I think that has to do with the Commonwealth being less contaminated than DC. Consider that the Capital Wasteland was probably hit by way more nukes than Boston
@@Mobysimo That is the excuse yes, even though it doesnt make too much sense given the descriptions of fallout radiation contamination being aggressively destructive to equipment in fallout 3. But a fews words to hand wave it and its all good. (Despite showing the same levels of contamination in free standing water supplies). Truth be told, most radiation issues would be gone in the time of the setting if we followed proper logic, other than area's where contaminated material cant escape / be absorbed into the environment.
The river shouldn't even be that radioactive because it's flowing water + putting the purifier at the end of the river is probably the dumbest place to put it. But it's a video game so who actually cares
Honestly I think the tedious portion of Waters of Life might be deliberate. With what's about to happen in the mission, it could be that the intention is to lull the player into a false sense of security, make them switch off a little before all hell breaks loose. Granted it completely looses its power once you've done the mission once but for me I remember being floored by the arrival of the Enclave and being bored helped in the surprise. But yeah, even in that case it only worked the first time and that kinda sucks for any after that
I could see that. My bet though is it's to encourage the player not to do it before experiencing some random wasteland. "This is boring, I'm gonna check out that Dave place" kinda situation.
this is always how i've read it. you get a lot of little simple straightforward drudgework tasks to lull you into a false sense of security. i think running around is also a good way to get you a little bit annoyed at your dad in-game - it is just running some boring little errands. it makes it easy to think "surely, project purity isn't worth THIS much faff." and right when it's nearly boring... then it all pops off. kind of similar to the quiet time of Snake climbing that ladder in MGS3. the super bunnyhop essay about the importance of quiet time is applicable here, i think. in this case, it's quiet time of drudgery little quests to build tension before a big setpiece.
Was going to say this same thing. Even though it’s mundane, it also helps give you a moment to work side by side with your dad, and give you a quick sense of camaraderie with him, before the inevitable happens.
I thought it was to allow you to interact more with your dad by helping setup the lab so when he's captured it has more impact. Although a better quest design would be to do all the tasks simultaneously instead of linearly to cut down on the backtracking.
For newer folks, Jon is VERY aware of the kill requirements and pacifist options of Fallout 3/NV because of his fabulous Kill Everything and Pacifist runs of the games. Highest possible recommendation to watch (or rewatch if you're like me)
Oh my god you just reminded me of how I first found him all those years back even before the release of fallout 4 it was a short mention in a RUclips video about him doing a YOLO run and it sounded super interesting and here we are
My theory for why James wasnt willing to work with the enclave is that he learned stories about the old "western" enclave from the brotherhood back when he worked with them before you were born. Autumn shooting his assistant probably didnt help either.
Yeah, it's a real deal with the devil situation. Like, sure, you can provide the wasteland with clean water, but in the process you will be handing control over that water (and thus the surrounding wasteland) to basically actual nazis. I could certainly see why some folks would have problems with that. It's why people often have mixed feelings about Werner von Braun, after all. And as for the BOS, all James knew of them at the time was as a broadly philanthropic organization. He would have had no expectation of what they would become in FO4.
James is clearly a moral person at heart. The Enclave, who's representative just murdered someone in front of him in cold blood, is clearly amoral. Of course, he would oppose them.
I agree. The kill was Col Autumn's big mistake. After that point, it was reasonable to assume that as soon as the Enclave scientists were brought up to speed, then the Purity team would be disposed of.
@@Lokitsu1 The delivery of "Yes, Colonel." is intense. There is some restrained rage there. Project Purity was James' great dream, a gift of life itself to the wasteland. I don't think for a moment that he'd have allowed a faction with such callous regard for human life to have control over it.
And James has just spent a significant length of time being tortured by Brawn - a relic of the old world, who presumably is involved with Enclave/USgov. He might have compromised to work with Brotherhood in the naïveté of youth, but now hes a more bitter and more stubborn person.
And is it possible the James had knowledge of FEV and the possibility that an organization like Enclave could use it with purifier? He most likely knew what Enclave is, especially because he worked with BoS and was probably told to watch out for shady people. Thinking about it, he knew who they were when he was talking over the intercom so he knew that Enclave was bad news bears.
19:30 The thing is, James just watched like, the person in charge of the Enclave pull out a gun and kill an innocent person. For no reason. Would you trust a system to a group like that? And its not the first time, the enclave does it a lot.
I think James somehow knew, or at least was suspicious, about their plans to use the modified FEV in conjunction with the purifier to wipe out all life in the Capital wasteland that was even slightly irradiated. Or, you know....they just needed a convenient villainous organization to pit the player against so the story can move forward. Happens.
@@Jericho396 Actually that was Eden's plan. Which wasn't what Autumn wanted and made sure wouldn't happen, by having the soldiers answer to him. Autumn wanted to use the purifier to seize control of the Capital Wasteland and make himself a warlord.
@@BepisJones What I don't understand is how Lyons went from that to having a doctrine based around being charitable to outsiders. Like trying to help DC become free of irradiated water. Fucking Bethesda...
So, Fun fact about The Waters of Life; The Project Purity team is not actually "friendly" to the player until after the Enclave arrives. They are neutral! That's why Garza and the other non-essential characters can set off your landmines. At the point the Enclave arrives, they are set to the same faction as the player so that they do not accidentally activate mines you use against the Enclave during your escape.
"Maxson the second, the character that no one, either Interplay or Bethesda has ever bothered to give a first name to" (00:33:16). I'm honestly surprised Jon didn't figure out his first name when he read it out loud.
@@LikelyToBeEatenByAGrue Or since it's a list of Elders it could be like regnal names, so he would be Roger Maxson II regardless of what Roger he was named after
I really wish there was 1 or 2 more quests in between finding dad, and him dying. Just let my character get to exist with their father for a little bit before ripping him away.
You could ha e a little quest where you start talking to your dad about his life outside the vault, and he mentions something important your mother use to own that was stolen and he never had a chance to get back, so you go out to look for it. Hell, they mention bible passages so much that it could be your mothers Bible.
Every Fallout protagonist character...from the Chosen One to the Wanderer...to the Courier.. is always something of a tragic hero doomed by fate no matter his choices.
There's a bit of dialogue within 'Waters of Life' that nearly everyone misses. I don't think you've ever touched on it, but I could be wrong. James dies before you can talk to him after the Enclave invades, but he seems to have some dialogue either from this quest or some cut dream sequence a la Mufasa. If you manage to talk to him before he dies, he says something along the lines of "I know there's a lot going on right now, but you have to be brave," leading to you and him having a heart-to-heart about dealing with fear. I've found two ways to find this interaction; the more obvious one is to use no-clip to bypass the airlock and talk to James during his setpiece with Autumn and/or the grim reaper. It provides a somber, (if lorebreaking), farewell with your father. The other way is a lot dumber and clearly not intended, but doesn't require cheating. The flag for this dialogue isn't when the Enclave invades; it's actually when he tells you over the intercom to unclog that pipe. If you completely ignore his command over the intercom and go back to the control room instead, you can have this tense heart-to-heart with your dad in a place where it's completely thematically inappropriate.
Same. It was an essential early game goal of mine- get to the outcasts, do the DLC, then run the game in winterised power armor with a stealth suit and a guass rifle as bonuses.
Jon has been playing this game on the channel for 10 years now and I still don't think he's ever realized that telling Liam Neeson that you WILL go with him in Vault 112 will make him appear in Rivet City as soon as you fast travel there.
@42:25 Interesting thing of note that I don't think was noticed. Glade said that the pool was up to 2000 caps (exact words were: It's gotta be, what? 2000 caps now?) but jon only received 1000 caps.
"It's not like James has some ideological difference about working with people in power armor, because he worked with the brotherhood of steel!" Yes... he worked with the Brotherhood of Steel, who likely shared stories with him about the Enclave considering they had fought a WAR with them on the west coast. Autumn showed up and told James to start the machine immediately, and James told him that it wasn't nearly ready to activate, to which Autumn responded by _murdering one of James's friends_ . The Brotherhood gave him a personal escort of Star Paladins to keep the scientists safe. No, it's definitely an ideological difference over them wearing power armor.
Even if we assume James is fully aware of the events of Fallout 2, and fears a scenario like Eden's plan is feasible, him killing himself is still a random decision. He could play along and leave later. He could do a better job sabotaging the project (if that's what he's determined to do) if he had more than 15 seconds to do it. He could follow literally any other course that doesn't guarantee his death when he's the best bet in the wasteland for ultimately getting the machine running, especially as he has a close relationship with another large militaristic organisation that lives literally just over the river who do go on to help you take it back later.
