@bettyconaway3797 Amen. My 28 year old son 4 years ago. He loved Jesus Christ. He is with my wife his mom. I will see them again. My prayers and heart goes our to there family. I understand the painful loss. But Jesus will return. My best to all on here. God bless each of you.
Him and Hoover are my only go to guys. That's it. The professional and factual information presented... Top tier. Prayers for the family and all those affected.
Very good analysis. I’m Flightsafety trained and very current in both the legacy and NG and I fly them both professionally for a large company in a well know industry. I’ve never had the autopilot disengage in turbulence in the NG but it happens regularly in the legacy. I’ve never had any serious icing encounters at FL260 but I am rather judicious in choosing cruising altitudes. I agree that good training is a must, the PC12 is a pussycat when properly operated but it is a very complex and highly automated aircraft that requires a great deal of mastery. The high level of automation can easily lead to complacency.
I believe the AP positive G limit is only 1.8. Legacy did it all the time in moderate turbulence but I’ve never had a problem in the NG or NGX. Still you gotta be able to hand fly it, period!
My parents, along with many others were on the Bill Gaither (Gospel singers) Alaskan cruise. The Nelon’ s were en route to join the cruise to sing and entertain. Everyone just stood there in stunned silence. So sad. Thanks Juan, you always handle these with such professionalism and class.
I have never had the priviledge to meet the Nelons, but they were one of my favorite gospel singing groups. When i got married in 1987, my husband a minister and i was ask to organize a choir and as we traveled to minister at various churches i was requested to sing. I would sing songs that i listened to by the Nelons. This is heartbreaking to me, I want to extend my deepest condolences to all the Nelon family and the families of all the souls on board that parrished in the plane crash. I send my prayers to all who is hurting from this tradgety. God bless you all
Very much agree. [Me: GA native, lapsed private pilot, grew up knee-deep in Southern Gospel music] I'm fighting an inclination to write a hagiography because the Nelon (KNEE-l'n) family could reasonably be called _beloved_ in the Georgia - Nashville corridor. This is yet another case where I (and I expect many) are dumbfounded in that - at this point - it's making very little sense, speaking now strictly about aviation and related mechanical aspects of the event. I hate to speculate but I have a little voice timidly asking if get-there-itis could be involved. Finally, y'all kindly forgive my arguably goofy writing. These folks feel like friends. 💔
@@nicolasimpkins3640 Please define what you mean by "these videos". The intent and purpose of this video compared to those produced by local or national news organizations could not be more different.
@@Milkmans_Son "This morning there is a data driven video circling social media concerning the crash, PLEASE…as a husband to a grieving wife and relative to a hurting family, if you have posted it or shared it…..PLEASE remove it. The last thing any of them needs right now is a feed full of this over & over in their faces …..and make no mistake to those of you that have…that is EXACTLY what you have created Absolutely unreal" While I understand the informative nature, I can also see how watching an explanation of the plane going down would be heart wrenching. I'm not even family and it's hard to see. They aren't even 72 hours out from this tragic loss.
@@Milkmans_Son " This morning there is a data driven video circling social media concerning the crash, PLEASE…as a husband to a grieving wife and relative to a hurting family, if you have posted it or shared it…..PLEASE remove it. The last thing any of them needs right now is a feed full of this over & over in their faces …..and make no mistake to those of you that have…that is EXACTLY what you have created Absolutely unreal " I'm not even family and seeing how the plane appears to have went down is hard to watch, so I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is for family.
I knew Nathan (the son in law) from college. He was a great guy. I can only imagine what he felt in those final moments. RIP old friend. See you in Heaven.
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two separate comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What an absolute coward. It sounds like you live miserable life sitting around commenting on politics, I’m sure you are just a pleasure to be around. I’m sorry that your life is so unfulfilling and lonely.
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two separate comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What an absolute coward. It sounds like you live miserable life sitting around commenting on politics, I’m sure you are just a pleasure to be around. I’m sorry that your life is so unfulfilling and lonely.
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What a coward. I’m sorry that your miserable life is unfulfilling and lonely.
If icing was encountered, my experience with the PC-12, is that ONLY clean and prepped boots shed ice properly. The right, horizontal stabilizer boot may be subject to pinholes before the other boot portions. I have operated in icing in Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah and the Dakotas and have learned that if you encounter anything more than light icing, change altitude to get out of it. In this accident description, if the autopilot failed, were the flight displays working properly? Check the standby attitude indicator with the Primary Flight Display, then level the wings, reduce power and select gear down. Emergency descent with power at idle, gear down and nose over to Vne gives about 13,000 FPM rate of descent and the airplane is stable. Just don't practice that with the yaw damper ON, or practice a stall with it ON!! The descent is almost uncontrollable with excessive rudder forces. Hopefully, the NTSB will have some onboard data that can still be extracted from the displays? May all of these people rest in Peace!
I completely disagree with that. I used my boots and props almost every flight in the spring and fall. No issues even with heavy icing. It can handle anything but freezing precip. Not certified for any freezing rain, drizzle, fog.
@@NathanGrayW boots can be prepped with a number of things. But what he's probably talking about is called ICEX. Its a kinda slippery clear substance you can put on the boots and it helps the ice not stick to the boots It doesn't last very long though. Most of the other products are just meant to make the boots look good, such as age master, and a couple other things. There is another product that make boots look shiny but its kinda a hard candy shell. i forget the name. but Icex is what would really help in icing
I also flew for AA , like Juan and CoolHands22 ,for 32 years, 25 of those was as a Captain. Yes we can turn the autopilot and auto throttles off in IFR conditions and of course we have passengers on board. I also encouraged my FO's to turn it all off and hand fly the AC as much as they wanted to. On the 737-800 at AA we disconnected the autopilot at a 1000 feet and were required to hand fly CAT 3 approaches to a Decision Height of 50ft with a RVR of 600ft visibility at an average of 145 knots. You do the math. As far as loosing control of an iced up aircraft the airplane can still be flown it doesn't just fall out of the sky. As for the airline pilot that never turns off the autopilot well lets just say I won't be flying on his AC. Folks need to understand that when you put these license in your pocket you accept the responsibility to maintain your skill level to the highest degree for the safety of your passengers and crew. If you think this is a joke your in the wrong profession. Honor the license and the profession or find another job and save us the grief!! Ok rants overs you all fly safe and stay sharp!!
An iced up aircraft like the PC12 can fall off the sky if it encounters tailplane icing severe enough to stall the horizontal stabilizer. I note that, in this accident, Juan is far more careful to not ascribe loss of control to pilot disorientation after the autopilot disengaging than he was in the medevac flight in Nevada. The sad reality is that, without an FDR and CVR, it will be difficult to ascertain a probable cause.
I do agree with the hand flying part. Over reliance on autopilot and surprises or mistakes when it disengaged has led to fatal accidents. The worst of all could be AF447.
If the FO can keep altitude and heading within 100 ft and 5 degrees..sure...but most can't. It's either AP on or "my aircraft". Sorry, I'm not getting violated just because somebody needs to learn to hand fly.... they can grab Xplane and practice at home.
Completely heart broken over the loss of this family. My heart aches for their youngest daughter. I cannot imagine the stress and heartache to prepare funerals for her entire family. I have thought about her a lot this week following the crash. They were amazing artist and I have followed them & their amazing talent for years. Its a terrible loss for everyone.
I cannot get this tragedy off my mind and heart broken for the family left behind …question how long did it take for them to crash ..would they have been unconscious because of altitude? I pray they were. Thank you
We had some crazy weather yesterday in northern Wyoming. Yesterday morning it was hot then the wind came up and it cooled off with clouds. I live by the Big Horn mountains 68 miles west of Gillette. I read about this accident this morning on The Cowboy Daily. Condolences to the family members. Thank you Juan the the report. I was wondering what happened. You always make the reports easy to understand for us none flying people.
Good job Juan. Very sad. Hope the NTSB can use their resources to connect the dots. Lots of questions regarding icing, turbulence, proficiency and training. Thanks for putting this info together.
Similar situation to the Reno PC-12 crash. Severe turbulence, autopilot kicks off, spatial disorientation plus controls are already heavy and it can take two hands on the yoke to fly in just light turbulence.
@@GLEX234 The plane is inherently heavy on the controls. Put it in moderate to severe turbulence, yes, you will need two hands. That’s what Im talking about!
@@GLEX234not as a pussycat as someone mentioned. The autopilot will do what it has been programmed to do…..until it says “no más!!!” Then, it’s your turn in the barrel.
Juan= Thank you for covering this so promptly. As I this year celebrate my 75th year of singing Gospel music, this loss is particularly significant to me I first enjoyed the music of the Nelons (knee-luns) about 50 years ago when they were known as the Rex Nelon Singers. Rex Nelon, Kelly's father was an outstanding and awarded bass singer. Kelly went on the be a very successful alto, winning many awards. Of the dozens of songs The Nelons recorded, I always come back to "Talk To My Father" that featured Kelly. In a twist of fate, this tragedy happened as the group on this plane was headed to a Gaither Homecoming Cruise in Alaska, titled "Until We Meet Again.: Rex Nelon died in 2000 while in London, England the night before a Gaither Homecoming event. They are now gone, but their music will live in my heart as long as I live.
Obviously very sorry these folks lost their lives. But is it possible that God doesn’t like gospel singers and (like me) thinks they’re a nuisance? And what about the out-of-state registration “for tax purposes”? Pretty sure my God didn’t teach this at Sunday school.
with all due reverence, they went home to be with the Lord. It is sad for those of us left behind, but they made that trip. I sincerely hope all on board were born again saved by grace.
@@johnhopkins4920 What? Seems like a very harmless type of group, and who doesn't legally work with the tax system to not get screwed more than necessary, and now it's a ding against them? -- Jeesh! Tasteless comments IMO.
@@johnhopkins4920 they didn’t own the plane so what do the registration details have to do with them? After reading your comment, I’m reminded that I find people like you a nuisance.
