She directed a great WW movie.... that she did not write. She wrote and directed WW'84 and that film was awful. I'm not surprised her writing the third film isn't working.
From what I am understanding from Gunn's tweet was he is going to create a new cohesive film universe with the same actors, acknowledge the past films but move forward with a different take on the characters. When he made Suicide Squad 2, he acknowledged Ayer's work but did a different spin.
Patty Jenkins is a terrible choice for these types of movies. She has directed one good movie, 20 years ago, and it was based on real events. She wasn’t just doing anything she wanted on the first WW, it was supervised, she had a lot of help, and that movie had great moments but was just decent overall. Truly great movies don’t have a garbage third act and meh acting. When she does anything she wants, you get WW 1984. And the way things went with Lucasfilm, I’m sure that’s because she had an amazing idea for that movie as well, right?
@@philwalsh8975 For real. It looked like it could’ve been a Disney Channel movie. And even many of those were better than that. 😂 It’s like people just didn’t even care.
@KayKo In a way you are 100% correct. I knew Rian Johnson worked on Breaking Bad but I thought Patty Jenkins did too. Your comment made me research and, while she did mainly work on TV before Wonder Woman, she actually didn't direct Breaking Bad episodes or any show that has been in my personal radar.
I may have also mixed her up with Alan Taylor, who had worked on Game of Thrones and directed Thor: The Dark World after Patty Jenkins walked away from that film.
I'm still gobsmacked, that Wonder Woman 84 actually had a major plot point about WW basically kidnapping and sleeping with an unconscious man, and it's portrayed as romantic. WTF?
After one bad film, considering Spielberg made a film like 1941 after Close Encounters of the Third Kind, but he was still able to make movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., and so on.
@@MASSEFFECTfan101 I think it's more than that I mean wonder women 3 was probably due to 2 and that's 100 percent fair. The others are hard to know Disney has announced and canned a lot of star wars stuff so hard to say if it's a her thing and the other just maybe wasn't considered a good investment
After what she did with WW84, if they’re saying there’s continuity issues that Patty is ignoring from the previous films, then I’m inclined to believe them.
Anyone else exhausted with hearing all this? Just start over from scratch. Start with a long term plan, and go from there. Been saying that since BVS came out
From the credits it doesn’t look like Patty Jenkins had anything to do with writing the story or screenplay on the first Wonder Woman movie. Her only other major motion picture writing credit is of course the brilliant MONSTER from 2003. Perhaps writing for Wonder Woman is out of her wheelhouse. Writing sci-fi fantasy is a lot different than writing about true life. I appreciate that Patty Jenkins can recognize a truly good script and can visually adapt it to screen like she did with the first Wonder Woman movie.
I dont blame them they where involved with first movie and that was fantastic they gave her full control for #2 and that was a mess. I dont blame them being involved in the 3rd.
I think Zaslav made himself very clear earlier this year when he said these upcoming DC movies were good but they could make them better. It actually would be pointless to reboot anything. There are far too many already established characters just to reboot and at that point it'll be pointless to go watch any of the movies the studio has coming out. I think the studio is doing what they can to avoid trying to add whatever else came from the old regime into their plans. The next four movies is enough work to try and connect it. It seems like they trying to get started on their plans as soon as 2024/2025 which is why they offered to let Jenksin rewrite it to fit their story. She just chose klnot to.i highly doubt anyone is being replaced or even recast. I I strongly believe we don't have anything to worry about.
Yeah, when Patty Jenkins made the first Wonder Woman movie everyone was praising her left and right, but then after she made WW84 everyone instantly switched to “Patty Jenkins is a talentless hack! She should never direct another movie again!” It just shows how the internet’s perception of someone can just change in a millisecond, like how everyone was raving about how great of an actress Brie Larson is after Room yet after she became Captain Marvel everyone started saying she’s one of the worst actresses of all time, so in this day in age especially you should really just ignore the internet’s opinion on something because they can just suddenly change out of nowhere
John keeps saying Patty J is a "great" director... but is she? WW 1 was good, she did Monster a long time ago... and then...? WW 1984 was awful, and she's gotten taken off three major properties in the last few years, and hardly anybody can name any other movies she's done. I don't get the hype for her.
@@Igivegdparent maybe. i enjoyed ww 1 but the third act fight scene stuff wasn't, to me, an example of great directing. i'd guess action scenes are not her strength. my feeling of her is that she's closer to "competent professional" than "great," but maybe I don't know about directing to distinguish like that.
@@yegrosal ooooo wait you did mention something I agree with her directing for the 3rd act of WW wasn't that good I totally forgot about that part since it has been a long while
Seems like WB prevented another WW84... Good job WB! And while it isn't certain, I have a feeling the same thing happened at Lucasfilm with Rogue Squadron. The success of WW1 got to her head, and now believes that if she isn't given full carte blanche on a movie, she's too good for it. Movies like WW84 are why you don't allow certain directors to have full creative control on massive blockbusters.
@@ahappyklingon3631 wouldn’t doubt it basically being a soft reboot, not completely but dc could just line all the movies tied to the Snyderverse as another earth and would make sense as the comics and animated movies have shown the evidence of a multiverse
@@alexl.4362 They wanted Kathryn Bigelow, but she said "no". It's not official whether Patty was the next person on their list, but she was later announced as the director. The film never had a director until Patty.
If Gunn (who will be the public face of it) ends up losing Cavill, Gadot, and Robbie going forward, he will be hated and hounded online to a degree that would make Rian Johnson sit back and go, "Daaaaaaamn!" If the only thing that sticks around for thr reboot/new direction is Gunn's own Peacemaker show, that would be an incredibly bad look for him. That said, after WW 1984 I have little doubt that Jenkins' script for a third movie was bad.
I think they just need to choose a tone and stick to it, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, had a feel and a tone that was massively different from MCU and needed to be, and those movies had a huge fsnbase, but the studio wanted MCU money, but the MCU took its time to build to that, WB panicked and decided to completely change the tone, and its never settled on a tone since.
100% this. It couldve been built better but the tone and direction it was going was AWESOME! It felt way cooler. I dont want the same product with a different skin. I rewatch Zack Snyders dceu movies way more than marvel movies. BVS felt like i was watching a live action motion comic. It was so cool. MOS still gives me chills when that music drops and you see Superman just walking and his cape swaying in the wind. You can carve Zack Snyder movies into posters that look dope cuz the shots this guy takes are some of the best ive ever seen. Fine let Gunn be the overseer but leave Snyder there to build it. Make their partnership like a two tier Feige. I want that Snyder magic!
WB chose the Christopher Nolan 'dark night gritty' / serious tone after the success of the Dark Knight trilogy, probably thinking that (plus having Nolan and Goyer as writers) would work fo Man of Steel. It didn't quite work out unfortunately.
It sounds like WB wanted to make a conscious effort to fix the problems that WW84 had but Patty Jenkins wanted to just press onward as is, it seems like she was trying to do what Zack Snyder did with his trilogy, which is go “This is my vision for the overall story of this trilogy so I’m gonna make it how I want” I didn’t think WW84 was a total bus fire like a lot of other people seem to think it is but I agree it wasn’t very good, and if Patty Jenkins wanted to just move forward with her original vision and not care to fix the problems that that movie had then it’s probably a good thing her and WB parted ways
I feel like people often overlook Zack Synder's and (especially) Allan Heinberg's contribution to the successful story writing process of Wonder Woman (2017). Synder's contribution helped keep Patty's vision in line with the DCEU's feel and cinematographic tone (Though Patty's directorial choices were slightly more tasteful than Snyder's usual sensibilities). Whereas as Allan Heinberg's screenplay for the movie (and active contribution to the script), helped with the characterization of Wonder Woman (she had a balance of a Disney Princess-like innocence, high intelligence, sense of justice, Warrior upbringing, and a goal driven attitude) and the people around her. This is why his notable absence from the sequel (and a lack proper screenplay writer to replace him) resulted in questionabe (dumb) plot lines and bizarre characterizations. There's also comic book writer Geoff Johns (🙄), but he's (a bully & a snake) mostly there are the "lore/source material" guy (i.e., he's ensuring that his version of the comics are referenced so that he can get the royalties). So he's not much of contributing factor to the quality. Overall, the way Patty J keeps losing work (rage quitting because of creative differences) makes me think that she's not a team player and doesn't like taking other people's advice. Allan Heinberg infamously left the team after Wonder Woman (2017) was completed, because he couldn't get along with Patty-who made it clear she wanted to control the script. Meanwhile Synder was no longer around due to family issues and WB pushing him out. With him no longer involved, Patty wasted no time demanding that her film semi-independent, resulting in the tonal shift. So 1984 is the result of giving a director (with a James Cameron level ego) too much power, without anyone to balance out their ideas and directorial choices. I'd really rather not see Gal Gadot go-I love her in the roll-but her loyalty Patty will ultimately be her undoing (also Gal needs a new agent, because the film work she gets otherwise hasn't been great).
