengers.
Now living within sight of LAX approach--can confirm that LAX no longer runs with all 4 runways used for both takeoff and landing. There's two lines of planes coming in, and two going out, and they're not lined up. I suppose if LAX ever got extremely busy they could go back to 4-at-a-time, but I don't think they will.
Yeah, this is correct. I can't speak for how things worked the past, or how they may work under weird/unusual circumstances; but at the present, under normal circumstances, they absolutely do split up the runways so that each one is used for either takeoffs OR landings.
I live in the area, and I do some plane-watching every once in a while (that one spot by the In-N-Out, directly underneath the flights coming in for landing on 24R, is fantastic), and I've been interested enough in the past to have actually looked up what the different runway operation configurations are for the airport.
So, as covered in the video, LAX's north complex has two parallel runways: 24L/06R (inner) and 24R/06L (outer). And the south complex also has two parallel runways: 25R/07L (inner) and 25L/07R (outer).
Most of the time, the wind is blowing in from the west, from the ocean; which means there's a headwind (desirable) for the 24/25 (west) direction. And so, under Normal Operations, everything goes west: planes come in for arrival on 24R and 25L (the outer pair of runways), and planes set up for departure on 24L and 25R (the inner pair of runways).
(And part of why they use the outer pair for arrivals, rather than the other way around, is because obviously whatever goes to or comes from those outer runways will need to cross the inner runways; and AFAIK it's a bit safer to have planes crossing after landing way down at the "far" end of the takeoff runway, than it is to have planes crossing as they get set up for takeoff up up at the "near" end of the landing runway. Or in any case, this is what I have read and been led to believe.)
Anyway, on the rare occasions when the wind is going significantly in the other direction (e.g. when we have Santa Ana winds), you'll have headwinds for the 06/07 (east) direction; and so Eastward Operations just flips everything like a mirror, with arrivals on 06L and 07R (the outer pair) and departures on 06R and 07L (the inner pair). So still using the outer two runways for arrivals, and the inner two runways for departures, but just with everything moving east instead of west. (And obviously, all activity has to stop for a little while if the airport decides to flip directions.)
There is also another configuration, which happens between 12:00am and 6:30am. During that time, LAX does Noise Abatement Operations, which is an attempt to keep things slightly quieter for nearby residents. They only use the inner pair of runways (to keep the noise slightly farther away from the edge of the airport); and, wind permitting, they do departures to the west but arrivals to the east (so that planes are mainly flying low out over the ocean to the west, and not over inland areas to the east). Arrivals use 06R, the east direction of the north inner runway, and departures use 25R, the west direction of the south inner runway.
(And again, they might do other things in other, special circumstances; but this is how things run in normal situations.)
9:58 Excellent work for the pilots to confirm the changeover to 24-Left from Right. In many other videos on this channel, when something major like a runway change happens there is no confirmation at all. Just wanted to put out a kudos for them being extra safe at this point in the story.
It also feels like a terrible idea to have arriving and departing traffic use the same runway, even when there are 4 of them on the airport.
Indeed. I can't figure why when the runway placement makes most of the work around spatial planning
Yeah, and this is not how LAX normally operates these days: two runways are for arrivals and two are for departures. Not sure why things were different back at the time of this incident.
After every close call on the news these days in our airports, I keep mentioning that we haven't fully learned from Tenerife. Not that this has much to do with Tenerife exactly but that we're not careful enough.
Close calls happen because airports and airlines are more concerned with affirmative action hires and paying as little as possible instead of hiring actually valuable and intelligent workers. This thought process is polluting every aspect of society and is why it is collapsing.
Why would an aircraft ever be sitting on a runway it makes no sense.
@@jeebusk to speed things up. Lined up aircraft can start the roll much quicker than aircraft that's holding on taxiway. So in this case, the ATC idea could have been to have the further aircraft cross runway while Skywest was taxing and then Skywest could start takeoff roll as soon as runway was clear and depart just in time for UsAir arrival.
@@el_quba how many seconds will you save starting a roll on the runway vs short?
Send them to get trained by Edelweiss 298 B. (RUclips: LOSS OF CONTROL ON TAKEOFF | Pilots Avoid an Accident at High Speed, VASAviation).[Not to be taken seriously]
It must be horrible for the tower person knowing this chain of events revolved around her. the airport not separating the landing and takeoff lane, the glare light making it hard to see the plane, the miss radio frequency on crossing plane, the regulation to not turn on lights on runway before actually taking off, the pilots not noticed the clearance strangeness, and ultimately her own major mistake for giving clearance. one mistake amplified by other factor is terrifying.
