Stop Blaming Freelance , How's the Ranking System ? - Splatoon 3 Salmon Run
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- How's Freelance in Salmon Run? Is it really holding people back? Let's talk about the Ranking System and the health of the Community!
00:00 - Stop Blaming Freelance
01:29 - Ranking System, it's there to challenge you!
04:44 - Freelance, is it bad?
09:53 - What then?
12:31 - Final Thoughts
Join our Community discord : / discord
405 Golden Eggs Overfishing - • Incredible Overfishing...
Spawning Grounds Griller Wave Guide - • Easy Spawning Grounds ...
Horrorboros Guide - • How To Beat Horrorboro...
Twitter: / hdhazmy
----------------------------------------------------------
Support me on Ko-fi! : ko-fi.com/hdhazmy
----------------------------------------------------------
#splatoon3 #salmonrun 
Игры
![Roddy Ricch - Survivors Remorse [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J5IeFzr2GgE/mqdefault.jpg)
The worst thing about higher ranks is when the game spawns too many salmonids and frame rate tanks as a result
I've played too many EVP matches where the game starts chugging from dense spawns
@@fleromor this is especially bad in Marooner's Bay tbh everything slows down but the time keeps ticking down normally as if thats fair lol
@@str0bri508 As if marooner's isn't hard enough without artificial difficulty... isn't really like they can fix it either unless they can make the game run more efficiently.
True, when I struggle, it seems it is based on the difficulty of the rotation and not necessarily the teammates in free lance. The only thing I blame them for is using the specials to celebrate after we win when we could have used them earlier.
This is a HUGE freelance problem, especially in lower ranks.
I used to blame em for that too then I started to do the same thing..ONLY because sometimes I forget what wave I'm on and realize too late
Last week someone used their special on a tornado wave......... wave 1............ Hoping they just pressed it by mistake lmao
Occasionally there'll be a shift where you won't need both specials, but if there was even a single time where you get even close to being overrun then I agree
One good way to remind ppl on fl that they have specials is to use one yourself when it's needed, and hopefully in front of them where they see it. People tend to kinda get reminded then and follow suit. But if they don't then just assume that they are still learning, or they're overwhelmed to the point that they can't use one, and just accept that it do be like that sometimes and move to the next shift (and team)
Your point about 100 points being way too short for ranks to be any real proof of someone's experience is actually something I never thought about! And related to this, something that I miss from Splatoon 2 is how the ranks would have a "checkpoint" at 400. I highly respect those who reach EVP 999, I wish I could get there too but grinding all the way from 40 to 999 is incredibly tiresome, even on a very fun rotation and despite my average score being between EVP 400 and 600. I get how frustrating it can get to be forced by the game to start off with low EVP players when you wanna grind, although I absolutely don't think it's a reason to shame anyone!
Yeah, I think 'consistently getting to 100-120 or 17-190 and then stalling until I improved' would have been a far less... Annoying... Experience than the one I had of bouncing between +1 and +2 and then +2 and +3 when kind of on the threshold between the ranks. My move from +3 to EVP was far less irritating when I was just getting to +3 80 and then just stalling out before sticking in EVP in my first trip there for about 2-3 weeks.
I do wonder why they changed that checkpoint system. And the only reason I can think of is to mix the player base together more for the king salmonids. They want the 400+ players from Splatoon 2 to carry the others for the king salmonids fights.
And the reason I think this is because it only takes 4 matches, with a win on the 4th match to spawn it. That's assuming the team doesn't change. Which means anyone that would have been locked in at 400 would only play at 400+.
So what it does is slow down the progression for the salmon run rewards and keeps people playing over w longer period of time. The lesser skilled players get help from the more skilled players. So they get rewards more quickly than they would have to keep it from being too much of a grind. At the same time, it keeps the more skilled players, who would have better chances of getting silver and gold scales, from getting the rewards too quickly.
Salmon run is intentionally grindy for the rewards. And they're purposefully mixing the player base together.
@@shane_MK The idea of mixing players together is brilliant in theory, but in practice it quickly gets wack especially since Splatoon offers for so little communication options, making mentoring really tough unless you go out of your way to join discord servers and other communities >
@@tinowo5682 I agree that it needs changed. But that's definitely what they're going for.
The whole point about the rank system existing to challenge you is a super important realization to have, and heavily applies to anarchy battle too. I was hard stuck in A+ for a while and was frustrated because I really believed I deserved a higher rank. All of my rank up matches were super stressful because of that and in multiple attempts I went 0-3.
It's a natural urge to want the highest rank in something, so it can definitely take some humility to admit that the rank you're in is the one you currently belong in, but admitting that to yourself makes the process of getting better a lot healthier and way less stressful. I used to be afraid of playing rank up battles but now it's like, I'm gonna play them like I would any other match and if I manage to rank up then it's a symbol of my improvement. And I don't rank up then I'm just not at that skill level yet, nothing to be ashamed about.
Exactly. The problem is that communities idolize ranks in games and so it encourages people to stress about their own ranks - not realizing that Ranks exist to provide you with an appropriate challenge. It isn't a matter of prestige.
The point of ranks is to challenge you according to your skill. If you just want to win, then games that let you choose difficulties instead are the design you are looking for like Deep Rock Galactic.
Yeah unfortunately I can relate to this quite a bit. I was stuck in A rank for awhile. I thought to myself I so often get the most splats out of my teammates and that my team was holding me back. But I now realize I usually didn’t push the objective in meaningful ways. I’m still in A rank now but I am trying to actively improve my skills instead of getting mad at my team.
Anarchy Battle isn’t a functional ranking system. X Battle is the only pvp ranked in the game
I been playing Salmon Run freelance all the time because I have no friends! (Since Splatoon 3 came out!)
But Hazmy, I disagree…there are Problems with Freelance and here is the list of issues!
1, Some of the Teammates are not collecting Eggs when the bosses get Killed!
2, Teammates are not using their specials or use it in the last few seconds of the round!
3, Teammates do not know about the tips and tricks in order to get Eggs easier!
4, When you call your Teammates to come (This Way), But their do not come to help you at all!
5, Teammates wasting both specials for no reason!
6, Teammates do not stop moving around, when you are trying to bring you back after getting splatter or they do not care to bring you back!
7, Teammates keep getting splatter each second!
8, Alway one or two Teammates keeps ruin your plans to kill bosses by splatting it with the UFO Salmon but killing the UFO Salmon before using it!
9, Not luring bosses to the basket!
and finally, 10, Teammates or I get target by the beam towers, but do not taking down the towers or when the missiles target on you, they are luring the missiles back on other teammates and they get splatted!
Well at least one person gets it.
I don't know if it's significant for others, but something that always made the ranking system frustrating to me was the framing device that this is a job that I'm getting paid for. In-universe, Mr. Grizz looks at these matches where we lost because I missed one egg toss or my teammates didn't know how to bait grillers and says "yea they deserve to get a pay cut, they clearly failed out of incompetence" and then looks at matches where we only got mothership, tornado, and mudmouths and says "this obviously took extreme talent to perform, I'm going to give them a raise." The rank system being flawed isn't just the game being frustrating, it's your boss being bad at running a business, and that makes it feel like these problems should be more obvious to the devs because obviously Mr. Grizz would get more people to work at his companies if he fixed these problems.
Splatoon is generally a gameplay balance over lore type game. If something is not being fixed the devs are either intentionally ignoring it or genuinely do not know how to fix it.
Sometimes I think the general freelance negativity is just impatience. I exclusively play freelance and salmon run is my favorite game mode that I play most of the time. I would stagnate at ranks and accepted that those were my current skill levels, but now I can comfortably make it to EVP 200-300 every rotation and proudly display my gold big run badge. But that's 7 months of hard work!!! And watching Hazmy videos :) I don't blame anyone for not being able to put in the time (the grinding mentality isn't very healthy), but if your teams aren't doing well... maybe it's best just to see it as practice and part of the work to improve. One of my favorite parts about freelance is the teamwork and adapting to others' game play. I only get sad with my freelance teams if they don't booyah back :P
Literally nobody’s good at working as a team on free lance I can only play free lance as non of my friends like salmon run and at EVP 40 I got stuck because people are just so bad at knowing the role of their weapons and looking out for each other and killing lesser salmonids
I know I’m not great at salmon run but it’s definitely not me that’s the whole problem and when everyone around you has no clue about what their doing it’s practically impossible to improve
@@yuri_mony989 I hear you. I only play freelance too, and it can be frustrating without proper communication.