Yeah i feel Gal Gadot is gonna be forgotten soon if she doesnt get better roles which is a shame cuz i think shes a wonderful actress. Patty made 1984 like it was a cartoon from the same time. It was just so cheesy and boring. The cliches. The dumb lines. I dont like not finishing movies so i hated myself for finishing this one. I dont get the hype. I heard Monster was the shit and im a Charlize Theron fan so ill probably like it but besides that what else she got?
I think Gunn is going to do to the DC Universe what he did to the Suicide Squad: keep the continuity in place, but take it in a different direction. The 2021 film didn't negate the 2016 movie. I feel Gunn is smart enough to not throw the baby out with the bath water.
I think they need to lean into how bonkers powerful Wonder Woman is supposed to be. From being part god, divine, able to see visions from the future, I mean she can do Kratos God of War level kinda stuff. But, in the last movie they had her chase a truck.... _a truck._ Plus they depowered a ton for whatever reason, remember Diana is supposed to be able to kill Superman & Batman and in turn they're supposed to be able to kill her as well if it came down to it. It's a balance between them all which makes them a trinity of different moral choices which at the end of the day is only set right because they all talk to each other and reach the best choice for any given situation. But from the last Wonder Woman movie she seemed kinda like a c-lister who'd have trouble fighting Doctor Octupus. I love WW as a character so I was kinda let down by the promise 1984 put forth. Instead of diving into the decade it just kinda used the year to seemingly just sell tickets.
The movie was inspired by 70s & 80s super hero style movies. Hence the title. Don’t know how people miss this or want to judge it compare to stuff they are use to now in days.
@@GuillermoManzano-vl4qp That wasn't the issue at least with me, I got the reason for the inspiration but as someone who's pretty familiar with 70s & 80s style movies especially in the vein of super heroes and the like it just missed the mark because the character wasn't in line with who Diana was as a person. Like why depower Wonder Woman? Would you want an entire movie with Batman, Superman, or even Spider-Man being totally mostly without their abilities or skill for more than half a movie? Diana is one of the few heroines that can actually throw down with badass mofo's, crack continents, move at inhuman speeds, and take a whipping like no one else. But, they kinda took all the gusto out of her actions. Hell... I didn't even mind the body switch stuff and the magic rock actually did seem delightfully silly but totally inline with the era, not to mention some of her comic book plots. It was just hard to watch the character have trouble with normal nonspecialized enemies. I wanted to see the character that showed up for the fight with Doomsday, Ares, but to see her having trouble with just regular run of the mill fella's just didn't gel well. It would be like Superman having trouble with bank robbers or Batman getting his butt kicked by a Supermarket employee. I didn't hate the movie because I could get what they were going for and I'm glad they made an attempt but scaling back her abilities just didn't work for me. Part of her charm are her crazy visions, greek/roman/amazon morality, and her trying to fit into a world she's barely apart of but so desperately wants to understand.
To say that is not the Wonder Woman character is insane. Before this DC universe the only Wonder Woman content we had was the 70s show with Lynda Carter. Where she fought criminals. Not aliens or gods or whatever craziness you see now. Again, the movie was intended to be in that tone. You can’t fault a movie for what it attempted vs what you wanted. And as far as her losing her powers, that was part of the plot. And part of her whole arc in the movie.
@@GuillermoManzano-vl4qp I get what you're saying but even superman used to just be a character that couldn't fly but just lept everywhere, Batman used to be a tongue-in-cheek jokey sorta guy as well, and his show back in the 70s was kinda campy but fun. But time does change a lot of these legacy characters as they are updated. The ability to battle the big bads with your major top teir characters is extremely important. As a Superman fan, I roll my eyes every time we get yet another movie with him fighting Lex Luthor... what about Brainiac, Maxima, or Parasite? Imagine Batman instead of fighting the Joker is faced with Killer Croc, Lady Shiva, or hell even Clayface. The 1984 movie has such a promising premise but they even changed up Max Lords' power which originally was to control people. (Which was a huge missed opportunity) Now imagine Wonder Woman a warrior that's killed people in war having to hold back on fighting her well trained friends, lover, or best gal pal? Then you'd have a reason to have her withhold her power and learn how to take people out without killing them. Maybe one scenario is that she hurt one of her mind-controlled friends by accident because he was wearing a mask and she went full amazon warrior on him/her. How guilty she would feel.... That would make a great arc and allow for character growth and would fit in with the decade of decadence. The plot was just a huge loss of potentiality because it didn't really draw from her lore and everything you explained in your response still could have been achieved. The plot just didn't bring the character of Diana up to Superman or Batman levels. And by their levels I mean drawing upon what makes those characters popular. A large part of who she is is all about duality. Where Supes & Bats are all about black and white Wonder Woman can and often does exist within gray zone that leans heavily towards justice. Because at the end of the day, she can be a campy, poetic, murderous, naive, thoughtful, etc.. etc... whatever fits the story but making her boring like they did in this movie was a task I didn't thin they could pull off, but they did. But they opted to go with what we got and that kinda missed the mark.
The DCEU for the most part has been a disaster. Wipe the whole thing clean minus "The Batman" and start from there. DC has Superman & Batman, arguably the 2 most iconic characters in comic book history and they managed to screw that up!
Other than the Dark Knight Trilogy, all of DC films have underperformed, starting with Superman Returns. The hightlights were Aquaman, Wonderwoman and Shazam. Then WW84 happened.
I'm seeing more excuses here. Like, why are we assuming another regime did this? It didn't, it was gunn. Gunn wants a cohesive story line and patty didn't want him telling them no. It's that simple. Why start a new process by having someone come in and do their own thing right off the bat?!? And let's face it, patty has something going on cause she's losing alot of work and when she finally gets control over Wonder Woman, she failed. She didn't write or influence the first one. Patty might not be what we think she is. She had a chance to start with them and didn't want to.
mikebsexy These DC directors still think that they are to make stand alone movies they forget that now they have immediate bosses she would have consulted James and Peter first
I enjoyed the hell out of the first Wonder Woman, and I hate to say it, but the success of WW went to her head and the powers that be at the time were afraid to tell her during pre, production and post that something wasn't working. It sounds like they were being more picky this time around since WW2 failed on all expectations and they were trying to tell her what doesn't work this time around. I doubt she will ever helm another big franchise unless she comes down to earth a little.
Here is the difference and why a full reboot is the last thing I want as a dc fan....guardians hasn't been relaunched 4 to 5 times in the last 20 years....peter quill hasn't been played by every major film star in the last 50 years....the well is running dry....they have cavill, they have batfleck use them do a soft reboot tell new stories with actors who you know will pull it off....as a fan I already spent a damn decade supporting snyder now you want me to wait another ten years to see if Gunn can get the job done? Nah soft reboot or it will be a very hard sell and DC will fail again
It worked with Spider-Man which is a perfect example. They can definitely do and fans will forgive as long as the movie is good unlike WW84. I couldn’t even finish the movie.