I can't imagine what it was like. She was cleared of guilt by the investigation, which concluded it was an error anyone might have made in the same circumstances, but she didn't return to controlling.
I’m not the most sympathetic person if I’m being honest, however I feel so bad for her. I do believe what happened could’ve happened to any controller. I’m really glad the NTSB put the emphasis on LAX’s deficiencies rather than simply blame the controller. Another reason why the NTSB are world class
I feel terrible for her too. Condolences for everyone's involved. It's an extremely stressful job that requires 100% concentration for hours but they get regular breaks if fully staffed.
Unfortunately the US also has a shortage of controllers. I heard they are working extremely long hours with even less breaks due to the shortages. My friend's vacation request has been denied multiple times. They are to the point of burning out or just quitting.
The scary thing is I had no idea it was that bad. You think the government would put more effort advertising this shortage to get new recruits.
Strobe should have been on as soon as it entered the runway, if it was cleared it should have been put on, if they weren't cleared they should not have been on the runway already, or did I miss something?
@@BoominGame They were cleared onto the runway. I think at the time they didn't have to have their strobes on before starting the takeoff.
A good step above things like Mayday just based on the non-dramatized delivery and expertise-driven commentary. Thanks for your work.
Glad you liked it!
you know what i like about this channel, it not only gives the final report and facts but also gives a platform for the victims and people involved in an accident to come and speak about their experience. a very rare thing to see
These videos must take a tremendous amount of work. All the details, the graphics, showing the runway configurations, lights, instruments, going back and looking at the regulations, before and after and the attention to detail is TOP NOTCH.
How do you find time to fly?
@@R_love45 I think it’s much more than that. He’s cutting in so many clips of cockpit instruments, backgrounds, map overlays etc. etc. too. I’ve done a tiny bit of video editing and all that stuff chews up hours and hours.
I just want to acknowledge the hard efforts that go into such a smooth and polished final product. Mentour rocks!
such a sad plane crash but i hope that you are doing well, petter!! you have inspired me to want to become a pilot when i'm older so thank you so much!! -mati
Good luck! My friends son, George who is 17, has his private pilots licence (he actually got featured in a bunch of news articles for getting his licence that young!), has done his nighttime certification, and needs to do his medical (needs to travel from Scotland to England to do it, I believe London). I believe you’ll do amazing just like my friends son George who like you also watches Petter!! Good luck Mati, you’ll do absolutely amazing!
it's super cool to see someone else who's into rhythm games want to become a pilot :))
@@okay-oliver woah, you like pjsk too??
@@ZombieSazza thank you, and that's co cool!!
Thank you! I wish you the best of luck my friend, fly safe.
man...the similarity to the Naneda Airport runway collision on Jan 2, 2024. Even though they have different causes, but they got pretty much same outcomes. RIP to the people passed in both incidents.
This really highlights the importance of following evacuation procedures too. Everyone got out of the bigger plane in the recent collision because they focused on following evacuation procedures and getting out efficiently. Obviously the USAir cockpit was crushed so the captain's death was probably inevitable, but those people who weren't able to get out in time partially because of people fighting and freezing up and going back for luggage might've been able to get out if everyone had just focused on the task at hand.
Indeed. - RIP.
I was just thinking that. Turboprop lined up for an intersection departure got clobbered by a landing jet. Part of the cause was different, but the smaller plane being invisible due to it's position and the lighting conditions was a common factor.
@@brandyballoon do we know the cause for the 2024 accident??
@@arlen2 I just checked for updates (from Wikipedia so take with a grain of salt but):
"..Prior to the accident, air traffic controllers cleared the JAL aircraft to land on runway 34R,[93] while the Coast Guard aircraft was instructed to hold short of the runway at a holding point on taxiway C5.[66] NHK, however, citing a source within the Coast Guard, reported that the pilot of the Coast Guard plane claimed to have received clearance to take off.[29] Air traffic controllers later told MLIT officials that they had not noticed the Coast Guard plane moving onto the runway, adding that they were preoccupied with assisting other aircraft.[94] An MLIT official said that the pilot of the Coast Guard aircraft may not have heard the air traffic control tower authorizing the JAL aircraft for landing as at the time, his radio could have been set on the same frequency as that of ground control."
