He was trying to convince the orcs to vote for him instead of just ordering them because he dominates them🤷♂️ Sauron doesn’t have someone crown him I’m sorry lol he puts that crown on himself.
Well tbf they haven't stuck to lore anywhere else so far so why bother now? The fact that the elves know of his plans for the rings is just insane world breaking plot wise.
Someone made a good point to mention she said "he deceived me," vs "I was deceived." The former takes the focus off of her and on sauron instead of her taking responsibility for her recklessness and stupidity lol.
They went with their shitty fanfic so far now, that they outright contradicting what little of the lore exits for that period and those events. Being bad was clearly not enough for this show, writers are clearly making huge effort to ruin existing lore.
In LOTR, the eagles can't be commanded to do anything - they're not trained pets, they're almosot god-tier creatures who have their own purposes (like Tom Bombadil). I'm sure Gandalf would've wanted their help at the battle of Pelennor Fields too, but they only show up when they want to. Not all beings in the story want to get involved in war. I mean, theoretically Eru Iluvatar could've just teleported the One Ring to Mount Doom. The eagles disinterest isn't a plot hole, it's consistent with the world. LOTR has one of the tightest stories and lore; Tolkien wouldn't have had included such a glaring oversight.
Then there's the fact that the Eagles were powerful, and like all powerful individuals that power made them susceptible to the rings influence. They wouldn't have carried it for the same reason as Gandalf.
The eagles understood it was a test for men to go through. They helped when they could. And by no means would they bnother with something like a cornitation.
@@JusticeArtorius Yeah agreed. Dont get me wrong the eagles are cool, but they would have been utterly slaughtered at the battle for pelennor fields. If not by arrows, they would have been ripped apart by the drakes.
To be fair... Morgoth was the biggest evil. Sauron was just his 2nd in command But that still doesn't excuse the fact that he can't just... flex terror on the orcs like he did a literal ship destroying in seconds creature, the Watcher in the Water, or the Balrogs... yea they just want "hunky Sauron" not an actual dark lord
Sauron, the greatest necromancer among the Dark Lord's folk; Sauron, the sorcerer who composed *Ash Nazg durbatulûk, ash Nazg gimbatul* ..., Sauron, the Lieutenant of Angband who was in charge of completing the dreadful "research and development project" that lead to the creation of the first hordes of Orcs... depicted as a boring and fake mortal politician that was forced to negotiate with the low infantry...🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️.
During a fight with a deific wolf hound, Sauron shapeshifted first into a werewolf, then a giant serpent, then a number of other horrific creatures before being forced to flee in the shape of a giant vampire bat. In what universe would a bunch of orcs have the power to overthrow him? Regarding your question about whether the orcs are being used as allegory for real life issues -- yes, they are. Somehow, in the past two decades or so, orcs became an allegory for black people ... which doesn't make any god damn sense, because in every universe that has orcs, black people also exist.
Thing is, other modern fantasy projects use discrimination themes in their works in regards to the different species, usually grounding them in the histories of some species having malevolent cultures and histories, leading to prejudice against them, like Orcs or Goblins, even when individuals from those species are different from the rest, usually being portrayed as being removed from their species' generally primitive cultures and being raised in more stable conditions among other civilized species. That same logic doesn't entirely apply in Lord Of The Rings, as species like Orcs are within the context of the lore essentially designed to be "predisposed to evil", or rather, to savagery and malice. It's more than cultural limitations, it's almost physiological to a degree. But again, that's only in Tolkien's vision, and this show obviously takes more than a few liberties with that lore, which would work if the stories were coherent and well executed (like how Gollum is a sympathetic and tragic character despite ultimately being an antagonist).
@robertbryant4669 it's like they forgot humans exist in Mumakan. Where the oliphaunts come from. But hey...why use actual black people? Let's just randomly sprinkle diversity among orcs. These writers.....wtf
A drop of lore; Sauron worked for Morgoth, who created the orcs. He used elves and dark magic to create TAINTED and EVIL creatures. They were bound to his will, and later to the will of Sauron. The orcs relished in all things violent and evil.
Thanks, it’s been many years since I read the books and I was starting to wonder if I was misremembering. The first breed of Orc were Elves twisted by dark magic and the later versions were basically artificially created, engineered to be biological weapons. Either way they were never meant to be a real species.
Alteori, Galadriel is married to Celeborn, she only mentions him ONCE in the entirety of the show from the last season. Elrond and Galadriel are actually mother and son in law, Elrond is married to Galadriel's daughter Celebrian
Elrond does not marry Celebrian until the beginning of the Third Age. Though Celebrian was supposed to have been born near the beginning of the Second Age.
The fast travel points in this show are insane for someone who actually knows the map of Middle Earth. For context, Sauron was near the top of the map when he was assassinated, then he was in the Southlands by the time he took human form. Then, him on the ship with the old man and his people is almost the equivalent of all of Frodo's entire journey in all three of the Lord of the Rings movies from the South Land's. There are months of travel between these plot points; pretty much there are months of travel between every location they use in this show.
This show gets Sauron and the orcs SO wrong, it’s actually hurts lol. Sauron would rule over the orcs with an iron fist. He would never, ever, be giving a speech to them in some room, likes he’s trying to sell them all a new Hoover vacuum lol. So stupid. One of his biggest defining traits is that he desires order above all else… HIS order. Anyone who gets in the way of that would be immediately put to death… That’s why he makes the rings for all the powerful peoples of each of the races… is to put the wearers under his power and influence, so that there is no one left powerful enough to defy him. Which is also why he overlooked the hobbits… he thought they were powerless, weak and unimportant beings.
Really, portraying Sauron as a sly, weaselly commander who operates by hints and suggestions to keep the orcs whipped into a frenzy would have been more interesting AND more faithful to Tolkien's tone. But that wouldn't give us a Brooding Bad Boy for the Twitterati to lust over.
If Sauron were to ever give a speech to the orcs, it would be to threaten them into doing what he wanted. Sauron was aware of how sloppy and devious the orcs were, and we even see in the books how some of the orcs actively plotted to abandon Sauron and go criming off on their own. His only direct interaction with them would have been to instill fear and order, not inspiration and hope. Imagine the Eye of Sauron in Peter Jackson's film giving his army a pep talk, the orcs probably would have torn down Barad-Dur themselves lol.
@@Mikael22-18 How would they be free from the influence from the Dark Lord? Their entire existence is because of the Dark Lord to begin with.... Also Tolkien never said that in his letters.
Yeah Tolkien as a devoted Catholic would want you to feel sorry for a literal demon that's why he had a married woman lust for him.... I hate this world
Just one thing to clarify. The eagles of the original trilogy could not fly them into mordor. With the eye of Sauron watching, he could have and would gave seen them miles away before they got there and it would have been disastrous. The eagles would never do such a thing and Gandalf would never ask them to. The only reason they flew in at the end is because the ring was destroyed along with the dark influences around the land.
Some lore context. Iluvatar (God basically) created the Valar (lesser gods) and their servants, the Maiar (pretty much angels). Sauron is a maiar that was under the service of Melkor, a valar that became evil. So yeah, he is a powerful and supernatural being, yet in this show he gets killed by regular orcs at the beggining of the season.
Well, he still can die physically no matter shows lack of Lore understanding. In real lore his body died when numenor sank so he can be destroyed by same things that would kill regular men. Normal Elf killed Gothmog the lord of Balrog who was also a Maiar. And those Balrogs were made Obsolete by creation of Dragons because Melkor saw that Balrogs are not enough. Power scaling isn't as easy Valar>Maiar>everyone else
@@michaelstark8720 yeah but what numenor sank was the wrath of the Valar itself. Was it really a normal elf that killed the Gothmog? In most cases the Power scaling Valar>Maiar>everyone else is correct.
@@PandaPanda-ud4ne Yes it was normal elf Ecthelion and if Valar are the strongest, why didn't Melkor went alone against army of elves? he can't die because he is Valar! Right? Maiar Thuringwetil died when Sauron and Huan fought in Isle of werewolves and of all creatures Morgoth had, Carcharoth was one who guarded the gates who was normal werewolf raised by Morgoth. The fact is that Maiar spirits are not that powerful really They were created by Eru to serve Valar. They are powerful mostly because of their age, not their inherit power. The moment they are placed on stage, they can die same as other species can. And Wrath of Valar make Numenor sank. That's it. What they would make special curse just to get sauron's body but he then latter still returns and wage war on middle earth?
I don't see "angel gets murked by mortals" as an issue, considering Christians believe the same thing to be possible, hence Lot pimping out his daughters to the townsfolk to protect two angels being seen as a good thing.
@@cy-one No. I have talked about this to an orthodox jew, who read the scene in the original, and is also watching a lot of rabbi videos, and she told me, that generally, Lot is considered to be evil for pimping out his daughters to "protect" the angels. And the logic is solid, since there is no way any of the townsfolk, even in mass, could touch the two angels. Lot should have known this. Lot only wanted to score points. And it went badly.
Knowing the lore and watching the rings of power... its like having seen the Mona Lisa in a museum then coming back the next week to see that an artist has been brought in to "Improve it"
Contract obligations dont allowed them to do so... However it is at least reliving to know rhey are bleeding money over this and will NEVER make the money they spent just for the rights of this stuff.
Yeah he did lol. He told people on multiple occasions not to read that deep into LofTRs plot being an allegory for anything. He was just like, "Dudes, it started as a mythological retelling of Britain's history. It's got some themes going on, but it's not any deeper than that. Don't be reading into my plots and trying to find hidden meanings. I just wanted to write some cool shit."