Adding to my previous post, in the last year in our operation we’ve had a couple of graphics module failures and a pitch trim runaway in flight in our NGs. None of these happened to me personally but they were well discussed in our crew meetings. There are two graphics modules in the plane and each controls two displays and when one fails you need to intimately understand the operation of the display reversionary control. There is no manual trim, all trim is electrical, and a runaway is incredibly dangerous. An immediate and correct response is MANDATORY and a second set of hands can save your life. These are things we practice in the sim every six months and hope that we never experience in the real world.
A short time ago I was flying my light sport plane testing a new autopilot. When I flip a particular switch the immediate pitch up was extreme. In further testing, the autopilot almost rolled the plane on its back. Shortly after I removed the system from my plane. Since that time I have learned that, while autopilots can be great tools, they can also be very unsafe for those that don't operate them correctly. Also, it's common to use autopilots in turbulent conditions since they can generally do a better job than hand flying. But those who rely on them too much, especially in a slippery plane like the PC12, can get into serious trouble when thins start to go wrong. I think what most non-pilots don't understand is how quickly things happen. Also, specially in IMC, it can be very challenging to figure out exactly what is gong wrong before it's too late to fix it. Yes, highly proficient pilots flying these advanced aircraft can make these problems a non-issue. However, the effort and expense to truly stay proficient in these aircraft by individual owners likely results in many believing the advanced systems will save them. They may allow their flying and systems knowledge skills to lapse. And unfortunately, it's always innocent people that pay the price.
My guess is that your aircraft was out of trim when you “tested” your autopilot. Low end autopilots don’t trim themselves so when you flipped that “particular switch”, your aircraft aggressively returned to its trimmed airspeed. The aircraft in this incident had a much more advanced autopilot. You should’ve studied the manual and received some training on your autopilot before “TESTING” it. You put yourself (and any passengers) in a very dangerous situation.
A wonderful family lost. Jason Clark had survived major heart surgery, Amber almost died when she lost twin babies, and now they are all gone. Pray for Autumn, their surviving daughter as she is expecting their first baby very soon and now has to process the loss of her parents, sister and brother in law. Unimaginable loss in such a tragic way.
The upcoming heartbreaking of when she has that baby, and won't be able to share the joy and baby with her Mom. My little sister had her first baby (and my Mom's first grandchild) during covid, and with my Dad at end stage heart failure, we couldn't go see her and it made her so sad. And she REALLY wanted Mama there during the labor. Pray for this gal hard. She is going to need it
It truly does and thats why I cant get on a plane, all I see is the worlds largest paper weight falling from 30k feet , hell no , you would think I was a war pilot from the nightmares I have and im 49 and never flew, just crazy I guess
@@danielhall-wl4qlthe statistics for large commercial airplanes successfully flying and landing is better than car travel. It’s the small, personal plane stats that are literally killer.
@@catsbyondrepairI’m atheist but that’s a shitty thing to say about a tragic loss of life. Karma has a way of coming back as a boomerang. Remember to say this when your loved ones passed away.
So unfortunate. This happened in the adjacent sector to airspace I work. Rest in peace for the perished and prayers for the controllers who worked that aircraft at the end.
Another possible cause is pitch trim runaway. There has been at least one incident, reported by the Australian ATSB (report AO-2019-019) where the professional pilot of a PC12 struggled to keep the plane level, even with the help of extra muscle from a passenger, after the electric pitch trim suffered a runaway. The ATSB found that the switch to disable electric pitch trim is installed next to, and indistinguishable from, another unrelated switch. The pilot had executed the correct emergency checklist but had flipped the wrong switch. The pilot was fully occupied wrestling with the controls and was unable to look down below the console to confirm/identify the switch. This was a Royal Flying Doctor Service flight; they have a large fleet of PC12 and PC24 and the pilots are highly experienced.
We need to wait for more NTSB inputs could be a possibility of the trim or inadvertently pusher activation. I been training Pilots for long time in the NG Sim and sometimes they g got confused in to recognize the failure. But is to early to say anything. Could be WX associated who know.
First thing I did when I heard about this one was check the NOAA Storm Prediction Center. It showed that line of storms and that sounded ominous, since we’ve heard of similar losses of control in the past when encountering heavy weather. Good report Juan. Waiting to hear what your thoughts are on the most recent Nepal incident.
Thank you for this analysis. They were friends of mine and dear sweet people. As a pilot myself this is troubling in so many ways i hope we can all learn to be better pilots. Thank you so much
A couple of things stick out to me, as a low time professional PC-12 pilot (only 300 hours in type). 1. I have personally not had the autopilot on an NG kick off on me in moderate to severe turbulence. I have, however, had it kick off due to a stall indication due to wind shear. That is as designed. I generally find the autopilot on the NG to be extremely good at holding precise aircraft attitudes. So much so that it can be "over" reactive. 2. Severe icing in the PC-12 is an emergency situation. I noticed in the ADS-B altitude data that the aircraft climbed a bit before the crash. That could indicate he possibly tried to climb away from ice. 3. Trim runaway recovery in the PC-12 can be complex. The PC-12 NG has two different trim modules - one primary trim module, controlled by the pilot with a switch on the yoke, and one autopilot/alternate trim module, controlled by the autopilot or the alternate manual trim controls located on the pedestal. The circuit breakers for each of these modules are located top-forward on the CB panels, with the primary trim CB on the left side panel and the alternate trim CB on the right panel (yes, way across from the pilot and not an easy reach depending on your arm length). The CB heads on the NG are not collared from the factory for easy pulling, but they are collared from the factory on the newer NGX. The procedure for a trim runaway is thus; hold yoke away from trim direction, push the trim interrupt switch, pull the suspected failed trim CB (left or right), release trim interrupt switch and observe results. If trim continues to run away, again hold the yoke and hit the trim interrupt, then pull the opposite CB, release the interrupt and observe again. Which side to try first is kind of up to the pilot. You're trying to isolate each trim module so you can figure out which one to disable and which one is safe to continue using. That is a lot to do for a single pilot trying to figure out two potential failures while also trying to control the aircraft. I have also been told by instructors in simulator courses that if altitude becomes impossible to control, putting the airplane into a bank and letting it turn around a point gives you some measure of control while you get the trim runaway dealt with. It's possible this pilot was told the same thing. 4. The PC-12 NG has a pusher system, and the recovery from an inadvertent pusher activation at improper airspeed is similar to the trim recover, although there is only one pusher system and one pusher circuit breaker on the NG, and it is collared. Also, as far as I'm aware, every PC-12 NG has a cockpit voice recorder. There may be cockpit audio for investigators.
Mr Brown, thank you for your excellent work on this channel. I recorded Kelly and The Nelons 40+ years ago, in Nashville. This is very sad news. As another commenter pointed out, their name is pronounced "KNEE-lunz" FYI. Thanks again for your superior contributions to flight safety, sir.
The PC-12 is a fine and very capable aircraft. But I think that often people of financial means move up into one from a lesser aircraft and think that they are bullet proof.
When Amber was 12 years old, she recorded one of my songs..it was incredible. It was nominated for a DOVE award. I'll never forget the NELONS. Fantastic group.
This crash was about 40 miles from my house. We were listening to the local authorities trying to find the crash site, get to it as very rural, rough terrain and poor aerial visibility with the western fires and the smoke in the region. I was hoping you would cover this Juan thank you!
@@jimsteinway695still has one of the best safety records per recorded flying hour. They have been out since 1994 after getting FAA approval and you’re talking over 2000 PC12 sold in that time. A total in from service entry to now is about 104 fatalities or 122 depending on which source you use. With many of these being pilot error. When these are failing they are doing so due to many factors and again this is sometimes down to poor maintenance technicians poor piloting, medical emergency. Not many have inflight structural failures which you can attribute to Pilatus in my view.
Very sad situation but wanted to congratulate you on your professionalism in doing this preliminary research. I am a fan of understanding this cases and you are very through and fact based. Good job!
Sometimes news is tough yet needs to be covered. Regardless of level of ease, JB is best in the biz who has us covered--and it's not even his main biz! Hence the reason we must demand "Ed R Murrow award NOW for JB!"
Thanks for jumping out ahead of this Juan. It does certainly appear as though weather and speed might have been a factor both in the failure of the autopilot and the subsequent departure from flight. Condolences to the families of the deceased.
I have given many initial and recurrent check rides in a B200 sim for owner/operators and it's often the case that they are instrument rated/current but not instrument PROFICIENT. They never hand fly the airplane and always rely on the autopilot. As soon as I take the AP away on the check ride, they crash the sim. This is a weakness in the Part 91/135 arena and causes many crashes. Annual LOFT training would prevent many, if not most, of these crashes.
I'm curious about the fact he reported a "failure." Did it actually fail or did he confuse an automatic disconnect as a failure? It would be easy to say "well any pilot should be able to take over when it kicks off," If it kicks off because of icing, out of trim or an upset, the pilot is already behind the seriously behind the plane. unfortunate situation. Hopefully the investigation will prove fruitful for other pilots.
I've noticed in alot of these crashes with the PC-12 the pilots have come to rely on the autopilot and when it disconnects they get stuck troubleshooting the auto pilot instead of hand flying with this same result. In one crash the pilot let the plane go near inverted while testing the autopilot. When he finally decided to take action it was the wrong action he yanked back in a dive with almost identical descent numbers and broke it up ejecting some of his family.
I would guess they iced up. Flew into KAFK myself last year, Kyle who owns that FBO is a really nice guy, imagine he would have likely the last one to chat to these folks, hope it doesn’t affect him too much.
@@lancomedic it can only do so much. I think turbulence probably kicked the autopilot off so now you fighting a severely out of trim aircraft plus potentially iced up wings PLUS a cabin full of screaming passengers being slammed by g forces. Task saturation for that old pilot. They were pulling some punishing g forces in those turns. No coincidence they were fine until getting close to the weather.
@@lancomedic On the tail as well but if they failed on the tail and the ice was moderate or worse.... most pilots won't be able to recover from a tail stall. It is counter-intuitive
Juan, thanks for covering this. I was watching your channel all day to hear your initial analysis. Our church hosted them back in September. They were an awesome family to get to know. We talked with Jason for close to an hour about festivals and hosting events. You could tell the love they had for each other and for Christ. They will be missed.
Perhaps the message will get through to potential passengers who are travelling to arrive by a fixed date: a single private pilot in difficult weather is not a good combination. Go buy an airline ticket, where you get two professional pilots and full route planning support to keep you safe. That is a hard message to deliver when people have lost their lives, but learning lessons is what this is all about.