So it's not quite the same, but if this is all true, it has a lot of similarities - an aircraft on the wrong frequency, controllers occupied with other aircraft missing the chance to stop the accident, etc. Obviously the direct fatal mistake seems like it was from the Coast Guard crew and not the ATC this time, but again - Swiss cheese model and all that. I heard they're investigating fatigue and such as well in the Coast Guard crew to see if that may have been a factor.
It's incredibly refreshing to hear a pilot who likes the Metroliner. I work on them as an apprentice, and they really don't get enough love from media
I worked ramp at an airport where an Ameriflight metroliner occasionally visited. One time, it had gearbox trouble, then brake issues, then more brake issues. Ameriflight had a technician out for all 3 weeks wrenching on it and we had to move it back and forth to keep it from clogging up the precious ramp space we had at our little regional.
I have nothing against the plane itself, but man, some of them are in Dire need of replacement.
I have read many of the comments written about this presentation. I was surprised that several were from survivors or knew of survivors. God bless them all, and for mentor pilot explaining this tragedy as always in detail that even a novice can follow.
Imagine being that tower controller, she has to come to terms with making a mistake that killed all those people. Of course it wasn’t just her fault, it was a wider structural failure and poor decisions by managers. Still though, that must be so tough for her. RIP to all those who perished.
Exactly. I lost sleep the night after watching this thinking of the horrible realization of being responsible for this accident. Devastating.
Last week Weds I took the RYANAIR flight ARN to STN and I was sat in exit door row 16. The air hostess came to tell us 12 about the responsibility of the exit doors. She was somehow timid or new and spoke "pip-pip-pippity-peep" . No one heard her although I saw her mouth moving, I bent forward to try to hear her. No-one was paying her attention, and having said her "piece" in approx 5 sentences she turned and disappeared. The person doing that needs better training to say it LOUD and make sure that the 12 have heard and understand the full requirement !
Its ryanair, you'd probably have to pay extra to use an emergency exit anyway.....
Did she have a quiet and timid voice? Was it the stewardess Elaine from the movie Airplane?
@@paulbriggs3072 Love that movie.
@@JamesDavy2009Striker!
@@AndrewBlucher _(punches a random woman nearby)_
I feel so sorry for the atc worker because I’m sure she was doing her best but systemic issues led to such a terrible disaster
I feel the same. With such situations, how human mind works it can become ones worst enemy for the rest of the life. There is no shelter from such a beast.
Its called empathy for someone and being human.
@@panosdotnetit can be hard to do, but it is almost always better (in terms of improving behaviour) to show empathy and be non-confrontational because of how our brains work. This is another reason ‘just culture’ is so important in safety-critical industries.
A more detailed explanation (I do a lot of - non-safety critical - change management as part of my work but I’m not a psychologist, so bear that in mind): our brains filter out most information we receive so they can cope with the world, and one of the criteria used for higher-level filtering is whether the source is considered ‘in-group’ or ‘out-group’. If you’re considered ‘out-group’, anything you say is more likely to be discarded unconsciously or weighted lower (this comes from our pre-history as tribal primates). Lack of empathy or aggression towards a person they consider ‘in-group’ (such as someone doing the same job as them) flag you as ‘out-group’. If you want to improve how controllers behave, you can get much better retention and internalisation through showing empathy *especially* when it goes against our retributive justice cognitive bias.
@@panosdotnetpittyness isn't a word buddy
Same with me. You train and train constantly to prevent something like that from happening only for it to happen anyway.
I worked in a very old library and came across an original B-17 manual and this reminded me that it warned about the fire suppression system when it comes into contact with fire it creates a poison gas and to take appropriate precautions.
Probably a halon suppression system.
This video coming out around the Haneda airport runway collision in Japan is simply tragic. 33 years later, with all the technological developments, and the human being remains as the weakest link😢
As tragic as Haneda is, it could have been a whole lot worse. Nobody on the commercial jet died, and that's probably in large part because they didn't land and then ram the other plane so much as they landed on top of it.
Great coverage as usual Petter. (Sad- and really bizarre that people unbuckled belts before the aircraft stopped moving. I had not known this previously.)
I landed a 767 there a month or so after the accident, and the captain and I had nearly three hours to kill before flying up to SFO, and during that time we managed to organise a tower visit.
