At this point just recast them all, I can't keep waiting on a single actor or actress or director to make their vision of these characters. It's not rocket science just DO SOMETHING with Superman or Wonder Woman, if you gotta recast then do it. I'm tired of waiting around guessing which character is in the DCU and which isn't.
At this point scorch the earth with the DCEU and reboot it's the best option this whole thing aside from one or two films has been a cluster I say reboot everything and do it right
@@alih122 how is it “brainwashed.” It’s common sense. Everything in the DCEU right now is messy and divisive as hell and the smartest thing to do would be a clean slate.
@@alih122 y’all need to let the DCEU go already, if it was great we wouldn’t be in this situation right now. CLEARLY what they’ve been doing is not working, and it’s left a convoluted mess of a universe. A hard reboot is the smartest way to go if you want DC to ever catch their footing.
Their half-hearted approach so far where they kind of reboot but kind of don't hasn't worked great and seems to have mostly just left casual audiences confused. I'd agree wiping the.slate clean is best, a few years ago I wouldn't have said so but they previous management has fucked things up and gotten everything so twisted and messy now that this is probably best
IF they start with a Justice League International style movie, please just have them be an already established team of friends that has existed for years. No team building film, no origin story, just drop us into it.
So allegedly, Henry leaves The Witcher for whatever they promised him at DC Films, and now, they allegedly decide to reboot it all and not use him. Sounds like Henry's getting screwed.
John, I appreciate that you are often careful about not making conclusions by reading between the lines or taking the headlines at face value, but I think you may have jumped the Gunn a bit on this one. The article did not say WW3 will not still happen. It said that, in it's current incarnation, it is not moving forward. That Jenkins's submitted treatment doesn't fit the vision. But also that the steps forward have not been determined. There is much that is unknown, and WW3 could still happen at some point.
I haven’t felt this excited about the DCU since the announcement of BvS. A clean slate is exactly what DC needs and I hope everything (outside of The Batman) gets rebooted.
I agree with Rob's standpoint. Have the DC universe just start as a fully formed universe, where most of the heroes and villains already exist, there's a history and pre-established dynamics and relationships, there's multiple superhero teams, sidekicks, maybe even legacy characters like the JSA, all of that. Films like Del Toro's Hellboy films or The Incredibles, or more importantly big franchises like Star Wars, Harry Potter and John Wick are great examples of how right off the bat they set up a world with a clear tone and style whilst being full of depth, to where pretty much anything could show up and it felt natural, and they felt like worlds where you could easily revisit and tell another story. To me a defining feature of the DC universe compared to Marvel was that Marvel feels like our world but superheroes suddenly start appearing, phase 1 of the MCU I feel really reflects that idea, whereas for me DC has always been more stylized and otherworldly, from the fictional cities to the ways history sometimes varies to our own, it always had that inherent difference that allowed any character to just show up and they felt like they'd always been there, without needing some previously established backstory or justification for how they could exist. Whereas in Marvel superpowered characters feel sometimes like a recent phenomenon, in DC they feel engrained into that universe's culture a lot of the time. A lot of the previous DC films I feel haven't quite pulled off that idea, mainly due to having so many varied filmmakers and the clear lack of any central plan, but James Gunn I'd say already did that in The Suicide Squad, so he knows how to pull that off. Plus looking at the non-film adaptation from DC that have been popular, such as the Arkham games or more noteworthy the DCAU, both of those (whilst different mediums from film) created universes that felt alive because they weren't all just starting out. Something like Justice League Unlimited opens by just showing at least 30 different superheroes all gathered in one room, they all already had their origins offscreen, so once one of those characters got a story focused on them it was very distinct since they weren't all origins.
If they really have a long term roadmap/plan and they can stick to it then this is the right decision. Better to start with a clean slate than constantly trying to contrive things and fix problems from previous movies.
THE ONLY THING CONFIRMED IS THEY DID NOT LIKE PATTY JENKINS WONDER WOMAN SCRIPT. and if it is anything like her last script, I do not blame them. Patty is definitely done but everything else is still up in the air, including Gal. but everyone has decided to pull rampant speculation out of their ass.
FULL REBOOT! I'm all for it, it's too much of a mess right now. And I say film Batman, Superman and Wonder woman movies at the same time and drop all 3 in the same year a few months apart....that would be an epic start
After wb shared Henry cavills video of him coming back as Superman and put him at the end of black Adam if they actually get rid of him now I am finally finished with this constant bs from WB. It would have been different had they just not said or done anything but they did and now a lot of fans are expecting this and to pull the carpet out from under us is very bad business. They also just screwed these final films out of having any great success because who gives a shit if they’re going to just reboot anyways. I think this is a very bad business decision.
I posted somewhere else, it’s interesting that no where in that Cavill post did he thank the Rock or his team for bringing him back . Meanwhile Rock mentioned many times how hard they worked to get him back. Knowing Zazzy wants Superman, he might be the one that actually survives. 🤔
I love your perception that a good movie is about writing and world building and not about actors. There has been so much drama around the current cast. The Ezra Miller and Amber Heard scandals and WW84 being a complete trainwreck. Maybe it's time for new faces.
Flawed thinking in a sense. Yes writing and world building and not about actors so then EXACTLY how is rebooting gonna work when the actors are the only thing thats gonna change with DCU? Fuck Gunn i dont have faith in the whole WB mismanagement since back as far as Superman Returns
I don't believe Henry Cavill is gone. He's in, but the rest are needed for continuity. A reboot will be a hard sell. If the new actors aren't accepted, guess what, it was a big waste of time and money and back to square one again!
I'll wait until James Gunn and Peter Saffron actually announce what their plans are. I don't like to assume things. Personally as long as Shazam with Zachary Levi stays in the DCU for a while longer I'll be happy. Though I do like Henry's Superman and Jason's Aquaman.
I'm all up for a reboot. The unfortunate truth is though - the moment you recast the whole Internet will go nuts screaming that the old cast was better. Because the old cast is not really old at all and the previous regime's era is far too recent. If anything, they should leave this whole thing for 5-6 years and then reboot. But no one is going to do that.
