Carinthia Defence 4 Sleeping Bag Review
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- Опубликовано: 28 янв 2020
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It's been a year, and well worth it. The Carinthia Defence 4 is pure awesomeness!
Hi Randal, you mentioned sometime that you could show us how to take care of sleeping bags when you are using them a LOT like all the time rather than just a short weekend. So how do you keep them clean? Do you wash them - surely there is no dry cleaning in the military? Not sure it even fits in a domestic washing machine. So is there some special treatment or care needed? Thanks!
Hi ! Did you ever tried it under -5°C? What was your feeling? I plan to sleep with mine by - 8/-10 under tarp. Sound good for you with a merinos underwear and a hat? thanks and very nice chanel
If you're ok with the cold, that should be fine. The closest I've slept with mine was -10C and I had the ECWCS waffles on, and a tent. I was pretty comfortable, especially for not being a winter guy
@@GruntProof perfect, thanks for the prompt answer. I like to get warm while sleeping so i will wear a uniqlo heattech on
It has been a few years now, does your recommendation still stand?
When I was a kid I spent a summer in NC at my grandfathers house on the lake, he broke out his WW2 sleeping bag for me to use that was dark green, down & canvas. Looked just like this! He was a B24’ pilot stationed in Italy .. So I’ve gotten very interested in this company and am close to pulling the trigger. I have very fond memories of that summer for sure. Cheers bro.
173rd
🍻
Man that's an awesome bag. Smart idea putting the mat right inside the bag with you. The fact you don't have to mess around with the zipper and you can get out fast would be my reason for buying it. Those are excellent cold weather tests, it certainly does the job. Epic video brother!
Great video dude. Chill, nice atmosphere, calm. Don't change anything !
Good stuff man 👍 I bought the carinthia tropen and combined it with the swagman roll, super light and versatile combo. I dig your reviews, really helps on deciding what gear to spend and where it's best to spend the dough. Thank you!
Great video. Even 3 years later. Thank you for sharing.
Awesome real review. I voted for the bivi test and you did it, and the bag sure did its stuff too. Great idea putting the mat inside, this is one bag that would have room for that. Thank you for sharing your time and your knowledge with us, you have convinced me to save up and get one of these bags. Top video buddy 👌
Thanks a lot man! And I appreciate the input
I have the same thing with a plus, i got the bivy or Elefantenhaut (that's how they call it) to go along with it. With the whole setup, you don't need anything else. It's helped me get throu alot of cold nights out in the field. Great stuff and great testing Vids.
Awesome review and exactly the information I was looking for. I hope you don't mind but I'm going to give you a small correction. You mentioned GLOFT was the coating on the bag to improve water resistance but according to Carinthia website, GLOFT is actually the insulation, (a proprietary material made of hollow polyester fibres, combined into a lofty, almost down-like final product) Again, according to Carinthia, the polyamide outer is supposedly waterproof but the bag is rated as only being water resistant because the zippers are not completely water tight. Either way, still an amazing sleeping bag and I hope to be pulling the trigger on one very soon. Thanks for your review!
Thank you! Yes I realized I had misspoken too late
Great video. I’ve just bought a Defence 4 but yet to try it out. It’s not really cold enough yet here in the UK, but winters on its way.
Good to see you rocking the DD Hammocks gear. I’m a fan too. Cheers and all the very best from the UK!
Thanks!
I love sleeping in when I am warm and comfy and it's cold and miserable outdoors.. Human nature I'm thinking. Great review.
I love those button sweaters. I had two but gave them away, keeping my eye on them. I have two sleep shirts, one with buttons and one with zippers (I prefer the button one, but maybe just because I've had that one for years, the zipper one just this year). I bought a third for my hiking buddy,
Carinthia makes great equipment at reasonable prices. Might have to get one to replace my antique Canadian Forces Arctic bag.
I personally use the the defense 1 and 4 combined if I'm gonna sleep in cold weather under -10c, these bags are awesome, would recommend 100%
I personally used the Defence 1 at 2°C in a bivy bag and was toasty warm. Great bag.
Three season, bag as this Defence 4 does (not include summer).
The tropen bag is for summer, then add tropen and def 4 to achieve arctic R-value...Great vid. Love my def 4.....
Thanks!
