Modern Horizons 3 Turns Modern Upside Down | MTGGoldfish Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- The crew discusses the huge shakeup Modern Horizons 3 has caused in Modern (and also Timeless and even a little Legacy).
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The hole mtggoldfish brand is by far the best magic content on youtube. Real and truth. You are not doing it all for the money. You guys really love the game and we can feel it. Keep up the good work. Most other channels are just money grinding and corrupted by wotc.
Thanks :)
"most other channel"
You are either have shitty taste with MTG channels or a bootlicker
Btw Nadu is terrible in paper too because as a nondeterministic combo it cannot be shortcutted, so its likely gonna end up being a lot like eggs
Targeting, revealing and putting lands into play is extremely fast though. "I have 5 creatures, I can move Shuko onto them for 10 triggers. Put lands into play, trigger my Nantuko X times make X creatures. Do it again." It's way way faster
incumbent on the player to know their lines to not get hit with slow play
I take it you never played when eggs was a deck. This is nothing like eggs.
@@DylanHunter64 but you don't get just lands, you have to see every card you get and think if that changes what you wanna do next. It still seems like the Nadu player can sit there for 10 minutes trying to go off.
@@Hfsm33 Really, once you've established what you can do, and the opponent doesn't interact, it's pretty easy to expedite the actual processes that MTGO makes such a pain.
As an additional note for Psychic Frog: it pitches to Force of Will, which is the biggest thing.
Same with the black March from kamigawa
And grief.
The most powerful ability of a legacy card, being blue to pitch to Force.
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast He gets it
i will add my voice to the "richard's wrong" crowd today - 3% on that 17lands data is HUGE, if not just straight up unprecedented. the chart on screen further proves this since it shows that #2-6 are all within 1% of each other!!
^^^ 66.5% is like rare bomb power level
Yeah, I have no idea how that claim stood. 3 % more is insane. Of course, the data is early, which might skew it, but otherwise it's without a doubt just op
I distinctly remember Richard said every card in mh3 sucked
He still thinks goyf sucks when it's been in tier 2 decks for awhile now. It's just not the best thing
@@Sup4ast4rTo be fair, he now says it's tier 6 lol
I want to hear all the walk backs lol
Nah, he always loved urza's cave
It's hard to believe if a format was as degenerate as as timeless is atm that the Goldfish gang wouldn't be calling it such.
No idea what Richard is talking about, the Miku Secret Lair sold out in like less then 3 hours 😂😂😂
None of these guys do research before they make a video. Can’t be surprised that their takes are all opinions and not backed up by any research
@stevendefeo8424 yep he clearly didn't watch the profs video either.
I thought it sold out almost instantly, but then I thought maybe Richard was talking about the second one that the just announced.
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast the one that hasn’t even released yet? 😂
It didn’t sell out in 3 hours. Maybe the foil edition ones, but the non foils didn’t sell out. I bought the non foils the next day.
Regarding Wheel of potential, I recommend you watch JudgingFTW video. The issue isn't that it's undefined X, but that it says May pay X. You can choose X=50 and then not to pay it since you don't have 50 energy. And then the second paragraph doesn't care whether you paid the 50 energy or not so you can just draw the 50 cards since it's the same X.
I love listening to this podcast every week
Thanks!
I don’t know what Richard is talking about the Miku sold out day one, the bundles sold out first but later in the day the individual Miku lairs sold out. I was checking back on it on the day seeing how long it would take to sell out.
Yeah, the Miku SL sold out the first day. The Miku SL had an English version and a Japanese version and I believe the English one sold out in the morning, which caused the bundles to be disabled. Then thr Japanese one sold out in the afternoon. Or vice versa. Or maybe it was foil vs non-foil. But yeah, no one could get ahold of Miku after day 1.
This! Miku sold out immediately. It was the first one to go. The english one went first, followed by the Japanese. All other Secret Lairs hung around for a while. Miku selling out meant many of the bundles were "turned off" because they were included in them. Richard is just 100% misremembering this and is sorely mistaken if he thinks it's not about to happen again. I'll be SHOCKED if Miku isn't just gone in hours again.