During that visit we discussed the awful accident at length with the ATC guys, who were still even then in a bit of shock over the tragic events of this night.
@28:00 Former USN and FAA controller here... "Line up and wait" was ICAO only until 2009 or 2010. The FAA's phraseology was "taxi into position and hold" prior to that. So it wasn't ambiguous or non-standard phraseology, it was documented and *THE* phraseology for US controllers. Any US controllers that said "Line up and wait" prior to the FAA's implementation would have been using incorrect phraseology.
It was standard in Canada too. Our phraseology was changed to "Line up and Wait", because "Position and Hold" could be confused to "Position and ROLL". I intensely dislike multiple landing clearances, simply because using them does not give full attention to each landing situation.
This is such a similar event to the recent runway crash at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport one month ago in January of 2024,
where an Airbus A350 ran over the top of a Canadian Coast Guard De Havilland Dash 8 that had taxied in front of the landing A350.
The only difference is that the Dash 8 presumably had all of its beacon lights lit and strobing, yet was still unnoticed by the A350 on that dark night.
Yes, indeed, exactly. It´s disturbing how similar both accidents were.
The tragedy at Haneda was that the coast guard pilot never had clearance to actually enter the runway. That accident was on him alone. It is also possible that the A350 pilots never saw him due to the angle of their landing flare out.
It's always easy for people to say "surely you could've seen something if you paid enough attention", and just like the incident towards the end of last year in Japan, that's very easy to say when pilots are not expecting an aircraft to be on the runway. It's easier to spot something when you know it's there ahead of time. Pilots don't expect an aircraft to be on their runway they have been approved for. That doesn't mean they always assume there isn't any threat or issues on the runway, nor aren't checking, but in this case people arguing that if they looked hard enough and focused they would've seen something small is silly. You can see that because you know what you're looking before ahead of time, pilots don't stare at the same part of a runway for a minute straight looking for flashing lights of a potential aircraft.
Fantastic video as always Petter and team. I hope you and the family are well also Petter, need a catch up soon!
I really hope the ATC operator was okay, so many factors outside of her control led to this accident. Human error was obviously involved but not entirely on her end
I hope so too. She was new at her job, it was a guy who didn't do his job and forgot to report over to her (which is just a human error as well which normally would likely not have disasterous consequences). And then there was this stress. Dark night. Unlucky circumstances. And much bad luck.
I was a pilot for SkyWest on the metroliner hired a year or so after this accident. Still remember taxiing into position on a 45° angle as a precaution.
Shades of Japan. Another happy Patreon crew.
But the thing is with US1493 is that the controller make a mistake.
Yes, I made this with that accident in mind. Loads of similarities
Maybe we need more tech and procedures to add redundancy in busy airports. A version of tcas along the glide slope perhaps?
@@barrysilverman8865 Tcas would have a field day if used in landing or take off as there are a lot of planes which would be in the vicinity , 8km in the air and 8km in the ground are two different emergency scenarios . I think they now have a system already which is similar to ground radar which shows flights on a map of the airport and where their actual positioning in busy airports
@@barrysilverman8865 there are ARIWS, but they come with a lot of caveats regarding software configuration and sensor quality
WOW! This accident made me feel the most angst and sorrow about any accident report I've ever seen.
The crew & passengers in the Skywest flight were completely innocent -- none of its crew made any mistake (they followed all of the rules in place then) -- but they died horrifically. Still, thank you to Petter for dedicating so much time informing us all. Great content.
Im not sure they are completely innocent because in the Swiss Cheese model even small things can prevent an accident. As they were sat on the runway the level of awareness would need to be high and a communication to the tower asking asking for take off clearance may have helped or hearing the USAir landing clearance. Small things yes but ultimately, sadly, fatal.
They're sitting on an active runway, waiting for TO clearance
They should be monitoring the frequency
They should hear another aircraft being cleared to land
They don't speak up
@@Wannes_ Yep there was a near miss with Air Canada and others where monitoring and heightened level of awareness prevented disasters. As mentioned in the video the last level of safety is down to the pilots watching out and listening
Watch the episode where the pilot let his two teenage kids fly the plane. The teenage son was being a typical jerkoff teen boy, wasn’t happy just going along with the auto pilot, so did a more extreme turn, which set off a series of events that led to it crashing and killing everyone on board a huge Russian commercial jet. It’s the most unnecessary & disastrous crash that I’ve seen him cover. The other infuriating one is the two young pilots treating the jet like a performance racecar needlessly and crashing it. At least the second one didn’t have passengers, but all the crew died on impact.