As tragic as this accident is, your comments are the important advice. As an aircraft charter (135) owner/operator of multiple aircraft for 55 years, I always find it doubly tragic when these details emerge, add that he was only carrying a third class medical and likely had not had retraining for some time. Charter services or airlines are more expensive (I assume the flight was free as he was not commercially rated and cannot accept any form of remuneration) you get a higher trained, more current medical and normally an aircraft that is maintained to a higher standard, it’s worth the extra cost to use professional aircraft services. Prayers to the family of this preventable situation.
Jonward - good point indeed. I’ve been mulling on this for a few days - they could/should have just flown commercial ATL - SeaTac it’s not as though they had to cut corners financially.
I realize from these comments that some of you have no idea what it’s like being a music artist and being on tour to many different places. There’s the freedom to leave and arrive at your convenience, w/o dealing with sold-out airline tickets, flight delays, missing your connecting flight, and all the other hassles. And if you miss part of the tour, you have to offer refunds to thousands of fans. And don’t even get me started on how baggage ‘handlers’ mess up luggage, as well as lose, damage, or destroy an important piece. There’s just no way to pack a velvet gown or leather outfit into a suitcase that’s got to fit in an overhead bin. Not to mention how many times you travel and never see these important items again. And how about having to deal with several hundred other people, most of whom are plus-sized, who spill over into your seat, have a foot in the aisle, blast their crazy music even through their headset? Yeah, I’d much rather go with a small group in a small plane with a pilot I know and trust. My favorite pilot does lots of business flights, and I trust him with life, and anyone else’s. He also happens to be my son. Yes, lots of things can happen, but I would still choose a private plane over commercial any day.
As a Wyomingite, knowing how hard it can be to drive in the wind out here, I can only imagine how much harder it is to fly a plane. God have mercy on those poor victims.
@@vincentwhite9603Someone from Wyoming. Like a Texan is from Texas, and Wisconsinite is from Wisconsin, a Michigander is from Michigan, and Washingtonian is from Washington, etc.
Another excellent video, thanks! It's quite impressive how quickly you put together all the data available on make a professional quality RUclips video presentation.
One of my biggest fears in flying, a controls issue, or any issue that renders the aircraft uncontrollable, that I can do nothing about and I am merely a passenger to the scene of the crash. It genuinely hurts to lose fellow pilots. RIP 😢
I was a passenger on a little plane like this once. We flew through a horrible storm for an hour before we landed. The plane was up and down, and side to side. I haven't flown since. That was January 3, 1982. I'm sad and shocked for the Nelon family! I've been watching them on Gaither's Homecomings for decades.
the one with the grandfather pilot and returning from baseball tournament? I just heard about that one and now this Didn't know it was the same model plane
A radio call to FSS enroute for a WX update is a prudent action on any long X-C flight. Doesn't take much time at all to get a current WX update enroute and the FSS are more than happy to assist. Use the FSS services ....your taxes are paying for the hugely helpful voice on the other end.
My own experience and a bit of research suggest several things. The terrain is mostly open grass prairie transitioning to a mixture of low hills.. Personal experience has shown storm fronts here (Wyoming plains) can be quite narrow but can go from calm conditions to heavy rain and winds very rapidly. Much faster than one would expect or anticipate. I believe Juan you are correct severe weather most likely was a major factor in this accident. Although very rural and few people, I believe responders will reach the site relatively quickly because of lack of major terrain obstacles in the area. also, major wind driven GRASS fire, not forest fire as reported (few or no trees in the area).
RIP to them all. The aircraft left my hometown airport before it stopped for fuel in Nebraska. I didn’t realize how tied to my town (Carrollton GA) these fine folks were. RIP.
I love my Garmin 500, but I also know exactly where the breaker is and it is clearly identified by a red circle indicator to help. You must always monitor your instruments and be prepared for their failure at any time.
Potentially a pitch trim runaway situation that could be associated with the initial reports of autopilot issues. Saw this countless times in the sim that if reacted too slowly the control forces are extreme and difficult to control and leads to 3000’+ fpm. The initial gain of altitude and being at FL260 you don’t have a lot of airspeed to loose before a stall. Only a single memory item for “Trim Interrupt” and then once you interrupt the trim bus the red CAS message disappears and you have to pull the circuit breaker and then return the pitch neutral with the secondary motor switch is slower. All a lot to handle by yourself all while in IMC. While ice may have played a roll I haven’t seen anything beyond the capabilities of the plane that high with “drier air” (2800 hrs PC12/NG here). Horrible situation and praying for the families.
Good report Juan Browne. Lot of bad weather in the area. I've flown through there and done a lot of work on the ground. It can be brutal. I don't think all four corners will be close by. The high tail twisting and rocking will play a roll most likely. The ability to stabilize this design is significant. We'll see. Lot going on crash wise in last few days. Several.
Don’t fly below a thunderstorm. Flying over a thunderstorm would be difficult in a small aircraft due to service ceiling restriction. Turn around or fly around allowing several miles leeway.
Here along the Front Range of Colo, in the hot days thumidity increasingly climbs though not a cloud in the sky. Then about 6- 7 PM as the direct heat decreases within 20 mins it begins to be scatterd clouds, and you can actually watch the thunderheads boiling upward towards 30,000 feet and higher, these then shade the lower air which in another 20 mins condense into pendulous grey scud and the winds start as the upward convective thunderboomers suck air in . The cloud deck drops to 1000agl feet or less and it is quite dramatic show to watch the deck swirling every whichway, and sometimes wall clouds forming with little inverted cones poking downward on the periphery attempting to become tornadoes. Then it cloudbursts with hail and rain from dime size to handball sized. If you were in small plane it that, it will just pound you to pieces. By a half hour later it has rained and hailed itself out and the skies again clear completely again by an hour after that. If you encounter this stuff flying, definitely RUN AWAY, even if in a Jumbo or these pop up beasts will eat you alive.
I certainly wouldn’t share this with anyone close to the deceased… there are some absolutely disgusting, disrespectful people that have commented on this post . Comments that contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation… all of them should be ashamed to speak of the deceased when you do not KNOW them nor do you KNOW what happened. Sickening.
@@EasonPlays I have my own channel and I have been on YT for over 15 years so you can figure that I know how to share things without offensive or disturbing content.
This was so well and respectfully done. Very fascinating to be able to grab that information and plug it in and see the beginning to end although devestating.
I’ve said it before. But I guess I’ll say it again. It’s crazy these types of aircraft are allowed to be flown single pilot. Another pilot on board and chances are very high this wouldn’t have happened. Sadly not the last time Juan will feature an aircraft like this that has taken the lives of people because only one pilot was on board. It’s such a simple risk mitigation. 2 pilots.
I was listening to scanner radio traffic while it was an active situation and someone called in to dispatch and asked that they inform NTSB that the scene had been enlarged as a piece of wreckage was found a distance away from from the crash site.
Did something initially break off the plane to cause a sudden loss of control, or did over speed due to loss of control for some other reason cause a mid air breakup? Don’t think I’d want to fly a Pilatus until NTSB comes up with a preliminary cause.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky Good point. My dad lost his teeth in the late 50's from hitting a tree in a 56 Mercury and he got a mouthful of steering wheel. It could have been worse, before collapsible columns.
Hi Juan, unfortunately I believe this is another case of a pilot who flew his plane into weather using autopilot , and when the autopilot kicked off, the plane was so far out of trim that the pilot didn’t have time to make the necessary corrections before the plane encountered structural failure. May all on board RIP, my sincere condolences to all the families.
Juan, numerous small aircraft (5-6), air crashes across the mid-west in the last week. This sure seems out of sorts. I suspect you have been made aware of them, and are no doubt at work gather all the facts on for future report. Had been waiting for your report on this incident, you didn’t disappoint. Peace to all 7-souls and their family’s. Great report, Thank you sir.
Hello Bennie, we still miss Hazel too. She and Kelly are reunited now forever. Someday we will join all of our loved ones who have gone before us. I pray you are doing okay?
I knew the Nelons. They have been coming to my church here in Ga. where they are from for years singing. Such a beautiful family and great people. So sad.
@@beckigreen Why do some Christians feel it's necessary to tell non-believers that they are going to roast in hell for all of eternity? That they are not worthy human beings if they don't abase themselves to some being that never shows himself? Because it's their beliefs, right? I make fun because there is absolutely no logic in religion, yet they act as if there is all the proof in the world. I make fun of them the same way I would make fun of someone who told me that the Easter Bunny truly does deliver eggs on one Sunday each year. Because it's preposterous. I have answered your question the best I could, as I've just got in from my church's Sunday Service, and I'm hungry. The sermon was based on Acts I 2: 40, concerning how churches are supposed to fellowship within the flock. Have a great day.
I've been watching your videos for quite awhile, never thought I'd see one about someone I knew. Nathan Kislter and I were friends in college, I got the terrible news this morning. Pray for the family please 🙏🏻
A PC12 pllot told me the biggest problem with the aircraft is runaway trim. He said the setting sticks to whatever it freezes at, you can't unfreeze AP trim, so fly manually with frozen trim.
I see a lot of criticism of the PC 12 here. I am not a pilot, but given the number of PC 12s flown by our Royal Flying Doctor Service in Australia I reckon there'd have been some incidents if they had any major problem. The RFDS flies vast distances and has 30 of them. T/O and landing might be anywhere from a gravel outback strip to the highway (yes they have landing zones marked). They are used in the most remote areas that the RFDS flies in and the RFDS has to have reliable aircraft as they are almost always single pilot.
Indeed. I’m under the local flight path here about and 3km away. They seem to have very little downtime. I’d be interested to know how much flying is done at similar altitudes as this accident flight or the sort of weather and environment that could lead to large out of trim conditions.. I have zero idea
@cpzmelbs I live in Northern Australia where there's a large RFDS base. Most of their flights are FL210 - FL250. The PC-12 starts to run out of puff above FL200 when you're running anti/de-icing equipment and still climbing. This was all coming from an ex-C441 pilot which is a genuine space shuttle of a thing so take his comments how you will! 1 thing to note is RFDS pilots have a reputation for being a cut above the rest. I don't want to speculate further than that but the fact the RFDS has an immaculate safety record despite other PC-12 operators not enjoying the same success is a testament to the aircraft in a highly trained and competent pilot's hands.