Even still, the best solution there isn't to pointlessly kill yourself. The Enclave still control the purifier if James is dead and the radiation won't do much, The Enclave have access to Hazmat suits and other tech (since Autumn survived in there.) Why not just turn it on and prove it doesn't work, then work with the Enclave to get it functional? Nobody knows that Henry Eden plans to poison the water yet. But James would rather be dead than see The Enclave be the ones to get it working.
I've also seen someone glitch through the door into the purifier. Since they were technically in combat with some soldiers, this caused the scientist to panic and cower. When Autumn was supposed to shoot the scientist, the bullets went right over her head. And again. And again. Then he needed to reload, taking a small step back. And missed again. And again.... He ended up huddled in the far end of the purifier before he finally landed his shot, seemingly terrified of an unarmed scientist.
I know Jon has covered Point Lookout extensively on the channel, but at some point I'd love to see a deep-dive into some of the other DLCs; mainly The Pitt!
yah, point lookout naked run covered almost every inch of point lookout, so it would be great to get the pit first or maybe mothership zeta. i suppose operation anchorage has some secrets too
@@johnhenryeden2947 I dont think Anchorage or Zeta have enough content for this kind of series, but there are a few optional rooms in Zeta that I could see being covered.
A little fact that Dusk neglected to consider during her blustering and threatening is that you literally had to tear through a sizable group of Enclave just to get to the Citadel.
It's always bothered me that Dad went into the memorial, looked around left holotapes, but yet the place is swarming with super mutants. I guess we're supposed to assume they showed up and decorated the place with gore in the small timeframe between his journey to 112 and returning.
I’m sad Jon didn’t use the flamer on the canonical conception bed like he did in a previous play through would’ve brought back so many memories and laughs.
I'm surprised he didn't comment on how the player's mom is voiced by Moira Brown's VA. My head canon is she didn't die during childbirth but got early onset dementia that meant the Overseer had to throw her out as her experiments endangered Vault residents. She settles in Megaton and tries to write the Survival Guide. She and the player wouldn't know what each other looked like so neither comments on it.
@@PlebNC i mean "inside the Vault" looks pretty much like every other metal-plated room in Fallout. Plus we know that the Lone Wanderer has "tainted" DNA from the wasteland thanks to what happens if you use the modified FEV in the last mission and then drink Aqua Pura in Broken Steel
@@CaptainJZH pretty sure the tainted part comes from the whole adventuring across the wastes thing. Heck, you outright can get a mutation as a perk from helping Moira.
James read the script and knew the Enclave are big bullies so he didn't want them to get control of the purifier. Seriously though, I imagine it's because it was his life's work, his baby, and he didn't want a group of aggressive militaristic strangers coming in and taking not only control of the project, but control of the water. It's kind of like the arguments about the cure in the Last of Us and (if it had been made) would the Fireflies having control over it be a good thing or even help anyone really in the long run. Keep in mind James didn't sabotage the project until after Autumn murders Janice to force him to comply. Up until then he simply tried to speech check his way out of the situation, but Autumn proved exactly who he was when he shot her, which told James he doesn't want this guy to gain control of the project. It's easy to argue that pure water existing at all, even if its controlled by a fascist dictatorship, is better than it not existing, but let's not forget that ways to purify water on a smaller scale already exist (see: Megaton and you trading scrap metal for them to keep their purifiers working), but giving a seemingly hostile military group control of a major source of purified water would also be giving them a great deal of political power over the entire wasteland. James knew/decided the Enclave weren't to be trusted, especially after Autumn shot Janice in cold blood, and also probably there was some level of selfishness (this is MY project) in there, and in an emotional/impulsive moment, he did what he did. Even smart people do illogical things sometimes. They're people, not Vulcans. Lastly, you can make the argument about the Brotherhood, but keep in mind James has not dealt with the West Coast Brotherhood, or seen into the future to see what they're like in Fallout 4. The only version of the Brotherhood he knows is Lyon's version and they're, largely, more benevolent.
35:00 Jon glossing over the detail of the age of Maxon II, when, at the very youngest, he was at least over 90 years old when he went out in a big honking hulk suit, his body no doubt not much better shape than a feral ghoul, and got knicked by snake poison. I'm not sure he had much longer to go even without the snake arrows.
Lol I was looking for a comment like this, who would be making a 95 year old man lead a combat mission lol, they musta forgotten some basic math when putting those dates in.
Maxson the II is why I'll never take off my PA helmet. Safety first, always. ~ Also, if there ever is a sequel to NV, perhaps set in a nearby region, the Vipers could be shown to have survived and been migrating, and they grow their culture once more. Really develop their beliefs, practices and so forth. Maybe be a major-minor faction like the Great Khans or BoS in NV were. You could join them and do special quests, learn unique poisons for weapons and unarmed moves for combat.
Oh it would be for everyones beneift After the Enclave is done killing everyone they consider a mutant and everyone else is indoctrinated into their xenophobic way of thinking or threatened to shut up with threat of getting stepped on by a guy wearing Hellfire Power Armor
@33:20 “Maxson II” would have the first name “Roger,” like his father. That’s why he’s “the second.” Or more commonly referred to as “junior” (Roger Maxson, Jr.”) or more formally, “Roger Maxson II.”
Suprised he didnt mention the cool animation of Autumn injecting the plot armor juice into himself, guess its fairly well known though, always liked that detail.
I can't remember if it's a New Vegas thing, a Fallout 3 thing, or a mod thing, but mines seem to have longer fuses the lower your explosives skill. It's not that you didn't bring enough mines to project purity, it's that you didn't bring a high enough explosives skill.
My head canon with why James doesn’t trust the Enclave goes back to the picture in Vault 21 perhaps he’s aware of the Enclave and their methods because he traveled from the west coast prior to starting project purity.
Even if he's never been to the West Coast, there's a reasonable chance that the Brotherhood at some point told him about the events of Fallout 2. If that is the logic, and James tried to sabotage the project because he foresaw what Eden would try to get the Lone Wanderer to do with the FEV canister, that makes the whole situation even more stupid, as Autumn doesn't want to do that at all - in fact, he actively stands in Eden's way to stop him - and if he had just tried to speak to James and not started shooting, it's possible they could have found common ground in both wanting to make the machine work...
@@ManyATrueNerd The Enclave are the bad guys. *The* bad guys, of the whole franchise. They represent a paranoid and violent past, one that demands that you comply without justification, and the only difference between complying or not is how quickly it kills you. James knows the Enclave are evil, and he has no reason to think that Project Purity falling into the Enclave's hands would be good. If he hands it over then and there, his dream of providing clean water to the Capital Wasteland - for *everyone* - is over. The only chance to prevent that is to buy time, which he does by irradiating the chamber and counting on the people he trusts most to use that time to ensure that the project's original intent is preserved. He doesn't know Autumn, so he has to operate under the knowledge he has in the situation, which is that the Enclave does not serve the greater good.
@Many A True Nerd how does James know Autumn doesn't want to pull a Fallout 2 and kill everyone that isn't Enclave? If the BoS told James about what they were planning from the Oil Rig, then there is likely nothing Auturmn could do to prove he doesn't want to engage in world wide genocide. Killing himself also could be an attempt to deny the Enclave the person most knowledgeable about Project Purity. Sure, Enclave scientists are unlikely to be slouches, but they aren't intimately familiar
@@420CAK Yep. He had the soldiers. He had the Purifier on Lockdown. He had all the time in the world. But he started shooting scientists. How did he know that scientist he shot didn't have some knowledge key to the whole operation? And why did he assume that shooting someone would get results that torture or threats wouldn't? He didn't even know what the hell was true or not, which is how James was able to scuttle the purifier.
My exact thought process between 18:11 - 20:16: Does Jon realise he's being irradiated? Is he going to do this whole bit while standing in rads? He's making a lot of sense about James working with the Enclave, but all I can think about is the ticking rad counter, why is he still standing in the rads?! GET OUT OF THE GOD DAMN RADS JON!!
Is it just me, or did the Mom's VA sound like Moira Brown? I never noticed that on my last FO3 playthrough, and now I can't get the image of Moira being some cousin (or half-sister) to the LW out of my head.
Well about the Vipers, this "snake worshipping faction", it seems we might finally another version of them in Starfield, because the gameplay demo for that game showed starting skills talking about a faction called "The Serpent Embrace", so yeah, i think that's what it is.
