The Crosby is the ABSOLUTE worst player to purchase. It is the equivalent to the old sapphire needle players you could carry around with the handle when I was 10 years old. Circa 1979. Caveat Emptor.
Good used SL-1200 Mk. IIIs can sell for $350-400, and Mk. Vs for $450-500. Either one will sound much better than an Audio-Technica LP-120, and Technics still builds this model so if anything does go wrong, you can still get parts.
+Martin Tousignant the new AT'S are built with the same schematics as a SL-1200. In 2009 the 25 year patent Technics held for the SL-1200 expired. That's why Audio Technical started producing them. And Technics stopped making the SL-1200 series.
Wrong on both counts. Technics currently produces SL-1200Gs for sale worldwide, and even if AT uses the same schematics, they don't use nearly the same quality control standards.
Over the last 50 years, I've owned/used both belt drive and direct drive tables. I have found the biggest differences in real use to be that the belt drive tables require much more user maintenance, mainly keeping the belt and its contact surfaces clean. In a quality table, speed differences, if any, are trivial. The belt drive if neglected can introduce wow and flutter; by comparison, direct drive systems are generally sealed and of no or low maintenance. The advantage of the belt drive: (1) much cheaper to build to a high performance point; and (2) all else equal, tend to have lower rumble than direct drive. In a quality table, any rumble differential tends to favor the belt drive technically, but the absolute levels are so low as to make no practical difference. Note: overall, I think the cheapest path to high quality table to start out is to buy a used table from the 1970s or 80s, say Pioneer PL-518 (direct drive), and have a shop service it, then add a new quality cartridge, Nagaoka MP-110. $225 - 275 total is very feasible.
I just got my first turntable and thanks to you and your videos I picked up an audio technica lp120. I appreciate your opinions and information as I start this new hobby of collecting vinyl
After a bit of research, I think the Nagaoka MP-100 or MP-110 is a good choice for a cartridge upgrade ($90 - 130). I think direct drive is the way to go for the entry level audiophile, based on the price point. I know you can buy a good direct drive turntable for around $200 - 300, but I have often heard bad things about belt drive turntables in the same price range. Many of the cheaper ones run fast or slow, based on one thing or another.
I currently have a Project Essential 2 belt driven turntable, it's running through the phono stage of a pioneer A10 amp with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220's bi-wired. By no means a high end setup, but so far I've been happy with the sound. I guess what I'm asking is what advantages does switching to a direct drive model have in terms of sound quality, and with a setup like mine would I even perceive any changes in quality vs the Project Essential 2?
Hybird Theory and Meteora were BIG parts of my middle school and high school years. Hearing about Chester's passing was CRUSHING. Rushed out and picked up Meteora and am still trying to track down Hybrid Theory
I just got a CDC8003, it’s an 80s era Japanese direct drive TT. Loving it so far, the on board strobe makes timing adjustment really easy. The rest of my setup is fairly low end at this stage though so I cant really comment as to the impact the motor is having on overall sound but i think it’s a good start. It’s definitely better than my first tt.
I like the direct drive, I have a vintage Technics 1300, I looked it up, made in 74, it said it was the auto home version of the 1200. I also have a Yamaha, vintage direct drive, and a Cec direct drive, but I like more the belt drive, Thorens, high end and other belt drives, I also like the idler, rim drive turntables, Dual 1229, Bsr-Mcdonald 810-transcriptor, the direct drives sound more scratchy to me, I hear more noise. The cartridge and stylus you choose will really make the difference, and yes speakers and amp as well as setup. I really Enjoy Watching your work, "Vinyl Eyezz", your Awesome Bro
The first half decent turntable I bought was a belt driven Rega Planar 1. I loved the way it looked and the sound quality was great, but it ran a little fast. I took it back to the store and they said "no you must be wrong. We sell hundreds of these and never had a complaint". Then they strobe tested my turntable and their display one. Both were running fast. I can only imagine that their other customers don't pay attention when listening to their music. I ended up swapping it for an Audio Technica LP120 and it was the best decision I could have made. No more worries with fine speed control and it sounds amazing.
I have two turntables in my system: The older one is a Thorens TD-124 with an SME 3009 Series 2 tonearm. This setup is about 52 years old. It is a belt and idler rim drive: The motor shaft, by means of a belt, turns an intermediate 4 stepped pulley (for the 4 speeds) which in turn drives a rubber tired idler driving the inner rim of the turntable. My "newer" turntable is the Technics SL-110 two-speed direct drive (about 40 years old) with an SME 3009 Series 2 improved tonearm meaning it has a non-detachable headshell to reduce mass. Both turntables have strobes and fine speed adjustment. The direct drive unit is definitely the quieter running of the two, having no detectable rumble. I made it a point to have a vial of Technics synthetic oil which I have used to lubricate both turntables on a couple of occasions.
Belt drive turntables became popular shortly after the introduction of direct drive (mainly Technics) turntables. The claims that belt-driven turntables were superior was based on the idea that direct drive turntables, having the motor as part of the turntable, were for that reason, inherently prone to rumble, ignoring the fact that a well designed direct drive motor was actually less prone to rumble than a belt or idler driven turntable having a high speed motor on the same chassis and thus being actually more prone to produce vibrations that were within the audible range. The reality is that these smaller manufacturers were not in a position to design and manufacture their own direct drive motors (or buy them from Panasonic) so they simply claimed that a belt-driven (and less expensive) design was somehow superior in performance to a direct drive. A well designed and manufactured direct drive turntable has a typical rumble specification of -70 db which is very hard to beat and nearly perfect speed accuracy.
