@@RyanLeach hey, you weren't at Berklee around 2012-16 by any chance eh? Lile when George Clinton was still there? I went there & was in the first SSP film scoring sessions program etc. Feel like your name rings a hellofa bell.
Im a clarinetist and i played Hedwig theme, the final part of this piece is sick. Thouse arpeggios are not very comfortable and occasionaly changing harmony makes it harder to play. But not all music is meant to be easy. This is amazing piece.
I am also a clarinetist that has also performed this piece. I cold heartedly agree, the arpeggios are so weird. Especially running up and down the clarinet like that is a bit difficult at that kind of speed. But, I would 100% relearn and perform this piece any day again!
@@RyanLeach I think I write better for instruments I don't play, because I'm just thinking about how it sounds, and not how difficult it would be to play. I often have to remind myself to not let my composing be limited by my skill level as a musician.
There it goes! a full orchestration semester in less than 20 minutes haha very well put Ryan. I like to think that the woodwinds doubling other sections give respectively: More attack definition to the strings section; And adds character to the brass.
They are like the third of the chord to the brass, and the first of two octaves higher on the chord of the strings, in relative. I've been listening to lots of symphonies lately and it's actually flattering to see that winds are so active (for I play the flute), they can work very well with other sections while they are running, as well as getting solos here and there for first flutes and clarinets for example.
As an oboe/wind player. When tuplets of multiples other than 4s or 3s occur we actually do practice those with thinking about making thwm even, this usually means we slow things way down and work them up. Also as a note, your tuplets will often not sound as clean as they do on a midi so use them sparingly. You forgot one other function of winds, as soloist in the orcheatra...
Not forgotten, the focus was on how they're used in this specific cue and he doesn't use a wind solo. Sorry for discrediting the effort to play clean multiples!
I play trumpet but I second the note about practising tuplets accurately. As a composer I would avoid them whenever something with a regular metric could achieve a similar effect.
@@scladoffle2472 No one here got offended, just a friendly correction. We're here to learn and share ideas, not put others down, as you seem so keen on doing.
There are so many of these videos that I have watched 4 or 5 times over the last few years because I come back and reference them every time I’m struggling with a composition problem. You’re not just creating content to consume once, you’re creating a whole composition handbook in video form!
5:08 As a clarinetist, I can confidently say that that arpeggio is not effortless at that speed (in either octave). There’s lots of right/left hand coordination in that arpeggio as well as going over the break (B natural in the middle of the staff).
As an additional clarinetist, I can remember the hours spent in sectionals figuring out and practicing the best way to play arpeggios and then speeding it all up. Arpeggios are our bread and butter but wow they take time and practice!
Since we got a couple clarinetists here... Hi, hello, I am also a clarinetist that performed this piece. This section, and ending, was a pain haha. But, would relearn and perform it again in a heartbeat.
I’m a strings player, but sometimes arrange stuff for intermediate wind ensembles. I’ve been tempted to write passages like this for them, as they do soooo much to lift the music. Am now very happy that I’ve refrained.
Our wedding had a solo oboist along with a single vocalist; it was so moving I am pretty sure there wasn't a dry eye in the church. I also was a part of a 16 member chamber choir that was accompanied by some very minimalist oboe; at certain times the vocal harmony would split 16 different ways and at the same moment the oboe and choir would crescendo at the same moment, and it was pure magic. I think that the woodwinds, especially the oboe and bassoon are some of the most beautiful and moving sounds that exist in music. Mad props to anyone who can play an oboe-- I tried a couple of times and could barely get any sound out of it, let alone a _pleasing_ sound...lol. The double reed on oboe makes it very difficult.
I would say, if truly mastered and with the finest instruments (especially Guarneri del Gesu), the violin is the most beautiful instrument besides the human voice (without excessive vibrato please!). But the woodwinds add a lot of color and character, woodwind solos play a very important role for variation in character in orchestral pieces.
as an oboist i always get a burst of self confidence whenever i see comments like this talking about how difficult the oboe is 😅😅 a very frustrating journey to learn this instrument but when you can play it... its really beautiful woodwinds are just my favourite family- each instrument has such annindividual character and timbre i'll agree that violin is pretty beautiful when played right, although choosing a "most beautiful" instrument is pretty much impossible in my eyes
@@danielf1066I'm an oboist too, I feel like it's so rarely talked about how difficult it is too play, especially compared to an instrument like the flute, just because our music is similar obviously lower however- but the double red adds so much complexity to the instrument that if you have a bad reed, you create a worse sounding sound
I watched the video because as a bassoon player, the title had me saying DUH! I was thinking about the fun/challenge of playing this piece as a woodwind player. I found the analysis fascinating. As for the hidden color aspect, I so hear that. I often play in concert bands and in either an orchestra OR concert band, its amazing what parts a good composer has a bassoon playing along with. A bad composer/arranger will give me a just tuba part. Good ones have me playing with everybody at some point and a good bassoon player can blend amazingly well with any concert/orchestra instrument. From a concert band perspective, I heard a saying once that you won't really notice a bassoon in a concert band but you will notice it MISSING. Pretty sure they were talking about that hidden color.