@@enoesiw You have it correct the first time. The english version was gone in mere hours. The Japanese version was gone that afternoon/evening. Richard is misremembering this entire situation.
To clarify the problem with Wheel of Potential, the issue is that it says "you may pay X energy", but then the later ability doesn't check to see if you actually did pay it. Since nothing sets X and it isn't a mana cost, alternate cost, additional cost or activation cost, you can have X be whatever you want and then decide not to pay it and get the effect anyways.
107.3f: Sometimes X appears in the text of a spell or ability but not in a mana cost, alternative cost, additional cost, or activation cost. If the value of X isn't defined, the controller of the spell or ability chooses the value of X at the appropriate time (either as it's put on the stack or as it resolves).
Compare that to something like Rise of the Hodgoblins or Incinerator of the Guilty which both also say you "may" pay something, but use "if you do" or "when you do" to ensure that the rest of the effect only happens if you actually pay the cost.
No. When abilities check like that, it's because something could have changed before the spell resolved. For example, you sacrifice a creature, and only get the effect off if it died this way. That's to make cards weak to Rest In Peace. Or the opponent could doomblade the creature in response if it wasn't sacrificed as a cost. You can't just change your mind and not pay the costs.
@@josephwodarczyk977 paying 3 energy is not an additional cost of the spell. If it was, it would say "as an additional cost". They specifically didn't format it that way since you would be unable to use the 3 energy it gives you on resolution.
Note that it says "you MAY pay X energy". May denotes that it is giving you a choice on whether or not to pay. You can choose not to pay the cost, it's just that for most other cards worded like that, they check to make sure you did pay it before giving any benefit. By contrast, the card Greenbelt Rampager DOES NOT use may, so you are forced to pay the cost if you are able.
As for how X is defined, look at the rule I quoted in my original comment. This X is not in the mana cost (like for the card Blaze), an additional cost (like for Hatred), an alternate cost (like for Avacyn's Judgement) or an activation cost (like on Polukranos, World Eater). It also doesn't say what X is (like Eternity Vessel). Therefore you choose whatever value of X you want as it resolves.
@@seandun7083 you choose what X is as you pay it.
@@josephwodarczyk977 that's only for mana, additional, alternative and activation costs
107.3a: If a spell or activated ability has a mana cost, alternative cost, additional cost, and/or activation cost with an {X}, [-X], or X in it, and the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell or ability, the controller of that spell or ability chooses and announces the value of X as part of casting the spell or activating the ability. (See rule 601, "Casting Spells.") While a spell is on the stack, any X in its mana cost or in any alternative cost or additional cost it has equals the announced value. While an activated ability is on the stack, any X in its activation cost equals the announced value.
Or for special actions
107.3d: If a cost associated with a special action, such as a suspend cost or a morph cost, has an {X} or an X in it, the value of X is chosen by the player taking the special action immediately before they pay that cost.
Since this is none of those, we use the following rule.
107.3f: Sometimes X appears in the text of a spell or ability but not in a mana cost, alternative cost, additional cost, or activation cost. If the value of X isn't defined, the controller of the spell or ability chooses the value of X at the appropriate time (either as it's put on the stack or as it resolves).
Note that the 2 options are either as it's put on the stack or as it resolves.
@@josephwodarczyk977 Dave from the channel 'Judging FtW' goes over the issues with the card. video 'DDR#780 - What is the most broken card in MH3?'
Richard be getting confused Miku SL bundles and English both sold out within a hour, the Jp one however yeah was slower but did after a bit.
Not a wolf is the twitter alt for Dan Sheehan, of CommanderSphere & Piebreak, two mtg podcasts. He has a published graphic novel based on not a wolf and has written mtg story before.
Sounds random, but not much more random that your average secret lair drop.
I honestly wish my budget was up to getting the Not a wolf secret lair. I may not be deep into following the account, but the Secret Lair is cool and tempting for the tie-in.
My experience with Nadu has been limited to Brawl, where it is very common and fairly oppressive. Not only power wise, but the turn length is painful. I imagine it will be a nightmare in commander as well for similar reasons.
Yeah, it's really strong and I think just plain bad design. It might get banned on Arena for either reason.