30k fpm?? is that even possible with a full throttle nose dive?? if it broke apart due to some turbulence or random structural failure would it fall at that speed?? The spiraling dive suggests disorientation in IMC maybe after a failure of the ap..things got upset and the pilot had to take over but at that point it was all out of whack. So he took over after the plane was spun into some kind of dive, was disoriented and drove it into the ground? idk..its a tragic loss tho and my prayers go out to the family and friends of those involved. Thank you for the excellent coverage.
Another very sad outcome. While we grieve for those who perished, don't forget to thank Juan for his relentless dedication to air safety education. Thank you señor Blancolirio.
Thanks for covering. I’ve known these folks a long time. Pronounced Nē-lons. Kelly’s late father Rex Nelon use to sing with the LeFevre’s, which eventually became the Nelons. Good southern folks.
Reminds me of a PC-12 crash that occured 07 JUN 2012 in Central Florida. The Pilot stated the Autopilot kicked off. He wasn't able to maintain control. 6 died. Man and wife and 4 kids. RIP..
I had long ago beginning Commercial Training set rough distances of avoidance of building cumulo nembus and even more so active thunderstorms. 10 miles from building and twenty away from thunderstorms. This proved to be a severe deferent to "I'll just take a look"....famous last words
My guess is that if it looked too bad or the storm spread too far, you'd seek an alternate route. After watching meteorologists and storm chasers cover these thunderstorms and tornadoes this summer, 60-100 mph ground winds, hail often golf ball size, likely worse higher up. But these storms can escalate fast, as well. He might not have thought it was so bad. My heart goes out to all their family and friends.
More than likely encountered moderate to severe icing or turbulence, which kicked off the autopilot. If the trim was way up or down, the airplane will have an abrupt reaction which can be difficult to quickly correct. Once the spiral started, they were doomed.
@@herkloader34 Am I correct to assume that recovery of any passengers are not possible? From what I heard- it sounds as if it either broke up in air- and I don’t know what that means for them? Or is flea straight down into the ground and high speed? I’m sorry to ask - but as someone who loved these people - I guess it’s a question I needed answered……
This intelligent explanation is posited by others above. Urge everybody wait for NTSB before casting aspersions on the hand- flying ability of the pilot.
What a terrifying way to go out. Falling all the way down from 26000’ while looking at each other knowing it’s all over it. 😢 Prayers for friends and families & RIP to all on board. 🙏🏼
@@cherylcampbell693 Why would you assume they would loose consciousness from a descent? We all know about the O2 levels above 10K. And I know how long it takes the body to feel these effects. Doing the quick math, and while falling at that velocity, they weren’t in danger of hypoxia or GLOC. I guess theres always a slim chance, but the flight tracker shows a VS that would seem to indicate they were all likely conscious until impact. Agree to disagree. 🙏🏼
Juan, there are soooooo many people in the world who can learn so much from you. Fact-based reviews and investigations aren't that difficult to conduct. Its sad how far too many people with time on their hands have an automatic propensity to jump to conclusions and/or develop theories which are completely unsupported by fact. I say all this because your work has the capacity to teach so many people how to get their investigative minds right. For that I thank you! May the families of the deceased fine solace in knowing that their lost ones are in heaven now with God.
Reminds of a PC12 accident several years ago where the problem was icing in the fuel delivery system causing the plane to become unstable. Ultimate caue was the failure to include PRIST in the fuel.
The aircraft should be controllable at cruise speed. In the Butte accident, the aircraft was controllable until the aircraft was at low speed. According to the NTSB and Pilatus the aircraft should have been controllable down to about 90 knots.
Loved this group since the 70's. I watch the daughters in the group grow up through the concerts and tv appearances. Prayers and condolences to the family and friends. (By the way, I am not trying to be smart, but it is pronounced knee-lons instead of nell-lons). Thank you for the information. You covered this very well.
I'll refer to people using the nouns/pronouns that I choose to use with my own pronunciation guide, irrespective of what the folks involved want. I'm sure Larry would have agreed with me.
@@moodsformoderns3721 If you look at the group being announce at a Southern Gospel Concert, you will hear how they pronounced their own family name no matter what your personal pronunciation guide tells you. The group was started by Rex Nelon in the 70's, so I think they knew how to pronounce their own family name.
The Nelons, pronounced Knee-luns , were dear friends of mine. I shared the stage with them quite a few times.. This is a devastating loss to the Southern Gospel community…. The terror they must have experienced is unimaginable….
My condolences & prayers to you sir and all those who knew the Nelons. Hopefully it happened so quickly there was no terror. They were possibly calm & peaceful before they went to meet Jesus.
Never know when our last day will be. Cherish each day and be kind. Tragic, heartbreaking.
Well said. ❤
@bettyconaway3797 Amen. My 28 year old son 4 years ago. He loved Jesus Christ. He is with my wife his mom. I will see them again. My prayers and heart goes our to there family. I understand the painful loss. But Jesus will return. My best to all on here. God bless each of you.
If you travel by airplane, it could be short
@@GamingWorld-jo1veespecially with general aviation and private aircraft
Well said
I support this channel because of the professionalism, accuracy and integrity. With Juan its always just the facts, no BS. Excellent video, as always.
Juan is the Anti-Dan
Agreed but on a side note, he's the 2nd guy to butcher their last name lol
@@Aaron-pu9hn What is the correct pronunciation? EDIT: Never mind. Another commenter says it's 'knee-luns'.
@@Aaron-pu9hn Don't be a boor.
Him and Hoover are my only go to guys. That's it. The professional and factual information presented... Top tier. Prayers for the family and all those affected.
Very good analysis. I’m Flightsafety trained and very current in both the legacy and NG and I fly them both professionally for a large company in a well know industry. I’ve never had the autopilot disengage in turbulence in the NG but it happens regularly in the legacy. I’ve never had any serious icing encounters at FL260 but I am rather judicious in choosing cruising altitudes. I agree that good training is a must, the PC12 is a pussycat when properly operated but it is a very complex and highly automated aircraft that requires a great deal of mastery. The high level of automation can easily lead to complacency.
I recall the series 9, in particular being terrible with the autopilot disengaging with the slightest turbulence. The NG was new when I left that job.
100% agree 👍
I believe the AP positive G limit is only 1.8. Legacy did it all the time in moderate turbulence but I’ve never had a problem in the NG or NGX. Still you gotta be able to hand fly it, period!
Bbbvvgggvvvvvvvvv
100%
RIP to those lost, thank you for covering this Juan.
My wife and I were driving Hwy 14/ 16 outside of Gillette yesterday and saw the emergency equipment rolling, wondered what happened. Now we know.
From the UK I send my full condolences to the families and loved ones of those who perished. Thank you Juan for such a compassionate review as always.
Ukraine or United Kingdom?
@@joshilini2 Ukraine is either UA or UKR depending on ISO code
Even when it is painful, this is the reliable, non-exaggerating source the the facts along with the deeper insight and care for the flying community.
My parents, along with many others were on the Bill Gaither (Gospel singers) Alaskan cruise. The Nelon’ s were en route to join the cruise to sing and entertain. Everyone just stood there in stunned silence. So sad. Thanks Juan, you always handle these with such professionalism and class.
I have never had the priviledge to meet the Nelons, but they were one of my favorite gospel singing groups. When i got married in 1987, my husband a minister and i was ask to organize a choir and as we traveled to minister at various churches i was requested to sing. I would sing songs that i listened to by the Nelons. This is heartbreaking to me, I want to extend my deepest condolences to all the Nelon family and the families of all the souls on board that parrished in the plane crash. I send my prayers to all who is hurting from this tradgety. God bless you all
Why I love Juan, you always can see right through him. The pain, frustration and compassion in his voice is palpable
Very much agree. [Me: GA native, lapsed private pilot, grew up knee-deep in Southern Gospel music] I'm fighting an inclination to write a hagiography because the Nelon (KNEE-l'n) family could reasonably be called _beloved_ in the Georgia - Nashville corridor. This is yet another case where I (and I expect many) are dumbfounded in that - at this point - it's making very little sense, speaking now strictly about aviation and related mechanical aspects of the event. I hate to speculate but I have a little voice timidly asking if get-there-itis could be involved. Finally, y'all kindly forgive my arguably goofy writing. These folks feel like friends. 💔
@@WillBravoNotEvilThe family are not happy these videos Are being made I saw. Statement from the daughters autumn husband .
@@nicolasimpkins3640 Please define what you mean by "these videos". The intent and purpose of this video compared to those produced by local or national news organizations could not be more different.
@@Milkmans_Son
"This morning there is a data driven video circling social media concerning the crash, PLEASE…as a husband to a grieving wife and relative to a hurting family, if you have posted it or shared it…..PLEASE remove it. The last thing any of them needs right now is a feed full of this over & over in their faces …..and make no mistake to those of you that have…that is EXACTLY what you have created
Absolutely unreal"
While I understand the informative nature, I can also see how watching an explanation of the plane going down would be heart wrenching. I'm not even family and it's hard to see. They aren't even 72 hours out from this tragic loss.
@@Milkmans_Son
" This morning there is a data driven video circling social media concerning the crash, PLEASE…as a husband to a grieving wife and relative to a hurting family, if you have posted it or shared it…..PLEASE remove it. The last thing any of them needs right now is a feed full of this over & over in their faces …..and make no mistake to those of you that have…that is EXACTLY what you have created
Absolutely unreal "
I'm not even family and seeing how the plane appears to have went down is hard to watch, so I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is for family.
I knew Nathan (the son in law) from college. He was a great guy. I can only imagine what he felt in those final moments. RIP old friend. See you in Heaven.
Can you tell the rest of us what you imagined?
Lol trumpets dont get heaven
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two separate comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What an absolute coward. It sounds like you live miserable life sitting around commenting on politics, I’m sure you are just a pleasure to be around. I’m sorry that your life is so unfulfilling and lonely.