You might appreciate the story my wife just told me, her friend's kid watched the video and afterward said "What!? There's a babboon in the orchestra?!"
This is so strange. I was raised with Wind Orchestra rather than string orchestra so writing for winds just comes naturally to me. On the other hand, I struggle immensely with strings😂
Ha yea that's probably true for a lot of wind players but most people I know find strings a lot easier. Especially people who may not play a violin or cello but are at least comfortable with a guitar!
I’m similar to @TraversalScore. Decades playing for and arranging wind Orchestra. Some (not all) of this stuff is no brainer info. But I imagine a lot of the composition students are keyboard players. And, yeah, little idea on how to write for strings.
@@RyanLeach and I’m, as many, all for it! I love his “thick” textures, as they’re not dull but balanced, deeply dialoguing and dramatic or cheery. And your nutshell, no-frills analysis explaining why, fills a gap and I needed it. Thank you! P.S.Near the coda in Hedwig’s theme there appears a so-thick texture in the high registers in the last restatement that always fills me with awe both the product and his genius. Analogously, it’s like watching a well-balanced mural layered with see-through images.
Sir John Williams IS THE MASTER of orchestration! As someone who has studied music nearly my entire 60 years, even his score for the 1970's blockbuster "Earthquake" was near perfection. And by then, he'd already been in the music business for over 30 years. From his pieces for Rod Sterling's "The Twilight Zone" series, to his latest "Harry Potter" & "Star Wars" scores, Sir John Williams never fails to deliver the perfect orchestration! He is unique in that he can pound out to orchestration error of the world's greatest composers, and give their music the proper sound they were meant to have.
Very cool breakdown. 10-tiplets are definitely a John Williams's special touch, that adds that flavor to his music. He's a master of brass and wind sections for many years. I think the usage of those sections has always made his music noticable, breathing and colourful.
This is such an underrated comment, I used to not find these sections and instruments so interesting for a long time until I had the opportunity to be in a project in my city and started studying and playing in a band, only brass and wind, and now I'm just amazed and in love with all I have seen they can do together when used in creative ways. We can do so much interesting things with movie soundtracks and it sounds so present, powerful and colorful, it's so unique and fun. Usually in orchestras it's like they are not actually being used in their full potential but JW knows how to give them the space and opportunity to show something else.
Your videos are incredibly helpful for a guitarist and songwriter like me who loves movie soundtracks and aims to infuse that emotion into my own songwriting. They're among the best I've found on RUclips, so please continue doing what you're doing!
I think my most favorite part of the orchestra score is the harp. The harp is such an essential part of the movie score. I feel the harp is so underrated that it doesn’t get the recognition it deserves.
I am working on my first orchestral piece right now. Williams is a master at composition and orchestration. He uses the instruments in such a unique and fun way. This was really insightful.
yes, one of the things that must never go overlooked while dealing with woodwind instruments is that their players need to breathe, so if you give them a 1 minute solo without spacings they will faint
I had been searching years for clear explaination on music theory of J-pop and after watching your video and getting the book you recommended I subscribed to the channel. The rest of your videos are just as informative and eye-opening, not to mention they are some of the most succinct and well articulated videos I’ve come across in my decade of composing. Keep up the great stuff!
3:10 "Working as a group" I used to play in a fanfare band (Dutch/Belgian type of band with flugelhorns as the main instrument) and I always loved the saxophone section the most, because with a soprano, four alts, two tenors and a bariton they could make such beautiful music as a section on their own. None of the other sections (flugelhorns, trumpets, french horns, trombones, euphoniums and bass tubas) could do that. They all need eachother to build a full sound. The saxophone section can play on their own and sound amazing.
This discussion is similar to the process organists go through deciding on which stops to use. There’s a certain logic to it. Orchestras are way more standardized than organs, so it’s critical to understand how to replicate particular timbres on vastly different instruments.
I love John Williams, but it does slightly annoy me that no one ever seems to mention the orchestrator/s involved. John's music is great, but a lot of the orchestral awesomeness is at least partly the work of the orchestrators he works closely with.
The reason for this is that the orchestrator actually is just writing out what Williams already indicated in his shorthand score. It's not like Williams doesn't know how to orchestrate, it is just too time consuming when working on a movie score that has to meet a deadline.
@@Quotenwagnerianer you underestimate the creativity involved in orchestrating something, especially the JW scores. Sure he can orchestrate, but doesn't mean we shouldn't give kudos to the orchestrator. Williams is more detailed than many composers in his short scores, but anyone who gets paid to do orchestration work knows their input is much more significant than you are implying. I know a couple of fellow composers that do exactly this work for Hollywood films, and the reason no one understands this is just like everything else in Hollywood. A small group of people get the majority of credit and recognition for the work of thousands of people. The reason no one talks about JWs orchestrator is because people like you don't appreciate how significant of a role they play. It's much more than you think.