In the 1970s and 80s we had a Technics SL-1900 turntable. Its heavy platter was part of the motor itself, so there was no rumble -- the permanent magnets were all glued to the central part of the platter. Lately, though, my TT has been a mid-80s Luxman PD284. The solid-state motor appears to be a pulse-type digital affair, and it has no moving parts until you place the very heavy platter onto the spindle. Then, the platter rotates and it is even more consistently accurate than was the old Technics. This Luxman is also the quietest turntable I have ever had. Less noise than any belt drive or rim-disc drive or DD that I have ever had. Dead-silent and no discernible wow/flutter. Amazing deck.
I've got a Pro-Jett debut carbon that I recently upgraded with an Ortofon blue cartridge. Sound is the best I've ever had. Couldn't be happier and have never experienced any "slippage" with the belt.
Jordan Iverson don't throw away your belt drive,use them side by side (if possible) for a while and determine wich you might love more! one might sound better then the other because of different internal components ,enjoy your new deck !
Jordan Iverson could you maybe come back and give your honest opinion after a while? I'd like as many opinions before going and spending good money on a turntable
No brainer for me. I had a bunch of turntables over the years in college, but since I acquired my Pioneer PL540 back in the '70s, I haven't looked back. Periodic maintenance about once a year, and it is still going strong with zero issues. The only thing I've had to replace is the stylus. Not bad for an automatic turntable with all the bells and whistles and direct drive that's about 45 years old.
My first five turntables were neither direct drive nor belt drive, but idler wheel drive and to be honest several of those sounded better than the LP60 belt drive I have now. I haven't listened to my direct drive yet as I am waiting for some other accessories for it before I bother to hook it up, such as a white acrylic "mat" and a 78 cartridge. In any event I'll still be keeping my idler wheel drive player for when I want to just listen to a stack of albums with no interruptions to manually change the records.
Personally I'd go with the direct drive, to avoid inaccurate speed. I feel that If you're gonna be that OCD over sound clarity than you might as well listen to digital ultra high quality lossless music through diamond HDMI cables or something.
A lot of higher end belt drive turntables have external power supplies to regulate speed control (And like someone else pointed out, speed differences are mostly trivial). Also most people that listen to vinyl like it for the way it sounds compared to digital. Having high fidelity sound and vinyl aren't mutually exclusive things...
You can't really repair them on your own. There are machines to fix warped vinyls but they are really expensive. However, some record stores or HIFI stores have these machines and you can pay them to fix your warped records.
Lovin' these vids dude. Very informative and fun to watch. I recently started collecting records again after I got a Pioneer PL-S40 for $45. IT's an old turntable from the 80s but it sounds much better than that $45 Jensen one I bought over a year and a half ago. Keep on truckin'!
Another factor is that direct drive is usually more reliable because there are less moving parts that can fail, but - and this is a big but - when direct drive turntables fail they are often more complicated/expensive to repair because the electronics that runs the direct drive motor is more complicated. (My turntable is a direct drive Technics)
I'm not trying to discredit your show. However if something is not totally correct, I have to say something. You really have the face and voice to do video. Also, I love the hand expressions in each show. You sell it very well!!
I have both a direct drive and belt drive the sound coming out of them is fine to me I always liked direct drive cause of issue with belt slipping ,and when cleaning records on turntable just the slightest pressure on belt drive it stops the platter from turning I feel you cannot clean record as good cause of the way it slows down,and I am not putting too much pressure on it it has to be very very lite so you got to make sure your records are not that dirty, I've always kept my records clean but when buying used records some have finger prints and you need to put more pressure to clean ,you could buy cleaning machines that clean the records but they are too expensive if you are on a tight budget,
I'm a fan of vintage direct drive units from the giants of the "turntable wars" of the late 1970s (Technics, Pioneer, Sony, etc.). WOW/flutter and signal to noise ratio specs that blow today's similarly priced turntables ($100-500) away.
From personal experience, I prefer direct drive turntables. I used to own an Audio Technica AT-LP60, but the belt kept slipping, so I ended up giving it away to a friend and switching to a Denon DP-23F direct drive turntable, which, despite being at least 30 years old, has served me very well for the past few months.
How could a direct drive have a more vibration than a belt drive? Technics DD for example has a spindle which is not the part of the motor. Just a plain spindle. Belt drive platter also sits on a spindle that could induce vibration. Direct drive has such a low speed (33 rpm) so the motor itself could hardly be a culprit of any vibration.
I've had a number of turntables over the years and my Denon DP-45F DC-Servo Direct Drive (strait from 1982) has the least platter noise buy far and is also crystal locked. Just my 2 cents.
i chose a direct-drive because that's what you suggested... so i got myself an audio-technica lp-120usb.... and since then, there was no turning back... thanx jarrett...
Love my LP60, had it a month now and couldn't be happier. If someone wants to upgrade it LP gear does make a stylus and belt kit for it that people say will give it even better sound. Will probably get for my birthday as it's only $40. but make no mistake it does sound great AS IS!
I have 3 turntables, 2 are the exact same model (Gemini pt-2400) and direct drive which will be used to learn DJing. The 3rd turntable is a Stanton T.55 USB and is belt driven. It will be used primarily to listen to vinyl and convert it to mp3 to use in a Digital Vinyl System for DJing
I have a belt driven Linn Basik since the 90's ... I use it with the Akito and an Adikt System. I love this simple turntable. Would never change to another.. but I also like the Rega Planar 2 Belt Drive with the glass platter, instead of acryl. My Brother owns one.