But when you say nobody is good at teamwork in freelance then you're including yourself, and that makes me sad. You've gotten to EVP 40, so you've had a lot of wins to get there. If you're the one putting in the work to learn the weapons and look out for your teammates, know you're not the only one doing that, and you really will be rewarded with improvement. If you think you're part of the problem, then you know that practice and patience is what is going to get you out. If everyone in freelance was bad, or if bad teammates could hold everyone back, then it would've been impossible for us to climb ranks at all. Good luck out there fellow freelancer
@@fruitbowlcut the only reason I managed to get that high was because a played non stop everyday it was mainly just people losing in the first round and I played a bunch today to see if maybe I had just been on a loosing streak or something but nope nobody was killing the lesser salmonids as usual so I was stuck killing them with a sniper type weapon whilst we got over run by boss salmonids and this always happens to me whenever I play and I’ve got higher than EVP 40 it’s just that since it resets every rotation I’m stuck trying to get in a game where people don’t use their weapons for what their suited for
In fact today I decided after a couple games to lower my rank to overachiever to try figure out where I was struggling whilst moving up I even ended up in a game where the quota was seven because somebody quit and of course I ended up with the sniper type weapon and guess what non of them bothered killing the lesser salmonids they only went for the bosses and I Was left reviving them for the whole game and we only got six in
And yes I was including myself on purpose when I said nobody good at team work because if you don’t have a good team then you can’t work as a team because everyone pleases them selves and dies at the shoreline
I feel like freelance shaming is typically born out of frustration, and frustration gets the worst traits to manifest in the otherwise nice, average people. It's something I've been guilty of myself, when I see a freelance teammate run to the shore, get splatted, and immediately call for help, I can't help but groan in frustration, knowing that the team will be 3/4th as effective as usual. It's a pretty common response. It's no excuse for bullying, not in the slightest, but when you're trying to have fun, the extra carry weight can stifle that. Although I have personally noticed that, once you get into VP150+, basically every freelance player rises dramatically in skill, so it's not a big problem in higher levels.
And remember that, at one point, you were in the lower ranks too, dying at shore to a chum and compromising the match. Have a little bit of empathy for the poor guys at the bottom who are still trying to figure things out. They might not be good, but they're trying their best.
I never thought I would miss the checkpoint system until I've heard it takes over 6 hours of nonstop play to get 999. I gave up getting those gold badges because not only that's an unhealthy amount of grinding, but pretty discouraging/intimidating to reach even halfway. I even stopped playing past the two super bonuses because even the incentive of it isn't there (payout on gold/silver scales are abysmal). I know my personal hard/skill cap is 180, regardless of rotation and I won't be able to get past it. I do want those badges but I do not have the energy to play only Salmon Run for 6+ hours a day. I like the mode but I'm not going to lie when I say my enjoyment of it has diminished overtime.
The most frustrating part about this is when it straight up undeniably is the rando's fault. I always stop and think about what I could have done better - and ive noticed that I've gotten better, but the number of times I've matched with someone sporting a golden Big Run badge who also sits on the shore silently after getting splatted is too high. If you've got fancy Salmon Run badges, you should know that the Explosher kills flyfish.
Well, you can’t deny that some people just play better than others. That does *NOT* mean they’re perfect nor should they make fun of others. It’s also kind of annoying to a lot of people that they *have* to carry, because while you bring up that “if you’re actually a good player, you can carry most matches”, the point is that players shouldn’t have to, since it’s a team effort and that’s just encouraging players to rely on others which is also a pretty toxic mindset. At least, that’s my biggest gripe currently with Salmon Run.
That's the fault of the system being competitive. A Ranking System by itself means it's a competitive system and thus wants you to push yourself to your limits.
In Ranking Systems you have to carry if you wanna climb as you have to prove you are better than the rank ou are on. It's the definition of the system
@@HDHaZmY We shouldn't be encouraging the mindset that you should 'carry' a team in order to progress to a difficulty level more appropriate for yourself. The concept of carrying is what undermines the entire system.
What is the result of carrying a team of lower-skilled players? They progress to a higher difficulty when they were unprepared for the one they were already on, and they become a greater liability for whoever is expected to carry them in the next game. This problem occurs in every mode of Splatoon and it all comes back to one fundamental problem - the game judges you on an individual basis for a team performance. In any given situation in Splatoon, you have no more than 25% control over your own outcome, and that's just not a good way to treat players.
Not every game needs to be carried - it's still a team effort and most of the time people are playing according to their ranks, despite people saying otherwise.
If you even carry someone up to a higher level, they will naturally also lose a lot and fall back. Will there be people who have harder games? Yes - but statistically the way a Ranked System works is that if you belong to a certain rank you will win more and lose less and approach the rank where you should be able to play comfortably.
The problem is that people constantly think, others get lucky with teams - and it is only them who get the bad ones.
@@HDHaZmY Yes, if you carry someone to a level where they don't belong, they will naturally fall back down. That's fine, but it's not just them falling back down - they will drag their teammates with them, and those teammates might have worked very hard and spent a long time to get to where they are only to lose their progress because of someone who was not prepared to be there.
I think sometimes people do get lucky teams, and sometimes people get unlucky teams. I'm a player who only plays freelance, and I have reached 999 many times and ranked top 5% in each big run. The hardest part of Salmon Run for me is always, without a doubt, getting through EVP 40-200. Sometimes I will play for 2 hours, and will not break past 100, just because I am grouped with players who are not prepared for the difficulty spike (although it is not their fault!). I can absolutely understand why some players feel like they are only getting lower skilled teammates, because sometimes it actually does just happen. We shouldn't be telling people that their experiences are wrong or bad, it's understandable that they would be frustrating, and if we tell them instead that really it's them that needs to improve, we're basically just saying 'get good' but in a more polite way. It's just not very helpful.
It's a frustrating system, which is why I think you should have more points in a Rank than 100 and start from higher not 40!
So if a player who isn't ready, drags down a team, you will still stay in your rank if you truly belong there as on average you should be able to win back other games.
Definitely agree and I appreciate you making this video! It's always better to look within and improve yourself instead of focusing on others and blaming them. While yes, we can get bad team mates in fl, we need more understanding that most people are trying their best, learning, and we ourselves can always always do better. And our experience of the game and others will definitely be healthier, fun and sustainable with good mentality.
all good points. i wish they would add the ability to rewatch salmon run matches like we can rewatch the PVP game modes from every players' perspective. i think it would help a lot of people who only play freelance (like me) because during a crazy wave it can be difficult to self-evaluate
Probably way too much data to save since it's way more than 8 players and their weapons and movement.
Once I learned not to blame randos I have improved a lot and become more aware of what my teammates are doing and assist them when I can.
Thanks for making content on Salmon Run! I haven't touched Turf War or Ranked for a long time I only do shifts for a LIVING.
A very important thing to internalize is that winning 50% of your games statistic
It’s not as cut and dry in this mode because losing earlier means bigger drops in rank but keeping it in mind and humbling yourself makes it a lot more enjoyable!
YES! YES Thank you!
IF you are on your correct Rank, you will be winning only around 50% of your games.
I do definitely feel like it's both too easy to rank up and too easy to rank down. I've met a lot of people who seem a bit carried to profresh by nice rotations and tornado waves, and I've also met players far better than me who I feel bad because I'm weighing them down and I know they wish they could just get back into the high evps. I'm just glad I'm back in evp after a long time getting unlucky with rotations and waves and not being quite good enough to carry.
Yes we do need longer ranks to secure more accurate skill levels for sure!
@@HDHaZmY interesting but how long would you propose the ranks to be? you also mentioned in another comment a few months back (to rachelskii) that checkpoints, helping to get to EVP 999 earlier is pointless and doesn’t mean anything .. not sure what you meant by that?
@@kikilaker6698 I think if they increased ranks from 100 to 200 would already help a lot, for the majority.
But without rank-up battles and how the reset works, I still don't think checkpoints will actually help stabilize EVP ranks at all, since people play the system by stopping playing before they would drop - so that way they keep their ranks.
The whole system needs an overahaul.
in the heat of the loss, I do get into the habit of blaming my teammates. On reflection, I need to git gud. Being stuck around Profresh +3 for ages has made me realise this. This video rocks!
You'll get there. I was stuck oscilating between +1 and +2, then +2 and +3 and finally at +3 80 for a while. But for the past month or two I've been low EVP (with a couple of dips back down for 1-2 shifts now and then, but none of the rank yoyoing it felt like I was doing when going from +1 to +2 and then +2 to +3)
I’m still gonna blame ppl when they don’t put in any eggs in 3 rounds and die 8 times
Something I remember always being said back when I was in band, was to assume you’re in the wrong if, when playing a piece, something didn’t go right whether it be a wrong note or rushing/dragging. Not in a “You’re never good enough way” but in a more “Don’t get cocky, you can make mistakes to. That’s fine, just make sure to improve upon yourself the best that you can.”. It’s something that’s always stuck with me because it’s so applicable to so many situations. Including what’s been described in the video of players assuming they’re never the reason why they failed a shift.