Looks like a great bag. I have Wiggy's bags (recommended by a marine and a seal member) and they are similar bags. They can be washed to in a washing machine. I used the 50+ bag as an indoor sleeping bag since the heat pump doesn't work below 35 F degrees nights can be tough. The power went out and the place got down to 40 F inside. I was still nearly sweating and had to open the bag with just a thin poly wicking shirt and boxers with the sleep socks on. I love the fact that even when soaked, they dry fast with your body heat and still keep you warm. (Yes, I tested this.) My other bags are a 35F and a -60 F. I doubt I'll use the -60 F but you never know. Together they make a -80 F bag set. They are heavy but are DB proof in my book.
Great video out and about in the woods. Just to provide a bit of info clarity... Ya got it mixed up at the beginning of the video: Polyamid material is used as the outer shell and inner lining. It is Nylon. G-loft polyester is the insulation type that is a blend of virgin hollow polyester and cluster forming recycled hollow fiber polyester loft. Looks like fun camping a great set-up. Gotta Love the USA military 'Waffles'!!! I pretty much live day and night in Polartec 'waffles' all fall and winter. The Primaloft Gen III Level 7 is a go-to as well!!!
Gotcha, thanks!
When the music started I thought my spotify was playing in the background lol, great choice
Super Video !! I love my Carnthia Defence 4!!!!
Thanks dude. We have a lot of work to do. Next video should be your knife collection!
Carinthia Defence 4 is my go to bag .Excellent review brother,keep up the good work!PS Eberlestok Reveille is basically the same sleeping bag but rebranded
Thanks! I've been told that Eberlestok is just the Catinthia for the US
Been using the MSS for years but I'm gonna check this Bag out.
Great camp and review.
👍
The MSS is still a great system!
@@GruntProof
The best !
Evening mate, nice nothing like the woods 👍😁
Looks like a great sleeping bag. Nice campouts! I have one of those green military sleep shirts i found about a year ago at my local surplus store. You said it wasn't too warm to sleep in, that's a bummer. I haven't used it for camping yet. I've only wore it over the the Ninja base layer shirt so far. Seemed pretty warm. But it's a lot different if you're stationary in a sleeping bag I guess.
"Polartec silkweight" most likely (ninja base layer) fyi
Not for me at least, but I'm a cold sleeper. In the winter I'm usually in the ninjas and "waffle" stuff anyway
@@GruntProof Yeah, I'm a cold sleeper too.
Great review.
Thanks!
Thanks for the review! Fact correction though: G-Loft is not a membrane, it is the insulation layer. The outer layer is made of polyamide on the Defence 4.
Below freezing... down is the answer. I fought it for years but finally pulled the trigger on n oversized down quilt. With blow up sleeping pad it changed ground camping for me. $400 for quilt n pad at under 3lbs gets me to 0°. N more than that is the comfort. I know ur a grunt at heart but u dont have 2 live like that ne more. LOL. Love the channel. Stay strong.
Thanks! I don't suffer in the cold anymore 👍😎
@@GruntProof was just trying to pass on my exp. They also make hoodless sleeping bags. Watching ur play list now. The car wash hose on the swagman roll was priceless.
Input is always much appreciated!
Why couldnt I have found this prior to buying my Neo bag??? Guess Im gonna have to drop some more cash on this bad boy!
Great review, Carinthia makes great stuff, in Moldova of all places. Guess that's why it is great bang for the buck.
How would a grunt take it if I were to suggest for him to test marine gear?
Namely the improved bivy, can't seem to find any real unbiased or real field test of it around the interwebz.
Could probably chip in a few crayons so you have something to bargain for one.
🤣🤣 I've been digging the marine stuff and will get to it, especially their sleep system. I just acquired some prized marine stuff that I will talk about soon. Thanks!
Love the watch with the detail Temp readings. Do you mind sharing what it is. I am in need of a good time keeper, but not sure what I want to get this time around
Garmin Tactix
Just bought one. Haven't used it yet but I can tell it's quality. Nice Super Metroid music!
You'll love it
Hello from Vorarlberg Austria 🇦🇹
I have my issue with this sleeping bag but I still love it 😂👍
Kind regards Leopold 🤗
Carinthia make excellent sleeping bags and excellent jackets too.
Really like this review.. and SAVOTTA backpack.. its from here in Finland 🙂🙏👌
Hell yea!