I just auto-concede to Nadu. Not because it's unbeatable (countermagic works) but because I have better things to do than sit there and watch them go off for 15 minutes.
Isn't Yu-gi-oh's prize structure way worse than Magic's?
Oh yes, significantly worse
Yugioh basically doesn't have real prizes. Like winning the most premier tournaments earns you video game console worth a few hundred bucks and a useless card. Crim's talking about how top 16ing a GP got him 3k and that's more than you win for winning a Yugioh's biggest tourneys, the YCSes.
100000% Worse
That writhing chrysalis card is absurd. It dodges most of the removal. If I didn’t remove it immediately, I lost.
MH3 is feeling SNC imbalance level
I didn't think about the way Play Boosters would change draft, but after hearing it I can definitely see. I've played a lot of limited recently and I've often had to lean on a third color to make a curve work. The fixing is good enough for it, but it is definitely a change.
When talking about the effect of the Chrysalis on limited, you have to remember that it is a common. You see it all the time. Also, if it wins about 2/3 of the time, because it is so ubiquitous, how many of those 1/3 times it's actually because there are Chrysali on the other side as well?
Turns out guide of souls is a white delver
I mean, Warden of the Inner Sky has been decent and it requires a lot more setup. This shouldn't be surprising anyone
@@sosukeleleexcept it did
So much better than delver lol. It turns ALL your small creatures into DRCs.
I think of it has the white Ragavan.
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast I was watching LMS Prague and The Will Hall was talking about how Orzhov scam was missing a good one drop. Maybe this is it.
Who'd've thought Richard would be wrong again. The Miku drop sold out within a few hours
Isn't that a slow sell out for SL though? Like isn't it selling out within moments pretty common.
@@TheEvolver311no, they have been print to demand for nearly the whole time so they never sold out, the first few sold out because they were limited and new, now people don't care anymore and they only print 1,000 and even then some still don't sell out. So selling out in 3 hours is still really good when demand is so low for the rest of them.
@atk9989 yeah I'm talking about when they haven't been like when they first premiered and now that they have reverted back to a limited printing. Obviously when it was print on demand this wasn't an issue how is that even worth mentioning
@atk9989 you seem committed to making your response unintelligible
@@TheEvolver311 no, selling out within moments is not common for Secret Lairs. Most drops remain on sale for weeks. You may be thinking of the “Mythic Editions” they did years ago; those did sell out in minutes.
"Everything is so non-interactive... you're just firing removal" is the most confusing phrase I've ever heard
I think he means that there isn't many decisions within the game
Hoping Crim does some Stifling fetches in timeless again.
I think Psychic Frog has felt weaker in modern because it's so much more creature centric midrange as a format. Which means both many blockers and many answers for creatures run around. Legacy feels a lot more combo/stax, Frog pitches to force, if you can succesfully disrupt the opponents it is good as it provides card advantage in a board stall, but it also enables your combo (if you want to put reanimate in that bucket) and can act as a finisher if you grow it a little.
I think how Wheel of Potential works - or rather, how it isn't supposed to work - is that you decide what X is in the first part, and that value does apply to the second part too, but then it's just 'may' pay X energy. You don't have to pay the energy, and that does not prevent you and all other players from having the choice to exile your hand and draw X cards.
That is not strictly intuitive - far more intuitive to read it that if no energy is paid, X = 0, as intended - and I think they're right to just say "don't play the card the wrong way" in the interim. And I think all they have to do to fix it is remove the 'may' from the paying energy part. You can still choose X = 0 if you want energy and no cards. (I could well be wrong on that, though, Magic rules being what they are)
I never thought I'd see the day where mono red has the tools to be the most efficient card advantage deck in modern... The funniest part is that the cards are in exile, so you can't scam to remove them.
Ohhhhhh I was like 99% sure the secret lair was themed around "moderm life Innistrad where the packs of werewolves are also office workers". I didnt had an idea of who "not a wolf" is.
I think it's less fun because good combo decks are less fun to play against and those are the best decks at the moment. Scam wasn't fun to play against or watch.