I personally believe that a huge problem about salmon run are the waves themselves.
There should be a cap on how many certain bosses show up, for example flyfish should be limited to only two present at the same time.
Wavebreakers NEED to be able the same treatment bombs do to revive teammates.
Finally, a big one for me is to let the community practice with any weapon in a solo scenario instead of limited us to the splattershot.
I think the Waves are fine and there are boss limits actually.
But I do agree about Salmon Run requiring more Tutorials and practice options!
Bosses are capped at 3 of the same type at once, so there can only be 3 flyfish alive at the same time. This is why people occasionally cripple flyfish instead of killing them during higher evp shifts. I *think* this cap it raised to 4 during max hazard but I am very unsure about that so take it with a grain of salt
@@HDHaZmY nah the other day i killed a stinger, and another spawned on the other side of the map in which i go to kill it only to get shot by another right where i came from. this stuff needs to be nerfed like a 10-15 second timer after a shore boss salmonid (Stinger, flyfish, big shot) spawns, another one can’t spawn.
Horde numbers are absolutely not the problem. That’s just the difficulty slider. You’re asking for a lower difficulty, which has been available to you since launch. For the flyfish specifically, the issue is game balance- and pretty much everyone across the board can unanimously agree flyfish are broken, buggy and way too resource intensive.
That aside training scenarios with custom weapons, boss combos, night waves etc. would be a huge help, but also unlikely from a gamedev perspective. Hell the splatoon devs can’t even get the brellas right after a year.
@@kynon1008 good to know as it definitely didn't feel like there was a cap of 3 alive at once a few weeks ago on EVP 20. Two flyfish spawning at once on high tide, marooners bay! Eight of them appeared! One gets taken out, immediately after another one spawns, or if both were splatted, 2 more come in. It was annoying!
Completely agree- too many times have I seen people blaming everything other than themselves and not thinking about what they could do better- I recently got 999 on the last map I needed (sockeye) on only freelance and lost about ~9 games total. Sometimes I’ll have “bad teammates” but at the end of the day, EVERYONE makes mistakes and anyone can have bad games. Sometimes I’ll look like a “bad teammate” to other people and that’s fine. Usually I give those people another chance and stay in the lobby and most of the time they’ll have done much better the next game. The point is, we all have bad games and that’s perfectly ok
Yes, I also have not so experienced team mates a lot of times - but I always notice things I did wrong, or I played lazily and could have done things way better, especially with how I know I COULD play.
@@HDHaZmY I understand being frustrated, for example on the current rotation we had mudmouths and the explosher clearly didn’t know that it counted as a bomb and never used it on them, but I’m not expecting everyone to know that- if you aren’t looking at guides on RUclips or on Twitter most people aren’t gonna figure that out unless they see someone else do it. I think people forget that not everyone uses a lot of social media especially for gaming and they should not be expected to- it is just a game (and we still won the wave perfectly fine)
If you play that much I assume it should be simple enough to gauge a players general performance regardless of their current results. Sometimes I stay in matches I get a bad feeling about and the person I got that feeling from karmas me. Sometimes I understand someone got screwed over in the last game and stick around and they pull through. I don’t know whether it’s just general gamesense but for me at least there’s a difference between ‘damn that sucks, I’m sorry man,’ and ‘oh my god what are they doing’
@@saycap Because everyone can have moments like that regardless of skill level, especially when I first start playing for the day on higher hazard levels I’ll have moments where I’ll die 5 times and go “what the hell am I doing” I don’t necessarily care about losing or my rank most of the time so sometimes when starting up I can be sluggish. I assume many people are also just playing for fun so I don’t expect everyone to be at their 100%
@@Lucy5719 the issue is that high ranks kind of require you to be at 100% be default. I think I can maybe autopilot until around 300 but high HL will always be stressful.
Thank you for speaking up about this!! Too often I'll see people blaming everything on freelance, and while yes maybe getting a team where not everyone knows what their doing DOES make it harder, it's definitely not impossible. I worked my way up and constantly freelance in high hazards and I find the best way to improve is by looking back at what I did wrong, not what I think my team messed up with. A little goes a LONG way, so sharpening your own skills and bettering yourself can be the push you need to make it over the mountain that sr can sometimes seem to be. Good luck to all you fellow salmon runners, I wish you all many won games ❤️
Sounds like toxic positivity, hiding legitimate critisim over the game and its poor matchmaking and salmon run rank system by saying "eh, its probably YOU not them"
No, its them. Im at the over fisher level and I can tell for sure when a bunch of sub EVP players have gotten carried to EVP and immediately crash the run by being bad.
IM GETTING PUNISHED FOR THEIR MISTAKES, NOT JUST MY OWN, THATS THE ISSUE. If we lose wave 1 and I have 75% of all the eggs and power eggs, then no, its not me.
@@MysteriousStranger50 Dude the matchmaking got much better in the transition- You only get matched with people with a max of 200 rank difference to you.
Work on self-improvement instead of getting annoyed that you lost
From my view, it sounds like you completely missed the point of the video, and i doubt you're an overfisher without proof.
Since you are being rude to people in multiple comments and call me with derogative terms. If you are failing on EVP 40 then no - you are not only not on Overfishing Level, you are very far from it and even perhaps EVP.
Stop being rude to others to highten your ego.
i stopped playing freelancee mainly because the matchmaking had a bad streak of giving me outright griefers, i play exclusively with friends where coordination can be guaranteed.
it got so bad that at one point, i deliberately dropped my rank in the menus to the first rank so i could at least clear ( by carrying lobbies i can win by myself)
The real issue is that there is no communication. I appreciate your resources and I'm exponentially a better player because of them. Yet, most players are not joining Discords or looking up video guides to improve themselves. Too frequently I see the same devastating mistakes being made that ruin my freelance matches. I’m not upset with losing, I’m upset I have no way knowing what to expect from my team beforehand, any legit means to communicate during gameplay, or a way to educate players afterwards. I believe SR is more complex than the core game, it’s a fun mode that has too much depth for a casual audience. With the busted ranking system and rewards I’ll never obtain; I’ve pretty much given up on SR. To silently suffer to MAYBE earn a cool banner by the time Splatoon 4 comes out is not worth my sanity. Despite this, thanks for continuing to make top notch content to help others.
This perfectly sums up all of my frustrations with Salmon Run
Totally agree with you felt like a leader system need to happen if there no communication. Where the leader can mark where we need to go
Lead boss in basket
Maw, steel head, Drizzer, steel eel, and Flipper
Boss that really needed be taking out Stinger, big shot and fly fish
Dont know how it would work feel like "This way" is not enough
I wish Salmon Run had replays to make it easier to review the mistakes made in a particular shift. I know I would like to use it since I need to work on my skills because I maybe able to hold my own in a team but I really struggle if I'm stuck in a scenario where I'm on my own. (Also I wish that we had some more vocal commands to make it easier to communicate with others in random matchmaking >_>)
They should add "lure this boss" so people know what you want to do with a specific boss you're facing with. They should also add "danger here" to signal flyfish, stinger, big shot or someone in danger.
My best investment was in a capture card. I had kind teammates with patience to explain me how Salmon Run works . Mostly (nearly everyday) I am on my own. As a player always using my favorite weapon, rotation was a very hard challenge. But watching my captures shows me how noobish I am at shifts 😂. I am far from a good player and need time to get familiar with maps and weapons but I can see how I am getting slowly better by frequently playing.
I make an effort to not blame teammates and just recognize bad luck instead. Sometimes the Grizz gods spawn 3 stingers and 2 flyfish and that's a struggle in any rank. Or you get a bunch of fish sticks and flip floppers on a rotation that has terrible paint. It just be like that sometimes 😔
Or 2+ chargers on a random rotation.
People who refuse to get better and argue that they don't wanna get better should stay out of high evp. If that's gate keeping then I'm sorry. Not everything is for everyone. People who do wanna learn, that's fine. Cmon in. Let's play.
I think the big thing that drives negativity is the nature of the game being team based, coupled with freelance not having very good communication options or communication practices. It's a game where you, individually, can do everything you are supposed to do, and still lose because it is impossible to do everything that needs to be done by yourself when your only options are 'this way' and 'booyah.'