18:44 Jon, does the phrase "peace for our time," mean anything to you? It was said by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in regards to his attempts to appease Hitler by handing him a some of Czechoslovakia, less than a year later Hitler invaded Poland. My point is, if you try to give fascists everything they want, they will just want more. Autumn made it clear he was ruthless and willing to kill innocents to get what he wants. Do you think he'll have a change of heart just because he succeeded in getting what he wanted with violence this one time? The Enclave are evil, James knows that, Autumn just demonstrated that, and unlike you he's smart enough to realize that evil men will do terrible things so empowering them is a terrible idea. The Enclave's plan isn't to help people, it's to empower themselves at the expense of the wasteland. They are not the good guys in this story, they will not be the good guy just because you rolled over and showed them your belly. You have to push back at evil at every opportunity because it will never step back of its own accord. Evil will always try to take more by any method it can think of short of making a good deal for everyone. The hero must never capitulate to evil. How has the caliber of Autumns response not convinced you he shouldn't be put in charge of the wasteland? Do you think that's the first and last time he's tried to conclude negotiations like that. Just because both side want the same thing, does not mean that both sides want to do the same thing with that thing. James wanted to help people, Autumn wanted to control them, there is a pretty big difference. The water is not the end goal, it is a tool that can be used for good or ill. Elder Lyons at least shared James's altruism which is why they were willing to cooperate with each other, just a shame about his successor.
Yeah Just because Autum dosent want to use the FEV dosent mean he isnt a fascist like the rest of the Enclave It just means he wants to play the long game and turn the Capital Wasteland into an Enclave State where theyll do god knows what to anyone who shows even the slightest bit of mutation
"just a shame about his successor." which is where I get confused about James decision, I would understand James really not wanting outright horrible people to control the only large scale clean source of water for many many kilometers, but to work with the BoS which historically are tech hoarding isolationists with a genocide fetish seems illogical as well for James since ultimately if he has to use a G.E.C.K, the BoS will be all over it. Idk if Jon really thinks the Enclave would share the water, but I do get that James doesn't really have a concrete moral stance presented other than get the water flowing which he dies doing the opposite of.
@@sovietmoose5624 Lyons' Pride broke away from the Brotherhood because of the isolationism though. Unless the west coast hears about it and comes flying in I guess.
@@sovietmoose5624 I always just assumed that James looked at how Lyons was running the brotherhood and thought that was the norm and not the exception, or at the very least that it would continue being good after Lyons was gone, James felt like a bit of an Idealist to me. The relationship between the brotherhood and James isn't really described but I figure there was some kind of agreement on how things would be ran if it worked out or something like that, you know, actual diplomacy. As for James sabotaging the purifier, I figured it was a deliberate delaying action so that you and the Brotherhood could retake the purifier before the Enclave could use it. This doesn't really feel like a rational decision but Autumn did just shoot a colleague right next to him so he probably wasn't entirely thinking things through. Maybe he thought the Enclave would just kill everyone else there regardless of what he did so he felt pressed to take drastic action so you could escape. That's the impression of the situation I got at least.
I think James has an opposition to the whole “use the FEV in the purifier to murder every single person in the Capital Wasteland” bit. Ya know, the thing the Enclave is always after! Killing every single person they consider to be a mutant, which is everyone who isnt in the Enclave!
Even if he didn't know the enclave was going to use it to cleanse the wasteland , he probably heard about their actions of fallout 2 from the brotherhood. He should be very suspicious of them, at the very least.
Autumn isn't trying to introduce the modified FEV into the water supply. The Enclave, under Autumn's command, try to start the purifier anyway even after the modified FEV vial is given to the player by Eden. There's no indication that Autumn wants to introduce the virus into the water, or is even aware of it, iirc. The Fallout wiki handwaves it by saying that Autumn's motivation for starting the purifier is to make the Capital Wasteland a more appealing and liveable place, thus bringing more citizens to the Enclave (even though the Enclave don't control the Capital Wasteland in any meaningful way). I don't remember his motivations ever being even hinted at in-game. Honestly it's just supremely shonky writing. The nadir is the giant battle at the end, where the BoS and Enclave duke it out to see which of them will get to turn on the purifier, even though it literally does not matter who does it, as the end result will be the same.
@@swaggerjoh888 Yeah. Lyons is very open about talking about the War between the Enclave and the Brotherhood back west even name dropping President Richardson from Fallout 2. Its very likely he told James about then
@@chibiusawithagun7694 Honestly, I mever bought the idea that Autumm just wants to start up the Purifier. But even if that is the case, that just means the Xenophobic Fascists now have a massive source of power and influence over the entire Capital Wasteland and could likley turn into a full on state from which to spread out and kill every single Ghoul and Supermutant in the East Coast
Yeah that's the idea I had too. James is educated and would know the history of the Enclave, including their attempts to kill everyone. They come in and demand the purifier... and remember, in the endgame when you go back from Raven Rock to the Citadel you can give them one thing you learned (only one, oddly enough) and one of the options is that the Enclave is fractured between Autumn and Eden. The thing is this is taken as a big revelation, and the Brotherhood had no clue. In turn it's almost a given that everyone who knows the Enclave figured it was business as usual and they wanted it as a giant weapon to kill everyone.... without realizing Autumn is the *smart* one who knows that turning it on means they control the water, and therefore the wastes and their population (except for ghouls and supermutants who can live with dirty irradiated water and for ghouls it's better for them with the rads). Of course, that's a bit of supposition, he's so little fleshed out in what's left in-game that for all we know he is going to kill everyone and the only difference between him and Eden is killing you first rather than letting FEV do it.
I suspect that this would have failed the effort/reward calculus pretty decisively; but given the Brotherhood's technophilia, and their history with the outcasts, it would have been really fun if some of their interactions with you could be changed by equipping properly: Outcast power armor would presumably raise questions(whether about how they are doing out there or whether you were dumb enough to think that they'd be pleased about you possibly murdering one of their former pals); the Fort Constantine T-51b would presumably be pure gearhead flex; and Enclave gear (both armor and plasma weapons) would surely inspire some comment given that a lot of the Brotherhood don't even have energy weapons; and even the relatively outward-looking ones tend to take more of a "wastelanders are hopeless; but we have humanitarian obligations" attitude, so just popping in like killing a dozen power armor troops while repelling a surprise attack is just Tuesday would not be as-expected.
It always drove me nuts about FO3 that Dad & Dr. Li lost their minds about the Enclave getting control of Project Purity. "Clean water for everyone" is what they wanted.
RIP Paladin Reddin - hero of steel While I agree that scene with James just killing everyone - and Autumn surviving it! (pay attention tho, he injects himself with presumably Rad-X the moment James rigs the machine) - was stupid, from his point of view it might make vaguely sense. We all know the enclave would do everything in their power-armour to NOT have the wastelanders profit from that water - probably instead using it to fuel their war machine. Also I really enjoyed the interaction with Knight Gallows! That staring contest had me crack up! :D
Jon. How would you have the scientists work inside of Project Purity with Super Mutants IN THE BUILDING? Sacrifice a member of the staff for dipping every other day to keep the mutants from attacking/eating them?! There was no way around this.
I think he meant that there could be alternate solutions. Like smoking the mutants out, or getting someone else to clear the place out. But honestly I don't think it's that important to always have pacifist options. It would be nice, of course. For role playing purposes.
My reasoning for why James killed everyone in the room is that since he worked with the Brotherhood, he probably heard all the horror stories about what the Enclave did or tried to do on the West coast, trying to kill all mutated life and whatnot. So when they demanded control over something that would propel them to new heights of power over the Capital Wasteland, he did his best to prevent the scenario from happening. While the Brotherhood is flawed, the current iteration has the best interests of the Capital Wasteland at heart and is led by and has many good people, like Elder Lyons and Sarah, so in his mind, the Brotherhood is very different from the Enclave, even if their expertise and resources could have gotten the purifier running quickly, he didn't want a morally evil group of fascists to take control of the Capital Wasteland and everyone in it, or even wipe them out, so he tried to kill as many of them as he could and slow down the Enclave effort to make the purifier work to allow Dr. Li and the Lone Wanderer to escape and warn the Brotherhood so the purifier could be taken back. Plus, even if he did want the purifier to work over all else, the benefits that it would bring would be controlled and manipulated by the Enclave for their own gain. The quest still isn't written the best, but that's how I see it.
I have been loving this series. And if it continues to be this detailed, I'd imagine that; between what remains of Fallout 3, and what is yet to come in Fallout: New Vegas... There's still A LOT to look forward to!! 😊
The problem might have been how the Enclave asked They didn’t exactly send an envoy explaining the situation, they showed up in vertabirds and a squad and held them at gunpoint demanding their assistance. That might have just given James bad vibes.