I feel bad for Henry Cavill though. I never really cared for his Superman but I like him and he seemed so excited to be back just to be screwed over *again* I‘d love to see him as Marvels Captain Britain
@@jonfreeman9682 While he is good, there could be an actor out there that could play Superman just as well. People didn’t know how good Cavill was until he was given the chance so let’s see how good a new guy could be if they rebooted.
I always thought Flash was going to reboot the DCEU even before James Gunn Joined. Flash said “when I mess with time, time messes back”. Flash is based on Flash point.
I gave up on the DCEU after the cinematic abortion that was Batman vs Superman. The only way I will get back onboard is if the *WHOLE* thing is *COMPLETELY* rebooted from scratch.
You can’t cast Mamoa as Lobo. You have to wipe slate clear. It sucks, but you should not use main actors that played prominent characters in previous dceu.
Chris Evans did it in the MCU. It is always a possibility. DCEU could use David Harbour from Stranger Things. He has Violent Night Santa movie out right now.
I played the Avengers movie (the 1st) for a girl who knew absolutely nothing about prev Marvel movies or comics. When it ended she said "that was sooo good!". They can definitely pull off a Justice League International movie without prior solo movies. I, like Rob, LOVED the Geffen, Dematis, Maguire run in the 80s.
13:41 Rob not holding back in the slightest when it came to Wonder Woman 84 lol. I definitely thought it was a step down when I saw it but in no way did I ever think it would spell the end of that franchise lol
It's funny because a couple of days ago a friend and I were talking about what if Warner bros were to announce that they'd scrap Wonder Woman and just start from scratch with a new actress, new director, and new story. I said I wouldn't care. The 1st movie came out way back in 2017. The hype revolving around that film is gone. WW84 was awful and no one cares about it anymore. If they announce that they're gonna do a full reboot on WW and other DC characters, I'm all in. It's needed.
For the longest time I've looked at the DCEU as similar to the Marvel movies before Marvel Studios launched with Iron Man. Some good stuff, a lot of bad. Mistakes had to be made to get to a strong, cohesive DC Universe. I still hope Gadot and Cavill stick around though.
I agree with everything that was said....however. I don't agree with Rob saying that DC should be a lighter tone now. I don't want a hokey pokey DC. I like DC being dark
I understand why everyone is kinda upset about this, but I feel that a reboot is necessary. The D.C.E.U is the perfect example of trying too hard to be different and as a result, failing as a whole. It never made sense to me, that they would release a Justice League movie, but only 2 members of the team got solo films before the team up, that’s not how you build a universe properly. What I admired about the early MCU was that the build up was organic, meaning a bunch of solo films, then the team up, then sequels, while new solo films come out, so if it worked for Marvel, what makes you think it couldn’t work for DC. And the fact that Birds of Prey, the Suicide Squad, and Black Adam got movies before Flash, Martian Manhunter, and Ben Affleck’s Batman, literal Justice League members, shows me that they don’t care about making a respectable universe. Every member of the league should’ve had a solo film before the team up, because not doing that will take away the character’s ability to stand on their own before they meet each other. For years, WB has been trying to keep up with the MCU, and they don’t even deny it at this point. The DCEU could’ve easily been a cohesive coherent universe if they did it the right way. Henry Cavill should’ve BEEN had a trilogy by now, and Ben Affleck should’ve gotten a solo movie before Robert Pattinson, but guess what? They made Batman vs Superman, which was originally supposed to be Man of Steel 2, but the execs at WB wanted to shove Batman up our asses as usual, and for some reason they killed off Superman, literally in Henry’s SECOND appearance as the character, and now Man of Steel 2 isn’t even happening anymore, so Henry came back for basically nothing. If you’re gonna make a movie of this magnitude this early, the least you could do is make it better than what it was. The fact that it didn’t even make 900 million at the box office is disturbing to me. A movie that had Superman, Batman, AND Wonder Woman together for the first time ever in film, should’ve made 1 billion dollars EASILY. Marvel literally made a civil war movie, filled with heroes that were c-list damn near d-list characters before 2008, and that movie made a billion easily, you wanna know why? Because they built up a universe the way it’s supposed to be made. Think about it, we’ve seen marvel build up 10 years to see Thanos, but could you imagine if DC did it right, and built up 10 years to see Darkseid??????? I would’ve been cumming in my pants. But aye, that’s Hollywood🤷🏽♂️ they need to wipe the slate completely clean and do it right this time, but I honestly don’t feel that they will at this point.
@@rodrigowolupeck1788 exactly bro. A Justice League movie is a easy 1.5 billion dollar movie, and it makes me sad that it didn’t even make 700 million. How is that possible, when the Avengers made a billion easily? A team of c-list heroes?
I still feel like Gunn is going to do exactly what he did with The Suicide Squad. He’s gonna use what he wants from the prior iteration, and leave behind what he doesn’t want, without contradicting it. You just can’t throw away Gadot or Momoa. That’s crazy and the stupidest thing I can imagine them doing. That will set DC even further behind. A reboot will make people see them as even more of a joke. They need to quit stopping and starting at the first sign of trouble. It’s pathetic..
@@infeliz2405 I don’t understand what is so irreparable that warrants a total reboot. Everyone likes the majority of the casting choices. All of the characters are established, their origins have been covered, the JL is established. We don’t need to see this stuff done over again. We can just move forward.
I believe that there’s going to be certain actors or characters that are going to transition into the next evolution of the DCU. I could honestly see James gun turning Blue Beetle into DC’s version of Spider-Man with a little bit of campy Eddie/Venom relationship.
I have to agree, if they are going todo this then REBOOT it all and I mean everything and not keeping the same actors. I love what we got in the past and with those actors but since this is happening. Go all in and start over
I have no clue what to think about this news. Feels like DC film is in such disarray if everything is true. Beyond chaotic. A reboot only works if you have good story and writing while also fixing the other problems that plagued the previous movies. It’s sad because the stories and characters in the comics are so good but thanks to the bad handling of the cinematic universe they’ve been darkened.
