A Brief Outline of Gurdjieff's Ideas | 'The Work'
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2023
- In this stream, I wanted to speak about some of Gurdjieff's concepts and ideas that his philosophical system is made up of. Taken together, these ideas are considered 'The Fourth Way', or simply 'The Work'.
We will delve into the captivating world of George Gurdjieff, a mystic and spiritual teacher who introduced the West to the transformative philosophy of the Fourth Way. Unlike traditional spiritual paths that often require withdrawal from daily life, Gurdjieff's teachings are a call to awaken within the hustle and bustle of our modern world.
Here is a list of the topics we will cover and discuss in the stream:
The Fourth Way
Sleep & Mechanicalness
Self-Remembering
Centers
Multiple ‘I’s
Self-study & Self Observation
The Law of Three & The Law of Seven
The Enneagram
Transmission
The Ray of Creation
Essence & Personality
Knowledge & Being
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#Gurdjieff #fourthway #thework #Ideas
Enjoying this channel, well done. I wanted to add that there is a great podcast resource on the work and the fourth way on audible and here on RUclips entitled “esoteric talks”. Very helpful, clearly laid out, and thorough as an introduction. There are around 95 presentations covering a myriad of related topics.
Thanks for the suggestion. 😀👍
Great to see this is only a month ago, i need you to keep going on these teachings. The fourth way, is maybe the only way , us city kids can break through, it's as close to a mystery school any of us are going to remotely get near. Thank very much, talk about any of it.
Most appreciated.
Welcome to the Club. I plan to speak more about it moving forward. Glad to have you here! 🙏
Frankly You are doing a great job. Documenting, video and voice, the work of Gurdjieff 🌱🌱
I appreciate that! Thank you. 🙏
regarding the question of how to apologize without identification? maybe by external consideration and reflecting, considering the fact we're all asleep and self-identified you can be sorry for your mechanical actions that trigger mechanical responses fed by mechanical emotions. The fact that you are asleep is a good enough reason for you to be sorry for many things. remember it feels real for others who are not working on themselves. apology might come from a different place with no identification but still comes with sincerity.
Great points. A great answer! 🙏
Keith Jarret Music for Gurdjieff.
apologies , especially those that are sincere, (which implies some degree of self reflection), help keep the peace.. and living in a society of peaceful machines is preferable over living in one of warring machines for all of us, either asleep or trying to wake.. contributing towards a peaceful society as well as our personal relationships, in what ever manner, is IMO, our only real responsibility to society, if there is one at all.
thanks Lewis, this episode brought back a few thoughts i haven't visited in a while, ie, the ray of creation..
Nicely put! I agree, peaceful machine are preferable to warring ones. 🙏
great talk thanks
Glad you enjoyed it. 🙏
Wow... you weren't kidding about getting on the outline quick. Thanks.
It was a great comment/question/idea for a video. Was a pleasure to plan and produce. So thank you too 🙏❤️
Dr. Nicoll’s commentary is such a treasure trove of understanding. I’d love to listen to an outline of his work. I know it’s rather extensive so if you’re unable to tackle the volumes of text in that collection I would totally understand…thanks for the awesome work! *new sub*
It really is extensive, and super helpful in delving deeper into the ideas. I actually created an index for his commentaries many years ago to help find the sections I would need to reference. I’ll give some thought as to how I could outline his ideas and discuss them in the future. Welcome to the channel 😀🙏
Thoroughly enjoyed this! For someone who finds it a trial sitting through long videos, I felt so relaxed, present and just enjoying the flow of ideas, information and insights coming through.
Wonderful observations from people in the comments too! 😊
May I just you whether 8.30 means am or pm - so I can work out the corresponding time in my country.
Looking forward to learning more about these remarkable works!
Many thanks!! 🎉
Glad you enjoyed the stream! We normally go live at around 8/8:30 pm UK time, although sometimes I’ll go live during the day but not as often. Hope you can make it to a live one day soon 🙏
Minute 24 suggests self observing like David Attenborough observes a wild animal. It sounds like disassociated observation or doing an out of body "spirit" observation of the body machine working.
What exactly do you mean by taking the pill? Combination of emotion, intellect and moving centres( describe this in detail pls, here)
Thanks, he is certainly a wise man he captured many of the essential things we are faced with along our journey.. So, one could comment on many things, but I will mention a couple that come to mind. On the topic of identification , I find a parallel in Carl Jung's work, where his definition of ego inflated is when one persona identifies with an archetype. He sees Nietzsche particularly. In trying to be that person of the archetype ( ie Christ), the author misses the mark rather than letting the archetype live naturally. Also, when you mentioned mid-life crisis, my thoughts reflected on Plato as a mid-wife abstracting the soul , the essence within. PS on plasma, today's world of quantum physics entertains the concept of string theory ( vibrations, fine, unseen high and low in our universe.)