Nadu and Ruby storm are fun to watch at least at the moment
On the play booster topic: They have certainly made limited as a whole (both draft and sealed) less enjoyable for the reasons discussed in the video and because (mainly in sealed) I have found that it has become harder to build competitive decks if you open a weaker pool that isn't driven by some high rarity card. It used to be that in most sets you could scrounge together some sort of low to the ground aggro list if you didn't open bombs. However, I have been noticing that since MKM that strategy is harder to execute. Additionally, I have noticed that sealed decks have become less focused and people are starting to reach into 3 or even 4 colors. Less focused card pools could be a side effect of fewer cards in the packs.
I love limited as a format as a whole, and I think draft is still in alright shape, though that could just be being propped up by the awesomeness that is OTJ, but sealed has taken a serious hit with the switch to play boosters in my opinion. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues with Bloomburrow and following sets.
Also, regarding the Prize wall, if you care for draft, its actually worth it (albeit not by much). Draft token is 1500 gems, 8 packs you can get is 1600 gems, so thats already 3100 gems worth of stuff, whilst the access is 2800. So you save 300 gems and everything else is basically "free"
Richard the Hatsune Miku secret lairs sold out within 3 hours, for all languages in both foil and nonfoil.
I'm surprised phyrexian tower isn't popping up everywhere honestly
I see phyrexian tower in a fair number of decks. Theres a warren soultrader combo deck going around that uses it.
It's showing up in quite a few decks (Yawg, Scam, Scale, etc), but so far it hasn't really created any new archetypes, instead it's mostly just going into old ones.
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast Good to know!. It's play patterns with grief are disgusting
@@samogburn2662 It turns Greedy Freebooter into Dark Ritual 💀
Finkel, Kai, LSV, and Nassif are all on the invite list. Also my personal fave Reid Duke too.
That felt like the best episode. Hearing about Modern and tournament scenes is great. It's what I have been missing, in general.
In case for Nadu, we have an artifact coming out in Assassin's Creed called Smoke Bomb.... all creatures gain shroud
Man. You guys gotta start playing vintage cube. Legitimately feeling like the best format.
put tarmogoyf in standard, itll be fine!
I'm inclined to agree, so long as Push is in the same set. I'd love to see Goyf in Pioneer.
I agree honestly
I'm not sure it would even be all that good without fetches or hand attack.
@@seandun7083 that's the point. It will be strong but not broken.
No fetchlands so it would be a 3/4 most of the time. Barely playable haha. Ok it would be good but would require building around it more than in modern. In modern you just play normally and it grows without you noticing. In standard you'd need to self mill a bit / actually play delirium.
In pauper, Writhing Chrysalis has also been making a splash in the RG ponza deck.
Richard's description of Modern sounds like Standard.
The participation prizes are seriously an issue even on a casual level, especially in Europe. If I draft at my LGS I get a promo card which is usually worth less than $0.50 and is not playable in any formats.
They could at least hand out fancy looking basic lands, those could at least be used even if they have no monetary value.
Seth forgot the most important part of rescaminator: access to force of will, infinitely better than subtlety. That in addition to reanimate able to get back troll, is the reason its not a modern staple
22:30 Richard is on the same cope i used to be on. When you get to a certain point with card games you just know what the best play possible is every turn but you still lose even though you did everything you could to win. But that’s the beauty of card games due to variants any player has a chance to win.
At the pre-release event I went to things were so inconsistent that while three people finished the match undefeated, The rest of us had inconsistent decks that couldn't finish three rounds in the time allotted
Two nights it was "who can pull the most impressive eldrazi and sweep the matches" it was fucking horrible and not fun
Thank you for not uploading at 6 am. Now I can go to sleep at 5 am like I’m supposed to. 😊
I don't know much about Not a Wolf but I recognize the name of the guy behind. Dan Sheenan ran Commander Sphere with Rachel Weeks, who now is part of The Command Zone. It was my 2nd favorite MTG podcast (behind you guys of course), hilarious, and I would highly recommend it. Dan also wrote the Squee story for Dominaria United if I remember correctly.
I'm excited that my Pauper Simic Dreadmaw deck gets Colossal Dreadmask.