I see bad faith on both sides. On the Enclave, they acted poorly. They had command of the Purifier as soon as they showed up. They could just hold the scientists until someone wanted to talk. Autumn decides to start shooting without even knowing who anyone is and what they know, and then lets James scuttle the whole Purifier, once again, because Autumn is an idiot. On the other side, I feel like James grabbed the idiot ball (or rather, pulled it back out of his pocket. He let his wife die in childbirth despite being a damn scientist working with the BoS and Rivet City, he abandoned us in the vault without telling us, which results in us almost getting killed, and he got trapped by Braun). I feel like he is partially responsible for getting Janice killed, since Autumn was an violent idiot. James could have just pretended he was working with the Enclave, in order to buy time to get everyone out. Hell, they spared that one female scientist who was willing to play ball. And honestly, I think she made the better choice, rather than joining us to fight a battalion of Power Armor Soldiers with Plasma Rifles.
Something I've never noticed until this playthrough is that at 18:15, you can see Colonel August inject himself with something, I suppose meant to explain how he survived. Rad-X are pills though and Rad-Away would do nothing for him since he just started being irradiated. Does this mean the Enclave has injection Rad-X?
In James' defense in terms of his sacrifice, he has No Clue what the enclave wants, as far as he's concerned a shit ton if heavily armoured people just invaded Project Purity, locked him in the purifier, killed presumably a close friend/coworker, and is now telling him to cede all control of PP, of course he's going to refuse.
To be fair the Enclave has a reputation prior to FO3 they tried wipe out all life in the wasteland in FO2 and 3 dog mentions them as being bad guys on the radio... the Brotherhood of Steel would have known about FO2 from the fact they helped the tribal take on the Enclave on the oil rig. Also James has his own FO1 style water quest that he was on, but instead of trying to bring pure water back to the vault, he wants to bring it out of a vault to the rest of the wasteland. We know in Jame's fallout journey he teamed up with Star Paladin cross and traveled the wastes, I think it's implied that they all met the Enclave prior to the Lone wander being born and the Enclave reputation preceeds them.
Jon - loving this series! Just wanted to note that there's no reason to give Maxon II's first name: by default it would be Roger...otherwise, there would be no reason to have the 'II' after it. I'm pretty certain they did this so they wouldn't have to deal with word-smithing/clarifying around two separate Roger Maxons in the archive notes.
I don't think Jon thought of the possibility James knows the Enclave wants to use the purifier for nefarious purposes, as anyone that's played FO3 already knows.
Since you love how much Dusk treats you like an outsider barely worth the dirt on her boots, rather than The Protagonist... you'll love a lot of interactions in Morrowind 😉 The *worldbuilding* in that game is top notch.
I hate the "playing tough until you prove yourself" routine a lot of games do. And Bethesda has a lot of these examples, like Vex or Tonilia in the Thieves Guild in Skyrim. I mean you just show up and they're already acting all aggro like you killed their puppies. It would be more realistic for people to be neutral/cold/distant towards you, keeping conversations short, but without insulting you, if they don't know you or if don't care to know you.
I would imagine James overloaded the purifier because he knows who the Enclave are and what they did out west based on BoS reports and stories from back then
I always assumed that the Gallow's name betting pool was a play on the similar thing in Saving Private Ryan where every one bet on what Tom Hanks' pre-war job was.
James is a smart man and he probably knows about what the enclave has done in the past word has probably spread from ncr and the shit the enclave has done
Imagine being an Enclave soldier having to explain to Autumn and Eden how they, a trained military soldier, lost their plasma rifle because a teenage wastelander with a handgun shot it. Sgt Dornan is likely very angry they lost their expensive military equipment.
Presumably, Maxson II is named Roger. Because you don't tend to call someone the second unless they share the name of the first. And second has a more official sound to it than junior.
Someone from the commonwealth needs to tell them they can make water purifiers easily with just a collapsed house and a few car tires
I think that has to do with the Commonwealth being less contaminated than DC. Consider that the Capital Wasteland was probably hit by way more nukes than Boston
It's even easier if you have the vault-tec DLC. You can make 2 or 3 water fountains out of a broken down car.
Who needs a purifier, all you need is some surgical tubing, a pair of glass pitchers and a campfire or hotplate.
@@Mobysimo That is the excuse yes, even though it doesnt make too much sense given the descriptions of fallout radiation contamination being aggressively destructive to equipment in fallout 3. But a fews words to hand wave it and its all good. (Despite showing the same levels of contamination in free standing water supplies).
Truth be told, most radiation issues would be gone in the time of the setting if we followed proper logic, other than area's where contaminated material cant escape / be absorbed into the environment.
The river shouldn't even be that radioactive because it's flowing water + putting the purifier at the end of the river is probably the dumbest place to put it. But it's a video game so who actually cares
“I can see the resemblance”
As you stand there in the Ghoul Mask
Well, her mom *is* a corpse… 🤭
The Wasteland adds hard years and deep wrinkles to one’s face if you don’t properly moisturize. 😄
Too soon Lyons!
ah, I get it. must be because James just died to radiation.
Honestly I think the tedious portion of Waters of Life might be deliberate. With what's about to happen in the mission, it could be that the intention is to lull the player into a false sense of security, make them switch off a little before all hell breaks loose. Granted it completely looses its power once you've done the mission once but for me I remember being floored by the arrival of the Enclave and being bored helped in the surprise.
But yeah, even in that case it only worked the first time and that kinda sucks for any after that
I could see that. My bet though is it's to encourage the player not to do it before experiencing some random wasteland. "This is boring, I'm gonna check out that Dave place" kinda situation.
That's actually very fair, and a good way of looking at it.
this is always how i've read it. you get a lot of little simple straightforward drudgework tasks to lull you into a false sense of security. i think running around is also a good way to get you a little bit annoyed at your dad in-game - it is just running some boring little errands. it makes it easy to think "surely, project purity isn't worth THIS much faff." and right when it's nearly boring... then it all pops off.
kind of similar to the quiet time of Snake climbing that ladder in MGS3. the super bunnyhop essay about the importance of quiet time is applicable here, i think. in this case, it's quiet time of drudgery little quests to build tension before a big setpiece.
Was going to say this same thing. Even though it’s mundane, it also helps give you a moment to work side by side with your dad, and give you a quick sense of camaraderie with him, before the inevitable happens.
I thought it was to allow you to interact more with your dad by helping setup the lab so when he's captured it has more impact.
Although a better quest design would be to do all the tasks simultaneously instead of linearly to cut down on the backtracking.
Note, on Twitter Jon has said an alternative title for this episode was "Why Gone Jim"
🤣
Very clever
For newer folks, Jon is VERY aware of the kill requirements and pacifist options of Fallout 3/NV because of his fabulous Kill Everything and Pacifist runs of the games. Highest possible recommendation to watch (or rewatch if you're like me)
Fallout 3 Kill Everything is the series that led me to MATN in the first place, so I can't recommend it highly enough.
@@Her_Imperious_Condescension Especially when it comes to American history.
@@AlchemistOfNirnroot
I just remember the Great Britant conquering most of it.
Oh my god you just reminded me of how I first found him all those years back even before the release of fallout 4 it was a short mention in a RUclips video about him doing a YOLO run and it sounded super interesting and here we are
My theory for why James wasnt willing to work with the enclave is that he learned stories about the old "western" enclave from the brotherhood back when he worked with them before you were born. Autumn shooting his assistant probably didnt help either.
Yeah, it's a real deal with the devil situation. Like, sure, you can provide the wasteland with clean water, but in the process you will be handing control over that water (and thus the surrounding wasteland) to basically actual nazis. I could certainly see why some folks would have problems with that. It's why people often have mixed feelings about Werner von Braun, after all.
And as for the BOS, all James knew of them at the time was as a broadly philanthropic organization. He would have had no expectation of what they would become in FO4.
James worked with the Brotherhood. He knows what the Enclave wants.
Jon: "Garza has a heart problem..."
Yeah, pretty sure the autopsy won't mention that.
"Co-morbidity" haha...
James is clearly a moral person at heart. The Enclave, who's representative just murdered someone in front of him in cold blood, is clearly amoral. Of course, he would oppose them.
I agree. The kill was Col Autumn's big mistake. After that point, it was reasonable to assume that as soon as the Enclave scientists were brought up to speed, then the Purity team would be disposed of.
Plus if he was working with the brotherhood there's a chance he's heard of the enclave and knows they can't be trusted.
@@Lokitsu1 The delivery of "Yes, Colonel." is intense. There is some restrained rage there. Project Purity was James' great dream, a gift of life itself to the wasteland. I don't think for a moment that he'd have allowed a faction with such callous regard for human life to have control over it.