I love DC but Marvel is inherently more relatable and interesting. I don’t think it’s possible for DC to have the same consistent mainstream success as Marvel. They will always have greater the biggest punch (Batman) but Marvel is more dynamic and diverse as a whole.
There’s now an opportunity to start fresh. Build a solid foundation. Build to something meaningful and expand from there. Just needs a really good foundation. Something the current DCEU has been missing all this time. Once they grasps that, everything should more or less falls into place.
@@maunglay8833 That's never going to happen. There will always be fans who expect the actor portraying Superman to be Christopher Reeve 2.0. People complained about the destruction in Man of Steel, so expect the next movie to be on par with Superman Returns. Yawn.
@@darkangel15221 I get it. Im just saying they’ve got a really good opportunity to start totally fresh this time, I’m excited to see if they take the opportunity and make something meaning out of that. Finger crossed.
Patty was given way too much free range with WW84. I have a feeling she was leaning into something of similar ambition with that 3rd treatment. The fact that she refused to change the story is a bit concerning. It's one thing to be connected to an idea, it's another to feel as if your way is the only way.
Seems plausible that there were some studio notes on the general continuation of the story development within the DCEU that clashed with Jenkins' idea of where WWs story was heading and they couldn't make it fit.
I think Gunn will reboot with a Titans movie, they have all core hero's from early enough to have cast for 10 yrs, rather like they did with Tom Holland spiderman. Introduce as ensemble, then do single character movies, then another team-up and so on.
Jenkins misinterpreted the success of the first Wonder Woman movie. The movie was good not great and it over performed at the box office because a lot of people, including the nonfans came out to see it because they wanted the first female superhero to succeed.
Naaw, the first movie wasn't amazing, but it was fun. Most people don't care about a movie unless it's entertaining to them. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean other people don't, quit being so narrow-minded
Patty Jenkins is a terrible writer. She probably wrote another terrible script for WW3 and WBD didn't like it as they didn't want another trash like WW84. Her ego came in the way and she left. Good riddance.
Good riddance Patty-the hack-Jenkins has been exposed by Gunn. You know him and Fiegie both talked about her and figured how did everyone overrate her abilities. I know I wasn't in that room when Gunn told her to do it over but I get the feeling they might had said something to let her know that she has little or no talent in this game that is why she didn't consider rewriting because she know she was not going to fool someone with real talent and she got as far as she can before someone found her out.
She probably wanted to bring Steve Trevor again in someone else's body 😂 In all seriousness, Patty Jenkins is a great director. She ain't a good writer though. Wonder Woman (2017) wasn't written by her. But Wonder Woman 1984 was. She probably could have stayed on if she retooled her pitch for the 3rd one or let someone else write and just direct.
Great director? Did you see the fight between WW and Cheetah? The whole movie was a disaster. You remember the scene where WW was running weakened after those trucks and saved that little girl? Did you see her feet? HAHAHA! Also how is that little girl still alive after take a roll like that?
I don't think James Gunn is going to be DC's saviour. Suicide Squad didn't hit all the marks. And that was Warner trying to chase Marvel formula. The most consistent performer critically and financially has been Batman's universe and The Joker. And they didn't try to emulate Marvel. They went for their style which was grounded realism in its storytelling. Personally I think that's the best way forward for DC.
To be fair, The Suicide Squad was released on HBO Max simultaneously so it had little chance to maximize box office $. I just hope Gunn is able to popularize B/C list DC characters like he did for Marvel. It would be nice to like other characters besides Batman & Superman.
so given a full reboot is in the cards, are we really going to have to search for a whole new justice league, or can they use the alternate earths as a way to keep some of the actors.
Wonder Woman 2 was utter crap the story didn't make sense and too many plot holes and illogical effects and the problem was the 1st movie was amazing and she botched the 2nd one so the confidence that was put into her was already lost so the 3rd movie already had a skeptical views
No to Jenkins, yes to Gadot. And even though fans rankle at period pieces, Wonder Women emerged in comic to fight the Nazis and a film begun in WWII could continue in present days fighting New Nazis!
What i dont understand is: everyone one is like: “just reboot it all! - but dont touch Matt reeves Batman or The Joker”. I know these movies are great, and in their own Universe, but rebooting it ALL and only going with ONE Batman - also applies to those albeit good movies, otherwise the audience Will still see this as a mess…
I wanted Henry back as Superman but you are right, they need to wipe the slate clean and start again without the baggage of past mistakes… the story and the characters must come first because they are errrrmazing! #henrycavillasnewjamesbond
Bye then. I love Cavil as Superman, but Cavil is not the reason I love Superman. I grew up loving the characters, and I will enjoy them regardless the actor. You were never a dc fan if you’re saying that, you’re either a Cavil or Snyder fan. And DC brand doesnt need you, it needs DC fans.
There won't be a complete reboot, dude. I'm not sure where you're getting that but there is literally nothing to confirm that. James Gunn directed Suicide Squad and Peacemaker. He ain't throwing it all out the window.
I don't have any doubts of Patty Jenkins as a director, but as a writer? Different conversation. Also, can we start calling this "reset" of the DC universe REBIRTH for crying out loud?
No hate on Patty but WW 2 was really bad, and the first one was ok but had major flaws. I think the best thing that came out of Wonder Woman was Gal and we can credit Zack Snyder for that, not Patty
I mean - if it truly rivaled the issues of 1984, then good. I grew up mostly with DC stuff, I like DC and if I really had to choose a camp - that'd be the one, I've wanted the DCEU to be good because it has potential, there's good casting, even great casting in it with a couple absolute fails including the one that's been imploding, I was happy the first Wonder Woman film was actually very good (some of the end keeps it from great), I was hyped they were going to Cheetah even if the casting at first mad me go 'huh'. But from changes to characters to writing - 1984 was an unmitigated disaster. Like, as bad or worse than BvS level disaster.
WW84 is faaaar worse than BvS. At least that movie had good action and cinematography. Sadly it also had MARTH, but it still beats having a wishing stone as the main plot device.
Not suprised... "We" the so-called fans in an adversarial attitude to Zack Snyder's vision not paralleling the MCU at the time gased her up once Zack got pushed out and gave the game total success of WW1 to Patty not realizing Zack was one of the major components of it's success but the "Fans" lead by plenty of RUclipsrs kept saying "Give Justice League / MOS2 to Patty." Do we remember? At that moment the world was at her feet as Zack became the sole scapegoat for films not performing to financial expectations and Patty's WW84 was Patty's true vision.... down to undermining the continuity with WW in BVS but she had free reigns of any story she wanted. She had I believe 2 projects with Star Wars, Cleopatra... and Fans so desperate to step on Zack to elevate Patty, Hollywood's darling at the time. WW84 Dropped and so did all her praise aiming for a Richard Donner approach (probably aiming to show what she could do with a possible MOS2) and just completely failed. All the other studio dropped her and you see there not going to be a Amazon film. She walked because she lost ALL power and prestige and... our HYPER CRITICAL fandom tore her to ahreda and (as she should) she walked.
@@kthalas I don't think op was worshipping him but simply pointing out that his influence on the 1st movie went unnoticed. In a way both patty n zack are similar since they both work better with a well written story given to them (WW, ZSJL) than having their own story (WW84, AOTD,Sucker Punch) Also at least Zack can offer great visuals and action. His storytelling can still use some help though. I personally loved ZSJL and its by far my fav DCU movie so far but the next movie he did was Arny of the Dead, which is one of the cringiest awful dumpster fire movies ever, in my opinion, his worst movie really. I think both directors are capable of great things and hopefully they learn more storytelling. I can't say much about patty, but with Zack, as someone who has really enjoyed a bunch of his films like MOS, ZSJL, 300 and Watchmen, I hope he does A great job with Rebel moon because honestly if this Passion project also ends up like Army, that would suck.