Orcs were supposed to be living weapons under the control of the Dark Lords, but know they want Sauron to be a revolutionary leader?! She’s the villain and Sauron is a failed Venon rip off
I'm getting more Satan from Devilman Crybaby from this interpretation of Sauron allying himself with Orcs, both Sauron and Satan being angelic beings that rebelled against other angels and deities with an army of monsters (Sauron with Orcs and Satan with demons, which aren't corrupted angels, but these aliens that used to live on Earth). Main difference is Sauron in the books was mainly greedy, but Show Sauron and Satan see the monster species they command as "pure beings" that deserve dominion over the world over the "flawed and imperfect" civilized species they come into conflict with.
Sauron *does his speech* Orc 1: "So, when do we start slaughtering people? My sword is itching." Orc 2: "Quiet, meathead. Don't interrupt the Boss when he's talking." Sauron: "....and we will create a new order." Orc 1: "But....I don't really like order. I like slaughtering enemies and hearing them beg for mercy." Orc 2: "Yeah, this kinda sucks."
Sauron would have used his voice to command the orcs to stop trying to kill him. Even outside the books, this show is not consistent with anything. The orcs are not that bright to understand what this phoney Sauron was trying to say to begin with.
That's because Sauron is basically a god in the books lol. The idea that he was overthrown by a bunch of orcs is soooo stupidly funny. Book Sauron would just like look at the orcs that were rebelling and kill them with a wave of his hand. Or he'd turn into a werewolf and use them all as chew toys. Like what are you doing show?! 🤣
@@TheTytoGaurdian and interestingly enough the Shadow of Mordor games portray orcs and their culture better than RoP despite also not being true to lore, we don’t really know much about their culture other than they’re built as killing machines who obey anyone clearly more powerful but at least those games made it somewhat creative and true to who they are compared to whatever this show did
@@maiafay I'm hoping they will come out with a revised Season 3 Is Final Season plan "to wrap everything up." It will let them slink away with fewer losses while still not admitting they screwed up.
@@idolsrule4678 What these big studios don't realize is that their output is too. I can change the channel, switch to a different service, pop in another DVD.
Sauron: - For I seek new kind of power, not of the flesh but over flesh Alrighty then, let's jot it down as "in the second age, Sauron got Alzheimer's and forgot he's a Maya, a creature that cares about flesh no more than clothes"
@@NoahGooder Mediocrity is everywhere in media. Quick buck..Dont work for quality. It shows. Did amazon think by ripping off the "Lord of the Rings" this would have produced money? No. We are litterally at a point where unfettered greed and Uber lazy effort replaces good craft and real effort. Its really not that hard to produce good meida. It takes time and planning with people who actually want to produce a good product and not rip the consumer off. I think that era is long gone, at least on a large scale.
I’ve noticed this with fanfic writers regarding criticism. They cry when receiving it and take it personally. I think that’s a problem with professional writers now as well. No one can handle feedback anymore, and so the newer shows are rife with plot holes and lack of logic. No one checks them in the writing room. It’s one big circle jerk. And then when the audience does, they can’t handle it. There’s no excuse for the lack of professionalism in their production.
That's why they use DEI as a safety net: whenever someone gives them criticism of any kind, they can safely play the race card and pat themselves on the back.
And when the criticism really starts to damage them, they play the r*cism and s*xism cards to demonise unhappy fans and avoid any accountability. As well as a tactic for bad writers to avoid criticism, it's the perfect insurance for corporations to allow them to keep selling mediocre content.
This is just Twilight, for people who liked Twilight, any one who gives AF about anything Tolkin wrote can't seriously like this. The amount of stories coming out of Hollywood where the villains are being portrayed with heroic qualities and heroes with villianas properties...WTF are these writers trying to say? "I don't know the lore," neither do these writers. That's why it's so confusing, because it doesn't align with any of the lore. The show doesn't even follow what it establishes. Like it's established that Sauron was this kind of weak guy that was Caesared by orcs, was goo for who knows how long, then became Halbrand. So was he stronger before becoming this unimportant little potato of man orcs could take out? What happened to him? How exactly was he a threat if you've established him to be kind of a b? Don't know, and neither do the writers.
Probably because the writers' don't really see anything wrong with the villains' motives. They probably also think they are still in the subverting expectations is cool phase
@@Tony_409 Interesting point. I hadn't thought about how writers and directors have to go through their own stages of maturity and growing up, to get beyond the stage of "Waahh! I'm a genius and you're all just too dumb to recognize it!"
It´s postmodernist writing. In the sense of: There is no good nor evil, just power play and interests. It SOUNDS good on paper. But when you have a story where there is so much moral ambiguity going on, then suspense and emotional entertainment suffers. It´s an old problem, and the major reason why so many novel writers are failing COMMERCIALLY. Now they get literally laurels, but have no readers, in most cases. It is how people in the literary departments in university want to have literature to be like. Nothing is really defined, everything is in flux, a character is multi-dimensional. Like i said, it sounds good on paper, but when you get down to it, it generally leads to a loss of entertainment and suspense.
The funny thing is that Sauron did try to help the old man (albeit mildly) when warning for him to “hold on to something” only to betray him. Talk about mixed signals.
Gil-Galad: "you would have Sauron ride you to victory?" Galadriel: "ohhh yes, yes, YESSS..! I mean, I was deceived." Fanfic would be an improvement. And wouldn't cost $735m.
Not knowing the lore probably helps a lot. Because knowing what Tolkien's version of the story was gives you something spectacular to compare it to, and something to lament.
They Turned Sauron into Julius Jesus. This was Sauron at his Absolute PEAK in power btw... He should've been able to swing him arm and wipe out that whole room of Orcs... I really don't know why he's trying to Appeal to the orcs better nature and convince them to follow him.... He's supposed to DOMINATE them.... not appeal to them...
Anyone else think it's a bit too on the nose, and alarming, that not only is the vast majority of content coming from Hollywood trying to portray traditional villains are misunderstood heroes and all traditional heroes with morals as villains, or trying to diminish their legacy, but these villains usually espout currently topical views? And that most of that majority is targeted towards children? This seriously might be the cleanest coup in history.
It's modern story telling, to blame for your Sauron confusion. We aren't allowed to have good and evil anymore. ALL bad guys have to have an underlying reason for their evil ways. Conversely the good guys have to be a bit shady too.
As a huge Tolkien fan, I've never watched any of this show. I just randomly watch videos like this to see if there is still a fire burning within the dumpster.
at first honestly, I thought that the Sauron scene was a guy pretending to be Sauron because, the real Sauron is too powerful to bother to try and convince orcs or be challenged by them. but no, its him and he gets punked by 12 orcs, meanwhile hobo-Gandalf can make sandstorm tornados, but the dark lord Sauron is helpless in the face of 12 orcs, so stupid.
Tolkien’s origin story for the orks was that Soron grabbed some elves and mutilated and twisted them into a mutant race of rabid killers, and those are Orks. So Soron should have total control over the Orks.
The most charitable interpretation is that he's MIA and presumed dead, and that maybe he'll turn up alive again in Season 4. Another shocking melodramatic twist, brought to you by Days of Our Elves!
Because they can only conceive of marriage as a set of chains placed upon the wife/servitude to a male and cannot stomach such a 'limitation' on their self-insert totem character.
The thing that irritates me most about the elves is that they're supposed to be beings of timeless/youthful beauty. And yet, they have at least two elves who are middle aged. I'm also personally peeved that they went out of their way to find an actress who bares a resemblance to Cate Blanchett, but couldn't find an actor who bares a resemblance to Hugo Weaving. Also, Orcs having loving family units - wtf is that all about?!
The only old looking elf (and the only one with a beard) in the lore is Cirdan (bc he's the oldest elf in middle earth), so they got that part right. The rest? Garbage.
Alteori, Please just buy the books The Simarillion, The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings Trilogy. They read fast and the Appendices by Tolkien explain the notable events of the Second Age. Quit looking to Amazon’s “Rings of Power” to be consistent with Tolkien’s works because it isn’t.
And Children of Hurin + Book of Lost Tales series (12 book in total in that series). Or just listen to the audiobooks. Andy Serkis reading it. Begin it with the Hobbit and LOTR, those are more easier to read. Just, please for the Gods leave this garbage that these people making.
I burst out laughing when Elrond told G-lad, "You would have Sauron ride you to victory?!" or however he said it. These writers are cooked OR they are specifically, once AGAIN, making a TV show with an established fanbase and lore for the scourge of fantasy epics... The god damn SHIPPERS.
1500 Second Age: The Ñoldor under Celebrimbor are instructed by Sauron, beginning of the forging of the Rings of Power. Galadriel is in no way involved, she has been in Lotholorien since 1350! 1600 Second Age: The One Ring is forged. Celebrimbor perceives Sauron's treachery. 1693 Second Age: Three Rings are hidden This show is absolute garbage and an insult to Tolkien and Lord of the Rings!