While doing a clean slate MIGHT be a good idea in the long run, it's likely that this will hurt them in the next couple years because announcing this now essentially makes it so that there's no point in seeing any of 3 the films that are already shot and waiting to be released. Could be a major hit at the box office.
Tbf the report didn't say that WW3 was fully scrapped. Just that Gunn and Safran rejected her take and treatment on it. John's right though there is a lot of baggage with DC right now. I didn't see Black Adam because I was like 'ugh more generic sub-par DC bullshit'
Trying to find a positive, allegedly, Saffron held meetings with creative, so the DCU might not feel like an extention of James Gunn's previous DC work. As much as I enjoyed the Snyder stuff, I understand what didn't work. There were some terrible choices, for every good one. But those movies will always be there. I'm fine witha reboot, as long as we get honest depictions, not deconstructions, of The Trinity, Flash, Green Lantern, let them lead a solid depiction of the DCU, and let none of it feel like Snyder's dark deconstructions or James Gunn's "humorous" takes.
If this is what DC plans on doing, I’d be really saddened. I love DC and Marvel, but DC has a special place in my heart. All the actors in the DCEU I feel have done a fantastic job with what they were given and I don’t want to part with them. Especially superman. Even if they start from scratch respectfully, I can’t and won’t support it.
What if they retooled Blue Beetle to have that be the first movie in a new universe, where the end of the movie opens the door for the audience, through the eyes of the new kid on the block Jaime Reyes. Have it take place in a larger universe, but we only see this afterwards through this new character
Is not going to be easy to restart everything & recasting all the characters. Is gonna be time consuming and if they ever set on the wrong foot again, there's no turning back. Among all the shocking announcements, I feel sorry to Henry Cavill that the studio has betray him again with all those cameos that he was so excited to make official statements about him returning as Supe & even sacrificing his main role from the Witcher. That sounds so awful & embarrassing to his career. Wonder if WB would actually pay him some compensation coz they literally have tricked him into believing that he be wearing that cape again.
I saw people mad about this on Twitter, and I just laughed cuz this is the most DC Comics shit ever. Rebooting is as big a part of the DC brand as Superman and Batman
I've felt the DCEU has needed to end for a long time I will miss Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn but the DCEU is a mess and it needs to end.
I agree to the reboot. But take time to develop it properly. In the meantime there's a lot of milk to squeeze from the current cast: a. You can make huge profit with Batfleck on the cheap of him going through Arkham 100% ripping off Raid and Dredd. b. 2 billion guys gonna buy tickets to watch Gal Gadot just waking up in the morning stretching her lovely arms out, making coffee then working out some yoga positions. c. Henry Cavill's Superman flies into his Fortress of Solitude carrying some boxes, opens them up and start building his new gaming PC would just do crazy stupid numbers
They were always going to have to do this. The most crucial decision they made was casting of Luthor and not making him the villain in man of steel or at least brainiac.
If there is a full recast coming, then it must have been a very recent development. Because why would they have Henry Cavill return and announce himself as coming back as Superman. Why would Gal Gadot be just mentioning about her excitement for WW3, and why would Dwayne Johnson be still so publicly talking about Black Adam and future film possibilities. So something doesn't smell right to me about a full recast. But I do think a full restart is required because there is just too much baggage in the DCEU from the Snyder era. Plus, with actors who are embroiled in controversy like Ezra and Amber, it is just neater to just start from scratch. its a bummer that we would lose Gal as WW, Henry as Superman, Affleck as Batman, Levi as Shazam, and Momoa as Aquaman, but if it helps kick off overall success, then that's good for DC.
I've been saying for the longest, the DCEU needs a full reboot. As much as I liked Affleck, Cavil, Momoa, Gadot, as the Hollywood Reporter quote mentioned, a full reboot would result in having "no baggage" from the previous movies. There were too many things wrong with the current DCEU. Having these soft reboots isn't going to fix something that was built on such poor foundation. Reboot the whole universe & start over fresh, with new Actors who aren't troublesome like Ezra & Heard. A reboot would get rid of the poorly miscasted Actors & poorly written characters & poorly written movies. I would hate for Eisenburg to continue being Lex. I would hate to keep seeing the Joker that we got in SS. SS was so bad, just based on everything I've heard I don't even think the Ayer cut would be good like how ZS's cut was much better than Whedons. They need to stop trying to make something out of Zack's universe, if we're gonna continue to use his characters, his universe that he started, you should've just let him finish what he started. I don't think he ever thought about making an entire cinematic universe, he's constantly said that he only planned on making 5 movies, MOS, BvS, JL1, JL2, & JL3. His 5th movie (JL3) would've probably have been released last year already & that could've been it, it would've closed the chapter & the DCEU could've been rebooted by now. Bring in some passionate Actors, who actually want these roles & aren't just looking for a check, as much as I liked Affleck, I don't feel like he truly had the heart to be a part of this universe, I mean he did what he can, but I never felt like he really wanted it, it seemed more like a drag to him. Maybe if it were more successful it would've turned his life around like the MCU kind of did for RDJ. Unfortunately, I felt like Cavil, Gadot, Momoa, Zachary Levi, Margot Robbie, were all passionate about their characters & they were really well casted, and I want to see more Cavil, but at this point I think a full-on reboot is necessary. They've already ruined too much with the DCEU. Start over & have a better plan. Do actual solo movies first, instead of trying to cramp everything together just so you can rush out a team up movie.
I big issue I see is that the DCEU movies that have since been produced has not earned enough because #1: over half of the movies that have put out did not score well on Rotten Tomatoes, and I think that is missing link. MCU has earned a lot of respect by having enough movies to score well on Rotten Tomatoes that the audience expects to have a decent good time for the money that they are willing to spend on. Lastly, WB has to take some of the blame in addition because of how long in between the audience has to wait for the DCEU movies to be released (as well as, the way that WB poorly markets the films).