@@australiancomposer Well, to be fair there was a noticeable shift in his orchestral coloration after Herbert W. Spencer died. I believe "Hook" was the last score he did orchestrate. I did however attribute this to Williams entering a new phase instad of being a result of losing his long term Orchestrator. Especially since his concert works, unless he uses an Orchstrator for that as well, do not sound different in texture than his fiml scores.
@@australiancomposer man it varies by composer, project, deadline, and trust. JW’s sketches are so thorough he conducts from them during his scoring sessions, there isn’t much room for orchestrators to be creative here. It’s unfair of you to claim you know real orchestrators without acknowledging how different their tasks are depending on the composer and project
Excellent video! I feel that I am pretty good at orchestration but this presentation was really eye opening. Thank you. I have Williams’ score for his Star Wars Suite but did not realise that Harry Potter was that interesting. Unlike many film composers, Williams writes in reduced score with all of the parts clearly marked - most compose at the piano and get someone else to orchestrate for them. Sure, Williams music needs orchestration in part but not like most composers. Great video.
This was really helpful, as I’m a beginning composer, and orchestration is probably the hardest part. As a woodwind band player, a comparison between how instruments are used in concert bands vs orchestras would be really helpful. It seems like they have to carry more weight in a band.
One of the most compelling and informative videos I've seen of John Williams on writing for woodwinds was this part of the Empire Strikes Back documentary where he's talking to his orchestrator Herbert Spencer. He sings out the line the winds are playing and it's clear that he's writing for the shape of the line alone, pitches don't matter so much as long as they conform to the shape and the players can play them. ruclips.net/video/feNJSR1kPDo/видео.html
I am a basstrombonist and a couple of times in the season the symphony orchestra where I work play different pieces from John Williams and these pieces are a world treasure.....but they are also freaking HARD. Anyway, every single time it's more then a pleasure to play John Williams ! MY DEEPEST RESPECT MAESTRO ‼️
0:43 actually there are other parts like saxes and recorders are often in orchestras, Also instruments like English horn, bass clarinet and contrabassoon are subcategories.
This is really cool, thank you for giving us these highlights! One think I wonder about is how much of the creative orchestration came from John Williams himself, and how much came from whoever is the orchestrator who takes Williams’ sketches and fleshes them out. I took a film music course and was amazed by how simple the sketches could be, vs the complexity of the finished product.
Yea someone else also pointed out that those orchestrators do not get enough credit. I will say that the sketches I remember seeing were very detailed, but also given his many years of composing orchestral music and conducting I think it's fair to assume he could do just as fine a job as anyone
Im learning how to play the Harry Potter mash (or something like that i can't remember its just a bunch of the songs) in my woodwind band class (im a clarinet btw) very fun and the way the song was made and how certain part work and why they're in there is very interesting
About the wind instruments adding character and color : coming from sound design, I feel we do the same when we add just a bit of pink or white noise over waveforms or mixes (to add character and color). It's interesting to me because noise is the most important thing when we synthesize wind-ish sounds. Great pedagogy, thanks!
What’s the bgm that starts in the “Doubling Other Instruments” section called?? I’m an aspiring composer who just began to learn orchestration and fall in love with the bgm (as well as Ryan’s lectures 😊
This is really fascinating! Would it be possible to hear those pieces with AND without the woodwinds so an untrained ear like mine could try and learn to hear the differences in the tones?
Ryan, your videos are amazing! I've been following you for just a bit now but I've already learned so much! Thank you for everything you share. your growth is well deserved. If you don't mind my asking, where do you find all the movie clips that you use for editing?
Thanks for the explanation. Would be good if there was comparison. How it sounds with just French horn and then how it sounds with the English horn added, etc, that kind of thing.
I was so happy playing string bass for his nimbus 2000 because if I played the flute on that piece I would die and don’t get me started in the piccolo, but it’s still really fun
I usually don't like orchestration videos because they either lack practical examples or go into so much detail and variations that you loose focus. I'm pretty comfortable with writing for wind instruments of any kind but I think this helps anyone that has no clue how to write for woodwinds.
Another piece to study for excellent handling of winds and strings is the sunrise movement from Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe. It's not easy, but much less challenging than some of the arpeggios in this cue.
I really feel that the bass clarinet is one of the most versatile instruments in the orchestra. Giving it solos needs a certain sensitivity but it can color the sound of almost any other instruments. It's less nasal than the double reeds but still reedy enough. Mahler and Strauss write really well and creatively for it. Franck symphony in D is also an interesting one for bass clarinet orchestration Edit: i like Mahler and Strauss's bass clarinet writing because they are not afraid of its range. Modern instruments have only extended that range
I mean both being in the key of c and both having a similar role among the strings and woodwinds respectively it makes sense why the park would be doubled
Would love to see a video on writing inner voice movement and how to decide how sparse or clustered the inner voices should be. Have been trying to tease out what the hell is happening in Jeremy Soule's Forgotten Vale written for the skyrim ost.
I'm not sure you needed to correct yourself at 4:46 , I would consider 'the' 5th to refer to the harmony, and 'a' fifth to refer to an interval, So from C I would consider 'the' 5th below to be G, and 'a' 5th below to be F. Maybe that's just how I phrase things? Just discovered your videos, this is the 2nd one I'm watching, already subbed with the bell notification! 😁Fantastically informative and well worded!