Honestly from a pure writing viewpoint there are many fundamental flaws that even amateur writers don't make and it drives me insane that one billion dollars was given to two showrunners who I doubt could even write the hungry caterpillar yet alone a Tolkien epic. Characters acting out of character and established motives so that next plot point can happen is like every two lines of dialogue with this show. To add to the first point, huge lack of common sense. For instance, so Galadriel told Celebrimbor goes "hey ya know that guy I brought with me. Don't talk to him." Celebrimbor is not going to ask why? I understand she might be ashamed about it, but you can do that and STILL TELL HIM THAT HE HELPED THE ONE ENEMY OF MIDDLE EARTH! Like if I helped a bad guy plant a dooms day device, I can feel ashamed about while still warning everyone to flee. OR Gil-galad, how about you send more than a single messenger ya know considering it's highly important. It's only stating that the biggest threat to middle earth is walking around. You legit walking muppet of a king, how does anyone respect you? Zero punishments for any action. Okay so Elrond goes against Gil-galad and... there is no consequences for that? If gil galad thought those rings would save middle earth and the elves and than someone just takes them... when they come back or tell you the rings are gone, you're not going to like to do anything. Far too many contrivances - Galadriel just gets her ring because it rolled down a staircase. Rings got saved because the water blew a bubble. Btw Cirdan and Galadriel in lore were gifted the rings by Gil-Galad. He didn't drop them. Why would he ever give his version of Galadriel a ring of power? Characters have instant tp abilities again making the world feel small... for instance Galadriel and Elrond were having a horse chase from Eregion to Lindon... they were chasing after each other the entire time which is what a journey of days? and yet somehow Elrond got a message for a squad from Lindon to intercept... How? Did he have pissing messenger pigeon shoved up his backside? Sauron also goes to Mordor... before tping back to Celebrimbor and not stopping to think, Oh maybe Galadriel told them I was Sauron... nah that thought just didn't enter his mind. His great deceiver title doesn't really hold any weight when everyone knows what he is up to. Finally just on a sane plot level Tolkien made it clear that no-one knew Sauron was Annatar because well as you can see in ROP the entire story now makes every good character out to be complete and utter moron. Although tbf Sauron is also below 1 IQ in this story.
Sauron being unable to concinve and command the Orcs is just incredibly dumb given that his whole character is about being the great deceiver and manipulator who can invade, twist, and control even the strongest of minds. He should be the most charismatic and smartest person in the room with the loyalty of the Orcs unquestioned. But no. For some reason, we gotta make Sauron likable and flawed or smth!? Oh noooo, poor Sauron get's betrayed! He just wants world peace and to look out for the Orcs! Nooooo
I’m confused as to why Orcs suddenly started clapping cheeks with each other and it somehow worked, making love for them canon wise would just be banging stones and throwing mud together with no actual offspring being produced whatsoever.
RIGHT!!!!!! I asked my husband and he claims they've been around long enough that they are their own race but........ that....... Bruh i don't even know
Don't confuse standard orcs with Uruk kai which are artificial half breeds made by Saruman. The bad part in this show is the notion of an orc family the reason you don't see female orcs is they are kept as brood mares in caves and pits realistically they would be raped and fed then killed when they grow weak or old, nothing more.
@12:50 In the lore, the World also known as Arda was created by an all powerful entity known as Eru iluvatar. He is basically God in this universe. Like the Christian God, he had angelic spirits that are known as the Ainur. These Ainur following Eru's command sang everything about the universe and the world(Arda). Eru then showed them visions of the world they sang about and commanded their songs to become physical and the universe and the world came to exist. But it was formless and empty. Some of the Ainur, the most powerful among them were charged with entering into the world to fashion it as they had seen in the vision. These Ainur that came to build the world are Called the Valar. These Valar are just like the Greek gods. God (Valar)of air, God (Valar)of the earth etc. Later, other less powerful Ainur came into the world to aid the Valar in governing it. These lesser Ainur are known as Maiar and Sauron (Originally Mairon)was one of them, and he was originally pure but got corrupted by an Evil Valar named Melkor(later Morgoth) Melkor is the most powerful of the Ainur and he is this world's version of Lucifer. The wizards and Balrogs are also Maiar. Sauron was the Chief commander of Melkor(Morgoth) who was the first all powerful dark Lord who was later defeated and cast out of the world by the other Valar.
Orcs were designed by Melkor to be the minions of a dark lord. They’re hardwired to be controlled by someone like Sauron. At the end of Return of the King, when Sauron was destroyed, many of the orcs simply dropped dead from the shock of the absence of his will in their minds. He doesn’t need to give speeches to control orcs. They can’t disobey. They can’t rebel against him. They certainly have no means to kill freaking Sauron or even cause him any significant damage. This show is stupid. The writers of this show are not writers.
Alteori you're not missing anything. They wrote this show just like how you're taking it or understanding it. This is because the two guys who wrote this are trash writers and before this show they have half a writing credit for a trash Star Trek show. That's it. They are talentless and have no idea what Tolkien was saying in his books. This show is made for no one, not fans and not the general audience. They think they wrote Shakespeare but instead they wrote a terrible fan fiction.
he didn't really die they just killed his body, which for a mortal would be the end. I love the "He deceived me" but like then she still didn't say anything after she found out.
Sweetie... I love your videos, so PLEASE don't ever compare the absolute mind-bending STUPIDITY of the Rings of Power with the Peter Jackson LOTR movies. If you're truly curious, there are VERY GOOD reasons why they weren't able to simply call the Eagles and get a ride to Mordor, not the least of which is that Sauron would have had them destroyed if they got even remotely close to Mordor. They only flew to pickup Frodo & Sam at the end so easily because it was a very short distance and Sauron was dead. The only reason Frodo & Sam were able to get into Mordor is because Aragorn distracted Sauron.
What should have happened... Elrond: That Halbrand guy was actually Sauron. Galadriel's poor decision-making and narcissism have allowed Sauron to survive. The 3 Rings are now in jeopardy! High King Gil Galad: Thank you, Elrond. Galadriel, you are under arrest. You will be on the next ship to the Grey Havens, where you will be placed under arrest and will never return. (Elven Guards disarm and knock Galadriel out, tying her to the ship and sail off to the Grey Havens)
ROP's Galadriel is an angry bitter revenge seeking psycho. She would hunt down Sauron to the ends of the earth without caring for her companions, constantly fighting with her friend and powerful authorities and showing disrespect to them, and thinking she's better than everyone else. I bet even the Dark Galadriel in LOTR movie is more nicer than her.
12:48 The Valar are angelic beings in Tolkien’s lore that serve Eru Iluvatar, the God of Arda in Tolkien’s work. Sauron is one of the Maiar (albeit a villainous one) which are lesser than the Valar in power but still very strong.
I read the king as follows: He is very disappointed in Galadrial and he simply wants to hear the words from her own mouth. Alteori repeats, why did Elrond not tell him, and again. But I would say it can make sense in the dialogue, just like when parents are shocked about their child's deeds, already know or suspect the truth, but then again want to hear it and see their child's reaction - to be more disappointed afterwards and see if it changes the story.
After that dialogue, the king says argghhhhh (could still fit with my interpretation), but Elrond seems to be shocked, like Alteori pointed out. So, the show writers already destroy the point I would give them. Yeah, modern writing.
Turning Galadriel into a violent psychopath really looks like something done intentionally. Because she was Tolkien's favorite character. They did it on purpose. Because they hate Tolkien.
I don’t understand why so many writers nowadays insist on making every single villain sympathetic, redeemable or good-all-along. I miss good old fashioned pure evil villains. So many writers seem to believe that moral ambiguity and humanizing villains automatically make these characters more interesting, but I honestly think it can have opposite effect sometimes. RoT Sauron is boring compared to OG Sauron from the books and movie trilogy.
They identify with the villains, and see the idea of acting with moral rectitude as an impossibility rather than a target to be aimed for, so heroic ideals must be discarded (since that holds up an unpleasant mirror to their own moral turpitude) whilst the villains must be 'humanised' because by doing so they can excuse themselves for the many dismal failings within their own lives/hollywood community...
@@ssharp755 Well said. I don’t know about most people, but I honestly don’t care if characters are nothing like me (in terms of appearance, culture or otherwise). There’s a sort of narcissism to insisting on seeing a reflection of one’s self in every piece of media. Modern Hollywood writers hold heroism in contempt, while romanticizing vice. I’m sick of fantasy being ruined by their ideology.
Let’s all take a moment to realize that the opening of this season entirely erases the need for Sauron to even create the One Ring. He did so so he could come back should his physical form ever be destroyed. According to this show, he could always do that if he just ate some rats and a peasant woman. If only Tolkien had known. 🤷🏻♀️
@@stewarttomkinson3356 the original orcs were. Tolkien struggled with an explanation for how they reproduced that fit with his morality (evil can't create life, but also a race of sentient beings doomed for no fault of their own doesn't work). However, that's the deep end of a philosophical pool and these writers would drown in a puddle so they should have just kept away from the question altogether.
@@tayh.6235evil can’t create life but it can corrupt it. Also they would just not be punished in the afterlife for their deeds if they are just being forced to serve evil.
Hmm. Interesting problem. I suppose my solution would have been to create a species of…. Well, the equivalent of monkeys or proto-humans/elves/whatever that Melkor corrupted into Orcs. Perhaps a non-mammalian version that laid eggs or something to get around the reproduction angle. But Tolkien probably have our level of evolutionary knowledge to solve the Orc problem with.