If you plan on djing in any capacity, direct drive is a must. This again touches on the speed accuracy point brought up in this video. You want higher torque and start up speeds as consistency in speed is required for beatmatching, mixing and scratching.
all my turntables have been belt driven and never had any issues with them at all. over the past ten years I've stuck with new old stock aiwa turntables and I would consider them mid range. well built. reliable. gentle on vinyl. good sound at an affordable price
My Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is belt drive but the damn motor is killing all the fun, it's unearthly loud and interferent to be a belt driven turntable even with the motor suspended on rubber washers and a bigger belt around it. With this turntable I'm not getting any feedback even if I put it on the speakers themselves, if only the motor would shout up It'd be perfect!
Direct drive, always. Even better is Technics's Platter drive where the platter is the rotor of the motor. The speed accuracy is paramount in analog media, and the maintenance free is an added bonus. Vibrations are only an issue on very low end machines or not at all considering the motor spins at the low speed of 33rpm. So they are mostly due to poorly made bearings than rotation. The myth comes from Rim Drive, an old 50's concept that predates Direct Drive and was mostly used in radios. And some Cheapo Rim Drive home turntables were advertised as Direct Drive. I see high end belt drive as a a lot of hot air, like most "audiophile" gear that claims to be better than studio, and is proven not to. I'm looking at you $500 per meter golden cables.
I have a heavily modified Rega planar 3 belt drive, I find belt drive better, because they have less motor hum. But with my Rega, I change the silicone belt once a year, to keep the speed correct.
I couldn't thank you enough Jarrett for helping me choose the best Direct Drive turntable which was also under my budget (thanks to your videos). I bought a brand new "Audio Technica (AT-LP120-USB)" in April this year and I'm so happy and satisfied with it. Until March I didn't even know about the basic parts of the turntable (I AM SERIOUS). Thanks to you man your videos are not only insightful and intriguing but also to the point which added priceless value to my knowledge bank. Keep up the good work mate, love from India! :)
Nah, Technics turntables produce just as good or better results than most belt-driven tables in my experience. Plus, no changing of belts required for 45prm/33 records.
Tood bad I found this channel right after getting my first vinyl player, but I'm glad I decided to get the LP120 before, so every video I see I learn more about vinyl, players and the named LP120.
I went hi end direct drive first, a Stanton ST-150M2, solid beast, however noticeable feedback to the speakers.... Then decided to go belt drive, Fluance RT81.... great unit... less wow and flutter than the Stanton. And now just gone higher end belt drive in a Reloop RP-1000 Mk2, has the added touch of looking like a DJ direct drive deck (the Technics 1200 look) , including the pitch control, strobe, and strobe light, and more sophisticated tonearm than the Fluance RT81..... yet is belt drive. For the money the Reloop RP-1000mk2 is very impressive. For audio perfection... got to be belt drive. For DJ Night clubbing and mixing, nothing can beat direct drive.
I have a belt drive turntable myself, specifically a TEAC LP-R550USB. The sound quality on that thing is fantastic, especially considering that it's a ceramic cartridge like many other turntables that are cheaper than that one I got. Only difference between this one I got and some less expensive ones that also have ceramic cartridges is that it uses high quality Japanese parts from Chuodenchi and other brands instead of cheap Chinese clones. That in turn explains why it sounds so gosh darn good. Plus, unlike another turntable I've used, it has does have a counterweight, though it's not user adjustable. Though I do know for a fact that it's pre-set to track at around 5 grams from the factory, which is pretty standard for cartridges like that).
I prefer belt drive. The speed inaccuracy is not that big to cause audible problems, while the mechanical vibrations from the direct drive motor can cause very nasty rumble. Also there is a slight possibility for fast and periodical speed irregularities with the direct drive which can degrade your audio output and can lead to less clean tone. The only drawback of a good synchronous motor belt driven turntable with heavy platter is the spare belts availability. Some particular sizes are harder to find. And don't forget to mention the idler wheel drive. Has high torque, definitely longer life than the belt and is unlikely to cause the high frequency speed irregularities. But depending on the motor type and quality it can lead to a respectable amount of rumble. But we should mention that drive mechanism from the past.
Direct drive for me. After seeing some belt drives in action I can say I'm confident in direct drives and I don't notice any extra vibration or harshness at all.
I have both belt-driven and direct drive. Both of my turntables are vintage. On my channel you can see them. My belt-driven is a MCS 6502 (JC Penney used to sell these) and my direct-drive is a Gemini XL-500 II. What I do is I have a cork mat on both turntables and my styli are elliptical instead of spherical. I look for ways to dampen or reduce vibrations as much as possible. The only reason I lean towards direct-drive is because I don't have to worry about replacing the belt every time it starts to stretch....but all in all...I have heard no difference between the both in my case.
My performance decks are Technics 1200 mk2s. And my hoidy toidy turntable is an old modified dual which has a stone platter and detached motor drive. And detached tonearm assembly. Its all encased in granite and the whole thing weighs about 190 pounds. Whole project cost me maybe $400 (not including cart and stylus) to build and it sounds as good as any ultra high end unit i have ever heard. Including those which cost 10s of thousands.
What about rim drive turntables? The Gates CB1201 comes to mind. These are professional grade turntables used in radio stations. They have heavy-duty motors and are designed for hard, continuous use.