*Thanks for the Content!*
The whole immersion breking argument from Richard ran circles around itself. "This one game did it and I couldn't believe it, but when Magic did it thats okay I understand they have to sell packs"..... we've gone past the "This is just a person and its ruining my immersion" point in MTG. The time to rail against it was years ago
I just cannot envision Nadu getting banned in the near future unless it's a situation similar to Yorion where WotC takes umbrage with how long it takes for the deck to actually won the game.
Like it or not, Modern has been irreversibly accelerated by the induction of Horizons sets. There are a litany of ways to lose the game T3 if you lack meaningful interaction and WotC has yet to take any meaningful action against these lines, implying they don't mind having it in the format.
55:44 It's call gambling Richard, no, Guys. It has existed since FOREVER. wizards just put IT a new make up and Gacha continue to make it more prettier.
Do not Worry Wizards/Hasbro and many other are Lobbying very hard so that kids can still legally gamble.
I mean, in some sense aren't booster packs legal gambling?
The miku secret layer sold out in an hour, it was everything else that did not move.
Crim owns as always, that bit at the end about prizes is so spot on. Every other game give so much more and better rewards simply for attending.
Not Yugioh, lol. Mtg prize support blows Yugioh out of the water.
I think another key thing to mention about ring storm is ral is both an enabler and a payoff which is very strong
Whenever the crew goes “man this is too silly/immersion breaking” I realize just how different their sense of humor is from mine
Miku literally sold out first lol
In Timeless, Scam decks police the "unfair" Reanimate and Show and Tell, like how it interacts in Legacy. In Modern, Scam is an issue because there aren't any turn one/two "unfair" big things decks
Yeah, when there's something more degenerate to police Scam can actually be the good guy, apparently, but in a fairer format it's oppressive.
56:10 bruh, you DO get packs!!! Only 8, but that’s still a lotta packs!
It's a shame Nadu will likely be hit at some point. I'm having fun brewing a mid-range deck with Feather
"Our Prize Structure Is the Worst!" Crim apparently has no idea what is going on in Yugioh.
Of course the goldfish crew wouldn’t know that “not a wolf” is one of the short story authors.
The Psychic Frog hideaway thing sucks because it plays on people feeling like they are missing out or losing something. After you play a match you get "tickets" that you then have to pay to use. Like don't give me the tickets i'm not participating
Tarmogoyf needs to just be reprinted into standard so it can be in pioneer.
It’s absolutely true that sealed is now lacking cohesion due to not enough meat and potatoes. I have had to splash a third color in literally every sealed pool I’ve had.
Ulamog is strong in historic as it combos with indomitable creativity becoming a 17/17. I am having a blast in mythic playing this deck using Ulamog + bitter reunion instead of the usual combo. It even wins against enchantress decks.
I’m a completely free to play player (except for the $5 welcome bundle I bought 2 years ago,) and I’ve saved up 12,000 gems from all my drafting. So yeah, I’ll probably buy the MH3 Hideaway. Gonna buy it after I’ve earned tickets, tho
Thank god for pioneer. Don't have to worry about forced rotation and degeneracy. The only pure format.
No, the OG gatcha game was baseball cards. What was the game you might ask? Throwing them at eachother.
The perfect solution versus storm ? Drannith magistrate!
I remember seeing muki was sold out with in an hour all versions not just the bundle maybe it was the uk store only
Well now I feel bad about being down in Phalge. Nice to hear it’s being successful
I want a MTG goldfish secret lair, and i want it right now
you should try the new ulamog with either creation of avacyn, ulamog enters as a 17/17 annihilator 10 or, nexus of becoming make a 13/13 ulamog with annihilator 10
But that does take a few turns to do anything and if they kill it partway through then you took 10 for nothing...
Nexus is better, but still 6 mana (which could be okay in some big mana colorless deck, but still not sure if it's better than other options).
I played some mh3 sealed, and it was pretty hard to have a coherent 2-color deck, but I also rarely had enough creatures to play 2 colors ha.. maybe was unlucky but I felt a distinct lack of creatures
I like phyrexian tower and shifting woodland in Yawg and those have been good for the deck but nothing revolutionary. I've only recently completed my Yawg deck and I've been sweating this release in hopes that it didn't delete the deck somehow haha. People have been saying Flare of Cultivation is the truth in Yawg but I'm really just not seeing it in playtests. It's a dead draw too often.