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting thoughts 🙏
What is se}f remembering is it the historical self ,or and globale self, ....thanks
"aa short brief outline" as opposed to a long brief outline??
'Chief feature' is a topic of Gurdjieff work that I would love to hear you expound on further!
Hi Cindy. Welcome to the channel. I will definitely do a video expounding on chief feature! Thanks for the suggestion. 🙏
@@bookclub5291 Please let me/us know. !🤗
Shared
Much appreciated Melissa. 😀👍
I have a question. How to crystallize the astral body. And what techniques to use to achieve it. And is the fourth body a crystallized astral body or is it another body? Does self-observation create a crystallized astral body in us, or maybe a fourth body, or maybe it develops an essence in us. Please reply.
The creation of the fourth, or astral body acquires over a period of time relative to one’s effort and intensity. Have you listened to In search of the Miraculous yet? If not, then I would highly recommend looking there for you answer, and much more knowledge besides. Here is a link:
ruclips.net/p/PL0L0onrHik1vkLmBSVQ8fttdSqk2wynO9&si=E1WVx-zUQDOX4G3D
@@bookclub5291 - Thank you for your answer and best regards.
Any detailed simple explanation about triad .please refer
How to i join your sessions
Come in and introduce yourself
discord.gg/DdzpJgaN
Plato: "Let us suppose that each of us living creatures is an ingenious puppet of the Gods!"
Heraclitus: "Those who are awake all live in the same world. Those who are asleep live in their own worlds."
Papus: (after Antoine Fabre d'Olivet) the 3 factories of the human machine, intellectual, emotional & instinctive.
Thanks for sharing! 🙏
The one source of all psychological suffering is Self-forgetting: identification with the temporal/finite.
The remedy is dis-identification which is two-fold:
Self-observation exposes negative reactive patterns. Self-remembering (being aware of being aware) collapses them.
We transform our temporal caterpillar psyche (lead) into an Eternal Butterfly Soul (gold), by alchemically integrating our Heart, Mind and Will.
Integration = Integrity = Soul
When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines).
1. Affirming = potential (possibility) to be actualized (Knowledge)
2. Denying = resistance (Understanding) how to neutralize resistance
3. Reconciling = Competent application of knowledge fully understood to neutralizing resistance, thereby actualizing potential (Wisdom).
1. Absolute = Life, the All in One in All, eternally actualizing infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity.
3. Three forces
6. Food of Impressions
12. Core Self
24. Essential Self
48. Social Self, ego
96. False ego, reactive self.
where does it describe the phenomenology of the shift from personality to essence
" Gurdjieff said, “You are nothing but the body, and when the body dies you will die. Only once in a while does a person survive - one who has created soul in his life survives death - not all. A Buddha survives; a Jesus survives, but not you! You will simply die, not even a trace will be left.”
What was Gurdjieff trying to do? He was shocking you to the very roots; he was trying to take away all your consolations and foolish theories which go on helping you to postpone work upon yourself. Now, to tell people, “You don’t have any souls, you are just vegetables, just a cabbage or maybe a cauliflower” - a cauliflower is a cabbage with a college education - “but nothing more than that.” He was really a master par excellence. He was taking the very earth away from underneath your feet. He was giving you such a shock that you had to think over the whole situation: are you going to remain a cabbage? He was creating a situation around you in which you would have to seek and search for the soul, because who wants to die?
And the idea that the soul is immortal has helped people to console themselves that they are not going to die, that death is just an appearance, just a long sleep, a restful sleep, and you will be born again. Gurdjieff says, “All nonsense. This is all nonsense! Dead, you are dead forever - unless you have created the soul….”
Now see the difference: you have been told you are already a soul, and Gurdjieff changes it totally. He says, “You are not already a soul, but only an opportunity. You can use it, you can miss it.”
And I would like to tell you that Gurdjieff was just using a device. It is not true. Everybody is born with a soul. But what to do with people who have been using truths as consolations? A great master sometimes has to lie - and only a great master has the right to lie - just to pull you out of your sleep.
Gurdjieff has been much criticized because he was a liar - and the lying came from the Sufis; he was a Sufi. He was disciplined in Sufi monasteries and schools. And in the West, in fact, he introduced Sufism in this age in a totally new version. But then it was impossible for the ordinary Christian mind to understand him because truth is a value, and nobody can think that a master, an enlightened master, can lie.
Can you think of Jesus lying? And I know he lied - but Christians cannot think about it: “Jesus lying? No, he is the truest man.” But then you don’t know - the question of knowledge is very, very dangerous. He lied about many things - a master has to, if he wants to help. Otherwise, he can be a saint, but no help is possible from him. And without helping, a saint is already dead. If a saint cannot help, what is the use of his being here? There is no point in it. All that he can attain through life, he has attained. He is here to help.
