If you like my videos, consider supporting us on Patreon! Tiers start at $2 and you get early access to videos, weekly updates on projects, and other stuff (especially at the higher tiers: $4, $7, $10). We’ve been thinking about adding content and doing more things, but we need an audience to bounce ideas off of first! If you’re interested in supporting us, we’d be extremely thankful. www.patreon.com/thegamingdiscourse NOTES: -When I talk about Double Agent, unless I specifiy otherwise, I’m talking about Montreal’s Double Agent. -There are a few parts of Conviction where you can’t be seen (the beginning of Third Echelon HQ and the Fairgrounds). But these sections are brief and not part of a comprehensive emphasis on staying unseen and unheard, like other Splinter Cells have. -Different modes in Deniable Ops have different levels, so they aren’t all great (I’m not a fan of the defend missions in Deniable Ops). But the levels I’m talking about here are used in Hunter mode. -I say torture has always been an ineffective way of getting information. I believe this is considered true enough that I don’t need to cite a ton of sources. But if you’re curious, the Senate Intelligence Commitee’s 2014 report on the CIA’s use of torture between 2001 and 2009 is one source that details the brutality and ineffectivness of torture. www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/publications/CRPT-113srpt288.pdf
Thanks for continuing this series! Really looking forward to the next part! I can't say I agree with everything. Sam beating Grim likely has nothing to do with Maxime Beland's antics behind the scenes at Ubisoft, nor are an intentional allegory for that. (Which seems to be the implication in this video.) I don't really see the issue with Conviction's interrogation scenes other than having less control than interrogation in the first 4 games. I think you may be looking into things too much by trying to make a real-world comparison to these elements of the game, or trying to find some type of deeper theme. For me, the major issues with Conviction's story is A, Director Williams being replaced by Reed for no reason and B, Displace being replaced by Black Arrow for no reason. (BA used to be Displace before being bought by Galliard.) These things make Conviction feel rather disjointed from Double Agent. I also agree the campaign felt a little too short. I will always maintain that killing off Lambert and shaking up the series in DA was something that needed to be done. The OG trilogy was the same every game storywise (Sam, Grim, Lambert, 3E, International threat related to Information, etc) The series' identity needed to evolve from that, and Conviction is the transitional game from the Third to Fourth Echelon era. Only issue is, Blacklist hasn't gotten a sequel, so Splinter Cell's modern day identity hasn't been solidified beyond non-game media. (Novels, Ghost Recon Sam cameos, etc)
I don't know. I liked the game, as I liked the previous ones. It's shows how dangerous Sam is and I am thankful to see this version of Sam. It is like mini spin off of the regular gameplay. Chaos Theory stil is the best of the saga.
You'll make me restart playing the whole franchise again...including Pandora Tomorrow...I miss the jungle missions tbh. Nice video, very well put together and solid arguments. And we really need at least one Splinter Cell game with Sam (voiced by Michael Irondise) as main protagonist...or at least as a "handler" for a younger Splinter Cell....
There was that 2007 version of conviction that seemed to play stealthily, although instead of blending in with darkness at some guarded building, the stealth would have sam blend in with crowds at public areas, it seems like leftovers of this are still in the final game, where so I've been told, in the few public areas the final game has, if the player moves into the space of a bunch of civilian NPC'S, the noir filter (that usually tells us we're hidden in darkness) shows up for some reason Also due to no light & shadow stealth (although I've heard that as the game would go on, sam gets access to equipment like lockpicks, night vision goggles and his classic stealth suit, the later levels would start to be more about breaking and entering with light & shadow stealth), people didn't like the 2007 conviction, so ubi redesigned the game to what we got now, another remnant of the old conviction is a cancelled, but leaked DS port, that played like the early top-down metal gear games (on an unrelated note, if ubi makes a portable or mobile SC game, the classic top-down vision cone mgs gameplay, but with the SC/thief light & shadow system doesn't seem like a bad idea), but with a disguise mechanic, there is a longplay of it on youtube if you wanna see it Also yeah i agree with you that they turned williams into reed at some point during development, so i headcanon them as the same guy, so as to add more connections between DA and conviction, as well as give more reasons for sam to be motivated to hate reed/williams Either way some good things i can say about the conviction we got is that: sams got some decent fashion sense outside the field (although i would've liked to see him equip a maskless varient of the 3E eclipse suit alongside those goggles in the third echelon HQ mission), i liked the fugitive vibe (2007 conviction would've heavily leaned into that though lmao), and i like how sam starts off with just a pistol and car mirror (i wish there was more "low-budget" & improvised weapons and gadgets for sam during this off the grid adventure) i dont think its "not an SC game", just a very simplified one (but thats to its detriment, as seen by the fact its my least fav SC game), same thing can be said for hitman absolution lol
I actually knew a guy with the same Williams perspective as you on Reddit, happen to be the same guy by chance? But to add to what you say below that, I always call conviction the absolution of SC
@@ThirdEchelonAgent neat, hey ^^ And noted, I recently bought a Hitman game for ps3 but I forgot which one it was, could’ve been absolution, I plan on getting the others too
I'm still a huge advocate of slower pace stealth. But if you were to put the movement animations from Double Agent into Chaos Theory, I won't mind. That lunge sneaking walk just looks more realistic, trying not to produce foot noise.