I own nine turntables, from Empire Troubador 598 to Technics SL-1401 and Realistic RD-8100 and I see no reason why to prefer just one type of motor drive when you can have one of each :)
Had to make the decision on a direct drive or a belt drive...Choice was a AT-LP5 or Project Debut Carbon..I was tempted by the AT-LP5 but what tipped it was I managed to get a NOS Project Carbon Esprit SB for the same price as the AT-LP5!! :P
I've got a Project Debut 2, which is belt driven and hasn't given me any problems (yet!). The only bit that's a pain is having to slip the belt between the motor spindles to change the speed, which I feel is more of an issue as it means stretching the belt a little to do it, which is only going to cause problems if I do it often enough (which I don't, I tend to leave my singles and EPs alone and only play albums). I've contemplated replacing it with the LP120 for the direct drive and the strobe so I can get the pitch bang on, but until my old deck breaks, I'm not going to worry too much about it.
really I'm here in your video - because I found my Gemini belt old and not accurate, and I need service - and I'm tired of it, and I don't want more "services", : P
More important is the cue mechanism. That would include how easy it is to figure out and how resistant the cue is to stopping scratching when starting a record. Remember if you buy an older used turntable, you needs legs so it will be level. Being unlevel can cause skipping.
I was a radio dj too, and unless it has been said, the reason direct drive is used is because you can cue records with them very easily, that is, have a song start at the very second I need it to. but if you're at home then you won't be doing anything fancy (unless you mix) so a belt drive is perfect.
Direct drive actually tends to be more silent because you don't haver a high speed motor mounted on the same structure as the platter. The difference may be too small to notice though. Note that those hi-end belt drives have the motor off the base.
In the $400 - $1,500, direct drive is usually better. Most turntables over $2,000 are belt drive. If you're only paying tow or three hundred dollars, it's not going to make much difference since that's pretty low end unless you're buying used.
respect for your respect for chester,i got the same idea,not as my first cd but as it changed my life!,okeeas for turntables i use,i use both,i own multiple belt AND direct drive turntables and when i am mixing i like to use direct drive as it .... direct drives and music needs to be on beat,as for private listening i like to use belt drive for my precious collectors lp's ,because (my idea) it all starts a litlle slower ...i even own and use a technics sl-j3 full auto quartz drive wich i restored and love,so in my opinion, it depends on how you use it and what music will be played!!
I much prefer direct drive. No matter what belt drive I had, the speed was always slow, or fast. Personally, I don't like my music to be slower or faster than intended so I much prefer a belt drive which are almost always spot on 33.3rpm
I currently have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT. It sounds amazing and that one is belt driven. I moved from and older Technics belt driven turntable, it was a piece of plastic pretty much. So I haven't really experienced a direct drive one. So imma stay at the belt drive ones for now.
Been looking at vintage [record players]. Kinda noticing that the belt drive dealio is more like the reduced vibration allows for [cheaper] motors. I'm discounting the super highend stuff, jus looking at the sub $500 range of Japanese disc spinners.
I use the U-Turn I love it went with it more cause of it's sleek look. Most direct players look to DJ-ish to me. I wanted something sleek and stylish for my setup and it plays well.
I'm astonished that the first thing you said in the intro wasn't "If you're getting ready to buy your first turntable, don't get a Crosley Cruiser."
The Crosby is the ABSOLUTE worst player to purchase. It is the equivalent to the old sapphire needle players you could carry around with the handle when I was 10 years old. Circa 1979. Caveat Emptor.
How dare you say that about Bing Crosby.
im surprised too. the qestion iswhy the hell would any do that to there reocrds. of side from that i got the audio techn lp 120 and i love it.
Thomas Morey I'm pretty sure he's completely serious and mad at you for talking bad about Bing Crosby on a vinyl eyes video
@@questhero101
🤣
I'm more of a direct drive person, mainly because I work with them at my radio station. We're fortunate enough to own two Technics SL-1200 turntables.
Good used SL-1200 Mk. IIIs can sell for $350-400, and Mk. Vs for $450-500. Either one will sound much better than an Audio-Technica LP-120, and Technics still builds this model so if anything does go wrong, you can still get parts.
+Martin Tousignant the new AT'S are built with the same schematics as a SL-1200. In 2009 the 25 year patent Technics held for the SL-1200 expired. That's why Audio Technical started producing them. And Technics stopped making the SL-1200 series.
Wrong on both counts. Technics currently produces SL-1200Gs for sale worldwide, and even if AT uses the same schematics, they don't use nearly the same quality control standards.
+Martin Tousignant Proof?
www.analogplanet.com/content/technics-direct-drive-sl-1200g-turntable; www.analogplanet.com/content/audio-technica-lp120-usb-turntable-shames-plastic-competition
Over the last 50 years, I've owned/used both belt drive and direct drive tables. I have found the biggest differences in real use to be that the belt drive tables require much more user maintenance, mainly keeping the belt and its contact surfaces clean. In a quality table, speed differences, if any, are trivial. The belt drive if neglected can introduce wow and flutter; by comparison, direct drive systems are generally sealed and of no or low maintenance. The advantage of the belt drive: (1) much cheaper to build to a high performance point; and (2) all else equal, tend to have lower rumble than direct drive. In a quality table, any rumble differential tends to favor the belt drive technically, but the absolute levels are so low as to make no practical difference. Note: overall, I think the cheapest path to high quality table to start out is to buy a used table from the 1970s or 80s, say Pioneer PL-518 (direct drive), and have a shop service it, then add a new quality cartridge, Nagaoka MP-110. $225 - 275 total is very feasible.
if the motor is mass production quality most often it is, it produces minute oscilations in speed which does affct sound. mud!
Why didn’t he just greenscreen a picture of his old background behind him
I gave you a thumbs for both your comment and user name
Lol
@@bashdachivoI actually like this videos where he has this background
One extra note ...direct drive motors are usually more stronger and less likely to burn out compared to belt drive motors.