2:29, The irony of something like Legend Of Vox Machina, a series inspired by a Dungeons & Dragons livestream, a game inspired partly by Tolkien's work, managed to be a better fantasy series than Rings Of Power. Not to say it's more faithful to Tolkien's specific vision of whimsical adventure and biblical war drama (19:18, complete with a greedy angel, but to clarify, he can't alter reality, just induce illusions with telepathy, along with some telekinetic and elemental powers, which he still could've used to defend himself or dominate his followers), but it actually cares about making a decent story with decent characters that anyone regardless of their experience with fantasy or Dungeons & Dragons can potentially get into, knowing the lore and game references just being an added bonus.
Sauron should have complete control over the orcs at this point. The orcs are just mutilated elves creates for one purpose and that’s to serve the forces of evil. Sauron didn’t make the orcs, his master Morgoth did but he has been defeated at this point so Sauron is the next guy up. Whats crazy is how in a show called “rings of power” they get everything wrong about the “Rings of Power”. The 3 elf rings were made by Cemlibrimbor when he started to distrust Annatar (Sauron in disguise) which lead to Sauron torturing and killing him when he wouldn’t tell him any information about who wielded them. I highly recommend reading or watching lore videos this Age in middle cause it will make your head spin with how much they really either didn’t do their homework or just didn’t care.
Also, in terms of Sauron as a character he always thought he was doing good in his eyes and didn’t view himself as evil. He was all about control, thus his obsession with the “Rings of Power” and bending all the kings of the dwarves and men to his will. This show sucks lol
Also... Galadriel is not supposed to be involved at all. 1350 Second Age: Galadriel immigrates to Lothlorien with her husband, Celeborn, and daughter, Celebrian. The forging of Rings of Power occurred 150 years later...
You cant take the eagle and fly to the mountain lol. The skies over Mordor are full of fellbeasts and giant bats. Thos flying things the nazguls used in the movies. Those flying dragon fish things. They would destroy any eagle. Its why they were bred, Sauron didnt want eagles to spy on him.
Rings of power has nothing to do with Lord of the Rings lore. They took designs from the movies, 5 lines of the story from the books and also names of characters and locations and made this fan fiction.
1:22:56 What the hell...? Are the writers serious?! They have a Native American-looking guy who looks like he's not even wearing a costume! I loved the casting approach Peter Jackson took for the trilogy. All the elves were models--tall, slender. They all of them looked ethereal. Which created the on-set joke from the makeup and wardrobe dept: "They're the most beautiful people we've ever seen. We're sick of looking at them. lol" Given their fancy attire, I'd say they're noble people, not elves. Or cosplayers.
Yes, Orcs are essentially a weapon, who’s only desire is to destroy and serve their dark lords. Even if they wanted to defy Sauron and/or Morgoth(the previous manager), these being are powerful, godlike even. Even Sauron’s voice is capable of making Saruman The White tremble like fish bait’s day 1 in Prison. I’m sure he has a list of more feats from the novels that will never be addressed in this horrendous show.
Your comment about if he is ever even dead, is actually relevant to the end of Lord of the rings, lol. Even after the destruction of the ring, he wasn’t actually dead, he was just an incredibly weak and formless spirit that could do nothing but whisper or something like that. I figured if that was a direct action of the loss of his ring since he put so much of his power in it, or if the Valar also had some hand in his punishment. Regardless, you were on point in that he would be incredibly difficult to kill, and pretty much impossible by the hand of any mortal man. You would probably need someone like the Valar, Eru Ilúvatar (who could easily destroy him), or a creature like Ungoliant who came from the primordial void, and was even a danger to Morgoth at one point.
I appreciate that. I'm just being myself LOL. I know it turns some people off but I wanna have fun and mostly be honest with my thoughts. Thanks for stopping by 😅
Thank you for the updates, I still have a morbid curiosity for learning how badly theyre butchering this show. I watched up to S1E3 and was done 🥲 I love Tolkien too much, it would break my heart to see this dumpster fire any closer.
You're correct about the orcs and DOUBLY so for Sauron. The orcs need a master to serve to give them purpose because they were SPECIFICALLY created to be weapons and Sauron being the dark lord, his power alone would be enough to bend them to his will. He wouldn't have to say a single word to persuade them. He would simply command them and they'd do his bidding.
If you want more information on lore from Lord of the Rings I would recommend Nerd of the Rings. He does really good lore video about characters and events that take place in Tolkien's world. And from his episode breakdowns about season 2 of Rings of Power, he is not a fan of it. He has a open mind and try to find good things about it, but has a lot of things to say.
The Valar are like the Demigod rulers of Arda (the planet which Middle Earth exists on). They are the most powerful of the Myar (like angels with shapeshifting powers, the wizards, sauron and the balrogs are all Myar) created and appointed to rule by Illuvitar (literally god, no I mean it, the Christian God himself). Also, if this was Sauron from the books, he would have shapeshifted into something that could devastate the entire room. Hell, the entire castle
"He looks even better dirty when he's at deaths door" 🤣
💀💀💀💀 BUT HE DOES
Elrond looks gaunt in 1:10:50
I love your two contrasting perspectives. It's must funner watching than the show.
@@TheNuclearGeek 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@Alteori Would love to see Alteori on FNT - she and Chrissie will definitely bond!
The tagline "At least it's better than The Acolyte" is like giving a starving person grass and saying "It's better than nothing"
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 Ok maybe .... yeah. Lol
The grass is also dry, but freshly dipped in piss.
Takes me back to my childhood.
@@kaykutcher2103 😂😂😂😂
Proto-Sauron's big mistake was in trying to rally the orcs with a speech, instead of a group singalong about "The Power of MANYYYYY....."
He was trying to convince the orcs to vote for him instead of just ordering them because he dominates them🤷♂️
Sauron doesn’t have someone crown him I’m sorry lol he puts that crown on himself.
Should have done “Be Prepared”; the music alone would’ve had the Orcs follow him to the bitter end.
Now that you mention it, that would have probably worked... "the POWER of..."
"Wait, did you say POWER?
"Uh, yeah?..."
"Sold, let's do this!"
Maybe they would respond better to some kind of African music? Because. You know.
"The power of ONE, over MANNNY..."
‘He deceived me’
*GALADRIEL AND GIL-GALAD WERE THE ONLY 2 ELVES NOT TO BE DECEIVED IN THE BOOKS!*
Well tbf they haven't stuck to lore anywhere else so far so why bother now?
The fact that the elves know of his plans for the rings is just insane world breaking plot wise.
Someone made a good point to mention she said "he deceived me," vs "I was deceived." The former takes the focus off of her and on sauron instead of her taking responsibility for her recklessness and stupidity lol.
They went with their shitty fanfic so far now, that they outright contradicting what little of the lore exits for that period and those events.
Being bad was clearly not enough for this show, writers are clearly making huge effort to ruin existing lore.
He betray me. He didn't keep his promise. He trick me and I don't care anymore
The show writers have decided to ignore that.
In LOTR, the eagles can't be commanded to do anything - they're not trained pets, they're almosot god-tier creatures who have their own purposes (like Tom Bombadil). I'm sure Gandalf would've wanted their help at the battle of Pelennor Fields too, but they only show up when they want to. Not all beings in the story want to get involved in war. I mean, theoretically Eru Iluvatar could've just teleported the One Ring to Mount Doom. The eagles disinterest isn't a plot hole, it's consistent with the world. LOTR has one of the tightest stories and lore; Tolkien wouldn't have had included such a glaring oversight.
Then there's the fact that the Eagles were powerful, and like all powerful individuals that power made them susceptible to the rings influence. They wouldn't have carried it for the same reason as Gandalf.
The eagles understood it was a test for men to go through. They helped when they could. And by no means would they bnother with something like a cornitation.
Plus is everyone forgetting the nazgul and their drakes.
@@JusticeArtorius Yeah agreed. Dont get me wrong the eagles are cool, but they would have been utterly slaughtered at the battle for pelennor fields. If not by arrows, they would have been ripped apart by the drakes.
@@JusticeArtorius -drakes- fellbeasts
Sauron, the dark lord who commands an army of pure evil creatures whose soul creation is to kill and destroy. Turned into a joke. I just can't.
And they have little babies
Sauron could control the valgrogs who are like demons in that world, but in here he can't even get the orcs to listing to him.
To be fair... Morgoth was the biggest evil. Sauron was just his 2nd in command
But that still doesn't excuse the fact that he can't just... flex terror on the orcs like he did a literal ship destroying in seconds creature, the Watcher in the Water, or the Balrogs... yea they just want "hunky Sauron" not an actual dark lord
Sauron, the greatest necromancer among the Dark Lord's folk; Sauron, the sorcerer who composed *Ash Nazg durbatulûk, ash Nazg gimbatul* ..., Sauron, the Lieutenant of Angband who was in charge of completing the dreadful "research and development project" that lead to the creation of the first hordes of Orcs... depicted as a boring and fake mortal politician that was forced to negotiate with the low infantry...🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️.
@kyze8284 I thought Sauron was just a lieutenant in Morgoth's army that is way lower rank than 2nd in command 🤔.
During a fight with a deific wolf hound, Sauron shapeshifted first into a werewolf, then a giant serpent, then a number of other horrific creatures before being forced to flee in the shape of a giant vampire bat. In what universe would a bunch of orcs have the power to overthrow him?
Regarding your question about whether the orcs are being used as allegory for real life issues -- yes, they are. Somehow, in the past two decades or so, orcs became an allegory for black people ... which doesn't make any god damn sense, because in every universe that has orcs, black people also exist.
Everything bad is an allegory for black people because apparently black people are horrible in the eyes of race baiters.