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two separate comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What an absolute coward. It sounds like you live miserable life sitting around commenting on politics, I’m sure you are just a pleasure to be around. I’m sorry that your life is so unfulfilling and lonely.
@@cptbuiltk7944 really? Two comments on this video trying to disparage dead people? What a coward. I’m sorry that your miserable life is unfulfilling and lonely.
If icing was encountered, my experience with the PC-12, is that ONLY clean and prepped boots shed ice properly. The right, horizontal stabilizer boot may be subject to pinholes before the other boot portions. I have operated in icing in Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah and the Dakotas and have learned that if you encounter anything more than light icing, change altitude to get out of it. In this accident description, if the autopilot failed, were the flight displays working properly? Check the standby attitude indicator with the Primary Flight Display, then level the wings, reduce power and select gear down. Emergency descent with power at idle, gear down and nose over to Vne gives about 13,000 FPM rate of descent and the airplane is stable. Just don't practice that with the yaw damper ON, or practice a stall with it ON!! The descent is almost uncontrollable with excessive rudder forces. Hopefully, the NTSB will have some onboard data that can still be extracted from the displays? May all of these people rest in Peace!
displays dont save flight data
What do you mean clean and prepped boots? Like literally that they're free of bugs and dirt?
@@NathanGrayW No...Keept slippery with the proper lubricant..........Paul
I completely disagree with that. I used my boots and props almost every flight in the spring and fall. No issues even with heavy icing. It can handle anything but freezing precip. Not certified for any freezing rain, drizzle, fog.
@@NathanGrayW boots can be prepped with a number of things. But what he's probably talking about is called ICEX. Its a kinda slippery clear substance you can put on the boots and it helps the ice not stick to the boots It doesn't last very long though. Most of the other products are just meant to make the boots look good, such as age master, and a couple other things. There is another product that make boots look shiny but its kinda a hard candy shell. i forget the name. but Icex is what would really help in icing
I also flew for AA , like Juan and CoolHands22 ,for 32 years, 25 of those was as a Captain. Yes we can turn the autopilot and auto throttles off in IFR conditions and of course we have passengers on board. I also encouraged my FO's to turn it all off and hand fly the AC as much as they wanted to. On the 737-800 at AA we disconnected the autopilot at a 1000 feet and were required to hand fly CAT 3 approaches to a Decision Height of 50ft with a RVR of 600ft visibility at an average of 145 knots. You do the math. As far as loosing control of an iced up aircraft the airplane can still be flown it doesn't just fall out of the sky. As for the airline pilot that never turns off the autopilot well lets just say I won't be flying on his AC. Folks need to understand that when you put these license
in your pocket you accept the responsibility to maintain your skill level to the highest degree for the safety of your passengers and crew. If you think this is a joke your in the wrong profession. Honor the license and the profession or find another job and save us the grief!! Ok rants overs you all fly safe and stay sharp!!
many airlines these days, esp in Europe and Asia, do not allow pilots to hand fly the airplane.
An iced up aircraft like the PC12 can fall off the sky if it encounters tailplane icing severe enough to stall the horizontal stabilizer. I note that, in this accident, Juan is far more careful to not ascribe loss of control to pilot disorientation after the autopilot disengaging than he was in the medevac flight in Nevada. The sad reality is that, without an FDR and CVR, it will be difficult to ascertain a probable cause.
I do agree with the hand flying part. Over reliance on autopilot and surprises or mistakes when it disengaged has led to fatal accidents. The worst of all could be AF447.
If the FO can keep altitude and heading within 100 ft and 5 degrees..sure...but most can't. It's either AP on or "my aircraft". Sorry, I'm not getting violated just because somebody needs to learn to hand fly.... they can grab Xplane and practice at home.
More people should live by the ethics and morals (and discipline) found in your insight
I wish more people thought and felt like you do. ❤
Completely heart broken over the loss of this family. My heart aches for their youngest daughter. I cannot imagine the stress and heartache to prepare funerals for her entire family. I have thought about her a lot this week following the crash. They were amazing artist and I have followed them & their amazing talent for years. Its a terrible loss for everyone.
Continuing prayers
I cannot get this tragedy off my mind and heart broken for the family left behind …question how long did it take for them to crash ..would they have been unconscious because of altitude? I pray they were. Thank you
We had some crazy weather yesterday in northern Wyoming. Yesterday morning it was hot then the wind came up and it cooled off with clouds. I live by the Big Horn mountains 68 miles west of Gillette. I read about this accident this morning on The Cowboy Daily. Condolences to the family members. Thank you Juan the the report. I was wondering what happened. You always make the reports easy to understand for us none flying people.
R.I.P. to the folks lost in the crash, and sympathies to their families and friends.
Good job Juan. Very sad. Hope the NTSB can use their resources to connect the dots. Lots of questions regarding icing, turbulence, proficiency and training. Thanks for putting this info together.
Similar situation to the Reno PC-12 crash. Severe turbulence, autopilot kicks off, spatial disorientation plus controls are already heavy and it can take two hands on the yoke to fly in just light turbulence.
I believe you’re on to something there.
What are you talking about-cruise in level flight and you need two hands to fly it.
@@GLEX234 The plane is inherently heavy on the controls. Put it in moderate to severe turbulence, yes, you will need two hands. That’s what Im talking about!
@@GLEX234not as a pussycat as someone mentioned. The autopilot will do what it has been programmed to do…..until it says “no más!!!” Then, it’s your turn in the barrel.
No spatial disorientation in broad daylight.
Juan=
Thank you for covering this so promptly.
As I this year celebrate my 75th year of singing Gospel music, this loss is particularly significant to me I first enjoyed the music of the Nelons (knee-luns) about 50 years ago when they were known as the Rex Nelon Singers. Rex Nelon, Kelly's father was an outstanding and awarded
bass singer. Kelly went on the be a very successful alto, winning many awards. Of the dozens of songs The Nelons recorded, I always come back to "Talk To My Father" that featured Kelly.
In a twist of fate, this tragedy happened as the group on this plane was headed to a Gaither Homecoming Cruise in Alaska, titled "Until We Meet Again.: Rex Nelon died in 2000 while in London, England the night before a Gaither Homecoming event.
They are now gone, but their music will live in my heart as long as I live.
Obviously very sorry these folks lost their lives. But is it possible that God doesn’t like gospel singers and (like me) thinks they’re a nuisance? And what about the out-of-state registration “for tax purposes”?
Pretty sure my God didn’t teach this at Sunday school.
with all due reverence, they went home to be with the Lord. It is sad for those of us left behind, but they made that trip. I sincerely hope all on board were born again saved by grace.
@@johnhopkins4920 What? Seems like a very harmless type of group, and who doesn't legally work with the tax system to not get screwed more than necessary, and now it's a ding against them? -- Jeesh! Tasteless comments IMO.
@@johnhopkins4920 they didn’t own the plane so what do the registration details have to do with them? After reading your comment, I’m reminded that I find people like you a nuisance.
@@johnhopkins4920what a horrible comment after these people lost their lives. Shame on you
Adding to my previous post, in the last year in our operation we’ve had a couple of graphics module failures and a pitch trim runaway in flight in our NGs. None of these happened to me personally but they were well discussed in our crew meetings. There are two graphics modules in the plane and each controls two displays and when one fails you need to intimately understand the operation of the display reversionary control. There is no manual trim, all trim is electrical, and a runaway is incredibly dangerous. An immediate and correct response is MANDATORY and a second set of hands can save your life. These are things we practice in the sim every six months and hope that we never experience in the real world.
No manual trim? Wow that sounds like bad engineering.
A short time ago I was flying my light sport plane testing a new autopilot. When I flip a particular switch the immediate pitch up was extreme. In further testing, the autopilot almost rolled the plane on its back. Shortly after I removed the system from my plane. Since that time I have learned that, while autopilots can be great tools, they can also be very unsafe for those that don't operate them correctly. Also, it's common to use autopilots in turbulent conditions since they can generally do a better job than hand flying. But those who rely on them too much, especially in a slippery plane like the PC12, can get into serious trouble when thins start to go wrong. I think what most non-pilots don't understand is how quickly things happen. Also, specially in IMC, it can be very challenging to figure out exactly what is gong wrong before it's too late to fix it. Yes, highly proficient pilots flying these advanced aircraft can make these problems a non-issue. However, the effort and expense to truly stay proficient in these aircraft by individual owners likely results in many believing the advanced systems will save them. They may allow their flying and systems knowledge skills to lapse. And unfortunately, it's always innocent people that pay the price.
My guess is that your aircraft was out of trim when you “tested” your autopilot. Low end autopilots don’t trim themselves so when you flipped that “particular switch”, your aircraft aggressively returned to its trimmed airspeed. The aircraft in this incident had a much more advanced autopilot. You should’ve studied the manual and received some training on your autopilot before “TESTING” it. You put yourself (and any passengers) in a very dangerous situation.
@@justu2bnit17 Juan covered a crash caused by this situation not so long ago.
@@tomriley5790 Yes.. I remember… a tragic outcome completely preventable..
It’s highly likely that this pilot with out certs. for hauling passengers forgot to turn on the de-icing switch.
PC12 is not a slippery plane
A wonderful family lost. Jason Clark had survived major heart surgery, Amber almost died when she lost twin babies, and now they are all gone. Pray for Autumn, their surviving daughter as she is expecting their first baby very soon and now has to process the loss of her parents, sister and brother in law. Unimaginable loss in such a tragic way.
She is in my prayers, as are you, Carole. ♥
The upcoming heartbreaking of when she has that baby, and won't be able to share the joy and baby with her Mom. My little sister had her first baby (and my Mom's first grandchild) during covid, and with my Dad at end stage heart failure, we couldn't go see her and it made her so sad. And she REALLY wanted Mama there during the labor.
Pray for this gal hard. She is going to need it
Bless you Autum
Oh my goodness 😢🙏
Praying for Autumn & her family. Having joy (baby) in the midst of pain. 🙏
The terror these poor people must have endured as they lost control and spiraled down from 26K feet haunts me!
It truly does and thats why I cant get on a plane, all I see is the worlds largest paper weight falling from 30k feet , hell no , you would think I was a war pilot from the nightmares I have and im 49 and never flew, just crazy I guess
Ugh IKR
Nothing compared to where there at now hell
@@danielhall-wl4qlthe statistics for large commercial airplanes successfully flying and landing is better than car travel. It’s the small, personal plane stats that are literally killer.