Agreed, I remember the thing about people wanting her to direct everything. Even as someone who for the most part liked WW thinking, her style may not work with everything. Now that she made WW84, they want nothing from her. It's an annoying thing about the Internet. When Zack did BVS, they wanted him away from DC, then he did ZSJL, now many want him back. No director is perfect, it goes 10 fold for blockbuster directors, but people do love doing a 180.
@@kthalas Quote where I "worshipped Zack?" When did stating the facts in chronological order equate to... "worship?" Are you one of those weird followers of "adults" so mad at a movie about fictional characters another adult was hired to make, that they make constant videos and videos solely about a film they disliked turned directoe (y'all don't even know him personally) because it wasn't like Richard Donner's 70's film that they can watch anytime they want ? What do they call that bunch? AntiSnyderStans ? Y'all are a cold bunch... the videos you guys did on him based on fictional characters while he mourned a real tragedy? Damn .... we tell children not to bully people but when it's a movie.... I guess anything goes. You must be down withe the Star Wars guys and hate Kathleen Kennedy like she snuffed your Grandma or something. Just discredit what I said and not what was triggered in you.
Why did they green light all of these terrible DC movies? Don’t they have test audiences? We’ve already proven that this is a successful formula. You have to Want to F it up to wreck it this bad. The Trailers for most of these were terrible… Black Adam and WW1984 had horrific trailers. What did they expect besides failure?
LMAO you think tjey have no test audience? The movies were bad because the upper management wanted to follow a different path. Also, that's why the Flash movie is going to push thru (Pre-Gunn) since the test audience loved it. Now we dont know, since the cameos are not happening.
If it has been 20 years or so, reboot makes sense. But Wonder Woman is only a few years old. Reboot again? They need a good writer and story teller. The 2nd Wonder Woman was bad. I felt asleep. No comparison to the first one which was great.
Gunn and Safrin are gonna let the current slate run its course i.e. DCEU characters/actors, Todd Phillips and Matt Reeves. In the meantime, they're gonna work on planning out the DCU over those years and get a concrete plan set in stone while simultaneously being hands-on with the current movies, hence there being two of them to split the duty of the future and the present
I always wonder that too why it's called Creative differences I feel like Director has disagreement with Studios about story that's why remember Dr Strange 2?
@@ashajacob8362 the first Ant Man too when it was Edgar Wright originally. I'm sure there's a lot of llegit examples of people leaving over disagreements but I feel like I hear it too much for it to be the base every time. Kinda like when officials have the chance to resign over getting fired. It just sounds better but we know what's up.
What Gunn and Safran should do is start from scratch a new DC Universe, mix it with The Suicide Squad movie from 2021 and Peacemaker, would be the best option for the DCU, get rid of the past burden and plant a new mind set for the casual fans and DC fans.
Let's analyze this shall we? The first movie was good, but let's be honest, it was very close to the source material The second movie she was given creative control, and she shit the bed. So do you really think they'll be happy with another bird brain script of hers? I don't think so. Kick rocks Patty
WW1 "very close to the source material",..please STOP! If people online actually read those old "golden age" comics and they'll quickly see,. that they are mind numbingly simplistic, silly, myopic and yes,.childish,-as they were at that time only illustrated fantasy magazines for young children. Its only in the more recent decades that comics "grew up" so to speak as adult readers took over the as the primary buyers & readers of comics and they became "Collectible" LoL But the source material is often god awful garbage,.even for the much more grounded in reality Marvel comics from the 60s , its too campy to take seriously and the reason it took decades for comic book moves to find their place in the film industry.
First of all, it's James Gunn. He doesn't have to start completely anew, but can circumcise what's already there and still be successful, as he did with The Suicide Squad. He clipped away what he wanted, and kept the rest and produced a good movie. He can keep Gal Gadot and Henry Cavill. There was nothing wrong with them. It was the writing for WW84 that was bad. And as much as Campea keeps praising Jenkins, she's done nothing impressive, and writing is definitely not her thing. She has absolutely NO CONCEPT of the mechanics of life around her, of cause and effect and relationships of one event to another; and she proves that in the things she does, especially throughout WW84. Clip away! There's nothing wrong with Michael Keaton's Batman or using him in Batman Beyond. Peacemaker was fantastic! You don't need burn down the whole house because of a weak wall or pest problem. You can fix what you have and triple its value.
She directed a great WW movie.... that she did not write.
She wrote and directed WW'84 and that film was awful.
I'm not surprised her writing the third film isn't working.
From what I am understanding from Gunn's tweet was he is going to create a new cohesive film universe with the same actors, acknowledge the past films but move forward with a different take on the characters. When he made Suicide Squad 2, he acknowledged Ayer's work but did a different spin.
If that's the case then he should clearly state it, instead of these cryptic tweets
@@HAIDAYY He can't say much as he and Peter Safran are first going to meet Zaslav to pitch their plan. Everyone will have to be patient.
@@GlareBoxTV he shouldn't have said anything until meeting Zaslav.
I'm glad they didn't give her the green light if her script made no sense.
Patty Jenkins is a terrible choice for these types of movies. She has directed one good movie, 20 years ago, and it was based on real events. She wasn’t just doing anything she wanted on the first WW, it was supervised, she had a lot of help, and that movie had great moments but was just decent overall. Truly great movies don’t have a garbage third act and meh acting. When she does anything she wants, you get WW 1984. And the way things went with Lucasfilm, I’m sure that’s because she had an amazing idea for that movie as well, right?
@@philwalsh8975 For real. It looked like it could’ve been a Disney Channel movie. And even many of those were better than that. 😂 It’s like people just didn’t even care.
I think she directed some episodes of Breaking Bad or some other well-regarded TV show.
@KayKo In a way you are 100% correct. I knew Rian Johnson worked on Breaking Bad but I thought Patty Jenkins did too. Your comment made me research and, while she did mainly work on TV before Wonder Woman, she actually didn't direct Breaking Bad episodes or any show that has been in my personal radar.
I may have also mixed her up with Alan Taylor, who had worked on Game of Thrones and directed Thor: The Dark World after Patty Jenkins walked away from that film.
👎🏽👎🏽👎🏽
I'm still gobsmacked, that Wonder Woman 84 actually had a major plot point about WW basically kidnapping and sleeping with an unconscious man, and it's portrayed as romantic. WTF?
Really??
So Patty Jenkins lost Cleopatra, Rogue Squadron, and now Wonder Woman 3. Ouch.
After one bad film, considering Spielberg made a film like 1941 after Close Encounters of the Third Kind, but he was still able to make movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., and so on.
@@MASSEFFECTfan101 I think it's more than that I mean wonder women 3 was probably due to 2 and that's 100 percent fair. The others are hard to know Disney has announced and canned a lot of star wars stuff so hard to say if it's a her thing and the other just maybe wasn't considered a good investment
1984 was such a dog's breakfast, it's a wonder Warner was willing to sit down at the table in the first place.
Being a good director does not make you a good writer.
After what she did with WW84, if they’re saying there’s continuity issues that Patty is ignoring from the previous films, then I’m inclined to believe them.
Nuff said
Anyone else exhausted with hearing all this?
Just start over from scratch.
Start with a long term plan, and go from there.
Been saying that since BVS came out
Wonder woman 1984 was horrible. So disappointing after the first one.
Good, she wasn’t the right director at all.
I hope Gunn reboots with the same actors....why does there need to be new actors?
From the credits it doesn’t look like Patty Jenkins had anything to do with writing the story or screenplay on the first Wonder Woman movie. Her only other major motion picture writing credit is of course the brilliant MONSTER from 2003. Perhaps writing for Wonder Woman is out of her wheelhouse. Writing sci-fi fantasy is a lot different than writing about true life.
I appreciate that Patty Jenkins can recognize a truly good script and can visually adapt it to screen like she did with the first Wonder Woman movie.