@@emilycarter2492 That's not how it went down. The kid *didn't know* that the autopilot was on. His dad the pilot led him to believe that he was in full control of the plane and he (obviously not being trained) tilted the controls enough to AUTOMATICALLY and _subtly_ disengage the autopilot. His father wasn't even in the copilot seat and the kid wouldn't have known what to look for even if that concern was put into his mind. If his father didn't know that's how that worked despite his training, how would he??? He was a kid being a kid.
Can you imagine being in the shoes of that ATC controller?
You have the only channel where I don't fast forward the adds because I know it benefits you. That says alot about your content! Thank you, love the videos!!!
Awesome! Thank you!
The number of these videos where at least one of the causes was "people not using calls correctly/clearly enough" is honestly really upsetting. That seems like it would be one of the easier things to do and yet I keep seeing stories where it doesn't happen.
i was there. that USAir flight was supposed to take me home. horrific does not describe the scene i saw from the windows.
Many, many, people carry trauma from such events, and others go through them without ill effect.
Hope you're ok.
Scarily this accident was repeated recently in Japan - an airliner landing on top of a small turboprop that was holding on the runway in the touchdown zone.
I would disagree to the repeated part in your statement as the turboprop in this accident had been cleared onto the runway but the recent accident in japan the turbo prop had not. The result is very similar but the cause is very different
Similar accident but a different cause. ATC told the smaller aircraft to hold short, but it entered the active runway without clearance.
Yes, indeed, there´re a lot of similarities between the two accidents, which is disturbing.
That's because planes are allowed to wait on active runways. This is analogous to cars stopping at red lights in the middle of interactions. How stupid would this be. Now I don't understand why planes can sit and wait on an active runways (like cars in the middle of intersections on red light). If every plane wait on taxiways, mistakes like these would not have resulted in fatal collisions.
@@yummysatay I think it's not like they normally wait on a runway which is used by someone else for landing or take off. It's more that they wait for someone to cross or for a wake turbulence to wear off. Both accidents - this one and the one at Haneda in Japan happened, because someone made big mistakes. With proper ground radar, those accidents never would have happened.
Kudos to whoever is doing visuals to your videos. Great stuff and very informative channel. Keep up the good work
Petter, incredibly well researched & thought out production. I am really happy you are still enjoying FR/738 / 8Max, & it frustrates me to be unable to recall if we met before I departed GRO base in 2008 , maybe you recall ? Again, your videos are truly excellent , I have yet to find any inaccuracy or cringeworthy statement in any of them, & I have watched I believe pretty much all. Great job, & viewing them should be Mandatory for any pilot training school , Really ! ! ! ( " learn from others mistakes , you won't live long enough to make them all yourself"
Hey!
Likely not since I came to GRO in 2013 but we might have met somewhere else.
Thanks for your lovely comments, I aim to be as little cringeworthy as possible 😂
It's so nice to watch your videos and the way you tell the story is amazing.
You first let us learn about everything that will have a role in the accident: the metroliner lights, the airline procedure with the strobes, the inflammable materials and oxygen tank of the 737, the weaknesses of the ATC, the lack of a ground radar... all in a slow and understandable way.
And then suddenly all those things make the disaster possible. The pace of the story gets faster, as it happened in a matter of seconds.
Thanks for sharing this and keep up the excellent work.
This is the only channel I can find that allows the windowed mode in iPad without paying RUclips some money, thank you Mentour Pilot!
Our pleasure!
You are using these for education purposes and allow students to research information while the video is playing, these are top quality educational videos!
@@panosdotnet it seems so
I do not have an iPad so I am unable to test this, but have you tried using a web browser, such as Safari, to access RUclips instead of using the RUclips app? Maybe Safari will allow you to play a RUclips video in a separate window or in the background when the RUclips app will prohibit this function.
I understand why you have to pay for removing ads on youtube ,but paying for multitasking feature is a rip off it might even be scam .it is so annoying for content that mostly focused on audio like music and podcast
Hi Petter,
could u maybe look into doing a video on flight LY-1862. My dad has seen this accident happening and it is the biggest and most controversial accident in the Netherlands. Till this day, there still is discussion about it and it is very misunderstood so I thought it would be cool if you could cover it! Furthermore thanks for the amazing content, big fan!