And James has just spent a significant length of time being tortured by Brawn - a relic of the old world, who presumably is involved with Enclave/USgov. He might have compromised to work with Brotherhood in the naïveté of youth, but now hes a more bitter and more stubborn person.
And is it possible the James had knowledge of FEV and the possibility that an organization like Enclave could use it with purifier? He most likely knew what Enclave is, especially because he worked with BoS and was probably told to watch out for shady people. Thinking about it, he knew who they were when he was talking over the intercom so he knew that Enclave was bad news bears.
19:30 The thing is, James just watched like, the person in charge of the Enclave pull out a gun and kill an innocent person. For no reason. Would you trust a system to a group like that? And its not the first time, the enclave does it a lot.
The Brotherhood SCOURGED THE PITT FAM. EVERY MUTANT CHILD (except apparently the super bear bros.) They're both fascist military empires!!!
I think James somehow knew, or at least was suspicious, about their plans to use the modified FEV in conjunction with the purifier to wipe out all life in the Capital wasteland that was even slightly irradiated.
Or, you know....they just needed a convenient villainous organization to pit the player against so the story can move forward.
Happens.
@@Jericho396 Actually that was Eden's plan. Which wasn't what Autumn wanted and made sure wouldn't happen, by having the soldiers answer to him. Autumn wanted to use the purifier to seize control of the Capital Wasteland and make himself a warlord.
@@natsume-hime2473 See now that's the twist James probably didn't know about.
@@BepisJones What I don't understand is how Lyons went from that to having a doctrine based around being charitable to outsiders. Like trying to help DC become free of irradiated water.
Fucking Bethesda...
Jon: You know, for the first time, I don't think I used enough mines
Yes, I'm sure he's fuming in the afterlife.
So, Fun fact about The Waters of Life;
The Project Purity team is not actually "friendly" to the player until after the Enclave arrives. They are neutral! That's why Garza and the other non-essential characters can set off your landmines. At the point the Enclave arrives, they are set to the same faction as the player so that they do not accidentally activate mines you use against the Enclave during your escape.
About Maxon II. If he's the second, then he has to have the same first name. If he wasn't also named Roger Maxon, he wouldn't be a second
I was looking for this 😂
"Maxson the second, the character that no one, either Interplay or Bethesda has ever bothered to give a first name to" (00:33:16).
I'm honestly surprised Jon didn't figure out his first name when he read it out loud.
The second is given to a child who shares a name with an ancestor but not a parent. The one thing we can predict is that his name isn't Roger.
@@LikelyToBeEatenByAGrue Or since it's a list of Elders it could be like regnal names, so he would be Roger Maxson II regardless of what Roger he was named after
@@odinzan By convention, that would make him Roger II.
I really wish there was 1 or 2 more quests in between finding dad, and him dying. Just let my character get to exist with their father for a little bit before ripping him away.
You could ha e a little quest where you start talking to your dad about his life outside the vault, and he mentions something important your mother use to own that was stolen and he never had a chance to get back, so you go out to look for it.
Hell, they mention bible passages so much that it could be your mothers Bible.
Every Fallout protagonist character...from the Chosen One to the Wanderer...to the Courier.. is always something of a tragic hero doomed by fate no matter his choices.
@@Jericho396 I mean I get that, but I feel like letting us existing with dad more would have further pushed that tragic lose of him when he dies.
It's so wierd to me to see both the house always wins and the waters of life on the pipboy at the same time
There's a bit of dialogue within 'Waters of Life' that nearly everyone misses. I don't think you've ever touched on it, but I could be wrong.
James dies before you can talk to him after the Enclave invades, but he seems to have some dialogue either from this quest or some cut dream sequence a la Mufasa. If you manage to talk to him before he dies, he says something along the lines of "I know there's a lot going on right now, but you have to be brave," leading to you and him having a heart-to-heart about dealing with fear. I've found two ways to find this interaction; the more obvious one is to use no-clip to bypass the airlock and talk to James during his setpiece with Autumn and/or the grim reaper. It provides a somber, (if lorebreaking), farewell with your father.
The other way is a lot dumber and clearly not intended, but doesn't require cheating.
The flag for this dialogue isn't when the Enclave invades; it's actually when he tells you over the intercom to unclog that pipe. If you completely ignore his command over the intercom and go back to the control room instead, you can have this tense heart-to-heart with your dad in a place where it's completely thematically inappropriate.
Fun fact if you complete Operation Anchorage you automatically receive power armor training after the simulation is over
Why i always did it as early grinding before even going to GNR
I dont know how to tell you this, but... Jon knows that already
Same. It was an essential early game goal of mine- get to the outcasts, do the DLC, then run the game in winterised power armor with a stealth suit and a guass rifle as bonuses.
i much rather survive trough waters of life than playing shitty call of duty again
I was never able to complete Operation Anchorage. It always glitched out after the intro mission.
Jon has been playing this game on the channel for 10 years now and I still don't think he's ever realized that telling Liam Neeson that you WILL go with him in Vault 112 will make him appear in Rivet City as soon as you fast travel there.
@42:25 Interesting thing of note that I don't think was noticed. Glade said that the pool was up to 2000 caps (exact words were: It's gotta be, what? 2000 caps now?) but jon only received 1000 caps.
I noticed it too! I was hoping your comment would get an explanation
I was wondering as well, possibly the idea was that Galllows/Irving wanted half the pot for sharing the name, but it wasn't said.
I wasn't sure if it was me misunderstanding or if it was Jon's -1 perception again
TFW you get ripped off by the BOS! 😒
@@jeffhughes1318 the funny thing is how they made a point to say 2000 caps several times only to turn around and stiff you for half! 🐂💩
I love that Dr. Li is such a crabby-pants. When you are in the tunnel to the Citadel every time you talk to her, her response is "Yes? What is it?!"
I'll be honest, it used to annoy me, but after seeing her again in 4, it's kind of endearing.
I don't know if this is a popular/unpopular opinion or not, but Dr Li is one of my favourite characters in the game.
She’s also pretty stupid and oblivious to Jame’s obvious hints.
Li is pissed off and sad at the same time it's obvious she's got the hots for Liam Neesom . Now there's no way to consecrate that relationship.
@@potatopotato3284 same here!
Favorite part of every Sunday
Agreed
Shout out to my Ex for turning me onto Many A True Nerd, probably the best thing she left me with.
Agreed
@@a55a551nxki114x at least you had a partner into matn lol none of mine ever knew who he was
My favorite part of Sunday is church. MaTN is second only to the Lord Jesus Christ. 😇
"It's not like James has some ideological difference about working with people in power armor, because he worked with the brotherhood of steel!" Yes... he worked with the Brotherhood of Steel, who likely shared stories with him about the Enclave considering they had fought a WAR with them on the west coast. Autumn showed up and told James to start the machine immediately, and James told him that it wasn't nearly ready to activate, to which Autumn responded by _murdering one of James's friends_ . The Brotherhood gave him a personal escort of Star Paladins to keep the scientists safe. No, it's definitely an ideological difference over them wearing power armor.
Even if we assume James is fully aware of the events of Fallout 2, and fears a scenario like Eden's plan is feasible, him killing himself is still a random decision. He could play along and leave later. He could do a better job sabotaging the project (if that's what he's determined to do) if he had more than 15 seconds to do it. He could follow literally any other course that doesn't guarantee his death when he's the best bet in the wasteland for ultimately getting the machine running, especially as he has a close relationship with another large militaristic organisation that lives literally just over the river who do go on to help you take it back later.
Even still, the best solution there isn't to pointlessly kill yourself. The Enclave still control the purifier if James is dead and the radiation won't do much, The Enclave have access to Hazmat suits and other tech (since Autumn survived in there.) Why not just turn it on and prove it doesn't work, then work with the Enclave to get it functional? Nobody knows that Henry Eden plans to poison the water yet. But James would rather be dead than see The Enclave be the ones to get it working.
@@ManyATrueNerd I dont know about you, jon, but watching a close friend die might not let me me make the most rational choices.
@@ManyATrueNerd Honestly Autumn was probably planning to put a bullet in James's head the moment he gave him all the Project Purity data.
@@ManyATrueNerd they couldn't afford to get too many more voice lines from Liam Neeson.
There’s also a trick to searching Autumn and Dad through the bulkhead door. You can get Dad’s vault suit and Autumn’s special pistol
I've also seen someone glitch through the door into the purifier.
Since they were technically in combat with some soldiers, this caused the scientist to panic and cower.