Honestly it’s the best path forward. Drop the dead weight. The vocal minority that loved the Snyderverse won’t be happy regardless unless Snyder comes back. Most people will roll with it once we get cool announcements and casting. Simple and good foundation for a decade of solid projects sounds good to me
At first they tried to copy marvel with their own cinematic universe. Unfortunately they rushed it and blew it. Then change the approach and just made DC movies independently and not inter connected to one universe. And now they're changing it again and is trying to make another cinematic universe. Not sure what's really going on in there.
I think there Adler should be different tones for the DC trinity solo projects. Build of of the noir Gotham and bring Superman into a very art deco atmosphere, and a very classical Greek inspired feel for Wonder Womsn.
I don’t mind the reboot but it does piss me off they brought Cavill back and Ben Affleck for a second there in Aquaman 2 only to be like possibly nvm now. Yeah I get it “because they are good movies,” or could be I should still go see them but won’t lie my excitement dwindled substantially.
John you are spot on. I stopped seeing DCEU movies in theaters because of constant let downs. Even being a dc comic fan, I had no faith in the dceu brand
Seeks like they’re jumping the Gunn a little. They should at least have that Man of Steel 2 and Justice League 2 and then they can move on. This seems like the direction they were heading. They just keep lurching all over the place.
I don't see why John is so against doing the "Marvel formula" of introducing individuals and small teams then bring them together. DC didn't do it and it didn't work so... And The GotG comparison doesn't make sense cause they were just misfits that bumped into eachother to become heroes. Not people with already established superheroic pasts and origins and plethora of mythos tied to them. You can't compare Guardians to Justice League.
I'll stand on the Hill that Birds of Prey is one of DC's better movies very entertaining. Harley has the best trilogy I'm down for a clean slate for the DCEU
I agree that starting over with Justice League is a good idea. I don't agree with making a more lighthearted tone overall. Every character has their own tone and style. I love seeing how writers maneuvered around these different styles and tones whenever the characters would interact (in the animated shows). I want farm boy/good guy Clark/superman, play boy/detective/paranoid Bruce/batman, etc etc. Just stick to the best versions of these characters.
I think they would be stupid to reboot, Wonder Woman and recast Someone else, Gal Gadot, is the best Wonder Woman since Linda carter, but we only watched that just to see her. After we get Heney Cavill back we lose him again, and now Ben Affleck version of Batman is definitely gone. Nope not happy about this move.
I have been BEGGING for WB/DC to move on for YEARS now, and it looks like it might finally be happening. Whether you like the movies or not, the fact of the matter is The DCEU is a messy franchise with no clear direction, no solid foundation and more misses than hits. As much as I would like to see a third Wonder Woman movie (to make up for the weirdness of WW84), It's beyond time to hit the reset button and start fresh.
No more Gal Gadot?! No Wonder Woman 3?! All this excitement about Henry Cavill being Superman now down the drain?! I'm done. It's all Marvel from here on out. I'm going red, chief!
If I am not mistaken. This is the longest I can remember not having Ezra Miller news.
GIVEim "time", he'll do SOMETHINcrazy4sure... "trussME"🤨
That's the plan
At this point just recast them all, I can't keep waiting on a single actor or actress or director to make their vision of these characters. It's not rocket science just DO SOMETHING with Superman or Wonder Woman, if you gotta recast then do it. I'm tired of waiting around guessing which character is in the DCU and which isn't.
Ehhh something is not necessarily better than nothing, see Fantastic Four 🥴
Same here with you thoughts
FACTS
At this point scorch the earth with the DCEU and reboot it's the best option this whole thing aside from one or two films has been a cluster I say reboot everything and do it right
@@alih122 how is it “brainwashed.” It’s common sense. Everything in the DCEU right now is messy and divisive as hell and the smartest thing to do would be a clean slate.
@@alih122 you can reboot the stories and keep the actors
@@alih122 y’all need to let the DCEU go already, if it was great we wouldn’t be in this situation right now. CLEARLY what they’ve been doing is not working, and it’s left a convoluted mess of a universe. A hard reboot is the smartest way to go if you want DC to ever catch their footing.
Their half-hearted approach so far where they kind of reboot but kind of don't hasn't worked great and seems to have mostly just left casual audiences confused. I'd agree wiping the.slate clean is best, a few years ago I wouldn't have said so but they previous management has fucked things up and gotten everything so twisted and messy now that this is probably best
Well said. Thanks
IF they start with a Justice League International style movie, please just have them be an already established team of friends that has existed for years. No team building film, no origin story, just drop us into it.
Thats gonna flop. The only way that will work is if they literally put the animation Justice League War into live action.
I really hope this is the case. Whole new cast, whole new universe, start from scratch. No exceptions.
So allegedly, Henry leaves The Witcher for whatever they promised him at DC Films, and now, they allegedly decide to reboot it all and not use him. Sounds like Henry's getting screwed.
Whose fault is it?
It’s not personal
Well bout time he went to marvel and gets cast as wolverine
John, I appreciate that you are often careful about not making conclusions by reading between the lines or taking the headlines at face value, but I think you may have jumped the Gunn a bit on this one.
The article did not say WW3 will not still happen. It said that, in it's current incarnation, it is not moving forward. That Jenkins's submitted treatment doesn't fit the vision. But also that the steps forward have not been determined. There is much that is unknown, and WW3 could still happen at some point.
I haven’t felt this excited about the DCU since the announcement of BvS. A clean slate is exactly what DC needs and I hope everything (outside of The Batman) gets rebooted.
I agree with Rob's standpoint. Have the DC universe just start as a fully formed universe, where most of the heroes and villains already exist, there's a history and pre-established dynamics and relationships, there's multiple superhero teams, sidekicks, maybe even legacy characters like the JSA, all of that.
Films like Del Toro's Hellboy films or The Incredibles, or more importantly big franchises like Star Wars, Harry Potter and John Wick are great examples of how right off the bat they set up a world with a clear tone and style whilst being full of depth, to where pretty much anything could show up and it felt natural, and they felt like worlds where you could easily revisit and tell another story.