I've just stumbled across your channel. Please forgive my late arrival. This has provoked a couple of little tidbits of reaction: #1: The staggeringly brilliant orchestrator Jonathan Tunick, whose affinity for wind parts is quite striking indeed (his first instrument is clarinet), wrote the original parts for a lot of Stephen Sondheim scores, including _A Little Night Music_ -- their original pit orchestra was prone to puns. So, the wind players retitled the song "Everyday A Little Death" as "Every Page A Little Breath" for obvious reasons. #2: I believe it's called a Dectuplet when their are 10 notes.
Hey! I love this! However I would really have loved to hear (especially in the doubling instruments part) and example without the “extra” element so that I can better compare the difference it makes (for example, play the sample without the oboe and then with it or add it halfway through).
5:30 ".... to give the real human players a chance to breath" (clarinets commonly never being allowed to breathe in unison because every composer gives us constant 16th note runs would like to have a word with you.) The arpeggios are still pretty cool with slight differences between them. A personal challenge I have with them every time though is getting each note to come out and not rush ahead somehow.
Love the stuff about orchestra 1:28 the English horn is heard better on the longer notes Also you would think he would talk about the strings in this video because it is based on wizards
I like this quite a bit but if there’s one point of criticism for the video: I think it would be better if you showed what the instruments without the woodwinds sounded like and compared it to the orchestration *with* the woodwinds. I think it would illustrate the point of woodwinds being able to add texture more. Great video as always!!
1:06 Thank you for providing audio examples. But when your point is to show us what instruments sound like (either on their own or in combination), I preferred those examples which were recordings of people playing real instruments. If the audio is synthesized, and something sounds off, is that because something in the music made it so, or is it an artefact of the synth sounds?
🎻 How to Write EPIC Cinematic Strings ruclips.net/video/tddq3sQ91Mk/видео.html
Hey Ryan maybe you would want to fix this comment if you want it to stay on top ;)
Thanks! By fix I think you mean pin unless there’s some other problem?
@@RyanLeach Pin! Oh yeah true, english as second language here hahaha
@@RyanLeach hey, you weren't at Berklee around 2012-16 by any chance eh? Lile when George Clinton was still there?
I went there & was in the first SSP film scoring sessions program etc. Feel like your name rings a hellofa bell.
@@Dimitri-Jordania I was Film Scoring at Berklee but graduated in 2005
Im a clarinetist and i played Hedwig theme, the final part of this piece is sick. Thouse arpeggios are not very comfortable and occasionaly changing harmony makes it harder to play. But not all music is meant to be easy. This is amazing piece.
I like something Alain Mayrand says about writing along the lines of "if you can't play it it's probably good"
I am also a clarinetist that has also performed this piece. I cold heartedly agree, the arpeggios are so weird. Especially running up and down the clarinet like that is a bit difficult at that kind of speed. But, I would 100% relearn and perform this piece any day again!
@@RyanLeach I think I write better for instruments I don't play, because I'm just thinking about how it sounds, and not how difficult it would be to play. I often have to remind myself to not let my composing be limited by my skill level as a musician.
Same. John Williams really likes to give woodwinds their workout, but always fun to play.
You know what's worse? Pomp and Circumstance. I had to play it last Saturday.
There it goes! a full orchestration semester in less than 20 minutes haha very well put Ryan. I like to think that the woodwinds doubling other sections give respectively: More attack definition to the strings section; And adds character to the brass.
They are like the third of the chord to the brass, and the first of two octaves higher on the chord of the strings, in relative.
I've been listening to lots of symphonies lately and it's actually flattering to see that winds are so active (for I play the flute), they can work very well with other sections while they are running, as well as getting solos here and there for first flutes and clarinets for example.
Bro, change the place where you study if you knew only this in a semester of orchestration
@@dan-us6nk Now I got curious for which simphonies you are currently studying. Care to share?
I would gladily change! @giulio romano Would you kindly become my sponsor for a masters on RCM? hahahaha
Very insightful and I can vouch about this. JW music is simply colorful in a lot of his scores. thanks for this Ryan!
I appreciate hearing that!
As an oboe/wind player. When tuplets of multiples other than 4s or 3s occur we actually do practice those with thinking about making thwm even, this usually means we slow things way down and work them up. Also as a note, your tuplets will often not sound as clean as they do on a midi so use them sparingly.
You forgot one other function of winds, as soloist in the orcheatra...
Not forgotten, the focus was on how they're used in this specific cue and he doesn't use a wind solo. Sorry for discrediting the effort to play clean multiples!
I play trumpet but I second the note about practising tuplets accurately. As a composer I would avoid them whenever something with a regular metric could achieve a similar effect.
Best part about the oboe is the solos!
Flutist here! Nothing kills a moment like a crushed, muddy run. It's like you're vomiting your way to the target note.
@@scladoffle2472 No one here got offended, just a friendly correction. We're here to learn and share ideas, not put others down, as you seem so keen on doing.