When Autumn was supposed to shoot the scientist, the bullets went right over her head. And again. And again. Then he needed to reload, taking a small step back. And missed again. And again....
He ended up huddled in the far end of the purifier before he finally landed his shot, seemingly terrified of an unarmed scientist.
5:30
I love how Jon is so desensitised to glitches it is marvelous.
I know Jon has covered Point Lookout extensively on the channel, but at some point I'd love to see a deep-dive into some of the other DLCs; mainly The Pitt!
yah, point lookout naked run covered almost every inch of point lookout, so it would be great to get the pit first or maybe mothership zeta. i suppose operation anchorage has some secrets too
@@johnhenryeden2947god bless the enclave
@@falloutedits yes indeed, god bless
@@falloutedits Because no-one else will.
@@johnhenryeden2947 I dont think Anchorage or Zeta have enough content for this kind of series, but there are a few optional rooms in Zeta that I could see being covered.
A little fact that Dusk neglected to consider during her blustering and threatening is that you literally had to tear through a sizable group of Enclave just to get to the Citadel.
It's so nice having these videos release to finish my week.
You mean to START your week! Sunday is first, Saturday is last.
@@lylearoyii Settle down Lyle
It's always bothered me that Dad went into the memorial, looked around left holotapes, but yet the place is swarming with super mutants. I guess we're supposed to assume they showed up and decorated the place with gore in the small timeframe between his journey to 112 and returning.
werent the tapes there before he went to 101?
@@jakesimprich9155 Not the one where he talks about going to Vault 112 apparently.
Elder Lyons: that must be James's daughter, i can see the resemblence
STARES IN GHOUL MASK
I’m sad Jon didn’t use the flamer on the canonical conception bed like he did in a previous play through would’ve brought back so many memories and laughs.
I'm surprised he didn't comment on how the player's mom is voiced by Moira Brown's VA.
My head canon is she didn't die during childbirth but got early onset dementia that meant the Overseer had to throw her out as her experiments endangered Vault residents.
She settles in Megaton and tries to write the Survival Guide. She and the player wouldn't know what each other looked like so neither comments on it.
@@PlebNC didn't they move into the vault after the Wanderer was born?
@@CaptainJZH They moved in when the mom was pregnant, had the player born in the vault. Hence why the birth scene looks like a vault.
@@PlebNC i mean "inside the Vault" looks pretty much like every other metal-plated room in Fallout. Plus we know that the Lone Wanderer has "tainted" DNA from the wasteland thanks to what happens if you use the modified FEV in the last mission and then drink Aqua Pura in Broken Steel
@@CaptainJZH pretty sure the tainted part comes from the whole adventuring across the wastes thing. Heck, you outright can get a mutation as a perk from helping Moira.
God I wish every episode was like a hour and a half this is probably the best fallout series ever
Good thing people were nice enough to put loudspeakers inside of water pipes.
Col. Autumn is so polite. If he spoke like Foghorn Leghorn...
James read the script and knew the Enclave are big bullies so he didn't want them to get control of the purifier.
Seriously though, I imagine it's because it was his life's work, his baby, and he didn't want a group of aggressive militaristic strangers coming in and taking not only control of the project, but control of the water. It's kind of like the arguments about the cure in the Last of Us and (if it had been made) would the Fireflies having control over it be a good thing or even help anyone really in the long run. Keep in mind James didn't sabotage the project until after Autumn murders Janice to force him to comply. Up until then he simply tried to speech check his way out of the situation, but Autumn proved exactly who he was when he shot her, which told James he doesn't want this guy to gain control of the project.
It's easy to argue that pure water existing at all, even if its controlled by a fascist dictatorship, is better than it not existing, but let's not forget that ways to purify water on a smaller scale already exist (see: Megaton and you trading scrap metal for them to keep their purifiers working), but giving a seemingly hostile military group control of a major source of purified water would also be giving them a great deal of political power over the entire wasteland. James knew/decided the Enclave weren't to be trusted, especially after Autumn shot Janice in cold blood, and also probably there was some level of selfishness (this is MY project) in there, and in an emotional/impulsive moment, he did what he did. Even smart people do illogical things sometimes. They're people, not Vulcans.
Lastly, you can make the argument about the Brotherhood, but keep in mind James has not dealt with the West Coast Brotherhood, or seen into the future to see what they're like in Fallout 4. The only version of the Brotherhood he knows is Lyon's version and they're, largely, more benevolent.
This has been my favorite episode so far. I never realized how much extra lore and "character" were to the BoS. Thank you.
"we're going to recalibrate the equipment" Aha! That's where things went wrong! They didn't have Garrus to recalibrate the equipment!
Jon. Maxson II's first name is Roger. Having the same name is what makes him the second one.
35:00 Jon glossing over the detail of the age of Maxon II, when, at the very youngest, he was at least over 90 years old when he went out in a big honking hulk suit, his body no doubt not much better shape than a feral ghoul, and got knicked by snake poison. I'm not sure he had much longer to go even without the snake arrows.
Lol I was looking for a comment like this, who would be making a 95 year old man lead a combat mission lol, they musta forgotten some basic math when putting those dates in.
At least the voice line of the NPC was spot on.
"Walks into mines" *BOOOM* "What the Hell?"
Maxson the II is why I'll never take off my PA helmet. Safety first, always.
~ Also, if there ever is a sequel to NV, perhaps set in a nearby region, the Vipers could be shown to have survived and been migrating, and they grow their culture once more. Really develop their beliefs, practices and so forth. Maybe be a major-minor faction like the Great Khans or BoS in NV were. You could join them and do special quests, learn unique poisons for weapons and unarmed moves for combat.
Truly a wild day when John doesn't bring enough mines to deal with a problem
You're kidding yourself if you think the enclave would have let it run to let the whole region benefit.
Oh it would be for everyones beneift
After the Enclave is done killing everyone they consider a mutant and everyone else is indoctrinated into their xenophobic way of thinking or threatened to shut up with threat of getting stepped on by a guy wearing Hellfire Power Armor
@33:20 “Maxson II” would have the first name “Roger,” like his father. That’s why he’s “the second.” Or more commonly referred to as “junior” (Roger Maxson, Jr.”) or more formally, “Roger Maxson II.”
Suprised he didnt mention the cool animation of Autumn injecting the plot armor juice into himself, guess its fairly well known though, always liked that detail.
Given how Arthur really messes up the brotherhood once Lyons is gone, there's such an urge to strangle that boy while he sleeps.
TIME PARADOX
Fixed the brotherhood*
Praise that boy*
FTFY
Maybe the death of Sarah Lyons showed him that unrestrained altruism just gets you killed in the end.
Lmao lyons' thing wasn't even brotherhood. At least maxson only disregards a small amount of the codex and not everything.
I always liked following Dad back to Rivet City. Gives my character some father-son/daughter time before tragedy
Dad in FO3 gives me father issues. LD
Anyone else notice jon only got 1000 for the Gallows name quest?
Probably adjusted for Tale of Two Wastelands
I can't remember if it's a New Vegas thing, a Fallout 3 thing, or a mod thing, but mines seem to have longer fuses the lower your explosives skill. It's not that you didn't bring enough mines to project purity, it's that you didn't bring a high enough explosives skill.
Should be the opposite
@@mdb45424 Mines have longer Fuzes for enemies and shorter fuzes for you
My head canon with why James doesn’t trust the Enclave goes back to the picture in Vault 21 perhaps he’s aware of the Enclave and their methods because he traveled from the west coast prior to starting project purity.
Even if he's never been to the West Coast, there's a reasonable chance that the Brotherhood at some point told him about the events of Fallout 2. If that is the logic, and James tried to sabotage the project because he foresaw what Eden would try to get the Lone Wanderer to do with the FEV canister, that makes the whole situation even more stupid, as Autumn doesn't want to do that at all - in fact, he actively stands in Eden's way to stop him - and if he had just tried to speak to James and not started shooting, it's possible they could have found common ground in both wanting to make the machine work...
@@ManyATrueNerd The Enclave are the bad guys. *The* bad guys, of the whole franchise. They represent a paranoid and violent past, one that demands that you comply without justification, and the only difference between complying or not is how quickly it kills you. James knows the Enclave are evil, and he has no reason to think that Project Purity falling into the Enclave's hands would be good. If he hands it over then and there, his dream of providing clean water to the Capital Wasteland - for *everyone* - is over. The only chance to prevent that is to buy time, which he does by irradiating the chamber and counting on the people he trusts most to use that time to ensure that the project's original intent is preserved.
He doesn't know Autumn, so he has to operate under the knowledge he has in the situation, which is that the Enclave does not serve the greater good.