To me a defining feature of the DC universe compared to Marvel was that Marvel feels like our world but superheroes suddenly start appearing, phase 1 of the MCU I feel really reflects that idea, whereas for me DC has always been more stylized and otherworldly, from the fictional cities to the ways history sometimes varies to our own, it always had that inherent difference that allowed any character to just show up and they felt like they'd always been there, without needing some previously established backstory or justification for how they could exist. Whereas in Marvel superpowered characters feel sometimes like a recent phenomenon, in DC they feel engrained into that universe's culture a lot of the time.
A lot of the previous DC films I feel haven't quite pulled off that idea, mainly due to having so many varied filmmakers and the clear lack of any central plan, but James Gunn I'd say already did that in The Suicide Squad, so he knows how to pull that off. Plus looking at the non-film adaptation from DC that have been popular, such as the Arkham games or more noteworthy the DCAU, both of those (whilst different mediums from film) created universes that felt alive because they weren't all just starting out. Something like Justice League Unlimited opens by just showing at least 30 different superheroes all gathered in one room, they all already had their origins offscreen, so once one of those characters got a story focused on them it was very distinct since they weren't all origins.
If they really have a long term roadmap/plan and they can stick to it then this is the right decision. Better to start with a clean slate than constantly trying to contrive things and fix problems from previous movies.
THE ONLY THING CONFIRMED IS THEY DID NOT LIKE PATTY JENKINS WONDER WOMAN SCRIPT. and if it is anything like her last script, I do not blame them. Patty is definitely done but everything else is still up in the air, including Gal. but everyone has decided to pull rampant speculation out of their ass.
FULL REBOOT! I'm all for it, it's too much of a mess right now. And I say film Batman, Superman and Wonder woman movies at the same time and drop all 3 in the same year a few months apart....that would be an epic start
Throw the whole universe away and reboot. The DCEU is dead, bury it. Consider this mercy
Unfortunate as it is, it does feel like a mostly clean slate is necessary to get things straight.
new report says, jenkins walked when they asked her to do another treatmeant. lets face it, patty's wonder woman 2 was kind of bad.
I don't know, I think I'm not interested in the DCEU anymore, I'm tired. What comes out must be magnificent to catch my attention.
I agree I lost faith in DCEU
After wb shared Henry cavills video of him coming back as Superman and put him at the end of black Adam if they actually get rid of him now I am finally finished with this constant bs from WB. It would have been different had they just not said or done anything but they did and now a lot of fans are expecting this and to pull the carpet out from under us is very bad business. They also just screwed these final films out of having any great success because who gives a shit if they’re going to just reboot anyways. I think this is a very bad business decision.
I posted somewhere else, it’s interesting that no where in that Cavill post did he thank the Rock or his team for bringing him back . Meanwhile Rock mentioned many times how hard they worked to get him back. Knowing Zazzy wants Superman, he might be the one that actually survives. 🤔
I love your perception that a good movie is about writing and world building and not about actors. There has been so much drama around the current cast. The Ezra Miller and Amber Heard scandals and WW84 being a complete trainwreck. Maybe it's time for new faces.
If that's the case, then they should be no problem for recasting black panther. Right?
Flawed thinking in a sense. Yes writing and world building and not about actors so then EXACTLY how is rebooting gonna work when the actors are the only thing thats gonna change with DCU? Fuck Gunn i dont have faith in the whole WB mismanagement since back as far as Superman Returns
I don't believe Henry Cavill is gone. He's in, but the rest are needed for continuity. A reboot will be a hard sell. If the new actors aren't accepted, guess what, it was a big waste of time and money and back to square one again!
Wonder woman gets canceled, a silence falls across the crowd. Then a faint whisper "Nobody cares"
The first one was great. Second was bad. But I think it could have been saved. I don't personally care, but let's be fair.
1- How can they come up with that while they have 2 movies on the way coming from that world?
2- If they do reboot, I'm out.
Same here (like many other fans i talk to) if they reboot clean slate im DONE with DC
I'll wait until James Gunn and Peter Saffron actually announce what their plans are. I don't like to assume things. Personally as long as Shazam with Zachary Levi stays in the DCU for a while longer I'll be happy. Though I do like Henry's Superman and Jason's Aquaman.
Shazam and Black Adam both are OUTTA HERE.
I'm all up for a reboot. The unfortunate truth is though - the moment you recast the whole Internet will go nuts screaming that the old cast was better. Because the old cast is not really old at all and the previous regime's era is far too recent. If anything, they should leave this whole thing for 5-6 years and then reboot. But no one is going to do that.
I feel bad for Henry Cavill though. I never really cared for his Superman but I like him and he seemed so excited to be back just to be screwed over *again*
I‘d love to see him as Marvels Captain Britain
He is a good Superman. James Gunn needs to be careful here. A reboot could be better or worse.
@@jonfreeman9682 While he is good, there could be an actor out there that could play Superman just as well. People didn’t know how good Cavill was until he was given the chance so let’s see how good a new guy could be if they rebooted.
I always thought Flash was going to reboot the DCEU even before James Gunn Joined. Flash said “when I mess with time, time messes back”. Flash is based on Flash point.
I gave up on the DCEU after the cinematic abortion that was Batman vs Superman. The only way I will get back onboard is if the *WHOLE* thing is *COMPLETELY* rebooted from scratch.
The rock must be so pissed lol
DC may as well stand for Directly Canceled.
Under Discovery... IT DOES
You can’t cast Mamoa as Lobo. You have to wipe slate clear. It sucks, but you should not use main actors that played prominent characters in previous dceu.
It's fucking Lobo. He will be drowned in makeup.
They can cast Mamoa as Lobo
Chris Evans did it in the MCU. It is always a possibility. DCEU could use David Harbour from Stranger Things. He has Violent Night Santa movie out right now.
It’s low key kinda funny that this is happening due to the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe changing. Just not in the way the Rock thought. Lol
That comment lives in your head rent free.
@@dahhmlife I was gonna charge rent but Black Adam flopped.