I just got my first turntable and thanks to you and your videos I picked up an audio technica lp120. I appreciate your opinions and information as I start this new hobby of collecting vinyl
That's a good one... You can always upgrade the cartridge if you want to improve the quality.
What are your thoughts on the switch? Do you prefer direct drive? I'm thinking of doing the same but only if it's worth it...
After a bit of research, I think the Nagaoka MP-100 or MP-110 is a good choice for a cartridge upgrade ($90 - 130). I think direct drive is the way to go for the entry level audiophile, based on the price point. I know you can buy a good direct drive turntable for around $200 - 300, but I have often heard bad things about belt drive turntables in the same price range. Many of the cheaper ones run fast or slow, based on one thing or another.
I currently have a Project Essential 2 belt driven turntable, it's running through the phono stage of a pioneer A10 amp with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220's bi-wired. By no means a high end setup, but so far I've been happy with the sound.
I guess what I'm asking is what advantages does switching to a direct drive model have in terms of sound quality, and with a setup like mine would I even perceive any changes in quality vs the Project Essential 2?
Hybird Theory and Meteora were BIG parts of my middle school and high school years. Hearing about Chester's passing was CRUSHING. Rushed out and picked up Meteora and am still trying to track down Hybrid Theory
I just got a CDC8003, it’s an 80s era Japanese direct drive TT. Loving it so far, the on board strobe makes timing adjustment really easy. The rest of my setup is fairly low end at this stage though so I cant really comment as to the impact the motor is having on overall sound but i think it’s a good start. It’s definitely better than my first tt.
I have been using direct drive tables for the past 40 years to excellent ends. German made Dual and now Pioneer PLX 1000s.
Have any essue? PLX 500 or PLX1000
I like the direct drive, I have a vintage Technics 1300, I looked it up, made in 74, it said it was the auto home version of the 1200. I also have a Yamaha, vintage direct drive, and a Cec direct drive, but I like more the belt drive, Thorens, high end and other belt drives, I also like the idler, rim drive turntables, Dual 1229, Bsr-Mcdonald 810-transcriptor, the direct drives sound more scratchy to me, I hear more noise. The cartridge and stylus you choose will really make the difference, and yes speakers and amp as well as setup. I really Enjoy Watching your work, "Vinyl Eyezz", your Awesome Bro
The first half decent turntable I bought was a belt driven Rega Planar 1.
I loved the way it looked and the sound quality was great, but it ran a little fast.
I took it back to the store and they said "no you must be wrong. We sell hundreds of these and never had a complaint". Then they strobe tested my turntable and their display one. Both were running fast. I can only imagine that their other customers don't pay attention when listening to their music.
I ended up swapping it for an Audio Technica LP120 and it was the best decision I could have made. No more worries with fine speed control and it sounds amazing.
Dan Xepha totally agree
I have two turntables in my system: The older one is a Thorens TD-124 with an SME 3009 Series 2 tonearm. This setup is about 52 years old. It is a belt and idler rim drive: The motor shaft, by means of a belt, turns an intermediate 4 stepped pulley (for the 4 speeds) which in turn drives a rubber tired idler driving the inner rim of the turntable. My "newer" turntable is the Technics SL-110 two-speed direct drive (about 40 years old) with an SME 3009 Series 2 improved tonearm meaning it has a non-detachable headshell to reduce mass. Both turntables have strobes and fine speed adjustment. The direct drive unit is definitely the quieter running of the two, having no detectable rumble. I made it a point to have a vial of Technics synthetic oil which I have used to lubricate both turntables on a couple of occasions.
My point of view is: if they're in good working condition both are good enough for starters. Great video as ever!!!
Belt drive turntables became popular shortly after the introduction of direct drive (mainly Technics) turntables. The claims that belt-driven turntables were superior was based on the idea that direct drive turntables, having the motor as part of the turntable, were for that reason, inherently prone to rumble, ignoring the fact that a well designed direct drive motor was actually less prone to rumble than a belt or idler driven turntable having a high speed motor on the same chassis and thus being actually more prone to produce vibrations that were within the audible range.
The reality is that these smaller manufacturers were not in a position to design and manufacture their own direct drive motors (or buy them from Panasonic) so they simply claimed that a belt-driven (and less expensive) design was somehow superior in performance to a direct drive. A well designed and manufactured direct drive turntable has a typical rumble specification of -70 db which is very hard to beat and nearly perfect speed accuracy.
In the 1970s and 80s we had a Technics SL-1900 turntable. Its heavy platter was part of the motor itself, so there was no rumble -- the permanent magnets were all glued to the central part of the platter.
Lately, though, my TT has been a mid-80s Luxman PD284. The solid-state motor appears to be a pulse-type digital affair, and it has no moving parts until you place the very heavy platter onto the spindle. Then, the platter rotates and it is even more consistently accurate than was the old Technics. This Luxman is also the quietest turntable I have ever had. Less noise than any belt drive or rim-disc drive or DD that I have ever had. Dead-silent and no discernible wow/flutter. Amazing deck.
I've got a Pro-Jett debut carbon that I recently upgraded with an Ortofon blue cartridge. Sound is the best I've ever had. Couldn't be happier and have never experienced any "slippage" with the belt.
I’m a direct drive person, I have the LP120 and love it. I had a thorns belt driven turn table and had to replace the belt a lot
I'm finally switching from belt drive to direct drive. Should be in the mail tomorrow :)
Jordan Iverson don't throw away your belt drive,use them side by side (if possible) for a while and determine wich you might love more! one might sound better then the other because of different internal components ,enjoy your new deck !
Jordan Iverson could you maybe come back and give your honest opinion after a while? I'd like as many opinions before going and spending good money on a turntable
Good choice! Belt drive is substandard. Unless you have a few thousand to buy a weighted floating table.