Orcs are inhuman creatures. Its insulting to any human race to compare them to. That bigoty right there.
Thing is, other modern fantasy projects use discrimination themes in their works in regards to the different species, usually grounding them in the histories of some species having malevolent cultures and histories, leading to prejudice against them, like Orcs or Goblins, even when individuals from those species are different from the rest, usually being portrayed as being removed from their species' generally primitive cultures and being raised in more stable conditions among other civilized species.
That same logic doesn't entirely apply in Lord Of The Rings, as species like Orcs are within the context of the lore essentially designed to be "predisposed to evil", or rather, to savagery and malice. It's more than cultural limitations, it's almost physiological to a degree.
But again, that's only in Tolkien's vision, and this show obviously takes more than a few liberties with that lore, which would work if the stories were coherent and well executed (like how Gollum is a sympathetic and tragic character despite ultimately being an antagonist).
@@callmev3531who does??? No ip has orcs as black people. Modern word gibberish bullshit.
@robertbryant4669 it's like they forgot humans exist in Mumakan. Where the oliphaunts come from. But hey...why use actual black people? Let's just randomly sprinkle diversity among orcs.
These writers.....wtf
A drop of lore; Sauron worked for Morgoth, who created the orcs. He used elves and dark magic to create TAINTED and EVIL creatures. They were bound to his will, and later to the will of Sauron. The orcs relished in all things violent and evil.
Thanks, it’s been many years since I read the books and I was starting to wonder if I was misremembering. The first breed of Orc were Elves twisted by dark magic and the later versions were basically artificially created, engineered to be biological weapons.
Either way they were never meant to be a real species.
As a black male who has never read the books, I am thoroughly offended by your knowledgeable lore drop.
Extra Credits was right
/s jfc
@@SaiDeLaRairight how dare they be more knowledgeable about the books than us
Alteori, Galadriel is married to Celeborn, she only mentions him ONCE in the entirety of the show from the last season. Elrond and Galadriel are actually mother and son in law, Elrond is married to Galadriel's daughter Celebrian
Elrond does not marry Celebrian until the beginning of the Third Age. Though Celebrian was supposed to have been born near the beginning of the Second Age.
@@mjbull5156chances are we won't get to see Celeborn at all in this series. Imagine Maury, "Halbrand YOU ARE THE FATHER"! No wait, better not.
The fast travel points in this show are insane for someone who actually knows the map of Middle Earth. For context, Sauron was near the top of the map when he was assassinated, then he was in the Southlands by the time he took human form. Then, him on the ship with the old man and his people is almost the equivalent of all of Frodo's entire journey in all three of the Lord of the Rings movies from the South Land's. There are months of travel between these plot points; pretty much there are months of travel between every location they use in this show.
This show gets Sauron and the orcs SO wrong, it’s actually hurts lol. Sauron would rule over the orcs with an iron fist. He would never, ever, be giving a speech to them in some room, likes he’s trying to sell them all a new Hoover vacuum lol. So stupid. One of his biggest defining traits is that he desires order above all else… HIS order. Anyone who gets in the way of that would be immediately put to death…
That’s why he makes the rings for all the powerful peoples of each of the races… is to put the wearers under his power and influence, so that there is no one left powerful enough to defy him. Which is also why he overlooked the hobbits… he thought they were powerless, weak and unimportant beings.
Really, portraying Sauron as a sly, weaselly commander who operates by hints and suggestions to keep the orcs whipped into a frenzy would have been more interesting AND more faithful to Tolkien's tone. But that wouldn't give us a Brooding Bad Boy for the Twitterati to lust over.
If Sauron were to ever give a speech to the orcs, it would be to threaten them into doing what he wanted. Sauron was aware of how sloppy and devious the orcs were, and we even see in the books how some of the orcs actively plotted to abandon Sauron and go criming off on their own. His only direct interaction with them would have been to instill fear and order, not inspiration and hope. Imagine the Eye of Sauron in Peter Jackson's film giving his army a pep talk, the orcs probably would have torn down Barad-Dur themselves lol.
So they humanized the Orcs now.
Yeah I'm.... I'm a bit confused on that lol
Are you kidding me? 😂
They humanised them and make them white in the same time that is just ridiculous @@Mikael22-18 consider the politics
Look, it’s the Tolkien Moral Dilemma again
@@Mikael22-18 How would they be free from the influence from the Dark Lord? Their entire existence is because of the Dark Lord to begin with....
Also Tolkien never said that in his letters.
Yeah Tolkien as a devoted Catholic would want you to feel sorry for a literal demon that's why he had a married woman lust for him....
I hate this world
its an abomination
Alteori: "I like this show." Doesn't remember the other main character's name.
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Just one thing to clarify. The eagles of the original trilogy could not fly them into mordor. With the eye of Sauron watching, he could have and would gave seen them miles away before they got there and it would have been disastrous. The eagles would never do such a thing and Gandalf would never ask them to. The only reason they flew in at the end is because the ring was destroyed along with the dark influences around the land.
And they provided air support for mankind during a time when Sauron could not respond to the eagles directly.
YES! Thank you! I don't get why ppl keep being confused about this...
Some lore context.
Iluvatar (God basically) created the Valar (lesser gods) and their servants, the Maiar (pretty much angels).
Sauron is a maiar that was under the service of Melkor, a valar that became evil.
So yeah, he is a powerful and supernatural being, yet in this show he gets killed by regular orcs at the beggining of the season.
Well, he still can die physically no matter shows lack of Lore understanding. In real lore his body died when numenor sank so he can be destroyed by same things that would kill regular men. Normal Elf killed Gothmog the lord of Balrog who was also a Maiar. And those Balrogs were made Obsolete by creation of Dragons because Melkor saw that Balrogs are not enough. Power scaling isn't as easy Valar>Maiar>everyone else
@@michaelstark8720 yeah but what numenor sank was the wrath of the Valar itself. Was it really a normal elf that killed the Gothmog? In most cases the Power scaling Valar>Maiar>everyone else is correct.
@@PandaPanda-ud4ne Yes it was normal elf Ecthelion and if Valar are the strongest, why didn't Melkor went alone against army of elves? he can't die because he is Valar! Right? Maiar Thuringwetil died when Sauron and Huan fought in Isle of werewolves and of all creatures Morgoth had, Carcharoth was one who guarded the gates who was normal werewolf raised by Morgoth. The fact is that Maiar spirits are not that powerful really They were created by Eru to serve Valar. They are powerful mostly because of their age, not their inherit power. The moment they are placed on stage, they can die same as other species can. And Wrath of Valar make Numenor sank. That's it. What they would make special curse just to get sauron's body but he then latter still returns and wage war on middle earth?
I don't see "angel gets murked by mortals" as an issue, considering Christians believe the same thing to be possible, hence Lot pimping out his daughters to the townsfolk to protect two angels being seen as a good thing.
@@cy-one No. I have talked about this to an orthodox jew, who read the scene in the original, and is also watching a lot of rabbi videos, and she told me, that generally, Lot is considered to be evil for pimping out his daughters to "protect" the angels. And the logic is solid, since there is no way any of the townsfolk, even in mass, could touch the two angels. Lot should have known this. Lot only wanted to score points. And it went badly.
Knowing the lore and watching the rings of power... its like having seen the Mona Lisa in a museum then coming back the next week to see that an artist has been brought in to
"Improve it"
But don't you think it's better with cans of tomato soup splashed on it?
@@JoeSyxpack Hell no... that's a waste of good tomato soup, at least throw minestrone at it... no one likes minestrone.
I feel like they should just put the series out of its misery
Why did they spend such a ridiculous amount of money on it though 😂😂
@@Alteori besides it’s not really good for business when you’re constantly dumping money and not making any profit out of it
You mean out of OUR misery
@@Alteori so they could be right and annoy the critics, this is ego
Contract obligations dont allowed them to do so... However it is at least reliving to know rhey are bleeding money over this and will NEVER make the money they spent just for the rights of this stuff.
You know the real BS thing? Tolkien HATED allegory, like REALLY hated it.
Yeah he did lol. He told people on multiple occasions not to read that deep into LofTRs plot being an allegory for anything. He was just like, "Dudes, it started as a mythological retelling of Britain's history. It's got some themes going on, but it's not any deeper than that. Don't be reading into my plots and trying to find hidden meanings. I just wanted to write some cool shit."
@@TheTytoGaurdian In those exact words, right?
Orcs were supposed to be living weapons under the control of the Dark Lords, but know they want Sauron to be a revolutionary leader?!
She’s the villain and Sauron is a failed Venon rip off
I'm getting more Satan from Devilman Crybaby from this interpretation of Sauron allying himself with Orcs, both Sauron and Satan being angelic beings that rebelled against other angels and deities with an army of monsters (Sauron with Orcs and Satan with demons, which aren't corrupted angels, but these aliens that used to live on Earth).
Main difference is Sauron in the books was mainly greedy, but Show Sauron and Satan see the monster species they command as "pure beings" that deserve dominion over the world over the "flawed and imperfect" civilized species they come into conflict with.
Orcs unionised 😆😆😆
*Communism detected on MiddleEarthern soil.*
Sauron *does his speech*
Orc 1: "So, when do we start slaughtering people? My sword is itching."
Orc 2: "Quiet, meathead. Don't interrupt the Boss when he's talking."
Sauron: "....and we will create a new order."
Orc 1: "But....I don't really like order. I like slaughtering enemies and hearing them beg for mercy."