Let Matt Reeves finish off his trilogy. Aside from that clean house. Get the Green Lanterns going.
I thought Flash was going to set up Flashpoint and fix all contrivances, but it seems they have no idea what direction to go in.
Getting rid of Cavill as superman and gal Gadot as wonder woman has me super pissed off
@@kurtshastany1945 Wrong.
I 100 percent agree
I played the Avengers movie (the 1st) for a girl who knew absolutely nothing about prev Marvel movies or comics. When it ended she said "that was sooo good!". They can definitely pull off a Justice League International movie without prior solo movies. I, like Rob, LOVED the Geffen, Dematis, Maguire run in the 80s.
13:41 Rob not holding back in the slightest when it came to Wonder Woman 84 lol. I definitely thought it was a step down when I saw it but in no way did I ever think it would spell the end of that franchise lol
It's funny because a couple of days ago a friend and I were talking about what if Warner bros were to announce that they'd scrap Wonder Woman and just start from scratch with a new actress, new director, and new story. I said I wouldn't care. The 1st movie came out way back in 2017. The hype revolving around that film is gone. WW84 was awful and no one cares about it anymore. If they announce that they're gonna do a full reboot on WW and other DC characters, I'm all in. It's needed.
For the longest time I've looked at the DCEU as similar to the Marvel movies before Marvel Studios launched with Iron Man. Some good stuff, a lot of bad. Mistakes had to be made to get to a strong, cohesive DC Universe. I still hope Gadot and Cavill stick around though.
Surely they wouldn't announce Henry's return to Superman and the scrap him a few weeks later.....right?
A few references??? The Snyder JL showed up at the end of Peacemakers
They were cameos. But they weren't big characters in the story.
One of the main charcters was Amanda Walker. daughter
I agree with everything that was said....however. I don't agree with Rob saying that DC should be a lighter tone now. I don't want a hokey pokey DC. I like DC being dark
I understand why everyone is kinda upset about this, but I feel that a reboot is necessary. The D.C.E.U is the perfect example of trying too hard to be different and as a result, failing as a whole. It never made sense to me, that they would release a Justice League movie, but only 2 members of the team got solo films before the team up, that’s not how you build a universe properly. What I admired about the early MCU was that the build up was organic, meaning a bunch of solo films, then the team up, then sequels, while new solo films come out, so if it worked for Marvel, what makes you think it couldn’t work for DC. And the fact that Birds of Prey, the Suicide Squad, and Black Adam got movies before Flash, Martian Manhunter, and Ben Affleck’s Batman, literal Justice League members, shows me that they don’t care about making a respectable universe. Every member of the league should’ve had a solo film before the team up, because not doing that will take away the character’s ability to stand on their own before they meet each other. For years, WB has been trying to keep up with the MCU, and they don’t even deny it at this point. The DCEU could’ve easily been a cohesive coherent universe if they did it the right way. Henry Cavill should’ve BEEN had a trilogy by now, and Ben Affleck should’ve gotten a solo movie before Robert Pattinson, but guess what? They made Batman vs Superman, which was originally supposed to be Man of Steel 2, but the execs at WB wanted to shove Batman up our asses as usual, and for some reason they killed off Superman, literally in Henry’s SECOND appearance as the character, and now Man of Steel 2 isn’t even happening anymore, so Henry came back for basically nothing. If you’re gonna make a movie of this magnitude this early, the least you could do is make it better than what it was. The fact that it didn’t even make 900 million at the box office is disturbing to me. A movie that had Superman, Batman, AND Wonder Woman together for the first time ever in film, should’ve made 1 billion dollars EASILY. Marvel literally made a civil war movie, filled with heroes that were c-list damn near d-list characters before 2008, and that movie made a billion easily, you wanna know why? Because they built up a universe the way it’s supposed to be made. Think about it, we’ve seen marvel build up 10 years to see Thanos, but could you imagine if DC did it right, and built up 10 years to see Darkseid??????? I would’ve been cumming in my pants. But aye, that’s Hollywood🤷🏽♂️ they need to wipe the slate completely clean and do it right this time, but I honestly don’t feel that they will at this point.
I couldn't agree more!
and also, they made a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie that FLOPPED .... I didn't even know this was possible
@@rodrigowolupeck1788 exactly bro. A Justice League movie is a easy 1.5 billion dollar movie, and it makes me sad that it didn’t even make 700 million. How is that possible, when the Avengers made a billion easily? A team of c-list heroes?
I still feel like Gunn is going to do exactly what he did with The Suicide Squad. He’s gonna use what he wants from the prior iteration, and leave behind what he doesn’t want, without contradicting it. You just can’t throw away Gadot or Momoa. That’s crazy and the stupidest thing I can imagine them doing. That will set DC even further behind. A reboot will make people see them as even more of a joke. They need to quit stopping and starting at the first sign of trouble. It’s pathetic..
If I were Gunn, I would reboot this whole shit. Fuck Gadot and Mamoa.
@@infeliz2405 I don’t understand what is so irreparable that warrants a total reboot. Everyone likes the majority of the casting choices. All of the characters are established, their origins have been covered, the JL is established. We don’t need to see this stuff done over again. We can just move forward.
@@dundundundun8816 Who's everyone? The desperate Snyder bots? The Twitter echo chamber?
No true DC FAN wants a " knee slapping , gee golee , shucks " super hero world.. nobody.. the brand will get laughed at in a bad way..
Yeah, because lord knows we ALL want the moody, grim, dark, bleak, humorless world of Snyder 🙄
@@RoyalT115 never said that either
Thank you guys! You don’t need solo films to build up to Justice League. You can start with the team up, then go from there.
I believe that there’s going to be certain actors or characters that are going to transition into the next evolution of the DCU. I could honestly see James gun turning Blue Beetle into DC’s version of Spider-Man with a little bit of campy Eddie/Venom relationship.
I have to agree, if they are going todo this then REBOOT it all and I mean everything and not keeping the same actors. I love what we got in the past and with those actors but since this is happening. Go all in and start over
I have no clue what to think about this news. Feels like DC film is in such disarray if everything is true. Beyond chaotic.