Thanks for making the weekend great. Your videos comes to me as a stressbuster and it is way more better option to see your videos other than seing reels
I’m happy to hear that.
An excellent presentation, as always - many thanks, Petter. Another "swiss cheese" of factors 😢. A couple of questions immediately came to mind, please.
You mentioned that when air traffic control fails, the last remaining safety barrier becomes the pilots on that same frequency. There's clear explanation of how the pilots on Skywest 5569 and US1493 did not detect the conflict. But what about the pilot and co-pilot on SW 725? They should not have too been busy, and this was all happening on 24L, where they were next in the queue for take off. They had heard 5569 receive clearance to line up on the runway 24L at 45. Then they had received their clearance to taxi and await take-off clearance in sequence, right after 5569, on 24L. They were likely not too busy and eager to take off, so should have had plenty of situational awareness. Then the controller called them again to confirm they were holding which they did, and immediately after that she cleared US 1493 to land on 24L. They must have been interviewed in the investigation. How could they have missed the impending disaster, and not raised the alarm?
Second one is, stepping back from this controller overload, did the investigation recommend LAX change to assigning individual runways for take-off or landing only for long periods of time to simplify ground operations? And having a well-trained switch over procedure to use when needed. Having a system of minute by minute interlacing of take-offs and landings on four runways at a very busy airport seems to make an accident like this much more likely.
Thanks again for all the great ways you keep us armchair pilots so closely engaged!
I saw in the NTSB recommendations to also seperate lamding and takeoff runways. Now in LAX, the inboard runways, closer to the gates are for takeoff, while the outboard runways are only for landings. That definitely also makes things safer, im surprised to hear that wasnt always the case, especially for as busy an airport LAX was and still is.
Thank you so much for the fantastic video Petter, great job as always. Would you perhaps consider covering the Adria Airways crash in Corsica? It was a crash that significantly influenced the development of pilot-traffic control communication standards.
Can you send me a summary or report of that crash to petter@mentourpilot.com ? Thank you!
@@MentourPilot Thank you, I have sent it.
Mentour and Bloncolirio are undoubtedly the two absolute BEST channels for online incident reporting!💕💕👍
@@57JimmyGood channel but nowhere even close to the same league as Mentour Pilot. No other channel is on this level, not even Wonder showing episodes of Mayday, because those shows were geared towards general audiences and therefore heavy on human interest, light on technicals.
When I heard about the Haneda Airport runway collision a month ago, this was the first disaster that popped into my mind. I was thinking to myself, it's LA all over again! Different set of circumstances that lead to the accidents, but the net result was the same: Smaller aircraft on the runway at night is completely invisible to the larger landing aircraft until it is too late.
This is a fantastic channel, I love the insight into the complex ballet that is flying a plane safely and the incredible amount of processes and data points that have to come together for it to work, and what happens when they don't.
That poor ATC. I can't imagine how you would live with yourself. I couldn't do a job where people die if I made a mistake.
So you wouldn't drive a car if someone paid you to drive?
and it wasn't her fault. She didn't lose the tracking slip for the third airliner.
@@rustyshackelford3371 i actually don't drive!
But airline would be even worse because hundreds of people could die from one mistake
@@peterharris9274 technically I don't think that absolves her of fault
This channel has convinced me to just drive everywhere.
I live on the coast in the middle of the African continent and you are fortunate that you are able to drive. My three sons live in Sydney, Dubai and Canterbury, Kent and my sister and her daughters live somewhere north of UK. I have no choice but to fly. Thank you to Mentour presenter who delivers these videos. You are excellent in this delivery.
Thanks for the amazing video! 😍 I love your content and over these past few months, the editing and all have been so on point. Keep up with the great work!🎉
@@Capecodham Rupees.
@@Capecodham 300 rupees
As someone who isn't a pilot or ATC I would assume that lights which blocked the view of the runways, even partially, would be ground for stopping traffic operating on those runways at the very minimum. It's such a clear and obvious safety issue its hard to believe they chose to keep using that runway. And its not like there aren't a hundred different temporary solutions which could have prevented this accident, including just turning off that set of lights until they could be fixed.
34:07 This is a warning for people who unbuckles their belt and stands up getting their overhead luggage at the moment the airplane touches the ground.
I love how the airplanes are characters in the stories you tell us.