There are so many of these videos that I have watched 4 or 5 times over the last few years because I come back and reference them every time I’m struggling with a composition problem. You’re not just creating content to consume once, you’re creating a whole composition handbook in video form!
5:08 As a clarinetist, I can confidently say that that arpeggio is not effortless at that speed (in either octave). There’s lots of right/left hand coordination in that arpeggio as well as going over the break (B natural in the middle of the staff).
As a fellow clarinetist the break and different fingerings makes everything more difficult
As an additional clarinetist, I can remember the hours spent in sectionals figuring out and practicing the best way to play arpeggios and then speeding it all up. Arpeggios are our bread and butter but wow they take time and practice!
Amen
Since we got a couple clarinetists here... Hi, hello, I am also a clarinetist that performed this piece. This section, and ending, was a pain haha. But, would relearn and perform it again in a heartbeat.
I’m a strings player, but sometimes arrange stuff for intermediate wind ensembles. I’ve been tempted to write passages like this for them, as they do soooo much to lift the music. Am now very happy that I’ve refrained.
Our wedding had a solo oboist along with a single vocalist; it was so moving I am pretty sure there wasn't a dry eye in the church. I also was a part of a 16 member chamber choir that was accompanied by some very minimalist oboe; at certain times the vocal harmony would split 16 different ways and at the same moment the oboe and choir would crescendo at the same moment, and it was pure magic. I think that the woodwinds, especially the oboe and bassoon are some of the most beautiful and moving sounds that exist in music. Mad props to anyone who can play an oboe-- I tried a couple of times and could barely get any sound out of it, let alone a _pleasing_ sound...lol. The double reed on oboe makes it very difficult.
I would say, if truly mastered and with the finest instruments (especially Guarneri del Gesu), the violin is the most beautiful instrument besides the human voice (without excessive vibrato please!). But the woodwinds add a lot of color and character, woodwind solos play a very important role for variation in character in orchestral pieces.
as an oboist i always get a burst of self confidence whenever i see comments like this talking about how difficult the oboe is 😅😅
a very frustrating journey to learn this instrument but when you can play it... its really beautiful
woodwinds are just my favourite family- each instrument has such annindividual character and timbre
i'll agree that violin is pretty beautiful when played right, although choosing a "most beautiful" instrument is pretty much impossible in my eyes
@@danielf1066I'm an oboist too, I feel like it's so rarely talked about how difficult it is too play, especially compared to an instrument like the flute, just because our music is similar obviously lower however- but the double red adds so much complexity to the instrument that if you have a bad reed, you create a worse sounding sound
I watched the video because as a bassoon player, the title had me saying DUH! I was thinking about the fun/challenge of playing this piece as a woodwind player. I found the analysis fascinating. As for the hidden color aspect, I so hear that. I often play in concert bands and in either an orchestra OR concert band, its amazing what parts a good composer has a bassoon playing along with. A bad composer/arranger will give me a just tuba part. Good ones have me playing with everybody at some point and a good bassoon player can blend amazingly well with any concert/orchestra instrument. From a concert band perspective, I heard a saying once that you won't really notice a bassoon in a concert band but you will notice it MISSING. Pretty sure they were talking about that hidden color.
You might appreciate the story my wife just told me, her friend's kid watched the video and afterward said "What!? There's a babboon in the orchestra?!"
Those are some wicked lines he wrote - what a genius!
Really like this topic. Thank you for your work. Also interesting how John Williams use brass section in particular horns and trumpets.
Thanks! Yea that guy knows his way around an orchestra
This was such a helpful and clear breakdown of how the winds work in this piece, thank you for making it!
You're very welcome!
This is so strange. I was raised with Wind Orchestra rather than string orchestra so writing for winds just comes naturally to me. On the other hand, I struggle immensely with strings😂
Ha yea that's probably true for a lot of wind players but most people I know find strings a lot easier. Especially people who may not play a violin or cello but are at least comfortable with a guitar!
That's so funny! My problem is just the opposite since I'm a string player 🤣
I’m similar to @TraversalScore. Decades playing for and arranging wind Orchestra. Some (not all) of this stuff is no brainer info. But I imagine a lot of the composition students are keyboard players.
And, yeah, little idea on how to write for strings.
Great to deconstruct those shimmering, lofty sounds. Williams is a master of the music of flight.
Yea that's like his signature "concept"!
@@RyanLeach and I’m, as many, all for it! I love his “thick” textures, as they’re not dull but balanced, deeply dialoguing and dramatic or cheery. And your nutshell, no-frills analysis explaining why, fills a gap and I needed it. Thank you!
P.S.Near the coda in Hedwig’s theme there appears a so-thick texture in the high registers in the last restatement that always fills me with awe both the product and his genius. Analogously, it’s like watching a well-balanced mural layered with see-through images.
I really enjoyed your analysis, Ryan. Sub'd and looking forward to more!
Much appreciated!
Sir John Williams IS THE MASTER of orchestration! As someone who has studied music nearly my entire 60 years, even his score for the 1970's blockbuster "Earthquake" was near perfection. And by then, he'd already been in the music business for over 30 years. From his pieces for Rod Sterling's "The Twilight Zone" series, to his latest "Harry Potter" & "Star Wars" scores, Sir John Williams never fails to deliver the perfect orchestration! He is unique in that he can pound out to orchestration error of the world's greatest composers, and give their music the proper sound they were meant to have.