Often times you can tell yourself, 'yeah, that was a pretty difficult wave, I can see how we would have trouble with that,' but when you fail waves while also spotting bad habits like unpopped specials, not calling for revives, ignoring threats and etc, and having top performance stats by a wide margin, it can feel like there isn't really anything else you could have done.
And I guess that's fine, but I agree totally about ranks needing to be longer. Being able to drop a full rank after a handful of bad games and having to crawl your way back stings more than it should.
I do wonder how differently all of this would look with voice chat. There may be new problems, but literally only being able to say three things ever seems to be at the core of some of this. I would pay an unreasonable amount of money for adding one more communication option: 1. "This Way/Help", 2. "Booyah", 3. "You can kill glowfly chums with your carbon roller".
While I am nowhere near the best player out there, I am usually the best in the job I am in. I usually get the most Golden Eggs, save the most people(this is the rarest for me) and die the least. In most cases I can blame my teammates as that’s why I usually fail. There are some in EVP who really shouldn’t be there.
However, there are a lot of times where the rotation is just straight up difficult and even bad. When that happens I usually don’t blame my teammates for that, I blame the stage and weapons we were given. I am not trying to be elitist here, this is just what my experience has been like. I myself have never gotten to EVP 999 as it’s way too much of time sink. My record is EVP 700.
Nobody is perfect at Salmon Run. There have been times I died the most and some of those deaths were easily avoidable. Sometimes people just have off days.
I’ve improved so much from watching this channel and definitely wouldn’t be in EVP without it! Taking that into account, I think a lot of lower level players just aren’t aware of the resources available to help them improve. It’s no wonder some salmon runners make so many mistakes, because they simply don’t have the knowledge to recognize and fix them! That said, I hope that as this channel grows so will the Salmon Run community!
Love all of your videos and thank you so much for everything you do. On this topic, I think there's one elephant in the room you didn't address: even if players "should" put up with these matchmaking experiences and carry teams in the way you describe, many are just going to stop playing Salmon Run instead. It is a game, it's supposed to be fun, and there's only so much people will put up with before moving on. There's a lesser version where people just play enough to get superbonuses and then bail out, or bail out at EVP 00 to keep rank.
It's within Nintendo's capacity to be more selective in matchingmaking, but they seem to be operating from the mindset that they'd rather match you with someone with a far different experience level than no one, then try to make up for it with hazard level using calculations that are opaque to us. Matchmaking is a huge problem in Turf War as well, but it's extra punishing here. It also doesn't help that when you rank down in SR, they really make a big deal of it. I assume they're not trying to make the player feel bad, but it plays that way. As much as i respect your take on all of this, people are within their rights to say they're not having fun the way things currently work in SR, and it's really on Nintendo fix it, not the community. That said, I complete agree shaming is never okay. Also, -20 for communication errors is objectively ludicrous.
Good points, but the bigger point he’s making is stop blaming freelance for your own lack of skill, instead find ways to adapt, and just have fun practicing that.. it is far from lucky to constantly do well in EVP freelance, not to mention undermines other players who have .. so kudos to haz for calling that out
and tbf you don’t have to always necessarily “carry” as there’s plenty of skilled freelancers..
It is a competitive game mode for crying out loud.. climbing and ranking up would hold little merit or be memorable if it wasn’t challenging..
it really adds to the frustration when disconnects are punished by the ranking system ... there have been times when i would have ranked up if not for the point deficit from getting disconnected , got new teammates, and then ranked down from a rank i wouldn't have even been in anymore 😅
There are two things that I did that made me markedly better at Salmon Run.
1: Trust my teammates. There isn't a single weapon that is perfect for every situation. You have to know your weapons limits and trust your team to have your back and make up for your weaknesses. The moment that I stopped trying to focus on my teammates actions, I was able to focus on improving my own gameplay.
2: Trust myself. I had gotten in a habit of attributing my successes to my teammates. And while we win or lose as a team, and everyone's contribution matters, I was always saying to myself "Wow, those are really good players", feeling like it was solely due to the other 3 players that we won. Once I stopped seeing myself as a detriment and started seeing myself as a contributor to the teams success, my gameplay improved dramatically.
The most frustrating thing is how easy it is to quickly derank after a few bad games + no checkpoints in EVP. Also I think the hazard level is averaged out across your teammates right? Had multiple easy wins at hazard 140 then a new player swapped in and the hazard level went up to 167?? We weren’t ready and wiped almost instantly. Seems like the difficulty curve is too steep to feel fun for casual players. Especially if you can only play 2hours or less per rotation and your progress has reset next time you log in.
@@a-j-o-l-o-t-3 yeah I’ll probably never get that high. Are you saying I shouldn’t be able to enjoy the game at the difficulty level that’s comfortable to me? 😂
@@a-j-o-l-o-t-3 we wiped because as a team we were not all at that level. I’ve beaten horroborous at hazard 170 before but who knows, maybe I got hard carried. It’s really ironic you are criticizing me for finding the game challenging at low level on a video about not being toxic 🤷🏻♀️
I remember back in Splatoon 2, where everyone on Profreshional rank was mixed together. I had it a few times where I reached Profreshional 999 without playing Hazard Level MAX at all. And if I played it, it was kinda like: the lower the hazard level is for your rank, the more likely is it to lose. Because you will be carried on Hazard Level MAX, while you have to carry on, for example, Hazard Level 120% when you have Profreshional 700.
Its hard to stop blaming your teammates when they are 0/7 and are repeating rookie mistakes in EVP (i.e Prolonging fights on the shores, mismatching weapons and enemies. etc) and at a certain point (usually EVP 200) you need everyone on-board or you will get overwhelmed by enemies or quota, so carrying is not feasible.
Without further ranks or proper matchmaking, you have to rely on a coordinated team or at least a group that stays consistent.
Thank you for being sane enough to make this video and call it out, I've constantly dealt with it in the salmon run server and it's gotten annoying. I had a friend who was horrible to play with because all she did was complain about freelancers and pitted everything on them instead of figuring out how she could have played better, so you pointing out this problem validates a lot of my frustration with em so thank you very much Hazmy and keep up the great work B)
I think something to definitely keep in mind when getting frustrated with teammates not performing well on paper is that the matchmaking is also not the greatest. There could be a sizeable difference in rank/level even if you get matched together. I think people in lower EVP can even get matched with profreshionals last time I checked. In those cases, it's pretty unfair to blame the players for trying their best to challenge their own boundaries while others have unrealistic expectations of them. Hoping some changes could be made to salmon ranking and matchmaking so that the overall experience could be smoother for everyone.
I think this is a huge factor. Presumably, in many cases, neither the higher *or* lower ranked players actually wanted to be matched with each other.
You're right. I should blame YOU instead
I feel that you shouldn't lose points, especially when someone disconnects from the game. I wish if someone disconnected from a game, someone would be able to jump in to fill that spot. This is the only problem I have with Salmon Run personally
While I do believe that there's a level of issue with freelance when it comes to cooperating with players (my ability to carry my team shouldn't necessarily be a reflection of my overall ability and there are some players that just haven't learned specific optimal strategies), I do think the general thesis of this video is true.
I've gotten into the habit of focusing on checking not only my power egg stats but also using the app between each match to see how many bosses I've killed and I've noticed it's helped me understand that I really could have done more for my teammates.
I think a lot of the "freelancers all suck!" mentality would be somewhat alleviated if we had easier access to these stats right in-game, or if just a basic "number of bosses killed" stat was included in the final results of every game.
Despite feeling more on the casual side, but loving the challenge of Salmon Run, there's still a lot to agree on here.
When I do solo Freelance, I've been locked to +2 or +3 fairly often, and there are times where +3 is still too much for me to handle consistently, and I'm one to place more blame on myself for screwing up instead of who I'm working with (which I think is slightly more healthy than getting tilted at others). I definitely agree that the ranks are a tad too short for how intense it can ramp up to at those higher ranks.
In addition, I often play with a friend who is relatively new to Splatoon and Salmon Run, and he sometimes struggles with weapon roles and lone-wolfing into the hordes. I often self-demote to +1 to help him out, and even though we chat in Discord and may play well enough together, it's not a guarantee that who we match with will synergize with that playstyle or will make some more beginner mistakes (since some beginners can still easily make it to +1 in the current in-game ranks without being fully ready to take on that extra challenge).
It just takes a few games to find the team that clicks with your play-style. Usually once I get above EVP 200, I notice that freelance gets less “frustrating” lol
I play exclusively Freelance in Salmon Run because none of my friends play, and I admit I'm guilty of yelling at my TV when I feel teammates seem to be failing. Nobody but me ever hears it though, and just by watching some of your videos I've improved my average ranking from Profeshional +2 to EVP in the last couple weeks. I'm trying to adopt a healthier attitude like you suggest and use what prompts I have to encourage better gameplay in the community -- just since I've started playing on EVP I've noticed people who do luring and those who don't as well as people who know where to position on Glowfly and Griller waves, and I've tried to reinforce all of it where I can.