A reboot only works if you have good story and writing while also fixing the other problems that plagued the previous movies.
It’s sad because the stories and characters in the comics are so good but thanks to the bad handling of the cinematic universe they’ve been darkened.
While doing a clean slate MIGHT be a good idea in the long run, it's likely that this will hurt them in the next couple years because announcing this now essentially makes it so that there's no point in seeing any of 3 the films that are already shot and waiting to be released. Could be a major hit at the box office.
No one cares. If the movies are good, people will go to see
A fun Superman movie but with an in depth villains would do.
Hallelujah. Let's get this started over. Fresh start is find with me. Let's move forward.
Tbf the report didn't say that WW3 was fully scrapped. Just that Gunn and Safran rejected her take and treatment on it.
John's right though there is a lot of baggage with DC right now. I didn't see Black Adam because I was like 'ugh more generic sub-par DC bullshit'
I heard a theory that Gunn might just reboot the DCU based on the New 52, that would be awesome.
Wow. Crazy theory. Sigh.
The New 52 bombed
Trying to find a positive, allegedly, Saffron held meetings with creative, so the DCU might not feel like an extention of James Gunn's previous DC work. As much as I enjoyed the Snyder stuff, I understand what didn't work. There were some terrible choices, for every good one. But those movies will always be there. I'm fine witha reboot, as long as we get honest depictions, not deconstructions, of The Trinity, Flash, Green Lantern, let them lead a solid depiction of the DCU, and let none of it feel like Snyder's dark deconstructions or James Gunn's "humorous" takes.
I do wish they had given ‘Wonder Woman’ another shot. Though Jenkins shouldn’t have bought it poisonous Johns to co-write the treatment she handed in.
If this is what DC plans on doing, I’d be really saddened. I love DC and Marvel, but DC has a special place in my heart. All the actors in the DCEU I feel have done a fantastic job with what they were given and I don’t want to part with them. Especially superman. Even if they start from scratch respectfully, I can’t and won’t support it.
What if they retooled Blue Beetle to have that be the first movie in a new universe, where the end of the movie opens the door for the audience, through the eyes of the new kid on the block Jaime Reyes. Have it take place in a larger universe, but we only see this afterwards through this new character
Is not going to be easy to restart everything & recasting all the characters. Is gonna be time consuming and if they ever set on the wrong foot again, there's no turning back.
Among all the shocking announcements, I feel sorry to Henry Cavill that the studio has betray him again with all those cameos that he was so excited to make official statements about him returning as Supe & even sacrificing his main role from the Witcher. That sounds so awful & embarrassing to his career. Wonder if WB would actually pay him some compensation coz they literally have tricked him into believing that he be wearing that cape again.
Henry just let go of Witcher and Superman most likely won't push thru. I feel bad for him.
@@DavidDatura yep it was stupidity on his agents end
Step 1. Use the tone & lineup from the Justice League animated series
Step 2. Print money.
I saw people mad about this on Twitter, and I just laughed cuz this is the most DC Comics shit ever. Rebooting is as big a part of the DC brand as Superman and Batman
Thank God. Scrap All Theatrical. If we don’t like it, we can always go back to what’s already done.
I've felt the DCEU has needed to end for a long time I will miss Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn but the DCEU is a mess and it needs to end.
Wonder Woman 1984 was absolutely god awful. One of the worse superhero films ever.
For everyone saying Caval abandon Netflix for nothing he said if they decided to not follow the books, then he would leave and that’s what happened!
I agree to the reboot. But take time to develop it properly. In the meantime there's a lot of milk to squeeze from the current cast:
a. You can make huge profit with Batfleck on the cheap of him going through Arkham 100% ripping off Raid and Dredd.
b. 2 billion guys gonna buy tickets to watch Gal Gadot just waking up in the morning stretching her lovely arms out, making coffee then working out some yoga positions.
c. Henry Cavill's Superman flies into his Fortress of Solitude carrying some boxes, opens them up and start building his new gaming PC would just do crazy stupid numbers
Dread it . run from it. Dc failure still arrives
That doesn't make sense in context of a complete reboot.
It was a bad idea to base the tone of DC films on the Dark Knight just because that was successful
As long as the SnyderVerse never resurfaces I’m happy.
They were always going to have to do this. The most crucial decision they made was casting of Luthor and not making him the villain in man of steel or at least brainiac.
If there is a full recast coming, then it must have been a very recent development. Because why would they have Henry Cavill return and announce himself as coming back as Superman. Why would Gal Gadot be just mentioning about her excitement for WW3, and why would Dwayne Johnson be still so publicly talking about Black Adam and future film possibilities. So something doesn't smell right to me about a full recast. But I do think a full restart is required because there is just too much baggage in the DCEU from the Snyder era. Plus, with actors who are embroiled in controversy like Ezra and Amber, it is just neater to just start from scratch. its a bummer that we would lose Gal as WW, Henry as Superman, Affleck as Batman, Levi as Shazam, and Momoa as Aquaman, but if it helps kick off overall success, then that's good for DC.
I agree they definitely should reboot. People crying on Twitter shouldn't sway James Gunn and Peter Safran from doing their job.