Orc 2: "Yeah, this kinda sucks."
Adar is a character made for the show. The scene were Sauron got Julius Caesar'd by the Orcs never happened in the books.
Sauron would have used his voice to command the orcs to stop trying to kill him. Even outside the books, this show is not consistent with anything. The orcs are not that bright to understand what this phoney Sauron was trying to say to begin with.
That's because Sauron is basically a god in the books lol. The idea that he was overthrown by a bunch of orcs is soooo stupidly funny. Book Sauron would just like look at the orcs that were rebelling and kill them with a wave of his hand. Or he'd turn into a werewolf and use them all as chew toys. Like what are you doing show?! 🤣
@@TheTytoGaurdianthe orcs wouldn’t even retaliate against their dark masters, they were created to be obedient to them
@dysfunctionalthor4719 Yeah, there's that too lol. This show just isn't interested in following the lore.
@@TheTytoGaurdian and interestingly enough the Shadow of Mordor games portray orcs and their culture better than RoP despite also not being true to lore, we don’t really know much about their culture other than they’re built as killing machines who obey anyone clearly more powerful but at least those games made it somewhat creative and true to who they are compared to whatever this show did
Nobody wanted Rings of Power, needs to be ended for good.
They have five seasons green lit. Unfortunately.
@@maiafay I'm hoping they will come out with a revised Season 3 Is Final Season plan "to wrap everything up." It will let them slink away with fewer losses while still not admitting they screwed up.
@@maiafayNo they have plans for 50 hours of episodes. Not all five seasons are greenlit.
@@maiafay Which no one asked for.
Yeah. Let's cancel everything you don't like.
I miss when creatures could be evil just because they are.
Yeah now we're in the time of someone else made me evil. Sympathize with me amd root for me. Evil is in the eye of the beholder
I miss that too and villains who just love to cause misery towards other people.
Bu-bu-but POSTMODERNISM says evil and good are interchangeable!
@@idolsrule4678 What these big studios don't realize is that their output is too. I can change the channel, switch to a different service, pop in another DVD.
Sauron:
- For I seek new kind of power, not of the flesh but over flesh
Alrighty then, let's jot it down as "in the second age, Sauron got Alzheimer's and forgot he's a Maya, a creature that cares about flesh no more than clothes"
That's a moot issue. He doesn't need control over his own flesh, but over that of others, so him being a Maia has nothing to do with it.
People are comparing turds and debating on which one stinks the most.
welcome to the current state of media.
@@NoahGooder Mediocrity is everywhere in media. Quick buck..Dont work for quality. It shows. Did amazon think by ripping off the "Lord of the Rings" this would have produced money? No. We are litterally at a point where unfettered greed and Uber lazy effort replaces good craft and real effort. Its really not that hard to produce good meida. It takes time and planning with people who actually want to produce a good product and not rip the consumer off. I think that era is long gone, at least on a large scale.
I guess Sauron forgot that he could just snap his finger and the orcs would immediately obey and worship him.
You are 100% right about the orcs. They are just weapons.
i found it quite funny, how pinpoint accurate alteori was with this, even if not intended.
I’ve noticed this with fanfic writers regarding criticism. They cry when receiving it and take it personally. I think that’s a problem with professional writers now as well. No one can handle feedback anymore, and so the newer shows are rife with plot holes and lack of logic. No one checks them in the writing room. It’s one big circle jerk. And then when the audience does, they can’t handle it. There’s no excuse for the lack of professionalism in their production.
That's why they use DEI as a safety net: whenever someone gives them criticism of any kind, they can safely play the race card and pat themselves on the back.
And when the criticism really starts to damage them, they play the r*cism and s*xism cards to demonise unhappy fans and avoid any accountability. As well as a tactic for bad writers to avoid criticism, it's the perfect insurance for corporations to allow them to keep selling mediocre content.
If Sauron can turn into goo and eventually eat people, why doesn't he just hang around and eat that guy that betrayed him?
Because the writers of this show are stupid.
The Dark Lords of California shall never make us kneel. What can one man do against such reckless hate..
"Hunky Sauron"?
These people are lost and sick.
No shame on the actor, who seems to be Hollywood-standard handsome.
This is just Twilight, for people who liked Twilight, any one who gives AF about anything Tolkin wrote can't seriously like this.
The amount of stories coming out of Hollywood where the villains are being portrayed with heroic qualities and heroes with villianas properties...WTF are these writers trying to say?
"I don't know the lore," neither do these writers. That's why it's so confusing, because it doesn't align with any of the lore.
The show doesn't even follow what it establishes. Like it's established that Sauron was this kind of weak guy that was Caesared by orcs, was goo for who knows how long, then became Halbrand. So was he stronger before becoming this unimportant little potato of man orcs could take out? What happened to him?
How exactly was he a threat if you've established him to be kind of a b?
Don't know, and neither do the writers.
Probably because the writers' don't really see anything wrong with the villains' motives. They probably also think they are still in the subverting expectations is cool phase
@@Tony_409 Interesting point. I hadn't thought about how writers and directors have to go through their own stages of maturity and growing up, to get beyond the stage of "Waahh! I'm a genius and you're all just too dumb to recognize it!"
It´s postmodernist writing. In the sense of: There is no good nor evil, just power play and interests. It SOUNDS good on paper. But when you have a story where there is so much moral ambiguity going on, then suspense and emotional entertainment suffers. It´s an old problem, and the major reason why so many novel writers are failing COMMERCIALLY. Now they get literally laurels, but have no readers, in most cases. It is how people in the literary departments in university want to have literature to be like. Nothing is really defined, everything is in flux, a character is multi-dimensional. Like i said, it sounds good on paper, but when you get down to it, it generally leads to a loss of entertainment and suspense.
Yeah. Same vibes and expectations. The CW.
@@briancurtis6022 As a writer, i have experienced that, lol.
The funny thing is that Sauron did try to help the old man (albeit mildly) when warning for him to “hold on to something” only to betray him.
Talk about mixed signals.
Gil-Galad: "you would have Sauron ride you to victory?"
Galadriel: "ohhh yes, yes, YESSS..! I mean, I was deceived."
Fanfic would be an improvement. And wouldn't cost $735m.
I am incredulous that was an actual line put in the show.
@@mjbull5156 these people were VERY well paid. It shows.
Not knowing the lore probably helps a lot. Because knowing what Tolkien's version of the story was gives you something spectacular to compare it to, and something to lament.
They Turned Sauron into Julius Jesus.
This was Sauron at his Absolute PEAK in power btw...
He should've been able to swing him arm and wipe out that whole room of Orcs...
I really don't know why he's trying to Appeal to the orcs better nature and convince them to follow him....
He's supposed to DOMINATE them.... not appeal to them...
Anyone else think it's a bit too on the nose, and alarming, that not only is the vast majority of content coming from Hollywood trying to portray traditional villains are misunderstood heroes and all traditional heroes with morals as villains, or trying to diminish their legacy, but these villains usually espout currently topical views? And that most of that majority is targeted towards children?
This seriously might be the cleanest coup in history.
Positive: it’s way better than the Acolyte.
Negative: it's still atrocious.
Hunky Sauron is the middle earth equivalent of "Hunky Stalin"
Che Guevara shirts.
It's modern story telling, to blame for your Sauron confusion. We aren't allowed to have good and evil anymore. ALL bad guys have to have an underlying reason for their evil ways. Conversely the good guys have to be a bit shady too.
IKR, it's very annoying
As a huge Tolkien fan, I've never watched any of this show. I just randomly watch videos like this to see if there is still a fire burning within the dumpster.
at first honestly, I thought that the Sauron scene was a guy pretending to be Sauron because, the real Sauron is too powerful to bother to try and convince orcs or be challenged by them. but no, its him and he gets punked by 12 orcs, meanwhile hobo-Gandalf can make sandstorm tornados, but the dark lord Sauron is helpless in the face of 12 orcs, so stupid.
Tolkien’s origin story for the orks was that Soron grabbed some elves and mutilated and twisted them into a mutant race of rabid killers, and those are Orks. So Soron should have total control over the Orks.
That was Morgoth, not Sauron. But yeah Sauron should still have control over them since Morgoth has been banished to the Void.
Wait, Celeborn WAS her husband?? He is still around!! Why the fuck do they feel the need to change the story like this???
Because they don't care about J.J.R. Tolkien's work, they just want their own ideas on screen.
The most charitable interpretation is that he's MIA and presumed dead, and that maybe he'll turn up alive again in Season 4. Another shocking melodramatic twist, brought to you by Days of Our Elves!
Because they can only conceive of marriage as a set of chains placed upon the wife/servitude to a male and cannot stomach such a 'limitation' on their self-insert totem character.
The thing that irritates me most about the elves is that they're supposed to be beings of timeless/youthful beauty. And yet, they have at least two elves who are middle aged. I'm also personally peeved that they went out of their way to find an actress who bares a resemblance to Cate Blanchett, but couldn't find an actor who bares a resemblance to Hugo Weaving.
Also, Orcs having loving family units - wtf is that all about?!
The only old looking elf (and the only one with a beard) in the lore is Cirdan (bc he's the oldest elf in middle earth), so they got that part right. The rest? Garbage.
Galadriel has been portrayed as a violent psychopath from the get-go. Once you accept that the show starts to make sense.
Alteori, Please just buy the books The Simarillion, The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings Trilogy. They read fast and the Appendices by Tolkien explain the notable events of the Second Age. Quit looking to Amazon’s “Rings of Power” to be consistent with Tolkien’s works because it isn’t.