I'm a soldier stationed in Germany as well and I am considering buying this bag thanks for the review
yea it's pretty sweet and unless you're sleeping in the rain you don't need a bivy
Thumbs up for the review and the super Metroid easter egg
You may have sold me on this. I'm tall (6'4) but slender. I thought the extra room might be an issue but my neoxtherm inside would be perfect. I sleep cold so I think I just just take the extra weight. Use my helikon swagman as a liner (which i bring everywhereanyways).....maybe I can get this baby down -10. But I know I'll get the Tropen eventually as well then I have a real deal sub zero setup. Tropen and defense 4 would give me an all weather setup and still eb cheaper than most down bags.
Thanks! I think at your height you'd struggle in any bag. But this is the roomiest sleeping bag I have used.
I would like to see how good the old 1949 duck/ goose down sleeping bag is compared to the modern ones
Received this bag today, it is really great quality. I generally run UL gear for backpacking trips because I won’t be doing 20mi/5k elevation gain days above 40lbs pack weight at my age. In researching bags I went with this one so I can have the versatility it provides. The one feature I wish it had is a pocket inside for headlamp/phone/water filter to find quickly or keep from freezing. The water filter can go in the foot box but it’d be nice if the pocket existed for the headlamp/phone. Only a small complaint. It compresses real well, looking forward to testing the warmth. Definitely a good tip to get the larger bag.
Awesome! I think it's the same warmth you get with the MSS bivy and intermediate bag but less bulk and weight.
@@GruntProof packed up my bag today, definitely underestimated the pack volume winter bags take up. I even beat up the carinthia a bit more and got it even smaller but with 3 days of food and a standard thru hike load out and only 2.1L of water I am topped out. Do you happen to have one of those smaller USMC sealine compression sacks with the one way valve? If so are you able to appreciably get the carinthia smaller than its standard stuff sack? Trying to see if it is worth buying.
I don't use the stuff sacks. You always lose space that way.
@@GruntProof just a FYI if anyone is curious, got the USMC sealine compression sack in the mail today and was able to get the size about 10-15% smaller. Since I run Ultralight packs on my long trips I can’t go w/o a compression bag.. you aren’t able to push against the ruck enough to get the bag compressed, you’d tear it apart.
Ok cool. Yea I give the UL people crap for that one 🤣
Excellent find. Have you tested this in extreme sub -40 temps? I'm interested if the Carinthia Defence + MSS Goretex Bivvy truly can replace the rest of the MSS for those extreme cold temps. Always looking for ways to save weight, space and cost while keeping up that rugged longevity.
I honestly doubt the MSS can do those temps. The lowest I've done was -20 c
@@GruntProof Yeah, the MSS claims that when all 3 bags are used together the system is rated to provide 4 hours sleep at -40° F (-40º C) and they also claim that when you add ECWCS Layer 7 it can potentially provide a combined warmth down to -50º F (-45º C).
Now obviously these may be under unrealistic, ideal conditions.
If anyone knows the truth of these claims it's guys like you. Thanks for all the excellent reviews and testing you do.
I've met guys who slept like that and they said outside of army training conditions, that would be doable
Can i fit the large Defence 4 inside a MSS bivy cover or is it to long?
Also is it possible to fit a 198cm (78”) sleeping pad that is 25” wide inside the MSS bivy cover?
I have been using Carinthia Defense 4 bags (as well as Tropen, Defense 1) for more than nine years, i concur with this evaluation, though i usually use them within the Carinthia Explorer 2 bivvy bag.
Carinthias cold weather gear is of similar quality and utility.
Thanks
@@GruntProof From an old turret head with compliments.
I have this sleeping bag,too. The sleeping bag is quite controversial in the outdoor scene here in Germany, some love it and others hate it, there is nothing in between. I love it!
Hm. What are the complaints?
@@GruntProof
To heavy, to bulky. It cannot be used up to the specified temperature. You freeze too quickly in it. Those who advertise it have never really used it. The thing is just hyped. The zipper in the middle is not good, because You can´t use it as a blanket. And there is a discussion how to use it the right way. some say you have to sleep with al your clothes on within the sleeping bag, because it´s a military sleeping bag and soldiers have to sleep that way, because they must always be ready to go. Other people say no, you have to sleep only in your boxershort and if you wear all your clothes the system doesn´t work, because there is not enough air in it, which can be warmed. This dispute how to sleep correctly in your bag exists even in the german military.