This is literally life as a woodwind player. Just trills and arpeggios as far as the eye can see.
Very cool breakdown. 10-tiplets are definitely a John Williams's special touch, that adds that flavor to his music. He's a master of brass and wind sections for many years. I think the usage of those sections has always made his music noticable, breathing and colourful.
This is such an underrated comment, I used to not find these sections and instruments so interesting for a long time until I had the opportunity to be in a project in my city and started studying and playing in a band, only brass and wind, and now I'm just amazed and in love with all I have seen they can do together when used in creative ways. We can do so much interesting things with movie soundtracks and it sounds so present, powerful and colorful, it's so unique and fun. Usually in orchestras it's like they are not actually being used in their full potential but JW knows how to give them the space and opportunity to show something else.
I can not overstate how important this content is, and how well its edited and delivered. Bravo, keep it up.
Thank you for being so generous with your time and sharing your thoughts and break down. Outstanding.
4:13 for several years of watching music tutorials, you are literally the only case I found which raises the topic of "run math"
Fantastic ! He is a master of woodwinds.
And just about everything else!
Your videos are incredibly helpful for a guitarist and songwriter like me who loves movie soundtracks and aims to infuse that emotion into my own songwriting. They're among the best I've found on RUclips, so please continue doing what you're doing!
Again a top video tutorial. Now about the use of windinstruments. Just great👌👍✨
So glad to see this video and channel getting the attention they deserve!
Thanks Gavin!
I think my most favorite part of the orchestra score is the harp. The harp is such an essential part of the movie score. I feel the harp is so underrated that it doesn’t get the recognition it deserves.
watching you make music writing easier and more professional
I am working on my first orchestral piece right now. Williams is a master at composition and orchestration. He uses the instruments in such a unique and fun way. This was really insightful.
Perfect, orchestral music and Harry Potter combined. Nice video
Thanks!
yes, one of the things that must never go overlooked while dealing with woodwind instruments is that their players need to breathe, so if you give them a 1 minute solo without spacings they will faint
I had been searching years for clear explaination on music theory of J-pop and after watching your video and getting the book you recommended I subscribed to the channel. The rest of your videos are just as informative and eye-opening, not to mention they are some of the most succinct and well articulated videos I’ve come across in my decade of composing. Keep up the great stuff!
3:10 "Working as a group"
I used to play in a fanfare band (Dutch/Belgian type of band with flugelhorns as the main instrument) and I always loved the saxophone section the most, because with a soprano, four alts, two tenors and a bariton they could make such beautiful music as a section on their own. None of the other sections (flugelhorns, trumpets, french horns, trombones, euphoniums and bass tubas) could do that. They all need eachother to build a full sound. The saxophone section can play on their own and sound amazing.
This discussion is similar to the process organists go through deciding on which stops to use. There’s a certain logic to it. Orchestras are way more standardized than organs, so it’s critical to understand how to replicate particular timbres on vastly different instruments.
Very interesting, I have never really studied organ so hadn't given much thought before to the choices of stops before
I love John Williams, but it does slightly annoy me that no one ever seems to mention the orchestrator/s involved. John's music is great, but a lot of the orchestral awesomeness is at least partly the work of the orchestrators he works closely with.
That’s a fair point, they are mostly invisible contributors! At least to JW’s credit from what I’ve seen of his sketches they are very thorough
The reason for this is that the orchestrator actually is just writing out what Williams already indicated in his shorthand score. It's not like Williams doesn't know how to orchestrate, it is just too time consuming when working on a movie score that has to meet a deadline.
@@Quotenwagnerianer you underestimate the creativity involved in orchestrating something, especially the JW scores. Sure he can orchestrate, but doesn't mean we shouldn't give kudos to the orchestrator. Williams is more detailed than many composers in his short scores, but anyone who gets paid to do orchestration work knows their input is much more significant than you are implying. I know a couple of fellow composers that do exactly this work for Hollywood films, and the reason no one understands this is just like everything else in Hollywood. A small group of people get the majority of credit and recognition for the work of thousands of people. The reason no one talks about JWs orchestrator is because people like you don't appreciate how significant of a role they play. It's much more than you think.
@@australiancomposer Well, to be fair there was a noticeable shift in his orchestral coloration after Herbert W. Spencer died.
I believe "Hook" was the last score he did orchestrate.
I did however attribute this to Williams entering a new phase instad of being a result of losing his long term Orchestrator.
Especially since his concert works, unless he uses an Orchstrator for that as well, do not sound different in texture than his fiml scores.
@@australiancomposer man it varies by composer, project, deadline, and trust. JW’s sketches are so thorough he conducts from them during his scoring sessions, there isn’t much room for orchestrators to be creative here. It’s unfair of you to claim you know real orchestrators without acknowledging how different their tasks are depending on the composer and project
I found you again! Thanks to you i read in 2014 richard cohn's audacious euphony and it blew my mind. Now i will happen again with your channel.