How does patty think ww1984 was good and she should do more of that
I dont blame them they where involved with first movie and that was fantastic they gave her full control for #2 and that was a mess. I dont blame them being involved in the 3rd.
I think Zaslav made himself very clear earlier this year when he said these upcoming DC movies were good but they could make them better. It actually would be pointless to reboot anything. There are far too many already established characters just to reboot and at that point it'll be pointless to go watch any of the movies the studio has coming out. I think the studio is doing what they can to avoid trying to add whatever else came from the old regime into their plans. The next four movies is enough work to try and connect it. It seems like they trying to get started on their plans as soon as 2024/2025 which is why they offered to let Jenksin rewrite it to fit their story. She just chose klnot to.i highly doubt anyone is being replaced or even recast. I I strongly believe we don't have anything to worry about.
I hate how some people think when a director makes one bad movie they should never direct a movie again.
@@doritochipo370 terrible take
Yeah, when Patty Jenkins made the first Wonder Woman movie everyone was praising her left and right, but then after she made WW84 everyone instantly switched to “Patty Jenkins is a talentless hack! She should never direct another movie again!” It just shows how the internet’s perception of someone can just change in a millisecond, like how everyone was raving about how great of an actress Brie Larson is after Room yet after she became Captain Marvel everyone started saying she’s one of the worst actresses of all time, so in this day in age especially you should really just ignore the internet’s opinion on something because they can just suddenly change out of nowhere
Her directing isn’t an issue, it’s her writing.
Am I an ass for thinking the whole story feels like when someone says “You can’t fire me! I quit!”
I don’t blame WB, she needs to go. The only reason WW1 was good because it was co-produced by Zack and Nolan. And was written other writers not Jenny.
Patty gets way too much credit. People treat her like she solo made that film
Alan Heinberg is generally credited as being the writer who helped make the first movie successful.
He then left before WW84.
John keeps saying Patty J is a "great" director... but is she? WW 1 was good, she did Monster a long time ago... and then...? WW 1984 was awful, and she's gotten taken off three major properties in the last few years, and hardly anybody can name any other movies she's done. I don't get the hype for her.
but its like another commenter said her directing skill is very good its her writing that sucks and she wrote WW1984 but not the first one
Amen
@@Igivegdparent maybe. i enjoyed ww 1 but the third act fight scene stuff wasn't, to me, an example of great directing. i'd guess action scenes are not her strength. my feeling of her is that she's closer to "competent professional" than "great," but maybe I don't know about directing to distinguish like that.
@@yegrosal ooooo wait you did mention something I agree with her directing for the 3rd act of WW wasn't that good I totally forgot about that part since it has been a long while
@@yegrosal Synder directed the final act in WW1
Seems like WB prevented another WW84... Good job WB! And while it isn't certain, I have a feeling the same thing happened at Lucasfilm with Rogue Squadron. The success of WW1 got to her head, and now believes that if she isn't given full carte blanche on a movie, she's too good for it. Movies like WW84 are why you don't allow certain directors to have full creative control on massive blockbusters.
I don't see any reason why they couldn't do a fresh reboot but keep Gale as Wonder Women and Cavill as Superman.
@@ahappyklingon3631 wouldn’t doubt it basically being a soft reboot, not completely but dc could just line all the movies tied to the Snyderverse as another earth and would make sense as the comics and animated movies have shown the evidence of a multiverse
I would be O.K. with a reboot of Wonder Woman if and only IF they keep Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. Otherwise, forget it.
She didn't write WW1 that was Synder's team and she was not the original director attached to the film
Who was.
Makes sense.
@@alexl.4362 They wanted Kathryn Bigelow, but she said "no". It's not official whether Patty was the next person on their list, but she was later announced as the director. The film never had a director until Patty.
Exactly, I give a lot of credit to Snyder and their team in first Ww, it was a group effort. Ww84 was all Jenkins, and was really bad.
If Gunn (who will be the public face of it) ends up losing Cavill, Gadot, and Robbie going forward, he will be hated and hounded online to a degree that would make Rian Johnson sit back and go, "Daaaaaaamn!"
If the only thing that sticks around for thr reboot/new direction is Gunn's own Peacemaker show, that would be an incredibly bad look for him.
That said, after WW 1984 I have little doubt that Jenkins' script for a third movie was bad.
I think they just need to choose a tone and stick to it, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, had a feel and a tone that was massively different from MCU and needed to be, and those movies had a huge fsnbase, but the studio wanted MCU money, but the MCU took its time to build to that, WB panicked and decided to completely change the tone, and its never settled on a tone since.
100% this. It couldve been built better but the tone and direction it was going was AWESOME! It felt way cooler. I dont want the same product with a different skin. I rewatch Zack Snyders dceu movies way more than marvel movies. BVS felt like i was watching a live action motion comic. It was so cool. MOS still gives me chills when that music drops and you see Superman just walking and his cape swaying in the wind. You can carve Zack Snyder movies into posters that look dope cuz the shots this guy takes are some of the best ive ever seen. Fine let Gunn be the overseer but leave Snyder there to build it. Make their partnership like a two tier Feige. I want that Snyder magic!
WB chose the Christopher Nolan 'dark night gritty' / serious tone after the success of the Dark Knight trilogy, probably thinking that (plus having Nolan and Goyer as writers) would work fo Man of Steel.
It didn't quite work out unfortunately.
Good riddance. WW84 is one of the worst comicbook movies ever imo.
It sounds like WB wanted to make a conscious effort to fix the problems that WW84 had but Patty Jenkins wanted to just press onward as is, it seems like she was trying to do what Zack Snyder did with his trilogy, which is go “This is my vision for the overall story of this trilogy so I’m gonna make it how I want” I didn’t think WW84 was a total bus fire like a lot of other people seem to think it is but I agree it wasn’t very good, and if Patty Jenkins wanted to just move forward with her original vision and not care to fix the problems that that movie had then it’s probably a good thing her and WB parted ways
I feel like people often overlook Zack Synder's and (especially) Allan Heinberg's contribution to the successful story writing process of Wonder Woman (2017). Synder's contribution helped keep Patty's vision in line with the DCEU's feel and cinematographic tone (Though Patty's directorial choices were slightly more tasteful than Snyder's usual sensibilities). Whereas as Allan Heinberg's screenplay for the movie (and active contribution to the script), helped with the characterization of Wonder Woman (she had a balance of a Disney Princess-like innocence, high intelligence, sense of justice, Warrior upbringing, and a goal driven attitude) and the people around her. This is why his notable absence from the sequel (and a lack proper screenplay writer to replace him) resulted in questionabe (dumb) plot lines and bizarre characterizations.
There's also comic book writer Geoff Johns (🙄), but he's (a bully & a snake) mostly there are the "lore/source material" guy (i.e., he's ensuring that his version of the comics are referenced so that he can get the royalties). So he's not much of contributing factor to the quality.
Overall, the way Patty J keeps losing work (rage quitting because of creative differences) makes me think that she's not a team player and doesn't like taking other people's advice. Allan Heinberg infamously left the team after Wonder Woman (2017) was completed, because he couldn't get along with Patty-who made it clear she wanted to control the script. Meanwhile Synder was no longer around due to family issues and WB pushing him out. With him no longer involved, Patty wasted no time demanding that her film semi-independent, resulting in the tonal shift. So 1984 is the result of giving a director (with a James Cameron level ego) too much power, without anyone to balance out their ideas and directorial choices. I'd really rather not see Gal Gadot go-I love her in the roll-but her loyalty Patty will ultimately be her undoing (also Gal needs a new agent, because the film work she gets otherwise hasn't been great).
This!! Exactly this!!
Yeah i feel Gal Gadot is gonna be forgotten soon if she doesnt get better roles which is a shame cuz i think shes a wonderful actress. Patty made 1984 like it was a cartoon from the same time. It was just so cheesy and boring. The cliches. The dumb lines. I dont like not finishing movies so i hated myself for finishing this one. I dont get the hype. I heard Monster was the shit and im a Charlize Theron fan so ill probably like it but besides that what else she got?