I think loser's penalty is definitely one of the major reason why this problem exist. It is so very easy to get sucked into a downward spiral going from Eggsecutive all the way down to Profreshional 1, because if you derank, you get to 40 points of rank, and that's really just 3 losing game to get you down to another rank. The only time you get rank points is if you clear all three waves, and that's capped at 20, not even a bonus if you cleared the King Salmonoid, whereas you lose points on two occassion, one if you fail at wave 1 which gets -20 (essentially undoing your hard earned victory points within the span of a minute), or if you fail at wave 2 you get -10. It makes climbing up feels like a slog because you need to be doing things perfectly, or else you might either waste your time getting 0 points, or ended up losing progress.
It's the same with any other rank games where point gains are skewed towards losing. It always feels worse if you feel like you lose more by losing the game than you gain by winning (LoL does this too, with the loser penalty being -25 ish while winning only gains you +17 ish). Personally I'd put it so that if you lose at wave 1 you get -10, if you lose at wave 2 you get nothing, if you lose at wave 3 you get +10, clearing gets +20, killing Salmonoid gets you extra +10, but also to double the rank gauge so that it's 200 or so to offset people climbing out of their rank too fast.
Also make it so that if you derank, you don't go to 40 point, but instead just to the amount you lost (so 180 if you lost at 0), and same goes to ranking up. This would incentivize people to clear their head and try again instead of just stopping completely. I'm guilty of this too, if I get to 10 or 0, I'd just stop playing Salmon Run altogether, because I don't feel like risking derank just to get through the slog again.
My gripe with salmon run is that to get to higher hazard levels is to play a gauntlet in each rotation otherwise your rank resets with the next rotation
This is what I've been saying! Then common denominator is you. If you're losing all your jobs or pvp... It might be that you personally have things you need to work on
I can already tell when a group of randoms think I'm an idiot so I leave after we fail. Its easy to look at the egg counts at the end and simply blame the guy with the least but its not that simple.
One problem I've caught myself doing is when I try to stop myself from blaming the team, and I instead lay the blame solely on myself.
Honestly, I prefer freelance over pools now, pools just lead to people in lower ranks joining people in EVP and bringing the whole team down with them...
As much as I like the idea of pools, the execution doesn't make sense. If somebody joins under rank, the best possible outcome for the higher ranked person to stay at the same place. They can rank down, but not up.
Haz, your information and mindset is so helpful with Salmon Run. I wish I could send a link to your videos to all the freelancers that are struggling with both skill and mental state due to frustration in Salmon Run.
Important wisdom like painting walls and not shore rushing has made my games better, I wish freelancers as a whole put all the great tips I have received from your videos into practice, for their own sanity and for freelancing as a whole:
I have been stuck at pro +1-3 and just want to hit evp! I must say you really helped open my eyes, I was getting so tired of SR but I don't NEED to rank up, I NEED to have fun. ❤
Yes, don't stress about that Rank but play the way you enjoy and if you decide to try EVP, you can try to train for it!
Get experience with weapons, paint walls, spam “This Way” when it’s GRILLER or Glowflies round to round up the team together.
And DEAL WITH FISH STICKS OR THEY WILL SCREW YOUR ROUND
I already came to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the ranking system, but my solution was a bit different. The idea I came up with is there are a few more ranks, but at the end of each one there is a test to see if you understand how the game works. I don't know if anyone else would agree, but that is my take
I like that idea personally too, have similar rank-up game ideas!
this is an excellent analysis, and is actually super encouraging to me as someone who plays freelance almost exclusively. thank you haz!
Couldn't have said it better myself. I believe most anyone can reach EVP if they put in the effort. EVP just feels like a second ladder within the ladder. Everything up until EVP feels like a tutorial preparing you for EVP. "Bad" players exist in all ranks, but they're not the majority. I definitely think it's fair to blame others in some situations, but if you're constantly blaming others and finding yourself hard stuck in a rank, then I believe that just means you still have room for improvement. And there's no shame in that! Keep playing, keep learning, and utilize resources like Hazmy's videos and anyone can get there.
My problem is that no one knows about the tips and tricks in order to get Golden Eggs easier. Such as bringing the Goldies to the basket in case they drop 10, but of course, no one does even when I signal them.
What Salmon Run needs are performance grades. Individual scores based on the following:
Power Eggs collected
Golden Eggs delivered
Bosses defeated
Crewmates you revived
Times you get splatted
After each shift, you'll get a letter grade based on your overall performance, then, you'll be matched up with players with a similar grade.
Probably not a good idea considering the inconsistencies of weapons and waves / shifts.
You can carry a team and not have the best grades or you can actually boost those stats without being a good player
@@HDHaZmY Well that's just it, it doesn't assign the same grade to every player, just you.
Your points are excellent. Thank you for making this video. You have a lot of credibility with the community, so people will be more likely to listen to you. I don't abandon my team when we lose, and it's mildly discouraging when I'm left alone after a loss. I want to get better and enjoy the experience. People should be able to do both. I am looking forward to the new event that's coming up soon.
Thank you for these thoughts, Haz. They really speak to me. Your intelligence and compassion shine through.
I loved SR for a long time but recently have stopped playing because I was frustrated at what I was blaming on the difficulty of some rotations and freelance. But I know I was actually caught up with the pursuit of rank. I felt shamed by my mediocre rank. I knew I needed to focus on my own skills to improve (hence I enjoy your guides & watching your gameplay). But my disillusionment at not progressing through ranks as fast as I expected made me lose focus on skills, blame others and eventually give up altogether.
(I realised today that I would be happily focused on improving my own skill if working through the single player campaign or even if learning a new weapon in turf war.)
Today, this has encouraged me to return to SR. I know the kind of hazard level that suits me, at the moment, and pledge to let that be my guide. I have new hope at being able to focus on my skills again. I have picked up a lot from your guides… I just forget most in the chaos of the wave - but that’s for me to work on.
Thank you again. You’re a great community leader.
Needed this for ranked modes in general. Thanks.
Hazmy, you're a gem. Never stop being such a great part of the fandom ❤
Wrong mindsets are definitely a huge problem in games like this and also how short the ranks are, but I think there's another problem with ranks. It's how you lose and gain points. You get 20p for winning, lose 10p for failing at wave 2, lose 20p for failing at wave 1 and keep your current points when failing at wave 3. It's how strict the system is. You gain and lose a fixed amount of points and I think that's a huge problem. Maybe the game could make it so that significantly exceeding your quota rewards you with more rank-points. Maybe you could even gain like 5 or 10 additional rank-points for clearing the Xtrawave. Maybe the game could also take into account how "hard" the waves were you had to deal with.
I am by no means an expert and maybe all of what I just said is complete bogus but I'm open for critique and other suggestions.
No you are right, Ranks need to be longer as you can lose or gain a rank with just 2-3 games. That is not enough time for any system to truly determine whether you are capable of that rank or not. Especially in a Team Game.
Ranks should be significantly longer and perhaps even include checkpoints for them so people can slowly climb up!
I'd also argue the leniency it offers for losses when dealing with dq's isn't enough considering how much of a deficit a DQ puts you compared to the lowered quota.
Might I also add even if you don't agree with what Hazmy is saying in regards to Freelance shaming, do realize that Freelance shaming is a waste of your time and energy. If you don't want to look at it from a perspective of how a community benefits from the avoidance of Freelance shaming, look at it for your own benefit (at least).
You literally gain nothing from Freelance shaming other than a potential (and temporary) ego boost that, at the end of the day, doesn't really help you improve.
This reminds me of a sticker I saw regarding learner drivers. I can't remember the exact quote but it went something like this; "please be patient with me, you were a learner too".
I still remember when I was a learner driver which is why I hang back whenever I see the red L (the learner plate here for most of the UK) or a green P/D plate as that tells me they just passed but are still very much new to driving.
What I remember most, is when a teammate and I really helped each other out. Getting a stinger at the far end of the map and backing each other up to get out of there alive. Saying Booya on the way back! Or getting on a ledge to either back up or create a way out for a team mate that's being overwhelmed by a crowd.
I've had that one night while trying to rank up, during which I saw some absolutely horrible plays. It was so frustrating to keep losing while I was playing well, it really felt like everyone was was either in the wrong rank or having a sheit day. But, in the end, even if that was the case it means that I wasn't strong enough to compensate for their mistakes- or my own flaws might have been the final drop that made the team wipe. So I demoted.