I think it´s a miltitary sleeping bag. The focus is on durability and low costs. Yes of cours, I can by a expensive lightweight, small down Sleeping bag. But, the usage is not that one for what the defense 4 was built. The defense 4 is relatively cheap and very robust and keeps you warm enough under normal Central European conditions. That's why he's so popular. It is also designed so that you can put the Carinthia tropical sleeping bag in the Defense 4 for even colder temperatures.
Ah ha
@@GruntProof
It´s complicated and and I don't quite understand it either.
@@GruntProof I have it too, and my complaint is when you are inside, having the small hole to breathe, you get condensation, and you get the cold air through the hole and your shoulders get really cold. I miss a warm collar like in the Def 6
I was in Germany mid sixty-six to dec 68, all we had was pup tents and whatever the military sleeping bags were, I think down, and cotton underwear cold as shit, luckily, we only camped out in the summer on our field test, and we had none of the high-tech gear you have today, The beer was good though and I made sure to drink my share and then some. It sucks when you have an office job and then have to go out in the field your body isn't used to the cold.
The Dutch, German and English versions of this can often be found for a fraction of the cost of a new Carinthia Defense 4. However, the Finnish M05 version may be the cats meow of this bag. I don't own it, yet, but the British version is pretty sweet.
What's the British version's name?
Yeah +1 for what's the British version called?
@@SniffBackBetter sorry didn't see these! It is just the British Modular sleep system.
@@senorwilliams3969 sorry didn't see these! It is just the British Modular sleep system.
Any tips for finding places to camp? I'm in Stuttgart and struggle to find anything secluded.
There no secluded woods in Germany.
1. Map recon: look for places without trails nearby
2. Site recon: hike the area to look for hunting stands and other "people stuff" you couldn't see on the map.
3. Be prepared to leave
I've found that the only people in the woods in Germany are crazies like us or Hunters. And the hunters usually show up in their jeeps
Gloft is Carinthia version of Primaloft or Apex Climashield.
Hows this bag holding up now? Any experience with the Recon bags? I'm currently looking for bags and between this one and the Recon 4 or 5...
It's outstanding, just not comfortable for me
Def-4s big advantage is also its big disadvantage^^ roomy means bulky, means less effective. I prefer to go with jungle bag and bivvy and save an s-load of weight and space. I tested it to its extremes and the Def-4 is (surprisingly) not that much warmer, so...
One hardcore experience: without food but with a lot of marching in steep terrain, and with mild symptoms of flu coming, I spent a night in sleet and wind on a hill. Without tarp, expected were 5°C, we got -6°C - you gotta love the spring in Germany^^
it was rather miserable, but I was able to fall asleep, which is a good sign, sometimes one just shivers so much that it's impossible.
My civilian Snugpag jungle bag and my green SOL escape bivvy both look like they are total failures, but they are not. keeping me alive for 8 years now, great combo. and the SOL isn't even meant to be used on a regular basis, just for emergencies, but it's holding up great. couchcamper approved xD
Thanks for the input! Germany can offer the coldest winter in the summer 🤣
@@GruntProof haha yes^^ thanks for the output! amazing channel, I wish I found it earlier.
I'm a baby and try to avoid miserable :p. Which is why I think I should just take the weight. and space.
@@icas80 you have to warm up the bag so he can keep you warm, if you have too much dead air space to heat, it is less effective. A narrow sleeping bag may be less comfortable, but will be more efficient.
As a civilian and baby^^ I would think twice if I really need a military bag which was made with military applications in mind.
@@couchcamperTM I really like the idea of having the pad in the bag
You'd think da gubment would let you keep that stuff after 20 years. Sheesh!
Oh and Funky Flames - fun for big kids too! Love that stuff!
I have enough crap to keep
What beanie cap are you wearing. You have worn this in most of your videos. Where to get it from.
Condor watch cap. They come in cheap 3 packs
I treated myself to the defence 4 and the tropen bag strange question is the winter bag ment to go inside the summer one as dimensions show the summer bigger and less tapered?