@@catsbyondrepairI’m atheist but that’s a shitty thing to say about a tragic loss of life. Karma has a way of coming back as a boomerang. Remember to say this when your loved ones passed away.
Same area where I’m from. The grass fire (not forest fire) was fairly confined and they got a handle on it pretty quick.
So unfortunate. This happened in the adjacent sector to airspace I work. Rest in peace for the perished and prayers for the controllers who worked that aircraft at the end.
Another possible cause is pitch trim runaway. There has been at least one incident, reported by the Australian ATSB (report AO-2019-019) where the professional pilot of a PC12 struggled to keep the plane level, even with the help of extra muscle from a passenger, after the electric pitch trim suffered a runaway. The ATSB found that the switch to disable electric pitch trim is installed next to, and indistinguishable from, another unrelated switch. The pilot had executed the correct emergency checklist but had flipped the wrong switch. The pilot was fully occupied wrestling with the controls and was unable to look down below the console to confirm/identify the switch. This was a Royal Flying Doctor Service flight; they have a large fleet of PC12 and PC24 and the pilots are highly experienced.
Doubtful it's runaway trim because it happend in the middle of cruise flight. The flight path 100% looks like they ran into convective activity.
We need to wait for more NTSB inputs could be a possibility of the trim or inadvertently pusher activation. I been training Pilots for long time in the NG Sim and sometimes they g got confused in to recognize the failure. But is to early to say anything. Could be WX associated who know.
@@alexc5449 I have had a runaway pitch during a climb in a PC12-47. It doesn't matter what phase of flight.
I wonder if the AC had the upgraded SB for the new solid state trim relays installed.
@@alexc5449 phase of flight should not matter, the pitch trim is activated if the autopilot is activated. It could fail.
I'm from Georgia. Guys this has made a old man tear up. So sad.
First thing I did when I heard about this one was check the NOAA Storm Prediction Center. It showed that line of storms and that sounded ominous, since we’ve heard of similar losses of control in the past when encountering heavy weather.
Good report Juan. Waiting to hear what your thoughts are on the most recent Nepal incident.
Thank you for this analysis. They were friends of mine and dear sweet people. As a pilot myself this is troubling in so many ways i hope we can all learn to be better pilots. Thank you so much
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you heal quickly.
Very sorry for your loss.
So very, very sorry.
Sorry for your loss 🙏
Until it is determined what happened it is not fair to blame the pilot for anything
A couple of things stick out to me, as a low time professional PC-12 pilot (only 300 hours in type).
1. I have personally not had the autopilot on an NG kick off on me in moderate to severe turbulence. I have, however, had it kick off due to a stall indication due to wind shear. That is as designed. I generally find the autopilot on the NG to be extremely good at holding precise aircraft attitudes. So much so that it can be "over" reactive.
2. Severe icing in the PC-12 is an emergency situation. I noticed in the ADS-B altitude data that the aircraft climbed a bit before the crash. That could indicate he possibly tried to climb away from ice.
3. Trim runaway recovery in the PC-12 can be complex. The PC-12 NG has two different trim modules - one primary trim module, controlled by the pilot with a switch on the yoke, and one autopilot/alternate trim module, controlled by the autopilot or the alternate manual trim controls located on the pedestal. The circuit breakers for each of these modules are located top-forward on the CB panels, with the primary trim CB on the left side panel and the alternate trim CB on the right panel (yes, way across from the pilot and not an easy reach depending on your arm length). The CB heads on the NG are not collared from the factory for easy pulling, but they are collared from the factory on the newer NGX. The procedure for a trim runaway is thus; hold yoke away from trim direction, push the trim interrupt switch, pull the suspected failed trim CB (left or right), release trim interrupt switch and observe results. If trim continues to run away, again hold the yoke and hit the trim interrupt, then pull the opposite CB, release the interrupt and observe again. Which side to try first is kind of up to the pilot. You're trying to isolate each trim module so you can figure out which one to disable and which one is safe to continue using. That is a lot to do for a single pilot trying to figure out two potential failures while also trying to control the aircraft. I have also been told by instructors in simulator courses that if altitude becomes impossible to control, putting the airplane into a bank and letting it turn around a point gives you some measure of control while you get the trim runaway dealt with. It's possible this pilot was told the same thing.
4. The PC-12 NG has a pusher system, and the recovery from an inadvertent pusher activation at improper airspeed is similar to the trim recover, although there is only one pusher system and one pusher circuit breaker on the NG, and it is collared.
Also, as far as I'm aware, every PC-12 NG has a cockpit voice recorder. There may be cockpit audio for investigators.
Thanks for the details on operation of the aircraft. Be safe up there.
screaming interlaced with "oh sh_t ! !" ? ? ?
probably alot of wind noise at 30k fpm
Yes, we are going to need the Cockpit Audio. That should tell the story.
@@buckmurdock2500 Moronic comment.☮🙏💫
Mr Brown, thank you for your excellent work on this channel.
I recorded Kelly and The Nelons 40+ years ago, in Nashville. This is very sad news.
As another commenter pointed out, their name is pronounced "KNEE-lunz" FYI. Thanks again for your superior contributions to flight safety, sir.
I helped run sound for them in Shallotte NC in the 90s . I was introduced to Kelly she had a beautiful voice .
@@bobbybabsonjr787 Yes she did, I have followed the Nelons since a teen, my father was involved in professional singers.
Man, heard “autopilot” and I said, not again!! Juan, you do great work cutting through the chaff.
The PC-12 is a fine and very capable aircraft. But I think that often people of financial means move up into one from a lesser aircraft and think that they are bullet proof.
When Amber was 12 years old, she recorded one of my songs..it was incredible. It was nominated for a DOVE award. I'll never forget the NELONS. Fantastic group.
What’s the name of the song?
@@piknikie "Flight over troubled clouds"
@@Bertrand146thank you ❤
@@Bertrand146 Wow!! Almost prophetic!!
Thank you Juan, keep working. Our prayers and condolences to the families of the occupants.
This crash was about 40 miles from my house. We were listening to the local authorities trying to find the crash site, get to it as very rural, rough terrain and poor aerial visibility with the western fires and the smoke in the region. I was hoping you would cover this Juan thank you!
Juan is the best he covers this accidents very fast ahead of everyone
This Juan. No pun intended 😬
my family was good friends with them. Thank you for the support and prayers.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Prayers for their families and friends 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Always enjoyed working on Pilatus aircraft, PC12 in particular. Great build quality and intuitive publications
Except they crash more than any other aircraft I’ve seen lately
@@jimsteinway695still has one of the best safety records per recorded flying hour.
They have been out since 1994 after getting FAA approval and you’re talking over 2000 PC12 sold in that time.
A total in from service entry to now is about 104 fatalities or 122 depending on which source you use.
With many of these being pilot error.
When these are failing they are doing so due to many factors and again this is sometimes down to poor maintenance technicians poor piloting, medical emergency.
Not many have inflight structural failures which you can attribute to Pilatus in my view.
I own a PC11, nice plane! Love it. 😬👍
@@jimsteinway695 cause of pilot error. Not the planes fault
Thanks again, Juan, for a respectful presentation of the known facts, possible causes, but no unsupported conclusions, as usual.
Very sad situation but wanted to congratulate you on your professionalism in doing this preliminary research. I am a fan of understanding this cases and you are very through and fact based. Good job!
Sometimes news is tough yet needs to be covered. Regardless of level of ease, JB is best in the biz who has us covered--and it's not even his main biz! Hence the reason we must demand "Ed R Murrow award NOW for JB!"
Thanks for jumping out ahead of this Juan. It does certainly appear as though weather and speed might have been a factor both in the failure of the autopilot and the subsequent departure from flight. Condolences to the families of the deceased.
The autopilot did not fail. When things get hard the autopilot automatically disconnects.
I have given many initial and recurrent check rides in a B200 sim for owner/operators and it's often the case that they are instrument rated/current but not instrument PROFICIENT. They never hand fly the airplane and always rely on the autopilot. As soon as I take the AP away on the check ride, they crash the sim. This is a weakness in the Part 91/135 arena and causes many crashes. Annual LOFT training would prevent many, if not most, of these crashes.
I'm curious about the fact he reported a "failure." Did it actually fail or did he confuse an automatic disconnect as a failure? It would be easy to say "well any pilot should be able to take over when it kicks off," If it kicks off because of icing, out of trim or an upset, the pilot is already behind the seriously behind the plane. unfortunate situation. Hopefully the investigation will prove fruitful for other pilots.
I've noticed in alot of these crashes with the PC-12 the pilots have come to rely on the autopilot and when it disconnects they get stuck troubleshooting the auto pilot instead of hand flying with this same result. In one crash the pilot let the plane go near inverted while testing the autopilot. When he finally decided to take action it was the wrong action he yanked back in a dive with almost identical descent numbers and broke it up ejecting some of his family.
Your right he was used to the auto pilot and didnt use the skills to safely land the plane.
I would guess they iced up. Flew into KAFK myself last year, Kyle who owns that FBO is a really nice guy, imagine he would have likely the last one to chat to these folks, hope it doesn’t affect him too much.
Quite possibly but the ac was equipped with de-ice boots on the wings and prop.
@@lancomedic it can only do so much. I think turbulence probably kicked the autopilot off so now you fighting a severely out of trim aircraft plus potentially iced up wings PLUS a cabin full of screaming passengers being slammed by g forces. Task saturation for that old pilot. They were pulling some punishing g forces in those turns. No coincidence they were fine until getting close to the weather.
@@lancomedic On the tail as well but if they failed on the tail and the ice was moderate or worse.... most pilots won't be able to recover from a tail stall. It is counter-intuitive
Zero ice reports in the area... Stop making excuses for incompetent gifting bible bangers.
@@lancomedic”My plane won’t crash, it cost $9 million!” 😔
Juan, thanks for covering this. I was watching your channel all day to hear your initial analysis.
Our church hosted them back in September. They were an awesome family to get to know. We talked with Jason for close to an hour about festivals and hosting events. You could tell the love they had for each other and for Christ. They will be missed.