I can't say I'm proud of my rank, but there seems to be a hurdle there and I don't want to ruin my own fun by dragging through it. I'd much rather dance with the team while waiting for the match to start than start a list in my head of who dropped the ball last round.
I definitely enjoy seeing a lot of salmon run chatter compared to S2, and watching these videos has made me think much more about it and get better. I almost exclusively play Freelance but have met a lot of great players over the years, having these guides is huge to make the mode mainstream!
Honestly, if I'm constantly the last one alive and I spend more time reviving my team mates than I get to splat bosses, then yes, I blame my team mates 😆I've literally had loads of games where I've saved 12-15 lives and I myself only died once or not at all. And I'm constantly taking out Stingers and Flyfish asap to try and protect my team but they just keep dying anyway. Meanwhile I'm dodging 2-3 Stingers at once and no one bothers to take them out because why would you if they aren't bothering you, right?
And the best part is, it's usually when *I* get the worst weapon (like a Splatling that has to charge for 10 minutes before it can do anything) then somehow *everyone else* keeps dying even though they have the good weapons. It's pretty much tradition at this point.
So yes, I occasionally call my team mate idiots, but only out loud irl and with no voice chat, it's not like anyone can hear. 😆 And it's not meant in a mad/toxic way, either. It's more kind of funny to me.
My record is EVP+330 but I know I'll never reach 999.
Not because of bad team mates but simply because ~36 hours or so before you get reset all the way back to EVP+40 is just FAR too little time.
So I usually just demote myself to Profreshional +2 all the time, because it's a very relaxed level of "chaos" where it's very easy to meet the egg quota and still have plenty of time left over to save your team mates' lives every 10 seconds 🤣 while I splat every boss I can to work towards golden badges.
lmao sounds about right, although I will say if you can hold out a little longer it can get a little better with teammates after the 400 line.. there’s not as much of teammates mindlessly ignoring main threats, etc.
@@kikilaker6698 Haha that sounds great, it's just so unfortunate that it resets so often :c I don't always have the time to climb back up, especially with team mates you can't communicate with it can be pretty difficult. But I'm more in it for the badges, which thankfully you can earn at any rank, haha ~
Whenever i feel like my teammates are shit, i just check boss kills and power eggs on the mobile app and then realize I'm the one who's shit lmao
Good points but as with anything with games of this nature. Extremely circumstantial.
I've had runs (extremely rare) that I just rank up to 600 no issues at all, in fact I don't even see many bosses around xD but then I get this:
1. Runners on Low Tie, cohocks wave with a charger (or any super slow DPS weapon) that instead of using the cannons, goes straight to kill them with the charger trying to get eggs. Or no one uses the cannon and its to late to change your mind about it.
2. Last ditch effort Runners, the ones who with only 10 seconds left start throwing their specials, yeah... 30 seconds ago that would have been extremely helpful, not now.
3. Special celebration thrower Runner, the one that after such a struggle to past by... throws the special as in celebrating... yeah would've helped you throwing that wave breaker when there were 100 minions running amok at basket.
4. Runners that simply ignore Lasers, Drizzlers, Steel Heads, Steel Eels, Fly Fish. These 5 have so much map control... just leaving one be is counter to your survival.
5. No general knowledge or know - how to deal with threats.
And I understand the vast majority of the playerbase is extremely casual and just want to have a good time, do their super bonus, and be on their way. But it would make things a lot easier if at least some awareness is used when playing Salmon Run. As you say, it is a team based game.
Yeah, we all make mistakes, but it's also incredibly frustrating feeling you're the one pulling the weight for 4 people.
I'm glad that you feel that 95% of your play sessions end up being a positive. To me, it's 50%.
Of course, I've improved my patience and simply log out if I'm about to derank or lost a few runs in a row, ain't worth getting angry/salty/frustrated anymore, another run will happen.
I agree, I struggle keeping my professional +1 as I keep going down to the lower ranks, I now only play to get the main rewards before stopping to play turf wars but your videos are super helpful
I do want to mention this regarding the "everyone can achieve vp 999" bit,
I really love Salmon Run, but I also have carpal tunnel syndrome. After prolonged play, my wrists and hands ache horribly, and that--as well as time--keeps me from the tantalizing, glittering gold badges I want. If there were more time to achieve vp 999 and it didn't reset to 40 every 40 hours, it would be feasible even for me to reach top rank with some dedication. As it stands now, if I try, I'm only hurting myself. I think that's a serious issue that Salmon Run has, and as much as I love it, I hope it changes for the better.
I agree, but I still believe you can do it - but it's even more unhealthy to you than to us!
Great video as usual Haz!!
Sup Rachel ❤
@@Doceli-dg3cn doccccc ✨🫶🏻
If you're in lower ranks it's more difficult to get good teammates since most don't know what they're doing. Very detrimental in Bug Run as it's hard to get trophies for 10% plus, making the mode very discouraging to play
There's a lot of RNG involved compared to other games:
Stage
stage type/condition
Teammates
Weapon loadouts
At least in other games you can choose at least 2-3 of the 4
Yes you can "carry" but it proves more difficult in lower ranks and very time consuming due to RNG
the stage itself is not random, only tides/wave type are, and the randomized weapons are restricted to 4 that you have a whole practice room to test out beforehand.
Yes lower ranks have less skilled teammates but if you know what you're doing and how to assist other players properly you can carry your team way more than you realize, with skills that'll be impossible to play higher evp without. (and I'm saying this as someone who's had to fight to return to EVO more than once lol)
Also Big Run's competitive reward isn't really a salmon run issue itself as its a variant mode but I do agree that it's kinda antithetical to the overall teamwork oriented gameplay that the mode otherwise promotes
I just started playing Splatoon and i love Salmon Run. I think its a lot of fun. I would highly agree that the ranks should be longer. I won a few sets and then suddenly the difficulty rose quite drastically before i could really improve at the rank i was previously at. Just because i was part of a TEAM that won a few sets doesnt mean i or each individual was ready for more difficulty. I still enjoy it so i just see this as an obvious sign that i need to keep improving. Wonderful content btw!
Ok, I’m gonna be completely honest here, just- hear me out for a sec.
I get it. Don’t always blame teammates. I know for a fact there is almost always something i could have done SOMEWHERE in a shift. However. Hearing people say “Stop blaming teammates, look at yourself instead!” Is getting annoying, as someone who does look at what theyve done in a shift and critically analyzes their own moves constantly, almost too much sometimes. Sometimes, youve done what you can, but your teammates just arent doing what works, like Wall clinging on glowflies while you over at the chokepoint, balancing splatting the horde while trying to urge your teammates over to the chokepoint (i know, specific example, but its just an example). Sometimes, you could not have done anything to “Carry the Team” or anything like that, and it really boils down to your teammates not catching up to the fact that Apprentice Strategies DONT WORK in EVP. Should we always blame teammates? No, absolutely not. But should we always pin it on ourselves, simply determining that we always have to do better, always looking for imperfections in how we play and never letting blame fall on those same teammates? *No.* Sometimes, blaming the teammates, be it one of them or all of them, is justified. Thank you for your time.
I love Salmon run but when you have a teammate that was looking at 20 plus eggs just sitting on top of one of the boss towers. And not helping. I was like dude is throwing the game
I think just making ranks longer to 200-300 points (like you said) and splitting up EVP (so EVP 50 don’t match with EVP 900 at the start of the next rotation) would make such a huge difference. I think people will blame their teammates less when the ranks more accurately bucket skill level
Adding more checkpoints into EVP will just push profresh hell farther up to where the highest checkpoint is. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a good thing
@@saycap (i could be misunderstanding what you’re saying, but if I’m understanding correctly) that would only happen if people in profreshional hell could win enough to make it to the higher point
@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate everyone has a natural skill ceiling, so checkpoint let people who would otherwise not consistently carry enough to reach a number float on top of the checkpoint, which causes the immediate drop in match quality past EVP and the warzone that is 100-200. Less people because of the skill hierarchy, but it’s just a matter of ratios to where it would still be quite noticeable.
@@saycap except to even get to that high evp checkpoint in the first place you have to get a lot of skill, meaning that even if you aren't the best player you still probably are a very skilled player and your team is probably super skilled too.