Doesn't seem like it, not like the MSS
Hey great video! What bag is warmer in your mind? The def4 or the intermediate/cold mss as stand alone? How do they compare to each other?
The defence 4 is definitely warmer - newer technology. It's also a lot more moisture resistant. I just don't like the full enclosure of it.
@@GruntProof thank you for the quick response. If this anoying you check out the carinthia brenta. It‘s a sidezipper design with the attributes from the def4. It fit‘s perfectly with the mss bivy.
Cool! Yea I've used it in the open with the Bivy, around -7 C and was fine.
@@GruntProof www.carinthia.eu/en/brenta-p1468/
Does it fit easily in the bottom compartment of a molle 2 large ruck?
no
G-Loft is the insulation material, not the Goretex outer layer.
Got it
Do yourself a favour check the snugpak special forces 2 - similar thermal performance but lighter and smaller, also not as tough but you can baby it before bedtime.
Thanks
@@GruntProof no problem just be advised it's a much lighter outer material - similar to lightweight running shorts. So you really have to be careful with it but I've used it under a poncho for over 2 months below freezing and last week for 2 nights at around negative 13 Celcius +-8f with no bivy and wasn't cold - ok I slept in my Carinthia LIG 3 midlayer but still. Compresses to 25*23cm.
Was that music from the original Unreal Tournament?
Yup! 🤘😎🤘
Well, you got something wrong there !! G-Loft is the insulation !!! And there is nothig like GoreTex !! It might be DWR coated (not sure) but no more ! Nevertheless it is a great sleeping bag !!
I'll be using Eberlestock's overpriced version of this bag ( Bag is sold out everywhere else) at approximately 8,000 to 9,000 feet elevation in Oct,, and approximately 7400 feet elevation in Nov, Dec, and Jan while Elk hunting. Will probably be backpacking with road closures. Got this bag specifically for reliability, and weight to warmth ratio. I'm not a fan of down bags. Should be interesting. Hope i don't freeze my ass off.
I ended up making a video on it. More of a PSA and not a review. A watch before you buy kind of thing. I linked back to this grunt proof review. ruclips.net/video/uph1zNdaFis/видео.html
19D approved
Is this just single bag or a multi bag system? The website is confusing.
Single but they can be combined
02:45 : The coating is NOT G-Loft - and G-Loft also is NOT the European version of Goretex or ANY other membrane. G-Loft is the material of which the insulation of the sleeping bag is made. It's a special hollow-fiber that insulates rather well, even when wet or damp. It is not even the slightest bit waterproof or -resistant. The Defence 4 is a good sleeping bag, but you WILL need a bivy bag or a tent if you're facing bad weather.
Thanks
Hi what’s the pillow you were using please
from Firstlite
Lying in a Carina 4 sleeping bag at the beginning of September in Sweden we have a very hot autumn with an awful lot of mosquitoes. Have pulled a mosquito anorak over the sleeping bag to avoid mosquitoes even when I'm lying down In a bed canopy of mech . But the little creatures of misery find their way in anyway.
Hey, did you test the carinthia defence 6? thx
I have not, but I'd love to get my hands on one!
@@GruntProof np. already bought it. looking forward to use it - in austria. :)
What kind of watch are you wearing in this video ??
Garmin Tactix
Have you been able to test the defense 6 yet in extreme cold weather?
No
fleece fails frozen
wool for the win-ter
are these sized for boots-on usage?
No
Hey Randall what watch do you have on in this video?
Garmin Tactix Bravo
@@GruntProof thanks, is it grunt proof? Didn't see it in your Amazon links
So far it's great. I'll do a video on it this spring
What is the price on the bag and is it manufactured in Germany
Austria $259. Kinda expensive but maybe not for this kind of quality. I’m going to buy one
G-loft is the stuffing mate , not europe's goretex
You asked for video ideas. Here is one: comparison of the us mss vs the german „mss“ used by the Bundeswehr (carinthia def4+ carinthia tropen + carinthia goretex bivy). You can get issued bivys very cheap on ebay) www.carinthia.eu/en/sleeping-bag-cover-p2179/
g loft is the insulation material. It has nothing with the coating, goretex or waterproofing to do. goretex is goretex, and this bag is not goretex
G-loft is the insulation. Not the Outer Material...