And Children of Hurin + Book of Lost Tales series (12 book in total in that series). Or just listen to the audiobooks. Andy Serkis reading it. Begin it with the Hobbit and LOTR, those are more easier to read. Just, please for the Gods leave this garbage that these people making.
I burst out laughing when Elrond told G-lad, "You would have Sauron ride you to victory?!" or however he said it. These writers are cooked OR they are specifically, once AGAIN, making a TV show with an established fanbase and lore for the scourge of fantasy epics... The god damn SHIPPERS.
1500 Second Age: The Ñoldor under Celebrimbor are instructed by Sauron, beginning of the forging of the Rings of Power.
Galadriel is in no way involved, she has been in Lotholorien since 1350!
1600 Second Age: The One Ring is forged. Celebrimbor perceives Sauron's treachery.
1693 Second Age: Three Rings are hidden
This show is absolute garbage and an insult to Tolkien and Lord of the Rings!
If I don’t watch it, there is no ‘Rings of Power’ 🧘♀️
The rings of power in my house is the key chain thingy dad attached to the remotes we used to shut the rings of power off.
Honestly from a pure writing viewpoint there are many fundamental flaws that even amateur writers don't make and it drives me insane that one billion dollars was given to two showrunners who I doubt could even write the hungry caterpillar yet alone a Tolkien epic.
Characters acting out of character and established motives so that next plot point can happen is like every two lines of dialogue with this show.
To add to the first point, huge lack of common sense. For instance, so Galadriel told Celebrimbor goes "hey ya know that guy I brought with me. Don't talk to him." Celebrimbor is not going to ask why? I understand she might be ashamed about it, but you can do that and STILL TELL HIM THAT HE HELPED THE ONE ENEMY OF MIDDLE EARTH! Like if I helped a bad guy plant a dooms day device, I can feel ashamed about while still warning everyone to flee.
OR Gil-galad, how about you send more than a single messenger ya know considering it's highly important. It's only stating that the biggest threat to middle earth is walking around. You legit walking muppet of a king, how does anyone respect you?
Zero punishments for any action. Okay so Elrond goes against Gil-galad and... there is no consequences for that? If gil galad thought those rings would save middle earth and the elves and than someone just takes them... when they come back or tell you the rings are gone, you're not going to like to do anything.
Far too many contrivances - Galadriel just gets her ring because it rolled down a staircase. Rings got saved because the water blew a bubble. Btw Cirdan and Galadriel in lore were gifted the rings by Gil-Galad. He didn't drop them. Why would he ever give his version of Galadriel a ring of power?
Characters have instant tp abilities again making the world feel small... for instance Galadriel and Elrond were having a horse chase from Eregion to Lindon... they were chasing after each other the entire time which is what a journey of days? and yet somehow Elrond got a message for a squad from Lindon to intercept... How? Did he have pissing messenger pigeon shoved up his backside? Sauron also goes to Mordor... before tping back to Celebrimbor and not stopping to think, Oh maybe Galadriel told them I was Sauron... nah that thought just didn't enter his mind. His great deceiver title doesn't really hold any weight when everyone knows what he is up to.
Finally just on a sane plot level Tolkien made it clear that no-one knew Sauron was Annatar because well as you can see in ROP the entire story now makes every good character out to be complete and utter moron. Although tbf Sauron is also below 1 IQ in this story.
"Too much money, not enough sense" is how my mom used to put it.
Everyone: cast it into the fire
Amazon: No
Sauron being unable to concinve and command the Orcs is just incredibly dumb given that his whole character is about being the great deceiver and manipulator who can invade, twist, and control even the strongest of minds. He should be the most charismatic and smartest person in the room with the loyalty of the Orcs unquestioned. But no. For some reason, we gotta make Sauron likable and flawed or smth!? Oh noooo, poor Sauron get's betrayed! He just wants world peace and to look out for the Orcs! Nooooo
I’m confused as to why Orcs suddenly started clapping cheeks with each other and it somehow worked, making love for them canon wise would just be banging stones and throwing mud together with no actual offspring being produced whatsoever.
RIGHT!!!!!! I asked my husband and he claims they've been around long enough that they are their own race but........ that....... Bruh i don't even know
@@Alteorieveryone writing for this show doesn’t even know any know, so I’d say we’re all doomed here to be endlessly confused.
@@bigyoshi5170 😂😂 So are to expect that ROP is now a completely separate entity? That's where it feels like it's going
Don't confuse standard orcs with Uruk kai which are artificial half breeds made by Saruman. The bad part in this show is the notion of an orc family the reason you don't see female orcs is they are kept as brood mares in caves and pits realistically they would be raped and fed then killed when they grow weak or old, nothing more.
If I remember correctly, they fired the Lord of the Rings expert after he kept telling them the things they wrote don't work with the lore.
This is just a highschool play. You cannot convince me otherwise
i am still not convinced its not some alleged money laundering scheme.
That besmirches the standards of high school productions I've seen. This is grade school with the actors channeling Japanese Chūnibyō.
@@WhimsicalPacifist you know, I agree. I apologize to highschool students. I did not mean to insult them in such a manner.
@@WhimsicalPacifist ah yes the overpowered japanese eyepatch meme.
I'd rather sit through highschool plays again.
Jeff Bezos must be the most idiotic CEO ever for letting them do this.
@12:50
In the lore, the World also known as Arda was created by an all powerful entity known as Eru iluvatar.
He is basically God in this universe. Like the Christian God, he had angelic spirits that are known as the Ainur.
These Ainur following Eru's command sang everything about the universe and the world(Arda).
Eru then showed them visions of the world they sang about and commanded their songs to become physical and the universe and the world came to exist. But it was formless and empty.
Some of the Ainur, the most powerful among them were charged with entering into the world to fashion it as they had seen in the vision.
These Ainur that came to build the world are Called the Valar.
These Valar are just like the Greek gods.
God (Valar)of air, God (Valar)of the earth etc.
Later, other less powerful Ainur came into the world to aid the Valar in governing it. These lesser Ainur are known as Maiar and Sauron (Originally Mairon)was one of them, and he was originally pure but got corrupted by an Evil Valar named Melkor(later Morgoth)
Melkor is the most powerful of the Ainur and he is this world's version of Lucifer.
The wizards and Balrogs are also Maiar.
Sauron was the Chief commander of Melkor(Morgoth) who was the first all powerful dark Lord who was later defeated and cast out of the world by the other Valar.
Orcs were designed by Melkor to be the minions of a dark lord. They’re hardwired to be controlled by someone like Sauron. At the end of Return of the King, when Sauron was destroyed, many of the orcs simply dropped dead from the shock of the absence of his will in their minds. He doesn’t need to give speeches to control orcs. They can’t disobey. They can’t rebel against him. They certainly have no means to kill freaking Sauron or even cause him any significant damage. This show is stupid. The writers of this show are not writers.
That's the thing about the Rings of power, it's infamous for making you confused as to WHO is the main antagonist...
Alteori you're not missing anything. They wrote this show just like how you're taking it or understanding it. This is because the two guys who wrote this are trash writers and before this show they have half a writing credit for a trash Star Trek show. That's it. They are talentless and have no idea what Tolkien was saying in his books. This show is made for no one, not fans and not the general audience. They think they wrote Shakespeare but instead they wrote a terrible fan fiction.
Maybe their target audience is Leslye Headland.
he didn't really die they just killed his body, which for a mortal would be the end. I love the "He deceived me" but like then she still didn't say anything after she found out.
Sweetie... I love your videos, so PLEASE don't ever compare the absolute mind-bending STUPIDITY of the Rings of Power with the Peter Jackson LOTR movies.
If you're truly curious, there are VERY GOOD reasons why they weren't able to simply call the Eagles and get a ride to Mordor, not the least of which is that Sauron would have had them destroyed if they got even remotely close to Mordor. They only flew to pickup Frodo & Sam at the end so easily because it was a very short distance and Sauron was dead.
The only reason Frodo & Sam were able to get into Mordor is because Aragorn distracted Sauron.
There is no good and evil in Hollywood anymore. It's all subjective now. Maleficent changed everything.
Hollyweird has always been satanic
What should have happened...
Elrond: That Halbrand guy was actually Sauron. Galadriel's poor decision-making and narcissism have allowed Sauron to survive. The 3 Rings are now in jeopardy!
High King Gil Galad: Thank you, Elrond. Galadriel, you are under arrest. You will be on the next ship to the Grey Havens, where you will be placed under arrest and will never return.
(Elven Guards disarm and knock Galadriel out, tying her to the ship and sail off to the Grey Havens)
ROP's Galadriel is an angry bitter revenge seeking psycho. She would hunt down Sauron to the ends of the earth without caring for her companions, constantly fighting with her friend and powerful authorities and showing disrespect to them, and thinking she's better than everyone else. I bet even the Dark Galadriel in LOTR movie is more nicer than her.
This is why ROP's Galadriel is more commonly known as Guyladriel.
Souron has nightmares about Hobbits!!!
12:48 The Valar are angelic beings in Tolkien’s lore that serve Eru Iluvatar, the God of Arda in Tolkien’s work.
Sauron is one of the Maiar (albeit a villainous one) which are lesser than the Valar in power but still very strong.
16:23 - "I am so sick of these pink skins."
Jeffery Combs is legendary and Star Trek: Enterprise is amazing.