Just came from PTYA.
Huge congrats on your effort mate, it was rewarded!
definitely one of my new favorite content creators!!! such nice explanations
I’ve watched 2 minutes of this and already learned more than my entire semester of orchestration
This was an AWESOME video. I could have happily watched you do a measure-by-measure analysis of the entire score!
Excellent video! I feel that I am pretty good at orchestration but this presentation was really eye opening. Thank you.
I have Williams’ score for his Star Wars Suite but did not realise that Harry Potter was that interesting.
Unlike many film composers, Williams writes in reduced score with all of the parts clearly marked - most compose at the piano and get someone else to orchestrate for them.
Sure, Williams music needs orchestration in part but not like most composers. Great video.
This was really helpful, as I’m a beginning composer, and orchestration is probably the hardest part. As a woodwind band player, a comparison between how instruments are used in concert bands vs orchestras would be really helpful. It seems like they have to carry more weight in a band.
I haven't found a lot of analyses of Williams' music out there. I don't know if it's because academics are snobs. I'd love to see more.
Check out the work of Mark Richards at Film Music Notes, he’s an academic and not a snob!
@@RyanLeach Thanks!
I don’t know what made me want to watch this, but I stayed for the full thing 😅 Brilliant video!
Love it!
Thanks!
This a great video. Just when I thought I couldn't love John Williams any more...!
One of the most compelling and informative videos I've seen of John Williams on writing for woodwinds was this part of the Empire Strikes Back documentary where he's talking to his orchestrator Herbert Spencer. He sings out the line the winds are playing and it's clear that he's writing for the shape of the line alone, pitches don't matter so much as long as they conform to the shape and the players can play them. ruclips.net/video/feNJSR1kPDo/видео.html
That is awesome, thanks for sharing!
I am a basstrombonist and a couple of times in the season the symphony orchestra where I work play different pieces from John Williams and these pieces are a world treasure.....but they are also freaking HARD.
Anyway, every single time it's more then a pleasure to play John Williams !
MY DEEPEST RESPECT MAESTRO ‼️
I love this, thanks for deciphering the magic - you somehow made it even more magical ^^
Wow. This was an amazing video. It’s great applying this knowledge to music that I play and seeing how it all blends together.
As an oboeist, sometimes I enjoy playing long, complex, runs with the chairs around me more than solos
Really excellent explanation. I think I should go and work on my scales.
Thank you for the good explanations!
0:43 actually there are other parts like saxes and recorders are often in orchestras, Also instruments like English horn, bass clarinet and contrabassoon are subcategories.
So happy to have found your channel !!
Thanks for the vid
This is really cool, thank you for giving us these highlights! One think I wonder about is how much of the creative orchestration came from John Williams himself, and how much came from whoever is the orchestrator who takes Williams’ sketches and fleshes them out. I took a film music course and was amazed by how simple the sketches could be, vs the complexity of the finished product.
Yea someone else also pointed out that those orchestrators do not get enough credit. I will say that the sketches I remember seeing were very detailed, but also given his many years of composing orchestral music and conducting I think it's fair to assume he could do just as fine a job as anyone
Conrad Pope said that something like 90% of the orchestration is already done by Williams.
Never realised the number of notes in a run are more happy accidents based on their start and target note. Thanks great tip!
i’d love to see a breakdown of his use of Percussion in his scores as well!
your'e in luck ruclips.net/video/81zkATq4eqg/видео.html
Excellent breakdown and very helpful.
Im learning how to play the Harry Potter mash (or something like that i can't remember its just a bunch of the songs) in my woodwind band class (im a clarinet btw) very fun and the way the song was made and how certain part work and why they're in there is very interesting
I feel as though we are going to the same school or something because we are doing the exact same thing and I’m a clarinet.
@@creamlet4571 if your school is in nc then maybe
@@Arlari.c oop quite far away actually. mines in TX
@@creamlet4571 guess its just a coincidence
@@Arlari.c ye
About the wind instruments adding character and color : coming from sound design, I feel we do the same when we add just a bit of pink or white noise over waveforms or mixes (to add character and color).
It's interesting to me because noise is the most important thing when we synthesize wind-ish sounds. Great pedagogy, thanks!
epic analysis fren, thank you
I would request a video about articulations, and how to utilize them.
Thanks for the suggestion!
It’s adding flavor
Saxes have yet to be added to the chat
What’s the bgm that starts in the “Doubling Other Instruments” section called?? I’m an aspiring composer who just began to learn orchestration and fall in love with the bgm (as well as Ryan’s lectures 😊
This is really fascinating! Would it be possible to hear those pieces with AND without the woodwinds so an untrained ear like mine could try and learn to hear the differences in the tones?
I'm a clarinettist; Hedwig's theme is a fun challenge, and the sound is definitely worth it!
I love this
where can i see the score of this song?
Ryan, your videos are amazing! I've been following you for just a bit now but I've already learned so much! Thank you for everything you share. your growth is well deserved. If you don't mind my asking, where do you find all the movie clips that you use for editing?