I think Gunn is going to do to the DC Universe what he did to the Suicide Squad: keep the continuity in place, but take it in a different direction. The 2021 film didn't negate the 2016 movie.
I feel Gunn is smart enough to not throw the baby out with the bath water.
Patty Jenkins had a tantrum. Call it what it is. After she butchered the sequel I would imagine her creative control would be pulled back a bit.
After WW2 got no problem with Patty walking. Loved first one but sequel was a dumpster fire!
In sports terms this is a full rebuild. Tearing it down to the studs. In my opinion this is what needs to be done
I don't want the entire DCEU to be the James Gunn tone.
I am worried it's gonna be a lot of GOTG style humor
Same. Can't stand his humor, and his GOTG movies are my least favorite of the Marvel universe. 😔
And according to Jenkins Rogue Squadron is still in production with Jenkins directing!
a bad movie is not a "bad day at the office"... at least 2 bad years at the office.
And noone told her or she didnt listen to how bad this was going to be.
If I wrote 1984, damn sure my next script is going to be more scrutinized. LOL. What does she expect?
I think they need to lean into how bonkers powerful Wonder Woman is supposed to be. From being part god, divine, able to see visions from the future, I mean she can do Kratos God of War level kinda stuff. But, in the last movie they had her chase a truck.... _a truck._ Plus they depowered a ton for whatever reason, remember Diana is supposed to be able to kill Superman & Batman and in turn they're supposed to be able to kill her as well if it came down to it. It's a balance between them all which makes them a trinity of different moral choices which at the end of the day is only set right because they all talk to each other and reach the best choice for any given situation.
But from the last Wonder Woman movie she seemed kinda like a c-lister who'd have trouble fighting Doctor Octupus.
I love WW as a character so I was kinda let down by the promise 1984 put forth. Instead of diving into the decade it just kinda used the year to seemingly just sell tickets.
The movie was inspired by 70s & 80s super hero style movies. Hence the title. Don’t know how people miss this or want to judge it compare to stuff they are use to now in days.
@@GuillermoManzano-vl4qp That wasn't the issue at least with me, I got the reason for the inspiration but as someone who's pretty familiar with 70s & 80s style movies especially in the vein of super heroes and the like it just missed the mark because the character wasn't in line with who Diana was as a person. Like why depower Wonder Woman? Would you want an entire movie with Batman, Superman, or even Spider-Man being totally mostly without their abilities or skill for more than half a movie? Diana is one of the few heroines that can actually throw down with badass mofo's, crack continents, move at inhuman speeds, and take a whipping like no one else.
But, they kinda took all the gusto out of her actions. Hell... I didn't even mind the body switch stuff and the magic rock actually did seem delightfully silly but totally inline with the era, not to mention some of her comic book plots. It was just hard to watch the character have trouble with normal nonspecialized enemies. I wanted to see the character that showed up for the fight with Doomsday, Ares, but to see her having trouble with just regular run of the mill fella's just didn't gel well.
It would be like Superman having trouble with bank robbers or Batman getting his butt kicked by a Supermarket employee.
I didn't hate the movie because I could get what they were going for and I'm glad they made an attempt but scaling back her abilities just didn't work for me. Part of her charm are her crazy visions, greek/roman/amazon morality, and her trying to fit into a world she's barely apart of but so desperately wants to understand.
To say that is not the Wonder Woman character is insane. Before this DC universe the only Wonder Woman content we had was the 70s show with Lynda Carter. Where she fought criminals. Not aliens or gods or whatever craziness you see now. Again, the movie was intended to be in that tone. You can’t fault a movie for what it attempted vs what you wanted. And as far as her losing her powers, that was part of the plot. And part of her whole arc in the movie.
@@GuillermoManzano-vl4qp I get what you're saying but even superman used to just be a character that couldn't fly but just lept everywhere, Batman used to be a tongue-in-cheek jokey sorta guy as well, and his show back in the 70s was kinda campy but fun. But time does change a lot of these legacy characters as they are updated. The ability to battle the big bads with your major top teir characters is extremely important. As a Superman fan, I roll my eyes every time we get yet another movie with him fighting Lex Luthor... what about Brainiac, Maxima, or Parasite? Imagine Batman instead of fighting the Joker is faced with Killer Croc, Lady Shiva, or hell even Clayface. The 1984 movie has such a promising premise but they even changed up Max Lords' power which originally was to control people. (Which was a huge missed opportunity)
Now imagine Wonder Woman a warrior that's killed people in war having to hold back on fighting her well trained friends, lover, or best gal pal? Then you'd have a reason to have her withhold her power and learn how to take people out without killing them. Maybe one scenario is that she hurt one of her mind-controlled friends by accident because he was wearing a mask and she went full amazon warrior on him/her. How guilty she would feel....
That would make a great arc and allow for character growth and would fit in with the decade of decadence.
The plot was just a huge loss of potentiality because it didn't really draw from her lore and everything you explained in your response still could have been achieved. The plot just didn't bring the character of Diana up to Superman or Batman levels. And by their levels I mean drawing upon what makes those characters popular. A large part of who she is is all about duality. Where Supes & Bats are all about black and white Wonder Woman can and often does exist within gray zone that leans heavily towards justice.
Because at the end of the day, she can be a campy, poetic, murderous, naive, thoughtful, etc.. etc... whatever fits the story but making her boring like they did in this movie was a task I didn't thin they could pull off, but they did.
But they opted to go with what we got and that kinda missed the mark.
The DCEU for the most part has been a disaster. Wipe the whole thing clean minus "The Batman" and start from there. DC has Superman & Batman, arguably the 2 most iconic characters in comic book history and they managed to screw that up!
Once a super in demand director to now nobody wanting her ….well 1984 was sure a long year for patty Jenkins
She’s obsessed with Chris Pine. Dude died and she keeps bringing him back.
Other than the Dark Knight Trilogy, all of DC films have underperformed, starting with Superman Returns. The hightlights were Aquaman, Wonderwoman and Shazam. Then WW84 happened.
Aquaman and WW were both hits. Neither one underperformed.
What are you talking about? Aquaman made 1B
@@GiraffeGuy631 Yes, those three films were the highlights, made money, but didn't make up for the slew of losers.
@@EricMrRareAir Problebly would have been leagues better with a shorter run time and no janky flooded Gothem ending.
Good, 1984 sucked and that was all Patty.
I'm seeing more excuses here. Like, why are we assuming another regime did this? It didn't, it was gunn. Gunn wants a cohesive story line and patty didn't want him telling them no. It's that simple. Why start a new process by having someone come in and do their own thing right off the bat?!? And let's face it, patty has something going on cause she's losing alot of work and when she finally gets control over Wonder Woman, she failed. She didn't write or influence the first one. Patty might not be what we think she is. She had a chance to start with them and didn't want to.
mikebsexy These DC directors still think that they are to make stand alone movies they forget that now they have immediate bosses she would have consulted James and Peter first
You can't fire me I quit
I enjoyed the hell out of the first Wonder Woman, and I hate to say it, but the success of WW went to her head and the powers that be at the time were afraid to tell her during pre, production and post that something wasn't working. It sounds like they were being more picky this time around since WW2 failed on all expectations and they were trying to tell her what doesn't work this time around. I doubt she will ever helm another big franchise unless she comes down to earth a little.
Here is the difference and why a full reboot is the last thing I want as a dc fan....guardians hasn't been relaunched 4 to 5 times in the last 20 years....peter quill hasn't been played by every major film star in the last 50 years....the well is running dry....they have cavill, they have batfleck use them do a soft reboot tell new stories with actors who you know will pull it off....as a fan I already spent a damn decade supporting snyder now you want me to wait another ten years to see if Gunn can get the job done? Nah soft reboot or it will be a very hard sell and DC will fail again
Lmao. That hasn't happened bc guardians was well recieved. They didn't need to relaunch. Dc should have relaunched after bvs
It worked with Spider-Man which is a perfect example. They can definitely do and fans will forgive as long as the movie is good unlike WW84. I couldn’t even finish the movie.