I read the king as follows: He is very disappointed in Galadrial and he simply wants to hear the words from her own mouth. Alteori repeats, why did Elrond not tell him, and again. But I would say it can make sense in the dialogue, just like when parents are shocked about their child's deeds, already know or suspect the truth, but then again want to hear it and see their child's reaction - to be more disappointed afterwards and see if it changes the story.
After that dialogue, the king says argghhhhh (could still fit with my interpretation), but Elrond seems to be shocked, like Alteori pointed out. So, the show writers already destroy the point I would give them. Yeah, modern writing.
Yes, Galadriel is villian and orcs are victims
Just as Tolkien intended
Turning Galadriel into a violent psychopath really looks like something done intentionally. Because she was Tolkien's favorite character. They did it on purpose. Because they hate Tolkien.
I don’t understand why so many writers nowadays insist on making every single villain sympathetic, redeemable or good-all-along. I miss good old fashioned pure evil villains. So many writers seem to believe that moral ambiguity and humanizing villains automatically make these characters more interesting, but I honestly think it can have opposite effect sometimes. RoT Sauron is boring compared to OG Sauron from the books and movie trilogy.
They identify with the villains, and see the idea of acting with moral rectitude as an impossibility rather than a target to be aimed for, so heroic ideals must be discarded (since that holds up an unpleasant mirror to their own moral turpitude) whilst the villains must be 'humanised' because by doing so they can excuse themselves for the many dismal failings within their own lives/hollywood community...
@@ssharp755 Well said. I don’t know about most people, but I honestly don’t care if characters are nothing like me (in terms of appearance, culture or otherwise). There’s a sort of narcissism to insisting on seeing a reflection of one’s self in every piece of media. Modern Hollywood writers hold heroism in contempt, while romanticizing vice. I’m sick of fantasy being ruined by their ideology.
These people have as much emotion in their Acting as a Corpse has at it's Funeral.
Respect and keep up the epic work.
Let’s all take a moment to realize that the opening of this season entirely erases the need for Sauron to even create the One Ring.
He did so so he could come back should his physical form ever be destroyed.
According to this show, he could always do that if he just ate some rats and a peasant woman.
If only Tolkien had known. 🤷🏻♀️
OK, I had to go look it up. The orcs are dark elves corrupted.
@@stewarttomkinson3356 the original orcs were. Tolkien struggled with an explanation for how they reproduced that fit with his morality (evil can't create life, but also a race of sentient beings doomed for no fault of their own doesn't work). However, that's the deep end of a philosophical pool and these writers would drown in a puddle so they should have just kept away from the question altogether.
@@tayh.6235evil can’t create life but it can corrupt it. Also they would just not be punished in the afterlife for their deeds if they are just being forced to serve evil.
Hmm. Interesting problem.
I suppose my solution would have been to create a species of…. Well, the equivalent of monkeys or proto-humans/elves/whatever that Melkor corrupted into Orcs. Perhaps a non-mammalian version that laid eggs or something to get around the reproduction angle.
But Tolkien probably have our level of evolutionary knowledge to solve the Orc problem with.
2:29, The irony of something like Legend Of Vox Machina, a series inspired by a Dungeons & Dragons livestream, a game inspired partly by Tolkien's work, managed to be a better fantasy series than Rings Of Power.
Not to say it's more faithful to Tolkien's specific vision of whimsical adventure and biblical war drama (19:18, complete with a greedy angel, but to clarify, he can't alter reality, just induce illusions with telepathy, along with some telekinetic and elemental powers, which he still could've used to defend himself or dominate his followers), but it actually cares about making a decent story with decent characters that anyone regardless of their experience with fantasy or Dungeons & Dragons can potentially get into, knowing the lore and game references just being an added bonus.
Sauron should have complete control over the orcs at this point. The orcs are just mutilated elves creates for one purpose and that’s to serve the forces of evil. Sauron didn’t make the orcs, his master Morgoth did but he has been defeated at this point so Sauron is the next guy up.
Whats crazy is how in a show called “rings of power” they get everything wrong about the “Rings of Power”. The 3 elf rings were made by Cemlibrimbor when he started to distrust Annatar (Sauron in disguise) which lead to Sauron torturing and killing him when he wouldn’t tell him any information about who wielded them.
I highly recommend reading or watching lore videos this Age in middle cause it will make your head spin with how much they really either didn’t do their homework or just didn’t care.
Also, in terms of Sauron as a character he always thought he was doing good in his eyes and didn’t view himself as evil. He was all about control, thus his obsession with the “Rings of Power” and bending all the kings of the dwarves and men to his will. This show sucks lol
Also... Galadriel is not supposed to be involved at all. 1350 Second Age: Galadriel immigrates to Lothlorien with her husband, Celeborn, and daughter, Celebrian. The forging of Rings of Power occurred 150 years later...
@@NewDawnRS2499 that is correct. Forgot about that. The timeline in this show is all over the place
You cant take the eagle and fly to the mountain lol.
The skies over Mordor are full of fellbeasts and giant bats.
Thos flying things the nazguls used in the movies. Those flying dragon fish things.
They would destroy any eagle. Its why they were bred, Sauron didnt want eagles to spy on him.
Galadriel getting ring was like "ooh shiny"
Rings of power has nothing to do with Lord of the Rings lore. They took designs from the movies, 5 lines of the story from the books and also names of characters and locations and made this fan fiction.
1:22:56 What the hell...? Are the writers serious?! They have a Native American-looking guy who looks like he's not even wearing a costume!
I loved the casting approach Peter Jackson took for the trilogy. All the elves were models--tall, slender. They all of them looked ethereal. Which created the on-set joke from the makeup and wardrobe dept: "They're the most beautiful people we've ever seen. We're sick of looking at them. lol"
Given their fancy attire, I'd say they're noble people, not elves. Or cosplayers.
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Shhhhhh we're not supposed to say anything
Yes, Orcs are essentially a weapon, who’s only desire is to destroy and serve their dark lords.
Even if they wanted to defy Sauron and/or Morgoth(the previous manager), these being are powerful, godlike even. Even Sauron’s voice is capable of making Saruman The White tremble like fish bait’s day 1 in Prison. I’m sure he has a list of more feats from the novels that will never be addressed in this horrendous show.
Your comment about if he is ever even dead, is actually relevant to the end of Lord of the rings, lol. Even after the destruction of the ring, he wasn’t actually dead, he was just an incredibly weak and formless spirit that could do nothing but whisper or something like that. I figured if that was a direct action of the loss of his ring since he put so much of his power in it, or if the Valar also had some hand in his punishment.
Regardless, you were on point in that he would be incredibly difficult to kill, and pretty much impossible by the hand of any mortal man. You would probably need someone like the Valar, Eru Ilúvatar (who could easily destroy him), or a creature like Ungoliant who came from the primordial void, and was even a danger to Morgoth at one point.
Bro, ain't no way you are on the "they could've taken the eagles" wagon
Not saying this like I’m shocked you’re a girl… but you have really funny, in depth takes on this show. You don’t let anything slide! Love it
I appreciate that. I'm just being myself LOL. I know it turns some people off but I wanna have fun and mostly be honest with my thoughts. Thanks for stopping by 😅
46:58 Holy sh*t this had me rolling! Wtf is that?
edit: Alteori's squeaky laughing is adorkable.
Imagine galadriel's daughter marrying elrond.
Yeah, that would be silly. 😏
4:52 I WAS NOT READY THAT NEEDS A TRIGGER WARNING
The confused "I liked it?" is absolutely hilarious and something this woman would say. I love this channel
Thank you for the updates, I still have a morbid curiosity for learning how badly theyre butchering this show. I watched up to S1E3 and was done 🥲 I love Tolkien too much, it would break my heart to see this dumpster fire any closer.
Bruh, what in god name was that epic rant about the mouse at 1:13:00? That was the most unhinged shit I have heard in a while...
Lord of ring franchise rest in peace 1937-2024.
Lord of the Rings survived very weird and awkward cartoon movies in the 70s, it will survive this too.
You're correct about the orcs and DOUBLY so for Sauron. The orcs need a master to serve to give them purpose because they were SPECIFICALLY created to be weapons and Sauron being the dark lord, his power alone would be enough to bend them to his will. He wouldn't have to say a single word to persuade them. He would simply command them and they'd do his bidding.
The Valar are basically demigods in the lore, and Sauron's master Morgoth (Melkor?) used to be one of them
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made”
"You know when people are high off their rockers....I wouldn't know....". Are sure about that!?!😮
All Sauron had to do is flex on the orcs like he did on Celebrimbor and BOOM - orc army acquired
If you want more information on lore from Lord of the Rings I would recommend Nerd of the Rings. He does really good lore video about characters and events that take place in Tolkien's world. And from his episode breakdowns about season 2 of Rings of Power, he is not a fan of it. He has a open mind and try to find good things about it, but has a lot of things to say.
I think I came across his videos and saved it in my watchlist
The Valar are like the Demigod rulers of Arda (the planet which Middle Earth exists on). They are the most powerful of the Myar (like angels with shapeshifting powers, the wizards, sauron and the balrogs are all Myar) created and appointed to rule by Illuvitar (literally god, no I mean it, the Christian God himself).
Also, if this was Sauron from the books, he would have shapeshifted into something that could devastate the entire room. Hell, the entire castle
13:00 I feel like Wizards of the Coast signed some sort of deal with them to put that innocent orcs thing in lol