Thanks so much!
Often I find the clips on RUclips, but the little "one-liners" can be found at playphrase.me/
@@RyanLeach thank you! I really appreciate it :) can't wait to see how far your channel can go!
Thanks for the explanation. Would be good if there was comparison. How it sounds with just French horn and then how it sounds with the English horn added, etc, that kind of thing.
i’m literally here simply bc a kid in my music production class wrote this amazing fanfare song from scratch and now i wanna do it too
I was so happy playing string bass for his nimbus 2000 because if I played the flute on that piece I would die and don’t get me started in the piccolo, but it’s still really fun
Quite liking what I see here, take my subscription, Good Sir!
I usually don't like orchestration videos because they either lack practical examples or go into so much detail and variations that you loose focus. I'm pretty comfortable with writing for wind instruments of any kind but I think this helps anyone that has no clue how to write for woodwinds.
You’re a wizard with a wand/baton !
fascinating explanation! thanks!
You are welcome!
playing harry potter music in band as a flute, my favorite music ive played
As a flautist, playing the runs in hedwigs theme is so hard but wow it's awesome when you get it right!
Like the notes aren't hard in themselves but the speed is a big yikes moment
Another piece to study for excellent handling of winds and strings is the sunrise movement from Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe. It's not easy, but much less challenging than some of the arpeggios in this cue.
i feel rlly appreciated- bass clarinet
That's a great presentation! Thank you for such interesting work. Now, let us all tip our hats to Rimsky!
Absolutely! One of those rare teachers who could back it up with their own music! Snow Maiden Suite is probably my favorite of his
I really feel that the bass clarinet is one of the most versatile instruments in the orchestra. Giving it solos needs a certain sensitivity but it can color the sound of almost any other instruments. It's less nasal than the double reeds but still reedy enough. Mahler and Strauss write really well and creatively for it. Franck symphony in D is also an interesting one for bass clarinet orchestration
Edit: i like Mahler and Strauss's bass clarinet writing because they are not afraid of its range. Modern instruments have only extended that range
I mean both being in the key of c and both having a similar role among the strings and woodwinds respectively it makes sense why the park would be doubled
Would love to see a video on writing inner voice movement and how to decide how sparse or clustered the inner voices should be. Have been trying to tease out what the hell is happening in Jeremy Soule's Forgotten Vale written for the skyrim ost.
I'm not sure you needed to correct yourself at 4:46 , I would consider 'the' 5th to refer to the harmony, and 'a' fifth to refer to an interval, So from C I would consider 'the' 5th below to be G, and 'a' 5th below to be F. Maybe that's just how I phrase things?
Just discovered your videos, this is the 2nd one I'm watching, already subbed with the bell notification! 😁Fantastically informative and well worded!
I'M PLAYING IT IN BAND, IT'S INSANE
This motivates me to practice scales and arpeggios way more than my director ever did lol
I've just stumbled across your channel. Please forgive my late arrival. This has provoked a couple of little tidbits of reaction:
#1: The staggeringly brilliant orchestrator Jonathan Tunick, whose affinity for wind parts is quite striking indeed (his first instrument is clarinet), wrote the original parts for a lot of Stephen Sondheim scores, including _A Little Night Music_ -- their original pit orchestra was prone to puns. So, the wind players retitled the song "Everyday A Little Death" as "Every Page A Little Breath" for obvious reasons.
#2: I believe it's called a Dectuplet when their are 10 notes.
I'm seeing him on April 25 at hienz hall, I can't believe I'm actually going to see him conduct live, it's sureal.
Nice, have fun!
Hey! I love this! However I would really have loved to hear (especially in the doubling instruments part) and example without the “extra” element so that I can better compare the difference it makes (for example, play the sample without the oboe and then with it or add it halfway through).
5:30 ".... to give the real human players a chance to breath"
(clarinets commonly never being allowed to breathe in unison because every composer gives us constant 16th note runs would like to have a word with you.)
The arpeggios are still pretty cool with slight differences between them. A personal challenge I have with them every time though is getting each note to come out and not rush ahead somehow.
Love the stuff about orchestra
1:28 the English horn is heard better on the longer notes
Also you would think he would talk about the strings in this video because it is based on wizards
Excellent didactic! What sample libraries are you using?
Thanks! It's called Note Performer. In this case I'm using it in Dorico but it works with Finale and Sibelius too
Where do you get your scores for videos like this or the how to train your dragon video?
I like this quite a bit but if there’s one point of criticism for the video: I think it would be better if you showed what the instruments without the woodwinds sounded like and compared it to the orchestration *with* the woodwinds. I think it would illustrate the point of woodwinds being able to add texture more.
Great video as always!!
1:06 Thank you for providing audio examples. But when your point is to show us what instruments sound like (either on their own or in combination), I preferred those examples which were recordings of people playing real instruments. If the audio is synthesized, and something sounds off, is that because something in the music made it so, or is it an artefact of the synth sounds?
Thank you for funding the orchestra on the next video 😃
I would love to know the libraries used for this
The flute part in the Jurassic Park theme is also very wicked!!!