Doing a full series playthrough currently. I'm up to double agent (360 version as it is what I played originally). I've never played blacklist but will be on this run through. My opinion has always been that the series peaked at CT but was fun and had some redeeming attributes in every game still stands at this point.
I wonder if you're gonna cover the books that tie into the games aswell. The main ones that connect are Conviction, Aftermath, and later Firewall and Dragonfire are Sarah's story.
It would be fantastic to see a remake of this series that combines the gameplay features and engine from Pandora Tomorrow and Blacklist, even if it's a new game that revisits past events. 🤷♂️
Conviction was alright. I hadn’t played Double Agent, but had played Chaos Theory. I just restarted from last quicksave every time I was even seen once. So I bypassed the health issue. My problem was of course that the support for that was minimal. Basically no reward, except I was Sam Fisher from The Perfect Score I got in Chaos Theory. The making Sam violent was a bit overblown. I just chose the best options. No revenge killing. It was fine. Not great. But fine. The story too. I probably should play them all again. Conviction I can take or leave. The last one I had to mod to even care about. I’m not trying to play gears of war. Gunning down folks from cover was not what I cared about. And Blacklist was all about killing. They had entire portions of the game where that was how you had to play. Boring.
This is the one game in the series I have the least good to say about. As much as I disliked Blacklist, at least that one had solid action and got one laugh out of me.
If you like my videos, consider supporting us on Patreon! Tiers start at $2 and you get early access to videos, weekly updates on projects, and other stuff (especially at the higher tiers: $4, $7, $10). We’ve been thinking about adding content and doing more things, but we need an audience to bounce ideas off of first! If you’re interested in supporting us, we’d be extremely thankful.
www.patreon.com/thegamingdiscourse
NOTES:
-When I talk about Double Agent, unless I specifiy otherwise, I’m talking about Montreal’s Double Agent.
-There are a few parts of Conviction where you can’t be seen (the beginning of Third Echelon HQ and the Fairgrounds). But these sections are brief and not part of a comprehensive emphasis on staying unseen and unheard, like other Splinter Cells have.
-Different modes in Deniable Ops have different levels, so they aren’t all great (I’m not a fan of the defend missions in Deniable Ops). But the levels I’m talking about here are used in Hunter mode.
-I say torture has always been an ineffective way of getting information. I believe this is considered true enough that I don’t need to cite a ton of sources. But if you’re curious, the Senate Intelligence Commitee’s 2014 report on the CIA’s use of torture between 2001 and 2009 is one source that details the brutality and ineffectivness of torture.
www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/publications/CRPT-113srpt288.pdf
You act like you don’t like the story your complete stupid
Thanks for continuing this series! Really looking forward to the next part!
I can't say I agree with everything. Sam beating Grim likely has nothing to do with Maxime Beland's antics behind the scenes at Ubisoft, nor are an intentional allegory for that. (Which seems to be the implication in this video.) I don't really see the issue with Conviction's interrogation scenes other than having less control than interrogation in the first 4 games. I think you may be looking into things too much by trying to make a real-world comparison to these elements of the game, or trying to find some type of deeper theme.
For me, the major issues with Conviction's story is A, Director Williams being replaced by Reed for no reason and B, Displace being replaced by Black Arrow for no reason. (BA used to be Displace before being bought by Galliard.) These things make Conviction feel rather disjointed from Double Agent. I also agree the campaign felt a little too short.
I will always maintain that killing off Lambert and shaking up the series in DA was something that needed to be done. The OG trilogy was the same every game storywise (Sam, Grim, Lambert, 3E, International threat related to Information, etc) The series' identity needed to evolve from that, and Conviction is the transitional game from the Third to Fourth Echelon era. Only issue is, Blacklist hasn't gotten a sequel, so Splinter Cell's modern day identity hasn't been solidified beyond non-game media. (Novels, Ghost Recon Sam cameos, etc)
I don't know. I liked the game, as I liked the previous ones. It's shows how dangerous Sam is and I am thankful to see this version of Sam. It is like mini spin off of the regular gameplay. Chaos Theory stil is the best of the saga.