Gurdjieff was very much criticized because the West couldn’t understand, the ordinary Christian mind could not understand. So there are two versions about Gurdjieff in the West. One thinks that he was a very mischievous man - not a sage at all, just a devil incarnate. Another is that he was the greatest saint the West has come to know in these past few centuries. Both are true, because he was just in the middle. He was a ‘po’ personality. You cannot say yes, you cannot say no about him. You can say that he was a holy sinner, or a sinning saint. But you cannot divide, you cannot be so simple about him. The knowledge that he had was very complex.
Gurdjieff says: Go on remembering the observer - self-remembering. Buddha says: Forget the observer just watch the observed. If you have to choose between Buddha and Gurdjieff, I suggest choosing Buddha. There is a danger with Gurdjieff that you may become too self-conscious - rather than becoming self-aware, you may become self-conscious, you may become an egoist. I have felt that in many Gurdjieff disciples, they have become very, very great egoists. Not that Gurdjieff was an egoist - he was one of the rarest enlightened men of this age; but the method has a danger in it, it is very difficult to make a distinction between self-consciousness and self-remembering. It is so subtle it is almost impossible to make the distinction; for the ignorant masses it is almost always self-consciousness that will take possession of them; it will not be self-remembering.
The very word “self” is dangerous - you become more and more settled in the idea of the self. And the idea of the self isolates you from existence.
Buddha says forget the self, because there is no self; the self is just in the grammar, in the language - it is not anything existential. You just observe the content. By observing the content, the content starts disappearing. Once the content disappears, watch your anger - and watching it, you will see it is disappearing - once the anger has disappeared there is silence. There is no self, no observer, and nothing to be observed; there is silence. This silence is brought by Vipassana, Buddha’s method of awareness.
One old woman became very much impressed by Ouspensky, and then she went to see Gurdjieff. Within just a week she was back, and she told Ouspensky, “I can feel that Gurdjieff is great, but I am not certain whether he is good or bad, whether he is evil, devilish, or a saint. I am not certain about that. He is great - that much is certain. But he may be a great devil, or a great saint - that is not certain.” And Gurdjieff behaved in such a way that he would create this impression.
Alan Watts has written about Gurdjieff and has called him a rascal saint - because sometimes he would behave like a rascal, but it was all acting and was done knowingly to avoid all those who would take unnecessary time and energy. It was done to send back those who could only work when they were certain. Only those would be allowed who could work even when they were not certain about the master, but who were certain about themselves.
And to surrender to a Gurdjieff will transform you more than surrendering to Ramana Maharshi, because Ramana Maharshi is so saintly, so simple, that surrender doesn’t mean anything. You cannot do otherwise. He is so open - just like a small child - so pure, that surrender will happen. But that surrender is happening because of Ramana Maharshi, not because of you. It is nothing as far as you are concerned. If surrender happens with Gurdjieff, then it has happened because of you, because Gurdjieff is in no way going to support it. Rather, he will create all types of hindrances. If still you surrender, that transforms you. So there is no need to be absolutely sure about him - and that is impossible - but you have to be sure about yourself."
Gurdjieff says, “All nonsense. This is all nonsense! Dead, you are dead forever - unless you have created the soul….”
So, once you have created an external observer that can watch the machine, is this evidence of creating a soul? It sounds like lucid dreaming while "working" not sleeping.
"Self- remembering" "self- observation" "self knowledge" "self- study" What's the difference?? Why the confusing jumble of terms? Clarity was not Gurdjieff's strong point, was it?
Self remembering leads to self observation which leads to self study which leads to self knowledge 😊
Most of us have enormous difficulty actually self-observing objectively for very long at all. In no time denial, boredom or auto-pilot sets in, and the ego convinces you this is normal and furthermore right. Except it is a state of delusion, actually.
Good live
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it 😊🙏
30:28
Astrology for me:)
😀👍
What qualifies you to say anything st all about Mr.Gurdjieff?
What would qualify anyone?
@@bookclub5291 about fifty tears of what is called" being "in-the-work" and an intimate acquaintanceship with those who had actually met the man, which rather disqualifies you does it not?
Why the desire to say *anything* about Giorgivanic? To quote another chap:" When the blind led the blind, they *both* fall into the ditch.
Also noy-my--own:" You may have your reasons, but God knows your motives.
Those that are searching will find without any help from mice(nothings and nobodies) like me and thee, and they do not come more micean than your servant here present that would not with the ideas on his worst enemy, but god bless him Giorgivanic has given me more by way of genuine laughter than any other, and has left me with a debit that I can never pay which is not exactly as-is-said just roses roses, but his the way of questioning, to which contemporary beings have not been as-is-said" wound up".