The collision that occurred in Japan on January 2nd, 2024, involving an Airbus A350 and a DHC Dash 8 is almost "a recreation" of this accident. Nothing was learned.
I guess in case of Japan the pilot of DHC was hurrying to get to the earthquake site... So, stress...
It was an unauthorized runway incursion by the Coast Guard plane, which the Haneda Tower failed to notice, as well as the landing JAL A350 pilots. The Coast Guard plane was told by Tower they were Number #1, but waited for take-off clearance at the wrong location (i.e. on the runway) for 70 seconds.
It's a collision but circumstances are somewhat different. It was during the News Years Holidays, so it's possible that ATC was overwhelmed. Coast Guard read back of instructions was correct. JAL's superb training of flight attendants saved all the passengers. Reportedly, the intracom was destroyed by the fire so coordination wasn't easy. Actually, JAL has never forgotten or forgave Boeing after JAL123.
Well done, Petter and team! I'm was so glad that you kind of recreated how the Skywest would have looked from the descending Boeing. That is, like not much at all, basically invisible. That was my big question "Don't these pilots use their regular eyeballs ever?", but you clearly showed that the Skywest would have been basically invisible. Aces!
I remember old air disaster movies where terrified passengers shake chairs for half an hour with lack of technical information. Being a nurse I enjoy all your videos. Thank you
How a supervisor is unsure how a system is supposed to work is so typical.
I was 2 years into my ATC career at Los Angeles Center and we lost our coworker who was on the SkyWest returning from a work trip.
Sorry for your loss, can't grasp how you guys have the guts to work in a job where one bad day (which we all have) can lead to 100's killed!!! You guys have my respect!
Greats explanations of this tragic event. In CDG they have implamented lights that switch on to red when an aircraft is clear for take off and to land
@@CapecodhamParis
Love your videos! Sometimes it's the little things I find most fascinating. Like tasking air crews to NOT line up on the centerline to improve visibility.
Would you seem yourself in a Delta Boeing 737 MAX 8 have the same situation as Lion Air but then the plane crash against a hill in Colombia, then the president of Colombia bans Boeing planes and certain airlines from Colombia switch their Boeing fleet to Airbus and Petro criticize the FAA and allow COMAC to enter Colombia with Avianca using their first COMAC C-919.
What will happen to you if you die in a Boeing MAX?
The only channel where I can understand why the disaster actually happened :D
Peter, now that ur this big it might become time to interview some of the survivors, investigators ect. There are already a few in ur comments and it would add a whole new deep dimension
This would have a high risk of turning this beautiful, educational channel into a mess of drama.
There's already the interview to Captain Dardano of flight Taca 110 if you haven't seen it.
I like the factual /technical interpretation of events thar Petter does.
Doing interviews would be more like the disaster TV shows (less factual, or longer)
The midair collision with a fighter jet (Hughes air west 706) seems like a good event for this channel.
It’s what largely changed the reliance of “see and avoid” with commercial air craft.
This report hits close to home for me. On the night of February 27, 1995, I was a captain for Lone Star Airlines and was catching a ride home from DFW to Hot Springs, Arkansas on one of our company Metoroliners. The captain of the metro had been my first officer in the past, and both crew members up front were very competent pilots. We were in position and holding on runway 35R (the current 35R at DFW didn’t exist then, the runway we were on is now 35C) when I noticed everything outside my window getting bright. I ducked down into the isle just as an MD-11 went over the top of us and touched down in front of us. I got to talk to the captain when we landed in Hot Springs and he was still awfully shaken up over it, he went inside of our station there in Hot Springs and called our director of operations who in turned called our Principle Operations Inspector with the FAA. I later learned that the captain of the MD-11 had no idea he had over flown us until his chief pilot called him the next morning. In all my years of operating out of DFW, this was the only time I can remember the controllers telling us to back taxi to the end of the runway before going into position and holding, we usually left from the intersection about a thousand feet up the runway, often having to hold in position there at the intersection. That is the reason why now when I have to back taxi on a runway, I never taxi on the centerline of the runway and will always hold in position off of the centerline a bit, especially at night.
Absolutely terrifying! What was the Tower's reaction? The poo in my pants would have signicantly delayed departure.