My prayers and condolences go out to their daughter and famlies. 🙏
Perhaps the message will get through to potential passengers who are travelling to arrive by a fixed date: a single private pilot in difficult weather is not a good combination. Go buy an airline ticket, where you get two professional pilots and full route planning support to keep you safe. That is a hard message to deliver when people have lost their lives, but learning lessons is what this is all about.
Well said. Juan delivers that message clearly. I hope more people listen and learn.
As tragic as this accident is, your comments are the important advice. As an aircraft charter (135) owner/operator of multiple aircraft for 55 years, I always find it doubly tragic when these details emerge, add that he was only carrying a third class medical and likely had not had retraining for some time. Charter services or airlines are more expensive (I assume the flight was free as he was not commercially rated and cannot accept any form of remuneration) you get a higher trained, more current medical and normally an aircraft that is maintained to a higher standard, it’s worth the extra cost to use professional aircraft services. Prayers to the family of this preventable situation.
As an aircraft dispatcher for a major airline for 42 1/2 years, I couldn't agree more.
Jonward - good point indeed. I’ve been mulling on this for a few days - they could/should have just flown commercial ATL - SeaTac it’s not as though they had to cut corners financially.
I realize from these comments that some of you have no idea what it’s like being a music artist and being on tour to many different places. There’s the freedom to leave and arrive at your convenience, w/o dealing with sold-out airline tickets, flight delays, missing your connecting flight, and all the other hassles. And if you miss part of the tour, you have to offer refunds to thousands of fans. And don’t even get me started on how baggage ‘handlers’ mess up luggage, as well as lose, damage, or destroy an important piece. There’s just no way to pack a velvet gown or leather outfit into a suitcase that’s got to fit in an overhead bin. Not to mention how many times you travel and never see these important items again. And how about having to deal with several hundred other people, most of whom are plus-sized, who spill over into your seat, have a foot in the aisle, blast their crazy music even through their headset? Yeah, I’d much rather go with a small group in a small plane with a pilot I know and trust. My favorite pilot does lots of business flights, and I trust him with life, and anyone else’s. He also happens to be my son. Yes, lots of things can happen, but I would still choose a private plane over commercial any day.
As a Wyomingite, knowing how hard it can be to drive in the wind out here, I can only imagine how much harder it is to fly a plane. God have mercy on those poor victims.
What the f is a wyomingite 😭🤦🏻♂️🤣
@@vincentwhite9603 !language @vincent - !language
@@vincentwhite9603Someone from Wyoming. Like a Texan is from Texas, and Wisconsinite is from Wisconsin, a Michigander is from Michigan, and Washingtonian is from Washington, etc.
Another excellent video, thanks! It's quite impressive how quickly you put together all the data available on make a professional quality RUclips video presentation.
One of my biggest fears in flying, a controls issue, or any issue that renders the aircraft uncontrollable, that I can do nothing about and I am merely a passenger to the scene of the crash.
It genuinely hurts to lose fellow pilots. RIP 😢
And why cirrus is popular- the BRS .
I was a passenger on a little plane like this once. We flew through a horrible storm for an hour before we landed. The plane was up and down, and side to side. I haven't flown since. That was January 3, 1982. I'm sad and shocked for the Nelon family! I've been watching them on Gaither's Homecomings for decades.
The plane you were on should be renamed The Minnow.
Eerily similar to the PA46 lost near my home in New York State June 30. Family of 5, elderly private pilot in an isolated storm. Terrible.
Also a Georgia family I believe. So much loss.
@@kerrynight3271Bramlage. ERA12FA385
the one with the grandfather pilot and returning from baseball tournament? I just heard about that one and now this Didn't know it was the same model plane
A radio call to FSS enroute for a WX update is a prudent action on any long X-C flight. Doesn't take much time at all to get a current WX update enroute and the FSS are more than happy to assist. Use the FSS services ....your taxes are paying for the hugely helpful voice on the other end.
My own experience and a bit of research suggest several things. The terrain is mostly open grass prairie transitioning to a mixture of low hills.. Personal experience has shown storm fronts here (Wyoming plains) can be quite narrow but can go from calm conditions to heavy rain and winds very rapidly. Much faster than one would expect or anticipate. I believe Juan you are correct severe weather most likely was a major factor in this accident. Although very rural and few people, I believe responders will reach the site relatively quickly because of lack of major terrain obstacles in the area. also, major wind driven GRASS fire, not forest fire as reported (few or no trees in the area).
RIP to them all. The aircraft left my hometown airport before it stopped for fuel in Nebraska. I didn’t realize how tied to my town (Carrollton GA) these fine folks were. RIP.
I love my Garmin 500, but I also know exactly where the breaker is and it is clearly identified by a red circle indicator to help. You must always monitor your instruments and be prepared for their failure at any time.
ty, jb...hoping it's not a case of the pilot failng to anticipate and handle weather conditions
Great video as always. Any take on what happened with that CRJ 200 crash on takeoff in Nepal?
Potentially a pitch trim runaway situation that could be associated with the initial reports of autopilot issues. Saw this countless times in the sim that if reacted too slowly the control forces are extreme and difficult to control and leads to 3000’+ fpm. The initial gain of altitude and being at FL260 you don’t have a lot of airspeed to loose before a stall. Only a single memory item for “Trim Interrupt” and then once you interrupt the trim bus the red CAS message disappears and you have to pull the circuit breaker and then return the pitch neutral with the secondary motor switch is slower. All a lot to handle by yourself all while in IMC. While ice may have played a roll I haven’t seen anything beyond the capabilities of the plane that high with “drier air” (2800 hrs PC12/NG here). Horrible situation and praying for the families.
Wow ! That last minute must have been horrific for all involved.
They probably said: "don't worry, God will get us through this"
I saw a mention of the Nelon family being lost. Sad to hear about the plane accident.
Good report Juan Browne. Lot of bad weather in the area. I've flown through there and done a lot of work on the ground. It can be brutal. I don't think all four corners will be close by. The high tail twisting and rocking will play a roll most likely. The ability to stabilize this design is significant. We'll see. Lot going on crash wise in last few days. Several.
Don’t fly through thunder storms in a small plane…go over, below, around or down a 180 and get away and on the ground asap and have a cup of tea.
Don’t fly through thunderstorms in any aircraft, large or small.
Don’t fly below a thunderstorm. Flying over a thunderstorm would be difficult in a small aircraft due to service ceiling restriction. Turn around or fly around allowing several miles leeway.
Here along the Front Range of Colo, in the hot days thumidity increasingly climbs though not a cloud in the sky. Then about 6- 7 PM as the direct heat decreases within 20 mins it begins to be scatterd clouds, and you can actually watch the thunderheads boiling upward towards 30,000 feet and higher, these then shade the lower air which in another 20 mins condense into pendulous grey scud and the winds start as the upward convective thunderboomers suck air in . The cloud deck drops to 1000agl feet or less and it is quite dramatic show to watch the deck swirling every whichway, and sometimes wall clouds forming with little inverted cones poking downward on the periphery attempting to become tornadoes. Then it cloudbursts with hail and rain from dime size to handball sized. If you were in small plane it that, it will just pound you to pieces. By a half hour later it has rained and hailed itself out and the skies again clear completely again by an hour after that. If you encounter this stuff flying, definitely RUN AWAY, even if in a Jumbo or these pop up beasts will eat you alive.
Rule is to stay 20 miles away from them regardless of your position end of story!!!
@@caribbaviator7058 I make it 50 miles.
Thank you for posting this so quickly Juan. I will share the link with some of the friends of the family.
I certainly wouldn’t share this with anyone close to the deceased… there are some absolutely disgusting, disrespectful people that have commented on this post . Comments that contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation… all of them should be ashamed to speak of the deceased when you do not KNOW them nor do you KNOW what happened. Sickening.
@@EasonPlays I have my own channel and I have been on YT for over 15 years so you can figure that I know how to share things without offensive or disturbing content.
They apparently don't want to see it. (Read thread.)
This was so well and respectfully done. Very fascinating to be able to grab that information and plug it in and see the beginning to end although devestating.
I’ve said it before. But I guess I’ll say it again. It’s crazy these types of aircraft are allowed to be flown single pilot. Another pilot on board and chances are very high this wouldn’t have happened.
Sadly not the last time Juan will feature an aircraft like this that has taken the lives of people because only one pilot was on board.
It’s such a simple risk mitigation. 2 pilots.
I was listening to scanner radio traffic while it was an active situation and someone called in to dispatch and asked that they inform NTSB that the scene had been enlarged as a piece of wreckage was found a distance away from from the crash site.
Did something initially break off the plane to cause a sudden loss of control, or did over speed due to loss of control for some other reason cause a mid air breakup? Don’t think I’d want to fly a Pilatus until NTSB comes up with a preliminary cause.
@@gwiyomikim5988 Yet to be determined. There are a lot of Pilatus aircraft flying. If you avoid everything that people have crashed you'd be grounded.
@@cageordie To quote an old sitcom, "nobody ever fell 40 thousand feet out of a DeSoto"
@@bills6093 Just impaled by the steering column.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky Good point. My dad lost his teeth in the late 50's from hitting a tree in a 56 Mercury and he got a mouthful of steering wheel. It could have been worse, before collapsible columns.
🦘🇦🇺 Thank you Juan. So very sad. Condolences to family, friends & colleagues. 🙏
Love your videos. Very easy for a non pilot understand.
Condolences to the family and friends
Absolutely tragic. Condolences to family and friends.
Hi Juan, unfortunately I believe this is another case of a pilot who flew his plane into weather using autopilot , and when the autopilot kicked off, the plane was so far out of trim that the pilot didn’t have time to make the necessary corrections before the plane encountered structural failure. May all on board RIP, my sincere condolences to all the families.
That is an awesome bit tof coverage and analysis. Very impressed. RIP those lost
Juan, numerous small aircraft (5-6), air crashes across the mid-west in the last week. This sure seems out of sorts. I suspect you have been made aware of them, and are no doubt at work gather all the facts on for future report. Had been waiting for your report on this incident, you didn’t disappoint. Peace to all 7-souls and their family’s.