+Madeline Peters I agree!
I think under 400€ / 500$ you should buy direct drive. Above belt drive is just better and the drive is precise.
I'm a direct drive person, and love my Stanton STR8.150. the platter is quite heavy to dampen any vibration.
My Father was even more impressed...
Belt drive is the way to go. Timing has never been an issue with my belt drives and sound quality is much better.
No brainer for me. I had a bunch of turntables over the years in college, but since I acquired my Pioneer PL540 back in the '70s, I haven't looked back. Periodic maintenance about once a year, and it is still going strong with zero issues. The only thing I've had to replace is the stylus. Not bad for an automatic turntable with all the bells and whistles and direct drive that's about 45 years old.
I have Dj-Tech turntable, random pick in shop gaved to me direct drive.:-) Thanks for youtubers like you has given more knowledge. Keep it up!
My first five turntables were neither direct drive nor belt drive, but idler wheel drive and to be honest several of those sounded better than the LP60 belt drive I have now. I haven't listened to my direct drive yet as I am waiting for some other accessories for it before I bother to hook it up, such as a white acrylic "mat" and a 78 cartridge. In any event I'll still be keeping my idler wheel drive player for when I want to just listen to a stack of albums with no interruptions to manually change the records.
Personally I'd go with the direct drive, to avoid inaccurate speed. I feel that If you're gonna be that OCD over sound clarity than you might as well listen to digital ultra high quality lossless music through diamond HDMI cables or something.
A lot of higher end belt drive turntables have external power supplies to regulate speed control (And like someone else pointed out, speed differences are mostly trivial). Also most people that listen to vinyl like it for the way it sounds compared to digital. Having high fidelity sound and vinyl aren't mutually exclusive things...
Red hair, brown hair, belt driven, direct drive, it's all good.
I just got a LP-120 inspired by watching (basically all of) your videos, keep up the good work!
Please, please consider doing a video on techniques for repairing warped vinyl.
pleeeease.
You can't really repair them on your own. There are machines to fix warped vinyls but they are really expensive. However, some record stores or HIFI stores have these machines and you can pay them to fix your warped records.
There's also the old rim drive ones that use a rubber roller wheel.
Great little Chester tribute.
Definitely a belt drive guy 👍
Lovin' these vids dude. Very informative and fun to watch. I recently started collecting records again after I got a Pioneer PL-S40 for $45. IT's an old turntable from the 80s but it sounds much better than that $45 Jensen one I bought over a year and a half ago. Keep on truckin'!
Another factor is that direct drive is usually more reliable because there are less moving parts that can fail, but - and this is a big but - when direct drive turntables fail they are often more complicated/expensive to repair because the electronics that runs the direct drive motor is more complicated. (My turntable is a direct drive Technics)
I'm not trying to discredit your show. However if something is not totally correct, I have to say something. You really have the face and voice to do video. Also, I love the hand expressions in each show. You sell it very well!!
I have both a direct drive and belt drive the sound coming out of them is fine to me I always liked direct drive cause of issue with belt slipping ,and when cleaning records on turntable just the slightest pressure on belt drive it stops the platter from turning I feel you cannot clean record as good cause of the way it slows down,and I am not putting too much pressure on it it has to be very very lite so you got to make sure your records are not that dirty, I've always kept my records clean but when buying used records some have finger prints and you need to put more pressure to clean ,you could buy cleaning machines that clean the records but they are too expensive if you are on a tight budget,
I'm a fan of vintage direct drive units from the giants of the "turntable wars" of the late 1970s (Technics, Pioneer, Sony, etc.). WOW/flutter and signal to noise ratio specs that blow today's similarly priced turntables ($100-500) away.
From personal experience, I prefer direct drive turntables. I used to own an Audio Technica AT-LP60, but the belt kept slipping, so I ended up giving it away to a friend and switching to a Denon DP-23F direct drive turntable, which, despite being at least 30 years old, has served me very well for the past few months.
How could a direct drive have a more vibration than a belt drive? Technics DD for example has a spindle which is not the part of the motor. Just a plain spindle. Belt drive platter also sits on a spindle that could induce vibration. Direct drive has such a low speed (33 rpm) so the motor itself could hardly be a culprit of any vibration.
I've had a number of turntables over the years and my Denon DP-45F DC-Servo Direct Drive (strait from 1982) has the least platter noise buy far and is also crystal locked. Just my 2 cents.
i chose a direct-drive because that's what you suggested... so i got myself an audio-technica lp-120usb.... and since then, there was no turning back... thanx jarrett...
My Sony PS-434 from the early 80s is direct drive and I love it!
Direct drive all the way baby!!!
Love my LP60, had it a month now and couldn't be happier. If someone wants to upgrade it LP gear does make a stylus and belt kit for it that people say will give it even better sound. Will probably get for my birthday as it's only $40. but make no mistake it does sound great AS IS!
Daniel Witzel Really? Never heard of that? Can you u provide a link. I love my lp60, but my 180g records don't sound the greatest on it.
Carcrashradio ! Here it is: www.lpgear.com/product/UPATPL60.html
I have 3 turntables, 2 are the exact same model (Gemini pt-2400) and direct drive which will be used to learn DJing. The 3rd turntable is a Stanton T.55 USB and is belt driven. It will be used primarily to listen to vinyl and convert it to mp3 to use in a Digital Vinyl System for DJing
I have a vintage Kenwood KD-550. It's a direct drive and I love it. Really heavy too. They used a thick plastic composite to mimic granite!