Cool Videos. Nice to see American You Tuber somewhere in Germany. But your excitement on Decathlon is realy Strange.😁
Greetings from the lake of constance
Thanks, I am aware of the mistake. Decathlon is awesome! We have really huge outdoor stores in the US, but everything is insanely expensive. I have never see prices like Decathlon, for good quality stuff.
@@GruntProof hm... The quality of solognac is not always good. There are lot of Outdoor companies with cheap Special Brands in Germany. Check Out globetrotter.de=> friluftsliv. Not so cheap, but more quality. And by the way: I have a Special norwegian Military underwear to Test. Brynje super Thermo- perfect for rucking in freezing tempratures and the next Christopher Street Day. But absolute amazing.
2:50 G loft is the Filling of the sleeping bag not a membrane like Gore Tex!!!!
Got it
Non-bag-related question. I see our flag tattoo on your LEFT arm with stars facing away from the heart. Is that just the way the video was shot or is that how it is? Seeing dozens of flag tattoos, in and out of the military, was wondering when protocol you followed.
It's personal preference with tattoos
@@GruntProof ' I was just wondering if it had a meaning. You Army types always come up with some cool labels so was just wondering. 73's.. Puddle Pirate sends.
Try Wiggys, you can burn that bag. But great info if you never slept in a wiggys bag.
I've used both. Across the span of 15 years I've gone (not in that order) through one (inaptly named) Wiggys "Superlight" and three Carinthia Defense 4, for personal pleasure but also supervising groups in French mountains. Spoiler : I went back to Carinthia.
Both types provided me with ample margin in warmth and toughness for me to not need to babysit my equipment and my own person, and being able to focus on my clients instead. When I first got the Wiggys, I thought like you, that my Carinthia days were over. It only had two cons : not as windproof, and much bulkier. I slept down to -17°C in the Superlight, without any shelter, on a thin Ridgerest mat, in actual proper resting comfort, even once slipping off my mat and onto raw ice without really noticing it before the morning. That would have been beyond the Defence 4.
Nevertheless I switched back to Carinthia, mainly for three reasons. The main one was that the Wiggys lost its performance VERY quickly. After two winters the warmth just wasn't worth the bulk anymore. The Defence 4 loses performance with time too, but it seems much more slowly so. The second reason was that that windproofness, which was really extremely convenient when not taking a lot of care of my own shelter. However my newer Defence 4 have a much thinner shell than the older ones, and feel less moisture resistant and less windproof. The third reason was the overall ease of use of the Defense 4. For example the zipper, it's is so much better on the Carinthia, everything just goes as you expect. The Wiggys kept catching in every way. Same for the adjustments. (But I've been very enthusiastic about the Wiggys and some days I'm tempted to try Wiggys again ; but then I remember the bulk and I feel fine. Plus I don't do this job anymore...)
I love my Wiggy’s bags at Wiggys.com. Been using mine for decades.
👏👏
G Loft is not a type of Goretex!
*ÖSTERREICH!*
DOOD!
I love mine too. imgur.com/gallery/lwYrRD7 -10°C in a Hammock, still snug and warm.
Hmm ...
MSS is still the best!
The defence 4 is designed to be zipped up with your head inside the hood ,breathing out of the face hole .
Not zipping it right up mesns it's around 40% less efficient.
So , you can imagine how warm you'd have been if you'd zipped it up .
..superb bag ...
But nothing comes close to my system ..NOTHING.
Not the mss ,not feathered friends, not wiggy's ..
I have the buffalo systems 4s outer, 4s inner , and thermaliner plus buffalo special 6 shirt and specisl 6 trousers .
When used combined on the multimat ice mat self inflating mattress ,it's designed to withstand the coldest temperatures ever recorded in Antarctica .
It has no filling ...
It's constructed using a pertex outer and lined with aquatherm exreme pile .
The performance is not dimished when soaking wet and not affected after being stored fully compressed for decades .
Made in sheffield uk , originally deigned for Antarctic survey operatives in case of heating or accommodation failures .
The bags are also used to encase hypothermia casualties by mountain rescue teams .
And theyre nowhere near as expensive as the renowned feathered friends custom down bags used by luke from the outdoor boys channel ..
Am considering buying the usmc improved bivvy bag from tennier industries to go on the outside of my buffalo system... instead of my current carinthia observer plus bivvy..
Great videos btw ...