@Many A True Nerd how does James know Autumn doesn't want to pull a Fallout 2 and kill everyone that isn't Enclave? If the BoS told James about what they were planning from the Oil Rig, then there is likely nothing Auturmn could do to prove he doesn't want to engage in world wide genocide.
Killing himself also could be an attempt to deny the Enclave the person most knowledgeable about Project Purity. Sure, Enclave scientists are unlikely to be slouches, but they aren't intimately familiar
Autumn’s arrogance and superiority complex is what got him and the rest of his faction killed.
@@420CAK Yep. He had the soldiers. He had the Purifier on Lockdown. He had all the time in the world. But he started shooting scientists. How did he know that scientist he shot didn't have some knowledge key to the whole operation? And why did he assume that shooting someone would get results that torture or threats wouldn't? He didn't even know what the hell was true or not, which is how James was able to scuttle the purifier.
Only recently discovered your channel a couple months ago, but i'm loving the content keep up the good work.
5:00 those mountains in the distance seem mighty wibbly
Yes, Garza had a heart issue. In this case, it was several pieces of lead stuck there.
typical combo of hearth issue and lead poisoning resulting in quick death
@@johart309 He died while having heart issues, so we say he died of heart issues. :D
My exact thought process between 18:11 - 20:16: Does Jon realise he's being irradiated? Is he going to do this whole bit while standing in rads? He's making a lot of sense about James working with the Enclave, but all I can think about is the ticking rad counter, why is he still standing in the rads?! GET OUT OF THE GOD DAMN RADS JON!!
It's just rads, nothing one of the dozens of Radaways he's probably carrying won't fix.
I think some of the YOLO's or dust/frost playthrough left their scar on you
When you want to use mines, make sure you're sneaking. Mines get sneak attack bonuses, for some spaghetti code reason.
lmao this is hilarious
Water of Life feels like Early Development Quest.
Was probably done early on and never got back to it
Is it just me, or did the Mom's VA sound like Moira Brown? I never noticed that on my last FO3 playthrough, and now I can't get the image of Moira being some cousin (or half-sister) to the LW out of my head.
They really only use a few people for the whole game.
I love it. But geez, our mom is such a dork. :D
Well about the Vipers, this "snake worshipping faction", it seems we might finally another version of them in Starfield, because the gameplay demo for that game showed starting skills talking about a faction called "The Serpent Embrace", so yeah, i think that's what it is.
In my heart, this episode is still called "Why Gone Jim?".
Brings back memories from yolo when you tried shooting the enclave from that pipe
18:44
Jon, does the phrase "peace for our time," mean anything to you? It was said by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in regards to his attempts to appease Hitler by handing him a some of Czechoslovakia, less than a year later Hitler invaded Poland. My point is, if you try to give fascists everything they want, they will just want more. Autumn made it clear he was ruthless and willing to kill innocents to get what he wants. Do you think he'll have a change of heart just because he succeeded in getting what he wanted with violence this one time? The Enclave are evil, James knows that, Autumn just demonstrated that, and unlike you he's smart enough to realize that evil men will do terrible things so empowering them is a terrible idea. The Enclave's plan isn't to help people, it's to empower themselves at the expense of the wasteland.
They are not the good guys in this story, they will not be the good guy just because you rolled over and showed them your belly. You have to push back at evil at every opportunity because it will never step back of its own accord. Evil will always try to take more by any method it can think of short of making a good deal for everyone. The hero must never capitulate to evil. How has the caliber of Autumns response not convinced you he shouldn't be put in charge of the wasteland? Do you think that's the first and last time he's tried to conclude negotiations like that.
Just because both side want the same thing, does not mean that both sides want to do the same thing with that thing. James wanted to help people, Autumn wanted to control them, there is a pretty big difference. The water is not the end goal, it is a tool that can be used for good or ill.
Elder Lyons at least shared James's altruism which is why they were willing to cooperate with each other, just a shame about his successor.
Yeah
Just because Autum dosent want to use the FEV dosent mean he isnt a fascist like the rest of the Enclave
It just means he wants to play the long game and turn the Capital Wasteland into an Enclave State where theyll do god knows what to anyone who shows even the slightest bit of mutation
"just a shame about his successor." which is where I get confused about James decision, I would understand James really not wanting outright horrible people to control the only large scale clean source of water for many many kilometers, but to work with the BoS which historically are tech hoarding isolationists with a genocide fetish seems illogical as well for James since ultimately if he has to use a G.E.C.K, the BoS will be all over it. Idk if Jon really thinks the Enclave would share the water, but I do get that James doesn't really have a concrete moral stance presented other than get the water flowing which he dies doing the opposite of.
@@sovietmoose5624 Lyons' Pride broke away from the Brotherhood because of the isolationism though. Unless the west coast hears about it and comes flying in I guess.
@@sovietmoose5624
I always just assumed that James looked at how Lyons was running the brotherhood and thought that was the norm and not the exception, or at the very least that it would continue being good after Lyons was gone, James felt like a bit of an Idealist to me. The relationship between the brotherhood and James isn't really described but I figure there was some kind of agreement on how things would be ran if it worked out or something like that, you know, actual diplomacy. As for James sabotaging the purifier, I figured it was a deliberate delaying action so that you and the Brotherhood could retake the purifier before the Enclave could use it. This doesn't really feel like a rational decision but Autumn did just shoot a colleague right next to him so he probably wasn't entirely thinking things through. Maybe he thought the Enclave would just kill everyone else there regardless of what he did so he felt pressed to take drastic action so you could escape.
That's the impression of the situation I got at least.
I am legitimately excited every single week for this series. Just as much as I was for FA4 YOLO series.
"Gallows Humor" - a couple of thousand hours in this game and I had no idea that this quest existed.
I think James has an opposition to the whole “use the FEV in the purifier to murder every single person in the Capital Wasteland” bit.
Ya know, the thing the Enclave is always after! Killing every single person they consider to be a mutant, which is everyone who isnt in the Enclave!
Even if he didn't know the enclave was going to use it to cleanse the wasteland , he probably heard about their actions of fallout 2 from the brotherhood. He should be very suspicious of them, at the very least.
Autumn isn't trying to introduce the modified FEV into the water supply. The Enclave, under Autumn's command, try to start the purifier anyway even after the modified FEV vial is given to the player by Eden. There's no indication that Autumn wants to introduce the virus into the water, or is even aware of it, iirc.
The Fallout wiki handwaves it by saying that Autumn's motivation for starting the purifier is to make the Capital Wasteland a more appealing and liveable place, thus bringing more citizens to the Enclave (even though the Enclave don't control the Capital Wasteland in any meaningful way). I don't remember his motivations ever being even hinted at in-game.
Honestly it's just supremely shonky writing. The nadir is the giant battle at the end, where the BoS and Enclave duke it out to see which of them will get to turn on the purifier, even though it literally does not matter who does it, as the end result will be the same.
@@swaggerjoh888 Yeah. Lyons is very open about talking about the War between the Enclave and the Brotherhood back west even name dropping President Richardson from Fallout 2. Its very likely he told James about then
@@chibiusawithagun7694 Honestly, I mever bought the idea that Autumm just wants to start up the Purifier.
But even if that is the case, that just means the Xenophobic Fascists now have a massive source of power and influence over the entire Capital Wasteland and could likley turn into a full on state from which to spread out and kill every single Ghoul and Supermutant in the East Coast
Yeah that's the idea I had too. James is educated and would know the history of the Enclave, including their attempts to kill everyone. They come in and demand the purifier... and remember, in the endgame when you go back from Raven Rock to the Citadel you can give them one thing you learned (only one, oddly enough) and one of the options is that the Enclave is fractured between Autumn and Eden. The thing is this is taken as a big revelation, and the Brotherhood had no clue. In turn it's almost a given that everyone who knows the Enclave figured it was business as usual and they wanted it as a giant weapon to kill everyone.... without realizing Autumn is the *smart* one who knows that turning it on means they control the water, and therefore the wastes and their population (except for ghouls and supermutants who can live with dirty irradiated water and for ghouls it's better for them with the rads). Of course, that's a bit of supposition, he's so little fleshed out in what's left in-game that for all we know he is going to kill everyone and the only difference between him and Eden is killing you first rather than letting FEV do it.