Great report,
Thank you sir.
@Greg-xy4xj naw, the crashes I am referring to were commercial, and private commuter types.
I’m so sorry for the tragic loss. My wife (passed away in 2021), Hazel Fowler Johnson and Kelly were friends during their teen years.
So sorry for your losses. Prayers
I pray for all of us❤❤❤😂❤
Hazel, Kelly, & Steve, together again.
Hello Bennie, we still miss Hazel too. She and Kelly are reunited now forever. Someday we will join all of our loved ones who have gone before us. I pray you are doing okay?
I knew the Nelons. They have been coming to my church here in Ga. where they are from for years singing. Such a beautiful family and great people. So sad.
@@bluejay313on point, bluejay
@@audengrumet3985 It's a good thing they had their faith. I'm sure that kept them from screaming all the way down.
@@bradjohnson482If you don’t believe in God, that’s your choice, but why make fun of people that do?
@@beckigreen Why do some Christians feel it's necessary to tell non-believers that they are going to roast in hell for all of eternity? That they are not worthy human beings if they don't abase themselves to some being that never shows himself? Because it's their beliefs, right? I make fun because there is absolutely no logic in religion, yet they act as if there is all the proof in the world. I make fun of them the same way I would make fun of someone who told me that the Easter Bunny truly does deliver eggs on one Sunday each year. Because it's preposterous. I have answered your question the best I could, as I've just got in from my church's Sunday Service, and I'm hungry. The sermon was based on Acts I 2: 40, concerning how churches are supposed to fellowship within the flock. Have a great day.
@@audengrumet3985how sad to be such a miserable person to make hateful comments about these tragic deaths.
I've been watching your videos for quite awhile, never thought I'd see one about someone I knew. Nathan Kislter and I were friends in college, I got the terrible news this morning. Pray for the family please 🙏🏻
🙏
🙏🙏
What is praying for the family going to do?
@@audengrumet3985Gobaway !
@@audengrumet3985 go away
A PC12 pllot told me the biggest problem with the aircraft is runaway trim. He said the setting sticks to whatever it freezes at, you can't unfreeze AP trim, so fly manually with frozen trim.
I see a lot of criticism of the PC 12 here. I am not a pilot, but given the number of PC 12s flown by our Royal Flying Doctor Service in Australia I reckon there'd have been some incidents if they had any major problem. The RFDS flies vast distances and has 30 of them. T/O and landing might be anywhere from a gravel outback strip to the highway (yes they have landing zones marked). They are used in the most remote areas that the RFDS flies in and the RFDS has to have reliable aircraft as they are almost always single pilot.
I remember the Aust. TV show "Flying Doctor" back i nthe sixties??? I thought Canada had remote access issues!!!
Indeed. I’m under the local flight path here about and 3km away. They seem to have very little downtime. I’d be interested to know how much flying is done at similar altitudes as this accident flight or the sort of weather and environment that could lead to large out of trim conditions..
I have zero idea
They have poor stall characteristics, but that's why they have a stick pusher.
@cpzmelbs I live in Northern Australia where there's a large RFDS base. Most of their flights are FL210 - FL250. The PC-12 starts to run out of puff above FL200 when you're running anti/de-icing equipment and still climbing. This was all coming from an ex-C441 pilot which is a genuine space shuttle of a thing so take his comments how you will! 1 thing to note is RFDS pilots have a reputation for being a cut above the rest. I don't want to speculate further than that but the fact the RFDS has an immaculate safety record despite other PC-12 operators not enjoying the same success is a testament to the aircraft in a highly trained and competent pilot's hands.
30k fpm?? is that even possible with a full throttle nose dive?? if it broke apart due to some turbulence or random structural failure would it fall at that speed?? The spiraling dive suggests disorientation in IMC maybe after a failure of the ap..things got upset and the pilot had to take over but at that point it was all out of whack. So he took over after the plane was spun into some kind of dive, was disoriented and drove it into the ground? idk..its a tragic loss tho and my prayers go out to the family and friends of those involved. Thank you for the excellent coverage.
Another very sad outcome. While we grieve for those who perished, don't forget to thank Juan for his relentless dedication to air safety education. Thank you señor Blancolirio.
Thanks for covering. I’ve known these folks a long time. Pronounced Nē-lons. Kelly’s late father Rex Nelon use to sing with the LeFevre’s, which eventually became the Nelons. Good southern folks.
Our prayers are with you and the families involved Eric and I pray they are somehow able to find some form of comfort from this horrible situation.
Good southern folks is an oxymoron
Take your bs somewhere else. You are the ignorant divisive person you pretend not to be. Go on.
@@cptbuiltk7944 Why's that?
@cptbuiltk7944 "They are fine people - on _both_ sides." We are not going back. 💙
Reminds me of a PC-12 crash that occured 07 JUN 2012 in Central Florida. The Pilot stated the Autopilot kicked off. He wasn't able to maintain control. 6 died. Man and wife and 4 kids. RIP..
Thank you for this important report. We loved and cared about these people who are no longer with us. 😢
I had long ago beginning Commercial Training set rough distances of avoidance of building cumulo nembus and even more so active thunderstorms. 10 miles from building and twenty away from thunderstorms. This proved to be a severe deferent to "I'll just take a look"....famous last words
2:00 doesn't look like any way around the weather except a U-turn.
My guess is that if it looked too bad or the storm spread too far, you'd seek an alternate route.
After watching meteorologists and storm chasers cover these thunderstorms and tornadoes this summer, 60-100 mph ground winds, hail often golf ball size, likely worse higher up. But these storms can escalate fast, as well. He might not have thought it was so bad.
My heart goes out to all their family and friends.
Tragic. So sad. RIP. Thanks for the report Juan.
More than likely encountered moderate to severe icing or turbulence, which kicked off the autopilot. If the trim was way up or down, the airplane will have an abrupt reaction which can be difficult to quickly correct. Once the spiral started, they were doomed.
Which is why you pay attention to the trim condition before this happens. You’re not a passenger sitting in the left seat.
💔💔💔 my poor friends on this plane. This breaks my heart to hear they experienced this horror on this flight ….
@@herkloader34 Am I correct to assume that recovery of any passengers are not possible? From what I heard- it sounds as if it either broke up in air- and I don’t know what that means for them? Or is flea straight down into the ground and high speed? I’m sorry to ask - but as someone who loved these people - I guess it’s a question I needed answered……
This intelligent explanation is posited by others above. Urge everybody wait for NTSB before casting aspersions on the hand- flying ability of the pilot.
@@sd4857So sorry for your loss.
Thank you, please keep us posted if you get any updates. Nathan was a friend of ours.
You perform an honorable task, Juan. Difficult as that may be.
That must have broken up in flight, the question is did anything break off before the upset or was it intact when this event happened?
There’s a lot of sad locals here who know this family. It’s a huge loss.
Here?
@@audengrumet3985Around Carrollton Ga and Atlanta areas
@@audengrumet3985here is world wide. The influence of all the people onboard is wherever anyone is that have been touched but each individual.
@@audengrumet3985 Here, a location....Hear, perceive with the ear a sound
What a terrifying way to go out. Falling all the way down from 26000’ while looking at each other knowing it’s all over it. 😢 Prayers for friends and families & RIP to all on board. 🙏🏼
Seeing the ground rush was probably like being at a Grateful Dead concert in '69
As soon as you start that kind of fast descent, you lose consciousness so they prob never knew what happened.
@@cherylcampbell693 As a friend and fan of these great people, that has been my prayer!!
@@cherylcampbell693 Why would you assume they would loose consciousness from a descent? We all know about the O2 levels above 10K. And I know how long it takes the body to feel these effects. Doing the quick math, and while falling at that velocity, they weren’t in danger of hypoxia or GLOC. I guess theres always a slim chance, but the flight tracker shows a VS that would seem to indicate they were all likely conscious until impact. Agree to disagree. 🙏🏼
Juan, there are soooooo many people in the world who can learn so much from you. Fact-based reviews and investigations aren't that difficult to conduct. Its sad how far too many people with time on their hands have an automatic propensity to jump to conclusions and/or develop theories which are completely unsupported by fact. I say all this because your work has the capacity to teach so many people how to get their investigative minds right. For that I thank you!
May the families of the deceased fine solace in knowing that their lost ones are in heaven now with God.
Reminds of a PC12 accident several years ago where the problem was icing in the fuel delivery system causing the plane to become unstable. Ultimate caue was the failure to include PRIST in the fuel.
The aircraft should be controllable at cruise speed. In the Butte accident, the aircraft was controllable until the aircraft was at low speed. According to the NTSB and Pilatus the aircraft should have been controllable down to about 90 knots.
Loved this group since the 70's. I watch the daughters in the group grow up through the concerts and tv appearances. Prayers and condolences to the family and friends. (By the way, I am not trying to be smart, but it is pronounced knee-lons instead of nell-lons). Thank you for the information. You covered this very well.
I'll refer to people using the nouns/pronouns that I choose to use with my own pronunciation guide, irrespective of what the folks involved want.
I'm sure Larry would have agreed with me.
@@moodsformoderns3721 If you look at the group being announce at a Southern Gospel Concert, you will hear how they pronounced their own family name no matter what your personal pronunciation guide tells you. The group was started by Rex Nelon in the 70's, so I think they knew how to pronounce their own family name.
Then you should respect what the family have said regarding videos like this they are not happy I saw a statement from autumn husband
@@nicolasimpkins3640 I haven't seen the statement, but you are also watching and commenting on this video.
The Nelons, pronounced Knee-luns , were dear friends of mine. I shared the stage with them quite a few times.. This is a devastating loss to the Southern Gospel community…. The terror they must have experienced is unimaginable….
Praying for all the families and friends
My condolences & prayers to you sir and all those who knew the Nelons. Hopefully it happened so quickly there was no terror. They were possibly calm & peaceful before they went to meet Jesus.
@@peterbee129you mean met Satan they were rich bro they have deceived Men but the didn't deceived god
Omg! Sounds like a terrifying last moments of life! Prayers for the victims and their families. 🙏🙏
So sad. I knew Juan would be covering thanks. Been waiting.... Thanks Juan!
Amazing the detailed data so quick. Cool putting flight path on google earth graphically