Hearing them talk about Writhing Chrysalis and then being in limited circles is hilarious. They’re like “ohhh it can’t be thattty bad.”
It’s so much harder for MtG to redo its prize structure to match Lorcana/One Piece now, because MtG can’t print special versions of cards for tournaments anymore… they’ve diluted the variant market to much now I believe
Dumb Question: Richard says combo keeps out midrange decks in check. But arent midrange decks like 4c elementals and scam like the best decks to face storm? Scam cuz scam, but 4c midrange plays removal that hits both ral and the ruby medallion like leyline binding. Or is the storm deck strong enough to go off even after the cost reduction effect is gone?
Normally aggro decks are the best decks to face combo because they kill them before the combo starts.
Still waiting for that Richard Goyf video!! DO IT RICHARD WE DON'T CARE IF YOU LOSE
You are wrong about the Miku Secret Lair. Miku sold out within a few hours, which made the bundles unavailable.
Not A Wolf Secret Lair is there because the author of the book "I am not a Wolf", and the owner of the sickofwolves twitter account kind of works for wotc contributing flavor text. Dan Sheehan, the author is also a magic content creator, guy used to have a podcast with Rachel Weeks before she went to CZ. I think he still has a podcast about the color pie now...
I had to do 4 colored in my sealed prerelease
For that prize wall dilemma: They just should have given these things out for just playing and earning tickets, but with a exchange increase if you are a free player. In that case you still can get everything just a tad slower.
Yeah, missing the "free" track that normally comes with the mastery pass is a bummer.
I will agree that timeless scam is preferable to me as opposed to show and tell. I hate show and tell.
I suspect the Hideaway is just because they couldn't figure out how to run two different mastery tracks at the same time. I don't mind it this time. If it becomes a 'every set' thing then, yeah, not worth it.
I love my tokens deck with the new modern editions
Idea to counter storm ral. Highnoon. from outlaw
3% is a big jump when your talking looking at the averages like that. Especippally when the previous peak has like 5 Cards within a single parentage point then having a bigger drop off
The "Proper" format is Draft limited.
Sealed was trash for me. Everyone had good decks but all my card were so split I had to go five color. Five color is supported tho the common fetch lands but man I didnt even have get 2 two drop creatures to rub together to keep me warm at night
Just wait till you guys see my turn one emrakul deck
44:45 my prerelease pack was so incoherent, i had to build a 4 color pile of whatever. had no good bombs, 3 of my rares were fetch lands that obviously only grabbed 1 type of land. (fetch lands nice for value and collection, but trash as a sealed environment). surprisingly mana was mostly smooth, but the deck just sucked.
At my pre release there were two decks. Green black (red) eldrazi and white blue (red) energy.
It does seem like mh3 does have many strong archetypes, so you end up with pretty random decks.
secret lair : nobodies!
Dang i didnt think everybody else would believe in Phlage like i did. Should have bought him last weel when he was half the price i guess. I figured he would go down, not up.
Ah yes
Im gonna watch a podcast about a format i have never and never will play
Prize support is so bad I placed top 8 at a Regional Championship a few years ago with 500ish players and won 200$ lol Like what the actual fuck. I never went to a big event again.
Prices going insane :( - who can affort that without beeing a mob boss or drug dealer?
Nadu in paper is terrible to play against, maybe online it will just time players out but in paper you opponent takes 50 game actions while you sit and watch with nothing to do. It's not as easy to hate out as you might think. I think it's over the edge and likely ban worthy.
I found it easiest in paper
Grief seems really bad in timeless, I think i'm like 20-0 vs grief scam by just playing Lurrus
Timeless is stronger than modern so I can see it being not as good but it’s also pretty good in legacy so maybe people just haven’t found the right shell
If beanstalk gets banned for drawing cards, nadu gets banned for reveling them.
Bro I been running 7-8 goyfs of both TGoyf and NGoyf. Feel like you guys just haven’t been doing well with your brews
Crim - "this is a gatcha"
- always has been meme
Richard misjudging a card... shocking
I knew Phlagw was underrated