Perfect way to wrap up the weekend
Usually in work on nights, so getting to see it almost fresh is a bonus to my week off 👌
I suspect that this would have failed the effort/reward calculus pretty decisively; but given the Brotherhood's technophilia, and their history with the outcasts, it would have been really fun if some of their interactions with you could be changed by equipping properly:
Outcast power armor would presumably raise questions(whether about how they are doing out there or whether you were dumb enough to think that they'd be pleased about you possibly murdering one of their former pals); the Fort Constantine T-51b would presumably be pure gearhead flex; and Enclave gear (both armor and plasma weapons) would surely inspire some comment given that a lot of the Brotherhood don't even have energy weapons; and even the relatively outward-looking ones tend to take more of a "wastelanders are hopeless; but we have humanitarian obligations" attitude, so just popping in like killing a dozen power armor troops while repelling a surprise attack is just Tuesday would not be as-expected.
It always drove me nuts about FO3 that Dad & Dr. Li lost their minds about the Enclave getting control of Project Purity. "Clean water for everyone" is what they wanted.
Too be fair they probly assume dark motives, basically a hostile takeover by power armor. Would have tried the same thing if paradise tried
RIP Paladin Reddin - hero of steel
While I agree that scene with James just killing everyone - and Autumn surviving it! (pay attention tho, he injects himself with presumably Rad-X the moment James rigs the machine) - was stupid, from his point of view it might make vaguely sense. We all know the enclave would do everything in their power-armour to NOT have the wastelanders profit from that water - probably instead using it to fuel their war machine.
Also I really enjoyed the interaction with Knight Gallows! That staring contest had me crack up! :D
"Mining in here was not a good idea" and then proceeds to keep mining inside right after. Aw, Jon. Never change. lol
The Gallows name is a direct lift from the movie, 'Saving Private Ryan' - Tom Hanks' character name is a key point in the film
Jon. How would you have the scientists work inside of Project Purity with Super Mutants IN THE BUILDING? Sacrifice a member of the staff for dipping every other day to keep the mutants from attacking/eating them?! There was no way around this.
I think he meant that there could be alternate solutions. Like smoking the mutants out, or getting someone else to clear the place out.
But honestly I don't think it's that important to always have pacifist options. It would be nice, of course. For role playing purposes.
It would be cool if you could find like a robot in the basement or something to help you kill them
My reasoning for why James killed everyone in the room is that since he worked with the Brotherhood, he probably heard all the horror stories about what the Enclave did or tried to do on the West coast, trying to kill all mutated life and whatnot. So when they demanded control over something that would propel them to new heights of power over the Capital Wasteland, he did his best to prevent the scenario from happening. While the Brotherhood is flawed, the current iteration has the best interests of the Capital Wasteland at heart and is led by and has many good people, like Elder Lyons and Sarah, so in his mind, the Brotherhood is very different from the Enclave, even if their expertise and resources could have gotten the purifier running quickly, he didn't want a morally evil group of fascists to take control of the Capital Wasteland and everyone in it, or even wipe them out, so he tried to kill as many of them as he could and slow down the Enclave effort to make the purifier work to allow Dr. Li and the Lone Wanderer to escape and warn the Brotherhood so the purifier could be taken back. Plus, even if he did want the purifier to work over all else, the benefits that it would bring would be controlled and manipulated by the Enclave for their own gain. The quest still isn't written the best, but that's how I see it.
I have been loving this series. And if it continues to be this detailed, I'd imagine that; between what remains of Fallout 3, and what is yet to come in Fallout: New Vegas... There's still A LOT to look forward to!! 😊
I wish there was Jon Companion who trails off muttering to himself while pacing
The problem might have been how the Enclave asked
They didn’t exactly send an envoy explaining the situation, they showed up in vertabirds and a squad and held them at gunpoint demanding their assistance. That might have just given James bad vibes.
I see bad faith on both sides. On the Enclave, they acted poorly. They had command of the Purifier as soon as they showed up. They could just hold the scientists until someone wanted to talk. Autumn decides to start shooting without even knowing who anyone is and what they know, and then lets James scuttle the whole Purifier, once again, because Autumn is an idiot.
On the other side, I feel like James grabbed the idiot ball (or rather, pulled it back out of his pocket. He let his wife die in childbirth despite being a damn scientist working with the BoS and Rivet City, he abandoned us in the vault without telling us, which results in us almost getting killed, and he got trapped by Braun). I feel like he is partially responsible for getting Janice killed, since Autumn was an violent idiot. James could have just pretended he was working with the Enclave, in order to buy time to get everyone out. Hell, they spared that one female scientist who was willing to play ball. And honestly, I think she made the better choice, rather than joining us to fight a battalion of Power Armor Soldiers with Plasma Rifles.
Something I've never noticed until this playthrough is that at 18:15, you can see Colonel August inject himself with something, I suppose meant to explain how he survived. Rad-X are pills though and Rad-Away would do nothing for him since he just started being irradiated. Does this mean the Enclave has injection Rad-X?
When you're laying down piles of mines, you're supposed to sing "Do, dee-do do, do".
In James' defense in terms of his sacrifice, he has No Clue what the enclave wants, as far as he's concerned a shit ton if heavily armoured people just invaded Project Purity, locked him in the purifier, killed presumably a close friend/coworker, and is now telling him to cede all control of PP, of course he's going to refuse.
To be fair the Enclave has a reputation prior to FO3 they tried wipe out all life in the wasteland in FO2 and 3 dog mentions them as being bad guys on the radio... the Brotherhood of Steel would have known about FO2 from the fact they helped the tribal take on the Enclave on the oil rig.
Also James has his own FO1 style water quest that he was on, but instead of trying to bring pure water back to the vault, he wants to bring it out of a vault to the rest of the wasteland.
We know in Jame's fallout journey he teamed up with Star Paladin cross and traveled the wastes, I think it's implied that they all met the Enclave prior to the Lone wander being born and the Enclave reputation preceeds them.
Jon - loving this series! Just wanted to note that there's no reason to give Maxon II's first name: by default it would be Roger...otherwise, there would be no reason to have the 'II' after it. I'm pretty certain they did this so they wouldn't have to deal with word-smithing/clarifying around two separate Roger Maxons in the archive notes.
Not enough room for junior
@@mdb45424 If they did that they'd probably also have to add senior after his father's name...that or refer to the leader of BoS as "Junior".
I don't think Jon thought of the possibility James knows the Enclave wants to use the purifier for nefarious purposes, as anyone that's played FO3 already knows.
I always assumed that Maxon II was always Roger, just like his dad… hence “The Second”.
Since you love how much Dusk treats you like an outsider barely worth the dirt on her boots, rather than The Protagonist... you'll love a lot of interactions in Morrowind 😉
The *worldbuilding* in that game is top notch.
I hate the "playing tough until you prove yourself" routine a lot of games do. And Bethesda has a lot of these examples, like Vex or Tonilia in the Thieves Guild in Skyrim. I mean you just show up and they're already acting all aggro like you killed their puppies. It would be more realistic for people to be neutral/cold/distant towards you, keeping conversations short, but without insulting you, if they don't know you or if don't care to know you.
i wonder how jon felt seeing the paladins wearing t51 after all the trouble he went through to get his own "unique armor"
Does that mean that next week we get to meet the greatest guys in the game? Could it be time for the one, the many, Gary?
CONSISTENTLY the best show in YT atm. I live for this.
I was today years old when I realised Moira and your mum have the same voice
Maxon the Second doesn't need a full name because since he's the "second" his full name is the exact same as Maxon the First.
I remember during your "KIll Everything" days you hearing that tape then using a flame thrower to "cleanse" the bed. Fun times....
If its Maxson II then he's also named Roger. Hence why he's the second.
In the context of this playthrough it's pretty funny Jon is mad about having to kill things
Spec ops makes Irving sound like an optometrist, lol.
I would imagine James overloaded the purifier because he knows who the Enclave are and what they did out west based on BoS reports and stories from back then
I always assumed that the Gallow's name betting pool was a play on the similar thing in Saving Private Ryan where every one bet on what Tom Hanks' pre-war job was.
James is a smart man and he probably knows about what the enclave has done in the past word has probably spread from ncr and the shit the enclave has done
Imagine being an Enclave soldier having to explain to Autumn and Eden how they, a trained military soldier, lost their plasma rifle because a teenage wastelander with a handgun shot it.
Sgt Dornan is likely very angry they lost their expensive military equipment.
Scribe Jameson: "I want pre-war pictures of Spider-Man!"
18:33 In the voice of Jeremy Scott: Jon would be great at CinemaSins **sin counter ding SFX**
I believe James is opposed to the racial supremacist views of the Enclave. Also, I'd kill to see Jon play the 3D FPS Fallout 2 project
Presumably, Maxson II is named Roger. Because you don't tend to call someone the second unless they share the name of the first. And second has a more official sound to it than junior.
"step the next" is my favorite Jon-ism