You'll make me restart playing the whole franchise again...including Pandora Tomorrow...I miss the jungle missions tbh. Nice video, very well put together and solid arguments. And we really need at least one Splinter Cell game with Sam (voiced by Michael Irondise) as main protagonist...or at least as a "handler" for a younger Splinter Cell....
the remake is supposed to have him as sam
There was that 2007 version of conviction that seemed to play stealthily, although instead of blending in with darkness at some guarded building, the stealth would have sam blend in with crowds at public areas, it seems like leftovers of this are still in the final game, where so I've been told, in the few public areas the final game has, if the player moves into the space of a bunch of civilian NPC'S, the noir filter (that usually tells us we're hidden in darkness) shows up for some reason
Also due to no light & shadow stealth (although I've heard that as the game would go on, sam gets access to equipment like lockpicks, night vision goggles and his classic stealth suit, the later levels would start to be more about breaking and entering with light & shadow stealth), people didn't like the 2007 conviction, so ubi redesigned the game to what we got now, another remnant of the old conviction is a cancelled, but leaked DS port, that played like the early top-down metal gear games (on an unrelated note, if ubi makes a portable or mobile SC game, the classic top-down vision cone mgs gameplay, but with the SC/thief light & shadow system doesn't seem like a bad idea), but with a disguise mechanic, there is a longplay of it on youtube if you wanna see it
Also yeah i agree with you that they turned williams into reed at some point during development, so i headcanon them as the same guy, so as to add more connections between DA and conviction, as well as give more reasons for sam to be motivated to hate reed/williams
Either way some good things i can say about the conviction we got is that: sams got some decent fashion sense outside the field (although i would've liked to see him equip a maskless varient of the 3E eclipse suit alongside those goggles in the third echelon HQ mission), i liked the fugitive vibe (2007 conviction would've heavily leaned into that though lmao), and i like how sam starts off with just a pistol and car mirror (i wish there was more "low-budget" & improvised weapons and gadgets for sam during this off the grid adventure)
i dont think its "not an SC game", just a very simplified one (but thats to its detriment, as seen by the fact its my least fav SC game), same thing can be said for hitman absolution lol
I actually knew a guy with the same Williams perspective as you on Reddit, happen to be the same guy by chance?
But to add to what you say below that, I always call conviction the absolution of SC
@unclelandy yeah same guy, hi landy
But hey at least splinter cell conviction doesn't have scantily clad nuns & 𝓕𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 sheriffs
@@ThirdEchelonAgent neat, hey ^^
And noted, I recently bought a Hitman game for ps3 but I forgot which one it was, could’ve been absolution, I plan on getting the others too
@unclelandy if you ever play hitman 2: silent assassin be wary of that annoying snow castle set of levels, I've played em all except for the first one
@@ThirdEchelonAgent noted
I'm still a huge advocate of slower pace stealth. But if you were to put the movement animations from Double Agent into Chaos Theory, I won't mind. That lunge sneaking walk just looks more realistic, trying not to produce foot noise.
Doing a full series playthrough currently. I'm up to double agent (360 version as it is what I played originally). I've never played blacklist but will be on this run through. My opinion has always been that the series peaked at CT but was fun and had some redeeming attributes in every game still stands at this point.
I wonder if you're gonna cover the books that tie into the games aswell. The main ones that connect are Conviction, Aftermath, and later Firewall and Dragonfire are Sarah's story.
Will you be doing blacklist?
It would be fantastic to see a remake of this series that combines the gameplay features and engine from Pandora Tomorrow and Blacklist, even if it's a new game that revisits past events. 🤷♂️
Conviction was alright. I hadn’t played Double Agent, but had played Chaos Theory. I just restarted from last quicksave every time I was even seen once. So I bypassed the health issue. My problem was of course that the support for that was minimal. Basically no reward, except I was Sam Fisher from The Perfect Score I got in Chaos Theory.
The making Sam violent was a bit overblown. I just chose the best options. No revenge killing. It was fine. Not great. But fine. The story too.
I probably should play them all again. Conviction I can take or leave. The last one I had to mod to even care about. I’m not trying to play gears of war. Gunning down folks from cover was not what I cared about. And Blacklist was all about killing. They had entire portions of the game where that was how you had to play. Boring.
This is the one game in the series I have the least good to say about. As much as I disliked Blacklist, at least that one had solid action and got one laugh out of me.