I have a belt driven Linn Basik since the 90's ... I use it with the Akito and an Adikt System. I love this simple turntable. Would never change to another.. but I also like the Rega Planar 2 Belt Drive with the glass platter, instead of acryl. My Brother owns one.
If you plan on djing in any capacity, direct drive is a must. This again touches on the speed accuracy point brought up in this video. You want higher torque and start up speeds as consistency in speed is required for beatmatching, mixing and scratching.
Late 70s Dual 721 - direct drive after restoration :) Awesome unit :)
all my turntables have been belt driven and never had any issues with them at all. over the past ten years I've stuck with new old stock aiwa turntables and I would consider them mid range. well built. reliable. gentle on vinyl. good sound at an affordable price
I personally prefer Belt-drive. Thankful for the content Jarrett.
Jacques from Rsa.
My Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is belt drive but the damn motor is killing all the fun, it's unearthly loud and interferent to be a belt driven turntable even with the motor suspended on rubber washers and a bigger belt around it. With this turntable I'm not getting any feedback even if I put it on the speakers themselves, if only the motor would shout up It'd be perfect!
I've always had direct drive and I like them over belt drive because you do not have to worry about replacing belts.
Direct drive, always. Even better is Technics's Platter drive where the platter is the rotor of the motor. The speed accuracy is paramount in analog media, and the maintenance free is an added bonus.
Vibrations are only an issue on very low end machines or not at all considering the motor spins at the low speed of 33rpm. So they are mostly due to poorly made bearings than rotation. The myth comes from Rim Drive, an old 50's concept that predates Direct Drive and was mostly used in radios. And some Cheapo Rim Drive home turntables were advertised as Direct Drive.
I see high end belt drive as a a lot of hot air, like most "audiophile" gear that claims to be better than studio, and is proven not to. I'm looking at you $500 per meter golden cables.
yep, the rumble on mine is low
ived loved my technics 1200s since the 80s. still awesome
I have a heavily modified Rega planar 3 belt drive, I find belt drive better, because they have less motor hum. But with my Rega, I change the silicone belt once a year, to keep the speed correct.
I couldn't thank you enough Jarrett for helping me choose the best Direct Drive turntable which was also under my budget (thanks to your videos). I bought a brand new "Audio Technica (AT-LP120-USB)" in April this year and I'm so happy and satisfied with it. Until March I didn't even know about the basic parts of the turntable (I AM SERIOUS). Thanks to you man your videos are not only insightful and intriguing but also to the point which added priceless value to my knowledge bank. Keep up the good work mate, love from India! :)
Unless you DJ, belt drive is the way to go.
Nah, Technics turntables produce just as good or better results than most belt-driven tables in my experience. Plus, no changing of belts required for 45prm/33 records.
Tood bad I found this channel right after getting my first vinyl player, but I'm glad I decided to get the LP120 before, so every video I see I learn more about vinyl, players and the named LP120.
I went hi end direct drive first, a Stanton ST-150M2, solid beast, however noticeable feedback to the speakers.... Then decided to go belt drive, Fluance RT81.... great unit... less wow and flutter than the Stanton. And now just gone higher end belt drive in a Reloop RP-1000 Mk2, has the added touch of looking like a DJ direct drive deck (the Technics 1200 look) , including the pitch control, strobe, and strobe light, and more sophisticated tonearm than the Fluance RT81..... yet is belt drive. For the money the Reloop RP-1000mk2 is very impressive. For audio perfection... got to be belt drive. For DJ Night clubbing and mixing, nothing can beat direct drive.
I have a belt drive turntable myself, specifically a TEAC LP-R550USB. The sound quality on that thing is fantastic, especially considering that it's a ceramic cartridge like many other turntables that are cheaper than that one I got. Only difference between this one I got and some less expensive ones that also have ceramic cartridges is that it uses high quality Japanese parts from Chuodenchi and other brands instead of cheap Chinese clones. That in turn explains why it sounds so gosh darn good. Plus, unlike another turntable I've used, it has does have a counterweight, though it's not user adjustable. Though I do know for a fact that it's pre-set to track at around 5 grams from the factory, which is pretty standard for cartridges like that).
I prefer belt drive. The speed inaccuracy is not that big to cause audible problems, while the mechanical vibrations from the direct drive motor can cause very nasty rumble. Also there is a slight possibility for fast and periodical speed irregularities with the direct drive which can degrade your audio output and can lead to less clean tone. The only drawback of a good synchronous motor belt driven turntable with heavy platter is the spare belts availability. Some particular sizes are harder to find. And don't forget to mention the idler wheel drive. Has high torque, definitely longer life than the belt and is unlikely to cause the high frequency speed irregularities. But depending on the motor type and quality it can lead to a respectable amount of rumble. But we should mention that drive mechanism from the past.
I've owned both and can't say I have a preferance. I'm not an audiophle just a casaul collector/listener. If it works right and sounds good I'm happy.
Direct drive for me. After seeing some belt drives in action I can say I'm confident in direct drives and I don't notice any extra vibration or harshness at all.
I got direct drive pioneer and belt drive technics, both work great for me.
I have both !!! . And like them for different reasons . I think that this is ...... hard to decide !!. Good video .
This is why I have a LP60 and 120
Hybrid Theory marcou uma geração !
I have both belt-driven and direct drive. Both of my turntables are vintage. On my channel you can see them. My belt-driven is a MCS 6502 (JC Penney used to sell these) and my direct-drive is a Gemini XL-500 II. What I do is I have a cork mat on both turntables and my styli are elliptical instead of spherical. I look for ways to dampen or reduce vibrations as much as possible. The only reason I lean towards direct-drive is because I don't have to worry about replacing the belt every time it starts to stretch....but all in all...I have heard no difference between the both in my case.