"profreshional hell" is a lot closer to where beginning players and casual players sit so they won't end up in those high evp ranks unless they have godlike luck and get perfect carry teams lol
I've been keeping tuned in for a bunch of Hazmy's resources, and I have to agree, Salmon Run's ranks aren't about having the perfect team or shift, but it's more about the journey to the destination in this case. I remember working with friends and even freelance lobbies, and even broke through to EVP despite getting demoted and stuck in profresh' for a good while. Sure, my friends and I got challenged and struggled with higher difficulty, but we learned to overcome it, run after run
So I'm going to agree with Hazmy when I say : It's more than possible to learn your way to EVP, even if you might have unfortunate runs or difficult shifts, otherwise, shoutouts to Hazmy for making great resources for salmon run!
I recently joined your discord and I've gotten so much better at the game with talking to more EVPS like yourself that I'm 2 promotions away from become one myself
its so annoying when you lose 20 pts because of a single loss (that sometimes isnt even your fault)
i think teammates are at least somewhat to blame
im around the upper profreshional levels and i lost on wave 1 because my teammates refused to get the mothership off our egg basket
thats some go-getter behavior right there
I got to 999 like two days ago and I can say for sure that it's a mixture. it was on random rotation so sometimes I recognised losses were the fault of good players forced into bad comps, or unfortunate boss spawns, but sometimes it really was just straight-up incompetence. it's not always your teammates' fault but it very well can be
Random rotations sadly don't have stable weapon compositions so I wouldn't judge based on that! Normal rotations fortunately allow easier games for experienced players.
@@HDHaZmY definitely. It was super hit and miss whether we would get a reliable comp, enough grizzco weapons to carry us or just three hydra and a goo tuber.
I fully agree with the ranks being way too short! When I just got Splatoon 3 and started doing Salmon Run I noticed that I somehow already made my way into Pro +1 in what felt like just a few matches, and I didn't knew I could derank manually at the time yet either... My 1st response was "Why the heck am I up here already? These waves aren't fun, just let me get back down already!"... You hardly get any time to get used to the new difficulty scaling, and it makes it feel really punishing when you keep losing matches in a row cause the game throws you at something you're not ready for yet... I finally managed to get comfy at Pro +3 at this point, but I can still see that many team mates I get are still struggling to even stay alive for more than 10 seconds, and I can't even blame them for it seeing how easy you can get pulled up by a few lucky rounds only to get overwhelmed in the new higher rank... And unfortunately most players in that situation won't even considder deranking manually out of "social status"...
You mentioned VOD reviews. One thing that would be particularly useful, since not all of us have capture setup (though not as good as a VOD review) is a replay system in Salmon.
Had a wave today I'd love to be able to review. Just so that I can review what I missed that if I'd have spotted would have meant it didn't snowball to a point I needed to pop special, splat a couple of salmonid and revive a couple of teammates all at once.
Hi! Thank you for opening this discussion, I was looking forward to something like this, because the question of skill, rank and matchmaking woes was on my mind recently.
While I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying, I think it might be important to put some focus onto why one might feel disenfranchised by matchmaking. It's very hard to take to heart good and well-meaning advice when you're feeling wronged, so I think it's worth the time to dissect the source of this feeling. The following is actually a result of my own soul-searching on the subject.
I believe that matchmaking/ranking dissatisfaction comes down to our A) Desires and B) Expectations of the game.
A) What would be the desire of a SR player , based on what people tend to describe as satisfactory gaming sessions?
Well, to have FUN. In particular, one might point out:
1) Win at least close to 50% of matches
2) Have some close calls/formidable-looking waves of opponents to keep things interesting.
3) Get out of those sticky situations often enough to feel good and get desired win ratio.
4) Feel that they made significant contribution to team success (eggs/bosses/revives)
5) Feel that their peers did not put all the work on them, while flailing about in chaos themselves.
B) For that, an SR player might expect to be SUPPORTED by the game, meaning:
1) Feeling comfortable, confident and adequate playing in the rank they achieved.
2) Getting a challenge boost that's noticeable enough to make things seem fun, but is easy enough to overcome through luck or stubborn repetition of same things for 2-3 times.
3) Learning/improving at game without putting much thought into it, by just acquiring experience naturally, because we often play to relax, not to put in effort.
4) Getting teammates who also feel comfortable with current challenge and can help save the player who makes a mistake.
If you look at the process this way, you may feel quite justified in feeling dissatisfied about how ranking and matchmaking works.
What is important to understand, though, is that Splatoon has a different ranking mentality, it also goes for PvP, but is especially true for SR:
Your rank is NOT evaluation of your skill level and challenges you can take on confidently.
Your rank is evaluation of amount of adversity that confidently takes on you!
Same goes for your teammates most of the time, they're just as challenged as you, unless you get lucky or get paired with someone of higher rank who can carry you on occasion.
Simply put, your rank is your next challenge, not your comfort zone. And that situation, I believe, doesn't feel right for many.
The game expects you to get fun out of hitting a challenge, doing analysis, grinding for skill and overcoming it, while players expect to get fun from comfortable, well-adjusted gameplay.
All that said, I couldn't possibly agree more with your call to ignore rank as measure of one's success. But I would also add to that an advice to look for rank that works for you to have fun from playing - because that, we presume, is the main goal.
It well may be that the rank one will have fun playing at is one or two steps below one's current achieved level.
And there is absolutely no shame in that fact, and it would be nice if the community at large could respect that.
Thank you.
P.S. In an ideal world, I would love for Nintendo to make this approach clear and give players a choice, like do you want to:
A) Play at your current comfort level to get some in-game currency and rewards to satisfy you cravings for stuff today.
OR
B) Get into hot mess of challenging gameplay for a fleeting chance of higher rewards and bragging rights.
also i know i’ve already made 2 comments here but i’d just like to shout-out the couple of people in the map whose posts are consistently well-illustrated little salmon-run tips or mini-guides (they’re usually hanging outside of the grizzco building, funnily enough). it’s very sweet to see stuff like “you can use a Big Shot cannon before splatting it!” or rotation-specific tips like “use the explosher on Mudmouths!”
I'm not one for big discord due to social issues, but I do appreciate the Salmon Run guides. Despite constantly hovering between 40-300 in EVP I didn't know how a lot of weapons functioned in salmon run.
It's nice to know things like "This weapon should focus on bosses." "This for painting" "this for clearing lessers." It has greatly improved my game play and the game play of some of my friends I play with here and there during salmon run when I explain what their weapon should probably focus on.
Ight, so, when I play SR, I’m stuck in profreshional and have some trouble with matchmaking, like players who immediately rush in and get overwhelmed, but I have video evidence of an actual bad player, who was the last one, had an Eel coming, and past all three teammates who he could’ve helped with a bomb.
Humbling, incredibly humbling thank you!
I find the problem with salmon run is if you don’t have time to do the newest job when it starts the experienced players will have already gotten into a higher placing so your left with people who are learning that difficulty. But if I usually play when the next rotation startes I have a better chance to find better teammates but not all the time, I would say the issue with the ranking is when the next rotation starts everyone placed in eggxecutive from 0-999 at the start are put in the same pool of players at the start of a rotation. For experienced players in groups it’s not that bad but for freelancers it’s a toss up of what you get especially if your playing the game solo. The are variables such as harder weapon sets and lag, to name a few but I believe just the addition of 1 more check point would help give players a better understanding of there skill set.
EVP needs more ranks as I said in the video - we need checkpoints back at least!
I always blame myself for myself if I lost games. Thou I am improving more and more thanks to those techniques from you and others. Also there is going to be three rotation of horoboroses in a row. Good video of this one.
Definitely agree with a lot of the points you made in the video, and the ranking system definitely needs sum updating imo. The hazard level that’s best for you is where you win around 50% of the time, but even if you have this it can still be easy to win 3 matches in a row and go to the next rank when you might not be prepared for it yet. Being in EVP too it can get annoying to have to play so much just to get the the hazard level that’s best for you. When I have a lot of work to focus on during a rotation, I don’t want to spend the rest of my free time grinding just to get to my preferred difficulty. SR is still my favorite mode by far but I like to think at the end of S3’s lifespan there will be updates to help people get to/stay at their challenging hazard level to help make casual play more enjoyable
Ok but what if you keep getting ppl that suck? Im killing bosses and throwing eggs towards basket but no one else is putting eggs in the basket - or trying to lure moving bosses towards the basket
Yeah, I was noticing the shortness of ranks when I had to keep demoting myself to stay at profreshional 2. It really sucks when I get a team I was really compatible and synergized well with, because you have to exit out of the matchmaking menu to rank down
This is a very good video, and to a certain degree I have had similar thought processes at times related to blaming my teammates without looking at myself.