I love DC but Marvel is inherently more relatable and interesting. I don’t think it’s possible for DC to have the same consistent mainstream success as Marvel. They will always have greater the biggest punch (Batman) but Marvel is more dynamic and diverse as a whole.
There’s now an opportunity to start fresh. Build a solid foundation. Build to something meaningful and expand from there. Just needs a really good foundation. Something the current DCEU has been missing all this time. Once they grasps that, everything should more or less falls into place.
@@maunglay8833 That's never going to happen. There will always be fans who expect the actor portraying Superman to be Christopher Reeve 2.0. People complained about the destruction in Man of Steel, so expect the next movie to be on par with Superman Returns. Yawn.
@@darkangel15221 I get it. Im just saying they’ve got a really good opportunity to start totally fresh this time, I’m excited to see if they take the opportunity and make something meaning out of that. Finger crossed.
Patty was given way too much free range with WW84. I have a feeling she was leaning into something of similar ambition with that 3rd treatment. The fact that she refused to change the story is a bit concerning. It's one thing to be connected to an idea, it's another to feel as if your way is the only way.
Seems plausible that there were some studio notes on the general continuation of the story development within the DCEU that clashed with Jenkins' idea of where WWs story was heading and they couldn't make it fit.
I think Gunn will reboot with a Titans movie, they have all core hero's from early enough to have cast for 10 yrs, rather like they did with Tom Holland spiderman. Introduce as ensemble, then do single character movies, then another team-up and so on.
Jenkins misinterpreted the success of the first Wonder Woman movie. The movie was good not great and it over performed at the box office because a lot of people, including the nonfans came out to see it because they wanted the first female superhero to succeed.
Lmao well actually
Supergirl
Elektra
Cat girl
All came out earlier so.....
FIRST=NOT REALLY
You mean like most of marvel movies..
@@ChrisControversial I feel like this is an incomplete comment
Most marvel films......what?
Naaw, the first movie wasn't amazing, but it was fun. Most people don't care about a movie unless it's entertaining to them. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean other people don't, quit being so narrow-minded
Am I the only one who believes the 1st Wonder Woman was good because it is a near carbon copy of Captain America 1st Avenger?
It also wasn't written by Jenkins.
No it was very good because it was coproduced by Zack and Nolan. And written by other writers instead of patty jenkins.
@@jobsmine Yep, notably Alan Heinberg.
Patty Jenkins is a terrible writer. She probably wrote another terrible script for WW3 and WBD didn't like it as they didn't want another trash like WW84. Her ego came in the way and she left. Good riddance.
Good riddance Patty-the hack-Jenkins has been exposed by Gunn. You know him and Fiegie both talked about her and figured how did everyone overrate her abilities. I know I wasn't in that room when Gunn told her to do it over but I get the feeling they might had said something to let her know that she has little or no talent in this game that is why she didn't consider rewriting because she know she was not going to fool someone with real talent and she got as far as she can before someone found her out.
The only reason why Wonder Woman was good was because of Snyder being involved. Things she has done on her own have been very bad lately.
I think what they're looking at is a flashpoint reboot. Keeping many of the same actors.
She probably wanted to bring Steve Trevor again in someone else's body 😂 In all seriousness, Patty Jenkins is a great director. She ain't a good writer though. Wonder Woman (2017) wasn't written by her. But Wonder Woman 1984 was. She probably could have stayed on if she retooled her pitch for the 3rd one or let someone else write and just direct.
Great director? Did you see the fight between WW and Cheetah? The whole movie was a disaster. You remember the scene where WW was running weakened after those trucks and saved that little girl? Did you see her feet? HAHAHA! Also how is that little girl still alive after take a roll like that?
@@00J-Tone The girl saving moment could have been better handled. But the rest are literally VFX issues, not directing.
I don't think James Gunn is going to be DC's saviour. Suicide Squad didn't hit all the marks. And that was Warner trying to chase Marvel formula.
The most consistent performer critically and financially has been Batman's universe and The Joker. And they didn't try to emulate Marvel. They went for their style which was grounded realism in its storytelling. Personally I think that's the best way forward for DC.
To be fair, The Suicide Squad was released on HBO Max simultaneously so it had little chance to maximize box office $. I just hope Gunn is able to popularize B/C list DC characters like he did for Marvel. It would be nice to like other characters besides Batman & Superman.
so given a full reboot is in the cards, are we really going to have to search for a whole new justice league, or can they use the alternate earths as a way to keep some of the actors.
I'm wondering why the director is writing the movie anyway?
Patty Jenkins WW84 movie was disappointing. I'm surprised she was given another opportunity to try for WW 3.
Wonder Woman 2 was utter crap the story didn't make sense and too many plot holes and illogical effects and the problem was the 1st movie was amazing and she botched the 2nd one so the confidence that was put into her was already lost so the 3rd movie already had a skeptical views
No to Jenkins, yes to Gadot.
And even though fans rankle at period pieces, Wonder Women emerged in comic to fight the Nazis and a film begun in WWII could continue in present days fighting New Nazis!
And by “new Nazi’s” do you happen to mean any person who dares to even ever so slightly disagree with you politically?
After the 2nd movie they should of gotten rid of the writer.
Patty Jenkins was the co-writer lol!
What i dont understand is: everyone one is like: “just reboot it all! - but dont touch Matt reeves Batman or The Joker”. I know these movies are great, and in their own Universe, but rebooting it ALL and only going with ONE Batman - also applies to those albeit good movies, otherwise the audience Will still see this as a mess…
I wanted Henry back as Superman but you are right, they need to wipe the slate clean and start again without the baggage of past mistakes… the story and the characters must come first because they are errrrmazing! #henrycavillasnewjamesbond
They have to reboot they only have like 2 JL actors and they lack the history for people to care about the characters.
If there's no Cavil as superman I'm not interested in anything DC
Bye then. I love Cavil as Superman, but Cavil is not the reason I love Superman. I grew up loving the characters, and I will enjoy them regardless the actor. You were never a dc fan if you’re saying that, you’re either a Cavil or Snyder fan. And DC brand doesnt need you, it needs DC fans.
Literally told us not to think about it then asked us our opinion.
It be cool if Steven Spielberg helped the next Wonder Woman film with Gal Gadot, if not him maybe, either Andy Muschietti or James Gunn himself.
They had enough of her 🤣🤣🤣
There won't be a complete reboot, dude. I'm not sure where you're getting that but there is literally nothing to confirm that. James Gunn directed Suicide Squad and Peacemaker. He ain't throwing it all out the window.
I don't have any doubts of Patty Jenkins as a director, but as a writer? Different conversation. Also, can we start calling this "reset" of the DC universe REBIRTH for crying out loud?
If they reboot DC I hope they don't do origin stories again... BTW I wonder what kind of contracts these actors have? Especially Gal and Jason...
I think The Batman should be their new starting point and go from there
Doubt they'll go that route
No thanks.
If DC universe started from scratch with new actors, I don’t see a big loss to never see those actors again
No hate on Patty but WW 2 was really bad, and the first one was ok but had major flaws. I think the best thing that came out of Wonder Woman was Gal and we can credit Zack Snyder for that, not Patty
Jenkins claims the only reason she left star wars was to do WWIII Lucasfilm said when your done come back and direct Rogue Squadron!
Sometimes the writer shouldn't be the director and vice versa
She does not seem to play well with studios. Thor 2, Rogue Squadron and now this.
Thank Goodness she left, that woman doesn't understand storytelling at all.
DC has the big 3. Superman batman and wonder woman. And tons of great secondary characters. Just write some good movies.