Technics SL 1200 Mk I x2, Technics SL 1200 Miles 4 x 1 (Three speed Japanese release) keep up the good work.
My performance decks are Technics 1200 mk2s. And my hoidy toidy turntable is an old modified dual which has a stone platter and detached motor drive. And detached tonearm assembly. Its all encased in granite and the whole thing weighs about 190 pounds. Whole project cost me maybe $400 (not including cart and stylus) to build and it sounds as good as any ultra high end unit i have ever heard. Including those which cost 10s of thousands.
Vinyleyezz I can't wait for you to get back to la keep up the good work dude I'm so hyped for the new content you got coming out
What about rim drive turntables? The Gates CB1201 comes to mind. These are professional grade turntables used in radio stations. They have heavy-duty motors and are designed for hard, continuous use.
I own nine turntables, from Empire Troubador 598 to Technics SL-1401 and Realistic RD-8100 and I see no reason why to prefer just one type of motor drive when you can have one of each :)
Had to make the decision on a direct drive or a belt drive...Choice was a AT-LP5 or Project Debut Carbon..I was tempted by the AT-LP5 but what tipped it was I managed to get a NOS Project Carbon Esprit SB for the same price as the AT-LP5!! :P
R.I.P. CB
I've got a Project Debut 2, which is belt driven and hasn't given me any problems (yet!). The only bit that's a pain is having to slip the belt between the motor spindles to change the speed, which I feel is more of an issue as it means stretching the belt a little to do it, which is only going to cause problems if I do it often enough (which I don't, I tend to leave my singles and EPs alone and only play albums). I've contemplated replacing it with the LP120 for the direct drive and the strobe so I can get the pitch bang on, but until my old deck breaks, I'm not going to worry too much about it.
I have the direct drive Lp120 on a shure mxe97 cartridge
Direct drive, I have been using a Technics 1200 since 1993 for home listening, Paid my brother $200
NICE! Those Technics 1200s are legendary!
really I'm here in your video - because I found my Gemini belt old and not accurate, and I need service - and I'm tired of it, and I don't want more "services", : P
Direct drive for me I am running a pare of Technics 1210 turntables
More important is the cue mechanism. That would include how easy it is to figure out and how resistant the cue is to stopping scratching when starting a record. Remember if you buy an older used turntable, you needs legs so it will be level. Being unlevel can cause skipping.
I was a radio dj too, and unless it has been said, the reason direct drive is used is because you can cue records with them very easily, that is, have a song start at the very second I need it to. but if you're at home then you won't be doing anything fancy (unless you mix) so a belt drive is perfect.
Nice respects to Chester
My mom and stepdad may get me pro-ject turntable!!
I've had a belt drive turntable for several years now and about to upgrade. Considering going to direct drive.
You missed the idler drive. It is old but still some audiophiles' favorite other than belt drive.
high-end turntables are still produced with rim drive.
i just bought a direct drive pioneer pl300 (1979) i think its a great sounding player especvially for its price
Direct drive actually tends to be more silent because you don't haver a high speed motor mounted on the same structure as the platter. The difference may be too small to notice though. Note that those hi-end belt drives have the motor off the base.
In the $400 - $1,500, direct drive is usually better. Most turntables over $2,000 are belt drive. If you're only paying tow or three hundred dollars, it's not going to make much difference since that's pretty low end unless you're buying used.
respect for your respect for chester,i got the same idea,not as my first cd but as it changed my life!,okeeas for turntables i use,i use both,i own multiple belt AND direct drive turntables and when i am mixing i like to use direct drive as it .... direct drives and music needs to be on beat,as for private listening i like to use belt drive for my precious collectors lp's ,because (my idea) it all starts a litlle slower ...i even own and use a technics sl-j3 full auto quartz drive wich i restored and love,so in my opinion, it depends on how you use it and what music will be played!!
Belt drive da goat no cap
I much prefer direct drive. No matter what belt drive I had, the speed was always slow, or fast. Personally, I don't like my music to be slower or faster than intended so I much prefer a belt drive which are almost always spot on 33.3rpm
Still using my dad's idler drive wheel Dual 1010, for purposes it sounds and works well since 1968 (don't care about the rumble)
I prefer direct drive since I have never had problem, but did have problems with belt drives in the past
I was NOT expecting number 3 from you. Ty
Why dont you save a lot of money and instead of buying a belt drive turntable, buy the Technics SL1200, which is the best turntable of all? ;)
I currently have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT. It sounds amazing and that one is belt driven. I moved from and older Technics belt driven turntable, it was a piece of plastic pretty much. So I haven't really experienced a direct drive one. So imma stay at the belt drive ones for now.
My TT has both. Motor is direct drive and the linear tracking arm is belt driven.
Travis Wood what model is it?
It's a Sony PS-LX520. I think it's a mid 80s model. Late technology just before the format briefly died.
It depends on the turntable when it comes to belt drive. I found that the u turn orbit's speed is pretty accurate if you opt for the acrylic platter
Been looking at vintage [record players]. Kinda noticing that the belt drive dealio is more like the reduced vibration allows for [cheaper] motors. I'm discounting the super highend stuff, jus looking at the sub $500 range of Japanese disc spinners.
I use the U-Turn I love it went with it more cause of it's sleek look. Most direct players look to DJ-ish to me. I wanted something sleek and stylish for my setup and it plays well.
We're forgetting the 3rd option here, idler drive. Very popular in the 70's.
i use to have a magnetic turntable , i wish i kept it , now , it was the smoothist turntable i ever played