Although, I still hold that EVP needs a better ranking system as well. The only times I get good EVP matches that let me climb back to my level (around 200-300) is when I start playing a rotation early and I get good players with me, ones who also had their EVP rank reset. If I start it late, I still seem to notice there's a good chance I'll get people whose rank ceiling is in fact around 40-60 while the players around my skill level probably already climbed back up, so I end up getting matches where climbing that rotation is harder than it should be. The reset system at EVP does leave a lot to be desired because of that, and I even feel that the reset doesn't allow me to get used to higher hazard levels in order to train my way to eventually play and even beat HLM, which sucks. Not sure if I'm wrong on this or not though.
**Heavy Misinformation Warning in some comments below!**
Hazmy's Community discord : discord.gg/hdhazmy
Salmon Run Server : discord.gg/salmonrun
Grizzcord : discord.gg/grizzcord
I started the game staying around Overachiever to Profresh3 by choice, and I can tell you that these ranks are near UNPLAYABLE due to bad teammates, allow me to explain. Out of around 10 matches, you will encounter bad players in about 8 of them. No luring, forgetting your specials, using specials too early, ignoring the important bosses, not reviving players, and the most common, players unable to survive most of the time. Also, with all the complaining about teammates in VP, this turns off players in these ranks, as it gives the impression that its worse there. This impression was why I stayed away from VP, because I didn't want to bother if I was gonna be encountering bad teammates as common as I was around Overachiever to Profresh3. But recently, I graduated into VP, and after spending about 6 or 7 rotations in it, I learned something. VP, is much much MUCH EASIER then Overachiever to Profresh3, the reason why being, you encounter better players much more commonly. This time out of 10 matches, I only had bad players like twice. And there is also something BIG that I never see you talk about, the spawning cap. I suggest you make a video explaining the spawning cap, how stuff stops spawning in at a certain time, and how that's why people should not play the game while thinking the spawning is infinite. Know why? Well its simple, because like 95% of players in the lower ranks, DO think spawning is infinite, so there's NO POINT in killing stuff since it will just get replaced anyways. THAT is their mindset, and until they are educated about the spawning limit on the timer, they won't know that. The biggest key to salmon run that I have learned in general is, when you know there is a spawning limit, then you know how important killing bosses is, then you realize that, so long as you keep it going, you will always, ALWAYS have the time to collect the eggs. In the lower ranks, players think the opposite, they focus on eggs entirely, they give up on bosses, after all, "why kill bosses if they spawn infinitely?" that is what they think.
So to summarize, bad teammates make up the MAJORITY of the lower ranks, and only players that know that stuff stops spawning in at a certain time, make up the good teammates, and the MAJORITY of them are in mid VIP and higher.
Of course an EVP player will be better than a Profreshional +3 player, what are we expecting here - that's the point of a Ranking System.
If you fall back to Profreshional from EVP and you blame your losses on your team, then you are supposed to be THAT GOOD PLAYER you just mentioned in your post, not someone else - stop expecting others to do better than they are instead of you playing accordingly to the rank you want to reach.
Now that you are in EVP,
I understand that teammates aren't everything, but in evp+ its a very optimal strategy to always leave lobbies with trash teammates (poor scoreboard *, lots of deaths, bad special use, blatant mistakes**) and always stay in lobbies with decent teammates, no matter if you win or lose.
When everyones matchmaking resets, daily you get into lobbies mixing evp 2-300 players with evp999 players with barley scraped out of +3 on yesterday's gone fission rotation players. Its best to try and optimize who you get.
*Scoreboard is less accurate if night waves spawn, those tend to drive extreme differences in golden eggs and power eggs based on who gets what weapon and when)
**by mistake i mean wasting a special, not luring an easily lurable boss, not grabbing a nearby egg while waiting to be revived, fighting a boss that your weapon sucks at fighting like charger vs fish stick, or waiting to be revived and mashing "help" inside a lid forcefield. Just insanely brainrotted stuff like that. Yes i have seen all of this stuff in this week's rotations alone, get outta there. You are just gonna wrap on wave 2 and get tilted.
Just saying just bc your in vp doesn't make you the best player ever so please dont start playing super aggressive with a you know SUPPORT WEPON
I have the opposite problem than your video says, to be honest. I enjoy Salmon Run, but I blame every failure (Like, literally EVERY failure) on myself, to the point where I'm so mad at myself that it's not even fun after a certain point. What's the balance? I know what you said, but if a player that's in their correct rank should be able to win 95%of games even with subpar teammates, then I'm apparently not in my right rank even though I can pretty regularly hit evp 300-400. I'm so hard on myself, and I don't know what the good in-between spot is. What should I do? THere was even a wave where I lost a goldie seeking round. GOLDIE SEEKING! I just gave up and didn't even play for like 2 days. I have no idea how I screwed that up, but there was no way that I hadn't been part of the reason we failed. What is the balance? Every content creator always says "Don't blame your teammates", nobody ever says what to do if you're in the polar opposite of that situation an basically beating yourself up over every fail and blaming yourself as the sole cause of it. I know that's not what you meant in the video, so what is the balance?
Having played SR routinely since launch and nearly 800 hours in Splatoon 2's lifespan, I am sick of the current ranking system and agree 100% that it needs revamping. Whether that's giving high EVP more checkmarks, or linking ranks to different maps, or the devs being willing to modify their system (lol), I desperately want to see change. Grinding to climb rank isn't a great use of my free time, I would much rather remain at the hazard levels I have the most fun with! It seems the ranks being reset to EVP 40 is where I notice the most player conflict, what with players of different ranks being grouped together and clashing in playstyles.
All that being said, I'm gonna be real: I understand the freelance frustration. I do find a lot of lovely people in freelance, and I enjoy the challenge of adapting to randoms' playstyles to help make waves go smoothly. But there are times where I do get really frustrated with some freelancers and it IS easy to blame them for shifts going south. It's difficult playing with teammates who have zero regard for their own safety or ignore high-priority targets. If all these freelancers are contributing to the match is wasting time in their life-ring, remaining on the shore instead of luring, or stubbornly insisting on wall-hugging during glowflies, it gets tiring and at times the mess on the map is too overwhelming to carry with a few competent players. I'm also frustrated with how little I get to encounter King Salmonids in freelance. People love to dip out of lobbies when one wave is failed, instead of toughing it out and trying to cooperate with their current team. Last rotation I cleared a total of 15 shifts before encountering Horrorboros, all because people kept hopping in and out with different levels of King Salmonid meter. Finding a dedicated group to play with is a much more sustainable way to encounter King Salmonids, but it would be nice to encounter them more if freelance teammates were more willing to stick around.
I know these are issues that come with a multiplayer game with a rewards system, and these problems don't simply disappear over time. I get the freelance woes, but I agree it doesn't help anyone to be overly negative. I can get blaming freelancers at times, but constantly shoving that responsibility onto your teammates is a dangerous habit to fall into. It can help to look at things more optimistically or give benefit of the doubt when a wave is failed. The best example for me is, "That player could just be having a rough time today. I know I've had my off-days before and played poorly." We don't have control over how others play the game, but my hope is that over time we can slowly change the atmosphere in the Salmon Run community to a more positive one.
Just making sure, I'm still allowed to get frustrated when my teammate in Profreshional 3 jumps into a Griller and then spams Help!, right?
I was in EVP until I was kicked out partially due to a bad rotation and bad teammates. Which is just frustrating. I think making ranks longer is a good idea, also they should decrease the amount of points lost for a defeat (going from 20 to 5). I think this would make Salmon Run a much more enjoyable experience without the constant stress and frustration of having 2 fly fish and 3 stingers constantly spraying at you.
One thing you forgot to point out is that not everyone has the time to spend hours upon hours grinding to EVP 999, not everybody can make it there, even if they have the skill required to do so.
Also, saying everybody can make it to EVP 999 could easily be taken as shaming 98% of the community for not making it there when everybody supposedly should be able to. So I'd say phrase it a bit differently if you're going to try to say similar things in the future.
Salmon Run epitomizes the Peter Principle: everyone is eventually promoted into incompetence.
The way I see it, there's no point blaming your teammates. No matter how good or bad they are, you can't control for them. You can help them do what they're trying to do, you can hope they help you do what your trying to do, you can revive them, you can hope they revive you, but you can't _control_ for them.
Worry about your own game, playing as optimally as you can, and adapting to what your teammates are doing rather than what you want them to be doing. That's the stuff you can control for. Getting frustrated about your teammates is as useless, and detrimental to your play, as getting frustrated by a mistake you made 5, 10, 15 seconds ago that's made things harder for you now. Learn from it after the game, sure, but right now? Your energy is better spent on playing the situation you're currently in, not the Might Have Been you wish you were in instead, either due to your teammates not being on the same page as you or because of a mistake you made that's made your current situation worse than it might otherwise have been.