@@bwtawny The captain told me that when it happened, the tower frequency went quiet for a moment, then a different controller’s voice came on and said “Lone Star, are you guys okay out there? They answered affirmative. And the controller said “still want to go?” To which they also replied affirmative, and we were promptly cleared for takeoff. Even from the very back of the airplane, I could tell that the after takeoff checks were….rough….but the crew got us safely to Hot Springs. Like I said previously, they were shaken up, but also a very competent crew. They both continued flying and became captains for major airlines here in the USA, and to the best of my knowledge, they are both still flying. Also I heard, but can’t confirm that the tower initially logged it as an “operational anomaly” until…the caca hit the proverbial fan…then it was changed to a near miss. The NTSB determined that the center main gear of the MD-11 missed the tail of our Metroliner by les than 35 feet. CNN actually interviewed our captain, and I had my VCR (dating myself there) set to record the interview, but the day it was supposed to air, was also the day of the Oklahoma City bombing, so needless to say, it was preempted.
This makes me think of Air Canada 759 and how even though that didn't end in disaster, it came so close to it. And that was in 2017, over 25 years later with much better tech. I can only wonder what would've happened if the Philippines Airlines pilot hadn't had the ingenuity and quick reflexes to turn on his landing lights to help with visibility. Something like this with 5 massive passenger planes, 4 of which are full of fuel for an upcoming flight... it's just horrific to imagine.
This is maybe a stupid question but is there a reason we don't have some kind of high-vis paint that can go on planes to make them more visible at night?
Great idea!
Great video once again! I would have never guessed that perfectly lining up on the runway would be a bad thing but this video clearly explains the risks.
Yes, I could imagine feeling smug that I'm lined up perfectly!
Now passengers are probably thinking "lazy pilot hasn't bothered to line up properly" :-)
Your team does great work on the videos
Thank you! We really try our best to
This is a crash that I’ve studied prior - always trying to know what’s happened historically to try and avoid being a statistic. I really enjoy and appreciate the way that you tell the stories. Thank you for all of the work and effort that you do to accurately portray the events and tell a story and give a lesson. You have such a great skill. Please keep it going.
Superb presentation, Petter! Excellent writing, and narration. I also thank the many astute commenters below for adding their knowledge and experience for us to better understand the event.
I just landed at LAX last week. Mid landing, during the hard braking, we suddenly swerved and we were now on the parallel runway. I don’t think that was planned and the attendants were also a bit wide eyed. Anyway, all safe but very odd.
Sounds strange but I’m sure there was a logical explanation for it.
Highly strange.
My guess is they took an early “high speed taxiway” (hence the hard braking) and were immediately cleared to cross the inner runway. You couldn’t just “swerve” to a different runway while on the landing rollout without crashing.
@@nathanmcguire932 this makes me feel better, thanks so much. After this video I started thinking about what we were avoiding on the runway as I’ve never been in a landing where we turned lol. Thanks again😊
@@kckc4955 no problem! :D
Surely they can create a radar system just along the runway, separate to all other systems, and if it detects something is on the runway as an aircraft is within 0.5 miles approach of the runway it turns the threshold bar red which would be an instant go around. Using computers you can define the runway area to prevent erroneous triggers by aircraft at the side of the runway etc. Would have helped in both this and the recent Japan incident
but that would cost more money
@mobilemarshall be cheaper than a new airbus a350 and all the legal proceedings after let alone the cost of lives lost
And 30 years after this accident, that's what they are starting to do - more or less.
You can't change the color of the threshold lights. They must emit green light away from the runway and red light toward it. Besides, some approach light systems incorporate red lights. A string of red threshold lights would be confusing and, possibly, not noticed due to the red terminating bar of an ALSF-1 approach light system.
Some airports have runway status light (RWSL) systems. These are fully automated and are not dependent on ATC, although the controllers can adjust their brightness and turn them off, if necessary.
RWSL is mostly used to warn aircraft and vehicles operating on the ground of when it would be unsafe to enter, cross, or take off from a runway. It also warns landing aircraft of unsafe conditions by flashing the PAPI lights.
This system exists today (ASDE-3/AMASS) - it doesn't modify the lights, but it will alert the ATC for potential threats. But remember, this accident happened in 1991.
The similarity with the recent ANA incident is scary. Sad to see lessons not learned.
This accident seems to be January 2, 2024, Japan Airlines (JAL) flight 516 collided with a coastguard plane at Tokyo's Haneda airport.
Oh God. Goosebumps. So so so horrific. Thanks Petter.