Very True!! Warner Bros needed to do better in the past.
I mean - if it truly rivaled the issues of 1984, then good. I grew up mostly with DC stuff, I like DC and if I really had to choose a camp - that'd be the one, I've wanted the DCEU to be good because it has potential, there's good casting, even great casting in it with a couple absolute fails including the one that's been imploding, I was happy the first Wonder Woman film was actually very good (some of the end keeps it from great), I was hyped they were going to Cheetah even if the casting at first mad me go 'huh'. But from changes to characters to writing - 1984 was an unmitigated disaster. Like, as bad or worse than BvS level disaster.
WW84 is faaaar worse than BvS. At least that movie had good action and cinematography. Sadly it also had MARTH, but it still beats having a wishing stone as the main plot device.
11:59 sure miss the balanced insight Schnepp brought when I hear comments like this
Not suprised... "We" the so-called fans in an adversarial attitude to Zack Snyder's vision not paralleling the MCU at the time gased her up once Zack got pushed out and gave the game total success of WW1 to Patty not realizing Zack was one of the major components of it's success but the "Fans" lead by plenty of RUclipsrs kept saying "Give Justice League / MOS2 to Patty." Do we remember?
At that moment the world was at her feet as Zack became the sole scapegoat for films not performing to financial expectations and Patty's WW84 was Patty's true vision.... down to undermining the continuity with WW in BVS but she had free reigns of any story she wanted. She had I believe 2 projects with Star Wars, Cleopatra... and Fans so desperate to step on Zack to elevate Patty, Hollywood's darling at the time.
WW84 Dropped and so did all her praise aiming for a Richard Donner approach (probably aiming to show what she could do with a possible MOS2) and just completely failed. All the other studio dropped her and you see there not going to be a Amazon film.
She walked because she lost ALL power and prestige and... our HYPER CRITICAL fandom tore her to ahreda and (as she should) she walked.
Snyder is a crippled artist too. please stop worshiping him.
@@kthalas I don't think op was worshipping him but simply pointing out that his influence on the 1st movie went unnoticed. In a way both patty n zack are similar since they both work better with a well written story given to them (WW, ZSJL) than having their own story (WW84, AOTD,Sucker Punch) Also at least Zack can offer great visuals and action. His storytelling can still use some help though. I personally loved ZSJL and its by far my fav DCU movie so far but the next movie he did was Arny of the Dead, which is one of the cringiest awful dumpster fire movies ever, in my opinion, his worst movie really. I think both directors are capable of great things and hopefully they learn more storytelling. I can't say much about patty, but with Zack, as someone who has really enjoyed a bunch of his films like MOS, ZSJL, 300 and Watchmen, I hope he does A great job with Rebel moon because honestly if this Passion project also ends up like Army, that would suck.
Agreed, I remember the thing about people wanting her to direct everything. Even as someone who for the most part liked WW thinking, her style may not work with everything. Now that she made WW84, they want nothing from her. It's an annoying thing about the Internet. When Zack did BVS, they wanted him away from DC, then he did ZSJL, now many want him back. No director is perfect, it goes 10 fold for blockbuster directors, but people do love doing a 180.
@@kthalas Quote where I "worshipped Zack?" When did stating the facts in chronological order equate to... "worship?"
Are you one of those weird followers of "adults" so mad at a movie about fictional characters another adult was hired to make, that they make constant videos and videos solely about a film they disliked turned directoe (y'all don't even know him personally) because it wasn't like Richard Donner's 70's film that they can watch anytime they want ?
What do they call that bunch? AntiSnyderStans ?
Y'all are a cold bunch... the videos you guys did on him based on fictional characters while he mourned a real tragedy?
Damn .... we tell children not to bully people but when it's a movie....
I guess anything goes.
You must be down withe the Star Wars guys and hate Kathleen Kennedy like she snuffed your Grandma or something.
Just discredit what I said and not what was triggered in you.
@@theflickspicksnthenitpicks3731 lmao sure dude. I don't do any videos BTW, you really stretched out your rambling in that direction...god knows why.
so what’s the point in replacing henry but keeping zachery levi and john cena ..
How did no exec see the mess that WW84 was - inexcusable!
Why did they green light all of these terrible DC movies? Don’t they have test audiences? We’ve already proven that this is a successful formula. You have to Want to F it up to wreck it this bad. The Trailers for most of these were terrible… Black Adam and WW1984 had horrific trailers. What did they expect besides failure?
LMAO you think tjey have no test audience? The movies were bad because the upper management wanted to follow a different path.
Also, that's why the Flash movie is going to push thru (Pre-Gunn) since the test audience loved it. Now we dont know, since the cameos are not happening.
Usually the test audience comes after the green light.
Test audiences shouldn't even be relied upon in the first place. You only need to watch the ending of *Enemy Mine* to understand why.
If it has been 20 years or so, reboot makes sense. But Wonder Woman is only a few years old. Reboot again? They need a good writer and story teller. The 2nd Wonder Woman was bad. I felt asleep. No comparison to the first one which was great.
The first WW was better and we all know why 👀👀👀👀
Gunn and Safrin are gonna let the current slate run its course i.e. DCEU characters/actors, Todd Phillips and Matt Reeves. In the meantime, they're gonna work on planning out the DCU over those years and get a concrete plan set in stone while simultaneously being hands-on with the current movies, hence there being two of them to split the duty of the future and the present
The writing to me is the main problem. The villains are another problem. That's just what I think
Isn't "leaving over creative differences" just a fancy way of holloywppd firing these days?
I always wonder that too why it's called Creative differences I feel like Director has disagreement with Studios about story that's why remember Dr Strange 2?
@@ashajacob8362 the first Ant Man too when it was Edgar Wright originally. I'm sure there's a lot of llegit examples of people leaving over disagreements but I feel like I hear it too much for it to be the base every time. Kinda like when officials have the chance to resign over getting fired. It just sounds better but we know what's up.
What Gunn and Safran should do is start from scratch a new DC Universe, mix it with The Suicide Squad movie from 2021 and Peacemaker, would be the best option for the DCU, get rid of the past burden and plant a new mind set for the casual fans and DC fans.
Let's analyze this shall we?
The first movie was good, but let's be honest, it was very close to the source material
The second movie she was given creative control, and she shit the bed. So do you really think they'll be happy with another bird brain script of hers? I don't think so. Kick rocks Patty
WW1 "very close to the source material",..please STOP!
If people online actually read those old "golden age" comics and they'll quickly see,. that they are mind numbingly simplistic, silly, myopic and yes,.childish,-as they were at that time only illustrated fantasy magazines for young children.
Its only in the more recent decades that comics "grew up" so to speak as adult readers took over the as the primary buyers & readers of comics and they became "Collectible" LoL
But the source material is often god awful garbage,.even for the much more grounded in reality Marvel comics from the 60s , its too campy to take seriously and the reason it took decades for comic book moves to find their place in the film industry.
She probably wanted to bring back Chris Pine again. Lol. I like Gal Godot, I hope she stays.
This made me spit out my coffee ahaha good one 😂
@@angelods417 supposedly true
Aw Patty got her feelings hurt! Smh
IS it ok if I don't care?
First of all, it's James Gunn. He doesn't have to start completely anew, but can circumcise what's already there and still be successful, as he did with The Suicide Squad. He clipped away what he wanted, and kept the rest and produced a good movie. He can keep Gal Gadot and Henry Cavill. There was nothing wrong with them. It was the writing for WW84 that was bad. And as much as Campea keeps praising Jenkins, she's done nothing impressive, and writing is definitely not her thing. She has absolutely NO CONCEPT of the mechanics of life around her, of cause and effect and relationships of one event to another; and she proves that in the things she does, especially throughout WW84. Clip away! There's nothing wrong with Michael Keaton's Batman or using him in Batman Beyond. Peacemaker was fantastic! You don't need burn down the whole house because of a weak wall or pest problem. You can fix what you have and triple its value.