I've been saying for the longest, the DCEU needs a full reboot. As much as I liked Affleck, Cavil, Momoa, Gadot, as the Hollywood Reporter quote mentioned, a full reboot would result in having "no baggage" from the previous movies. There were too many things wrong with the current DCEU. Having these soft reboots isn't going to fix something that was built on such poor foundation. Reboot the whole universe & start over fresh, with new Actors who aren't troublesome like Ezra & Heard. A reboot would get rid of the poorly miscasted Actors & poorly written characters & poorly written movies. I would hate for Eisenburg to continue being Lex. I would hate to keep seeing the Joker that we got in SS. SS was so bad, just based on everything I've heard I don't even think the Ayer cut would be good like how ZS's cut was much better than Whedons. They need to stop trying to make something out of Zack's universe, if we're gonna continue to use his characters, his universe that he started, you should've just let him finish what he started. I don't think he ever thought about making an entire cinematic universe, he's constantly said that he only planned on making 5 movies, MOS, BvS, JL1, JL2, & JL3. His 5th movie (JL3) would've probably have been released last year already & that could've been it, it would've closed the chapter & the DCEU could've been rebooted by now. Bring in some passionate Actors, who actually want these roles & aren't just looking for a check, as much as I liked Affleck, I don't feel like he truly had the heart to be a part of this universe, I mean he did what he can, but I never felt like he really wanted it, it seemed more like a drag to him. Maybe if it were more successful it would've turned his life around like the MCU kind of did for RDJ. Unfortunately, I felt like Cavil, Gadot, Momoa, Zachary Levi, Margot Robbie, were all passionate about their characters & they were really well casted, and I want to see more Cavil, but at this point I think a full-on reboot is necessary. They've already ruined too much with the DCEU. Start over & have a better plan. Do actual solo movies first, instead of trying to cramp everything together just so you can rush out a team up movie.
Rob’s idea is on point. Start with Justice League. We know everyone’s backstory. Let’s go. Im down for a full recast.
Great discussion.
Rob and John knocked it out of the park.
Snyder fans though I’m sure are fuming lol
I don't know anything about The Witcher show, but you mean Henry Cavil up and left that show - just to get this news. What a mess!
I big issue I see is that the DCEU movies that have since been produced has not earned enough because #1: over half of the movies that have put out did not score well on Rotten Tomatoes, and I think that is missing link. MCU has earned a lot of respect by having enough movies to score well on Rotten Tomatoes that the audience expects to have a decent good time for the money that they are willing to spend on. Lastly, WB has to take some of the blame in addition because of how long in between the audience has to wait for the DCEU movies to be released (as well as, the way that WB poorly markets the films).
Please just don’t touch Henry cavill..Idc if Gunn reboots everything else.
Honestly it’s the best path forward. Drop the dead weight. The vocal minority that loved the Snyderverse won’t be happy regardless unless Snyder comes back. Most people will roll with it once we get cool announcements and casting. Simple and good foundation for a decade of solid projects sounds good to me
At first they tried to copy marvel with their own cinematic universe. Unfortunately they rushed it and blew it. Then change the approach and just made DC movies independently and not inter connected to one universe. And now they're changing it again and is trying to make another cinematic universe. Not sure what's really going on in there.
I think there Adler should be different tones for the DC trinity solo projects. Build of of the noir Gotham and bring Superman into a very art deco atmosphere, and a very classical Greek inspired feel for Wonder Womsn.
I don’t mind the reboot but it does piss me off they brought Cavill back and Ben Affleck for a second there in Aquaman 2 only to be like possibly nvm now. Yeah I get it “because they are good movies,” or could be I should still go see them but won’t lie my excitement dwindled substantially.
John you are spot on. I stopped seeing DCEU movies in theaters because of constant let downs. Even being a dc comic fan, I had no faith in the dceu brand
Wake me up when DC knows what they are doing.
Idc what happens just don’t mess with Matt Reeves The Batman movies
Seeks like they’re jumping the Gunn a little. They should at least have that Man of Steel 2 and Justice League 2 and then they can move on. This seems like the direction they were heading. They just keep lurching all over the place.
A medieval theme for the wonder woman sequel would be awesome!
8:36 might be my favorite moment on this show next to “hot dog on a stick”
I don't see why John is so against doing the "Marvel formula" of introducing individuals and small teams then bring them together. DC didn't do it and it didn't work so... And The GotG comparison doesn't make sense cause they were just misfits that bumped into eachother to become heroes. Not people with already established superheroic pasts and origins and plethora of mythos tied to them. You can't compare Guardians to Justice League.
I'll stand on the Hill that Birds of Prey is one of DC's better movies very entertaining. Harley has the best trilogy
I'm down for a clean slate for the DCEU
We knew that Flashpoint would reset the universe. People forget things…
I Stand!! With this Move ✌️, Great Job James!!., Flash point will erase the old DCEU.
I agree that starting over with Justice League is a good idea. I don't agree with making a more lighthearted tone overall. Every character has their own tone and style. I love seeing how writers maneuvered around these different styles and tones whenever the characters would interact (in the animated shows). I want farm boy/good guy Clark/superman, play boy/detective/paranoid Bruce/batman, etc etc. Just stick to the best versions of these characters.
I think they would be stupid to reboot, Wonder Woman and recast Someone else, Gal Gadot, is the best Wonder Woman since Linda carter, but we only watched that just to see her. After we get Heney Cavill back we lose him again, and now Ben Affleck version of Batman is definitely gone. Nope not happy about this move.
" but we only watched that just to see her. " I'm not enought people showed up for WW2...Gal Gadot is an ok actress but certainly not irreplaceable.
Flashpoint. They need to keep Cavill.... Just not the same version of him..... F*** recasting him after we just got him back.
I can see it now. Start Justice League in the watch tower in space. It will tell you so much.
WB had way more than enough time to make Man of Steel 2, but they decided to make Black Adam instead.
I have been BEGGING for WB/DC to move on for YEARS now, and it looks like it might finally be happening. Whether you like the movies or not, the fact of the matter is The DCEU is a messy franchise with no clear direction, no solid foundation and more misses than hits. As much as I would like to see a third Wonder Woman movie (to make up for the weirdness of WW84), It's beyond time to hit the reset button and start fresh.
And what if they do a hard reboot and THAT doesn't work either?
@@stuunitt2947 I'd rather see them try something new and risk failing than continue to flog a dead horse
Everything you need at 13:07 and onward.
Thanks! 😂
If there is a reboot- I want a hard reset. Everything gone. As much as I love Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad- they're apart of the DCEU.
No more Gal Gadot?! No Wonder Woman 3?! All this excitement about Henry Cavill being Superman now down the drain?! I'm done. It's all Marvel from here on out. I'm going red, chief!
Or go none.
Yep. I'm not behind getting rid of Wonder Woman and Henry Cavill.